Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Blake]

:)

Clearly this is the sort of thing that the OpenIndiana group must choose to
do, if they agree.  I'll reiterate - I love OpenIndiana, and I want it to be
easily name-dropped and recognizable to even the hobbyist crowd.  These are
the folks who can help fix things in userland and the GUI.  If we really
want mindshare, that is.


Blake




On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Garrett D'Amore  wrote:

> You're not alone.
>
>- Garrett
>
> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 16:53 -0700, Blake wrote:
> > Does anyone besides me feel that we need a more unified
> > naming/branding approach for the community-driven descendants of
> > OpenSolaris? I feel that the there is no obvious connection (for those
> > new to the platform) between Illumos/OpenIndiana, which I think is
> > counterproductive given that OpenIndiana is sort of the 'Fedora Core'
> > of Illumos.
> >
> >
> > Some possible names:
> >
> >
> > Illumos Live
> >
> >
> > Illumos Core
> >
> >
> > Illumos [version_number] - [adjective] [animal]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > (kidding about the last one)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I think OpenIndiana is great, I just don't think that the name
> > 'Indiana' means anything to anyone and isn't very memorable.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Blake
> > ___
> > Discuss mailing list
> > disc...@lists.illumos.org
> > http://lists.illumos.org/m/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Albert Lee]

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Blake  wrote:
> Does anyone besides me feel that we need a more unified naming/branding
> approach for the community-driven descendants of OpenSolaris? I feel that
> the there is no obvious connection (for those new to the platform) between
> Illumos/OpenIndiana, which I think is counterproductive given that
> OpenIndiana is sort of the 'Fedora Core' of Illumos.
> Some possible names:
> Illumos Live
> Illumos Core
> Illumos [version_number] - [adjective] [animal]
>
>
>
>
> (kidding about the last one)
>
> I think OpenIndiana is great, I just don't think that the name 'Indiana'
> means anything to anyone and isn't very memorable.
>

I completely agree with that. The name is awkward as an adjective attached to a
piece of jargon, which predates illumos and made more sense when
the OpenSolaris distribution was still around.

However, I don't understand your "'Fedora Core' of Illumos" analogy in
the context of the relationship between illumos and OpenIndiana.
OpenIndiana is a distribution of illumos similar to how Fedora is a
GNU/Linux distribution.

It is one of several distributions based on illumos, and its main
distinction is that it's the primary developer platform. Also,
"illumos Live" is already taken by Joyent's mini-distribution:
https://github.com/joyent/illumos-live

While there's already some degree of brand recognition for the
OpenIndiana name, a name that is easier to build associations with
(and isn't a mouthful) will definitely blow it away.

This has been brought up on multiple occasions but devolved into
bikeshedding, so perhaps we need a better approach.

-Albert

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Magnus]

I've been reticent to say anything as a newcomer, but a six syllable name 
doesn't exactly roll off the tip of the tongue. Not to mention, any relevance 
to "Indiana" is probably lost upon a broader audience. 

"Open" is pretty played out as a prefix.

The whole thing should be two, maybe three syllables at most. Pfft. Done.

I'll still use it even if it's called Antidisestablishmentarianix. But it'll be 
a tough sell to the boss.

(PS I was in this same discussion years ago when a Linux distribution changed 
its name from cAosity to CentOS. I think you know the rest.)

-M


On Jun 20, 2011, at 8:10 PM, Blake wrote:

> :)
> 
> Clearly this is the sort of thing that the OpenIndiana group must choose to
> do, if they agree.  I'll reiterate - I love OpenIndiana, and I want it to be
> easily name-dropped and recognizable to even the hobbyist crowd.  These are
> the folks who can help fix things in userland and the GUI.  If we really
> want mindshare, that is.
> 
> 
> Blake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Garrett D'Amore  wrote:
> 
>> You're not alone.
>> 
>>   - Garrett
>> 
>> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 16:53 -0700, Blake wrote:
>>> Does anyone besides me feel that we need a more unified
>>> naming/branding approach for the community-driven descendants of
>>> OpenSolaris? I feel that the there is no obvious connection (for those
>>> new to the platform) between Illumos/OpenIndiana, which I think is
>>> counterproductive given that OpenIndiana is sort of the 'Fedora Core'
>>> of Illumos.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Some possible names:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Illumos Live
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Illumos Core
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Illumos [version_number] - [adjective] [animal]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> (kidding about the last one)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think OpenIndiana is great, I just don't think that the name
>>> 'Indiana' means anything to anyone and isn't very memorable.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Blake
>>> ___
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> disc...@lists.illumos.org
>>> http://lists.illumos.org/m/listinfo/discuss
>> 
>> 
>> 
> ___
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> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Jake]

I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it is the 
opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is totally 
lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was. 

I think a Sun reference would be fitting.   

EclipseOS maybe?

Can we put up a page on the wiki to record suggestions and vote on it after we 
get a few?

Jake

On Jun 20, 2011, at 8:44 PM, Magnus  wrote:

> I've been reticent to say anything as a newcomer, but a six syllable name 
> doesn't exactly roll off the tip of the tongue. Not to mention, any relevance 
> to "Indiana" is probably lost upon a broader audience. 
> 
> "Open" is pretty played out as a prefix.
> 
> The whole thing should be two, maybe three syllables at most. Pfft. Done.
> 
> I'll still use it even if it's called Antidisestablishmentarianix. But it'll 
> be a tough sell to the boss.
> 
> (PS I was in this same discussion years ago when a Linux distribution changed 
> its name from cAosity to CentOS. I think you know the rest.)
> 
> -M
> 
> 
> On Jun 20, 2011, at 8:10 PM, Blake wrote:
> 
>> :)
>> 
>> Clearly this is the sort of thing that the OpenIndiana group must choose to
>> do, if they agree.  I'll reiterate - I love OpenIndiana, and I want it to be
>> easily name-dropped and recognizable to even the hobbyist crowd.  These are
>> the folks who can help fix things in userland and the GUI.  If we really
>> want mindshare, that is.
>> 
>> 
>> Blake
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Garrett D'Amore  wrote:
>> 
>>> You're not alone.
>>> 
>>>  - Garrett
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 16:53 -0700, Blake wrote:
 Does anyone besides me feel that we need a more unified
 naming/branding approach for the community-driven descendants of
 OpenSolaris? I feel that the there is no obvious connection (for those
 new to the platform) between Illumos/OpenIndiana, which I think is
 counterproductive given that OpenIndiana is sort of the 'Fedora Core'
 of Illumos.
 
 
 Some possible names:
 
 
 Illumos Live
 
 
 Illumos Core
 
 
 Illumos [version_number] - [adjective] [animal]
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 (kidding about the last one)
 
 
 
 
 I think OpenIndiana is great, I just don't think that the name
 'Indiana' means anything to anyone and isn't very memorable.
 
 
 
 
 Blake
 ___
 Discuss mailing list
 disc...@lists.illumos.org
 http://lists.illumos.org/m/listinfo/discuss
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
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>> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
> 
> 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Magnus]

On Jun 20, 2011, at 9:11 PM, Jake wrote:

> EclipseOS maybe?

http://www.eclipse.org/ might take exception. ;)



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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Jamon Camisso]

Too bad the names nixOS and Illumix are taken.

Some celestial/mythical names:

KoreOS - Kore being another name for Persephone. There might be a bit
of a metaphorical parallel between her story and Solaris depending on
how you look at it. But what do I know..

CorOS - based on the name of Cor Caroli, a being a binary star system.
Apt considering Illumos/OI?

SiriOS - like Sirius, a star that is nearly 2x larger than our Sol.
Can OI live up to that type of name?

OberOS - Wikipedia says: Oberon is the king of all of the fairies in
William Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream who is feuding with
his wife Titania, the queen of the fairies. They are fighting over a
baby that Oberon wants to raise as his henchman. Titania wants to keep
the baby because he is the child of Titania's mortal follower who
died, and she wants to raise the child for her follower.

I'm all out of OS names for now.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Magnus  wrote:
>
> On Jun 20, 2011, at 9:11 PM, Jake wrote:
>
>> EclipseOS maybe?
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/ might take exception. ;)
>
>
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Rob Shinn]

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:11 -0400, Jake wrote:
> I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it is the 
> opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is totally 
> lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was. 
> 
> I think a Sun reference would be fitting.   
> 
> EclipseOS maybe?

HeliOS? ApollOS (Domain/OS? ;) ? 

I think all the good Sun references are already taken. :)

LughOS?  BelOS? RaOS?  HathorOS?



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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Tim Aslat]

In the immortal words of Rob Shinn  on 06/21/11 11:48:

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:11 -0400, Jake wrote:

I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it is the 
opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is totally 
lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was.

I think a Sun reference would be fitting.

EclipseOS maybe?


HeliOS? ApollOS (Domain/OS? ;) ?

I think all the good Sun references are already taken. :)

LughOS?  BelOS? RaOS?  HathorOS?


How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun)


--
Tim Aslat 
Spyderweb Consulting
http://www.spyderweb.com.au
Mobile: +61 0401088479

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Magnus]

On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote:
> 
> How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun)

Mithros.org is available. I intentionally didn't capitalize the "os". It's less 
awkward to read and to pronounce.

There are some tenuous connections between Mithras & Sol, the Sun God, in 
ancient Roman art. But it's a simple name, and the domain is available. Don't 
be a b*d and squat on this name if it's not going to be for the productive 
use of this project. ;)

Magnus
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Paul Gress]

On 06/20/11 10:32 PM, Magnus wrote:

On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote:

How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun)

Mithros.org is available. I intentionally didn't capitalize the "os". It's less 
awkward to read and to pronounce.

There are some tenuous connections between Mithras&  Sol, the Sun God, in 
ancient Roman art. But it's a simple name, and the domain is available. Don't be a 
b*d and squat on this name if it's not going to be for the productive use of 
this project. ;)




"Moonshine". It goes along with Celestial objects (Moon), and Shine as in Rays 
of Sun.  Also programming at night.

Paul
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Marion Hakanson]

What's wrong with just "illumos"?  If you need to distinguish, just use
"illumos, the kernel" or "illumos, OS/Net" vs "illumos, the distribution".
The original "OpenSolaris, the distribution" was based on "OpenSolaris,
the kernel", and other distributions based on "Opensolaris, the kernel"
did exist.

