Re: [OT] Surface Studio

[Scott Barnes]

One thing concerns me is that with the WACOM you get used to the texture of
the screen, that is its not "hard glass" its more of a soft matte finish.
I've tried drawing on iPad Pro and Surface Pro's but they don't feel the
same as the WACOMS... so i'll just have to suck it up given the value
proposition on the "surface" (lol) looks appealing...


---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 2:45 PM, William Luu  wrote:

> Gabe of Penny Arcade posted a review based on his perspective as a Cintiq
> user
>
> https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2016/10/26/the-surface-studio
>
> "Tycho asked me to compare it to my Cintiq, and I told him that drawing
> on the Cintiq now felt like drawing on a piece of dirty plexiglass hovering
> over a CRT monitor from 1997. "
>
>
>
> On Friday, 28 October 2016, Scott Barnes  wrote:
>
>> I paid $4k for my CINTIQ Wacom 27" HD so if this can replace it,
>> i'm open to the spend but it has to live up to the promise though.
>>
>> The rest of the announceables were pretty much meh.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Regards,
>> Scott Barnes
>> http://www.riagenic.com
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 7:31 AM, David Connors  wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 at 06:43 Andrew Tobin  wrote:
>>>
 What do we think of the Surface Studio?  I've long said that it'll be
 great when we have that sort of touch interface directly in front of us to
 manipulate...

 My thinking is it'd be more powerful if instead of moving from the
 tilted position to vertical, if you had one or more screens vertically and
 had Kinect or similar to "drag" windows down to be manipulated directly in
 front of you, and then back up when just viewing.

 I can't imagine it'll be that far away.

>>>
>>> It looks excellent but at USD$3-4.5K for a desktop ... not sure it is
>>> going to fly. Maybe it will find a niche but that is a pant load of cash
>>> for something you can't take with you in the age of cheap
>>> laptops/tablets/etc.
>>>
>>> Desktops are dead to me.
>>>
>>> David.
>>> --
>>> David Connors
>>> da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [OT] Surface Studio

[Tom Rutter]

On Friday, 28 October 2016, DotNet Dude  wrote:

>
> On Friday, 28 October 2016, David Connors  > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 at 06:43 Andrew Tobin  wrote:
>>
>>> What do we think of the Surface Studio?  I've long said that it'll be
>>> great when we have that sort of touch interface directly in front of us to
>>> manipulate...
>>>
>>> My thinking is it'd be more powerful if instead of moving from the
>>> tilted position to vertical, if you had one or more screens vertically and
>>> had Kinect or similar to "drag" windows down to be manipulated directly in
>>> front of you, and then back up when just viewing.
>>>
>>> I can't imagine it'll be that far away.
>>>
>>
>> It looks excellent but at USD$3-4.5K for a desktop ... not sure it is
>> going to fly. Maybe it will find a niche but that is a pant load of cash
>> for something you can't take with you in the age of cheap
>> laptops/tablets/etc.
>>
>> Surface book aint cheap and lots of people bought them
>
>
Glad I wasn't one of them, changed my mind last minute. Too pricey for what
you get imo


> Desktops are dead to me.
>>
>> David.
>> --
>> David Connors
>> da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>>
>

Re: [OT] Surface Studio

[William Luu]

Gabe of Penny Arcade posted a review based on his perspective as a Cintiq
user

https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2016/10/26/the-surface-studio

"Tycho asked me to compare it to my Cintiq, and I told him that drawing on
the Cintiq now felt like drawing on a piece of dirty plexiglass hovering
over a CRT monitor from 1997. "



On Friday, 28 October 2016, Scott Barnes  wrote:

> I paid $4k for my CINTIQ Wacom 27" HD so if this can replace it,
> i'm open to the spend but it has to live up to the promise though.
>
> The rest of the announceables were pretty much meh.
>
>
> ---
> Regards,
> Scott Barnes
> http://www.riagenic.com
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 7:31 AM, David Connors  > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 at 06:43 Andrew Tobin > > wrote:
>>
>>> What do we think of the Surface Studio?  I've long said that it'll be
>>> great when we have that sort of touch interface directly in front of us to
>>> manipulate...
>>>
>>> My thinking is it'd be more powerful if instead of moving from the
>>> tilted position to vertical, if you had one or more screens vertically and
>>> had Kinect or similar to "drag" windows down to be manipulated directly in
>>> front of you, and then back up when just viewing.
>>>
>>> I can't imagine it'll be that far away.
>>>
>>
>> It looks excellent but at USD$3-4.5K for a desktop ... not sure it is
>> going to fly. Maybe it will find a niche but that is a pant load of cash
>> for something you can't take with you in the age of cheap
>> laptops/tablets/etc.
>>
>> Desktops are dead to me.
>>
>> David.
>> --
>> David Connors
>> da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>>
>
>

Re: [OT] Surface Studio

[Scott Barnes]

I paid $4k for my CINTIQ Wacom 27" HD so if this can replace it,
i'm open to the spend but it has to live up to the promise though.

The rest of the announceables were pretty much meh.


---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 7:31 AM, David Connors  wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 at 06:43 Andrew Tobin  wrote:
>
>> What do we think of the Surface Studio?  I've long said that it'll be
>> great when we have that sort of touch interface directly in front of us to
>> manipulate...
>>
>> My thinking is it'd be more powerful if instead of moving from the tilted
>> position to vertical, if you had one or more screens vertically and had
>> Kinect or similar to "drag" windows down to be manipulated directly in
>> front of you, and then back up when just viewing.
>>
>> I can't imagine it'll be that far away.
>>
>
> It looks excellent but at USD$3-4.5K for a desktop ... not sure it is
> going to fly. Maybe it will find a niche but that is a pant load of cash
> for something you can't take with you in the age of cheap
> laptops/tablets/etc.
>
> Desktops are dead to me.
>
> David.
> --
> David Connors
> da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>

Re: [OT] Surface Studio

[DotNet Dude]

On Friday, 28 October 2016, David Connors  wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 at 06:43 Andrew Tobin  > wrote:
>
>> What do we think of the Surface Studio?  I've long said that it'll be
>> great when we have that sort of touch interface directly in front of us to
>> manipulate...
>>
>> My thinking is it'd be more powerful if instead of moving from the tilted
>> position to vertical, if you had one or more screens vertically and had
>> Kinect or similar to "drag" windows down to be manipulated directly in
>> front of you, and then back up when just viewing.
>>
>> I can't imagine it'll be that far away.
>>
>
> It looks excellent but at USD$3-4.5K for a desktop ... not sure it is
> going to fly. Maybe it will find a niche but that is a pant load of cash
> for something you can't take with you in the age of cheap
> laptops/tablets/etc.
>
> Surface book aint cheap and lots of people bought them


> Desktops are dead to me.
>
> David.
> --
> David Connors
> da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363
>

Re: [OT] Surface Studio

[David Connors]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 at 06:43 Andrew Tobin  wrote:

> What do we think of the Surface Studio?  I've long said that it'll be
> great when we have that sort of touch interface directly in front of us to
> manipulate...
>
> My thinking is it'd be more powerful if instead of moving from the tilted
> position to vertical, if you had one or more screens vertically and had
> Kinect or similar to "drag" windows down to be manipulated directly in
> front of you, and then back up when just viewing.
>
> I can't imagine it'll be that far away.
>

It looks excellent but at USD$3-4.5K for a desktop ... not sure it is going
to fly. Maybe it will find a niche but that is a pant load of cash for
something you can't take with you in the age of cheap laptops/tablets/etc.

Desktops are dead to me.

David.
-- 
David Connors
da...@connors.com | @davidconnors | LinkedIn | +61 417 189 363

RE: [OT] Surface

[Ken Schaefer]

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Piers Williams
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 10:57 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface


I was really surprised they went for a another clip-in arrangement. I'd always 
assumed that design was an afterthought for the S2, and for the S3 they'd get 
it right up front and put more pins in the bottom to make a drop-in dock.

The keyboard attaches at the bottom, so I don’t see how they could put pins 
there, unless they forced you to remove the keyboard prior to docking.

I wasn’t aware that there was a “right way” of creating a docking station – can 
you point me to this authority?

Traditional laptop docks do have pins on the bottom –I’ll grant you that, 
however they are a different form factor to a tablet. Secondly, just about 
every laptop dock I’ve used has consisted of a recessed area, with one or more 
raised edge(s) around it, so that you’re guided to put the laptop down in the 
right area so that the pins at the bottom line up with the receptors on the 
bottom of your laptop. This sometimes presents a problem if you have things 
attached to your laptop when you dock, as the raised guides tend to block some 
(or all) or your ports. So, there’s pluses and minuses with either design IMHO.

How does the clip-in feel to you? Sturdy? Does it always line up cleanly with 
the charging connector etc...?

There’s a groove along the bottom of the dock that’s the exact width of the 
SP3. Provided you settle the SP3 into the groove, then the pins on the arm plug 
straight into the receptor on the side. Seems prior sturdy to me.

Cheers
Ken

RE: [OT] Surface

[Piers Williams]

I was really surprised they went for a another clip-in arrangement. I'd
always assumed that design was an afterthought for the S2, and for the S3
they'd get it right up front and put more pins in the bottom to make a
drop-in dock.

How does the clip-in feel to you? Sturdy? Does it always line up cleanly
with the charging connector etc...?
On 18 Sep 2014 08:10, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:

  Not sure which docking station you got – I just put the Surface down,
 and push the left and right “arms” in –the groove at the bottom aligns the
 SP3.



 I got the Philips – fully height adjustable (like the Asus), has the USB
 hub, does 60Hz, and has the screen control buttons on the front (Asus has
 them on the rear for some unknown reason). The Philips is also factory
 calibrated.



 However, the SP3 can only drive the monitor at 30Hz, even though the
 monitor’s capable of 60Hz



 Cheers

 Ken



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price
 *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:04 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface



 Yep I got the docking station too.

 Docking it is a bit weird. Slide it to the side (left to right) then push
 the left corner in to hold it in place. Works ok but I feel like I'm going
 to break something if I miss?



 If you want an awesome 4K monitor have a look at a ASUS PB287Q 28-inch 4K
 UHD 3840 x 2160 Monitor. Its 1ms refresh and 60Hz. I wish it was out when I
 got my Samsung. The Samsung is ok but not the specs of the Asus. It's
 amazing. Well on paper it is, not tried one. Kind of have 4 screens atm but
 perhaps one day.



 On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com
 wrote:

  I have one. Get the docking station, and external monitor/keyboard, if
 you’re going to be doing a lot of work at a desk. As far as a device goes,
 it’s great if you need/want tablet functionality.



 If you just want a laptop, then there’s probably other options.



 I also got a 4K monitor, but the SP3 can only drive it at 30Hz, which is a
 negative that’s not for everyone. But does give you a huge amount of real
 estate.

 I also got a mSATA form factor SSD to replace my old 2.5” drive – you can
 get a 1TB Samsung EVO model for about $480. The size is amazingly small –
 probably about the size of two large USB keys.



 Cheers

 Ken



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Bec Carter
 *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* [OT] Surface



 Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?



 Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

RE: [OT] Surface

[Mark Thompson]

It feels pretty sturdy to me. There is a nice indentation at the bottom of the 
dock, and as long as you make sure the Surface is sitting flat in there, I’ve 
never had an issue with the charging/dock connector lining up.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Piers Williams
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 10:27 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface

 

I was really surprised they went for a another clip-in arrangement. I'd always 
assumed that design was an afterthought for the S2, and for the S3 they'd get 
it right up front and put more pins in the bottom to make a drop-in dock.

How does the clip-in feel to you? Sturdy? Does it always line up cleanly with 
the charging connector etc...?

On 18 Sep 2014 08:10, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:

Not sure which docking station you got – I just put the Surface down, and push 
the left and right “arms” in –the groove at the bottom aligns the SP3.

 

I got the Philips – fully height adjustable (like the Asus), has the USB hub, 
does 60Hz, and has the screen control buttons on the front (Asus has them on 
the rear for some unknown reason). The Philips is also factory calibrated.

 

However, the SP3 can only drive the monitor at 30Hz, even though the monitor’s 
capable of 60Hz

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:04 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

 

Yep I got the docking station too. 

Docking it is a bit weird. Slide it to the side (left to right) then push the 
left corner in to hold it in place. Works ok but I feel like I'm going to break 
something if I miss?

 

If you want an awesome 4K monitor have a look at a ASUS PB287Q 28-inch 4K UHD 
3840 x 2160 Monitor. Its 1ms refresh and 60Hz. I wish it was out when I got my 
Samsung. The Samsung is ok but not the specs of the Asus. It's amazing. Well on 
paper it is, not tried one. Kind of have 4 screens atm but perhaps one day. 

 

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:

I have one. Get the docking station, and external monitor/keyboard, if you’re 
going to be doing a lot of work at a desk. As far as a device goes, it’s great 
if you need/want tablet functionality.

 

If you just want a laptop, then there’s probably other options.

 

I also got a 4K monitor, but the SP3 can only drive it at 30Hz, which is a 
negative that’s not for everyone. But does give you a huge amount of real 
estate.

I also got a mSATA form factor SSD to replace my old 2.5” drive – you can get a 
1TB Samsung EVO model for about $480. The size is amazingly small – probably 
about the size of two large USB keys.

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bec Carter
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface

 

Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

 

Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

 

RE: [OT] Surface

[Piers Williams]

Yeah I have that spec Surface 2 pro for the same reasons (could have
shelled out for an i7 laptop, didn't feel the need)

Must say playing with the 3 (colleague has one) I'm impressed with how much
better the pen input feels over the 2 (which itself is pretty good).
On 18 Sep 2014 08:53, Mark Thompson matho...@internode.on.net wrote:

 Probably should have added, mine is the i5 with 8Gb RAM and 256Gb SSD. The
 i7 seemed too expensive to justify, and probably unnecessary for most
 situations.



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Thompson
 *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:20 AM
 *To:* 'ozDotNet'
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface



 I pre-ordered mine through the Microsoft Store with docking station, and
 it works great as a dev machine. Bought 2x mini-displayPort to HDMI
 adapters off eBay for $5 each, and am running two external Full-HD displays
 off it, plus the built-in screen on the Surface. My only complaint with
 this setup is that when running the native text enlargement size (150% I
 think), some apps look ‘blurry’ on the external display – something to do
 with Windows trying to scale the content down to fit I think. Takes a bit
 of getting used to, but dropping the scaling to 100% would make text
 unreadable on the Surface screen.



 Otherwise though, it’s great on the bus for doing light work or watching
 the odd PluralSight course, and I bought an inexpensive 13” laptop bag
 which is big enough to carry the Surface, related cords and a paper
 notebook – everything I need when going to clients, and so much lighter
 than an equivalent laptop setup – one of my justifications for getting the
 Surface in the first place.



 One thing to watch out for if running Visual Studio on it though, is that
 if you install the Windows Phone components, Hyper-V gets enabled and as I
 discovered after much head-scratching, this disables the ‘instant-on’
 feature of the Surface, and reverts it to a ‘resume from hibernate’
 scenario, which means it takes a good 10-15 seconds to get up and running
 when you hit the power button. Google/Bing for a solution, so you can set
 up a dual-boot configuration that enables or disables Hyper-V as required,
 and leave it in the disabled mode unless you really need it and everything
 runs fine!



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Bec Carter
 *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:11 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* [OT] Surface



 Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?



 Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

Re: [OT] Surface

[Stephen Price]

Hey Ken,

Your post was bugging me. I kept thinking, what dock did he get and why is
it different to mine? So I turned on my light so I could see better and
looked closely at the bottom left corner of my dock. I suddenly realised
that when I had my SP3 in the dock, the lip wasn't holding it right. So I
put some pressure on the left and right arms and they slid out just like
you described. Embarrassed to say, I've been using it wrong. Also explains
why occasionally it stops charging, because it wasn't sat in there right.
Thats what you get for blindly buying something, not looking at review
videos, and using your equipement in a dark office with the light off. lol

Teaches me I should have read the manual when I got it but my thought was
its a dock. not that complicated. Actually, I'm not even sure there was a
manual. RTFM
Also, the other issue with the quick power up being disabled with
Hypervisor on has made it so much nicer to use. Press the button and its
on. It was a pain before. Now have two boot modes.

So this thread has has helped me so much hehe. Thanks guys!!

