Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
I wouldn't want to wear it out. Perhaps I'll put in a digital simulation of a bell to preserve the original... ;-) G On Oct 19, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Y. Rowe wrote: Please, ring it daily! If I may ring the Luddite bell, relying upon AF for critical focus is a foolish idea. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Please, ring it daily! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Godfrey DiGiorgi Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 09:52 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? If I may ring the Luddite bell, relying upon AF for critical focus is a foolish idea. Godfrey -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On 17/10/07, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed: (She's thrilled with the DOF scale next to the focusing ring.) Got her number ? ;-)) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/10/18 Thu AM 07:08:07 GMT To: pentax list PDML@pdml.net Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? On 17/10/07, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed: (She's thrilled with the DOF scale next to the focusing ring.) Got her number ? ;-)) He's already told you. 28/2.8 Pay attention at the back! - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Adam Maas wrote: William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? We were speaking of Rebel users. I'll bet nine out of ten use autofocus for everything. So we aren't speaking of people with lenses faster than f2.8 then, are we. William Robb Yeah, we are. Canon 50 f1.8's are the cheapest lens in the system, they run less than $80 USD new, and are a lens that many recommend to Canon owners as a must-have (Sharp, fastish, cheap, a good combo). And they're known to throw fits on Rebels with in-spec but marginal AF calibration. -Adam I know a lot of digiRebel users... none of them would EVER consider the 50/1.8. It doesn't zoom is the most often heard reason. sheesh. It is a noisy flimsy little lens, but wow, is it ever value for money. -- Christian http://photography.skofteland.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Christian wrote: Adam Maas wrote: William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? We were speaking of Rebel users. I'll bet nine out of ten use autofocus for everything. So we aren't speaking of people with lenses faster than f2.8 then, are we. William Robb Yeah, we are. Canon 50 f1.8's are the cheapest lens in the system, they run less than $80 USD new, and are a lens that many recommend to Canon owners as a must-have (Sharp, fastish, cheap, a good combo). And they're known to throw fits on Rebels with in-spec but marginal AF calibration. -Adam I know a lot of digiRebel users... none of them would EVER consider the 50/1.8. It doesn't zoom is the most often heard reason. sheesh. It is a noisy flimsy little lens, but wow, is it ever value for money. I think every digiRebel user I know has one. But both the camera groups I'm part of tend to recommend those things as the first lens to buy after the kit lens. Usually by the 'try mine' method. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
From: Adam Maas Cory Papenfuss wrote: Wow. Impressive thread. Let me know if I missed any controversies: - WR vs. JCO AND WR+JCO vs PDML. - Sensor sizes defying physical laws - Whether Pentax will ever release a FF-DSLR - Canikon vs. Pentax - Emacs vs. VI - Firefox vs. Internet Exploiter - Policitcal conservatism vs. liberalism. - Mac vs. PC. - A fish pun thread What'd I miss? -Cory Word vs Wordperfect. Ol' Miss vs. 'Bama ... Roll Tide! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On 10/18/07, John Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Adam Maas Cory Papenfuss wrote: Wow. Impressive thread. Let me know if I missed any controversies: - WR vs. JCO AND WR+JCO vs PDML. - Sensor sizes defying physical laws - Whether Pentax will ever release a FF-DSLR - Canikon vs. Pentax - Emacs vs. VI - Firefox vs. Internet Exploiter - Policitcal conservatism vs. liberalism. - Mac vs. PC. - A fish pun thread What'd I miss? -Cory Word vs Wordperfect. Ol' Miss vs. 'Bama ... Roll Tide! Let's make it really nasty: Football v''s Throwball (or whatever it is our North Americans friends call that incomprehensible game they play in armour) vbg Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On Oct 18, 2007, at 7:40 AM, Christian wrote: I know a lot of digiRebel users... none of them would EVER consider the 50/1.8. It doesn't zoom is the most often heard reason. sheesh. Yup. It is a noisy flimsy little lens, but wow, is it ever value for money. Bokeh is also very crappy, just like the rest of the lens. I tried one and tossed it back, bought the EF 50/1.4 instead. That's a much much better performer and is nicely built. Not as good as the Pentax 50/1.4, however, and a bit more expensive. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
When I was a Boy Scout, I made my own 4x5 pinhole camera from cardboard.Some folks have made them from those cylindrical Quaker Oatmeal boxes. An 8 year old can do this. Regards, Bob... Art is not a reflection of reality. it is the reality of a reflection. -Jean Luc Godard - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 5:26 PM Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? - Original Message - From: Bob Blakely Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Students should be required to make and use their first camera - a pinhole. After this, students should be required to use cameras without batteries. Camera won't work without batteries? Get one that does! Light meters should be forbidden until at least half way through the course. I know that your tongue is somewhat in cheek with this, but you aren't too far off the mark for what should be expected of photography students. The local tech college here is still issuing 4x5 cameras to students, and the Don has been bugging me recently to part with my mechanical cameras, which are quite in demand due to attrition. I wouldn't ask a student to build their own camera unless they were also in the carpentry program, as one skill isn't necessary for the other, but I wouldn't issue them zoom lenses ever, and if the course happened to include digital cameras, they would get a hobbled RAW converter and nothing else for post processing. Let the little bastards learn how to make their pictures without Photoshop. One of things I am being asked to do quite often at the shop is to fix pictures taken by supposed pros that should have been easy images to make if the person had a clue about what they were doing. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Oct 18, 2007, at 7:40 AM, Christian wrote: I know a lot of digiRebel users... none of them would EVER consider the 50/1.8. It doesn't zoom is the most often heard reason. sheesh. Yup. It is a noisy flimsy little lens, but wow, is it ever value for money. Bokeh is also very crappy, just like the rest of the lens. I tried one and tossed it back, bought the EF 50/1.4 instead. That's a much much better performer and is nicely built. Not as good as the Pentax 50/1.4, however, and a bit more expensive. Godfrey It's nowhere near perfect, but it's by far the best lens you can buy new for $75. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
- Original Message - From: Bob Blakely Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? When I was a Boy Scout, I made my own 4x5 pinhole camera from cardboard.Some folks have made them from those cylindrical Quaker Oatmeal boxes. An 8 year old can do this. I realize that. The one I made was from an elongated cardboard box used for delivering flowers. I wanted a telephoto camera, so thats what I made. I'm not sure if it benefited my learning or not, but I expect it was the first step towards buying some gloriously expensive big lenses. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Adam Maas wrote: Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Oct 18, 2007, at 7:40 AM, Christian wrote: I know a lot of digiRebel users... none of them would EVER consider the 50/1.8. It doesn't zoom is the most often heard reason. sheesh. Yup. It is a noisy flimsy little lens, but wow, is it ever value for money. Bokeh is also very crappy, just like the rest of the lens. I tried one and tossed it back, bought the EF 50/1.4 instead. That's a much much better performer and is nicely built. Not as good as the Pentax 50/1.4, however, and a bit more expensive. Godfrey It's nowhere near perfect, but it's by far the best lens you can buy new for $75. -Adam But you can get a used A 50mm from KEH for around $80.00 and Pentax USA still says they are current products, even if you can't seem to find them anywhere, (well almost anywhere, Milford Photo had a new one on their display shelf for $79.99 last time I was there). -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
P. J. Alling wrote: Adam Maas wrote: Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Oct 18, 2007, at 7:40 AM, Christian wrote: I know a lot of digiRebel users... none of them would EVER consider the 50/1.8. It doesn't zoom is the most often heard reason. sheesh. Yup. It is a noisy flimsy little lens, but wow, is it ever value for money. Bokeh is also very crappy, just like the rest of the lens. I tried one and tossed it back, bought the EF 50/1.4 instead. That's a much much better performer and is nicely built. Not as good as the Pentax 50/1.4, however, and a bit more expensive. Godfrey It's nowhere near perfect, but it's by far the best lens you can buy new for $75. -Adam But you can get a used A 50mm from KEH for around $80.00 and Pentax USA still says they are current products, even if you can't seem to find them anywhere, (well almost anywhere, Milford Photo had a new one on their display shelf for $79.99 last time I was there). And that's why I specified 'New'. An A 50/1.7 or 1.4 is definitely a better lens that an EF 50 1/.8. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA)?
