Re: Let's approach stored procedures
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Arnulf Kristiansen wrote: | I have just started to look into the stored procedure issue. We will come up with a | definite plan within a short period of time. But does this mean that you won't welcome any other initiative or ideas from other programmers? | | It is true that there are solutions that would make transitions from another DBMS to |MySQL | easier however, I am leaning towards the ANSI standard rather than PL/SQL or |Transact-SQL. | If we still need to provide other languages or subsets of languages for |compatibility and | easy transition, we might provide this later. Again, if two persons (groups) were working on this at the same time, then you could take ideas from both, ditch one of the implementations and use the other one's ideas in the remaining. Much faster development, and will problaby be better. | Widening the existing SQL functionality is most likely going to be the | first step. Why is this a first step? As I see it, SQL (as in the query language) is a rather different thing than an scripting language or similar (read stored procedures). -- Mvh, Endre. - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
newbie DB developer question Are stored procedures scripts or compiled code ? James - Original Message - From: Endre Stølsvik [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Arnulf Kristiansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 5:09 PM Subject: Re: Let's approach stored procedures On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Arnulf Kristiansen wrote: | I have just started to look into the stored procedure issue. We will come up with a | definite plan within a short period of time. But does this mean that you won't welcome any other initiative or ideas from other programmers? | | It is true that there are solutions that would make transitions from another DBMS to MySQL | easier however, I am leaning towards the ANSI standard rather than PL/SQL or Transact-SQL. | If we still need to provide other languages or subsets of languages for compatibility and | easy transition, we might provide this later. Again, if two persons (groups) were working on this at the same time, then you could take ideas from both, ditch one of the implementations and use the other one's ideas in the remaining. Much faster development, and will problaby be better. | Widening the existing SQL functionality is most likely going to be the | first step. Why is this a first step? As I see it, SQL (as in the query language) is a rather different thing than an scripting language or similar (read stored procedures). -- Mvh, Endre. - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
Endre Stølsvik wrote: On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Arnulf Kristiansen wrote: | I have just started to look into the stored procedure issue. We will come up with a | definite plan within a short period of time. But does this mean that you won't welcome any other initiative or ideas from other programmers? Absolutely not. All ideas and initiatives are welcome. I will however try to coordinate efforts as best i can. | | It is true that there are solutions that would make transitions from another DBMS to MySQL | easier however, I am leaning towards the ANSI standard rather than PL/SQL or Transact-SQL. | If we still need to provide other languages or subsets of languages for compatibility and | easy transition, we might provide this later. Again, if two persons (groups) were working on this at the same time, then you could take ideas from both, ditch one of the implementations and use the other one's ideas in the remaining. Much faster development, and will problaby be better. I don't disagree. Which ever way we go I think we will end up with quite a few additions to make it easier on people with one preference or another and to facilitate transitions to MySQL. A lot of fundamental stuff is going to be common to the different variants and I like to concentrate on something rather small for starters, keeping the larger objective in mind. | Widening the existing SQL functionality is most likely going to be the | first step. Why is this a first step? As I see it, SQL (as in the query language) is a rather different thing than an scripting language or similar (read stored procedures). This can be done relatively fast, but I agree it will is not the same thing. /Arnulf - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
James Clifford wrote: newbie DB developer question Are stored procedures scripts or compiled code ? James It can be either. Compiled code generally offers greater performance while something that has to be accepted by an interpreter will be more robust, provided the interpreter is solid. When it comes to compiled code you can either have a built in compiler or you can compile you code yourself and present the executable to the server one way or another (like UDF's). /Arnulf - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
