Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Paul Stenquist]

 From reading the Leica forums, it seems to be real. But is it good?  
Maybe, maybe not.
Paul
On Aug 26, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Bob Shell wrote:

> Is it real or is it Photoshop?
>
>
> www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?
> attachmentid=31924&d=1156557449
>
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Paul Stenquist]

Yeah, an old Leica film camera is a great thing to have, but I don't  
need an overpriced Leica digital. The K10D will be my main camera for  
quite a while to come, with the *istD as a backup. When the next  
Pentax digital upgrade is released, the D will go and the 10 will  
become the backup. My path is pretty clear right now. But I may very  
well go and shoot some film with my IIIf RD from time to time. My  
Summicron 50/2 won't ever be obsolete.
Paul
On Aug 26, 2006, at 10:15 PM, Juan Buhler wrote:

> The viewfinder alone is the reason I've been shooting more film  
> lately.
>
> But at $5000, it will be hard for me to justify. I'll most probably
> just get a K10D for now.
>
> Maybe Epson/Cosina will put out something similar and cheaper...
>
> j
>
> On 8/26/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>  From reading the Leica forums, it seems to be real. But is it good?
>> Maybe, maybe not.
>> Paul
>> On Aug 26, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Bob Shell wrote:
>>
>>> Is it real or is it Photoshop?
>>>
>>>
>>> www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?
>>> attachmentid=31924&d=1156557449
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Juan Buhler
> Check out my book: http://www.jbuhler.com/book.html
> Water Molotov: http://photoblog.jbuhler.com
> Slippery Slope: http://color.jbuhler.com
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Adam Maas]

Juan Buhler wrote:
> The viewfinder alone is the reason I've been shooting more film lately.
> 
> But at $5000, it will be hard for me to justify. I'll most probably
> just get a K10D for now.
> 
> Maybe Epson/Cosina will put out something similar and cheaper...
> 
> j
> 

They did. The RD-1/RD-1s. Only $3000.

-Adam

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[P. J. Alling]

It seems that link no longer works.

Bob Shell wrote:

>Is it real or is it Photoshop?
>
>
>www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php? 
>attachmentid=31924&d=1156557449
>
>  
>
>  
>


-- 
--

Its easy to understand why the cat has eclipsed the dog as modern America's 
favorite pet. People like pets to possess the same qualities they do. Cats are 
irresponsible and recognize no authority, yet are completely dependent on 
others for their material needs. Cats cannot be made to do anything useful. 
Cats are mean for the fun of it 

P. J. O'Rourke


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

Works fine if you fix the like break.

Try this:

http://tinyurl.com/o94t9

Bob

On Aug 27, 2006, at 2:51 AM, P. J. Alling wrote:

> It seems that link no longer works.
>
> Bob Shell wrote:
>
>> Is it real or is it Photoshop?
>>
>>
>> www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?
>> attachmentid=31924&d=1156557449


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[David Savage]

That doesn't work either.

I get:

"Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please
notify the administrator"

Dave

On 8/27/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Works fine if you fix the like break.
>
> Try this:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/o94t9
>
> Bob

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Mark Roberts]

Bob Shell wrote:

>Works fine if you fix the like break.
>
>Try this:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/o94t9

Both that link and the original give me "Invalid Attachment specified.
If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"
 
-- 
Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com
412-687-2835

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

Must be a problem with your system.  Both work just fine for me.

Bob

On Aug 27, 2006, at 8:24 AM, David Savage wrote:

> That doesn't work either.
>
> I get:
>
> "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please
> notify the administrator"
>
> Dave
>
> On 8/27/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Works fine if you fix the like break.
>>
>> Try this:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/o94t9
>>
>> Bob
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Digital Image Studio]

On 27/08/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Must be a problem with your system.  Both work just fine for me.

Neither link works for me either, but nor am I a member of the board.

-- 
Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Adam Maas]

Neither work for me either, and I am a site member, perhaps they live on 
in yur browser cache?

-Adam


Bob Shell wrote:
> Must be a problem with your system.  Both work just fine for me.
> 
> Bob
> 
> On Aug 27, 2006, at 8:24 AM, David Savage wrote:
> 
> 
>>That doesn't work either.
>>
>>I get:
>>
>>"Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please
>>notify the administrator"
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>On 8/27/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>Works fine if you fix the like break.
>>>
>>>Try this:
>>>
>>>http://tinyurl.com/o94t9
>>>
>>>Bob
>>
>>-- 
>>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>PDML@pdml.net
>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 
> 
> 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Marco Alpert]

Last night I also found the links not to work, but was able to find  
the pics and info by manually navigating to the RFF News forum and  
reading the thread there (and I'm not a member). Trying the same  
thing now, it appears that that thread has disappeared there.

-Marco


On Aug 27, 2006, at 6:58 AM, Adam Maas wrote:

> Neither work for me either, and I am a site member, perhaps they  
> live on
> in yur browser cache?
>
> -Adam
>


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Mark Roberts]

Adam Maas wrote:

>Neither work for me either, and I am a site member, perhaps they live on 
>in yur browser cache?

That's probably what's happening.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com
412-687-2835

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

Nope.  I cleared the cache and both still work.  The tinyurl address  
would not have been cached, anyway, because I only made it today when  
I saw the post about the full URL not working.

Bob

On Aug 27, 2006, at 9:58 AM, Adam Maas wrote:

> Neither work for me either, and I am a site member, perhaps they  
> live on
> in yur browser cache?
>
> -Adam
>
>
> Bob Shell wrote:
>> Must be a problem with your system.  Both work just fine for me.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Aug 27, 2006, at 8:24 AM, David Savage wrote:
>>
>>
>>> That doesn't work either.
>>>
>>> I get:
>>>
>>> "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please
>>> notify the administrator"
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On 8/27/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
 Works fine if you fix the like break.

 Try this:

 http://tinyurl.com/o94t9

 Bob
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Sullivan]

still "Invalid attachment specified...notify administrator"
Regards,  Bob S.

On 8/27/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Nope.  I cleared the cache and both still work.  The tinyurl address
> would not have been cached, anyway, because I only made it today when
> I saw the post about the full URL not working.
>
> Bob
>
> On Aug 27, 2006, at 9:58 AM, Adam Maas wrote:
>
> > Neither work for me either, and I am a site member, perhaps they
> > live on
> > in yur browser cache?
> >
> > -Adam
> >
> >
> > Bob Shell wrote:
> >> Must be a problem with your system.  Both work just fine for me.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >> On Aug 27, 2006, at 8:24 AM, David Savage wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> That doesn't work either.
> >>>
> >>> I get:
> >>>
> >>> "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please
> >>> notify the administrator"
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>> On 8/27/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>
>  Works fine if you fix the like break.
> 
>  Try this:
> 
>  http://tinyurl.com/o94t9
> 
>  Bob
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >>> PDML@pdml.net
> >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Brendan MacRae]

Same here, "invalid..."

