Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[stepharo]

I encourage people to provide correct project descriptions.


I updated a couple of my configs.


Good reaction!

Stef



cheers,
Esteban



Sincerely,
Gour

--
In the material world, one who is unaffected by whatever good
or evil he may obtain, neither praising it nor despising it,
is firmly fixed in perfect knowledge.

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Alexandre Bergel]

I did the same
-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.



> On Jan 5, 2016, at 4:00 PM, stepharo  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I updated a couple of my configs.
> 
> Good reaction!

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

> On 04 Jan 2016, at 12:07, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 04 Jan 2016, at 11:23, Saša Janiška  wrote:
>> 
>> On Ned, 2016-01-03 at 12:49 +0100, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
>> 
>>> you have it:
>>> 
>>> http://catalog.pharo.org
>> 
>> That's nice, but there are, imho, too many pkgs with "No description
>> provided", so maybe that should be made as mandatory?
> 
> it is mandatory… but people does not provide them, and we could reject the 
> projects, but then they will be irremediable lost. 
> So we took the “least pain” path. 
> 
> I encourage people to provide correct project descriptions.

I updated a couple of my configs.

> cheers, 
> Esteban
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> Gour
>> 
>> -- 
>> In the material world, one who is unaffected by whatever good 
>> or evil he may obtain, neither praising it nor despising it, 
>> is firmly fixed in perfect knowledge.

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Saša Janiška]

On Ned, 2016-01-03 at 12:49 +0100, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

> you have it:
> 
> http://catalog.pharo.org

That's nice, but there are, imho, too many pkgs with "No description
provided", so maybe that should be made as mandatory?


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
In the material world, one who is unaffected by whatever good 
or evil he may obtain, neither praising it nor despising it, 
is firmly fixed in perfect knowledge.

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 04 Jan 2016, at 11:23, Saša Janiška  wrote:
> 
> On Ned, 2016-01-03 at 12:49 +0100, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
> 
>> you have it:
>> 
>> http://catalog.pharo.org
> 
> That's nice, but there are, imho, too many pkgs with "No description
> provided", so maybe that should be made as mandatory?

it is mandatory… but people does not provide them, and we could reject the 
projects, but then they will be irremediable lost. 
So we took the “least pain” path. 

I encourage people to provide correct project descriptions.

cheers, 
Esteban

> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Gour
> 
> -- 
> In the material world, one who is unaffected by whatever good 
> or evil he may obtain, neither praising it nor despising it, 
> is firmly fixed in perfect knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[John Pfersich]

> On Jan 4, 2016, at 02:23, Saša Janiška  wrote:
> 
>> On Ned, 2016-01-03 at 12:49 +0100, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
>> 
>> you have it:
>> 
>> http://catalog.pharo.org
> 
> That's nice, but there are, imho, too many pkgs with "No description
> provided", so maybe that should be made as mandatory?
> 

And many of the descriptions there aren't terribly descriptive.

> 
> Sincerely,
> Gour
> 
> -- 
> In the material world, one who is unaffected by whatever good 
> or evil he may obtain, neither praising it nor despising it, 
> is firmly fixed in perfect knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[stepharo]

http://catalog.pharo.org

configuration browser was not good enough so we replaced it in Pharo 
5 (packages can be used in older versions, and they are listed in the 
catalog web page).

but again… no tool can survive if people does not contribute.

Esteban



You should add a link to catalog.pharo.org  
on the documentation page on Pharo.org . I find it 
is a very useful tool.


I had it in the past and I readd it now ;(

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[stepharo]

And many of the descriptions there aren't terribly descriptive.

If people do not value their work we cannot do more than what we are 
doing sadly


Stef

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[John Pfersich]

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 3, 2016, at 03:49, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 03 Jan 2016, at 10:11, John Pfersich  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
 On Jan 2, 2016, at 23:57, Saša Janiška  wrote:
 
 On Sub, 2016-01-02 at 23:27 +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
 
 there is an an SQlite wrapper for pharo
>>> 
>>> I know about it.
>>> 
>>> However it would be nice to have some categorized catalog of the
>>> packages available for Pharo?
>> 
>> +1
>> I find that I just browse the Configuration Browser to see what's out there 
>> and then google the name to see if I can find any documentation.
> 
> you have it:
> 
> http://catalog.pharo.org
> 
> configuration browser was not good enough so we replaced it in Pharo 5 
> (packages can be used in older versions, and they are listed in the catalog 
> web page). 
> but again… no tool can survive if people does not contribute. 
> 
> Esteban
> 

You should add a link to catalog.pharo.org on the documentation page on 
Pharo.org. I find it is a very useful tool.