Making a Difference

Perth, Western Australia
+61 (0) 428 028 599
step...@lythixdesigns.com
@lythixdesigns | @lyynx
www.lythixdesigns.com
www.linkedin.com/in/lyynx

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:

  Not sure which docking station you got – I just put the Surface down,
 and push the left and right “arms” in –the groove at the bottom aligns the
 SP3.



 I got the Philips – fully height adjustable (like the Asus), has the USB
 hub, does 60Hz, and has the screen control buttons on the front (Asus has
 them on the rear for some unknown reason). The Philips is also factory
 calibrated.



 However, the SP3 can only drive the monitor at 30Hz, even though the
 monitor’s capable of 60Hz



 Cheers

 Ken



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price
 *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:04 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface



 Yep I got the docking station too.

 Docking it is a bit weird. Slide it to the side (left to right) then push
 the left corner in to hold it in place. Works ok but I feel like I'm going
 to break something if I miss?



 If you want an awesome 4K monitor have a look at a ASUS PB287Q 28-inch 4K
 UHD 3840 x 2160 Monitor. Its 1ms refresh and 60Hz. I wish it was out when I
 got my Samsung. The Samsung is ok but not the specs of the Asus. It's
 amazing. Well on paper it is, not tried one. Kind of have 4 screens atm but
 perhaps one day.



 On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com
 wrote:

  I have one. Get the docking station, and external monitor/keyboard, if
 you’re going to be doing a lot of work at a desk. As far as a device goes,
 it’s great if you need/want tablet functionality.



 If you just want a laptop, then there’s probably other options.



 I also got a 4K monitor, but the SP3 can only drive it at 30Hz, which is a
 negative that’s not for everyone. But does give you a huge amount of real
 estate.

 I also got a mSATA form factor SSD to replace my old 2.5” drive – you can
 get a 1TB Samsung EVO model for about $480. The size is amazingly small –
 probably about the size of two large USB keys.



 Cheers

 Ken



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Bec Carter
 *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* [OT] Surface



 Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?



 Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

RE: [OT] Surface

[Ken Schaefer]

FWIW, this is the mSATA enclosure I got: 
http://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-AT-ENCKIT-Atlas-mSATA-Enclosure/dp/B00GQV1VFA/
(ordered from RamCity in Brissie but the above link has pictures). Coupled with 
Samsung 840 EVO mSata SSD.

I used to think a 2.5” enclosure was relatively small. Now, my 2.5” enclosures 
look positively old-school.



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 10:52 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

Hey Ken,

Your post was bugging me. I kept thinking, what dock did he get and why is it 
different to mine? So I turned on my light so I could see better and looked 
closely at the bottom left corner of my dock. I suddenly realised that when I 
had my SP3 in the dock, the lip wasn't holding it right. So I put some pressure 
on the left and right arms and they slid out just like you described. 
Embarrassed to say, I've been using it wrong. Also explains why occasionally it 
stops charging, because it wasn't sat in there right. Thats what you get for 
blindly buying something, not looking at review videos, and using your 
equipement in a dark office with the light off. lol

Teaches me I should have read the manual when I got it but my thought was its a 
dock. not that complicated. Actually, I'm not even sure there was a manual. RTFM
Also, the other issue with the quick power up being disabled with Hypervisor on 
has made it so much nicer to use. Press the button and its on. It was a pain 
before. Now have two boot modes.

So this thread has has helped me so much hehe. Thanks guys!!

Making a Difference

Perth, Western Australia
+61 (0) 428 028 599
step...@lythixdesigns.commailto:step...@lythixdesigns.com
@lythixdesigns | @lyynx
www.lythixdesigns.comhttp://www.lythixdesigns.com
www.linkedin.com/in/lyynxhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/lyynx

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Ken Schaefer 
k...@adopenstatic.commailto:k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:
Not sure which docking station you got – I just put the Surface down, and push 
the left and right “arms” in –the groove at the bottom aligns the SP3.

I got the Philips – fully height adjustable (like the Asus), has the USB hub, 
does 60Hz, and has the screen control buttons on the front (Asus has them on 
the rear for some unknown reason). The Philips is also factory calibrated.

However, the SP3 can only drive the monitor at 30Hz, even though the monitor’s 
capable of 60Hz

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:04 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

Yep I got the docking station too.
Docking it is a bit weird. Slide it to the side (left to right) then push the 
left corner in to hold it in place. Works ok but I feel like I'm going to break 
something if I miss?

If you want an awesome 4K monitor have a look at a ASUS PB287Q 28-inch 4K UHD 
3840 x 2160 Monitor. Its 1ms refresh and 60Hz. I wish it was out when I got my 
Samsung. The Samsung is ok but not the specs of the Asus. It's amazing. Well on 
paper it is, not tried one. Kind of have 4 screens atm but perhaps one day.

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Ken Schaefer 
k...@adopenstatic.commailto:k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:
I have one. Get the docking station, and external monitor/keyboard, if you’re 
going to be doing a lot of work at a desk. As far as a device goes, it’s great 
if you need/want tablet functionality.

If you just want a laptop, then there’s probably other options.

I also got a 4K monitor, but the SP3 can only drive it at 30Hz, which is a 
negative that’s not for everyone. But does give you a huge amount of real 
estate.
I also got a mSATA form factor SSD to replace my old 2.5” drive – you can get a 
1TB Samsung EVO model for about $480. The size is amazingly small – probably 
about the size of two large USB keys.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bec Carter
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface

Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

Re: [OT] Surface

[Stephen Price]

I did a search yesterday for mSata enclosures. Was briefly excited and then 
realised that the only time I use my current USB3 2.5” drive is when I need to 
do a backup of something using Acronis. (love Acronis, especially being able to 
boot it from a USB and back something up with no OS running). All my stuff is 
on dropbox which I can get at from anywhere. I feel USB devices are now the 
occasional tool rather than the everyday tool of a few years ago. 

Still, you can't hold the cloud in your hand. *torn*






Sent from Surface





From: Ken Schaefer
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎19‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎01‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet






FWIW, this is the mSATA enclosure I got: 
http://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-AT-ENCKIT-Atlas-mSATA-Enclosure/dp/B00GQV1VFA/

(ordered from RamCity in Brissie but the above link has pictures). Coupled with 
Samsung 840 EVO mSata SSD.

 

I used to think a 2.5” enclosure was relatively small. Now, my 2.5” enclosures 
look positively old-school.

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 10:52 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

 


Hey Ken,


 


Your post was bugging me. I kept thinking, what dock did he get and why is it 
different to mine? So I turned on my light so I could see better and looked 
closely at the bottom left corner of my dock. I suddenly realised that when I 
had my SP3 in the dock, the lip wasn't holding it right. So I put some pressure 
on the left and right arms and they slid out just like you described. 
Embarrassed to say, I've been using it wrong. Also explains why occasionally it 
stops charging, because it wasn't sat in there right. Thats what you get for 
blindly buying something, not looking at review videos, and using your 
equipement in a dark office with the light off. lol


 


Teaches me I should have read the manual when I got it but my thought was its a 
dock. not that complicated. Actually, I'm not even sure there was a manual. RTFM


Also, the other issue with the quick power up being disabled with Hypervisor on 
has made it so much nicer to use. Press the button and its on. It was a pain 
before. Now have two boot modes. 


 


So this thread has has helped me so much hehe. Thanks guys!! 








Making a Difference


 


Perth, Western Australia


+61 (0) 428 028 599


step...@lythixdesigns.com 


@lythixdesigns | @lyynx


www.lythixdesigns.com


www.linkedin.com/in/lyynx

 


On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:




Not sure which docking station you got – I just put the Surface down, and push 
the left and right “arms” in –the groove at the bottom aligns the SP3.

 

I got the Philips – fully height adjustable (like the Asus), has the USB hub, 
does 60Hz, and has the screen control buttons on the front (Asus has them on 
the rear for some unknown reason). The Philips is also factory calibrated.

 

However, the SP3 can only drive the monitor at 30Hz, even though the monitor’s 
capable of 60Hz

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:04 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface



 


Yep I got the docking station too. 


Docking it is a bit weird. Slide it to the side (left to right) then push the 
left corner in to hold it in place. Works ok but I feel like I'm going to break 
something if I miss?


 


If you want an awesome 4K monitor have a look at a ASUS PB287Q 28-inch 4K UHD 
3840 x 2160 Monitor. Its 1ms refresh and 60Hz. I wish it was out when I got my 
Samsung. The Samsung is ok but not the specs of the Asus. It's amazing. Well on 
paper it is, not tried one. Kind of have 4 screens atm but perhaps one day. 


 


On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:




I have one. Get the docking station, and external monitor/keyboard, if you’re 
going to be doing a lot of work at a desk. As far as a device goes, it’s great 
if you need/want tablet functionality.

 

If you just want a laptop, then there’s probably other options.

 

I also got a 4K monitor, but the SP3 can only drive it at 30Hz, which is a 
negative that’s not for everyone. But does give you a huge amount of real 
estate.

I also got a mSATA form factor SSD to replace my old 2.5” drive – you can get a 
1TB Samsung EVO model for about $480. The size is amazingly small – probably 
about the size of two large USB keys.

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bec Carter
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface

 


Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?


 


Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

RE: [OT] Surface

[Ken Schaefer]

I have a few hundred GB of VMs, plus another few hundred GB of setup files. Not 
really suitable to access that all from Dropbox et al ☺

So, this is geared towards people who need to carry stuff around with them

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 11:09 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

I did a search yesterday for mSata enclosures. Was briefly excited and then 
realised that the only time I use my current USB3 2.5” drive is when I need to 
do a backup of something using Acronis. (love Acronis, especially being able to 
boot it from a USB and back something up with no OS running). All my stuff is 
on dropbox which I can get at from anywhere. I feel USB devices are now the 
occasional tool rather than the everyday tool of a few years ago.
Still, you can't hold the cloud in your hand. *torn*

Sent from Surface

From: Ken Schaefermailto:k...@adopenstatic.com
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎19‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎01‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNetmailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com

FWIW, this is the mSATA enclosure I got: 
http://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-AT-ENCKIT-Atlas-mSATA-Enclosure/dp/B00GQV1VFA/
(ordered from RamCity in Brissie but the above link has pictures). Coupled with 
Samsung 840 EVO mSata SSD.

I used to think a 2.5” enclosure was relatively small. Now, my 2.5” enclosures 
look positively old-school.

Re: [OT] Surface

[Stephen Price]

Yep, I can see how that'd be useful. 


Myself, I've avoided vm's as much as I have been able to. Never liked feeling 
like I was missing out of the performance of running on the metal. Since Azure 
vm's though I've created many throw away vm's tho. Spin one up do stuff on it, 
then delete it. I usually delete them because two months later I have forgotten 
what the hell it was created for. Get worried there might be something 
important on it. lol


They need a Description box on a VM in Azure so you can put some info on what 
it's for. Especially when your naming is not descriptive enough. Might see if I 
can feed that back somewhere…






Sent from Surface





From: Ken Schaefer
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎19‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎18‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet






I have a few hundred GB of VMs, plus another few hundred GB of setup files. Not 
really suitable to access that all from Dropbox et al J 

 

So, this is geared towards people who need to carry stuff around with them

 



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, 19 September 2014 11:09 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

 



I did a search yesterday for mSata enclosures. Was briefly excited and then 
realised that the only time I use my current USB3 2.5” drive is when I need to 
do a backup of something using Acronis. (love Acronis, especially being able to 
boot it from a USB and back something up with no OS running). All my stuff is 
on dropbox which I can get at from anywhere. I feel USB devices are now the 
occasional tool rather than the everyday tool of a few years ago. 


Still, you can't hold the cloud in your hand. *torn*



 


Sent from Surface


 



From: Ken Schaefer
Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎19‎ ‎September‎ ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎01‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet


 



FWIW, this is the mSATA enclosure I got: 
http://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-AT-ENCKIT-Atlas-mSATA-Enclosure/dp/B00GQV1VFA/

(ordered from RamCity in Brissie but the above link has pictures). Coupled with 
Samsung 840 EVO mSata SSD.

 

I used to think a 2.5” enclosure was relatively small. Now, my 2.5” enclosures 
look positively old-school.

Re: [OT] Surface

[Neil Roodyn]

I have had one since release USA and using it for dev just fine.
Frame rate for DX / C++ is not great but anything managed is more than fine.
I cannot use the Surface keyboard, but have it plugged in to a ergonomic KB
and second large DELL monitor.
It feels just like 2003 again, a slate with pen input. :-)

Dr. Neil Roodyn | nsquared
Director | Microsoft Regional Director | MVP
(m) +1 425 445 6409
(w) +61 2 9262 3386
(a)  Suite 303, 75 King Street, Sydney NSW 2000
Follow nsquared on Facebook and Twitter @nsquaredmagic
We now have multi-user education applications for Windows 8
https://nsquaredsolutions.com/education/Win8/default.aspx
The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this
email in any way.nsquared does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or
attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may
not reflect the views or opinions of nsquared

From:  Bec Carter bec.usern...@gmail.com
Reply-To:  ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Date:  Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 am
To:  ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject:  [OT] Surface

Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

RE: [OT] Surface

[Ken Schaefer]

I have one. Get the docking station, and external monitor/keyboard, if you’re 
going to be doing a lot of work at a desk. As far as a device goes, it’s great 
if you need/want tablet functionality.

If you just want a laptop, then there’s probably other options.

I also got a 4K monitor, but the SP3 can only drive it at 30Hz, which is a 
negative that’s not for everyone. But does give you a huge amount of real 
estate.
I also got a mSATA form factor SSD to replace my old 2.5” drive – you can get a 
1TB Samsung EVO model for about $480. The size is amazingly small – probably 
about the size of two large USB keys.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bec Carter
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface

Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

Re: [OT] Surface

[Stephen Price]

I think we've all been here so long that we no longer have those noob
problems we all used to have?

I got me a Surface Pro 3 and love it. I'm using it as one of my coding
machines. I RDP to it from my desktop (and use my 4 screens on it). Seems
to handle that pretty well. When I'm in the office with it (one day a week
at Atomic Sky) I use it with no monitor.
I think my favourite place to used it is in Coffee shop or pub (was at
Brass Money the other day while waiting for user group time) and its so
light and nice to use.
I don't use it as a tablet very often and I think that's because it is
larger and heavier than my Nexus 10 and Asus Note 8 (both by my bed).
I do sit on the couch sometimes with it tho. Battery life is pretty good.
If I tell power to use the power saver mode it was saying it had 7 and a
half hours left (and it was at 80%). In balanced it's more like 5 hrs.
Still use the power cable when in office tho.

More than ok for dev work. My only thing I'd change to make it better would
be more ram. 8 is enough but I wouldn't say its plenty.

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Bec Carter bec.usern...@gmail.com wrote:

 Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

 Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

Re: [OT] Surface

[Stephen Price]

Yep I got the docking station too.
Docking it is a bit weird. Slide it to the side (left to right) then push
the left corner in to hold it in place. Works ok but I feel like I'm going
to break something if I miss?

If you want an awesome 4K monitor have a look at a ASUS PB287Q 28-inch 4K
UHD 3840 x 2160 Monitor. Its 1ms refresh and 60Hz. I wish it was out when I
got my Samsung. The Samsung is ok but not the specs of the Asus. It's
amazing. Well on paper it is, not tried one. Kind of have 4 screens atm but
perhaps one day.

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:

  I have one. Get the docking station, and external monitor/keyboard, if
 you’re going to be doing a lot of work at a desk. As far as a device goes,
 it’s great if you need/want tablet functionality.



 If you just want a laptop, then there’s probably other options.



 I also got a 4K monitor, but the SP3 can only drive it at 30Hz, which is a
 negative that’s not for everyone. But does give you a huge amount of real
 estate.

 I also got a mSATA form factor SSD to replace my old 2.5” drive – you can
 get a 1TB Samsung EVO model for about $480. The size is amazingly small –
 probably about the size of two large USB keys.



 Cheers

 Ken



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Bec Carter
 *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* [OT] Surface



 Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?



 Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

Re: [OT] Surface

[Joseph Cooney]

Another possibility is that people are using other channels to have their
questions answered. I've heard of this site called stack overflow...

Joseph
On Sep 18, 2014 10:41 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote:

 On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote:

 Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?


 Indeed I was thinking that in recent weeks. Either .NET is obsolete and
 no one wants to talk about it, or after a decade in the group everyone is
 now a ninja guru and have no questions.