-Brendan

--- Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> still "Invalid attachment specified...notify
> administrator"
> Regards,  Bob S.
> 
> On 8/27/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Nope.  I cleared the cache and both still work. 
> The tinyurl address
> > would not have been cached, anyway, because I only
> made it today when
> > I saw the post about the full URL not working.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > On Aug 27, 2006, at 9:58 AM, Adam Maas wrote:
> >
> > > Neither work for me either, and I am a site
> member, perhaps they
> > > live on
> > > in yur browser cache?
> > >
> > > -Adam
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob Shell wrote:
> > >> Must be a problem with your system.  Both work
> just fine for me.
> > >>
> > >> Bob
> > >>
> > >> On Aug 27, 2006, at 8:24 AM, David Savage
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> That doesn't work either.
> > >>>
> > >>> I get:
> > >>>
> > >>> "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed
> a valid link, please
> > >>> notify the administrator"
> > >>>
> > >>> Dave
> > >>>
> > >>> On 8/27/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> >  Works fine if you fix the like break.
> > 
> >  Try this:
> > 
> >  http://tinyurl.com/o94t9
> > 
> >  Bob
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > >>> PDML@pdml.net
> > >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > > PDML@pdml.net
> > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >
> >
> > --
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

On Aug 27, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:

> still "Invalid attachment specified...notify administrator"
> Regards,  Bob S.

OK, I downloaded it and put the damned thing in my PESO folder.  Here  
it is:

http://www.bobshell.com/PESO/m8.jpg

Bob

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Sullivan]

Thanks Bob,
Looks like an expensive way to use your Leica glass!
...I guess that's nothing new.
Regards,  Bob S.

On 8/27/06, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Aug 27, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
>
> > still "Invalid attachment specified...notify administrator"
> > Regards,  Bob S.
>
> OK, I downloaded it and put the damned thing in my PESO folder.  Here
> it is:
>
> http://www.bobshell.com/PESO/m8.jpg
>
> Bob
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Cotty]

On 27/8/06, Bob Shell, discombobulated, unleashed:

>
>OK, I downloaded it and put the damned thing in my PESO folder.  Here  
>it is:
>
>http://www.bobshell.com/PESO/m8.jpg


Oooh. :-)

needs some sort of robust LCD cover though..
-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

On Aug 27, 2006, at 6:37 PM, Cotty wrote:

> Oooh. :-)
>
> needs some sort of robust LCD cover though..

They will sell a special hand-hammered titanium one as an accessory  
for $ 500.00 and another one with Hermes designed silk covering for $  
2,000.00.

Bob

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Douglas Newman]

--- Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<< They will sell a special hand-hammered titanium one
as an accessory for $ 500.00 and another one with
Hermes designed silk covering for $2,000.00. >>

Don't give them any ideas ;-)!

This is why I have little respect these days for
Leica. It seems to me that they build cameras only for
rich camera collectors, not for actual photographers.

I cannot respect any camera that is manufactured
specially to sit in someone's collection, rather than
to actually be used as a camera. For that matter, even
as a collectible, I do not see the value of a camera
made specially to be collected - it is as though the
camera has not "earned" the right to be a valuable
collectible!

Doug

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Mark Roberts]

Douglas Newman wrote:

>--- Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
><< They will sell a special hand-hammered titanium one
>as an accessory for $ 500.00 and another one with
>Hermes designed silk covering for $2,000.00. >>
>
>Don't give them any ideas ;-)!
>
>This is why I have little respect these days for
>Leica. It seems to me that they build cameras only for
>rich camera collectors, not for actual photographers.

My thoughts exactly. They've replaced the ultra-precise,
very-limited-production, mechanical internals of a Leica with
electronics that are essentially a mass-production product. This
camera should cost *less* than a film Leica. But no, it's "digital" so
it has to cost more.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com
412-687-2835

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Digital Image Studio]

On 28/08/06, Douglas Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This is why I have little respect these days for
> Leica. It seems to me that they build cameras only for
> rich camera collectors, not for actual photographers.
>
> I cannot respect any camera that is manufactured
> specially to sit in someone's collection, rather than
> to actually be used as a camera. For that matter, even
> as a collectible, I do not see the value of a camera
> made specially to be collected - it is as though the
> camera has not "earned" the right to be a valuable
> collectible!

It's up to the purchaser to buy a collectible or not, a user can buy a
bog stock body, granted they are expensive but not unreasonably so.
I'm just glad that the collector market is there otherwise they'd have
bit the dust long ago. BTW my most used and beaten M body was a
"collectible" Titanium/Ostrich leather beauty which I travelled the
world with me slung over my shoulder.

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio/temp/P9302147m.JPG

-- 
Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[George Sinos]

Reminds me of what happened to watches in the 1970's.

See you later, gs


On 8/27/06, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Douglas Newman wrote:
>
> My thoughts exactly. They've replaced the ultra-precise,
> very-limited-production, mechanical internals of a Leica with
> electronics that are essentially a mass-production product.
> --
> Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia
> www.robertstech.com
> 412-687-2835
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Paul Stenquist]

Other than Rolex. Still the perpetual movement, no electronics.
Paul
On Aug 27, 2006, at 10:02 PM, George Sinos wrote:

> Reminds me of what happened to watches in the 1970's.
>
> See you later, gs
> 
>
> On 8/27/06, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Douglas Newman wrote:
>>
>> My thoughts exactly. They've replaced the ultra-precise,
>> very-limited-production, mechanical internals of a Leica with
>> electronics that are essentially a mass-production product.
>> --
>> Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia
>> www.robertstech.com
>> 412-687-2835
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Douglas Newman]

--- "Digital Image Studio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<< a user can buy a bog stock body, granted they are
expensive but not unreasonably so. >>

>From B&H:

Leica M7: $3,495
Voigtlander Bessa R3A: $549.95

Is the M7 really worth more than more than SIX times
the price of the R3A?

I find this extremely hard to believe.

There is no doubt that Leica can produce some
magnificent glass and even excellent cameras.
Unfortunately, I find their prices to be absolutely
outrageous...

New Doug

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Digital Image Studio]

On 28/08/06, Douglas Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- "Digital Image Studio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> << a user can buy a bog stock body, granted they are
> expensive but not unreasonably so. >>
>
> >From B&H:
>
> Leica M7: $3,495
> Voigtlander Bessa R3A: $549.95
>
> Is the M7 really worth more than more than SIX times
> the price of the R3A?
>
> I find this extremely hard to believe.
>
> There is no doubt that Leica can produce some
> magnificent glass and even excellent cameras.
> Unfortunately, I find their prices to be absolutely
> outrageous...

If you've owned both you'd know that they aren't the same league of
camera in build or use, same goes for Leica vs new Voigtländer glass.
If you don't have the money then there is no question which poses
better value.

-- 
Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: Digital Leica M8?

[Shel Belinkoff]

New Doug said:

> This is why I have little respect these days for
> Leica. It seems to me that they build cameras only for
> rich camera collectors, not for actual photographers.

