Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
I'd switch to the forked version immediately. In all honesty, who wouldn't like to see Oracle out of this equation. It could be very healthy for OpenSolaris or whatever it'll be called when forked. I don't want to see Oracle out of the equation, their is no reason. I really don't see what all the fuss is about, Oracle already said OpenSolaris will continue, the website is still on, development on the opensolaris code by Oracle is still being done. and because OpensSolaris free cd shipping has halted for the moment does spell is't the end of OpenSolaris, Oacle also halted the sale of solaris DVD for awhile that does not mean it's the end of solaris, it mentions it's because of Oracle procurement. I understand Oracle is currently busy integrating a colossal company sun was and that takes time, a lot of time. And just because opensolaris release is delayed, I'm sure, it's because of Oracle procurement does not mean it's the end, Other distros from freebsd to debain also have delayed numerous releases and they are still going strong. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
I hope you find this funny. I know I did: http://www.amazingaustralia.com.au/kiwi_jokes.htm -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
OK, understood! Still, as mentioned elsewhere... Different Company Cultures of communicating things, that's all, we're seeing... And, yes, sadly, that's generating confusion and uncertainty... Matthias -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Erlan Sergaziev erlan.sergaz...@gmail.com An: matth...@pfuetzner.de Cc: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Gesendet: 15.4.'10, 19:38 LOL. If builds were regular before and suddenly stopped it's a good sign that Oracle eh ... is about to deliver :) Do you actually read, what's written here? I understand the heated debate here, but, come on, let's not loose some sense of humor. This was my attempt to make a joke (cp. pregnancy). Anyhow, my point was that Oracle's silence caused such a situation that close community members (perhaps even OGB) have to resort to these funny clues to guess what's coming. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Please. please please guys, osol-friends and discussers, would you all please come back to a professional communication and cooperation and state and comment busineeslike and objective. Please, stop insulting people wheter it is or not your opinion, stop the offenses, personal affronts, insultng others, and be kind! This is really getting absurd: in 4 years of opensolaris releases heise.de almost never talked about it, but this discussions here was worth a long article - and this does not make things better but worse. The bad attitude of the official discussions here causes heise to snear. Sorry, it is in german: http://www.heise.de/open/meldung/Unruhe-in-der-OpenSolaris-Community-978673.html thanks, claudia consultant at Sun On 04/16/10 05:39, Ian Collins wrote: On 04/16/10 03:32 PM, Elvis Presley wrote: It is inevitable that many will always compare the 'open'ness of 'open'solaris with that of fedora/rhel. To say that you fear management reprisals for 'open'ly discussing 'open'solaris signals almost complete death of opensolaris to me. :( Maybe, Mr Anonymous Coward, you should learn to read what was written before commenting on it. -- ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
The bad attitude of the official discussions here causes heise to snear. Sorry, it is in german: I read German. The article is largely about Oracle's lack of openness. Nothing in the article leads me to believe that people expressing on this forum their unease resulting from Oracle's failure to communicate has harmed OpenSolaris. When the Soviet Union existed, it was widely criticized for its lack of openness and predilection for secrecy, compared to Western countries like the US. Why should it be any different with corporations? What we have here is a public relations fiasco. Part of the job of corporations is to handle public relations. Oracle is failing at this task. You can't blame the messenger, people posting on this forum, for that. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Well we have heard from one of the OGB members about forking this project to save it from the hands of [b]HOracle[/b] the multi-headed, voracious, open source devouring monster. So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? Been nice knowing Solaris, I will continue to love the old Solaris in its limited non-security updated form and in the beautiful SXCE b130 way also. Thank the people at Blastwave and Sunfreepacks for giving us the means to keep the legacy running while the newborn gets aborted. Love to see some fast running on this to save the day. Yes, PLEAZE, lets get this forking-thing on the Road now ppl :) I miss our (still) recent Solaris/OpenSolaris community, when it was s enthusiastic about helping new/old users to the OpenSolaris OS experience. As far as any enthusiastic support\help from Oracle goes ?, well you'd have better luck having a conversation with a piece of crusty toast. ! sheesh. I don't want a world where your only Open choice is just Linux Torvalds, or just Linux Torvalds, or just Linux Torvalds, or just Lin.., oh ya, we also have BSD too, and besides, they could BOTH all help us too, no offense intended. But just look at what Sun/Solaris has given the world of Unix, ... And our WORLD of UNIX/NetOS's would never be the same without the Sunshine of an OpenSolaris in it. So, if Oracle doesn't know how to walk with this, then why don't WE ALL just RUN with it ? ya know fork-it, and fork-'dem anyway. nuff said ! :) -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
