subject:"RE\: Semi OT\-Street Photography survey"

I recently used the *istD with the M40 (no grip) and I found this to be
an execellnet walking around camera in a city.  It's fairly samll and
the shutter/mirro noise is pretty quiet (by comaprison).  The biggest
probelm is that most of the samllest lenses are no longer wide angles,
but I tend to prefer short tele's anyway.   I don't own a 35 or a 28 so
I can't speak about this.  What's the smallest (good) 28?


Steven Desjardins
Department of Chemistry
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, VA 24450
(540) 458-8873
FAX: (540) 458-8878
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

We had a thread a while back where some objected to the use of
photographs for digital.  Since you gotta call'em somethin', the word
image has become handy.

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/22/04 12:43PM 
I hate using the word images instead of photographs, yet
it's becoming so common that I find myself using it
sometimes, and I REALLY dislike that!

Bob W wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
  ...street photography (God, do I hate that term
  and description!) ...

 What other photographic terms do people hate? Don't hold back now!

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

In many contexts the use of terms like street of nature or
portrait  simply refer to shooting under specific conditions or for
certain subject types that change the nature of the equipment.  Of
course, people being people, we often shorten the phrase to refer to the
condition/subjects or even equipment in a quick way.  Even if we don't'
like the connotations of a term like street photography, it is useful.
 Notice how most of the folks in this thread knew  what sort of
equipment combinations and conditions were being considered.

The real trick is, as with anything, is not to take yourself too
seriously . . .

By the way, I favor using the term photograph  all around and
specifying film or digital when the distinction is needed.   Image
is just too general a term for my taste, although I'm sure I've used it.
 Of course, there's always picture. . .  ;-)


Steven Desjardins
Department of Chemistry
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, VA 24450
(540) 458-8873
FAX: (540) 458-8878
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-23 Thread Mark Roberts

Steve Desjardins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I don't own a 35 or a 28 so I can't speak about this. 
What's the smallest (good) 28?

I think the M28/3.5 is probably the smallest. I have one and it's
outstanding.

-- 
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-23 Thread ernreed2

Steve said (at least, I think it was Steve, sorry if I'm wrong):
 We had a thread a while back where some objected to the use of
 photographs for digital.  Since you gotta call'em somethin', the word
 image has become handy.
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/22/04 12:43PM 
 I hate using the word images instead of photographs, yet
 it's becoming so common that I find myself using it
 sometimes, and I REALLY dislike that!


Wot the heck is wrong with the good ol'fashioned term PICTURES?

ERN

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

I think I mentioned pictures.  It's a general term, like image, and
can refer to painting as well.  It's fine in context, however.


Steven Desjardins
Department of Chemistry
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, VA 24450
(540) 458-8873
FAX: (540) 458-8878
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/23/04 10:31AM 
Steve said (at least, I think it was Steve, sorry if I'm wrong):
 We had a thread a while back where some objected to the use of
 photographs for digital.  Since you gotta call'em somethin', the
word
 image has become handy.
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/22/04 12:43PM 
 I hate using the word images instead of photographs, yet
 it's becoming so common that I find myself using it
 sometimes, and I REALLY dislike that!


Wot the heck is wrong with the good ol'fashioned term PICTURES?

ERN

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

I've tried to find one of these but they seem to be somewhat rare, at
least when compared with the 2.8 versions.  The folklore is that all of
the 28 2.8's are mediocre at best.  Is that a shared opinion?

There are many M42 versions out there, however.


Steven Desjardins
Department of Chemistry
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, VA 24450
(540) 458-8873
FAX: (540) 458-8878
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/23/04 08:50AM 
Steve Desjardins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I don't own a 35 or a 28 so I can't speak about this. 
What's the smallest (good) 28?

I think the M28/3.5 is probably the smallest. I have one and it's
outstanding.

-- 
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-23 Thread Gianfranco Irlanda


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm doing some research on the topic of street photography and
the question has several parts. The first, to keep it on topic,
is what Pentax camera and lens(es) make the best street shooting
combo and why? Pop Photo just did and article on street
photography and mentioned the K1000 and a 50mm f2, if I remember
correctly, as a good option if you can't run out and buy a Leica
M7.

Hi Jim and all,

First, thanks to Frank, Tan, Tom and Shel (and others?) for
mentioning me, you made my day!
Second, back to Jim's questions. I think somebody already
mentioned the MX+40/2.8 combo, a very good and small way to do
street (or whatever you may call it) photography. About the
K-1000, for a very long time it and a 50/1.7 were my main,
carry-everywhere, equipment, although I have to say that 90% of
the pictures I take in the streets are (and were) made with a
Yashica T5 (T4 Super, a T4 before then), which is unbeatable due
to its waist level finder. Sometimes I do avoid completely to
use any of its finders and simply point the camera in the
direction of the scene, I have enough experience to know quite
well what will be in the frame.
The level of noise from the camera is not that important unless
you live in a very silent city...
I wouldn't compare directly a rangefinder camera to an SLR. An
interesting advantage of the Leicas (and other 'ancient looking'
cameras) is their unconspicuous look.
 
 The second part would be who is your favorite street shooter,
past or present, and why?

