Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
It's been said that Ricoh priced this 1980s flagship to sell at a loss just to earn the company a reputation as a maker of a great high-end body. Unfortunately, they married this so-called flagship model with substandard materials. Otherwise, I would still be using mine. regards, Alan Chan _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Mike, was that 45mm Nikkor P the GN Auto? Len --- From: Mike Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax... Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:31:34 -0600 If I am not mistaken, Popular photography proclaimed the 45mm and the Pentax 43mm to be two of the three best prime lenses ever or something like that. (So I don't get thrown off this list, I like my FA 50mm f/1.4 better). Actually, the three best ever were supposedly the 45mm Nikkor P, the Pentax 31mm Limited, and the Cosina/Voigtlander 50/3.5. But thanks for your comments about the 45mm. I'm always interested in reading firsthand comments like that. --Mike _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Len, I'm not Mike (well actually I am Mike but not THAT Mike) The new 45mm Nikkor P is the lens that Popular Photography chose as one of its best prime lenses ever. It has the electronics to provide matrix metering, distance information for flash etc on electronic bodies, but is in all other ways a manual focus lens. Michael Leonard Paris wrote: Mike, was that 45mm Nikkor P the GN Auto? Len ---
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
OK, thanks. I'm not up on the current Nikkor MF lenses. I know Nikon has reproduced the 45mm with the same (or very close) formula as the GN Auto. Just wonder how the GN Auto fares in comparison with the new 45mm, then. Didn't Nikon make this new lens with the FM3a in mind? Len --- Len, I'm not Mike (well actually I am Mike but not THAT Mike) The new 45mm Nikkor P is the lens that Popular Photography chose as one of its best prime lenses ever. It has the electronics to provide matrix metering, distance information for flash etc on electronic bodies, but is in all other ways a manual focus lens. Michael Leonard Paris wrote: Mike, was that 45mm Nikkor P the GN Auto? Len --- _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Now OT: Nikkor 45mm lenses (was Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real,old-style Pentax . . .)
The 45mm and the FM3A were released at the same time and both are available in either matching silver or black. Here are a couple of links if you are interested. http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_norm.html http://www.digital-images.net/Lenses/body_lenses.html#45P All this talk of the Nikkor 45mm has made me start to lust after the Pentax 43mm Limited :-) . Michael Leonard Paris wrote: OK, thanks. I'm not up on the current Nikkor MF lenses. I know Nikon has reproduced the 45mm with the same (or very close) formula as the GN Auto. Just wonder how the GN Auto fares in comparison with the new 45mm, then. Didn't Nikon make this new lens with the FM3a in mind? Len --- Len, I'm not Mike (well actually I am Mike but not THAT Mike) The new 45mm Nikkor P is the lens that Popular Photography chose as one of its best prime lenses ever. It has the electronics to provide matrix metering, distance information for flash etc on electronic bodies, but is in all other ways a manual focus lens. Michael Leonard Paris wrote: Mike, was that 45mm Nikkor P the GN Auto? Len --- _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Re: Now OT: Nikkor 45mm lenses (was Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax . . .)
Michael, I you have to lust, that is a good one to lust for :) Bruce Friday, February 14, 2003, 10:26:30 AM, you wrote: MC All this talk of the Nikkor 45mm has made me start to lust after MC the Pentax 43mm Limited :-) . MC Michael
Re: Now OT: Nikkor 45mm lenses (was Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax . . .)
mm.77 Homer (doug) At 01:55 PM 2/14/03, you wrote: Bruce, First I gotta get the 85 or 77. Then maybe the 43mm? Michael
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd even buy a plain vanilla MX if they still made one. Anyone want to speculate what it would sell for if Pentax built one now? (Less than an FM3a, I'm sure... Maybe Pentax should outsource its manufacturing to Cosina. Unfortunately, fine as the new Cosina-Voigtlander lenses are, Cosina's bodies (RF and SLR) are, at best, second-rate. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Hi! MCG Yes, but: MCG 1. Mike seems to don't mind MCG 2. ME Super can still do 1/125 and B exposures without the batteries. MCG And at auto without batteries is mechanical 1/1000 (or 1/2000 ?), no ? According to my electronic copy of the manual the only mechanical settings are 1/125 sec and B. By the way, it would mean that ME Super is super bg for astro-photography. --- Boris Liberman www.geocities.com/dunno57 www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=38625
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Hi, From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd buy an LX. Christian Skofteland wrote: After all your grumblings about it's reliability? ;-) Yep, my thought exactly. I have a newest-style LX which has been to Pentax twice, and it still ain't 100% healthy. Pentax tells me that uneven exposure within one frame is due to my lenses... Seriously, I wish I had had the money and contacts to buy an LX2000 or one of the last LX's sold in Japan. To me (reliability aside, because, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues with mine) the LX is what a camera should be. Theoretically, the LX is what a camera should be. But practically, it is a high-maintenance-never-know-if-it-will-work-OK camera. I have asked Pentax Germany to find me an LX2000, and they can't. All are gone. Boz