http://www.businessweek.com/idg/2010-04-15/opensolaris-leaders-unnerved-by-oracle-silence.html Right ON !!!, brothers and sisters, ... :) -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
I'd switch to the forked version immediately. In all honesty, who wouldn't like to see Oracle out of this equation. It could be very healthy for OpenSolaris or whatever it'll be called when forked. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
What are you going to do with the fork? Solaris is dependent on the briliant engineers from what was Sun, no external coders have stepped upp and supplied many new features, mainly fixes only. You sure can make your own distro but I'll think the only way forward for the success of opensolaris is one distro supported by what's now oracle. Who is otherwise going to keep the fork going, just using and updating other OSS packades bundled with the OpenSolaris kernel is not enought. And you already have several different distros with the OpenSolaris kernel. You want the good stuff from Oracle working together with your own updated software but no dependency on Oracle? I'll wait a bit longer and see, it will probably be changes I don't like it might not be the end of the world. Henrik http://sparcv9.blogspot.com On 16 apr 2010, at 18.11, Michael Lee mle...@gmail.com wrote: I'd switch to the forked version immediately. In all honesty, who wouldn't like to see Oracle out of this equation. It could be very healthy for OpenSolaris or whatever it'll be called when forked. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
I must say though, hearing that the dev builds have stopped being made public sounds encouraging, it could be that 2010.04 is on it's way! LOL. If builds were regular before and suddenly stopped it's a good sign that Oracle eh ... is about to deliver :) I hope Oracle people do understand what kind of hassle they're creating by keeping silent about osol future. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
You (Erlan Sergaziev) wrote: I must say though, hearing that the dev builds have stopped being made public sounds encouraging, it could be that 2010.04 is on it's way! LOL. If builds were regular before and suddenly stopped it's a good sign that Oracle eh ... is about to deliver :) Do you actually read, what's written here? Same happened before 2009.06 was delivered! That's, why he calls it a good sign! I hope Oracle people do understand what kind of hassle they're creating by keeping silent about osol future. As I stated: It's not Oracle that needs to adopt. It's us here, that need to UNDERSTAND the difference in outbound messaging between Sun and Oracle! Matthias -- Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER | Du warst doch mal roman- Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | tisch. Dafür bin ich D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487 | jetzt rheumatisch. K. Germany | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | Branagh, Peter's Friends ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
LOL. If builds were regular before and suddenly stopped it's a good sign that Oracle eh ... is about to deliver :) Do you actually read, what's written here? I understand the heated debate here, but, come on, let's not loose some sense of humor. This was my attempt to make a joke (cp. pregnancy). Anyhow, my point was that Oracle's silence caused such a situation that close community members (perhaps even OGB) have to resort to these funny clues to guess what's coming. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Chad Welsh unixphr...@mac.com wrote: Well we have heard from one of the OGB members about forking this project to save it from the hands of [b]HOracle[/b] the multi-headed, voracious, open source devouring monster. So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? Anyone can. And has been able to for almost 5 years. And they may not necessarily be what you're thinking of in terms of a fork, but Nexenta/OSUNIX/Belenix and the other distro efforts would all welcome some help, I'm sure. The question is why fork in the first place? Preventing the primary sponsor of the project from being able to contribute because you don't understand their business seems a poor choice. It's also hugely negative rather than pushing forward in new areas. What can you manage to do better that is worth the damage down by a fork? (I can see different technical decisions as being valid drivers for going along an alternative path. But I think you need to clearly formulate your goals before deciding how to implement your strategy.) -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
I am interested in very clear terms what the pros and cons of a FORK is from a technical point of view? Support for a successful operating system is very roughly composed of the following Technical development ISV development and partner input IHV development and partner input Marketing, branding,and strategy Support User community/customers Resources/working capital To differentiate with a distinctive business model is difficult but it must be clear to the customer/user.Sun/oracle offers a great advantage over other os's in that it provides access to active customers base.clearly to fork technically it would be weighed up against the other issues. The third way would be to be proactive...present a business case to oracle as a separate business enity.There are many exciting options -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Answer: TOO high. %mab On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Peter Jones bloosk...