Re: [ozmidwifery] Pregnancy testing
Anne the pregnancy test reading levels of bHCG which are elevated only in the first trimester and peak at 60-90 days post conception. They then decrease after 10-11 weeks and plateau at 100-130 days at a lower level that is maintained until birth and is not detectable by 2 weeks post birth. What the sensitivity of the test is I am not exactly sure but the answer is probably both these things. The level was not high at this stage so by the time the baby had been dead for a week the level was low enough not to be detected by the test. Hope this helps Andrea Q On 08/01/2007, at 2:16 PM, Anne Smith wrote: I have a question for you wise women – will give you some background first. Young woman with a concealed or unacknowledged pregnancy at 26 weeks presented with acute abdominal pain to a remote area health clinic. No midwife was present and doctor had not practiced obstetrics for “years”. The woman did not appear pregnant at all. They did a pregnancy test and it was negative. They thought that renal colic may have been the cause. No one could palpate contractions but eventually the doctor did a VE and discovered “something there”. A very experienced nurse then “delivered” (and I use the word advisedly), the baby which was in a breech position. Traumatic for everyone especially the woman, who was then transferred by plane to the nearest hospital. I will be attending a debriefing session on Friday and would like to be able to at least explain the negative pregnancy test. Was this due to the demise of the baby (perhaps up to a week previously) or have the hormones altered so much that the test will not react - a. because of FDIU or b. advanced pregnancy or c. was there a technical problem with the test itself Your input would be much appreciated. Keep up the discussions on why women don’t choose or don’t know to choose more wisely when contemplating pregnancy because we do have a responsibility as midwives for disseminating this knowledge. Many thanks Anne (in the NT)
Re: [ozmidwifery] What happened with this birth?
Congratulations Sue on hanging in there and having just completed my BMid degree'. I'd say welcome to the sisterhood but it feels like I'd be doing it 23 years too late. Andrea Q On 30/12/2006, at 2:14 PM, Sue Cookson wrote: Hi Carolyn, Gail and others, I can't agree with you enough Carolyn. Having just completed (yes!!) my BMid degree after attending homebirths for 23 years without a degree, I agree with everything that you have written - in particular the need to work with the doctors not against them, talk to your colleagues, don't just turn off or walk away. We as a society have participated in all that has been set up - the heirarchies, the 'powerful' few, the fear that has permeated and changed women's respect and understanding of birth. And it will only be through quiet, respectful but definite changes - mainly working with and truly understanding the nature of birth and the role that we as midwives can and do play, that anything at all will change. Through my clinical placements over the past two years I have seen many absolutely horrific situations in hospitals and I honestly can't remember one where it wasn't in my eyes due to the management - be it the dominance, the belittling of the woman, the panic from care providers, lots of practices that are not evidence-based and should be changed yesterday, poor practice and often simply the lack of understanding of normal labour by the care providers causing haemorrhages, depressed babies , separation, interference... And so at fifty years old I enter a new faze in my life - not totally sure where or how but it will certainly be building bridges, informing people - families and practitioners alike - of safe and effective practice, agitating for change and then more change. As a mother of four homeborn beautiful kids I feel now like a warrior/lioness ready to move into a new era and will be challenging all those shitty old practices and attitudes as I go. Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead (1901-1978) Happy New Year to all of you, Sue Dear Gail, Firstly, your instincts are spot on. This is a very distressing story. It is not a coincidence that these women's labours stalled following his VE's, that is absolutely to be expected and is the result of a mindless disruption of the women's optimal state of neurophyiological functioning. Taylorism, that is an industrial, efficiency management model, has no place in the dynamic fluid process of birth, sadly it has become merged into the 'health' care system with this sort of unconscious abuse becoming more common. 'Discussions' with the doctors at that stage will do nothing except breed resistence and further intervention; in mindless individuals it can even result in payback situations where intervention will be done just because you are the midwife. The right to rule is still endemic in the maternity services. the first thing to understand is that these people really believe they are doing the right thing. the second thing to understand is that they are taught all about the abnormalities of birth, they have absolutely no idea about normal physiology as applied to birth (gross generalisation, I know) the third thing is that they are terrified of birth the fourth thing is that they are taught throughout medical school that they are the boss of everything and the government and health departments agree and structure everything (I know, there are exceptions) to reinforce that idea the fifth and probably MOST important thing is that they do get taught about 'patient' autonomy and the need for consent. So, here is where it gets interesting and where our opportunity lies. It is vitally important that you use every moment with birthing women to help them understand the situation, without making it combatative and engendering a siege mentality and ask them what they want to have happen, how they would like things to go, so they can say what they want - be left alone, checked in another hour a few more hours, more time, a bath, move freely, have the baby listened to by doppler in the shower/bath etc if women have the information that can help them with the deeply damaging throw away lines that get trotted out like 'stillbirth' 'brain damage' etc, then women can say what they want and we as midwives can support them in that and remember to DOCUMENT what women want. To do things against rational people's will is abuse. To argue about medical intervention with midwives is a nuisance and an affront to power beliefs. Getting strategic is important. Learning tactical support of birthing women is a midwifery art form and a very challenging one. It is crucial that you avoid blame, judgement and criticism as these emotional states
Re: [ozmidwifery] what happened in this birth..?
It would be easy to be critical after the fact and as you say without being there but from my experience I would suggest the following Just the fact that she was labouring so well and progressing at home does not suggest sub optimal positioning at this stage as this lead to spurious type contractions ( on and off) The process of moving to the hospital and all the assessment by strangers, the time of day ( who wants to be up overnight much better to have the baby by a reasonable hour!!!), the repeated VEs, encouraged into a the gravity neutral position suggests it was not what she instinctively wanted to do and how does taking the head off the cervix help it to dilate?, and when she began pushing was it because she was instinctively doing it or because someone told her to because she was 'fully' and or the doctor was only giving her a set time before he would take over. Some babies just need time to get themselves into the right position and this involves time for their mothers to be ready to let them go. Just the fact that at full dilatation he had room to be moving around does not suggest a lack of space to me. That woman probably just needed space, quiet, support, probably food etc etc and to be given time to get ready to birth her baby. I was with a woman two weeks ago where the outcome was different. This family had lost a baby last year and this pregnancy has been long for them all (Mum, Dad and 5 yo). Despiteinstinctively feeling that things were OK with this baby (Jonah was born at 30 wks with congenital problems and died aged 10 weeks) they were understandably anxious. They had decided to birth in hospital and once labour was well established we moved there. Labour progressed quickly until transition when the woman went into stall mode, contractions didn't alter much but I could tell because I knew her so well (three births together) that she was struggling to be ready to let this baby go. The GP was getting restless at the lack on action and the hospital midwife was sticking like glue but by protecting her from them and talking to her she was able o get herself to a place where she was finally ready to let him go. He did the most amazing rotation on the perineum that I have ever seen and I am sure this is from sitting up high waiting for her to be ready and then being pushed through the pelvis in a weird position (his head was very strange shape just proving how accommodating they can be). The woman was later able to tell me that she had the conversation with her self that this was all to hard to do and then she decided the alternative was too messy (intervention) and so she had better get on with it, so she made the most amazing guttural noise (right in my ear might add) and began pushing. I would suggest that when she made the noise he flipped his head enough from where ever it was lodged into a path that would allow passage through the pelvis. This all sounds quick but was over a period of 1 1/2 hours which considering her whole labour was 5.5 hours was quite a slow process. From the time she made the noise till birth of the baby though was only ~10minutes. Hope this helps Andrea On 28/12/2006, at 10:21 PM, Kristin Beckedahl wrote: I have a few holes to fill in this birth story from one woman from my CBE classes - I just went to see her today in hospital. This is what I got, but I feel as though I want to 'understand'it more - if I can?! 39+6 - Christmas morning! Light cxn begin to build over the day and steadily increase to 3mins apart by 4-5pm. Stayed at home as long as poss with hubby, got to hospital, 6cm, no meds, active labour, shower etc, laboured for another 2 hours, waters broke, pushy, VE confirmed 10cm, started to push - 1 hour later, didnt get anywhere, discovered by VE there was 'a little bit if forewaters in front of babys head had been pushing against - swollen cervix, 'back' to 8cm, forewaters broken, then encouraged into 'neutral gravity positions to allow for cervix to re-dilate, about an hour later ful dilation confirmed (another VE). Began pushing, nothing - 2 hours later nothing. Baby 'had turned after breaking forewaters... and got stuck:. Doctor decides to vaccum, failed. Then decided forceps (!) with epi, failed. Given a spinal in prep for CS, had to wait longer than expected as there were 2 other CS happening (shocking CS rate in this country regional hospital!). Eventually into theatre, given a general, baby born 3.7kg. A little flat doctor helped him to breathe.. and may have been a result of the spinal and having to wait longer than expected...? Mother 'fine' although very dissappointed and emotional and SORE. Baby was OK all throughout, 'slight' mec staining in waters with CS. What happened? It seemed to be going really well, natural active labour, 14 hrs, fit healthy, body aware
Re: [ozmidwifery] Urgent advice please
It is my understanding that a grade 2 placenta praevia is lying low in the uterus and bordering the internal os but not covering it and will not necessarily inhibit the passage of the baby and thus prevent the woman from birthing vaginally. If no further bleeding occurs then vaginal birth should be possible Andrea Quanchi On 23/12/2006, at 9:22 AM, A C Palmer wrote: Where is she in NSW, Australia? It may be difficult for her to gain midwife led care as a non- resident of Australia because she has private health cover and she would need to follow the private health lines. I have US friends living here, who have wanted midwife care and the only Sydney metro hospital to accept them was Hornsby. They wanted to be cared for by midwives even though they are classified as private. Every other hospital they approached insisted on an Obs caring for them. Hornsby have agreed to providing midwifery team care and the hosp will charge the US health fund at the end of all the care. This may not be helpful in finding appropriate care for this lady right now, but she may encounter some difficulties from a non- resident point of view. Cath Palmer -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Diane Gardner Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 6:55 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Urgent advice please I received this from a friend in the USA and would appreciate any midwives in NSW to reply. I have just been contacted by a client who is 32 weeks pregnant (I am also her midwife) She is on holiday in Australia and has just discovered she has a grade 2 placenta previa following a bleed. Not a great situation to be in! I don't know the system in Australia (NSW) but she has received some pretty rough care and advice so far and has been told she will need a c-section. I gather that NSW is pretty litigernous from her but don't know what to advise her re best place to go etc. Are there any midwives / health proffesionals that can advise her in Australia? In appreciation. Thankyou in advance for any replies. regards Di Gardner
[ozmidwifery] Happy Christmas
This was sent to me by a friend and as I say Happy Christmas to everyone on the list, EnjoyAndrea Q Went to Abigail's school Christmas concert (no "proper" Nativity this year ). Each class did a little something followed by a song or 2. Anyway, Ab's class did a Nativity scene, with Ab as Mary ( How proud was I?).A few mins into their bit Ab promptly lifted her dress shoved baby Jesus up it. The script then wandered away from what they'd learnt goes as follows Joseph: "What are you doing?" Mary: "I'm feeding our baby" Shepherd: "Have you got a bottle up there then?" Mary: "Don't be silly he's having milk from my booby" Joseph: "That's disgusting" Mary: "No, that baby milk they have in Tescos is disgusting. My baby's having proper milk" Shepherd: "What's a booby?" Mary: "Those sticky out bits ladies have" Shepherd: "They're not boobies, they're nipples" Mary: "No they're not, they're boobies" Joseph: "So why can't Jesus have milk from a bottle then?" Mary: "Because I haven't got a breast pump with me - you forgot to put it on the donkey" Shepherd: "Can't you ask the teacher for a bottle to feed Jesus with?" Mary: "No because this is the best way to feed Jesus. Anyway bottles haven't been invented yet even if they were I've just had a baby so if you think I'm faffing about round Tescos to buy baby milk when I make proper milk in my boobies you can think again" I felt a teeny bit sorry for their class teacher - she did try her best to steer them back towards their proper lines but she was laughing so much she didn't really stand a chance. The line about Joseph forgetting the breast pump finished her off - she slid to the floor couldn't get up for laughing
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birthing options in Albury/Wodonga
Daaah I just read the whole subject only birthing options was originally dispalyed on my computer Andrea On 14/12/2006, at 4:56 PM, Kate and/or Nick wrote: Hi I have a friend having her first baby in the A/W area. She’s asking me questions about what her care options are, and I have no idea what’s on offer there. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on maternity care in the A/W region? Thanks Kate
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birthing options in Albury/Wodonga
trying to imagine what A/W is? Aulbury/Wodonga was all I could come up with? She could try the MIPPs at Wangaratta if this is the case. Andrea Q On 14/12/2006, at 4:56 PM, Kate and/or Nick wrote: Hi I have a friend having her first baby in the A/W area. She’s asking me questions about what her care options are, and I have no idea what’s on offer there. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on maternity care in the A/W region? Thanks Kate
Re: [ozmidwifery] temp in labour
A woman in labour's temp should be similar to what it is normally. I would consider a woman's temp to be abnormal if it was accompanied by other signs of an abnormal process occurring such as tacchycardia, feeling flushed or unwell. If the woman is labouring in water the water temp needs to be kept appropriate to keep her temp normal. Ie if the water is too hot it will cause her temp to rise thus increasing the oxygen requirements of the mother and her baby. Of course this is not always a sign of infection but can be caused by extended effort such as running a marathon ( or labour) Hope this helps Andrea On 12/12/2006, at 12:51 AM, Sally @ home wrote: I was just wondering if my last post landed as I have had absolutely no replies. Would like to know what ppl consider a temp in labour, on land or in water. Sally - Original Message - From: Kristin Beckedahl To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Use of sports drinks in labour I used Endura during my 4 and a half labour - and really felt like I needed it due to the pace of things (and an early vomit !?!). I've also supported a couples of births where I have brought this along with me for the woman. Both of these births were *unremarkable* with mums birthing normally with no intervention etc with reasonably fast labours; 6 and 9hours. Kristin CBE Naturopath From: Helen and Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Use of sports drinks in labour Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 21:31:34 +1100 Thanks for the replies about the sports drinks in labour however I must say I am still a bit confused. I will have to do some more research I think Helen - Original Message - From: Honey Acharya To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Use of sports drinks in labour I believe in the value of drinks with electrolytes, not just water. Commonly used things are herb tea and honey, their own labour aide, juice, or sports drinks - one that I have used myself and seen recommended by others is Endura which has electrolytes and magnesium, lemon lime flavour is preferred and obtainable in a powder form in a tub for approx $30 at the health food shop or chemist. I haven't seen any evidence on it but to me it makes sense, we don't perform other physical activities for long periods and expect our bodies to keep functioning well on just water and without sustenance, muscles continue to need energy and electrolytes to contract. If there are not studies done on it can you compare with studies on athletes? - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:38 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Use of sports drinks in labour Is anyone recommending women use sports drinks such as Poweraid etc when in labour? I have read some good evidence to suggest it is better than water in long labours but don't have the source at my fingertipsinterested in your thoughts/findings. I figure anything that can help keep a woman from tiring and being labelled by doctors as a fail to progress has got to be worth a try as long as it is evidence based. Helen __ NOD32 1911 (20061208) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Advertisement: Fresh jobs daily. Stop waiting for the newspaper. Search Now! www.seek.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Use of sports drinks in labour
Where do you buy it and how much does it cost, I am wary of commercial sports drinks because of the amount of sugar in them and the insulin dumping that occurs. Andrea On 09/12/2006, at 11:58 AM, Dan Rachael Austin wrote: Hi Helen, Have you heard of EmPact Sports Drink produced by Mannatech? Unlike popular sports drinks that offer minimal benefits and trigger the release of insulin, Mannatech’s EM•PACT® is formulated specifically to help provide biochemicals for your body to increase oxygen uptake capacity and reduce blood lactate levels, allowing an increase in workout intensity and duration, to help you perform in peak condition. Here is a product infomation page which explains the benefits: http://www.mannapages.com/sharethegift/AUS/PRDpdf/AUS193.pdf The Mannatech products are widely researched, and are well known for their glyconutrient supplements. Here are a few of the research links, I haven't looked, but would compare a labouring woman to a marathon runner/athleit :) http://www.glycoexpert.com/ http://www.glycoresearch.com/ http://www.livingsugars.com/index.htm I have been having a drink of this since I gave birth a couple of weeks ago and feel it always boosts my energy levels,it was especially good after labour when I was so exhausted! I hope this helps, if you would like more info, I have stacks of sites I can email you, and I also know some people that are very up to date with their research on glyconutritional health. Kind Regards, Rachael - Original Message - From: Helen and Graham To: ozmidwifery Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:38 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Use of sports drinks in labour Is anyone recommending women use sports drinks such as Poweraid etc when in labour? I have read some good evidence to suggest it is better than water in long labours but don't have the source at my fingertipsinterested in your thoughts/findings. I figure anything that can help keep a woman from tiring and being labelled by doctors as a fail to progress has got to be worth a try as long as it is evidence based. Helen __ NOD32 1.1725 (20060825) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] retained placenta PPH
The relationship between retained placenta and PPH is that the uterus that is not empty can not clamp down sufficiently to prevent bleeding from the placental site. Imagine that the placental site is about the size of a bread and butter plate and that this is characterised by masses of bleeding vessels that have sheared off as the placenta seperates. (Much like a huge graze that has had the skin sheared off bleeds) The wall of the uterus is full of fibres which surround these vessels and as the uterus becomes smaller they clamp off the bleeding vessels thus preventing haemorrhaging. While the seperated placenta remains in the uterus the vessels are free to bleed and the uterus can not clamp down sufficiently to prevent it. An elective casearean is not the answer as it may not happen again if the person attending her stops fiddling and leaves things alone. She needs to read up on 3rd stage choices Andrea Quanchi On 05/12/2006, at 3:28 PM, Kristin Beckedahl wrote: Hi all, Was chatting to a woman y'day re her first birth. She has very fast labour woke up and was 6cm!, laboured for another 2.5hrs, reached 10cm then they gave me the epidural(which I am still wondering about?!?) Bub was posterior so this allowed him to turn otherwise he wouldnt have come out or it would have been very messy!!. (again wondering about the messages this woman received or perceived..) Anyway, she went on to have a retained placenta (I'm presuming she had synto for 3rd stage) and began bleeding quite badly. How is a retained placenta and PPH related, or is it? I thought a retained placenta had come off the uterine and was caught behind closed/closing cervix? Please correct me if I am wrong... Anyway, her Ob has suggested an elective CS for her next baby (due May) to avoid this happening again - what the?! ggrrr Kristin CBE Naturopath Advertisement: Meet Sexy Singles Today @ Lavalife - Click here -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] independent midwifery
I have been with women plenty of times who have chosen for whatever reason to birth in hospital. My view is that it is their choice not mine. and I am happy to go with them wherever they choose. I have only once had a woman whose birth I have not attended but this was because she chose a hospital in Melbourne for her own reasons and it was not realistic for me to attend. I have never been asked to provide ante natal care for a woman who did not want me at her birth ( the reality is that by the time you have shared the pregnancy with them they always want you there for their birth. I have been asked to attend births for women who want to have their antenatal care from sources where it is cheeper/free but I decline this invitation usually. I do however get asked to do post natal and MCH care for women who I have not met antenatally and I am fine with this as it is paid advertising to potential future clients. Andrea On 30/11/2006, at 7:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No , have never been asked to do this. Any woman I have booked have wanted me for the whole deal, preganancy, birth and postnatal care. With the new state wide handheld notes documentation would be easyI have to ask...why would one chose this model of care? - Original Message - From: wump fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:42 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] independent midwifery Do any of you provide private antenatal / postnatal care for women booked to birth in a public hospital? How does this work with the hospital systems/paperwork etc. I would be really interested to know if and how this model of care works. Thanks Rachel _ Windows LiveT Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.0/557 - Release Date: 11/29/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] birth pool
If any one is interested there is a la bassine birth pool advertised on ebay with a few days to go in the bidding it is only up to $80:00 so far Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] birth pool
I have used mine several times now and found it to be really good. Plenty of room for the women to move around and sides that re strong enough to lean on and a base that is inflated so soft to kneel on. The thick inflated sides keep the water warm enough to be able to keep the pool at the right temp with kettle top ups. The pool is all seamless plastic and so can be cleaned with chlorine solution between uses. I ask the women to do it both before and after use thus it is leaned twice between uses and I also sit it out in the sun before repacking it in its carry bag. Andrea On 19/11/2006, at 10:36 AM, diane wrote: Does anyone have experience with this type of pool?? Can you get disposable liners ?? Cheers, Di - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 10:24 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] birth pool If any one is interested there is a la bassine birth pool advertised on ebay with a few days to go in the bidding it is only up to $80:00 so far Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Our Planet AWESOME!!!!!
