Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Tue, 2002-06-11 at 06:41, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:25:28 +0100, John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I perfer netscape, but cannot be bothered to install it. So I use kmail, the composer has limited character set usage,(I do not mean fonts) no undelines ,bolds,etc etc., which I surely miss. You want the ability to write HTML e-mail? I doubt this will ever happen in Kmail. HTML e-mail is an abomination and should never have been invented. Standard, plain text e-mail is far more secure (no scripting, etc.), smaller and faster. Why are M$ Outlook and Outlook Express the only apps that can transmit and activate e-mail virii and worms? Because they incorporate rubbish features like HTML mail. Kmail does the sensible thing and only implements read (not write) support for HTML mail. For more info, take a look at http://www.betips.net/etc/evilmail.html -- Sridhar Dhanapalan Yes, Sridhar, you have nailed it. There is a time and place for html, and email is not it. Kind of like using a backhoe to weed your garden. I side with you and all the others who join in the denouncement of the heinous html email. :) L8r, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Sunday 30 June 2002 02:32 am, you wrote: Yes, Sridhar, you have nailed it. There is a time and place for html, and email is not it. Kind of like using a backhoe to weed your garden. I side with you and all the others who join in the denouncement of the heinous html email. :) L8r, LX Add my name to that list as well! grin -- /\ DarkLord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
Ronald J. Hall wrote: Add my name to that list as well! grin And mine. I hate HTML e-mails and tell everyone I know to use plain text. -- Live long and prosper! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
dfox wrote: Randy Kramer wrote: And, if spammers wanted to reach people who have specified their preference not to receive HTML / XML mail, they'd have to send plain Spammers could care less. Most of the spam I get now is all html or in chinese. They don't even care if the person on the other end can read the message. That's wonderful -- anybody set to receive no HTML will also receive no spam!! Randy Kramer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
or, you can just set a filter to /dev/null for any mail with html or a href? yes, no, nes pa? On Wednesday 12 June 2002 06:26 am, you wrote: Linux Maniac wrote: Maybe there should be an other email format, let's call it nextmail. It would be xml based and would NOT be compatible with the current email system, even the adress would be different like newbie*linux.com. You'd have a choice to use wichever you like... hmmm Even I don't like my own idea :-) I do! Then email systems should be setup to route all that new mail (and any current HTML) mail, only to people that indicate their willingness/desire to accept it. (That would include spam.) It doesn't solve all the bandwidth problems, but it would solve individual's personal download problems. And, if spammers wanted to reach people who have specified their preference not to receive HTML / XML mail, they'd have to send plain text. If they did that, we'd still have spam, but initially not as much, and at least not using as much bandwidth. If I ran an ISP I'd seriously think about doing that -- filter the mail on HTML, and send HTML only to customers who wanted it. Aside: (And not picking on Linux Maniac in particular) Why don't more people edit emails they are responding to? Keeping the entire thread of an email on each post has got to be as big a waste of bandwidth as HTML. And not only of electronic bandwidth, but also of reader's mental bandwidth (and mine is getting smaller all the time ;-) Randy Kramer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Tuesday 11 June 2002 22:57, you wrote: Well, all this seems to be telling me that I cannot expect or hope to ever get a good quality emailer from Mandrake. Plain text means lack of scope, one uniform font, one uniform font size , no resizing of sections of text, no bold type, no font colour changes, no undertining, no italic(though I do not like italic), no bullet lists, no number lists, no decreasing indents, a pity really. As I say, if that is what you want, ok, thats fine by me, but it's not what I want, and nor do I believe the world out there. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 12 June 2002 08:54 am, John Richard Smith did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: On Tuesday 11 June 2002 22:57, you wrote: Well, all this seems to be telling me that I cannot expect or hope to ever get a good quality emailer from Mandrake. if good to you means sending html, unless netscape still does, your out of luck. do you want to be hated on email lists? all the html senders are, linux list and non alike. i still don't understand why good to you means too big, bandwidth hogging, silly features and increased spam joined with poor security, but hey to each their own. - -- Nimda virus affects Linux! My linux boxes have had their bandwidth chewed up by four thousand Nimda servers infected with