@netscape.net wrote: I am interested in very clear terms what the pros and cons of a FORK is from a technical point of view? Support for a successful operating system is very roughly composed of the following Technical development ISV development and partner input IHV development and partner input Marketing, branding,and strategy Support User community/customers Resources/working capital To differentiate with a distinctive business model is difficult but it must be clear to the customer/user.Sun/oracle offers a great advantage over other os's in that it provides access to active customers base.clearly to fork technically it would be weighed up against the other issues. The third way would be to be proactive...present a business case to oracle as a separate business enity.There are many exciting options -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Well we have heard from one of the OGB members about forking this project to save it from the hands of [b]HOracle[/b] the multi-headed, voracious, open source devouring monster. So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? Been nice knowing Solaris, I will continue to love the old Solaris in its limited non-security updated form and in the beautiful SXCE b130 way also. Thank the people at Blastwave and Sunfreepacks for giving us the means to keep the legacy running while the newborn gets aborted. Love to see some fast running on this to save the day. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Well we have heard from one of the OGB members about forking this project to save it from the hands of [b]HOracle[/b] the multi-headed, voracious, open source devouring monster. So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? Been nice knowing Solaris, I will continue to love the old Solaris in its limited non-security updated form and in the beautiful SXCE b130 way also. Thank the people at Blastwave and Sunfreepacks for giving us the means to keep the legacy running while the newborn gets aborted. Love to see some fast running on this to save the day. Don't overreact just yet. I may be the bad cop for raising the flag that says fork but my primary purpose is to raise awareness and take some action other than making popcorn and watching people post messages that all say Where is 2010.03 ? over and over. I don't like sitting on the sidelines. As for legacy, yes, we keep supporting those production datacenters running Solaris 8 upwards and you can expect a new GCC 4.4.3 any day real soon now : http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-testresults/2010-04/msg00431.html As well as a 64-bit ready Apache + MySQL etc etc etc. -- Dennis Clarke dcla...@opensolaris.ca - Email related to the open source Solaris dcla...@blastwave.org - Email related to open source for Solaris ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Chad Welsh unixphr...@mac.com wrote: Well we have heard from one of the OGB members about forking this project to save it from the hands of [b]HOracle[/b] the multi-headed, voracious, open source devouring monster. So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? A full fork can only be made if the internationalisation parts of libc are released as open source. Either we have to call the TOG (The Open Group) for source license, wait that Roland Mainz releases his version or find a suitable substitute. And then forking the hell outta here. Jenny -- Jennifer Pioch, Uni Frankfurt ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Chad Welsh wrote: So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? What would your fork do differently than the main project, besides have almost no developers working on it, since all the Oracle-paid developers would still be working on the original OpenSolaris?Would you even have enough developers to keep up with the overhead of merging in all the changes Oracle developers are pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day? If what you really want is a new distro that's not in Oracle's control, what would differentiate your distro from the existing ones, and why would it make sense to start another instead of joining one of the existing groups to work on theirs? -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On 14/04/2010 15:56, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Chad Welsh wrote: So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? What would your fork do differently than the main project, besides have almost no developers working on it, since all the Oracle-paid developers would still be working on the original OpenSolaris?Would you even have enough developers to keep up with the overhead of merging in all the changes Oracle developers are pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day? If what you really want is a new distro that's not in Oracle's control, what would differentiate your distro from the existing ones, and why would it make sense to start another instead of joining one of the existing groups to work on theirs? Agree 100%. All that fork thing is silly... I guess some people are getting nervous a little bit (unnecessarily imho), then we probably have Sun/Oracle competition adding some FUD as well... but at the end of a day it's Oracle fault for not communicating clearly to OS communities about its plans and/or for not allowing Sun developers to publicly speak their minds. I think there is a culture problem to some degree - Oracle definitely announced that 2010.03 is coming in the first half of 2010 during the Welcome session last month in London. What's lacking though is a clear message along the same lines from development here on mailing lists - not everyone attended these welcome sessions after all. -- Robert Milkowski http://milek.blogspot.