Re: economic advice

2003-08-14 Thread Devine, James
Doug
 And why should the SK or Chinese masses listen to a critique if we've
 got no idea of what to put in place of the status quo?

I would hope that any leftists who lived in China or S. Korea (rather than foreign 
gringos like yours truly) would listen to organized elements of the opposition and 
learn from them, using any expertise to develop demands on the state that would 
increase the standard of living and power of the oppressed. The vision of what should 
be -- to replace capitalism -- would hopefully develop in tandem.

Of course, the process has to be global, but must start local. 


Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine



Re: Green

2003-08-14 Thread Devine, James
the one thing that all anarchists seem to agree with is that centralized government 
(the state) should be abolished -- as soon as possible. But without a centralized 
govt, how do people deal with issues that affect us all, e.g., global warming? how do 
we prevent the neighboring anarchist collective from building nukes?
 
I prefer Marx, whose vision of the withering away of the state (as I understand it) 
refers to the _subodination_ of the state to the people, so that the _distinction_ 
between the state and society withers away. 
 
That's a long-term goal, one that can't be achieved if one abolishes the state as soon 
as possible. Abolition of the state NOW simply unleashes the forces of Hobbesian havoc 
 (anarchy in the worst sense of the word) that are present in actually-existing 
capitalist society. Instead, the state needs to be controlled. 
 
Some anarchists would say that delaying the withering away was opportunist or 
something, allowing a new class of state managers to arise. But abolishing the state 
right away allows rule by those with the most AK-47s. 
 
of course, it ain't bloody likely that the state will be abolished soon -- unless the 
system melts down.  I doubt that an environmental crisis would produce a very 
attractive anarchy.
 
The IWW (OBU) was great, as a first step in the development of a working-class 
movement. Politics are needed too. 
 
Jim

-Original Message- 
From: Yoshie Furuhashi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tue 8/12/2003 7:31 AM 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Green



is there a color which represents democracy? I'd prefer democracy to
anarchism (which precludes democracy).
Jim

Anarchy, to me, means democracy, i.e., collective self-government,
the very ideal to which Lenin spoke in _The State and Revolution.
Not all those who call themselves anarchists agree with me on this
interpretation, though.  :-

I also like the idea of One Big Union.  Would you have freedom from
wage slavery?  Then come join the Grand Industrial Band!  Would you
from mis'ry and hunger be free?  Come on, do your share, lend a
hand!  Listen to Utah Phillips sing the Joe Hill song There Is a
Power in a Union at

http://video.pbs.org:8080/ramgen/joehill/UPThereIsPowerInAUnion.rm?altplay=UPThereIsPowerInAUnion.rm.

I like the Black Cat log of the Industrial Workers of the World, too
(I have a T-shirt with the logo on it), except that cats rarely go
for collective actions.  :-0
--
Yoshie

* Bring Them Home Now! http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/
* Calendars of Events in Columbus:
http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/calendar.html,
http://www.freepress.org/calendar.php,  http://www.cpanews.org/
* Student International Forum: http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/
* Committee for Justice in Palestine: http://www.osudivest.org/
* Al-Awda-Ohio: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Al-Awda-Ohio
* Solidarity: http://solidarity.igc.org/





Green

2003-08-14 Thread Kenneth Campbell
INTRO: I knew Bob Hunter fairly well in a previous incarnation. Bob
co-founded Greenpeace. His column appeared weekly. He wrote often about
global warming. It was humorous to see his winter columns about global
warming run during some terrible winter storms -- humorous to read the
mail responses that called him stupid. As if localized weather indicated
a trend.

But this kind of trend (below) is noteworthy. I don't see the
reactionary types (either left or right) arguing about the enviro stuff
at the moment. While I do think the planet is much more powerful than
humanity, perhaps we do make some effect.

Maybe Ian is right in his prognostication... the next unifying
revolutionary force will be green, not red. Everyone is immediately
interested.

After all... Everyone talks about the weather... Even the 90+% of the
North American populace that is already proletarian.

Ken.

--
Education is a system of imposed ignorance.
  -- Noam Chomsky


--- cut here ---



Heat blamed for dozens of deaths across Europe

Associated Press
Monday, Aug. 11, 2003


Paris  About 50 people have died of heat-related illnesses in the Paris
region in the past few days, the head of France's emergency physicians'
association says.

Patrick Pelloux, in an interview Sunday with TF1 television, criticized
France's surgeon-general for characterizing the deaths over the previous
four days as natural.

They dare to talk about  natural deaths  I absolutely do not agree,
he said.

Health Ministry spokesman Mathieu Monnet said officials did not have
figures on deaths related to the heat that has scorched France and other
parts of Europe over the past week. Paris has baked under temperatures
at or exceeding 37 degrees.

Temperatures across Europe continues relentlessly hot, with Britain
sweltering through its hottest day on record Sunday and Alpine glaciers
melting.

The heat and drought-driven fires across the continent prompted Pope
John Paul II to urge people to pray for rain.

The French ministry conceded there had been a noticeable increase in
hospital visits by the aged. Hospitals in the Paris region have been
worst affected most and have increased the number of beds for urgent
cases.

But the ministry also appeared to play down suggestions of a large
number of heat-related deaths, saying emergency services have not
witnessed a massive flood of cases.

Difficulties encountered are comparable to previous years, it said in
a statement.

Other experts disagreed.

Jean-Louis San Marco, president of the National Health Prevention and
Education Institute, said in a newspaper interview that more must be
done.

We are facing a human drama, carnage the like of which doubtless has
never been seen in France, Mr. Marco said in Monday's Le Parisien. Yet
the impression given is of radio silence. It makes me want to scream.

Elderly people are dying of heat, but indifference is the order of the
day because theirs are clandestine, invisible deaths. Yet I assure you
these are not natural deaths, as is said, and in many cases are
avoidable.

The leader of the opposition Socialist Party, Franois Hollande, joined
the chorus of criticism, accusing the government of being passive and
inert.

The government was meeting Monday with the French power giant EDF to
assess the consequences on electricity production.

Rising river temperatures are affecting power plants that use water and
forcing nuclear plants to scale back output.

Nicole Fontaine, the government's industry minister, urged people to cut
power use, because France most likely will not be able to depend on
European neighbours in case of an energy shortage.

All of Europe has been hit by the heat wave and the drought, and this
limits available energy resources, she said.

About 40 people across Europe are officially said to have died in the
heat wave that has fanned forest fires, destroyed livestock and set
record temperatures in many cities.

A record high for overnight temperatures in Paris was set Sunday into
Monday, when the fell to only 25.5 degrees, according to Mto France,
the national weather service. The previous record was 24, set in 1976.

Dominique Escale of Mto France said temperatures throughout France
were expected to drop by midweek, but would remain well above average.
Forecasters predict a high of 29 degrees Celsius for Thursday in the
French capital.

In Britain, the heat is also making life just miserable. You can't get
any respite from it, Londoner Ranald Davidson said.

The British national weather service recorded a reading of 37.9 degrees
Celsius at Heathrow Airport, outside a parched and baking London, and
38.1 degrees at Gravesend in southern England. Northern parts of the
country were cooler, and torrential rain created problems in North
Yorkshire.

Germans, too, have had record heat. In the Bavarian city of Roth, the
temperature hit nearly 40.6 on Saturday, beating the previous record of
40 degrees, also in Bavaria and set in 1983.

Pope John Paul II made his 

Re: The Road to Serfdom

2003-08-14 Thread Anders Schneiderman
Maybe I'm not reading carefully enough, but did you answered Doug's question about 
what your alternative would be?  You say what you would not advise them to do, but 
that's really not an answer.   I'm sure they could come up all by themselves lots of 
reasons why what their approach has serious problems, but if you can't tell them what 
they might do instead, they aren't any better off.

Thanks,
Anders

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/11/03 12:33PM 
In response to Doug's comments (below):

I hope I did not give the idea that I thought there was some simple set 
of policies that countries could follow that would relatively quickly 
and painlessly produce development.  

But that said, if I were advising South Koreans I would certainly not 
say that development would be advanced by implementing policies that 
increase so called labor flexibility which means making it easier to 
layoff workers and use temporary workers.  Or that development would be 
advanced by creating massive special economic zones where foreign 
owners and workers can have their own housing, where English would be 
the official language, where foreign companies would be allowed to 
establish their own for profit schools and hospitals (but Koreans could 
not although they can use the facilities), where foreign investors 
would get to avoid many labor and environmental regulations, and so 
on.  But that is what the Korean government is doing.  And all because 
it sees export led growth as the only way forward and critical to that 
is attracting more and more foreign direct investment.  I doubt that 
you would think that those are good policies.

And I also doubt that you would think it helpful for stable development 
if all the countries in the region intensified their competing with 
each other to produce the same export goods for the same markets, with 
labor costs and conditions being sacrificed to win the competition.  
Wasn't that a part of the underlying cause of the 1997-98 crisis?

So, yes, capitalism is not hospitable to development.  It appears to 
becoming increasingly less so.  That is not the same as saying that 
third world countries are not participating more in the international 
division of labor.  They are, but all the indicators certainly suggest 
that this activity is not leading to what I would imagine you and I 
would call development.

So, doesn't it make sense to be critical of export-led growth 
strategies even if we recognize the difficulties involved in developing 
a new strategy.  I would think offering that critical perspective in 
the context of an engagement with on-going struggles of workers in 
those countries is precisely what we should be doing.

Marty

Quoting Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Martin Hart-Landsberg wrote:
 
 So, my point is that this kind of strategy is not one that we should
 be
 endorsing as providing a real framework for general advancement of
 working class interests.
 
 Well yeah, but how? Suppose you were advising the S Korean
 government
 - what would you say? Or the Haitian government?
 
 Years ago, at a little roundtable on the World Bank organized by
 Susan George, a bunch of us were gassing on in our usual radical
 manner when a former official in Manley's finance ministry in
 Jamaica
 said, You have no idea what it's like to have to come up with $100
 million in hard currency next week. I've never forgotten that. He's
 right - I had no idea, and still don't. But I think about it a lot.
 
 Doug
 



The smell of TINA spirit

2003-08-14 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
Well, I have used this term Left and leftism, but I don't really like it.
For me, left and right essentially refer to a distinction within bourgeois
and petty-bourgeois politics, the so-called dries on the one hand who deny
the existence of the social question, and the so-called wets on the other
hand, who recognise that a social question exists, and that something must
be done about it. But this distinction does not refer to any coherent
political tradition, but to political policy, and specific political
traditions in American culture may contain both wet and dry elements in
a specific admixture. The term originates from the aftermath of the French
revolution of 1789, acknowledged to have been a bourgeois revolution of some
sort, not a proletarian one. In addition, left may connote abandoned and
right may connote correct, and some rightwing people are more left than
the people who say they are left, whereas some leftists are to the right of
the right in particular positions. So the use of the terms Left and Right
more often that not implies a lack of political clarity, rather than
clarifying things, it refers to the morality of a policy stance. Much better
terms are progressive and reactionary because then at least we can
debate what progress is and is not, rather than engaging in moral fervour.

I have never believed in TINA in my life, because I have been raised and
educated in the spirit that there is always an alternative and that there is
always a solution, and that if I do not recognise that, this must be because
I am being stupid or lazy or recalcitrant or inconstructive. No genuine
Marxist can believe in TINA because as I explained on Marxmail and OPE-L
before, this conflicts with the Marxian principle that humanity only sets
itself such tasks as it can solve, a principle formulated in various ways
by Marx in his youth, when he discusses how society recognises problems, but
poses them falsely, requiring critical thought to sort it out. I do not deny
the existence of pessimism, cynicism, nihilism and so forth, but I insist on
discovering the objective material and social roots of these moods. Just as
a very simple individualist example, if I eat badly and irregularly, my mood
declines and my thoughts are more inclined to be negative, no matter what I
do. I am not aware of medical research into the subtleties of this, but this
is a material fact.

