[PEN-L:3120] Small Warning re: Hamilton, Ontario `Days of Action'
Just a note to people who're coming to Hamilton tomorrow (Friday), Saturday and Sunday (hopefully!?) to `welcome' the Tory (ruling Progressive-Conservative Party in Ontario) Policy Convention: for a number of days skinheads have been seen scouting the situation in downtown Hamilton. We were even followed by one of the little shits tonight as we `toured' the Hamilton Convention Center site. Be forewarned of their possible provocations as Der Fuhrer Mike Harris' Sturm Troopers... See y'all there!! +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |JANUARY 25: CORPORATE TAX FREEDOM DAY IN CANADA -- MAKE THE RICH PAY| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:2719] Progressive Municipal Models
I'm not on these Lists right now, so any replies have to be to me personally. Where can I find information (preferably on the Internet) regarding models for municipalities or regional governments that is from a people's grassroots POV? Surely someone must have given a lot of thought to this -- no sense trying to reinvent the wheel. Thanx. +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |JANUARY 25: CORPORATE TAX FREEDOM DAY IN CANADA -- MAKE THE RICH PAY| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:2488] Mumia Updates
I have 2 more Mumia messages from the ATS-L -- one is a collection of his essays, (apparently). Mucho bytes. Hopefully everyone has MIME who requests it, as it's the easiest way for me to send it... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |JANUARY 25: CORPORATE TAX FREEDOM DAY IN CANADA -- MAKE THE RICH PAY| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:2285] Windows MIME program -- does it all...
There seems to be a LOT of confusion and clutzing around with MIME these daze. And since it's only going to become MORE important, let me bring to your attention something I found in PC WORLD magazine for January `96 pg. 288 -- a Windows shareware MIME program that apparently does it *ALL*. I found it at the site: http://tinker.winsite.com/info/pc/win3/desktop/zrfw751.zip/index.html -- though the magazine mentions version 6.4 and a site at: http://home.aol.com/Jared10 Who knows what even _better_ bells and whistles version 7.51 has? The file_id.diz file sez that it does AVI, WAV, etc. -- so that you all should be able to get around sending each other full motion video of each other's lectures..! ;> My thoughts on a standing committee on `Technology and the Internet' for the Marxism List I'll bring up later... :> +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:2283] Re: Something completely different
On Fri, 15 Dec 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Louis N Proyect wrote: > > > Louis: I regard university professors as a petty-bourgeois layer that is > > coming under the assault from the ruling-class. > "Petty bourgeois", like "fascism", is a word that is often used > imprecisely by "Marxists" who should know better -- Like Louis. The petit > bourgeois, in Marx's sense, represents a social layer and class in > between the capitalist class and the working class and includes small > shopkeepers and farmers. The distinguishing characteristic of the > petty-bourgeois, such as a farmer, is that these individuals own their > own means of production and do not therefore have to alienate their labor > to capitalists in exchange for a wage. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that many/most professors (and like `professionals') have a petit-bourgeois *sensibility* or *outlook*, while technically being part of the workingclass. False consciousness and all that... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:2201] Re: Internet mailing lists: what are they?
On Thu, 14 Dec 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > To so-called activists on the marxism list often display an astonishing > lack of political experience and understanding. It is *very* hard for me, > indeed, to believe that most of the list members who tout activism have > any major political experiences *or* have *any* understanding of Marxism. Gee. Where's all that `pedagogical skill' academics are so famous for? Just couldn't see it as the true challenge it was, eh? > The hostility to "academics" is just *prejudice* based on a > misunderstanding of the *actual* conditions that most academics work > under. I will not expand upon this point here since I have already done > so at length on the marxism list over the months (see marxism archives for > "College Professors and the Working Class"). Let me just make _my_ position clear here, as I suspect Levy has people like me in mind when he rants the above: what _I_ personally object to as `academic', used pejoratively here, is the _preference_ to engage in intellectual pursuits online, etc., *to the exclusion of activism*. Those `academics' who ARE engaged in activism are _not_ the target here! So now we have TWO sets of academics here. Frankly, many of the huffier ones have been, I suspect, the ones who INDEED are NOT activists; they try to cover for themselves by deflecting the issues -- a common ploy... It is THESE academics who are `fair game' on the Marxism List -- as I (for one) simply _cannot_ comprehend that an intellectual's thought-work can be taken at all seriously, if he is not CONSTANTLY testing it AGAINST REALITY. The only way to do this is `in the streets' (so to speak...) My intellectual experience on the Marxism List -- and here on PEN-L, for that matter -- leads me to believe that one of the _main_ reasons for the present confusions in marxism -- not least the defections -- is the COMPLETE LACK OF GROUNDING OF THEORY IN REALITY of many of these `academics''work . The many different `flavors' of marxism/post modernism/whatever are, AFAIC, a symptom (in part) of this `mental play' -- un-constrained by the brutal realities of everyday life... What "rankles" many who have > left the marxism list -- including many experienced activists and > intellectuals/activists -- includes: > > (1) the *constant* flow of ad hominum attacks; Sadly true -- but where are _they_, advancing understanding between antagonists?? Some have stayed and _are_ doing this. I do not respect those who have bailed-out at the first (or second) sight of squabbling... > (2) the *purposeful* distortion of the positions of others (including > flagrant *lies*); > > (3) *daily* does of offensive sexist and homophobic language; Gee. I guess The Revolution's gonna come as a real SHOCK to you, eh? :> > (4) "spam"; What _I'm_ most `guilty' of, I suppose (though Levy uses the word inaccurately. What else is he not clear on?) > (5) the reduction of Marxism into simplistic and child-like *dogmas*; > > (6) the *vicious* attack on "outsiders" (e.g. "SJ); As Proyect (and I on occasion) has pointed out, people like Levy seem to have trouble grasping how _special_ the Marxism List (and PEN-L) is -- in SPITE of the above... > (7) extreme and compulsive *obnoxiousness* (a la Howard Stern); > > (8) the *extreme pretentiousness* of some "activists"; > > (9) the idealistic, utopian and romanticised vision that some have about > that list; > > (10) the *sectarian* politics and style of discourse > ; > (10) the lack of *SERIOUS AND HONEST* dialogue. The above I will not take seriously... While much of what Levy says is true *in part*, he seems to be as guilty as anybody of stretching the facts of the matter here. A big part of any `moribundity' on the Marxism List is on account of the grandstanding huffiness of those who have left the List and not seen the tough times thru, their claiming its having `degenerated' (from a more `high-brow' *arguably* academic List, which it apparently was originally). Leave because the volume is too high -- don't make excuses for it, though. I'll have more to say on all this later -- just hope this gets thru, as I'm no longer on PEN-L or Marxism List at the moment! The volume is too high for me right now... :> +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:2056] Re: (c)lass position of professors
On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Terrence Mc Donough wrote: > There may well be some confusion here, but there is more likely a > difference over the definition of basic Marxian categories. In its > basic sense, to be productive, labor must be productive of surplus > value. But this implies that several prior conditions have also been > met. To have value that which is produced (yes - good or service, > tangible or intangible) must first have use value. To be > reproductive of capitalist relations of production is insufficient to > meet this criterion. Secondly, it must be a commodity, that is > produced for sale on a market. Much of what is produced in > universities doesn't meet one or both of these conditions. > Thirdly there must be a relationship > of exploitation based on the extraction of surplus value. The > existence of wage labor is only half of this relation. There must > also be capitalists making profit. The existence of a board of > directors/trustees is insufficient to meet this criterion precisely > because "internal political questions about the way orders are given > and received has no direct implication for the question of > exploitation." Thanx for clearing up just a bit of the fog... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:2009] Re: Something completely different
On Thu, 14 Dec 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Andrew Kliman here, responding to Jim Jaszewski's ad hominem response to my > post re why I left the Marxism list. If that's your idea of what ad hominem is, then no wonder people like you have difficulty reaching agreement with people like me... > But the rest exhibits a persistent tendency of some on the Marxism list--the > tendency to divert the discussion. Jim thinks that's okay, but instead of > reproducing my comments in context, he snips bits and pieces in order to > make it sound like (a) I only care about my own needs, (b) I somehow > implied that the list could not go on without me, and (c) I was comparing > my talents and achievements to Marx's. Ya. Sure. I took you out of context -- more likely I brought to the fore your unconscious motivations. > This is bullshit. My whole post, and the post as a whole, was meant to > criticize the charges that people who've left the Marxism list have done > so (implicitly: that ALL have done so) because they are ivory-tower > academics who don't care about real issues of concern to real people, and > especially that one is not "much of a Marxist" if s/he leaves the list > because of its "grittiness and informality." My point about Marx is that > his work required serious thought, patience, concentration, and discipline, > not the continual "gritty" and "informal" diversions that characterize the > Marxism list. By these criteria, Marx was not much of a Marxist, because > he sat in the library instead of being active in the mid-1880s equivalent > of the Marxism list--spending all day and night at the pub with the blokes > in a freewheeling inebriated banter. You really don't get it, do you?? The Marxism List is about REAL LIFE. Scholarship is a big part of it, but not *ALL* of it. If that peeves some academics, then so be it... > And I've got no doubt that there exist enough types like this that the Marxism > list will continue and thrive. For those who have the time to wade through > all the nonsense, and let their discussions get sidetracked by others so > that development of ideas is made all the harder, I'm sure there will > continue to be gems in the Marxism list among all the junk, and I'm glad that > the list exists for them. As for the others on the list, let the dead > bury the dead. Again: you are just another one who cannot see that they are really complaining about List *VOLUME*... Do some self-criticism, bub. +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1977] Re: Something completely different