> I cannot respect any camera that is manufactured
> specially to sit in someone's collection, rather than
> to actually be used as a camera. For that matter, even
> as a collectible, I do not see the value of a camera
> made specially to be collected - it is as though the
> camera has not "earned" the right to be a valuable
> collectible!

He also asked:

> Is the M7 really worth more than more than SIX times
> the price of the R3A?

> I find this extremely hard to believe.


Leica still builds - and always has built - their basic camera, the current
versions being the M7 and MP variants, as well as a replica Barnack
edition.  The Barnack edition is the least expensive of the three.

Yes, you can buy a dressed up Leica, and there's not a damned thing wrong
with that.  Some people like fancier-looking cameras.  Why, right on this
list there are some people using "designer" Pentax cameras, and Pentax has
also made some limited edition models, such as the gold LX and one or two
anniversary edition LX bodies.  I believe there were also some special
bodies made for the K1000, with different focusing screens and brown
leather coverings, which also sold for a premium.

And let's not forget some of the better-known collectible Nikons - The Gold
Nikon FA  European Gran Prix 1984 Camera of the Year, the Gold Nikon FM
60th Anniversary of Nippon Kogaku,  and the Nikon FM2 Titanium Year of the
Dog  with a total Production only 300 - more than many of the Leica
collectibles.

Further, many of  the real collector edition Leicas are mostly contracted
for by various organizations and, in some cases, individuals, who want to
commemorate an event or try to generate some extra income for themselves or
their organization.  Leica doesn't just build them without special orders. 
For example, there's a doctor in Hong Kong who, over the years,
commissioned Leica to make some special colors (olive drab comes to mind as
one of them) that he resold for a premium to collectors, or just those
users who wanted special colors.

Many Leica owners over the years have modified or customized their cameras
to reflect their unique needs or preferences.  BFD ...  This page may
interest you:

http://www.cameraquest.com/TAnotcoll.htm

And to perhaps anticipate a further objection, that Leicas are over priced
or very expensive, and suited only for the rich user or collector, bear in
mind that Leica has always been expensive.  Why people insist on bashing
Leica as primarily a manufacturer of high-priced collectible cameras seems
a little strange, but the nice thing is that these collectibles put money
in Leica's coffers and allow the company to stay in business.

The Bessa is a piece of mass-produced crap based on a cheap body that
Cosina has been using for a variety of cameras and brands for years.  As I
said before, Leica has always been expensive.  Pick up and use a Bessa and
spend some time with it, and do the same for your basic Leica.  The quality
difference will be obvious.
What makes some Canon and Nikons worth five and six times more than their
entry level cameras?   I find the price difference extremely hard to
believe.


Shel (Leica M3 and custom modified M2 user)




-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[William Robb]

>
>> Is the M7 really worth more than more than SIX times
>> the price of the R3A?
>
>> I find this extremely hard to believe.
>
>
> Leica still builds - and always has built - their basic camera, the 
> current
> versions being the M7 and MP variants, as well as a replica Barnack
> edition.  The Barnack edition is the least expensive of the three.

Something to consider in buying a Leica is the cost per exposure before 
the camera wears out.
>From whay I have heard, Leica is the least expensive camera to use if 
one takes a lot of pictures.
Apparently, they don't wear out.
This would probably be of little interest to a collector.

William Robb 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: Digital Leica M8?

[Brendan MacRae]

--- Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ...  This page may
> interest you:
> 
> http://www.cameraquest.com/TAnotcoll.htm
> 
> 

I love the Kern lens on the Leica...that's too cool. I
want an Alpa just for the Kern lenses. They are so
sharp they will cut you. Kern-Paillard also made
lenses for the Bolex movie cameras. Beautiful,
precision lenses of terrific quality, makes perfect
sense to adapt one to an M6.

The Jerry Garcia Purple Haze M4 Commemorative is
enough to make the Leica purist shudder. Which is, of
course, why it's hillarious!

-Brendan

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Shel Belinkoff]

Indeed ...

Some real "collectible" Leicas:

Elliott Erwitt's M3: 
http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/1941882/channel/4

Gary Winogrand's last M4:
http://www.cameraquest.com/LeicaM4G.htm

Jim Marshall's M4:
http://photo.net/bboard/big-image?bboard_upload_id=20693984

My Leicas are 40+ years old.  The M3 has had one CLA, the M2 has had two,
the second only because I had it modified and, as long as it was in the
shop, it seemed a good idea to go through it, especially since it had been
a l-o-n-g time since its previous CLA.  Interestingly, both cameras tested
within spec even before their most recent CLA experiences.

I also had a 1934 Leica - it was 70 years old and still worked perfectly
when someone made me an offer on it that I couldn't refuse ;-))

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: William Robb

> Something to consider in buying a Leica is the cost per exposure before 
> the camera wears out.
> >From what I have heard, Leica is the least expensive camera to use if 
> one takes a lot of pictures.
> Apparently, they don't wear out.
> This would probably be of little interest to a collector.



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob W]

Those black paint jobs look great don't they? I think Leica have used
Erwitt's camera on some of their adverts and posters. 

I've been trying to find the ebay webpage of Victor Englebert's M2
that I saved years ago, but it seems to have disappeared from my
machine. That was a great collectible too. 

--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Shel Belinkoff
> Sent: 28 August 2006 07:23
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Digital Leica M8?
> 
> Indeed ...
> 
> Some real "collectible" Leicas:
> 
> Elliott Erwitt's M3: 
> http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/1941882/channel/4
> 
> Gary Winogrand's last M4:
> http://www.cameraquest.com/LeicaM4G.htm
> 
> Jim Marshall's M4:
> http://photo.net/bboard/big-image?bboard_upload_id=20693984
> 
> My Leicas are 40+ years old.  The M3 has had one CLA, the M2 
> has had two,
> the second only because I had it modified and, as long as it 
> was in the
> shop, it seemed a good idea to go through it, especially 
> since it had been
> a l-o-n-g time since its previous CLA.  Interestingly, both 
> cameras tested
> within spec even before their most recent CLA experiences.
> 
> I also had a 1934 Leica - it was 70 years old and still 
> worked perfectly
> when someone made me an offer on it that I couldn't refuse ;-))
> 
> Shel
> 
> 
> 
> > [Original Message]
> > From: William Robb
> 
> > Something to consider in buying a Leica is the cost per 
> exposure before 
> > the camera wears out.
> > >From what I have heard, Leica is the least expensive 
> camera to use if 
> > one takes a lot of pictures.
> > Apparently, they don't wear out.
> > This would probably be of little interest to a collector.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 
> 
> 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[John Celio]

FYI, the official Leica press-release about this and more cool stuff will be 
released a couple days after Pentax's.  I can say no more. 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Cotty]

On 28/8/06, John Celio, discombobulated, unleashed:

>FYI, the official Leica press-release about this and more cool stuff will be 
>released a couple days after Pentax's.  I can say no more. 

Balls. Publish and be damned.

