Re: vb.net
Personally i would turn down such offer - actually wouldnt even be applying in the first place. pretty good market out there with JS and C# .NET, try looking else where if you can if you just recently graduated, your modern mindset would have a hard time dealing with VB and the legacy system. you will likely lose passion just my 2 cents On 13 October 2015 at 12:47, Tom P wrote: > Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. > Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would > hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a > few years. > > Thanks > Tom >
RE: vb.net
Really ? What ‘legacy’ things are you referring to ? From: Nelson Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:52 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: vb.net Personally i would turn down such offer - actually wouldnt even be applying in the first place. pretty good market out there with JS and C# .NET, try looking else where if you can if you just recently graduated, your modern mindset would have a hard time dealing with VB and the legacy system. you will likely lose passion just my 2 cents On 13 October 2015 at 12:47, Tom P wrote: Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a few years. Thanks Tom
RE: vb.net
Didn’t he die at Trafalgar? From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 1:29 PM To: Nelson; ozDotNet Subject: RE: vb.net Really ? What ‘legacy’ things are you referring to ? From: Nelson Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:52 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: vb.net Personally i would turn down such offer - actually wouldnt even be applying in the first place. pretty good market out there with JS and C# .NET, try looking else where if you can if you just recently graduated, your modern mindset would have a hard time dealing with VB and the legacy system. you will likely lose passion just my 2 cents On 13 October 2015 at 12:47, Tom P wrote: Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a few years. Thanks Tom
RE: vb.net
This usually a great rant starter for a Friday conversation. Realistically though Vb.net is much a muchness with c# on .net. Definitely the best language if doing integrated xml. With late binding stuff it has some advantages with better conversions, but also disadvantages such as wider scope. Realistically the biggest disadvantage of vb.net is if you want to integrate some large source code from open licence stuff... usually more is available in c#. From: Tom P Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:48 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: vb.net Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a few years. Thanks Tom
Re: vb.net
things that are old enough to still be running vb? and i have a feeling people who still stick to vb are fairly stubborn. i know im stereotyping here sorry if i offended anyone but that was my experience On Tuesday, 13 October 2015, Bill McCarthy wrote: > Really ? What ‘legacy’ things are you referring to ? > > > > > > > > > > > *From: *Nelson > *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:52 PM > *To: *ozDotNet > *Subject: *Re: vb.net > > > > > > Personally i would turn down such offer - actually wouldnt even be > applying in the first place. > > > > pretty good market out there with JS and C# .NET, try looking else where > if you can > > > > > > > > if you just recently graduated, your modern mindset would have a hard time > dealing with VB and the legacy system. > > > > you will likely lose passion > > > > > > just my 2 cents > > > > > > On 13 October 2015 at 12:47, Tom P > wrote: > > Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. > Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would > hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a > few years. > > > Thanks > > Tom > > > > > > >
Re: vb.net
I started my .net journey with vb.net, but these days I code C# unless I have to use vb for working with a legacy system. I agree with Bill - there really isn't much difference between using the languages in .net. In fact, knowing my way around the .net framework (from having used it with vb) made the transition to c# much easier. BUT, outside the .net world, I have found my knowledge of C# has helped me in reading (and learning) other languages - eg java, js, ruby. These all have a syntax which is far more like c# than vb. So, if you can only use one language, for me it would be C# - but there is no reason at all that you should be confined to one language. If you are interested in the job, than go for it. Whatever happens, you will learn. Any job provides an opportunity to practice our craft and become better programmers. Plus, you can do projects after hours in whatever language you want :) Cheers Dave On 13 October 2015 at 13:33, Bill McCarthy wrote: > > > > > This usually a great rant starter for a Friday conversation. Realistically > though Vb.net is much a muchness with c# on .net. Definitely the best > language if doing integrated xml. With late binding stuff it has some > advantages with better conversions, but also disadvantages such as wider > scope. > > > > Realistically the biggest disadvantage of vb.net is if you want to > integrate some large source code from open licence stuff... usually more is > available in c#. > > > > > > > > > *From: *Tom P > *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:48 PM > *To: *ozDotNet > *Subject: *vb.net > > > > > > Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. > Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would > hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a > few years. > > > Thanks > > Tom > > > > >
Re: vb.net
I tend to agree with you. If there are two languages (C# & VB.NET) that are 99% functionally equivalent but 90% of people use one (C#) then to me it is a no brainer to use C# are well. I can't really think of any reason why someone would choose VB.NET for a new project over C# where the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Nelson wrote: > things that are old enough to still be running vb? > > and i have a feeling people who still stick to vb are fairly stubborn. > > i know im stereotyping here sorry if i offended anyone but that was my > experience > > > On Tuesday, 13 October 2015, Bill McCarthy < > bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au> wrote: > >> Really ? What ‘legacy’ things are you referring to ? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *Nelson >> *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:52 PM >> *To: *ozDotNet >> *Subject: *Re: vb.net >> >> >> >> >> >> Personally i would turn down such offer - actually wouldnt even be >> applying in the first place. >> >> >> >> pretty good market out there with JS and C# .NET, try looking else where >> if you can >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> if you just recently graduated, your modern mindset would have a hard >> time dealing with VB and the legacy system. >> >> >> >> you will likely lose passion >> >> >> >> >> >> just my 2 cents >> >> >> >> >> >> On 13 October 2015 at 12:47, Tom P wrote: >> >> Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. >> Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would >> hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a >> few years. >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Tom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
RE: vb.net
Tom said ‘vb.net’. From: Nelson Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 1:35 PM To: Bill McCarthy Cc: Nelson;ozDotNet Subject: Re: vb.net things that are old enough to still be running vb? and i have a feeling people who still stick to vb are fairly stubborn. i know im stereotyping here sorry if i offended anyone but that was my experience On Tuesday, 13 October 2015, Bill McCarthy wrote: Really ? What ‘legacy’ things are you referring to ? From: Nelson Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:52 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: vb.net Personally i would turn down such offer - actually wouldnt even be applying in the first place. pretty good market out there with JS and C# .NET, try looking else where if you can if you just recently graduated, your modern mindset would have a hard time dealing with VB and the legacy system. you will likely lose passion just my 2 cents On 13 October 2015 at 12:47, Tom P wrote: Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a few years. Thanks Tom
RE: vb.net
Although there’s lots of c ‘style’ languages, the devil is always in the details/differences. I find it hard to switch between c# and js and not forget/mess up. With vb.net and js not so much a problem. The same use to be said for vb and vbscript in days of asp From: David Burstin Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 1:41 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: vb.net I started my .net journey with vb.net, but these days I code C# unless I have to use vb for working with a legacy system. I agree with Bill - there really isn't much difference between using the languages in .net. In fact, knowing my way around the .net framework (from having used it with vb) made the transition to c# much easier. BUT, outside the .net world, I have found my knowledge of C# has helped me in reading (and learning) other languages - eg java, js, ruby. These all have a syntax which is far more like c# than vb. So, if you can only use one language, for me it would be C# - but there is no reason at all that you should be confined to one language. If you are interested in the job, than go for it. Whatever happens, you will learn. Any job provides an opportunity to practice our craft and become better programmers. Plus, you can do projects after hours in whatever language you want :) Cheers Dave On 13 October 2015 at 13:33, Bill McCarthy wrote: This usually a great rant starter for a Friday conversation. Realistically though Vb.net is much a muchness with c# on .net. Definitely the best language if doing integrated xml. With late binding stuff it has some advantages with better conversions, but also disadvantages such as wider scope. Realistically the biggest disadvantage of vb.net is if you want to integrate some large source code from open licence stuff... usually more is available in c#. From: Tom P Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:48 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: vb.net Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a few years. Thanks Tom