 I just checked the member could - sitting at 322 active members (i.e.
 people mailman hasn't removed due to bounce detection).

 David.

RE: [OT] Surface

[anthonyatsmallbiz]

So  Surface 3 can handle VS with no issues..what are the specs?

 

 

Anthony Salerno | Founder | SmallBiz Australia
Innovation | Web | Software | M2M | Developers | Support

Suite 13, 2 Enterprise Drive Bundoora 3083
+613 8400 4191 | 2Anthony (at) smallbiz.com.au  | Po Box 135, Lower Plenty
3093 ABN : 16 079 706 737

www.smallbiz.com.au http://www.smallbiz.com.au/  |
www.linkedin.com/in/innovativetechnology

 

 

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Neil Roodyn
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:54 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface

 

I have had one since release USA and using it for dev just fine.

Frame rate for DX / C++ is not great but anything managed is more than fine.

I cannot use the Surface keyboard, but have it plugged in to a ergonomic KB
and second large DELL monitor.

It feels just like 2003 again, a slate with pen input. :-)

 

Dr. Neil Roodyn | nsquared

Director | Microsoft Regional Director | MVP 

(m) +1 425 445 6409

(w) +61 2 9262 3386

(a)  Suite 303, 75 King Street, Sydney NSW 2000 
Follow nsquared on Facebook and Twitter @nsquaredmagic

We now have multi-user education applications for Windows 8
https://nsquaredsolutions.com/education/Win8/default.aspx
https://nsquaredsolutions.com/education/Win8/default.aspx

The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this
email in any way.nsquared does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or
attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may
not reflect the views or opinions of nsquared

 

From: Bec Carter bec.usern...@gmail.com
Reply-To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Date: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 am
To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: [OT] Surface

 

Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

 

Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

RE: [OT] Surface

[Mark Thompson]

I pre-ordered mine through the Microsoft Store with docking station, and it 
works great as a dev machine. Bought 2x mini-displayPort to HDMI adapters off 
eBay for $5 each, and am running two external Full-HD displays off it, plus the 
built-in screen on the Surface. My only complaint with this setup is that when 
running the native text enlargement size (150% I think), some apps look 
‘blurry’ on the external display – something to do with Windows trying to scale 
the content down to fit I think. Takes a bit of getting used to, but dropping 
the scaling to 100% would make text unreadable on the Surface screen.

 

Otherwise though, it’s great on the bus for doing light work or watching the 
odd PluralSight course, and I bought an inexpensive 13” laptop bag which is big 
enough to carry the Surface, related cords and a paper notebook – everything I 
need when going to clients, and so much lighter than an equivalent laptop setup 
– one of my justifications for getting the Surface in the first place.

 

One thing to watch out for if running Visual Studio on it though, is that if 
you install the Windows Phone components, Hyper-V gets enabled and as I 
discovered after much head-scratching, this disables the ‘instant-on’ feature 
of the Surface, and reverts it to a ‘resume from hibernate’ scenario, which 
means it takes a good 10-15 seconds to get up and running when you hit the 
power button. Google/Bing for a solution, so you can set up a dual-boot 
configuration that enables or disables Hyper-V as required, and leave it in the 
disabled mode unless you really need it and everything runs fine!

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bec Carter
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:11 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface

 

Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

 

Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

RE: [OT] Surface

[Mark Thompson]

Probably should have added, mine is the i5 with 8Gb RAM and 256Gb SSD. The i7 
seemed too expensive to justify, and probably unnecessary for most situations.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Mark Thompson
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:20 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface

 

I pre-ordered mine through the Microsoft Store with docking station, and it 
works great as a dev machine. Bought 2x mini-displayPort to HDMI adapters off 
eBay for $5 each, and am running two external Full-HD displays off it, plus the 
built-in screen on the Surface. My only complaint with this setup is that when 
running the native text enlargement size (150% I think), some apps look 
‘blurry’ on the external display – something to do with Windows trying to scale 
the content down to fit I think. Takes a bit of getting used to, but dropping 
the scaling to 100% would make text unreadable on the Surface screen.

 

Otherwise though, it’s great on the bus for doing light work or watching the 
odd PluralSight course, and I bought an inexpensive 13” laptop bag which is big 
enough to carry the Surface, related cords and a paper notebook – everything I 
need when going to clients, and so much lighter than an equivalent laptop setup 
– one of my justifications for getting the Surface in the first place.

 

One thing to watch out for if running Visual Studio on it though, is that if 
you install the Windows Phone components, Hyper-V gets enabled and as I 
discovered after much head-scratching, this disables the ‘instant-on’ feature 
of the Surface, and reverts it to a ‘resume from hibernate’ scenario, which 
means it takes a good 10-15 seconds to get up and running when you hit the 
power button. Google/Bing for a solution, so you can set up a dual-boot 
configuration that enables or disables Hyper-V as required, and leave it in the 
disabled mode unless you really need it and everything runs fine!

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bec Carter
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:11 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface

 

Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

 

Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

Re: [OT] Surface

[Stephen Price]

I stopped justifying gadget purchases years ago. Gave it up.

Making a Difference

Perth, Western Australia
+61 (0) 428 028 599
step...@lythixdesigns.com
@lythixdesigns | @lyynx
www.lythixdesigns.com
www.linkedin.com/in/lyynx

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Mark Thompson matho...@internode.on.net
wrote:

 Probably should have added, mine is the i5 with 8Gb RAM and 256Gb SSD. The
 i7 seemed too expensive to justify, and probably unnecessary for most
 situations.



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Thompson
 *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:20 AM
 *To:* 'ozDotNet'
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface



 I pre-ordered mine through the Microsoft Store with docking station, and
 it works great as a dev machine. Bought 2x mini-displayPort to HDMI
 adapters off eBay for $5 each, and am running two external Full-HD displays
 off it, plus the built-in screen on the Surface. My only complaint with
 this setup is that when running the native text enlargement size (150% I
 think), some apps look ‘blurry’ on the external display – something to do
 with Windows trying to scale the content down to fit I think. Takes a bit
 of getting used to, but dropping the scaling to 100% would make text
 unreadable on the Surface screen.



 Otherwise though, it’s great on the bus for doing light work or watching
 the odd PluralSight course, and I bought an inexpensive 13” laptop bag
 which is big enough to carry the Surface, related cords and a paper
 notebook – everything I need when going to clients, and so much lighter
 than an equivalent laptop setup – one of my justifications for getting the
 Surface in the first place.



 One thing to watch out for if running Visual Studio on it though, is that
 if you install the Windows Phone components, Hyper-V gets enabled and as I
 discovered after much head-scratching, this disables the ‘instant-on’
 feature of the Surface, and reverts it to a ‘resume from hibernate’
 scenario, which means it takes a good 10-15 seconds to get up and running
 when you hit the power button. Google/Bing for a solution, so you can set
 up a dual-boot configuration that enables or disables Hyper-V as required,
 and leave it in the disabled mode unless you really need it and everything
 runs fine!



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Bec Carter
 *Sent:* Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:11 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* [OT] Surface



 Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?



 Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

RE: [OT] Surface

[Jiri Kosar]

Stack overflow is very good. Lots of answers from different areas (not 
necessarily dotnet). I do use it myself, just yesterday I have found there an 
answer after 3 hours of not too successful troubleshooting .. ☺

Jiri

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 11:11 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface

Never heard of it, I should check it out…

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:45 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface


Another possibility is that people are using other channels to have their 
questions answered. I've heard of this site called stack overflow...

Joseph
On Sep 18, 2014 10:41 AM, David Connors 
da...@connors.commailto:da...@connors.com wrote:
On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Greg Keogh 
g...@mira.netmailto:g...@mira.net wrote:
Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

Indeed I was thinking that in recent weeks. Either .NET is obsolete and no one 
wants to talk about it, or after a decade in the group everyone is now a ninja 
guru and have no questions.

I just checked the member could - sitting at 322 active members (i.e. people 
mailman hasn't removed due to bounce detection).

David.

Re: [OT] Surface

[Neil Roodyn]

Hi,

Yes no issues with VS. I have the i5 with 8GB RAM.
I thought about waiting for the i7, but then I figured so many of my
customers have machines with lower specs and I don¹t want to build software
that only works on high end machines :)

All the best 
Dr. Neil Roodyn | nsquared
Director | Microsoft Regional Director | MVP
(m) +1 425 445 6409
(w) +61 2 9262 3386
(a)  Suite 303, 75 King Street, Sydney NSW 2000
Follow nsquared on Facebook and Twitter @nsquaredmagic
Learn more about digital tables here -
http://nsquaredblog.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/an-introduction-to-digital-table
s.html
The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this
email in any way.nsquared does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or
attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may
not reflect the views or opinions of nsquared

From:  anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
Reply-To:  ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Date:  Thursday, 18 September 2014 10:47 am
To:  'ozDotNet' ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject:  RE: [OT] Surface

So  Surface 3 can handle VS with no issues..what are the specs?
 
 
Anthony Salerno | Founder | SmallBiz Australia
Innovation | Web | Software | M2M | Developers | Support
Suite 13, 2 Enterprise Drive Bundoora 3083
+613 8400 4191 | 2Anthony (at) smallbiz.com.au  | Po Box 135, Lower Plenty
3093 ABN : 16 079 706 737
www.smallbiz.com.au http://www.smallbiz.com.au/  |
www.linkedin.com/in/innovativetechnology
 
 
 
 
 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Neil Roodyn
Sent: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:54 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface
 

I have had one since release USA and using it for dev just fine.

Frame rate for DX / C++ is not great but anything managed is more than fine.

I cannot use the Surface keyboard, but have it plugged in to a ergonomic KB
and second large DELL monitor.

It feels just like 2003 again, a slate with pen input. :-)

 

Dr. Neil Roodyn | nsquared
Director | Microsoft Regional Director | MVP
(m) +1 425 445 6409
(w) +61 2 9262 3386
(a)  Suite 303, 75 King Street, Sydney NSW 2000
Follow nsquared on Facebook and Twitter @nsquaredmagic
We now have multi-user education applications for Windows 8
https://nsquaredsolutions.com/education/Win8/default.aspx
https://nsquaredsolutions.com/education/Win8/default.aspx

The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this
email in any way.nsquared does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or
attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may
not reflect the views or opinions of nsquared

 

From: Bec Carter bec.usern...@gmail.com
Reply-To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Date: Thursday, 18 September 2014 9:41 am
To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: [OT] Surface

 

Awfully quiet on here. Have people left?

 

Anyway anybody have a surface pro 3? Thoughts so far? Ok for dev work?

Re: [OT] Surface 2 OR Surface Pro 2

[piers.williams]

Wife has a Surface RT, I have a Surface Pro 2.


I got the RT for the wife because she needs email, web and Excel, and it's a 
better machine than the alternatives (ie low-end laptops)


I got the Pro 2 because I needed to replace my existing laptop anyway, and I 
went for the 'one device is all you need’ tag. And that's true to a certain 
extent: without the docking station it's still not the same level of workhorse 
that my work Dell can be (multi monitors etc…) but for what I do at home (code 
on the couch etc…) it's just fine. Better than fine actually. BTW I can't 
remember when I last had a *desktop* PC at home - it's been laptops for over a 
decade for me.


(That being said, I've actually fired up Visual Studio on this the sum total of 
zero times (I've been mostly using SSH apps to connect to my Raspberry Pi, and 
using metro code writer app). So pretty much everything I've done on the Pro 2 
I could have done on the Surface :-( So far…)


The weight of the Pro 2 is fantastic compared to my existing laptop, but it's 
still too heavy to hold comfortably as a magazine for any real duration without 
supporting on your lap. Compared to an iPad it's a brick. The Surface however 
is pretty much spot on. It could always be lighter, but it's light enough you 
don't get thumb cramp holding the thing, and I'm less worried the kids are 
going to drop it (eg when using it as a video screen in the back of the car). 
Mind you, both feel like bricks compared to my Nexus 7 or a Kindle, so I don't 
read books on either.




(Both have pretty good sound by the way)


Things to note:

The Pro / Pro 2 / Surface 2 have HD screens. The Surface RT doesn't (but it's 
still good)

The Surface RT / Surface 2 doesn't have an active digitizer, so no 'real’ pen 
support

If going ‘pro’, definitely get the ‘2’ because of the considerable increase in 
battery life from Haswell. For the RT/Surface 2 there's not such a difference 
(I understand) so I'd save the money and get an RT.

Recommend the v2 keyboards, over the v1s. The 'type 2’s have backlighting (have 
2x these, are great), and the touch 2 is apparently considerably more 
responsive than the 1 and backlit (I would have got one of these for the wife 
had it been in stock)

JB did some stunning deals on the Surface RT before Xmas. Might happen again.


You can get 8gb RAM in a Surface Pro 2 without having to pony up for an i7 
(like most the competition force you to). Much better bang/buck ratio.



Have to say I really envy the weight of the wife's Surface, but since this is 
my only dev box I have to carry the x86 baggage around with me (literally) for 
tinkering’s sake. 




Sent from Surface Pro





From: James Chapman-Smith
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎January‎ ‎1‎, ‎2014 ‎6‎:‎44‎ ‎PM
To: ozDotNet (ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com)






Hi folks,

 

I've made the decision to purchase either a Surface 2 or a Surface Pro 2, but 
I'm completely torn as to which one to get.

 

I just want a tablet device that I can use when travelling, sitting on the 
couch, or in bed. I want a keyboard with trackpad/mouse so the touch cover is 
fine for both. I don't think battery life will be a big issue. I'm likely to 
get HDMI adapter for a Pro.

 

My choices are do I get a Surface 2 as my mobile computing device and use 
desktop PCs at home and work OR do I get a Surface Pro 2 and use it for both 
home and work?

 

Will a Surface Pro 2 really be a laptop/desktop replacement PC or is it a pain 
with the small screen and single USB port? Or is it just an overblown toy and 
I'll miss my laptop?

 

Can anyone give me any argument for one or the other?

 

Cheers.

 

James.

RE: [OT] Surface 2 OR Surface Pro 2

[Paul Glavich]

I bought my daughter a Surface 2 Pro for Xmas so she could use it for school 
(in year 9 this year) and I really like it. Zippy and nice enough form factor. 
If it came with i7 I might have picked one up for myself.

 

-  Glav

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: 02 January 2014 2:59 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface 2 OR Surface Pro 2

 

Given i have more tablets than i can poke a stick at, i think i can give you my 
take on it.

I have a desktop pc (my gaming rig) a surface RT (1 not 2), an asus tab RT, an 
asus gaming laptop, Samsung book 9 plus, dell venue 8.
Nexus 7, 10 and 4. And Nokia 1520. 

Use them all depending which is charged and what I'm doing... Favour the asus 
RT over surface, but to be honest i would not get Rt device. See dell venue 8. 
Best screen is Samsung (quad Hd is awesome, touch screen and great battery)
Love the venue 8, the size is right and i don't take laptop to work anymore, 
why Rt when you can get win 8.1  Love 6 phone (wp8 is good this time 
around).

Typed on my phone :)

If i had to choose just one device it would be the dell venue 8. Got VS premium 
installed on it and mouse, keyboard and external monitor! 

  _  

From: James Chapman-Smith mailto:ja...@chapman-smith.com 
Sent: ‎1/‎01/‎2014 6:44 PM
To: ozDotNet (ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com) mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com 
Subject: [OT] Surface 2 OR Surface Pro 2

Hi folks,

 

I've made the decision to purchase either a Surface 2 or a Surface Pro 2, but 
I'm completely torn as to which one to get.

 

I just want a tablet device that I can use when travelling, sitting on the 
couch, or in bed. I want a keyboard with trackpad/mouse so the touch cover is 
fine for both. I don't think battery life will be a big issue. I'm likely to 
get HDMI adapter for a Pro.

 

My choices are do I get a Surface 2 as my mobile computing device and use 
desktop PCs at home and work OR do I get a Surface Pro 2 and use it for both 
home and work?

 

Will a Surface Pro 2 really be a laptop/desktop replacement PC or is it a pain 
with the small screen and single USB port? Or is it just an overblown toy and 
I'll miss my laptop?

 

Can anyone give me any argument for one or the other?

 

Cheers.

 

James.

RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

[GregAtGregLowDotCom]

I thought it sounded pretty good until I heard from Chris Auld. He seems to
have had a nightmare run with them.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax


SQL Down Under | Web:  http://www.sqldownunder.com/ www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Corneliu I. Tusnea
Sent: Friday, 6 September 2013 9:18 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2

 

How is the Helix?