One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. "illumos desktop",
"illumos server", or "illumos live usb", if needed.

Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from "illumos, the kernel", but it
seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of "OpenSolaris, the
kernel" for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base.

Do we really need a different name for the "main" distribution?  I personally
find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm
using a lot harder.  I have to give a whole family tree history instead of
just saying, "Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11."

I also happen to think "illumos" is an excellent name.  Use it everywhere.

Regards,

Marion



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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[jaimef]

BigRed 

Marion Hakanson  wrote:

>What's wrong with just "illumos"?  If you need to distinguish, just use
>"illumos, the kernel" or "illumos, OS/Net" vs "illumos, the distribution".
>The original "OpenSolaris, the distribution" was based on "OpenSolaris,
>the kernel", and other distributions based on "Opensolaris, the kernel"
>did exist.
>
>One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. "illumos desktop",
>"illumos server", or "illumos live usb", if needed.
>
>Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from "illumos, the kernel", but it
>seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of "OpenSolaris, the
>kernel" for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base.
>
>Do we really need a different name for the "main" distribution?  I personally
>find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm
>using a lot harder.  I have to give a whole family tree history instead of
>just saying, "Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11."
>
>I also happen to think "illumos" is an excellent name.  Use it everywhere.
>
>Regards,
>
>Marion
>
>
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Ken Gunderson]

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 19:58 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote:
> What's wrong with just "illumos"?  If you need to distinguish, just use
> "illumos, the kernel" or "illumos, OS/Net" vs "illumos, the distribution".
> The original "OpenSolaris, the distribution" was based on "OpenSolaris,
> the kernel", and other distributions based on "Opensolaris, the kernel"
> did exist.
> 
> One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. "illumos desktop",
> "illumos server", or "illumos live usb", if needed.
> 
> Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from "illumos, the kernel", but it
> seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of "OpenSolaris, the
> kernel" for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base.
> 
> Do we really need a different name for the "main" distribution?  I personally
> find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm
> using a lot harder.  I have to give a whole family tree history instead of
> just saying, "Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11."
> 
> I also happen to think "illumos" is an excellent name.  Use it everywhere.

Uh... Excuse me, but what have you been smoking?  Drinking, maybe?
I think Illumos is a pretty lame name, nothing against the people who
chose it.  I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to
"oi", as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is
supposed to be an "Open" project (although "Open" has been so misused by
marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more
recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly
following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco).  

But all that is neither here nor there.  The point is that your idea
was/is lame.  And that your mother probably dresses you funny...


-- 
Regards-- Ken Gunderson


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Blake Irvin]

While in many ways I agree, I do find that 'Illumos' is hard for the 
uninitiated to 'hear right'.  It's a little awkward to pronounce.

I think it's best to throw up a collaborative document and after we collect a 
bunch of names take a poll.  That would help give an idea of what people are 
thinking.  It's up to the OI team to decide if they want to act on what we 
learn.

Blake


sent from a Unix host smaller than my open hand.

On Jun 20, 2011, at 7:58 PM, Marion Hakanson  wrote:

> What's wrong with just "illumos"?  If you need to distinguish, just use
> "illumos, the kernel" or "illumos, OS/Net" vs "illumos, the distribution".
> The original "OpenSolaris, the distribution" was based on "OpenSolaris,
> the kernel", and other distributions based on "Opensolaris, the kernel"
> did exist.
> 
> One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. "illumos desktop",
> "illumos server", or "illumos live usb", if needed.
> 
> Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from "illumos, the kernel", but it
> seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of "OpenSolaris, the
> kernel" for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base.
> 
> Do we really need a different name for the "main" distribution?  I personally
> find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm
> using a lot harder.  I have to give a whole family tree history instead of
> just saying, "Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11."
> 
> I also happen to think "illumos" is an excellent name.  Use it everywhere.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Marion
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Ken Gunderson]

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 23:03 -0600, Ken Gunderson wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 19:58 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote:
> > What's wrong with just "illumos"?  If you need to distinguish, just use
> > "illumos, the kernel" or "illumos, OS/Net" vs "illumos, the distribution".
> > The original "OpenSolaris, the distribution" was based on "OpenSolaris,
> > the kernel", and other distributions based on "Opensolaris, the kernel"
> > did exist.
> > 
> > One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. "illumos desktop",
> > "illumos server", or "illumos live usb", if needed.
> > 
> > Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from "illumos, the kernel", but it
> > seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of "OpenSolaris, the
> > kernel" for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base.
> > 
> > Do we really need a different name for the "main" distribution?  I 
> > personally
> > find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm
> > using a lot harder.  I have to give a whole family tree history instead of
> > just saying, "Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11."
> > 
> > I also happen to think "illumos" is an excellent name.  Use it everywhere.
> 
> Uh... Excuse me, but what have you been smoking?  Drinking, maybe?
> I think Illumos is a pretty lame name, nothing against the people who
> chose it.  I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to
> "oi", as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is
> supposed to be an "Open" project (although "Open" has been so misused by
> marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more
> recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly
> following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco).  
> 
> But all that is neither here nor there.  The point is that your idea
> was/is lame.  And that your mother probably dresses you funny...
> 
> 

P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was
intended to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P

-- 
Regards-- Ken Gunderson


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Marion Hakanson]

kgund...@teamcool.net said:
> But all that is neither here nor there.  The point is that your idea
> was/is lame.

Yeah, but what do you think of my idea?


>  And that your mother probably dresses you funny... 

Not for several decades, she hasn't (:-).


kgund...@teamcool.net said:
> P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was intended
> to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P 

Phew, for a minute there I thought you might not entirely agree with me (:-).


> ...Marion Hakanson wrote:
> > I also happen to think "illumos" is an excellent name.  Use it everywhere.

OK, I may have exaggerated a bit.  But I do like the name -- I think it's
a clever play on words, in multiple directions.  And the fact that most of
my immediate family members are well-versed in the Harry Potter stories
probably has nothing to do with it.


kgund...@teamcool.net said:
> I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to
> "oi", as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is
> supposed to be an "Open" project (although "Open" has been so misused by
> marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more
> recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly
> following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco).  

I'm enough of an old Unix geek that I dislike the "Indiana" name's
association with a project that was an attempt to make Solaris more
Linux-like.  I'm also one of those who puts /usr/gnu/bin at the end of the
PATH at install time (yet note that I do not remove it entirely), just so
you know which segment of the target audience I'm in.  Of course, my spouse
is from Indiana, and that relationship is going pretty well, so you never
can tell

Never mind my opinion, however.  We all know that I have no future in
marketing, nor likely in any popular or for-profit enterprise of any kind.

We now return you to your lameness-free content (:-)

Regards,

Marion



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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Gabriel de la Cruz]

Absolutely we need branding, we need to start working on proper websites for
both projects (here I include Illumos), and we need to start approaching the
marketing question.

I got used to the illumos name, I still find openindiana a pretey unsexy
name, but we can go on with it if we cheer up other aspects of the
trademark.

I sugested time ago to turn the "i" upside down and trun it into an
exclamation "!", this would make O! instead of OI, with a proper tipeface it
is still posible to read it as an i.   The dot of the exclamation mark
should be below the bottom line of the word, sorry I cannot ilustrate that
on plain text. I would paste the words togeter but use different collor for
"open" and "indiana" open!ndana.
Anyway "O" stands for open, and the excalmation mark enphasized the opening.

The indiana part of open!ndiana points out to opensolaris past, even if it
reminds some very local american lifestyle Not fantastic but we can go
with it.
This way we have a logo O!  and a trademark open!ndiana.

I think we need the illumos trademark to be very visible all around. It must
be clear that Oi (O!) runs on illumos

I have liferay servers that I could offer for hosting a decent website for
the project, some profesional designers, and we could code some java
banners, menus and such. This could be deployed rather fast.

I liked Garret´s t-shirt on the videos, I would sugest to redraw the bird a
bit.

Feel free to contact if you have some sugestions.

Cheers,

gab





On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:45 AM, Marion Hakanson  wrote:

> kgund...@teamcool.net said:
> > But all that is neither here nor there.  The point is that your idea
> > was/is lame.
>
> Yeah, but what do you think of my idea?
>
>
> >  And that your mother probably dresses you funny...
>
> Not for several decades, she hasn't (:-).
>
>
> kgund...@teamcool.net said:
> > P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was
> intended
> > to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P
>
> Phew, for a minute there I thought you might not entirely agree with me
> (:-).
>
>
> > ...Marion Hakanson wrote:
> > > I also happen to think "illumos" is an excellent name.  Use it
> everywhere.
>
> OK, I may have exaggerated a bit.  But I do like the name -- I think it's
> a clever play on words, in multiple directions.  And the fact that most of
> my immediate family members are well-versed in the Harry Potter stories
> probably has nothing to do with it.
>
>
> kgund...@teamcool.net said:
> > I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to
> > "oi", as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is
> > supposed to be an "Open" project (although "Open" has been so misused by
> > marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more
> > recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly
> > following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco).
>
> I'm enough of an old Unix geek that I dislike the "Indiana" name's
> association with a project that was an attempt to make Solaris more
> Linux-like.  I'm also one of those who puts /usr/gnu/bin at the end of the
> PATH at install time (yet note that I do not remove it entirely), just so
> you know which segment of the target audience I'm in.  Of course, my spouse
> is from Indiana, and that relationship is going pretty well, so you never
> can tell
>
> Never mind my opinion, however.  We all know that I have no future in
> marketing, nor likely in any popular or for-profit enterprise of any kind.
>
> We now return you to your lameness-free content (:-)
>
> Regards,
>
> Marion
>
>
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[peter jones]

Oi covers both basis standing for openindiana and open
illuminos.ittransfers well into immerging market languages of brazil
and asia whos
language confinds don't pick up longer words or english associations well.To
get you started on this...it has to be easally transferable across
cultures,it should be recognised by upto three associations (eg open source)
it must be simplistic in its conveyance of value(language,word or logo)
easey to maintain,and be easally remembered by you target audience.Once you
have started to support a brand choice there is no going back . A brand
professional is alway the best path.