In a message dated 10/16/2007 11:30:42 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Let's see: 1. Word Processing software 2. Political orientations 3. Sci Fi quotes 4. Some discussion of DSLR design. 5. Some name calling Yep, typical PDML thread. VBG Actually, this one is further a field than most. Like being in a crowded room with several conversations going on at the same time. I've been ignoring this thread thinking it was another one of endless speculation about future Pentax developments. I should have known only a thread that had gone OT would have gone on this long. Make it so. The Same Bald Guy Marnie aka Doe :-) - Warning: I am now filtering my email, so you may be censored. ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] The 30D/40D are pretty good though. Less accurate than the Pentax's, but they get there a fair bit faster. Isn't that like running 100yards in the opposite direction to a marathon start then claiming you've won? - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Not a good analogy, more like running the hundred yard dash, beating the those who finished to the 90 yard mark, stopping there and declaring yourself the winner. mike wilson wrote: From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] The 30D/40D are pretty good though. Less accurate than the Pentax's, but they get there a fair bit faster. Isn't that like running 100yards in the opposite direction to a marathon start then claiming you've won? - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Doug Franklin wrote: Adam Maas wrote: Less accurate than the Pentax's, but they get there a fair bit faster. Getting to the wrong place quickly rarely helps anyone. :-) It's fine as long as they're covered by DoF. That's why you hear all the Rebel owners whining that their Rebel can't focus a 50/1.8, the AF's accuracy is only calibrated for f2.8 and slower lenses, any better is a matter of luck. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Focus within the range of DOF and critical focus are two different things. If you're shooting portraits, for example, you want the eyes to be THE focal point, not just within range of DOF. And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. Paul -- Original message -- From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Doug Franklin wrote: Adam Maas wrote: Less accurate than the Pentax's, but they get there a fair bit faster. Getting to the wrong place quickly rarely helps anyone. :-) It's fine as long as they're covered by DoF. That's why you hear all the Rebel owners whining that their Rebel can't focus a 50/1.8, the AF's accuracy is only calibrated for f2.8 and slower lenses, any better is a matter of luck. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Indeed, Which leads to a lot of frustrated Rebel owners(well, except for those using the XTi, which has the more accurate AF unit from the 20D/30D). -Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Focus within the range of DOF and critical focus are two different things. If you're shooting portraits, for example, you want the eyes to be THE focal point, not just within range of DOF. And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. Paul -- Original message -- From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Doug Franklin wrote: Adam Maas wrote: Less accurate than the Pentax's, but they get there a fair bit faster. Getting to the wrong place quickly rarely helps anyone. :-) It's fine as long as they're covered by DoF. That's why you hear all the Rebel owners whining that their Rebel can't focus a 50/1.8, the AF's accuracy is only calibrated for f2.8 and slower lenses, any better is a matter of luck. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
- Original Message - From: mike wilson Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] The 30D/40D are pretty good though. Less accurate than the Pentax's, but they get there a fair bit faster. Isn't that like running 100yards in the opposite direction to a marathon start then claiming you've won? As long as focus accuracy is within the depth of focus (surprisingly deep on telephoto lenses), or depth of field (surprisingly deep on wide angle lenses), then it's all good. I don't know how less accurate (if at all) Canon's AF is, but it certainly isn't going to be especially bad, or people wouldn't be buying their cameras in droves for professional use. Pentax AF may be a tad more accurate, but it is certainly less fast than the present crop of higher performace Canons, which, in many situations where AF is beneficial, negates the advantage of AF. Accuracy of AF with non or slow moving subjects does not necessarily translate into better focusing performance with fast moving subjects. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
If I may ring the Luddite bell, relying upon AF for critical focus is a foolish idea. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
We were speaking of Rebel users. I'll bet nine out of ten use autofocus for everything. Paul -- Original message -- From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Focus within the range of DOF and critical focus are two different things. If you're shooting portraits, for example, you want the eyes to be THE focal point, not just within range of DOF. And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. If you are shooting portraits, there isn't a lot of reason to use AF, unless your subject is being really uncooperative, in which case, you are probably the wrong photographer for the job. If you use the tools the right way, they work just fine. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Focus within the range of DOF and critical focus are two different things. If you're shooting portraits, for example, you want the eyes to be THE focal point, not just within range of DOF. And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. If you are shooting portraits, there isn't a lot of reason to use AF, unless your subject is being really uncooperative, in which case, you are probably the wrong photographer for the job. If you use the tools the right way, they work just fine. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
For those who may be interested: Most of the editors mentioned in this sub-thread are from the Unix/Linux world although most of them are available for Windows these days (Unix stuff should run natively on OS-X for the Apple fans). Emacs started out as a text editor but has over time evolved into more of a computing environment, an application that does everything, 180 degrees away from the Unix philosophy (many small applications that can interact); you either love it or hate it, there is no middle ground. Perhaps the most exotic editing system mention is the LyX/LaTeX one I comment on. Tex (LaTeX is an enhanced version) is the original Unix formating/typesetting program. It takes a text file and turns it into a completely formated Postscript file to send to the printer or typesetting machine. LyX is a graphical text editor that uses templates to tell LaTeX how to format the page(s). Once you have a template you simply type in your text and send it and the template to LaTeX and a completely formated document comes out. Business letters all come out with identical formating. Writing a novel? Every chapter comes out with the same format ready to be printed. A dissertation? Completely formatted including all footnotes and citations. So one can easily see what I meant about using it to write a 100 volume encyclopedia. Overkill for most uses, but once set up it is as easy to use as a basic text editor; simply select a template, type in your text, spell check it, and print it. Saves hours of formating hassles. The text/programing editor I normally use is Wordpad (the free version, the pro versions is more of a programing environment). I also use Word 2003 because someone gave me Office 2003, and because it is pretty much the standard out there although it is bloatware taken to an extreme and takes about a week to figure out how to shut off all those unwanted features everytime I have to reload it. BTW, Wordpad that comes with Win XP is not bad as a basic wordprocessor. David Savage wrote: I'm reading this sub-thread and it's all whistling over my head. (I know about LISP, as Autocad uses it, but the rest is gobbledygook :-) . You guy's are such computer geek's vbg For the record, if I need to write a letter, report etc it can't be hand written, I used MS Word/Excel at work the Open Office equivalent at home Cheers, Dave At 03:04 AM 17/10/2007, Adam Maas wrote: BBEdit is superb. I miss it (Running a Vista system as my main box right now, need to get another Mac). -Adam P. J. Alling wrote: Sorry my text editor of choice is KEdit, a windows version of XEdit. Extensible using REX, (I think I have a REX manual around here somewhere), a language that is one understandable by mere mortals and doesn't lead me to trying to rewrite the editor entirely, so I actually get some work done. Gonz wrote: Then you need to run M-x doctor. (ever tried that?) :) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: mike wilson Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] The 30D/40D are pretty good though. Less accurate than the Pentax's, but they get there a fair bit faster. Isn't that like running 100yards in the opposite direction to a marathon start then claiming you've won? As long as focus accuracy is within the depth of focus (surprisingly deep on telephoto lenses), or depth of field (surprisingly deep on wide angle lenses), then it's all good. I don't know how less accurate (if at all) Canon's AF is, but it certainly isn't going to be especially bad, or people wouldn't be buying their cameras in droves for professional use. Pentax AF may be a tad more accurate, but it is certainly less fast than the present crop of higher performace Canons, which, in many situations where AF is beneficial, negates the advantage of AF. Accuracy of AF with non or slow moving subjects does not necessarily translate into better focusing performance with fast moving subjects. William Robb Note this is Canon's low-end AF. Their higher-end units (like on the 1-series) are truly world-class. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On 10/18/07, Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: mike wilson Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] The 30D/40D are pretty good though. Less accurate than the Pentax's, but they get there a fair bit faster. Isn't that like running 100yards in the opposite direction to a marathon start then claiming you've won? As long as focus accuracy is within the depth of focus (surprisingly deep on telephoto lenses), or depth of field (surprisingly deep on wide angle lenses), then it's all good. I don't know how less accurate (if at all) Canon's AF is, but it certainly isn't going to be especially bad, or people wouldn't be buying their cameras in droves for professional use. Pentax AF may be a tad more accurate, but it is certainly less fast than the present crop of higher performace Canons, which, in many situations where AF is beneficial, negates the advantage of AF. Accuracy of AF with non or slow moving subjects does not necessarily translate into better focusing performance with fast moving subjects. William Robb Note this is Canon's low-end AF. Their higher-end units (like on the 1-series) are truly world-class. And If I remember correctly isn't that (Canon 1Dxxx) what Wendy is using? (I'm assuming it was Wendy you were originally refering to Bill) Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On 16/10/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Point taken. It really is the high end Canons that are so blisteringly fast. If I find myself shooting a lot of agility, I might have to consider one of them and some sort of a zoom lens for it, though an improved Pentax would suit me better. I see Wendy's been showing you hers again ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On 17/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. or even 1.4 ;-))) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On Oct 17, 2007, at 9:49 AM, Cotty wrote: On 17/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. or even 1.4 ;-))) Huh? I dunno about anyone else, but I need about 1-1.5 feet DoF as a minimum at 7' focus distance for a conventional HS portrait to obtain razor sharp eyes and acceptably sharp nose to shoulders, with a nicely soft backdrop. With an 75mm lens on a 35mm film SLR, that requires f/8. - Subject distance 7 ft Depth of field Near limit 6.43 ft Far limit 7.67 ft Total 1.24 ft In front of subject 0.57 ft (46%) Behind subject 0.67 ft (54%) - With a 43mm lens on a Pentax DSLR, it presents a somewhat wider FoV, but f/4 works well to produce a very similar image: - Subject distance 7 ft Depth of field Near limit 6.42 ft Far limit 7.7 ft Total 1.28 ft In front of subject 0.58 ft (45%) Behind subject 0.7 ft (55%) - Shooting with either at f/2.8 or larger lens openings creates unsharpness in the foreground (at the nose) of a HS portrait, which is distracting and looks bad. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Oct 17, 2007, at 9:49 AM, Cotty wrote: On 17/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. or even 1.4 ;-))) Huh? I dunno about anyone else, but I need about 1-1.5 feet DoF as a minimum at 7' focus distance for a conventional HS portrait to obtain razor sharp eyes and acceptably sharp nose to shoulders, with a nicely soft backdrop. With an 75mm lens on a 35mm film SLR, that requires f/8. - Subject distance 7 ft Depth of field Near limit 6.43 ft Far limit 7.67 ft Total 1.24 ft In front of subject 0.57 ft (46%) Behind subject 0.67 ft (54%) - With a 43mm lens on a Pentax DSLR, it presents a somewhat wider FoV, but f/4 works well to produce a very similar image: - Subject distance 7 ft Depth of field Near limit 6.42 ft Far limit 7.7 ft Total 1.28 ft In front of subject 0.58 ft (45%) Behind subject 0.7 ft (55%) - Shooting with either at f/2.8 or larger lens openings creates unsharpness in the foreground (at the nose) of a HS portrait, which is distracting and looks bad. Godfrey There's only a few inches from the tip of the nose to the eyes and 3-4 more to the ears. That's what I usually want in focus, and that requires a larger aperture than f8 at 75mm on 35mm(which would have the entire head, and then some in focus). -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On 17/10/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed: Shooting with either at f/2.8 or larger lens openings creates unsharpness in the foreground (at the nose) of a HS portrait, which is distracting and looks bad. Godders Godders Godders Selective focus portraiture has been in vogue here in Europe for several years, almost passe now. The latest fashion seems to be shooting sharp and blurring in PS in areas that would have been impossible to do at shooting stage. From landscapes to product shots - they're all at it. I don't do that but I do like minimal DOF in a portrait. http://www.cottysnaps.com/snaps/portraits/images/pic26.html http://www.cottysnaps.com/snaps/portraits/images/pic31.html Regarding style and fashion, I realise that cutting edge European trends take a while to filter across the pond ;-))) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
When shooting paid portaits, I rarely shooter faster than f4, usually more towards f5.6. There are cases where faster is useful, but they are more the exception than the rule. On trick is to not put them too close to the background - that way they are all in focus and the background is not. Or you can use a background that doesn't compete with the subject. I do agree that the eyes have to be sharp. If they are, then a little softness in other areas can be forgiven or ignored by the viewer, but if the eyes are soft, no matter what else you do, the picture is not acceptable. That is one of the reasons I find manual focus so important when shooting people/portraits/weddings. You have to get the right focus and don't want to be fussing with focus locking/recomposing or fiddling with trying to set the right focus point. Just use your eyes and turn the focus ring to the right spot. -- Best regards, Bruce Wednesday, October 17, 2007, 10:25:20 AM, you wrote: GD On Oct 17, 2007, at 9:49 AM, Cotty wrote: On 17/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. or even 1.4 ;-))) GD Huh? I dunno about anyone else, but I need about 1-1.5 feet DoF as a GD minimum at 7' focus distance for a conventional HS portrait to GD obtain razor sharp eyes and acceptably sharp nose to shoulders, with GD a nicely soft backdrop. GD With an 75mm lens on a 35mm film SLR, that requires f/8. GD - GD Subject distance 7 ft GD Depth of field GD Near limit 6.43 ft GD Far limit 7.67 ft GD Total 1.24 ft GD In front of subject 0.57 ft (46%) GD Behind subject 0.67 ft (54%) GD - GD With a 43mm lens on a Pentax DSLR, it presents a somewhat wider FoV, GD but f/4 works well to produce a very similar image: GD - GD Subject distance 7 ft GD Depth of field GD Near limit 6.42 ft GD Far limit 7.7 ft GD Total 1.28 ft GD In front of subject 0.58 ft (45%) GD Behind subject 0.7 ft (55%) GD - GD Shooting with either at f/2.8 or larger lens openings creates GD unsharpness in the foreground (at the nose) of a HS portrait, which GD is distracting and looks bad. GD Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
If all you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail. Cory Papenfuss wrote: Word is used as the wrong tool for so many jobs it's incredible. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
That's all very true of conventional portraiture. But I've seen many lovely shots with critical focus on the eyes only. Paul -- Original message -- From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Oct 17, 2007, at 9:49 AM, Cotty wrote: On 17/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. or even 1.4 ;-))) Huh? I dunno about anyone else, but I need about 1-1.5 feet DoF as a minimum at 7' focus distance for a conventional HS portrait to obtain razor sharp eyes and acceptably sharp nose to shoulders, with a nicely soft backdrop. With an 75mm lens on a 35mm film SLR, that requires f/8. - Subject distance 7 ft Depth of field Near limit 6.43 ft Far limit 7.67 ft Total 1.24 ft In front of subject 0.57 ft (46%) Behind subject 0.67 ft (54%) - With a 43mm lens on a Pentax DSLR, it presents a somewhat wider FoV, but f/4 works well to produce a very similar image: - Subject distance 7 ft Depth of field Near limit 6.42 ft Far limit 7.7 ft Total 1.28 ft In front of subject 0.58 ft (45%) Behind subject 0.7 ft (55%) - Shooting with either at f/2.8 or larger lens openings creates unsharpness in the foreground (at the nose) of a HS portrait, which is distracting and looks bad. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's all very true of conventional portraiture. But I've seen many lovely shots with critical focus on the eyes only. Paul yeah but what do you, cotty and I know about portraiture! apparently about as much as we know about street photography... :-) -- Christian http://photography.skofteland.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
No, no, Bruce. You know that you have to have auto-focus for portraiture. I mean that subject may move a couple of inches or so between shots. GRIN Excellent advice, by the way. Bruce Dayton wrote: When shooting paid portaits, I rarely shooter faster than f4, usually more towards f5.6. There are cases where faster is useful, but they are more the exception than the rule. On trick is to not put them too close to the background - that way they are all in focus and the background is not. Or you can use a background that doesn't compete with the subject. I do agree that the eyes have to be sharp. If they are, then a little softness in other areas can be forgiven or ignored by the viewer, but if the eyes are soft, no matter what else you do, the picture is not acceptable. That is one of the reasons I find manual focus so important when shooting people/portraits/weddings. You have to get the right focus and don't want to be fussing with focus locking/recomposing or fiddling with trying to set the right focus point. Just use your eyes and turn the focus ring to the right spot. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Everyone has their likes and dislikes. I prefer razor sharp eyes and eyelashes, nose just soft enough that pores aren't disturbing, soft ears, very soft forground (if any) and background so soft that it only hints of something. Bokeh is important. But that's just me. Regards, Bob... Art is not a reflection of reality. it is the reality of a reflection. -Jean Luc Godard - Original Message - From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Oct 17, 2007, at 9:49 AM, Cotty wrote: On 17/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. or even 1.4 ;-))) Huh? I dunno about anyone else, but I need about 1-1.5 feet DoF as a minimum at 7' focus distance for a conventional HS portrait to obtain razor sharp eyes and acceptably sharp nose to shoulders, with a nicely soft backdrop. With an 75mm lens on a 35mm film SLR, that requires f/8. - Subject distance 7 ft Depth of field Near limit 6.43 ft Far limit 7.67 ft Total 1.24 ft In front of subject 0.57 ft (46%) Behind subject 0.67 ft (54%) - With a 43mm lens on a Pentax DSLR, it presents a somewhat wider FoV, but f/4 works well to produce a very similar image: - Subject distance 7 ft Depth of field Near limit 6.42 ft Far limit 7.7 ft Total 1.28 ft In front of subject 0.58 ft (45%) Behind subject 0.7 ft (55%) - Shooting with either at f/2.8 or larger lens openings creates unsharpness in the foreground (at the nose) of a HS portrait, which is distracting and looks bad. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
-- Original message -- From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] l Regarding style and fashion, I realise that cutting edge European trends take a while to filter across the pond ;-))) Bite your tongue, young fellow. My pic of Steve at f2.5 with the K85/1.8: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=4159763 Love both of those portraits you showed, by the way. Particularly the old coot! Paul -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