-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob W]

I managed to find one of the pictures of Englebert's M2:
http://photo.net/bboard-uploads//003TMU-8672484.jpg


--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Bob W
> Sent: 28 August 2006 08:55
> To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
> Subject: RE: Digital Leica M8?
> 
> Those black paint jobs look great don't they? I think Leica have
used
> Erwitt's camera on some of their adverts and posters. 
> 
> I've been trying to find the ebay webpage of Victor Englebert's M2
> that I saved years ago, but it seems to have disappeared from my
> machine. That was a great collectible too. 
> 
> --
> Cheers,
>  Bob 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > Behalf Of Shel Belinkoff
> > Sent: 28 August 2006 07:23
> > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > Subject: Re: Digital Leica M8?
> > 
> > Indeed ...
> > 
> > Some real "collectible" Leicas:
> > 
> > Elliott Erwitt's M3: 
> > http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/1941882/channel/4
> > 
> > Gary Winogrand's last M4:
> > http://www.cameraquest.com/LeicaM4G.htm
> > 
> > Jim Marshall's M4:
> > http://photo.net/bboard/big-image?bboard_upload_id=20693984
> > 
> > My Leicas are 40+ years old.  The M3 has had one CLA, the M2 
> > has had two,
> > the second only because I had it modified and, as long as it 
> > was in the
> > shop, it seemed a good idea to go through it, especially 
> > since it had been
> > a l-o-n-g time since its previous CLA.  Interestingly, both 
> > cameras tested
> > within spec even before their most recent CLA experiences.
> > 
> > I also had a 1934 Leica - it was 70 years old and still 
> > worked perfectly
> > when someone made me an offer on it that I couldn't refuse ;-))
> > 
> > Shel
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: William Robb
> > 
> > > Something to consider in buying a Leica is the cost per 
> > exposure before 
> > > the camera wears out.
> > > >From what I have heard, Leica is the least expensive 
> > camera to use if 
> > > one takes a lot of pictures.
> > > Apparently, they don't wear out.
> > > This would probably be of little interest to a collector.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 
> 
> 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

On Aug 28, 2006, at 12:22 AM, Brendan MacRae wrote:

> I love the Kern lens on the Leica...that's too cool. I
> want an Alpa just for the Kern lenses. They are so
> sharp they will cut you. Kern-Paillard also made
> lenses for the Bolex movie cameras. Beautiful,
> precision lenses of terrific quality, makes perfect
> sense to adapt one to an M6.

Oddly, though, Kern only made 50mm lenses for Alpa, so far as I know,  
while making a variety of focal lengths for Bolex.  Kern was not  
connected with Paillard, Bolex was.  The Kern factory was primarily a  
maker of very fine binoculars, including the innovative Focalpin  
series that were hermetically sealed.  The factory still exists, but  
was bought some years ago by Leica.  I have a nice pair of Leica  
binoculars made in the old Kern factory.

Bob

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

On Aug 28, 2006, at 12:08 AM, William Robb wrote:

> Something to consider in buying a Leica is the cost per exposure  
> before
> the camera wears out.
>> From whay I have heard, Leica is the least expensive camera to use if
> one takes a lot of pictures.
> Apparently, they don't wear out.
> This would probably be of little interest to a collector.

My only Leica at present is an M3 double-stroke with a matching  
vintage 50/2 Summicron lens.  I've had it about half it's life.  It  
turns 50 next year.  It still works perfectly and has had one CLA  
since I've had it.  Not being a purist, I have converted it to quick  
load, replaced the Leica flash fitting with a standard PC socket  
(using Leica factory parts) and added one of those rewind cranks to  
the knob.  I don't have a clue how many photos it has taken in its life.

Bob

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

On Aug 28, 2006, at 4:39 AM, John Celio wrote:

> FYI, the official Leica press-release about this and more cool  
> stuff will be
> released a couple days after Pentax's.  I can say no more.

http://tinyurl.com/g43e6

Bob

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: Digital Leica M8?

[Shel Belinkoff]

Note the filter on Erwitt's lens ...  Didn't Leica use Jim Marshall's
camera in some ads or promotional material as well?

There's something so very beautiful about a well-brassed black-bodied
camera.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Bob W 

> Those black paint jobs look great don't they? I think Leica have used
> Erwitt's camera on some of their adverts and posters. 
>
> I've been trying to find the ebay webpage of Victor Englebert's M2
> that I saved years ago, but it seems to have disappeared from my
> machine. That was a great collectible too. 
>
> --
> Cheers,
>  Bob 
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > Behalf Of Shel Belinkoff
> > Sent: 28 August 2006 07:23
> > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > Subject: Re: Digital Leica M8?
> > 
> > Indeed ...
> > 
> > Some real "collectible" Leicas:
> > 
> > Elliott Erwitt's M3: 
> > http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/1941882/channel/4
> > 
> > Gary Winogrand's last M4:
> > http://www.cameraquest.com/LeicaM4G.htm
> > 
> > Jim Marshall's M4:
> > http://photo.net/bboard/big-image?bboard_upload_id=20693984
> > 
> > My Leicas are 40+ years old.  The M3 has had one CLA, the M2 
> > has had two,
> > the second only because I had it modified and, as long as it 
> > was in the
> > shop, it seemed a good idea to go through it, especially 
> > since it had been
> > a l-o-n-g time since its previous CLA.  Interestingly, both 
> > cameras tested
> > within spec even before their most recent CLA experiences.
> > 
> > I also had a 1934 Leica - it was 70 years old and still 
> > worked perfectly
> > when someone made me an offer on it that I couldn't refuse ;-))
> > 
> > Shel
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: William Robb
> > 
> > > Something to consider in buying a Leica is the cost per 
> > exposure before 
> > > the camera wears out.
> > > >From what I have heard, Leica is the least expensive 
> > camera to use if 
> > > one takes a lot of pictures.
> > > Apparently, they don't wear out.
> > > This would probably be of little interest to a collector.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > 
> > 
> > 
>
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: Digital Leica M8?

[Kostas Kavoussanakis]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, Shel Belinkoff wrote:

> Note the filter on Erwitt's lens ...

What is it?

> There's something so very beautiful about a well-brassed black-bodied
> camera.

I just haven't figured it out yet.

Kostas the Sacrilegious

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Adam Maas]

Douglas Newman wrote:
> --- "Digital Image Studio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> << a user can buy a bog stock body, granted they are
> expensive but not unreasonably so. >>
> 
>>From B&H:
> 
> Leica M7: $3,495
> Voigtlander Bessa R3A: $549.95
> 
> Is the M7 really worth more than more than SIX times
> the price of the R3A?
> 
> I find this extremely hard to believe.
> 
> There is no doubt that Leica can produce some
> magnificent glass and even excellent cameras.
> Unfortunately, I find their prices to be absolutely
> outrageous...
> 
> New Doug
> 

Yeah, there is a very distinct difference between the R3a and the M7, 
mostly in build. Now a Zeiss Ikon (at around $1500USD) on the other hand...