Not at all related to anything but worth a look Andrea Some really great shots of earth: What A Beautiful Blue Planet! scroll down after opening...
Re: [ozmidwifery] getting synto etc
you can purchase syntocinon at www.livingstone.com.auAndrea QOn 14/11/2006, at 9:13 PM, cath nolan wrote:I have a few births at home coming up and was wondering about synto and other drugs in my kit. How do others purchase them? Do I have to have a script from a doctor? The other issue that I do find difficult is the issue of cost for homebirth.Others I have been involved in have been for friends and colleagues. Does anyone have a schedule of payment and cost that they use? I am meeting with a couple on Monday and would love to have a bit more idea. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated, Thanks Cath
Re: [ozmidwifery] Delaying synto with active 3rd stage
Where I work when I am not being a MIPP we leave the cord until it has stopped pulsating, or the mother asks for it to be cut and then we give the synt after it has been clamped. Our PPH rate is not noticeably higher Put it this way we have the usual conservative GPs and they do not object to the practice by insisting on it being done otherwise Andrea On 14/11/2006, at 11:00 AM, Sue Cookson wrote: Hi, I'm interested if there is any research on delaying synto for say up to 5 minutes in 'active 3rd stage'. Have been doing actively managed third stage throughout my clinical placements as a student (nearly finished!!) with some practitioners cutting the cord immediately, and most at about 10 - 20 seconds. I've just prepared a powerpoint presentation on delayed cord clamping but know I will get into a discussion around the seeming conflict between active 3rd stage and delaying the clamping. Obviously if you don't want the effects of synto's action - strong uterine contraction with excess blood being pumped into bub, then you need to delay the entire process of actively managed 3rd stage until the cord is clamped. Does anyone practice delaying the synto injection for those first few minutes? Any evidence of harm in doing this? Thanks, Sue -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] hep c
theoretically hep c will be released into the water with woman's body fluids and would be a risk to anyone who put their hands etc into the water ( midwife, partner and baby included). Viruses are very unstable outside the human body but the potential risk would be there. I would consider the risk to the baby would be less than vaginal birth as it is getting bathed as it is being born and concentrated maternal body fluids are being washed off but it is all theoretical. If the midwife had those long gloves that ensured no water entered the gloves then there should not be a problem.AndreaOn 22/10/2006, at 7:07 AM, Kathy Lynch wrote:Can anyone give me the rationale why an otherwise healthy woman with hep c shouldn’t birth in water?Kathy
Re: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH???
Well as a MCHN i was certainly not trained by Wyeth. I paid for it myself at great expense. We did have one session from a company rep talking about formula in the context of those mothers who choose to use formula. It was in relation to how to read the nutritional panel on the tin and what to look for. They were under no illusion when they left that al the women in the room were advocates of breast feeding but I found it quite informative none the less and have found it useful in my role as a MCHN when relieving for the shires when the breast feeding rates are often abismal. Just out of interest the rep that attended was not from wyeth. I am interested to know where this idea that they are sponsoring MCHN's comes fromand the inference that MCHN are brainless idiots that cant see through their aadvertising gamesAndreaOn 21/10/2006, at 8:38 AM, jesse/jayne wrote:Really? Is it really happening re Wyeth educating MCH nurses? Aren't there some Vic MCH nurses on this list? I read your email Barb. I complain, and complain, and complaincall hotlines/email, customer service lines, magazines etc. They always have an answer. Nothing changes. Sorry to sound negative. It seems to be as steep a mountain to climb as the whole birth thing. There is a whole network of 'lactavists' out there but I see very little difference (if any??) compared to almost 15 years ago when this was all bought to my attention :( Jayne - Original Message -From: Janet FraserTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Friday, October 20, 2006 10:09 AMSubject: [ozmidwifery] was I need to vent!!! now WYETH???While you are at it, you could complain to the Victorian Office of Children about their decision to keep having their Maternal and child health nurses educated by Wyeth. WTF? My jokes about MCHNs being sponsored by formula companies isn't a joke? Where can I learn more, Barb?Janet
Re: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions
yes she also can see the funny side of it now. She thought I was nuts when I asked her where she wanted to have the baby because she was convinced she had hours to go because of her previous experiences The whole thing is so much fun sometimes Andrea On 07/10/2006, at 2:08 PM, Judy Chapman wrote: Fantastic story Andrea. As I am just starting in home birth I love hearing these variations from hospital stuff. Cheers Judy PS, bet she was pleased after the fact that you had not immediately jumped to ring an ambulance. --- Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes at home the women get just as despondent but the difference is that no one is going to walk through the door and under mine me and 'save' her. Last week I was with a women who was birthing at home after three very different and for a variety of reasons not so great labours.. She had done a hypno birthing course and used the tools beautifully and was so relaxed that I was not convinced that she was labouring despite her telling me that the contractions were getting stronger they were irregular and short.. She asked me to do a VE which showed her Cx to be 75% effaced but 2 cm and quite tight. This really annoyed her and when I suggested she rest she was opposed to this and so I suggested the alternative was to get up and get active and send her uterus the message that she wanted it to get into gear rather than the message that it was obviously getting from all her relaxation tapes, breathing etc. Almost immediately she started rocking and rotating her hips quite dramatically during contractions, she was in the kitchen with the lights on as opposed to being in the bedroom in the dark where she had been before. The response was dramatic and the contractions became co ordinated and strong and within 10 min she asked her partner to run the bath. She got in there and then became passive again lying on her back and struggling with quite strong contractions. It was quite funny actually as after about half an hour she opened one eye and told me I needed to call an ambulance as she couldn't do this any more and needed to go to the hospital. ( For those of you who haven;t been at a home birth women at home often ask to go to the hospital in exactly the same way as women in hospital often ask to go home). She made no move to get out of the bath and so at first I just ignored her but she became more insistent with each contraction so eventually I pointed out to her that she couldn't go anywhere while she remained lying in the bath and that if she wanted to go to the hospital she needed to get out of the bath and into the car as ambulances were for emergencies and this was not an emergency. She did stand up then and get out of the bath, leaned against me for two contractions as I helped her dry herself and then I asked her did she want to have the baby in the bedroom or in front of the fire in the lounge. She just looked at me and said the lounge. So we moved there, she leaned over the ball and had the baby. All this on 90 min since the VE. Andrea Quanchi On 07/10/2006, at 12:02 AM, Lisa Barrett wrote: Hi Sue, Thanks for sharing the information. Your right it is almost impossible to avoid active intervention when birthing in the system even with great midwives like yourself supporting. Part of the problem appears to be the lack of belief that waiting and doing nothing is going to work. Some multips don't have full on labour until transition. It is possible that when the head sits firmly on the cervix the contractions will pick up. I have not ever had to wait 12/15 mins from birth of a head to birth of a body. Physiology tells us that the uterus clamps down immediately after birth. I don't think you'd wait another 12/15 mins for the uterus to contract after the birth and that's if you don't do an active third stage. It is not so hard to do other things when sytno drip isn't an option and you have no-one but yourself and the woman to trust in ( no idiot specialist in complications when your the specialist in the normal I mean). I think I have the easy job when it comes to midwifery because I know I'm the specialist in normal and I don't answer to anyone on that score. Politics with birthing as far out of the system as I do is another thing altogether but in the birth space with women it isn't an issue. I chose to work like this because it's less waring than having to say F**k off to drs all the time. Lisa Barrett On Yahoo!7 Photos: Unlimited free storage – keep all your photos in one place! http://au.photos.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions
Sometimes at home the women get just as despondent but the difference is that no one is going to walk through the door and under mine me and 'save' her.Last week I was with a women who was birthing at home after three very different and for a variety of reasons not so great labours.. She had done a hypno birthing course and used the tools beautifully and was so relaxed that I was not convinced that she was labouring despite her telling me that the contractions were getting stronger they were irregular and short.. She asked me to do a VE which showed her Cx to be 75% effaced but 2 cm and quite tight. This really annoyed her and when I suggested she rest she was opposed to this and so I suggested the alternative was to get up and get active and send her uterus the message that she wanted it to get into gear rather than the message that it was obviously getting from all her relaxation tapes, breathing etc.Almost immediately she started rocking and rotating her hips quite dramatically during contractions, she was in the kitchen with the lights on as opposed to being in the bedroom in the dark where she had been before. The response was dramatic and the contractions became co ordinated and strong and within 10 min she asked her partner to run the bath. She got in there and then became passive again lying on her back and struggling with quite strong contractions. It was quite funny actually as after about half an hour she opened one eye and told me I needed to call an ambulance as she couldn't do this any more and needed to go to the hospital. ( For those of you who haven;t been at a home birth women at home often ask to go to the hospital in exactly the same way as women in hospital often ask to go home). She made no move to get out of the bath and so at first I just ignored her but she became more insistent with each contraction so eventually I pointed out to her that she couldn't go anywhere while she remained lying in the bath and that if she wanted to go to the hospital she needed to get out of the bath and into the car as ambulances were for emergencies and this was not an emergency. She did stand up then and get out of the bath, leaned against me for two contractions as I helped her dry herself and then I asked her did she want to have the baby in the bedroom or in front of the fire in the lounge. She just looked at me and said the lounge. So we moved there, she leaned over the ball and had the baby. All this on 90 min since the VE.Andrea QuanchiOn 07/10/2006, at 12:02 AM, Lisa Barrett wrote:Hi Sue, Thanks for sharing the information. Your right it is almost impossible to avoid active intervention when birthing in the system even with great midwives like yourself supporting. Part of the problem appears to be the lack of belief that waiting and doing nothing is going to work. Some multips don't have full on labour until transition. It is possible that when the head sits firmly on the cervix the contractions will pick up. I have not ever had to wait 12/15 mins from birth of a head to birth of a body.Physiology tells us that the uterus clamps down immediately after birth. I don't think you'd wait another 12/15 mins for the uterus to contract after the birth and that's if you don't do an active third stage. It is not so hard to do other things when sytno drip isn't an option and you have no-one but yourself and the woman to trust in ( no idiot specialist in complications when your the specialist in the normal I mean).I think I have the easy job when it comes to midwifery because I know I'm the specialist in normal and I don't answer to anyone on that score. Politics with birthing as far out of the system as I do is another thing altogether but in the birth space with women it isn't an issue. I chose to work like this because it's less waring than having to say F**k off to drs all the time. Lisa Barrett
Re: [ozmidwifery] Doppler u/s
Its all in the strength of the machine and the length of exposureAndreaOn 23/09/2006, at 9:52 AM, Roberta Quinn wrote:Can anyone tell me the difference between a hand-held doppler and a visual ultrasound macine? Is a hand-held doppler a lesser evil?