On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Tom Walker wrote: > Lord, forgive us our montages. As we forgive those who montage upon us. I > couldn't help but reframe Louis and Jim's "us prols against the perfessers" > thread in the context of the high falutin' casuistry of "identity politics. > So I've sampled some of Jim Jaszewski's remarks and follow them with Terry > McDonough's ironic commentary on the capriciousness of the identitarians. > IMHO, it shows how easy it is to step over the line from class analysis to > oppression fetishism. Montages are all about taking things out of context, no (and `creating' another)? Yours was a good example -- not only of that, but of what I'm talking about AFAIC... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1965] Re: Something completely different
On Thu, 14 Dec 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Of course, we have no way of knowing what Marx would have felt about the > Marxism list. Since Jim has offered his speculation, though, I will offer > mine. I believe that Marx would have said something similar to what Joan > Robinson said when she heard that Milton Friedman won the Nobel > (paraphrase): "I am rolling over in my grave." Note that Robinson said > that while she was still _alive_! What you say. I'm going by my grasp of who Marx the Man really was: not a quitter. > Some (I believe mistakingly) view the "struggle" on the Marxism list as > one between "academics" and "activists." I do not believe that the > Marxism archives will support this interpretation. I view the "struggle" > as one between those who take politics -- theory and praxis -- seriously > and those who do _not_. Often amounts to the same thing AFAIC -- but who's saying that it's all as black and white as you portray it..? > The idea suggested the other day that the Marxism list is the forum > through which international activists are discussing a potential new > "International" is ... laughable. The Marxism list, as presently > constituted, is a mirror of all the sectarian politics that have > discredited Marxists in the past. Only a total misreading of the List would lead someone to say this -- and it just goes to show how laffable is much of what passes for academic `thought' in Marxademia... > Must it be so? No. I still believe that the Marxism list has potential -- > for which the moderators have fought valiantly (and been consistently > flamed for their efforts). When "Marxists" on that list (I have > deliberately chosen to place that word in quotes) take politics seriously > again and realize that Marxism is something more than an opportunity for > one-liners and flaming, then the "academics" may return in greater numbers. Like I said; I, for one, reject your characterization -- and I'll bet that many List members are waiting with bated breath for this Return from the Mount -- _not_. (`Atlas Shrugged' comes to mind...) I'll say it again: the Marxism List is uneven, but this reflects the DIVERSITY of its members -- it's not some clubby little talk-shop of like-minded academics... It's potential is ENORMOUS, and I simply cannot respect the judgement of those who leave it complaining of the very features which give it LIFE. It's YOUNG, and it will DEVELOP. Those who leave are quitters -- simple. +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1959] Re: Something completely different
On Wed, 13 Dec 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I left the "Marxism" list. I work as an academic, but I'm a Marxist and > an activist. Good -- `cause a lot of `academics' are _not_ activists . I resent the notion that one is not much of a Marxist or > an ivory-tower type if one leaves the list because of its "grittiness" > and "informality." I do not think that Dana Thorpe and MIM are just > examples of "informality." They are the worst examples, but a lot of > junk clogged up my mailbox. Mine too -- but I'm still on it (gee... I suppose that _this_ message qualifies as `junk' in some circles). And once > a good discussion did get going, it would tend to degenerate very > quickly--sometimes through name-calling, but mostly because some > people on the list were so unserious as to fixate on a tangent in other > people's discussions and divert the whole thing. So what? That's what happens when you've got a lot of people coming from a lot of different angles... I'll reiterate that there is a tendency for academics to ignore what is _valuable_ about this List, simply because it's not a cosy little perfessors' korner... Patience is required, and yet we have the below: > It took Marx nearly 25 years to write _Capital_. It's a great expression > of his serious concern with ideas and his patience in *developing* thought > in a painstaking, methodical way. The Marxism list was not very > conducive to that. Your referring to the List in the past-tense sends me the message that _your_ needs are all that matter here. The List will exist with, or without, your involvement... Marx was by no means retreating or becoming an ivory- > tower "academic" because he sat in the library and thought and read and > wrote--he certainly did not do it *instead* of political work, but as > part of his political work, and to suggest that everyone who left the > Marxism list did so because they're retreating from politics is ludicrous > (although in some instances it's undoubtedly true). Had Marx thought > of spending his time on things like the Marxism list, would there have > been _Capital_? Would there have been an International? Or would the > whole thing have gone up in flames ;-)? You flatter yourself, in comparing yourself and others to Marx. That was a different time, but I'm sure Marx would've only quit the List temporarily, if he was overwhelmed with work and still among the Living... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1915] Re: miscellaneous comments
On Mon, 11 Dec 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote to Louis Proyect: > It is certainly true that you have > driven off most of the academics, so I have been told offnet, > much to the disgust of the list co-moderators, I might add. That may very well be true, but I must say that it's my opinion that anyone who's left the Marxism List for these reasons can't be half as smart or erudite as they think they are. It's become clear to me (and others) that `academic' marxists/marxians/whatever suffer from an ACUTE case of lack of grounding in the reality of class struggle. The Marxism List is an INCREDIBLE resource to cherish -- and anyone who leaves in a huff, miffed because it's no longer solely an arena for the discussion of highbrow abstractions, because it breaks out all too often in the verbal equivalent of fist-fights, is someone who VERY MUCH MISSES THE POINT OF IT ALL. Louis Proyect mentions the work of Ellen Meiksins Wood. She describes in `Democracy Against Capitalism', that kind of `academic marxist' who finds comfort in accomodating himself to Capitalism. I very much like what she has to say about this. It's my opinion that _any_ academic WHO IS NOT ALSO AN ACTIVE PARTY MEMBER OR ORGANIZER is someone who thinks TOO MUCH and doesn't test their theorizing often enough to know whether it has much validity or not. Anyone who leaves a marxism List because they don't like the informality and grittiness of it all isn't much of a marxist, IMO... If there are any marxist perfessors out there reading this who are not actively engaged in politics or unionism, I HEARTILY suggest you get out and FIND some to share your expertise with -- real quick... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1913] Re: A history of PC
On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, Martin Hart-Landsberg wrote: > Several people mentioned the rightwing use of political correctness as a > tactic to discredit the left and were interested in the history of this > phenomenon. The best discussion of this I have seen is in a book called > Generation at the Crossroads by Paul Rogat Loeb, Rutgers University Press, > 1994 -- chapter 24. That chapter is a wonderful case study of how what > looks to be some general cultural or ideological drift is really the > result of conscious ruling class policy. I've always understood `public opinion' of the right-wing sort to be carefully prepared and spread propaganda, and I've always tried to point this out to those on the Left who seem to feel it's some kind of naturally occurring `zeitgeist'... People on the Left should stop being so defensive. I never am..! :> +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1912] Re: Wainwright versus Wood
On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Louis N Proyect wrote: > Ellen Meiksins Wood's latest book is "Democracy Vs Capitalism", Verso. It > is a defense of a Marxist understanding of democracy. Terms such as > "dictatorship of the proletariat" are explored. I haven't read it yet, > but heard her in a seminar based on the book last month in NY. From what > I can gather, it is a sustained attack on the notion of "radical > democracy", etc. I've just bought this book -- on Proyect's effusive recommendation. >From what I've read so far, I like..! Maybe I'll even bus into Toronto and get Meiksins Wood to autograph it... ;> +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1911] chase manatthan bank (fwd)
I'm forwarding this to the erudite crew in PEN-L. Perhaps y'all can help: -- Forwarded message -- Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 23:05:57 +0100 (CET) From: Aniello Margiotta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: chase manatthan bank Hi, I need a report about Chase manatthan bank,because in my area Bagnoli-Naples, where there are the headquarter of NATO which drive militar operation in Bosnia, after closing a big steel farmer, a speculative project for VIP tourism has been prepared with financial support of US bank. Every news are accepted expecially about interestings of the bank in tourist projects in foregn countries in support of military operations. Thanks Nello * [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.synapsis.it/uw/amargiotta/nello.htm Change the world before the world changes you * +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1852] Re: The "internationalists" vs us narrow-minded "nationalists"