On 21 Jun 2011 10:46, "Svein Skogen (Listmail account)" <
svein-listm...@stillbilde.net> wrote:
> On 21.06.2011 11:33, Gabriel de la Cruz wrote:
>> I have liferay servers that I could offer for hosting a decent website
for
>> the project, some profesional designers, and we could code some java
>> banners, menus and such. This could be deployed rather fast.
>
> Perhaps, if someone came up with a cute mascot for the project, someone
> could bribe Tatsumi Hosokawa to make us a theme? Something like
> http://fromto.cc/hosokawa/gallery/images/moon.jpg would have a certain
> "feeling" about it. Maybe something of a pun on feathers and melting
wax...
>
> //Svein
>
> --
> +---+---
> /"\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no
> \ / |Solberg Østli 9 | PGP Key: 0xE5E76831
> X |2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no
> / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13
> | | sv...@stillbilde.net
> ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6
> ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net
> Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4
> +---+---
> |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575
> |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle: SS16503-RIPE
> +---+---
> A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
> 
> Picture Gallery:
> https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/
> 
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[oi-discuss]

In message , Jamon Camisso 
writes:

>Some celestial/mythical names:

RaOS/RayOS/Raix/Rayix?

- mho


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[oi-discuss]

In message <15a2f120-d24b-43dc-8cd6-2417182e7...@yonderway.com>, Magnus writes:
>
>On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote:
>> 
>> How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun)

I like FlareOS (or flareix, perhaps)

- mho

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[oi-discuss]

In message <4e006881.5090...@stillbilde.net>, "Svein Skogen (Listmail account)"
 writes:

>"feeling" about it. Maybe something of a pun on feathers and melting wax.=

IcarOS?

- mho

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Gordon Ross]

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat  wrote:
>
> How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun)

I think just "Flare" is an intriguing suggestion.
I don't think it has to end with O S.

I like the rhyme with "flair", and the association
with solar flares.

Gordon

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Ken Gunderson]

On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 00:45 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote:
> kgund...@teamcool.net said:
> > But all that is neither here nor there.  The point is that your idea
> > was/is lame.
> 
> Yeah, but what do you think of my idea?
> 
> 
> >  And that your mother probably dresses you funny... 
> 
> Not for several decades, she hasn't (:-).
> 
> 
> kgund...@teamcool.net said:
> > P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was intended
> > to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P 
> 
> Phew, for a minute there I thought you might not entirely agree with me (:-).
> 
> 
> > ...Marion Hakanson wrote:
> > > I also happen to think "illumos" is an excellent name.  Use it everywhere.
> 
> OK, I may have exaggerated a bit.  But I do like the name -- I think it's
> a clever play on words, in multiple directions.  And the fact that most of
> my immediate family members are well-versed in the Harry Potter stories
> probably has nothing to do with it.

I think it comes off as a less than successful effort to be witty.  Nor
does it roll off your tongue.  OpenIndiana suffers from this as well,
but hey, at least it leaves us with short and sweet contraction; oi,
which rolls off the tongue quite agreeably, eh?

I also think that it's time to make clean break from Oracle/Solaris
dependencies/associations - particularly since Larry is doing such an
excellent job of alienating SMB's and reasonably large sized enterprises
alike. 

> kgund...@teamcool.net said:
> > I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to
> > "oi", as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is
> > supposed to be an "Open" project (although "Open" has been so misused by
> > marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more
> > recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly
> > following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco).  
> 
> I'm enough of an old Unix geek that I dislike the "Indiana" name's
> association with a project that was an attempt to make Solaris more
> Linux-like.  

I completely agree. Indiana was a marketroid driven effort to make
things more Linux like, err.. I mean Ubuntu like, because all hip
marketroids know that Linux equals Ubuntu.

> I'm also one of those who puts /usr/gnu/bin at the end of the
> PATH at install time (yet note that I do not remove it entirely), just so
> you know which segment of the target audience I'm in.  Of course, my spouse
> is from Indiana, and that relationship is going pretty well, so you never
> can tell
> 
> Never mind my opinion, however.  We all know that I have no future in
> marketing, nor likely in any popular or for-profit enterprise of any kind.
> 
> We now return you to your lameness-free content (:-)

I'm not averse to dropping OpenIndiana in favor of something better.  I
AM against that being any kind of play/dependency on Illumos. I don't
have anything against the Illumos project.  But therein lies the salient
issue - Illumos and OI are two separate projects.

-- 
Regards-- Ken Gunderson


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Nikolam]

As long as Anyone contribute a bit on some real projects and problems
, there is always room for change in some future or something over
branding.

But currently I would rather shoot myself in the foot then changing
branding in a moments mostly crucial to the distribution and core OS
future. (And crucial moments are already all the time from the
beginning - there is still to come stable OI release that could be
recommended for production use an from where wider audience could be
gathered.

I woud rather like to see X server drivers (intel) movements , Xen
support resurrected and High Availability put into the move and
software porting community refreshed with more coherent IPS publishers
hosted around.
And newcomer contributors mentoring facilities.

OI is what you get when you put uname -a and there and is already in a
number of software and scripts using it to identify platform.
I think that further changes in branding could be considered when
development community is at least 10X the present volume. (And there
IS a space for branched distributions production - a la Ubuntu,etc)

If we put $5-10 in a Jar or spend hour or two on some distribution's
coordinated effort,
- every time we got Eureka idea about branding, then I wouldn't mind
any great branding ideas.

On 6/21/11, oi-disc...@mho.nu  wrote:
> In message <15a2f120-d24b-43dc-8cd6-2417182e7...@yonderway.com>, Magnus
> writes:
>>
>>On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote:
>>>
>>> How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun)
>
> I like FlareOS (or flareix, perhaps)
>
> - mho
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Ken Gunderson]

On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 18:12 +0200, Nikolam wrote:
> As long as Anyone contribute a bit on some real projects and problems
> , there is always room for change in some future or something over
> branding.
> 
> But currently I would rather shoot myself in the foot then changing
> branding in a moments mostly crucial to the distribution and core OS
> future. (And crucial moments are already all the time from the
> beginning - there is still to come stable OI release that could be
> recommended for production use an from where wider audience could be
> gathered.
> 
> I woud rather like to see X server drivers (intel) movements , Xen
> support resurrected and High Availability put into the move and
> software porting community refreshed with more coherent IPS publishers
> hosted around.
> And newcomer contributors mentoring facilities.
> 
> OI is what you get when you put uname -a and there and is already in a
> number of software and scripts using it to identify platform.
> I think that further changes in branding could be considered when
> development community is at least 10X the present volume. (And there
> IS a space for branched distributions production - a la Ubuntu,etc)
> 
> If we put $5-10 in a Jar or spend hour or two on some distribution's
> coordinated effort,
> - every time we got Eureka idea about branding, then I wouldn't mind
> any great branding ideas.

+1


-- 
Regards-- Ken Gunderson


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Ken Gunderson]

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:11 -0400, Jake wrote:
> I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it is the 
> opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is totally 
> lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was. 
> 
> I think a Sun reference would be fitting.   

Why?  The Sun has set some time ago.  There's nothing to see here now.
Time to move along, move along.  Perhaps you're thinking that a
reference to Sun obscure enough to avoid a lawsuit would in some way be
attractive to business.  I think the opposite - anyone who's been around
for a while has their Oracle horror story so why would we want to
associate.  And by Oracle, I'm referencing the corporate entity, not
contributing individuals who happen to be employed by same.


-- 
Regards-- Ken Gunderson


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Ken Gunderson]

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 22:46 -0400, Paul Gress wrote:
> On 06/20/11 10:32 PM, Magnus wrote:
> > On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote:
> >> How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun)
> > Mithros.org is available. I intentionally didn't capitalize the "os". It's 
> > less awkward to read and to pronounce.
> >
> > There are some tenuous connections between Mithras&  Sol, the Sun God, in 
> > ancient Roman art. But it's a simple name, and the domain is available. 
> > Don't be a b*d and squat on this name if it's not going to be for the 
> > productive use of this project. ;)
> >
> 
> 
> "Moonshine". It goes along with Celestial objects (Moon), and Shine as in 
> Rays of Sun.  Also programming at night.

Not to mention bootleg liquor!!


-- 
Regards-- Ken Gunderson


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Doug Bora]

I'm not averse to dropping OpenIndiana in favor of something better.  I
AM against that being any kind of play/dependency on Illumos. I don't
have anything against the Illumos project.  But therein lies the salient
issue - Illumos and OI are two separate projects.


I agree. Obviously they're related, but you don't want people confusing 
the 2 as they are 2 distinct projects.  The other issue I'm seeing with 
a lot of name suggestions, is that a simple web search often turns up 
tons of hits where the names are already in use -- many times as names 
of existing software, making them less than desirable.  Coming up with a 
solid name that isn't in prior use isn't an easy task!


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Jake Young]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote:

> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:11 -0400, Jake wrote:
> > I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it is
> the opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is
> totally lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was.
> >
> > I think a Sun reference would be fitting.
>
> Why?  The Sun has set some time ago.  There's nothing to see here now.
> Time to move along, move along.  Perhaps you're thinking that a
> reference to Sun obscure enough to avoid a lawsuit would in some way be
> attractive to business.  I think the opposite - anyone who's been around
> for a while has their Oracle horror story so why would we want to
> associate.  And by Oracle, I'm referencing the corporate entity, not
> contributing individuals who happen to be employed by same.
>
>
> --
> Regards-- Ken Gunderson
>
> One of the biggest appeals of OI/Illumos to me is that it is a continuation
of the legacy of Sun Solaris' high standards of engineering excellence. My
personal view of the open sourcing of Solaris 11 is that someone in Sun
wanted to make sure that the OS that had so much invested in it would have
an opportunity to continue to flourish.  Things weren't going so well for
Sun back in 2005, it was pretty clear that if the Sun hardware wasn't going
to make enough money, the OS development would be impacted severely.  The
roots of Solaris go back to the beginning of

Not that Sun was such a great company, but there were a lot of fantastic
developers there.  Anyone I talked to that knew the kernel development
teams, said something along the lines of "they're the smartest people I
know".  Sun incubated that talent and tried to make its money from hardware
sales.

There are still a lot of fantastic people that stayed on when Oracle took
over.  What is scaring everyone is what will Oracle do with Solaris in 5
years, will there even be a Solaris 12?

Maybe someday, OI/Illumos will not be seen as the fork...

I think its appropriate to honor the company that brought us this great OS!

Jake
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Blake]

I agree that Sun's engineering legacy is impressive.

