[neonixie-l] Re: FS: Mostly working Heathkit 1103 counter

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

Counter sold and on the way to a local UPS store.

Many thanks neonixie!

Bob

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 10:42:17 AM UTC-7 Robert L wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Prompted by Johns DMM post, I have a mostly working Heathkit 1103 nixie 
> counter in fair cosmetic condition. 
>
> All display elements and annunciators light up, all switches seem to be 
> working as well. Counter goes out of lock over significant portions of the 
> input range so definitely some trouble shooting or repair needed.
>
> Here are a couple of video shot earlier this morning:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/VDFrFEoZSnu672Gv7
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/52qMmwZDZ4NKdwjB8
>
> User manual here: https://www.vintage-radio.info/download.php?id=716
>
> Happy to meet with a buyer on Zoom to demo as necessary.
>
> Asking $140 with delivery by the most cost effective carrier - USPS 
> Priority Mail, UPS or Fed Ex ground. Counter will be very well packed, 
> tracked and insured. 
>
> Payment by Zelle. Other payment methods possible, but we need to discuss. 
> Weaning myself away from PayPal!
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Bob
>

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[neonixie-l] FS: Mostly working Heathkit 1103 counter

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

Prompted by Johns DMM post, I have a mostly working Heathkit 1103 nixie 
counter in fair cosmetic condition. 

All display elements and annunciators light up, all switches seem to be 
working as well. Counter goes out of lock over significant portions of the 
input range so definitely some trouble shooting or repair needed.

Here are a couple of video shot earlier this morning:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VDFrFEoZSnu672Gv7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/52qMmwZDZ4NKdwjB8

User manual here: https://www.vintage-radio.info/download.php?id=716

Happy to meet with a buyer on Zoom to demo as necessary.

Asking $140 with delivery by the most cost effective carrier - USPS 
Priority Mail, UPS or Fed Ex ground. Counter will be very well packed, 
tracked and insured. 

Payment by Zelle. Other payment methods possible, but we need to discuss. 
Weaning myself away from PayPal!

Many thanks!

Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Shock hazard - Mr. Nixie ITS-1A clock

[Robert L]

Hi Greg, 

No, not ESD... My friend touched the shell on the cable to an external time 
source (clock ground) and the label (-270VDC). Not sure exactly what he was 
doing at the time to touch both, but there you are.

Bob


On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 5:28:27 PM UTC-8 gregebert wrote:

> If this uses an isolated supply (such as from a wall-wart), you need to 
> touch 2 circuit nodes at different voltages in order to get shocked.
> Any chance this was from electrostatic discharge (ESD) ?
>
>
> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 1:26:31 AM UTC-8 Robert L wrote:
>
>> *I just remembered one more hazard... again an issue with the conductive 
>> black layer coming in contact with various voltages.*
>>
>> There is a small tab at an interior edge of the label plate sticking out 
>> toward the tube carrier pcb in the middle where the tube carrier connector 
>> is soldered to the tube carrier pcb. This is on the front side of the tube 
>> carrier pcb and is shown in circled the image below. The label plate tab is 
>> a few mm wide and is near the center of the label plate.  
>>
>> Make sure this tab is clear of and above the tube carrier connector 
>> mounting pins. It is possible to catch the black conductive side of the 
>> label sheet tab on the connector pins when mounting the tube carrier. 
>>
>> This issue will not be a problem if the label plate is properly installed 
>> with the tab clear of and above the connector pins.
>>
>> Again, the same potential problem... there is the possibility of various 
>> voltages coming in contact with the conductive layer... possibly another 
>> shock hazard as there are moderately high voltages on pins in the center 
>> section of the connector. I could also imagine a possibility of damage to 
>> clock circuits depending on which pins touch the conductive black surface. 
>> While the -270V pin is at the side of the connector well clear of the 
>> plastic tab, there are other voltages on center pins where contact with the 
>> label sheet is possible. 
>>
>> Once again, *make sure the tab is completely clear of and **above all of 
>> the connector mounting pins*. It is possible to catch the black 
>> conductive side of the label sheet tab on the connector pins when mounting 
>> the tube carrier.
>>
>> The tab is circled in red in this image copied from the assembly manual.
>> [image: tab.jpg]
>>
>> I think assuring that the label sheet tab clears the tube carrier pins 
>> will mitigate this additional hazard. I leave it to each of you to 
>> determine that the mitigation you adopt is safe and sufficient. My intent 
>> is to make others aware of the hazard so that they can mitigate as they see 
>> fit.
>>
>> And once again, best regard, stay safe and well!
>> Bob
>> On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 12:33:26 AM UTC-8 Robert L wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Terry,
>>>
>>> I guess I could have been more clear... The label plate ink is only 
>>> *moderately* conductive; black ink on a somewhat flexible white 
>>> substrate... the label is not FR4 pcb material and there are no metal 
>>> layers. I have no experience using this material and am just letting you 
>>> know what I saw looking at the sheet on my friends clock. Both photos show 
>>> pretty good detail of the sides of the label sheet. 
>>>
>>> I measured about 18K between each pair of two side case screws securing 
>>> the label plate. I measured higher resistance side to side between the more 
>>> widely spaced pairs of front and back screws. Again, moderately conductive. 
>>> Obviously no conductivity to speak of for the laser cut plastic case parts 
>>> that the retaining screws screw into. I was able to measure the high 
>>> voltage with one probe gently resting on the black ink surface. Lightly 
>>> touching the black paint with the rounded side of a probe tip was 
>>> sufficient. I did not need to touch the metal screws or use the sharp probe 
>>> tip to break through a surface layer in order to measure voltage.
>>>
>>> The flexibility of the printed sheet likely contributes to the problem. 
>>> The sheet was able flex a bit to make contact with the pots.
>>>
>>> Moving forward, my friends two clocks are packed and will be in the mail 
>>> tomorrow. I no longer have a clock that I can look at or experiment with.
>>>
>>> Again, all best regards, stay safe and well!
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-8 Terry S wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Is this printing

[neonixie-l] Re: Shock hazard - Mr. Nixie ITS-1A clock

[Robert L]

*I just remembered one more hazard... again an issue with the conductive 
black layer coming in contact with various voltages.*

There is a small tab at an interior edge of the label plate sticking out 
toward the tube carrier pcb in the middle where the tube carrier connector 
is soldered to the tube carrier pcb. This is on the front side of the tube 
carrier pcb and is shown in circled the image below. The label plate tab is 
a few mm wide and is near the center of the label plate.  

Make sure this tab is clear of and above the tube carrier connector 
mounting pins. It is possible to catch the black conductive side of the 
label sheet tab on the connector pins when mounting the tube carrier. 

This issue will not be a problem if the label plate is properly installed 
with the tab clear of and above the connector pins.

Again, the same potential problem... there is the possibility of various 
voltages coming in contact with the conductive layer... possibly another 
shock hazard as there are moderately high voltages on pins in the center 
section of the connector. I could also imagine a possibility of damage to 
clock circuits depending on which pins touch the conductive black surface. 
While the -270V pin is at the side of the connector well clear of the 
plastic tab, there are other voltages on center pins where contact with the 
label sheet is possible. 

Once again, *make sure the tab is completely clear of and **above all of 
the connector mounting pins*. It is possible to catch the black conductive 
side of the label sheet tab on the connector pins when mounting the tube 
carrier.

The tab is circled in red in this image copied from the assembly manual.
[image: tab.jpg]

I think assuring that the label sheet tab clears the tube carrier pins will 
mitigate this additional hazard. I leave it to each of you to determine 
that the mitigation you adopt is safe and sufficient. My intent is to make 
others aware of the hazard so that they can mitigate as they see fit.

And once again, best regard, stay safe and well!
Bob
On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 12:33:26 AM UTC-8 Robert L wrote:

> Hi Terry,
>
> I guess I could have been more clear... The label plate ink is only 
> *moderately* conductive; black ink on a somewhat flexible white 
> substrate... the label is not FR4 pcb material and there are no metal 
> layers. I have no experience using this material and am just letting you 
> know what I saw looking at the sheet on my friends clock. Both photos show 
> pretty good detail of the sides of the label sheet. 
>
> I measured about 18K between each pair of two side case screws securing 
> the label plate. I measured higher resistance side to side between the more 
> widely spaced pairs of front and back screws. Again, moderately conductive. 
> Obviously no conductivity to speak of for the laser cut plastic case parts 
> that the retaining screws screw into. I was able to measure the high 
> voltage with one probe gently resting on the black ink surface. Lightly 
> touching the black paint with the rounded side of a probe tip was 
> sufficient. I did not need to touch the metal screws or use the sharp probe 
> tip to break through a surface layer in order to measure voltage.
>
> The flexibility of the printed sheet likely contributes to the problem. 
> The sheet was able flex a bit to make contact with the pots.
>
> Moving forward, my friends two clocks are packed and will be in the mail 
> tomorrow. I no longer have a clock that I can look at or experiment with.
>
> Again, all best regards, stay safe and well!
> Bob
>
>
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-8 Terry S wrote:
>
>>  Is this printing on a PCB? Not clear from your photos.
>>
>> It seems unlikely that ink used on a PCB would be conductive. 
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 2:52:25 PM UTC-6 Robert L wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> A friend received a rather nasty shock from one of his Mr. Nixie ITS-1A 
>>> clocks... To add insult to injury, he dropped the clock when shocked and 
>>> two tubes were broken.
>>>
>>> I've repaired his clock and, in the process, identified and mitigated 
>>> the shock hazard. Note that I am not connected with Mr. Nixie. I'm simply 
>>> trying to help others avoid this nasty experience.
>>>
>>> Here's what I found...
>>>
>>> 1) The black bottom case cover with  labels for "SET", "ADJ" and "ALM" 
>>> is likely printed using a carbon black based ink... Whatever the ink used, 
>>> it's conductive.
>>>
>>> 2) There are 6 trim pots on the tube carrier assembly used to 
>>> individually adjust -270V supplied to each of the six tubes. Tabs on the 
>>> trim pots are direct

[neonixie-l] Re: Shock hazard - Mr. Nixie ITS-1A clock

[Robert L]

Hi Terry,

I guess I could have been more clear... The label plate ink is only 
*moderately* conductive; black ink on a somewhat flexible white 
substrate... the label is not FR4 pcb material and there are no metal 
layers. I have no experience using this material and am just letting you 
know what I saw looking at the sheet on my friends clock. Both photos show 
pretty good detail of the sides of the label sheet. 

I measured about 18K between each pair of two side case screws securing the 
label plate. I measured higher resistance side to side between the more 
widely spaced pairs of front and back screws. Again, moderately conductive. 
Obviously no conductivity to speak of for the laser cut plastic case parts 
that the retaining screws screw into. I was able to measure the high 
voltage with one probe gently resting on the black ink surface. Lightly 
touching the black paint with the rounded side of a probe tip was 
sufficient. I did not need to touch the metal screws or use the sharp probe 
tip to break through a surface layer in order to measure voltage.