But nor do I see much point in denying the left-right distinction such as it
is practically used. Following Marx, the task is always to build a bridge
from the old categorisation to a new categorisation. All the answers and
solutions are already there, it is just a question of reframing, and the
will to reframe, and it is much better to think thematically rather than
doctrinally, since our individual theoretical capacity is limited anyhow. I
would say that there are large numbers of Americans who are interested in
the sorts of things I have concerned myself with in my life, so from my
point of view there is a Left, it is just not organised, and people do not
understand organisation, what it means, and the overall goals are not clear.
A lot of American left-wing political discussion concerns simply a process
of validation of experience, that is the real problem. It isn't a
constructive, goal-oriented process, in general terms, although there are
many exceptions. The real problems of socialist politics are often different
from what they think they are, but their own theory prevents them from
seeing it. But that doesn't mean there are no solutions or answers. They are
there, you just have to see them, critically reframe things so that they are
solvable.

A New Zealand comrade of mine went to California, at the time of the first
Iraq war, and made a video of the street protests. He commented upon the
fact, that there were a lot of people protesting in the street, but few
organised marches or mass rallys. There was just all these people hanging
about on their own, I wondered what the precise meaning of this was. We were
interested in that phenomenon at the time, because we were discussing
organisation, and what Americans mean by this. I think this is the symptom
you talk about. But it is a symptom, not the disease itself.

Jurriaan


Re: quote du jour

2003-08-14 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
The quote is from the movie Pumping Iron, a Schwarzendegger classic.

See further: http://slate.msn.com/id/2074008/

- Original Message -
From: Max B. Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] quote du jour


 source, please.

 max

 -Original Message-
 From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Devine,
 James
 Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 8:11 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: quote du jour


 I was always dreaming about very powerful people, dictators, people
 like Jesus, being remembered for thousands of years. -- Arnold
 Schwartzenegger

 
 Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine



Re: quote du jour

2003-08-14 Thread Max B. Sawicky
source, please.

max

-Original Message-
From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Devine,
James
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 8:11 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: quote du jour


I was always dreaming about very powerful people, dictators, people
like Jesus, being remembered for thousands of years. -- Arnold
Schwartzenegger


Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine


Re: Green

2003-08-14 Thread Kenneth Campbell
Yoshie wrote:

I'd prefer Red, Black, and Green together (the colors of
revolutionary socialism, anarchism, and environmentalism),
also the colors of the pan-African Black Liberation Flag.

Sounds good to me. I adopt that as my flag.

But don't tell anyone I agree with you. I would hate to be labeled.

Ken.

--
Religion is a belief in a Supreme Being;
Science is a belief in a Supreme Generalization.
  -- Charles H. Fort
 Wild Talents


Re: imperialism

2003-08-14 Thread Doug Henwood
Devine, James wrote:

Finally, I'm confused: Doug, you say that the system isn't one of
competition among major powers anymore but also point to dispersed
and polycentric power. Where are the centers of power that are
competing with the US if not in the core? China?
I said that there was little competition for real estate among the
imperial powers (or was, until the Bush admin tried to bring back the
good old days). Dispersed and polycentric doesn't necessarily mean
competitive. China's hardly competing with the U.S. right now, given
that so much of its production is by and for U.S. (and other) MNCs.
I wrote about all this at some length in a review of Empire:
http://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Empire.html.
Doug


China and market socialism (was Road to Serfdom)

2003-08-14 Thread Charlie
China and market socialism

Concerning China in particular, Jim Devine wrote:

Rather than discussing market socialism, I think it would be worth
pen-l's while to discuss Charlie Andrews' proposal for competing
not-for-profit enterprises (in his FROM CAPITALISM TO EQUALITY).

The last two chapters of From Capitalism to Equality outline an economy of
firms that do not retain profits, nor even aim at them, though the firms
must break even. However, they do compete, and the result is technological
vigor and all that.
These institutions are workable when taking over the U.S. economy. I can't
say whether they were relevant to China in the early 1980s, when the drive
to dismantle the socialist economy and install a capitalist economy became
obvious. See, for example, on-the-ground reports from William Hinton.
That said, the problem in China was not a problem of figuring out economic
institutions that would overcome imbalance and inefficiency from the Mao
era. (Marty) It was not a tragic policy dilemma (need to promote
efficiency and economic vigor - only remedy is market socialist measures -
market socialism stumbles into capitalism).
1. Any government with a high-priority purpose can figure out institutions
to achieve the purpose. No genius is necessary, and the necessary
brainpower is available.
2. The preceding period was not the Mao era. On the surface it was the Mao
era until 1976. The problem of the era was that the Chinese government did
not have a predominant purpose. The socialists could never get the room
they needed to develop the economy, because the capitalist factions had
enough power to stymie or distort new measures. On the other hand, the
leading adherents of capitalism had bad reputations and could not act boldly.
3. The standoff finally broke in favor of the adherents of capitalism. The
thing to figure out is whether the socialists could have won the struggle
by different political means.
Of course there are nuances to this, but I think it comes down to these
points, not a tragic policy dilemma (need to promote efficiency and
economic vigor - only remedy is market socialist measures - market
socialism tends to stumble into capitalism).
Charles Andrews
Publisher's Web site for From Capitalism to Equality is at
http://www.laborrepublic.org


Re: green pensions?

2003-08-14 Thread Eubulides
- Original Message -
From: Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 1:00 PM
Subject: [PEN-L] green pensions?


from BusinessWeek, Au. 18-25, 2003:

The Greening of Pension Plans

Cash-strapped U.S. steel (X ) may have hit on a solution for companies
scrounging for the dough to pump up pension funds that were recently
flattened by the stock market's slide. Just sign over some forests -- or
other valuable assets.

On Aug. 4, the steelmaker told analysts it was asking for government
permission to transfer 170,000 acres of timberland, mostly in Alabama,
to its pension funds. The company values the assets at $100 million. But
the trees are young so the valuation will grow over time,

==

So Paul Davidson is wrong and money does grow on trees? :-)

Ian


Re: quote du jour

2003-08-14 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
I went to see Terminator 3 tonight, it was kind of circumstantial. But I
don't think many people will remember it in ten years time. Spectacular
stunts though, and some wickedly funny sets. I got out of the theatre
without being eaten.

Alternative quotes:

1. I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it
through not dying - Woody Allen

2. I don't want to achieve immortality by being inducted into the Hall of
Fame. I want to achieve immortality by not dying - Leo Durocher (New York
Yankees, Cincinnati Reds, St. Louis Cardinals, and Brooklyn Dodgers)

3. I hold it ever
Virtue and cunning were endowments greater
Than nobleness and riches. Careless heirs
My the two latter darken and expend;
But immortality attends the former,
Making a man a god.
- William Shakespeare, Pericles Prince of Tyre (Cerimon at III, ii)

4. No one could ever meet death for his country without the hope of
immortality.
- Cicero (Marcus Tullius Cicero), Tusculanarum Disputationum (I, 15)

5. Do you believe in immortality? No, and one life is enough for me - Albert
Einstein

Jurriaan.

- Original Message -
From: Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 2:10 AM
Subject: [PEN-L] quote du jour


 I was always dreaming about very powerful people, dictators, people
 like Jesus, being remembered for thousands of years. -- Arnold
 Schwartzenegger

 
 Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine




Re: Reply to an Observer article by the Italian Refounded CP

2003-08-14 Thread Louis Proyect
A trap set for protesters  Michael Hardt
Friday February 21, 2003
The Guardian
full: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,899852,00.html

HARDT: Corresponding in part to the new US anti-Europeanism, there is
today in Europe and across the world a growing anti-Americanism. In
particular, the coordinated protests last weekend against the war were
animated by various kinds of anti-Americanism - and that is inevitable.
The US government has left no doubt that it is the author of this war
and so protest against the war must, inevitably, be also protest against
the United States.
REPLY: What is the evidence of this anti-Americanism? Carrying around a
picture of George W. Bush with bloody fangs or something? Indeed, this
business of anti-Americanism is mainly a preoccupation of the
red-baiting left or the reactionary bourgeois press as exemplified by
this quote from the Murdoch press last Sunday:
Some on the old left see the problem. The issue is not Blair or spin,
it's not even Bush, it's tyranny. Veterans like Arnold Wesker and Salman
Rushdie and, most trenchantly, Julie Burchill - I'll come back to her -
are pro-war. The Wesker-Rushdie line is that Saddam's reign has been so
terrible for the people of Iraq that common humanity alone justifies
war. Wesker has for a long time advocated the setting up of an
International Benign Force - an army that would be sent in to sort out
the bad guys. But, failing that, reflex anti-Americanism - or, indeed,
anti-Blairism - shouldn't trap anybody into pig-headed pacifism when a
brief act of belligerence can free the people.
If this is the sort of thing that Hardt is alluding to, he's wasting our
time per usual.
HARDT: The globalisation protest movements were far superior to the
anti-war movements in this regard. They not only recognised the complex
and plural nature of the forces that dominate capitalist globalisation
today - the dominant nation states, certainly, but also the
International Monetary Fund, the World Trade Organisation, the major
corporations, and so forth - but they imagined an alternative,
democratic globalisation consisting of plural exchanges across national
and regional borders based on equality and freedom.
REPLY: But the one thing they did not recognize was that imperialism was
the nature of the beast, rather than unregulated capital flows which
would be restrained by a Tobin Tax or some other such nonsense. What
irks the good professor is that the Starbucks window-breakers have been
marginalized in the current phase of the struggle and that
brontosaurus-Marxists like the WWP, the British SWP et al are taking the
initiative.
HARDT: One of the great achievements of the globalisation protest
movements, in other words, has been to put an end to thinking of
politics as a contest among nations or blocs of nations.
Internationalism has been reinvented as a politics of global network
connections with a global vision of possible futures. In this context,
anti-Europeanism and anti-Americanism no longer make sense.
REPLY: global network connections with a global vision of possible
futures? Sounds like a Verizon commercial.
HARDT: It is unfortunate but inevitable that much of the energies that
had been active in the globalisation protests have now at least
temporarily been redirected against the war. We need to oppose this war,
but we must also look beyond it and avoid being drawn into the trap of
its narrow political logic. While opposing the war we must maintain the
expansive political vision and open horizons that the globalisation
movements have achieved. We can leave to Bush, Chirac, Blair, and
Schrder the tired game of anti-Europeanism and anti-Americanism.
REPLY: It is unfortunate but inevitable that much of the energies that
had been active in the globalisation protests have now at least
temporarily been redirected against the war? Get used to it professor,
we are living in an epoch of wars, civil wars and revolution. Time to
put the Spinoza back on the shelf and reread Lenin--and for some first
people, including Hardt based on the evidence, to read him for the first
time.
--

The Marxism list: www.marxmail.org



Best-laid plans

2003-08-14 Thread Louis Proyect
NY Times, August 10, 2003
U.S. Moved to Undermine Iraqi Military Before War
By DOUGLAS JEHL with DEXTER FILKINS
WASHINGTON, Aug. 9 — The United States military, the Central Intelligence 
Agency and Iraqi exiles began a broad covert effort inside Iraq at least 
three months before the war to forge alliances with Iraqi military leaders 
and persuade commanders not to fight, say people involved in the effort.

Even after the war began, the Bush administration received word that top 
officials of the Iraqi government, most prominently the defense minister, 
Gen. Sultan Hashem Ahmed al-Tai, might be willing to cooperate to bring the 
war to a quick end and to ensure a postwar peace, current and former 
American officials say.

General Hashem's ministry was never bombed by the United States during the 
war, and the Pentagon's decision not to knock Iraqi broadcasting off the 
air permitted him to appear on television with what some Iraqi exiles have 
called a veiled signal to troops that they should not fight the invading 
allies.

But Washington's war planners elected not to try to keep him or other Iraqi 
leaders around after the war to help them keep the peace, a decision some 
now see as a missed opportunity.

General Hashem's fate is not known. Some Iraqi exiles say he was shot, and 
perhaps killed, by Saddam Hussein's supporters during the war. Other exiles 
and American officials say he survived the war. Two Iraqi leaders said his 
family had staged a mock funeral to give the impression that he was dead.

Much more than that is uncertain about the murky operation — not least, the 
degree of its success.

People behind the effort, including Iraqis who were involved inside the 
country, said in interviews that they had succeeded in persuading hundreds 
of Iraqi officers to quit the war and to send their subordinates away. 
Iraqi military officers confirmed that after Americans and Iraqis made 
contact with them, they carried out acts of sabotage and helped disband 
their units as the war began.

American officials and two Iraqi exiles who played central roles said the 
American military spirited out of the country several high-level Iraqi 
military and intelligence officers who had cooperated with the United 
States and its allies.