Re: vb.net
My concern here (regarding the job offer) is not about the language use. i cannot stress enough how a pain in the a** it can be when working with seniors who are reluctant to change and adopt newer better technology. And as a Junior in the team you are basically screwed, especially you started your training with all the modern tech and tools. I had a hard time convincing my senior to switch to ASP.NET MVC from WebForms. although that turn out may not be the best idea - he still code like WebForms way in MVC anyway he still thinks WebForms is superior and can do stuff MVC cant do till this date unfortunately you can also imagine how your ideas got banned just because you are the junior and he play the experience game with you. even though that experience translate to sticking to 10-20 years old libraries when there are modern, much more popular alternatives (the best example i think of right now is that he is still using his copy of a 1997 alpha version of date.js library - probably thats the time he started learning js?) I'm not saying VB.NET people are all stubborn and old. but the probability of having to work with a**h*** is just much higher than i like. After all, it won't be a cultural fit for me personally as i'm a state-of-the-art person and would love to work with new technology On 13 October 2015 at 13:53, Bill McCarthy wrote: > > > Although there’s lots of c ‘style’ languages, the devil is always in the > details/differences. I find it hard to switch between c# and js and not > forget/mess up. With vb.net and js not so much a problem. > > > > The same use to be said for vb and vbscript in days of asp > > > > > > > > > *From: *David Burstin > *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 1:41 PM > *To: *ozDotNet > *Subject: *Re: vb.net > > > > > > I started my .net journey with vb.net, but these days I code C# unless I > have to use vb for working with a legacy system. > > > > I agree with Bill - there really isn't much difference between using the > languages in .net. In fact, knowing my way around the .net framework (from > having used it with vb) made the transition to c# much easier. > > > > BUT, outside the .net world, I have found my knowledge of C# has helped me > in reading (and learning) other languages - eg java, js, ruby. These all > have a syntax which is far more like c# than vb. > > > > So, if you can only use one language, for me it would be C# - but there is > no reason at all that you should be confined to one language. If you are > interested in the job, than go for it. Whatever happens, you will learn. > Any job provides an opportunity to practice our craft and become better > programmers. Plus, you can do projects after hours in whatever language you > want :) > > > > Cheers > > Dave > > > > On 13 October 2015 at 13:33, Bill McCarthy < > bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > This usually a great rant starter for a Friday conversation. Realistically > though Vb.net is much a muchness with c# on .net. Definitely the best > language if doing integrated xml. With late binding stuff it has some > advantages with better conversions, but also disadvantages such as wider > scope. > > > > Realistically the biggest disadvantage of vb.net is if you want to > integrate some large source code from open licence stuff... usually more is > available in c#. > > > > > > > > > *From: *Tom P > *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:48 PM > *To: *ozDotNet > *Subject: *vb.net > > > > > > Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. > Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would > hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a > few years. > > > Thanks > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: vb.net
Definitely agree Bill. For some people (me), the similarities are helpful. For others (Bill), it is the differences that prevent confusion. Tom, see where you sit in relation to similarities / differences - self-awareness will definitely help your decision. On 13 October 2015 at 13:53, Bill McCarthy wrote: > > > Although there’s lots of c ‘style’ languages, the devil is always in the > details/differences. I find it hard to switch between c# and js and not > forget/mess up. With vb.net and js not so much a problem. > > > > The same use to be said for vb and vbscript in days of asp > > > > > > > > > *From: *David Burstin > *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 1:41 PM > *To: *ozDotNet > *Subject: *Re: vb.net > > > > > > I started my .net journey with vb.net, but these days I code C# unless I > have to use vb for working with a legacy system. > > > > I agree with Bill - there really isn't much difference between using the > languages in .net. In fact, knowing my way around the .net framework (from > having used it with vb) made the transition to c# much easier. > > > > BUT, outside the .net world, I have found my knowledge of C# has helped me > in reading (and learning) other languages - eg java, js, ruby. These all > have a syntax which is far more like c# than vb. > > > > So, if you can only use one language, for me it would be C# - but there is > no reason at all that you should be confined to one language. If you are > interested in the job, than go for it. Whatever happens, you will learn. > Any job provides an opportunity to practice our craft and become better > programmers. Plus, you can do projects after hours in whatever language you > want :) > > > > Cheers > > Dave > > > > On 13 October 2015 at 13:33, Bill McCarthy < > bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > This usually a great rant starter for a Friday conversation. Realistically > though Vb.net is much a muchness with c# on .net. Definitely the best > language if doing integrated xml. With late binding stuff it has some > advantages with better conversions, but also disadvantages such as wider > scope. > > > > Realistically the biggest disadvantage of vb.net is if you want to > integrate some large source code from open licence stuff... usually more is > available in c#. > > > > > > > > > *From: *Tom P > *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:48 PM > *To: *ozDotNet > *Subject: *vb.net > > > > > > Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. > Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would > hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a > few years. > > > Thanks > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: vb.net
I think the real message here is - forget the language, just don't work for Nelson's senior. Stubborn a**h are not confined to any particular language. :) On 13 October 2015 at 14:14, Nelson wrote: > My concern here (regarding the job offer) is not about the language use. > > i cannot stress enough how a pain in the a** it can be when working with > seniors who are reluctant to change and adopt newer better technology. > > And as a Junior in the team you are basically screwed, especially you > started your training with all the modern tech and tools. > > > > I had a hard time convincing my senior to switch to ASP.NET MVC from > WebForms. > > although that turn out may not be the best idea - he still code like > WebForms way in MVC > > anyway he still thinks WebForms is superior and can do stuff MVC cant do > till this date unfortunately > > > > you can also imagine how your ideas got banned just because you are the > junior and he play the experience game with you. > > even though that experience translate to sticking to 10-20 years old > libraries when there are modern, much more popular alternatives > > (the best example i think of right now is that he is still using his copy > of a 1997 alpha version of date.js library - probably thats the time he > started learning js?) > > > > I'm not saying VB.NET people are all stubborn and old. but the > probability of having to work with a**h*** is just much higher than i like. > > After all, it won't be a cultural fit for me personally as i'm a > state-of-the-art person and would love to work with new technology > > > On 13 October 2015 at 13:53, Bill McCarthy < > bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au> wrote: > >> >> >> Although there’s lots of c ‘style’ languages, the devil is always in the >> details/differences. I find it hard to switch between c# and js and not >> forget/mess up. With vb.net and js not so much a problem. >> >> >> >> The same use to be said for vb and vbscript in days of asp >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *David Burstin >> *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 1:41 PM >> *To: *ozDotNet >> *Subject: *Re: vb.net >> >> >> >> >> >> I started my .net journey with vb.net, but these days I code C# unless I >> have to use vb for working with a legacy system. >> >> >> >> I agree with Bill - there really isn't much difference between using the >> languages in .net. In fact, knowing my way around the .net framework (from >> having used it with vb) made the transition to c# much easier. >> >> >> >> BUT, outside the .net world, I have found my knowledge of C# has helped >> me in reading (and learning) other languages - eg java, js, ruby. These all >> have a syntax which is far more like c# than vb. >> >> >> >> So, if you can only use one language, for me it would be C# - but there >> is no reason at all that you should be confined to one language. If you are >> interested in the job, than go for it. Whatever happens, you will learn. >> Any job provides an opportunity to practice our craft and become better >> programmers. Plus, you can do projects after hours in whatever language you >> want :) >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> On 13 October 2015 at 13:33, Bill McCarthy < >> bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> This usually a great rant starter for a Friday conversation. >> Realistically though Vb.net is much a muchness with c# on .net. Definitely >> the best language if doing integrated xml. With late binding stuff it has >> some advantages with better conversions, but also disadvantages such as >> wider scope. >> >> >> >> Realistically the biggest disadvantage of vb.net is if you want to >> integrate some large source code from open licence stuff... usually more is >> available in c#. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *Tom P >> *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:48 PM >> *To: *ozDotNet >> *Subject: *vb.net >> >> >> >> >> >> Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. >> Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would >> hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a >> few years. >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Tom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >
Re: vb.net
Thanks guys some really good advice here. I will give it a shot with positivity. Thanks Tom On Tuesday, 13 October 2015, David Burstin wrote: > I think the real message here is - forget the language, just don't work > for Nelson's senior. Stubborn a**h are not confined to any particular > language. :) > > On 13 October 2015 at 14:14, Nelson > wrote: > >> My concern here (regarding the job offer) is not about the language use. >> >> i cannot stress enough how a pain in the a** it can be when working with >> seniors who are reluctant to change and adopt newer better technology. >> >> And as a Junior in the team you are basically screwed, especially you >> started your training with all the modern tech and tools. >> >> >> >> I had a hard time convincing my senior to switch to ASP.NET MVC from >> WebForms. >> >> although that turn out may not be the best idea - he still code like >> WebForms way in MVC >> >> anyway he still thinks WebForms is superior and can do stuff MVC cant do >> till this date unfortunately >> >> >> >> you can also imagine how your ideas got banned just because you are the >> junior and he play the experience game with you. >> >> even though that experience translate to sticking to 10-20 years old >> libraries when there are modern, much more popular alternatives >> >> (the best example i think of right now is that he is still using his copy >> of a 1997 alpha version of date.js library - probably thats the time he >> started learning js?) >> >> >> >> I'm not saying VB.NET people are all stubborn and old. but the >> probability of having to work with a**h*** is just much higher than i like. >> >> After all, it won't be a cultural fit for me personally as i'm a >> state-of-the-art person and would love to work with new technology >> >> >> On 13 October 2015 at 13:53, Bill McCarthy < >> bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Although there’s lots of c ‘style’ languages, the devil is always in the >>> details/differences. I find it hard to switch between c# and js and not >>> forget/mess up. With vb.net and js not so much a problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> The same use to be said for vb and vbscript in days of asp >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: *David Burstin >>> *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 1:41 PM >>> *To: *ozDotNet >>> *Subject: *Re: vb.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I started my .net journey with vb.net, but these days I code C# unless >>> I have to use vb for working with a legacy system. >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree with Bill - there really isn't much difference between using the >>> languages in .net. In fact, knowing my way around the .net framework (from >>> having used it with vb) made the transition to c# much easier. >>> >>> >>> >>> BUT, outside the .net world, I have found my knowledge of C# has helped >>> me in reading (and learning) other languages - eg java, js, ruby. These all >>> have a syntax which is far more like c# than vb. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, if you can only use one language, for me it would be C# - but there >>> is no reason at all that you should be confined to one language. If you are >>> interested in the job, than go for it. Whatever happens, you will learn. >>> Any job provides an opportunity to practice our craft and become better >>> programmers. Plus, you can do projects after hours in whatever language you >>> want :) >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> On 13 October 2015 at 13:33, Bill McCarthy < >>> bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This usually a great rant starter for a Friday conversation. >>> Realistically though Vb.net is much a muchness with c# on .net. Definitely >>> the best language if doing integrated xml. With late binding stuff it has >>> some advantages with better conversions, but also disadvantages such as >>> wider scope. >>> >>> >>> >>> Realistically the biggest disadvantage of vb.net is if you want to >>> integrate some large source code from open licence stuff... usually more is >>> available in c#. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: *Tom P >>> *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:48 PM >>> *To: *ozDotNet >>> *Subject: *vb.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. >>> Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would >>> hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a >>> few years. >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > -- Thanks Tom
RE: vb.net
There’s also the new bling bling oh look shiny (squirrel) approach, versus the existing and established client base and app approach. Pumping out new apps using the latest buts just shows you’re good at playing with new toys. Improving, expanding, and working with real user bases, develops problem solving and people skills. I’ve worked on apps where we’ve moved existing clients to web based solutions and had to deal with client expectations to have the same keyboard shortcuts, wanting similar screens to their old vt100 emulation screens (well nit that bad, but not far from it). Some do view that as a pain, but clients who have to pay for the changes are the ones who find it most painful if the change is just for change sake. Learning how to work effectively with existing clients and codebase will develop real skills you can’t get elsewhere. If you want to code with the latest bits pushing out only new stuff, you can do that with the internet and your spare time 😏 Btw: reporting services custom code... just sating😉 From: David Burstin Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 2:19 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: vb.net I think the real message here is - forget the language, just don't work for Nelson's senior. Stubborn a**h are not confined to any particular language. :) On 13 October 2015 at 14:14, Nelson wrote: My concern here (regarding the job offer) is not about the language use. i cannot stress enough how a pain in the a** it can be when working with seniors who are reluctant to change and adopt newer better technology. And as a Junior in the team you are basically screwed, especially you started your training with all the modern tech and tools. I had a hard time convincing my senior to switch to ASP.NET MVC from WebForms. although that turn out may not be the best idea - he still code like WebForms way in MVC anyway he still thinks WebForms is superior and can do stuff MVC cant do till this date unfortunately you can also imagine how your ideas got banned just because you are the junior and he play the experience game with you. even though that experience translate to sticking to 10-20 years old libraries when there are modern, much more popular alternatives (the best example i think of right now is that he is still using his copy of a 1997 alpha version of date.js library - probably thats the time he started learning js?) I'm not saying VB.NET people are all stubborn and old. but the probability of having to work with a**h*** is just much higher than i like. After all, it won't be a cultural fit for me personally as i'm a state-of-the-art person and would love to work with new technology On 13 October 2015 at 13:53, Bill McCarthy wrote: Although there’s lots of c ‘style’ languages, the devil is always in the details/differences. I find it hard to switch between c# and js and not forget/mess up. With vb.net and js not so much a problem. The same use to be said for vb and vbscript in days of asp From: David Burstin Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 1:41 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: vb.net I started my .net journey with vb.net, but these days I code C# unless I have to use vb for working with a legacy system. I agree with Bill - there really isn't much difference between using the languages in .net. In fact, knowing my way around the .net framework (from having used it with vb) made the transition to c# much easier. BUT, outside the .net world, I have found my knowledge of C# has helped me in reading (and learning) other languages - eg java, js, ruby. These all have a syntax which is far more like c# than vb. So, if you can only use one language, for me it would be C# - but there is no reason at all that you should be confined to one language. If you are interested in the job, than go for it. Whatever happens, you will learn. Any job provides an opportunity to practice our craft and become better programmers. Plus, you can do projects after hours in whatever language you want :) Cheers Dave On 13 October 2015 at 13:33, Bill McCarthy wrote: This usually a great rant starter for a Friday conversation. Realistically though Vb.net is much a muchness with c# on .net. Definitely the best language if doing integrated xml. With late binding stuff it has some advantages with better conversions, but also disadvantages such as wider scope. Realistically the biggest disadvantage of vb.net is if you want to integrate some large source code from open licence stuff... usually more is available in c#. From: Tom P Sent: Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:48 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: vb.net Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a few years. Thanks Tom
Re: vb.net