On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Doug Henwood wrote: > Actually I thought PC was coined by leftists in a bit of ironic > self-mockery. I always thought it was a maoist term -- but I _do_ remember the sequence of events which led up to the present situation: use of the term by leftists after the `Fall of the Wall' in an attempt to `loosen up' old Left terminology, and the quickly ensuing hue-and-cry by the Right (I suspect some think-tank skullduggery here), pointing fingers at left mind-control, etc., yadda, yadda... On the one hand, its use is a stupid right-wing debating > trick now, but on the other hand, Trond, you should see some of the drivel > that emerges from the US left - the label is well-deserved in those cases. Like anti-pornography feminists playing into the hands of right-wing censors (to give just one example)?? > On the bigger issue of inter/nationalism, I wonder what Norway and Canada > would be like if there were no MNCs and imperialist monsters like the UK > and US around, the countries that created and maintain the modern global > division of spoils. I sometimes think that people in these countries want > it both ways - First World incomes, but without the moral stigma that comes > with being a global bully. Take it from me officially: Canadians have to be the world's biggest hypocrites... I don't know about Norwegians (but I do see that there is growing intermarriage between Newfie women and Norwegian fishermen... :) +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1847] Re: silliness
On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Louis N Proyect wrote: > Maybe it is a psychological problem. I have a very underdeveloped libido > (that's what psychologists call the part of the brain that's involved > with duty, conscience, propriety, etc., isn't it? If somebody knows the > name of a good psychotherapist in NY who can help me reinforce my libido, > please contact me by private e-mail.) If it's reinforcement of your _libido_ you want, I suggest taking regular trips down to Times Square... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1824] Re: Re[2]: THE QUESTION OF WEALTH
On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, James Devine wrote: > In a recent PC Magazine, John Dvorak notes that MS acts as if > it's strongly opposed to ASCII. I'd bet that this is because MS > wants to set all of the conventions in the computer world. Which issue is that? Is this why getting ANSI boxes is so difficult in Windoze? +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1823] Re: More Polanyi vs. Hayek
On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, bill mitchell wrote: > > I think Thatcherism was not fascist simply because it did not NEED > >to be... Thatcher herself I consider to be an out-and-out fascist. > > We should be careful to use terms that are meaningful in the context of which > they have been historically coined. hayek is nothing like a fascist nor is > maggie thatcher. OK -- she's a NEO-fascist... :> > one doesn't have to be a fascist to be the propounder of structures and > policies which we on the left would find utterly repugnant. both the named fit > that category. but they are not fascistic. I'm sorry, but I disagree. I truly believe that Margaret Thatcher was quite capable of becoming a british Pinochet. That her (not his) government ITSELF was not fascist I wouldn't debate -- but that's not the point here. My point is that the british Conservative Party is full of closet fascists (of either the neo or paleo type -- take yer pick). +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1821] Re: More Polanyi vs. Hayek
On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Jim Devine wrote: > As much as I dislike Hayekian politics, I think it's confusing > matters to call them "fascist" as Huseyin Ozel does. Hayekian > politics may push us in the direction of an "objectively fascist" > system, i.e., strengthen the power of the state, repressing > organized labor, etc. (It need not go all the way; I wouldn't > call Thatcherism "fascism.") I think Thatcherism was not fascist simply because it did not NEED to be... Thatcher herself I consider to be an out-and-out fascist. +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1820] Re: SHOCKING NEWS: INDIAN GOVERNMENT COMMITTED MASS MURDER??
On Fri, 8 Dec 1995, Arvind Jaggi wrote: > Inspite of the lepers, the holy cows and the caste system, the > burning brides and unequal income distribution, the one facet of Indian > society that warrants credit is its relatively free and critical press. It > is inconceivable that an "extermination" of even 50 people would have gone > unnoticed. Where did Mr. Waterman obtain his facts? Good question. Since I went to all the trouble of posting something here which is more likely disinformation than truth, I will do my best to track this thing down through the composer of the piece... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1819] Re: SHOCKING NEWS: INDIAN GOVERNMENT COMMITTED MASS MURDER
On Fri, 8 Dec 1995, Pauline Chakravartty wrote: > Gandhi. The bourgeois bastards who rule Calcutta are Marxists. Calcutta is > in West Bengal, which has been ruled by the CPI(M), a Marxist-Leninist > party which has been in power for over 20 years. Calcutta is not > necessarily an easy place to live in, in Western standards, but it is a > very political city, with freedom of the press, particularly on the left, > with wider parameters than in this country, so I somehow doubt that this > story didn't make it to the Indian presses. I'm sure glad I added a disclaimer! Isn't it still possible that this might've been kept from the state government by the military (unlikely for sure)? > I don't know if John Waterman is the best source for news in this context. The report is supposedly in Time Magazine -- not the best source for the Truth, that's for sure! Since you've never heard of this, I'll have to check back with the original programmer and see that he double-checks HIS source... > >From the black hole of Madison, WI. Gee, and I always thought Madison was such a _nice_ place! :> Thanx for giving me the benefit of your experience. +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1794] Re: Urgent Action request
On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, D Shniad wrote: > ethical behavior. However, authors of a recent International Labor > Organization report, document that there are no labour rights in El > Salvador, that every attempt to organize in the free trade zones has > been met with the same systematic firing and threats common at > Mandarin. Can't ask the Salvadoran people to fight these pigs forever, but for me, it's pretty clear that the FMLN has made itself irrelevant and ineffective -- better they should've stayed out and `dealt' with matters like this on the behalf of the workers... :< +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1793] SHOCKING NEWS: INDIAN GOVERNMENT COMMITTED MASS MURDER IN 1980'S??
I have received just about the most shocking news I have ever heard: A late-night programmer at a campus station in Canada (who shall remain nameless) played a found-sound, collage-type piece: `Calcutta Gas Chamber' created by composer John Waterman. I missed the first part of what he said, but I called him up and confirmed it. It is this: In the 1980s -- for six(?) years until 1989 -- the Government of India rounded up Calcutta's `untouchables' by the _THOUSANDS_ -- perhaps _HUNDREDS of thousands_ -- and gassed them to death in a Nazi-style eradication campaign. Daily, there was _FOURTEEN TON(NE)S of `unusable' bone ash_ dumped from the crematorium which I assume was part of the apparatus. This monstrous crime was committed in the name of `population control' (Soylent Green, anyone??), and I'm sure that the Westerners concerned in aiding and abetting this perversion of `family planning' are as guilty of genocide and mass murder... Who was the Prime Minister then? Rajiv Ghandi? Desai? Rao? There was supposedly an expose' in Time Magazine (1990?) (did I ever come across this B4? Did anyone else?), and also apparently, the same monsters encouraged people to bathe in radioactive cooling ponds... There were pictures of the facility taken, but later(?) at which time it appears that the `program' was being phased-out, and it was apparently (again) turned into a cinema... Now, it's just possible that this is part of a CIA disinformation campaign -- as India was allied with the USSR against China and the U.S. -- but I just _KNOW_ that those bourgeois bastards who rule India are capable of such attrocities... :< Who the hell knows anything about this, and if it's true, what can we do to bring these criminals to justice?? +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1769] Re: oxygen for sale
On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Iwao Kitamura wrote: > I've never tried those little oxgen bags but sure they _were_ available > at kiosks several years ago. Today no one can remember what it was. So you're saying that it was just a passing fad -- which gained world-wide notoriety -- but that this image we have of Tokyo/Nippon is no longer accurate? +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1768] Re: Re[2]: THE QUESTION OF WEALTH
On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, lbell wrote: > Jim, you are always going off on twigs! Love you anyway. But Gates owns > the rights to the use of what he sells, this generates ongoing revenue. > He also has kept ownership of what he started. If he got ill tomorrow, > his business would continue to generate income. This is what I am > getting to. Create wealth and it will create revenue for generations to > come. It's what we should be thinking about in this country. Magic > Johnson, put it very well several years back at a graduation speech. > Telling his audience they better make sure they own something; otherwise, > they have to go back every year to the man and beg for a new contract. Someone else who's clearly gotten on the wrong List... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1665] Re: Minimum wages in real terms
On Fri, 1 Dec 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > For this kind of dramatic wage increase, workers can not rely on the > state and will have to rely on their own collective strength (e.g. a > general strike) and be prepared for the political/social/economic > consequences. Not to forget the necessity of international cooperation and coordination among the workers of all these countries... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1570] Re: Women in...