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Yep, my thought exactly. I have a newest-style LX which has been to Pentax twice, and it still ain't 100% healthy. Pentax tells me that uneven exposure within one frame is due to my lenses... Nice explanation... ;-) Theoretically, the LX is what a camera should be. But practically, it is a high-maintenance-never-know-if-it-will-work-OK camera. Exactly... regards, Alan Chan _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
At 08:20 13.2.2003 +0100, Boz wrote: Yep, my thought exactly. I have a newest-style LX which has been to Pentax twice, and it still ain't 100% healthy. Pentax tells me that uneven exposure within one frame is due to my lenses... Uneven exposure *within one frame* ? What kind of ? The only thing in the body which could cause this kind of behaviour is a faulty shutter. And the shutter can make this kind of problems only when exposure times are shorter than the flash sync (when the exposure of the frame is made with a narrow moving slit between the first and second curtains). If you get uneven exposure within one frame with long exposure times, the shutter is fully open most of that time so the problem cannot be in the shutter (and neither in the other parts of the body). Have they replaced the shutter ? I have had the old style LX for about 10 years now with no more maintenance problems than one could expect from any mechanical professional camera. Not even the sticky mirror, but I had it CLA'd a couple of years ago because of a minor frame spacing problem. The LX is the best camera I have ever taken photographs with. Antti-Pekka --- * Antti-Pekka Virjonen * Fiskarsinkatu 7 D * GSM: +358 500 789 753 * * Computec Oy Turku* FIN-20750 Turku Finland * Fax: +358 10 264 0777 *
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Hi! MJ Christian, MJ Now you're talking. An MXa, like the MX but with aperture-priority AE added. MJ And keep it hanging around in the catalog for us dinosaurs. MJ I'd buy two, and be very grateful. Well, I am a newbie of this list. Also I am quite new into Pentax realm. So, perhaps I am going to say an unsophisticated thing. But, isn't ME Super is what might pull Mike out of trouble? It is not absolutely mechanical, but it comes close. I think it is rather difficult to make aperture priority AE happen without some electricity involved... Anyway, my proposal to Mike would be either MX or ME Super. For $500 Mike could have 4 or 5 ME Supers so that he could pick his favorite two and use the rest for parts whenever necessary. --- Boris Liberman www.geocities.com/dunno57 www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=38625
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
I have two Pentax MX. I suspect they will last me the rest of my life, and anyone can fix them. Much more durable than an ESII. But the camera I depend on most is an LX. If you look for late model versions, there are still a lot of very low mileage copies out there. Again, more durable than an ESII. Some here whine about LX durability, but mine has been faultless through several thousand rolls. I expect to own it until I take my last breath. Paul Stenquist Mike Johnston wrote: If one day...I cannot buy a new camera body that supports my investment, then I will feel betrayed. Boz I hate to say this, but that day is pretty much here for me. Has been for a while now. Here's my big dilemma. I like buying bodies new, simply because I like to know there are no hidden problems, and I like to be able to replace a body immediately and with no hassle in case of loss. Plus, I like to know I have the latest in the basic technology--screens and light meters and such. Finally, I like to be able to find accessories. But the kind of camera I prefer is on life support. I've said it before--I like metal, manual, mechanical cameras. Classic-era SLRs. But the only company that's released one in recent years is Nikon. Much as I love my ES II, it's an antique. If it broke, or I dropped it, or it was stolen, it would take a lot of work to find a replacement. It has some peculiarities; it's outdated in some ways. It's o-l-d. I feel it every time I take it out of the house: it's not just a tool, it's a treasure. I keep coming back to the same conclusion: that I should just get an FM3a. If Pentax still made _one_ old-style metal-manual-mechanical SLR...one classic Pentax...but it doesn't. It's not like the FM3a is any great paragon. It's no modern F2 or Spotmatic or anything. It's kind of a cheap-ass, crappy example of the genre, actually. But it's the genre I prefer. And it's what's out there. Tough problem. So tell me what you'd do. Comments, jokes, opinions, sympathy, ridicule, from anybody, all welcome. --Mike