IIS. shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9B8qqBwq+ZwvIN/oRAkH7AJ9RjsOjyhJ7BtU6j9brGWMQTWCWbACfQ+Wa 3EUDk1oE0A6wO0G8OHI42nk= =x+WV -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Wednesday 12 June 2002 07:12 pm, Charlie wrote: June 12, 2002 04:26 pm, shane wrote: if good to you means sending html, unless netscape still does, your out of luck. do you want to be hated on email lists? all the html senders are, linux list and non alike. i still don't understand why good to you means too big, bandwidth hogging, silly features and increased spam joined with poor security, but hey to each their own. While 99.99% of the e-mail that I send is plain text; I still do occasionally send an HTML message. Most of the time it's for such stupid things as birthday cards, or other special event greeting that I've constructed for a friend; but I always send them a plain text warning first to expect html in the next message, and I won't send it if they ask me not to. I do it mostly 'cause I hate generic greetings from card sites that exist only to mine e-mail addresses and spam the unholy hell out of everyone that ever got such a card. I'd rather send an html message once a year to someone than send them a greeting from sites like that. If someone requests 'don't send me any html' I'll usually park the card on web space that I have rights to and send them a link. Only happened once. BTW; you can send all of the HTML from Mozilla (Mail) Messenger that you like. You can even pre-set the format for anyone in the address book that prefers anything other than plain text. Duckin' outta the line of fire now. Charlie: You're cool. There's a huge difference between sending someone a personalized HTML birthday greeting, and posting in HTML to a widely-read mailing list. Of course, if you had cared enough to send the very best, you would have sent a Hallmark. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Tuesday 11 June 2002 00:34, you wrote: On Monday 10 June 2002 04:39 pm, s wrote: On Monday 10 June 2002 03:37 pm, Gerald Waugh wrote: On Monday 10 June 2002 11:28 am, Bulloved wrote: snip What Linux email clients do people on the list prefer? I perfer netscape, but cannot be bothered to install it. So I use kmail, the composer has limited character set usage,(I do not mean fonts) no undelines ,bolds,etc etc., which I surely miss. I live in hope kmail will improve. cause otherwise it's ok. I find setting the filters troublesome, especially when more than one is present. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
Using html email is somewhat like asking to borrow my phone and calling Afhganistan. Rude at best. (I learned that right here last year) Lee On Tuesday 11 June 2002 10:17 am, you wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:16:00 +0100, John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 11 June 2002 11:41, you wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:25:28 +0100, John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I perfer netscape, but cannot be bothered to install it. So I use kmail, the composer has limited character set usage,(I do not mean fonts) no undelines ,bolds,etc etc., which I surely miss. You want the ability to write HTML e-mail? I doubt this will ever happen in Kmail. HTML e-mail is an abomination and should never have been invented. Standard, plain text e-mail is far more secure (no scripting, etc.), smaller and faster. Why are M$ Outlook and Outlook Express the only apps that can transmit and activate e-mail virii and worms? Because they incorporate rubbish features like HTML mail. Kmail does the sensible thing and only implements read (not write) support for HTML mail. For more info, take a look at http://www.betips.net/etc/evilmail.html I just wonder whether that is really is true. Linux OS's were quite happy to distribute Netscape with full HTML capability , and still does. So Netscape is an insecure linux app then. Well, it isn't nearly as bad as Outlook/Outlook Express. It handles HTML and some JavaScript, but not VBScript or ActiveX (which are _really_ bad). But you do have a point. For years, Netscape was included in distributions simply because it was the only decent Web browser for GNU/Linux. I know for sure that Mandrake were never comfortable distributing it, and they were waiting for Mozilla to mature so that they could dump it. With Mandrake 8.2, this has been achieved. Tell me, why do so few e-mail apps allow HTML mail to be written? There is a reason for that, you know. In anycase the emails without character, merely plain text looks awful. It makes the presentation look cheap and nasty. That's all right for Readme files , no one cares, but an email is becoming the standard means of communication around the world, and you therefore condem Linux users to poor looking text and presentation. No finess. people want nice looking fonts and character sets. I think kmail would be well advised to consider adding write and well as read HTML , it is the users right to decide what they want , Surely that should be the users choice, not the distro's dictat. Yeah, people also want an OS that doesn't require a login and has no user permissions. If we gave them