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On 04/14/10 10:56 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Chad Welsh wrote: So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? What would your fork do differently than the main project, besides have almost no developers working on it, since all the Oracle-paid developers would still be working on the original OpenSolaris? It would get a release out. I'm still using b134 since 03/09/2010. Would you even have enough developers to keep up with the overhead of merging in all the changes Oracle developers are pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day? If their pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day, why hasn't anything been released. Why cannot I upgrade to b135, b136 or b137? Everyone is getting edgy. If Oracle won't publish a binary, Dennis is testing what it would take to do this effort himself. If what you really want is a new distro that's not in Oracle's control, what would differentiate your distro from the existing ones, and why would it make sense to start another instead of joining one of the existing groups to work on theirs? I don't think he wants to start a new distro, he's looking to publish b137. Paul ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Well maybe this distro will communicate with its people besides the ones inside the company about the status of its latest release since you cut the balls off the release branch that should have continued. close to a month of us wondering what the hell happened to 2010.03 and still nothing to the effect of Oh sorry guys said part that was giving you the boot errors or the data corruption is making us go back to correct these errors before we can release this code and having everyone guess to what the actual situation is. So do you really wonder why people are clogging up your board with rumors or what you all like to call FUD when your actions are what is really causing all the FEAR UNCERTAINTY AND DECEPTION with and emphasis on UNCERTAINTY. The more communication with the people and the less fear you get just ask our govt in the US which still has problems with that concept and it shows with the state of the PEOPLE. They are what drives the train not the conductor he just controls the path. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Paul Gress wrote: If their pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day, why hasn't anything been released. Why cannot I upgrade to b135, b136 or b137? Every previous time we've had a release in progress, updates to /dev stopped while the release was underway - when 2009.06 was being finalized, builds 112 though 115 got skipped in /dev. Unfortunately, I don't know when new builds will be able to be published in the pkg repo again, but the sources continue to be made available if someone else wanted to build them. Just taking the existing sources and releasing builds to a community-run pkg repo is not a fork though. -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Chad Welsh wrote: Well maybe this distro will communicate with its people besides the ones inside the company about the status of its latest release since you cut the balls off the release branch that should have continued. I assure you I have not touched anyones balls. Attacking the few of us still willing to communicate in public just further deteriorates the communication you're going to get - believe me, it's damn frustrating for us as well, and hard as we learn the difference between Sun Oracle policies on what information we're allowed to share before management makes official announcements, but we're going to try to not get ourselves fired for violating those. -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Alan Coopersmith alan.coopersm...@oracle.com wrote: Chad Welsh wrote: Well maybe this distro will communicate with its people besides the ones inside the company about the status of its latest release since you cut the balls off the release branch that should have continued. I assure you I have not touched anyones balls. Attacking the few of us still willing to communicate in public just further deteriorates the communication you're going to get - believe me, it's damn frustrating for us as well, and hard as we learn the difference between Sun Oracle policies on what information we're allowed to share before management makes official announcements, but we're going to try to not get ourselves fired for violating those. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System 100% +1! %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Paul Gress pgr...@optonline.net wrote: On 04/14/10 10:56 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Chad Welsh wrote: So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? What would your fork do differently than the main project, besides have almost no developers working on it, since all the Oracle-paid developers would still be working on the original OpenSolaris? It would get a release out. I'm still using b134 since 03/09/2010. Would you even have enough developers to keep up with the overhead of merging in all the changes Oracle developers are pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day? If their pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day, why hasn't anything been released. Why cannot I upgrade to b135, b136 or b137? Everyone is getting edgy. If Oracle won't publish a binary, Dennis is testing what it would take to do this effort himself. If what you really want is a new distro that's not in Oracle's control, what would differentiate your distro from the existing ones, and why would it make sense to start another instead of joining one of the existing groups to work on theirs? I don't think he wants to start a new distro, he's looking to publish b137. Paul Mmh, are you so sure? Maybe the label would be upgraded to reflect a ^new^ version. But I doubt many would be able to even remotely keep up with what Sun/Oracle is contributing in real diffs. %martin bochnig ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On 04/14/10 12:12 PM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Paul Gress wrote: If their pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day, why hasn't anything been released. Why cannot I upgrade to b135, b136 or b137? Every previous time we've had a release in progress, updates to /dev stopped while the release was underway - when 2009.06 was being finalized, builds 112 though 115 got skipped in /dev. But the difference was the community was informed. It appears that everything was frozen. I must say that I'm getting nervous. I've been waiting since around the later b120's for b135, as this marked the first release with NWAM phase 1. Now I see not even a whisper on the release front. My analogy on this situation is like the drug pusher giving drugs to kids for free knowing when he stops giving it for free the kids will be addicted and will agree to pay for it. It appears we are now in the stop giving it stage and the community is now going through withdrawal symptoms. They need their Opensolaris. Unfortunately, I don't know when new builds will be able to be published in the pkg repo again, but the sources continue to be made available if someone else wanted to build them. Just taking the existing sources and releasing builds to a community-run pkg repo is not a fork though. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Paul Gress pgr...@optonline.net wrote: On 04/14/10 12:12 PM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Paul Gress wrote: If their pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day, why hasn't anything been released. Why cannot I upgrade to b135, b136 or b137? Every previous time we've had a release in progress, updates to /dev stopped while the release was underway - when 2009.06 was being finalized, builds 112 though 115 got skipped in /dev. But the difference was the community was informed. It appears that everything was frozen. I must say that I'm getting nervous. I've been waiting since around the later b120's for b135, as this marked the first release with NWAM phase 1. Now I see not even a whisper on the release front. How can it appear to be ^frozen^? Then maybe you are not subscribed to the right lists. I doubt anybody would continue to pay the developers, unless they do very well plan to release *something*. Maybe the delay has to do with polishing justice related aspects, licenses and so on. The price list, the type, duration and price tag of future support contracts, all that stuff. Everything is mere speculation. Except for the FACT, that the engineers are still doing their jobs, that is: PUBLICLY. How much more do you want? The distro? Everything that it takes to create one is openly available. USE IT. Or let´s just wait a bit. During my life experience I learned one thing for sure: Distrust and impatience DESTROY EVERYTHING. My analogy on this situation is like the drug pusher giving drugs to kids for free knowing when he stops giving it for free the kids will be addicted and will agree to pay for it. It appears we are now in the stop giving it stage and the community is now going through withdrawal symptoms. They need their Opensolaris. Sounds like you are experienced ;-) %martin bochnig Unfortunately, I don't know when new builds will be able to be published in the pkg repo again, but the sources continue to be made available if someone else wanted to build them. Just taking the existing sources and releasing builds to a community-run pkg repo is not a fork though. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On 04/14/10 01:11 PM, Martin Bochnig wrote: How can it appear to be ^frozen^? Then maybe you are not subscribed to the right lists. Appears and actual are two different things. What I mean by appears is nothing has been published as in some form of a binary release for me to upgrade my b134 for a little over a month. Now I know Alan stated this happened previously, which I remember, but the community was informed, and the timing also wasn't during a transistion from Sun to Oracle. I doubt anybody would continue to pay the developers, unless they do very well plan to release *something*. I'm sure they plan to release something, they are continuing to develop. I'm afraid it may be in the form of a paid subscription service. Maybe the delay has to do with polishing justice related aspects, licenses and so on. That has to do with 2010.04, not the dev releases. During my life experience I learned one thing for sure: Distrust and impatience DESTROY EVERYTHING. I agree, I can wait, I just wish somebody would throw a dogbone to appease the community. My analogy on this situation is like the drug pusher giving drugs to kids for free knowing when he stops giving it for free the kids will be addicted and will agree to pay for it. It appears we are now in the stop giving it stage and the community is now going through withdrawal symptoms. They need their Opensolaris. Sounds like you are experienced ;-) Experienced in Opensolaris that is. Paul ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote: During my life experience I learned one thing for sure: Distrust and impatience DESTROY EVERYTHING. Exactly, Oracle should pay attention to that. My analogy on this situation is like the drug pusher giving drugs to kids for free knowing when he stops giving it for free the kids will be addicted and will agree to pay for it. It appears we are now in the stop giving it stage and the community is now going through withdrawal symptoms. They need their Opensolaris. Sounds like you are experienced ;-) Personal attacks rarely will help you make your point so please stop it. -- Giovanni ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Paul Gress pgr...