>> 
>> And it would be nice to have a wiki like Squeak's.
>> 
 the screenshot you shared as Tudor said can be accomplished via
 Roassal and Morphic.
>>> 
>>> Now, I'm really a bit puzzled about Roassal' capabilities. :-)
>>> 
 Personally I find the whole performance question kinda irrelevant
 because if you really want to squeeze the most performance code those
 parts in C and call them from Pharo via its FFI. Not even Julia will
 able to outperform that since itself relies on C code for performance
 and its quite restrictive how you use its dynamic types to achieve
 high performance.
>>> 
>>> Well, the point is that e.g. I know people who tried to do similar apps
>>> in Python and it was too slow, they abandoned it and went to C++.
>>> 
>>> That's the reason why I was primarily exploring statically-compiled
>>> languages. Julia *might* be interesting since it is higher-level
>>> language with fantastic, close to C performance when one helps compiler
>>> by annotating data types.
>>> 
>>> In short, I want to avoid fiddling with low-level languages, otherwise
>>> it would be simple to just use C/GTK or C++/Qt. (Java could probably
>>> also do the job, but I simply do not like it.)
>>> 
>>> For the most critical part of the application, I anyway plan to use 3rd
>>> party C lib which does calculate planetary ephemeris, but for the custom
>>> libs using it, I want to use higher-level and type-safer language.
>>> 
 In any case there are always 3 rules, profile, profile and profile.
 When it comes to performance assume nothing. In the vast majority of
 cases Pharo JIT VM should be more than enough.
>>> 
>>> Let me see...
>>> 
 And if all you want to do is a business app I dont even know why you
 worry about performance. Business apps they are very low demand on
 performance.
>>> 
>>> When I say 'business' app, it is most in the sense of typical 'desktop
>>> outlook', while the app itself is falling more into 'science' app, but
>>> it depends how one sees astronomy/astrology. :-)
>>> 
 Pharo libraries dont get irrelevant because the language is so simple
 it barely changes and the changes usually dont brake compatibility.  
>>> 
>>> Pharo's simplicity of the language is huge 'pro'. ;)
>>> 
 Pharo can do REPL via the playground, the whole deal is that is a lot
 more than that.  
>>> 
>>> Right, it's just that Julia provides more 'traditional' dev work-flow,
>>> while with Pharo one has to unwrap one's head a bit. :-)
>>> 
 GUI wise you can do some pretty awesome stuff with morphic.
>>> 
>>> That I still have to learn...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Gour
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> A person is said to be elevated in yoga when, having renounced 
>>> all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification 
>>> nor engages in fruitive activities.
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[John Pfersich]

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 2, 2016, at 23:57, Saša Janiška  wrote:
> 
>> On Sub, 2016-01-02 at 23:27 +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>> 
>> there is an an SQlite wrapper for pharo 
> 
> I know about it.
> 
> However it would be nice to have some categorized catalog of the
> packages available for Pharo?
> 

+1
I find that I just browse the Configuration Browser to see what's out there and 
then google the name to see if I can find any documentation. 

And it would be nice to have a wiki like Squeak's.