So i was watching TV on the Labour day weekend, and wound up giving a dollar to Jerry's squids. Dave On 10/16/07, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16/10/07, P. J. Alling, discombobulated, unleashed: I'm a Doctor not a Sturgeon. There's something fishy going on here Cheers, Cotty You're spawning new ones. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On Oct 17, 2007, at 10:50 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's all very true of conventional portraiture. But I've seen many lovely shots with critical focus on the eyes only. Certainly. Conventional portraiture is what I was referring to. Blurry bits in the foreground, however, are distracting. You've got to at least cover the nose with acceptable sharpness in my opinion. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On 17/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: -- Original message -- From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] l Regarding style and fashion, I realise that cutting edge European trends take a while to filter across the pond ;-))) Bite your tongue, young fellow. My pic of Steve at f2.5 with the K85/1.8: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=4159763 Love both of those portraits you showed, by the way. Particularly the old coot! You feel an affinity eh ;-) He's still living! Thanks. I will go to his funeral. The pic of Steve I like very much, but personally, with that head, if it were mine I would present it with every piece of stubble, every blemish, every hair follicle, in razor sharp finger-cutting focus. But like my wife says, 'If we were all the same the world would be a boring place'. Me, I just say bollocks a lot. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Right on the money, Bruce. :-) G On Oct 17, 2007, at 11:11 AM, Bruce Dayton wrote: When shooting paid portaits, I rarely shooter faster than f4, usually more towards f5.6. There are cases where faster is useful, but they are more the exception than the rule. On trick is to not put them too close to the background - that way they are all in focus and the background is not. Or you can use a background that doesn't compete with the subject. I do agree that the eyes have to be sharp. If they are, then a little softness in other areas can be forgiven or ignored by the viewer, but if the eyes are soft, no matter what else you do, the picture is not acceptable. That is one of the reasons I find manual focus so important when shooting people/portraits/weddings. You have to get the right focus and don't want to be fussing with focus locking/recomposing or fiddling with trying to set the right focus point. Just use your eyes and turn the focus ring to the right spot. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On Oct 17, 2007, at 10:46 AM, Cotty wrote: Shooting with either at f/2.8 or larger lens openings creates unsharpness in the foreground (at the nose) of a HS portrait, which is distracting and looks bad. Godders Godders Godders Selective focus portraiture has been in vogue here in Europe for several years, almost passe now. The latest fashion seems to be shooting sharp and blurring in PS in areas that would have been impossible to do at shooting stage. From landscapes to product shots - they're all at it. I don't do that but I do like minimal DOF in a portrait. http://www.cottysnaps.com/snaps/portraits/images/pic26.html http://www.cottysnaps.com/snaps/portraits/images/pic31.html Regarding style and fashion, I realise that cutting edge European trends take a while to filter across the pond ;-))) Neither of these are formal HS portraiture ... Besides, his nose is blurry. ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On Oct 17, 2007, at 12:59 PM, Cotty wrote: On 17/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=4159763 Love both of those portraits you showed, by the way. Particularly the old coot! The pic of Steve I like very much, but personally, with that head, if it were mine I would present it with every piece of stubble, every blemish, every hair follicle, in razor sharp finger-cutting focus. But like my wife says, 'If we were all the same the world would be a boring place'. I agree with both of you. Now that's frightening. Me, I just say bollocks a lot. There is help available for that. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Steve is both vain and insecure:-). Paul -- Original message -- From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 17/10/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: -- Original message -- From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] l Regarding style and fashion, I realise that cutting edge European trends take a while to filter across the pond ;-))) Bite your tongue, young fellow. My pic of Steve at f2.5 with the K85/1.8: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=4159763 Love both of those portraits you showed, by the way. Particularly the old coot! You feel an affinity eh ;-) He's still living! Thanks. I will go to his funeral. The pic of Steve I like very much, but personally, with that head, if it were mine I would present it with every piece of stubble, every blemish, every hair follicle, in razor sharp finger-cutting focus. But like my wife says, 'If we were all the same the world would be a boring place'. Me, I just say bollocks a lot. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Cotty wrote: Selective focus portraiture has been in vogue here in Europe for several years, almost passe now. The latest fashion seems to be shooting sharp and blurring in PS in areas that would have been impossible to do at shooting stage. From landscapes to product shots - they're all at it. I don't do that but I do like minimal DOF in a portrait. http://www.cottysnaps.com/snaps/portraits/images/pic26.html http://www.cottysnaps.com/snaps/portraits/images/pic31.html Regarding style and fashion, I realise that cutting edge European trends take a while to filter across the pond ;-))) It seems to have made it as far as the east coast, at least :) Several of the portrait-shooter pros I know here prefer to shoot with DOF narrow enough that the eyes are sharp and the ears are out of focus and even the tip of the nose is a bit soft. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? We were speaking of Rebel users. I'll bet nine out of ten use autofocus for everything. So we aren't speaking of people with lenses faster than f2.8 then, are we. William Robb - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Focus within the range of DOF and critical focus are two different things. If you're shooting portraits, for example, you want the eyes to be THE focal point, not just within range of DOF. And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. If you are shooting portraits, there isn't a lot of reason to use AF, unless your subject is being really uncooperative, in which case, you are probably the wrong photographer for the job. If you use the tools the right way, they work just fine. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Good point. On Oct 17, 2007, at 6:59 PM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? We were speaking of Rebel users. I'll bet nine out of ten use autofocus for everything. So we aren't speaking of people with lenses faster than f2.8 then, are we. William Robb - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Focus within the range of DOF and critical focus are two different things. If you're shooting portraits, for example, you want the eyes to be THE focal point, not just within range of DOF. And less than 2.8 is frequently the stop of choice for portraiture. If you are shooting portraits, there isn't a lot of reason to use AF, unless your subject is being really uncooperative, in which case, you are probably the wrong photographer for the job. If you use the tools the right way, they work just fine. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
William Robb wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We were speaking of Rebel users. I'll bet nine out of ten use autofocus for everything. So we aren't speaking of people with lenses faster than f2.8 then, are we. True. I just convinced one of my students, a digi-rebel user, to buy a prime. She went for a Canon 28/2.8 and absolutely loves it. (She's thrilled with the DOF scale next to the focusing ring.) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Students should be required to make and use their first camera - a pinhole. After this, students should be required to use cameras without batteries. Camera won't work without batteries? Get one that does! Light meters should be forbidden until at least half way through the course. Regards, Luddite Bob... Art is not a reflection of reality. it is the reality of a reflection. -Jean Luc Godard - Original Message - From: Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] William Robb wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We were speaking of Rebel users. I'll bet nine out of ten use autofocus for everything. So we aren't speaking of people with lenses faster than f2.8 then, are we. True. I just convinced one of my students, a digi-rebel user, to buy a prime. She went for a Canon 28/2.8 and absolutely loves it. (She's thrilled with the DOF scale next to the focusing ring.) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
- Original Message - From: Bob Blakely Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Students should be required to make and use their first camera - a pinhole. After this, students should be required to use cameras without batteries. Camera won't work without batteries? Get one that does! Light meters should be forbidden until at least half way through the course. I know that your tongue is somewhat in cheek with this, but you aren't too far off the mark for what should be expected of photography students. The local tech college here is still issuing 4x5 cameras to students, and the Don has been bugging me recently to part with my mechanical cameras, which are quite in demand due to attrition. I wouldn't ask a student to build their own camera unless they were also in the carpentry program, as one skill isn't necessary for the other, but I wouldn't issue them zoom lenses ever, and if the course happened to include digital cameras, they would get a hobbled RAW converter and nothing else for post processing. Let the little bastards learn how to make their pictures without Photoshop. One of things I am being asked to do quite often at the shop is to fix pictures taken by supposed pros that should have been easy images to make if the person had a clue about what they were doing. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? We were speaking of Rebel users. I'll bet nine out of ten use autofocus for everything. So we aren't speaking of people with lenses faster than f2.8 then, are we. William Robb Yeah, we are. Canon 50 f1.8's are the cheapest lens in the system, they run less than $80 USD new, and are a lens that many recommend to Canon owners as a must-have (Sharp, fastish, cheap, a good combo). And they're known to throw fits on Rebels with in-spec but marginal AF calibration. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Text Editors (was Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?)