But in interviews in Washington, Europe and the Middle East, more than half 
a dozen people with direct knowledge of the events said the United States 
might have missed an opportunity that might have stabilized Iraq as the 
government crumbled.

American and Arab officials said that as the war approached, the Bush 
administration was skeptical of the idea of cutting a lasting deal with 
high-level Iraqi officials like General Hashem. Washington, in the end, was 
reluctant to leave any high-ranking officials from the Hussein government 
in power after the war.

Such an agreement, they said, might have required that some officials with 
ties to Mr. Hussein stay in power for a time, but might have eased the 
entry of American troops into Baghdad and helped keep Iraq's infrastructure 
intact.

A lot of people in Baghdad saw their interest in not fighting, in 
adapting, in getting rid of Saddam and moving forward, said Whitley 
Bruner, a former C.I.A. station chief in Baghdad who is now a private 
consultant. He is said by people involved in the operation to have helped 
relay messages from people inside Iraq to the United States government.

Senior Arab officials and several United States officials said General 
Hashem was identified as a potential ally as early as 1995, when he became 
defense minister. The officials described him as a capable, well-liked 
infantry officer who had no close connections to Mr. Hussein and his family.

From the time he was appointed defense minister, he was always someone who 
was looked at as being someone you could deal with, said a senior Saudi 
official, whose government had long urged the United States to promote a 
coup in Iraq rather than a military invasion as a way of toppling Mr. 
Hussein's government. Sultan Hashem was seen as someone who was more 
sensible, who could reach rational conclusions, and was not a Baathist 
ideologue or Baathist fanatic.

A senior Defense Department official refused to comment on any messages 
passed between the United States and General Hashem. But he said there 
might have been other reasons that the United States left his ministry intact.

In any centralized, controlled society, soldiers will fight to the last 
order, the official said. If you cut off the head, the arms and legs will 
keep going, so you want to keep in place the structure that could allow a 
surrender.

full: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/10/international/worldspecial/10IRAQ.html

===

LA Times, August 10, 2003

Iraq Seen as Terror Target
Anti-Western extremists have been infiltrating, officials say, and may look 
for opportunities to attack symbols of America and its allies.

By Alissa J. Rubin , Times Staff Writer
BAGHDAD — The powerful 

Re: Reply to an Observer article by the Italian Refounded CP

2003-08-14 Thread Eubulides
- Original Message -
From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 But the February 15th demonstrations were mounted despite the grumbling
 of Michael Hardt that it was diverting attention from the real
 movement, namely anti-globalization.

=



[Oh really? And isn't time for us to ditch the epithet anti-globalization,
to beat a dead horse already?]



A trap set for protesters


Michael Hardt
Friday February 21, 2003
The Guardian


There is a new anti-Europeanism in Washington. The United States, of
course, has a long tradition of ideological conflict with Europe. The old
anti-Europeanism generally protested against the overwhelming power of
European states, their arrogance, and their imperialist endeavours. Today,
however, the relationship is reversed. The new anti-Europeanism is based
on
the US position of power and it protests instead against European states
failing to yield to its power and support its projects.


The most immediate issue for Washington is the European lack of support
for
the US plans for war on Iraq. And Washington's primary strategy in recent
weeks is to divide and conquer. On one hand, Defence Secretary Rumsfeld,
with his usual brazen condescension, calls those European nations who
question the US project, primarily France and Germany, the old Europe,
dismissing them as unimportant. The recent Wall Street Journal letter of
support for the US war effort, on the other hand, signed by Blair,
Berlusconi and Aznar, poses the other side of the divide.


In a broader framework, the entire project of US unilateralism, which
extends well beyond this coming war with Iraq, is itself necessarily
anti-European. The unilateralists in Washington are threatened by the idea
that Europe, or any other cluster of states, could compete with its power
on equal terms. (The rising value of the euro with respect to the dollar
contributes, of course, to the perception of two potentially equal and
competing power blocs.) Bush, Rumsfeld and their ilk will not accept the
possibility of a bi-polar world. They left that behind with the cold war.
Any threats to the uni-polar order must be dismissed or destroyed.
Washington's new anti-Europeanism is really an expression of their
unilateralist project.


Corresponding in part to the new US anti-Europeanism, there is today in
Europe and across the world a growing anti-Americanism. In particular, the
coordinated protests last weekend against the war were animated by various
kinds of anti-Americanism - and that is inevitable. The US government has
left no doubt that it is the author of this war and so protest against the
war must, inevitably, be also protest against the United States.


This anti-Americanism, however, although certainly justifiable, is a trap.
The problem is, not only does it tend to create an overly unified and
homogeneous view of the United States, obscuring the wide margins of
dissent in the nation, but also that, mirroring the new US
anti-Europeanism, it tends to reinforce the notion that our political
alternatives rest on the major nations and power blocs. It contributes to
the impression, for instance, that the leaders of Europe represent our
primary political path - the moral, multilateralist alternative to the
bellicose, unilateralist Americans. This anti-Americanism of the anti-war
movements tends to close down the horizons of our political imagination
and
limit us to a bi-polar (or worse, nationalist) view of the world.


The globalisation protest movements were far superior to the anti-war
movements in this regard. They not only recognised the complex and plural
nature of the forces that dominate capitalist globalisation today - the
dominant nation states, certainly, but also the International Monetary
Fund, the World Trade Organisation, the major corporations, and so forth -
but they imagined an alternative, democratic globalisation consisting of
plural exchanges across national and regional borders based on equality
and
freedom.


One of the great achievements of the globalisation protest movements, in
other words, has been to put an end to thinking of politics as a contest
among nations or blocs of nations. Internationalism has been reinvented as
a politics of global network connections with a global vision of possible
futures. In this context, anti-Europeanism and anti-Americanism no longer
make sense.


It is unfortunate but inevitable that much of the energies that had been
active in the globalisation protests have now at least temporarily been
redirected against the war. We need to oppose this war, but we must also
look beyond it and avoid being drawn into the trap of its narrow political
logic. While opposing the war we must maintain the expansive political
vision and open horizons that the globalisation movements have achieved.
We
can leave to Bush, Chirac, Blair, and Schröder the tired game of
anti-Europeanism and anti-Americanism.


· Michael Hardt is professor of literature at Duke University, 

FSI_WorldWealthReport2003.pdf

2003-08-14 Thread Eubulides
 http://www.us.cgey.com/DownloadLibrary/files/FSI_WorldWealthReport2003.pdf


anti-globalization movement as a basis for progressive change?

2003-08-14 Thread Devine, James
Reformist social democracy is no longer on the agenda
The anti-globalisation movement is the basis of a left alternative

Fausto Bertinotti

Monday August 11, 2003/The Guardian

The terrible events in Iraq marked the end of the post-war period - a
period marked by the memory of the horrors of the Nazi-fascist war, when
the world saw two opposing economic and social blocs pitted against each
other and social struggles led to a growth of welfare benefits and the
bargaining power of trade unions.

The liberal constitutions were born out of the victory over Nazism and
fascism. Now we are living in a new phase, in which the space for reform
has been closed. As Giorgio Ruffolo (a minister in Italy's former
centre-left government) wrote recently: Through globalisation,
capitalism has won a historical battle: it has defeated the
reform-minded left, both in Europe and America. The consequences are
there for everyone to see: reckless flexibility, extreme inequalities
and the end of safety nets.

The demise of reformism has changed both analyses and prospects,
bringing with it the difficulty of even achieving partial results that
can be woven into the social fabric and provide cohesion. This is a
problem even when there are major social and public-opinion movements.

In the past few months large numbers have taken to the streets, part of
a worldwide movement against the war. But the war was waged anyway,
without any price yet paid by the forces that wanted it. In Italy there
has been a major movement around employment issues, including
industry-wide strikes and general strikes, but the government still
managed to pass dangerous laws such as the Maroni decree (restricting
pension rights).

There has been a mass mobilisation over unfair dismissal rights. And yet
we lost it. In France, after major struggles, the Raffarin government is
carrying on its attack on the pension system. In Germany, for the first
time in 50 years, IG Metall ended a strike to extend the 35-hour working
week to the eastern regions without achieving any result whatsoever.

Capitalist globalisation contains deeply regressive elements that are
leading to a real crisis of civilisation. The only possible response is
not reformism, but rather a radical refoundation of politics as a
worldwide process and thus a reconstruction of the agency of change: a
redefinition of the working class.

The right has won all over the world because it has strategic hegemony.
In the US the Bush administration is based on military interventionism,
extreme neo-liberalism and religious fundamentalism. War is no longer a
one-off or exceptional event, it has become structural and
never-ending.

The only possibility in the face of rightwing extremism is to provide an
alternative: of peace against war and of a new model of society against
neo-liberalism. This does not mean either a detailed programme or unity
among existing political forces. Nor does it mean defending democracy as
it currently exists. Rather, it means starting from the main resource
available, which is the movement against capitalist globalisation.

The anti-globalisation movement is the first movement that represents a
break with the 20th century and its truths and myths. At present it is
the main source of politics for an alternative to the global right.
When, on February 15, 100 million people took to the streets, the New
York Times referred to it as a second world power, a power that in the
name of peace opposed those who wanted war.

It is no exaggeration to say that everything that has happened in the
past few years has had something to do with this movement. It started
from observation of the impact of neo-liberalism, going on to trace its
origins and create an anti-capitalist culture. It has resisted the
progressive destruction of democracy that has led one liberal, Ralf
Dahrendorf, to refer to this as an  ademocratic century, holding to
account those bodies - from the International Monetary Fund to the World
Bank - that have deprived people of democracy and sovereignty.

It has countered the crisis of democracy with embryonic new democratic
institutions. It has challenged the division of political labour among
trade unions, parties and cooperatives and shifted the focus of
political debate from institutions to social relations, bringing
feelings and everyday life back into the realm of politics.

It has also tackled the theme of power, in terms not of achieving and
keeping it, but of transforming, dissolving and reconstructing power
through self-government. And it has challenged the model of a party
leading the movement, proposing instead the notion of networks and links
among groups, associations, parties and newspapers.

The problem now is how to build out of the anti-globalisation movement a
real democratic power able to achieve its objectives. Its greatest
limitation seems to be the lack of a connection between the great issues
of globalisation, war and peace and the intermediate dimension of

Re: The Road to Serfdom

2003-08-14 Thread Grant Lee
Martin Hart-Landsberg wrote:


 The difficulty in export-led development certainly should be clear in
 the case of Mexico.  It succeeded over the 1990s in attracting lots of
 fdi and export growth.  But at the cost of hollowing out its domestic
 industry.  Now a bit of wage growth and rising currency and that
 foreign industry is now deserting Mexico for China.

 And China's rise which is being celebrated is coming at the expense of
 export production in Malaysia and Singapore and leading to industrial
 capital moving from South Korea.

 So, embracing this strategy is not very helpful.


Hi Marty,

The question is: helpful to whom? The case of Mexico is often raised when
this question comes up, but the overall trend in terms of the flight of
capital is from more developed countries to less developed (which, by
definition, does not include S.Korea, Malaysia or Singapore).

It's bad news for wage earners in developed and semi-developed countries.
This includes me, but I find it hard and --- I would say futile --- to
begrudge those in China, Kenya, Vanuatau, wherever.

Regards,

Grant.


Re: Reply to an Observer article by the Italian Refounded CP

2003-08-14 Thread Doug Henwood
Michael Hardt wrote:

It is unfortunate but inevitable that much of the energies that
had been active in the globalisation protests have now at least
temporarily been redirected against the war. We need to oppose this war,
but we must also look beyond it and avoid being drawn into the trap of
its narrow political logic. While opposing the war we must maintain the
expansive political vision and open horizons that the globalisation
movements have achieved. We can leave to Bush, Chirac, Blair, and
Schröder the tired game of anti-Europeanism and anti-Americanism.
This actually sounds pretty good 100 days after the end of
hostilities in Iraq. Solo American imperialism isn't the all-powerful
force that Bush (and many of his critics) imagined it to be. U.S.
prestige is at 20- or 30-year lows, the Blair government is
teetering, and the PNAC countries-to-invade list is badly in need of
revision. I'd say the Empire thesis has some life in it yet.
Doug



Re: The Road to Serfdom

2003-08-14 Thread Martin Hart-Landsberg
I wanted to also focus on another part of the Chinese experience, that
is the Chinese success in export growth.  Interesting, and not really
surprisingly given IMF pressures and debt pressures, every East Asian
country affected by the economic crisis in 97-98 is more dependent on
exports for growth than before the crisis.  China over the 90's has
become increasingly export oriented as well, with an increasing
percentage of exports being produced by foreign capital.  This
development, as export production in China moves up the technological
ladder, is putting new pressures on East Asia and even Mexico.