[ozmidwifery] porta cots
Did everyone see 9am this morning there was a story about porta cots. A baby died when it became trapped down the side of an additional mattress that the parents had put into the porta cot because they felt that the one that came with the cot was too hard. The coroner has asked that a warning be spread to all parents that no additional mattress be put into porta cots as it makes it potentially dangerous. The mattress provided is firm for a reason as it prevents the baby from getting trapped down the side of the mattress between the soft sides of the cot and the mattress. Please pass this on to all you friends and remove any foam matress that you have added to your cots Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] pregnancy
I have had a client whose mother died following the birth of her younger brother. She was four years old and home alone with her mother 2-3 days after giving birth when her mother unable to get off the couch sent Mandy to get a neighbor. She claims to have no conscious memory of the incident but after having been with her through four pregnancies and births it definitely had an effect. It took till the fourth pregnancy for her to allow herself to grieve for her mother something she had never been allowed to do. She learnt as a little girl not to talk about it or cry because it upset her Dad and Grandmother. Finally during her last pregnancy she rang me one day and said she needed to see me and sat at my dining room table and said "I want my Mum" and then cried and cried for nearly two hours. She then kept crying for nearly two weeks, for no apparent reason but just let herself do it. I think it was thirty years of tears coming out. After this episode her physical symptoms ( she had had terrible gastritis requiring medication throughout each pregnancy and dependent oedema causing carpel tunnel etc) went away and she finally got the pregnancy glow that I had never seen before. She had her empowering birth that she had been seeking and is cruising as the mother of four under six. Andrea QuanchiOn 19/09/2006, at 4:39 PM, Julie Clarke wrote:Hi ozmid wise women,I have just become acquainted with a woman who is pregnant and in a brief conversation she informed me that her mother died during childbirth whilst giving birth to her. I don’t know anymore than this for now as the opportunity to ask further questions didn’t rise.I cannot help but think about what this might feel like to this pregnant woman and I wondered if anyone else on this list has encountered this situation before and if you could share some words of wisdom.My heart really goes out to her and if I get the chance in future conversations I would really like to be able to help her in a sensitive way.Any thoughts?Warm hugJulie
Re: [ozmidwifery] mec staining
Meconium staining of the liquor in itself is not an emergency. It is an indication that at some time the baby may not have been happy. Spontaneous emptying of the bowel contents happens in babies for two reasons, one when they are stressed or upset (hence where the saying sh*tt*ng themselves comes from) and the other because the bowel is simply too full and overflows so to speak. The latter is quite common in babies who have stayed in utero past the estimated day of birth.Meconium is a concern if there are fresh lumps of it floating around and they get into the airway prior to birth and the baby inhales them when it tries to breathe. The presence of fresh meconium is an indication for suctining of the airways ASAP. Meconium staining on the other hand indicates that the baby has passed meconium some time ago and we often have no way of knowing what the incident was that caused it to do so. If the liquor is uniformly stained then it happened long enough ago that the meconium has 'disolved' in the liquor. Meconium liquor is just one part of a bigger picture that needs to be considered and is no longer considered to be a reason for routine suctioning at birth.I fully realise that this is not the impression that parents get by the reaction of many of those looking after them that make out as if it is a dire emergency. AndreaOn 15/09/2006, at 4:21 PM, Kristin Beckedahl wrote:Hi all,Are all cases of mec liquor staining considered serious or treated as an emergency? Can you have staining and fetal heart rate be OK?Thanks,Kristin -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Queries re PI insurance
Sue that is a very good point that I had not considered and would like an answer to. Did this come up in the discussion anyone who was there?Andrea QuanchiOn 06/09/2006, at 6:55 PM, Sue Cookson wrote: Firstly, there are BMid courses which allow students to attend with homebirth midwives - I'm in one and it's OK to do that. My insurance is covered by my uni. Secondly, I am concerned about a few aspects of this insurance deal - namely if I attend homebirths for women in categories where referral/transfer is recommended according to the ACMI National Midwifery Guidelines for Consultation and Referral - like VBACs, twins, postdates, breech etc- will the insurance company cover me for these births? Those who know Maggie's story - she was covered by PI insurance, but the insurance company found ways to withdraw from their obligations to her for various reasons. So I guess my question is about control of our practices. Will we have to notify the insurers of everyone we take on and their pregnancy histories etc for scrutinising, or will we only find these answers if and when problems arise? I'm happy to put my name down to look at these issues ... don't forget, we can only join up by choice... even as I say that, will it become 'illegal' to not join up if the majority do ... Food for thought, SueDear Lisa and All I agree Lisa we need to dispel fear around HB but to do that it needs to be accessible. Your experience of BMid students attending HB is a 1 off. I don’t believe any other BMid course enable students to work with IPM’s doing HB. They also have trouble finding continuity models (and yes WC in Adelaide is again different!). But what I want to respond to is the idea that insurance is just for midwives. What about women? I have had 6 children at home and I have NO FEAR!!! 2 with insurance and 4 without. I understand the legal issues and I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY and would be very unlikely to sue, but this is not the point. I do however believe that HB women must have the same rights as those accessing GP’s and Ob’s. Insurance is seen as a consumer safety mechanism just as it is seen as a professional protection for midwives. This policy to me is very worthwhile as it allows for coverage on a per birth basis. It will enable many more midwives wanting to ‘dip their toe in’ to private practice that chance. It has the capacity to transform maternity services. We can use the flexibility of this policy (and the business arrangements they offer) to recruit midwives who are currently reluctant to step outside of the system. Private midwifery could actually be a mainstream option with women choosing where they give birth. With PI ,midwives could be granted admitting rights and could therefore offer the marketplace a service in the home or hospital. I have spent 6.5 years advocating for women and midwives and 5 fighting for PI insurance. I can safely say that politically midwives will get nowhere without PI. With 200 midwives we can sell 1-2-1 midwifery further than HB (although HB is my passion!!). Yesterday Manchester Unity refused to pay for a homebirth (even though they offer midwifery rebates) citing a lack of PI as the reason. HBA are also reconsidering and MBF has ceased paying out for HB’s for the same reason. I have never had private health insurance and never will, but this is not about the few, again this is about reaching many more women. Private Health is well supported by the Fed Gov and it is a way to reach many more women. Fear can not be easily dispelled by something that is so poorly supported (ie by public or private funding). With an influx of private midwifery there is a much better chance that Medicare will flow on to midwives in their own right (rather than the current idea re Medicare item number 16400 that requires Drs overseeing midwives). Lisa you cannot liken the UK to here. Although I think team midwifery for homebirth is the pits, women in the UK have a legislative right to a public funded homebirth, even saying that in Australia would be considered reasonably outrageous. Unlike the UK, Independent midwifery is the only option for the vast majority of Aust women wanting a HB. Barb Vernon is one very busy person who is pushed and pulled in many directions but like us she is working hard to achieve this. She is recording every e-mail etc received in the hope we get to 200 soon. I hope you appreciate the benefits of this policy in both per birth coverage and business structure; and whilst I acknowledge some IPM’s with established practices may have preferred that this was not a requirement I hope that they too can think with a world view as we consumers are. In solidarity Justine Caines Homebirth Australia Maternity Coalition For the homebirth movement to move forward here we need to dispel the fear that women have surrounding birth, no amount of insurance can do that. I don't
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
My feeelings on it are divided as I dont necessarily want CA to be doing my invoicing of clients for a number of reasons one of which is confidentiality. but the deal itself sounds reasonable to me to pay on a per case basis. I would be happy with a per case fee as I feel this would be fair for everyone regardless of what they charge. I am used to working without it now and have got over the uneasiness of it but am happy not to own anything and therefore my risk is low. Not everyone has this luxury. The NBV are not invoking their right in insisting we have insurance I feel because none is available but I think this will change if it is in whatever form. What I understand is that they are going to charge a 5-6 % administration fee and 1-2% insurance fee and no matter which way you look at it this equates in my book to 7-8% of what I charge for insurance. What I dont get is how this works when everyone charges their own fees. This would mean that say Robyn Thompson will be paying more per client for her insurance than I will because she charges more and I don't see how they will police this. What if midwives provide their services for free how does this work or they could charge a nominal fee say$10 and only pay 80c insurance and still be covered. I wanted to go to the meeting today but for logistical reasons couldn't so am waiting to here from the midwives who do. From what I can gather they need 200 names for CA to start negotiations but I dont think you will get midwives who only work in hospital to be interested even though I think they should be and I dont think there are 200 ind practicing midwives in Australia. I'd love to be proved wrong.AndreaOn 05/09/2006, at 3:47 PM, Lisa Barrett wrote:Hi Andrea, I have already emailed Barb Vernon but have not received a reply at all. I homebirthed in Britain for 14 years before coming here and I must say that although independent's have no insurance at the moment there it doesn't prevent or hinder the homebirth movement fear does that way more successfully than lack of insurance.. The biggest horror is that it leaves these midwives as us vulnerable to complaints not so much from clients but other professionals. I was looking for a discussion on how it actually works . I have read what's available but wanted to know what others think in more detail. Here seems a great place to discuss it. Lisa- Original Message -From: Andrea QuanchiTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:47 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives neededLisaNothing is set in concrete yet but we need 200 names to be able to move forward. There is a meeting today in Melbourne and have been other meetings around the country. I suggest you ring Barb Vernon at ACMI and she can give you the relevant info for your stateAndreaOn 05/09/2006, at 8:24 AM, Lisa Barrett wrote:
Re: [ozmidwifery] test - delete from inbox
On 06/09/2006, at 3:00 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just testing, Ive sent 2 posts to the list today neither has appeared. So Im trying a post direct from my server to track down the *WTF?* moment Im having. jennifairy -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives needed
LisaNothing is set in concrete yet but we need 200 names to be able to move forward. There is a meeting today in Melbourne and have been other meetings around the country. I suggest you ring Barb Vernon at ACMI and she can give you the relevant info for your stateAndreaOn 05/09/2006, at 8:24 AM, Lisa Barrett wrote:Hi Everyone, I'm interested to know everyone's thoughts on the PI. I work solely as an independent and I must be honest I don't think this offer is great. We shouldn't rush into anything just because we think PI gives us credibility. I haven't really seen any huge discussion on this anywhere. Has there been a gathering of Independent's that I missed to go into detail on this offer or even what we want and expect from our insurance? We don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot yet again in our eagerness to portray ourselves as professionals. Lisa Barrett- Original Message - From: Andrea BilcliffTo: OzmidwiferySent: Monday, September 04, 2006 6:48 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: PI Insurance - urgent - more interested midwives neededFYI... - Original Message -From: Robyn ThompsonPlease forward this on to as many midwives as possible. It would be great if more colleagues could contact Dr Barb Vernon, Executive Officer, ACMI as soon as possible to add your names to the list for PI Insurance. We need 200 before we can start the process, so far there are 90. Let’s get the PI rolling for the greater good of our profession Warm regards, Robyn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ozmidwifery] The Purple Line
That is such a good point because people who have never seen women upright are so surprised when you point it out to them Andrea On 03/09/2006, at 3:15 PM, Synnes wrote: H! Now that would be hard to see if you have the birthing mum restricted on her back on the bed, wouldn't it Amanda - Original Message - From: Nikki Macfarlane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] The Purple Line As the baby's head descends Megan, the sacrum moves out and this results in the line appearing. It is something you statr to see, in most cases, when the woman is fully dilated, so is a great visual clue as to the stage of labour she is at. Occasionally you also see it earlier in labour if the baby is posterior and rotating past the sacrum. In this case though it does not tend ot be as long and disappears again as the baby rotates towards the mother's left hip. Nikki Macfarlane Childbirth International www.childbirthinternational.com - Original Message - From: Megan Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] The Purple Line For us non-midwives, now that I've seen the photo and understand the purple line, what does this mean regarding the birthing woman? Megan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 9/1/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 9/1/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Synto question
It can be out of the fridge for days so long as it is kept below a certain temp ( I think it was 25oC but dont quote that) which most hospitals which are air conditioned would be. At certain times I have experienced episodes in which we have had a number of 'failed' inductions which has made me question the 'toxicity' of the synt given that they are all with the same batch. We did report it to our pharmacy who contacted the manufacturers who of course said there was nothing wrong with it but replaced it and the problem went away. So draw your own conclusions.Drawing up the synt before birth is a dangerous practice and one in which I wouldn't be part of especially as the person who drew it up may not be the one who is giving it and dishes with drawn up syringes get moved and I have even seen one which was accidently moved out of the way onto the nearest flat surface which happened to be the resus cot which could have had fatal repurcussions should someone have given it to the baby by 'mistake'. The other advantage of not drawing it up is that it cant be given as quickly which is always an advantage when medddling people are in the room. I agree with the CCT with ineffective synt being a cause of PPH but you should still be waiting for signs for separation before attempting CCT anyway.Andrea QuanchiOn 03/09/2006, at 10:01 PM, Michelle Windsor wrote: Just a quick question does anyone know how long Syntocinon can be out of refrigeration before it starts loosing its effectiveness? Where I am working at the moment there are an amazing number of PPH's, and also the common practice of drawing up the synto and having it ready often hours before the birth. Aside from all the other medical intervention which would contribute to PPH, if controlled cord traction is started after a dose of ineffective synto, it's probably contributing to the PPH's. Cheers Michelle On Yahoo!7 Photos: Unlimited free storage – keep all your photos in one place!
Re: [ozmidwifery] Aus-wide MIPP Directory
Kelly do you want responses to the list or do you have an address to respond to which would be betterAndrea QuanchiOn 02/09/2006, at 12:45 PM, Kelly @ BellyBelly wrote:Dear all, As you probably know, I have an Australia-wide Doula Directory on BellyBelly, which alone is receiving around 400 pageviews a week and growing strong. So I have decided to take things a step further and create a Private Midwife Directory, something I have spoken of doing before (but just didn’t get a response). So I am now being proactive and I think if we’re going to get the world even a little bit more used to midwives as primary carers as once was the case, we need to be a bit more in their faces, especially on ‘mainstream’ sites without having to leave to go to other sites – so they see it all as the ‘mainstream’. I am going to make it a little more comprehensive so the readers feel more at ease than just seeing names and numbers on a list, which often those who have already made a decision to have a Private Midwife would do. Those who are contemplating the idea I believe would be more inclined to consider it if there was more information to read about that person. It will be an easily accessible list, which is amongst all the other ‘mainstream’ type of articles and it will have its own place too. I want them to consider this as a serious option. I always think to myself that for so many of those that come to BellyBelly as the very first site on conception to parenthood, then it can be a very impressionable thing – what they see they believe, sad but true. But good in this case, because I want to give them a great start. If they see this information with details of midwives that they can contact at the click of a button after reading about them, I think it’s going to help the exposure of the profession and it will be seen as a more ‘usual’ choice (that’s my theory anyway). I have seen so many ‘mainstream’ women on BellyBelly finally getting demanding with their birth choices, telling their Obstetricians things like they ARE going to have a VBAC and they ARE going to leave to cord pulsating and decide to use Doulas, and slowly, considering things like waterbirth at home. It’s not fair that they have to be demanding – why can’t it just be a beautiful experience with a midwife! J So if you would like to be in my private midwife directory, please send back the following details and I will get this going asap. Thanks in advance – I am just trying to help the cause that I so strongly believe in J Name:Location: (suburb)Areas Serviced:Training / Other Qualifications:Experience:Specialities: (e.g. if you have a special interest or extra experience e.g. VBAC, breech, breastfeeding support)Birth Philosophy:Contact Number:Email Address: The above is free, and i’ll also extend my offer which I have for the Doula Directory – I can create a whole web page with a unique URL that you can choose and utilize it for promotional or marketing purposes, as well as something for the website visitors to read - up to 1,500 words and two images - for $75 a year. This is great if you don’t have a website or if you want to the viewers to read more about you. Lets put loves faces and words to names so women can feel more of an understanding and connection to who these ‘Private Midwives’ are and ways in which they can help women to have a more satisfying and empowered birth. i.e. my profile is http://www.bellybelly.com.au/kelly-zantey if you want to get an idea of what I mean – I get more enquires than I can handle, often not women already part of my site, so it does work having pictures and extra words to read J I am sure some will probably object in some way to all or part of this, but I really do believe more needs to be done to make a big change…Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] midiwfe in Vic
The list of MIPP is available at http://www.maternitycoalition.org.au/mipps/mipps.html Andrea Quanchi On 21/08/2006, at 10:23 PM, Ken Ward wrote: We have several home birth midwives, all on the internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Belinda Maier Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 12:07 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] midiwfe in Vic I have a client in midwifery group practice who would like to birth in Melb with her family, she is over 34 weeks so i am assuming she wont get into birth centers?? She is close to Monash, is there anyone who could talk to her regarding her options there?? Belinda SA -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: info required
If you are called to a meeting Joy make sure you take a personal advocate with you. Puts them on the back foot if they are accountable for what is said in the meeting when you have a witness. Make sure your advocate takes an obvious pen and paper and doodles on it consistently throughout the meeting.Good luck, many of us have been there and it is worth the fightAndreaOn 19/08/2006, at 7:10 AM, Joy Cocks wrote:Thanks Judy and Barb for your support. Yes, the woman did know, as he was trying to convince her and she asked why she needed it and then said no, when he still tried to push for the VE I said firmly "she said no" that's when the proverbial hit the fan. Might need to remind him of the TV ads that no means no ;)After the birth she asked if there was anything she could do to support me. I just said we'll wait and see what eventuates. What really hurt was that he wrote in the notes (where all staff can see) that he was filing an incident report in relation to Joy Cocks not supporting him, so I imagine I am the subject of hospital gossip for a few days!Joy Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM IBCLCBRIGHT Vic 3741 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message -From: B GTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Friday, August 18, 2006 19:07 PMSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: info requiredCongratulations Joy, you did so well for the woman. You were probably so discrete the woman may never have known you had to stand up for her rights and dignity so she could get into her birthing space.Take him on and just remind him that workplace bullying is not a good picture to get in.Take care Barb-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Joy CocksSent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 10:51 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: info requiredPheewww..Peiter Mourik used to come to our hospital and give inservices when he held clinics there. I would back up Wendy's comments. He's very clever with words and is god's gift to women - always saving them! He believes that midwives can only be independant when they can do forceps/ventouse births! Sorry, negative comments after a bad evening when I stood up for a labouring woman who did not wish to have a VE when the GP ob wanted to do one as how else would he know whether she was progressing or not. He's writing an incident report about me for not supporting him. He asked how I planned to manage the labour and I told him that the woman was managing the labour and I would be worried if she became worried. The woman proceeded to birth without problem. Just feeling upset and hurt as he is my GP and we usually work well together, but probably most other women are not as strong in standing up for themselves.Joy Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM IBCLCBRIGHT Vic 3741 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message -From: cath nolanTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:28 AMSubject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: info required - Original Message -From: cath nolanTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:37 PMSubject: info requiredI will be meeting with Peter Miourik(obstetrician) amongst others in an informal dinner setting on Friday night as the hospital that I work at is having a review of obstetric services . I believe this is a man who is quite against midwifery led services and I'm a bit puzzled as to why I have been asked to be one of the 2 midwifery reps at this dinner. But very pleased at the same time, and more than happy to be a part of this. Can anyone fill me in on what they know of this man? Cath.