Unfortunately, the words 'Sun' and 'Solaris' are anathema to most young
startups and newbie engineers.  Rather than forcing a history lesson on
them, I feel we should look forward when evangelizing the platform.

Blake

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Jake Young  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Ken Gunderson  >wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:11 -0400, Jake wrote:
> > > I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it
> is
> > the opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is
> > totally lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was.
> > >
> > > I think a Sun reference would be fitting.
> >
> > Why?  The Sun has set some time ago.  There's nothing to see here now.
> > Time to move along, move along.  Perhaps you're thinking that a
> > reference to Sun obscure enough to avoid a lawsuit would in some way be
> > attractive to business.  I think the opposite - anyone who's been around
> > for a while has their Oracle horror story so why would we want to
> > associate.  And by Oracle, I'm referencing the corporate entity, not
> > contributing individuals who happen to be employed by same.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards-- Ken Gunderson
> >
> > One of the biggest appeals of OI/Illumos to me is that it is a
> continuation
> of the legacy of Sun Solaris' high standards of engineering excellence. My
> personal view of the open sourcing of Solaris 11 is that someone in Sun
> wanted to make sure that the OS that had so much invested in it would have
> an opportunity to continue to flourish.  Things weren't going so well for
> Sun back in 2005, it was pretty clear that if the Sun hardware wasn't going
> to make enough money, the OS development would be impacted severely.  The
> roots of Solaris go back to the beginning of
>
> Not that Sun was such a great company, but there were a lot of fantastic
> developers there.  Anyone I talked to that knew the kernel development
> teams, said something along the lines of "they're the smartest people I
> know".  Sun incubated that talent and tried to make its money from hardware
> sales.
>
> There are still a lot of fantastic people that stayed on when Oracle took
> over.  What is scaring everyone is what will Oracle do with Solaris in 5
> years, will there even be a Solaris 12?
>
> Maybe someday, OI/Illumos will not be seen as the fork...
>
> I think its appropriate to honor the company that brought us this great OS!
>
> Jake
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Ken Gunderson]

On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 11:32 -0700, Blake wrote:
> I agree that Sun's engineering legacy is impressive.
> 
> Unfortunately, the words 'Sun' and 'Solaris' are anathema to most young
> startups and newbie engineers.  Rather than forcing a history lesson on
> them, I feel we should look forward when evangelizing the platform.
> 
> Blake

Amen, brother!!  I about hurled reading Jake's reply. Glad to see that
someone else "gets it".


-- 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Andrey N. Oktyabrski]

On 21.06.11 19:29, oi-disc...@mho.nu wrote:

IcarOS?

http://www.icarosdesktop.org/

On 21.06.11 20:15, Ken Gunderson wrote:
> I like Phoenix - reborn and rising from the ashes of Sun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doscore

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Gregory Youngblood]

What about Solis ? Short, would seem brandable. Quick google didn't return any 
hits for another OS or distro, but I didn't do an exhaustive search.


Playing with some words and google translate:
phoenix:
fenice  : Italian
fénix   : Spanish
feeniks : Finnish


Another idea:
Zonos (play on words from one feature, zones; zone os shrunk to zonos)



On Jun 21, 2011, at 12:10 PM, Andrey N. Oktyabrski wrote:

> On 21.06.11 19:29, oi-disc...@mho.nu wrote:
>> IcarOS?
> http://www.icarosdesktop.org/
> 
> On 21.06.11 20:15, Ken Gunderson wrote:
> > I like Phoenix - reborn and rising from the ashes of Sun.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doscore
> 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Jamon Camisso]

On 06/21/2011 03:05 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 11:32 -0700, Blake wrote:
>> I agree that Sun's engineering legacy is impressive.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the words 'Sun' and 'Solaris' are anathema to most young
>> startups and newbie engineers.  Rather than forcing a history lesson on
>> them, I feel we should look forward when evangelizing the platform.
>>
>> Blake
> 
> Amen, brother!!  I about hurled reading Jake's reply. Glad to see that
> someone else "gets it".

Like it or not, Jake's reply is just as legitimate as yours. Solaris has
caché to some, myself included. Me not knowing anything about it beyond
the fact that it was SunOS before Solaris doesn't change a thing.

Please don't be so dismissive. People bring different backgrounds and
expectations to the discussion and it is good to hear all of them.

I for one disagree with Blake - I am a newbie and am quite attracted to
the legacy of Solaris by way of Illumos and OpenIndiana.

Regards, Jamon

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Ken Gunderson]

On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 15:34 -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote:
> On 06/21/2011 03:05 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote:
> > On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 11:32 -0700, Blake wrote:
> >> I agree that Sun's engineering legacy is impressive.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, the words 'Sun' and 'Solaris' are anathema to most young
> >> startups and newbie engineers.  Rather than forcing a history lesson on
> >> them, I feel we should look forward when evangelizing the platform.
> >>
> >> Blake
> > 
> > Amen, brother!!  I about hurled reading Jake's reply. Glad to see that
> > someone else "gets it".
> 
> Like it or not, Jake's reply is just as legitimate as yours. Solaris has
> caché to some, myself included. Me not knowing anything about it beyond
> the fact that it was SunOS before Solaris doesn't change a thing.
> 
> Please don't be so dismissive. People bring different backgrounds and
> expectations to the discussion and it is good to hear all of them.
> 
> I for one disagree with Blake - I am a newbie and am quite attracted to
> the legacy of Solaris by way of Illumos and OpenIndiana.

Awesome!  By all means we should be checking our rear view and ensuring
we honor history rather than  looking forward and making history.


-- 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Jamon Camisso]

On 06/21/2011 03:38 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote:
>> Like it or not, Jake's reply is just as legitimate as yours. Solaris has
>> caché to some, myself included. Me not knowing anything about it beyond
>> the fact that it was SunOS before Solaris doesn't change a thing.
>>
>> Please don't be so dismissive. People bring different backgrounds and
>> expectations to the discussion and it is good to hear all of them.
>>
>> I for one disagree with Blake - I am a newbie and am quite attracted to
>> the legacy of Solaris by way of Illumos and OpenIndiana.
> 
> Awesome!  By all means we should be checking our rear view and ensuring
> we honor history rather than  looking forward and making history.

The two are not mutually exclusive, both are equally important.

Jamon



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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[P Kaskela]

> What about Solis ? Short, would seem brandable. Quick google didn't return
> any hits for another OS or distro, but I didn't do an exhaustive search.
>
>
> Playing with some words and google translate:
> phoenix:
> fenice: Italian
> fénix : Spanish
> feeniks   : Finnish
>
>
> Another idea:
> Zonos (play on words from one feature, zones; zone os shrunk to zonos)
>
>
>
> On Jun 21, 2011, at 12:10 PM, Andrey N. Oktyabrski wrote:
>
>> On 21.06.11 19:29, oi-disc...@mho.nu wrote:
>>> IcarOS?
>> http://www.icarosdesktop.org/
>>
>> On 21.06.11 20:15, Ken Gunderson wrote:
>> > I like Phoenix - reborn and rising from the ashes of Sun.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doscore
>>
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>
>
>

I am a recent lurker who relatively recently started using Solaris (2004
with Solaris 9 on used Ultra 2 and 5 + Solaris 10 on ultra 20).  I don't
know how valid my input is - I certainly haven't done any programming work
on any of the components.

Keeping that in mind: I really like the 'zonos' name.  It reflects the
most famous recent 'killer feature' of Solaris besides zfs and it rolls
off the tongue easily.
zonos/ZONOS is also visually symmetrical which lends itself well to logos
and the like.

The name is also simple and sounds 'professional' for lack of a better
word.  It also doesn't directly bring up associations to things like linux
does to linus or refer to silly animal mascots.

Just a thought.
-Phil Kaskela


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Jerry Kemp]

Skuas OS

A bird theme that goes along with the Illumos logo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skuas

And Skuas are predators to penguins. :)

Jerry


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Ken Gunderson]

On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 15:43 -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote:
> On 06/21/2011 03:38 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote:
> >> Like it or not, Jake's reply is just as legitimate as yours. Solaris has
> >> caché to some, myself included. Me not knowing anything about it beyond
> >> the fact that it was SunOS before Solaris doesn't change a thing.
> >>
> >> Please don't be so dismissive. People bring different backgrounds and
> >> expectations to the discussion and it is good to hear all of them.
> >>
> >> I for one disagree with Blake - I am a newbie and am quite attracted to
> >> the legacy of Solaris by way of Illumos and OpenIndiana.
> > 
> > Awesome!  By all means we should be checking our rear view and ensuring
> > we honor history rather than  looking forward and making history.
> 
> The two are not mutually exclusive, both are equally important.

Wrong. Looking forward is much more important.  Let Wikipedia
memorialize the past.


-- 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Brian Hechinger]

On 6/21/2011 3:51 PM, Jerry Kemp wrote:

Skuas OS

A bird theme that goes along with the Illumos logo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skuas

And Skuas are predators to penguins. :)

   This ---^

:-D

What's wrong with the OpenIndiana name, btw? (I just signed up for the 
mailing list so missed the beginning of this thread)


-brian

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Dan Swartzendruber]

I have to say, as someone who is far more linux/bsd savvy, I have had a 
tough time trying to evangelize Opensolaris to people for ZFS use in 
SAN/NAS environments (not even trying to address regular server usage), 
and there is for sure a lot of NIH (a friend asked me "I thought ZFS was 
dead, cuz Oracle bought and killed Sun?").  Point being: if we get too 
clever, we won't even get a sniff from folks - that is my main concern 
with using clever names and such...


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Dmitry Kozhinov]

Helios would be nice, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeliOS .

OpenIndiana name already got some recognition, I see no point of 
changing it.

What *is* necessary for branding IMO: a good logo and GNOME theme.

Dmitry.


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Doug Bora]

Another idea:
Zonos (play on words from one feature, zones; zone os shrunk to zonos)


Keeping that in mind: I really like the 'zonos' name.  It reflects the
most famous recent 'killer feature' of Solaris besides zfs and it rolls
off the tongue easily.
zonos/ZONOS is also visually symmetrical which lends itself well to logos
and the like.