Those who embrace China from the right, like the IMF and World Bank,
argue that it is China's market reforms that have attracted so much FDI
and allow it to export so well.  Those who embrace China from the
progressive side say that China retains state direction capacities and
national controls and its export growth is a sign of the success of
that model.

I hear few people raising critiques of export-led growth itself as a
strategy.  The WTO and FTAA all are designed to intensify integration
and thus more trade and thus more export-orientation as well.

Should we be building more of our critique on contemporary
international developments by focusing on the dangers of export-led
growth as a strategy of development.  I was surprised when in Cuba to
find so many economists there in awe of China's export led growth and
eager to try and figure out what to do to replicate it.   In other
words, it seems that export success has become a critical measure of
success even for those on the left.

Marty

Quoting Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 I don't want to get into defending Charlie Andrews' concepts (since I
 don't agree with them completely). But the idea involves not
 profit-max but minimization of costs, subject to constraints imposed
 by the democratically-run government and the system of enterprise
 governance that Charlie describes. If I were to point to an analogy,
 it wouldn't be China but to the non-profit foundation sector in the
 US. Obviously, that sector serves those who donate money, but in
 Charlie's scheme, that sector is different.
 Jim

   -Original Message-
   From: Martin Hart-Landsberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Sat 8/9/2003 1:45 PM
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Cc:
   Subject: Re: [PEN-L] The Road to Serfdom



   Jim, the notion of competing enterprises was precisely at the
heart
 of
   the Chinese position in the early days of reform.  But how do
you
   promote competition, well you need some sort of profit
inducement.
 So,
   early on the Chinese encouraged firms to operate independently
and
   pursue profits.  But, competition also means change and
response to
   market needs.  Thus, critical to the entire process is labor
market
   flexibility, or the freedom for management to hire and fire
 workers.
   In fact, the Chinese state encouraged foreign investment at each
 stage
   of the reform process, including joint ventures pretty early in
the
   process, because it saw foreign capital as setting the basis for
   capitalist labor relations and encouraging profit maximizing in
the
   state sector.

   In short, based on my study of the Chinese experience, while
there
 were
   some in the state that just supported growing marketization for
 their
   own gain, there were many in the party that saw the need to
 overcome
   problems of imbalance and inefficiency from the Mao era and
sought
 to
   do so by encouraging competition between firms and this lead
step
 by
   step to promotion of profits, and the creation of a labor
market and
 ...

   Marty

   Quoting Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Rather than discussing market socialism, I think it would be
 worth
pen-l's while to discuss Charlie Andrews' proposal for
competing
not-for-profit enterprises (in his FROM CAPITALISM TO
EQUALITY).
Maybe Charlie could be dragooned into participating.
   
Jim
   
   
   
   
   
   
   




US war against Iraq post-mortem

2003-08-14 Thread Devine, James
From MS SLATE's on-line summary of major US newspapers:
While the NY [TIMES] reported yesterday that the fall of Baghdad was
aided by Iraqi turncoats, the LA [TIMES] cites another reason on Page
One this morning: the self-destruction of the Iraqi army. Citing
former Iraqi commanders and servicemen, the paper says the
military became increasingly fractured, thanks, in part, to
erratic orders from Saddam and his son, Qusay. During the final
weeks of the war, troops were ordered to reposition their tanks
every morning, and each order contradicted the one before. Iraqi
soldiers lacked maps, radios and even a game plan for how to
fight American troops--the latter because Saddam didn't think the
U.S. would make it very far in the war. We were crippled by a
lack of imagination, one former Iraqi commander gripes.  

Someone -- Chris Burford? -- likened Saddam to Stalin, who eventually
won due to the efforts of General Winter. But like Saddam, there was a
period when the Russian army collapsed, partly due to silly and vicious
maneuvers from above (killing generals, etc.) Unfortunately for Saddam,
his country was much smaller than the USSR, so that the enemy could
capture the capital... Of course, the US seems likely to lose the peace.



Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine



Re: The Road to Serfdom

2003-08-14 Thread Doug Henwood
Martin Hart-Landsberg wrote:

I would say the problem is on the other side, that many leftists no
longer appreciate the dangers and underlying contradictory dynamics of
export-led growth and see it as a strategy that is complementary and
consistent with stable growth and improved living and working conditions
(and here I mean internationally and not only nationally.
Hey, I fully appreciate the dangers - I just don't know what you're
posing as an alternative.
And to build a first class health industry requires that that industry
be directly response to the needs and demands of the Cuban population.
That is the only way to ensure real innovation and development.
Cuba couldn't have built this health sector without Soviet subsidies,
which are no longer an option. That's why I said a small country with
little access to external finance is rather lacking in options.
Doug


Jargon

2003-08-14 Thread Carrol Cox
I think such stale jargon as  a lot of leftists, a lot of marxists,
etc. should be eliminated. They are always offensive, and almost always
block intelligent discussion. Besides, they suggest a mind rather empty
of contents on the part of their user.

Carrol


Re: The Road to Serfdom

2003-08-14 Thread Martin Hart-Landsberg
Quoting Anders Schneiderman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Maybe I'm not reading carefully enough, but did you answered Doug's
 question about what your alternative would be?  You say what you
 would not advise them to do, but that's really not an answer.   I'm
 sure they could come up all by themselves lots of reasons why what
 their approach has serious problems, but if you can't tell them what
 they might do instead, they aren't any better off.
 
 Thanks,
 Anders


Well ...I did not interpret Doug’s question as asking me for a complete 
alternative economic program.  Perhaps I was wrong in this 
interpretation.  I thought he was posing a more modest question.  I had 
said that export led growth was a strategy that we on the left should 
not be endorsing, and to connect to my earlier posts, I was troubled by 
the way that many on the left had joined in the celebration of China 
which seems to be on the basis of its success as an export led economy.

I thought Doug was saying that since there were no simple or clear 
alternatives why bother mounting such a major critique on export led 
growth.  Related to that he asked what advice would you give workers or 
policy makers. 

In my answer I tried to suggest that the shift to export led growth was 
ongoing.  There are real policies designed to promote this strategy 
that are being proposed and implemented.  I gave the example of Korea.  
But the same could be said of China and other countries.  I think these 
policies are not good, even for the workers of the countries involved, 
much less for the overall stability of the global system and the cause 
of working class solidarity.  Thus, I would argue against those 
policies designed to move economies ever more along the lines of export-
led growth.  In short, my advice would be not to move in that direction 
and I would try and support that advice by showing the destructive 
nature and short-lived gains from export-led growth.  So, my answer is 
that there are things to say because we are not in a static situation.

As to a more positive position I already tried to offer a basic outline 
of my thinking using the example of Cuba.  I think that the ideal 
system of production is one that starts with popular needs and has 
mechanisms for translating those needs into effective demand.  And at 
the same time also has mechanisms for ensuring that the demand is 
structured mobilize domestic resources, including workers, to produce 
the goods and services that the population desires.  

Right now popular needs are not being translated into effective demand 
in most cases.  It is the middle and elite classes whose needs are 
being promoted and demand satisfied.  And with each move to export led 
growth that problem tends to become worse.  Moreover, in the case of 
most export-led countries, the domestic production is not mobilized to 
meet domestic demand, even of the elite, but rather global demand.  
Thus there is not a self-generated process of growth that takes place.  
Of course export led countries can grow for a time.  As their resources 
are mobilized to meet foreign needs the country earns money which 
allows the import of the goods and services the middle class and elites 
want.  But one critical problem for this strategy is that the benefits 
to this strategy are being greatly reduced as more and more countries 
seek to enter the process and often compete for a position in the 
transnational production network on the basis of labor and 
environmental repression and exploitation.  Even UNCTAD has shown that 
there is very little manufacturing value added being created in this 
process. 

So, how does one actualize the dynamic I promote.  As I mentioned 
before, one must start with the resources and history of the country in 
question.  In the case of Cuba I mentioned health care.  More 
generally, one has to identify, as much as possible, poles of growth 
based on the state of unfilled domestic needs and the resource 
histories of the country in question (which includes the skills of the 
population from past production and natural resources as well).  For 
example, there are many ways to ensure health care or housing or 
clothing.  A country would choose an approach that fits with its 
history.

You then try to figure out what are effective ways in translating those 
needs into demand.  And how to build as complete a domestically rooted 
production chain as possible based on resource possibilities.  That way 
as you are meeting basic needs with national resources you are 
upgrading and innovating.  

Obviously no country has the resources or skills to fully deliver all 
the goods and services that people would demand.  So, a country has to 
choose those that it can reasonably support.  And then using techniques 
that involve credit controls and trade and investment controls it needs 
to start channeling resources into those growth poles to built them 
up.  In each case, say health care, it is unlikely that a country 

Living on borrowed time in the United States, or, pay up, or we shoot you

2003-08-14 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
.  The accumulated external debt of the world's richest country, the United
States of America, is equal to $2.2 trillion. This is almost the exact
amount owed by the whole of the developing world, including India, China and
Brazil - $2.5 trillion.

.  In other words, three hundred million people in the US owe as much to the
rest of the world, as do five billion people in all of the developing
countries.

.  Or to put it differently, every American citizen owes the rest of the
world $7,333 while every citizen of all the developing countries only owes
the rest of the world $500.

.  Moreover, while developing country economies are bled dry through debt
service repayments totalling more than $300bn per year, the US must only pay
$20bn per year to service an almost equivalent amount of debt.

.  Americans have been engaged in a consumer binge, which has led to the
largest current account deficit in history, a staggering $445 billion or 4%
of US GDP. This deficit has been increasing by 50% a year in recent years,
and economists predict it will rise to $730bn by 2006.

.  Given this daily defecit of up to £2bn, plus capital outflow of $2bn, the
US in effect has to borrow $4bn from the pool of world savings every day.

.  The US deficit is financed by a) the thifty savers of East Asia, in
particular Japan, China and Singapore; but also b) by surpluses built up by
countries like France and Switzerland.

.  More disturbingly, the US deficit is being financed by the poor through
a) capital flight from poor countries and b) the forced holdings of high
levels of dollar reserves.

.  To build up reserves, poor countries are borrowing hard currency from the
US at interest rates as high as 18%; and lending this back to the US (in the
form of interest on US Treasury Bonds) at 3%.

.  Asian and African countries are forced, by the financial instability
caused by globalisation, to maintain dollar reserves, at 14% and 7% of GDP
respectively.  The US in contrast holds only about 1.3% of her GDP in
reserves.

.  The cumulative cost for developing countries of holding such high dollar
reserves may be as much as 24% of GDP over ten years; which represent a
significant drag on growth rates.

.  Inflows of capital into the US and UK: a) help to lower interest rates
and therefore borrowing costs for the people of these countries and b)
inflate the value of their currencies by about 20%. This enables rich
countries, therefore, to purchase imports from the rest of the world 20%
cheaper than they would otherwise have been able to.

.  If it were not for capital flight, at least 25 African countries would be
net creditors, not debtors.

.  Countries like Argentina find that their governments are borrowing hard
currency, only to find it promptly leaves the country (in the form of
capital flight) for Wall St., London,  Zurich or Madrid - a legitimate
process under capital liberalisation.

.  However the poor in these countries are then saddled with huge public
debts. Argentina's total external debt of $150 bn is almost exactly equal to
unrecorded capital flight of $130bn.

Source: http://www.jubilee2000uk.org/analysis/reports/J+USA7.htm



Re: who's running.

2003-08-14 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
On Thursday, August 07, 2003 8:20 PM I wrote:

 as is Michael Savage (a blatant racist and a generally idiotic
  person).

 Not to be confused in that case with Michael Joseph Savage, the first
New
 Zealand Labour Party Prime Minister in 1935.