The flexibility of the printed sheet likely contributes to the problem. The 
sheet was able flex a bit to make contact with the pots.

Moving forward, my friends two clocks are packed and will be in the mail 
tomorrow. I no longer have a clock that I can look at or experiment with.

Again, all best regards, stay safe and well!
Bob


On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 8:10:27 PM UTC-8 Terry S wrote:

>  Is this printing on a PCB? Not clear from your photos.
>
> It seems unlikely that ink used on a PCB would be conductive. 
>
>
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 2:52:25 PM UTC-6 Robert L wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> A friend received a rather nasty shock from one of his Mr. Nixie ITS-1A 
>> clocks... To add insult to injury, he dropped the clock when shocked and 
>> two tubes were broken.
>>
>> I've repaired his clock and, in the process, identified and mitigated the 
>> shock hazard. Note that I am not connected with Mr. Nixie. I'm simply 
>> trying to help others avoid this nasty experience.
>>
>> Here's what I found...
>>
>> 1) The black bottom case cover with  labels for "SET", "ADJ" and "ALM" is 
>> likely printed using a carbon black based ink... Whatever the ink used, 
>> it's conductive.
>>
>> 2) There are 6 trim pots on the tube carrier assembly used to 
>> individually adjust -270V supplied to each of the six tubes. Tabs on the 
>> trim pots are directly over the conductive black printed base plate.
>>
>> The trim pot mounting tabs on my friends clock had come into contact with 
>> the conductive printed label. My friend touched the label and a grounded 
>> piece of the clock and was rewarded with the rather nasty shock.
>>
>> The photos below show the mitigation I used on my friends clocks.
>>
>> The mitigation is to assure that the trim pot tabs do not contact the 
>> black label plate. I added a triple thickness of Kapton tape between the 
>> trim pots and the label plate on his clocks. This may not be the best 
>> possible solution, but it's a starting place. I leave it to each of you to 
>> find a mitigation that you feel is safe. 
>>
>> I urge you to check your ITS-1A clock for this hazard and mitigate as you 
>> see fit. 
>>
>> I used a DVM to measure the voltage with one probe to the supply ground 
>> and the second probe touching the black printed label. I could also measure 
>> resistance between these two points with the clock unplugged. There should 
>> be an open circuit between these points -  no voltage / open circuit 
>> between these points.
>>
>> A visual check will let you see if there's clearance between the trim 
>> pots and the label plate. I strongly recommend that you mitigate the hazard 
>> - clearance or not. At a minimum, I think that you want a non-conductive 
>> barrier between the trim pot tabs and the conductive  label.
>>
>> Trim pot tabs are very close to the conductive label plate on the clock 
>> shown below... tabs were touching on the clock that shocked my friend::
>>
>> [image: PXL_20220127_175801532.jpg]
>>
>> This is the clock that shocked my friend. The photo shows a triple 
>> thickness of Kapton tape separating all of the trim pot tabs from the label 
>> plate. Tape is held in place by adhesive backing and is also trapped 
>> between the tube carrier and label plate:
>>
>> [image: PXL_20220127_180629685.jpg]
>>
>> This hazard and a possible mitigation posted here in the hope that it 
>> prevents others from receiving a nasty surprise!
>>
>> All best regards,
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Displaying unused tubes

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

I've been using low density closed cell polyethylene foam in compartmentalized 
craft storage boxes for my "inventory". 

The foam is available in sheets and rolls of various thickness and density with 
excellent long term stability, excellent shock protection... Try a search for 
"conservation polyethylene".

Quoting from one site: "Polyethylene Foam: Protection of high value objects 
requires a material that is lint-free, non-abrasive, does not adsorb moisture, 
has good thermal insulating properties and is chemically inert. Polyethylene 
foam does all this and much more."

My supplier for sheets:  https://www.foambymail.com/

Foam padded tubes go into Artbin Super Satchel storage boxes of various sizes. 
The boxes are made from acid-free polypropylene plastic. I buy them on sale 
from JoAnne Fabrics... reasonably priced at 40% to 50% off list and sales are 
frequent. These boxes stack nicely! Not super strong, but sufficient for this 
use!

>From one vendors discussion of available materials for conservation envelopes: 
>"Finally there are Polypropylene (PP). This material is considered archival 
>safe as it is chemically stable and as close to PH neutral as technical 
>possible with plastic and does not contain any plasticizers."

Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Input voltage protection

[Robert L]

> Is input protection worth $5 in parts? For me, it varies with the cost of 
> the components at risk, complexity to rework or repair, probability of 
> abuse... 
>

Forgot what may be the most important consideration... Am I repairing a 
board for my personal use, or is the board going to a user! It's worth a 
lot to me that a user never see a failure. Never. :-)


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[neonixie-l] Re: Input voltage protection

[Robert L]

Forgot to mention on the ADC.

I also use the Arduino ADC for many projects - especially when I need 
multiple channels ground referenced. Include an LM4040 4.096V +-0.5% 
reference on one of the inputs and you can get quite good absolute accuracy 
if that's also needed. There are lower voltage reference parts if you're 
running a 3.3V system. (DigiKey LM4040CYM3-4.1-TR $0.33/ea)

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 6:39:25 AM UTC-7, Robert L wrote:
>
> Here are a few parts I use on a routine basis...
>
> I2C digital pot - 10K shown, comes in other values:  AD5259BRMZ10-R7  
> (DigiKey:  AD5259BRMZ10-R7CT-ND $2.85/ea)
> I2C 16-bit ADC:  MCP3425A0T-E/CH  (DigiKey:  MCP3425A0T-E/CHCT-ND  
> $2.24/ea)
> I2C Isolator... float an ADC or other I2C parts at 200 VDC?  ISO1540 
> (DigiKey: 296-34871-1-ND $4.80/ea)
>
> Caution on the ISO1540... it is not symmetrical in that the "2" side can 
> handle more capacitive load than the "1" side.
> Did I mention I don't like manual set trim pots?
>
> Is input protection worth $5 in parts? For me, it varies with the cost of 
> the components at risk, complexity to rework or repair, probability of 
> abuse... Most of my boards just have a PTC fuse, ESD and EMC mitigation. 
> Some have current limiting high side switches. Only the controller has the 
> full protection treatment. A fuse and ESD clamp are the bare minimum I'll 
> use.
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Input voltage protection

[Robert L]

Here are a few parts I use on a routine basis...

I2C digital pot - 10K shown, comes in other values:  AD5259BRMZ10-R7  
(DigiKey:  AD5259BRMZ10-R7CT-ND $2.85/ea)
I2C 16-bit ADC:  MCP3425A0T-E/CH  (DigiKey:  MCP3425A0T-E/CHCT-ND  $2.24/ea)
I2C Isolator... float an ADC or other I2C parts at 200 VDC?  ISO1540 
(DigiKey: 296-34871-1-ND $4.80/ea)

Caution on the ISO1540... it is not symmetrical in that the "2" side can 
handle more capacitive load than the "1" side.
Did I mention I don't like manual set trim pots?

Is input protection worth $5 in parts? For me, it varies with the cost of 
the components at risk, complexity to rework or repair, probability of 
abuse... Most of my boards just have a PTC fuse, ESD and EMC mitigation. 
Some have current limiting high side switches. Only the controller has the 
full protection treatment. A fuse and ESD clamp are the bare minimum I'll 
use.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Input voltage protection

[Robert L]

My modular clock controller pcb has a MAX4866LEUT and BSL308C MOSFET for 
input protection... ESD, over-, under- and reverse-voltage protection. 
Takes very little space using small SMD parts. My controller is a dense 
board and relatively costly... also a lot of effort to hand assemble. 
Thought the protection worth the effort and also wanted to try a circuit 
using the part. 

Nice when 12V and 5V wall warts are sitting on the same bench and 12V gets 
plugged into the 5V controller. Have unintentionally tested this 
over-voltage protection at least once. :-)

Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: power supplies and radio interference

[Robert L]

Sniffing around with E- and H-field probes, the largest contributor I can 
find are  fast edges going over SPI lines on ribbon cable between 
multi-tube carrier PCB... quite obvious up to and beyond 1.5 GHz. I can see 
the digit fade activity on the spectrum analyzer... Noise for the first 
half second or so while cross fading between digits. Relative quiet the 
second half second. This with the probe right on the cable. All the noise 
significantly reduced just a small distance from the ribbon cable. Not much 
coming from the pcb proper with 4 layers including power and ground.

I'll add a small value series resistor where high rep rate signals launch 
out onto cabling... slow the edges for clock and data lines. 

All of this while PWM dimming the display tubes at 15 kHz or so. Lots of HV 
switching that doesn't seem to be a large contributor.

By *FAR*, the strongest signal I noticed in my shop was 10 MHz from a BNC 
cable running between my 10 MHz reference and a counter input.

Hmmm... All the clocks, computers and assorted electronic gadgets may be 
part of the S7 noise floor I observe on 40M... will have to see what 
happens with the clocks and computers turned off!

Bob

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Jazzed this weekend project fixed HP 3456A bench MM!

[Robert L]

Good heads up about the fakes out there! Wouldn't have thought of that...

Bob

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Jazzed this weekend project fixed HP 3456A bench MM!

[Robert L]

Hi Bill,

I *REALLY* think an off the shelf USB-GPIB interface on a reasonably 
current computer will be the way to go. There's so much more involved than 
just the hardware interface! Having a system where the various software and 
hardware pieces play well together is no small accomplishment. I'll also 
mention that network accessed instruments are also in the mix... One 
project I was recently working on used LAN access to a R instrument with 
a USB-GPIB link to a couple of HP instruments... One 82357x interface with 
the GPIB instruments daisy chained off that one port.

Off all the places where I would choose to put my efforts, duplicating the 
Keysight and R tools would not be my first choice! Then again, these are 
tools of my trade and my employers would show me the door if I wasn't 
finding efficient ways to accomplish goals. Your objectives and choices for 
a hobby will be less constrained!

The Keysight 82357A/B USB-GPIB interface referenced above is a known good 
solution. I have multiple copies at work and here at home... and have been 
using them for years!

Again, bets regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Jazzed this weekend project fixed HP 3456A bench MM!

[Robert L]

Hi Bill,

" I think my next foray into this is getting a GPIB usb interface and 
setting up some automated test and data sampling exercises."

Check out Rohde & Schwarz Forum... This has become my instrument control 
environment of choice... Python with some nice extensions and tools. 
Started using Forum to control a R instrument, now use it for a wide 
variety of Tek and HP... uh... Agilent... uh... Keysight gear. 