From: P. J. Alling Sorry my text editor of choice is KEdit, a windows version of XEdit. Extensible using REX, (I think I have a REX manual around here somewhere), a language that is one understandable by mere mortals and doesn't lead me to trying to rewrite the editor entirely, so I actually get some work done. That brings back some memories. I haven't used KEdit since DOS 3 days. Didn't even know it had been ported to windows. I used to use IBM's E editor a lot; very simple with powerful tools for manipulating text in blocks ... and with PC DOS 7 it included REXX. I never did a whole lot of programming, mostly low level stuff with debug. Now I use Word if I need M$ Word compatibility and notepad for most everything else. I'm looking at Open Office though. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
- Original Message - From: Adam Maas Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Yeah, we are. Canon 50 f1.8's are the cheapest lens in the system, they run less than $80 USD new, and are a lens that many recommend to Canon owners as a must-have (Sharp, fastish, cheap, a good combo). And they're known to throw fits on Rebels with in-spec but marginal AF calibration. I suspect that other than the usual DPreview whiners, there aren't many non zoom lenses in use on Rebels. Besides, if they wanted a good camera, they had the option to buy something other than the bottom feeder. I hear Canon makes some pretty good cameras. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Adam Maas Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Yeah, we are. Canon 50 f1.8's are the cheapest lens in the system, they run less than $80 USD new, and are a lens that many recommend to Canon owners as a must-have (Sharp, fastish, cheap, a good combo). And they're known to throw fits on Rebels with in-spec but marginal AF calibration. I suspect that other than the usual DPreview whiners, there aren't many non zoom lenses in use on Rebels. Besides, if they wanted a good camera, they had the option to buy something other than the bottom feeder. I hear Canon makes some pretty good cameras. William Robb You're right for the tourist set, but there's a lot of semi-serious people out there with 50/1.8's. -Adam Who agrees, Canon does make some nice cameras. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
William Robb wrote: One of things I am being asked to do quite often at the shop is to fix pictures taken by supposed pros that should have been easy images to make if the person had a clue about what they were doing. So charge the shit out of them and laugh all the way to the bank. A lot of people don't realize it, but W.C. Fields (or P.T. Barnum, I can never remember which) wasn't lamenting, he was espousing a business opportunity. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
- Original Message - From: Godfrey DiGiorgi Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? On Oct 15, 2007, at 10:02 PM, William Robb wrote: For a second rate company, they do pretty well. Try shooting with a mid range or higher Canon somtime. Owned them, did that. Have a look at the D40. Not interested. thanks though. I'd buy a Nikon or an Olympus first. Canon lenses don't thrill me. Otherwise I'd have continued with them. As I said, for a second rate company, Pentax does pretty well. I didn't say that first rate companies don't do well, or better. Nor does it matter. back to photography. Do try to appreciate that some people actually want a high spec camera body, whether or not they will use it to the maximum of it's abilities. Not all of us shoot dead objects sitting on sidewalks. I have two dogs that can easily outrun the AF on my K10. I was sent, from another list member, a picture of a Terv at full gallop, running towards the camera. Apparently, the AF had no trouble keeping up, as the dog was tack sharp. She uses a Canon of some sort. No way in hell a Pentax would keep up to it. I don't necessarily want a full frame camera, but I would like something that can keep up with my dogs. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On 15/10/2007, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15/10/07, Bob Blakely, discombobulated, unleashed: Art is not a reflection of reality. it is the reality of a reflection. -Jean Luc Godard Make it so. - Jean Luc Picard Cheers, Cotty Indeed! -Teal'c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On Oct 15, 2007, at 11:04 PM, William Robb wrote: Do try to appreciate that some people actually want a high spec camera body, whether or not they will use it to the maximum of it's abilities. Not all of us shoot dead objects sitting on sidewalks. I have two dogs that can easily outrun the AF on my K10. I was sent, from another list member, a picture of a Terv at full gallop, running towards the camera. Apparently, the AF had no trouble keeping up, as the dog was tack sharp. She uses a Canon of some sort. No way in hell a Pentax would keep up to it. I don't necessarily want a full frame camera, but I would like something that can keep up with my dogs. So buy a Canon. They're good for that sort of thing. I don't shoot only dead things sitting on the sidewalk either, thank you. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
At 02:41 PM 16/10/2007, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Oct 15, 2007, at 11:04 PM, William Robb wrote: I don't necessarily want a full frame camera, but I would like something that can keep up with my dogs. So buy a Canon. They're good for that sort of thing. I was waiting for that I don't shoot only dead things sitting on the sidewalk either, thank you. Yeah. Sometimes the dead things are on the road, a grassy field, under a car... :-) Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
At 02:37 PM 16/10/2007, you wrote: On 15/10/2007, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15/10/07, Bob Blakely, discombobulated, unleashed: Art is not a reflection of reality. it is the reality of a reflection. -Jean Luc Godard Make it so. - Jean Luc Picard Cheers, Cotty Indeed! -Teal'c Wrong franchise buddy. ;-) Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
- Original Message - From: Godfrey DiGiorgi Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? I don't necessarily want a full frame camera, but I would like something that can keep up with my dogs. So buy a Canon. They're good for that sort of thing. I'd rather Pentax built a camera that was up to the standard of a five year old Canon. I could live with that, and use my present lenses to boot. I don't shoot only dead things sitting on the sidewalk either, thank you. Never said you did, though at least Pentax is mostly able to keep up with that sort of subject. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
- Original Message - From: Godfrey DiGiorgi Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? On Oct 15, 2007, at 11:48 PM, David Savage wrote: Yeah. Sometimes the dead things are on the road, a grassy field, under a car... Yup. Sometimes they move pretty fast too... http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW7/32a.htm Yup, I see your camera kept up with the action too. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On Oct 15, 2007, at 11:48 PM, David Savage wrote: Yeah. Sometimes the dead things are on the road, a grassy field, under a car... Yup. Sometimes they move pretty fast too... http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW7/32a.htm But some just like to piss and moan. Must be disgruntled Democrats if they're not blind old Republicans, eh? ]'-) usw, Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
- Original Message - From: David Savage Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Indeed! -Teal'c Wrong franchise buddy. It's dead, Jim. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
- Original Message - From: David Savage Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? So buy a Canon. They're good for that sort of thing. I was waiting for that It would be good advice, and I'd probably take it, except for the impractibility of it. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On Oct 15, 2007, at 11:55 PM, William Robb wrote: So buy a Canon. They're good for that sort of thing. I'd rather Pentax built a camera that was up to the standard of a five year old Canon. I could live with that, and use my present lenses to boot. LOL ... I'm sure you wouldn't be pleased with the performance of a Canon D60, Bill. And the 10D owners never stopped pissing and moaning about the focusing on that one either. ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Quoting William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Indeed! -Teal'c Wrong franchise buddy. It's dead, Jim. There's Klingons on the starboard bow.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney, Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/brianwalters -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Find out how you can get spam free email. http://www.bluebottle.com/tag/3 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
For a second rate company, they do pretty well. Try shooting with a mid range or higher Canon somtime. Have a look at the D40. In 1972, Pentax was still more or less a big player in the marketplace, though they were already at least a generation out of step. People want decent lenses to be sure, and they can get that from any camera maker, but more than that, they want technological sophistication. That's true to a certain extent, but there are also many people who actually think it's more important that a product is easy to use and can do the job they want in an efficient manner, than that it's advanced, modern or high-tech, and who value usability more than features, or should I say feature creep? Those are the ones Pentax seem to be targeting, and I rather like them for it. It sort of makes me wish that Pentax were producing mobile phone, because then I might be able to buy one that's, well, a phone - and not an MP3 player, GPS, radio, Filofax, games console, toaster... Or a camera for that matter ;-) Right now, that means fast AF, and high frame rates. It's been about that for some 20 years, and Pentax has been way behind the curve for all of it. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