My comment may be at least partially mistaken. In the latest issue of
Revolution, published by the New Zealand Radical Media Collective (no. 21,
August-October 2003), my friend Philip Ferguson writes:

[The New Zealand] Labour [Party] was founded in 1916 and very quickly began
campaigning for the White New Zealand immigration policy which was being
developed by the Liberal and Reform parties. Labour MPs urged unions to
adopt White New Zealand policies and, in the parliamentary debates over
the 1920 Immigration Restriction Act, Labour MP after Labour MP rose to his
feet to declare in favour of a White New Zealand and for the rigid
restriction of immigration into New Zealand by people whose skin was not
white. In those days, it was primarily Asians, especially Chinese, whom the
socialist Labour Party wanted to keep out. (p. 12-13).

This is an aspect of New Zealand Labourism which I did not study in detail,
but Philip has. I do not know the exact position which Michael Joseph Savage
took on the issue, which I could verify only by looking at the Parliamentary
Hansard. I do know that racist attitudes, policies and institutions as
regards Asian immigration existed already at least in the 1860s in New
Zealand, and were quite common. James McPherson, a New Zealand worker who,
according to Herbert O. Roth's research, wrote to the secretariat of the
First International in London to warn British workers not to come to New
Zealand, because there was a lot of unemployment and low wages in a
recession, also expressed, according to my own research, racist views about
the Chinese. This topic was also researched by a another friend of mine, Dr
Charles Sedgwick, in his Phd thesis in Sociology at the University of
Canterbury.

But what I can say in favour of MJ Savage, is that he was certainly not an
idiotic person, and cultivated Maori reformers, and that many workingclass
people sympathised with him as a sort of benign father of the people.

Jurriaan


Re: China

2003-08-14 Thread Michael Perelman
I cannot imagine that I any of my colleague could be trained well enough
to go to China and to function as such a high level in such a distant
culture.


On Sat, Aug 09, 2003 at 12:09:02PM -0700, Eubulides wrote:

 Why would you be astounded?

 Ian

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Re: The Road to Serfdom

2003-08-14 Thread Sabri Oncu
 Nice weather we're having this summer, eh?

 jks

Maybe you are having a nice weather there but it is
quite hot here in Istanbul. As I see it, we are on
our road to fascism.

I find it amazing that the Western media is so silent
about the recent developments in Turkey.

I don't find the topic of (the) market(s) unimportant
but you Anglo-Americans can do better if you pay more
attention to what is hapenning elsewhere. This may
also help this list in that maybe others from other
parts of the world would find sharing their
experiences with this otherwise Anglo-American list
worth the effort.

Best and see you when I am back,

Sabri

PS:

Here is an interesting article I just came across:

http://www.alternativesjournal.net/tausch.htm

What do my economist, and especially econometrician,
friends say about it?



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Re: China

2003-08-14 Thread michael
Marty's note is exactly the sort of a discussion I would have liked to have
seen in the earlier discussions about market socialism.  Rather than making
absolute statements or talking about examples where emotion runs ahead of
rationality, he offers an excellent case study.

One question I have about the Chinese story: how much was the initial
rhetoric about market socialism just a ruse for people who appreciated the
opening to get rich quickly? If they were sincere market socialists, then
the Chinese example would tend to corroborate my own belief that the
incentives of markets are the dominant genes of market socialism and the
socialist genes are recessive -- maybe a poor metaphor, but I mean that the
market mentality tends to crowd out socialist values under such a scheme.

Justin, from our earlier discussions, did not seem to accept my
interpretation, but I'm not sure that China vindicates me.

Robert McIntyre wrote about market socialism in Bulgaria and East Germany,
in which he tried to show that state firms to spun off entrepreneurial
businesses to experiment in order to investigate consumer tastes.  They did
not have profit incentives so there were not exactly market socialism, but
they did take advantage of potentially useful properties of markets.

One other Chinese question: as in the Russia, much of the successful
entrepreneurial (can you use that word to describe the thuggery-corruption
infested system that exists today in Russia?) drew upon the outstanding
socialist educational system.  I'm astounded when I meet Chinese academics
to seek a well-trained they are.


--

Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Chico, CA 95929
530-898-5321
fax 530-898-5901


Re: The Road to Serfdom

2003-08-14 Thread Max B. Sawicky
By this criterion we would need ruthless destruction
of many threads.

I'd also like to have an example of a thread that
went somewhere, as opposed to nowhere.

from erewhon,
mbs





Right.  If someone had something to say that has not already been said
here, fine, but the discussion the last few times went nowhere.


Fragile

2003-08-14 Thread Kenneth Campbell
Man o man...

Wild scenes inside the gold mine.

Thank god for car batteries. I never would have been able to find out
anything. (Must keep supply of batteries in house... Must keep supply of
batteries in house... Must keep supply of batteries in house...)

Seriously, though, this system is as fragile as butterfly wings. Rich
beyond belief... and helplessly weak.

People were fine, milling around, commenting on never having seen so
many stars... but the authorities were absolutely useless. If the
mobile phone networks didn't survive, and we didn't have the ability to
pool information... it would have been incredibly lonely out there.

Ken.

--
Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but
this flash is everything.
  -- Henri Poincare


Re: The Road to Serfdom

2003-08-14 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
But that is crazy. Not all markets are bad ! Marx did not argue this, nor
did any Marxist revolutionary who actually was involved in a successful
revolution. If you did argue this, then that would imply capitalism has
meant no economic progress at all in any way, which is a ridiculous and
undialectical view.

I would say that this general dogma or prejudice about markets are bad was
responsible for not a few economic disasters in the USSR and China, and it
hides what the real issue is precisely about, namely exactly which property
relations promote a just and efficient allocation of economic resources in
the given context. It is evident that markets or the market is not a
homogeneous category, but that a wide range of types of markets is possible,
and that what is decisive is the property forms, ownership relations, social
class relations and legal framework within which market transactions occur.

In this context, Marx's own argument as I understand it is essentially (1)
about the generalisation (universalisation) and overextension of markets
based on bourgeois private property relations, which acquires an objective,
independent, reified dynamic, causing a great deal of harm to human society,
as well as developing the productive forces; (2) that a dictatorship of the
proletariat would be able to experiment with a variety of property forms,
in order to discover methods of resource allocation which fit best with
social priorities - an experimentation which cannot occur in bourgeois
society except in a very marginal sense; (3) that the historic objective is
to supplant market allocation increasingly by direct methods of allocation
which are more just, effective and efficient - methods which already
anticipated in society as it exists today in many cases.

The loss of this discourse in the socialist movement divides radicalism into
two camps: sectarian socialists jabbering and blabbering about reform
versus revolution without knowing what they are talking about, and applying
wrongheaded critiques of social democracy, on the one hand; and Greenies who
want to introduce all sorts of alternatives with a deformed view of what
markets are, and how they really function in capitalist society, abstracting
from the relations of social classes in so doing.
If this situation continues, we might as well kiss socialism goodbye.

Jurriaan

- Original Message -
From: andie nachgeborenen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 4:42 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] The Road to Serfdom


 You don't understand. There are two thins Michael has
 forbidden on pen-l. One is rudeness. The other is
 discussion of market socialism. Markets are BAD, that
 is settled, leftist economists don't have to think
 about that any more -- and on pen-l, they can't talk
 about it. I am too tired and busy to talk about it
 anymore anyway. jks


Re: Fragile

2003-08-14 Thread Kenneth Campbell
I am still trying to figure out what happened. TV is out. Radio is
repeating same stuff. CNN site didn't work, last I tried it. CBC.ca is
repeating CBC Radio. Anyone outside the zone of collapse with better
data?

I wrote:

but the authorities were absolutely useless.

The height of the stupidity, in this region of the collapse, was when
some clown named Bruce Campbell (representing Ontario's Independent
Market Operators) held a 10 second press conference and said that it
may take a couple days -- and then didn't say where it would take a
couple days, why it would take a couple days, or what the hell he was
talking about. Avril Benoit, on CBC Radio 1, almost gasped when she
heard this from a reporter. As did I. Because there was nothing else to
explain the blackout or the reason for it taking a couple days. No gas
stations, no stores, no bank machines. Should one travel? Should one
store water?

Aside from being fired as communications stooge for the IMO, I also
support any effort by the Campbell Clan to summarily execute him at the
next highland games.

Ken.

--
Most men are within a finger's breadth of being mad.
  -- Diogenes the Cynic
 (perhaps aptly so-called)


a double dip?

2003-08-14 Thread Eubulides
http://www.levy.org/docs/ppb/ppb73.pdf

Public   Policy   Brief   Summary

Asset and Debt Deflation in the United States
How Far Can Equity Prices Fall?
No. 73, 2003
Philip Arestis and Elias Karakitsos


In an asset and debt deflation, the process of reducing debt by saving and
curtailing spending takes a long time, say the authors. Current imbalances
and poor prospects for spending in the private sector affect the balance
sheets of the commercial banks. The downward spiral between the banks and
the private sector induces a credit crunch that adversely affects the U.S.
economy, which is vulnerable to exogenous shocks and lacks the foundations
for a new, long-lasting business cycle.


Fragile

2003-08-14 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
If you're a big fan of Philip K. Dick, perhaps you might wish to subject
yourself to Weird Scenes Inside the Godmind, I'm not in a position to
comment on that. However, if your looking for a good, entertaining, coherent
story you'll have to look elsewhere. So if you want some weird scenes, turn
up The Doors real loud and listen, you'll likely enjoy the experience much
better.

http://www.sfsite.com/01a/gm143.htm

There's danger on the edge of town,
Ride the king's highway.
Weird scenes inside the goldmine;
ride the king's highway west, baby.

Power failure because of the heat ?
 13-08-2003 - Krista van Velzen has on behalf of the SP asked the Minister
of Economic Affairs for clarification about impending power shortages. She
wants to know among other things what measures the Minister wants to take to
avoid them. Additionally she asked whether there exists an emergency plan
and what th arrangements are there.
Since energy production was transferred to the free market, the reserve
capacity has reduced. Reserve capacity is stagnant most of the time and
commercial enterprises have an interest in investing in it only if the price
increases due to electricity shortages. The investments therefore are always
made too late. The financial interest is put ahead of the public interest by
the commercial enterprises.
Now that the generation plants because of the heat must use less cooling
water, capacity problems are becoming urgent. If there is a supplying plant
which fails, or if electricity consumption increases, the lights go out in
parts of the Nethelands.
In the American state of California, electricity supply failed for longer
periods regularly, after electricity supplies were privatised. There, too,
reserve capacity was immediately reduced. The Socialist party warned for
months that similar situations could occur in the Netherlands.
http://www.sp.nl/db/nieuws/kamernieuwspage.html/1868


unemployment crisis?

2003-08-14 Thread Devine, James
considering the source, this is pretty radical:

August 7, 2003/New York Times
Despair of the Jobless
By BOB HERBERT

The folks who put the voodoo back in economics keep telling us that
prosperity is just around the corner. For the unemployed, that would
mean more jobs. Are there more jobs just around the corner?

This alleged economic upturn is not just a jobless recovery, it's a job
loss recovery. The hemorrhaging of jobs in the aftermath of the recent
mild recession is like nothing the U.S. has seen in more than half a
century. Millions continue to look desperately for work, and millions
more have given up in despair.

The stories have been rolling in for some time about the stresses and
misfortunes that are inevitably associated with long-term joblessness:
the bankruptcies, foreclosures and evictions, the dreams deferred, the
mental difficulties - anxiety, depression - the excessive drinking and
abuse of drugs, the family violence. There are few things more miserable
than to need a job and be unable to find one.

How bad is it? The Economic Policy Institute in Washington reported last
week that since the business cycle expansion began in November 2001,
payrolls have contracted by 1 million (1.2 million in the private
sector), making this the weakest recovery in terms of employment since
the [Bureau of Labor Statistics] began tracking monthly data in 1939.

John A. Challenger, who runs the outplacement firm Challenger, Gray 
Christmas, said it is taking an average of 20 weeks for job seekers to
find employment, and many are unable to match their previous salary.
Employers have all the cards, he said. Not only are they sharpening
their salary pencils, but the screening of candidates is probably the
toughest it has ever been.

The official jobless rate, now 6.2 percent, does not come close to
reflecting how grim the employment situation really is. The official
rate refers only to those actively seeking work. It does not count the
discouraged workers, who have looked for jobs within the last 12
months but have given up because of the lack of offers. Then there are
the involuntary part-timers, who would like full-time jobs but cannot
find them. And there are people who have had to settle for jobs that pay
significantly less than jobs they once held.