-Adam


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Adam Maas]

Digital Image Studio wrote:
> On 28/08/06, Douglas Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>>--- "Digital Image Studio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>><< a user can buy a bog stock body, granted they are
>>expensive but not unreasonably so. >>
>>
>>>From B&H:
>>
>>Leica M7: $3,495
>>Voigtlander Bessa R3A: $549.95
>>
>>Is the M7 really worth more than more than SIX times
>>the price of the R3A?
>>
>>I find this extremely hard to believe.
>>
>>There is no doubt that Leica can produce some
>>magnificent glass and even excellent cameras.
>>Unfortunately, I find their prices to be absolutely
>>outrageous...
> 
> 
> If you've owned both you'd know that they aren't the same league of
> camera in build or use, same goes for Leica vs new Voigtländer glass.
> If you don't have the money then there is no question which poses
> better value.
> 

 From what I've seen and handled, the only difference between the latest 
Voightlander and Leica glass is that the Voightlander produces better 
images for less money. I'm not fond of the rendering characteristics of 
Leica's new ASPH lenses. Definite bias towards raw test numbers rather 
than the pleasing rendering of their older designs. I'd distinctly 
prefer older pre-ASPH Leica, or the new ZM and Voihgtlander glass.

-Adam


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Douglas Newman]

--- Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<< there is a very distinct difference between the R3a
and the M7, mostly in build. Now a Zeiss Ikon (at
around $1500USD) on the other hand... >>

Isn't the Zeiss Ikon basically the same camera as the
Bessa, but marketed as a Zeiss by Hasselblad?

New Doug

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Adam Maas]

Shel Belinkoff wrote:
> 
> Leica still builds - and always has built - their basic camera, the current
> versions being the M7 and MP variants, as well as a replica Barnack
> edition.  The Barnack edition is the least expensive of the three.
> 
> Yes, you can buy a dressed up Leica, and there's not a damned thing wrong
> with that.  Some people like fancier-looking cameras.  Why, right on this
> list there are some people using "designer" Pentax cameras, and Pentax has
> also made some limited edition models, such as the gold LX and one or two
> anniversary edition LX bodies.  I believe there were also some special
> bodies made for the K1000, with different focusing screens and brown
> leather coverings, which also sold for a premium.
> 
> And let's not forget some of the better-known collectible Nikons - The Gold
> Nikon FA  European Gran Prix 1984 Camera of the Year, the Gold Nikon FM
> 60th Anniversary of Nippon Kogaku,  and the Nikon FM2 Titanium Year of the
> Dog  with a total Production only 300 - more than many of the Leica
> collectibles.
> 
> Further, many of  the real collector edition Leicas are mostly contracted
> for by various organizations and, in some cases, individuals, who want to
> commemorate an event or try to generate some extra income for themselves or
> their organization.  Leica doesn't just build them without special orders. 
> For example, there's a doctor in Hong Kong who, over the years,
> commissioned Leica to make some special colors (olive drab comes to mind as
> one of them) that he resold for a premium to collectors, or just those
> users who wanted special colors.
> 
> Many Leica owners over the years have modified or customized their cameras
> to reflect their unique needs or preferences.  BFD ...  This page may
> interest you:
> 
> http://www.cameraquest.com/TAnotcoll.htm
> 
> And to perhaps anticipate a further objection, that Leicas are over priced
> or very expensive, and suited only for the rich user or collector, bear in
> mind that Leica has always been expensive.  Why people insist on bashing
> Leica as primarily a manufacturer of high-priced collectible cameras seems
> a little strange, but the nice thing is that these collectibles put money
> in Leica's coffers and allow the company to stay in business.
> 
> The Bessa is a piece of mass-produced crap based on a cheap body that
> Cosina has been using for a variety of cameras and brands for years.  As I
> said before, Leica has always been expensive.  Pick up and use a Bessa and
> spend some time with it, and do the same for your basic Leica.  The quality
> difference will be obvious.
> What makes some Canon and Nikons worth five and six times more than their
> entry level cameras?   I find the price difference extremely hard to
> believe.
> 
> 
> Shel (Leica M3 and custom modified M2 user)
> 
> 
> 
> 

Shel.

Have you ever used an R2 or R3 series Bessa? It might be an evolution of 
the plastic-fantastic Cosina SLR's, but it's a far sturdier example of 
camera design, with build quality similar to mid-range Nikon's and 
Pentax's of the late 70's and early 80's. And the viewfinder is 
extremely good (better than the M3 IMHO). Their only weakness is the 
lack of a Red Dot and a somewhat short RF baseline. If Leica had been 
bright they would have gone to Cosina and had them turn the R into a CL2 
instead of letting Cosina steal the market for RF cameras.

I've shot a Leica. I shoot Nikons. No way in hell are the current bodies 
worth what Leica wants new. Half that, maybe. Now used M3 and M2's are 
great cameras for a reasonable cost.

-Adam


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Adam Maas]

Douglas Newman wrote:
> 
> --- Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> << there is a very distinct difference between the R3a
> and the M7, mostly in build. Now a Zeiss Ikon (at
> around $1500USD) on the other hand... >>
> 
> Isn't the Zeiss Ikon basically the same camera as the
> Bessa, but marketed as a Zeiss by Hasselblad?
> 
> New Doug
> 

Nope, it's related, but fairly different in design, with a new frame, 
body shell and rewind setup. It's also better built than the Bessa R2/R3.

-Adam


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Shel Belinkoff]

Yes  and a friend has the R3.  QC stinks.  I agree the cameras are
spendy, but then, a loaf of good bread in my area costs almost $4.00 and a
quart of milk is more than $1.25 - almost $2.00 for some brands, and the
local supermarket is selling ground turkey for $5.00/lb.


Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Adam Maas 

> Have you ever used an R2 or R3 series Bessa? 

> I've shot a Leica. I shoot Nikons. No way in hell are the current bodies 
> worth what Leica wants new. Half that, maybe. Now used M3 and M2's are 
> great cameras for a reasonable cost.



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Adam Maas]

Interesting. Bread around here is about $2/loaf, of course I just get 
plain Whole Wheat. Milk is $2/L and I've no clue what ground turkey 
costs, I just get Ground Beef for that sort of thing (At about $4/lb)

Prices in Canuck Peso's of course.

Frankly, when the Leica costs more than an F6, there's a problem. An F6 
is just as reliable (Far more accurate and reliable in the case of the 
shutter) far more capable and cheaper. Admittedly louder and bulkier 
though. I'd consider $2000-$2500 to be a quite legitimate price for an 
M7 or MP, but at $1000+ more, they don't justify the cost. Especially 
when I can get an M3 for $600-800 and the only useful thing it doesn't 
have is a built-in metering (Leica's TTL flash is a joke, by late 1970's 
standards).