C++ is the Only Way. And get off my v-lawn! :) On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 2:19 PM, David Burstin wrote: > I think the real message here is - forget the language, just don't work > for Nelson's senior. Stubborn a**h are not confined to any particular > language. :) > > On 13 October 2015 at 14:14, Nelson wrote: > >> My concern here (regarding the job offer) is not about the language use. >> >> i cannot stress enough how a pain in the a** it can be when working with >> seniors who are reluctant to change and adopt newer better technology. >> >> And as a Junior in the team you are basically screwed, especially you >> started your training with all the modern tech and tools. >> >> >> >> I had a hard time convincing my senior to switch to ASP.NET MVC from >> WebForms. >> >> although that turn out may not be the best idea - he still code like >> WebForms way in MVC >> >> anyway he still thinks WebForms is superior and can do stuff MVC cant do >> till this date unfortunately >> >> >> >> you can also imagine how your ideas got banned just because you are the >> junior and he play the experience game with you. >> >> even though that experience translate to sticking to 10-20 years old >> libraries when there are modern, much more popular alternatives >> >> (the best example i think of right now is that he is still using his copy >> of a 1997 alpha version of date.js library - probably thats the time he >> started learning js?) >> >> >> >> I'm not saying VB.NET people are all stubborn and old. but the >> probability of having to work with a**h*** is just much higher than i like. >> >> After all, it won't be a cultural fit for me personally as i'm a >> state-of-the-art person and would love to work with new technology >> >> >> On 13 October 2015 at 13:53, Bill McCarthy < >> bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Although there’s lots of c ‘style’ languages, the devil is always in the >>> details/differences. I find it hard to switch between c# and js and not >>> forget/mess up. With vb.net and js not so much a problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> The same use to be said for vb and vbscript in days of asp >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: *David Burstin >>> *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 1:41 PM >>> *To: *ozDotNet >>> *Subject: *Re: vb.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I started my .net journey with vb.net, but these days I code C# unless >>> I have to use vb for working with a legacy system. >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree with Bill - there really isn't much difference between using the >>> languages in .net. In fact, knowing my way around the .net framework (from >>> having used it with vb) made the transition to c# much easier. >>> >>> >>> >>> BUT, outside the .net world, I have found my knowledge of C# has helped >>> me in reading (and learning) other languages - eg java, js, ruby. These all >>> have a syntax which is far more like c# than vb. >>> >>> >>> >>> So, if you can only use one language, for me it would be C# - but there >>> is no reason at all that you should be confined to one language. If you are >>> interested in the job, than go for it. Whatever happens, you will learn. >>> Any job provides an opportunity to practice our craft and become better >>> programmers. Plus, you can do projects after hours in whatever language you >>> want :) >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>> On 13 October 2015 at 13:33, Bill McCarthy < >>> bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This usually a great rant starter for a Friday conversation. >>> Realistically though Vb.net is much a muchness with c# on .net. Definitely >>> the best language if doing integrated xml. With late binding stuff it has >>> some advantages with better conversions, but also disadvantages such as >>> wider scope. >>> >>> >>> >>> Realistically the biggest disadvantage of vb.net is if you want to >>> integrate some large source code from open licence stuff... usually more is >>> available in c#. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: *Tom P >>> *Sent: *Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:48 PM >>> *To: *ozDotNet >>> *Subject: *vb.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Guys I've been offered a junior dev job but they insist on vb.net only. >>> Does anyone know what is happening with vb.net going forward? I would >>> hate to get stuck into the vb.net world and have it killed off within a >>> few years. >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
Re: vb.net question
End is very bad, replace it with application.exit. End will leave threads / resources active/open. Davy Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -Original Message- From: "Peter Maddin" Sender: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 16:59:13 To: 'ozDotNet' Reply-To: ozDotNet Subject: vb.net question I do not code in vb.net but have been given vb.net source to look at. I have noticed that I have an event handler coded as Private Sub _testCatalogue_ViewerNewVersion(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles _testCatalogue.ViewerNewVersion End End Sub When it hits the End statement the application closes. I am expecting that, but I have tried to find out where this 'End' is documented. Is there a list of vb.net commands that specifies what this does. I would have thought that closing the main form would close the application, but this "End" seems to do this ok. Regards Peter Maddin Applications Development Officer PathWest Laboratory Medicine WA Phone : +618 6396 4285 (Monday, Wednesday,Friday) Phone : +618 9346 4372 (Tuesday, Thursday) Mobile: 0423 540 825 E-Mail : petermad...@iinet.net.au; peter.mad...@health.wa.gov.au The contents of this e-mail transmission outside of the WAGHS network are intended solely for the named recipient's), may be confidential, and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure in the public interest. The use, reproduction, disclosure or distribution of the contents of this e-mail transmission by any person other than the named recipient(s) is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient please notify the sender immediately.
RE: vb.net question
It should be in the language documentation: look for End Statement. For windows.forms it calls on Environment.Exit |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Peter Maddin |Sent: Tuesday, 13 December 2011 7:59 PM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: vb.net question | |I do not code in vb.net but have been given vb.net source to look at. | | | |I have noticed that I have an event handler coded as | | | |Private Sub _testCatalogue_ViewerNewVersion(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal |e As System.EventArgs) Handles _testCatalogue.ViewerNewVersion | |End | |End Sub | | | |When it hits the End statement the application closes. I am expecting that, but I |have tried to find out where this 'End' is documented. | |Is there a list of vb.net commands that specifies what this does. I would have |thought that closing the main form would close the application, but this "End" |seems to do this ok. | | | |Regards Peter Maddin |Applications Development Officer |PathWest Laboratory Medicine WA |Phone : +618 6396 4285 (Monday, Wednesday,Friday) | |Phone : +618 9346 4372 (Tuesday, Thursday) |Mobile: 0423 540 825 |E-Mail : petermad...@iinet.net.au; peter.mad...@health.wa.gov.au The |contents of this e-mail transmission outside of the WAGHS network are intended |solely for the named recipient's), may be confidential, and may be privileged or |otherwise protected from disclosure in the public interest. The use, reproduction, |disclosure or distribution of the contents of this e-mail transmission by any |person other than the named recipient(s) is prohibited. If you are not a named |recipient please notify the sender immediately. | | | |
RE: vb.net question
Thanks Its not just this statement that needs to be replaced, I think the whole application needs to be replaced. However I have to present a good case in order to do so. The application was probably pretty good when it was first written, but its so out of date now. Regards Peter Maddin Applications Development Officer PathWest Laboratory Medicine WA Phone : +618 6396 4285 (Monday, Wednesday,Friday) Phone : +618 9346 4372 (Tuesday, Thursday) Mobile: 0423 540 825 E-Mail : petermad...@iinet.net.au; peter.mad...@health.wa.gov.au The contents of this e-mail transmission outside of the WAGHS network are intended solely for the named recipient's), may be confidential, and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure in the public interest. The use, reproduction, disclosure or distribution of the contents of this e-mail transmission by any person other than the named recipient(s) is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient please notify the sender immediately. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of djones...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, 13 December 2011 5:04 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: vb.net question End is very bad, replace it with application.exit. End will leave threads / resources active/open. Davy Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device _ From: "Peter Maddin" Sender: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 16:59:13 +0800 To: 'ozDotNet' ReplyTo: ozDotNet Subject: vb.net question I do not code in vb.net but have been given vb.net source to look at. I have noticed that I have an event handler coded as Private Sub _testCatalogue_ViewerNewVersion(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles _testCatalogue.ViewerNewVersion End End Sub When it hits the End statement the application closes. I am expecting that, but I have tried to find out where this 'End' is documented. Is there a list of vb.net commands that specifies what this does. I would have thought that closing the main form would close the application, but this "End" seems to do this ok. Regards Peter Maddin Applications Development Officer PathWest Laboratory Medicine WA Phone : +618 6396 4285 (Monday, Wednesday,Friday) Phone : +618 9346 4372 (Tuesday, Thursday) Mobile: 0423 540 825 E-Mail : petermad...@iinet.net.au; peter.mad...@health.wa.gov.au The contents of this e-mail transmission outside of the WAGHS network are intended solely for the named recipient's), may be confidential, and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure in the public interest. The use, reproduction, disclosure or distribution of the contents of this e-mail transmission by any person other than the named recipient(s) is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient please notify the sender immediately.