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/applications/using-r-s-forum-application-for-instrument-remote-control-application-note_56280-50946.html

The Keysight 82357A and 82357B USB-GPIB adapters work well for me as well:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-In-Box-HP-Agilent-82357B-USB-GPIB-Interface-High-Speed-USB-2-0/192183274642?epid=921927408=item2cbf040c92:g:iMkAAOSwaEhZEuUy

I also like the Keysight instrument control library and drivers... they 
have been reliable for me. Forum has tools to discover and control 
instruments, but I prefer Keysight Command Expert for this... Keysight and 
Forum play well together...
https://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?ckey=1184883=eng=US=-35190.0.00=1184883=PV

I suggest you avoid National Instruments software if possible... MASSIVE 
downloads and seems overly intrusive... 

Just a few suggestions on where to start!

Best regards,
Bob
Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Really??

[Robert L]

Can't wait to grab these in the last seconds...  Not!


Anticipa...


 ...tion!

 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Restoring tube which will not light up

[Robert L]

I've been conditioning a batch of ZM 1350 with varying amounts of cathode 
poisoning... Also some rather high initial strike voltages... The log 
extracts below are from one moderately poisoned tube and may give you an 
idea of what to expect. Several cathodes on this tube are still not fully 
recovered, but getting close!

Decoder key for the strike test records that follow:
Strike, Cathode, prevVanode, prevHV, Vanode, Vhv, Ianode (mA), sweep, 
pairs, [Ianode (mA), Vanode], cond, seconds

Cathode: cathode number on my tester... NOT the Telefunken cathode number. 

prevVanode, prevHV: voltage on anode before current was flowing... HV 
supply before current was flowing.

Vanode, Vhv, Ianode (mA): Anode voltage and HV supply voltage once current 
began to flow... "Ianode (mA) is the current once the tube struck subject 
to a programmed current limit equal to the rated cathode current for the 
cathode under test.

Sweep,  []



Strike test records - first power up of the tube since I received it:

Strike, 0, 192.62, 191.79, 151.72, 195.66,   0.68, sweep, 5,   0.68, 
154.76,   0.56, 153.93,   0.52, 154.48,   0.36, 153.93,   0.36, 153.93, 
cond, 0
Strike, 1, 168.58, 168.30, 151.72, 170.51,   1.32, sweep, 5,   1.32, 
155.86,   1.16, 155.86,   1.10, 155.59,   0.90, 155.31,   0.68, 155.59, 
cond, 0
Strike, 2, 173.35, 172.79, 152.09, 175.00,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 
154.85,   0.84, 154.58,   0.84, 154.85,   0.72, 154.02,   0.52, 154.30, 
cond, 0
Strike, 3, 178.80, 178.52, 151.44, 181.01,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 
155.31,   0.84, 155.03,   0.68, 154.76,   0.58, 155.03,   0.52, 155.03, 
cond, 0
Strike, 4, 178.59, 178.31, 144.91, 181.35,   1.32, sweep, 5,   1.32, 
146.02,   1.22, 146.57,   1.00, 144.91,   0.84, 142.98,   0.74, 140.77, 
cond, 0
Strike, 5, 181.84, 181.56, 150.61, 185.16,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 
155.59,   0.88, 155.59,   0.84, 156.14,   0.68, 155.59,   0.58, 155.59, 
cond, 0
Strike, 6, 178.80, 178.80, 150.34, 181.01,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 
154.48,   0.92, 153.93,   0.72, 153.38,   0.52, 153.38,   0.52, 153.38, 
cond, 0
Strike, 7, 184.94, 184.66, 149.61, 187.70,   0.66, sweep, 5,   1.16, 
154.58,   1.08, 154.30,   0.88, 153.75,   0.68, 154.02,   0.52, 154.02, 
cond, 0
Strike, 8, 156.97, 156.97, 152.55, 158.35,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 
155.31,   0.94, 154.76,   0.84, 154.76,   0.68, 154.48,   0.52, 153.93, 
cond, 0
Strike, 9, 160.29, 160.29, 153.65, 162.22,   1.16, sweep, 5,   1.16, 
155.59,   1.04, 155.31,   0.84, 154.48,   0.78, 153.93,   0.56, 153.93, 
cond, 0
Strike, 10, 173.55, 173.00, 150.89, 175.48,   0.72, sweep, 5,   1.32, 
155.03,   1.24, 154.76,   1.04, 154.21,   0.68, 153.38,   0.52, 153.38, 
cond, 0
Strike, 11, 164.15, 163.88, 151.17, 166.09,   1.00, sweep, 5,   1.00, 
153.38,   0.84, 152.82,   0.84, 152.82,   0.70, 152.27,   0.52, 152.27, 
cond, 0
Strike, 12, 149.78, 162.50, 152.82, 163.88,   1.16, sweep, 5,   1.16, 
154.48,   1.00, 153.93,   0.84, 153.38,   0.74, 152.82,   0.52, 152.82, 
cond, 0
Strike, 13, 160.29, 160.29, 153.10, 162.22,   0.58, sweep, 5,   0.68, 
155.59,   0.52, 154.21,   0.52, 154.48,   0.38, 153.65,   0.36, 153.65, 
cond, 0
Strike, 14, 217.21, 216.94, 151.44, 222.47,   0.36, sweep, 5,   0.36, 
154.48,   0.24, 152.27,   0.20, 151.99,   0.20, 152.55,   0.20, 152.82, 
cond, 0
Strike, 15, 176.04, 175.21, 147.85, 177.97,   0.52, sweep, 5,   0.52, 
151.44,   0.52, 152.27,   0.38, 152.27,   0.36, 152.82,   0.20, 152.82, 
cond, 0

Strike test records after varying amounts of conditioning... End of each 
record is number of seconds conditioning performed. Some cathodes were 
looking good after just 30 minutes conditioning, other have needed more 
time.
Strike, 0, 155.03, 165.54, 155.86, 167.47,   0.52, sweep, 5,   0.52, 
155.86,   0.52, 156.14,   0.40, 153.93,   0.36, 153.65,   0.36, 154.76, 
cond, 1800
Strike, 1, 156.69, 156.69, 157.52, 158.35,   1.34, sweep, 5,   1.34, 
157.80,   1.18, 156.97,   1.08, 156.14,   0.86, 155.03,   0.68, 154.21, 
cond, 1800
Strike, 2, 156.23, 156.23, 157.89, 158.16,   1.02, sweep, 5,   1.02, 
157.89,   0.86, 157.06,   0.84, 157.06,   0.76, 155.40,   0.54, 154.58, 
cond, 3600
Strike, 3, 156.97, 172.72, 157.52, 175.48,   1.02, sweep, 5,   1.02, 
157.80,   0.86, 156.42,   0.68, 155.03,   0.58, 153.93,   0.52, 154.21, 
cond, 1800
Strike, 4, 170.31, 170.03, 146.57, 172.24,   1.34, sweep, 5,   1.34, 
145.74,   1.18, 145.19,   1.02, 144.36,   0.90, 143.26,   0.70, 142.71, 
cond, 5400
Strike, 5, 158.16, 158.44, 158.44, 159.54,   0.52, sweep, 5,   1.02, 
158.99,   0.92, 157.89,   0.84, 157.89,   0.68, 156.51,   0.60, 155.68, 
cond, 1800
Strike, 6, 168.02, 168.02, 159.46, 170.79,   1.02, sweep, 5,   1.02, 
159.46,   0.92, 158.07,   0.70, 156.69,   0.52, 155.86,   0.52, 155.59, 
cond, 1800
Strike, 7, 160.29, 160.01, 158.35, 161.67,   0.50, sweep, 5,   1.18, 
158.90,   1.08, 157.80,   0.88, 156.69,   0.68, 155.59,   0.62, 155.03, 
cond, 1800
Strike, 8, 158.07, 159.73, 158.63, 161.39,   1.02, sweep, 5,   1.02, 
159.18,   0.84, 157.80,   0.84, 

[neonixie-l] Re: US source for French Enamel Varnish - Fire Red?

[Robert L]

Hey John,

>From your reply: I have tried water based Pebeo Vitrail and been unable to 
get an even coating.

The product I have on order is specified as a solvent based formulation 
that may be thinned with mineral or white spirit... not a water based 
solution. Not clear this is what you previously used.

In any case, I'd already placed the order and will give it a try! I'll 
report back here on my experience.

Thanks for your comments and best regards,
Bob


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[neonixie-l] Re: Rework of NixieSat with Haicom HI-204III GPS?

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

The firmware developer is John Miktuk located in New York - East coast 
USA...

>From a late-2016 e-mail exchange with John:

Feel free to share my email xxx@xxx with others interested.

 

John

 
I've deleted John's e-mail address from this post to hopefully spare him 
from the robots and more spam... PM me and I'll reply with his e-mail!

I've purchased a few processors with current firmware from John over the 
years.

John was also most helpful when Manual Azevedo and I needed to debug and 
modify an early revision of Manual's nwts code to get it to play well with 
my Jeff Thomas GPSII. (Thanks again John!)

As an aside for those using receivers without a 1PPS signal:

The firmware is looking for $GPRMC and $GPGGA.  I believe I recall it 
working correctly with only $GPRMC.


Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] US source for French Enamel Varnish - Fire Red?

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

A bit of an old topic, but I'm trying to find a US source of French Enamel 
Varnish (FEV) - Fire Red... Found multiple sources in the UK, but FEV is 
restricted for shipping to the US.

Yes, there are multiple posts on the group discussing FEV and alternatives 
used with varying degrees of success. If possible, I'd like to use FEV 
rather than an alternative, but just not finding a source in the US.

Anyone know of a US based supplier with a web presence?

Many thanks!
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Maker Faire 2019 !!!

[Robert L]

Looking forward to seeing the new "Plus" form factor clock!

Anyway, I'll be there and wonder if others here on the group are attending 
as well?

Best regards,
Bob




>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Rework of NixieSat with Haicom HI-204III GPS?

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

I've used the most current f/w with a Garmin "GPS18X LVC-5m" with excellent 
results... fast lock times,  sensitive receiver, 1PPS... While the latest 
f/w does not require a 1PPS signal, the GPS 18X LVC-5m does have a 1PPS 
signal available if you want to use it.

The GPS18X LVC-5m uses RS-232 polarity on the serial port and a 1pps signal 
is provided. You would need to provide your own cable termination 
connector. Output sentences can be configured using a Garmin support 
program available for download at the Garmin site. Firmware updates are 
also provided if needed.

>From the Garmin spec sheet (
https://static.garmincdn.com/pumac/GPS_18x_Tech_Specs.pdf):

[image: GPS18x.JPG]
Best regards,
Bob

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Re: [neonixie-l] Pricing Insanity

[Robert L]

At least this seller adds exclusive packaging!


https://www.ebay.com/itm/6x-IN-18-MATCHED-SET-IN18-Nixie-tube-ussr-NEW-in-exclusive-packaging/254218074672?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D57921%26meid%3De0d94dd7ba264476b4030b0258de557c%26pid%3D15%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D133047448056%26itm%3D254218074672&_trksid=p2047675.c15.m1851


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[neonixie-l] Re: The case of the singing nixie tube

[Robert L]

My ears leave something to be desired these days... Singing? What singing! 
OK. My wife and animals hear it. It's real.