When you combine the unemployed and the underemployed, you are talking
about a percentage of the work force that is in double digits. That's an
awful lot of lost purchasing power for a society that needs broad-based
wage growth among its consumers to remain economically viable. Most
Americans depend on their paychecks to get from one week to the next. If
you cut off that paycheck, everything tends to go haywire.

Right now there is no plan, no strategy for turning this employment
crisis around. There is not even a sense of urgency. At the end of July
the Bush administration sent its secretaries of commerce, labor and
treasury on a bus tour of Wisconsin and Minnesota to tell workers that
better days are coming. But they offered no real remedies, and the
president himself went on a monthlong vacation.

The simple truth is that the interests of the Bush administration's
primary constituency, corporate America, do not coincide with the
fundamental interests of workaday Americans. On the business side of
this divide, increased profits are realized by showing the door to as
many workers as possible, and squeezing the remainder to the bursting
point. Productivity (based primarily on improvements in technology) is
way up. Hiring, of course, is down. Part-time and temporary workers are
in; full-time workers with benefits are out.

And then there's the ominous trend of sending higher-skilled jobs
overseas to low-wage places like India and China, an upscale reprise of
the sweatshop phenomenon that erased so many U.S. manufacturing jobs
over the past quarter century.

Working Americans need jobs just to survive. But the Bush administration
equates the national interest with corporate interests, and in that
equation workers can only lose.

There are ways to spark the creation of good jobs on a large scale in
the U.S. (I will explore some of them in a future column.) But that
would require vision, a long-term financial investment and, most
important, a commitment at the federal level to the idea that it is
truly in the nation's interest to keep as many Americans as possible
gainfully employed.   

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company 


Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine



Re: Fragile

2003-08-14 Thread Eubulides
- Original Message -
From: Kenneth Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 I am still trying to figure out what happened. TV is out. Radio is
 repeating same stuff. CNN site didn't work, last I tried it. CBC.ca is
 repeating CBC Radio. Anyone outside the zone of collapse with better
 data?


===

Niagra Mohawk is holding a press conference as I type. Here's the phone
#'s etc. Ken and all other Canadians should be able to dial the numbers as
if they were in the US.

National Grid Press Conference Call, Syracuse NY, 10:30 p.m.

Telephone Numbers:
. U.S. 877-715-5318
. Outside U.S. 001-973-582-2720

What: National Grid's electricity delivery subsidiary in New York, Niagara
Mohawk Power Corporation, will conduct a press conference at its Syracuse
NY office regarding the power outages that affected its service area
today.
When: Thursday, August 14, 2003-10:30 p.m.
Where: Niagara Mohawk auditorium
300 Erie Blvd., West
Syracuse, NY
Participants: William Edwards, President and Chief Executive Officer,
Niagara Mohawk


Digital replay will be available for 24 hours by calling:
U.S. 877-519-4471
Outside U.S. 001-973-341-3080
Pin Number: 4124370


http://www.niagaramohawk.com/


Re: Fragile

2003-08-14 Thread Kenneth Campbell
Yeah, I botched Mr. Morrison's lyrics. Shows you how rattled I was.

There's danger on the edge of town,
Ride the king's highway.
Weird scenes inside the goldmine;
ride the king's highway west, baby.

Lemme tell ya, I was more than ready to ride the highway west, baby.

But, then, friends in Windsor were saying they had no power either. And
I don't want to keep going past that and live in California if they are
going to elect Arnold.

Thanks for the input, Jurriaan.

Ken.

--
If you give this man a ride,
Sweet Emily will die.
Riders on the storm.
  -- Jim Morrison


Germany

2003-08-14 Thread Eubulides
Return of recession dashes German hopes

Stagnant economy defies Schröder's reform efforts · Investment bank's fate
in the balance

David Gow, industrial editor
Friday August 15, 2003
The Guardian

Germany sank into recession in the first half of this year, dragging
Italy, Holland and most of the rest of mainland Europe with it, official
figures showed yesterday.

Chancellor Gerhard Schröder and his economics minister, Wolfgang Clement,
insisted that the 0.1% contraction in the second quarter after 0.2% in the
first showed the economy in stagnation rather than recession.

But economists warned that the strength of the euro, which has depressed
German exports, falling personal incomes and subdued consumer spending
would carry over into next year.

Amid forecasts of 4.75 million unemployed next year - a rise of half a
million - the federal statistics office said Germany had entered a
technical recession for the second time in two years - killing off
government forecasts of 0.75% growth this year.

Berlin's DIW institute has forecast that the economy will shrink by 0.1%
this year before growing 1.3% in 2004, helped by a larger number of
working days. Kiel's IfW sees zero growth this year followed by 1.8% in
2004.

Mr Schröder, fighting to push through planned economic and social reforms,
including ?16.9bn (£12.5bn) of early tax cuts next year, said sentiment
pointed to a recovery in the second half.

Mr Clement blamed the weak global environment, appreciation of the euro
and continuing uncertainty after the war in Iraq for Germany's plight -
along with strikes in eastern Germany's manufacturing sector earlier this
year.

However, we expect a slight recovery in the second half and the beginning
of the economic turnaround that we desperately need, he said, pointing to
low interest rates and the planned reforms.

The social democrat-led government is banking on a pick-up in business
confidence to kick-start the economy but several German companies, many of
them laying off staff, warned of depressed demand.

ThyssenKrupp, the steel group, reported third quarter pre-tax earnings
down from ?316m to ?221m, and warned that its target of ?1.5bn full year
profits next year would have to be revised if weakness in its core markets
persisted.

If the weakness continues in the coming months, particularly in our
important automobile, construction and engineering markets, we will
reconsider our plans ... The economic parameters have consistently
deteriorated, said Ekkehard Schulz, the chief executive.

Wolfgang Reitzle, the former Jaguar chief and now head of forklift truck
maker Linde, said the company was beginning to see good results after
reporting a 9.6% fall in first half profits to ?253m. But he warned that
the weak economy and strong euro were damaging prospects.

Deutsche Telekom said the weak economy - and renewed competition - cut
domestic sales 5.5% to ?6.2bn, but it beat forecasts by announcing a net
profit of ?256m in the second quarter, compared with a loss of ?2bn last
year.

The company, which has cut thousands of jobs, bucked the gloomy trend by
saying it had cut its debt to ?53bn, reaching its target six months early,
and planned to reinstate dividend payments that were suspended last year
in 2005.

E.On, Germany's largest utility, announced a 19% rise in operating profit
to ?2.68bn as it acquired a majority stake in Swedish energy company
Graninge. It already owns Powergen in the UK.

The recession in Europe's largest economy helped propel the rest of the
mainland towards prolonged contraction, held up only during the second
quarter by 0.4% growth in Greece.

The European commission predicted a rise in activity in the second half,
driven by consumer spending.


Re: Isaac Deutscher's anecdote about the readership of Marx's Capital in the ...

2003-08-14 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
Okay, fair enough, I'm playing by your rules. You are correct, Melvin is
some kind of socialist, and I should control my temper when posting.
However, I am not putting anybody in my killfile, I do not have one, except
in the sense that I block mails from certain verbally abusive individuals. I
am giving Melvin P., whoever that is, the free choice of reading exactly
what I say and responding to that, in which case I discuss it in a rational,
sensible manner, or else getting no response at all. I try my best to write
clearly and precisely, and if I fail, I try my best to correct it or I stand
corrected by somebody else. But I cannot very well discuss with somebody who
willfully misrepresents what I say, that is just a dialogue of the deaf, and
we learn nothing new from that.

Regards

Jurriaan


- Original Message -
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Isaac Deutscher's anecdote about the readership of
Marx's Capital in the ...


 You are welcome to do what you want, but this sort of personal response
 does not belong here.  Announcing that you are putting someone in your
 killfile just raises the level of hostility.


Re: Fragile

2003-08-14 Thread Kenneth Campbell
You are one helluva good man, Euble.

I appear to have missed it, or be caught between the replay and
conference. I will check it out on replay, though.

Many, many thanks.

Ken.

--
He took a face from the ancient gallery,
And he walked on down the hall.
  -- Jim Morrison


Re: Fragile

2003-08-14 Thread Paul Phillips
Ah, the vaunted efficiency of capitalism.

Paul P

Quoting Kenneth Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 I am still trying to figure out what happened. TV is out. Radio is
 repeating same stuff. CNN site didn't work, last I tried it. CBC.ca is
 repeating CBC Radio. Anyone outside the zone of collapse with better
 data?

 I wrote:

 but the authorities were absolutely useless.

 The height of the stupidity, in this region of the collapse, was when
 some clown named Bruce Campbell (representing Ontario's Independent
 Market Operators) held a 10 second press conference and said that it
 may take a couple days -- and then didn't say where it would take a
 couple days, why it would take a couple days, or what the hell he was
 talking about. Avril Benoit, on CBC Radio 1, almost gasped when she
 heard this from a reporter. As did I. Because there was nothing else to
 explain the blackout or the reason for it taking a couple days. No gas
 stations, no stores, no bank machines. Should one travel? Should one
 store water?

 Aside from being fired as communications stooge for the IMO, I also
 support any effort by the Campbell Clan to summarily execute him at the
 next highland games.

 Ken.

 --
 Most men are within a finger's breadth of being mad.
   -- Diogenes the Cynic
  (perhaps aptly so-called)





-
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/


making Frankfurters

2003-08-14 Thread Eugene Coyle




If you put a spaniard in the works do you get a frankfurter?

Gene

Jurriaan Bendien wrote:

  
a classic book that in some ways summarizes the Frankfurt school viewpoint

  
  for me is Orwell's _1984_, where there is total domination and no hope.

Well, the domination is not total, because Winston revolts and, for example,
has an affair with Julia (the description of the character Julia owes much
to Wilhelm Reich's analysis of fascism). In fact, Orwell refers to the hopes
Winston feels, in seeking to meet Julia. 


snip

  

Orwell's story contrasts with Ira Levin's (in my opinion) superior story,
which is more attuned to American imagery, called "This Perfect Day", where
Chip ends up destroying the machine, because he has understood its
functioning, and can put a spaniard in the works, which blows up the entire
system that oppresses him.
  
  
  snip
  





Re: California/whose running . . .morphing

2003-08-14 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 8/7/03 10:31:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

My democracy is a life force - praxis. I have pen and will travel. This California thing is exciting and dangerous. I will go to work because electoral democracy means contacting people and creating the next "infrastructure of battle." No matter who I end up working for, and I am not opposed to Larry Flynt, - although Arnold scares the hell out of me, my agenda is working class politics. Here is an opportunity - during an authentic political crisis, to fight to begin shaping a class program. This means food, shelter, clothing, transportation, medical care, educational issues, energy question and how one is to make "ends meet." 




Arnold S. scares me to death. I love his movies but the American people have to be told why they cannot elect a "Terminator." This is not a Marxist analysis but gut political instinct. From California to the President. I have a very very bad feeling about California. Who is Arnold going to terminate? 

None of this stuff can be found in a book. Books help shape perspective. I am probably wrong and want to be wrong but this feels like a political juncture in our history. 

God, I hope we do not look back twenty years from now and day, California was our political Stalingrad. Then again I am probably being to emotional but my freaking bags are packed and I am not going quietly into the night. 

I have a very bad feeling about this one . . . this "thing" in California. Time to pack them carpet bags boys and girls. 


Melvin P. 


Re: Martix for price discrimination

2003-08-14 Thread andie nachgeborenen
Of course there are ways around such laws. That's what
they pay me all this money for! But they are not
foolproof, and litigation is a cost (a very
substantial cost -- they do pay us lots and los of
money) ans also a risk. You might lose and get stuck
with treble damages. That would be very bad. jks

--- Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Right.  What about airline tickets?  There are ways
 around such laws.