>> the screenshot you shared as Tudor said can be accomplished via
>> Roassal and Morphic. 
> 
> Now, I'm really a bit puzzled about Roassal' capabilities. :-)
> 
>> Personally I find the whole performance question kinda irrelevant
>> because if you really want to squeeze the most performance code those
>> parts in C and call them from Pharo via its FFI. Not even Julia will
>> able to outperform that since itself relies on C code for performance
>> and its quite restrictive how you use its dynamic types to achieve
>> high performance. 
> 
> Well, the point is that e.g. I know people who tried to do similar apps
> in Python and it was too slow, they abandoned it and went to C++.
> 
> That's the reason why I was primarily exploring statically-compiled
> languages. Julia *might* be interesting since it is higher-level
> language with fantastic, close to C performance when one helps compiler
> by annotating data types.
> 
> In short, I want to avoid fiddling with low-level languages, otherwise
> it would be simple to just use C/GTK or C++/Qt. (Java could probably
> also do the job, but I simply do not like it.)
> 
> For the most critical part of the application, I anyway plan to use 3rd
> party C lib which does calculate planetary ephemeris, but for the custom
> libs using it, I want to use higher-level and type-safer language.
> 
>> In any case there are always 3 rules, profile, profile and profile.
>> When it comes to performance assume nothing. In the vast majority of
>> cases Pharo JIT VM should be more than enough. 
> 
> Let me see...
> 
>> And if all you want to do is a business app I dont even know why you
>> worry about performance. Business apps they are very low demand on
>> performance. 
> 
> When I say 'business' app, it is most in the sense of typical 'desktop
> outlook', while the app itself is falling more into 'science' app, but
> it depends how one sees astronomy/astrology. :-)
> 
>> Pharo libraries dont get irrelevant because the language is so simple
>> it barely changes and the changes usually dont brake compatibility.  
> 
> Pharo's simplicity of the language is huge 'pro'. ;)
> 
>> Pharo can do REPL via the playground, the whole deal is that is a lot
>> more than that.  
> 
> Right, it's just that Julia provides more 'traditional' dev work-flow,
> while with Pharo one has to unwrap one's head a bit. :-)
> 
>> GUI wise you can do some pretty awesome stuff with morphic. 
> 
> That I still have to learn...
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Gour
> 
> -- 
> A person is said to be elevated in yoga when, having renounced 
> all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification 
> nor engages in fruitive activities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Dimitris Chloupis]

+1

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 12:32 PM stepharo  wrote:

>
>
> Le 2/1/16 22:51, Saša Janiška a écrit :
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm looking how to build GUI app with Pharo and today found out
> > screenshot of Lawsuit Tracker (http://smallworks.eu/web/projects/lawsuit
> > Tracker) which very much resembles 'typical' desktop/business
> > application. The web site says: "It is made using Pharo, Glamour,
> > Magritte and MongoDB." and in my case I'd replace MongoDB with Sqlite3,
> > have need for more grpahical output - something like:
> >
> > http://saravali.de/screenshots.html
> >
> > but wonder about other components and whether they (Glamour/Magritte)
> > are still relevant *today* ?
>
> Yes Synectique is building a lot of interfce with Glamour.
> Yes Magritte is relevant now the Morphic binding may not work.
>
> What I can tell you is that Pharo is **really** productive.
> I suggest you to jump and get the feel for real.
> Then do an analysis of pro and cons.
> Doing that in the air is just doing it in the air.
> >
> > Otoh, today I was re-reading some stuff about Julia language which looks
> > as fine langauge, but it does not fit on one psotcard, although it
> > provides more "classical" way of developing: editor+REPL along with
> > Gtk(.jl) bindings.
> >
> > The language does perform very well, iow. it's quite fast which is good
> > for my project, but it's a bit cumbersome since there is no support to
> > compile end application, while it looks that Pharo has advantage here
> > providing smoother way of deployment (multi-platform wise).
> >
> > Any hint?
> >
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Saša Janiška]

On Ned, 2016-01-03 at 09:52 +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:

> I am considering making such a tool, I call it "Tartara" and it was
> always in my mind because my project Ephestos is a collections of
> tools and I wanted package manager that was more sophisticated than
> Catalog Browser.

That would be great!

> Roassal is a well design vector graphics API that specializes in data
> visualisation. 

I'm still not sure whether it can help me with my needs.

> The only reason to go C++ is that you want from the first till thelast 
> millisecond of your application to have super performance, but if you want to 
> go nuclear performance then languages like CUDA and OpenCL that take 
> advantage of GPUs superior parallelism 

I believe we do not need such stellar performance.

> Also tools like cython that offer very close to python
> syntax can even outperform C/C++ mainly because of the optimizations
> that VM is doing and the ability to Cython to produce optimised C
> code. 

I was considering Cython in the past, but wanted something better than
Python...

> Absolutely and I wont lie to you this definetly increase the learning
> curve, but frankly it worths it because you come to realize that the
> traditional way is actually weird and not a very "natural" way of
> thinking.  