RE: vb.net question
I found this in the documentation >>The End statement stops code execution abruptly, and does not invoke the Dispose or Finalize method, or any other Visual Basic code. Object references held by other >>programs are invalidated. If an End statement is encountered within a Try or Catch block, control does not pass to the corresponding Finally block. Sounds like it should only be used in exceptional circumstances i.e. when critical/catastrophic errors are encountered Regards Peter Maddin Applications Development Officer PathWest Laboratory Medicine WA Phone : +618 6396 4285 (Monday, Wednesday,Friday) Phone : +618 9346 4372 (Tuesday, Thursday) Mobile: 0423 540 825 E-Mail : petermad...@iinet.net.au; peter.mad...@health.wa.gov.au The contents of this e-mail transmission outside of the WAGHS network are intended solely for the named recipient's), may be confidential, and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure in the public interest. The use, reproduction, disclosure or distribution of the contents of this e-mail transmission by any person other than the named recipient(s) is prohibited. If you are not a named recipient please notify the sender immediately. -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy Sent: Tuesday, 13 December 2011 5:07 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: vb.net question It should be in the language documentation: look for End Statement. For windows.forms it calls on Environment.Exit |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Peter Maddin |Sent: Tuesday, 13 December 2011 7:59 PM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: vb.net question | |I do not code in vb.net but have been given vb.net source to look at. | | | |I have noticed that I have an event handler coded as | | | |Private Sub _testCatalogue_ViewerNewVersion(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal |e As System.EventArgs) Handles _testCatalogue.ViewerNewVersion | |End | |End Sub | | | |When it hits the End statement the application closes. I am expecting that, but I |have tried to find out where this 'End' is documented. | |Is there a list of vb.net commands that specifies what this does. I would have |thought that closing the main form would close the application, but this "End" |seems to do this ok. | | | |Regards Peter Maddin |Applications Development Officer |PathWest Laboratory Medicine WA |Phone : +618 6396 4285 (Monday, Wednesday,Friday) | |Phone : +618 9346 4372 (Tuesday, Thursday) |Mobile: 0423 540 825 |E-Mail : petermad...@iinet.net.au; peter.mad...@health.wa.gov.au The |contents of this e-mail transmission outside of the WAGHS network are intended |solely for the named recipient's), may be confidential, and may be privileged or |otherwise protected from disclosure in the public interest. The use, reproduction, |disclosure or distribution of the contents of this e-mail transmission by any |person other than the named recipient(s) is prohibited. If you are not a named |recipient please notify the sender immediately. | | | |
RE: vb.net xml help
Try this function instead :
Function GetPoNo(ByVal island As String) As String
Return
XElement.Parse(island)...@pon
o
End Function
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Anthony
Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2010 12:50 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: vb.net xml help
I am using Xpath to get a value but fails when the xml has an element of the
form http://www.buylink.com.au";>
BUT works when its of the form http://www.buylink.com.au";>
Anyone see the issues? Is http://www.buylink.com.au";>
Function getXMLXpath(ByVal sXML As String) As String
Dim myEncoder As New System.Text.ASCIIEncoding
Dim bytes As Byte() = myEncoder.GetBytes(sXML)
Dim ms As MemoryStream = New MemoryStream(bytes)
Dim xpathDoc As XPathDocument
Dim xmlNav As XPathNavigator
Dim xmlNI As XPathNodeIterator
xpathDoc = New XPathDocument(ms)
xmlNav = xpathDoc.CreateNavigator()
Try
xmlNI =
xmlNav.Select("/ns0:PurchaseOrderSent/DownloadPurchaseOrder/PurchaseOrder/He
ader/@PoNo") //Excepytion Erros 'Namespace Manager or XsltContext needed.
This query has a prefix, variable, or user-defined function.'
While (xmlNI.MoveNext())
Return xmlNI.Current.Value
End While
Catch ex As Exception
End Try
End Function
WORKS
http://www.buylink.com.au";>
Function getXMLXpath(ByVal sXML As String) As String
Dim myEncoder As New System.Text.ASCIIEncoding
Dim bytes As Byte() = myEncoder.GetBytes(sXML)
Dim ms As MemoryStream = New MemoryStream(bytes)
Dim xpathDoc As XPathDocument
Dim xmlNav As XPathNavigator
Dim xmlNI As XPathNodeIterator
xpathDoc = New XPathDocument(ms)
xmlNav = xpathDoc.CreateNavigator()
Try
xmlNI =
xmlNav.Select("/ns0/DownloadPurchaseOrder/PurchaseOrder/Header/@PoNo")
While (xmlNI.MoveNext())
Return xmlNI.Current.Value 'Returns 2192
End While
Catch ex As Exception
End Try
End Function
Is your website being
IntelliXperienced? | www.yougoingmyway.com ?
regards
Anthony (*12QWERNB*)
Is your website being IntelliXperienced?
RE: vb.net xml help
I had the same problem with a data feed I had to process. The namespace
thing had stumped and any docs/examples I found were no help.
I found and used the trial version of 'Liquid XML Studio'
(http://www.liquid-technologies.com/). It generates a code snippet to
start parsing xml.
Dim nsMgr As Xml.XmlNamespaceManager
' after xmlNav = xpathDoc.CreateNavigator()
nsMgr = New Xml.XmlNamespaceManager(xmlNav.NameTable)
nsMgr.AddNamespace("ns0", "http://www.buylink.com.au";)
and update the select statement to use the namespace manager
xmlNI =
xmlNav.Select("/ns0:PurchaseOrderSent/DownloadPurchaseOrder/PurchaseOrde
r/Header/@PoNo", nsMgr)
David
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Anthony
Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2010 2:50 p.m.
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: vb.net xml help
I am using Xpath to get a value but fails when the xml has an element of
the form http://www.buylink.com.au";>
BUT works when its of the form http://www.buylink.com.au";>
Anyone see the issues? Is http://www.buylink.com.au";>
Function getXMLXpath(ByVal sXML As String) As String
Dim myEncoder As New System.Text.ASCIIEncoding
Dim bytes As Byte() = myEncoder.GetBytes(sXML)
Dim ms As MemoryStream = New MemoryStream(bytes)
Dim xpathDoc As XPathDocument
Dim xmlNav As XPathNavigator
Dim xmlNI As XPathNodeIterator
xpathDoc = New XPathDocument(ms)
xmlNav = xpathDoc.CreateNavigator()
Try
xmlNI =
xmlNav.Select("/ns0:PurchaseOrderSent/DownloadPurchaseOrder/PurchaseOrde
r/Header/@PoNo") //Excepytion Erros 'Namespace Manager or XsltContext
needed. This query has a prefix, variable, or user-defined function.'
While (xmlNI.MoveNext())
Return xmlNI.Current.Value
End While
Catch ex As Exception
End Try
End Function
WORKS
http://www.buylink.com.au";>
Function getXMLXpath(ByVal sXML As String) As String
Dim myEncoder As New System.Text.ASCIIEncoding
Dim bytes As Byte() = myEncoder.GetBytes(sXML)
Dim ms As MemoryStream = New MemoryStream(bytes)
Dim xpathDoc As XPathDocument
Dim xmlNav As XPathNavigator
Dim xmlNI As XPathNodeIterator
xpathDoc = New XPathDocument(ms)
xmlNav = xpathDoc.CreateNavigator()
Try
xmlNI =
xmlNav.Select("/ns0/DownloadPurchaseOrder/PurchaseOrder/Header/@PoNo")
While (xmlNI.MoveNext())
Return xmlNI.Current.Value 'Returns 2192
End While
Catch ex As Exception
End Try
End Function
Is your website being IntelliXperienced?
| www.yougoingmyway.com
?
regards
Anthony (*12QWERNB*)
Is your website being IntelliXperienced?