[ozmidwifery] childrens books on grief
Dear Andrea and all I am after a suggestions of children's books that would be suitable for a little girl Maya aged 5 whose mother is having a baby this year. Last year her Mum had another baby Jonah who was born prematurely and died aged 10 weeks. They are all still grieving yet excited about having a new baby. Maya has been waiting a long time to have a baby to hold and is displaying anxiety about this baby. She talks openly about Jonah but at the same time became teary. its hard when we cant promise her this baby will be OK. As adults we understand what probably means and the mother is confident that everything is OK but how do you explain that to a 5 year old? I have looked in the birth international catalogue but it is hard to know which ones are good. Any suggestions Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] childrens books on grief
Thanks Di I had seen the listt but was interested to know if anyone knew which ones were good or not before I buy them Andrea On 15/08/2006, at 8:29 AM, diane wrote: Capers have these ones. http://www.capersbookstore.com.au/scripts/shop_srchby.asp?req=Grief +and+Lossby=catchoice=17 Cheers, Di - Original Message - From: Megan Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 11:26 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] childrens books on grief My favourite book on life and death is Beginnings and Endings with Lifetime in Between It explains how all living things have a different lifetime and within their own species, plants, animals and people. Some live for a very short time others live to be very old. I don't know if it would help relieve anxiety for this littl girl, but to me it is honest and respectful of the living process. I was introduced to it when my brother took his life, it helped me to explain it to my children and even my parents have found it helpful to understand the time they were given with him. Its often in school or kindy libraries, so you could borrow it. Best wishes Megan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Quanchi Sent: Monday, 14 August 2006 9:20 PM To: ozmidwifery Subject: [ozmidwifery] childrens books on grief Dear Andrea and all I am after a suggestions of children's books that would be suitable for a little girl Maya aged 5 whose mother is having a baby this year. Last year her Mum had another baby Jonah who was born prematurely and died aged 10 weeks. They are all still grieving yet excited about having a new baby. Maya has been waiting a long time to have a baby to hold and is displaying anxiety about this baby. She talks openly about Jonah but at the same time became teary. its hard when we cant promise her this baby will be OK. As adults we understand what probably means and the mother is confident that everything is OK but how do you explain that to a 5 year old? I have looked in the birth international catalogue but it is hard to know which ones are good. Any suggestions Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] griffith
I guess at this stage I am the only one being on the southern edge of the RiverinaI will get in touch with Elaine and see what we can come up withIt seems the lack on insurance is the deterrent to the ones that the women and I have spoken to so the sooner we get it sorted the better.I will let you know how I goAndreaOn 11/08/2006, at 8:00 AM, Jan Robinson wrote:Hi AndreaI suggest forwarding this to Elaine Dietsch who heads the school of midwifery at Charles Sturt ... there may be some lecturers and students there who would be willing to form a Charles Sturt midwifery clinic and offer a home birth service, perhaps in collaboration with clinicians at Griffith, Leeton and Wagga Wagga? I often get requests from the Riverina and can never put the women in contact with ANYONE!! There must be some midwives down there willing to form a group practice? The two women concerned may be willing to form a Riverina Group of the Maternity Coalition and get the power of the larger group behind them in their quest.They could then write to the Minister, Mr John Hatzistergos to ask him if he knows there in no ONE-TO-ONE M IDWIFERY CARE on offer anywhere in their area other than YOUJust a thoughtJanJan Robinson Independent Midwife PractitionerNational Coordinator Australian Society of Independent Midwives8 Robin Crescent South Hurstville NSW 2221 Phone/Fax: 02 9546 4350e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.midwiferyeducation.com.auOn 10 Aug, 2006, at 14:55, Andrea Quanchi wrote: There is definitively something happening in Griffith. I have had two women call me from Griffith in the last two weeks wanting a homebirth. I am willing to go there ( a bit over three hours from Echuca) but was wondering if anyone knows someone living closer who might be interested in being involved. Any suggestions. I was laso wondering what uni is doing mid up that way whether there was any mid students interested.Andrea Quanchi--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] griffith
There is definitively something happening in Griffith. I have had two women call me from Griffith in the last two weeks wanting a homebirth. I am willing to go there ( a bit over three hours from Echuca) but was wondering if anyone knows someone living closer who might be interested in being involved. Any suggestions. I was laso wondering what uni is doing mid up that way whether there was any mid students interested. Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Question of the week.
Like all these things we can all tell stories that support both sides of the equation. I personally know of a baby whose spinal defect was at the base of the skull. The a/n ultrasounds showed that the brainstem was herniating into the meningocele and the parents were told it was incompatible with life and 'advised' to terminate the pregnancy. They declined and at term were advised to have an elective LUSCS for the reasons stated. They again declined and when the baby was born she didn't die at birth despite the dire predictions and they took her home. When at 10 days she was thriving they took her to RCH for assessment where they found that the spinal cord and brain stem had been returned to the correct position during the birth process without damaging it. The defect was closed and Alice is now a thriving 5 year old who is defying all odds as to her potential.As in all things the parents need to be given both sides of the story and then their decision respected because no two situations are exactly the same and you dont get to do it both ways and decide which one works best. Most practitioners are biased by their past experiences and often dont make objective recommendations to parentsJust another side to the storyAndrea Quanchi.On 05/08/2006, at 10:45 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:Mary, I would say that the meningocele is far more delicate than the bowel and if it is ruptured the long term prognosis for the child with spina bifida is compromised, whereas if it is kept intact the child stands a far better chance of living a normal life. I know of a child, now 7years old, who was born by el C/S with us because of spina bifida. He has done extremely well and you would hardly know that he had been born with a quite large neural tube defect. He has fully functioning motor system, and just a few fairly minor toiletting issues which are improving. He was handled very carefully by a very experienced midwife and doctor and has really had the best outcome possible. I saw him at birth and know his parents so have had opportunity to follow his progress.During vaginal birth it is not possible to guarantee protection of the meningocele, which could easily rupture with the pressure of even the gentlest passage through the birth canal, and therefor, for the child's sake, C/S is probably a better option.Gastrochises I have seen and birthed vaginally are much more robust, while they still require careful handling there is not so much danger of long term, permanent damage. The bowel is not in the same ball game as the spinal cord. Regards, Sue- Original Message -From: Mary MurphyTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Friday, August 04, 2006 4:36 PMSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Question of the week.Would this be any different to a gastrochesis, where loops of bowel are hanging out of the abdominal cavity. A clients baby was born this week with quite a lot of bowel protruding. Other than the need for sterility, it was a normal birth. MM From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Ken WardSent: Friday, 4 August 2006 2:27 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Question of the week. I have seen large and small spina bifida's birthed normally. It is important to keep the membrane intact to prevent infection. These babies are usually operated on very quickly.-Original Message-From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]On Behalf Of Mary MurphySent: Thursday, 3 August 2006 10:03 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Question of the week.An interesting question from Midwifery Today E News. I am 21 weeks pregnant with my third child, which has been diagnosed with spina bifida. This is quite a shock since my other two children were homebirths and the specialists said I would require a c-section. I understand the need to deliver in a hospital where the baby can receive immediate medical treatment soon after birth, but does anyone know if there is any evidence that c-section is better than vaginal birth when delivering a child with spina bifida? No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/407 - Release Date: 3/08/2006
[ozmidwifery] Men at Birth
I've just finished reading 'Men at Birth' and once again David Vernon has done a fantastic job of collecting stories that will inspire you. Do yourself a favour and order a copy ( I got mine from www.acmi.org.au) and buy a copy of Having a Great Birth in Australia as well if you haven't read it. There was only one thing I was disappointed in, it ended. Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Article on breastfeeding preventing bed wetting
55 children is surely not enough to draw this conclusion from. My first born was breast fed and still wet the bed for many yearsSomething like 1% of boys still wet the bed at 15 and I bet many of them were breast fedHow do they come up with these thingsAndrea QOn 16/07/2006, at 1:51 PM, Helen and Graham wrote: Breast-feeding may help prevent bed-wettingBenefits of brain development could play a role, researchers reportReutersUpdated: 10:16 a.m. ET July 5, 2006CHICAGO - Children breast-fed as infants are less likely to wet the bed later on, researchers reported Wednesday, probably because they have a developmental edge.There is strong evidence that in many cases bed-wetting can “result from delayed neurodevelopment,” said the report from the Robert Wood Johnson Medical School in New Brunswick, New Jersey.“There is biological plausibility in inferring that breast-feeding protects against bed-wetting and our results show a strong statistical association” although not enough to prove a direct cause-effect, the study said.Breast-feeding is beneficial because of the role that certain fatty acids passed onto the infant play in brain development, said the study published in the July issue of Pediatrics, the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics.The study was based on 55 children who were bed-wetters at ages 5 to 13 and 117 in the same age range who were not. Of the bed-wetters, 45 percent had been breast-fed, compared to 81 percent of those who were continent at night. The study also found that babies who received breast milk supplemented with formula had a similar rate of bed-wetting as those who received formula alone.Copyright 2006 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters.URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13715951/© 2006 MSNBC.comI can't help but wonder if it is also to do with the emotional security that accompanies breastfeeding +/- co-sleepingHelen
Re: [ozmidwifery] 'Lactation failure caused by lack of glandular development in the breast'
Well for those who continue to say the list is working properly I have received this message bit have never seen another post on the subject from Kelly which I would be interested to read Andrea Q On 14/07/2006, at 8:44 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kelly, I've only just read your post, and I really dont know much about this subject, but I can tell you there is definitely information out there about it, and it is a real condition. I'm a first year Bmid student, and last semester in a lecture with a lactation consultant from the RHW Randwick (if you wanted to contact someone who really knows about it), this issue was discussed in some detail. It was only a short lecture and I dont have notes for it, but what I can recall is this: information and understanding about how the breasts work and produce milk is still being understood, in fact our understanding of the anatomy of the breast has recently been challanged! Lactation consultants would have the best and most up to date knowledge of this stuff, as it's their area of expertise if you like. Anyway, it was discussed that breasts of a particular shape are possibly anatomically different to others, in that the tissue inside the breasts which actually produces the milk concentrates in the area around the nipple, and does not extend very far back into the breast. In normal breast development, regardless of the size of the breast, the tissue extends right up to the armpit. We were shown photo's of breasts which possibly have this type of tissue development, and the features of them were: tubular in shape (whether small or large in size) and with a clear sort of seperation across the sternum, if that makes sense. There is a marked space between each breast. In many of the pictures it was possible to see that most of the fullness of the breast was around the nipple area. This is not to alarm anyone who has breasts of this shape who may be reading this, or to offend anyone by my dispassionate desription of breasts! This is all I can remember really, and this infrormation was given to us as future midwives as something to look out for, but obviously we would refer to a lactation consultent if there was a problem. Maybe this is new information , and the midwives involved with this woman were unaware?? Anyway, I hope this helps, Regards, Astra Quoting Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Does anyone have any experiences to share with this? A woman has posted on my site about her experience and I was wondering what everyone thought on the topic. http://bellybelly.com.au/forums/showthread.php?p=352746 Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, http://www.bellybelly.com.au/ BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding in OT
Well done, keep telling everyone where you work because it can become the normAndrea QOn 11/07/2006, at 7:41 PM, meg wrote:Dear all,I would just like to boast because today I achieve a goal. With the help of an obliging mum, this morning I managed to receive a baby in OT, and except for the brief moment when I rearranged bub and checked first apgar, mother and baby remained together, skin to skin, for the duration of the operation. Even having a good twenty minute breastfeed whilst OP progressed. Mother was very impressed that a baby would fed so soon after birth. Both mum and bub had a good sleep (still skin to skin) on return to ward. Megan
[ozmidwifery] midwives supporting homebirth being attacked
The last two days I have been trying to support one of our colleagues who is under attack. Anne Smith, whom many of you will know, had moved from Mildura where she had worked for many years at the hospital and attending home births, to Wangaratta to work in their community midwifery program which offers continuity of care to women so long as the give birth at the hospital. She has continued to attend home births since she moved. Last week one of the women who was attending the program decided she wanted to birth at home and so Anne documented this in her notes and informed the woman that she would no longer be eligible to attend the program for ante natal care as this is the accepted practice there. Subsequently Anne has been called to task by management because they felt that as she had agreed to attend the home birth for a woman who she had previously seen in the community midwife program there was a conflict of interest/. Yesterday she was presented with an ultimatum 1. resign, 2. be dismissed immediately or 3. promise not attend the home birth Anne felt she had no option but to resign and honour her commitment to the woman to be with her where she chooses to birth. Anne has now sacrificed he major source of income and the women of wangaratta wanting to attend the community midwife program a very experienced and passionate midwife. I know this email will be read by people who already get it so its a little like preaching to the converted but this will have an imapct, Most midwives in private practice dont have enough clients to do this as their sole source of income. Most country towns only have one hospital and if I could not supplement my income by working at the local hospital then I would probably have to move and this would deny homebirth with a midwife to women in the large geographical area that I cover. Wangaratta si no different and if midwives cant who offer home birthing as an option to women cant work at the hospital it is unlikely they will remain there fro long. The other thing they were suggesting is that once a woman attends the community midwifery program and meets the midwives she is bo longer able to choose to birth at home. When asked to sign a code of conduct at the hospital where you work make sure you read it. I did and refused to sign mine until they changed it as it said I had to ask permission from the DON before undertaking other employment. They tried to tell me that this didnt mean that I was reading too much into it and making a fuss over nothing but they eventually removed the clause from my document before I signed it but I know many of my colleagues weren't even aware that that clause was in there when they signed it. This was one thing that was put to Anne that the document she signed said she had to notify(might not be the right word) the hospital board were she undertaking other employment so read your appropriate document carefully as they are all derivatives of the same thing. IWe all think we are allowed to work where we want but it seems hospitals dont have the same opinion on this that we do. Of course it you want to work at another hosital that seems to be OK its only if you are doing something they dont want you to do that they will bring this up against you. Is this what the next round is about? Will other hospitals that employ midwives who also work outside the hospital try this one next. I suspect so. Be prepared. Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: online journals
This is always an issue unless you 1. are studying and thus have access through the uni. 2. are employed at a hospital Most hospitals have access through the library and a government website but I can never remember what it is. If you work at a hospital check with the IT department or library. 3. ANF members can access AJAN via ANF websiteI am yet to find a way to access some journals even with all of the above ( Birth, Practicing Midwife just two off the top of my head). Andrea QuanchiOn 29/06/2006, at 4:50 PM, meg wrote: - Original Message -From: megTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:57 PMSubject: online journalsCan anyone tell me where they access online journals that are able to be downloaded or emailed. I have access to midirs but you can only get articles mailed out and they cost a fair bit. Megan
Re: [ozmidwifery] caseload midwifery
Nicolecontact the ANF as they have three or was it four different ways you can choose to be paid which all ensure you get your payment and still remain within the award. They seem compilcated when you first read them but all ensure that over the year you get all your money but allow the flexibility to work different hours each fortnight. Most give you a base rate each fortnight or month and then pay the penalties for the last pay period after you have submitted them.AndreaOn 29/06/2006, at 9:12 AM, Nicole Carver wrote: Hi all,I am looking for some information from people working in caseload models. We are about to start work on a caseload model and need info about which method of payment is best. Some seem to think annualised salaries are best, but others think we might get short changed and are keen to see us get paid for what we actually work, getting paid a base rate, with penalties paid in the following fortnight. What has been your experience?Warm regards,Nicole Carver.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Melena stools?
Its not normal for sure and she needs to go see a different paediatrician or maybe a gastroenterologist. The history of reflux would suggest that he has bleeding in his oesophagus although I would think that it would be seen in hiis possits unless he is one of the babies with non seen reflux as in he doesnt possit but it just burns away at his oesophaus. For this some zantac or losec will usually be what he needs. This would account for the balck stools. If this is so he is probably over feeding because when he drinks the milk soothes his epigastric pain but he is consuming way more than he needs for nutritional reasons hence the large weight gain. I think the referral to a children's hospital is the way to go. the fact that he is so big might in fact be a symptom of whatever is going on but his GI tract needs reviewing. Black stools mean the bleeding is high enough in the GI tract to be digested, fresh blood is usually from the lower GI tract and could be as a result of constipation ( from the over feeding and tarry stools). You also need to be sure that the blackness is blood and not as a result of something he is eating so the stools need to be tested for occult blood. Consuming black licorice, lead, iron pills, bismuth medicines like Pepto-Bismol, or blueberries can also cause black stools. Beets and tomatoes can sometimes make stools appear reddish. The other common cause of GI trauma in children is ingestion of a foreign object that although not occluding the GI tract is causing trauma. This can usually be detected by a plain abdo x ray. All stuff that is easy to investigate but she needs to keep pushing.Andrea Q Just wondered if I could pick everyone's brains about my 8 month old grandson who lives in the UK.He has had reflux practically from birth, and is now producing 'black' stools which my daughter says has blood in it (obviously I knew that from the black stools but didn't want to worry her). He is formula fed and has been since birth, however the doctors do not seem worried despite my daughter taking him to see different doctors on many occasions. She is now waiting for a referral to the tertiary hospital to see a specialist - am I worrying un-necessarily? He is putting on lots of weight, and at 8 months old he is in clothes sized up to 18 months. I'm afraid that as a midwife, I only really know about newborns!Cheers, Sadie
Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: Birthcentre/ homebirth
Did you read Kath's story that I submitted to the list last week. For every bad birth yo have attended I bet there have been more good ones. Most midwives will not see a woman who requires a hysterectomy following birth in their whole careers let alone see more than one in one year so you have seen yours. Keep it in perspective where it belongs, learn from the experience but don't allow the fear to consume you as you also know how destructive this can be in labour. You will be at some great births between now and when you need to make a definite decision about place of birth although you may not make the decision until you are in labour. The most important decision is to choose your caregiver carefully and let your feelings about all this evolve with timeGood luckAndrea QOn 23/06/2006, at 9:11 PM, Stepney, Natalie Anita - stena001 wrote: From: Stepney, Natalie Anita - stena001Sent: Fri 23/06/2006 7:00 PMTo: OZMidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Birthcentre/ homebirth Hi, I'm a mid student in my last year and 20 weeks pregnant. I'm planning a homebirth, but since being present at a horrific labour which culminated in the woman having a hysterectomy and two days intubated in ICU following severe bleeding post partumly. Im having second thoughts. I was honoured to be present at my best friends water birth monday night in a birth centre. I'm thinking that maybe I should go that way, as there is back-up. I would like some professional opinions please. Cheers Nat
Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !
yes I am going along with three of my clients and two midwivesAndrea QOn 22/06/2006, at 6:24 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:Are many Ozmidders going to the conference?Sue- Original Message -From: Sally-Anne BrownTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !Dear all Just to update you that the 24th Homebirth Australia Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger conference venue'. We only have five tickets left and the program is now complete and available for viewing on the website. Please note we do not do day only tickets. There are only 20 spaces left for the conference dinner which will be held on sat july1. Registration forms can be downloaded atwww.homebirthaustralia.org We will be convening a national press conference on the issues for remote and rural women who have lost their local birthing services pre-conference on Friday June 30 at Parliament House Victoria, please stay tuned. Women, babies, families, balloons and banners warmly welcomed to attend for a 'photo shoot' outside Parliament House at 12 noon. We look forward to seeing you all there... Warm Regards Sally-Anne Brownfor the 24th Homebirth Australia conference team.04319 466 47 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !
At the ICM Andrea R gave us stickers to waar on our name badges so we could recognise each other. Andrea are you coming to GeelongAndrea QOn 23/06/2006, at 12:09 AM, Susan Cudlipp wrote: Should we wear red carnations or something ?- would be great to put faces to names - I am going along with a colleague and a soon-to-be-midwife friend.Looking forward to it - sounds like a great conferenceSue- Original Message -From: Andrea QuanchiTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:08 PMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !yes I am going along with three of my clients and two midwivesAndrea QOn 22/06/2006, at 6:24 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:Are many Ozmidders going to the conference?Sue- Original Message -From: Sally-Anne BrownTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:46 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] 24th HBA conf - Tickets nearly sold !Dear all Just to update you that the 24th Homebirth Australia Conference has just about sold out at the 'larger conference venue'. We only have five tickets left and the program is now complete and available for viewing on the website. Please note we do not do day only tickets. There are only 20 spaces left for the conference dinner which will be held on sat july1. Registration forms can be downloaded atwww.homebirthaustralia.org We will be convening a national press conference on the issues for remote and rural women who have lost their local birthing services pre-conference on Friday June 30 at Parliament House Victoria, please stay tuned. Women, babies, families, balloons and banners warmly welcomed to attend for a 'photo shoot' outside Parliament House at 12 noon. We look forward to seeing you all there... Warm Regards Sally-Anne Brownfor the 24th Homebirth Australia conference team.04319 466 47 No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.2/372 - Release Date: 21/06/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts on Birth Plans?
Doesn't a plan indicate an intention and therefore the desired choice or preference. They all assume women know there is a choice to make rather than the prescribed doctrine of someone else.The organisation where I work has a proforma birth plan that attempts to give women spaces to write what they want in certain areas but it is deliberately vague in others like it is difficult to determine where one should write that they would like a physiological 3rd stage as it is assumed that active management is the norm and unless a women says she wants an alternative it will not be raised therefore there is no space for this to be written. It says 'do you object to you or your baby being given any medications that the doctor thinks are necessary type of thing. Still I find it useful when taking over the care of a woman who I have never met before who is already in established labour that I dont need to disturb her to have some idea what she would like to happen.My clients who are planning to birth at the hospital are encouraged to fill them out with statement like I want to do whatever feels right at the time and will discuss any choices I am offered with my midwife Andrea. They have some merit. Some women write a prescriptive plan for their labour and birth and they are so hung up on making it happen this way the are not able to listen to their bodies and I find this is an attempt by them to make up for the absence of a known car giver that they trust. I have never had one of my clients write a plan like this because we have discussed so much 'stuff' during the pregnancy and they understand the need to listen to their bodies in labour and do what feels right at the timeAndrea QOn 22/06/2006, at 9:02 AM, Katy O'Neill wrote:Dear Kelly, I like the idea of ' birth plans ' and encourage it when I conduct Antenatal groups. I see it as a way to have the woman and birthing supports give due consideration to all the options and give a credence to the fact that they do ( or should have ) choice. Having said that, I get to see very few women who have made one. Some colleagues however do not feel the same as they think it may set the women up to fail with unfulfilled expectations, and set ideas, not allowing for the range of possible labours. The change to calling it by another name may give the midwives less concern as the word preference or intension sound less rigid than plan. So I like the idea. On a lighter side I did see a plan years ago that was so long ( 15 typed pages ) that I'm not sure there was time to read it all. Not my women, but from memory, some of her plans were very fixed and not allowing for the vagaries of each women's labour and sadly I think not all went to her plan. I work in country NSW . Katy- Original Message -From: Kelly @ BellyBellyTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:27 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] Your thoughts on Birth Plans?I am writing an article as we speak on birth plans (I prefer to say birth intentions or birth preferences and hopefully everyone else will too one day!) and I was wondering if anyone would be happy to comment from a midwife perspective? I’d like to know: What do you think of birth plans women are writing at the momentWhat do you think about it being called birth preferences or intentions instead,What you like and dislike when you read them – i.e. too long, too unrealistic or whatever springs to your mind I won’t put your name to the comments so you can feel free to be open and honest about it, I would really love to add your perspectives if you are open to it. Thank-you in advance JBest Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support __ NOD32 1.1613 (20060621) Information __This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com
[ozmidwifery] Kath's story
I was 'with' a woman on thursday night when she birthed that left me on a real high Kath has been seeing me for her whole pregnancy and we had discussed birthing at home many times but she had decided that she wanted to go to the hospital to birth. perhaps if it was my second baby I might have it at home' she said. Despite this I kept picturing her birthing at home and was puzzled why because I don't try and change women's minds or convince them of one way or the other but point out the advantages and disadvantages. She let me know wednesday night that she had had a few niggles and on thursday morning that she was leaking. I visited after lunch and then left her to it. She rang at 7pm to say that the liquor was pink but that they were OK for now, At 9pm they rang and asked me to come. I arrived at 9:15 pm to find her leaning over her bed having strong contractions but she was able to chat to me easily between them. She did tell me they were pretty strong but she felt she had ages to go yet! We chatted, checked her BP FHR etc and I watched her to try and assess where she was up to. She went to the loo at 9:45 and as I listened to her she made a noise that got my attention. I asked her about it but she denied any urge to push and then told me she just needed to open her bowels! I asked her to have a feel in her vagina and she said she could feel something hard! because she had been so adament that she wanted to birth at the hospital I donned a glove and had a quick feel. I said well there's two choices we can have the baby here or you can have it in the car because there's no way your making it to the hospital. She looked at me with a grin and said well I'd rather stay here than do that. So we did and ten minutes and three pushes later James arrived much to his parents amazement and his midwives amusement. The whole thing was great, she sat up in bed an hour later and said well I'd do that again as she put her baby to the breast without any fuss. Three days later they are all loving every minute of their whole experience and I feel truely blessed to have been part of it. Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] ARM at crowning
Rarely, I did use it once for a baby who had very thick liquor after SROM minutes before birth (see the latest birth matters journal for her birth story) but that is the only time. I always have it set up and am happy to set it up and pack it up without using it. I still have my original cylinder of oxygen so that tells you how of often it has been used. Initially I planned to use a mucous trap but had trouble sourcing them so gave up and got the twin o vac because I was familiar with it and figured that was the main thing that if I ever needed to use it I needed to be familiar with what I was using.AndreaOn 07/06/2006, at 5:28 PM, Lisa Barrett wrote:Hi Andrea, I'm happy with manual suction. It's not really that necessary to use it often anyway. I already have my own flowmetre etc and just don't see the need for anything else. I hire oxygen and your right it's very inexpensive. I have also hired Entonox if the woman does make a request although don't encourage it.(It never gets used). How often do you use suction? Lisa- Original Message -From: Andrea QuanchiTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 6:27 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] ARM at crowningA twin o vac new costs around $900 and then there is the annual cost of hiring the O2 cylinder which is relatively inexpensive. Andrea QuanchiOn 06/06/2006, at 11:41 PM, Lisa Barrett wrote:
Re: [ozmidwifery] ARM at crowning
A twin o vac new costs around $900 and then there is the annual cost of hiring the O2 cylinder which is relatively inexpensive. Andrea QuanchiOn 06/06/2006, at 11:41 PM, Lisa Barrett wrote:Hi, Julie, I am an independent midwife and I use bi manual suction. I have a suction tube with a little pot and none returnable valve, I suck on end and the other goes into the baby's mouth. I'm from Wales and this was common practice at home in the community and in theatre where there was no wall suction. That's quite a recent addition to some establishments. Do you know how expensive a twinivac is! Saying all that I hardly ever use it. It has no foundation to be of any benefit. Born in the Caul though I could see it may help a lot.Lisa- Original Message -From: Julie GarrattTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:39 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] ARM at crowningHi all, I worked at a birth center in the Philippines last year where there was no intervention in labour including ARM, most women had a srom shortly before the birth of the head and others who had a srom early in labour often had less than perfect fetal positioning associated with this. There was often a rather exiting time where you hold a towel as the head is crowning with bulging membranes at the introitus awaiting an almighty splash with the next contraction. We used a a bulb syringe on these babies as they were a bit "wet" and gurgley when they came out. The traditional birth attendants told me that they suction with their own mouths! A few babies, maybe five percent were born in the caul, they looked like little bank robbers with stockings over their heads. I particularly remember one who drew the membranes into his mouth gasping as I was frantically trying to break them with my hands. Not surprisingly these babys seemed to have particually tough membranes. As far as controlling the head went, I cant remember it being a problem as hands were poised most of the time and we had fairly good perineal outcomes.Hope this helps, Julie:)
Re: [ozmidwifery] informed consent
I suggest getting a map and start colouring it in as you get replies Victorias MIPP are listed on the maternity coalition website although they dont have specific locations noted you may be able to tell from the phone numbers where they are. I am in Echuca on the Victorian/ NSW border and have attended births about a 100km radius. I have been to Echuca, Shepparton, Tatura, Rochester, Kyabram, Barmah, Cohuna, Kerang and Koondrook in Victoria and Moama, Deniliquin and Barham(NSW). On 03/06/2006, at 11:42 AM, Kate Andrews wrote: I have attempted to have a student in the past but she went to the footy and forgot to take her mobile phone with her so missed the birth. I have another arranged in about 2 months. My daughter who is 18 and still trying to decide what she wants to do is coming to a birth in the coming months. I dont know who is more excited about that her or me. Good luck with the assignment Andrea Quanchi I'm a student and have chosen homebirth as my topic for a presentation to give in our final semester. I'd like to compile a map of homebirth practices arounbd Australia.Does anyone have any info or suggestions on where to look. In regards the comments about students getting the opportunity to gain experience in this setting , in our course its not even considered. I'm glad to have had a home birth myself and helped friends at their home births but this was quite a while before embarking on the midwifery journey myself. Where in Australia do student midwifes be given this learning oppotunity? Kate -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] informed consent
I'd be interested to see the map when you have finished Andrea On 03/06/2006, at 11:42 AM, Kate Andrews wrote: I'm a student and have chosen homebirth as my topic for a presentation to give in our final semester. I'd like to compile a map of homebirth practices arounbd Australia.Does anyone have any info or suggestions on where to look. In regards the comments about students getting the opportunity to gain experience in this setting , in our course its not even considered. I'm glad to have had a home birth myself and helped friends at their home births but this was quite a while before embarking on the midwifery journey myself. Where in Australia do student midwifes be given this learning oppotunity? Kate -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] students learning
If the woman invites the student to be there and the MIPP is happy what prevents them from being there. Surely we are letting them know what the real world is like and the reality is that MIPP are working uninsured and having to cope with what that means in reality. This is no different from when I attend a hospital with a woman and the hospital says that they only recognise me as a support person. I could let that stop me from going there but I don't. If students want to be at hom births they will, they will learn heaps and if they cant write it down on paper for the uni then dont but dont let it stop them from attending because the experience is to valuable to waste. Andrea Quanchi On 01/06/2006, at 7:03 PM, Stephen Felicity wrote: I think perhaps you women are the lucky ones; I only recently had an email from a student midwife in SA, lamenting that she is unable to attend homebirths unless the midwife is publicly employed (ie: not a MIPP). Since the only homebirth midwives employed by the Government in SA are part of the Northern Women's Community Midwifery Program, anyone not fortunate enough to be in that region has zero opportunity to work in all situations. This is clearly an insurance issue as well as an educational institution issue...but it's all one and the same at the end of the day, isn't it? It's all just part of the overall climate for midwifery and birthing women in our country. - Original Message - From: Kirsten Dobbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 5:10 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] students learning I can back up Kate, (as we attend the same uni!) I have only ever been encouraged and supported to attend births with independent midwives by our uni. Kirsten -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kate and/or Nick Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:57 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] students learning For fyi, student midwives here in SA are *forbidden* to seek experience of any kind with any independently practicing midwife, on threat of a fail grade for the clinical topic /or expulsion from the course. While this is the case at one uni, it does not appear to be at the other uni. We have a lay midwife doing the Bmid who will be doing her practicum with an independent midwife. We believe we are able to participate in homebirths, and I am certainly hoping to do just that. Kate -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] degrees of high BP in preg
Generally speaking High blood pressure that develops before 20 weeks gestation is considered essential hypertension ( not pregnancy related) and if it develops after 20 weeks it is considered to be pregnancy related. What is considered is not the number itself but the rise from the womans normal BP. A rise of 20mm is considered normal but above this needs watching, The trouble is many women suffer from white coat BP rises which means that the minute they walk into the doctors office their BP rises dramatically with the stress and if it is taken by someone they feel relaxed with then it will be normal , This is in fact a normal reaction to stress and is typically demonstrated when women are admitted to hospital with supposed elevation in thier BP but when it is taken by the midwives it is within normal range.Hope this helpsAndrea QuanchiOn 01/06/2006, at 8:41 PM, Kristin Beckedahl wrote:wise women...At what point does high blood pressure become an issue in preg? what is a 'normal' reading for a healthy preg woman? What reading is considered 'high-risk' or requiring action (without proteinuria)...?Big thanksFrom: Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] students learningDate: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 19:57:06 +1000If the woman invites the student to be there and the MIPP is happy what prevents them from being there. Surely we are letting them know what the real world is like and the reality is that MIPP are working uninsured and having to cope with what that means in reality. This is no different from when I attend a hospital with a woman and the hospital says that they only recognise me as a support person. I could let that stop me from going there but I don't. If students want to be at hom births they will, they will learn heaps and if they cant write it down on paper for the uni then dont but dont let it stop them from attending because the experience is to valuable to waste.Andrea QuanchiOn 01/06/2006, at 7:03 PM, Stephen Felicity wrote:I think perhaps you women are the "lucky" ones; I only recently had an email from a student midwife in SA, lamenting that she is unable to attend homebirths unless the midwife is "publicly employed" (ie: not a MIPP). Since the only homebirth midwives employed by the Government in SA are part of the Northern Women's Community Midwifery Program, anyone not fortunate enough to be in that region has zero opportunity to work "in all situations". This is clearly an insurance issue as well as an educational institution issue...but it's all one and the same at the end of the day, isn't it? It's all just part of the overall climate for midwifery and birthing women in our country.- Original Message - From: "Kirsten Dobbs" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 5:10 PMSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] students learningI can back up Kate, (as we attend the same uni!)I have only ever been encouraged and supported to attend births withindependent midwives by our uni.Kirsten-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Kate and/or NickSent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 9:57 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] students learningFor fyi, student midwives here in SA are *forbidden* to seek experienceof any kind with any independently practicing midwife, on threat of afail grade for the clinical topic /or expulsion from the course.While this is the case at one uni, it does not appear to be at the otheruni. We have a lay midwife doing the Bmid who will be doing her practicumwith an independent midwife. We believe we are able to participate inhomebirths, and I am certainly hoping to do just that.Kate--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Re:
The place I work we give it when we do the NST. It was a midwife decision not an evidence based one. Like giving it with the vit K it is easier to do it at a predictable time so that it doesn't get overlooked. The midwives wanted not to do it at birth as they were wanting to do as little as possible to interupt Mum and baby, As we need to have a signed consent form to give it and the mothers have often not filled this is prior to birth it was very interupting to get all thisDone on the birth day and we find it not an issue later when everyone has had time to sit down read the literature and discuss it. Of course then we do have a number of mums who decline to have it which is their right and is not an issue at all. Andrea Q On 25/05/2006, at 8:10 PM, Amanda W wrote: Hi all, I have just started working at a new health facility that tends to give hep B injections on day 2 or 3. I have come from a facility that gives hep B at birth when vitamin k is given. Can anyone shed some light as to why the might do it this way. Any articles. They seem to not know why they do it. I just want to change practice so that can be done at the same time as the vitamin k. Thanks. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] the Baby Catcher
I bought myself Peggy Vincent's book the Baby Catcher for IMD and have just finished reading it. I laughed, I cried but most of all thought I was reading a book that could have been about me. I would encouraged everyone to read it. Thanks Andrea for putting it on the list for IMD Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] the Baby Catcher
I bought it from Birth International www.birthinternational.com.au On 19/05/2006, at 2:00 PM, sharon wrote: where can u buy this book is it avaliable at dymocks ect - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 1:24 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] the Baby Catcher I bought myself Peggy Vincent's book the Baby Catcher for IMD and have just finished reading it. I laughed, I cried but most of all thought I was reading a book that could have been about me. I would encouraged everyone to read it. Thanks Andrea for putting it on the list for IMD Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Caroline Flint
Marytry her websitewww.carolineflint.co.ukAndreaOn 16/05/2006, at 10:04 AM, Mary Murphy wrote:Does anyone have a direct email contact for Caroline? My previous contact is incorrect. Thanks, MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Caroline Flint
OOps Mary copied the wrong linewww.independentmidwives.org.uk/article98.htmtry this oneAndreaOn 16/05/2006, at 10:04 AM, Mary Murphy wrote:Does anyone have a direct email contact for Caroline? My previous contact is incorrect. Thanks, MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] MOY interview
Congratulations Marycan we read the letter anywhereAndreaOn 06/05/2006, at 8:51 AM, Mary Murphy wrote:Thanks Jan and everyone else! I was thrilled that the essence of midwifery was being celebrated. The woman who wrote the nomination was concise and eloquent in her praise of midwifery skills. She captured the spirit of one to one midwifery care in about 50 words. It is all I have strived to achieve over the years. It is all that midwives can achieve if they are given the right environment. MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] IMD
Thanks LynnI too welcomed a baby at 00:27 this morning and found it a wonderful way to celebrate IMD. Although now up and at it again after 5 hours sleep is a bit ordinary. How come the rest of the world doesnt fit in with this wonderful thing we do. Have a great day everyoneAndrea QuanchiOn 05/05/2006, at 9:42 AM, Lynne Staff wrote:To all a wonderful day recognising the work that we do as midwives. I am off to bed after being with Julia and Geoff as they welcomed their firstborn son this morning at 4.55. What a way to start the day!Warm regards, Lynne- Original Message -From: Ceri KatrinaTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Friday, May 05, 2006 9:01 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IMDDitto! Have a great day everybody!KatrinaOn 04/05/2006, at 10:31 PM, diane wrote:Happy International Midwives Day to everyone. Cheers,Di
Re: [ozmidwifery] query
Nancy tell us more about what you have, where you are and what prices you are asking. Perhaps pictures or brand names would be good Andrea Quanchi On 03/05/2006, at 10:28 AM, Nancy San Martin wrote: Hello Andrea, I am a midwife in far north NSW, used to be independent until insurance ceased. Now I have a fair bit of equipment to sell and was wondering if I could publish the list on ozmid? I have a pregnancy rocker and birthrite birth stool as well as many smaller items. I thought it might be good for both myself and buyers - getting good stuff at good prices. Please let me know if this is possible. Thanks for considering. Kind regards, Nancy San Martin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Wednesday, 3 May 2006 9:09 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Nitrous oxide - potential dangers for midwives Hi everyone, The article published in MIDIRS March 2006 on Nitrous Oxide - no laughing matter is now available on our website. You can access it directly here: http://www.birthinternational.com/articles/andrea27.html or though My Diary: http://www.birthinternational.com/diary/index.html This is a very important health and safety issue for midwives and I urge everyone to read it and circulate it widely. A similar article will be published in the Midwifery Matters journal of the Association of Radical Midwives in the UK in June (I have been advised). Regards, Andrea -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Feeling your own cervix
I dont have the web site bit saved it onto my computer. It was from Gloria Lemay so may be on her website - AQHow to Check Your Own Cervix- "it's not rocket science" Self-Checking of Dilation and Descent"I think it's a good and empowering thing for a woman to check her own cervix for dilation. This is not rocket science, and you hardly need a medical degree or years of training to do it. Your vagina is a lot like your nose- other people may do harm if they put fingers or instruments up there but you have a greater sensitivity and will not do yourself any harm. "The best way to do it when hugely pregnant is to sit on the toilet with one foot on the floor and one up on the seat of the toilet. Put two fingers in and go back towards your bum. The cervix in a pregnant woman feels like your lips puckered up into a kiss. On a non-pregnant woman it feels like the end of your nose. When it is dilating, one finger slips into the mid dle of the cervix easily (just like you could slide your finger into your mouth easily if you are puckered up for a kiss). As the dilation progresses the inside of that hole becomes more like a taught elastic band and by 5 cms dilated (5 fingerwidths) it is a perfect rubbery circle like one of those Mason jar rings that you use for canning, and about that thick. "What's in the centre of that opening space is the membranes (bag of waters) that are covering the baby's head and feel like a latex balloon filled with water. If you push on them a bit you'll feel the baby's head like a hard ball (as in baseball). If the waters have released you'll feel the babe's head directly.On 13/04/2006, at 12:11 AM, Susan Cudlipp wrote:Sorry - I reposted it but put Jo instead of Sadie "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke- Original Message -From: SadieTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:48 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] Feeling your own cervix Hi,Does anyone still have the link that was on Ozmidwifery recently about feeling for your own cervix? I thought I'd saved it - but I hadn't. Thanks, SadieNo virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: 10/04/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Attendants in Bendigo?