How many times has Tom said that over the last five years:-)). Paul On Oct 16, 2007, at 12:10 AM, Tom C wrote: LOL. You're not breaking it to me. I was being kind. :-) Pentax has a slim chance yet to recover. If they blow it in the next 6 - 12 months though, I susect they are done for. Tom C. From: Mark Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: pdml pdml@pdml.net Subject: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:59:17 -0400 I hate to break it to you, but in the USA, Pentax *is* a 2nd tier camera company. The company hasn't released a truly professional system camera here (or anywhere, actually) since the LX. The current high-end Pentax lens selection is miniscule compared to Canon and Nikon. Pentax does not provide the kind of professional support that Canon and Nikon do at major sporting events. Pentax products lack presence on store shelves in the USA. Etc. Tom C wrote: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? If memory serves the other two are an over-priced Nissan and an over-priced Honda. I guess that depends on what your personal comfort is worth. William Robb My analogy was not about price, it was about image, prestige, perception in the market place. Sure a FF DSLR will cost more than one with an APS-C size sensor. If the Canons, Nikon's, Sony's of the world offer FF DSLR's, then Pentax must also. If they do not, they will relegate themselves to a 2nd tier camera company, and it doesn't matter who loves their camera, or how much it satisfies their current needs. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Pentax autofocus keeps up quite nicely in CAF mode. http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=4834217size=lg http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6065859size=lg http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5786253size=lg http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=5700158size=lg On Oct 16, 2007, at 2:41 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Oct 15, 2007, at 11:04 PM, William Robb wrote: Do try to appreciate that some people actually want a high spec camera body, whether or not they will use it to the maximum of it's abilities. Not all of us shoot dead objects sitting on sidewalks. I have two dogs that can easily outrun the AF on my K10. I was sent, from another list member, a picture of a Terv at full gallop, running towards the camera. Apparently, the AF had no trouble keeping up, as the dog was tack sharp. She uses a Canon of some sort. No way in hell a Pentax would keep up to it. I don't necessarily want a full frame camera, but I would like something that can keep up with my dogs. So buy a Canon. They're good for that sort of thing. I don't shoot only dead things sitting on the sidewalk either, thank you. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Why is that, Mr Data? Jean Luc, after generating a particularly obtuse histogram in the red channel. From: David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/10/16 Tue AM 12:41:08 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Tea. Earl grey. Hot - Ditto same guy Cheers, Dave On 10/16/07, Bob Blakely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Engage. - Same guy. Regards, Bob... Art is not a reflection of reality. it is the reality of a reflection. -Jean Luc Godard - Original Message - From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax list PDML@pdml.net Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 3:21 PM Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? On 15/10/07, Bob Blakely, discombobulated, unleashed: Art is not a reflection of reality. it is the reality of a reflection. -Jean Luc Godard Make it so. - Jean Luc Picard ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Actually it's just ingrained muscle memory, years of having to use vi while maintaining services on Unix machines means that the basic editing commands are pretty much automatic. vi is ideal for that use, it's lightweight and everything has it. I still :wq on a regular basis in just about every other editor/word processor. If you want punishment, use emacs. All the weight of Word, none of the Eye Candy. -Adam P. J. Alling wrote: You are a glutton for punishment... Adam Maas wrote: I use vi -Adam Always the odd one out. Tom C wrote: It'll likely be a matter of attrition. What % of people here use WordPerfect as opposed to MS Word? I'll bet it's a 5/95 ratio if not higher. Not too different from where Pentax stands in the market, despite some recent relative success with the K10D. Your suppositions are probably correct. When I say done for, I'm not predicting when... I'm saying that inevitable market forces will finally take their toll, unless something changes quickly. Tom C. From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:20:34 -0400 Why? Pentax has never been a player in the Pro 35mm market. Not being one now will make little difference. I expect to see them bring out a body above the K10D within the next 6 months, or a K10D 'successor' that is little more than the new Sony 12MP sensor and a new shutter in the K10D body, perhaps with a higher framerate. I don't expect to see a Pentax body above the $1300 or so price point. -Adam Tom C wrote: LOL. You're not breaking it to me. I was being kind. :-) Pentax has a slim chance yet to recover. If they blow it in the next 6 - 12 months though, I susect they are done for. Tom C. From: Mark Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: pdml pdml@pdml.net Subject: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:59:17 -0400 I hate to break it to you, but in the USA, Pentax *is* a 2nd tier camera company. The company hasn't released a truly professional system camera here (or anywhere, actually) since the LX. The current high-end Pentax lens selection is miniscule compared to Canon and Nikon. Pentax does not provide the kind of professional support that Canon and Nikon do at major sporting events. Pentax products lack presence on store shelves in the USA. Etc. Tom C wrote: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? If memory serves the other two are an over-priced Nissan and an over-priced Honda. I guess that depends on what your personal comfort is worth. William Robb My analogy was not about price, it was about image, prestige, perception in the market place. Sure a FF DSLR will cost more than one with an APS-C size sensor. If the Canons, Nikon's, Sony's of the world offer FF DSLR's, then Pentax must also. If they do not, they will relegate themselves to a 2nd tier camera company, and it doesn't matter who loves their camera, or how much it satisfies their current needs. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: David Savage Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? So buy a Canon. They're good for that sort of thing. I was waiting for that It would be good advice, and I'd probably take it, except for the impractibility of it. William Robb Your FA and earlier lenses will work on a 40D with adaptors, much like apre-A lenses on the K10D. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Godfrey DiGiorgi Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? I don't necessarily want a full frame camera, but I would like something that can keep up with my dogs. So buy a Canon. They're good for that sort of thing. I'd rather Pentax built a camera that was up to the standard of a five year old Canon. I could live with that, and use my present lenses to boot. They have, a K10D outperforms the EOS 10D in every way (including AF). It's the newer mid-range Canons that actually have fast AF, the '5 year old Canon' doesn't (Actually the 10D is newer than that, the D60 is the 5 year old model and is outperformed by a K100D). -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Godfrey DiGiorgi Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? For a second rate company, they do pretty well. Try shooting with a mid range or higher Canon somtime. Have a look at the D40. In 1972, Pentax was still more or less a big player in the marketplace, though they were already at least a generation out of step. People want decent lenses to be sure, and they can get that from any camera maker, but more than that, they want technological sophistication. Right now, that means fast AF, and high frame rates. It's been about that for some 20 years, and Pentax has been way behind the curve for all of it. William Robb D40 - low-end 6MP Nikon 40D - mid-range 10MP Canon Bloody namespace collisions. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
In the words of Commander Data Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing. Peter -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Bob Blakely wrote: Will, sometimes there is nothing we can do but bow to the absurd. - Picard, again... I'm a physician, not a bricklayer! - Dr. McCoy ;-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Adam Maas wrote: Tom C wrote: It'll likely be a matter of attrition. What % of people here use WordPerfect as opposed to MS Word? I use vi Open Office here. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Toralf Lund wrote: It sort of makes me wish that Pentax were producing mobile phone, because then I might be able to buy one that's, well, a phone - and not an MP3 player, GPS, radio, Filofax, games console, toaster... Or a camera for that matter ;-) I'd never have thought of it if you hadn't brought it up, but I second that motion enthusiastically! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On 10/16/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toralf Lund wrote: It sort of makes me wish that Pentax were producing mobile phone, because then I might be able to buy one that's, well, a phone - and not an MP3 player, GPS, radio, Filofax, games console, toaster... Or a camera for that matter ;-) I'd never have thought of it if you hadn't brought it up, but I second that motion enthusiastically! I reckon if Pentax made mobile phones it'd be a collapsible can and a long piece of string. :-) Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