that, GNU/Linux would be just as terribly insecure as Windows. There is some trade-off between user friendliness and security. Given the choice, I would take security and privacy over user friendliness almost every time. If you want pretty colours with bells and whistles, and you don't care about who has your credit card number and personal data, go and use Windows. Sorry if I sound rude, but that is the truth. Have you read the link I gave above? Here it is again: http://www.betips.net/etc/evilmail.html. After reading it, read these: http://www.winterspeak.com/columns/080801.html http://www.kamat.com/vikas/blog.php?date=8/10/2001 http://email.about.com/library/weekly/aa121100a.htm There are plenty of reasons why you shouldn't use HTML e-mail. Not only is it horribly insecure since it allows the embedding of scripts and other undesirable things, it also takes up far more space than plain text e-mail. Think about this: _billions_ of e-mail messages whizz around the Internet all the time, and that number is increasing exponentially. Think of all the bandwidth that is taken up to transmit all those, and think of the space they take up in people's inboxes (and remember, many people have inboxes of only a few MB) and archives. If all this e-mail was HTML, they would be many times larger, and the Internet would be brought to a standstill due to overload (I am _not_ exaggerating). Furthermore, the enhanced capabilities of HTML would encourage people to include pictures and multimedia in their messages, further inflating the size and bandwidth consumed. Now, imagine the average Internet user, working off a dial-up modem and downloading at 4Kb/s (I know the maximum is 56Kb/s but very few people get anywhere near that). This probably describes over 95% of Internet users today. It would take _much_ longer for this person to download an HTML mail versus a plain text one. Many people pay for their Internet access by the minute, or by the megabyte. If you're still unconvinced, search the list archives for HTML mail, HTML e-mail or some variant thereof. There have been some lively discussions on this topic in the past. Besides, what can't be said in plain text e-mail? Do you lack the necessary communication
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Tuesday 11 June 2002 15:17, you wrote: Besides, what can't be said in plain text e-mail? Do you lack the necessary communication skills to use simple words? Did Tolkien write using fancy fonts and colours? My point is that HTML mail is simply unnecessary. Do you want /italics/, _underlining_ or *bold* fonts? Do you want a smiley face :-) ? It all can be done in plain text. Plain text is all right as far as it goes, I don't mind using it for say Newbie, or just sending an order to some sales person, but 99% of the world traffic in emails is HTML. Yes it is. and I for one would not like to have my hands tied behind my back by not being able to use it. Suppose you had to email your curriculum vitae to a prospective employer and you emailer cannot send HTML your document looks silly and gives the imprssion you don't care. It says you are not even prepared to take that little bit of extra time and care to make a nice presentation, or that your emailer is not much, and you ought to do something about it. It is not only that, emails are the absolute front runner by far ,by way of an adversiement for linux. Every day many emails get sent around the world people receive and send in HTML but you can always tell it came from a linux user it's plain text. It doesn't say much of a positive message does it. It doesn't say to the world , well here's and example of what I would like to aspire to. It portays Linux users as second best, also runs, not up with the main streem. Now you may want that, absolutely fine, that is your right, ahmen, I for one would champion the right of the individual to do and be whatever they want to be so long as it is not harmful to others as a criminal would be, but most people will willingly accept that sending and receiveing HTML is just fine. I would like that choice to be mine. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:46:08 +0100 John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 11 June 2002 15:17, you wrote: Besides, what can't be said in plain text e-mail? Do you lack the necessary communication skills to use simple words? Did Tolkien write using fancy fonts and colours? My point is that HTML mail is simply unnecessary. Do you want /italics/, _underlining_ or *bold* fonts? Do you want a smiley face :-) ? It all can be done in plain text. Plain text is all right as far as it goes, I don't mind using it for say Newbie, or just sending an order to some sales person, but 99% of the world traffic in emails is HTML. Yes it is. and I for one would not like to have my hands tied behind my back by not being able to use it. Suppose you had to email your curriculum vitae to a prospective employer and you emailer cannot send HTML your document looks silly and gives the imprssion you don't care. It says you are not even prepared to take that little bit of extra time and care to make a nice presentation, or that your emailer is not much, and you ought to do