I have just started to look into the stored procedure issue. We will come up with a definite plan within a short period of time. It is true that there are solutions that would make transitions from another DBMS to MySQL easier however, I am leaning towards the ANSI standard rather than PL/SQL or Transact-SQL. If we still need to provide other languages or subsets of languages for compatibility and easy transition, we might provide this later. Widening the existing SQL functionality is most likely going to be the first step. This will go a long way to provide the capabilities needed in most cases. In some cases it would be nice to be able to use a real programming language external to the server. We will address this as well. /Arnulf - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 10:23:10AM +0200, Endre Stølsvik wrote: The proprietary issues might of course be a huge problem. Anyone knows anything about this? Well, the PostreSQL folks managed to implement a stored procedure language that looks, feels, and acts remarkably like Oracle's. So it's probably not that big a deal... Jeremy -- Jeremy D. Zawodny, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technical Yahoo - Yahoo Finance Desk: (408) 349-7878 Fax: (408) 349-5454 Cell: (408) 685-5936 MySQL 3.23.41-max: up 5 days, processed 109,565,020 queries (246/sec. avg) - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
At 09:40 AM 9/11/01 +0200, Arnulf Kristiansen wrote: I have just started to look into the stored procedure issue. We will come up with a definite plan within a short period of time. It is true that there are solutions that would make transitions from another DBMS to MySQL easier however, I am leaning towards the ANSI standard rather than PL/SQL or Transact-SQL. Are the ANSI standard online somewhere ? I would be glad to read them too :) -- Claudio Cicali aka FleXer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.flexer.it GPG Key Fingerprint = 2E12 64D5 E5F5 2883 0472 4CFF 3682 E786 555D 25CE - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
Adams, Bill TQO wrote: The other thing about all of this is that MySQL is feature rich so most people might not have a use for stored procedures. Unlike, say, Informix which has not build in MIN or MAX function. Depending on the way you define things, MIN and MAX are essentially stored procedures that were programmed into MySQL. Why not let us make our own? Frank. - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Robert Alexander wrote: | Hi Claudio, | | I think having the functionality of stored procedures would be a | wonderful addition to MySQL. Let me be the first to say a hearty | 'Thank you!' for your very generous offer to devote your vacation time | to this task. I definately agree, and I'm reading all those other emails wondering whether people are crazy?! This guy is saying that he wants to devote considerable time in making stored procedures, and people start to argue against him with sarcasm and everyhting. | | I like Oracle's PL/SQL. I've used it a fair amount, and it get's the | job done. PL/SQL = Procedural SQL -- SQL plus procedural logic. This | has the advantage of being a language that uses the SQL that we all | already know and love, plus enough procedural things -- loops, | conditionals, etc. -- to implement logic. It's more a programming | language than just a query language. This is a good thing. One LARGE point in PL is that, yes, it's Oracle's, and they have a large industy momentum and are kind of the defacto industry standard. MySQL could steal a lot of momentum from Oracle if you could port your application to MySQL by just swapping the backend of your application. And this is definately not negative for a Open Source project. (I'd like to see MySQL be a _real_ alternative to the big-dudes. Let the OS community dominate the whole serverside market totally!) Oracle's PL/SQL would be a _huge_ benefit for MySQL, I believe. Transactions, subqueries and stored procudures NOW! | | That being said, I don't think re-implementing PL/SQL is necessarily | the way to go for MySQL. There may indeed be proprietary issues | (though I'm not sure) and I think it'd be possible to take a more | 'open source' approach. The proprietary issues might of course be a huge problem. Anyone knows anything about this? | | Let's remember what we want to accomplish with stored procs; that is, | the ability to store server-side logic where we can implement such | things as business rules, and ensure consistency in the way | 'front-ends' of whatever flavour (and probably written by different | programmers) perform transactions with the dataset. Also, remember that _speed_ is a _big_ thing here. If your application needs to grep through a large amount of data and compare lots of rows from different tables in an elaborate way, then you'd have to transfer immense amounts of data through the TCP stack (and maybe even though a couple of ethernet cards and a cable!) or anyways between different tiers and data representations in your system (think e.g. Java?). This is done _much_ more effeciently with a couple of stored procedures. -- Mvh, Endre - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
Depending on the way you define things, MIN and MAX are essentially stored procedures that were programmed into MySQL. Why not let us make our own? This is already possible with Aggregate UDF 's. Check the manual here: http://www.mysql.com/doc/A/d/Adding_functions.html dpk - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Let's approach stored procedures