Can't say as I like Zonos much myself.  It reminds me too much of Sonos. 
 http://www.sonos.com


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Dan Swartzendruber]

Doug Bora wrote:

Another idea:
Zonos (play on words from one feature, zones; zone os shrunk to zonos)


Keeping that in mind: I really like the 'zonos' name.  It reflects the
most famous recent 'killer feature' of Solaris besides zfs and it rolls
off the tongue easily.
zonos/ZONOS is also visually symmetrical which lends itself well to 
logos

and the like.


Can't say as I like Zonos much myself.  It reminds me too much of 
Sonos.  http://www.sonos.com

Or Zanax or some other OTC drug...

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Matt Connolly]

On 21/06/2011, at 3:54 PM, Ken Gunderson  wrote:

> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 23:03 -0600, Ken Gunderson wrote:
>> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 19:58 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote:
>>> 
>>> I also happen to think "illumos" is an excellent name.  Use it everywhere.
>> 
>> Uh... Excuse me, but what have you been smoking?  Drinking, maybe?
>> I think Illumos is a pretty lame name, nothing against the people who
>> chose it.  I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to
>> "oi", as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is
>> supposed to be an "Open" project (although "Open" has been so misused by
>> marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more
>> recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly
>> following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco).  
>> 
>> But all that is neither here nor there.  The point is that your idea
>> was/is lame.  And that your mother probably dresses you funny...
>> 
>> 
> 
> P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was
> intended to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P
> 
> -- 
> Regards-- Ken Gunderson

Odd sense of humour, Ken... :/
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Volker A. Brandt]

Hello all!


As my finger slowly turns red from pressing the d key again and again
(yes, Emacs VM, the One True MUA, uses d to delete mails), I keep asking
myself:  Does anyone really think that OI (and by extension Illumos) 
will be used or even looked at more just because it is renamed according
to the naming-scheme-du-jour?

Come on.  Illumos is a great name.  Us in-people know how it came
about, and the rest just don't care.  OpenIndiana was perfectly
logical at the time, too.  

"Linux" is not the greatest of names either.  It became what it is
today for any number of reasons, but not because of the name.

Should the domain names, the infrastructure, the mailing lists, etc.
etc. all given up because of some fleeting hope of attracting one
more n00b?

There must be some more pressing issues.


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Blake]

I know that it may seem trivial, but as I look around me, Ubuntu is taking
over the systems world, and it's not because it's the best-engineered OS.
 It's because it's approachable to people with little experience, because it
makes it easy for them to learn the OS, and because the name is memorable.

I don't want this project to suffer the fate of Sun, a company with
brilliant engineers and technology that never got widely adopted because
they couldn't communicate to a broader audience.

I'll jump off this thread for a while now, to save your delete finger some
effort :D


Blake

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Volker A. Brandt  wrote:

> Hello all!
>
>
> As my finger slowly turns red from pressing the d key again and again
> (yes, Emacs VM, the One True MUA, uses d to delete mails), I keep asking
> myself:  Does anyone really think that OI (and by extension Illumos)
> will be used or even looked at more just because it is renamed according
> to the naming-scheme-du-jour?
>
> Come on.  Illumos is a great name.  Us in-people know how it came
> about, and the rest just don't care.  OpenIndiana was perfectly
> logical at the time, too.
>
> "Linux" is not the greatest of names either.  It became what it is
> today for any number of reasons, but not because of the name.
>
> Should the domain names, the infrastructure, the mailing lists, etc.
> etc. all given up because of some fleeting hope of attracting one
> more n00b?
>
> There must be some more pressing issues.
>
>
> Regards -- Volker
> --
> 
> Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
> Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
> Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
> Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
> Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Ken Gunderson]

On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 07:09 +1000, Matt Connolly wrote:
> On 21/06/2011, at 3:54 PM, Ken Gunderson  wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 23:03 -0600, Ken Gunderson wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 19:58 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> I also happen to think "illumos" is an excellent name.  Use it everywhere.
> >> 
> >> Uh... Excuse me, but what have you been smoking?  Drinking, maybe?
> >> I think Illumos is a pretty lame name, nothing against the people who
> >> chose it.  I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to
> >> "oi", as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is
> >> supposed to be an "Open" project (although "Open" has been so misused by
> >> marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more
> >> recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly
> >> following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco).  
> >> 
> >> But all that is neither here nor there.  The point is that your idea
> >> was/is lame.  And that your mother probably dresses you funny...
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was
> > intended to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P
> > 
> > -- 
> > Regards-- Ken Gunderson
> 
> Odd sense of humour, Ken... :/

Perhaps.  But can we please get back to the bike shed now??


-- 
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Volker A. Brandt]

Hi Blake!


You wrote:
> I know that it may seem trivial, but as I look around me, Ubuntu is taking
> over the systems world, and it's not because it's the best-engineered OS.
>  It's because it's approachable to people with little experience, because it
> makes it easy for them to learn the OS, and because the name is memorable.

That depends on how you define "systems world".  I don't know anyone
who uses Ubuntu.  I do know a number of people who use CentOS.  I know
many more who use Mac OS X.

> I don't want this project to suffer the fate of Sun, a company with
> brilliant engineers and technology that never got widely adopted because
> they couldn't communicate to a broader audience.

H... if it had been that easy, I think Sun would have done it.
Water under the bridge, though.
 
But please don't harbor any illusions that it will ever come to a wide-
spread adoption of Illumos/OI.  It will not.  This project will live on
as long as there are people interested in working on it, not just using
it.  That's good.  I can live with that.

> I'll jump off this thread for a while now, to save your delete finger some
> effort :D

(rubbing finger now :-)


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Paul Gress]

On 06/21/11 12:30 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote:

On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 22:46 -0400, Paul Gress wrote:

On 06/20/11 10:32 PM, Magnus wrote:

On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote:

How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun)

Mithros.org is available. I intentionally didn't capitalize the "os". It's less 
awkward to read and to pronounce.

There are some tenuous connections between Mithras&   Sol, the Sun God, in 
ancient Roman art. But it's a simple name, and the domain is available. Don't be a 
b*d and squat on this name if it's not going to be for the productive use of 
this project. ;)



"Moonshine". It goes along with Celestial objects (Moon), and Shine as in Rays 
of Sun.  Also programming at night.

Not to mention bootleg liquor!!



Also you mentioned the Sun has set.  That's why the Moon Shines.

Paul
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Blake]

My coworker just suggested Nova

I like this too - implies both the Sun exploding and things being made new
:)



On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Paul Gress  wrote:

> On 06/21/11 12:30 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 22:46 -0400, Paul Gress wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/20/11 10:32 PM, Magnus wrote:
>>>
 On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote:

> How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun)
>
 Mithros.org is available. I intentionally didn't capitalize the "os".
 It's less awkward to read and to pronounce.

 There are some tenuous connections between Mithras&   Sol, the Sun God,
 in ancient Roman art. But it's a simple name, and the domain is available.
 Don't be a b*d and squat on this name if it's not going to be for the
 productive use of this project. ;)


>>> "Moonshine". It goes along with Celestial objects (Moon), and Shine as in
>>> Rays of Sun.  Also programming at night.
>>>
>> Not to mention bootleg liquor!!
>>
>>
>>  Also you mentioned the Sun has set.  That's why the Moon Shines.
>
> Paul
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Doug Hughes]

On 6/21/2011 8:00 PM, Blake wrote:

My coworker just suggested Nova

I like this too - implies both the Sun exploding and things being made new
:)


or, "doesn't go" in Spanish. ;)

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[dennis sexton]

on Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:55:25 -0400 Gordon Ross wrote

> How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun)

I think just "Flare" is an intriguing suggestion.
I don't think it has to end with O S.

flare is most likely owned by EMC since that is what they call the software that
runs on their Clariion array service processors



-- 
Dennis Sexton
dwsex...@gmail.com
"Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words." St. Francis

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Damian Wojsław]

Hi guys

Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done  
everything to promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software  
community, is going to be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will  
ever take a second look again if I have to go yet another round of  
"So, this *was* OpenSolaris and it *was* OpenIndiana, now it is  
SomeOtherShit."


On the other hand, is branding/naming/whatever more important than  
features, fixes and enhancements?




Best regards
Damian Wojsław


This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Gregory Youngblood]

> Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done everything to 
> promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software community, is going to 
> be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will ever take a second look again 
> if I have to go yet another round of "So, this *was* OpenSolaris and it *was* 
> OpenIndiana, now it is SomeOtherShit."
> 
> On the other hand, is branding/naming/whatever more important than features, 
> fixes and enhancements?

Even though I threw some names out there, I think the only a new name makes any 
sense is if we determine to make an even more pronounced break from Solaris 
since Oracle closed down OpenSolaris. And even then, only if we had something 
major and compelling to differentiate even the system further (new GUI, much 
better drives, or who knows what) from where OI is at now. A name change at 
this point would be an operating system equivalent to a Groupon special  - we 
might see an influx of people trying the system, but odds are they wouldn't 
stick with it, possibly even reporting negative comments about their experience 
and further increasing the difficulty in attracting new users.

The biggest problem I have had with people trying OpenIndiana (and yes, Solaris 
too) has been hardware compatibility. One colleague summarized it this way: 
OpenIndiana, where Linux was in 95. He's referring specifically to drivers for 
various things, especially controllers. He went through 3 or 4 cheap 
controllers between NewEgg and Fry's Electronics, even buying one from NewEgg 
specifically since it was supposed to be compatible with OpenIndiana, and none 
of them worked. He never got a finished installation to play with. [The problem 
was the vendor revved the board, slight change in chipset, but didn't change 
the SKU so NewEgg never noticed the change. It only affected OI, the board 
continued to work just fine in Linux.] 

To those that have history with Linux and no history with Solaris OI feels like 
an old Linux distro, and more work than its worth. That's been a big hurdle to 
over come. That an the GUI feels sluggish, never mind that I could have my box 
loaded down doing all kinds of processing without major impact to the GUI and 
their Linux UIs would freeze or get jerky, Solaris (and OS/OI) "felt" slow.

I recognize that OI is never going to have driver parity with Linux, not unless 
we suddenly see a huge influx of developers helping with drivers, and even then 
it's a pipe dream. I also recognize that OI (and Solaris) is now relegated to 
being a niche player in the grand scheme of things. I hope that changes as OI 
evolves, but let's be frank, it's not likely any time soon, if ever. We have 
some serious hurdles to overcome, not only technical but perception. A name 
change _may_ be helpful overcoming perception, but it will be a flash in the 
pan if it's not accompanied by major technical improvements too. 