I use a small microphone and PC based spectrum analyzer to explore sounds I 
can't hear. The mic is at the end of a bit of heat shrink tubing close to a 
preamplifier on a longer cable back to a USB sound port on the PC.

The heat shrink tubing allows me to use the mic as a probe to localize 
sources and manually probe near dangerous voltages without risk of a nasty 
bite. 

Photo of the probe and links to the various components follow... Note that 
the Panasonic mic linked below replaces the larger mic that comes with the 
amplifier.


[image: probe mic.jpg]


 

PC based spectrum analyzer to “see” noise. Does the job nicely and takes up 
no extra desk space.

http://www.fatpigdog.com/SpectrumAnalyzer/index.html

 

Mic preamp:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/adafruit-industries-llc/1063/1528-1013-ND/4990762&?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2_a6kfqu3wIVi7jACh3OowKOEAQYASABEgJjhPD_BwE

 

Panasonic WM-61A… this mic is near the front of the black rubber tube 
coming off the preamp board. Rubber and heat shrink tubing prevent contact 
with HV around tubes. THis mic replaces the mic that comes with the preamp 
above.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-WM-61A-Replacement-Microphones/352220785310?hash=item5201feaa9e:g:W2cAAOxybi9ReW5o:sc:USPSPriority!94065!US!-1:rk:34:pf:0

PC sound port… An existing microphone port is likely fine as well. I use 
these small USB ports because they are relatively quiet and other sound 
ports are in use.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IRVQ0F8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8=1

As an aside, I resolved B7971 singing on my design by shifting PWM to a 
higher frequency. Pay attention to a broad spectrum as sub-harmonics 
eventually became a problem as well. 

Enjoy...
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Repair / Troubleshoot an IN-18 Blue Dream

[Robert L]

Hi Paul,

Jeff very accurately describes how I replace most SOIC and similar low lead 
count parts... What he describes works and works well! I also really like 
hot air...

That said, here's another technique that I sometimes use and may be a bit 
easier for you if you don't have tiny diagonal cutters.

The video linked below describes flooding the pins with solder and slipping 
the part off to the side. This technique is nice if the part doesn't have 
too many leads. Works fine on SOIC-8 packages!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ_VVTyPGrU

Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Dummy load

[Robert L]

For instance...  On Semi FDD3N40 or FDU3N40... 400V / 2 A / 30W in DPAK or 
TO-251... I usually have a few FDD3N40 on hand and have used them in 
multiple designs. There are of course many good alternatives!

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[neonixie-l] Re: Dummy load

[Robert L]

Hi Paul,


I also like the "simple" current sink circuit approach, but it usually 
takes a few more parts to get a stable circuit... the most basic design 
with just a resistor, transistor and op amp tends to "sing"! And there's 
also some parts selection to be done.

 

See Linear Tech Application Note 105, figure 200 on page 108:  
https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an105fa.pdf


Here's where I might start on adapting the Linear Tech design...

 

Change the 1 Ohm resistor to 10 Ohm for a 1 V  / 100 mA control voltage.

 

Will need a suitable MOSFET for the application… I filtered N-Channel 
MOSFET on DigiKey looking for the following:

 

Vdss between 250 and 400 VDC... I regularly use supplies at 180V and 
occasionally push 300V. Make sure you have some margin.

Power Dissipation between 25 and 40 W… I assume at least 100 mA at 200 V 
for the load… plus margin… plus a suitable heat sink!

Continuous current between 1.7A (lowest available value by the time the 
previous filters were in place) and 3A (provides a few more alternatives!)

 

I also suggest a 10V to 12V supply for the op amp to assure ample gate 
drive voltage. Some of these MOSFET need a bit of drive to get to higher 
currents… 5V might well be sufficient, but need to check the MOSFET data 
sheet. 


Select an op amp for operation to the negative rail for low current 
settings and a suitable V+ supply range.

 

 Anyway, that's a start!


Enjoy

Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Dummy load

[Robert L]

I also like the simple current sink circuit approach, but it usually takes 
just a few more parts to get a stable circuit... the most basic design with 
just a resistor, transistor and op amp tends to "sing"!

See Linear Tech Application Note 105, figure 200 on page 108:  
https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an105fa.pdf

You might change the 1 Ohm resistor to 10 Ohm for a 1 V  / 100 mA control 
voltage.



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[neonixie-l] Re: For sale: MOD-SIX_Gen V B-7971 clock assembled, but WITHOUT tubes

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

The clock is sold...

Many thanks!
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: For sale: MOD-SIX_Gen V B-7971 clock assembled, but WITHOUT tubes

[Robert L]

Hi Isaac,

Yes... still available.

One other person has just expressed interest as well. Nothing for days, 
then two within an hour of each other. Go figure?

Please contact me on my e-mail and we can take this offline. "reply 
privately to author"

Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: For sale: MOD-SIX_Gen V B-7971 clock assembled, but WITHOUT tubes

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

Let's see what happens at $750 plus actual cost of shipping tracked, fully 
insured and signature required on delivery. 

Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: circuit board creation.....

[Robert L]

Hi Kerry,

I'm also a KiCad fan... I've switched to it and most of the engineers at 
work have followed along for our non-product boards - test fixtures and 
such.

You will find loads of decent on-line support via YouTube videos and such. 
The package includes a pcb trace calculator as Greg recommends, as well as 
a decent Gerber file viewer.

Enjoy the process... it can be loads of fun.

Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Shady ZM568M listings

[Robert L]

OK... Becomming a bit less willing to extend the benefit of the doubt...

Seller has re-listed the remaining tube with pretty much the same 
questionable working... He ignored my suggested changes...

To bad...

B

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Shady ZM568M listings

[Robert L]

I'll add to the three lessons I posed in my response above...  Ask your 
questions of the seller before bidding! Make sure there's no ambiguity.

There were enough flags in the listing for me to have been more careful... 
Could the seller have had a better phrasing in their listing? Sure... Could 
I have been a bit more careful? Definitely!

I'm going to stick with "benefit of the doubt".

On with Sunday and Fusion360...

Best regards,
Bob


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[neonixie-l] Re: Shady ZM568M listings

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

*I* made a mistake and bought what I thought was a 6 tube clock from this 
seller at around 4:30 am this morning... and requested that seller cancel 
my purchase a few minutes later when I realized *MY* mistake... Auction was 
for one tube only...

Note that this was a different auction, but from the same seller...

Seller *promptly *cancelled the transaction, *my* mistake rectified, *all* 
funds 
restored... I have no problem or complaint with how the seller responded to 
*my* error. I'd leave strong positive feedback if I had the option.

Lessons on my side... not all new...

1) If it seems too good to be true...
2) Read carefully and wait at least 20 minutes before bidding between the 
hours of 23:00 and 06:00...
3) A non-English speaking seller or possible language issues? Maybe wait 30 
minutes...

My thanks to the seller for his understanding and for the prompt 
cancellation. My apologies to the seller for costing him time and 
(hopefully not too much) aggravation!

Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: PCB fabricator recommendations/comparisons?

[Robert L]

I've had good results with SEEED Studio Fusion... A few minor issues 
recently around the Chinese New Year, but minor and they were addressed and 
resolved.

Keep your board under 100mm x 100mm and 2-layers and you will get 10 boards 
for $4.90 plus a $22 or more hit for DHL shipping from China. II usually 
collect a batch of boards to combine shipping and pay just one DHL cost at 
around $22 to $30 depending on how many boards... how much weight. DHL is 
consistently 2 days to the SF Bay area. Just designed some small power 
supply boards for a work project. Boards are 40mm x 50mm, 2 layer. I 
generated Gerbers for a 2x2 array of the boards with V-Cuts to separate. 
These fit within the 100 x 100 mm low cost constraint. V-Cuts make it easy 
to separate the boards by hand leaving decent clean edges. I get 40 2-layer 
supply boards for under $30. Not at all bad! I also like color coding my 
boards taking advantage of the 5 or 6 colors available from SEEED. Have 
also had nice results with internal router cuts.

I've been using OSH Park for some of my smaller boards at 2 and 4 layers... 
3 boards for $5 (2-layer) and $10 (4-layer) per square inch.  Another of my 
boards is under a half inch square. How do they even cover the cost of 
postage? Quality has been excellent, customer service has been great as 
well. OSH is my solution for prototyping circuits that are way to fine 
pitch, way too small to do any other way. 

I'm using a Whizoo re-flow toaster with excellent results as well. But 
that's a topic for some other thread!

Regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Low cost power supplies for bread board use? Here's one... What do you use?

[Robert L]

Hi folks,


A couple people have made recent posts mentioning low cost power supplies 
for bread boarding and bench development. Thought I'd share a supply that 
has been working well for me and see what others may be using as well.


While I have a variety of decent bench supplies, I occasionally want a 
simple and low cost supply that I can dedicate to a given bread board 
project for a period of time… or plywood board in some cases… While I can 
often do without current limiting, excellent load regulation or superior 
low noise, I virtually always want a single power switch. Low cost is nice 
as well...


A case in point requiring +35 VDC, +70 VDC and -210 VDC… all at low current:






Shown above are three Chinese DC-DC Boost converters to the rear under blue 
painter’s tape. These three supplies are run off a single positive 12VDC 
supply with trin-pot adjustable bipolar outputs. Painter's tape? It's a 
bread board and NOT left running unattended! Cautions also apply when 
working with HV... the photo above is not a great example of good bench 
practice! To mitigate, I touch wires only after the supplies are powered 
off, disconnected from the source supply and allowed to discharge for 45 
seconds or so.


Here's one of the three supplies... photo from the web...






The stock specification on these is 8VDC to 32VDC input, +/-45VDC to 
+/-390VDC output. These cost around $6.04/each plus $1.85 shipping… just 
under $20 for three supplies delivered. AND a few weeks waiting for 
delivery. (Suggestion… If these sound good to you, order a few now and save 
yourself the wait when the next project comes round! They take very little 
space in the spare parts file.)


Here’s one of many similar listings for these supplies: 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/322374659518


The careful reader may have noticed that I needed +35VDC for the project 
above and that the supplies are rated for a low end of +/-45VDC… 


I changed the circled resistor below from the stock value of 5.78K to 
28.7K. This dropped the low end output from around 41VDC to 31VDC.


A caution: Please be careful setting high voltage outputs on this modified 
supply as the upper limit has been moved… I marked the modified converter 
for lower voltage and will limit it to around 100V max out. 