On Mon, 20 Nov 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [great stuff deleted] > waitresses in small restaurants are rarely carried on the books; thousands of > women engage in non-recorded but paid care jobs for children, maids, > eldercare, cleaning jobs in homes and offices, etc.; women make up a huge > portion of illegal garment workers and farm workers; and then there is the > old unmentionable topic -- prostitution. Given all this, the truth is, > married women in blue collar homes who do not work are in the vast MINority. Thanx a jillion Maggie -- you've really disabused me of some long-held and obviously simplistic ideas..! +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1569] Re: Price, Commercialization, Internalization of the Net
On Tue, 21 Nov 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > 4) I do not want any of the above to be interpreted as an attack against > the NYMS. They do good work and are an important resource for Marxists in > the NYC area. I do, however, want Bill to reconsider the nature of his > intervention on PEN-L. I would much rather hear what he has to say about > theoretical and political issues than to hear advertisements. I agree with your point about being poor and avoiding being singled-out, but I, for one, _would_ like to know what the world-famous(?) NY Marxist School is doing in our attempt to advance a marxist understanding of our universe... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1474] Re: Privatization
On Sat, 18 Nov 1995, Robert Peter Burns wrote: > I read in today's New York Times that economic growth > in Poland is now running at 6.5 percent, "despite" > the fact that the privatization program there is very > incomplete and slow. Gee. 6.5% growth. I wonder how much misery THAT statistic is hiding... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ |stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | | if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig| | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1365] Re: Shalom.
On Thu, 9 Nov 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I say the fault is on both sides. As far as arabs and israelis serve Imperialism, they are _both_ at fault. This makes the Saudi, Egyptian and Moroccan elites guilty, and I suppose the Libyans and Algerians less so. Saying the fault is on both sides illuminates nothing, though... Trond objected > when I brought up Palestinians expelling and killing Jews in > Hebron in 1929 because that is "history." I could have gone > deeper and brought up blood libels in Damascus in 1840 with > mass pogroms (killings), etc., but that is also history. > Apparently Deir Yasin, the 1967 conquests, the 1982 invasion > of Lebanon with its associated horrors, the behavior of West > Bank fundamentalist settlers, and the repression of the Intifada > are not history (all the fault of Israel) and therefore "count." It all counts. This part of your argument is irrelevant. > Let us look at some of the leaders with whom the Israelis > must deal. Sticking strictly with the self-styled socialists > rather than the religious fanatics in Iran (not Arabs, I know), > we have: Must you so crudely set up strawmen?? They are not socialists, and not even officially, more than formally and perfunctorily. You come off looking like the narrowest of zionists when you do this... > 1) Hafez el-Assad, a military dictator whose government > is chock full of family members and fellow members of the Awalite > minority Shi'i sect. When majority Sunnis rose up in revolt Assad > killed about 30,000 in the city of Hama which was totally leveled. > I'm not sure, but I think this exceeds the entire total of deaths > of Palestinians due to Israeli actions since 1947. This is a > "progressive" Arab killing fellow Arabs, including lots of women > and children. He's _not_ progressive, and he shouldn't be in power. So what? > Is anybody on this net criticizing him? Probably. > He, of > course harbors Palestinian groups opposed to the peace process > just like the Likudniks. What a great guy! How progressive! Like I said: strawmen. > 2) Saddam Hussein, also a military dictator claiming to be a > progressive socialist with a gov't stacked with family members > and people from his minority Sunni group, especially from Tikrit. Will you get off the socialism crap?? _Nobody_ serious considers these Ba'athist `parties' to be anything other than equivalent to their falangist buddies. Sounds like pure U.S./Israeli propaganda to me... > Besides killing most of the members of the Communist Party, Which should be a BIG hint to you... > 3) the clownish Moammar Gaddafi, who actually has not engaged in > mass murder, but recently expelled Palestinians to show his opposition > to the peace process. Way to go, Moammar! I think you get TOO much of your `information' from CNN, frankly... > This final point raises a shameful point that is also rarely > talked about, the treatment of Palestinians by their "fellow" Arabs, > which is plain awful. Arabs in Israel proper have more rights than > Palestinians in practically any Arab state. Might be true, but I'm not willing to go around spouting what's surely not the whole fact of the matter... Better you should concentrate on how Western Imperialism maintains these relationships. > I completely agree that if > the current peace process worsens or does not reduce this oppressiveness > then it will not be a sustainable peace that results. Such a peace > with mutual respect and lack of exploitation and killing on all sides > is what I support. This `Peace' will last only as long as the U.S. (or its successors') can maintain hegemony in the Mideast. +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1364] Re: Saro-Wiwa
On Sat, 11 Nov 1995, bill mitchell wrote: > >Ken Saro-Wiwa was murdered because he protested the environmental > >degradation of his region by SHELL Oil Company. The government of Nigeria > >killed him to protect Shell. Any campaign should be directed against Shell. > > Rod > > > Not quite right rod. he was hung under the law of nigeria for being part of a > killing of people at a protest rally. according to the rule of law in nigeria > he was subject to due process and received the judicially-imposed penalty. > better to at least identify that he was done in not b/c he protested as you > imply. I don't believe he was being literal... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1350] Re: utter madness
On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Doug Henwood wrote: > Professional speculators have mental > processes very different from normal people. Ya: They're lying scum bastards... (to paraphrase Ernest Hemingway on something F. Scott Fitzgerald said about the Rich) +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1346] Re: Capitalism & Autonomy: a talk by Michael Brie
On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Bill Koehnlein wrote: > floor, New York, New York 10001. For orders outside of the U.S. > please remit a bank check or international money order payable in > U.S. funds and enclose an additional US$5 per order to cover the > cost of air postage. Seems to me Canada should be exempt from the $5 air postage charge? +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1308] Re: Shalom.
On Tue, 7 Nov 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Did > not Arafat's uncle, the chief Muslim leader of Jerusalem, > collaborate with the Nazis? I get really pissed when someone throws up this `Nazi collaborator' thing. Use yer HEAD fella: it's one thing to collaborate when your country is occupied by scum -- it's ANOTHER THING to collaborate with the same scum to get rid of the OTHER scum (British, in this case) that's occupying YOU. You'd make a poor leader in a crisis IMO... > I say that total victory by the extremists of either side > of this conflict will lead to a full-blown genocide. Clearly > this is what those associated with the assassin of Rabin want. > It is also what the Hezbollah and the Islamic Jihad want. I have > spent time in the Middle East and I must say that it was unnerving > to hear Arab cab drivers calmly tell me that all Jews are bad and > that they should all be killed. Period. Gee. I wonder whose fault it is that the situation has reached this state? > So, I say the killing should stop. This can only be carried > out by people covered in blood who have the credibility to carry > along the genocidal maniacs among their own followers. One of those > was Rabin and another is Arafat. No peace coming out of this will > be viewed as a "victory" by the fanatics of either side because their > views are utterly irreconciliable. I see nothing good coming out of > this assassination. Let me point out `geopolitikal' Reality to you: Israel only has to lose *ONCE* -- and it is _finished_. Now tell me: who should be careful and reasonable here?? Yet the Israelis have tied their fortunes to the Imperialists and will live or die by what Washington and London diktate. Pretty bad odds IMO! Time is on the _Arab_ side and the Jews had _better_ make a BONA FIDE peace with them -- NOT the cynical and hypocritical sham they're trying to pull-off now... Salaam. +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1307] Re: Shalom
On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Tom Walker wrote: > Perhaps PEN-Lers have heard the expression about catching more flies with > honey than with vinegar? A sense of tragedy brings people together, a sense > of umbrage divides. I repeat, my purpose was to call for peace. Perhaps you realize that this hoary old phrase is often an argument put forth by those who wish to blunt a straight push by social movements? That it is often a precursor to losing of inertia, then dissipation and defeat? May I ask > what *rhetorical* purpose is served by orations about the "crimes of Rabin?" Countering CNN propaganda? The phony `Peace' process which this man is being lauded for creating? If not here, then WHERE does the propaganda buck stop?? +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1267] Re: Shalom.
On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Trond Andresen wrote: > Calling this guy a peace martyr, is just as meaningful as calling Mr. De > Klerk a freedom fighter when he had to give in to the S.A. liberation > struggle, and to call Mr. Kissinger a peacemaker when he finally had to > give up the Indo-China wars after having saturation-bombed Vietnam, > Laos and Cambodia back to the middle ages, with a couple of millions > killed. Right-on, Trond. Only the Likud-type fascists are worse... I might add that Israeli hi-tech and Mossad treachery has been used world-wide to kill HUNDREDS, if not thousands of freedom fighters and innocents, in the service of U.S., etc. imperialism. Labor and Likud are BOTH guilty, and Rabin was right up there with that other war criminal, Sharon. I really could care less that he's dead (I worry only that it helps destabilize the `Levant' and could lead to the future slaughter of many innocent israelis) -- more to worry about Ken Saro-Wiwa and others! Some might think this is incredibly callous, but it's as much a reaction to the disgustingly misleading propaganda barrage in the media as anything... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1266] Re: Israel
On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Michael Perelman wrote: > > And why should the subject be avoided? > > > Because we would probably talk about nothing else. Isn't _that_ too bad? Don't worry -- talk will tail off as soon as the Establishment signals they want it to end by taking it off the media... (But PEN-L might carry on longer, which would be to its CREDIT...) +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1261] Re: Israel
On Mon, 6 Nov 1995, Michael Perelman wrote: > For some reason, nothing seems to divide the left so quickly as questions > about Jewish politics. I have been happy to see that subject absent from > pen-l. > > Rather than get ourselves immersed in questions of Rabin and his policies, > could we leave it pass. And why should the subject be avoided? +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1257] Re: Shalom.