 On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 02:58:50PM -0700, andie
 nachgeborenen wrote:
  Price discrimination is an antitrust violation --
 the
  statute is the Robinson-Patman Act -- that can
 expose
  the defendant to treble damages in a civil action,
 and
  even if you win you have to pay me, or someone
 like
  me, really godawful amounts of money to get you
 off.
  (This is in fact largely what I do for a living.)
 So,
  the citizen plaintiff is not without recourse! jks
 
 
  --- michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Anon. 2003. “Is Price Discrimination The Next
 Big
   Trend In Commerce?”
   San Jose Mercury News (7 August).
   “The Internet also gives sellers more
 information
   about consumers than
   ever before -- how many products they buy and
 when,
   perhaps even how
   many each can afford.  Eventually, two people
 might
   get the same pop-up
   ad for the same Zippo lighter, but one ad
 pitches
   them for $15 while
   another says they're $10.”
   “This vision of the Internet is the basis of a
 new
   analysis from Andrew
   Odlyzko, a former Bell Labs mathematician now at
 the
   University of
   Minnesota's Digital Technology Center.  Odlyzko
   expects price
   discrimination to become more pervasive not only
   because so much
   personal data is being collected in online
 commerce
   but also as
   technology, in the name of protecting
 copyrights,
   limits what people can
   do with online content.”
   “a few years ago, Coca-Cola Co. experimented
 with a
   vending machine that
   automatically raised prices in hot weather.”
   “the economy could suffer if technology helps
   suppliers engage in price
   discrimination against producers of important
 goods
   and services.”
  
 

http://www.dtc.umn.edu/7/8odlyzko/doc/privacy.economics.pdf
  
  
   --
  
   Michael Perelman
   Economics Department
   California State University
   michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
   Chico, CA 95929
   530-898-5321
   fax 530-898-5901
 
 
  __
  Do you Yahoo!?
  Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
 design software
  http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

 --
 Michael Perelman
 Economics Department
 California State University
 Chico, CA 95929

 Tel. 530-898-5321
 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]


__
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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Re: Background of David Kay

2003-08-14 Thread k hanly
But if someone shows u what is verifiably a tree and claims that it was
there all along the persons background is relevant to determining whether
that is true or whether he or she likely had it planted in order to convince
u that it was there. Of course a person's interests and background do not
prove that they are lying or are twisting the truth but they should surely
send up flags as to the probabilities. One can't say that if Kay discovers
something it is a plant because of his background but it certainly should
generate a degree of scepticism. If the US were  much interested in assuring
everyone that they were objective, they would not hire him but would use the
UN as a cover again. I gather they dont even feel the need to do this.

Your idea that there could be some simple uncontrovertible finding of WMD is
a highly unlikely scenario. Whatever is found may be planted or even if not
planted whatever is uncovered will be given a political spin. It is
important to understand who is spinning and how credible they may be.

Cheers, Ken Hanly

 One does not need to know anything whatever about his
 background -- EVEN IF it has been as the world's
 comparatively longest record-holder for truth telling, as
 attested to by the proverbial one-hundred (assuming:
 not child-molesting) Bishops -- to have the good sense
 to reconize that avowed optimism (a purported report
 merely about one's mental state) does not tell anyone
 anything of substance about whether, at some unstated
 and presently unknown and also unknowable future time,
 in some not described place, he will (or won't) find even
 a not-controversially described widget (e.g., a tree), nor
 would correspondingly similar conclusory statements of
 not-disclosed evidence of a cover-up communicate
 anything whatever of substance about whether there
 has (or has not) been a cover-up.

 If, conversely, an otherwise past-lying S.O.B. or (overt
 or covert) C.I.A. agent, or both, shows me what
 verifiably is a tree -- or, for that matter, what can be
 reasonably described, in fact, to be weapons of mass
 destruction -- those objects would be no less so
 because of his/her background is of the sort this
 thread's initiator (and, apparently, Mr. Devine) find
 interesting as, meanwhile, Mr. Kay's history (including
 what k hanly implied has not been announced) has been
 very widely reported, including on . . . [gasp!] . . . FOX-
 TV.


Re: Fragile

2003-08-14 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
If I like Arnold in particular fictional movies, that doesn't mean
automatically I support him as a non-fiction political actor. A fictional
movie is essentially a fantasy. But the governorship of California is not a
fantasy, it is a real political responsibility for real people living real
lives.

If I was a Stalinist, or a neo-fascist, or a racist-Hitlerite type of
neanderthal Marxist, or a fundamentalist christian, then of course I would
argue that either you support Arnold as movie star, person and political
candidate, or you oppose Arnold as movie star, person and political
candidate, in black-and-white, yes-or-no terms. But I like SOME movies by
Arnold and when I consider Arnold as a political candidate for the
Governorship of California, I don't give a shit about his moviestar
credentials, I look at what he has to offer as a politician, his political
experience, his friends, his policies, his supporters and so on, and I look
at what workingclass Californian people want, and whether Arnold can really
deliver on that.

Arnold might attract votes because of the magic of the flesh, or the
magic of the movies, but people with any brains look beyond magic at real
policies, real political interests, real consequences for their own lives
and communities. Personally I would be more inclined to vote for Peter
Camejo or somebody like that (I do not know whether there is a Socialist
Party in California). But you would never catch me saying that Arnold is an
idiot or something like that, he might be a very likeable person, but that
is neither here nor there, except if I met him personally - in political
affairs, it is what he stands for and what he politically represents, that
counts.

In Britain, there's a movie star parliamentarian for New Labour, I just
forgot her name for a moment. I liked some of her movies, but that doesn't
mean that I thereby necessarily support her political views or actions.
Similarly, New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark fancies herself as a bit
of an artist. But her artistic merits ought to be evaluated quite separately
from her political behaviour, except where art is pressed into the service
of politics, in which case I look at what political interests or
constituency the art represents, and the truth-content of the art.

Just because you have a lot of muscle, or just because you have a lot of
brains, or a lot of beauty, doesn't mean that you will make a good
politician. A good politician accurately represents the immediate and
long-term interests of his constituency, and doesn't bullshit about that,
but explains it in a principled manner, and is prepared to do whatever it
takes to honour his commitment. This is not a simply question of
intelligence, strength and beauty, but a question of loyalty to your own
constituency and capacity for objectivity. A lack of objectivity means that
the politician claims to represent something, but really represents
something else. Now, politics is a complex game full of contradictory
impulses, but we ought to expect that a politician delivers at least on the
basics I have sketched, even if human error occurs.

Jurriaan


Re: making Frankfurters

2003-08-14 Thread Jurriaan Bendien



It depends how far away the spaniard is from the 
Frankfurter.

J.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Eugene 
  Coyle 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 5:46 
  AM
  Subject: [PEN-L] making 
Frankfurters
  If you put a spaniard in the works do you get a 
  frankfurter?GeneJurriaan Bendien wrote:
  
a classic book that in some ways summarizes the Frankfurt school viewpoint
for me is Orwell's _1984_, where there is total domination and no hope.

Well, the domination is not total, because Winston revolts and, for example,
has an affair with Julia (the description of the character Julia owes much
to Wilhelm Reich's analysis of fascism). In fact, Orwell refers to the hopes
Winston feels, in seeking to meet Julia. snip
  
Orwell's story contrasts with Ira Levin's (in my opinion) superior story,
which is more attuned to American imagery, called "This Perfect Day", where
Chip ends up destroying the machine, because he has understood its
functioning, and can put a spaniard in the works, which blows up the entire
system that oppresses him.
  snip
  


yet more socializing of costs at the DoD

2003-08-14 Thread Eubulides
[Federal Register: August 7, 2003 (Volume 68, Number 152)]
[Rules and Regulations]
[Page 47149-47200]
From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:fr07au03-10]


[[Page 47149]]

---

Part II





Department of Defense





---



32 CFR Part 21, et al.



DoD Grant and Agreement Regulations; Final Rule


[[Page 47150]]


---

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE

Office of the Secretary

32 CFR Parts 21, 22, 32, 34, and 37

RIN 0790-AG87


DoD Grant and Agreement Regulations

AGENCY: Office of the Secretary, DoD.

ACTION: Final rule.

---

SUMMARY: The Department of Defense (DoD) is adding a new part to the
DoD Grant and Agreement Regulations (DoDGARs) to incorporate policies
and procedures for the award and administration of technology
investment agreements (TIAs). TIAs are a relatively new class of
assistance instruments. DoD Components use TIAs to support or stimulate
defense research projects involving for-profit firms, especially
commercial firms that do business primarily in the commercial
marketplace. The new part therefore gives DoD agreements officers
greater flexibility to negotiate award provisions in areas that can
present barriers to those commercial firms (e.g., intellectual
property, audits, and cost principles). The DoD also is revising
several additional parts of the DoDGARs to conform them with the new
part.

DATES: These final rules are effective on September 8, 2003.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Mark Herbst, (703) 696-0372.

SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION:
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2003/03-18927.htm
[for full announcement]


Report on Venezuelan Labour (8 August 2003)

2003-08-14 Thread michael a. lebowitz

Dear Friends,
I hope you
find the following note of interest and will forward it to relevant lists
and individuals.
in
solidarity,
michael

Report on Venezuelan Labour: the Process Continues

Michael A. Lebowitz
8 August 2003


Nationalise
the Banks! Take over enterprises that have shutdown and run them instead
by workers! Refuse to pay the external debt and use the funds to create
jobs! Reduce the workweek to 36 hours! Create new enterprises under
workers’ control!--- These were some of the demands that emerged from the
action programme workshop, which were enthusiastically endorsed by
delegates to the first National Congress of the National Union of Workers
(UNT) of Venezuela on August 1-2.
After
years of support for neo-liberalism by the Accion Democratica-dominated
Confederation of Venezuelan Workers (CTV) culminated in that
organisation’s involvement in the (quickly-overturned) coup of April 2002
against President Hugo Chavez and in the CTV’s subsequent support for the
business federation (Fedecamaras) in the ‘general lock-out’ of last
December-January, UNT (‘UNETE’) was founded in April to provide a voice
and instrument for working people. This first Congress brought together
more than 1300 registered participants representing over 120 unions and
25 regional federations to determine the general outlines of the new
federation--- its internal statutes, election mechanisms, code of ethics,
basic principles and action programme.
The
greatest agreement and passion was over the principles and the action
plan. From the workshop on principles came the clear call for the
transformation of ‘capitalist society into a self-managing society’, for
a ‘new model of anti-capitalist and autonomous development that
emancipates human beings from class exploitation, oppression,
discrimination and exclusion'. This declaration for an autonomous,
democratic, solidaristic and internationalist, classist, independent,
unitary (representing the whole working class) movement with equality for
men and women was cheered by all those present at the plenary session. As
occurred at a number of points, the chant emerged--- ‘the working class
united will never be defeated'!
The
meaning of many of these principles became clear in the points endorsed
for the programme of action. While the participants were unequivocal in
their support for many initiatives of the Chavez government (e.g. the
literacy programme, the introduction of Cuban doctors into poor
neighbourhoods, housing construction, the law suspending lay-offs and the
rejection of FTAA), their positions on nationalising the banks, the
external debt, and work hours among other aspects went far beyond the
current positions of the government. Further, UNT’s independence was
demonstrated by its strong positions against specific government
ministries--- demanding that inspectors of work who are anti-worker be
removed by the Ministry of Labour and criticising the Minister of Health
and calling for the declaration of a national emergency in health--- and
in its call for reforms within the state itself (to ‘create the
revolution within the revolution’). 
Where
there was less agreement, however, was with respect to internal statutes
and electoral procedures. For some, the Statutes were far too like those
of the CTV, an organisation infamous for its lack of internal democracy
and its corruption. Here, where there was much potential for division
over such matters as recall procedures, term limits, asset declarations,
proportional representation, distribution of dues etc, an important
decision was made--- go back to the base, i.e., send this back to the
individual unions for full discussion of the issues. The same decision
was made in relation to decisions about the 76 articles of electoral
regulations (even though only 6 were questioned)--- back to the base.
Since these were matters critical in providing the basis for, among other
things, the finance to carry out the struggle, it was decided that a
National Assembly of UNT would be convened within two months to resolve
these matters. The first national congress of UNT concluded with a
declaration condemning the US invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq and its
Plan Colombia. ‘Hasta la Victoria Siempre’, Che’s motto, could be heard
here--- as at other points.
The Unete
congress was an important step in turning away from what the Minister of
Labour Maria Cristina Iglesias has called
‘the evil axis’ of Fedecamaras and CTV. But, it was not a complete
success. For one, in the days before the Congress, UNT’s temporary 21
member steering committee (or portions of it) decided that the Unitary
Confederation of Workers (CUTV), an affiliate of the World Federation of
Trade Unions, which had been involved in the creation of UNT from the
outset, could not integrate with its regional organisations; as a result,
many of its militants stayed away from this congress. Further, a
conspicuous absence was that of Ramon Machuca, 

Re: What is to be done in Argentina

2003-08-14 Thread Devine, James
All Argentina needs is a few latter-day Lenins who can write a What is to be Done 
updated for the current
struggle.

do you think that writing a book can have that big an effect?