I agree...moreover simplicity of the language is huge factor since it's
supposed to be hobby project and I want to have some fun while working
on it.

> But that takes time to get used to , however if you are
> interested in such approach I promise you will love pharo. 

Maybe, as first step I should try to play with NB-FFI to check how
working of C lib does work with Pharo...then I can work on providing
higher-level API for it and write some Pharo packages on top of it.

> well astrology is not science, astronomy is. 

Heh, that's only for uninitiated. ;)

See: http://shyamasundaradasa.com/jyotish/resources/articles/cartoons.ht
ml

-- 
It is far better to discharge one's prescribed duties, even though 
faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in the course 
of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, 
for to follow another's path is dangerous.

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Esteban Lorenzano]

well, correct link is: http://smallworks.eu/web/projects/lawsuitTracker 


I made that app in one month work (just before coming to work in pharo). 

in one month I managed to: 

- create Voyage (there was nothing before, and MongoTalk driver was just an 
experiment not really finished… so I needed to finish also the driver… for 
putting an example reading was so slow that after a couple of tweaks a managed 
to transform a 1s query into a 10ms query… just to give you a hint)
- tweak glamour to provide better user interactions (often mixing 
glamour+magritte+glamour inside magritte+more magritte… :)
- wrap a PDF library (bah, finish a wrapper that already existed, in fact), and 
a generic “report tool” who of course use magritte
- create a custom query language “lawyer apt” (they don’t know about sql or 
databases :P) using petit parser 
- and learn how to close the image, so an user can have a desktop app without 
seeing a debugger or a class browser if something happened (errors where 
directly reported by me using fuel, in the first iteration mariano made, when 
he was still doing his phd and fuel was still an experimental tool)

the application is still in use (by 20+ lawyers in two offices of the same law 
firm) and they just call me one time in 5 years, and that was because they 
screw the mongodb installation, not a problem of the application.

Can I say I’m pretty proud of that thingy? :)

The main point is that using anything else (I worked in “java world” for 12 
years before jumping to Pharo, so I know very well what I’m talking about) I 
would take no less than 4 months on doing the same… using Pharo and their 
libraries I managed to do it in one month AND to create something valuable for 
the community. 

I would say both glamour and magritte are still fundamental if you want to 
provide a desktop application… even if you have to spend time learning them.

Now, about performance, that’s something always annoys me: people believing 
this will have a problem before actually having it… people believing they will 
need numbers they do not need. 
A language like squeak was very capable of having croquet, and a company like 
this one http://www.3dicc.com  use them to build virtual 
words and they are very successful. True, they are not second life, and they 
have some escalation issues, but they manage it pretty well… 
Even high availability games like eveonline are made using python (and not the 
scripting parts, the full game) and they are capable to handle battles of 3k 
users in a single instance… 

You think you need better performance than them? Most probably not… but even if 
you need it, I think you are missing the path: you use Pharo and if it happens 
performance is not enough, then you profile and optimise, probably using some 
external library: we have FFI and if that is not enough you can always do your 
own plugins… at the end, that’s what those guys do :)

I think is a lot more efficient (and agile) way to create an application… in 
the worst case, you can spend the time you save using Pharo on optimising your 
solution interfacing with C or whatever. At the end, you will have an 
application that is a lot more maintainable than using C or C++ as main 
language. 