On Mon, 6 Nov 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Tom Walker wrote: > > > To honour the memory of Yitzhak Rabin, I have changed my signature file to > > read "Shalom". Blessed are the peacemakers. > > > While I can understand the sentiments expressed above (especially, since > those ideas are being promulgated by the mass media), I think we have to > have a more *critical* perspective on Rabin. I'm glad someone said it... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1250] re: shrinking datastream(?)
On Fri, 3 Nov 1995, Tom Walker wrote: > With all the bad news about cutbacks in government information, I thought > PEN-L's might be pleased that advances are being made in some areas. Who > needs a census when you can get all the *really* important information by > wiretapping? I guess this comes under the category `Banality of Evil'... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1224] Re: Fascism cyberseminar
On Wed, 1 Nov 1995, Doug Henwood wrote: > >As distasteful as it may sound, has it occured to anyone to read the "other > >side"? > > I highly recommend Mein Kampf, though I don't have the time to be its > official representative. _Now_ I can suggest my reading `The Memoirs of General Gehlen'... :> +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal | |+ if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + | | more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1054] Silence of the Lambdas...
Unless I missed it, only ONE economist here actually bothered to reply to my request for data to combat the neoliberal assaults currently underway everywhere. Not a word too on my post about a general strike. I have to say that this doesn't help lessen the image out there, IMO, that Lists such as this are populated by academics solely interested in abstractions -- and not in actually putting their knowledge to work in the Real World... :< +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:1039] Re: Generational Differences among Marxists
On Wed, 18 Oct 1995, Nathan Newman wrote: > I haven't been in a lot of this discussion but as someone at least half a > generation younger than Louis, I have to second a number of these points > by Danby. The issues of displacement of peoples, racism and > interpenetration has created a strong contradiction between "self > determination" for national liberation struggles and international human > rights and economic demands. Trade policy has linked people across > borders complicating the old divisions between "solidarity work" and > "mass work in the US." The present narrow nationalism being used to whip-up the white francophone people of Que'bec is a GOOD example of such dangers... All others -- anglophones, immigrants, colored people, First Nations -- are left completely out of the scenaria of the Future painted by the petty bourgeois demagogues leading this folly... It could lead to a dangerous situation EASILY... :< +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:989] Re: Generational Differences among Marxists
On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Louis N Proyect wrote: > I can get away with speaking my mind because I was strongly > influenced by Spinoza's example. Spinoza realized that he never could > defend his ideas forcefully as a professor, so he took up lens-grinding > for a living. I tell it like it is. Spinoza had something else to grind too -- a personal axe for his youthful public humiliation... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:986] Re: Lindbeck, Lucas's Nobel, and the Swedish economy
On Mon, 16 Oct 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > 1) Clearly if the Nobel is to be given for impact, > Lucas deserves it. If it is to be given for originality > that is highly questionable. If it is to be given on the > outcome of his policy recommendations, then it is even more > questionable, ...And the Nobel Peace prize has been given to Henry Kissinger -- why pay any attention to this pretentious bourgeois decadence?? I sure don't. I know it's `important' -- but for that reason it behooves us to _IGNORE_ it -- same way as I ignore the useless `Academy' Awards and (here in Canada) the Governor General's Awards... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:985] Re: market socialism and the environment
On Mon, 16 Oct 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > 1) I think a "global network of Mondragons" would be > a lot better than what we have now. But I do not think that > it would be sufficient to solve all environmental problems. > Some are global and must be dealt with at that level. This > may even involve some sort of planning, although probably not > of the detailed sort laid out by Paul Cockshott. I'm not sure this is exactly Proyect's objection here, but to any marxist, the above would appear completely naive (if I have your intentions right). Of COURSE a global network of Mondragons would be superior! Who could be against that? -- but if it were simply a case of planning and implementing it, we'd've _HAD_ it by now... The actual problem (which I believe Proyect _may_ have pointed out) is that the Capitalists simply would not ALLOW such a challenge to their power; and would dismantle such a system -- if it even allowed it to grow in the first place. Your point is moot -- which is why we even have to discuss the inferior alternatives -- or were you just playing the Devil's advocate here? +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:952] Re: Change in the law of appropriation
On Sun, 15 Oct 1995, bill mitchell wrote: > well we are not necessarily discussing market socialism. i was responding to > Louis (who has now taken to writing scripts for a play - should be a > blockbuster i reckon, central character is well formed and pretty darn > interesting!). he was against markets. i wanted to know what was wrong with the > term market if we put it into a perpective that was non-capitalist. that is, if > we eliminate the vertical relations that exist in capitalist LMs, what > remaining objections have we to this idea - a place to shop. My first impulse is to be against `markets' too, but I'd like to see this all laid out, all logical-like. All the cards on the table... Just what _are_ the pros and cons of `market socialism' -- in the simple sense above, FI -- when Surplus Value is not a consideration?? +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:951] Re: Extinction, Market Socialism and priorities
On Sun, 15 Oct 1995, Mason Clark wrote: > It's not important who said this, but would someone please define > SOCIALISM ? And explain how it automatically creates Utopia? > Who will be in charge? Votes by all the people? An intellectual > elite? HAL, the computer? Will it get information from the market? > Will it cut off my supply of soft toilet paper? CIVILIZED people use bidets... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:924] Re: Oxymoron
On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, D Shniad wrote: > OXYMORON: LABOUR BOARD JUSTICE > > Telemarketing workers who lost their jobs when > Sprint closed its La Conexion Familiar subsidiary > during a union organizing drive got no help in a > recent ruling from an administrative judge at the > National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). I recently ended my Sprint account -- I'd just got it -- and made it very clear to the guy on the other end _why_ I was doing so. I wonder how many cancellations are building up in their computers as being related to their assault on the Mexican workers..? Hope everybody cancels!! +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:816] Re: Louis Proyect on market socialism and the environment
On Thu, 12 Oct 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > 1) In my original comments I already acknowledged your > earlier discussion about Stalin, planning and all that. I > see no relevance to bringing all that up again. I didn't. > Clearly, useful planning must be democratically controlled > which I think was probably the case in Nicaragua, if not Cuba, > even though Castro could probably win a free election if he > held one. Hey -- let's get this canard settled once-and-for-all: are elections in Cuba free or not?? Hell -- are elections in the U.S. even as fair and democratic as they are in Cuba??? +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:815] Re: The Fraser Institute on labour-management relations
On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, D Shniad wrote: > The Vancouver-based, right wing, corporate-sponsored Fraser > Institute is presenting a series of free student seminars, with lunch > provided, dealing with public policy issues. Notable among the list > of topics to be covered in the program is a presentation by Fraser > Institute Policy Analyst Fazil Mihlar, which will elaborate on the > theme "Breaking Up Unions for Economic Prosperity." Hey. It's Class War. Where do I sign up?? +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:786] General Strike
Here in Ontario, talk is growing of a general strike against the new neoliberal provincial government. It'll be a while yet, and I don't have too many unrealistic expectations of _overwhelming_ compliance (I think), but the recent well-covered success of the French general strike has _me_ encouraged! :> My own wish is that people in as many US states and canadian provinces as possible co-ordinate their activities and hold general strikes everywhere at the same time. The effect would be far larger than just one or a few regions going it alone. Anybody here from France who could fill us in on the details of the French `Day of Protest'? Maybe give us a few pointers? I suppose the upcoming `Million Man March' on Washington D.C. will give us some idea of the possibilities in the near future... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:783] Re: A simple slogan
On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Tom Walker wrote: > JUBILEE 2000 > > 1. sustainable yield resource management. > 2. limitation of working time (shorter work week). > 3. periodic, universal cancellation of debt. I'd concentrate on the 30-hour work week... +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:753] Re: world tax equitibility
On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Bill Briggs wrote: > um... how does that quote go? > > there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. [smile] Those stats were great -- where can I get more of 'em (more! more!)?? +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | OCTOBER 16 - 22 : TV TURNOFF WEEK| +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:706] Re: Assassination of Martin Luther King
On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, D Shniad wrote: > Martin Luther King Jr. > > CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER 'KILLED BY U.S. AGENTS,' NEW > BOOK CHARGES > > Andrew Billen > Observer News Service > > LONDON -- Civil rights leader Martin Luther King > Jr. was assassinated by America's secret services, > a book about to be published in the United States > claims. Gee... the silence on this one is DEAFENING. Or is it just apathy? (maybe fear of ridicule for even acknowledging the possibility?) In that case I hope Shniad doesn't post anything on the Kennedy brothers..! :> É» º stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal º º + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + º º more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm º ̹ º"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people...º º it is true that most stupid people are conservative" º º - John Stuart Mill º ÌÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͹ º Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. º º http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html º ȼ