I’ve blown similar supplies when running them near their upper limits. As a 
result, I now de-rate these and similar units by at least 10% for both 
voltage and current.


 I saved the original 5.78K/0603 and an 18K/0805 part I tried… These extra 
parts are boxed it the photo below and hung off a large terminal block 
connection for future use if needed.

 





Sooo... What supplies do YOU use?

 

 Best regards,

Bob

 

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[neonixie-l] Re: How to power 18 IN-9?

[Robert L]

Sorry Greg,



I have to speak up... As you are well aware, there are real hazards working 
with the AC mains... lethal hazards... hazards only to be approached with 
proper training, experience and caution. The hazards go way beyond fried 
electronics up to and including the risk of nasty and potentially lethal 
shock. Mains can and do kill... 

I know you know this, that you respect the hazards, and that you trust your 
level of experience and training. I respect your designs... I respect your 
skills! I respect your training!

In contrast, this thread was started by a student with what seems to be 
little practical experience and likely no training on working with mains or 
other high energy circuits. My strong belief / conviction is that they have 
no  place working with a non-isolated mains design prior to acquiring 
appropriate training. I personally will not do a non-isolated mains powered 
device. The risk/reward equation doesn't begin to work for me.

What follows is only intended to give an idea of what's involved... The 
list is not complete and may have inaccuracies, but it gives an idea of 
some of *my* concerns! Old maps used to say "Here there be dragons" in 
areas where little was known... for me, that saying applies to mains 
connected  non-isolated designs. Go there if you must, but go with caution 
and the knowledge to properly understand the risks and how to mitigate them.

Many of the hazards can be avoided or significantly mitigated by using an 
appropriately safety-certified isolated power source. Given a choice, I 
choose to let someone else do the mains connected part of a design and have 
that design tested and certified for compliance on their dime... and fully 
documented as part of what I check both on my hobby projects as well as 
when I compile a documentation package that will accompany a device sent 
for compliance testing.

There are safety standards for compliance when connected to higher voltages 
(not safety extra low voltage "SELV" which covers most of what I do - in 
part SELV will be under 60 V and ISOLATED by current standards...)... you 
mention some.  Here are some of those standards in no particular order and 
absolutely not a complete list: we have multiple means of patient and 
operator protection (MOOP, MOPP: 60601-1 3rd... if you happen to be in 
medical... other standards apply for other devices...) - multiple failures 
have to happen for a person to connect to the mains. There are component 
ratings for various applications of mains connected devices ("X" and "Y" 
capacitors as an example... these are not just 1 kV rated caps...), 
creepage and clearance, leakage limits... The list goes on for quite a bit. 
Then what happens when the device is knocked off a shelf and someone goes 
to pick up the pieces? What happens when the babysitter plugs her 
headphones into the jack? There are reasons why some odd and unusual 
connectors show up on equipment - they are highly unlikely to be 
accidentally connected to an improper device. 

There are loads of accessible articles  out there that give a starting 
place on mains electrical safety... this two part article was the first hit 
off a Google search (search "working with mains voltage safety") and seems 
like a nice easy intro...
  
https://hackaday.com/2016/05/11/looking-mains-voltage-in-the-eye-and-surviving-part-1/
  
https://hackaday.com/2016/05/16/looking-mains-voltage-in-the-eye-and-surviving-part-2/

Low voltage also deserves respect... As an example, I remove my ring and 
watch before reaching into a chassis or circuit regardless if there's 
hazardous energy inside. This is a habit I choose to always enforce so that 
it's there when it matters Low voltages may not be a hazard for 
electrocution, but a short across a ring can result in a nasty burn if 
there's sufficient energy available. There was the time I was reaching into 
an old Heathkit tube device with both hands... violating multiple safety 
practices. I'd acquired new habits over a bunch of years working with 15 
VDC and below very low energy circuits... My pulse jumped... a lot... when 
I noticed what I was doing. I decided then that I would have only one set 
of habits... 

Anyway... had to say something... NOW I can sleep!

I'd welcome others to chime in... Please call out or fix anything I have 
wrong, etc... This is a worthy topic for discussion!

As always, best regards,
Bob





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[neonixie-l] Re: Jeff Thomas GPSII

[Robert L]

This:  https://www.tubeclockdb.com/user-submitted/354-jeff-thomas-gpsii.html

 
I've two modified here at home and a few out in the wild.


 

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[neonixie-l] Re: not available 'Omnixie' Smart Wifi Nixie Clock released

[Robert L]

On Saturday, March 17, 2018 at 10:32:44 AM UTC-7, philthepill wrote:
>
> Mouser page shows  0 in stock  expected delivery of first batch is middle 
> of June
>

Transformer in stock at Digikey for $2.21/ea...  
ATB322515-0110
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/tdk-corporation/ATB322515-0110/445-8635-1-ND/3008149

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[neonixie-l] Re: My little IN-13 Spectrum Analyser

[Robert L]

Hi Paul,
 
I've lost count of how many times I've viewed your video...

A very nice job indeed!

Best,
Bob L. 

 

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[neonixie-l] Re: People Like Neon / Nixies animated GIFs

[Robert L]

There's a tag line to make it complete...

Dark Hours Design... It's not my day job!

Bob
 

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[neonixie-l] Re: NCH8200HV Eagle lbr

[Robert L]

Consider making two footprint. One soldered, one for pin sockets.

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[neonixie-l] Re: NCH8200HV Eagle lbr

[Robert L]

I made a symbol and footprint for KiCad...

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[neonixie-l] Nice power supply on eBay...

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

A seller has some nice American Power Designs DC-DC converters listed on 
eBay:  item 142427227003
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-Converter-180V-35mA-Regulated-Out-10-13V-In-American-Power-Design-/142427227003

I spoke with an engineer at American Power Designs and he believes (but was 
not absolutely sure) that these are S10 supplies derated for 90C operation. 
In any case, data sheet attached here.

I  ordered a few and had one running on my bench... 12V / 1 A in and 180 V 
at something like 40 mA constant load... I forget the exact conditions as I 
tested at a variety of operating points and didn't take notes... (Bad dog, 
no biscuit!). Ran them with loads up to 50 mA and saw output sag to around 
177 V at the higher loads.

Warm but not toasty throughout my brief testing. I've ordered a few more...

No connection to seller, but he has been very easy to deal with and was 
very fast shipping. No connection to this auction or seller other than as a 
happy buyer.

Best wishes for the holidays!

Bob



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SP7067C.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

[neonixie-l] Re: Can anode current limiting be replaced with cathode current limiting?

[Robert L]

One other thought Allen...

What I believe is a simulation schematic shows 1 meg pull-downs on the base 
lines. These may not be necessary depending on other elements of your 
circuit in the real world.

My current design uses 595 shift registers and the outputs are high-Z when 
disabled (Output Enable not asserted). There is indeed a small amount of 
leakage current driving the transistor base lines when the 595 outputs are 
in high-Z - the display has a very faint glow on just a few segments that 
is not really visible in any but a dark room.

The thing is, the faint glow won't matter in my design. The only time the 
outputs are in high-Z is during duty cycle modulation to control display 
intensity. The faint glow during the high-Z portion of the driving signal 
makes no difference. It's just not visible.

Segments are solid on or off when the 595 outputs are driven. My circuit 
drives hard zeros when the display is dark but powered. I disable the HV 
power supply when I want the display dark and in an energy saving state.

I opted not to include the pull-downs.Your mileage may vary!

Again, best regards,
Bob 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Can anode current limiting be replaced with cathode current limiting?

[Robert L]

Individual cathode current limiters work great... Stole the idea from 
Greg's B7971 design. Note the transistors and current set resistors lining 
the display in the photo below. First light today on this Sperry SP-151 
Panaplex.

In this case, I'm using individual cathode limiting due to widely differing 
amounts of current needed by the various segments for uniform intensity... 
not to mention the impact of varying numbers of segments for different 
displayed values using basic anode limiting. Note the uniform glow? :-)

These are running a test with a single one and 31 zeros circulating at high 
rate around the 32 element shift register that drives the transistor bases. 




Will use the same design with a Telefunken ZM 1350 display that's also in 
the works. Same issues and concerns a the B7971.

Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: ITS1-A on eBay

[Robert L]

Here's a contact e-mail for Sergey who sold me several sets of ITS1 tubes: 
Sergey Alekseev 

I've confirmed that he has a fair number of ITS1A tubes in stock. These are 
probably a mix of the "A" and "B" versions, and also likely a mix of white 
and pink washers. You will have to ask him for details on what he has.

He did well for me and a few of my friends. His pricing was fair and he 
provided me with truly excellent customer service and support. I'm a very 
satisfied repeat customer, but otherwise, I've no connection with him.

Did I mention that I also really like my Mr. Nixie ITS1-A/B clocks? 
Especially with the double colon mod that Mike B. pioneered...

Enjoy!
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: SP-151 Segmented display for nixie clock or watch

[Robert L]

No more available at this time...

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[neonixie-l] Re: Panplex question, Sperry SP-33

[Robert L]

Cross posting with another Panaplex thread...

Search for:  "Sperry Panaplex 1973 catalog". You will find the following 
with a wealth of data on many of the relatively common Sperry displays out 
there... including pin-outs, drive currents, circuits, etc.

information displays:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=7=rja=8=0ahUKEwj1pMG_44DXAhWohVQKHbPWCNUQFghAMAY=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.waynekirkwood.com%2Fimages%2Fpdf%2FSperry_Information_Displays_Catalog_1973.pdf=AOvVaw1W-p-iUcgp-fofU-o4Vd-b


clock displays:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=8=rja=8=0ahUKEwj1pMG_44DXAhWohVQKHbPWCNUQFghGMAc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.waynekirkwood.com%2Fimages%2Fpdf%2FSperry_Gas_Discharge_Clock_Display_Catalog_1973.pdf=AOvVaw3udU-p-JwF8WvpsXZDH3Ga


Regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Round Panaplex Display on Ebay

[Robert L]

To, From, cross indicator...

Looks like a VOR display... found this...

http://lampes-et-tubes.info/cd/cd167.php?l=f


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[neonixie-l] Re: New nixie power supply released - NCH8200HV

[Robert L]

Hi Yan,

Many thanks  for your quick response!

The change you suggest is clear, perfectly meets my needs and I don't 
anticipate any trouble making the change.

Again, MANY THANKS!
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: New nixie power supply released - NCH8200HV

[Robert L]

Hi Yan,

I have a  couple on order from ebay...

My application is USB powered and I'll need to implement a shutdown 
function. Is there a shutdown mechanism on the board that you did not bring 
out to a pin? I'd be perfectly happy accessing the pin with added wires as 
needed.

Plan "B" is to switch the 5V input to the chip, but an existing logic level 
input would be simpler!