 

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:01 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com  wrote:

I replace my Surface Pro with a Lenovo Helix. However the person that has
the Surface now loves it. They do a lot of PDF and Word annotations, and
find the ability to just scribble notes, circle things etc. really handy. Of
course, you don't need a Surface to do that, but if that's the main thing
you use a device for, then I can see how it'd be useful.

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:43 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2

 

When Microsoft sent me the Surface Pro I was pretty excited to use it, but
after a week or so I pretty much stopped using it given the whole usage of
it just didn't feel comfortable (heavy, got warm often, stylus was
constantly being lost etc etc). I then gave it to my a co-worker to use
instead thinking maybe I'm just to jaded about it all. He then pretty much
arrived at the same conclusion so he then gave it to our Manager ...and yes,
he ditched as well and then gave it to one of his peers and so far that
guy's about to ditch it as well. ..so it's slowly making the rounds at work
and so far it hasn't found a home as yet (I keep waiting for that person to
say this is awesome so i can then pounce on them, open a notepad  pen and
get them to tell me why etc - professional curiosity).

I was hoping the next generation would try something different to stimulate
a re-up or revisit but if they are just making iPad like adjustments to the
specs then its kind of a weird place to occupy for them given its success
today?




---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

 

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.au
mailto:il.tho...@iinet.net.au  wrote:

Yes, it does seem a Surface-killer - more options (storage, RAM), enough
ports. We await pricing. 

I was impressed by recently-announced Lenovo T440 and T240 series
ultrabooks. 2 batteries, up to 17 hours - a sensible counter to tablets. 

 


  _  


Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

From:  mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[mailto: mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 3:23 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2 

 

There's also this just-announced competitor from Sony:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/sony-vaio-tap-11-hands-on/

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From:  mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 5:14 PM
To:  mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: [OT] Surface Pro 2 

 

Surface Pro 2 ready to go with an adjustable kickstand and improved battery
life

Basically the original Surface Pro is an ultrabook with optional keyboard.
Now it's getting more RAM, and the (Intel) Haswell chips, so performance and
battery life should be greatly improved.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/4/4694838/surface-pro-2-adjustable-kickstand
-haswell-better-battery-life The Verge

 


  _  


Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

 

 

RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

[Tony Wright]

 Surface Pro on a phone - plug in a keyboard  mouse, hit a projector
button, fully fledged windows dev on a phone, now that would truly be cool.
They own a phone company now, but will they ever have a vision?

Sent from my Windows Phone
--
From: Ken Schaefer
Sent: 6/09/2013 10:08 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

If you want a laptop that can be used as a tablet, then it’s the way to
go IMHO.



Cons: it’s heavier than my Sony Z2 that it replaced (with the keyboard
part), and the supplied stylus is rubbish (get a separate pen – any Wacom
Penabled compatible pen will work). Otherwise it’s good – 8GB RAM, 256GB
SSD, 1080p screen, 3G (optional), flexible usage options/configurations.
Has a mini-DP (one on the base, and one on the tablet part) which is
capable of driving large monitors (runs my 2560x1440 monitor without
issues). The only thing that I’d really want is the ability to buy an
additional “keyboard” section as a spare part. Then I could leave one at
home and one at work effectively as a docking station, and just carry the
tablet bit back and forwards.



Cheers

Ken



*From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
*On Behalf Of *Corneliu I. Tusnea
*Sent:* Friday, 6 September 2013 9:18 AM
*To:* ozDotNet
*Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2



How is the Helix?



On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:01 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:

 I replace my Surface Pro with a Lenovo Helix. However the person that has
the Surface now loves it. They do a lot of PDF and Word annotations, and
find the ability to just scribble notes, circle things etc. really handy.
Of course, you don’t need a Surface to do that, but if that’s the main
thing you use a device for, then I can see how it’d be useful.



Cheers

Ken



*From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
*On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
*Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:43 PM
*To:* ozDotNet
*Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2



When Microsoft sent me the Surface Pro I was pretty excited to use it, but
after a week or so I pretty much stopped using it given the whole usage of
it just didn't feel comfortable (heavy, got warm often, stylus was
constantly being lost etc etc). I then gave it to my a co-worker to use
instead thinking maybe I'm just to jaded about it all. He then pretty much
arrived at the same conclusion so he then gave it to our Manager ...and
yes, he ditched as well and then gave it to one of his peers and so far
that guy's about to ditch it as well. ..so it's slowly making the rounds at
work and so far it hasn't found a home as yet (I keep waiting for that
person to say this is awesome so i can then pounce on them, open a
notepad  pen and get them to tell me why etc - professional curiosity).

I was hoping the next generation would try something different to stimulate
a re-up or revisit but if they are just making iPad like adjustments to the
specs then its kind of a weird place to occupy for them given its success
today?


 ---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com



On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 Yes, it does seem a Surface-killer – more options (storage, RAM), enough
ports. We await pricing.

I was impressed by recently-announced Lenovo T440 and T240 series
ultrabooks. 2 batteries, up to 17 hours – a sensible counter to tablets.


 --

Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

*From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
*On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer
*Sent:* Thursday, September 05, 2013 3:23 PM
*To:* ozDotNet
*Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2



There’s also this just-announced competitor from Sony:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/sony-vaio-tap-11-hands-on/



Cheers

Ken



*From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.comozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
*On Behalf Of *Ian Thomas
*Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 5:14 PM
*To:* ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
*Subject:* [OT] Surface Pro 2



*Surface Pro 2 ready to go with an adjustable kickstand and improved
battery life*

Basically the original Surface Pro is an ultrabook with optional keyboard.
Now it's getting more RAM, and the (Intel) Haswell chips, so performance
and battery life should be greatly improved. The
Vergehttp://www.theverge.com/2013/9/4/4694838/surface-pro-2-adjustable-kickstand-haswell-better-battery-life


 --

Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

[Andrew McGrath]

Why not Visual Studio on an MS Smartwatch, projected up onto the wall?
You could run your unit tests overnight and it can buzz to wake you if a test 
fails.


From: Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 3:13 PM
To: Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com, ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

 Surface Pro on a phone - plug in a keyboard  mouse, hit a projector button, 
fully fledged windows dev on a phone, now that would truly be cool. They own a 
phone company now, but will they ever have a vision?

Sent from my Windows Phone


From: Ken Schaefer
Sent: 6/09/2013 10:08 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

If you want a laptop that can be used as a tablet, then it's the way to go IMHO.



Cons: it's heavier than my Sony Z2 that it replaced (with the keyboard part), 
and the supplied stylus is rubbish (get a separate  pen - any Wacom Penabled 
compatible pen will work). Otherwise it's good - 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, 1080p 
screen, 3G (optional), flexible usage options/configurations. Has a mini-DP 
(one on the base, and one on the tablet part) which is capable of driving large 
 monitors (runs my 2560x1440 monitor without issues). The only thing that I'd 
really want is the ability to buy an additional keyboard section as a spare 
part. Then I could leave one at home and one at work effectively as a docking 
station, and just carry  the tablet bit back and forwards.



Cheers

Ken



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Corneliu I. Tusnea
Sent: Friday, 6 September 2013 9:18 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2



How is the Helix?



On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:01 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: 

I replace my Surface Pro with a Lenovo Helix. However the person that has the 
Surface now loves it.  They do a lot of PDF and Word annotations, and find the 
ability to just scribble notes, circle things etc. really handy. Of course, you 
don't need a Surface to do that, but if that's the main thing you use a device 
for, then I can see how it'd be useful.



Cheers

Ken



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:43 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2



When Microsoft sent me the Surface Pro I was pretty excited to use it, but 
after a week or so I pretty much stopped using it given the whole usage of it 
just didn't feel comfortable (heavy,  got warm often, stylus was constantly 
being lost etc etc). I then gave it to my a co-worker to use instead thinking 
maybe I'm just to jaded about it all. He then pretty much arrived at the same 
conclusion so he then gave it to our Manager ...and yes, he ditched  as well 
and then gave it to one of his peers and so far that guy's about to ditch it as 
well. ..so it's slowly making the rounds at work and so far it hasn't found a 
home as yet (I keep waiting for that person to say this is awesome so i can 
then pounce  on them, open a notepad  pen and get them to tell me why etc - 
professional curiosity).

I was hoping the next generation would try something different to stimulate a 
re-up or revisit but if they are just making iPad like adjustments to the specs 
then its kind of a weird place to occupy for them given its success today?

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com



On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote: 

Yes, it does seem a Surface-killer - more options (storage, RAM), enough ports. 
We await pricing.

I was impressed by recently-announced Lenovo T440 and T240 series ultrabooks. 2 
batteries, up to 17 hours  - a sensible counter to tablets.




Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com  [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 3:23 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2



There's also this just-announced competitor from Sony:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/sony-vaio-tap-11-hands-on/



Cheers

Ken



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ian Thomas
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 5:14 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: [OT] Surface Pro 2



Surface Pro 2 ready to go with an adjustable kickstand and improved battery life

Basically the original Surface Pro is an ultrabook with optional keyboard. Now 
it's getting more RAM,  and the (Intel) Haswell chips, so performance and 
battery life should be greatly improved. The Verge




Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

[Ken Schaefer]

There's also this just-announced competitor from Sony:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/sony-vaio-tap-11-hands-on/

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ian Thomas
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 5:14 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: [OT] Surface Pro 2

Surface Pro 2 ready to go with an adjustable kickstand and improved battery life
Basically the original Surface Pro is an ultrabook with optional keyboard. Now 
it's getting more RAM, and the (Intel) Haswell chips, so performance and 
battery life should be greatly improved. The 
Vergehttp://www.theverge.com/2013/9/4/4694838/surface-pro-2-adjustable-kickstand-haswell-better-battery-life


Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

[Ian Thomas]

Yes, it does seem a Surface-killer - more options (storage, RAM), enough
ports. We await pricing. 

I was impressed by recently-announced Lenovo T440 and T240 series
ultrabooks. 2 batteries, up to 17 hours - a sensible counter to tablets. 

 

  _  

Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 3:23 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2 

 

There's also this just-announced competitor from Sony:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/sony-vaio-tap-11-hands-on/

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Ian Thomas
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 5:14 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: [OT] Surface Pro 2 

 

Surface Pro 2 ready to go with an adjustable kickstand and improved battery
life

Basically the original Surface Pro is an ultrabook with optional keyboard.
Now it's getting more RAM, and the (Intel) Haswell chips, so performance and
battery life should be greatly improved. The Verge
http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/4/4694838/surface-pro-2-adjustable-kickstand
-haswell-better-battery-life 

 

  _  

Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2

[Scott Barnes]

When Microsoft sent me the Surface Pro I was pretty excited to use it, but
after a week or so I pretty much stopped using it given the whole usage of
it just didn't feel comfortable (heavy, got warm often, stylus was
constantly being lost etc etc). I then gave it to my a co-worker to use
instead thinking maybe I'm just to jaded about it all. He then pretty much
arrived at the same conclusion so he then gave it to our Manager ...and
yes, he ditched as well and then gave it to one of his peers and so far
that guy's about to ditch it as well. ..so it's slowly making the rounds at
work and so far it hasn't found a home as yet (I keep waiting for that
person to say this is awesome so i can then pounce on them, open a
notepad  pen and get them to tell me why etc - professional curiosity).

I was hoping the next generation would try something different to stimulate
a re-up or revisit but if they are just making iPad like adjustments to the
specs then its kind of a weird place to occupy for them given its success
today?



---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 Yes, it does seem a Surface-killer – more options (storage, RAM), enough
 ports. We await pricing. 

 I was impressed by recently-announced Lenovo T440 and T240 series
 ultrabooks. 2 batteries, up to 17 hours – a sensible counter to tablets. *
 ***

 ** **
 --

 **Ian Thomas**
 Victoria Park, Western Australia

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 05, 2013 3:23 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2 

 ** **

 There’s also this just-announced competitor from Sony:

 http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/sony-vaio-tap-11-hands-on/

 ** **

 Cheers

 Ken

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Ian Thomas
 *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 5:14 PM
 *To:* ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
 *Subject:* [OT] Surface Pro 2 

 ** **

 *Surface Pro 2 ready to go with an adjustable kickstand and improved
 battery life*

 Basically the original Surface Pro is an ultrabook with optional keyboard.
 Now it's getting more RAM, and the (Intel) Haswell chips, so performance
 and battery life should be greatly improved. The 
 Vergehttp://www.theverge.com/2013/9/4/4694838/surface-pro-2-adjustable-kickstand-haswell-better-battery-life
 

 ** **
 --

 Ian Thomas
 Victoria Park, Western Australia

RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

[Ken Schaefer]

I replace my Surface Pro with a Lenovo Helix. However the person that has the 
Surface now loves it. They do a lot of PDF and Word annotations, and find the 
ability to just scribble notes, circle things etc. really handy. Of course, you 
don't need a Surface to do that, but if that's the main thing you use a device 
for, then I can see how it'd be useful.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:43 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2

When Microsoft sent me the Surface Pro I was pretty excited to use it, but 
after a week or so I pretty much stopped using it given the whole usage of it 
just didn't feel comfortable (heavy, got warm often, stylus was constantly 
being lost etc etc). I then gave it to my a co-worker to use instead thinking 
maybe I'm just to jaded about it all. He then pretty much arrived at the same 
conclusion so he then gave it to our Manager ...and yes, he ditched as well and 
then gave it to one of his peers and so far that guy's about to ditch it as 
well. ..so it's slowly making the rounds at work and so far it hasn't found a 
home as yet (I keep waiting for that person to say this is awesome so i can 
then pounce on them, open a notepad  pen and get them to tell me why etc - 
professional curiosity).

I was hoping the next generation would try something different to stimulate a 
re-up or revisit but if they are just making iPad like adjustments to the specs 
then its kind of a weird place to occupy for them given its success today?


---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Ian Thomas 
il.tho...@iinet.net.aumailto:il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote:
Yes, it does seem a Surface-killer - more options (storage, RAM), enough ports. 
We await pricing.
I was impressed by recently-announced Lenovo T440 and T240 series ultrabooks. 2 
batteries, up to 17 hours - a sensible counter to tablets.


Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 3:23 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

There's also this just-announced competitor from Sony:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/sony-vaio-tap-11-hands-on/

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 5:14 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: [OT] Surface Pro 2

Surface Pro 2 ready to go with an adjustable kickstand and improved battery life
Basically the original Surface Pro is an ultrabook with optional keyboard. Now 
it's getting more RAM, and the (Intel) Haswell chips, so performance and 
battery life should be greatly improved. The 
Vergehttp://www.theverge.com/2013/9/4/4694838/surface-pro-2-adjustable-kickstand-haswell-better-battery-life


Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2

[Corneliu I. Tusnea]

How is the Helix?


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:01 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:

  I replace my Surface Pro with a Lenovo Helix. However the person that
 has the Surface now loves it. They do a lot of PDF and Word annotations,
 and find the ability to just scribble notes, circle things etc. really
 handy. Of course, you don’t need a Surface to do that, but if that’s the
 main thing you use a device for, then I can see how it’d be useful.

 ** **

 Cheers

 Ken

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
 *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:43 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2

 ** **

 When Microsoft sent me the Surface Pro I was pretty excited to use it, but
 after a week or so I pretty much stopped using it given the whole usage of
 it just didn't feel comfortable (heavy, got warm often, stylus was
 constantly being lost etc etc). I then gave it to my a co-worker to use
 instead thinking maybe I'm just to jaded about it all. He then pretty much
 arrived at the same conclusion so he then gave it to our Manager ...and
 yes, he ditched as well and then gave it to one of his peers and so far
 that guy's about to ditch it as well. ..so it's slowly making the rounds at
 work and so far it hasn't found a home as yet (I keep waiting for that
 person to say this is awesome so i can then pounce on them, open a
 notepad  pen and get them to tell me why etc - professional curiosity).

 I was hoping the next generation would try something different to
 stimulate a re-up or revisit but if they are just making iPad like
 adjustments to the specs then its kind of a weird place to occupy for them
 given its success today?

 


 

 ---
 Regards,
 Scott Barnes
 http://www.riagenic.com

 ** **

 On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote:
 

  Yes, it does seem a Surface-killer – more options (storage, RAM), enough
 ports. We await pricing. 