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine



The US/China Axis

2003-08-14 Thread Michael Pollak
[This headline is a little more alarmist than the article.  Depending on
timing, this delay mechanism could turn out to be a good thing, delaying
the deflationary shock to China until it could bear the full weight of
adjustment the US needs.  Although of course it also go the other way; the
delay could makes things worse.]

[But what's interesting to me is that this way of conceiving the process
suggests both the mechanism by which US current account adjustment is
being put off and a time limit to it.  It suggests that it was possible to
put off US current account adjustment for as long as China and Japan were
in deflation.  Now China at least has reached the point where it's not.
When it reaches a reasonable inflation rate, it will stop propping up its
currency by buying US bonds and accept appreciation, and the US current
account deficit rachet down a major notch.  And a similar time delay
mechanism would operate vis a vis Japan.  The European component has
already kicked in, but is a lesser contributor to adjustment because of
the lesser trade.]

Financial Times; Jul 31, 2003

COMMENT: The Fed is in a dangerous game with China

By Chen Zhao

The Federal Reserve is taking no half measures in its efforts to stimulate
economic recovery in the US. To ward off the spectre of deflation, it is
prepared to generate inflation and reflate the asset bubble.

China is a silent but active partner in the Fed's pump-priming. It would
not be possible for US Treasury bond yields to be at current levels were
China not a willing and able supplier of savings to the US. Combined
annual purchases of Treasury securities from China and Hong Kong have
reached $290bn - more than those by any other creditor nation.  Both China
and the US are having fun at this game. The flow of Chinese savings has
enabled Americans to borrow more and spend more. Long- term bond yields
are still very low, in spite of the recent bond market shake-out. The
refinancing boom continues. The collapse in borrowing costs is reviving
capital spending.

China is glad to see Americans going on another shopping spree. Its
factories are cranking up production at an unprecedented pace and capacity
is tightening. China's exports to the US jumped 35 per cent in the first
quarter compared with the first quarter of last year and the trend is
accelerating. The US's bilateral trade deficit with China has reached
$110bn, bigger than with any other country.

In effect, China is trading goods for US paper. The rapid accumulation of
Chinese reserves means the Chinese are buying dollars to keep their own
currency steady. This has allowed US interest rates to remain low, which
in turn has encouraged American consumers to buy more Chinese goods.

This game of trading goods for paper creates a hyper-stimulative
environment for both countries' economies - which authorities on both
sides of the Pacific want. The Chinese and US currencies are falling
against the euro, money supply in both economies is going up and interest
rates are low. All of these are powerful stimulants for economic growth
and share prices.

So far there are no signs that the Chinese are about to change course.
Despite intensifying calls to revalue the currency, the authorities
recently increased the value added tax rebate for exporters. The rebate
amounts to a de facto devaluation aimed at providing pre-emptive
protection against a growing number of anti-dumping investigations of
Chinese exports. This action suggests that it is naive to think the
central bank will soon allow the currency to float upwards.

Nevertheless, trading goods for paper works only up to a point. While the
game serves the purposes of Chinese and US policymakers alike, it also
creates enormous economic and financial distortions that are both
self-limiting and self-defeating.

With a collapse in interest rates fuelling consumer spending, it is
conceivable that the US current account deficit will explode upwards.
There is no magic number the current account deficit must reach to signal
an impending crisis - but there has never been a nation that has been able
to increase its reliance on foreign savings without eventually hitting a
brick wall.

In the meantime, China will accumulate inflationary pressure. Its economy
has been booming for some time and foreign exchange intervention has
further fuelled money and credit expansion. China has already climbed out
of deflation, with its consumer price index rising at an annualised rate
of 1 per cent. Granted, this is a very low inflation rate.  Still, with
soaring money supply, surging exports, expanding reserves, strengthening
consumer spending and fast growth in property investment, inflation will
keep rising.

When will the party come to an end? When the Chinese have had enough. That
will happen when inflation in China approaches 3-4 per cent - which it
could do within the next six months or so. At that point, the central bank
will be forced to revalue the currency.

Another potentially 

Re: Green

2003-08-14 Thread Devine, James
I wrote: I think it's useful to avoid mushing concepts together that way.

Ken: I don't see that as mushing. I see it as evolving language.

I don't think we should go with the linguistic flow. Instead, we should try to use 
language as clearly as possible (by being clear about our own definitions, for 
ourselves and for others). (NB: I am not saying that there exists a single 
hard-and-fast definition that's true for any given word.) 

god, I wish I were. Los Angeles and mediocre Catholic academia
are not good places for activism. Nor do the responsibilities
of fatherhood encourage activism (at least with my kid).

Brother, I know. I meant no offense.

none was taken.

Jim



Re: Fragile

2003-08-14 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
Fame is a fickle food
Upon a shifting plate,
Whose table once a Guest, but not
The second time, is set.
Whose crumbs the crows inspect,
And with ironic caw
Flap past it to the Farmer's corn;
Men eat of it and die.

- Emily Dickinson

- Original Message -
From: Kenneth Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 5:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Fragile


 Yeah, I botched Mr. Morrison's lyrics. Shows you how rattled I was.

 There's danger on the edge of town,
 Ride the king's highway.
 Weird scenes inside the goldmine;
 ride the king's highway west, baby.

 Lemme tell ya, I was more than ready to ride the highway west, baby.

 But, then, friends in Windsor were saying they had no power either. And
 I don't want to keep going past that and live in California if they are
 going to elect Arnold.

 Thanks for the input, Jurriaan.

 Ken.

 --
 If you give this man a ride,
 Sweet Emily will die.
 Riders on the storm.
   -- Jim Morrison




Re: What is to be done in Argentina

2003-08-14 Thread Louis Proyect
Doug Henwood wrote:
When I interviewed Naomi Klein, who spent most of the past year in
Argentina, she said that there were so many sectarian Trot parties
trying to tell the spontaneous mass assemblies what to do that they
turned lots of people off from politics. Instead of following the
vanguard into revolution, the masses went home.
Yeah, but Naomi Klein has little to offer Argentina herself. In a Nation 
Magazine article, she criticizes sectarian Trotskyist formations but she 
also says that autonomism is a problem as well:

Rather than challenge sectarian efforts at co-optation head-on, many 
of the assemblies and unemployed unions turned inward and declared 
themselves autonomous. While the parties' plans verged on scripture, 
some autonomists turned not having a plan into its own religion: So wary 
were they of co-optation any proposal to move from protest to policy was 
immediately suspect.

full: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030526s=klein

I think that Argentina does need a socialist revolution. It is too bad 
that this is not part of her vocabulary. In the final analysis, the 
global justice movement not only does not address the question of 
state power in a particular country, it is ideologically hostile to that 
sort of project.

I would recommend the astute James Petras for a balance sheet on Argentina:

While the unemployed workers movement initially proved promising in 
pressuring for jobs and funding for local projects, it soon confronted a 
series of serious problems. First the movement appealed to only a 
fraction of the unemployed workers  less than 10% of the 4 million. 
Secondly while the MTDs were quite militant, their demands continued to 
focus on the 150 peso a month public works contracts  there was little 
political depth or political-class consciousness beyond the leaders and 
their immediate followers. The assumption of many of the 
leftist-anarchist and Marxists was that the crises itself would 
radicalize the workers, or that the radical tactics of street 
blockages would automatically create a radical outlook. Particularly 
harmful in this regard were a small group of university students who 
propagated theories of spontaneous transformations based on not 
seeking political or state power but retaining local allegiances around 
small scale projects. Their guru, a British professor devoid of any 
experience with Argentine popular movements, provided an intellectual 
gloss to the practices of his local student followers. In practice, the 
deep structural problems persisted  and the new Duhalde government soon 
initiated a major effort to pacify the rebellious townships of 
unemployed workers, providing over 2 million job contracts for 6 
months, distributed by his loyal point men and women in the barrios. 
This move undercut the drawing power of the radical leaders of the MTD 
to extend their organizations and provided the Peronist party the 
organizational links to the poor and unemployed for future elections, 
particularly since the movement leaders rejected electoral politics and 
neglected any sort of political education. Over time most of the initial 
followers of the anarchist, spontaneist and no-power grouplets 
abandoned them for the Peronist-controlled unemployment committees.

full: http://www.rebelion.org/petras/english/030604petras.pdf

--

The Marxism list: www.marxmail.org



FOMC minutes

2003-08-14 Thread Eubulides
http://www.federalreserve.gov/fomc/minutes/20030625.htm

Minutes of the Federal Open Market Committee
June 24-25, 2003
A meeting of the Federal Open Market Committee was held in the offices of
the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in Washington, D.C.,
starting on Tuesday, June 24, 2003, at 2:30 p.m. and continuing on
Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 9:00 a.m.


==


Fed Considered Bigger Rate Cut In Late June
But Impact Was Feared

By John M. Berry
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 15, 2003; Page E01


Some Federal Reserve officials wanted to lower a key short-term interest
rate by half a percentage point when they met in late June because of
continued economic weakness and concerns about falling inflation,
according to minutes of the meeting released yesterday. But the central
bank's policymaking group chose to cut the rate by a quarter-point
instead, in part because of concerns that the larger cut would send the
wrong message about their view of the economy and their intentions for
future action.

Many financial market participants were disappointed by the Fed's decision
because they had come to expect a half-point cut in the central bank's
target for overnight rates because of the public statements made before
the meeting by a number of Fed officials.

The degree of disagreement among the officials at the meeting was unusual.
Not only were members of the Federal Open Market Committee, the central
bank's top policymaking group, divided over the size of the cut, one
member wanted no cut at all, according to minutes.

Given the strong desire among Fed policymakers for consensus, only one
official, Robert T. Parry, president of the San Francisco Federal Reserve
Bank, voted to dissent, the minutes show. Parry wanted the larger cut as
insurance against continued sluggishness in economic activity and further
declines in inflation measures to undesirably low rates, the minutes
said.

The minutes do not otherwise identify by name which officials argued for
which actions. But they do say that the committee member who would have
preferred no cut agreed to go along with a quarter-point reduction.

The committee's action at the June meeting reduced the Fed's already
extremely low 1.25 percent target to 1 percent, and the group left it
unchanged when they met again Tuesday. The officials were considering a
half-point cut in June because there was still no solid evidence then that
relatively weak U.S. economic growth was picking up, and there was concern
that the nation's low inflation rate could fall further than they thought
was safe.

Some commented that a good case could be made for a half-percentage point
easing, the minutes said.

But the committee members arguing for the smaller reduction felt that at
1.25 percent the target was already so low that it was helping stimulate
economic activity, and some in the group said they saw some preliminary
signs of better growth. That group also noted that large federal income
tax cuts enacted earlier in the year were to become effective in July and
would further stimulate the economy.

Some of those arguing for the quarter-point cut also felt that the larger
reduction might be misinterpreted by the market in at least two ways.
First, a half-point cut might be seen as an indication of more concern
among policymakers about the economic outlook than was in fact the case,
the minutes said. In addition, it could have been taken as a signal that
the committee would not cut rates again anytime soon, a judgment that the
group was not ready to make, the minutes added.

As Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan disclosed in congressional
testimony last month, there was also an extended discussion of steps the
Fed could take to stimulate the economy even if the target for overnight
rates was at or close to zero. Such a situation, though regarded as a
remote possibility, could arise if the inflation rate fell to zero, or if
broad measures of prices of goods and services began to decline, a
condition known as deflation.

Lowering the overnight rate target close to zero could have adverse
repercussions on the functioning of some sectors of the money market, but
the committee agreed that would not stop them from reducing rates to that
point if economic conditions required it, the minutes said. There was no
description of such adverse repercussions, but Greenspan has
acknowledged that money market mutual funds might have to shut down if
overnight rates were close to zero.

The committee reached no decision on what additional steps might be taken
to stimulate the economy in such circumstances, but they discussed a
number of options that could be used, the minutes said. Again, no details
were provided, but Greenspan and several other officials have said such
actions might include purchasing longer-term government securities from
the public to pump more money into the banking system.

One reason bond prices have fallen and longer-term 

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