Helen Sandner MIPP[EMAIL PROTECTED]On 06/04/2006, at 2:35 PM, Janet Fraser wrote:http://douladirectory.joyousbirth.info/vic.html#bendigo- Original Message -From: Kelly @ BellyBellyTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:20 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] Birth Attendants in Bendigo?If you can suggest anyone please let me know.Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybellycom.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] PPH C/S
the things is that if her babies are that big imagine how big her placentas are, probably the size of a dinner plate instead of a bread and butter plate. It makes sense that a large placental site will bleed more than a little one but its whether the woman is symptomatic or not that matters. If she does not cope with the amount of blood she lost then it is an issue and she needs to look at alternatives rather than go inyo it and just let the same thing happen again like the proverbial ostrich. If it is just that the doctor is uncomfortable with the blood loss but she is physiologically fine then find another care giver and save him the grey hair.Its all about what she wants and is prepared to do to get it. Andrea QuanchiOn 03/04/2006, at 10:14 AM, Robyn Dempsey wrote:I feel that if this woman has had such large babies, what a wonderful pelvis she must have! Good on her! Rather than promoting a c-section, perhaps look at her diet...does she just grow big bubs, or does she over indulge in the sugary foods? If PPH is the worry, perhaps a discussion around a managed 3rd stage, or syntocinon if there are any signs of excessive bleeding. I've had many women with large babies, doesn't mean they will have a PPH, simply that they grow bigger bubs, and have a pelvis to fit them thru. CheersRobyn D- Original Message -From: Kelly @ BellyBellyTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: 01 April, 2006 4:26 PMSubject: [ozmidwifery] PPH C/SHello all, A woman on my forums has had two normal births of big babies – 11lb3oz and 13lb5oz and had a PPH with both. Her Ob is now recommending a c/s with her third bub and wants a scan at 34 weeks as a deciding factor of this. She wants a normal birth – is it okay just for her to say no without too much risk with PPH?Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] Maternal Vitamin K?
Mary just off the top of my head a baby's vitamin K levels are reduced at birth as a consequence of poor placental transportation of vitamin K. As nature hasn't got much wrong in the birth process you would assume this is the way it is meant to be and increasing maternal vitamin k would unpredictably increase the baby's vitamin K levels anyway. The question is do we really want to do it and mothers need to know that they can decline the vitamin K offered. Andrea QOn 23/03/2006, at 10:52 PM, Mary Doyle wrote:Midwives et al... Is there any way maternal Vitamin K can be accumulated prior to birth and therefore passed on to her baby, in order to prevent the newborn requiring neonatal Vitamin K??? Thanks in anticipation... Mary DoyleEarly Parenting ManagerAlpine Health
Re: [ozmidwifery] Maternal Vitamin K?
except giving a vitamin K injection is not a vacination. It produces no response in the immune system but causes a physiological response that is arguably not needed unless the baby and mother are interupted at birth either necessarily or unnecessarily Andrea Q On 24/03/2006, at 4:33 PM, Jo Watson wrote: On 24/03/2006, at 1:11 PM, Sue Cookson wrote: Same sort of riks/benefits as any vaccination concept - oral vs IM route with IM bypassing normal modes of K intake which is either dietary or produced in the gut, IM including preservatives etc within the product. Hi Sue Here in WA the same preparation is used for oral and IM vitamin K (Konakion). So the preservatives you write about in the IM are also present in the oral. Jo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] placental gardening
Why dont you go to a good nursery and ask them what plants would thrive in a pot with a placenta. Maybe you need a pair of pots ( and half in each as it might be too much for one and would also increase your chances of having one survive Andrea Q On 20/02/2006, at 7:46 PM, Jo Watson wrote: Vicky, I am in the same boat - mine is still in the freezer from almost 9 months ago! I also had a home water birth, 29 min pushing, 7 hours total labour, physiological third stage... I am also a primip Midwife ;) Jo On 20/02/2006, at 4:19 PM, Vicky Gotte wrote: Hi everyone, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice about planting my placenta- it has been in the freezer for 5 months and I really need to do something with it!). I want to put it in a pot plant as I'd want to take the plant if we move. What plants would you recommend (please note I have killed mint!)and should I put it in a big plant pot or a small one. Do I need to do anything with the potting mix, or is a placenta and premium mix enough to make sure the plant thrives?. I know it's not really a mid question but I really want a 'special' plant for my daughter, and I didn't think the local nursery could give much advice. By the way, I had a beautiful water birth (with hardly any pushing), after a 2 1/2 hour first stage, and completed with a physiological third stage. (Not bad for a primip midwife!). Thanks a lot, Vicky Do you Yahoo!? Find a local business fast with Yahoo! Local Search http://au.local.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] A first for me
Today I had my first waterbirth. It was so beautiful. All 4.8kg of him manipulated his way out all by himself. Mum was able to describe his movements to us in a running commentary even down to telling us that the shoulders were rotating after his head was born. tears in Dads ( and the midwives) eyes and complete awe on the face of his 3 year old big sister ( who offered to put the slide into the pool for mum). its such a buzz attending births like this. Planned second midwife was away and so we invited one who had not attended a homebirth ( or waterbirth) before and she is herself pregnant so I can only hope she was inspired to great things for herself. I was glad that we had discussed water birth at length in Maggie Banks workshop last week because I was not surprised when this baby was so peaceful in the water that we actually had to remind him that he needed to join those of us who breathe air. he just lay there in his Mums arms looking around and didnt seem to get that idea for a while. Addicted to birth Andrea Q -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Post cs support
Janet JoI can only speak about the places I have worked where the vast majority of midwives are mothers and choose to work part time. If you are with a woman in labour and or attend her LUSCS you may not even get to see her again during her stay. She will see a different midwife/s each shift and only stay in hospital 2-3 days. In my experience( and it has been a few years) it is unusual for the feelings you are talking about to come anywhere near the point where the woman is willing to discuss them with a total stranger no matter how nice they appear on first meeting. The women are in a state of shock. The reality is that as a hospital employed midwife you are unlikely to ever to see the woman again after she is discharged from your unit on day 3-4. If you have any suggestions for how we should handle this I for one am willing to listen. I personally try to speak to all such women and their partners and suggest that down the track they may experience some PTS and need to talk with their midwife again and suggest that they call but have never had a woman do this. Should we give them a handout? Perhaps someone who has been through the experience could design one because its not that we dont care but we are as much at a loss on how to deal with it as you suggest.I am in no way excusing but try and consider the frustration of turning up to work every day and facing a situation that you know sucks and is letting down women daily. It is wearing and what makes midwives give it up. The passionate ones find their way to something better but the majority just give up and become the turn up, do what I have to and get my pay variety not because they didn't once have the passion but that they had to give up or quit for their own survival. The system doesn't encourage thought about what happens to the women and their families before they walk in the door let alone after they leave. Did you know that the NBV sees the following as warning signs that the nurse or midwife may be breaching professional boundaries and may need to seek professional guidance• frequent thinking of the patient while away from work • seeing the patient for an out of hours appointment at a venue when no other staff are present • self-disclosure of information of a personal nature to a patient • undue concern about meeting expectations of the patient or family • feelings of personal responsibility for patient progress • awareness of greater irritation if system delays patient progress how ridiculous is this because I for one cant switch off the minute I leave the place and often worry about the havoc that has been created in women's lives and that I know the system offers no resources to help them recover from it. I think everyone is with you on this but we need concrete suggestions that can be incorporated into the system we have while we keep fighting to change it. Any suggestions. Should all women have a follow up appointment with the midwife who was at her birth, is this appropriate as they may have been part of the problem, should all women have a follow up appointment but the woman be allowed to choose who she wants the appointment with, at what stage would this be appropriate, 2 weeks, 8 weeks 3 months? How does this fit with the MCH nurses who are now involved in the woman's on going care? How does her doctor, be it her own GP, obst or the one who attended (or not) her birth be involved in this? I ( and probably lots of others on this list) am listeningAndrea QauanchiOn 03/02/2006, at 11:30 PM, Janet Fraser wrote:Jo, you're speaking from my heart as well. I was at a meeting last year of women working to support others in birth trauma. All of us had been suicidal at one point, myself included, none of us had had any support from careproviders.I'm always happy to share my journey but it rarely scores a comment on ozmid. What this means I cannot judge but it makes me fear for other women in my position if we can't talk about it with careproviders. It's not about blame, it's about responsibility for our actions as consumers and a hope that our careproviders will also take responsibility for their actions. We really need everyone to be be truly "with woman" on this one, not with protocol and not with status quo.J- Original Message -From: Dean JoTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:43 PMSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Post cs supportI think it is ESSENTIAL for midwives and consumer groups to be working together on this one. Amazingly enough, many complaints we hear about are from women who feel their midwife let them down. Interesting issue (as I am a doula also, perception and expectation of support is of great interest). Most would agree with the fragmented care currently offered there is a huge reliance on trusting someone who has just walked in the door. anyone caring for a woman tries to do their best; but their best may not correspond with the woman's needs, even the 'nicest' midwife can upset
Re: [ozmidwifery] Post cs support
Yeh, Janet but how do we make talking therapies available to the women who need them and who do you see is the person who should be providing this 'therapy' and whenAndreaOn 04/02/2006, at 11:19 AM, Janet Fraser wrote:I remember it but I disagree with it entirely. It struck me as no more logical and useful than the obstetric refusal to offer OFP because a study showing a crude, almost silly form of it didn't have the desired effect. (10mins a day on hands and knees rather than the lifestyle operation that is true OFP)Talking therapies are pretty much the only "cure" for PTSD and that's been well demonstrated over and over. The one study showing otherwise holds no weight.J- Original Message -From: Mary MurphyTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 10:58 AMSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Post cs supportI believe there is some research out there that looked at de-briefing women after birth, particularly traumatic births. As I remember it, the research did not show that this debriefing had particularly helpful outcomes. Of course it is all in the Who, the When and the How. Does anyone remember it? Mary Murphy Andrea wrote:Any suggestions. Should all women have a follow up appointment with the midwife who was at her birth, is this appropriate as they may have been part of the problem, should all women have a follow up appointment but the woman be allowed to choose who she wants the appointment with, at what stage would this be appropriate, 2 weeks, 8 weeks 3 months? How does this fit with the MCH nurses who are now involved in the woman's on going care? How does her doctor, be it her own GP, obst or the one who attended (or not) her birth be involved in this?