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Geez, Mike. You want incredible quality, you want it brand new in the box, and you want it cheap, too? You *have* to be a Pentax user. :) Chris, Well, I take the smilie and I get your point, but, seriously, I _was_ talking about the FM3a, which is a manual, mechanical, metal classic SLR that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I've always liked the idea of an LX, just couldn't afford them before they were discontinued. BR was the one who suggested an F3, and they're just way too expensive for what I can spend (or for what you get). All the camera companies have done this with older mechanical SLRs. They control the outflow of NOS (new old stock) by pricing. Canon did it (not terribly successfully, actually) with the old New F-1n, after the switchover to EOS--the faster the old FD bodies sold, the more they raised the price to slow the sales. The motivation there is simply that the company knew that as soon as the stock of NOS cameras was depleted, that was the end of the game, and they wanted to be able to say that the camera remained current for as long as possible. So they conserved remaining resources by raising prices and slowing sales. Olympus did the same thing with the OM-4T, which was in the $400+ range when I first became aware of it, had risen to $600+ by the time I bought mine in 1994, and reached $1,000+ by the end of its lifespan. This is just a delaying tactic. It's a way to keep old products nominally current without having to make more of them. I'm sure part of the high price of the F3 is because the last batch was significantly more expensive to produce than even the next-to-last batch, much less earlier runs. But it's also partly because Nikon would rather not sell them, to make the last stock technically available for as long as possible. Despite this, the F3 is not a modern camera. It has an old shutter with a low sync speed and various other hallmarks of high 1980s style. Same thing with the LX. The FM3a is at least a re-engineered version of the old FM-style body--it's got a new shutter, a modern meter sensor, the latest kind of screen, and little touches like the film-view window that is characteristic of recent cameras. A Pentax camera would probably be better. It would have more of the Spottie--KX--K1000--MX--LX DNA and that would be a good thing. But what was the last MMM camera that Pentax introduced? Was it the LX of 1980? I don't know my Pentaxiana well enough to know. One of my sources at Pentax has noted many times that despite the comments on this list, the plain fact is that nobody was buying the LX new for a long time prior to its discontinuation. It was indeed just too expensive for the features it offered. Even diehard LX fans either already had their cameras or would buy used. My Pentax friend has told me many times that people say they want manual-focus bodies and then don't buy them. Even the FM3a is not selling well to Nikonians. Granted. I'm honestly not sure if I could afford to buy an updated MMM body if it cost $700+, and I'm honestly not sure Pentax could even offer an MMM body for $400+ in this day and age. But the fact remains, that's what I need. --Mike
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=3006619718 That is indeed nice, but it will sell for well over half the price of a new FM3a. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=3006396663 Don't need, or wish to pay for, the lenses, case, flash, and accessories. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2910782194 This has been on eBay forever--the seller originally wanted close to $500 for it, if memory serves. At least he's now down to $300+, which is almost within shouting distance of a reasonable price. Maybe two or three listings from now it will be priced for what it's worth, and someone will actually buy it. s Incidentally, this camera is very similar to mine, which I bought for $150. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2911097617 Wow, another good one--it's unusual to see two decent chrome ESII's on the board at the same time. Still, this will also go for more than half the price of the new FM3a (a chrome import FM3a is $469). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2910916863 You get the idea. Okay, I guess you're right, at least at this moment in time. That said (don't forget I said you were right--I don't always say that g), it still doesn't give the ESII settable shutter speeds under 1/60th, a modern screen, flash sync faster than 1/60th, a higher maximum speed than 1/1000th, AE lock, a light meter that's reliable in less light than about EV 4, or available diopters (even the folks in Colorado can't find the ones I need)...you get the idea. :-\ --Mike
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Mike Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seriously, I wish I had had the money and contacts to buy an LX2000 or one of the last LX's sold in Japan. To me (reliability aside, because, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues with mine) the LX is what a camera should be. Fingers crossed that they take hints from the FM3a but I'm not holding my breath HM, how about an MXa? Christian, Now you're talking. An MXa, like the MX but with aperture-priority AE added. And keep it hanging around in the catalog for us dinosaurs. I'd buy two, and be very grateful. I'd even buy a plain vanilla MX if they still made one. Anyone want to speculate what it would sell for if Pentax built one now? (Less than an FM3a, I'm sure, but probably too much for them to be able to sell enough.) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Bruce D. wrote: I was just looking at some of those pics, and noticed that the shutter dial goes from 1/60 to B with nothing in between. Is there no way to set slower shutter speeds on the ESII? JCO wrote: thats what SUCKS about the ES ESII, no manual speeds between B 60!!! It's just an example of what I mean when I say that cameras need to be updated as to their engineering, and that this is why an older cameras are seldom ENTIRELY satisfactory, however much we may love them. Granted, the ESII is very old, and it's not Pentax's most recent take on the MMM camera. But it has many shortcomings. The lack of manual speeds below 1/60th is only the most obvious. IMHO the LX with the B grip is the most comfortable Pentax to hold. The ESII is second. My own ideal Pentax (was it Boz who was dreaming lately?) would be either an updated ESII with a K-mount, or a simplified LX. The