Many thanks for anything you might suggest!
Bob


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[neonixie-l] Re: SP-151 Segmented display for nixie clock or watch

[Robert L]

7 now remaining...

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[neonixie-l] Re: Absolutely gorgeous Z568M Nixie clock on Ebay

[Robert L]

Hi Greg,

Failure analysis of open traces and wires... This from looking at a couple 
of large tubes earlier this year...

1) Measure capacitance anode to element and compare with a known good tube. 
I found significant reduction in capacitance on an element with a break in 
the lead near the tube base. 

2) I've also been able to resolve about 1 mm on a failed trace using a 
Keysight 53220A counter for crude TDR... Have done the same with a Stanford 
Research SR-620... many others models will work as well - especially if you 
don't need such fine resolution. I was looking for length differences in 
the mm range on the end of a 3' BNC cable. The relatively long cable gave 
me nice separation between outgoing edge and the reflection.

Launch a fast edge into the trace to encourage a pronounced reflection... I 
used a 2.5 V positive going pulse with about 1 nS rise and fall times fed 
with a very short connection to a "T" at the counter input. Input to 
counter DC coupled and 50 Ohm terminated. Fast edge then routed from the 
BNC "T" at the counter input into the trace being measured. I measured the 
time difference between the primary falling edge (triggering the interval 
counter at around 1.5V falling) and the rising edge of the reflected wave 
(triggering around -250 mV rising). I had the counter average a couple 
hundred samples allowing me to resolve down to ps differences and about a 
mm resolution... Compared interval from DUT and traces of known lengths on 
units with cuts at known points (exacto knife). 

It helped setup to first put the BNC "T" at a 50 Ohm terminated scope input 
to see the waveform with reflection and to get a good idea of trigger 
points... then move the BNC to the counter input.

Numbers above are approximate and from memory.

Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: SP-151 Segmented display for nixie clock or watch

[Robert L]

Now 10 remaining...

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[neonixie-l] Re: SP-151 Segmented display for nixie clock or watch

[Robert L]

This will also be useful!

http://www.waynekirkwood.com/images/pdf/Sperry_Gas_Discharge_Clock_Display_Catalog_1973.pdf

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[neonixie-l] Re: SP-151 Segmented display for nixie clock or watch

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

These look like an interesting display to play with and so I just bought 25 
on ebay. My intent is to keep 5 for myself and 5 are spoken for by a 
friend... 15 left...

I'll pass the remaining SP-151 displays along to folks here at neonixie at 
just barely over my cost... $6.75/ea plus $7.50 for a USPS Priority Mail 
Flat Rate box... I've bumped the numbers by a few percent to allow PayPal 
their share.

Let's make it lots of 3 or more displays to cut down on my overhead time. 
Send me a private reply to let me know how many you would like!

total by PayPal = (numDisplays * $6.75) + $7.50

Many thanks,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Not Nixie related but might be of interest. Large RGB Matrix

[Robert L]

Sent a query to Barco a couple of days ago... so far no response.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Pics of the new release MOD-SIX_7971

[Robert L]

>
>
> 
>

Finally a place for precious... 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the comments!

Circuit includes a comment that heat will be an issue at higher loads. 
Components will go 12 V or more at 3 A with small value changes to adjust 
turn on ramp, but highest I imagine for this implementation will be 12V at 
1A which was my design point.

Looking at 6 mW in the immediate application (5V, 200 mA),  80 mW for the 
12V, 1A case. Traces are adequate at 0.020" with a short neck down to 0.015 
through the 0805 parts. Note also low Rds(on) of 150 milliohm for this 
MOSFET at a worst corner case.

Layout is ExpressPCB as I have several existing small utility boards 
already in ExpressPCB. I'll probably make a few more of the other small 
cards when I do this one so leaving the board in ExpressPCB.

I'll toss in a few heat spreading via, but not going to do much in this 
case. I frequently end up with additional layers and multiple via when 
building designs that operate at higher dissipation - just not the case 
here! 

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

Thanks Greg... Good points... 

The circuit is intended to be installed internal to a housed device, but 
ESD definitely an issue prior to and during installation. Adding belt and 
suspenders can't hurt.


 Now 
1.0" x 0.4"


Additional comments and suggestions always welcome...


B



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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

Good points... The circuit is intended to be installed internal to a housed 
device, but ESD definitely an issue prior to and during installation. 
Adding belt and suspenders can't hurt. And I'm sure we all work at a bench 
with a grounded mat, wrist strap and good bench hygiene...


  
Now 1" x 0.4"...


Additional comments and thoughts always welcome!


B

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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

Looking good to me in sim land... circuit meets my design objectives up to 
and beyond 12 VDC with loads above 3A. 

Caution: Watch out for heat with higher loads... Small pcb shown will not 
support the resulting dissipation with these high loads...









Will add this to the next board I turn where there's a bit of extra space.

*I'm curious... If I were to make extra of these now would others want a 
bare board and simple parts kit? Bare fab, transistor and the four 0805 
passives only. Let me know if you're interested? I'd make a run of boards 
specifically for these now rather than waiting for another excuse down the 
road.*

*Figure on the order of $3.00 to $4.00/ea delivered in an envelope by first 
class mail. Cost will depend on how many ways we share the board cost which 
dominates price. *

*No commitment on my part as yet, just seeing if there's interest...*

*Regards,*
*Bob*

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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

Dual footprint for SOT-23 and SOT-223... Heat mass moved more to center of 
the small pcb.



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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

Dual footprint for SOT-23 and SOT-223... Heat mass moved more to center of 
the small pcb.



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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

Hi Gaston,

Good points... Going deeper on where I am with the design at the moment...

I considered the BSS84 early on as I have some in the spare parts bin... 
but...
  > BSS84 is a nice part and I use it a lot, but only rated for 130 mA and 
I'll be running around 200 mA continuous in this application. Also has 
significant Rds(on) at -5 V of 10 ohms max... can be too high for my 
application.
  > Si1013R is rated 350 mA continuous at 25C and Rds(on) at 4.5 V of 1.2 
ohms max. Simulation already done to confirm Vgs comfortably within limits 
as circuit operates and transitions on->off and off-> on.
So getting closer with the Si1013R (which also happened to be in the 
built-in LTSpice library). But, as you point out, the Si1013R will be in 
trouble with a 12V rail... so I'm still looking.

I'd really like to build one little board for a wide range of 
applications... at least 12V operating, at least 1 A operating.

Currently leaning toward the NTF5P03T3G... will probably stop looking as 
this is a more than adequate selection for current and anticipated needs. 
SOT-223 tabbed package that is still easy for hand solder if necessary, way 
lower Rds(on), ample voltage and current limits. Alternative parts 
available in the same package and pin-out...

Thought about a dual footprint board so that I can load a SOT-23 if I want 
for a given application... will probably just use the larger 223 and be 
done with it. Typically have the modest additional space needed say 1" 
x 0.4 " or a bit smaller total board size with the 223.




I'll update the post when I have parts selected and a layout I like.

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

For the circuit shown and simulated above... there's output rise time and 
output delay from application of power. These are two different times.

In the simulation below, + 5 input power comes on at T=0 and it then takes 
about a half second for the slow start output to reach ~5 V.  The slow 
start voltage rises from 0 to ~5V in about 240 mS... This is the ramp the 
load sees. There's a gap after the application of power before the output 
begins to rise.

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

So I considered using a Negative Temp Coefficient (NTC) inrush limiter for 
my clock with the three IV-11 filaments in series on the 5V rail... Found 
an appropriate part after a pretty broad search, but ran into a 100 piece 
minimum order quantity at $2.50 per each and 6-8 weeks lead time. No... I 
don't think so... not a good plan...

Here's plan "B" which I actually like a lot more than plan "A" above. 

The design below uses a mosfet with turn-on time slowed by an RC network. 
As shown, the slow start takes about a quarter second to rise to near 5V. I 
believe this will be plenty slow enough to protect the IV-11 filaments. 
I've previously used the same basic circuit to allow a switch mode wall 
wart to power a device with high initial inrush charging capacitors. The 
wall wart would go into hiccup mode trying to start the device in question 
when used without the inrush limiter. This slow start is a broadly useful 
circuit.

(Here's a TI note describing the circuit below as well as several others:  
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva156/slva156.pdf)

A few nice things about this circuit... 

1) It will work to slow start most any 5 - 12 V load (though possibly with 
component value changes).
2) Operating voltage drop can be made very small with careful mosfet 
selection. My IV-11 will actually like a slightly lower operating voltage 
as the are currently at the upper end of spec. 
3) Reset time is on the order of 1.5 seconds as shown. (Reset time is the 
time after power off that is needed to assure a slow start the next time 
power is applied. This time allows a large cap in the circuit to discharge. 
This is rather like the time needed for an NTC inrush protector to cool 
between applications of power.)
4) The circuit can be set up to run quite cool depending on operating load 
and selection of a mosfet with sufficiently low Ron.
5) One slow start circuit will take care of multiple loads on a common 
power supply... this was not going to work with the particular NTC part I 
had found due to excessive voltage drop if I used just one part for 
multiple filament strings. This one circuit can actually replace a wide 
variety of NTC parts for these low voltage applications.

So... I'll spin up a small pcb for the slow start to be included in unused 
area on the next larger board that I have occasion to build. I expect there 
will be other uses for the little board so worth the trouble to make a 
small pcb for it. Will also fine tune a few values as needed but the values 
shown here are a not unreasonable starting place.




Onward...
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

So I considered using a Negative Temp Coefficient (NTC) inrush limiter for 
my clock with the three IV-11 filaments in series on the 5V rail... Found 
an appropriate part after a pretty broad search, but ran into a 100 piece 
minimum order quantity at $2.50 per each and 6-8 weeks lead time. No... I 
don't think so... not a good plan...

Here's plan "B" which I actually like a lot more than plan "A" above. 

The design below uses a mosfet with turn-on time slowed by an RC network. 
As shown, the slow start takes about a half second to rise to near 5V. I 
believe this will be plenty slow enough to protect the IV-11 filaments. 
I've previously used the same basic circuit to allow a switch mode wall 
wart to power a device with high initial inrush charging capacitors. The 
wall wart would go into hiccup mode trying to start the device in question 
when used without the inrush limiter. It's a broadly useful circuit.

(Here's a TI note describing the circuit below as well as several 
others:  http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slva156/slva156.pdf)

A few nice things about this circuit... 

1) It will work to slow start most any 5 - 12 V load (though possibly with 
component value changes).
2) Operating voltage drop can be made very small with careful mosfet 
selection. My IV-11 will actually like a slightly lower operating voltage 
as the are currently at the upper end of spec. 
3) Reset time is on the order of 1.5 seconds as shown. (Reset time is the 
time after power off that is needed to assure a slow start the next time 
power is applied. This time allows a large cap in the circuit to discharge. 
This is rather like the time needed for an NTC inrush protector to cool 
between applications of power.)
4) The circuit can be set up to run quite cool depending on operating load 
and selection of a mosfet with sufficiently low Ron.
5) One slow start circuit will take care of multiple loads on a common 
power supply... this was not going to work with the particular NTC part I 
had found due to excessive voltage drop if I used just one part for 
multiple filament strings. This one circuit can actually replace a wide 
variety of NTC parts for these low voltage applications.