Re: [ozmidwifery] internet
No the list has never been private and anyone can get hold of anything that is on any chat list in the world and pass it on to whom ever they please including the persons or organisations that people are talking about whether directly or indirectly and we all need to remember this when we submit to the list.thats the internet for youAndrea QuanchiOn 04/02/2006, at 11:48 AM, Sylvia Boutsalis wrote: Hi all, My cousin told me she recently googled our name "Boutsalis" and came up with quite a few hits. So out of curiosity I did it just yesturday on both yahoo and google. Do you know that my questions to Ozmid came up on the search? I thought this list is private and yet the questions I had about hair dye and baby poo came up? Would anyone else like to try their own names to see what happens. I didn't check other names because you know what you wrote better than I do. We express some radical views on the list and wouldn't want anyone getting into trouble. Are the moderators aware of this...Andrea? Sylvia BoutsalisAdelaide
Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management
If anyone has been to captain cooks cottage in Melbourne which was his childhood home that was transported from england you will note that the ceilings and doors are very low. The average height of men then was less than 5 feet. As a species humans are getting taller with each generation. We accept that animals gestation period gets longer as the animals get larger so why do we expect that humans gestation period is stagnant. Naegele was right in 1838 for women in 1838 but is not relevent for women in 2006 who are on average a foot taller than Andrea Q On 02/02/2006, at 1:16 AM, Vedrana Valčić wrote: And this one: The current due-date predictor -- Naegele's Rule -- was devised in 1838 by Franz Carl Naegele and has been used by obstetricians around the world for more than 150 years. Naegele's Rule is based on the belief that human gestation is 10 lunar cycles (nine months plus seven days), not on empirical data. http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/961107/pregnancy.shtml Vedrana -Original Message- From: Vedrana Valčić Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:13 PM To: 'ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au' Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management My favourite is this one: The length of uncomplicated human gestation. Mittendorf R, Williams MA, Berkey CS, Cotter PF. Department of Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts. By retrospective exclusion of gestations with known obstetric complications, maternal diseases, or unreliable menstrual histories, we found that uncomplicated, spontaneous-labor pregnancy in private-care white mothers is longer than Naegele's rule predicts. For primiparas, the median duration of gestation from assumed ovulation to delivery was 274 days, significantly longer than the predicted 266 days (P = .0003). For multiparas, the median duration of pregnancy was 269 days, also significantly longer than the prediction (P = .019). Moreover, the median length of pregnancy in primiparas proved to be significantly longer than that for multiparas (P = .0032). Thus, this study suggests that when estimating a due date for private-care white patients, one should count back 3 months from the first day of the last menses, then add 15 days for primiparas or 10 days for multiparas, instead of using the common algorithm for Naegele's rule. Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wump fish Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 12:55 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management Perhaps we need to get away from due dates altogether. Instead of giving women an edd, maybe saying that if your baby has not arrived by x date we can discuss various options. I agree, that when we give women a particular date they fix on it. As do their family and friends = lots of pressure as the date comes and goes. Doesn't matter how much we tell them the 38-42wk thing - they are aiming for that 40wk due date. From: Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 22:03:16 +1100 It really does and the overwhelming focus on the 40 week mark means that women are freaking out by 40+3 convinced they'll never go into labour and really upset and angry. There's no point saying term is 38-42, you're quite ok because they have the fear of god in them about the mythical 40+10 which means induction. Bloody terrible! It was so different planning a home birth and just floating about high on endorphins knowing no one was going to hassle me. Too many women, ie the majority, really miss out on this. We need that ridiculous compulsory induction before 42 weeks to just end. I'm so tired of giving postdates info to women at 39 weeks who are already being pressured by their hospital because If you don't go into labour by x date we will induce you! Who can labour with that hanging over them? J - Original Message - From: Dean Jo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:49 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Resounding failure of active labour management The issue faced by women when they go post dates has a huge impact on things. I wonder if women were to celebrate and cherish the last few days of being pregnant instead of feeling 'fed up' - if women did not hear from anyone (and usually everyone) the comment of are you still here love? or the best one: You still here, my gawd you are huge! If women were told they look beautiful, if women were given social 'approval' to be pampered; to internalize; to value the last few days then perhaps more women would go into labour without that desperate fed up notion that makes induction
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: OP
Have you a doll and pelvis model. I find that it really helps for the women to see what it is they are tring to achieve and then they can visualsie it better. I find many women that I see at the hospital ) not having 1 to 1 care are holding everything quite tight in their pelvis. Once I get the doll and pelvis out. Show them what their pelvis looks like when it is forwards and backwards and how this is for the baby. Then I get down on the floor and demonstrate what I mean by giving the baby lots of room to move and then send them home to do it, then sleep eat etc then do it again and have sex etc.. Funnily enough they seem to come back in established labour with the baby LOA Dont seem to have an issue with my private clients as we incorporate the information earlier. Andrea Q On 27/01/2006, at 6:14 PM, meg wrote: Could anyone describe the rebozo technique to me, as I am currentlly caring for a lovely primip with an OP, term plus, who has been niggling for a few days. We have been trying OFP, stair walking, chunning etc with no success. Thanks, Megan - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: OP Just to add to this, after talking about this the other night, I've been thinking a bit about it too. Obviously an awareness of positioning of the baby is beneficial, but I'm with you Jo, too much emphasis on this, and not enough practical applications, or answers to the questions, and it becomes an unhealthy obsession... Having said that, I'd be keen to try the Rebozo technique next time a persistent OP labour comes my way, (or should I say, a baby in a persistent OP position), but how? I understand the how of how to use the rebozo, but what about how long? And do I then need to keep checking by palp the position of the baby, to determine whether it's been effective? All sounds like a lot of disruption to the normal birthing process, and I'm not sure under what circumstances I'd be happy to instigate all this intervention... Any ideas from those more experienced? Tania x -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Jo Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2006 5:28 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: OP Thanks Nancy, Having had 2 stubborn OP babies myself I lived and breathed the Optimal Fetal Positioning for the second child. Interestingly I didn’t get so hung up on it the third time and that was the only babe who was OA. Must say that there is a danger sometimes in being too obsessed with doing the 'right' thing. What I am interested in though, is rationale for stubborn OP babies and the premature pushing urge. How does a woman who has laboured in a bath upright during all her labour overcome this problem? I have had an experience where one woman whose baby was LOA during the last weeks of pregnancy, turned OP during an active upright drug free labour and then after 22 hours turned only to have the fetal heart rate plummet resulting in CS. During the last 4 hours the urge to push was overwhelming and she was 6cm...lots of swelling and molding of baby head. Would this be why it took so long to turn? How do you avoid this? Is this common or is it indicative to a type of pelvis?? Need to dig deeper than just optimizing positions. I know babies can and do birth fully OP but the links with premature pushing urge is of interest to me. Thanks Jo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nancy San Martin Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:56 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] RE: OP Hi Jo, Have you read any of Jean Sutton's work? She wrote a book called Optimal Fetal Positioning in which she describes all about OP causes and prevention. She also designed a Pregnancy Rocker to aid in the prevention of OP from 34 weeks onward. Any more info about the Pregnancy rocker ...email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards, Nancy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean Jo Sent: Monday, 16 January 2006 3:39 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] References required Could someone point me in the direction on further information about stubborn OP presentations and the links with premature pushing urges? Much appreciated Jo -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/229 - Release Date: 1/13/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.20/234 -
Re: [ozmidwifery] dive reflex
very subtle andrea R, you should do more bragging about it than that as it is a great resource for the rest of us What she means mike is that she wrote it and you can buy it from her webstore. Andrea Q On 26/01/2006, at 7:58 AM, Andrea Robertson wrote: You'll find the details here: http://www.birthinternational.com/product/ace/bk400.html Regards Andrea At 10:14 AM 25/01/2006, you wrote: On 1/23/06, Ken WArd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you got The Midwife Companion? This book is my bible. Maureen Can you tell me the author of this book. rgds mike My photos online @ http://community.webshots.com/user/mike1962nz My Group online @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PSP_for_Photographers Life is a sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality and birth is as safe as life gets. Unknown -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. - Andrea Robertson Director Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage
This is such a poor excuse because you are hopefully not inserting the thermometer far enough to prove that the baby has a continuous gut with no obstructions. The only proof of this is passage of meconium. Baby's that have meconium ileus will have perforate anus' but still have a obstructed bowel. I too have picked up a imperforate anus that was missed by 48 hours worth of midwives looking after a baby but I didnt need ot attempt to put a thermometer up his bum to tell I just needed to look. Recently we had a baby with very delayed passage of meconium and sometimes this can be stimulated by insertion of a rectal thermometer but I chose instead to give the baby a bit of anal massage which assisted it to pass a very sticky mecoium plug which I was surprised to hear that many of my colleagues had never seen before. Andrea On 24/01/2006, at 9:03 AM, sharon wrote: at the hospital i work in the paediatrician/neonatologist inisit on all newborns have a rectal temp done for the first temp. i have been told when questioning this from the clinical learning co-ordinator that there once was a baby who had a imperferated anus and this was not picked up until too late and the baby became very sick so it is protocol. also i was told that there is a difference in temperature as when i looked this subject up for my own interest if you take a temp axilla there is also many other factors which come into play such as the air temp and if the thermometer is accurately placed. the references i cant remember but the evidence suggested that for a accurate reading we should be taking temperatures rectally for infants and orally for adults not axilla and certainly not be the fold at the back of the newborns neck. regards - Original Message - From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:11 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage How amazing, rectal temps are so archaic ! I thought they went out with PR exams to assess dilation. Poor you ! Keep questioning, that's how change happenseventually. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Kylie Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage All debates regarding active v. physiological third stage aside, I was referring to women who have had a jelco put in for whatever reason (IV antibiotics in labour, epidurals, etc). I completely agree with you Brenda, that the number of women who didn't get their required dose of synto and who go on and have a (semi) physiological third stage are evidence in favour of safe, normal 3rd stage. Unfortuately this particular hospital doesn't take too kindly to students coming in and questioning their protocols! We learnt that the hard way when we (as students) tried not to take babies first temps rectally...a protocol was soon put in place that this MUST occur! Kylie From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:18:48 +1100 Kylie, We are presuming these are all high risk women you are dealing with as otherwise there would be no need for her to have a jelco in place ? I am including women who have epidurals in this category as this automatically makes them high risk once they've deviated from the 'body driven' course of labour. Otherwise... Why would a low risk woman : a. have a jelco in situ during labour ? b. need an oxytocic ? So assuming she is high risk you need to be very sure she gets the oxytocic, she really needs it as her body has had its input overridden by the initial intervention so it makes sense to flush the tubing ensure the accurate therapeutic dose is received. Maybe you might put some thought out there in your workplace about how all those women whose MW didn't flush they therefore didn't actually get their synt (or got a reduced/minimal amount) managed to have a normal 3rd stage no PPHs ? Now there's an interesting question to ask your colleagues !! With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au - Original Message - From: Ceri Katrina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] IV Synto for 3rd stage Hi Kylie we actually give 5IU synto diluted in 10mls Normal saline, then flush that through with a flush. In the short time I have been in Middy even when we gave it not diluted, it was still flushed. katrina ;-) On 22/01/2006, at 2:20 PM, Ken WArd wrote: Proberly where it should sit for a normal birth. But when it is advisable to give synto, then I guess you should flush the line.
Re: [ozmidwifery] sonicaid
Huntleigh Health Care I know the have an office in Melbourne and can be found through the white pages if not the internet Andrea Quanchi On 20/01/2006, at 6:03 PM, Mary Murphy wrote: x-tad-biggerHi, I am looking for a contact or company who sells sonicaid hand held dopplers in any state of Australia or even the British home base. Thanks, MM/x-tad-bigger
Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms
I had a look at this web site and found her story at http://www.nandu.hu/Magyar/Szules/HU_MW3.htm absolutely amazing and well worth the read Andrea Q On 21/01/2006, at 4:23 AM, Vedrana Valčić wrote: x-tad-biggerPaivi,/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggeryou might want to ask Andrea Noll, a Hungarian midwife, for photos of her homebirth. You can see them at /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerhttp://www.nandu.hu/English/Childbirth/chbmain.htm/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerVedrana/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerOn Behalf Of /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerpinky mckay/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:50 PM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerPaivi,/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerhere are two beauiful birth centres I visited while in New Zealand last year. Any woman is funded to go there with her own midwife. River-ridge is a beautiful building desgned by a steiner/ anthroposophical' architect - lovely scultures in small private gardens that can be entered from the rooms and Waterford is more 'corporate'. Both are freestanding/ not attached to hospitals./x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerhttp://www.riverridgeeastbc.co.nz//x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerhttp://www.waterfordbc.co.nz/waterford/index.php?ctnt=about.php/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerBest wishes with your project,/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerPinky/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerPäivi Laukkanen/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Friday, January 20, 2006 5:17 AM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerWow, It would be more than terrific to get their story in a local magazine. Is there any way you could hook me up with them?/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerPäivi/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerjesse/jayne/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:49 PM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerPaivi (sorry, I can't do the accents!)/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerI am some friends (sisters) from Finland living in Australia that birthed at home - in Australia though. Isn't that strange?!/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerCheers,/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerJayne/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerPäivi Laukkanen/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:54 AM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerAbsolutely! I plan to show hospital rooms, birthing centre rooms and home. Unfortunately the Birthing Centre consept is not even known about in Finland and we only have some 20 homebirths a year but I am trying to awaken some interest by showing pictures of something we don't really associate with birth over here.../x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerPäivi/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerjesse/jayne/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:09 AM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [ozmidwifery] Photos of beautifull birthing rooms/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerCan I suggest some pictures of the most mother/baby friendly? That would have to be ~home~ :)/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerCheers/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerJayne/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerPäivi Laukkanen/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger
Re: [ozmidwifery] Syringe for sub-cut Heparin?
This injection is only 0.2 mls and so if you give it in a 2 ml syringe the dead space is more than that so common sense says this is not a good idea and thus I have never even looked for a policy regarding it. Can you imagine anyone researching this because measuring the dead space would tell you it wont work. try putting a measure amount in any syringe and then push it up until fluid comes out of the syringe and needle. If you draw up 0.2 mls and then push till the dead space is eliminated in a 2 ml syringe it will not fill the dead space. Therefore the smallest syringe available is the best option and in most cases this would be a 0.5 ml insulin syringe. I havent had a look at the product info it probably gives a recommendatiion. Andrea Q On 20/01/2006, at 11:18 AM, Sadie wrote: Hi Wise Women, Is anyone working with a hospital policy regarding the size of syringe to be used when giving a sub cut Heparin 5000 iu injection? If so what is the research behind it. Cheers, Sadie
Re: [ozmidwifery] What are Buist's pads?
Gloria I just got the book out to re read the section you are talking about, pg 45 in my book ofr anyone interested, but I think it just the name they use for the combination of a binder and two towels used as described to try and encourage the uterus to be more upright in women who have a serious split in their rectus shealth and therefore the uterus is hanging forward into the gap. Often these women fail to establish labour because the baby is not putting pressure on the cerix. They often niggle on and off repeatedly and doing as described is often enough so that during the next run of contractions they establish rather than wain again. If you want to ask Pauline Scott I have her email Andrea Quanchi On 08/01/2006, at 7:20 AM, Gloria Lemay wrote: This is mentioned in Optimal Fetal Positioning. Can anyone tell a Canadian what they are? Gloria in Vancouver, BC Canada
[ozmidwifery] article in our local paper today
This was in our local paper today and I thought you might be interested. I sent them an email over a month ago when I received a copy of the report and it took till now for it to appear. Andrea Quanchi http://rivheraldechuca.net/story.asp?TakeNo=200601066155153 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] belly dancing midwives:)
I make a point of treating myself to an appointment with my network chiropractor after each birth I attend as I too encourage the woman to choose her place/ position of birth and find my lower back is tight the next day. I generally have no problems this way. He always knows how many births I have attended by how frequently I am coming. I think despite all the hands off advice that assisting women with breast feeding is rough on your back as well. Both require you to use both hands away from your body at weitd angles. Andrea Q On 04/01/2006, at 10:58 AM, Julie Garratt wrote: Hi all, I've just started work as a midwife and I think I need some exercise to strengthen my back, feeling a bit stiff after catching babies in the shower, bath, floor, birth stool ect. I think it is a sustainability issue of practice, a good strong back. I don't ever want my physical ability to dictate how a woman wants to birth. Anyone tried pilates or belly dancing? Any other good suggestions? Ta Julie:)
Re: [ozmidwifery] testing
I think it is just the christmas new year lull Andrea On 02/01/2006, at 12:47 AM, Susan Cudlipp wrote: I seem to be missing some posts - has the list been very quiet? Very few posts in the past few weeks, and some that are replies but I never recieved the originals Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] hello?