 I was impressed by recently-announced Lenovo T440 and T240 series
 ultrabooks. 2 batteries, up to 17 hours – a sensible counter to tablets. *
 ***

  
  --

 Ian Thomas
 Victoria Park, Western Australia

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 05, 2013 3:23 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2 

  

 There’s also this just-announced competitor from Sony:

 http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/sony-vaio-tap-11-hands-on/

  

 Cheers

 Ken

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Ian Thomas
 *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 5:14 PM
 *To:* ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
 *Subject:* [OT] Surface Pro 2 

  

 *Surface Pro 2 ready to go with an adjustable kickstand and improved
 battery life*

 Basically the original Surface Pro is an ultrabook with optional keyboard.
 Now it's getting more RAM, and the (Intel) Haswell chips, so performance
 and battery life should be greatly improved. The 
 Vergehttp://www.theverge.com/2013/9/4/4694838/surface-pro-2-adjustable-kickstand-haswell-better-battery-life
 

  
  --

 Ian Thomas
 Victoria Park, Western Australia

  ** **

RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

[Ken Schaefer]

If you want a laptop that can be used as a tablet, then it's the way to go IMHO.

Cons: it's heavier than my Sony Z2 that it replaced (with the keyboard part), 
and the supplied stylus is rubbish (get a separate pen - any Wacom Penabled 
compatible pen will work). Otherwise it's good - 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, 1080p 
screen, 3G (optional), flexible usage options/configurations. Has a mini-DP 
(one on the base, and one on the tablet part) which is capable of driving large 
monitors (runs my 2560x1440 monitor without issues). The only thing that I'd 
really want is the ability to buy an additional keyboard section as a spare 
part. Then I could leave one at home and one at work effectively as a docking 
station, and just carry the tablet bit back and forwards.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Corneliu I. Tusnea
Sent: Friday, 6 September 2013 9:18 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2

How is the Helix?

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:01 PM, Ken Schaefer 
k...@adopenstatic.commailto:k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:
I replace my Surface Pro with a Lenovo Helix. However the person that has the 
Surface now loves it. They do a lot of PDF and Word annotations, and find the 
ability to just scribble notes, circle things etc. really handy. Of course, you 
don't need a Surface to do that, but if that's the main thing you use a device 
for, then I can see how it'd be useful.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:43 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface Pro 2

When Microsoft sent me the Surface Pro I was pretty excited to use it, but 
after a week or so I pretty much stopped using it given the whole usage of it 
just didn't feel comfortable (heavy, got warm often, stylus was constantly 
being lost etc etc). I then gave it to my a co-worker to use instead thinking 
maybe I'm just to jaded about it all. He then pretty much arrived at the same 
conclusion so he then gave it to our Manager ...and yes, he ditched as well and 
then gave it to one of his peers and so far that guy's about to ditch it as 
well. ..so it's slowly making the rounds at work and so far it hasn't found a 
home as yet (I keep waiting for that person to say this is awesome so i can 
then pounce on them, open a notepad  pen and get them to tell me why etc - 
professional curiosity).

I was hoping the next generation would try something different to stimulate a 
re-up or revisit but if they are just making iPad like adjustments to the specs 
then its kind of a weird place to occupy for them given its success today?

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Ian Thomas 
il.tho...@iinet.net.aumailto:il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote:
Yes, it does seem a Surface-killer - more options (storage, RAM), enough ports. 
We await pricing.
I was impressed by recently-announced Lenovo T440 and T240 series ultrabooks. 2 
batteries, up to 17 hours - a sensible counter to tablets.


Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 3:23 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface Pro 2

There's also this just-announced competitor from Sony:
http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/04/sony-vaio-tap-11-hands-on/

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 5:14 PM
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: [OT] Surface Pro 2

Surface Pro 2 ready to go with an adjustable kickstand and improved battery life
Basically the original Surface Pro is an ultrabook with optional keyboard. Now 
it's getting more RAM, and the (Intel) Haswell chips, so performance and 
battery life should be greatly improved. The 
Vergehttp://www.theverge.com/2013/9/4/4694838/surface-pro-2-adjustable-kickstand-haswell-better-battery-life


Ian Thomas
Victoria Park, Western Australia

Re: [OT] Surface Pro for a bit of coding?

[Neil Young]

Tom,

No bad experiences here.  I've been using it for developing a Windows RT
app, as I didn't have another windows 8 machine.  I'm running VS and SQL
Server Dev Edtion without any issues.  It's quite nice really.  If you plug
an external keyboard mouse and monitor into it it's really like any other
portable device.

I've got the type cover as well which is great, I wouldn't like to develop
full time on just the type cover but it's great in trains planes etc.

Neil.


On 1 August 2013 19:30, Tom Rutter therut...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyone here had any bad experience running VS on a Surface Pro? My son has
 been dabbling with code for a while and now wants to get more into VS. He
 wants a Surface but needs a new desktop at home so I was thinking of
 killing two birds with one stone. Already have the external monitor and co.

Re: [OT] Surface Pro for a bit of coding?

[Tom Rutter]

Yup he'll just use it with external stuff at home and as a tablet
elsewhere. More expensive than I assumed. $1024 for 128gb pro and only $100
less for 64gb.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Corneliu I. Tusnea
corne...@acorns.com.auwrote:

 Tom,

 I researched this a bit and seems to be a very viable option:

 http://www.wintellect.com/blogs/jrobbins/visual-studio-and-the-surface-pro-great-news-and-not-so-great-news
 http://mobile.dzone.com/articles/my-surface-pro-review

 Apparently you should really use a good keyboard of the Type Cover.

 I'm thinking of buying one as well but not right now



 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Tom Rutter therut...@gmail.com wrote:

 Anyone here had any bad experience running VS on a Surface Pro? My son
 has been dabbling with code for a while and now wants to get more into VS.
 He wants a Surface but needs a new desktop at home so I was thinking of
 killing two birds with one stone. Already have the external monitor and co.

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

So, did anyone try what I suggested?  Run a screen reader against a metro 
application?  So that you know I’m not kidding you?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:49 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

AV clients aren’t a blocker for most enterprise client migrations. Usually the 
blocker is the huge cost involved, due to the large number of people involved 
in getting the release out


-  Need to go and gather requirements from many business units

-  Need to go and find out all the differences (e.g. new security 
settings/defaults) between the old platform and the new one, and then get the 
security group (and regulators etc.) to sign off on the new proposed standard

-  Need to do sociability testing of all the base infrastructure 
(including end-point protection, but also VPN clients, monitoring tools, 
deployment tools, asset tracking tools, provisioning tools, procurement tools)

-  Need to do sociability testing of business apps (e.g. a big bank 
will have hundreds of apps)

-  Need to create the necessary builds, scripts etc. and update 
deployment infrastructure to cater for the new platform.

-  Need to validate which hardware models the new build will actually 
work on, and work to retire the rest

-  Need to work out how to migrate existing user data during the 
upgrade process

-  Need to get all the necessary support in place (e.g. floor walkers), 
plus user guides / self-help training etc, negotiate roll out schedules with 
business units blah blah

For really big orgs, with hundreds of thousands of seats, you never really 
finish one upgrade before you’re already planning the next one. The end-point 
protection client is probably the least of the issues.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 6:05 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

The reality is most Enterprises that have moved to Windows 7 aren't likely to 
rush out again on Windows 8, they'll probably want the dust to settle and lot 
of time the stalling point for migration between Operating Systems isn't just 
SOE red-tape its often because Virus scanners themselves haven't gotten their 
act together to produce a solid build for the latest edition (i'm looking at 
you Symantec) . oh yes despite their being a built-in Virus scanner in 
Windows 8

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

Yes, it's anything written in Windows 8 modern.  Look at it for yourself; 
you'll understand.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:28 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Is it just the Apps in Metro store are you talking about the store itself and 
the OS?

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 6:20 AM, Katherine Moss 
katherine.m...@gordon.edumailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu wrote:
So, did anyone try what I suggested?  Run a screen reader against a metro 
application?  So that you know I'm not kidding you?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:49 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

AV clients aren't a blocker for most enterprise client migrations. Usually the 
blocker is the huge cost involved, due to the large number of people involved 
in getting the release out


-  Need to go and gather requirements from many business units

-  Need to go and find out all the differences (e.g. new security 
settings/defaults) between the old platform and the new one, and then get the 
security group (and regulators etc.) to sign off on the new proposed standard

-  Need to do sociability testing of all the base infrastructure 
(including end-point protection, but also VPN clients, monitoring tools, 
deployment tools, asset tracking tools, provisioning tools, procurement tools)

-  Need to do sociability testing of business apps (e.g. a big bank 
will have hundreds of apps)

-  Need to create the necessary builds, scripts etc. and update 
deployment infrastructure to cater for the new platform.

-  Need to validate which hardware models the new build will actually 
work on, and work to retire the rest

-  Need to work out how to migrate existing user data during the 
upgrade process

-  Need to get all the necessary support in place (e.g. floor walkers), 
plus user guides / self-help training etc, negotiate roll out schedules with 
business units blah blah

For really big orgs, with hundreds of thousands of seats, you never really 
finish one upgrade before you're already planning the next one. The end-point 
protection client is probably the least of the issues.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 6:05 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

The reality is most Enterprises that have moved to Windows 7 aren't likely to 
rush out again on Windows 8, they'll probably want the dust to settle and lot 
of time the stalling point for migration between Operating Systems isn't just 
SOE red-tape its often because Virus scanners themselves haven't gotten their 
act together to produce a solid build for the latest edition (i'm looking at 
you Symantec) . oh yes despite their being a built-in Virus scanner in 
Windows 8

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Jason Roberts]

30 day free trial :)

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Scott Barnes]

I'm trying to seperate Dev vs Microsoft here.. in that if a dev writes
an App that isn't accessible ..different punch-up ... if Microsoft do
that... thats cause for concern (lead by example etc).


---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Katherine Moss
katherine.m...@gordon.eduwrote:

  Yes, it’s anything written in Windows 8 modern.  Look at it for
 yourself; you’ll understand.  

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
 *Sent:* Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:28 PM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 Is it just the Apps in Metro store are you talking about the store itself
 and the OS?


 

 ---
 Regards,
 Scott Barnes
 http://www.riagenic.com

 ** **

 On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 6:20 AM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
 wrote:

 So, did anyone try what I suggested?  Run a screen reader against a metro
 application?  So that you know I’m not kidding you?  

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer
 *Sent:* Thursday, April 18, 2013 12:49 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  

 AV clients aren’t a blocker for most enterprise client migrations. Usually
 the blocker is the huge cost involved, due to the large number of people
 involved in getting the release out

  

 -  Need to go and gather requirements from many business units

 -  Need to go and find out all the differences (e.g. new security
 settings/defaults) between the old platform and the new one, and then get
 the security group (and regulators etc.) to sign off on the new proposed
 standard

 -  Need to do sociability testing of all the base infrastructure
 (including end-point protection, but also VPN clients, monitoring tools,
 deployment tools, asset tracking tools, provisioning tools, procurement
 tools)

 -  Need to do sociability testing of business apps (e.g. a big
 bank will have hundreds of apps)

 -  Need to create the necessary builds, scripts etc. and update
 deployment infrastructure to cater for the new platform.

 -  Need to validate which hardware models the new build will
 actually work on, and work to retire the rest

 -  Need to work out how to migrate existing user data during the
 upgrade process

 -  Need to get all the necessary support in place (e.g. floor
 walkers), plus user guides / self-help training etc, negotiate roll out
 schedules with business units blah blah

  

 For really big orgs, with hundreds of thousands of seats, you never really
 finish one upgrade before you’re already planning the next one. The
 end-point protection client is probably the least of the issues.

  

 Cheers

 Ken

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 17 April 2013 6:05 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  

 The reality is most Enterprises that have moved to Windows 7 aren't likely
 to rush out again on Windows 8, they'll probably want the dust to settle
 and lot of time the stalling point for migration between Operating Systems
 isn't just SOE red-tape its often because Virus scanners themselves haven't
 gotten their act together to produce a solid build for the latest edition
 (i'm looking at you Symantec) . oh yes despite their being a built-in
 Virus scanner in Windows 8

  

  

  

  

 ** **

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Scott Barnes]

Don't disagree i put all of that under the SOE readiness banner.. I have
seen a few organisations that use AV as a blocking issue for migration as
assuming you get all the other change management protocols under control if
the slightest hint of Your computers aren't protected appears they in
turn pounce on it.

I've also seen a fight break out or two electronically over the merits of
adopting a 3rd party virus scanner over the inbuilt one within Windows 8
given the total amount of patterns aren't int he 90's+ compared to the
inbuilt one being in the 60s+... I think the end was that the Windows 8
didn't cover off all virus's given that most of the virus's that aren't
being covered dont exist anymore or have not shown any signs
of reappearing or rely on old ways to breach the OS ...

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:

  AV clients aren’t a blocker for most enterprise client migrations.
 Usually the blocker is the huge cost involved, due to the large number of
 people involved in getting the release out

 ** **

 **-  **Need to go and gather requirements from many business units
 

 **-  **Need to go and find out all the differences (e.g. new
 security settings/defaults) between the old platform and the new one, and
 then get the security group (and regulators etc.) to sign off on the new
 proposed standard

 **-  **Need to do sociability testing of all the base
 infrastructure (including end-point protection, but also VPN clients,
 monitoring tools, deployment tools, asset tracking tools, provisioning
 tools, procurement tools)

 **-  **Need to do sociability testing of business apps (e.g. a
 big bank will have hundreds of apps)

 **-  **Need to create the necessary builds, scripts etc. and
 update deployment infrastructure to cater for the new platform.

 **-  **Need to validate which hardware models the new build will
 actually work on, and work to retire the rest

 **-  **Need to work out how to migrate existing user data during
 the upgrade process

 **-  **Need to get all the necessary support in place (e.g. floor
 walkers), plus user guides / self-help training etc, negotiate roll out
 schedules with business units blah blah

 ** **

 For really big orgs, with hundreds of thousands of seats, you never really
 finish one upgrade before you’re already planning the next one. The
 end-point protection client is probably the least of the issues.

 ** **

 Cheers

 Ken

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 17 April 2013 6:05 PM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 The reality is most Enterprises that have moved to Windows 7 aren't likely
 to rush out again on Windows 8, they'll probably want the dust to settle
 and lot of time the stalling point for migration between Operating Systems
 isn't just SOE red-tape its often because Virus scanners themselves haven't
 gotten their act together to produce a solid build for the latest edition
 (i'm looking at you Symantec) . oh yes despite their being a built-in
 Virus scanner in Windows 8

 ** **

 ** **

  

 ** **

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Jason Roberts]

Good point Scott 

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Scott Barnes]

I would have thought by now virus / security for mainstream issues has been
streamlined given companies also are opting in for the BYOD scenarios?

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:

  No enterprise I’ve ever done work for uses the in-built Microsoft
 virus/malware tools because there are no central management tools for them
 (you have to go to Forefront Endpoint Protection/SCEP instead). The license
 for Microsoft Security Essentials (from memory) prohibits you from using it
 orgs with more than 10 users anyway.

 ** **

 Secondly, most enterprise end point protection tools do FW, AV, HIPS, NAC
 etc in one tool, with one reporting console. 

 ** **

 That’s why hardly anyone (to date) in big orgs uses the Microsoft stuff.**
 **

 ** **

 Cheers

 Ken

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
 *Sent:* Friday, 19 April 2013 11:46 AM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 Don't disagree i put all of that under the SOE readiness banner.. I have
 seen a few organisations that use AV as a blocking issue for migration as
 assuming you get all the other change management protocols under control if
 the slightest hint of Your computers aren't protected appears they in
 turn pounce on it.

 ** **

 I've also seen a fight break out or two electronically over the merits of
 adopting a 3rd party virus scanner over the inbuilt one within Windows 8
 given the total amount of patterns aren't int he 90's+ compared to the
 inbuilt one being in the 60s+... I think the end was that the Windows 8
 didn't cover off all virus's given that most of the virus's that aren't
 being covered dont exist anymore or have not shown any signs
 of reappearing or rely on old ways to breach the OS ...