I would be guilty not mentioning HCB and Robert Doisneau, but I
must say that a photographer that inspired me when I was
beginning is Alain Volut, a Naples-based French photographer,
with its work 'Dietro l'angolo', literally 'Around the Corner'.
Why? Well, I guess the way he was able to catch the soul of the
streets of Naples, without being rhetorical.

Ciao,

Gianfranco

=
To read is to travel without all the hassles of luggage. 

---Emilio Salgari (1863-1911)




__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-23 Thread ernreed2

Steven said:
 I think I mentioned pictures.  It's a general term, like image, and
 can refer to painting as well.  It's fine in context, however.
 
 
 Steven Desjardins
 Department of Chemistry
 Washington and Lee University
 Lexington, VA 24450
 (540) 458-8873
 FAX: (540) 458-8878
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/23/04 10:31AM 
 Steve said (at least, I think it was Steve, sorry if I'm wrong):
  We had a thread a while back where some objected to the use of
  photographs for digital.  Since you gotta call'em somethin', the
 word
  image has become handy.
  
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/22/04 12:43PM 
  I hate using the word images instead of photographs, yet
  it's becoming so common that I find myself using it
  sometimes, and I REALLY dislike that!
 
 
 Wot the heck is wrong with the good ol'fashioned term PICTURES?
 
 ERN
 


You did, indeed! In a post that I saw just after I sent this one  :-(

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-23 Thread Cotty

On 23/4/04, ERN, discombobulated, offered:

Wot the heck is wrong with the good ol'fashioned term PICTURES?

Moving or still ?


8-D


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps
_

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-23 Thread mike wilson

Mine's a bit more off-the-wall.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:-)

Watch out for my PUG photo in May.

DagT


Fra: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Shel,
I can play, too:
http://www.kirschten.de/PUG/04apr/t_brush.html

(taken from this month's PUG)
HAR!!
-frank


From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Environmental Imagery ... actually, there's a term that's
bantered about - Environmental Portraiture - that is used to
describe portraits taken in informal, outdoors setting.
BTW, here's some real street photography:

http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/images/sidewalk.html

It's even made with a Leica LOL

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

Hi,

 I'm doing some research on the topic of street photography and the question has 
 several parts. The first,
 to keep it on topic, is what Pentax camera and lens(es) make the best street 
 shooting combo
 and why? Pop Photo just did and article on street photography and mentioned the 
 K1000 and a 50mm f2, if
 I remember correctly, as a good option if you can't run out and buy a Leica M7.

The MX with a small lens such as the M35/2, M40/2.8 or M50/1.4 is very
good because it's small, unobtrusive and very quick to use.

 The second part would be who is your favorite street shooter, past or present, and 
 why?

If forced to make a decision I would probably choose Cartier-Bresson.
Although he didn't invent the field he brought it to a state of almost
perfection. He went beyond the fascination with the ordinary,
which I think was a hallmark of his predecessors and occasionally
looked like twee 'genre' painting, and brought that type of
photography into the mainstream of 20th century art by revealing a
world beyond the ordinary. He very clearly continues the traditions of
late 19th century art and thought, but, like the other main figures in
the art of the pre-war years, radically changed that tradition and changed
completely and forever the way we see the world. He is the only photographer
who has ever been an artist of the first rank.

I apologise of this all sounds very pretentious

 I guess a third part would be, do you have a favorite street photo web site or email 
 list?

www.magnumphotos.com

-- 
Cheers,
 Bob

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

Hi Malcom ...

Not to put too fine a point on it, the M7 is a recent Leica,
only a year or two (at most) on the market. 20+ years ago
you'd have been using an M4-series, or older.

One thing that makes a Leica (and other RF cameras) better
than an SLR for street photography (God, do I hate that term
and description!) is that you can see outside the frame
lines, which means you can see what's coming into the frame
and what's surrounding it, allowing for better composition
in fast changing environments.  There are other factors as
well, but I'll leave them be for now ... although, I will
say that all too often an SLR is too big or too noisy, or
both, for certain situations.

Personally, I like the MX quite a bit for those times when
an SLR is a good choice.  It's a nice compliment to the
Leica, especially with certain lenses, like the M50/1.4 or
the K35/2.5 or 28/3.5.  The FA* 43mm is a superb choice (in
fact, it's also made in a Leica thread mount  ahh!) and
I suspect the FA* 77mm would be fine as well.

shel

Malcolm Smith wrote:
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I'm doing some research on the topic of street photography
  and the question has several parts. The first, to keep it on
  topic, is what Pentax camera and lens(es) make the best
  street shooting combo and why? 
 
 I'm sure the MX and 40mm pancake lens will get a mention, it's a great
 combination. The Leica M7 is a rangefinder (isn't it?) and as I haven't
 owned one for 20+ years, I can't remember why that would be better than an
 SLR.

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Kostas Kavoussanakis

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004, Shel Belinkoff wrote:

 Not to put too fine a point on it, the M7 is a recent Leica,
 only a year or two (at most) on the market. 20+ years ago
 you'd have been using an M4-series, or older.

What he meant is he hasn't used a rangefinder in 20+ years.

 One thing that makes a Leica (and other RF cameras) better
 than an SLR for street photography (God, do I hate that term
 and description!) is that you can see outside the frame
 lines, which means you can see what's coming into the frame
 and what's surrounding it, allowing for better composition
 in fast changing environments.

Can you explain this a bit more please? Why is aiming different?