-Adam


Shel Belinkoff wrote:
> Yes  and a friend has the R3.  QC stinks.  I agree the cameras are
> spendy, but then, a loaf of good bread in my area costs almost $4.00 and a
> quart of milk is more than $1.25 - almost $2.00 for some brands, and the
> local supermarket is selling ground turkey for $5.00/lb.
> 
> 
> Shel
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>[Original Message]
>>From: Adam Maas 
> 
> 
>>Have you ever used an R2 or R3 series Bessa? 
> 
> 
>>I've shot a Leica. I shoot Nikons. No way in hell are the current bodies 
>>worth what Leica wants new. Half that, maybe. Now used M3 and M2's are 
>>great cameras for a reasonable cost.
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

RE: Digital Leica M8?

[Shel Belinkoff]

Kostas the Sacrilegious wrote:

> Note the filter on Erwitt's lens ...

> What is it?

> There's something so very beautiful about a 
> well-brassed black-bodied camera.

> I just haven't figured it out yet.

My comment was made just to point out that a photographer as well-regarded
as Erwitt uses a filter.  So many people with somewhat lesser portfolios
religiously condemn  the use of filters and claim that they "degrade" the
image.  I guess Erwitt has figured a way to use a filter and become one of
the most prolific and highly regarded photographers in the world. Also, the
filter ring doesn't match the black of the camera body ... another mistake
by Erwitt.

As for you not seeing the beauty in a highly brassed black-bodied camera,
well, maybe one day you will.  The beauty is, imo, more than just physical.





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[graywolf]

There are all kinds of companies now making mechanical watches again.
There are probably 50 brands of automatic wristwatches available today,
$50 and up. Seems like a lot of people have gotten tired of changing
batteries all the time.

-- 
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


Paul Stenquist wrote:
> Other than Rolex. Still the perpetual movement, no electronics.
> Paul
> On Aug 27, 2006, at 10:02 PM, George Sinos wrote:
> 
>> Reminds me of what happened to watches in the 1970's.
>>
>> See you later, gs
>> 
>>
>> On 8/27/06, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Douglas Newman wrote:
>>>
>>> My thoughts exactly. They've replaced the ultra-precise,
>>> very-limited-production, mechanical internals of a Leica with
>>> electronics that are essentially a mass-production product.
>>> --
>>> Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia
>>> www.robertstech.com
>>> 412-687-2835
>>>
>>> --
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>>
>> -- 
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 
> 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[graywolf]

I have an Alpha automatic watch, it looks like, and works like a Rolex 
Explorer II. Now I have compared them side by side at a jewelers. I 
would guess the Rolex costs about twice as much to make as the Alpha. 
The Rolex lists for over $5000. The Alpha cost me $45. Note that the 
Rolex is 100 times as expensive as the Alpha. People will pay a premium 
for the name.

-- 
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


Douglas Newman wrote:
> --- "Digital Image Studio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> << a user can buy a bog stock body, granted they are
> expensive but not unreasonably so. >>
> 
>>From B&H:
> 
> Leica M7: $3,495
> Voigtlander Bessa R3A: $549.95
> 
> Is the M7 really worth more than more than SIX times
> the price of the R3A?
> 
> I find this extremely hard to believe.
> 
> There is no doubt that Leica can produce some
> magnificent glass and even excellent cameras.
> Unfortunately, I find their prices to be absolutely
> outrageous...
> 
> New Doug
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[graywolf]

Oh, Leicas wear out all right. The fit and finish is superb however, and 
that does cost a bit extra.

-- 
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


William Robb wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>> Is the M7 really worth more than more than SIX times
>>> the price of the R3A?
>>> I find this extremely hard to believe.
>>
>> Leica still builds - and always has built - their basic camera, the 
>> current
>> versions being the M7 and MP variants, as well as a replica Barnack
>> edition.  The Barnack edition is the least expensive of the three.
> 
> Something to consider in buying a Leica is the cost per exposure before 
> the camera wears out.
>>From whay I have heard, Leica is the least expensive camera to use if 
> one takes a lot of pictures.
> Apparently, they don't wear out.
> This would probably be of little interest to a collector.
> 
> William Robb 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Dario Bonazza]

Don't worry, the Leica M8 needs no battery. All it needs is an (optional) 
Leicavit-type of power supply, so that you have to keep triggering all the 
time while shooting/playing pictures. As an excellent alternative, you can 
buy a special M8 bike-type dynamo, called the Knarf. Great for shooting 
while cycling.

Leica is setting the new standard for timeless mechanical digicams! ;-)

Dario

- Original Message - 
From: "graywolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Digital Leica M8?


> There are all kinds of companies now making mechanical watches again.
> There are probably 50 brands of automatic wristwatches available today,
> $50 and up. Seems like a lot of people have gotten tired of changing
> batteries all the time.
>
> -- 
> graywolf
> http://www.graywolfphoto.com
> http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
> "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
> ---
>
>
> Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> Other than Rolex. Still the perpetual movement, no electronics.
>> Paul
>> On Aug 27, 2006, at 10:02 PM, George Sinos wrote:
>>
>>> Reminds me of what happened to watches in the 1970's.
>>>
>>> See you later, gs
>>> <http://georgesphotos.net>
>>>
>>> On 8/27/06, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> Douglas Newman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My thoughts exactly. They've replaced the ultra-precise,
>>>> very-limited-production, mechanical internals of a Leica with
>>>> electronics that are essentially a mass-production product.
>>>> --
>>>> Mark Roberts Photography & Multimedia
>>>> www.robertstech.com
>>>> 412-687-2835
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>>>
>>> -- 
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

On Aug 28, 2006, at 1:36 PM, Dario Bonazza wrote:

> Don't worry, the Leica M8 needs no battery. All it needs is an  
> (optional)
> Leicavit-type of power supply, so that you have to keep triggering  
> all the
> time while shooting/playing pictures. As an excellent alternative,  
> you can
> buy a special M8 bike-type dynamo, called the Knarf. Great for  
> shooting
> while cycling.

Oh, I thought a steam driven coal fired motor drive was in the works.

Bob

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

On Aug 28, 2006, at 1:33 PM, graywolf wrote:

> I have an Alpha automatic watch, it looks like, and works like a Rolex
> Explorer II. Now I have compared them side by side at a jewelers. I
> would guess the Rolex costs about twice as much to make as the Alpha.
> The Rolex lists for over $5000. The Alpha cost me $45. Note that the
> Rolex is 100 times as expensive as the Alpha. People will pay a  
> premium
> for the name.

I have a Rolex President day/date watch.  I paid $ 35 for it about  
ten years ago at the Chinese market in Kuala Lumpur.  It works  
perfectly and keeps good time, but if it ever breaks the little  
Chinese man I bought it from said it has a lifetime warranty, just  
bring it back to him!

I'm guessing that these replicas are made somewhere in China.

Bob

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Shel Belinkoff]

Never known of one to "wear out" to the point it could not be repaired,
although the M3 in some instances can't have a damaged rangefinder
repaired.  Usually they just need an adjustment rather than a full-on
repair, although shutter curtains sometimes need to be replaced.  There's
something to be said about a simple design, quality construction and
materials, and skilled, careful technicians who assemble the cameras.  I've
known some to break because of a fall or some other damage, but just plain
wearing out - nope.