@optonline.net wrote: On 04/14/10 01:11 PM, Martin Bochnig wrote: How can it appear to be ^frozen^? Then maybe you are not subscribed to the right lists. Appears and actual are two different things. What I mean by appears is nothing has been published as in some form of a binary release for me to upgrade my b134 for a little over a month. Now I know Alan stated this happened previously, which I remember, but the community was informed, and the timing also wasn't during a transistion from Sun to Oracle. I doubt anybody would continue to pay the developers, unless they do very well plan to release *something*. I'm sure they plan to release something, they are continuing to develop. I'm afraid it may be in the form of a paid subscription service. And even, if! Would (I said w o u l d) that matter? People pay for bread, electricity, going to the toilet, for their own grave, even for Microsoft - warez. Why not for a real UNIX OS??? And once again, don´t care about the distro. There are a few good alternative distos, always have been. They are not only longer on the market, than www.opensolaris.com, but it is even the other way around: Indiana was mostly derived from BeleniX and SchilliX!!! So what? Build your own distro, or take one of the free alternatives: http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Main/downloads Everything must be open. Everything must be for free. What is the counter-contribution for this??? Is this a user-community like that of Wondows 7? Or are there 2 directions? If Oracle increasingly commercializes their distro, then the alternative distros will finally flurish again! %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On 04/14/10 01:34 PM, Giovanni Tirloni wrote: Sounds like you are experienced ;-) Personal attacks rarely will help you make your point so please stop it. I didn't take is as a personal attack, I saw the smiley face, it was meant as a joke. Paul ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Paul Gress pgr...@optonline.net wrote: On 04/14/10 01:34 PM, Giovanni Tirloni wrote: Sounds like you are experienced ;-) Personal attacks rarely will help you make your point so please stop it. I didn't take is as a personal attack, I saw the smiley face, it was meant as a joke. Paul Hi, Paul understood me. It was just a joke I could not resist. I did understand the point he made. But I found the image he chose too funny, for not joking a bit. Always read between the lines, please. rgds, %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- But the difference was the community was informed. It appears that everything was frozen. I must say that I'm getting nervous. I've been waiting since around the later b120's for b135, as this marked the first release with NWAM phase 1. Now I see not even a whisper on the release front. These are the differences, Alan wrote about: Oracle states things, when they are there. Sun did publish roadmaps years in advance and did a very bad job in fulfilling them... We ALL have to learn AND accept that difference! Matthias ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
They need their Opensolaris. THEIR? Who owns that distribution? And: if it's their's, they should be building it themselfes... Really, it seems, you do know what a community is, and how open source works... Matthias ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
2010/4/14 Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de: They need their Opensolaris. THEIR? Who owns that distribution? And: if it's their's, they should be building it themselfes... Really, it seems, you do know what a community is, and how open source works... Matthias You interchanged To:-field and CC:-field. Not I wrote this quote ... Please try to be more careful with the mail-handling. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
I can't manage that from my Nokia E71, and, yes, I quoted from a different email... Sorry, it's not been directed at you, Martin! Matthias -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org An: matth...@pfuetzner.de Cc: pgr...@optonline.net, opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Gesendet: 14.4.'10, 20:30 2010/4/14 Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de: They need their Opensolaris. THEIR? Who owns that distribution? And: if it's their's, they should be building it themselfes... Really, it seems, you do know what a community is, and how open source works... Matthias You interchanged To:-field and CC:-field. Not I wrote this quote ... Please try to be more careful with the mail-handling. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
2010/4/14 Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de: I can't manage that from my Nokia E71, and, yes, I quoted from a different email... Sorry, it's not been directed at you, Martin! Matthias Ok, no problem. I can imagine it can be hairy, when sending reply-all from a phone ... Thanks for clarifying. %martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org An: matth...@pfuetzner.de Cc: pgr...@optonline.net, opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Gesendet: 14.4.'10, 20:30 2010/4/14 Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de: They need their Opensolaris. THEIR? Who owns that distribution? And: if it's their's, they should be building it themselfes... Really, it seems, you do know what a community is, and how open source works... Matthias You interchanged To:-field and CC:-field. Not I wrote this quote ... Please try to be more careful with the mail-handling. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Alan Coopersmith wrote: I assure you I have not touched anyones balls. Attacking the few f us still willing to communicate in public just further deteriorates the communication you're going to get - believe me, it's damn frustrating for us as well, and hard as we learn the difference between Sun Oracle policies on what information we're allowed to share before management makes official announcements, but we're going to try to not get ourselves fired for violating those. Alan, I agree with everything you say. The problem is, as everyone keeps saying, that the community that isn't attached to the company knows nothing about what's going on. It's a tad frustrating getting nothing from Oracle about the next release. I must say though, hearing that the dev builds have stopped being made public sounds encouraging, it could be that 2010.04 is on it's way! For everyone else, I've found that people in the Indiana board seem to give better answers as to what the show-stoppers are. I would presume this is because they are the people packaging everything up? Ben -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On 14/04/2010 20:55, Ben wrote: Alan, I agree with everything you say. The problem is, as everyone keeps saying, that the community that isn't attached to the company knows nothing about what's going on. It's a tad frustrating getting nothing from Oracle about the next release. Slightly tangential, but it sounds like the Glassfish community found themselves in a similar situation recently. However, Oracle just released a roadmap that covers the future of both their commercial and open source offering: http://blogs.sun.com/theaquarium/entry/replays_for_glassfish_roadmap_now I have no insight into whether Oracle will be doing something similar for Solaris/OpenSolaris. But it does suggest that Oracle's relative silence during this transitional period is neither unique to OpenSolaris, nor any indicator of its future plans for the project. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Interaction Designer Oracle Corporation, Ireland mailto:calum.benson at oracle.com Solaris Desktop Group http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Oracle Corp. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Slightly tangential, but it sounds like the Glassfish community found themselves in a similar situation recently. However, Oracle just released a roadmap that covers the future of both their commercial and open source offering I have no insight into whether Oracle will be doing something similar for Solaris/OpenSolaris. But it does suggest that Oracle's relative silence during this transitional period is neither unique to OpenSolaris, nor any indicator of its future plans for the project. Hearing things like that makes me feel much more confident about the situation. Because I've never used Glassfish, I've not followed news about it, but if they have been left in the dark and have just been given light, it bodes well for OpenSolaris :D -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Calum Benson calum.ben...@oracle.comwrote: On 14/04/2010 20:55, Ben wrote: Alan, I agree with everything you say. The problem is, as everyone keeps saying, that the community that isn't attached to the company knows nothing about what's going on. It's a tad frustrating getting nothing from Oracle about the next release. Slightly tangential, but it sounds like the Glassfish community found themselves in a similar situation recently. However, Oracle just released a roadmap that covers the future of both their commercial and open source offering: http://blogs.sun.com/theaquarium/entry/replays_for_glassfish_roadmap_now I have no insight into whether Oracle will be doing something similar for Solaris/OpenSolaris. But it does suggest that Oracle's relative silence during this transitional period is neither unique to OpenSolaris, nor any indicator of its future plans for the project. They released the roadmap for Luster today: http://blogs.sun.com/manoj/entry/oracle_lustre_strategy I hope OpenSolaris is next. -- Giovanni ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On 04/15/10 04:19 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Chad Welsh wrote: Well maybe this distro will communicate with its people besides the ones inside the company about the status of its latest release since you cut the balls off the release branch that should have continued. I assure you I have not touched anyones balls. Attacking the few of us still willing to communicate in public just further deteriorates the communication you're going to get - believe me, it's damn frustrating for us as well, and hard as we learn the difference between Sun Oracle policies on what information we're allowed to share before management makes official announcements, but we're going to try to not get ourselves fired for violating those. Alan, Thanks for continuing to introduce sanity into all this nonsense. Long my you ( and Calum) keep communicating! -- Ian. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Ian Collins i...@ianshome.com wrote: On 04/15/10 04:19 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Chad Welsh wrote: Well maybe this distro will communicate with its people besides the ones inside the company about the status of its latest release since you cut the balls off the release branch that should have continued. I assure you I have not touched anyones balls. Attacking the few of us still willing to communicate in public just further deteriorates the communication you're going to get - believe me, it's damn frustrating for us as well, and hard as we learn the difference between Sun Oracle policies on what information we're allowed to share before management makes official announcements, but we're going to try to not get ourselves fired for violating those. Alan, Thanks for continuing to introduce sanity into all this nonsense. Long my you ( and Calum) keep communicating! -- Ian. plus 1! %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