 

 ---
 Regards,
 Scott Barnes
 http://www.riagenic.com

 ** **

 On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com
 wrote:

  AV clients aren’t a blocker for most enterprise client migrations.
 Usually the blocker is the huge cost involved, due to the large number of
 people involved in getting the release out

  

 -  Need to go and gather requirements from many business units

 -  Need to go and find out all the differences (e.g. new security
 settings/defaults) between the old platform and the new one, and then get
 the security group (and regulators etc.) to sign off on the new proposed
 standard

 -  Need to do sociability testing of all the base infrastructure
 (including end-point protection, but also VPN clients, monitoring tools,
 deployment tools, asset tracking tools, provisioning tools, procurement
 tools)

 -  Need to do sociability testing of business apps (e.g. a big
 bank will have hundreds of apps)

 -  Need to create the necessary builds, scripts etc. and update
 deployment infrastructure to cater for the new platform.

 -  Need to validate which hardware models the new build will
 actually work on, and work to retire the rest

 -  Need to work out how to migrate existing user data during the
 upgrade process

 -  Need to get all the necessary support in place (e.g. floor
 walkers), plus user guides / self-help training etc, negotiate roll out
 schedules with business units blah blah

  

 For really big orgs, with hundreds of thousands of seats, you never really
 finish one upgrade before you’re already planning the next one. The
 end-point protection client is probably the least of the issues.

  

 Cheers

 Ken

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 17 April 2013 6:05 PM


 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  

 The reality is most Enterprises that have moved to Windows 7 aren't likely
 to rush out again on Windows 8, they'll probably want the dust to settle
 and lot of time the stalling point for migration between Operating Systems
 isn't just SOE red-tape its often because Virus scanners themselves haven't
 gotten their act together to produce a solid build for the latest edition
 (i'm looking at you Symantec) . oh yes despite their being a built-in
 Virus scanner in Windows 8

  

  

  

  

  ** **

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Ken Schaefer]

I don't understand the point you're trying to get across - I was just saying 
that most enterprise AV does a lot more than just AV, and that I don't know any 
enterprise that uses the built-in AV (or MSE) because there's no 
management/reporting tools for it.

FWIW, most BYOD I've seen involves the user installing the company's end-point 
client (or agreeing that they have something similar installed), but then 
accessing all the company's apps through VDI or XenApp etc. Because the apps 
and data aren't on the end user's machine, end point protection and management 
becomes less of an issue.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Friday, 19 April 2013 2:45 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

I would have thought by now virus / security for mainstream issues has been 
streamlined given companies also are opting in for the BYOD scenarios?

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Ken Schaefer 
k...@adopenstatic.commailto:k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:
No enterprise I've ever done work for uses the in-built Microsoft virus/malware 
tools because there are no central management tools for them (you have to go to 
Forefront Endpoint Protection/SCEP instead). The license for Microsoft Security 
Essentials (from memory) prohibits you from using it orgs with more than 10 
users anyway.

Secondly, most enterprise end point protection tools do FW, AV, HIPS, NAC etc 
in one tool, with one reporting console.

That's why hardly anyone (to date) in big orgs uses the Microsoft stuff.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Friday, 19 April 2013 11:46 AM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Don't disagree i put all of that under the SOE readiness banner.. I have seen a 
few organisations that use AV as a blocking issue for migration as assuming you 
get all the other change management protocols under control if the slightest 
hint of Your computers aren't protected appears they in turn pounce on it.

I've also seen a fight break out or two electronically over the merits of 
adopting a 3rd party virus scanner over the inbuilt one within Windows 8 given 
the total amount of patterns aren't int he 90's+ compared to the inbuilt one 
being in the 60s+... I think the end was that the Windows 8 didn't cover off 
all virus's given that most of the virus's that aren't being covered dont 
exist anymore or have not shown any signs of reappearing or rely on old ways 
to breach the OS ...

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Ken Schaefer 
k...@adopenstatic.commailto:k...@adopenstatic.com wrote:
AV clients aren't a blocker for most enterprise client migrations. Usually the 
blocker is the huge cost involved, due to the large number of people involved 
in getting the release out


-  Need to go and gather requirements from many business units

-  Need to go and find out all the differences (e.g. new security 
settings/defaults) between the old platform and the new one, and then get the 
security group (and regulators etc.) to sign off on the new proposed standard

-  Need to do sociability testing of all the base infrastructure 
(including end-point protection, but also VPN clients, monitoring tools, 
deployment tools, asset tracking tools, provisioning tools, procurement tools)

-  Need to do sociability testing of business apps (e.g. a big bank 
will have hundreds of apps)

-  Need to create the necessary builds, scripts etc. and update 
deployment infrastructure to cater for the new platform.

-  Need to validate which hardware models the new build will actually 
work on, and work to retire the rest

-  Need to work out how to migrate existing user data during the 
upgrade process

-  Need to get all the necessary support in place (e.g. floor walkers), 
plus user guides / self-help training etc, negotiate roll out schedules with 
business units blah blah

For really big orgs, with hundreds of thousands of seats, you never really 
finish one upgrade before you're already planning the next one. The end-point 
protection client is probably the least of the issues.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 6:05 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

The reality is most Enterprises that have moved to Windows 7 aren't likely to 
rush out again on Windows 8, they'll probably want the dust to settle and lot 
of time the stalling point for migration between Operating Systems isn't just 
SOE red-tape its often

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[David Kean]

That is not true. JavaScript/HTML is nowhere close to .NET in the store.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:47 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern apps 
(I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on a mobile 
phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where's the C# or VB in them? 
 And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework sounds more like a 
kill-off rather than an enhancement.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html allow 
one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework. Knowing 
knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.

On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter 
bec.usern...@gmail.commailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com wrote:
.net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging back 
again

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss 
katherine.m...@gordon.edumailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu wrote:
I disagree, still.  WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to 4.5 of 
the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN.  And besides, 
since Windows 8 modern apps are so limited in their feature set compared to 
what we know currently today, I sort of consider Microsoft a little crazy for 
thinking that everyone's going to accept less than what they have now.  And 
that's what scares me about the Gemini update for Office coming in the future 
since in order to metro-ize Office completely, according to sources of Mary Joe 
Fowley on All About Microsoft over at ZDNet, she says that what people are 
telling her is that the update will be a subset of the current feature set.  
And that's what gets me; what about enthusiasts who need more than just a 
Fisher Price version?  What if we want all of the cool features?  What is 
Microsoft telling us to do, never move on because they are interested in 
depleting stuff?
And then in terms of .net being taken over by HTML and JavaScript?  How much 
more 1990's can you get?  Come on, jees.  I'll never accept a version of 
Windows or it's successors without .net installed and living in some form.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:27 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Its legacy simply because no investment will be put into it. Windows XP is 
legacy even though I still see people inside a Fortune 500 company right now 
using at as a desktop OS.

Silverlight/WPF concepts and IP were consolidated and rehydrated into the 
Windows 8 XAML runtime so in a way Legacy would also imply that the vNext is 
the new and the older version are the old (just like Silverlight 2 is legacy 
vs Silverlight 4). The problem is Microsoft didn't understand what the notion 
of a messaging framework is in terms of Marketing and so they left that part 
out creating this whole conversation right now around Legacy true/false.

Its also legacy because of the uncertainty in a lot of enterprise/companies 
around the AS-IS futures they've in turn suspended investment or looking to 
shift to a HTML5 deployment model or are open to new ideas around next bets. 
That's not to say a new project isnt created every 5secs in WPF/SL today... 
it's just not advertised and creates this whole is it alive or isnt it 
question.

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:55 AM, Katherine Moss 
katherine.m...@gordon.edumailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu wrote:
I don't know why people keep calling stuff like WPF and Win32/64 applications 
old and legacy.  I still see people using WPF all the time, so obviously it's 
still got some spirit in it.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 2:14 AM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

RT totally rocks, since I got it haven't put it down, it is just pure awesome.
It is light, app switching and screen splitting are so easy.

Since I got one I cant remember a day I didn't have it in my hand, most of 
times without the cover.

I would like a Pro for alternative set of reasons, but RT will still be lighter.

Regards

Arjang



On 2 April 2013 10:49, James Chapman-Smith 
ja...@chapman-smith.commailto:ja...@chapman-smith.com wrote:
Hi Folks,

I'm thinking about getting myself either

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[jasion4]

Yeah, I’ve also heard on various podcasts that while there are a good deal of 
HTML/JS apps in the store they are not the majority. I chose XAML/C# for my 
apps as I’ve done Silverlight/WPF/Win Phone so seemed like the logical choice 
for me (I also happen to like XAML, Blend etc) but it’s certainly not a 
religious thing just a personal choice. Also I happen to love C#  I might even 
try writing my next Windows Store app in HTML/js/css just to see what it’s 
like...



Sent from Windows Mail



From: David Kean
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎17‎ ‎April‎ ‎2013 ‎3‎:‎28‎ ‎PM
To: ozDotNet



That is not true. JavaScript/HTML is nowhere close to .NET in the store.

 



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Katherine Moss
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:47 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 

Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern apps 
(I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on a mobile 
phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where’s the C# or VB in them? 
 And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework sounds more like a 
kill-off rather than an enhancement.  

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 


Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html allow 
one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework. Knowing 
knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.


 


On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter bec.usern...@gmail.com wrote:

.net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging back 
again



 


On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu 
wrote:



I disagree, still.  WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to 4.5 of 
the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN.  And besides, 
since Windows 8 modern apps are so limited in their feature set compared to 
what we know currently today, I sort of consider Microsoft a little crazy for 
thinking that everyone’s going to accept less than what they have now.  And 
that’s what scares me about the “Gemini” update for Office coming in the future 
since in order to metro-ize Office completely, according to sources of Mary Joe 
Fowley on All About Microsoft over at ZDNet, she says that what people are 
telling her is that the update will be a subset of the current feature set.  
And that’s what gets me; what about enthusiasts who need more than just a 
Fisher Price version?  What if we want all of the cool features?  What is 
Microsoft telling us to do, never move on because they are interested in 
depleting stuff?  

And then in terms of .net being taken over by HTML and JavaScript?  How much 
more 1990’s can you get?  Come on, jees.  I’ll never accept a version of 
Windows or it’s successors without .net installed and living in some form.  

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:27 PM




To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?



 


Its legacy simply because no investment will be put into it. Windows XP is 
legacy even though I still see people inside a Fortune 500 company right now 
using at as a desktop OS. 


 


Silverlight/WPF concepts and IP were consolidated and rehydrated into the 
Windows 8 XAML runtime so in a way Legacy would also imply that the vNext is 
the new and the older version are the old (just like Silverlight 2 is legacy 
vs Silverlight 4). The problem is Microsoft didn't understand what the notion 
of a messaging framework is in terms of Marketing and so they left that part 
out creating this whole conversation right now around Legacy true/false.

Its also legacy because of the uncertainty in a lot of enterprise/companies 
around the AS-IS futures they've in turn suspended investment or looking to 
shift to a HTML5 deployment model or are open to new ideas around next bets. 
That's not to say a new project isnt created every 5secs in WPF/SL today... 
it's just not advertised and creates this whole is it alive or isnt it 
question.






---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

 


On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:55 AM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu 
wrote:



I don’t know why people keep calling stuff like WPF and Win32/64 applications 
“old and legacy”.  I still see people using WPF all the time, so obviously it’s 
still got some spirit in it.  

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 2:14 AM



To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 



RT totally rocks, since I got it haven't put it down, it is just pure awesome.




It is light, app switching

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Scott Barnes]

To be fair, the whole Win8 vs WPF/SL is really not a big deal. The more I
dug around behind the scenes the more I arrived at the conclusion that Win8
= WPF  SL vNext.. in that around 2008 the WPF team were asked to find a
way to bring WPF to parity with Silverlight and focus on getting a collated
solution together. I think from that the whole genesis of XAML Runtime in
Win8 was the lineage to that, meaning sure the actual code changed to get
it ARM compliant and to fit in with the quality bands etc associated with
Windows 8 team's ..but ultimately the same Intellectual Property (aka
ideas, API styles) were kept intact with additional improvements (eg.
async).

The only thing I find completely retarded about this is that the company
went all-in on the strategy about windows 8 (arrogance fuelled by
ignorance or the other way around). They could have produced a conduit
release for WPF/SL called Windows Light or whatever the hell you can
dream up around branding. This is essentially the same approach to the
runtime used on the Windows 8 Phone whereby you take a small footprint /
subset of Windows 8 and hand it back to the developer horde as a transition
platform between old and new.

You hand the vNext runtime with a big fat warning label on it This is the
last version, it only exists as a bridge between Windows Vista/7 and
Windows 8. It will only work on Windows 7 operating systems and you will
have access to a subset of its features similar to Portable Library (only
less broken promises)..

Why would you do that? You get the entire developer base used to playing
around with the new namespace for starters and you also start building
muscle in the enterprise ranks around the whole transition between their
old bets and new. So the IP that folks invest in today can be re-used in
Windows 8 and Windows 7 only complimenting that entire churn you get in the
whole transition period(s) between upgrades.

The reality is most Enterprises that have moved to Windows 7 aren't likely
to rush out again on Windows 8, they'll probably want the dust to settle
and lot of time the stalling point for migration between Operating Systems
isn't just SOE red-tape its often because Virus scanners themselves haven't
gotten their act together to produce a solid build for the latest edition
(i'm looking at you Symantec) . oh yes despite their being a built-in
Virus scanner in Windows 8

my 2c.

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 5:39 PM, jasi...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

 Yeah, I’ve also heard on various podcasts that while there are a good deal
 of HTML/JS apps in the store they are not the majority. I chose XAML/C# for
 my apps as I’ve done Silverlight/WPF/Win Phone so seemed like the logical
 choice for me (I also happen to like XAML, Blend etc) but it’s certainly
 not a religious thing just a personal choice. Also I happen to love C#  I
 might even try writing my next Windows Store app in HTML/js/css just to see
 what it’s like...

 Sent from Windows Mail

 *From:* David Kean
 *Sent:* ‎Wednesday‎, ‎17‎ ‎April‎ ‎2013 ‎3‎:‎28‎ ‎PM
 *To:* ozDotNet


 That is not true. JavaScript/HTML is nowhere close to .NET in the store.



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Katherine Moss
 *Sent:* Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:47 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?



 Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern
 apps (I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on
 a mobile phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where’s the C#
 or VB in them?  And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework
 sounds more like a kill-off rather than an enhancement.



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Arjang Assadi
 *Sent:* Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?



 Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html
 allow one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework.
 Knowing knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.



 On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter bec.usern...@gmail.com wrote:

 .net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging
 back again



 On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
 wrote:

 I disagree, still.  WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to
 4.5 of the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN.
 And besides, since Windows 8 modern apps are so limited in their feature
 set compared to what we know currently today, I sort of consider Microsoft
 a little crazy for thinking that everyone’s going to accept less than what
 they have now.  And that’s what scares me about the “Gemini” update for
 Office coming in the future since in order to metro-ize Office

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Scott Barnes]

REALLY?..

Had not known that... I mean in all honesty if there was one UI theme that
you could make accessible cheaply it would be the metro/modern design
theme.. its freaking wireframes coloured in ffs? ... I'd love to know more
about that now...

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:46 PM, Katherine Moss
katherine.m...@gordon.eduwrote:

  Right, but this doesn’t at all address the accessibility problem with
 windows 8 modern.  Are you guys aware that blind users and users of screen
 readers and assistive technology like me are completely or 90percent cut
 off from the tiled world because no accessibility testing is done on these
 new apps?  Out of all the apps in the store, I can only get three to work
 even close to satisfactorally with any screen reader (system Access
 preferred) and those three are builtin apps; messanger, Sky Drive, and the
 store app itself.  None of the others (even if the accessibility rating
 says “yes”), are actually accessible either producing no speech output when
 a screen reader looks for something to output, or producing less than
 satisfactory speech feedback.  Maybe I would be more accepting of the new
 style if the new style were accepting of blind individuals and that
 accessibility testing were part of the criteria for certification?  

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Fredericks, Chris
 *Sent:* Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:36 AM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  ** **

 I am a recent convert to Xamarin products to do cross-platform development
 all in C# for iOS, Android and Windows – all from within Visual Studio 2012
 using a Mac mini as the iOS build server.  Not cheap at $999 per platform,
 but there are free Starter and $299 independent developer editions.