something about it.snip My e-mail client has a feature that allows me to attach documents to my message. So, if I want to send a PDF or HTML or whatever type of file, I just hit the attach button, locate it, and send it off! Also, when I was job hunting about a year ago, everything I read recommended creating a PLAIN TEXT version of your CV to use as a sig. The rationale is that the people reading the cv don't give a hoot about formatting, they just want to weed out people based on qualifications and experience, not document formatting. -- Todd Slater If the Aborigine drafted an I.Q. test, all of Western civilization would presumably flunk it. (Stanley Garn) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 11 June 2002 6:46 pm, John Richard Smith wrote: Plain text is all right as far as it goes, I don't mind using it for say Newbie, or just sending an order to some sales person, but 99% of the world traffic in emails is HTML. Yes it is. and I for one would not like to have my hands tied behind my back by not being able to use it. Suppose you had to email your curriculum vitae to a prospective employer and you emailer cannot send HTML your document looks silly and gives the imprssion you don't care. It says you are not even prepared to take that little bit of extra time and care to make a nice presentation, or that your emailer is not much, and you ought to do something about it. It is not only that, emails are the absolute front runner by far ,by way of an adversiement for linux. Every day many emails get sent around the world people receive and send in HTML but you can always tell it came from a linux user it's plain text. It doesn't say much of a positive message does it. It doesn't say to the world , well here's and example of what I would like to aspire to. It portays Linux users as second best, also runs, not up with the main streem. Now you may want that, absolutely fine, that is your right, ahmen, I for one would champion the right of the individual to do and be whatever they want to be so long as it is not harmful to others as a criminal would be, but most people will willingly accept that sending and receiveing HTML is just fine. I would like that choice to be mine. I'm sorry, but very little of what you've said is correct in my experience. i. In recruiting a CV would never be asked for or expected in HTML. It might just be acceptable as a Word document attached to an email, but I would normally ask for it to be printed or handwritten and a covering basic details form to be filled in by hand. (Forcing people to write something other than a signature with a pen, then put an envelope in the post, puts off a surprising proportion of timewasters ...). ii. Companies I've worked with, having been bitten in the past, tend to be brutal about various aspects of email. Mine offers 10MB of IMAP storage per user for email so attachments are whisked pretty quickly off the server and HTML emails are not welcome (a short HTML email produced by Outlook takes about 7KB, whereas a text email takes roughly 2KB). Anyone who's tried to find anything in archived Outlook email databases will know that the less that needs to be archived the better. Other companies, because of worries about viruses and policies regarding inappropriate access, strip HTML, including attached pictures, URLs from text emails and even go to the lengths of forwarding all email with attachments to a (human) security officer. So, if you spend ages formatting an HTML email and send it to someone in a company, you're likely to be wasting your time as whoosh! that formatting will be removed before it gets to the recipient. iii. The coup de grace is delivered by SpamAssassin (www.spamassassin.org) which examines an email and applies a big list of tests - derived from analysing other emails, and some of which can be negatively weighted - to determine whether it looks like spam or not. An email has to accumulate 5 points before being deemed spam; 'HTML-only mail, with no text version' gets 3.2 points which, as far as I can tell, is one of the biggest individual weightings. Quote (from a particularly shameless spam): SPAM: -- Start SpamAssassin results -- SPAM: This mail is probably spam. The original message has been altered SPAM: so you can recognise or block similar unwanted mail in future. SPAM: See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. SPAM: Content analysis details: (25.9 hits, 5 required) SPAM: Hit! (0.5 points) Subject has an exclamation mark SPAM: Hit! (1.6 points) BODY: Contains word 'AMAZING' in all-caps SPAM: Hit! (0.5 points) BODY: Contains word 'profits' in all-caps SPAM: Hit! (2.4 points) BODY: No such thing as a free lunch (2) SPAM: Hit! (2.3 points) BODY: List removal information SPAM: Hit! (2.1 points) BODY: Claims compliance with senate bill 1618 SPAM: Hit! (1.9 points) BODY: List removal information SPAM: Hit! (1.7 points) BODY: Claims compliance with SPAM regulations SPAM: Hit! (1.5 points) BODY: Asks you to click below SPAM: Hit! (1.5 points) BODY: Claims This is not spam SPAM: Hit! (1.1 points) BODY: Talks about bulk email SPAM: Hit! (1.0 point) BODY: No such thing as a free lunch (3) SPAM: Hit! (0.7 points) BODY: Talks about email marketing SPAM: Hit! (0.4 points) BODY: Claims to be legitimate email SPAM: Hit! (0.1 points) BODY: Claims compliance with SPAM regulations SPAM: Hit! (0.5 points) BODY: A WHOLE LINE OF YELLING DETECTED SPAM: Hit! (1.3 points) URI: Includes a link to a spammer email address SPAM: Hit! (-0.5 points) BODY: HTML mail with non-white