cheers,
Esteban


> On 02 Jan 2016, at 22:51, Saša Janiška  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking how to build GUI app with Pharo and today found out
> screenshot of Lawsuit Tracker (http://smallworks.eu/web/projects/lawsuit
> Tracker) which very much resembles 'typical' desktop/business
> application. The web site says: "It is made using Pharo, Glamour,
> Magritte and MongoDB." and in my case I'd replace MongoDB with Sqlite3,
> have need for more grpahical output - something like:
> 
> http://saravali.de/screenshots.html
> 
> but wonder about other components and whether they (Glamour/Magritte)
> are still relevant *today* ?
> 
> Otoh, today I was re-reading some stuff about Julia language which looks
> as fine langauge, but it does not fit on one psotcard, although it
> provides more "classical" way of developing: editor+REPL along with
> Gtk(.jl) bindings.
> 
> The language does perform very well, iow. it's quite fast which is good
> for my project, but it's a bit cumbersome since there is no support to
> compile end application, while it looks that Pharo has advantage here
> providing smoother way of deployment (multi-platform wise).
> 
> Any hint?
> 
> -- 
> Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners, 
> when you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge 
> you will be able to cross over the ocean of miseries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 03 Jan 2016, at 08:57, Saša Janiška  wrote:
> 
> On Sub, 2016-01-02 at 23:27 +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> 
>> there is an an SQlite wrapper for pharo 
> 
> I know about it.
> 
> However it would be nice to have some categorized catalog of the
> packages available for Pharo?
> 
> 
>> the screenshot you shared as Tudor said can be accomplished via
>> Roassal and Morphic. 
> 
> Now, I'm really a bit puzzled about Roassal' capabilities. :-)
> 
>> Personally I find the whole performance question kinda irrelevant
>> because if you really want to squeeze the most performance code those
>> parts in C and call them from Pharo via its FFI. Not even Julia will
>> able to outperform that since itself relies on C code for performance
>> and its quite restrictive how you use its dynamic types to achieve
>> high performance. 
> 
> Well, the point is that e.g. I know people who tried to do similar apps
> in Python and it was too slow, they abandoned it and went to C++.

for me, that just means they are bad python programmers (and most probably they 
will not do a good job on C++ either)… this thing about performance is a really 
stablished prejudice… but most of the time not true. 
IMO what you need to do is to build your app and optimise *if needed*, by 
interfacing with low level/more performant libraries. 

Esteban


> 
> That's the reason why I was primarily exploring statically-compiled
> languages. Julia *might* be interesting since it is higher-level
> language with fantastic, close to C performance when one helps compiler
> by annotating data types.
> 
> In short, I want to avoid fiddling with low-level languages, otherwise
> it would be simple to just use C/GTK or C++/Qt. (Java could probably
> also do the job, but I simply do not like it.)
> 
> For the most critical part of the application, I anyway plan to use 3rd
> party C lib which does calculate planetary ephemeris, but for the custom
> libs using it, I want to use higher-level and type-safer language.
> 
>> In any case there are always 3 rules, profile, profile and profile.
>> When it comes to performance assume nothing. In the vast majority of
>> cases Pharo JIT VM should be more than enough. 
> 
> Let me see...
> 
>> And if all you want to do is a business app I dont even know why you
>> worry about performance. Business apps they are very low demand on
>> performance. 
> 
> When I say 'business' app, it is most in the sense of typical 'desktop
> outlook', while the app itself is falling more into 'science' app, but
> it depends how one sees astronomy/astrology. :-)
> 
>> Pharo libraries dont get irrelevant because the language is so simple
>> it barely changes and the changes usually dont brake compatibility.  
> 
> Pharo's simplicity of the language is huge 'pro'. ;)
> 
>> Pharo can do REPL via the playground, the whole deal is that is a lot
>> more than that.  
> 
> Right, it's just that Julia provides more 'traditional' dev work-flow,
> while with Pharo one has to unwrap one's head a bit. :-)
> 
>> GUI wise you can do some pretty awesome stuff with morphic. 
> 
> That I still have to learn...
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Gour
> 
> -- 
> A person is said to be elevated in yoga when, having renounced 
> all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification 
> nor engages in fruitive activities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 03 Jan 2016, at 10:11, John Pfersich  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 23:57, Saša Janiška  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sub, 2016-01-02 at 23:27 +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>>> 
>>> there is an an SQlite wrapper for pharo 
>> 
>> I know about it.
>> 
>> However it would be nice to have some categorized catalog of the
>> packages available for Pharo?
>> 
> 
> +1
> I find that I just browse the Configuration Browser to see what's out there 
> and then google the name to see if I can find any documentation. 

you have it:

http://catalog.pharo.org 

configuration browser was not good enough so we replaced it in Pharo 5 
(packages can be used in older versions, and they are listed in the catalog web 
page). 
but again… no tool can survive if people does not contribute. 