The other thing I would add is that with a wideangle lens and assuming
the right light conditions, one can set the aperture to 8 or 11 and
forget about focusing, just think about the picture.

Kostas

RE: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Amita Guha

 Pop Photo just did and article 
 on street photography and mentioned the K1000 and a 50mm f2, 

The K1000 wouldn't be my first choice for street photography because the
mirror slap is horrendous. Of course, I've tried it anyway. :)

My favorite camera for street photography is my old Yashicamat TLR. The
shutter is quiet because there's no mirror, and you're not actually
looking AT people, you're looking down into the waist finder, so I think
that helps.

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

Hi,

 ...street photography (God, do I hate that term
 and description!) ...

Hooray! Yes, I hate it too. It carries such a lot of baggage: inverse
snobbery, political correctness, self-satisfied superiority, self-regarding
capital-A artiness, I suffer for the truth undergraduate bullshit,
with a pathetic claim of imagined bravery in the face of pretend
danger, practiced mostly by posers enthralled by their own off-the-peg image
of urban grit.

And it's not just the term.

Most 'street photography' is itself pointless, exploitative, vacuous crap
masquerading as insight and concern, but hiding a boundless vapidity.
Its pompous, pseudo-profundity is chaff thrown out to hide the true
depths of its shallowness.

Present company excepted, of course.

I also hate the term 'travel photography', for some of the same
reasons, then a few others on top.

What other photographic terms do people hate? Don't hold back now!

-- 
Cheers,
 Bob

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Peter J. Alling

I really like the Kodak Retina IIc for that, everything a camera needs 
except a meter.  Good range finder
Quite shutter folds into a small pocketable package. It doesn't look 
like a modern camera so no one takes
it seriously.  Unfortunately the example I have is a bit worn and I'm 
afraid every time I cock it's shutter will be
the last.

Amita Guha wrote:

Pop Photo just did and article 
on street photography and mentioned the K1000 and a 50mm f2, 
   

The K1000 wouldn't be my first choice for street photography because the
mirror slap is horrendous. Of course, I've tried it anyway. :)
My favorite camera for street photography is my old Yashicamat TLR. The
shutter is quiet because there's no mirror, and you're not actually
looking AT people, you're looking down into the waist finder, so I think
that helps.

RE: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread brooksdj

I dont do a whole lot of it, but if i go into Toronto i usually do the same,take my
Yashica-Mat. I take a 
general meter reading and look down,shuffle my feet,look at a map etc when i focus.The
leaf shutter is 
to quiet to be heard on a busy street corner.

Plus the lens on it is quite good

Dave

  Pop Photo just did and article 
  on street photography and mentioned the K1000 and a 50mm f2, 
 
 The K1000 wouldn't be my first choice for street photography because the
 mirror slap is horrendous. Of course, I've tried it anyway. :)
 
 My favorite camera for street photography is my old Yashicamat TLR. The
 shutter is quiet because there's no mirror, and you're not actually
 looking AT people, you're looking down into the waist finder, so I think
 that helps.

RE: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Malcolm Smith

Shel Belinkoff wrote:

 Not to put too fine a point on it, the M7 is a recent Leica, 
 only a year or two (at most) on the market. 20+ years ago 
 you'd have been using an M4-series, or older.

I didn't word that too well, what I meant was it's 20+ years since I had a
rangefinder camera - it certainly wasn't a Leica, but back then I couldn't
afford a Pentax. I can't remember who did make it, but it was a present for
my 13th birthday and was used years later as a p/ex for my first Pentax MX.
This will annoy me now, until I remember - I do know it was my second choice
of camera, as I didn't have enough for the Zenit E :-)
 
 One thing that makes a Leica (and other RF cameras) better 
 than an SLR for street photography (God, do I hate that term 
 and description!) is that you can see outside the frame 
 lines, which means you can see what's coming into the frame 
 and what's surrounding it, allowing for better composition in 
 fast changing environments.  There are other factors as well, 
 but I'll leave them be for now ... although, I will say that 
 all too often an SLR is too big or too noisy, or both, for 
 certain situations.

Thanks, all noted.

I agree with you about the term 'street photography', but most of the
alternative descriptions are pretty ghastly too. Perhaps someone can come up
with a better description? 
 
 Personally, I like the MX quite a bit for those times when an 
 SLR is a good choice.  It's a nice compliment to the Leica, 
 especially with certain lenses, like the M50/1.4 or the 
 K35/2.5 or 28/3.5.  The FA* 43mm is a superb choice (in fact, 
 it's also made in a Leica thread mount  ahh!) and I 
 suspect the FA* 77mm would be fine as well.

Both the FA* 43  77mm are on my wish list.

Malcolm

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

I hate using the word images instead of photographs, yet
it's becoming so common that I find myself using it
sometimes, and I REALLY dislike that!

Bob W wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
  ...street photography (God, do I hate that term
  and description!) ...

 What other photographic terms do people hate? Don't hold back now!

Retina (was Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey)

2004-04-22 Thread Collin Brendemuehl

I've had/seen several Retina bodies (IIIc) but have never had a IIa or IIc.  How do 
they differ from the IIIc?

Cord has some nice old Schneider Retina lenses if anyone is interested.  And they 
include the original plastic cases!