[PEN-L:704] Re: CLC news release on IHAC report
On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, D Shniad wrote: > CANADIAN LABOUR CONGRESS -- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 1995 > > Fewer jobs, more profits -- > > INFO HIGHWAY TO SERVE BIG BUSINESS: > IHAC MEMBER PARROT > For more information: [...] > Jean-Claude Parrot, Executive Vice President > Canadian Labour Congress (613) 526-7403 > > Alexander Crawley, President > Assn. of Can. Cinema Television & Radio Artists (416) 489-1311 > > opeiu225 Does Parrot have an email address at the CLC?? Crawley at his union? É» º stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal º º + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + º º more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm º ̹ º Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin º º to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assembly º º deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 º ÌÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͹ º Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. º º http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html º ȼ
[PEN-L:703] Looking for Mr. Good Bar(graph)
Here in Ontario, Canada, we've just had elected by deceit and mucho moola, an extremely vicious neoliberal Tory (Conservative Party) provincial government. I'm presently working with people here to try and bring this government down, as it has, frankly, declared all-out Class War on the poor and working-class. Can anyone here help me/us with figures and documents showing just what a bunch of bald-faced liars these people are? I'm looking for those famous stats on the deficit being 95% corporate tax-evasion/interest rates, decline of corporate share of the tax burden, etc., etc. -- whatever you people have. Thanx. É» º stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal º º + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + º º more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm º ̹ º"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people...º º it is true that most stupid people are conservative" º º - John Stuart Mill º ÌÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͹ º Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. º º http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html º ȼ
[PEN-L:624] Re: capital goods
On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Iwao Kitamura wrote: > >=09Iwao -- I'm curious about the Mid-East numbers. Why 100%? Is it > >the nature of the business, its size, or some other factors? >=20 > One reason is that the direct investment from Japan to middle east is > targeting only crude oil production. This requires mostly construction > investment. Second reason is a statistical problem that the category "loc= al" > here means that japanese affiliates purchase investment materials not > through direct import. =09So you mean that as long as it's first imported by some other `local' company it doesn't count as imported?=20 =C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=BB =BA stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal = =BA =BA + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + = =BA =BA more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin = =BA =BA to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assemb= ly =BA =BA deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key availab= le. =BA =BA http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html = =BA =C8=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=BC
[PEN-L:613] Re: capital goods
On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Iwao Kitamura wrote: > =09=09=09=09=09=09(%) > =09=09=09=09local=09Japan=09Other > North America=09all indusrty=0978.4=0915.2=096.4 > =09=09manufacturing=0981.3=0918.2=090.5 > Latin America=09all indusrty=0969.6=0922.9=097.5 > =09=09manufacturing=0982.4=0917.5=090.1 > Asia=09=09all indusrty=0942.9=0951.6=095.5 > =09=09manufacturing=0940.9=0953.4=095.7 > Middle East=09all indusrty=09100.0=090.0=090.0 > =09=09manufacturing=09100.0=090.0=090.0 > Europe=09=09all indusrty=0978.9=0915.7=095.3 > =09=09manufacturing=0974.4=0919.0=096.6 > Oceania=09=09all indusrty=0997.1=091.5=091.4 > =09=09manufacturing=0997.2=091.0=091.8 > Africa=09=09all indusrty=096.2=0977.7=0916.1 > =09=09manufacturing=0956.7=0919.7=0923.6 > Total=09=09all indusrty=0962.3=0931.8=095.8 > =09=09manufacturing=0960.2=0935.9=093.9 =09Iwao -- I'm curious about the Mid-East numbers. Why 100%? Is it=20 the nature of the business, its size, or some other factors? =C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=BB =BA stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal = =BA =BA + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + = =BA =BA more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin = =BA =BA to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assemb= ly =BA =BA deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key availab= le. =BA =BA http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html = =BA =C8=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=BC
[PEN-L:569] HELP!!
=09Sorry for the last one..! On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, James Devine wrote: > if the government continues to cut back on social programs that=20 > allow people to soften the blow of declining and/or stagnating=20 > real wages, it will cause deepening and widening social unrest,=20 > of a variety of different sorts, from the 1992 LA riots to the=20 > growth of the militias. Further cuts in people's social wages can=20 > also hurt the market for products, encouraging stagnation. =09I'd just like to add that on Wednesday, there was a pretty big demo at the opening of the Ontario Legislature -- where the new neoliberal Tory government was unveiling its confrontational intentions (`tough' talk in the headlines leading up to this -- roughly the same day they cut welfare and other programs by at LEAST 22%) in the `throne' speech (what a democratic image, that...) =09One notable thing about this crowd was how deep the anger was... Soon enough, part of the crowd rushed the doors of the legislature and there was enough blood and pepper spray to make the Canada-wide evening news and I assume today's headlines. Even one of those building-clearing bomb scares... A lot of people got the message that the Tories are in for the roughest time they've had for decades -- perhaps ever...=20 =09One of our allied Hamilton groups has come up with a flyer for local merchants outlining how the welfare cuts will be affecting THEIR businesses -- in case they haven't already figured-out how the cost-cutting lunacy will be impacting Small Business: the very people the Tories have been counting on for support...=20 =C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=BB =BA stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal = =BA =BA + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + = =BA =BA more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin = =BA =BA to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assemb= ly =BA =BA deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key availab= le. =BA =BA http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html = =BA =C8=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=BC
[PEN-L:567] Re: HELP!!
On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, James Devine wrote: > if the government continues to cut back on social programs that > allow people to soften the blow of declining and/or stagnating > real wages, it will cause deepening and widening social unrest, > of a variety of different sorts, from the 1992 LA riots to the > growth of the militias. Further cuts in people's social wages can > also hurt the market for products, encouraging stagnation. +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP Public Key available. | | http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html | +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
[PEN-L:413] Witnesses at Ipperwash
Note 11431 in newsgroup alt.native From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gwethalyn Gauvreau) Subject: Ipperwash Eyewitness Statement Ipperwash Provincial Park Occupation By Pottawatiml and Ojibway men, women and children September 9, 1995 Witness who was there from beginning - Roger Abraham George On Tuesday, September 5, 1995, a group of Stoney Point people including myself and a few supporters were at the Parkview drive entrance to Immperwash Provincial Park (Ontario, Canada). We had it blocked with a garbage dumpster. Police activity was heavy and they left. We figured something was up. They returned around 11:10 pm. Bernard George and others went down to the entrance. A few came back and reproted phone wire running along. They cut it. Bernard by himself went to the front gate and others came back. He had a 2 way radio and another had a radio at another entrance. I had a police scanner and heard the cops say, "There in one along the road. I think he has a weapon" "Yes, he has a weapon." "No, it's only a stick." This is what he heard. All he heard. All he had was a 2 way radio. A car was coming down the entrance. Lots of cops in riot gear, black in colour plastic shields lined up from side to side in 2 rows. There was 10 feet between us and them. We waited for them to ask us to leave but nothing was said. They did not even try to serve any kind of papers on us. We told them to leave and get the f... off our land. We started to get on the trunk of the car making noises on a garbage container trying to get them to leave. I heard the cop yell "retreat as far as the road". They went on outside the fence. I got 10 feet away from them. The cops started hitting shields and metal riot sticks. We heard, "Attack". They attacked us. We fought for a few minutes but were outnumbered. They retreated. They yell "He slipped" (Bernard George). They were dragging him toward a vehicle and started beating and kicking him. He was on the ground and being kicked by a bunch of cops surrounding him. I heard someone say, "Get in the bus and run the bastards over." My son Nicholas Cottrelle got in the bus and hit the garbage container pushing it towards the cops. The cops were on each side of the road. The buses backed up when gun shots were fired by the cops. I assumed they were warning shots. I looked back at the flash from the guns pointed in our direction. "Holy, f, they are shooting at us. Run." Anthony Brian George was between me and cops. Next thing I heard was that Dudley George had been hit. They carried Dudley back to the park. I directed the bus through. Put him in a car and wait for an ambulance. I was going to the store in the park to call ambulance. Somebody was already there. My son said he was OK and I saw the blood spot on his back. "Come here", and lifted up his shirt and saw a hole on the right side of his shoulder blade. "Does it hurt" I pointed to left and saw a wound 2 inches long, jumped into a car to call another ambulance. We arrived at the gatehouse. Dudley's brothers and sister were already rushing him to hospital. My wife told someone to call ambulance. We drove to the Hiway 21 roadblock. The cops refused to let us through and we almost got arrested. We had to take him through the roadblock. The cops stopped us and made the boy get out of the car and put his hands on the car. They finally took him to hospital. Statement of Roger Abraham George of Stoney Point. =C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=BB =BA stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal = =BA =BA + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + = =BA =BA more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin = =BA =BA to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assemb= ly =BA =BA deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[PEN-L:412] Mohawk Statement