updated ESII would have to have: --K mount. --full range of speeds. --better light meter. --AE lock. --quieter shutter. --brighter screen. --available diopters. --modern battery (or just fewer batteries!). The self-timer could go for all I care; I don't require that the shutter operate without batteries; and the top plate could be chrome-plated polycarbonate, even. The simplified LX could have, or would need: --fixed prism, but still with diopter adjustment or available add-on diopters. --regular strap lugs. --quieter shutter (most pressing need!). --better reliability (no sticky mirror). --modern touches like film window. Again, I don't care about batteryless operation. I personally don't care about flash, but I realize that to sell at all, either would need at least 1/125th sync and TTL flash, and the top shutter speed would need to be at least 1/2000th. I know, this is never going to happen. Not only is the era of the classic metal-manual-mechanical SLR over, but the era of the deluxe SLR is probably over, and the era of the film SLR is beginning to draw to a close. --Mike
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Batteries!?! I have only had a battery in my Spotmatic when I first got it to check it out. I use an external meter whenever I shoot with my screwmount gear - 'don't need no stinkin' batteries' vbg I still have to take them out for a spin, I had three of them CLAd last year, César Panama City, Florida -- -Original Message- -- From: J. C. O'Connell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 3:44 AM -- -- I dont use my ES/ESII very often, but there is a workaround. -- 1.Set Desired Aperture -- 2. Set shutter speed to auto -- 3. Play with the film speed/exposure compensation dials until --you get the slow speed you want in the finder and shoot. -- What a KLUDGE!!! I like the spotmatic/SL much better as I'm not -- much of a AE fan anyway and thats the only reason for using -- a ES/ESII in the -- first place. -- The other drawback to the ES/ESII, is there are no slow speeds -- at all if the battery craps out. Ouch... -- JCO --
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Mine begin with 523, 528, and 532. I have to look again at mine. I think one of them has the number you speak of. My new one was purchased in the early 80s, so it must be one of the other ones... Cesar Panama City, Florida -- -Original Message- -- From: Peter Smekal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:25 AM -- -- Jose, -- -- I managed to buy what I think is one of the last built LX's. -- It was sold in -- Japan. The serial number is 536. I think all LX numbers -- start with 5. -- There also is a batchnumber, at least since the early -- nineties (its in the -- film cassette compartment), with information about when and -- where the body -- was produced. -- -- Regards -- Peter -- -- -- -- The LX's Serial Number somewhat indicates its age. I -- believe the last LX's -- built (1998?) had serial numbers starting with 435 and -- the very early -- models from the early 80's had serial numbers starting with -- 42X. The -- late models will also have all of the items Peter Alling -- mentioned along -- with all of the modifications Pentax made to the LX. -- -- Regards, -- -- Jose R. Rodriguez -- -- -- -Original Message- -- From: Mike Johnston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:21 PM -- To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Subject: RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax... -- -- -- I second William's recommendation. Buy a late model used -- LX (in good -- cosmetic condition) and have it CLA'd. The LX is a joy -- to use and it -- exudes -- quality... -- -- -- Okay, so tell me, how can you tell a late model LX? -- -- --Mike -- -- -- Peter Smekal -- Uppsala, Sweden -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Counterpoint - with five of these, and only one bought new - I have used and abused these to no end - people on this list can attest to that. The times I have sent them in for repair has been due to wear or a drop, or two. They get more use than any of my other cameras and I would expect them to therefore get more attention. I never hesitate to grab one whenever I go out to shoot. I have been unhappy with a repair once, and that was when it did not go to Pentax. From now on, Pentax Colorado gets the nod when looking at my LXen. By the way, the last one I got - from a list member - was the first I ever saw with a sticky mirror. I got a kick out of showing it to people. Of course they thought I was crazy. That one has been CLAd and is just fine. Cesar Panama City, Florida -- -Original Message- -- From: Bojidar Dimitrov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:20 AM -- -- Hi, -- -- From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- I'd buy an LX. -- -- -- Christian Skofteland wrote: -- -- After all your grumblings about it's reliability? ;-) -- -- Yep, my thought exactly. I have a newest-style LX which has been to -- Pentax twice, and it still ain't 100% healthy. Pentax tells me that -- uneven exposure within one frame is due to my lenses... -- -- Seriously, I wish I had had the money and contacts to buy an LX2000 -- or one of the last LX's sold in Japan. To me (reliability aside, -- because, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues with mine) the LX -- is what a camera should be. -- -- Theoretically, the LX is what a camera should be. But -- practically, it -- is a high-maintenance-never-know-if-it-will-work-OK camera. -- -- I have asked Pentax Germany to find me an LX2000, and they -- can't. All -- are gone. -- -- Boz -- --