I think this is a little OT here, so after reading please indicate me where to talk about this subject. I'm a skilled programmer in C, C++ and others progr. lang. I have also a solid background in SQL and some RDMS (DB2, Oracle, SQLServer, and of course, Mysql). I'm going to attend a long period of holidays (finally) so, I thought: why don't try to implement stored procedures in mysql ? Now, on with the questions: I think that MySQL programmers had yet thinked on some way to implement sp, and I'd wish that someone say me: - No, dude it's impossible/too hard - No, dude, we are in the way to finish that by ourselves - No, dude, we never insert big patches in our official distribution branch, that does not belong to us Or, better, something more optimistic... I don't want to loose my time, in something that you know is impossible or too hard to get. Another question: At a first glance, I think Oracle PL/SQL is the best (afaik) programming language for sp, but, in the case we implement that language, should we go against some Oracle copytight infringment ? That's all, for now. database, mysql - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
Claudio Cicali wrote: I'm going to attend a long period of holidays (finally) so, I thought: why don't try to implement stored procedures in mysql ? Someone did it with perl. http://software.tangent.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/23/0817244mode=threadthreshold= At a first glance, I think Oracle PL/SQL is the best (afaik) programming language for sp, but, in the case we implement sarcasm You should implement it in Python so the Perl vs. Python flame wars can rage from within MySQL too. /sarcasm --Bill - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
Claudio Cicali ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: At a first glance, I think Oracle PL/SQL is the best (afaik) programming language for sp, but, in the case we implement that language, should we go against some Oracle copytight infringment ? Why would you want to do such a thing? Isn't SQL good enough? I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning here, besides the same argument used by the XML crowd of it's the latest/greatest do-all-be-all-end-all, so everyone should be using it type of nonsense. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 214/341-4420 - http://www.pobox.com/~erc Squished Mosquito, Inc. Internet Applications Development Escapade Server-Side Scripting Language Development Team http://www.squishedmosquito.com Pensacola - Dallas - Dresden - London - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
At 10.44 07/09/2001 -0500, Ed Carp wrote: Claudio Cicali ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: At a first glance, I think Oracle PL/SQL is the best (afaik) programming language for sp, but, in the case we implement that language, should we go against some Oracle copytight infringment ? Why would you want to do such a thing? Isn't SQL good enough? I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning here, besides the same argument used by the XML crowd of it's the latest/greatest do-all-be-all-end-all, so everyone should be using it type of nonsense. Nice question, overall. Answers (partial list): - it's cool - where I work, we have a HUGE database-driven web-application. A lot of our businness logic is implemented via stored procedures, that act as black boxes for the web-designers. Think of enterprise java beans. They are not nonsense or such. They are usefull. (I know, you can use ejb with JDBS and mysql..., but if you want to have some logic incapsualted, you should use some kind of component) - sp extends the RDBMS itself in its functionality. Think about some stupid check_fiscal_code() or insert_new_customer(). Web designers use the insert_new_customer, instead of using SQL directly. I think that there are others examples, but this is my point. - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
My $.02, Stick with the ANSI standard. (ANSI99?) Do not try to implement either PL/SQL or T/SQL. Please do not implement PERL (or Python) , Java, PHP or any other procedural or OO language in stored procedures. Speaking form experience, all this does is blur the lines of that the database should do and what the middle tier should do. Whatever you do, do not adversely impact the speed at which MySQL runs. Happy to Alpha/Beta test any patches you may create, IMHO, Cal * * Cal Evans * Senior Internet Dreamer * http://www.calevans.com * - Original Message - From: Claudio Cicali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 10:30 Subject: Let's approach stored procedures I think this is a little OT here, so after reading please indicate me where to talk about this subject. I'm a skilled programmer in C, C++ and others progr. lang. I have also a solid background in SQL and some RDMS (DB2, Oracle, SQLServer, and of course, Mysql). I'm going to attend a long period of holidays (finally) so, I thought: why don't try to implement stored procedures in mysql ? Now, on with the questions: I think that MySQL programmers had yet thinked on some way to implement sp, and I'd wish that someone say me: - No, dude it's impossible/too hard - No, dude, we are in the way to finish that by ourselves - No, dude, we never insert big patches in our official distribution branch, that does not belong to us Or, better, something more optimistic... I don't want to loose my time, in something that you know is impossible or too hard to get. Another question: At a first glance, I think Oracle PL/SQL is the best (afaik) programming language for sp, but, in the case we implement that language, should we go against some Oracle copytight infringment ? That's all, for now. database, mysql - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