No mention yet of the (ever-so-popular) Canon G-III QL17 rangefinder.  While I don't 
do street shooting, it would seem good for that function.  Quiet and compact.

CRB 





Sent via the WebMail system at mail.safe-t.net

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Rob Studdert

On 22 Apr 2004 at 9:53, Keith Whaley wrote:

 Hey, Shel, no problem here! Images for digital, and photographs for 
 film.
 I think I've always followed that personal preference...

To my mind they are all images, like ship/plane/cars are transport.


Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

Then hop in your image and drive to Brisbane LOL

Rob Studdert wrote:

  Hey, Shel, no problem here! Images for digital, and photographs for
  film.
  I think I've always followed that personal preference...
 
 To my mind they are all images, like ship/plane/cars are transport.

Re: Retina (was Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey)



Collin Brendemuehl wrote:

I've had/seen several Retina bodies (IIIc) but have never 
 had a IIa or IIc.  How do they differ from the IIIc?
Cord has some nice old Schneider Retina lenses if anyone 
 is interested.  And they include the original plastic cases!

These are probably for use with the Retina IIIs or Retina Reflex.
Beautiful lenses they are...
BTW, who's Cord? That name doesn't ring a bell...
No mention yet of the (ever-so-popular) Canon G-III QL17 
rangefinder.  While I don't do street shooting, it would
 seem good for that function.  Quiet and compact.
CRB 
The similarity is great, actually.

The IIa had a 50mm f/2.0 Retina-Xenon lens.
The IIc had a 50mm Xenon-C or Heligon-C with a replaceable
front element, to make it an 80mm f/4.0 or 35mm
f/5.6 W.A. lens, and an LVS scale added.
The IIIc had a built-in light meter, same lens as above.
I think this one was slightly larger body, but I'd
have to confirm that with my Retina book. (Or, lazy
me, I'd only have to take both out to measure them!)
The IIIC was a IIIc with viewfinder enlarged to accept bright
frame lines for standard, wide-angle and telephoto lenses.
keith whaley

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread mike wilson

Hi,

Bob W wrote:

What other photographic terms do people hate? Don't hold back now!
If you mean titles, then portrait photographer rather makes me itch. 
It always brings a mental picture of someone like Kenneth Williams in 
the Hancock programme, probably with a name like Baron.

Yes, I know he was a real one..

mike

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Eactivist

In a message dated 4/22/2004 9:56:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Knowledgable sales staff.

Dave
--
ROFL!

Marnie aka Laughing Doe

Re: Retina (was Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey)

2004-04-22 Thread Joe Wilensky

I've had quite a few Retinas over time, from the scale-focusing early 
models to a Ib, a IIc, and currently a IIa. I like the IIa the best 
because of the wonderful f/2 lens and the traditional Retina 
styling -- from the IIc onward (IIIc and then the big c models, IIC 
and IIIC), the wind levers were on the bottom of the camera and the 
bodies were a bit larger and bulkier.

I even had the telephoto lens and auxillary finder for the IIc, but 
the Retina is such a cumbersome and unfriendly camera that way that 
it loses all its benefits (small size, unobtrusive, quick focus). A 
Retina is best, IMO, when it can be folded up when needed and put in 
a pocket but also ready for action. The shutters are whisper quiet, 
and it's the smallest camera I've ever owned with a lens that fast.

The viewfinders are small and squinty, and this is where the Canonet 
and similar '70s rangefinders have an advantage (although most newer 
cameras have the advantage of built-in lightmeters). But the Retinas 
flash synch up to 1/300 or 1/500, (I can't remember their top speed 
now) and can operate in quick point-and-shoot mode. There is even a 
frame-type sportsfinder available for them (with parallax 
adjustment!).

One of the first times I used my Retina IIa was on a day trip to 
Manhattan with a trip to see The Producers on Broadway that night. 
A few nice shots, and I could shoot easily at about 1/60 to 1/125 at 
f/2.8 in Times Square at night on 400 speed film. When not in use, it 
slipped easily into my jacket pocket.

For a nice writeup of the Retina IIa, see Stephen Gandy's page at:
http://www.cameraquest.com/retIIa.htm
Joe


Collin Brendemuehl wrote:

I've had/seen several Retina bodies (IIIc) but have never
 had a IIa or IIc.  How do they differ from the IIIc?

Cord has some nice old Schneider Retina lenses if anyone
  is interested.  And they include the original plastic cases!

These are probably for use with the Retina IIIs or Retina Reflex.
Beautiful lenses they are...
BTW, who's Cord? That name doesn't ring a bell...
No mention yet of the (ever-so-popular) Canon G-III QL17
rangefinder.  While I don't do street shooting, it would
 seem good for that function.  Quiet and compact.
CRB
The similarity is great, actually.

The IIa had a 50mm f/2.0 Retina-Xenon lens.
The IIc had a 50mm Xenon-C or Heligon-C with a replaceable
front element, to make it an 80mm f/4.0 or 35mm
f/5.6 W.A. lens, and an LVS scale added.
The IIIc had a built-in light meter, same lens as above.
I think this one was slightly larger body, but I'd
have to confirm that with my Retina book. (Or, lazy
me, I'd only have to take both out to measure them!)
The IIIC was a IIIc with viewfinder enlarged to accept bright
frame lines for standard, wide-angle and telephoto lenses.
keith whaley

Re: Retina (was Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey)

2004-04-22 Thread Collin Brendemuehl

Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:03:51 -0700 
From: Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Collin Brendemuehl wrote: 

 I've had/seen several Retina bodies (IIIc) but have never 
 had a IIa or IIc.  How do they differ from the IIIc? 