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Never bothered me. Jim A. From: J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 02:59:14 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax... Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 03:00:04 -0500 thats what SUCKS about the ES ESII, no manual speeds between B 60!!! JCO -Original Message- From: Bruce Dayton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 2:48 AM To: Chris Brogden Subject: Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax... Chris, I was just looking at some of those pics, and noticed that the shutter dial goes from 1/60 to B with nothing in between. Is there no way to set slower shutter speeds on the ESII? Bruce
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Chris Brogden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Mike Johnston wrote: My own ideal Pentax (was it Boz who was dreaming lately?) would be either an updated ESII with a K-mount, or a simplified LX. The updated ESII would have to have: --K mount. --full range of speeds. --better light meter. --AE lock. --quieter shutter. --brighter screen. --available diopters. --modern battery (or just fewer batteries!). The self-timer could go for all I care; I don't require that the shutter operate without batteries; and the top plate could be chrome-plated polycarbonate, even. The K2 comes close. Full manual shutter speeds from 8 seconds to 1/1000, aperture priority, DOF preview, MLU, 95% viewfinder, metal body, 1/125 sync speed, etc. etc. It lacks the AE lock and still uses 76-series batteries, but then the LX and MX use those batteries, too. I believe the K2dmd has AE lock, doesn't it? Those are *much* harder to find, though :( -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Mark Roberts wrote: The K2 comes close. Full manual shutter speeds from 8 seconds to 1/1000, aperture priority, DOF preview, MLU, 95% viewfinder, metal body, 1/125 sync speed, etc. etc. It lacks the AE lock and still uses 76-series batteries, but then the LX and MX use those batteries, too. I believe the K2dmd has AE lock, doesn't it? Those are *much* harder to find, though :( Yup, the DMD version has an AE lock. Interestingly, Boz's rough guide to availability puts the K2 and the K2DMD on a equal footing, with both appearing a few times a year. chris
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Chris, Why do you prefer the ES battery setup to the ESII? JCO made the same point recently on the Spotmatic list. I've been surprised at how much I enjoy using my ESII, and the four silver-oxide batteries don't bother me. Even if you're able to use a lithium or other long-life battery with the ES, the additional ESII improvements (self-timer, shutter lock, built-in viewfinder blinds, all slow speeds visible in finder, SMC-coated eyepiece glass, etc.) seem to outweigh this. Joe ... I picked up a very nice chrome ES (which I prefer to the ESII, mainly because of the battery) for very little money. ... chris
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Hi! CS Actually, the ME is COMPLETELY dependent on batteries. The shutter is CS electronic. The proposed MXa would be like the FM3a: Mechanical shutter but CS electronic aperture priority and TTL flash sigh. Yes, but: 1. Mike seems to don't mind 2. ME Super can still do 1/125 and B exposures without the batteries. --- Boris Liberman www.geocities.com/dunno57 www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=38625
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Auto only sorry, it's the way they implemented auto exposure, simply removed the slow speed timer and replaced it with the electronic timer. Same reason the LX has mechanical high speeds but only electronic slow speeds. By the time the LX was released they had figured out how to give control over the low speeds and keep the meter active, (bet the solutions were related to each other). At 11:48 PM 2/12/2003 -0800, you wrote: Chris, I was just looking at some of those pics, and noticed that the shutter dial goes from 1/60 to B with nothing in between. Is there no way to set slower shutter speeds on the ESII? Bruce Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 9:09:24 PM, you wrote: CB On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Mike Johnston wrote: Huh? Truly MINT ( Like New ) ESII's are extremely hard to find and arent cheap when you do. It can take years just to find ONE let alone an awful lot of them. The ES models ( which I prefer ) are just as tuff in top notch condition. Now, worn and even worse UGLY ones are a different matter altogether, but who wants those? Yes, I have to agree with this. I bought my near-mint chrome ES II for $150 on eBay. There probably isn't one of those for sale a year, at least not at that price. Bought four different 50/1.4 Super-Multi-Coated Takumars to get just the right one. CB http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=3006619718 CB http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=3006396663 CB http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2910782194 CB http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2911097617 CB http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2910916863 CB You get the idea. CB chris Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