Esteban

> 
> And it would be nice to have a wiki like Squeak's.
> 
>>> the screenshot you shared as Tudor said can be accomplished via
>>> Roassal and Morphic. 
>> 
>> Now, I'm really a bit puzzled about Roassal' capabilities. :-)
>> 
>>> Personally I find the whole performance question kinda irrelevant
>>> because if you really want to squeeze the most performance code those
>>> parts in C and call them from Pharo via its FFI. Not even Julia will
>>> able to outperform that since itself relies on C code for performance
>>> and its quite restrictive how you use its dynamic types to achieve
>>> high performance. 
>> 
>> Well, the point is that e.g. I know people who tried to do similar apps
>> in Python and it was too slow, they abandoned it and went to C++.
>> 
>> That's the reason why I was primarily exploring statically-compiled
>> languages. Julia *might* be interesting since it is higher-level
>> language with fantastic, close to C performance when one helps compiler
>> by annotating data types.
>> 
>> In short, I want to avoid fiddling with low-level languages, otherwise
>> it would be simple to just use C/GTK or C++/Qt. (Java could probably
>> also do the job, but I simply do not like it.)
>> 
>> For the most critical part of the application, I anyway plan to use 3rd
>> party C lib which does calculate planetary ephemeris, but for the custom
>> libs using it, I want to use higher-level and type-safer language.
>> 
>>> In any case there are always 3 rules, profile, profile and profile.
>>> When it comes to performance assume nothing. In the vast majority of
>>> cases Pharo JIT VM should be more than enough. 
>> 
>> Let me see...
>> 
>>> And if all you want to do is a business app I dont even know why you
>>> worry about performance. Business apps they are very low demand on
>>> performance. 
>> 
>> When I say 'business' app, it is most in the sense of typical 'desktop
>> outlook', while the app itself is falling more into 'science' app, but
>> it depends how one sees astronomy/astrology. :-)
>> 
>>> Pharo libraries dont get irrelevant because the language is so simple
>>> it barely changes and the changes usually dont brake compatibility.  
>> 
>> Pharo's simplicity of the language is huge 'pro'. ;)
>> 
>>> Pharo can do REPL via the playground, the whole deal is that is a lot
>>> more than that.  
>> 
>> Right, it's just that Julia provides more 'traditional' dev work-flow,
>> while with Pharo one has to unwrap one's head a bit. :-)
>> 
>>> GUI wise you can do some pretty awesome stuff with morphic. 
>> 
>> That I still have to learn...
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> Gour
>> 
>> -- 
>> A person is said to be elevated in yoga when, having renounced 
>> all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification 
>> nor engages in fruitive activities.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Dimitris Chloupis]

"
I know about it.

However it would be nice to have some categorized catalog of the
packages available for Pharo?"

I am considering making such a tool, I call it "Tartara" and it was always
in my mind because my project Ephestos is a collections of tools and I
wanted package manager that was more sophisticated than Catalog Browser.

"Now, I'm really a bit puzzled about Roassal' capabilities. :-)"

Roassal is a well design vector graphics API that specializes in data
visualisation.

"Well, the point is that e.g. I know people who tried to do similar apps
in Python and it was too slow, they abandoned it and went to C++.

That's the reason why I was primarily exploring statically-compiled
languages. Julia *might* be interesting since it is higher-level
language with fantastic, close to C performance when one helps compiler
by annotating data types.

In short, I want to avoid fiddling with low-level languages, otherwise
it would be simple to just use C/GTK or C++/Qt. (Java could probably
also do the job, but I simply do not like it.)

For the most critical part of the application, I anyway plan to use 3rd
party C lib which does calculate planetary ephemeris, but for the custom
libs using it, I want to use higher-level and type-safer language."

The only reason to go C++ is that you want from the first till the last
millisecond of your application to have super performance, but if you want
to go nuclear performance then languages like CUDA and OpenCL that take
advantage of GPUs superior parallelism , provided you do the same
calculation over myriads of instances of DATA, will give you easily from
3-100 times faster than C/C++ code execution. So that means you can use
something like pyCuda to easily outperform C++. Also tools like cython that
offer very close to python syntax can even outperform C/C++ mainly because
of the optimizations that VM is doing and the ability to Cython to produce
optimised C code.

The reality is that pure C++ project become rarer and rarer , for example I
use Blender, its 1.4 million lines of code, python is around 13%  and if we
turn it to equivalent C lines of code it must be around 25% and I suspect
another 30% is Cuda / OpenCL, and we talking here about super performance
3d application. Still only 50% is built in C/C++/ObjC.

https://www.openhub.net/p?ref=homepage=blender

In the end its easy to port parts that are not fast to C and call them from
Pharo. I remember also that there was a library to use OpenCL from Pharo
too. So speed wise you are covered. Pharo even has something similar to
cython called Slang that is used to create the Pharo VM.