 ** **

 http://www.xamarin.com

 ** **

 I licensed the iOS and Android Xamarin products so I can now build those
 platforms in addition to all things Windows/Windows Phone all using C#
 which I also happen to love, and have no plans to use HTML/JS whatsoever.*
 ***

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *jasi...@yahoo.co.uk
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 17 April 2013 5:39 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 Yeah, I’ve also heard on various podcasts that while there are a good deal
 of HTML/JS apps in the store they are not the majority. I chose XAML/C# for
 my apps as I’ve done Silverlight/WPF/Win Phone so seemed like the logical
 choice for me (I also happen to like XAML, Blend etc) but it’s certainly
 not a religious thing just a personal choice. Also I happen to love C#  I
 might even try writing my next Windows Store app in HTML/js/css just to see
 what it’s like...

  

 Sent from Windows Mail

  

 *From:* David Kean
 *Sent:* ‎Wednesday‎, ‎17‎ ‎April‎ ‎2013 ‎3‎:‎28‎ ‎PM
 *To:* ozDotNet

  

 That is not true. JavaScript/HTML is nowhere close to .NET in the store.**
 **

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Katherine Moss
 *Sent:* Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:47 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  

 Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern
 apps (I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on
 a mobile phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where’s the C#
 or VB in them?  And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework
 sounds more like a kill-off rather than an enhancement.  

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Arjang Assadi
 *Sent:* Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  

 Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html
 allow one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework.
 Knowing knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.

  

 On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter bec.usern...@gmail.com wrote:

 .net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging
 back again

  

 On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
 wrote:

 I disagree, still.  WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to
 4.5 of the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN.
 And besides, since Windows 8 modern apps are so limited in their feature
 set compared to what we know currently today, I sort of consider Microsoft
 a little crazy for thinking that everyone’s going to accept less than what
 they have now.  And that’s what scares me about the “Gemini” update for
 Office coming

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[mike smith]

Paranoia about other apps/sites screenscraping content, do you think?  THe
tendency to bury text into bitmaps rather than display it in vanilla HTML
happens because of this.

Mike

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 6:27 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote:

 REALLY?..

 Had not known that... I mean in all honesty if there was one UI theme that
 you could make accessible cheaply it would be the metro/modern design
 theme.. its freaking wireframes coloured in ffs? ... I'd love to know more
 about that now...

 ---
 Regards,
 Scott Barnes
 http://www.riagenic.com


 On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:46 PM, Katherine Moss 
 katherine.m...@gordon.edu wrote:

  Right, but this doesn’t at all address the accessibility problem with
 windows 8 modern.  Are you guys aware that blind users and users of screen
 readers and assistive technology like me are completely or 90percent cut
 off from the tiled world because no accessibility testing is done on these
 new apps?  Out of all the apps in the store, I can only get three to work
 even close to satisfactorally with any screen reader (system Access
 preferred) and those three are builtin apps; messanger, Sky Drive, and the
 store app itself.  None of the others (even if the accessibility rating
 says “yes”), are actually accessible either producing no speech output when
 a screen reader looks for something to output, or producing less than
 satisfactory speech feedback.  Maybe I would be more accepting of the new
 style if the new style were accepting of blind individuals and that
 accessibility testing were part of the criteria for certification?  

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Fredericks, Chris
 *Sent:* Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:36 AM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  ** **

 I am a recent convert to Xamarin products to do cross-platform
 development all in C# for iOS, Android and Windows – all from within Visual
 Studio 2012 using a Mac mini as the iOS build server.  Not cheap at $999
 per platform, but there are free Starter and $299 independent developer
 editions.

 ** **

 http://www.xamarin.com

 ** **

 I licensed the iOS and Android Xamarin products so I can now build those
 platforms in addition to all things Windows/Windows Phone all using C#
 which I also happen to love, and have no plans to use HTML/JS whatsoever.
 

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *jasi...@yahoo.co.uk
 *Sent:* Wednesday, 17 April 2013 5:39 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 Yeah, I’ve also heard on various podcasts that while there are a good
 deal of HTML/JS apps in the store they are not the majority. I chose
 XAML/C# for my apps as I’ve done Silverlight/WPF/Win Phone so seemed like
 the logical choice for me (I also happen to like XAML, Blend etc) but it’s
 certainly not a religious thing just a personal choice. Also I happen to
 love C#  I might even try writing my next Windows Store app in
 HTML/js/css just to see what it’s like...

  

 Sent from Windows Mail

  

 *From:* David Kean
 *Sent:* ‎Wednesday‎, ‎17‎ ‎April‎ ‎2013 ‎3‎:‎28‎ ‎PM
 *To:* ozDotNet

  

 That is not true. JavaScript/HTML is nowhere close to .NET in the store.*
 ***

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Katherine Moss
 *Sent:* Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:47 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  

 Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern
 apps (I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on
 a mobile phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where’s the C#
 or VB in them?  And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework
 sounds more like a kill-off rather than an enhancement.  

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Arjang Assadi
 *Sent:* Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  

 Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html
 allow one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework.
 Knowing knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.

  

 On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter bec.usern...@gmail.com wrote:

 .net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging
 back again

  

 On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss 
 katherine.m...@gordon.edu wrote:

 I disagree, still.  WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to
 4.5 of the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN.
 And besides, since Windows 8 modern apps are so

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Ken Schaefer]

AV clients aren’t a blocker for most enterprise client migrations. Usually the 
blocker is the huge cost involved, due to the large number of people involved 
in getting the release out


-  Need to go and gather requirements from many business units

-  Need to go and find out all the differences (e.g. new security 
settings/defaults) between the old platform and the new one, and then get the 
security group (and regulators etc.) to sign off on the new proposed standard

-  Need to do sociability testing of all the base infrastructure 
(including end-point protection, but also VPN clients, monitoring tools, 
deployment tools, asset tracking tools, provisioning tools, procurement tools)

-  Need to do sociability testing of business apps (e.g. a big bank 
will have hundreds of apps)

-  Need to create the necessary builds, scripts etc. and update 
deployment infrastructure to cater for the new platform.

-  Need to validate which hardware models the new build will actually 
work on, and work to retire the rest

-  Need to work out how to migrate existing user data during the 
upgrade process

-  Need to get all the necessary support in place (e.g. floor walkers), 
plus user guides / self-help training etc, negotiate roll out schedules with 
business units blah blah

For really big orgs, with hundreds of thousands of seats, you never really 
finish one upgrade before you’re already planning the next one. The end-point 
protection client is probably the least of the issues.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 17 April 2013 6:05 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

The reality is most Enterprises that have moved to Windows 7 aren't likely to 
rush out again on Windows 8, they'll probably want the dust to settle and lot 
of time the stalling point for migration between Operating Systems isn't just 
SOE red-tape its often because Virus scanners themselves haven't gotten their 
act together to produce a solid build for the latest edition (i'm looking at 
you Symantec) . oh yes despite their being a built-in Virus scanner in 
Windows 8

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[mike smith]

They should have done that to start with, from their position of starting
way from behind, they need every incentive they can get.  Apple and Android
stores are so far ahead its laughable.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Katherine Moss
katherine.m...@gordon.eduwrote:

  Or some day, we won’t be restricted with Windows modern only to the
 store?  Maybe Microsoft will one day do what Apple did for the Mac
 platform, that is, offer the store, but also make installations allowed to
 happen from anywhere if the user chooses; how it should be; they can be
 profit hungry and restrictive on the phones,but not to those users of
 computers, please.  

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
 *Sent:* Tuesday, April 16, 2013 9:16 AM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 I don't disagree with all the points made here, i'm simply saying that's
 the distorted reality in most enterprises so far. It's kind of this
 seasonal shift whereby every 2-3 years some clown on the web goes Ok.. i
 think i have it figured out this time, HTML FTW! and then you're off and
 racing again. I mean the evolution has gone from JS -- DHTML -- AJAX --
 HTML5/JS  i am totally abusing the word evolution there as well :) ..

 Nothing really has changed since the day I cracked open a book on how to
 code JS with Netscape. Sure frameworks have matured along the way and
 people have gotten a lot more disciplined (as much as they can do) in
 regards to how they write JS code and so on. Ultimately though JavaScript
 just hasn't moved an inch since its 2010 and even that was a very meh
 release (
 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/New_in_JavaScript/1.8.5)
 .. i guess its the typical Good ideas go to die in the house Oracle
 moment of Software Zen for us all.

 Now as for Microsoft abandoning ship, I guess the first mistake most make
 is they assume there's a captain at the wheel holding a steady hand on a
 course based on strategy... The last man that had a strategy that had power
 was Steve Sinofsky and before that was Scott Guthrie ... and look what
 happened there :) (although TheGu is nailing it in Azure).

 ** **

 If you speak to most Microsoft Evangelists ask them what their metrics are
 and the answer will be Apps in the AppStore. Then ask them how they
 expect to entice the horde of developers to get the apps into the AppStore?
 ... some will try and get the C#/XAML crowd to adopt but there is only so
 many twitter/flashlight/rpg calculators/bus time table apps you can make
 before you start to loose points for AppStore adoption. The only realistic
 way you can draw in apps from a designer -- developer workflow is if you
 get them to focus on the HTML/IE story as well that workflow seems to work
 well on the web to which my ex colleague coined the slogan make web not
 war..

 ** **

 So if Microsoft are banging their pots and pans about HTML HTML HTML and
 you have some skittish leadership decision makers or even people in the
 cubicles hearing the FUD around HTML..welll it tends to breed the whole
 Sure I guess HTML could work...but damn me if i can get the
 same efficiency and IP cross-over as i had with C#FK U! MSFT!! with
 fists in the air.


 I'lll leave you with a last tid bit of insight that I got once. I once was
 eating lunch in Building 16 and we got onto the discussion of
 Silverlight reaching 90% ubiquity, what then? was my question. The answer
 I got was we're ready to take on HTML... ... as ultimately had we reached
 90% ubiquity with Silverlight and outpaced Flash...we just won 5% of the
 developer marketshare...the 95% is tied up in AJAX/HTML. Now that's a weak
 data point but if that's the mantra internally at the time then who's to
 say it hasn't upgraded, mutated or died? :) as if people believe that at
 the strategy level 

 ** **

 ** **

 :D

 ** **

 ** **


 

 ---
 Regards,
 Scott Barnes
 http://www.riagenic.com

 ** **

 On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:34 AM, Katherine Moss 
 katherine.m...@gordon.edu wrote:

 But my main question and concern is whether learning .net now is worth it
 in this day and age.  I feel like .net is what makes Windows Windows, and
 since most of Microsoft’s feature endeavours like with the Midori project
 coming up in the future and all that being mostly based on .net, I don’t
 see it dying out any time soon. And if you ask me, hTML belongs in a web
 browser and not on the desktop, but that’s just my opinion.  Do you folks
 think it’s worth me continuing to learn C# and to become proficient in it?
 And whoever said incompatibility of web services with other applications,
 what are you talking about?  I know of a .net application (Sueetie) that
 uses WCF for some of it’s functions, and I’ve never heard of any complaints
 of people not being able to access those functions using other web browsers
 and platforms

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Katherine Moss]

But my main question and concern is whether learning .net now is worth it in 
this day and age.  I feel like .net is what makes Windows Windows, and since 
most of Microsoft’s feature endeavours like with the Midori project coming up 
in the future and all that being mostly based on .net, I don’t see it dying out 
any time soon. And if you ask me, hTML belongs in a web browser and not on the 
desktop, but that’s just my opinion.  Do you folks think it’s worth me 
continuing to learn C# and to become proficient in it?  And whoever said 
incompatibility of web services with other applications, what are you talking 
about?  I know of a .net application (Sueetie) that uses WCF for some of it’s 
functions, and I’ve never heard of any complaints of people not being able to 
access those functions using other web browsers and platforms.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:44 AM
To: Greg Low; ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

The way the Web won.

(insert whistling cowboy music)

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Greg Low (GregLow.com) 
g...@greglow.commailto:g...@greglow.com wrote:
I think they are responding to the BYOD movement as well. The days of IT staff 
defining an SOE and forcing everyone to use it are gone, or at least 
disappearing fast. It’s really common to have top-down decisions on this stuff 
now ie: CEOs coming in with their tablets and saying “make it work here”.

I’ve just spent quite a bit of time moving around dozens of software houses, 
and I can tell you that almost everyone has an HTML5/CSS3/JS story. They see it 
as a design choice that isn’t going to disappear again tomorrow, even though 
building apps there is still so much harder than what it should be. It’s seen 
as a hard but safe bet. Most are using additional frameworks like KendoUI.

This sort of change isn’t new though. What does concern me is the loss of 
productivity we’ve had over the years.

We didn’t move to web apps in the first place because users were screaming out 
for slow delivery times, a lousy user interface and session state that’s likely 
to throw away their work without warning. As an example, OWA is a pretty good 
web app but it’s not a patch on Outlook. The initial move to web apps was all 
about IT departments not wanting to deal with deployment issues, because they 
were just too hard sometimes.

I see this as just the next part of this trend. I look at productivity though 
and it could make you cry. I’ve just spent a couple of weeks coding in an MVC4 
project, and while I like it and can see the appeal of it, I can’t help but 
thinking I could have created the same business functionality in a winforms app 
in less than a day. At least it runs all over the place (sort of).

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410tel:%2B61%20419201410 mobile│ 
+61 3 8676 4913tel:%2B61%203%208676%204913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.comhttp://www.sqldownunder.com/

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Corneliu I. Tusnea
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013 3:04 PM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Yes, but by the time .Net developers started to use WebServices everyone else 
moved on to REST as they figured out WS were bloody hard to use, incompatible 
between platforms, heavyweight, hard to upgrade and generally a pain in the *** 
to develop against :)
Now everyone is talking lightweight REST + JSON and we just managed finally to 
get that in the WebApi ...

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Tom Rutter 
therut...@gmail.commailto:therut...@gmail.com wrote:
Wasn't the original intent for .net to be for creating web services?

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Katherine Moss 
katherine.m...@gordon.edumailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu wrote:
Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern apps 
(I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on a mobile 
phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where’s the C# or VB in them? 
 And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework sounds more like a 
kill-off rather than an enhancement.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM

To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html allow 
one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework. Knowing 
knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.

On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter 
bec.usern...@gmail.commailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com wrote:
.net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Corneliu I. Tusnea]

Yes, but by the time .Net developers started to use WebServices everyone
else moved on to REST as they figured out WS were bloody hard to use,
incompatible between platforms, heavyweight, hard to upgrade and generally
a pain in the *** to develop against :)
Now everyone is talking lightweight REST + JSON and we just managed finally
to get that in the WebApi ...


On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Tom Rutter therut...@gmail.com wrote:

 Wasn't the original intent for .net to be for creating web services?


 On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
  wrote:

  Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8
 modern apps (I hate that term when talking about computers and servers,
 belongs on a mobile phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?
 Where’s the C# or VB in them?  And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net
 framework sounds more like a kill-off rather than an enhancement.  

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Arjang Assadi
 *Sent:* Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html
 allow one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework.
 Knowing knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.

 ** **

 On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter bec.usern...@gmail.com wrote:

 .net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging
 back again

 ** **

 On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss 
 katherine.m...@gordon.edu wrote:

 I disagree, still.  WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to
 4.5 of the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN.
 And besides, since Windows 8 modern apps are so limited in their feature
 set compared to what we know currently today, I sort of consider Microsoft
 a little crazy for thinking that everyone’s going to accept less than what
 they have now.  And that’s what scares me about the “Gemini” update for
 Office coming in the future since in order to metro-ize Office completely,
 according to sources of Mary Joe Fowley on All About Microsoft over at
 ZDNet, she says that what people are telling her is that the update will be
 a subset of the current feature set.  And that’s what gets me; what about
 enthusiasts who need more than just a Fisher Price version?  What if we
 want all of the cool features?  What is Microsoft telling us to do, never
 move on because they are interested in depleting stuff?  

 And then in terms of .net being taken over by HTML and JavaScript?  How
 much more 1990’s can you get?  Come on, jees.  I’ll never accept a version
 of Windows or it’s successors without .net installed and living in some
 form.  

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
 *Sent:* Monday, April 08, 2013 11:27 PM


 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  

 Its legacy simply because no investment will be put into it. Windows XP
 is legacy even though I still see people inside a Fortune 500 company right
 now using at as a desktop OS. 

  

 Silverlight/WPF concepts and IP were consolidated and rehydrated into the
 Windows 8 XAML runtime so in a way Legacy would also imply that the vNext
 is the new and the older version are the old (just like Silverlight 2 is
 legacy vs Silverlight 4). The problem is Microsoft didn't understand what
 the notion of a messaging framework is in terms of Marketing and so they
 left that part out creating this whole conversation right now around Legacy
 true/false.