No mechanical Shutter speeds. The MXa would have to have the same as, or similar shutter to the one in the FM3a to satisfy him or for that matter me. Sorry to answer for you Mike but I think I'm right. At 12:07 PM 2/13/2003 +0200, you wrote: Hi! MJ Christian, MJ Now you're talking. An MXa, like the MX but with aperture-priority AE added. MJ And keep it hanging around in the catalog for us dinosaurs. MJ I'd buy two, and be very grateful. Well, I am a newbie of this list. Also I am quite new into Pentax realm. So, perhaps I am going to say an unsophisticated thing. But, isn't ME Super is what might pull Mike out of trouble? It is not absolutely mechanical, but it comes close. I think it is rather difficult to make aperture priority AE happen without some electricity involved... Anyway, my proposal to Mike would be either MX or ME Super. For $500 Mike could have 4 or 5 ME Supers so that he could pick his favorite two and use the rest for parts whenever necessary. --- Boris Liberman www.geocities.com/dunno57 www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=38625 Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Chris wrote: How can anyone in Pentax act surprised that no one is buying an MMM camera when they've jacked up the price on them to exorbitant levels? I don't think this is true. If Nikon can sell a brand new FM3a for under $500 US when they still have to recoup their RD on the hybrid shutter, then why can't Pentax offer a camera like the LX for a reasonable price? Because the Nikon is based on a camera whose developing costs was payed for by 1980 at the latest. It is manufactured at production facilities also payed for way back. The redesign was minor. Nikon has the largest market of any for such cameras. Hence, the volume is much larger. The LX is a much more complicated and expensive camera. If you want to compare it to a Nikon, compare it to the F3; they cost the same. The Pentax was also hand-made. Pentax loose money on the LX. I won't be surprised if the same is the case for the FM3a. It is most likely a gesture to their conservative user base more than a commercial succes. Pål
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Mike, Personally, I couldn't imagine using a metal, manual, mechanical camera. But if that's what you want . . . I would buy the FM3A. My father-in-law is a nature photographer (he's 75). He was recently in New Orleans and his beloved FM2 was stolen from his hotel room. One phone call to BH, and a brand new, black FM3A is on its way. He is s happy because it is exactly like his FM2 only better. I have to admit that its a sweet little camera. Aperture Priority, TTL flash that syncs at 1/250, useable without batteries. Nikon has maintained a serious committment to its manual-focus user base all these years. When the FM3A was released, they also released the 45mm f/2.8 P pancake lens. I bought one to use on my N80. I wound up selling it because I hated the manual focus part, but it is a really sweet lens. Beautiful Bokeh, sharp wide open (only f/2.8 though), beautiful color. My photos with that lens were stunning. If I am not mistaken, Popular photography proclaimed the 45mm and the Pentax 43mm to be two of the three best prime lenses ever or something like that. (So I don't get thrown off this list, I like my FA 50mm f/1.4 better). I think 43mm or 45mm is the perfect normal focal length. You add the 105 f/2.5 for portraits, and then start saving for the 28mm f/1.4 :-) . Now you're all set. If you want new AND metal, manual, mechanical, you have really limited your options. The good news is that it makes your decision pretty easy. Michael Mike Johnston wrote: If one day...I cannot buy a new camera body that supports my investment, then I will feel betrayed. Boz I hate to say this, but that day is pretty much here for me. Has been for a while now. Here's my big dilemma. I like buying bodies new, simply because I like to know there are no hidden problems, and I like to be able to replace a body immediately and with no hassle in case of loss. Plus, I like to know I have the latest in the basic technology--screens and light meters and such. Finally, I like to be able to find accessories. But the kind of camera I prefer is on life support. I've said it before--I like metal, manual, mechanical cameras. Classic-era SLRs. But the only company that's released one in recent years is Nikon. Much as I love my ES II, it's an antique. If it broke, or I dropped it, or it was stolen, it would take a lot of work to find a replacement. It has some peculiarities; it's outdated in some ways. It's o-l-d. I feel it every time I take it out of the house: it's not just a tool, it's a treasure. I keep coming back to the same conclusion: that I should just get an FM3a. If Pentax still made _one_ old-style metal-manual-mechanical SLR...one classic Pentax...but it doesn't. It's not like the FM3a is any great paragon. It's no modern F2 or Spotmatic or anything. It's kind of a cheap-ass, crappy example of the genre, actually. But it's the genre I prefer. And it's what's out there. Tough problem. So tell me what you'd do. Comments, jokes, opinions, sympathy, ridicule, from anybody, all welcome. --Mike
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
If I am not mistaken, Popular photography proclaimed the 45mm and the Pentax 43mm to be two of the three best prime lenses ever or something like that. (So I don't get thrown off this list, I like my FA 50mm f/1.4 better). Actually, the three best ever were supposedly the 45mm Nikkor P, the Pentax 31mm Limited, and the Cosina/Voigtlander 50/3.5. But thanks for your comments about the 45mm. I'm always interested in reading firsthand comments like that. --Mike
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Yeah, you're right, I did say that. But I'm too poor, and also quite possibly too cheap,* to buy a $1400 camera body. --Mike * That is, even if I were rich I might balk. Not a new one. I thought you wanted new? BR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can buy a F3hp new from BH (listed as in stock and also in Nikon's current catalog) Oh, sure, for FOURTEEN HUNDRED AND TWENTY-NINE DOLLARS. For that price I could have an LX! Maybe two!