"Right, it's just that Julia provides more 'traditional' dev work-flow,
while with Pharo one has to unwrap one's head a bit. :-)"

Absolutely and I wont lie to you this definetly increase the learning
curve, but frankly it worths it because you come to realize that the
traditional way is actually weird and not a very "natural" way of thinking.
If C++ is high level, python is higher level then Pharo is highest level
language. It maps to the brain completely ignoring the machine
architecture. But that takes time to get used to , however if you are
interested in such approach I promise you will love pharo.

"When I say 'business' app, it is most in the sense of typical 'desktop
outlook', while the app itself is falling more into 'science' app, but
it depends how one sees astronomy/astrology. :-)"

well astrology is not science, astronomy is. An example of a pharo
astronomy app is here

http://astares.blogspot.gr/2014/04/astrocloud-using-pharo-smalltalk-and.html

take also a look at this

http://forum.world.st/Pharo-and-Astronomy-tp3027615p3042834.html

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 11:12 AM John Pfersich  wrote:

>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jan 2, 2016, at 23:57, Saša Janiška  wrote:
> >
> >> On Sub, 2016-01-02 at 23:27 +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> >>
> >> there is an an SQlite wrapper for pharo
> >
> > I know about it.
> >
> > However it would be nice to have some categorized catalog of the
> > packages available for Pharo?
> >
>
> +1
> I find that I just browse the Configuration Browser to see what's out
> there and then google the name to see if I can find any documentation.
>
> And it would be nice to have a wiki like Squeak's.
>
> >> the screenshot you shared as Tudor said can be accomplished via
> >> Roassal and Morphic.
> >
> > Now, I'm really a bit puzzled about Roassal' capabilities. :-)
> >
> >> Personally I find the whole performance question kinda irrelevant
> >> because if you really want to squeeze the most performance code those
> >> parts in C and call them from Pharo via its FFI. Not even Julia will
> >> able to outperform that since itself relies on C code for performance
> >> and its quite restrictive how you use its dynamic types to achieve
> >> high performance.
> >
> > Well, the point is that e.g. I know people who tried to do similar apps
> > in Python and it was too slow, 

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[John Pfersich]

Cool, I haven't seen that resource yet. Thanks for the pointer. I'm currently 
getting up to speed on graph databases.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 3, 2016, at 01:54, Dimitris Chloupis  wrote:
> 
> there is no Pharo wiki too, but we have plenty of books and documentation 
> that can be found here
> 
> https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates
> 
>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 11:12 AM John Pfersich  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> > On Jan 2, 2016, at 23:57, Saša Janiška  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sub, 2016-01-02 at 23:27 +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>> >>
>> >> there is an an SQlite wrapper for pharo
>> >
>> > I know about it.
>> >
>> > However it would be nice to have some categorized catalog of the
>> > packages available for Pharo?
>> >
>> 
>> +1
>> I find that I just browse the Configuration Browser to see what's out there 
>> and then google the name to see if I can find any documentation.
>> 
>> And it would be nice to have a wiki like Squeak's.
>> 
>> >> the screenshot you shared as Tudor said can be accomplished via
>> >> Roassal and Morphic.
>> >
>> > Now, I'm really a bit puzzled about Roassal' capabilities. :-)
>> >
>> >> Personally I find the whole performance question kinda irrelevant
>> >> because if you really want to squeeze the most performance code those
>> >> parts in C and call them from Pharo via its FFI. Not even Julia will
>> >> able to outperform that since itself relies on C code for performance
>> >> and its quite restrictive how you use its dynamic types to achieve
>> >> high performance.
>> >
>> > Well, the point is that e.g. I know people who tried to do similar apps
>> > in Python and it was too slow, they abandoned it and went to C++.
>> >
>> > That's the reason why I was primarily exploring statically-compiled
>> > languages. Julia *might* be interesting since it is higher-level
>> > language with fantastic, close to C performance when one helps compiler
>> > by annotating data types.
>> >
>> > In short, I want to avoid fiddling with low-level languages, otherwise
>> > it would be simple to just use C/GTK or C++/Qt. (Java could probably
>> > also do the job, but I simply do not like it.)
>> >
>> > For the most critical part of the application, I anyway plan to use 3rd
>> > party C lib which does calculate planetary ephemeris, but for the custom
>> > libs using it, I want to use higher-level and type-safer language.
>> >
>> >> In any case there are always 3 rules, profile, profile and profile.
>> >> When it comes to performance assume nothing. In the vast majority of
>> >> cases Pharo JIT VM should be more than enough.
>> >
>> > Let me see...
>> >
>> >> And if all you want to do is a business app I dont even know why you
>> >> worry about performance. Business apps they are very low demand on
>> >> performance.
>> >
>> > When I say 'business' app, it is most in the sense of typical 'desktop
>> > outlook', while the app itself is falling more into 'science' app, but
>> > it depends how one sees astronomy/astrology. :-)
>> >
>> >> Pharo libraries dont get irrelevant because the language is so simple
>> >> it barely changes and the changes usually dont brake compatibility.
>> >
>> > Pharo's simplicity of the language is huge 'pro'. ;)
>> >
>> >> Pharo can do REPL via the playground, the whole deal is that is a lot
>> >> more than that.
>> >
>> > Right, it's just that Julia provides more 'traditional' dev work-flow,
>> > while with Pharo one has to unwrap one's head a bit. :-)
>> >
>> >> GUI wise you can do some pretty awesome stuff with morphic.
>> >
>> > That I still have to learn...
>> >
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Gour
>> >
>> > --
>> > A person is said to be elevated in yoga when, having renounced
>> > all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification
>> > nor engages in fruitive activities.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[stepharo]