Also, the design of the post-M3 cameras is such that parts are
interchangeable between older and newer models.  When I wanted to change
the rangefinder/viewfinder mechanism in my M2, I had a choice between the
M4 and several M6 rangefinders, all of which were 100% compatible with
every Leica lens ever made.

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: graywolf 

> Oh, Leicas wear out all right. The fit and finish is superb however, 
> and that does cost a bit extra.



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Brendan MacRae]

--- Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> Kern was not  
> connected with Paillard, Bolex was.  The Kern
> factory was primarily a  
> maker of very fine binoculars, including the
> innovative Focalpin  
> series that were hermetically sealed.  The factory
> still exists, but  
> was bought some years ago by Leica.  I have a nice
> pair of Leica  
> binoculars made in the old Kern factory.
> 
> Bob

Oh, well, all of the old Bolex lenses are marked
Kern-Paillard Switzerland so my assumption is that it
was one compay. 

Interesting, I've never seen those binos. Those must
be very nice. I have an old pair of Asahi Optical Co. 
binoculars that have a case stamped Made in Occupied
Japan. They are amazing strong for their tiny size. I
keep them in my Pelican case to spot birds.

-Brendan


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Douglas Newman]

--- "Shel Belinkoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Yes  and a friend has the R3.  QC stinks.

I'm sorry to hear that.

I thought it looked like a nice camera, considering
its low price.

--- Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frankly, when the Leica costs more than an F6,
> there's a problem. 

I agree completely.

I can see an M7 costing perhaps $2000. But $3500 is, I
am afraid, just far too much...

Doug

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Digital Image Studio]

On 29/08/06, Douglas Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I can see an M7 costing perhaps $2000. But $3500 is, I
> am afraid, just far too much...

They are made in the heart of Europe, not the Philippines

-- 
Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Paul Stenquist]

Although they're made by middle eastern immigrant workers, many of  
them illegals. Same as Mercedes, BMW and Porsche. But the costs of  
doing business in Europe are still very high, even with a non- 
European workforce.
Paul
On Aug 28, 2006, at 9:12 PM, Digital Image Studio wrote:

> On 29/08/06, Douglas Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I can see an M7 costing perhaps $2000. But $3500 is, I
>> am afraid, just far too much...
>
> They are made in the heart of Europe, not the Philippines
>
> -- 
> Rob Studdert
> HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
> Tel +61-2-9554-4110
> UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/
> Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Shel Belinkoff"
Subject: RE: Digital Leica M8?



>
> My comment was made just to point out that a photographer as
> well-regarded
> as Erwitt uses a filter.  So many people with somewhat lesser
> portfolios
> religiously condemn  the use of filters and claim that they "degrade"
> the
> image.  I guess Erwitt has figured a way to use a filter and become
> one of
> the most prolific and highly regarded photographers in the world.
> Also, the
> filter ring doesn't match the black of the camera body ... another
> mistake
> by Erwitt.

You've complained in the past that you have seen filter induced image
degradation. I believe it was a 300mm lens that was suspect until you
removed the filter.
My 600 is definitely a better lens without the 112mm filter on the
front.
Erwitt's pictures are well regarded by some because they figure he is a
good photographer.

William Robb



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Stenquist" 
Subject: Re: Digital Leica M8?


> Although they're made by middle eastern immigrant workers, many of  
> them illegals. Same as Mercedes, BMW and Porsche.

Can you point me to some evidence of this?

William Robb


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Douglas Newman]

--- "Digital Image Studio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> They are made in the heart of Europe, not the
> Philippines

And the Voigtlanders are made in the heart of Japan...
Same difference.

New Doug

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[John Francis]

On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:21:26PM -0600, William Robb wrote:
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Shel Belinkoff"
> Subject: RE: Digital Leica M8?
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > My comment was made just to point out that a photographer as
> > well-regarded
> > as Erwitt uses a filter.  So many people with somewhat lesser
> > portfolios
> > religiously condemn  the use of filters and claim that they "degrade"
> > the
> > image.  I guess Erwitt has figured a way to use a filter and become
> > one of
> > the most prolific and highly regarded photographers in the world.
> > Also, the
> > filter ring doesn't match the black of the camera body ... another
> > mistake
> > by Erwitt.
> 
> You've complained in the past that you have seen filter induced image
> degradation. I believe it was a 300mm lens that was suspect until you
> removed the filter.
> My 600 is definitely a better lens without the 112mm filter on the
> front.
> Erwitt's pictures are well regarded by some because they figure he is a
> good photographer.
> 
> William Robb

Quite.

And, in any case, just because Erwitt is good enough to get away with
breaking the rules (or, at least, ignoring the conventional wisdom)
doesn't mean it's a good idea for other lesser photographers to do so.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Kenneth Waller]

> My 600 is definitely a better lens without the 112mm filter on the
> front.

Is it really a filter?

I'm under the impression that big hunk of glass in the front on my FA 600 
isn't really a filter.

Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - 
From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Digital Leica M8?


>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Shel Belinkoff"
> Subject: RE: Digital Leica M8?
>
>
>
>>
>> My comment was made just to point out that a photographer as
>> well-regarded
>> as Erwitt uses a filter.  So many people with somewhat lesser
>> portfolios
>> religiously condemn  the use of filters and claim that they "degrade"
>> the
>> image.  I guess Erwitt has figured a way to use a filter and become
>> one of
>> the most prolific and highly regarded photographers in the world.
>> Also, the
>> filter ring doesn't match the black of the camera body ... another
>> mistake
>> by Erwitt.
>
> You've complained in the past that you have seen filter induced image
> degradation. I believe it was a 300mm lens that was suspect until you
> removed the filter.
> My 600 is definitely a better lens without the 112mm filter on the
> front.
> Erwitt's pictures are well regarded by some because they figure he is a
> good photographer.
>
> William Robb
>
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Kenneth Waller" 
Subject: Re: Digital Leica M8?


>> My 600 is definitely a better lens without the 112mm filter on the
>> front.
> 
> Is it really a filter?

Pretty sure. It says Tamron 112mm Normal MC on the ring.

William Robb


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Kostas Kavoussanakis]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006, Paul Stenquist wrote:

> Although they're made by middle eastern immigrant workers, many of
> them illegals. Same as Mercedes, BMW and Porsche.

Reference, please?

Kostas

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Shel Belinkoff]

Well, I am a lesser photographer ...