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Joe Wilensky wrote: Chris, Why do you prefer the ES battery setup to the ESII? JCO made the same point recently on the Spotmatic list. It's simpler and better, IMO. The lithium battery it uses lasts forever. I also find it easier to carry a spare lithium than 4 separate 76's, and if one of my 76's runs low I hate the time involved in finding out which one it is. I'm the kind of person with 20 of the small button cells lying around everywhere in various states of discharge, and I hate having to keep track of them. I've been surprised at how much I enjoy using my ESII, and the four silver-oxide batteries don't bother me. Even if you're able to use a lithium or other long-life battery with the ES, the additional ESII improvements (self-timer, shutter lock, built-in viewfinder blinds, all slow speeds visible in finder, SMC-coated eyepiece glass, etc.) seem to outweigh this. Depends on how you're using the camera, I guess. I use an LX for pretty much all of my 35mm photography, so when I haul out the M42 stuff it's mostly just for fun. I never use the self timer, don't care about the shutter lock, and never use viewfinder blinds. The ES's viewfinder shows speeds down to 1 second, and that's enough for me. An SMC eyepiece would be nice, but not at the expense of battery convenience. To each his own. chris
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:17:59 -0600, Mike Johnston wrote: So tell me what you'd do. Comments, jokes, opinions, sympathy, ridicule, from anybody, all welcome. The FM3a will only last so long and may not be replaced by anything comparable. You probably should start working on altering your preference, or at least minimizing the agony that it can't be met. :-) TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
After all your grumblings about it's reliability? ;-) Seriously, I wish I had had the money and contacts to buy an LX2000 or one of the last LX's sold in Japan. To me (reliability aside, because, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues with mine) the LX is what a camera should be. Fingers crossed that they take hints from the FM3a but I'm not holding my breath HM, how about an MXa? Christian Skofteland [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:52 PM Subject: Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax... - Original Message - From: Mike Johnston Subject: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax... So tell me what you'd do. Comments, jokes, opinions, sympathy, ridicule, from anybody, all welcome. I'd buy an LX. William Robb
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, J. C. O'Connell wrote: And this is a bad thing in what way? :) You can buy an awful lot of ES II's for the price of one FM3a. Huh? Truly MINT ( Like New ) ESII's are extremely hard to find and arent cheap when you do. It can take years just to find ONE let alone an awful lot of them. The ES models ( which I prefer ) are just as tuff in top notch condition. Now, worn and even worse UGLY ones are a different matter altogether, but who wants those? Well, there's a huge middle ground between truly mint and ugly. I picked up a very nice chrome ES (which I prefer to the ESII, mainly because of the battery) for very little money. A quick search on eBay turns up *13* ES and ESII's, several of which are advertised as in excellent or better condition. Even if you factor in the cost of a CLA for each body, you can still get at least 5 or 6 ES bodies for the price of one FM3a. chris
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Bruce Rubenstein wrote: You can buy a F3hp new from BH (listed as in stock and also in Nikon's current catalog). So you don't have to settle for one of those cheap-ass FM3a's. They also list 28 different MF lenses. To get what you can with Nikon, 5 minutes and a credit card you have to become Indiana Jones with Pentax. That's a very good point. The flip side is that to buy a new Nikon MF setup comparable to what you can get for $500 in Pentax screwmount, you'll need several credit cards. chris
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Even if you factor in the cost of a CLA for each body, you can still get at least 5 or 6 ES bodies for the price of one FM3a. chris Do you know someone who CAN CLA the ES ESII? The electronics parts are long gone and everybody I know who does spotties, wont even touch an ES or ESII. That's the main reason I was willing to pay bigger bucks for nearly perfect examples... But it took a LO time to find them, even on ebay. Plus they are alot prettier :) !!! JCO
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Mike, I second William's recommendation. Buy a late model used LX (in good cosmetic condition) and have it CLA'd. The LX is a joy to use and it exudes quality... Regards, Jose R. Rodriguez -Original Message- From: William Robb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 8:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax... - Original Message - From: Mike Johnston Subject: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax... So tell me what you'd do. Comments, jokes, opinions, sympathy, ridicule, from anybody, all welcome. I'd buy an LX. William Robb
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
It will be new, unused, in the box, with a warranty (like Mike wants), and you can't get that, no matter how many credit cards you have for screw mount gear that hasn't been made in 30 years. If you want used there's plenty of not too expensive, non AI 30 year old Nikon stuff around too. You can buy Nikon MF gear new or used. BR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's a very good point. The flip side is that to buy a new Nikon MF setup comparable to what you can get for $500 in Pentax screwmount, you'll need several credit cards. chris
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
- Original Message - From: Gary L. Murphy Subject: Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax... William Robb wrote: I'd buy an LX. But I've heard those are high maitenance... kinda like woman r, d, g Sure, and without wanting to sound homophopic, I wouldn't trade my woman for a member of the other team either. William Robb