 Cord has some nice old Schneider Retina lenses if anyone 
 is interested.  And they include the original plastic cases! 

These are probably for use with the Retina IIIs or Retina Reflex. 
Beautiful lenses they are... 
BTW, who's Cord? That name doesn't ring a bell... 

Cord Camera Centers is a regional chain.
Their 5th Ave. store in Columbus is my source for 
many, many bargains.  Like that load of outdated film
and paper each of the past 2 years.  And a 90WR
for a PDMLer a couple of weeks ago.  And a K105/2.8
about 2 years ago.  They buy and sell a lot of used
equipment.

The similarity is great, actually. 

The IIa had a 50mm f/2.0 Retina-Xenon lens. 
The IIc had a 50mm Xenon-C or Heligon-C with a replaceable 
front element, to make it an 80mm f/4.0 or 35mm 
f/5.6 W.A. lens, and an LVS scale added. 
The IIIc had a built-in light meter, same lens as above. 
I think this one was slightly larger body, but I'd 
have to confirm that with my Retina book. (Or, lazy 
me, I'd only have to take both out to measure them!) 
The IIIC was a IIIc with viewfinder enlarged to accept bright 
frame lines for standard, wide-angle and telephoto lenses. 

keith whaley 

Thanks,

Collin 

Sent via the WebMail system at mail.safe-t.net

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread mike wilson

Cotty wrote:
On 22/4/04, MIKE W, discombobulated, offered:


portrait photographer rather makes me itch. 
It always brings a mental picture of someone like Kenneth Williams in 
the Hancock programme, probably with a name like Baron.


Hilary St. Claire !
shudder

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread William Johnson

I just inherited one of these, and it is quite nice.  A little more fall off
in the lens than I would like to see, but it is quite sharp.  I see the lack
of autowinder (although supposedly one can be added to it) a feature, rather
than a liability.

William in Utah.
- Original Message - 
From: Andre Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

snip

 Non-SLR choices:

 Pentax PC35 (35mm f2.8)

 Sharp lenses, some distorsion in the 32mm lens, very low noise.  PC35
 has no auto-winding (neither auto-rewinding).  Less noise than a
 Leica.

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread frank theriault

Bob,

Don't hold back, now.  Tell us what you ~really~ think!!  vbg

But, seriously, since I do walk the streets with my camera, and take 
photographs whilst doing so, how should I describe it?

I don't describe myself as a Street Photographer, but that's because I'd 
prefer not to limit myself - and it does sound awfully pompous.  However, 
when asked what type of photography I do, I'll often mention street 
photography as something I think I'm not bad at.

I'm not trying to be politically correct or anything (why start now? g), 
but does anyone have any ideas?  Urban photography?  Nah, that sounds just 
as bad...

cheers,
frank


The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds.  The pessimist 
fears it is true.  -J. Robert Oppenheimer




From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:51:24 +0100
Hi,

 ...street photography (God, do I hate that term
 and description!) ...
Hooray! Yes, I hate it too. It carries such a lot of baggage: inverse
snobbery, political correctness, self-satisfied superiority, self-regarding
capital-A artiness, I suffer for the truth undergraduate bullshit,
with a pathetic claim of imagined bravery in the face of pretend
danger, practiced mostly by posers enthralled by their own off-the-peg 
image
of urban grit.

And it's not just the term.

Most 'street photography' is itself pointless, exploitative, vacuous crap
masquerading as insight and concern, but hiding a boundless vapidity.
Its pompous, pseudo-profundity is chaff thrown out to hide the true
depths of its shallowness.
Present company excepted, of course.

I also hate the term 'travel photography', for some of the same
reasons, then a few others on top.
What other photographic terms do people hate? Don't hold back now!

--
Cheers,
 Bob
_
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines

OT: Scrabble (was Re: Retina (was Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey)

Hi,

 annsan corrupting photographers with scrabble
 everywhere

I don't know how things are over on your side of the dpno, but over
here we are all in a state of original sin, Scrabblistically, and
therefore un-(or not-further-)corruptible. Playing Scrabble with an
elderly relative (or playing Scrabble with a younger relative - these
things are all, er, relative) at least one evening a week is a sure
sign of being middle class. If there's any doubt at all then an
inordinate fondness for the Mayor of Wetwang
(http://www.tv-celebrity.co.uk/game-show/richard-whiteley.htm)
and his show confirms it.

-- 
Cheers,
 Bob (I'll have one off the wrist please, Carol) W.

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

Hi,

Thursday, April 22, 2004, 11:45:42 PM, frank wrote:

 I don't describe myself as a Street Photographer, but that's because I'd
 prefer not to limit myself - and it does sound awfully pompous.

  how should I describe it?

Je fais la chronique de la condition humaine...

:o)

-- 
Salut!
 J. P. Bobre

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread frank theriault

Well, I personally can't see being mentioned in the same breath as those 
others, but thanks, Tom (and everyone else).