Note 11432 in newsgroup alt.native From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gwethalyn Gauvreau) Subject: MOHAWK NATION SUPPORT GUSTAFSEN LAKE & IPPERWASH DEFENDERS MOHAWK NATION NEWS SERVICE (MNNS) P.O. BOX 333, KAHNAWAKE MOHAWK TERRITORY, (QUEBEC, CANADA) THE PEOPLE OF KAHNAWAKE MOHAWK TERRITORY BLOCK HIGHWAYS IN PROTEST MARCH IN SUPPORT OF ABORIGINAL STANDOFFS IN IPPERWASH ONTARIO AND GUSTAFSEN LAKE, BRITISH COLUMBIA. MNNS, Kahnawake, M.T. September 9, 1995. As a result of this march the Surete du Quebec closed all access into Kahnawake, including the Mercier Bridge, for several hours. Kahnawake is located on the south shore across the St. Lawrence River from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. The Mohawk Nation support thier brothers and sisters of the Pottawatoml = and Shuswap nations who are in a standoff over their land claims and ask all native and non- native to do the same. The men of the Mohawk Nation issued a postion on September 7th that they would not idly stand by while the Canadian police and military forces contine to brutalize the Aboriginal people. It was further stated that any further violence commited against any Aboriginal Nation will be answered in kind; those directly or indirectly responsible for the murder of their brother will be identified and held accountable for their actions; and those responsible for the beatings of Aboriginal women and children at Ipperwash will also be identified and held accountable for their actions. The Mohawk Nation supports their brothers and sisters. The Mohawk natins advocates the protection of human rights and democracy. "It is our responsibility based on the Great Law to use peaceful means to resolve the conflict." We urge people to take actions by writing or phoning the following: SPEAK UP! CALL THE SOLICITOR GENERAL OF ONTARIO 416/326-5000 ONTARIO PROVINCIAL POLICE AT FOREST 519/786-5445 Sgt. John Carson, Comm. & Sgt. Babbitt at the Checkpoint, OPP at Ipperwash 519/243-3491; PREMIER HARRIS OF ONTARIO TORONTO 416/325-1941; Fax to Ipperwash 519/289-5156 Rose. The people and their supporters are remaining at Ipperwash and need everything. For donations of money, food, camping and communications equipment, warm clothes and so on, call Canadian Alliance in Solidarity with the Native People 416/972- 1573 Fax 416/972-6232. =C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=BB =BA stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal = =BA =BA + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + = =BA =BA more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin = =BA =BA to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assemb= ly =BA =BA deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = =BA =BA http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html = =BA =C8=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=BC
[PEN-L:411] First Nations vs. The Invaders
=09For those of you following Actually Existing Imperialism in progress at Gustafsen Lake British Columbia and Camp Ipperwash Ontario (KKKanadian Apartheid rears its ugly head more and more often these days) there's at least one WWW site:=20 =09http://www.islandnet.com/~jwight/enviro/Sundancefrm.html =09=09is the `guestbook'=09=09 =09http://www.islandnet.com/~jwight/enviro/Sundancersp.html =09=09is the main document site. =09There's also at least one Usenet site run by and for First Nations: =09=09alt.native =C9=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=BB =BA stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal = =BA =BA + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + = =BA =BA more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin = =BA =BA to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assemb= ly =BA =BA deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 = =BA =CC=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=B9 =BA Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = =BA =BA http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html = =BA =C8=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD=CD= =CD=CD=BC
[PEN-L:408] Dialectic Immaterialism
On Fri, 8 Sep 1995, James Devine wrote: > I don't know how substantial this issue is, but as far as I can > tell, there are 5 different meanings of "dialectics": It was very important for someone here to at least try to put such complex, mind-bending confusion into some kind of order, no matter how crude (it's a joke, Jim!) IMO. I think discussion here, and on the Marxism List (where this thread really belongs) would do well to make a note of these `5 meanings' and refer back to them when issues around Dialectics get confusing... Perhaps they can be a nucleus for a definition of Dialectics in the (hopefully) future Marxism FAQ... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm -- Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assembly deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 ------ Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:392] Re: FW: BLS Daily Report, Sept. 5 and 6
On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, James Devine wrote: > >>U.S. has bought into the so-called free trade system hook, > line, and sinker.<< > > As Cardenas of Mexico puts it: there's no such thing as free > trade. Someone pays for it. I don't know if anyone has ever put it quite this way (it's a natural tho'), but I once came up with: "Free Trade' is to macroeconomics as `Free Lunch' is to micro..." Used it as a tagline in the Fidonet... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm -- Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assembly deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 ------ Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:372] Re: Microsoft Monopoly
On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Fikret Ceyhun wrote: > Switch to macintosh and promote a small company that tries to exist in > the fringes for so long, and now it faces extinction with the marketing > power of MS. I myself bought an Atari ST when it was a more advanced system than the AT box -- and saw (like tens of thousands of other Atarians) the Tramiel Family run the whole enterprise into the ground... When Apple brought Scully onboard it was bad enuff; when Scully *FIRED* Steve Jobs (Wozniak had already seen the writing on the wall) -- THAT was when *I* wrote off Apple too. Now that the rat Scully has deserted Apple -- after making NUMEROUS bad decisions -- Apple is sinking. I see no reason to support what has become just another computer company; I _do_ want to see a standard box and operating system (though I wish MicroShit, Untel and ICBM weren't the ones defining those standards...) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm -- Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assembly deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 ------ Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:371] RE: Microsoft Monopoly
On Wed, 6 Sep 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > It seems to me that you, and perhaps Microsoft, are > assuming that people with 286 and 386/486 without much memory > or hard drive space will upgrade their PCs to accomodate Windows > 95. Without this very key and perhaps incorrect assumption, it > seems to me that upgrading windows 3.1 to 3.2 would be an excellent > opportunity for Microsoft to increase its profit base. Hey, it's not ME who's putzing around here -- I've always wanted to run Windoze on a 286 with 2 Megs..! Since your above surmising has not come to pass (nor will it apparently ever), I put it to you that MicroShaft is _indeed_ following this strategy. Not only that, but since the more powerful Windows NT needs even MORE memory, the case is easily made that MicroSloth is trying to pull users such as yourself in that very direction with an intermediary product: Windoze 95. (`Cairo' is on the horizon...) > Since a Windows 3.2 version would presumable to include all > the bells and wistles available in Windows 95, I truly wonder > how big of a competitor it would be. It seems that people who > are going to have a large interest in Windows 95 at least to begin > with are those who feel they "need" to be on the technological edge... > whatever that means. MicroShill shows every indication of letting WIN3.1/3.11 users stew in their juices till they finally give-up and shell-out for the WIN95 upgrade... If that means a hardware upgrade -- well, so be it... > I will be curious to hear what Jim and others have to say > about this potential alternative to Jim's initial hypothesis. Potential, but not actual in _this_ dimensional universe..! :> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm -- Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assembly deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 ------ Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:181] Re: IMF REPORT ON MEXICO
On Wed, 23 Aug 1995, David Barkin wrote: > /* Written 6:50 AM Aug 23, 1995 by dbarkin in igc:bitl.pen */ > /* -- "IMF REPORT ON MEXICO" -- */ > Elaine Bernard reported that a news item appeared in various regional > newspapers BUT not in NY Times or WSJ about the recent report of IMF > on Mexico. Apparently, it is very critical of route of extreme privatization > and calls for some public sector safeguards (sic?!)) > > Does anyone have more details and/or know how to get that report? I don't know if you're asking in general or not, but for everyone: If you have access to the WWW (Web), you can reach the IMF at: (might not be working yet) http://www.imf.org/ or gopher://gopher.imf.org/ and you can even reach the World Bank at: http://www.worldbank.org/ These links lead to MANY other economics sources... If you can't access the WWW, you can reach the IMF and World Bank at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]and [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ordering only?) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal + if you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig + more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm -- Those who would give up essential Liberty, Benjamin Franklin to purchase a little temporary Safety, Pennsylvania Assembly deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Nov. 11, 1755 ---------- Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:99] re: waterworld