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
Hey all, I just installed Ximian Gnome last night and noticed that the installer now has an option to install only Evolution. Therefore, if you're interested in using Evolution and want the most recent version without having to install all of Ximian Gnome and without waiting for Mandrake to release an updated RPM, just do it this way. I see people have commented that Evolution has some bugs. From my experience 1.05 seems to fix everything I had noticed in previous versions. One hitch though, you're best off deleting all your Evolution preferences before starting with the new version. The reason I say this is because the problem with Evolution not trashing deleted messages on exit remains in 1.05 unless you start clean. Then it's gone. I don't know why. I'd like to figure out if there's a single file you can delete to fix this. Hey, if anyone knows fill me in. ;) Vince Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:46:08 +0100, John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 11 June 2002 15:17, you wrote: Besides, what can't be said in plain text e-mail? Do you lack the necessary communication skills to use simple words? Did Tolkien write using fancy fonts and colours? My point is that HTML mail is simply unnecessary. Do you want /italics/, _underlining_ or *bold* fonts? Do you want a smiley face :-) ? It all can be done in plain text. Plain text is all right as far as it goes, I don't mind using it for say Newbie, or just sending an order to some sales person, but 99% of the world traffic in emails is HTML. Yes it is. No, it isn't. Do yo have any statistics to back that? I'm willing to bet that your figures are off by a long shot. and I for one would not like to have my hands tied behind my back by not being able to use it. Suppose you had to email your curriculum vitae to a prospective employer and you emailer cannot send HTML your document looks silly and gives the imprssion you don't care. It says you are not even prepared to take that little bit of extra time and care to make a nice presentation, or that your emailer is not much, and you ought to do something about it. Make an attachment. It's not hard, and it's exactly the same as using the 'send in plain text and HTML' setting in some mail clients. It is not only that, emails are the absolute front runner by far ,by way of an adversiement for linux. Every day many emails get sent around the world people receive and send in HTML but you can always tell it came from a linux user it's plain text. Huh? I'm sorry, but I am increasingly getting the feeling that you are just making sweeping generalisations without having any real clue as to what you're talking about. Most mail clients, whether they be client or server (e.g. webmail) based, on Windows or another OS (GNU/Linux, Mac, BeOS, etc.), do _not_ allow the creation of HTML mail. Just because someone doesn't use Netscape or LookOut, it doesn't automatically mean they're using Linux. Your presumption is simply wrong. It doesn't say much of a positive message does it. It doesn't say to the world , well here's and example of what I would like to aspire to. It portays Linux users as second best, also runs, not up with the main streem. Now you may want that, absolutely fine, that is your right, ahmen, I for one would champion the right of the individual to do and be whatever they want to be so long as it is not harmful to others as a criminal would be, but most people will willingly accept that sending and receiveing HTML is just fine. I would like that choice to be mine. Then go use Netscape -- it does what you need. Why are you complaining? If you want the choice to have e-mail virii execute automatically then you should also go back to Windows. BTW, did you even _read_ the links I gave earlier, or did you just 'conveniently ignore' them? I've given a million-and-one reasons why HTML mail is not a good thing, yet you still continue with the 'I want flashy shiny buttons with glitter and a pony' rant. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan When you say 'I wrote a program that crashed Windows', people just stare at you blankly and say 'Hey, I got those with the system, *for free*'. -- Linus Torvalds Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Tuesday 11 June 2002 01:49 pm, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:46:08 +0100, John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 11 June 2002 15:17, you wrote: Besides, what can't be said in plain text e-mail? Do you lack the necessary communication skills to use simple words? Did Tolkien write using fancy fonts and colours? My point is that HTML mail is simply unnecessary. Do you want /italics/, _underlining_ or *bold* fonts? Do you want a smiley face :-) ? It all can be done in plain text. Plain text is all right as far as it goes, I