I personally love Shel's work, as well as Gianfranco's.  And, Tan, Paul does 
~everything~ well, but maybe he (or someone) can send along his Paris 
gallery.  Some wonderful stuff taken there with his Leica IIIg (is it a g, 
Paul?).

While we're talking people on this list, let's not forget Albano (who 
recently returned, but hasn't been seen for a couple of weeks) and Juan 
Beuhler, who I haven't seen for some time.  Both are incredible street 
imagists HAR.  I know I'm forgetting a few, but there are an amazing 
number of talented photographers on this list, street or otherwise.

cheers,
frank
The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds.  The pessimist 
fears it is true.  -J. Robert Oppenheimer




From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
snip
3. Some fairly neat folks doing street stuff right here on this list. Paul 
Stenquist's stuff is more to my personal taste than anyone else's I have 
seen here, but Frank Theriault and Shel Belinkof seem more productive in 
that area of photography. There are others who do some street stuff as 
well. Gianfranco's stuff comes to mind.

_
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Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread John Forbes

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:21:41 +0100, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


If forced to make a decision I would probably choose Cartier-Bresson.
Although he didn't invent the field he brought it to a state of almost
perfection. He went beyond the fascination with the ordinary,
which I think was a hallmark of his predecessors and occasionally
looked like twee 'genre' painting, and brought that type of
photography into the mainstream of 20th century art by revealing a
world beyond the ordinary. He very clearly continues the traditions of
late 19th century art and thought, but, like the other main figures in
the art of the pre-war years, radically changed that tradition and 
changed
completely and forever the way we see the world. He is the only 
photographer
who has ever been an artist of the first rank.
Amen to that.  I agree with every word.

John

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

Hi,

  I agree with you about the term 'street photography', but
 most of the 
  alternative descriptions are pretty ghastly too. Perhaps 
 someone can 
  come up with a better description?
 
 photography?

 Why not?

there was a programme on TV a few months ago about the life and career
of David Bailey. Don McCullin was in it and mentioned more or less the
same thing when he was talking about Bailey's photos of the boat
people in Hong Kong. He said he disliked the categorisation into
'fashion photographer', 'war photographer' or whatever, and made the
point that people like him and Bailey could photograph anything well,
so they were just 'photographers', and proud of it.

-- 
Cheers,
 Bob

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Paul Stenquist

I appreciate being mentioned at all vbg, but seriously my Paris  
folder is only about half street photography. The other half is cliche  
tourist photography. But it was my first time in Paris, so I have an  
excuse g. Paris is at  
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=311283
  I shot all of these with a Leica IIIf and a Summicron 50/2. That  
was fun. But I'll use anything on the street. I've shot some things I  
like with a 400 mm lens (that girl on Venice pier for one). Long lens  
street hotography may be a cheat, but it works.
Paul
On Apr 22, 2004, at 7:06 PM, frank theriault wrote:

Well, I personally can't see being mentioned in the same breath as  
those others, but thanks, Tom (and everyone else).

I personally love Shel's work, as well as Gianfranco's.  And, Tan,  
Paul does ~everything~ well, but maybe he (or someone) can send along  
his Paris gallery.  Some wonderful stuff taken there with his Leica  
IIIg (is it a g, Paul?).

While we're talking people on this list, let's not forget Albano (who  
recently returned, but hasn't been seen for a couple of weeks) and  
Juan Beuhler, who I haven't seen for some time.  Both are incredible  
street imagists HAR.  I know I'm forgetting a few, but there are  
an amazing number of talented photographers on this list, street or  
otherwise.

cheers,
frank
The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds.  The  
pessimist fears it is true.  -J. Robert Oppenheimer




From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED]
snip
3. Some fairly neat folks doing street stuff right here on this list.  
Paul Stenquist's stuff is more to my personal taste than anyone  
else's I have seen here, but Frank Theriault and Shel Belinkof seem  
more productive in that area of photography. There are others who do  
some street stuff as well. Gianfranco's stuff comes to mind.

_
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Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

Environmental Imagery ... actually, there's a term that's
bantered about - Environmental Portraiture - that is used to
describe portraits taken in informal, outdoors setting.

BTW, here's some real street photography:

http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/images/sidewalk.html

It's even made with a Leica LOL

frank theriault wrote:

I'm not trying to be politically correct or anything (why start now? g),
but does anyone have any ideas? Urban photography? Nah, that sounds just
as bad...

cheers,
frank

The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist
fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer

From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:51:24 +0100

Hi,

...street photography (God, do I hate that term
and description!) ...

Hooray! Yes, I hate it too. It carries such a lot of baggage: inverse
snobbery, political correctness, self-satisfied superiority, self-regarding
capital-A artiness, I suffer for the truth undergraduate bullshit,
with a pathetic claim of imagined bravery in the face of pretend
danger, practiced mostly by posers enthralled by their own off-the-peg
image
of urban grit.

And it's not just the term.

Most 'street photography' is itself pointless, exploitative, vacuous crap
masquerading as insight and concern, but hiding a boundless vapidity.
Its pompous, pseudo-profundity is chaff thrown out to hide the true
depths of its shallowness.

Present company excepted, of course.

I also hate the term 'travel photography', for some of the same
reasons, then a few others on top.

What other photographic terms do people hate? Don't hold back now!