A -Chewbacca Peter Fairweather [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/16/2007 2:37 AM On 15/10/2007, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15/10/07, Bob Blakely, discombobulated, unleashed: Art is not a reflection of reality. it is the reality of a reflection. -Jean Luc Godard Make it so. - Jean Luc Picard Cheers, Cotty Indeed! -Teal'c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. !SIG:47145dff112749524890609! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Adam Maas wrote: And to William - I'd probably be a Republican if I was an American, it's a more comfortable party to a small-l libertarian like me. -Adam Republican, libertarian? Really (OK, I'm Australian, but I could raise the same eyebrow about the Liberal Party of Australia, a part of the coalition of the willing) http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PhilosophyOfLiberty-english_music.swf You have the right to seek leaders for yourself, but you do not have the right to impose rulers on others D -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Who knows? Pentax is effectively a bigger company now, or at least as long as Hoya is willing to put some money into the Imaging division. Hoya may smell some profit in Pentax lenses, especially since they can supply the blanks at cost. In the old film days, you could lag behind in technology as long as the basic features were done well, i.e., good optics, shutters, etc. A fancy new segmented meter was nice but you could get away without it. Film was the common piece of technology and everyone had to use it. Leica was an even more extreme example of this approach than Pentax. It's harder now. What is a basic DSLR? Digital is so much more tied to technology because of the sensors. And, of course, there's AF which is a much more difficult and variable feature than AE and one in which Pentax really fell behind. The big issue here is again the lenses, as the new DA* lenses will bring AF speed much closer to the market leaders. Here again, Hoya can make some money. Canon (and Nikon, but especially Canon) will always be ahead of Pentax in feature-rich body design since they have so much more RD money. The real question is convergence. At what point will all DSLR bodies be good enough to make extra features irrelevant to all but the very top end? I suspect that AF will evolve the longest, rather than sensor design. Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/16/2007 12:10 AM LOL. You're not breaking it to me. I was being kind. :-) Pentax has a slim chance yet to recover. If they blow it in the next 6 - 12 months though, I susect they are done for. Tom C. From: Mark Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: pdml pdml@pdml.net Subject: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:59:17 -0400 I hate to break it to you, but in the USA, Pentax *is* a 2nd tier camera company. The company hasn't released a truly professional system camera here (or anywhere, actually) since the LX. The current high-end Pentax lens selection is miniscule compared to Canon and Nikon. Pentax does not provide the kind of professional support that Canon and Nikon do at major sporting events. Pentax products lack presence on store shelves in the USA. Etc. Tom C wrote: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? If memory serves the other two are an over-priced Nissan and an over-priced Honda. I guess that depends on what your personal comfort is worth. William Robb My analogy was not about price, it was about image, prestige, perception in the market place. Sure a FF DSLR will cost more than one with an APS-C size sensor. If the Canons, Nikon's, Sony's of the world offer FF DSLR's, then Pentax must also. If they do not, they will relegate themselves to a 2nd tier camera company, and it doesn't matter who loves their camera, or how much it satisfies their current needs. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. !SIG:47143b5960531152253610! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
David Savage wrote: On 10/16/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toralf Lund wrote: It sort of makes me wish that Pentax were producing mobile phone, because then I might be able to buy one that's, well, a phone - and not an MP3 player, GPS, radio, Filofax, games console, toaster... Or a camera for that matter ;-) I'd never have thought of it if you hadn't brought it up, but I second that motion enthusiastically! I reckon if Pentax made mobile phones it'd be a collapsible can and a long piece of string. :-) Cheers, Dave Which would probably be an upgrade over the current 'everything but a decent phone' models. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Steve Desjardins wrote: Peter Fairweather wrote: On 15/10/2007, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15/10/07, Bob Blakely, discombobulated, unleashed: Art is not a reflection of reality. it is the reality of a reflection. -Jean Luc Godard Make it so. - Jean Luc Picard Indeed! -Teal'c A -Chewbacca Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Ford Prefect -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:22:50 +0100, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well yes it was a pissing match. But I'm not mad a Adam because he wouldn't back down. In fact I learned a few things from him. I just don't agree that they're the whole reason for the high ISO improvements. WW has managed to piss me off enough that he's back in my Kill file with Dobo, Rubinstine(sp), (just in case they ever raise their heads again, and a couple of others who shall remain nameless, because I can't refrain from arguing with them, not because they're bad people). William is mostly just nasty, and revels in it. William's only problem is that he doesn't suffer fools gladly. John -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Derby Chang wrote: Adam Maas wrote: And to William - I'd probably be a Republican if I was an American, it's a more comfortable party to a small-l libertarian like me. -Adam Republican, libertarian? Really (OK, I'm Australian, but I could raise the same eyebrow about the Liberal Party of Australia, a part of the coalition of the willing) http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PhilosophyOfLiberty-english_music.swf You have the right to seek leaders for yourself, but you do not have the right to impose rulers on others D The Republican's are less wedded to the Big Government ideal. I'm very not fond of their tendency to try and regulate morality via social practices, but I'm even less fond of the Democrats tendency to look at everybody as having group-based identities rather than individual identities and their unfortunate tendency to legislate morality via economic practices. As it goes, here in Canada I tend to flip-flop between the Conservative Party (Good on economics and OK on small government, bad on social issues) and the NDP (good on social issues, bad on economics. At least they will use the money they take from me to benefit the poor, while the Liberals prefer to benefit only their cronies) It doesn't help that the US Libertarian Party (the obvious home for a libertarian) is made up primarily of outright kooks with no connection to reality. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
But it's extensible using LISP, how could that be bad? Adam Maas wrote: Actually it's just ingrained muscle memory, years of having to use vi while maintaining services on Unix machines means that the basic editing commands are pretty much automatic. vi is ideal for that use, it's lightweight and everything has it. I still :wq on a regular basis in just about every other editor/word processor. If you want punishment, use emacs. All the weight of Word, none of the Eye Candy. -Adam P. J. Alling wrote: You are a glutton for punishment... Adam Maas wrote: I use vi -Adam Always the odd one out. Tom C wrote: It'll likely be a matter of attrition. What % of people here use WordPerfect as opposed to MS Word? I'll bet it's a 5/95 ratio if not higher. Not too different from where Pentax stands in the market, despite some recent relative success with the K10D. Your suppositions are probably correct. When I say done for, I'm not predicting when... I'm saying that inevitable market forces will finally take their toll, unless something changes quickly. Tom C. From: Adam Maas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:20:34 -0400 Why? Pentax has never been a player in the Pro 35mm market. Not being one now will make little difference. I expect to see them bring out a body above the K10D within the next 6 months, or a K10D 'successor' that is little more than the new Sony 12MP sensor and a new shutter in the K10D body, perhaps with a higher framerate. I don't expect to see a Pentax body above the $1300 or so price point. -Adam Tom C wrote: LOL. You're not breaking it to me. I was being kind. :-) Pentax has a slim chance yet to recover. If they blow it in the next 6 - 12 months though, I susect they are done for. Tom C. From: Mark Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: pdml pdml@pdml.net Subject: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:59:17 -0400 I hate to break it to you, but in the USA, Pentax *is* a 2nd tier camera company. The company hasn't released a truly professional system camera here (or anywhere, actually) since the LX. The current high-end Pentax lens selection is miniscule compared to Canon and Nikon. Pentax does not provide the kind of professional support that Canon and Nikon do at major sporting events. Pentax products lack presence on store shelves in the USA. Etc. Tom C wrote: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? If memory serves the other two are an over-priced Nissan and an over-priced Honda. I guess that depends on what your personal comfort is worth. William Robb My analogy was not about price, it was about image, prestige, perception in the market place. Sure a FF DSLR will cost more than one with an APS-C size sensor. If the Canons, Nikon's, Sony's of the world offer FF DSLR's, then Pentax must also. If they do not, they will relegate themselves to a 2nd tier camera company, and it doesn't matter who loves their camera, or how much it satisfies their current needs. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA)?