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: John Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Date: 8/28/2006 9:19:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Digital Leica M8?
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 09:21:26PM -0600, William Robb wrote:
> > 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Shel Belinkoff"
> > Subject: RE: Digital Leica M8?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > My comment was made just to point out that a photographer as
> > > well-regarded
> > > as Erwitt uses a filter.  So many people with somewhat lesser
> > > portfolios
> > > religiously condemn  the use of filters and claim that they "degrade"
> > > the
> > > image.  I guess Erwitt has figured a way to use a filter and become
> > > one of
> > > the most prolific and highly regarded photographers in the world.
> > > Also, the
> > > filter ring doesn't match the black of the camera body ... another
> > > mistake
> > > by Erwitt.
> > 
> > You've complained in the past that you have seen filter induced image
> > degradation. I believe it was a 300mm lens that was suspect until you
> > removed the filter.
> > My 600 is definitely a better lens without the 112mm filter on the
> > front.
> > Erwitt's pictures are well regarded by some because they figure he is a
> > good photographer.
> > 
> > William Robb
>
> Quite.
>
> And, in any case, just because Erwitt is good enough to get away with
> breaking the rules (or, at least, ignoring the conventional wisdom)
> doesn't mean it's a good idea for other lesser photographers to do so.
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Digital Image Studio]

On 29/08/06, Douglas Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> And the Voigtlanders are made in the heart of Japan...
> Same difference.

That they are, and they are relatively expensive and they do suffer QA
problems (from my experience)

-- 
Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Carlos Royo]

Paul Stenquist wrote:
> Although they're made by middle eastern immigrant workers, many of  
> them illegals. Same as Mercedes, BMW and Porsche. But the costs of  
> doing business in Europe are still very high, even with a non- 
> European workforce.

Paul, I think that none of the big companies you quote would employ 
illegal immigrant workers. Those big firms are controlled very tightly 
both by the government and the unions.

Carlos

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Paul Stenquist]

I spent quite a bit of time in Stuttgart when I worked on Mercedes 
advertising. Management complained that they couldn't get Germans to 
take factory jobs. Most were held by Turks. The vast majority were 
legal immigrants, But reportedly quite a few get by with phony 
documentation.
Paul
On Aug 29, 2006, at 4:59 AM, Carlos Royo wrote:

> Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> Although they're made by middle eastern immigrant workers, many of
>> them illegals. Same as Mercedes, BMW and Porsche. But the costs of
>> doing business in Europe are still very high, even with a non-
>> European workforce.
>
> Paul, I think that none of the big companies you quote would employ
> illegal immigrant workers. Those big firms are controlled very tightly
> both by the government and the unions.
>
> Carlos
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[John Forbes]

In Britain it has been a criminal offence for at least ten years to employ  
somebody who does not have a right to work in the country.

You won't find a car company employing such people.

Germany had a special deal with Turkey, so it was very easy for Turks to  
work in Germany legally.  I doubt that there were many illegal Turks, if  
any.  Albanians, maybe, but I imagine that Germany tightened up its rules  
some time ago, like Britain.

John


On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:07:26 +0100, Paul Stenquist  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I spent quite a bit of time in Stuttgart when I worked on Mercedes
> advertising. Management complained that they couldn't get Germans to
> take factory jobs. Most were held by Turks. The vast majority were
> legal immigrants, But reportedly quite a few get by with phony
> documentation.
> Paul
> On Aug 29, 2006, at 4:59 AM, Carlos Royo wrote:
>
>> Paul Stenquist wrote:
>>> Although they're made by middle eastern immigrant workers, many of
>>> them illegals. Same as Mercedes, BMW and Porsche. But the costs of
>>> doing business in Europe are still very high, even with a non-
>>> European workforce.
>>
>> Paul, I think that none of the big companies you quote would employ
>> illegal immigrant workers. Those big firms are controlled very tightly
>> both by the government and the unions.
>>
>> Carlos
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>
>
>



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

On Aug 28, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

> Although they're made by middle eastern immigrant workers, many of
> them illegals. Same as Mercedes, BMW and Porsche. But the costs of
> doing business in Europe are still very high, even with a non-
> European workforce.

Leica cameras are made in two factories, one in Portugal that builds  
the basic bodies, installs the shutters, etc., and one in Germany  
that does the finishing work so they can be marked "Made in  
Germany".  The M6 and M7 have come to Germany from Portugal in nearly  
finished form, and the Germans mostly add the top cover and adjust  
everything.  The workers in the German factory are 100% native  
Germans.  The workers in Portugal are mostly Portuguese with a few  
Germans.  No middle eastern immigrants in either factory.

Bob

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Bob Shell]

On Aug 28, 2006, at 11:21 PM, William Robb wrote:

> Erwitt's pictures are well regarded by some because they figure he  
> is a
> good photographer.

Erwitt is a humorist who uses photography as his medium.

Bob

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[graywolf]

BMW's are made in South Carolina by freed robots .

-- 
graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---


William Robb wrote:
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Paul Stenquist" 
> Subject: Re: Digital Leica M8?
> 
> 
>> Although they're made by middle eastern immigrant workers, many of  
>> them illegals. Same as Mercedes, BMW and Porsche.
> 
> Can you point me to some evidence of this?
> 
> William Robb
> 
> 

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Kenneth Waller]

Checking with the B+H site under Pentax listing found a number of large - 
145mm etc - "protective front SMC glass filters" - clear colorless permanent 
lens protector, multi coated to minimize reflection @ filter surface - 
reduces flare & ghosting.

Don't break it - it lists for $519 !


Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - 
From: "William Robb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: Digital Leica M8?


>
> - Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kenneth Waller"
> Subject: Re: Digital Leica M8?
>
>
>>> My 600 is definitely a better lens without the 112mm filter on the
>>> front.
>>
>> Is it really a filter?
>
> Pretty sure. It says Tamron 112mm Normal MC on the ring.
>
> William Robb
>
>
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net 


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Juan Buhler]

The viewfinder alone is the reason I've been shooting more film lately.

But at $5000, it will be hard for me to justify. I'll most probably
just get a K10D for now.

Maybe Epson/Cosina will put out something similar and cheaper...

j

On 8/26/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  From reading the Leica forums, it seems to be real. But is it good?
> Maybe, maybe not.
> Paul
> On Aug 26, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Bob Shell wrote:
>
> > Is it real or is it Photoshop?
> >
> >
> > www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?
> > attachmentid=31924&d=1156557449
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>


-- 
Juan Buhler
Check out my book: http://www.jbuhler.com/book.html
Water Molotov: http://photoblog.jbuhler.com
Slippery Slope: http://color.jbuhler.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net

Re: Re: Digital Leica M8?

[Juan Buhler]

I know about the RD-1, of course. $3000 is still too much for a 6 MP camera...

j

On 8/26/06, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Juan Buhler wrote:
> > The viewfinder alone is the reason I've been shooting more film lately.
> >
> > But at $5000, it will be hard for me to justify. I'll most probably
> > just get a K10D for now.
> >
> > Maybe Epson/Cosina will put out something similar and cheaper...
> >
> > j
> >
>
> They did. The RD-1/RD-1s. Only $3000.
>
> -Adam
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>


-- 
Juan Buhler
Check out my book: http://www.jbuhler.com/book.html
Water Molotov: http://photoblog.jbuhler.com
Slippery Slope: http://color.jbuhler.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net