PostgreSQL is a great project to look to for inspiration. It's seen slow, 
deliberate, steady progress through the years, despite MySQL's prominence due 
to it being "good enough" for so long. They also changed names a time or two. 

At this point, I think a name change is a premature optimization. Let's get 
further along the technical track and realize some of the code, stability, and 
feature goals first, and then decide if a name change, probably as part of a 
concerted promotion and evangelizing campaign for the "new" system, is the way 
we want to go. We can hang on to all the suggestions so far, even make a place 
to accept new ideas, or we can wait to come up with ideas if that's the 
direction things go later.

Ok, so this went a LOT longer than the quick reply I started out with.. oops. 
Sorry it's so long. I actually edited out a little bit too. :)
Greg
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Nikola M.]

On 06/22/11 09:28 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote:
>> Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done everything 
>> to promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software community, is 
>> going to be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will ever take a second 
>> look again if I have to go yet another round of "So, this *was* OpenSolaris 
>> and it *was* OpenIndiana, now it is SomeOtherShit."
>>
>> On the other hand, is branding/naming/whatever more important than features, 
>> fixes and enhancements?
+1
I would like to share with you some insights about this promotion thing,
since in previious period, I was still giving away 2009.06 CD's together
with OI update and Illumos/S11ex story to tell.
>> At this point, I think a name change is a premature optimization. Let's get 
>> further along the technical track and realize some of the code, stability, 
>> and feature goals first, and then decide if a name change, probably as part 
>> of a concerted promotion and evangelizing campaign for the "new" system, is 
>> the way we want to go. We can hang on to all the suggestions so far, even 
>> make a place to accept new ideas, or we can wait to come up with ideas if 
>> that's the direction things go later.
+1

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Volker A. Brandt]

Nikola M. writes:
> On 06/22/11 09:28 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote:
> >> Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done
> >>everything to promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software
> >>community, is going to be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will ever
> >>take a second look again if I have to go yet another round of "So, this 
> >>*was*
> >>OpenSolaris and it *was* OpenIndiana, now it is SomeOtherShit."

Damian, you are absolutely completely correct.  I totally fully agree!

> I would like to share with you some insights about this promotion thing,
> since in previious period, I was still giving away 2009.06 CD's together
> with OI update and Illumos/S11ex story to tell.

Nikola, this is really a much better idea.  Let's focus on producing
a good stable Live CD and then distribute it as widely as possible.
I would not mind paying 30 Euros for 100 CDs to give away.  I don't
know what the actual costs are, but they would be less per CD as
the total number increases.

At one point, Sun managed to get the OpenSolaris Live CD included in
an issue of a well-known and respected computer magazine here in Germany.
Something like this would be great marketing. :-)


Regards -- Volker
-- 

Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Gabriel de la Cruz]

We all know how good illumos is from a technical point of view, but
executives know nothing but what they can see.
Visual aparence is probably the only thing they can understand, looking
cheap is good for Oracle, bad for us.
It could be really hard to implement illumos based products across an
organization just because Oracle looks better.
As well could be much harder to persuade a customer swaping away from the
darkside.

We need to look pro, because ultimatedly makes "selling our ass" much
easier. We need a sexy looking name, and a trustfull look.

Branding and marketing are top priorities in business, I dont undertand why
to dismiss the task.

Cheers



On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Volker A. Brandt  wrote:

> Nikola M. writes:
> > On 06/22/11 09:28 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote:
> > >> Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done
> > >>everything to promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software
> > >>community, is going to be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will
> ever
> > >>take a second look again if I have to go yet another round of "So, this
> *was*
> > >>OpenSolaris and it *was* OpenIndiana, now it is SomeOtherShit."
>
> Damian, you are absolutely completely correct.  I totally fully agree!
>
> > I would like to share with you some insights about this promotion thing,
> > since in previious period, I was still giving away 2009.06 CD's together
> > with OI update and Illumos/S11ex story to tell.
>
> Nikola, this is really a much better idea.  Let's focus on producing
> a good stable Live CD and then distribute it as widely as possible.
> I would not mind paying 30 Euros for 100 CDs to give away.  I don't
> know what the actual costs are, but they would be less per CD as
> the total number increases.
>
> At one point, Sun managed to get the OpenSolaris Live CD included in
> an issue of a well-known and respected computer magazine here in Germany.
> Something like this would be great marketing. :-)
>
>
> Regards -- Volker
> --
> 
> Volker A. Brandt   Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
> Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
> Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de
> Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513  Schuhgröße: 46
> Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Jonathan Adams]

Not that I wanted to get involved in this at all ...

Therbeeos

from https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Helios (ish)
"Therbeeo" is one of the horses said to pull the sun across the sky,
it's 3 syllables, might even pass some kind of phonetic translation
into other languages.

I'd prefer not to change the short name identifier for build number in
the uname field though, for when there are packages that use the ident
to identify OS version ...

At the end of the day though, we are arguing over the colour of the
bike shed ... I love Solaris, always have, always will ... but it's
not easy to use.

On 22 June 2011 10:22, Gabriel de la Cruz  wrote:
> We all know how good illumos is from a technical point of view, but
> executives know nothing but what they can see.
> Visual aparence is probably the only thing they can understand, looking
> cheap is good for Oracle, bad for us.
> It could be really hard to implement illumos based products across an
> organization just because Oracle looks better.
> As well could be much harder to persuade a customer swaping away from the
> darkside.
>
> We need to look pro, because ultimatedly makes "selling our ass" much
> easier. We need a sexy looking name, and a trustfull look.
>
> Branding and marketing are top priorities in business, I dont undertand why
> to dismiss the task.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Volker A. Brandt  wrote:
>
>> Nikola M. writes:
>> > On 06/22/11 09:28 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote:
>> > >> Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done
>> > >>everything to promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software
>> > >>community, is going to be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will
>> ever
>> > >>take a second look again if I have to go yet another round of "So, this
>> *was*
>> > >>OpenSolaris and it *was* OpenIndiana, now it is SomeOtherShit."
>>
>> Damian, you are absolutely completely correct.  I totally fully agree!
>>
>> > I would like to share with you some insights about this promotion thing,
>> > since in previious period, I was still giving away 2009.06 CD's together
>> > with OI update and Illumos/S11ex story to tell.
>>
>> Nikola, this is really a much better idea.  Let's focus on producing
>> a good stable Live CD and then distribute it as widely as possible.
>> I would not mind paying 30 Euros for 100 CDs to give away.  I don't
>> know what the actual costs are, but they would be less per CD as
>> the total number increases.
>>
>> At one point, Sun managed to get the OpenSolaris Live CD included in
>> an issue of a well-known and respected computer magazine here in Germany.
>> Something like this would be great marketing. :-)
>>
>>
>> Regards -- Volker
>> --
>> 
>> Volker A. Brandt               Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
>> Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH                   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
>> Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim                     Email: v...@bb-c.de
>> Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513              Schuhgröße: 46
>> Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt
>>
>> ___
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>> http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
>>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Bayard Bell]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 22 Jun 2011, at 09:58, Volker A. Brandt wrote:

> Nikola M. writes:
>> On 06/22/11 09:28 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote:
 Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done
 everything to promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software
 community, is going to be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will ever
 take a second look again if I have to go yet another round of "So, this 
 *was*
 OpenSolaris and it *was* OpenIndiana, now it is SomeOtherShit."
> 
> Damian, you are absolutely completely correct.  I totally fully agree!
> 
>> I would like to share with you some insights about this promotion thing,
>> since in previious period, I was still giving away 2009.06 CD's together
>> with OI update and Illumos/S11ex story to tell.
> 
> Nikola, this is really a much better idea.  Let's focus on producing
> a good stable Live CD and then distribute it as widely as possible.
> I would not mind paying 30 Euros for 100 CDs to give away.  I don't
> know what the actual costs are, but they would be less per CD as
> the total number increases.
> 
> At one point, Sun managed to get the OpenSolaris Live CD included in
> an issue of a well-known and respected computer magazine here in Germany.
> Something like this would be great marketing. :-)

Amidst this outpouring of cratylist fallacy, I tend to the views above: talking 
about marketing without first identifying your targets of opportunity is folly. 
The important question is where there is immediate growth potential, what gets 
us there, and which targets promise to help most with accumulation. Revisiting 
some of the comments made at the Illumos meet-up, some consideration should be 
given to existing deployments of Solaris that aren't supported or economically 
viable with the sharp cut-off of Sun4u support in Solaris 11 or under Oracle's 
licensing terms.

Sun also had a tremendous presence in universities, and this was valuable not 
just because computer science students developed a Solaris affinity but because 
you had people who would push the operating system in intriguing ways and 
provide very solid bug reports or enhancement requests if and when they had 
problems. I'm not averse to the idea of trying to pick up users from people 
running Linux, but I think there's a tremendous opportunity to consolidate the 
previous Sun base, particularly for people who are looking for an actively 
developed OS to run on older kit.

More valuable than naming the OS is having solid localisation support for 
places like Brazil, India, China, and Russia, where there are large pools of 
engineering talent and interest in open-source software.

These are suggestions sketched out for exemplary purposes, emphasising the 
fundamental point that I think implicit but clear in Volker's suggestion: 
branding and marketing require a notion of targeting and some hard work to back 
up that decision-making process, and I think a thread like this needs more of 
that kind of bloody-mindedness. I think the objections expressed by Damian are 
on target for similar reasons: re-branding without having a clear sense of 
target audience, determinate recruitment strategies, or clear metrics for 
evaluating progress looks an awful lot like churning and frothing that 
undermines what progress has been made.

Cheers,
Bayard
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[peter jones]

The implied brand associations are free open enterprise which has primary
has been aimed at providing opportunities for multi domestic integrators or
resellers in SME.Clearly a wider community is also present.Brand values are
tied with proof of concept,stability/reliability,and a unrestricted
workbench for innovation.

You may consider sub branding releases upon themes ( e.g. Oi
-saturn,mars,moon rock,solar flare, etc).


Hope this is a good starter for discussion.