RE: Let's approach stored procedures
- it's cool Not a valid business reason. - where I work, we have a HUGE database-driven web-application. A lot of our business logic is implemented via stored procedures, that act as black boxes for the web-designers. Think of enterprise java beans. They are not nonsense or such. They are usefull. Stored procedures aren't nonsense, but using or re-implementing a particular vendor's implementation is. (I know, you can use ejb with JDBS and mysql..., but if you want to have some logic incapsualted, you should use some kind of component) - sp extends the RDBMS itself in its functionality. Think about some stupid check_fiscal_code() or insert_new_customer(). Web designers use the insert_new_customer, instead of using SQL directly. These are all great reasons to implement stored procedures, not Oracle PL/SQL. I think I'm missing your point here... -- Ed Carp, N7EKG - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 214/341-4420 - http://www.pobox.com/~erc Squished Mosquito, Inc. Internet Applications Development Escapade Server-Side Scripting Language Development Team http://www.squishedmosquito.com Pensacola - Dallas - Dresden - London - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
Ed, Stored procedures allow you to pre-compile and re-use code easily. They also make transactions easier. (At least from one point of view) It's not like the XML argument. SPs are also part of the ANSI spec so to be compliant, MySQL will have to have them. XML is not part of the ANSI-SQL spec. IMHO, Cal * * Cal Evans * Senior Internet Dreamer * http://www.calevans.com * - Original Message - From: Ed Carp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 10:44 Subject: Re: Let's approach stored procedures Claudio Cicali ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: At a first glance, I think Oracle PL/SQL is the best (afaik) programming language for sp, but, in the case we implement that language, should we go against some Oracle copytight infringment ? Why would you want to do such a thing? Isn't SQL good enough? I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning here, besides the same argument used by the XML crowd of it's the latest/greatest do-all-be-all-end-all, so everyone should be using it type of nonsense. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 214/341-4420 - http://www.pobox.com/~erc Squished Mosquito, Inc. Internet Applications Development Escapade Server-Side Scripting Language Development Team http://www.squishedmosquito.com Pensacola - Dallas - Dresden - London - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
Cal Evans ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: Stick with the ANSI standard. (ANSI99?) Do not try to implement either PL/SQL or T/SQL. Please do not implement PERL (or Python) , Java, PHP or any other procedural or OO language in stored procedures. Speaking form experience, all this does is blur the lines of that the database should do and what the middle tier should do. BRAVO! At last, the voice of common sense is heard :) -- Ed Carp, N7EKG - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 214/341-4420 - http://www.pobox.com/~erc Squished Mosquito, Inc. Internet Applications Development Escapade Server-Side Scripting Language Development Team http://www.squishedmosquito.com Pensacola - Dallas - Dresden - London - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
RE: Let's approach stored procedures
At 11.03 07/09/2001 -0500, Ed Carp wrote: - it's cool Not a valid business reason. - where I work, we have a HUGE database-driven web-application. A lot of our business logic is implemented via stored procedures, that act as black boxes for the web-designers. Think of enterprise java beans. They are not nonsense or such. They are usefull. Stored procedures aren't nonsense, but using or re-implementing a particular vendor's implementation is. (I know, you can use ejb with JDBS and mysql..., but if you want to have some logic incapsualted, you should use some kind of component) - sp extends the RDBMS itself in its functionality. Think about some stupid check_fiscal_code() or insert_new_customer(). Web designers use the insert_new_customer, instead of using SQL directly. These are all great reasons to implement stored procedures, not Oracle PL/SQL. I think I'm missing your point here... No, sorry, it's me :) I haven't got your point. All, clear, now. bye - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
Let me clarify. I'm in great favor of stored procedures in MySQL. It is my HO that all interaction with the database should take place within stored procedures. But the ANSI standard is sufficient for most interaction with the database. My call to arms was to resist the urge that Oracle could not, implementing a full-blown language within the context of SPs. (Oracle used Java, rumor has it that MS will implement C#, Java's moronic cousin, in a future release) Again, IMHO, take it for what it's worth. Cal * * Cal Evans * Senior Internet Dreamer * http://www.calevans.com * - Original Message - From: Ed Carp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 11:14 Subject: Re: Let's approach stored procedures Cal Evans ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: Stick with the ANSI standard. (ANSI99?) Do not try to implement either PL/SQL or T/SQL. Please