RE: vb.net xml help
That worked a treat! thanks
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2010 1:09 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: vb.net xml help
Try this function instead :
Function GetPoNo(ByVal island As String) As String
Return
XElement.Parse(island)...@pon
o
End Function
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Anthony
Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2010 12:50 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: vb.net xml help
I am using Xpath to get a value but fails when the xml has an element of the
form http://www.buylink.com.au";>
BUT works when its of the form http://www.buylink.com.au";>
Anyone see the issues? Is http://www.buylink.com.au";>
Function getXMLXpath(ByVal sXML As String) As String
Dim myEncoder As New System.Text.ASCIIEncoding
Dim bytes As Byte() = myEncoder.GetBytes(sXML)
Dim ms As MemoryStream = New MemoryStream(bytes)
Dim xpathDoc As XPathDocument
Dim xmlNav As XPathNavigator
Dim xmlNI As XPathNodeIterator
xpathDoc = New XPathDocument(ms)
xmlNav = xpathDoc.CreateNavigator()
Try
xmlNI =
xmlNav.Select("/ns0:PurchaseOrderSent/DownloadPurchaseOrder/PurchaseOrder/He
ader/@PoNo") //Excepytion Erros 'Namespace Manager or XsltContext needed.
This query has a prefix, variable, or user-defined function.'
While (xmlNI.MoveNext())
Return xmlNI.Current.Value
End While
Catch ex As Exception
End Try
End Function
WORKS
http://www.buylink.com.au";>
Function getXMLXpath(ByVal sXML As String) As String
Dim myEncoder As New System.Text.ASCIIEncoding
Dim bytes As Byte() = myEncoder.GetBytes(sXML)
Dim ms As MemoryStream = New MemoryStream(bytes)
Dim xpathDoc As XPathDocument
Dim xmlNav As XPathNavigator
Dim xmlNI As XPathNodeIterator
xpathDoc = New XPathDocument(ms)
xmlNav = xpathDoc.CreateNavigator()
Try
xmlNI =
xmlNav.Select("/ns0/DownloadPurchaseOrder/PurchaseOrder/Header/@PoNo")
While (xmlNI.MoveNext())
Return xmlNI.Current.Value 'Returns 2192
End While
Catch ex As Exception
End Try
End Function
<http://www.intellixperience.com/signup.aspx> Is your website being
IntelliXperienced? | www.yougoingmyway.com ?
regards
Anthony (*12QWERNB*)
Is your website being IntelliXperienced?
Re: Vb.net Modules or classes
> Gday dotnetters, > > Ever since I switched to vb.net i find im using Modules more and more, > rarely creating classes, particularly at the entry point into a few utility > console apps im working on. This definitely feels wrong, is it just bad > design? Should i be learning OO design again? > > As an example say Im rewriting msbuild or similar tool, i can see myself > just creating a single method in a Module and that'l be it. Is that bad? > what if it is all i need? Should i create a class with a single Run method? > Seems overkill > > Look forward to some responses, perhaps Im hungover :) >From here : >http://weblogs.asp.net/alex_papadimoulis/archive/2004/06/17/158295.aspx It seems that modules are just some sort of static-method-like thing. And while I completely disagree with the example in that blog post, for a VB.NET programmer that may be useful. I agree with his conclusion: do it if it feels good. Regarding writing an application that consists entirely of a "Run" method. Well, sure, if it only does one (very short) thing. But when it starts to do more you'll naturally end up with a nicer design as a result of implementing it correctly. -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
RE: Vb.net Modules or classes
Hi Tom, is it quiet in here or is my email on the fritz? "Modules" were weird and unclear abstractions in the old VB days that irritated and confused me. They still do, so whenever I make a new VB project I delete the Module and I create classes. I'm probably biased here because I come from a C/C++/Java background in the 90s. I'm a bit rusty on this, but can VB boffins confirm that a Module is similar to a static/Shared class of methods, but you see an unqualified "flattened" view of what they contain? Can someone also confirm that the concept of a Module is meaningless to the CLR? I'd run with your feeling on this that Modules are "wrong". My console apps always have a class with a static/Shared Main method, which seems natural to me, not overkill. Cheers, Greg Ps. I recommend that you put all of the core functionality of what your apps do into a library and consider the Console app just a thin wrapper around that functionality. That way you can create Forms apps, services, etc that wrap the functionality. Pps. No coding over 0.05 or with a hangover.
RE: Vb.net Modules or classes
Greg Over the years, there have been some discussions on this, eg Joel Spolksky at http://tinyurl.com/26x7xg5 - and Microsoft does have some words in several places (I haven't chased them up). Erik Meier's explanations might be worth looking for. The joelonsoftware discussion is from 2006, and goes into the VB6/VBA origins of the idea of modules. A module is just a class where Shared is implicitly understood for each member, and the module name does not need to be supplied when the members are used. I'd agree that classes should be used, and to your approach to immediately delete the Module1 when a VB.NET project is first created. I would guess (Bill McCarthy would know better than I) that the CLI is ignorant of Module because the compiler transmogrifies to classes or equivalent. It's often said that Module was a kludge or aid and inducement for VB6/VBA people to transition to VB.NET. _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia _ From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2010 3:19 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Vb.net Modules or classes Hi Tom, is it quiet in here or is my email on the fritz? "Modules" were weird and unclear abstractions in the old VB days that irritated and confused me. They still do, so whenever I make a new VB project I delete the Module and I create classes. I'm probably biased here because I come from a C/C++/Java background in the 90s. I'm a bit rusty on this, but can VB boffins confirm that a Module is similar to a static/Shared class of methods, but you see an unqualified "flattened" view of what they contain? Can someone also confirm that the concept of a Module is meaningless to the CLR? I'd run with your feeling on this that Modules are "wrong". My console apps always have a class with a static/Shared Main method, which seems natural to me, not overkill. Cheers, Greg Ps. I recommend that you put all of the core functionality of what your apps do into a library and consider the Console app just a thin wrapper around that functionality. That way you can create Forms apps, services, etc that wrap the functionality. Pps. No coding over 0.05 or with a hangover.