On 22 June 2011 11:25, Bayard Bell  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 22 Jun 2011, at 09:58, Volker A. Brandt wrote:
>
> > Nikola M. writes:
> >> On 06/22/11 09:28 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote:
>  Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done
>  everything to promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software
>  community, is going to be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will
> ever
>  take a second look again if I have to go yet another round of "So,
> this *was*
>  OpenSolaris and it *was* OpenIndiana, now it is SomeOtherShit."
> >
> > Damian, you are absolutely completely correct.  I totally fully agree!
> >
> >> I would like to share with you some insights about this promotion thing,
> >> since in previious period, I was still giving away 2009.06 CD's together
> >> with OI update and Illumos/S11ex story to tell.
> >
> > Nikola, this is really a much better idea.  Let's focus on producing
> > a good stable Live CD and then distribute it as widely as possible.
> > I would not mind paying 30 Euros for 100 CDs to give away.  I don't
> > know what the actual costs are, but they would be less per CD as
> > the total number increases.
> >
> > At one point, Sun managed to get the OpenSolaris Live CD included in
> > an issue of a well-known and respected computer magazine here in Germany.
> > Something like this would be great marketing. :-)
>
> Amidst this outpouring of cratylist fallacy, I tend to the views above:
> talking about marketing without first identifying your targets of
> opportunity is folly. The important question is where there is immediate
> growth potential, what gets us there, and which targets promise to help most
> with accumulation. Revisiting some of the comments made at the Illumos
> meet-up, some consideration should be given to existing deployments of
> Solaris that aren't supported or economically viable with the sharp cut-off
> of Sun4u support in Solaris 11 or under Oracle's licensing terms.
>
> Sun also had a tremendous presence in universities, and this was valuable
> not just because computer science students developed a Solaris affinity but
> because you had people who would push the operating system in intriguing
> ways and provide very solid bug reports or enhancement requests if and when
> they had problems. I'm not averse to the idea of trying to pick up users
> from people running Linux, but I think there's a tremendous opportunity to
> consolidate the previous Sun base, particularly for people who are looking
> for an actively developed OS to run on older kit.
>
> More valuable than naming the OS is having solid localisation support for
> places like Brazil, India, China, and Russia, where there are large pools of
> engineering talent and interest in open-source software.
>
> These are suggestions sketched out for exemplary purposes, emphasising the
> fundamental point that I think implicit but clear in Volker's suggestion:
> branding and marketing require a notion of targeting and some hard work to
> back up that decision-making process, and I think a thread like this needs
> more of that kind of bloody-mindedness. I think the objections expressed by
> Damian are on target for similar reasons: re-branding without having a clear
> sense of target audience, determinate recruitment strategies, or clear
> metrics for evaluating progress looks an awful lot like churning and
> frothing that undermines what progress has been made.
>
> Cheers,
> Bayard
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.12 (Darwin)
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> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Christopher Chan]

On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 04:27 AM, Dmitry Kozhinov wrote:

Helios would be nice, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeliOS .

OpenIndiana name already got some recognition, I see no point of
changing it.
What *is* necessary for branding IMO: a good logo and GNOME theme.



The Linux world is aflame with the 'crappiness' of GNOME. I think 
getting KDE in would be a better idea.


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Richard L. Hamilton]

If we're going to all toss names around, how about
"phoebus" (one of the appelations of Apollo).  From the
Wikipedia article on Apollo:
> Phoebus (<> /ˈfiːbəs/ fee-bəs; Φοίβος, Phoibos, literally "radiant")

There's a number of tech things with that name, but I don't think
any of them is an operating system.

On Jun 21, 2011, at 12:54 AM, jaimef wrote:

> BigRed 
> 
> Marion Hakanson  wrote:
> 
>> What's wrong with just "illumos"?  If you need to distinguish, just use
>> "illumos, the kernel" or "illumos, OS/Net" vs "illumos, the distribution".
>> The original "OpenSolaris, the distribution" was based on "OpenSolaris,
>> the kernel", and other distributions based on "Opensolaris, the kernel"
>> did exist.
>> 
>> One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. "illumos desktop",
>> "illumos server", or "illumos live usb", if needed.
>> 
>> Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from "illumos, the kernel", but it
>> seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of "OpenSolaris, the
>> kernel" for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base.
>> 
>> Do we really need a different name for the "main" distribution?  I personally
>> find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm
>> using a lot harder.  I have to give a whole family tree history instead of
>> just saying, "Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11."
>> 
>> I also happen to think "illumos" is an excellent name.  Use it everywhere.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Marion
>> 
>> 
>> 
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-- 
The waitress asked, "Do you want lemon or no lemon with that iced tea?"
Naturally, I said "yes", and then burst out laughing, because there simply
wasn't any other answer in Boolean logic.  She didn't get it, but I got
the lemon, which I wanted anyway.  Later, I realized a quantum computer
could have offered another answer: Schroedinger's Lemon!

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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Richard L. Hamilton]

Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

Those young startups and newbie engineers would have to
season for a few years to get my respect anyway.  About the time
they stop thinking they're l337 doodz or some such nonsense, they
might _appreciate_ that function > fashion, and not regard their
betters as "anathema".

Unless one can come up with something extraordinarily memorable
and informative, yet short, just stick with a three syllable upper
limit, and non-Welsh spelling. :-)  CoolIX, CuteOS, whatever...

On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:32 PM, Blake wrote:

> I agree that Sun's engineering legacy is impressive.
> 
> Unfortunately, the words 'Sun' and 'Solaris' are anathema to most young
> startups and newbie engineers.  Rather than forcing a history lesson on
> them, I feel we should look forward when evangelizing the platform.
> 
> Blake
> 
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Jake Young  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Ken Gunderson >> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:11 -0400, Jake wrote:
 I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it
>> is
>>> the opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is
>>> totally lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was.
 
 I think a Sun reference would be fitting.
>>> 
>>> Why?  The Sun has set some time ago.  There's nothing to see here now.
>>> Time to move along, move along.  Perhaps you're thinking that a
>>> reference to Sun obscure enough to avoid a lawsuit would in some way be
>>> attractive to business.  I think the opposite - anyone who's been around
>>> for a while has their Oracle horror story so why would we want to
>>> associate.  And by Oracle, I'm referencing the corporate entity, not
>>> contributing individuals who happen to be employed by same.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Regards-- Ken Gunderson
>>> 
>>> One of the biggest appeals of OI/Illumos to me is that it is a
>> continuation
>> of the legacy of Sun Solaris' high standards of engineering excellence. My
>> personal view of the open sourcing of Solaris 11 is that someone in Sun
>> wanted to make sure that the OS that had so much invested in it would have
>> an opportunity to continue to flourish.  Things weren't going so well for
>> Sun back in 2005, it was pretty clear that if the Sun hardware wasn't going
>> to make enough money, the OS development would be impacted severely.  The
>> roots of Solaris go back to the beginning of
>> 
>> Not that Sun was such a great company, but there were a lot of fantastic
>> developers there.  Anyone I talked to that knew the kernel development
>> teams, said something along the lines of "they're the smartest people I
>> know".  Sun incubated that talent and tried to make its money from hardware
>> sales.
>> 
>> There are still a lot of fantastic people that stayed on when Oracle took
>> over.  What is scaring everyone is what will Oracle do with Solaris in 5
>> years, will there even be a Solaris 12?
>> 
>> Maybe someday, OI/Illumos will not be seen as the fork...
>> 
>> I think its appropriate to honor the company that brought us this great OS!
>> 
>> Jake
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-- 
The waitress asked, "Do you want lemon or no lemon with that iced tea?"
Naturally, I said "yes", and then burst out laughing, because there simply
wasn't any other answer in Boolean logic.  She didn't get it, but I got
the lemon, which I wanted anyway.  Later, I realized a quantum computer
could have offered another answer: Schroedinger's Lemon!


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Richard L. Hamilton]

On Jun 22, 2011, at 3:28 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote:

>> Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done everything 
>> to promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software community, is 
>> going to be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will ever take a second 
>> look again if I have to go yet another round of "So, this *was* OpenSolaris 
>> and it *was* OpenIndiana, now it is SomeOtherShit."
>> 
>> On the other hand, is branding/naming/whatever more important than features, 
>> fixes and enhancements?
> 
> Even though I threw some names out there, I think the only a new name makes 
> any sense is if we determine to make an even more pronounced break from 
> Solaris since Oracle closed down OpenSolaris. And even then, only if we had 
> something major and compelling to differentiate even the system further (new 
> GUI, much better drives, or who knows what) from where OI is at now. A name 
> change at this point would be an operating system equivalent to a Groupon 
> special  - we might see an influx of people trying the system, but odds are 
> they wouldn't stick with it, possibly even reporting negative comments about 
> their experience and further increasing the difficulty in attracting new 
> users.
> 
> The biggest problem I have had with people trying OpenIndiana (and yes, 
> Solaris too) has been hardware compatibility. One colleague summarized it 
> this way: OpenIndiana, where Linux was in 95. He's referring specifically to 
> drivers for various things, especially controllers. He went through 3 or 4 
> cheap controllers between NewEgg and Fry's Electronics, even buying one from 
> NewEgg specifically since it was supposed to be compatible with OpenIndiana, 
> and none of them worked. He never got a finished installation to play with. 
> [The problem was the vendor revved the board, slight change in chipset, but 
> didn't change the SKU so NewEgg never noticed the change. It only affected 
> OI, the board continued to work just fine in Linux.] 
> 
> To those that have history with Linux and no history with Solaris OI feels 
> like an old Linux distro, and more work than its worth. That's been a big 
> hurdle to over come. That an the GUI feels sluggish, never mind that I could 
> have my box loaded down doing all kinds of processing without major impact to 
> the GUI and their Linux UIs would freeze or get jerky, Solaris (and OS/OI) 
> "felt" slow.
> 
> I recognize that OI is never going to have driver parity with Linux, not 
> unless we suddenly see a huge influx of developers helping with drivers, and 
> even then it's a pipe dream. I also recognize that OI (and Solaris) is now 
> relegated to being a niche player in the grand scheme of things. I hope that 
> changes as OI evolves, but let's be frank, it's not likely any time soon, if 
> ever. We have some serious hurdles to overcome, not only technical but 
> perception. A name change _may_ be helpful overcoming perception, but it will 
> be a flash in the pan if it's not accompanied by major technical improvements 
> too. 