don't mind using it for say Newbie, or just sending an order to some sales person, but 99% of the world traffic in emails is HTML. Yes it is. No, it isn't. Do yo have any statistics to back that? I'm willing to bet that your figures are off by a long shot. and I for one would not like to have my hands tied behind my back by not being able to use it. Suppose you had to email your curriculum vitae to a prospective employer and you emailer cannot send HTML your document looks silly and gives the imprssion you don't care. It says you are not even prepared to take that little bit of extra time and care to make a nice presentation, or that your emailer is not much, and you ought to do something about it. Make an attachment. It's not hard, and it's exactly the same as using the 'send in plain text and HTML' setting in some mail clients. It is not only that, emails are the absolute front runner by far ,by way of an adversiement for linux. Every day many emails get sent around the world people receive and send in HTML but you can always tell it came from a linux user it's plain text. Huh? I'm sorry, but I am increasingly getting the feeling that you are just making sweeping generalisations without having any real clue as to what you're talking about. Most mail clients, whether they be client or server (e.g. webmail) based, on Windows or another OS (GNU/Linux, Mac, BeOS, etc.), do _not_ allow the creation of HTML mail. Just because someone doesn't use Netscape or LookOut, it doesn't automatically mean they're using Linux. Your presumption is simply wrong. It doesn't say much of a positive message does it. It doesn't say to the world , well here's and example of what I would like to aspire to. It portays Linux users as second best, also runs, not up with the main streem. Now you may want that, absolutely fine, that is your right, ahmen, I for one would champion the right of the individual to do and be whatever they want to be so long as it is not harmful to others as a criminal would be, but most people will willingly accept that sending and receiveing HTML is just fine. I would like that choice to be mine. Then go use Netscape -- it does what you need. Why are you complaining? If you want the choice to have e-mail virii execute automatically then you should also go back to Windows. BTW, did you even _read_ the links I gave earlier, or did you just 'conveniently ignore' them? I've given a million-and-one reasons why HTML mail is not a good thing, yet you still continue with the 'I want flashy shiny buttons with glitter and a pony' rant. Another point, John: If you really want to see something ugly, take a look at an html e-mail with html disabled. You'll see that the message becomes obscured by the format codes to the point of illegibility. It seems to me that defeats the purpose of e-mail, which is to convey information in a clear and easily understood fashion. (I used to have a few examples of those around, but they seem to have been deleted.) -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
Warren Post wrote: I'm not familiar with Calypso, so I can't compare, but I use Evolution 1.0.2, and it certainly is full featured. It's also a bit buggy, so if there's a more recent version grab it. Another full featured client is Aethera, although I haven't tried it. Warren On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 09:28, Bulloved wrote: I'm looking for a feature rich email client. One which I like in the windows environment is Calypso. The closer I could get to the functionality of Calypso the better. Any suggestions? sylpheed-claws. only prob I have with it is i erase *hit the Delete key* sometimes too fast theres no UNDO option :( Sigh -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, John Richard Smith wrote: On Tuesday 11 June 2002 15:17, you wrote: Besides, what can't be said in plain text e-mail? Do you lack the necessary communication skills to use simple words? Did Tolkien write using fancy fonts and colours? My point is that HTML mail is simply unnecessary. Do you want /italics/, _underlining_ or *bold* fonts? Do you want a smiley face :-) ? It all can be done in plain text. Plain text is all right as far as it goes, I don't mind using it for say Newbie, or just sending an order to some sales person, but 99% of the world traffic in emails is HTML. Yes it is. and I for one would not like to have my hands tied behind my back by not being able to use it. Suppose you had to email your curriculum vitae to a prospective employer and you emailer cannot send HTML your document looks silly and gives the imprssion you don't care. It says you are not even prepared to take that little bit of extra time and care to make a nice presentation, or that your emailer is not much, and you ought to do something about it. It is not only that, emails are the absolute front runner by far ,by way of an adversiement for linux. Every day many emails get sent around the world people receive and send in HTML but you can always tell it came from a linux user it's plain text. It doesn't say much of a positive message does it. It doesn't say to the world , well here's and example of what I would like to aspire to. It portays Linux