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > These kinds of movies adopt a class/racial reality, and provide a role for > 'good' white men to lead the masses to victory of some sort. To me this is a > twentieth century version of something like the British bringing 'peace' to > India, or the Europeans bringing civilization and religion to native peoples > . maggie coleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good point. I've been struggling with the CONTRAdiction of rightwinger Schwartzenegger playing the revolutionary robot in movies like T2. I think your comments help resolve this in my mind... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:98] re: waterworld
On Wed, 2 Aug 1995, Michael Perelman wrote: > The producers of Burn showed it to the Panthers to get their evaluation at > the time. Now I suppose that one should first check things out with the > NRA or the bond market. Hnyuk, nyuk. (Am I reading this out of thread-order? Were people actually discussing the film?) Actually, 'Burn!' is one of the few movies to actually EXCITE me (no, not that way...). I watched it with my 'company-man/pro-capitalist' brother, and it was gratifying to be able to actually SHOW him, graphically, the process of early imperialism and class conflict in an actual 'revolutionary' situation... He was QUITE impressed... *More* capitalist-leaning workers should see Burn!... I'm wondering: Where can people rent such things on video? (I've got a few addresses in the backs of some progressive rags, but it doesn't hurt to ask). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:5883] Re: productivity
On Mon, 17 Jul 1995, Doug Henwood wrote: Is the > K'ist credit system now more like the usurious-fedual one, sucking it dry, > but doing good work for the eventual transcendence of K'ism? Wouldn't it be > nicely ironic if in this age of capitalist triumphalism, they were really > celebrating the ascendency of a force - global rentier capital - that are > actually hastening the system's demise? That's been _my_ take on the New World Order... > One thing we gotta do is steal environmentalism from the rentier crowd. No > more Rockefeller Malthusianism! Speaking of the Trilateral Commission -- you musta read the May issue of 'Z' Magazine, no? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:5862] Re: query
On Fri, 14 Jul 1995, Teresa Amott wrote: > The 1990 Census has detailed race data in the Social and Economic > Characteristics: United States volunme (1990-CP-2-1). You can get > occupational and industry data by gender and by race and ethnicity. I don't know how useful or accurate this information is, but apparently, 'Project Gutenberg' has U.S. census data online (etext ascii form) well back into the last century -- even into the 1600's. You can get to it by either ftp or www at Walnut Creek CDROM: ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/gutenberg or http://www.cdrom.com/pub/gutenberg With a little searching you can find the files in directories just below 'gutenberg'. Be forewarned tho': They're BIG files... There's also price data over many years, I believe. No telling what gems there are there... The Walnut Creek site is also an _excellent_ source of other files... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:5787] Re: A Non-Linear FROP Cycle
On Thu, 29 Jun 1995, Alan Freeman wrote: > The following equations generate business cycles purely from the falling > profit rate. The end result is satisfyingly catastrophic. You can plug > them into a spreadsheet (details below) or I could send mine, currently > Excel 5, as a UUencoded file which most mail programmes will extract > automatically. I was going to ask (among other questions) whether marxist ekons were using spreadsheets to do their analyses. I was thinking that NOT to be sharing Excel/Quattro Pro spreadsheets in such a forum as this would be a _BAD_ sign. I'm so glad to see that someone here is (it's the first time since I've gotten here that I've seen this done, anyway.) Now I can get to play with economic theory like the BIG guys..! :> Thanx Alan. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:5732] Re: New Journal
On Wed, 28 Jun 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Wow! What a journal! Before even it has started, it has announced to everybody > that it is *closed* to all ideas except the *party line*. What's the point of > announcing the journal? Keep it within the party. Cheers, ajit sinha Hey -- why have a diktatur of the proletariat?? Capitalists have a right to 'organize' too... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:5712] Re: "comfort women"
On Mon, 26 Jun 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The article, which appears in the current issue of the > Bulletin of Concerned Asian Scholars (26:4) is the most > comprehensive report available in English on the history of the > Japanese government's wartime system of military sexual slavery, A very excellent journal! I recommend it highly. It's great for getting around North American media self-censorship... Too bad I haven't been able to subscribe for years... :< -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:5685] Iqbal Masih
I'm not sure if someone posted the proper WWW site, but I finally found it on my own. None of the links from it seemed to work(!) -- but don't let that stop you from visiting -- we all owe it to the poor little kid... http://www.digitalrag.com/mirror/iqbal.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[PEN-L:5570] Sraffa 101
'Enlighten' me on what these 'Sraffans' are about... In the introduction to 'Ricardo, Marx, Sraffa', Ernest Mandel sez: I. Rubin, the most brilliant of the Russian Marxist economists, answered that if one does not start from the *social relations of production* that underlie commodity production, one will fail to understand why value analysis is needed. In another passage, Mandel sez: Langston sought to break free of a crippling constraint imposed on the study of value-price transformation by von Bortkiewicz type models, as generalized by later authors, if used to model a real capitalist economy: namely that they abstract from economic movement in *time*. (above emphasis mine) What he is saying, is that the 'neo-Ricardians'/Sraffans/whatever are, _RIGHT_ from the beginning of their analyses, making (at least) TWO *cardinal* mistakes: 1) They are leaving human relations out of their equations and fixating on 'the economy' as the end-all and be-all of the matter, as if it were some kind of machine existing outside of, and unnecessarily related to human activity (machina ex homo?? :). This, in my opinion is 'positivist reductionism' (proper term? :) at its best/worst... 2) Their analyses, in the best bourgeois manner, fixate on some mythological 'equilibrium' of the economy and *totally* ignore the *fundamental* fact of _change in time_. Which is, of course, one of the fundaments of DIALECTICS (not to mention reality...). Am I far off the mark??|> __________ Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW Homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> __
[PEN-L:5561] Re: language
On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, Pamela Sue Fendt wrote: > The jazz fascists of today thump the virtues of the once shunned bebop and > jazz has probably had its most regressive 15 years in all its history > (that is, if you allow the word "jazz" to stand in your way). There are > innovations along free jazz lines (Charlie Hunter Trio/ T. H. Kirk) but my > favorite innovations are in dancefloor jazz, "acid jazz", "trip hop", etc. > areas and certainly all get a deafening "That's not Jazz" from the > established community. This music is much more true to the original > history of jazz (oppressed peoples out to have a wailing good time) than > any of the Modern Jazz flavors (which suffers from either too much > intellect or too much avant garde). ...like a lot of political-economic theorizing... (This may not have too much to do with economics at this point, but it DOES have _everything_ to do with being a concrete example of dialectical development in something most(?) of us are familiar with. THAT does INDEED relate to marxist economics, and having such a common 'benchmark' could be extremely useful in future economic discussion...) I know concretely what you speak of. I went to music school for one year, and believe you me, I was COMPLETELY turned-off by the dismissive, snotty air of the jazz 'establishment' there -- every bit as elitest as any 'classical' clique (of which I was too familiar as well...) This was also connected directly with the jazz 'establishment' of the city. They were the high priests of Bebop. It was at that point that I realized that jazz was 'not where it's at', and I drifted out of music-making altogether... A shame... Now I listen to 'World Beat' and 'jazz' music on the radio... Back to Economics 101... __ Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW Homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> __
[PEN-L:5550] Re: query women in prison
On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, Doug Henwood wrote: > The Sourcebook is huge, fascinating, and free. Not too much longer, I'll bet. > To get your copy, call > 1-800-732-3277. I suppose 'furriners' like Canadians are shit out of luck, eh? ______ Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW Homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> __
[PEN-L:5548] Re: language
G. Skillman's little 'article' on mathematics in economics was about the clearest bit of writing I've seen here, or in the Marxism List yet (being a newcomer could have something to so with that). That others could be so focused... I especially enjoyed the example of Jazz used to give an 'organic' example of dialectical development. Now we at least have a _theoretical_ basis for understanding Ornette Coleman's caucaphony (no, really, I listen to him all the time!)...! ______ Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW Homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> __
[PEN-L:5513] RE: Clinton's "balanced budget"
On Wed, 14 Jun 1995 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > If I am correct that there are no really good reasons for > balancing the budget, why cant we get this message across > to the masses? If we understand this so well and we are > educators, why are we so utterly unsuccessful in educating > the general populus about this basic understanding? Please > enlighten me. Because the capitalists don't allow us access to their mass media? ______ Jim Jaszewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WWW Homepage: <http://www.freenet.hamilton.on.ca/~ab975/Profile.html> __
[PEN-L:5454] Re: whither pen-l?
On Sat, 10 Jun 1995, Doug Henwood wrote: > Part of what the deficit discussion is a sorting out of "progressive > economists'" relation to Keynes. With Marx very un-chic, many progressives > - or, as Alex Cockburn says, pwogwessives - have embraced JMK as an > acceptable alternative. Then they're not much in the way of 'progressive', are they?? Which Keynes - the conservative or the radical, the > Bastard or the Legitimate Original the Post(-)Keynesians claim to have > rescued - isn't clear. Is this a promising thing, or a sign of weakness and > desperation? Wadda YOU think???;> Are progressive economists, or pwogwessive economists (uh-oh, > am I guilty of speechism?), doing anyone a favor by trying to hide, retreat > from, or sugar coat their radical roots? Is radical uncertainty something > one can build an intellectual and political movement on? I think you answer your own question...