--
Cheers,
Bob

_
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Mark Roberts

Bob W wrote:

Most 'street photography' is itself pointless, exploitative, vacuous crap
masquerading as insight and concern, but hiding a boundless vapidity.
Its pompous, pseudo-profundity is chaff thrown out to hide the true
depths of its shallowness.

And Tanya once asked why the women of the list don't get quoted more
often in my compilation of PDML quotations! 

Top *that* Tanya! (BTW: A recent Tanya Mayer quotation has made my list
for 2004.)


-- 
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Mark Roberts

Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Thursday, April 22, 2004, 11:45:42 PM, frank wrote:

 I don't describe myself as a Street Photographer, but that's because I'd
 prefer not to limit myself - and it does sound awfully pompous.

  how should I describe it?

Je fais la chronique de la condition humaine...

That one should have required a CC warning* in the subject line! I
almost soaked my computer keyboard with Boddington's Pub Ale ;-)

* A CC (coffee and cats) warning is a notice that you need put down
all beverages (to avoid soaked keyboards and monitors) and remove all
cats from your lap (to avoid scratches from claws as the cat makes an
emergency exit due to the beverage being spewed) before reading a post.

-- 
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread frank theriault

Shel,

I can play, too:

http://www.kirschten.de/PUG/04apr/t_brush.html

(taken from this month's PUG)

HAR!!

-frank

The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds.  The pessimist 
fears it is true.  -J. Robert Oppenheimer




From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Environmental Imagery ... actually, there's a term that's
bantered about - Environmental Portraiture - that is used to
describe portraits taken in informal, outdoors setting.
BTW, here's some real street photography:

http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/images/sidewalk.html

It's even made with a Leica LOL

_
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Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread graywolf

Street Photography originally meant setting up to taking photos of people on the 
street for two-bits. Much like those guys at fairs do today, only they want 
$15-20 now. I think the photo booths put them out of business long ago. Now try 
finding a photo booth

--

Bob W wrote:

Hi,

Thursday, April 22, 2004, 5:37:33 PM, Malcolm wrote:



I agree with you about the term 'street photography', but most of the
alternative descriptions are pretty ghastly too. Perhaps someone can come up
with a better description? 


photography?

--
graywolf
http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html

Re: Retina (was Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey)

2004-04-22 Thread Peter J. Alling

The IIc is a meter less IIIc the space taken by the meter is, well it's 
gone.  Makes for a somewhat more compact body.  The IIa if I remember
correctly has a fixed f2.0 lens in place of the interchangeable lenses 
on the IIc and IIIc.

Collin Brendemuehl wrote:

I've had/seen several Retina bodies (IIIc) but have never had a IIa or IIc.  How do they differ from the IIIc?

Cord has some nice old Schneider Retina lenses if anyone is interested.  And they include the original plastic cases!

No mention yet of the (ever-so-popular) Canon G-III QL17 rangefinder.  While I don't do street shooting, it would seem good for that function.  Quiet and compact.

CRB 




Sent via the WebMail system at mail.safe-t.net

Re: Retina (was Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey)

2004-04-22 Thread Peter J. Alling

The IIIC also came with a f2.0 50mm as well, IIRC.

Keith Whaley wrote:



Collin Brendemuehl wrote:

I've had/seen several Retina bodies (IIIc) but have never 
 had a IIa or IIc.  How do they differ from the IIIc?

Cord has some nice old Schneider Retina lenses if anyone 
 is interested.  And they include the original plastic cases!

These are probably for use with the Retina IIIs or Retina Reflex.
Beautiful lenses they are...
BTW, who's Cord? That name doesn't ring a bell...
No mention yet of the (ever-so-popular) Canon G-III QL17 
rangefinder.  While I don't do street shooting, it would
 seem good for that function.  Quiet and compact.
CRB 


The similarity is great, actually.

The IIa had a 50mm f/2.0 Retina-Xenon lens.
The IIc had a 50mm Xenon-C or Heligon-C with a replaceable
front element, to make it an 80mm f/4.0 or 35mm
f/5.6 W.A. lens, and an LVS scale added.
The IIIc had a built-in light meter, same lens as above.
I think this one was slightly larger body, but I'd
have to confirm that with my Retina book. (Or, lazy
me, I'd only have to take both out to measure them!)
The IIIC was a IIIc with viewfinder enlarged to accept bright
frame lines for standard, wide-angle and telephoto lenses.
keith whaley

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread graywolf

No, Shel, that is sidewalk photography. GRIN

Shel Belinkoff wrote:

Environmental Imagery ... actually, there's a term that's
bantered about - Environmental Portraiture - that is used to
describe portraits taken in informal, outdoors setting.
BTW, here's some real street photography:

http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/images/sidewalk.html

It's even made with a Leica LOL

frank theriault wrote:


I'm not trying to be politically correct or anything (why start now? g),
but does anyone have any ideas?  Urban photography?  Nah, that sounds just
as bad...
cheers,
frank
The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds.  The pessimist
fears it is true.  -J. Robert Oppenheimer

From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:51:24 +0100
Hi,


...street photography (God, do I hate that term
and description!) ...
Hooray! Yes, I hate it too. It carries such a lot of baggage: inverse
snobbery, political correctness, self-satisfied superiority, self-regarding
capital-A artiness, I suffer for the truth undergraduate bullshit,
with a pathetic claim of imagined bravery in the face of pretend
danger, practiced mostly by posers enthralled by their own off-the-peg
image
of urban grit.
And it's not just the term.