users as second best, also runs, not up with the main streem. Now you may want that, absolutely fine, that is your right, ahmen, I for one would champion the right of the individual to do and be whatever they want to be so long as it is not harmful to others as a criminal would be, but most people will willingly accept that sending and receiveing HTML is just fine. I would like that choice to be mine. John nothing personal here John, and I'm a firm believer in to each his own, but HTML mail just plain sucks. it's the bane of sysadmins everywhere and congress AND the global community at large should pass laws prohibiting the use of it on all platforms. do ya wanna communicate an idea or disseminate some information, just make perrty pictures? (and yes...I spelled pretty that way on perpose. :P ) -- Mark a.k.a. daRcmaTTeR -- If your wife told you NOT to do it there's probably a real good reason! - REGISTERED LINUX USER #186492 Penguinized since 1997 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Tuesday 11 June 2002 11:10, you wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:46:08 +0100 John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 11 June 2002 15:17, you wrote: Besides, what can't be said in plain text e-mail? Do you lack the necessary communication skills to use simple words? Did Tolkien write using fancy fonts and colours? My point is that HTML mail is simply unnecessary. Do you want /italics/, _underlining_ or *bold* fonts? Do you want a smiley face :-) ? It all can be done in plain text. Plain text is all right as far as it goes, I don't mind using it for say Newbie, or just sending an order to some sales person, but 99% of the world traffic in emails is HTML. Yes it is. and I for one would not like to have my hands tied behind my back by not being able to use it. Suppose you had to email your curriculum vitae to a prospective employer and you emailer cannot send HTML your document looks silly and gives the imprssion you don't care. It says you are not even prepared to take that little bit of extra time and care to make a nice presentation, or that your emailer is not much, and you ought to do something about it.snip My e-mail client has a feature that allows me to attach documents to my message. So, if I want to send a PDF or HTML or whatever type of file, I just hit the attach button, locate it, and send it off! Also, when I was job hunting about a year ago, everything I read recommended creating a PLAIN TEXT version of your CV to use as a sig. The rationale is that the people reading the cv don't give a hoot about formatting, they just want to weed out people based on qualifications and experience, not document formatting. Correct, most corporations want the resume in text format so it can be scanned into a database and then they run queries to pull out keywords. Bill -- The box said Windows95 or better, so I installed Linux Virus checker? I don't need no steenkin virus checker! No M$ here! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Monday 10 June 2002 06:34 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Monday 10 June 2002 04:39 pm, s wrote: Yeah, I vote for kmail too, tho after 30 or 40 thousand messages, it starts to choke. :)(had to rename my Mail folder today). :( -s My version has a delete function. Very useful. ;^) teehee. no doubt. :D But I'm a packrat. I hate to delete stuff. ;) -s Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
Another point, John: If you really want to see something ugly, take a look at an html e-mail with html disabled. You'll see that the message becomes It also is a good visual indication of how wasteful HTML email can be. I have seen numerous examples of dozens of nbsp; nbsp; nbsp etc. ;( Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
Besides, what can't be said in plain text e-mail? Do you lack the necessary communication skills to use simple words? Did Tolkien write using fancy fonts Well, discounting Elvish perhaps, no. and colours? My point is that HTML mail is simply unnecessary. Do you want /italics/, _underlining_ or *bold* fonts? Do you want a smiley face :-) ? It all It would be nice to see real underlining or bolding, but I've gotten so used to seeing *bold* represented that way. Knode (kde's news reader) shows the bolds in boldface, but internally they still look like *bold*, methinks. It's certainly less wasteful than /bold text /bold, though. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Monday 10 June 2002 03:37 pm, Gerald Waugh wrote: On Monday 10 June 2002 11:28 am, Bulloved wrote: snip What Linux email clients do people on the list prefer? I like kmail Yeah, I vote for kmail too, tho after 30 or 40 thousand messages, it starts to choke. :)(had to rename my Mail folder today). :( -s Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