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Here in Portland, OR, I had Advanced Camera Repair work on my chrome ESII. The mirror would lock up and sometimes one of the shutter curtains would hang up. Camera works fine now. A few years ago I took a black ES to the same shop and they refused to work on it then. Sent it to Essex Camera in N.J. and they worked on it. Still works fine today. Jim A. From: J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:05:38 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax... Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:06:20 -0500 Even if you factor in the cost of a CLA for each body, you can still get at least 5 or 6 ES bodies for the price of one FM3a. chris Do you know someone who CAN CLA the ES ESII? The electronics parts are long gone and everybody I know who does spotties, wont even touch an ES or ESII. That's the main reason I was willing to pay bigger bucks for nearly perfect examples... But it took a LO time to find them, even on ebay. Plus they are alot prettier :) !!! JCO
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
William Robb wrote: Sure, and without wanting to sound homophopic, I wouldn't trade my woman for a member of the other team either. Touche' :-) -- Later, Gary
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
And this is a bad thing in what way? :) You can buy an awful lot of ES II's for the price of one FM3a. Huh? Truly MINT ( Like New ) ESII's are extremely hard to find and arent cheap when you do. It can take years just to find ONE let alone an awful lot of them. The ES models ( which I prefer ) are just as tuff in top notch condition. Now, worn and even worse UGLY ones are a different matter altogether, but who wants those? Yes, I have to agree with this. I bought my near-mint chrome ES II for $150 on eBay. There probably isn't one of those for sale a year, at least not at that price. Bought four different 50/1.4 Super-Multi-Coated Takumars to get just the right one. It's not a tool, it's a treasure. --Mike
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Mike Johnston wrote: Huh? Truly MINT ( Like New ) ESII's are extremely hard to find and arent cheap when you do. It can take years just to find ONE let alone an awful lot of them. The ES models ( which I prefer ) are just as tuff in top notch condition. Now, worn and even worse UGLY ones are a different matter altogether, but who wants those? Yes, I have to agree with this. I bought my near-mint chrome ES II for $150 on eBay. There probably isn't one of those for sale a year, at least not at that price. Bought four different 50/1.4 Super-Multi-Coated Takumars to get just the right one. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=3006619718 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=3006396663 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2910782194 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2911097617 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=2910916863 You get the idea. chris
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Apologies for listing all those eBay auctions... just didn't think. Guess no one's getting a deal on ES and ESII's tonight. chris
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Yup, it depends on your priorities. I love the old Pentax lenses, and the fact that they're often dirt cheap (for some focal lengths, anyway). If Mike likes the idea of buying new, then Nikon definitely sounds like the best choice. chris On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Bruce Rubenstein wrote: It will be new, unused, in the box, with a warranty (like Mike wants), and you can't get that, no matter how many credit cards you have for screw mount gear that hasn't been made in 30 years. If you want used there's plenty of not too expensive, non AI 30 year old Nikon stuff around too. You can buy Nikon MF gear new or used. BR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's a very good point. The flip side is that to buy a new Nikon MF setup comparable to what you can get for $500 in Pentax screwmount, you'll need several credit cards. chris
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
You can buy a F3hp new from BH (listed as in stock and also in Nikon's current catalog) Oh, sure, for FOURTEEN HUNDRED AND TWENTY-NINE DOLLARS. For that price I could have an LX! Maybe two! --Mike
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, J. C. O'Connell wrote: Even if you factor in the cost of a CLA for each body, you can still get at least 5 or 6 ES bodies for the price of one FM3a. chris Do you know someone who CAN CLA the ES ESII? The electronics parts are long gone and everybody I know who does spotties, wont even touch an ES or ESII. Hmmm... I just assumed that my local place would treat them the same as a Spottie. I should probably check into that. Then again, they can't treat them much worse... chris
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Mike Johnston wrote: You can buy a F3hp new from BH (listed as in stock and also in Nikon's current catalog) Oh, sure, for FOURTEEN HUNDRED AND TWENTY-NINE DOLLARS. For that price I could have an LX! Maybe two! Geez, Mike. You want incredible quality, you want it brand new in the box, and you want it cheap, too? You *have* to be a Pentax user. :) chris
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
Seriously, I wish I had had the money and contacts to buy an LX2000 or one of the last LX's sold in Japan. To me (reliability aside, because, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues with mine) the LX is what a camera should be. Fingers crossed that they take hints from the FM3a but I'm not holding my breath HM, how about an MXa? Christian, Now you're talking. An MXa, like the MX but with aperture-priority AE added. And keep it hanging around in the catalog for us dinosaurs. I'd buy two, and be very grateful. --Mike
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
I second William's recommendation. Buy a late model used LX (in good cosmetic condition) and have it CLA'd. The LX is a joy to use and it exudes quality... Okay, so tell me, how can you tell a late model LX? --Mike
Re: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
At the current prices I've been seeing on e-bay 3. At 11:12 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, you wrote: You can buy a F3hp new from BH (listed as in stock and also in Nikon's current catalog) Oh, sure, for FOURTEEN HUNDRED AND TWENTY-NINE DOLLARS. For that price I could have an LX! Maybe two! --Mike Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
RE: If Pentax just made _ONE_ real, old-style Pentax...
There are a number of tells. 1.) Half moon shaped shutter lock. 2.) ISO Film speed to 3200. 3.) Shutter curtain missing two white dot's on upper and lower edge. 4.) Second Meter switch built into exposure compensation lock release. Did I miss any? At 11:21 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, you wrote: I second William's recommendation. Buy a late model used LX (in good cosmetic condition) and have it CLA'd. The LX is a joy to use and it exudes quality... Okay, so tell me, how can you tell a late model LX? --Mike Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