RE: Vb.net Modules or classes
Hi Greg, Ian, all As Ian says a Module is a Shared class. In C# a similar concept is a "static class" which I think they introduced in Visual C# 2005 or maybe it was 2008. VB's implementation is basically the same but there is also an implicit namespace import inside a project such that the module name is not needed. This is similar to importing a class name (VB only), eg: Class Foo Shared Sub Bar() ' End Sub End Class Then elsewhere in another code file Imports ConsoleApplication1.Foo Class X Sub test() Bar() ' Foo.Bar() can be written as Bar() End Sub End Class Apart from the global namespace "magic", they are basically Shared (aka static in C#) classes. I think the main uses for them are for application entry points, hence forcing the code all to be Shared in there (which is the case), and more importantly for extension methods. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas |Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2010 6:53 PM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: RE: Vb.net Modules or classes | |Greg | |Over the years, there have been some discussions on this, eg Joel Spolksky at |http://tinyurl.com/26x7xg5 - and Microsoft does have some words in several |places (I haven't chased them up). | |Erik Meier's explanations might be worth looking for. | |The joelonsoftware discussion is from 2006, and goes into the VB6/VBA origins |of the idea of modules. | |A module is just a class where Shared is implicitly understood for each |member, and the module name does not need to be supplied when the |members are used. | |I'd agree that classes should be used, and to your approach to immediately |delete the Module1 when a VB.NET project is first created. | |I would guess (Bill McCarthy would know better than I) that the CLI is ignorant |of Module because the compiler transmogrifies to classes or equivalent. It's |often said that Module was a kludge or aid and inducement for VB6/VBA |people to transition to VB.NET. | | | |Ian Thomas |Victoria Park, Western Australia | | | |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh |Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2010 3:19 PM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: RE: Vb.net Modules or classes | | | |Hi Tom, is it quiet in here or is my email on the fritz? | | | |"Modules" were weird and unclear abstractions in the old VB days that irritated |and confused me. They still do, so whenever I make a new VB project I delete |the Module and I create classes. I'm probably biased here because I come from |a C/C++/Java background in the 90s. I'm a bit rusty on this, but can VB boffins |confirm that a Module is similar to a static/Shared class of methods, but you |see an unqualified "flattened" view of what they contain? Can someone also |confirm that the concept of a Module is meaningless to the CLR? | | | |I'd run with your feeling on this that Modules are "wrong". My console apps |always have a class with a static/Shared Main method, which seems natural to |me, not overkill. | | | |Cheers, | |Greg | | | |Ps. I recommend that you put all of the core functionality of what your apps do |into a library and consider the Console app just a thin wrapper around that |functionality. That way you can create Forms apps, services, etc that wrap the |functionality. | | | |Pps. No coding over 0.05 or with a hangover.
RE: Vb.net Modules or classes
It is interesting to read the VB Reference (MSDN or VB Developer Center) on the Class and the Module statements. Class: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/library/wa0hwf23(v=VS.80).aspx Module: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aaxss7da(v=VS.80).aspx In particular, there is a small section in each on Classes and Modules - pointing out the similarities, and the important differences. This is for 3 different areas: terminology, shared members, and object orientation. Tom: If you're continuing to use Module, then there are important sections on Rules (Modifiers, Inheritance, Default property) and Behavior (Access Level, Scope, Qualification). And I would read both the links above, and then (from the Remarks section under the Class statement) jump to 5 of the links there. It's pretty obvious which are important. Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2010 5:14 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Vb.net Modules or classes Hi Greg, Ian, all As Ian says a Module is a Shared class. In C# a similar concept is a "static class" which I think they introduced in Visual C# 2005 or maybe it was 2008. VB's implementation is basically the same but there is also an implicit namespace import inside a project such that the module name is not needed. This is similar to importing a class name (VB only), eg: Class Foo Shared Sub Bar() ' End Sub End Class Then elsewhere in another code file Imports ConsoleApplication1.Foo Class X Sub test() Bar() ' Foo.Bar() can be written as Bar() End Sub End Class Apart from the global namespace "magic", they are basically Shared (aka static in C#) classes. I think the main uses for them are for application entry points, hence forcing the code all to be Shared in there (which is the case), and more importantly for extension methods. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas |Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2010 6:53 PM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: RE: Vb.net Modules or classes | |Greg | |Over the years, there have been some discussions on this, eg Joel Spolksky at |http://tinyurl.com/26x7xg5 - and Microsoft does have some words in several |places (I haven't chased them up). | |Erik Meier's explanations might be worth looking for. | |The joelonsoftware discussion is from 2006, and goes into the VB6/VBA origins |of the idea of modules. | |A module is just a class where Shared is implicitly understood for each |member, and the module name does not need to be supplied when the |members are used. | |I'd agree that classes should be used, and to your approach to immediately |delete the Module1 when a VB.NET project is first created. | |I would guess (Bill McCarthy would know better than I) that the CLI is ignorant |of Module because the compiler transmogrifies to classes or equivalent. It's |often said that Module was a kludge or aid and inducement for VB6/VBA |people to transition to VB.NET. | | | |Ian Thomas |Victoria Park, Western Australia | | | |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh |Sent: Sunday, 6 June 2010 3:19 PM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: RE: Vb.net Modules or classes | | | |Hi Tom, is it quiet in here or is my email on the fritz? | | | |"Modules" were weird and unclear abstractions in the old VB days that irritated |and confused me. They still do, so whenever I make a new VB project I delete |the Module and I create classes. I'm probably biased here because I come from |a C/C++/Java background in the 90s. I'm a bit rusty on this, but can VB boffins |confirm that a Module is similar to a static/Shared class of methods, but you |see an unqualified "flattened" view of what they contain? Can someone also |confirm that the concept of a Module is meaningless to the CLR? | | | |I'd run with your feeling on this that Modules are "wrong". My console apps |always have a class with a static/Shared Main method, which seems natural to |me, not overkill. | | | |Cheers, | |Greg | | | |Ps. I recommend that you put all of the core functionality of what your apps do |into a library and consider the Console app just a thin wrapper around that |functionality. That way you can create Forms apps, services, etc that wrap the |functionality. | | | |Pps. No coding over 0.05 or with a hangover.
RE: Vb.net Modules or classes
Chaps, I think we've answered Tom's question in a way, eventually, I hope. He was suspicious of using Modules, and you've confirmed my suspicions that Modules are aliases for static classes that don't need to be qualified. No other .NET compliant language I know of hides what's going on underneath with a "Module" concept (except maybe F# where by default your methods go into one big anonymous class). I reckon you should avoid Modules, they always seemed a bit weird to me. Everyone recognises the word class. Greg
RE: Vb.net Modules or classes
Aha! Here's the statement that sums it all up with legal clarity: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/7825002w(v=VS.80).aspx This means that variables in a standard module are effectively global variables because they are visible from anywhere in your project, and they exist for the life of the program. The defence (or prosecution) rests. Greg
Re: Vb.net Modules or classes
Cheers guys, very helpful. On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 8:19 PM, Greg Keogh wrote: > Aha! Here’s the statement that sums it all up with legal clarity: > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/7825002w(v=VS.80).aspx > > *This means that variables in a standard module are effectively global > variables because they are visible from anywhere in your project, and they > exist for the life of the program.*** > > > > The defence (or prosecution) rests. > > Greg >
Re: VB.NET (was Re: VS2013 Windows Phone project)
Yes, there are still VB.NET programmers around. My workplace is using C# for many new projects but we have lots of VB.NET (and some VB6) legacy stuff that won't go away. -- Regards, Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.)(Hons.) On 20 November 2014 16:07, DotNet Dude wrote: > Did someone mention vb.net? Finally! Now I can sleep well knowing I'm not > completely a dinosaur...yet. :p > > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Greg Keogh wrote: >>> >>> C# is showing up in more and more places. Xamarin, Unity 3d, and I'm sure >>> its elsewhere. >> >> >> I couldn't help but notice that too, it really gives street cred to C# ... >> Xamarin chooses C# as their primary language, but I see they have F# support >> documentation as well. Whatever happened to VB.NET? I miss the old VB sucks >> Fridays! >> >> Greg