What Linux email clients do people on the list prefer? TIA for any assistance anyone can offer. I tried Sylpheed-Claws (not regular Sylpheed) and Evolution as an Outlook Express convert. Evolution has the best search tools, and it has other tools like unto the full Outlook. But it loads relatively slowly, and I don't need those extra tools. So I've settled with Sylpheed Claws. It's not dependent on Gnome or KDE, and it's lightning fast. Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Monday 10 June 2002 04:39 pm, s wrote: On Monday 10 June 2002 03:37 pm, Gerald Waugh wrote: On Monday 10 June 2002 11:28 am, Bulloved wrote: snip What Linux email clients do people on the list prefer? I like kmail Yeah, I vote for kmail too, tho after 30 or 40 thousand messages, it starts to choke. :)(had to rename my Mail folder today). :( -s My version has a delete function. Very useful. ;^) Back to the subject: Yes, kmail is a good application; I've been using it since November with no problems (other than the usual operator-error stuff.) -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:28:29 -0400, Bulloved [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. After having made numerous attempts at installing various distros of Linux over a period of three years with no success,I was delighted to find that the Mandrake 8.2 installer worked without a hitch. I now have Mandrake 8.2 installed and operational. The reason for the quotes around operational is that I have yet to actually do anything productive using Linux. In part that is because much of what I do with my computer is e-mail and I have yet to find a more than marginally useful e-mail client. I've tried K-Mail, Mozilla mail, Opera mail, Pine, and found them all to be useless. Pine may have actually been damaging to my system. Since installing it on the weekend I can not get Mozilla to work under windows and I am unable to use the Calypso program I mentioned. I don't know that the installation of Pine had anything to do with these troubles but I would like to uninstall it from my system but can't figure out how. I seriously doubt that Pine could have messed up anything in Windows. I'm looking for a feature rich email client. One which I like in the windows environment is Calypso. The closer I could get to the functionality of Calypso the better. Any suggestions? I haven't used Calypso, so I'm not quite sure what you're after. Have you tried mutt, Sylpheed, Balsa or Evolution? Evolution would be your best bet if you really need something feature rich. It's just like Outlook but better. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan Gartner recommends that enterprises... immediately investigate alternatives to [Microsoft] IIS, including moving Web applications to Web server software from other vendors, such as iPlanet and Apache... [which] have much better security records than IIS... Gartner remains concerned that viruses and worms will continue to attack IIS until Microsoft has released a completely rewritten, thoroughly and publicly tested, new release of IIS. -- John Pescatore, Information Security Strategies, Gartner Group, 2001-09-19. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Monday 10 June 2002 05:34 pm, you wrote: KMail is very functional and easy to use, but I wish it had an option to not preview a message until I explicitly tell it too, as I could do with Outlook Express. I understand that I can take off html preview completely but that isn't what I want. On Monday 10 June 2002 04:39 pm, s wrote: On Monday 10 June 2002 03:37 pm, Gerald Waugh wrote: On Monday 10 June 2002 11:28 am, Bulloved wrote: snip What Linux email clients do people on the list prefer? I like kmail Yeah, I vote for kmail too, tho after 30 or 40 thousand messages, it starts to choke. :)(had to rename my Mail folder today). :( -s My version has a delete function. Very useful. ;^) Back to the subject: Yes, kmail is a good application; I've been using it since November with no problems (other than the usual operator-error stuff.) -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
On Monday 10 June 2002 04:37 pm, you wrote: On Monday 10 June 2002 11:28 am, Bulloved wrote: snip What Linux email clients do people on the list prefer? I like kmail Same here, but my wife uses Evolution. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
I'm not familiar with Calypso, so I can't compare, but I use Evolution 1.0.2, and it certainly is full featured. It's also a bit buggy, so if there's a more recent version grab it. Another full featured client is Aethera, although I haven't tried it. Warren On Mon, 2002-06-10 at 09:28, Bulloved wrote: I'm looking for a feature rich email client. One which I like in the windows environment is Calypso. The closer I could get to the functionality of Calypso the better. Any suggestions? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Intro and E-Mail client??
Warren Post wrote: I'm not familiar with Calypso, so I can't compare, but I use Evolution 1.0.2, and it certainly is full featured. It's also a bit buggy, Well they _did_ say they were trying to write something like Outlook ;-) Seriously, though, Evolution is impressive. I'm back with Mozilla for reasons I explained earlier, but if you want features, Evolution has them in bundles. I particularly liked the summary page - all my favourite /. etc stories at a glance. Sir Robin -- So I repeat myself? I am great, I contain tautologies. Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Üniversitesi Ankara Turkey http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