do not implement PERL (or Python) , Java, PHP or any other procedural or OO language in stored procedures. Speaking form experience, all this does is blur the lines of that the database should do and what the middle tier should do. BRAVO! At last, the voice of common sense is heard :) -- Ed Carp, N7EKG - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 214/341-4420 - http://www.pobox.com/~erc Squished Mosquito, Inc. Internet Applications Development Escapade Server-Side Scripting Language Development Team http://www.squishedmosquito.com Pensacola - Dallas - Dresden - London - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Cal Evans wrote: Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 11:05:27 -0500 From: Cal Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ed Carp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Let's approach stored procedures Ed, Stored procedures allow you to pre-compile and re-use code easily. They also make transactions easier. (At least from one point of view) It's not like the XML argument. SPs are also part of the ANSI spec so to be compliant, MySQL will have to have them. XML is not part of the ANSI-SQL spec. IMHO, Cal * * Cal Evans * Senior Internet Dreamer * http://www.calevans.com * Since the current version of MySQL is open source you could write stored procedures in the same language used in (until recently) DB2, i.e., C. I don't think that would be useful for those of us who are C challanged... I think the real question is, can it be done w/o impacting performance. Related question, what language or psuedo language would be used to code them. - Original Message - From: Ed Carp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 10:44 Subject: Re: Let's approach stored procedures Claudio Cicali ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: At a first glance, I think Oracle PL/SQL is the best (afaik) programming language for sp, but, in the case we implement that language, should we go against some Oracle copytight infringment ? Why would you want to do such a thing? Isn't SQL good enough? I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning here, besides the same argument used by the XML crowd of it's the latest/greatest do-all-be-all-end-all, so everyone should be using it type of nonsense. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 214/341-4420 - http://www.pobox.com/~erc Squished Mosquito, Inc. Internet Applications Development Escapade Server-Side Scripting Language Development Team http://www.squishedmosquito.com Pensacola - Dallas - Dresden - London - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php Sincerely, William Mussatto, Senior Systems Engineer CyberStrategies, Inc ph. 909-920-9154 ext. 27 - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
Cal Evans wrote: Stored procedures allow you to pre-compile and re-use code easily. They also make transactions easier. (At least from one point of view) It's not like the XML argument. SPs are also part of the ANSI spec so to be compliant, MySQL will have to have them. XML is not part of the ANSI-SQL spec. The other thing about all of this is that MySQL is feature rich so most people might not have a use for stored procedures. Unlike, say, Informix which has not build in MIN or MAX function. Again, if having stored procedures built in does not slow down queries that do not use stored procedures, I do not see what the harm is. --Bill - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
SQL. Stored procedures are loosely analogous to shell scripts. No additional language constructs, outside of what is defined in the ANSI-SQL standard are necessary for them. IMHO, C would be a bad thing. My $.02 worth, (which is worth less, each time I post) Cal * * Cal Evans * Senior Internet Dreamer * http://www.calevans.com * - Original Message - From: William R. Mussatto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Cal Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ed Carp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 11:27 Subject: Re: Let's approach stored procedures On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Cal Evans wrote: Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 11:05:27 -0500 From: Cal Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ed Carp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Let's approach stored procedures Ed, Stored procedures allow you to pre-compile and re-use code easily. They also make transactions easier. (At least from one point of view) It's not like the XML argument. SPs are also part of the ANSI spec so to be compliant, MySQL will have to have them. XML is not part of the ANSI-SQL spec. IMHO, Cal * * Cal Evans * Senior Internet Dreamer * http://www.calevans.com * Since the current version of MySQL is open source you could write stored procedures in the same language used in (until recently) DB2, i.e., C. I don't think that would be useful for those of us who are C challanged... I think the real question is, can it be done w/o impacting performance. Related question, what language or psuedo language would be used to code them. - Original Message - From: Ed Carp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 10:44 Subject: Re: Let's approach stored procedures Claudio Cicali ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: At a first glance, I think Oracle PL/SQL is the best (afaik) programming language for sp, but, in the case we implement that language, should we go against some Oracle copytight infringment ? Why would you want to do such a thing? Isn't SQL good enough? I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning here, besides the same argument used by the XML crowd of it's the latest/greatest do-all-be-all-end-all, so everyone should be using it type of nonsense. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 214/341-4420 - http://www.pobox.com/~erc Squished Mosquito, Inc. Internet Applications Development Escapade Server-Side Scripting Language Development Team http://www.squishedmosquito.com Pensacola - Dallas - Dresden - London - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php Sincerely, William Mussatto, Senior Systems Engineer CyberStrategies, Inc ph. 909-920-9154 ext. 27 - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
RE: Let's approach stored procedures
Since the current version of MySQL is open source you could write stored procedures in the same language used in (until recently) DB2, i.e., C. I Why reinvent the wheel? MySQL already has user-defined function capability in C. Related question, what language or psuedo language would be used to code them. SQL, obviously. Anything else would be insane. -- Ed Carp, N7EKG - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 214/341-4420 - http://www.pobox.com/~erc Squished Mosquito, Inc. Internet Applications Development Escapade Server-Side Scripting Language Development Team http://www.squishedmosquito.com Pensacola - Dallas - Dresden - London - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Let's approach stored procedures
Claudio Cicali ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: - where I work, we have a HUGE database-driven web-application. A lot of our businness logic is implemented via stored procedures, that act as black boxes for the web-designers. Think of enterprise java beans. They are not nonsense or such. They are usefull. (I know, you can use ejb with JDBS and mysql..., but if you want to have some logic incapsualted, you should use some kind of component) - sp extends the RDBMS itself in its functionality. Think about some stupid check_fiscal_code() or insert_new_customer(). Web designers use the insert_new_customer, instead of using SQL directly. I have found that the same thing can be achieved using a middle layer like XML-RPC or SOAP. This also allows business logic to appear closer to native functions in your web programming language than still having to use SQL. For example, if you use mod_perl, you can just call 'insert_new_customer()' from perl and this gets transmorgified across XML-RPC to a transaction in the database with very little extra code. Ive been thinking/working on this problem for a while and it seems that there are 2 major issues: 1. Ability to create arbitrary functions in some language X. 2. Ability for arbitrary function to call back into the database. Problem 1 is pretty straightforward. I've even put a patch for an older version of mysql up at http://www.tanisconsulting.com/mysql-perl.html that creates a language 'plugin' architecture and implements perl for starters. ( python would be easy, as would javascript or lisp etc.. I just happen to be a perl hacker ) Problem 2 is not, or at least I havent come up with a good, non-intrusive way to accomplish it yet. dpk - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
RE: Let's approach stored procedures
Hi Claudio, I think having the functionality of stored procedures would be a wonderful addition to MySQL. Let me be the first to say a hearty 'Thank you!' for your very generous offer to devote your vacation time to this task. I like Oracle's PL/SQL. I've used it a fair amount, and it get's the job done. PL/SQL = Procedural SQL -- SQL plus procedural logic. This has the advantage of being a language that uses the SQL that we all already know and love, plus enough procedural things -- loops, conditionals, etc. -- to implement logic. It's more a programming language than just a query language. This is a good thing. That being said, I don't think re-implementing PL/SQL is necessarily the way to go for MySQL. There may indeed be proprietary issues (though I'm not sure) and I think it'd be possible to take a more 'open source' approach. Let's remember what we want to accomplish with stored procs; that is, the ability to store server-side logic where we can implement such things as business rules, and ensure consistency in the way 'front-ends' of whatever flavour (and probably written by different programmers) perform transactions with the dataset. In my opinion, it'd be great if the choice of the server-side procedural language could be left up to the developer/DBA. Perhaps a method whereby the stored proc would then call a script in [language-of-choice] and then accept the returned results. I realize that that method is not as tightly 'married' to MySQL as an internal PL/SQL-like language would be and, depending on the scripting language, may have a bit of a performance hit, but it does allow more freedom for the DBA in the tools to choose from. Just some thoughts. They're open-source, of course, so do with them what you will. : Best, /Rob Ob. MySQL: database, sql, query, table ~ Robert Alexander~~ Programmer/Analyst/DBA/Admin WWW Database Applications~~http://www.ra1.net Web Software and Hosting ~~ http://www.workmate.ca - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