And, of course, there's AF which is a much more difficult and variable feature than AE and one in which Pentax really fell behind. The big issue here is again the lenses, as the new DA* lenses will bring AF speed much closer to the market leaders. Unfortunately, the DA* lenses don't focus noticeably faster with SDM than with shaft drive. I made it a point to try mine with shaft drive AF for a few days before installing firmware 1.3 and using them with SDM. About a year ago, a Pentax engineer essentially admitted that SDM wouldn't bring faster AF. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
I'm a Doctor not a Sturgeon. (well McCoy should have said it, sometime...) Mark Roberts wrote: Bob Blakely wrote: Will, sometimes there is nothing we can do but bow to the absurd. - Picard, again... I'm a physician, not a bricklayer! - Dr. McCoy ;-) -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Oh I don't know. :-) My statement was a little different. I'm saying that they have gained a little respect with the K10D and now is the prime time to capitalize on it with a camera body that looks like they're trying to compete with the very high-mid/high range offerings from Canon and Nikon. To really do that, it needs to be FF. Tom C. From: Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:08:13 -0400 How many times has Tom said that over the last five years:-)). Paul On Oct 16, 2007, at 12:10 AM, Tom C wrote: LOL. You're not breaking it to me. I was being kind. :-) Pentax has a slim chance yet to recover. If they blow it in the next 6 - 12 months though, I susect they are done for. Tom C. From: Mark Erickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: pdml pdml@pdml.net Subject: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:59:17 -0400 I hate to break it to you, but in the USA, Pentax *is* a 2nd tier camera company. The company hasn't released a truly professional system camera here (or anywhere, actually) since the LX. The current high-end Pentax lens selection is miniscule compared to Canon and Nikon. Pentax does not provide the kind of professional support that Canon and Nikon do at major sporting events. Pentax products lack presence on store shelves in the USA. Etc. Tom C wrote: - Original Message - From: John Sessoms Subject: Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ? If memory serves the other two are an over-priced Nissan and an over-priced Honda. I guess that depends on what your personal comfort is worth. William Robb My analogy was not about price, it was about image, prestige, perception in the market place. Sure a FF DSLR will cost more than one with an APS-C size sensor. If the Canons, Nikon's, Sony's of the world offer FF DSLR's, then Pentax must also. If they do not, they will relegate themselves to a 2nd tier camera company, and it doesn't matter who loves their camera, or how much it satisfies their current needs. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
On Oct 16, 2007, at 6:46 AM, Steve Desjardins wrote: Canon (and Nikon, but especially Canon) will always be ahead of Pentax in feature-rich body design since they have so much more RD money. Not always true. Neither Canon nor Nikon have Pentax' MTF program line, and Sv, TAv exposure modes as far as I'm aware. The real question is convergence. At what point will all DSLR bodies be good enough to make extra features irrelevant to all but the very top end? I suspect that AF will evolve the longest, rather than sensor design. Personally, I feel that point has happened already. It depends a lot on what you're after, what you need or want. I look for core competencies: imaging quality, noise, lens qualities. I don't really care much about high speed sequence capture, AF, etc. For me, most of the DSLRs available since the introduction of the Canon 10D work well enough that my principle discriminators are lens line and control ergonomics, adaptability. Others, with other needs or desires, want more stuff. ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
Libertarian philosophy works well in two places, a position of absolute strength or utopia. Since neither exists it must be modified to match current conditions. I've often thought that pure libertarians lived in utopia, though it's also strange that the first place I heard the execrable words Politically Correct, used in earnest was at a Libertarian meeting. I has always thought of them as Marxist jargon before. Derby Chang wrote: Adam Maas wrote: And to William - I'd probably be a Republican if I was an American, it's a more comfortable party to a small-l libertarian like me. -Adam Republican, libertarian? Really (OK, I'm Australian, but I could raise the same eyebrow about the Liberal Party of Australia, a part of the coalition of the willing) http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PhilosophyOfLiberty-english_music.swf You have the right to seek leaders for yourself, but you do not have the right to impose rulers on others D -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA)?
So these lenses were just introduced for market hype? Joseph Tainter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/16/2007 11:25 AM And, of course, there's AF which is a much more difficult and variable feature than AE and one in which Pentax really fell behind. The big issue here is again the lenses, as the new DA* lenses will bring AF speed much closer to the market leaders. Unfortunately, the DA* lenses don't focus noticeably faster with SDM than with shaft drive. I made it a point to try mine with shaft drive AF for a few days before installing firmware 1.3 and using them with SDM. About a year ago, a Pentax engineer essentially admitted that SDM wouldn't bring faster AF. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. !SIG:4714dc4b60537060471313! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
As you may already know, i don't use Word, Wordperfet OR spell checkers. :-) Dave On 10/16/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't use either MS Word or WordPerfect. Never used either, actually. I do most of my writing in a source code editor or in the Mail editor. But then I only rarely need formatted text. vi, emacs, pico, BBEdit, whatever.. When I do need formatted text, there are better options available than those two barges. Godfrey Tom C wrote: It'll likely be a matter of attrition. What % of people here use WordPerfect as opposed to MS Word? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
I don't use either MS Word or WordPerfect. Never used either, actually. I do most of my writing in a source code editor or in the Mail editor. But then I only rarely need formatted text. vi, emacs, pico, BBEdit, whatever.. When I do need formatted text, there are better options available than those two barges. Godfrey Tom C wrote: It'll likely be a matter of attrition. What % of people here use WordPerfect as opposed to MS Word? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA) ?
That's not his only problem. He has a hard time telling a fool from someone who simply disagrees with him. He also is perfectly willing to project his faults on others. Many of us do this I suppose but William never seems to realize it, which I've found more and more insufferable. John Forbes wrote: On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:22:50 +0100, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well yes it was a pissing match. But I'm not mad a Adam because he wouldn't back down. In fact I learned a few things from him. I just don't agree that they're the whole reason for the high ISO improvements. WW has managed to piss me off enough that he's back in my Kill file with Dobo, Rubinstine(sp), (just in case they ever raise their heads again, and a couple of others who shall remain nameless, because I can't refrain from arguing with them, not because they're bad people). William is mostly just nasty, and revels in it. William's only problem is that he doesn't suffer fools gladly. John -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Next move from Pentax: anyone in the know (even under NDA)?
On Oct 16, 2007, at 9:04 AM, Steve Desjardins wrote: ... So these lenses were just introduced for market hype? I have both DA* lenses on hand to work with at present. Compared to the DA16-45 and DA50-200, they're significantly better built and finished, a stop to two stops faster, and weathersealed. Imaging quality is better IMO, much better between the 50-135 vs 50-200 comparison. Focusing is more accurate and utterly silent, manual focusing is precise and the quickshift works perfectly. Faster ... eh? not important to me. They're a bit on the bulky side. Personally, i still prefer my prime kit of 14, 21, 43 and 70 over the shorter zoom. I like my camera to be smaller and lighter, the DA* zoom is pretty bulky. I like the longer zoom as it covers any need I might have for a longer lens than the DA70 with reasonable speed and the imaging quality is excellent: a good replacement for the FA135/2.8 although a lot more bulky. For the little I use such long focal lengths, it does well. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