So... I'll spin up a small pcb for the slow start to be included in unused 
area on the next larger board that I have occasion to build. I expect there 
will be other uses for the little board so worth the trouble to make a 
small pcb for it.




Onward...

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

Hey Greg,

Filament voltage is only 1 V on these IV-6 tubes, so not a lot of gradient 
to speak of... and the active current limiter will take care of any in-rush 
current. Still, I'm seeing relatively well matched voltage drop across the 
6 filaments so the simple current limit resistors already in place seem to 
be doing an adequate job of controlling the operating current.

I'll see what happens over time with the switched power on these IV-6 
tubes... The good thing is it's just one clock and the tubes are cheap!

I've another clock with cold filaments when in PIR sleep... that clock uses 
a series connection of three tube filaments to limit the filament voltage - 
there's no series resistor. I'll also keep an eye on that one as it faces a 
double whammy - inrush current and filaments switched off during sleep!

Regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

I've also had generally very good reliability with vfd displays... 
instrument displays, larger tubes in clocks... 

Tubes are in this clock are Russian IV-6 with roughly 1.0 to 1.1 V across 
the filament. Voltage is limited by individual series resistors from the 
nominal 5V supply. Filaments are dim, but visible in a less than bright 
room and vary in intensity. See photos below.

As Greg suggests, "So, if you have VFD's I guess you want to keep the 
filaments always-on, and blank the anodes when not in use." That's exactly 
what I originally did with this clock.






As a side note, it would be easy to replace the (crude but reasonably 
effective!) series current limit resistors with active high side transistor 
current limiters... but all tubes are within spec as I understand it. 

B

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[neonixie-l] Another simple Passive IR clock control alternative...

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

Pretty much all my clocks have some form of passive IR control to avoid 
burning tubes when no one is looking... In many cases the PIR control is 
accomplished with modifications to the controller board, but some of the 
clocks are more of a pain to modify than others. In particular, on one of 
my small VFD clocks it's difficult to modify the base board to remove 
filament voltage and I'm tired of replacing failed VFD tubes on this unit.

I just came across low cost PIR power switches used to control the DC 
supplied to LED strips and similar lights. The switch I used is rated for 5 
- 24 VDC at 5 amps. It's available with fast delivery time from Amazon and 
for a lot lower cost on ebay, but with very long delivery time. Here's the 
Amazon part for the impatient among us:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LEEWBN4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8=1

I'm using the PIR switch in three configurations at the moment...

   - An unmodified PIR switch in series with the 5V wall wart powering an 
   old USB hub. I added a jumper internal to the hub to supply power to the 
   USB ports with no computer connection. I also wired the red hub LED to 
   light when power is applied. The stock coaxial connectors matched the hub 
   connectors.




   - An unmodified PIR switch in series with the 12V wall wart powering a 
   clock. As with the USB hub above, the stock coaxial connectors happened to 
   be the proper size.
   - I modified the wired connections to a PIR switch so that it's in 
   series with power lines on a USB extension cable. The data lines are 
   disconnected and the extension cable powers a clock running off a plug-in 
   5V USB power cube.






Note that I also modified the PR module by changing a cap to extend the 
power-on time when motion is detected. Stock time is adjustable from a few 
seconds up to about 6 minutes. As modified, the on-time ranges from 2 to 39 
minutes.

Change the circled cap to a 0.1 uF/0603 part for the longer on-time.


Enjoy...

Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: 7971 nixie tube problem

[Robert L]

Complete 73 issue from July 76... See here:

https://ia902601.us.archive.org/31/items/73-magazine-1976-07/07_July_1976.pdf

73 de Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Tester & Healer for IN18 Nixie Tubes

[Robert L]

OK... I'll play...
First, I'm also a fan of Marcin's testers and have been very appreciative 
of his excellent customer support!

The design below came about following a conversation with Jeff W... My 
thanks to him for the impetus to do (overdo?) the project! I also find 
built-in meters to be very handy.

Current meter below is a 0-999 mA ebay part with the stock 0.050 ohm 
current shunt replaced by a 0.50 ohm part. Scale is now 0-99.9 mA. Decimal 
point is left to the user's imagination.

Volt meter is downstream of the re-purposed current test toggle switch. 
Meter now reads the HV supply output voltage or the tube anode voltage 
depending on the position of the switch.

Current control is by an active current limiter... Current will stay 
constant (or be limited) if a tube heals while running. First image below 
shows the meters reading 2.8 mA tube current with the HV supply at 170 VDC. 
The tube below sustains glow at 139 VDC downstream of the limiter circuit 
as shown on the second photo... button caps were put back on switches after 
these photos were taken. Meter holes cut with the vertical mill at work, 
squared off with a small file. PCB SMD reflow was lead free with a Whizoo 
reflow toaster oven. Power supply needs addressed with a +12 VDC to +/- 5 
VDC floating output switching supply module at the lower right of the pcb.



 




 







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[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Tester & Healer for IN18 Nixie Tubes

[Robert L]

>
> OK... I'll play... 
>

First, I'm also a fan of Marcin's testers and have been very appreciative 
of his excellent customer support!

The design below came about following a conversation with Jeff W... My 
thanks to him for the impetus to do (overdo?) the project! I also find 
built-in meters to be very handy.

Current meter below is a 0-999 mA ebay part with the stock 0.050 ohm 
current shunt replaced by a 0.50 ohm part. Scale is now 0-99.9 mA. Decimal 
point is left to the user's imagination.

 

Volt meter is downstream of the re-purposed current test toggle switch. 
Meter now reads the supply HV output voltage or the tube anode voltage 
depending on the position of the switch.

 

Current control is by an active current limiter... Current will stay 
constant (or be limited) if a tube heals while running. Image below shows 
the meters reading 2.8 mA tube current with the HV supply at 170 VDC. The 
tube below sustains glow at 139 VDC downstream of the limiter circuit... 
button caps were put back on switches after these photos were taken. Holes 
cut with the vertical mill at work, squared off with a small file. PCB SMD 
reflow was lead free with a Whizoo reflow toaster oven. Power supply needs 
addressed with a +12 to +/- 5V floating output switching supply module at 
the lower right of the PCB.

  

  
   



 


  

  





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[neonixie-l] Re: OT: Eagle is now subscription-based

[Robert L]

An example of support for the KiCAD community:

https://home.cern/about/updates/2015/02/kicad-software-gets-cern-treatment


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[neonixie-l] Re: OT: Eagle is now subscription-based

[Robert L]

One more happy KiCAD user... more than ample for my hobby scale projects of 
no more than a few sheets. Learning curve was not steep and have been happy 
with both schematic capture and layout.

Using heavier weight commercial tools at work... prefer KiCAD for most 
everything I'm doing. Especially like the licensing terms with KiCAD.

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: OT: Lateral thinking: Cheap SMT reflow oven...

[Robert L]

Another ControlLeo user here. Have built two of them... one for home use, 
one on a bench at work.

Achieving excellent results with only a small sensitivity to placement of 
the temp sense thermistor. I use lead free paste for reflow, leaded solder 
for re-work.

Toying with upgrading my controller to the model 3, but not a compelling 
reason to do so. As I said, getting fine results with the rev 2 controller 
and a stock profile. The money saved will offset the cost of the ultrafine 
Metcal wands and tips I recently added :-)

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: A finished in-14 nixie clock from a beginner

[Robert L]

Very very nice!

Knob, buttons and toggle are nice details as well!

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[neonixie-l] Re: A simple mod for Passive IR sensors... A toggle switch setting clock to: ON / PIR-controlled / Off

[Robert L]

A friend made a good point by private e-mail... The mod as originally shown 
will potentially place +5 or GND directly on a processor GPIO pin. Not a 
good idea...

All of my devices have a series resistor on their PIR input pins - 
typically 10k. In most cases there are ESD clamps on my designs as well. A 
pull-down to assure no false triggering is also present on some of my 
clocks. One or more of these are quite possibly not the case for devices 
you are using.

For this reason, consider adding a series resistor on the output of the 
modified PIR detector downstream of the switch. Look at the input circuit 
for any device you are driving with the modified PIR module and decide what 
value of output resistors on the module make sense for your device. 
Consider current driven into the receiving device - especially through 
input protection diodes. Also watch out for voltage dividers that may be 
formed with input networks on the target device - as an example, there 
might be a pull-down or pull-up on the connected device input to prevent 
false triggering. 2K into a 10k pull-down meets minimum voltage high and 
low levels on one of my clocks. (Try sending PIR and true RS-232 down a 
shared cable... The cap coupling from GPS data edges in the cable can be 
enough to trigger a PIR input without a modest pull-down. Ask me how I 
know?)

B

>

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[neonixie-l] Re: A simple mod for Passive IR sensors... A toggle switch setting clock to: ON / PIR-controlled / Off

[Robert L]

A friend made a good point by private e-mail... The mod as originally shown 
will potentially place +5 or GND directly on a processor GPIO pin. Not a 
good idea...

All of my devices have a series resistor on their PIR input pins - 
typically 10k. In most cases there are ESD clamps on my designs as well. A 
pull-down to assure no false triggering is also present on some of my 
clocks. One or more of these are quite possibly not the case for devices 
you are using.

For this reason, consider adding a series resistor on the output of the 
modified PIR detector downstream of the switch. Look at the input circuit 
for any device you are driving with the modified PIR module and decide what 
value of output resistors on the module make sense for your device. 
Consider current driven into the receiving device - especially through 
input protection diodes. Also watch out for voltage dividers that may be 
formed with input networks on the target device - as an example, there 
might be a pull-down or pull-up on the connected device input to prevent 
false triggering. 2K into a 10k pull-down meets minimum voltage high and 
low levels on one of my clocks. (Try sending PIR and true RS-232 down a 
shared cable... The cap coupling from GPS data edges in the cable can be 
enough to trigger a PIR input without a modest pull-down. Ask me how I 
know?)

Rule one - Ain't nothing simple...

(A digression for those interested...
   Rule 2: If it hasn't been tested, it doesn't work.
   Rule 3: If it hasn't been documented, it hasn't been tested. (True in 
several regulated industries...)
   Rule 4: The lab IS NOT the real world.)

That darn rule 1...

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: A simple mod for Passive IR sensors... A toggle switch setting clock to: ON / PIR-controlled / Off

[Robert L]

A friend made a good point... This mod as originally shown will potentially 
place +5 or GND directly on a processor GPIO pin. Not a good idea...