Re: VB.NET (was Re: VS2013 Windows Phone project)
It's Thursday, we can have it tomorrow. On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 4:37 PM, DotNet Dude wrote: > Did someone mention vb.net? Finally! Now I can sleep well knowing I'm not > completely a dinosaur...yet. :p > > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Greg Keogh wrote: > >> C# is showing up in more and more places. Xamarin, Unity 3d, and I'm sure >>> its elsewhere. >>> >> >> I couldn't help but notice that too, it really gives street cred to >> C# ... Xamarin chooses C# as their primary language, but I see they have F# >> support documentation as well. Whatever happened to VB.NET? I miss the >> old VB sucks Fridays! >> >> *Greg* >> > > -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
RE: VB.NET (was Re: VS2013 Windows Phone project)
I've been back at a place this week that has nearly 200 devs doing VB.NET. Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Mark Hurd Sent: Thursday, 20 November 2014 4:59 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: VB.NET (was Re: VS2013 Windows Phone project) Yes, there are still VB.NET programmers around. My workplace is using C# for many new projects but we have lots of VB.NET (and some VB6) legacy stuff that won't go away. -- Regards, Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.)(Hons.) On 20 November 2014 16:07, DotNet Dude wrote: > Did someone mention vb.net? Finally! Now I can sleep well knowing I'm > not completely a dinosaur...yet. :p > > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Greg Keogh wrote: >>> >>> C# is showing up in more and more places. Xamarin, Unity 3d, and I'm >>> sure its elsewhere. >> >> >> I couldn't help but notice that too, it really gives street cred to C# ... >> Xamarin chooses C# as their primary language, but I see they have F# >> support documentation as well. Whatever happened to VB.NET? I miss >> the old VB sucks Fridays! >> >> Greg
Re: VB.NET (was Re: VS2013 Windows Phone project)
Can you name the place? I need a job :-) On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Greg Low (低格雷格) wrote: > I've been back at a place this week that has nearly 200 devs doing VB.NET. > > Regards, > > Greg > > Dr Greg Low > > 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 > fax > SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com > > -Original Message- > From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] > On Behalf Of Mark Hurd > Sent: Thursday, 20 November 2014 4:59 PM > To: ozDotNet > Subject: Re: VB.NET (was Re: VS2013 Windows Phone project) > > Yes, there are still VB.NET programmers around. My workplace is using C# > for many new projects but we have lots of VB.NET (and some VB6) legacy > stuff that won't go away. > > -- > Regards, > Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.)(Hons.) > > On 20 November 2014 16:07, DotNet Dude wrote: > > Did someone mention vb.net? Finally! Now I can sleep well knowing I'm > > not completely a dinosaur...yet. :p > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Greg Keogh wrote: > >>> > >>> C# is showing up in more and more places. Xamarin, Unity 3d, and I'm > >>> sure its elsewhere. > >> > >> > >> I couldn't help but notice that too, it really gives street cred to C# > ... > >> Xamarin chooses C# as their primary language, but I see they have F# > >> support documentation as well. Whatever happened to VB.NET? I miss > >> the old VB sucks Fridays! > >> > >> Greg >
RE: VB.NET (was Re: VS2013 Windows Phone project)
Its very good that someone has had the foresight to keep them all together. You know, just in case we need one. On Nov 20, 2014 6:02 PM, "Greg Low (低格雷格)" wrote: > I've been back at a place this week that has nearly 200 devs doing VB.NET. > > Regards, > > Greg > > Dr Greg Low > > 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 > fax > SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com > > -Original Message- > From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] > On Behalf Of Mark Hurd > Sent: Thursday, 20 November 2014 4:59 PM > To: ozDotNet > Subject: Re: VB.NET (was Re: VS2013 Windows Phone project) > > Yes, there are still VB.NET programmers around. My workplace is using C# > for many new projects but we have lots of VB.NET (and some VB6) legacy > stuff that won't go away. > > -- > Regards, > Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.)(Hons.) > > On 20 November 2014 16:07, DotNet Dude wrote: > > Did someone mention vb.net? Finally! Now I can sleep well knowing I'm > > not completely a dinosaur...yet. :p > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Greg Keogh wrote: > >>> > >>> C# is showing up in more and more places. Xamarin, Unity 3d, and I'm > >>> sure its elsewhere. > >> > >> > >> I couldn't help but notice that too, it really gives street cred to C# > ... > >> Xamarin chooses C# as their primary language, but I see they have F# > >> support documentation as well. Whatever happened to VB.NET? I miss > >> the old VB sucks Fridays! > >> > >> Greg >
Re: vb.net switching between debug and release in VS2008
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/wx0123s5.aspx On 6 March 2010 07:02, Kirsten Greed wrote: > Hi All > > I can’t figure out how to do this, can anyone give me the steps, I am > wondering if there is a bug in my install. > > Thanks > > Kirsten > > > > > >
RE: vb.net switching between debug and release in VS2008
Kirsten, in a VB.NET project in VS2008 I can see the Configuration combo at the top of the Compile sheet in project properties (Debug|Release). I also have a Build > Configuration Manager menu. I can also right-click the solution node and get the Configuration Manager menu. From what I recall, none of these were present in your VS2008, is it still like that? Greg
RE: vb.net switching between debug and release in VS2008
Hi Greg & Arjang I cant find a Configuration combo in the compile tab of the project. The link Arjang sent me says the Configuration Combo is on the Debug tab, but I cant see it there either Kirsten -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Saturday, 6 March 2010 9:48 AM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: vb.net switching between debug and release in VS2008 Kirsten, in a VB.NET project in VS2008 I can see the Configuration combo at the top of the Compile sheet in project properties (Debug|Release). I also have a Build > Configuration Manager menu. I can also right-click the solution node and get the Configuration Manager menu. From what I recall, none of these were present in your VS2008, is it still like that? Greg
RE: vb.net switching between debug and release in VS2008
Hi Kirsten, I like to use the Configuration combo on the toolbar. If you picked General Developer settings it should be there. Otherwise you can add it via customize, but it might be disabled until you select : "Show advanced build configurations" >From the Tools --> Options --> Projects and Solutions tab. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Kirsten Greed |Sent: Saturday, 6 March 2010 10:24 AM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: RE: vb.net switching between debug and release in VS2008 | |Hi Greg & Arjang | | |I cant find a Configuration combo in the compile tab of the project. | |The link Arjang sent me says the Configuration Combo is on the Debug tab, |but I cant see it there either | |Kirsten | | |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] |On Behalf Of Greg Keogh |Sent: Saturday, 6 March 2010 9:48 AM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: RE: vb.net switching between debug and release in VS2008 | |Kirsten, in a VB.NET project in VS2008 I can see the Configuration combo at |the top of the Compile sheet in project properties (Debug|Release). I also |have a Build > Configuration Manager menu. I can also right-click the |solution node and get the Configuration Manager menu. From what I recall, |none of these were present in your VS2008, is it still like that? | |Greg
RE: vb.net switching between debug and release in VS2008
Thanks Bill, That was it. -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy Sent: Saturday, 6 March 2010 10:47 AM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: vb.net switching between debug and release in VS2008 Hi Kirsten, I like to use the Configuration combo on the toolbar. If you picked General Developer settings it should be there. Otherwise you can add it via customize, but it might be disabled until you select : "Show advanced build configurations" >From the Tools --> Options --> Projects and Solutions tab. |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Kirsten Greed |Sent: Saturday, 6 March 2010 10:24 AM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: RE: vb.net switching between debug and release in VS2008 | |Hi Greg & Arjang | | |I cant find a Configuration combo in the compile tab of the project. | |The link Arjang sent me says the Configuration Combo is on the Debug tab, |but I cant see it there either | |Kirsten | | |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] |On Behalf Of Greg Keogh |Sent: Saturday, 6 March 2010 9:48 AM |To: 'ozDotNet' |Subject: RE: vb.net switching between debug and release in VS2008 | |Kirsten, in a VB.NET project in VS2008 I can see the Configuration combo at |the top of the Compile sheet in project properties (Debug|Release). I also |have a Build > Configuration Manager menu. I can also right-click the |solution node and get the Configuration Manager menu. From what I recall, |none of these were present in your VS2008, is it still like that? | |Greg