Most 'street photography' is itself pointless, exploitative, vacuous crap
masquerading as insight and concern, but hiding a boundless vapidity.
Its pompous, pseudo-profundity is chaff thrown out to hide the true
depths of its shallowness.
Present company excepted, of course.

I also hate the term 'travel photography', for some of the same
reasons, then a few others on top.
What other photographic terms do people hate? Don't hold back now!

--
Cheers,
Bob
_
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines



--
graywolf
http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread ernreed2

Andre said, among other things:
 Certainly a black MX or black ME (the most quiet M camera if I 
 remember) would be a more discreet camera.

Not a lot of noise difference between MX and ME Super, to my ear. Or perhaps I 
should say, more accurately, between Ken Archer's ME Super and my MX. Just to 
make room for sample variation. :-)

ERN

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey



Bob W wrote:

Hi,

Thursday, April 22, 2004, 11:45:42 PM, frank wrote:


I don't describe myself as a Street Photographer, but that's because I'd
prefer not to limit myself - and it does sound awfully pompous.


how should I describe it?


Je fais la chronique de la condition humaine...

:o)
Of course, but other than that?  g

keith

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey



Shel Belinkoff wrote:

Environmental Imagery ... actually, there's a term that's
bantered about - Environmental Portraiture - that is used to
describe portraits taken in informal, outdoors setting.
BTW, here's some real street photography:

http://home.earthlink.net/~scbelinkoff/images/sidewalk.html

It's even made with a Leica LOL
And, the person even put a period after his scrawl?
Amazing. Says something about him or her, if I could figure out what!
keith

[...]

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Boris Liberman

Hi!

I cannot answer your first question as I don't do much of street
photography though I am standing and hesitating and fumbling and
humbling all over it... (Hope I did not misuse the language again
g).

jjc The second part would be who is your favorite street
jjc shooter, past or present, and why?

Frank and Shel of course. Simply because I can argue with them
directly g...

jjc I guess a third part would be, do you have a favorite
jjc street photo web site or email list?

www.magnusphotos.com

Hope that makes sense (HTMS?!)


Boris
([EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED])

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Boris Liberman

Hi!

SB I got 20 shots off ...  Oh, is the subject dead, or did
SB you just carefully bracket your exposures?

Nope, subject is on their way to the optometrist to check fl-a/e-sh
damage.

ROFL.

Boris
([EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED])

Re: OT: Scrabble (was Re: Retina (was Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey)

2004-04-22 Thread Ann Sanfedele

Bob W wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
  annsan corrupting photographers with scrabble
  everywhere
 
 I don't know how things are over on your side of the dpno, but over
 here we are all in a state of original sin, Scrabblistically, and
 therefore un-(or not-further-)corruptible. Playing Scrabble with an
 elderly relative (or playing Scrabble with a younger relative - these
 things are all, er, relative) at least one evening a week is a sure
 sign of being middle class.

Boy, you gotta read Word Freak tourney players
ain't too middle class :)
annsan eschews middle class 

 If there's any doubt at all then an
 inordinate fondness for the Mayor of Wetwang
 (http://www.tv-celebrity.co.uk/game-show/richard-whiteley.htm)
 and his show confirms it.
 
 --
um didnt see much Scrabble content there... :(


 Cheers,
  Bob (I'll have one off the wrist please, Carol) W.

serceh, nnnsaa

Re: Retina (was Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey)



Peter J. Alling wrote:

The IIIC also came with a f2.0 50mm as well, IIRC.
I didn't particularly want to start quoting specs, but yes, you're 
right, the 50mm f/2.0 Retina-Xenon C was mounted on both the IIIc and 
IIIC Retina III's that were exported to the U.S. of A.

Interestingly, my copy of McKeown's price guide of 1987-'88 says the 
IIIc came with an f/2.8 lens, but does not menton the f/2 version.
While that might be true as a separate fact, I have several that 
demonstrably have f/2.0 lenses!  g

It is known that Kodak spec'd the European and American Retinas 
differently -- at least the III's -- so maybe the 2.8 of which McKeown 
speaks was the European or home or non-exportable version.

The whole Retina series is an intriguing subject, one which Retina 
collectors love to get their teeth into...

keith whaley

Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey

2004-04-22 Thread Paul




I'm doing some research on the topic of street photography and the question has 
several parts. The first,to keep it on topic, is what Pentax camera and lens(es) make 
the best street shooting combo
and why? Pop Photo just did and article on street photography and mentioned the K1000 
and a 50mm f2, if
I remember correctly, as a good option if you can't run out and buy a Leica M7.
Probably an MX with a 40/2.8 pancake

The second part would be who is your favorite street shooter, past or present, and why?
   

Gary Winogrand, i like how at a first glance alot of his images just 
look like snaps, but when you look further into the image they are quite 
complex. Also his managed to capture beauty, ugliness and humour in 
everyday scenes.

I guess a third part would be, do you have a favorite street photo web site or email list?
   

Favourite List would be the SP list on Topica and favourite sites would be:
http://www.pinkheadedbug.com
http://www.nouma.com/index.htm
http://www.beeflowers.com
Regards,
Paul

Re: Retina (was Re: Semi OT-Street Photography survey)