All of my devices have a series resistor on their PIR input pins - 
typically 10k. In most cases there are ESD clamps on my designs as well. 
This is quite possibly not the case on devices you are using.

For this reason, I'm adding an optional 2k resistor on the output of the 
mod schematic. Look at the circuit for any device you are driving with the 
modified PIR module and decide what value of output resistor makes sense 
for your device. Consider current driven into the receiving device - 
especially through input protection diodes. Also watch out for voltage 
dividers that may be formed with input networks on the target device.

Rule one - Ain't nothing simple...

(A digression for those interested...
   Rule 2: If it hasn't been tested it doesn't work.
   Rule 3: If it hasn't been documented, it hasn't been tested.
   Rule 4: The lab IS NOT the real world.)

That darn rule 1...

B


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[neonixie-l] Re: PV Electronics R568 Clock Project With Black R|Z568M Nixie Tubes

[Robert L]

Hi Edward,

Check out Autodesk Fusion 360... It's a very powerful 3D CAD/CAM program 
that I've recently started using. The learning curve is modest and there is 
excellent support from Autodesk as well as a large user community. Youtube 
videos and such...

Fusion 360 will also support laser cutting as the first step in this 
tool-chain: Fusion 360 > Slicer for Fusion 360 > Inkscape... I've 
successfully used this tool chain with Ponoko.

All of the design tools are free for makers... Autodesk charges for Fusion 
360, but not for makers and very small business users.

For output from Fusion 360 to DXF or DWG 
format: 
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/How-to-export-a-design-in-Fusion-360.html

Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] A simple mod for Passive IR sensors... A toggle switch setting clock to: ON / PIR-controlled / Off

[Robert L]

Hi folks,

This is a *VERY* simple modification I'm making to the PIR sensors on my 
clocks. I was going to add this as a response to Edwards build thread but 
thought it might be of more general interest... The mod is simple and I'm 
finding it quite useful.

I've added a center-off SPDT toggle switch on my Passive IR sensor modules 
with positions for "On", "PIR controlled" and "Off". The switch allows me 
to put clocks in my shop space to sleep when I'm working for a time with my 
back to the clocks... allows me to easily test PIR response on controllers, 
etc. 

See the attached photo for the details. Label added for clarity.

Note that the PV Electronics PIR module case top piece shown has an extra 
hole added above the second PIR module trim pot to allow me to adjust the 
module hold-on time. I've retrofit some of my clocks with HV power supply 
disable lines under PIR control. These modified clocks need the PIR module 
to control on-time when activated. I also change a cap from 10 nF to 100 nF 
on the PIR module I use extending the max hold-on time to about 42 
minutes... the cap is connected to pin 4 of the BIS0001 IC. Modules differ 
in layout so I won't post a photo showing the cap location... The BIS0001 
data sheet details the function of this cap.

Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: LIXIE DISPLAYS

[Robert L]

> The Lixie displays had been out of stock for a while, but I requested 
> notification from the Tindie site for when they were available. I ordered a 
> set within minutes of receiving the back in stock notification a few days 
> ago. They were again out of stock shortly after my order.
>

The displays arrived yesterday... very well packed and very nicely built. 
Have not yet started playing with them, though have the support libraries 
for Arduino loaded.

I was a bit hesitant to order based on the sellers history, but the Tindie 
site has what appears to be a pretty solid guarantee.

Best regards,
Bob


 

 

 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Four NL-8091 on ebay

[Robert L]

Tulip mania or tulipomania... Check out Wikipedia.

Just woke up thinking of this and watched the last minute or two of the 
auction. 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Four NL-8091 on ebay

[Robert L]

I keep thinking of tulips... 



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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

Michael - Thanks for the comments! I do like the IN-17, it's just too small 
if they will be used for both the buddy tube and seconds.

I have some 6091 which would be a nice choice for the seconds...

As far as long life, the 7011 tubes will not be run often and certainly not 
when there's no one there to appreciate them! Direct drive as well - no 
multiplexing.

Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

I'll look into other tubes... Will also want a buddy tube for the 10 hours 
place. Was forgetting about cathode poisoning prevention and would want to 
cycle all digits for this.

As I said, this will evolve for some while before any material is cut!

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

OK... I think I know what I want to do. A clock! Go figure...  
 

Probably just hours and minutes with the 7011 tubes as hours and smaller 
tubes such as Z5600M or B-6091 for minutes.


As Paul A. suggests above, with hours on the 7011 tubes, only 05:xx and 
06:xx are missing digits. I'd include a smaller IN-17 or such tucked in to 
the side of the one 7011 to fill in the missing 5 and 6 digits. The IN-17 
would only light when the big tube is missing a necessary 5 or 6. Have to 
make a physical model of this and see how it would look... A friend points 
out that too many tube types just makes a visual mess. Too much size 
variation also not so good.


With the available digits, hours will display as:   *1, 2, 3, 4, *5*, *6*, 
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12*
*12* :  *37All good digits.*

  *5**:  40Leading zero suppression, 5 missing and filled in by the 
IN-17.*

 

Might be pretty nice! Would likely use plex for the clock housing so that 
the bodies of the 7011 tubes are visible complete with masking tape and 
grease pencil(?)... Did I mention that there's a small bit of grease pencil 
on the inside front of one tube. These *have *to be prototypes.

 

I've attached a file showing an IN-17 tucked in beside a 7011. IN-17 may be 
too small. So, onward with sketches... this post just suggests my general 
direction and I expect the idea to evolve for a fair while before any 
material is cut.


Many thanks everyone for your ideas on how to recover the missing digits!


Best regards,

Bob

 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

Finally a few free minutes at the end of the day... Cap meter results 
compelling for open digits.

All pins on both tubes measured with respect to the anode... 

> Pins that are not connected per the Burroughs data sheet and dark digits 
all measure ~3 pF or less with one N/C pin somewhat higher reading 3.7 pF.

> Glowing digits measure 6 pF or more with none higher than 7.5 pF.

I'm now accepting that the dark digits are disconnected from their pins.

All measurements in pF:

Pin Function Tube 9 Tube 10 
1 NC 3.1 3.7 
2 A n/a n/a 
3 K0 7.5 6.8 
4 K9 6.8 6.4 
5 K8 7.2 7.2 
6 K7 6 5.9 
7 K6 2.8 2.7 
8 NC 2.6 2.5 
9 K5 2.4 3 
10 K4 2.8 6.4 
11 K3 3.2 7.3 
12 K2 6.9 7 
13 K17 6.9 6.1 
14 NC 2.3 2.6 
I remain happy to have these tubes and am thinking about how to best 
display them...

Onward!

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

>
> Will check into the heater/giver idea... Need to better understand this! 
>

Have also thought about a glass crack sealer, but the crack is less a crack 
and more a flaked off piece of glass. Probably happened decades ago with a 
glancing blow. I think better to leave the tubes in as-found condition! 

Suspect a cap meter will be an easy first check for connection to the 
element wire... will try this simpler test before wandering down the TDR 
path!


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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

I mentioned TDR earlier in the thread and actually was not completely 
joking... Will probably give it a try over the weekend...

I can send a pulse with a sharp edge into the electrode and see how long it 
takes for a reflection to come back. Fast return = short wire attached, 
longer wait for return = longer wire attached. Have used this technique on 
circuits and resolved a few mm of trace length.

Works pretty well with a good counter.

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

Using a couple of Keithley Source Measure Units in series as a high voltage 
supply. (I have a nice bench at work!) These let me go up to 420 volts at 
100 mA with the pair in series.

I took normal polarity up to about 330 volts measured across the tube at 15 
mA this afternoon... no series resistor as I'm programming the SMU to set 
the current limit. Zero glow on the element, intense and quite isolated 
glow down near the tube base. I don't want to run at these levels for more 
than a few seconds at a time.

I'll try reverse polarity tomorrow... 

Many thanks to all of you for the ideas!

Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

Funny you should mention a plasma globe... I have one arriving tomorrow. 
Was thinking of one as a quick and dirty check for gas inside theenvelope.

I'll try running one or more of the unresponsive segments for awhile... Not 
optimistic as it looks like glow just near the tube base. Not a hint of any 
glow on the element proper. 240 V measured across the tube at 10 mA, but 
absolutely no glow on the element. Have you seen something like this 
recover?

I'm used to seeing at least a partial element glow with the glowing area 
maybe moving around a bit... Not used to completely dark elements.

Anyway, to be continued!

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

"Will peak in with a stereo microscope later tonight."

No need for the scope - can see the tip of the pin glowing down at the 
base. A very small and somewhat out of position decimal point?

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

Started at 300 VDC for initial testing... The high voltage to help with 
poisoned elements or getting ignition if low gas pressure.

Now running 200 V with 12k series resistor and the tube self limits at 5.3 
mA on the "8" digit.

The small glowing spot at the base for digit "6" with ~2 mA tube current 
and the supply running at the programmed 200 V across the tube strongly 
suggests an open at the base between the pin and digit structure. Will peak 
in with a stereo microscope later tonight.

OK... How about driving with a fast edge and using a counter or fast scope 
to make a Time Domain Reflectometer measurement for the length of the wire?

B

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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

Some of the missing digits have very small hot spots near the base... Power 
supply in current limit. Not going to risk burning internal connections!

One or two show as open with no measurable current flow... Testing at 300 
VDC, 12K series and backup of a current limit on the HV supply on my bench. 
These numbers per the 7011 preliminary specs. I'm guessing these are 
prototypes of the 7011... and thinking the tape was applied by a tech in 
the Burroughs lab. The truth? No idea!

Will probably make a two digit random number generator, but I do like your 
idea of a 2-digit clock with a small nixie display echoing the large 
display so missing digits can be read off the small tubes. Obviously only 
drive teh big tubes on working digits.

Open to other suggestions!

B

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Re: [neonixie-l] Super quiet nixie PSU

[Robert L]

>
> Hi John,
>
 

> This appears to be transformer T1 referenced in the 250 VDC supplies:
>
 
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/eaton/CTX210605-R/513-1121-ND/667400?WT.srch=1=CjwKCAjw387JBRBPEiwA5FfUyxgNhpPEpvf9GerY5U0bPH8-79L9pyZ_1q99CBLjLvq7-DWh248tEhoCywUQAvD_BwE

$6.50/ea and in stock.

And the inductor L1:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/eaton/CTX250-4-R/513-1206-1-ND/953606

$7.11 in stock. 

Worth taking a look...

Best regards,
Bob

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[neonixie-l] Re: Well I tried, big tubes on ebay this am

[Robert L]

Yup... I'm here... And will report when they arrive and I have a chance to 
test them. I don't usually gamble, but these are unlike any I'd seen and 
seemed worth the risk. Fingers crossed for at least one working tube.

Stand by for a report later this week...

Anticipa

 tion!

B

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