Funny, I've bought a SAS controller (LSI) and a Gbit Ethernet board
(Intel) that both worked just fine on _SPARC_ even, and the Ethernet
even worked on Solaris 9 (although I did have to scrounge for an
open source driver there, since the e1000g driver wasn't in Solaris 9).
(I don't know if I could boot over the net on the GbE since the
card has no fCode, but I don't really care, since if I needed to
that badly, the old interfaces are still in place.)

Point being that if one is careful enough about compatibility (to
include sticking with brands that don't randomly juggle chipsets on
otherwise unchanged motherboard part numbers), and checks the HCL too,
one can do ok.  Just not on whatever random hardware one happens to
have.

Solaris (and offspring, by and large) are first and foremost
_server_ OSs, where hardware choice is purposely restricted by
considerations of reliability ahead of cost.  On suitable hardware,
it's quite usable as a desktop OS (if not necessarily the friendliest
choice in that role), but it's not likely to be any time soon that
you can just throw it on whatever and have it run.

I must be an elitist pig or something, but I don't see that as a
problem.  What good do sheer numbers of users do if most of them
are too clueless to figure out hardware compatibility?  Scarcely one
in 10,000 of that sort would be able to write a line of code anyway.
If you've got to play this grow or perish game, then play it with
people who bring some _clue_ to the table.  Until you've got critical
mass of them, the rest are just bandwidth thieves anyway.  Probably
oxygen thieves too, but that's just my social Darwinism mood speaking.
(Oops, was that my "outer voice"? :-)
-- 
The waitress asked, "Do you want lemon or no lemon with that iced tea?"
Naturally, I said "yes", and then burst out laughing, because there simply
wasn't any other answer in Boolean logic.  She didn't get it, but I got
the l

Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Gregory Youngblood]

On Jun 22, 2011, at 5:48 PM, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:

>> The biggest problem I have had with people trying OpenIndiana (and yes, 
>> Solaris too) has been hardware compatibility. One colleague summarized it 
>> this way: OpenIndiana, where Linux was in 95. He's referring specifically to 
>> drivers for various things, especially controllers. He went through 3 or 4 
>> cheap controllers between NewEgg and Fry's Electronics, even buying one from 
>> NewEgg specifically since it was supposed to be compatible with OpenIndiana, 
>> and none of them worked. He never got a finished installation to play with. 
>> [The problem was the vendor revved the board, slight change in chipset, but 
>> didn't change the SKU so NewEgg never noticed the change. It only affected 
>> OI, the board continued to work just fine in Linux.] 

> 
> Funny, I've bought a SAS controller (LSI) and a Gbit Ethernet board
> (Intel) that both worked just fine on _SPARC_ even, and the Ethernet
> even worked on Solaris 9 (although I did have to scrounge for an
> open source driver there, since the e1000g driver wasn't in Solaris 9).
> (I don't know if I could boot over the net on the GbE since the
> card has no fCode, but I don't really care, since if I needed to
> that badly, the old interfaces are still in place.)
> 
> Point being that if one is careful enough about compatibility (to
> include sticking with brands that don't randomly juggle chipsets on
> otherwise unchanged motherboard part numbers), and checks the HCL too,
> one can do ok.  Just not on whatever random hardware one happens to
> have.

That's just it - at least one of the cards he purchased in an effort to set up 
an OpenSolaris or OpenIndiana file server came directly off the HCL, 
brand/chipset/etc. The other cards were too. 

This was a gentleman that had at least 7 years working with server hardware and 
probably over 15 years working with computer hardware in general, in other 
words he was not a n00b. He used the HCL when selecting the hardware he tried 
to use. He followed reports about specific cards with chipsets that supposedly 
worked, and ultimately also tried purchasing the exact brand and model in the 
HCL itself. Despite doing all the right things, he didn't end up with a 
functional system, and after several days got fed up and moved on. 

So the glib answer of being "careful enough about compatibility" and dismissing 
people's bad experience is part of the problem that has to be overcome.

I will admit the extent of his experience was atypical, I've been able to get 
Solaris, OpenSolaris, and OpenIndiana to work on just about every computer I've 
tried with only one real exception (a netbook the DDU reported 0 driver 
problems in the live image, but the install didn't have working networking 
(wired or wireless) and some other faults).

Like he said, [OpenSolaris/OpenIndiana] - where Linux was at in 1995. And based 
on his experience, he's right. He did what _should_have_ worked and it didn't.





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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Gregory Youngblood]

On Jun 22, 2011, at 5:48 PM, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:

> I must be an elitist pig or something, but I don't see that as a
> problem.  What good do sheer numbers of users do if most of them
> are too clueless to figure out hardware compatibility?  Scarcely one
> in 10,000 of that sort would be able to write a line of code anyway.
> If you've got to play this grow or perish game, then play it with
> people who bring some _clue_ to the table.  Until you've got critical
> mass of them, the rest are just bandwidth thieves anyway.  Probably
> oxygen thieves too, but that's just my social Darwinism mood speaking.
> (Oops, was that my "outer voice"? :-)

By the way, this guy I mentioned - he's a developer. So, yes, he can write a 
line of code.

He would have been a good addition to the community and not an "oxygen thie[f]".


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Richard L. Hamilton]

On Jun 22, 2011, at 9:14 PM, Gregory Youngblood wrote:

> 
> On Jun 22, 2011, at 5:48 PM, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
> 
>>> The biggest problem I have had with people trying OpenIndiana (and yes, 
>>> Solaris too) has been hardware compatibility. One colleague summarized it 
>>> this way: OpenIndiana, where Linux was in 95. He's referring specifically 
>>> to drivers for various things, especially controllers. He went through 3 or 
>>> 4 cheap controllers between NewEgg and Fry's Electronics, even buying one 
>>> from NewEgg specifically since it was supposed to be compatible with 
>>> OpenIndiana, and none of them worked. He never got a finished installation 
>>> to play with. [The problem was the vendor revved the board, slight change 
>>> in chipset, but didn't change the SKU so NewEgg never noticed the change. 
>>> It only affected OI, the board continued to work just fine in Linux.] 
> 
>> 
>> Funny, I've bought a SAS controller (LSI) and a Gbit Ethernet board
>> (Intel) that both worked just fine on _SPARC_ even, and the Ethernet
>> even worked on Solaris 9 (although I did have to scrounge for an
>> open source driver there, since the e1000g driver wasn't in Solaris 9).
>> (I don't know if I could boot over the net on the GbE since the
>> card has no fCode, but I don't really care, since if I needed to
>> that badly, the old interfaces are still in place.)
>> 
>> Point being that if one is careful enough about compatibility (to
>> include sticking with brands that don't randomly juggle chipsets on
>> otherwise unchanged motherboard part numbers), and checks the HCL too,
>> one can do ok.  Just not on whatever random hardware one happens to
>> have.
> 
> That's just it - at least one of the cards he purchased in an effort to set 
> up an OpenSolaris or OpenIndiana file server came directly off the HCL, 
> brand/chipset/etc. The other cards were too. 
> 
> This was a gentleman that had at least 7 years working with server hardware 
> and probably over 15 years working with computer hardware in general, in 
> other words he was not a n00b. He used the HCL when selecting the hardware he 
> tried to use. He followed reports about specific cards with chipsets that 
> supposedly worked, and ultimately also tried purchasing the exact brand and 
> model in the HCL itself. Despite doing all the right things, he didn't end up 
> with a functional system, and after several days got fed up and moved on. 
> 
> So the glib answer of being "careful enough about compatibility" and 
> dismissing people's bad experience is part of the problem that has to be 
> overcome.
> 
> I will admit the extent of his experience was atypical, I've been able to get 
> Solaris, OpenSolaris, and OpenIndiana to work on just about every computer 
> I've tried with only one real exception (a netbook the DDU reported 0 driver 
> problems in the live image, but the install didn't have working networking 
> (wired or wireless) and some other faults).
> 
> Like he said, [OpenSolaris/OpenIndiana] - where Linux was at in 1995. And 
> based on his experience, he's right. He did what _should_have_ worked and it 
> didn't.

Pending the magic availability of infinite drivers, the simple answer
would be a better HCL.  As in, track those brands that change
chipsets without changing part numbers, and whenever something
_doesn't_ work that the HCL said did work, encourage people to report
that too, preferably with any available distinguishing information
(revision number or whatever).

I think the basic problem is that x86 motherboard manufacturers,
except those that are specifically targeting high stability
uses (servers, for instance), assume that if they've made sure
it runs the latest Windows, their job is done, and nobody _other_
than the board manufacturers can possibly keep track of
each new board.  No _one_ person, or even small team (lacking
a budget to buy samples of everything regularly) can.  But an
aggregate of reports would sure help.

There's also the "Oracle Device Detection Tool".

Or if one needed something of one's own, one could roll a bootable
DVD or thumb drive distro, that hopefully stores might allow one
to try, as a compatibility test for the hardware.  Doesn't do any
good for build-it-yourself or mailorder of course, but those are
pretty much caveat emptor anyway.  At least it's more tools...


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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[Gregory Youngblood]

On Jun 22, 2011, at 6:52 PM, Richard L. Hamilton wrote:

> Pending the magic availability of infinite drivers, the simple answer
> would be a better HCL.

That would be the best option I think. And goes right to the heart of 
addressing this.

If memory serves, his first attempts were with OpenSolaris before the Oracle 
acquisition of Sun and his second (last, hopefully not final) attempt was with 
oi 147 I think. I don't believe the Community HCL was up then either, but I 
could be mistaken on that part.



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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana

[David Brodbeck]

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Gregory Youngblood
wrote:

> That's just it - at least one of the cards he purchased in an effort to set
> up an OpenSolaris or OpenIndiana file server came directly off the HCL,
> brand/chipset/etc. The other cards were too.
>
> This was a gentleman that had at least 7 years working with server hardware
> and probably over 15 years working with computer hardware in general, in
> other words he was not a n00b. He used the HCL when selecting the hardware
> he tried to use. He followed reports about specific cards with chipsets that
> supposedly worked, and ultimately also tried purchasing the exact brand and
> model in the HCL itself. Despite doing all the right things, he didn't end
> up with a functional system, and after several days got fed up and moved on.
>

This is in a nutshell why I'm eagerly watching ZFS on FreeBSD get better.
 FreeBSD has much better support for common disk controllers, probably
because they're not hoping to sell own-brand hardware to end users.

-- 
David Brodbeck
System Administrator, Linguistics
University of Washington
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