 Its also legacy because of the uncertainty in a lot of
 enterprise/companies around the AS-IS futures they've in turn suspended
 investment or looking to shift to a HTML5 deployment model or are open to
 new ideas around next bets. That's not to say a new project isnt created
 every 5secs in WPF/SL today... it's just not advertised and creates this
 whole is it alive or isnt it question.


 

 ---
 Regards,
 Scott Barnes
 http://www.riagenic.com

  

 On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:55 AM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
 wrote:

 I don’t know why people keep calling stuff like WPF and Win32/64
 applications “old and legacy”.  I still see people using WPF all the time,
 so obviously it’s still got some spirit in it.  

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Arjang Assadi
 *Sent:* Monday, April 08, 2013 2:14 AM


 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  

 RT totally rocks, since I got it haven't put it down, it is just pure
 awesome.

 It is light, app switching and screen splitting are so easy.

  

 Since I got one I cant remember a day I didn't have it in my

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Greg Low (GregLow.com)]

I think they are responding to the BYOD movement as well. The days of IT
staff defining an SOE and forcing everyone to use it are gone, or at least
disappearing fast. It's really common to have top-down decisions on this
stuff now ie: CEOs coming in with their tablets and saying make it work
here.

 

I've just spent quite a bit of time moving around dozens of software houses,
and I can tell you that almost everyone has an HTML5/CSS3/JS story. They see
it as a design choice that isn't going to disappear again tomorrow, even
though building apps there is still so much harder than what it should be.
It's seen as a hard but safe bet. Most are using additional frameworks like
KendoUI.

 

This sort of change isn't new though. What does concern me is the loss of
productivity we've had over the years. 

 

We didn't move to web apps in the first place because users were screaming
out for slow delivery times, a lousy user interface and session state that's
likely to throw away their work without warning. As an example, OWA is a
pretty good web app but it's not a patch on Outlook. The initial move to web
apps was all about IT departments not wanting to deal with deployment
issues, because they were just too hard sometimes.

 

I see this as just the next part of this trend. I look at productivity
though and it could make you cry. I've just spent a couple of weeks coding
in an MVC4 project, and while I like it and can see the appeal of it, I
can't help but thinking I could have created the same business functionality
in a winforms app in less than a day. At least it runs all over the place
(sort of).

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax


SQL Down Under | Web:  http://www.sqldownunder.com/ www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Corneliu I. Tusnea
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013 3:04 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 

Yes, but by the time .Net developers started to use WebServices everyone
else moved on to REST as they figured out WS were bloody hard to use,
incompatible between platforms, heavyweight, hard to upgrade and generally a
pain in the *** to develop against :)

Now everyone is talking lightweight REST + JSON and we just managed finally
to get that in the WebApi ...

 

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Tom Rutter therut...@gmail.com
mailto:therut...@gmail.com  wrote:

Wasn't the original intent for .net to be for creating web services?

 

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu  wrote:

Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern
apps (I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on
a mobile phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where's the C# or
VB in them?  And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework sounds
more like a kill-off rather than an enhancement.  

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
] On Behalf Of Arjang Assadi
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM


To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 

Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html
allow one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework.
Knowing knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.

 

On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter bec.usern...@gmail.com
mailto:bec.usern...@gmail.com  wrote:

.net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging
back again

 

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
mailto:katherine.m...@gordon.edu  wrote:

I disagree, still.  WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to 4.5
of the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN.  And
besides, since Windows 8 modern apps are so limited in their feature set
compared to what we know currently today, I sort of consider Microsoft a
little crazy for thinking that everyone's going to accept less than what
they have now.  And that's what scares me about the Gemini update for
Office coming in the future since in order to metro-ize Office completely,
according to sources of Mary Joe Fowley on All About Microsoft over at
ZDNet, she says that what people are telling her is that the update will be
a subset of the current feature set.  And that's what gets me; what about
enthusiasts who need more than just a Fisher Price version?  What if we want
all of the cool features?  What is Microsoft telling us to do, never move on
because they are interested in depleting stuff?  

And then in terms of .net being taken over by HTML and JavaScript?  How much
more 1990's can you get?  Come on, jees.  I'll never accept a version of
Windows or it's successors without .net installed and living in some form

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Stephen Price]

The way the Web won.

(insert whistling cowboy music)


On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Greg Low (GregLow.com) g...@greglow.comwrote:

 I think they are responding to the BYOD movement as well. The days of IT
 staff defining an SOE and forcing everyone to use it are gone, or at least
 disappearing fast. It’s really common to have top-down decisions on this
 stuff now ie: CEOs coming in with their tablets and saying “make it work
 here”.

 ** **

 I’ve just spent quite a bit of time moving around dozens of software
 houses, and I can tell you that almost everyone has an HTML5/CSS3/JS story.
 They see it as a design choice that isn’t going to disappear again
 tomorrow, even though building apps there is still so much harder than what
 it should be. It’s seen as a hard but safe bet. Most are using additional
 frameworks like KendoUI.

 ** **

 This sort of change isn’t new though. What does concern me is the loss of
 productivity we’ve had over the years. 

 ** **

 We didn’t move to web apps in the first place because users were screaming
 out for slow delivery times, a lousy user interface and session state
 that’s likely to throw away their work without warning. As an example, OWA
 is a pretty good web app but it’s not a patch on Outlook. The initial move
 to web apps was all about IT departments not wanting to deal with
 deployment issues, because they were just too hard sometimes.

 ** **

 I see this as just the next part of this trend. I look at productivity
 though and it could make you cry. I’ve just spent a couple of weeks coding
 in an MVC4 project, and while I like it and can see the appeal of it, I
 can’t help but thinking I could have created the same business
 functionality in a winforms app in less than a day. At least it runs all
 over the place (sort of).

 ** **

 Regards,

 ** **

 Greg

 ** **

 Dr Greg Low

 ** **

 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax
 

 SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Corneliu I. Tusnea
 *Sent:* Friday, 12 April 2013 3:04 PM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 Yes, but by the time .Net developers started to use WebServices everyone
 else moved on to REST as they figured out WS were bloody hard to use,
 incompatible between platforms, heavyweight, hard to upgrade and generally
 a pain in the *** to develop against :)

 Now everyone is talking lightweight REST + JSON and we just managed
 finally to get that in the WebApi ...

 ** **

 On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Tom Rutter therut...@gmail.com wrote:**
 **

 Wasn't the original intent for .net to be for creating web services?

 ** **

 On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 3:47 AM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
 wrote:

 Then why are the  majority rather than the  minority of windows 8 modern
 apps (I hate that term when talking about computers and servers, belongs on
 a mobile phone), nearly all written in pure HTML5 and JS?  Where’s the C#
 or VB in them?  And touting HTML5 and JS more than the .net framework
 sounds more like a kill-off rather than an enhancement.  

  

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Arjang Assadi
 *Sent:* Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:12 AM


 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

  

 Not taken over but augmented with, .net still reigns supreme, js and html
 allow one to rich the poorest of places in terms of OS and framework.
 Knowing knockout, backbone etc. is a must for any .net programmer.

  

 On 10 April 2013 19:15, Bec Carter bec.usern...@gmail.com wrote:

 .net taken over by html and js? Haha looks like the pendulum is swinging
 back again

  

 On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Katherine Moss katherine.m...@gordon.edu
 wrote:

 I disagree, still.  WPF was expanded for instance, from versions 4.0 to
 4.5 of the .net framework significantly from what I can tell from MSDN.
 And besides, since Windows 8 modern apps are so limited in their feature
 set compared to what we know currently today, I sort of consider Microsoft
 a little crazy for thinking that everyone’s going to accept less than what
 they have now.  And that’s what scares me about the “Gemini” update for
 Office coming in the future since in order to metro-ize Office completely,
 according to sources of Mary Joe Fowley on All About Microsoft over at
 ZDNet, she says that what people are telling her is that the update will be
 a subset of the current feature set.  And that’s what gets me; what about
 enthusiasts who need more than just a Fisher Price version?  What if we
 want all of the cool features?  What is Microsoft telling us to do, never
 move on because they are interested in depleting stuff?  

 And then in terms of .net being taken

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Arjang Assadi]

RT totally rocks, since I got it haven't put it down, it is just pure
awesome.
It is light, app switching and screen splitting are so easy.

Since I got one I cant remember a day I didn't have it in my hand, most of
times without the cover.

I would like a Pro for alternative set of reasons, but RT will still be
lighter.

Regards

Arjang




On 2 April 2013 10:49, James Chapman-Smith ja...@chapman-smith.com wrote:

  Hi Folks,

 ** **

 I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or
 maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince
 myself that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.***
 *

 ** **

 What are everyone's thoughts?

 ** **

 Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all?
 How much memory should I get?

 ** **

 I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.

 ** **

 Cheers.

 ** **

 James.

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Ken Schaefer]

Do you have any requirements or wants from the device that you're buying?

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of James Chapman-Smith
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:50 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Hi Folks,

I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or 
maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince myself 
that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.

What are everyone's thoughts?

Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all? How 
much memory should I get?

I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.

Cheers.

James.

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Nathan Chere]

Pointless question without saying what you want to do with it.

For my money there's no reason to get a Surface RT at all and very few reasons 
for a Surface Pro.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of James Chapman-Smith
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:50 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Hi Folks,

I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or 
maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince myself 
that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.

What are everyone's thoughts?

Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all? How 
much memory should I get?

I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.

Cheers.

James.


Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report 
this email as spam.


This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[jasion4]

Hi


I got an RT when they came out, been mostly happy with it, good battery life. I 
got it mainly so I had an RT device to test my apps on + to use as a consumer 
device and for those uses I can’t complain.


I also have touch cover, if your gonna do lots of typing then you might want to 
consider type cover instead.


Jason



Sent from Windows Mail



From: Nathan Chere
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎2‎ ‎April‎ ‎2013 ‎7‎:‎55‎ ‎AM
To: ozDotNet



Pointless question without saying what you want to do with it.

 

For my money there’s no reason to get a Surface RT at all and very few reasons 
for a Surface Pro.

 



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of James Chapman-Smith
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:50 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 

Hi Folks,

 

I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or 
maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince myself 
that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.

 

What are everyone's thoughts?

 

Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all? How 
much memory should I get?

 

I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.

 

Cheers.

 

James.

 

Click here to report this email as spam.



This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[James Chapman-Smith]

I want a fairly portable device that is easier to lug around than my current 
laptop. I expect to get a light-weight device that I can remote into my 
workstations. I anticipate replacing my single laptop with two desktop machines 
- one for work and one for home - and the Surface then becomes my traveling 
device and something that I can place beside the bed to watch TV at night or 
use on the couch to check emails, update facebook, etc. I'll also use the 
Surface as a note taking device at seminars/conferences.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:26
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Do you have any requirements or wants from the device that you're buying?

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of James Chapman-Smith
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:50 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Hi Folks,

I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or 
maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince myself 
that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.

What are everyone's thoughts?

Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all? How 
much memory should I get?

I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.

Cheers.

James.

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Tony Wright]

well RT does have a Remote Desktop App I believe...

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:38 AM, James Chapman-Smith 
ja...@chapman-smith.com wrote:

  I want a fairly portable device that is easier to lug around than my
 current laptop. I expect to get a light-weight device that I can remote
 into my workstations. I anticipate replacing my single laptop with two
 desktop machines – one for work and one for home – and the Surface then
 becomes my traveling device and something that I can place beside the bed
 to watch TV at night or use on the couch to check emails, update facebook,
 etc. I'll also use the Surface as a note taking device at
 seminars/conferences.

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer
 *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:26
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 Do you have any requirements or wants from the device that you’re buying?*
 ***

 ** **

 Cheers

 Ken

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *James Chapman-Smith
 *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:50 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 Hi Folks,

 ** **

 I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or
 maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince
 myself that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.***
 *

 ** **

 What are everyone's thoughts?

 ** **

 Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all?
 How much memory should I get?

 ** **

 I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.

 ** **

 Cheers.

 ** **

 James.

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Tony Wright]

actually that said, you pay for what you get. The WinRT device is quite
limiting, and its only when you hit those limitations that you will feel
the regret. If you want full flexibility, then you would be better off with
the Pro device.

Reminds me of a quote:
It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay
too much, you lose a little money — that is all. When you pay too little,
you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable
of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance
prohibits paying a little and getting a lot — it can't be done. If you deal
with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run,
and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:38 AM, James Chapman-Smith 
ja...@chapman-smith.com wrote:

  I want a fairly portable device that is easier to lug around than my
 current laptop. I expect to get a light-weight device that I can remote
 into my workstations. I anticipate replacing my single laptop with two
 desktop machines – one for work and one for home – and the Surface then
 becomes my traveling device and something that I can place beside the bed
 to watch TV at night or use on the couch to check emails, update facebook,
 etc. I'll also use the Surface as a note taking device at
 seminars/conferences.

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer
 *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:26
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 Do you have any requirements or wants from the device that you’re buying?*
 ***

 ** **

 Cheers

 Ken

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *James Chapman-Smith
 *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:50 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

 ** **

 Hi Folks,

 ** **

 I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or
 maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince
 myself that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.***
 *

 ** **

 What are everyone's thoughts?

 ** **

 Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all?
 How much memory should I get?

 ** **

 I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.

 ** **

 Cheers.

 ** **

 James.

Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Stephen Price]

What ever you get will have shortfalls. It will also be out of date within
a year. (or less). That said, as others have indicated, you need to
identify (if not to us, then to yourself) what you need it for.
No device does it all, so you need to choose based on your personal
requirements. Battery life? Surface RT would do well. Does it have to run
any Windows apps or just Windows store apps. (That would decide for you).
Where do you use it? I rarely use a laptop without it plugged into power,
so battery life is not an issue for me (with a laptop) but with a tablet I
want the thing to still have a charge if I've not used it for a day or two.
I have an Asus Vivo Tab, and a Surface RT. To be honest, as impressive as
the surface is, I feel I like the Vivo more. It's laptop feel is more
convenient if you want to use it on your lap. The keyboard is more usable
and has a battery in it to extend the life of the battery in the screen. It
can detach and be a tablet. (which is way lighter than the surface when it
has its keyboard detatched... in fact even with its keyboard they are about
the same weight).
I'm sure there are other options around so have a look and try some out.

good luck :)


On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:49 AM, James Chapman-Smith ja...@chapman-smith.com
 wrote:

  Hi Folks,

 ** **

 I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or
 maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince
 myself that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.***
 *

 ** **

 What are everyone's thoughts?

 ** **

 Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all?
 How much memory should I get?

 ** **

 I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.

 ** **

 Cheers.

 ** **

 James.

RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

[Williams, Thomas]

Wow Tony - great quote!

Thomas

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013 12:04 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

actually that said, you pay for what you get. The WinRT device is quite 
limiting, and its only when you hit those limitations that you will feel the 
regret. If you want full flexibility, then you would be better off with the Pro 
device.

Reminds me of a quote:
It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too 
much, you lose a little money - that is all. When you pay too little, you 
sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing 
the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits 
paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the 
lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do 
that you will have enough to pay for something better.
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:38 AM, James Chapman-Smith 
ja...@chapman-smith.commailto:ja...@chapman-smith.com wrote:
I want a fairly portable device that is easier to lug around than my current 
laptop. I expect to get a light-weight device that I can remote into my 
workstations. I anticipate replacing my single laptop with two desktop machines 
- one for work and one for home - and the Surface then becomes my traveling 
device and something that I can place beside the bed to watch TV at night or 
use on the couch to check emails, update facebook, etc. I'll also use the 
Surface as a note taking device at seminars/conferences.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:26
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Do you have any requirements or wants from the device that you're buying?

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of James Chapman-Smith
Sent: Tuesday, 2 April 2013 10:50 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] Surface RT or Surface Pro?

Hi Folks,

I'm thinking about getting myself either a Surface RT or a Surface Pro (or 
maybe some other alternative). Every time I think about it I convince myself 
that one is better than the other but then the next time I flip.

What are everyone's thoughts?

Should I get a Surface RT or a Surface Pro? Should I get a surface at all? How 
much memory should I get?

I thank you for your well thought out ideas in advance.

Cheers.

James.



Peninsula Health - Metropolitan Health Service of the Year 2007  2009