must be the later because I got your email Andrea Q On 19/12/2005, at 9:05 PM, diane wrote: is the list down or is everyone too busy xmas shopping? Merry Xmas to you all if there is anyone out there! Di
Re: [ozmidwifery] terms to express practice
I would think this would be a description of what you do, ie a description of caseload and what it means to you and the women. Perhaps send an email to Pat Brodie or Sally Tracey and ask them. Andrea Quanchi On 16/12/2005, at 12:30 PM, Mary Murphy wrote: x-tad-biggerI am needing to address the ACMI competency standards and find it hard to express how I : 2.1 Uses a clinical approach to provide holisitic midwifery care; How does one express that succinctly and accurately? Thanks in advance. Mary M/x-tad-bigger
Re: [ozmidwifery] Peaceful birth
Congratulations to you all, Mum, Dad, Kids, midwives etc Andrea Q On 06/12/2005, at 11:05 PM, Justine Caines wrote: Dear All Here’s the news and even a little pic! Thank you all so much for your lovely wishes! JC xx http://au.geocities.com/homebirthau/twins.html
Re: [ozmidwifery] RM birth announcement:)
well done Julie Andrea Q On 05/12/2005, at 5:41 PM, Julie Garratt wrote: Well I am happy to announce the safe arrival of my university transcript closely followed by my registration and cute little badge after a three year labour at Flinders university. Many thanks to the midwives, my fellow students, lecturers and the BMid collective and Ozmid list for their help and support. I start work on an early at Mt Barker Hospital tomorrow and I cant wait. Yarho! Julie Garratt RM :)
Re: [ozmidwifery] Litigation/Insurance issue
So Share, we're listening (well reading anyway) On 30/11/2005, at 2:41 PM, Rosetta Timpano - Asset Protection Consultant wrote: Hi, my name is Rosetta and I would like to share with you some info on how to get around the Litigation/Insurance issue, especially when there is no insurance available to Indepedent Midwives. Regards Rosetta Timpano [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] POP statistics
As a part of some research I was doing ( and still haven't written up) I think I have every article ever written on OP. Very little research has ever been done on the subject and what has been done is on very small numbers until Kariminia, Chamberlain, Keogh and Shea (2004) whose study was of 2547 women. This article quotes 10-25% of all babies in early labour are OP and 10-15% in active labour, and 6% persistant POP in second stage. Most of the research done has been to see whether getting the mothers to adopt hands and knees positions daily for eg 10 minutes twice a day reduces the incidence of OP at the onset of labour and the answer is no. The difference in what Sutton and Scott (1996) suggest is that they encourage a life style change and encourages the woman to adopt knees lower than hips/pelvis tilted forward positions all the time in their daily activities. I agree with Sue that I rarely see OP in woman who understand and adopt this practice. I have a couple of ergonomic stools ( similar to the rocker recommended by Sutton Scott but without the rockers) that I lend to women in the last weeks of pregnancy and find that with these they are so comfy they use them all the time in preference over other seating and dont have a problem. A lot of other midwives I know recommend to women that they sit on balls but I find that unless the balls are big enough / inflated enough the women are rocking away on them with their pelvis tilted back to balance themselves. I use my balls alot in labour but use the stools antenatally. My pilot study was not big enough to show results and thus I acknowledge that all recommendations to women are based on anecdotal evidence and not research. Andrea Quanchi On 28/11/2005, at 9:42 AM, Janet Fraser wrote: I'm fascinated to hear you don't see any, Sue, because there seems to be an epidemic in the hospy system and it's rapidly becoming an excuse to c-sec like breech. Great work you're doing! : ) J x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerSue Cookson/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:53 PM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [ozmidwifery] POP statistics/x-tad-bigger Hi Brenda, Just been taught that 5% stay OP of the 10-15% that present as OP. NO research to support that, only texts. Other stats suggest that up to 20% births begin as OP - Jean Sutton's optimum positioning info. Hope this helps, I haven't seen an OP in 23 years of homebirths - pretty careful with positions in pregnancy and info to help mums to rotate their babies prior to labour. Sue Information seeking.. please ozmidders Does anyone have stats (or know where to access them) on the percentage of posterior babies who rotate during labour or whilst birthing ? Esp relevant to Mg with SVDs previously ? How many babies actually remain OP do ore don't obstruct how many rotate birth spontaneously ? Any help greatly appreciated. With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au
Re: [ozmidwifery] question
You only have to watch the colour change to the head to know whether circulation is compromised or not. Some ( most ) babies stay pink and or only slightly dusky but others go almost navy blue and even get subconjuntival haemorrhages similar to those that occur in hanging victims which to me indicates that circulation to the head has been compromised for at least some time. Babies can tolerate this for a period but eventually it must have an effect. Just from observation I would say this has little to do with cord compression but compression of the foetal neck by maternal structures which would occur more severely in true shoulder dystocia. Of course prevention is better than cure and encouraging 25% increase in space within the maternal pelvis is likely to reduce the number of cases where this will be a problem. Andrea Quanchi On 17/11/2005, at 4:02 PM, Susan Cudlipp wrote: Good point Anne! I did quite a thorough search last night and have printed off some good articles which I will pass on. However I could not find the answer to why EXACTLY babies die in shoulder dystocia. If it is asphyxia, then (obs point of view) this proves that the cord is not sustaining them. The ob said to me that if the cord WERE sustaining them there would be no urgency to deliver the body, also quoted from the ALSO course that the fetal Ph drops 0.04 (?) per minute after delivery of head therefor we should not be waiting for restitution but delivering body ASAP. (I didn't even go there!!) My feeling is that it is more to do with probable cord compression, (although I cannot picture why this should necessarily be so as the body and hence, presumably, the cord, would still be above the pelvic brim) and trauma to the neck usually caused by mis-management (panic) in trying to deliver the shoulders than asphyxia, but it is true that they become asphyxiated within a short time if truly stuck. Any answers on that one? Thanks Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerAnne Clarke/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:54 AM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [ozmidwifery] question/x-tad-bigger Dear Susan, You could say to them if this is so why do they rely so much on cord ph's ? One would think when the baby was born and the pulsating cord was still not supplying the baby effectively the cord blood (venous and arterial) was null and void to provide an estimation of oxygenation for the babe. Regards Anne Clarke Queensland x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerSusan Cudlipp/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggermidwifery list/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Wednesday, November 16, 2005 9:30 PM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger [ozmidwifery] question/x-tad-bigger I have a question for you wise ozmidders. I was having a discussion today with one of our obstetricians regarding cord clamping, and the benefits to the baby of delaying this until pulsations cease. When I mentioned the benefit of the baby recieving oxygenated blood via the pulsating cord which could assist it's transition to independent respiration particularly if it was compromised (etc etc) the obs was of the view that the pulsations could NOT be providing oxygenated blood because the uterus would have contracted down and the placenta could no longer be getting oxygen from mother's circulation. Now I know that I have read reams on this and this is stated to be one of the benefits, but I could not answer that particular question physiologically and convincingly. The point was also raised that in shoulder dystocia, babies die of asphyxiation, which (obs opinion) would not happen if they were recieving oxygen via the cord. I did print off George Morley's excellent papers for this Dr to read but would very much welcome anything that can show that the baby would still be receiving oxygenated blood post birth. TIA Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke __ NOD32 1.1289 (20051116) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.3/173 - Release Date: 16/11/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] question from Year 10 student
I have searched through Maternal, Fetal and Neonatal Physiology (Blackburn Loper) and cant find anything helpful Andrea Q On 08/11/2005, at 9:54 AM, wump fish wrote: This made me laugh. It is just the kind of question my son (year 9) would come up with. I haven't even thought about it! I would go with the fluid and equal pressure theory. Being upside down in water at an adult (try it) does not result in the same pressure as being upside down outside water. However, if we go with this theory - what happens when women rupture their membranes. We know it has a variety of effects on labour and the baby. But, does it also make it less comfortable for baby due to being upside down? Just thinking aloud. I would love someone to find some evidence on this. Rachel From: Bowman Family [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] question from Year 10 student Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 20:10:21 +1100 I am involved in the CoreOf Life Program for Year 10 students. It is a fun and interactive program run over a double period and is about the journey through pregnancy, labour birth and parenting. Last week when I was demonstrating positioning with doll pelvis one of the boys asked how come the blood doesn't rush to the baby's head like it does for us if we are upside down I didn't know the correct answer and said I would get back to him. It possibly is obvious but I have asked a few peers and no-one is definite they have the correct answer. I thought I would throw it open to OzMidwifery for discussion. Linda _ The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] ANF article
try the anf web site at www.anf.org.au but I think it is only editorials and clinical updates that are on line. In Vic it is part of our subsciption so you need to get onto your branch although maybe we pay extra for the privilage. In Vic we pay $449 / year for those working > 24 hours per week. Andrea Quanchi On 03/11/2005, at 12:45 AM, Denise Hynd wrote: WA ANF members have to pay extra for the ANJ So can you tell me if we can access the article on the net ? Thanks Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. — Linda Hes x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerLarissa Inns/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:57 AM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger [ozmidwifery] ANF article/x-tad-bigger Those of you who are ANF members and receive the ANJ there is a great article (3 pages!) in this months issue by Fiona Armstrong titled The fight to care and it's all about women having the right to choose midwifery care. Well worth a read. Hugs, Larissa No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.7/156 - Release Date: 2/11/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] 'Breech birth woman wise'
Tina, Well done and we can all only aspire to more of these experiences Andrea Quanchi On 19/10/2005, at 6:15 PM, Tina Pettigrew wrote: Hi everyone, tis me againjust wanted to share with you that last Friday while I was working in our family birthing unit I had the most awesome of experiences.. being midwife for a woman with an undiagnosed breech birthWoo Hoo!!! Poor Janine and my fellow midwives at Geelong have had to put up with me walking around with a smile too big for my facesimply one of the most awesome births I have witnessed as this strong and powerful woman birthed her breech baby in the standing position.The baby, a frank breech, just birthed beautifully into my and the woman's third year B Mid follow thru students handsIt was truly and all BMid affair, with the birthing woman herself a 3rd year BMid student!!! What also adds to the splendor of this birth was that unbeknown to the BMid student and I, the consultant obstetrican did make into the birth but just kept quiet and stood at the back of the room and watched as we facilitated the birth (well we did nothing really as 'hands off the breech' came flooding back from my midwifery education) we just supported/reassured and held the space for the woman who stood strong and powerful and breathed out her baby daughter.I can't stop smiling as on reflection I can't believe that this OB got to witness 'breech birth woman wise'a totally midwifery approach to breech birth!! The baby was born in good condition, Apgars of 6 at 1 and 9 at 5...a quick check over by the paed and she was straight back into her mothers armsthe birth topped off with a wonderful physiological third stage!! For those of you close to me, you know that I have had a rough trot the past few months with my midwiferybut such experiences as this help to restore one's faith in the 'power of woman' and reignite the spark that fuels the flame of my passion for midwifery and woman's innate knowlege and wisdom to birth. Trusting in the process of birth, women, and our skills as midwives has always been at the core of my midwifery philosophy...to truly work in partnership with women and trust in their innate abilities to birth safely and joyously is a totally empowering experience...not just for the woman but also for the midwife!!! Maggie Bank's book 'breech birth woman wise' has taken on a whole new meaning for meI continue to be amazed at what woman teach us if we are just humble enough to watch and listen. Yours in reforming midwifery, Tina Pettigrew.
Re: [ozmidwifery] support people in OT
Thats where the bed works so well as you have heaps more room, the woman is much more relaxed as she isnt worried that she'll roll off, squash her bub or expose her backside to the whole room. I agree in this situation its more important to get bub on quickly as the poor things have been waiting so long that they are getting over it than worrying about hands off. Andrea Q On 18/10/2005, at 9:57 PM, Carol Van Lochem wrote: We do the samething where i work, except for bringing the bed into recovery. It's a good idea though. I usually manage to assist the mother to BF in recovery, but it takes a little imagiantion sometimes (not to mention no Hands Off Technique) especially with the larger ladies on those tiny trollies with a full spinal block! Carol x-tad-smallerFrom: /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerAndrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED]>/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerReply-To: /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerTo: /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerSubject: /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerRe: [ozmidwifery] support people in OT/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerDate: /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerTue, 18 Oct 2005 15:17:11 +1000/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>Where I work we count women having a LUSCS whether elective or emerg /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>as being in labour and therefore 1:1 under the ANF ratios. The /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>midwife admits goes to theatre and stays there until mum is ready to /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>go to recovery, goes there with her and the rest of the family and /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>stays until they return to the ward. The orderlies bring her bed to /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>theatre and she is moved from the theatre table onto her bed and /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>positioned on her side to facilitate BF. I usually try to get them /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>almost diagonally across the bed so that the baby when close to her /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>tummy needs to extend its head to take the breast. BF nearly always /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>happens in recovery and baby returns to ward in bed with mum. Its /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>a matter of planning and we take the paper work with us so that we /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>too sit in the corner doing it while mum and dad play with bub./x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>We do have a policy of only one support person in theatre and during /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>the day the NUM of the OT had been know to enforce adherence to this /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>even when the doctos have agreed to let more people in but after /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>hours - well what they don't know doesn't hurt them./x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>AQ/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>On 18/10/2005, at 11:59 AM, Ceri Katrina wrote:/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>As yet we don't routinely get the recovery time happening. Midwife, /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>dad and baby meet mum back on the ward after recovery.../x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>It is usually only when we have a quieter time or lots of staff, or /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>nice recovery staff that we can get into recovery. Hopefully this /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>will change in the future/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>Katrina/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>smallnps2.jpg>/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>www.niagaraparkshow.com.au/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>On 18/10/2005, at 8:34 AM, Cheryl LHK wrote:/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>Thanks, it does sound rather crowded doesn't it?/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>We had the em LUSCS at 2330 on the weekend (pretty normal time/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>isn't it?) and I had just come on for the night. Hubby and Mum /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>had been there the whole day with her, obstructed labour at fully. /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>> Primep. So I went and saw her GP and asked him if he had a /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>problem with Mum coming in as well. So the GP anaes sat them up /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>near Mum's head after her spinal, and babe came out screeching, so /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>he was wrapped and I plonked myself inbetween the anaes machine /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>and GP surgeon and held baby beside her face so he could nuzzle /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>her and hubby/Nanna (now) had cuddles, then we all trotted out to /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>recovery and bub went straight into bed with Mum, BF /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>beautifully... it was quite a pleasant night all round actually. /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>> I just sat warming myself at the resusataire doing the paperwork /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller>>>watching this gorgeous family chattering away and just enjoying
Re: [ozmidwifery] private health insurance rebate
No They no nothing about me and have not asked Andrea Quanchi On 18/10/2005, at 11:56 PM, brendamanning wrote: Andrea, Do you have a provider number with HBA ? With kind regards Brenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au x-tad-bigger- Original Message -/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerAndrea Quanchi/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerMaternity Coalition/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerCc:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerozmidwifery/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSent:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Tuesday, October 18, 2005 3:47 PM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger [ozmidwifery] private health insurance rebate/x-tad-bigger Just for the interest of those in this discussion earier last month. The client who supplied the contact name at HBA has birthed and she sent my whole receipt to HBA ( at the end of the pregnancy after they have paid I give them a receipt for the whole thing with a/n, labour, p/n visits all itemised so that it is easy to claim for the ATO) She sent this to HBA and they refunded her the whole thing! $2,715. She is more than happy so keep those claims going in. I have included the layout for the successful receipt fo anyone interested and it was on my letterhead. Andrea Quanchi Official Receipt Date: Name: For: Antenatal care during pregnancy between xx/xx/05 - x/xx/05 10 visits (10 hrs 15 min) $xxx.00 For: Attendance during labour and birth xx/xx/05 - xx/xx/05 24 hours $:00 For: Postnatal care between xx/xx/05 - xx/xx/05 10 visits (15 hours) $xxx:00 Total $:00
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
I cant imagine any animal doing this as it would be too dangerous. A dragging placenta would attract to many predators and one sitting in a nest or a den would be attractive to flies etc which would bring their own problems. Andrea Quanchi On 18/10/2005, at 11:01 PM, Vedrana Valčić wrote: Just being curious, does anyone know what other mammals do? I suppose they cut the cord with their teeth, but I don't know when. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tania Smallwood Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:34 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth Here here Belinda! This notion that anyone has the right to allow or disallow women to do or not do anything when it comes to their birth, is just not cricket! Before we start debating the semantics of lotus birth, we need to all be going in to bat for women and their right to birth the way they need and want to. If this means wearing a polka dotted clown suit, or singing Dixie at the top of her voice, (or God forbid, not cutting the cord), and that's what she truly needs to be able to birth in her own way, then we need to respect that! Now that's enough from me for tonight... Tania Xx PS I have a copy of Shivam Rachana's Lotus Birth book, very interesting, lots of gorgeous photos, and certainly made me think twice before cutting the cord of my babies, we ended up leaving it for a few hours and then it just seemed right for us to cut, but I can see how and why for some families it just seems right to leave it. A bit like birth, if all's well, leave well alone... -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] support people in OT
Where I work we count women having a LUSCS whether elective or emerg as being in labour and therefore 1:1 under the ANF ratios. The midwife admits goes to theatre and stays there until mum is ready to go to recovery, goes there with her and the rest of the family and stays until they return to the ward. The orderlies bring her bed to theatre and she is moved from the theatre table onto her bed and positioned on her side to facilitate BF. I usually try to get them almost diagonally across the bed so that the baby when close to her tummy needs to extend its head to take the breast. BF nearly always happens in recovery and baby returns to ward in bed with mum. Its a matter of planning and we take the paper work with us so that we too sit in the corner doing it while mum and dad play with bub. We do have a policy of only one support person in theatre and during the day the NUM of the OT had been know to enforce adherence to this even when the doctos have agreed to let more people in but after hours - well what they don't know doesn't hurt them. AQ On 18/10/2005, at 11:59 AM, Ceri Katrina wrote: As yet we don't routinely get the recovery time happening. Midwife, dad and baby meet mum back on the ward after recovery... It is usually only when we have a quieter time or lots of staff, or nice recovery staff that we can get into recovery. Hopefully this will change in the future Katrina smallnps2.jpg> www.niagaraparkshow.com.au On 18/10/2005, at 8:34 AM, Cheryl LHK wrote: Thanks, it does sound rather crowded doesn't it? We had the em LUSCS at 2330 on the weekend (pretty normal time isn't it?) and I had just come on for the night. Hubby and Mum had been there the whole day with her, obstructed labour at fully. Primep. So I went and saw her GP and asked him if he had a problem with Mum coming in as well. So the GP anaes sat them up near Mum's head after her spinal, and babe came out screeching, so he was wrapped and I plonked myself inbetween the anaes machine and GP surgeon and held baby beside her face so he could nuzzle her and hubby/Nanna (now) had cuddles, then we all trotted out to recovery and bub went straight into bed with Mum, BF beautifully... it was quite a pleasant night all round actually. I just sat warming myself at the resusataire doing the paperwork watching this gorgeous family chattering away and just enjoying their new little man. I suppose being the small hospital, we don't have students, paeds' etc, and also a huge OT room. It's interesting what you say about GA's though. I'm sure our fathers are allowed in once the anaes is settled and she is draped, then they come in and sit with the midwife in the corner and get to hold the baby, go to recovery with baby and meet Mum there. I know personally one grandma who was at our hospital for both of her grandchildren's LUCSCs and in the OT with her camera!! She had a great time! Anyway, off for the school run Cheryl From: Ceri Katrina [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] support people in OT Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 13:00:33 +1000 HI Cheryl not sure if it is protocol as such, but at Gosford if it is an emergencey Code 1 LSCS, and the women is under a GA, then no support people are allowed in theatre at all. If it is a lesser code or elective, then the partner/husband can be present. I have not heard of more than this number. It gets pretty cramped by the time you have the Ob, registrar or/and resident, anaestheitist, anaesthetic nurse, scout nurse, and scrub nurse plus the midwife and midwife student if there is one. Plus we have the paeds present so there is at least 2 more doctors. If it is twins there is a paed and midwife for each baby.!!! Katrina :-) smallnps2.jpg >> www.niagaraparkshow.com.au On 17/10/2005, at 12:44 PM, Cheryl LHK wrote: Do any hospitals have set protocols on number of support people going to OT for LUSCS be they elective or emerg? Just interested. Cheryl -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