Le 2/1/16 22:51, Saša Janiška a écrit :

Hello,

I'm looking how to build GUI app with Pharo and today found out
screenshot of Lawsuit Tracker (http://smallworks.eu/web/projects/lawsuit
Tracker) which very much resembles 'typical' desktop/business
application. The web site says: "It is made using Pharo, Glamour,
Magritte and MongoDB." and in my case I'd replace MongoDB with Sqlite3,
have need for more grpahical output - something like:

http://saravali.de/screenshots.html

but wonder about other components and whether they (Glamour/Magritte)
are still relevant *today* ?


Yes Synectique is building a lot of interfce with Glamour.
Yes Magritte is relevant now the Morphic binding may not work.

What I can tell you is that Pharo is **really** productive.
I suggest you to jump and get the feel for real.
Then do an analysis of pro and cons.
Doing that in the air is just doing it in the air.


Otoh, today I was re-reading some stuff about Julia language which looks
as fine langauge, but it does not fit on one psotcard, although it
provides more "classical" way of developing: editor+REPL along with
Gtk(.jl) bindings.

The language does perform very well, iow. it's quite fast which is good
for my project, but it's a bit cumbersome since there is no support to
compile end application, while it looks that Pharo has advantage here
providing smoother way of deployment (multi-platform wise).

Any hint?

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Dimitris Chloupis]

there is no Pharo wiki too, but we have plenty of books and documentation
that can be found here

https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 11:12 AM John Pfersich  wrote:

>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jan 2, 2016, at 23:57, Saša Janiška  wrote:
> >
> >> On Sub, 2016-01-02 at 23:27 +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> >>
> >> there is an an SQlite wrapper for pharo
> >
> > I know about it.
> >
> > However it would be nice to have some categorized catalog of the
> > packages available for Pharo?
> >
>
> +1
> I find that I just browse the Configuration Browser to see what's out
> there and then google the name to see if I can find any documentation.
>
> And it would be nice to have a wiki like Squeak's.
>
> >> the screenshot you shared as Tudor said can be accomplished via
> >> Roassal and Morphic.
> >
> > Now, I'm really a bit puzzled about Roassal' capabilities. :-)
> >
> >> Personally I find the whole performance question kinda irrelevant
> >> because if you really want to squeeze the most performance code those
> >> parts in C and call them from Pharo via its FFI. Not even Julia will
> >> able to outperform that since itself relies on C code for performance
> >> and its quite restrictive how you use its dynamic types to achieve
> >> high performance.
> >
> > Well, the point is that e.g. I know people who tried to do similar apps
> > in Python and it was too slow, they abandoned it and went to C++.
> >
> > That's the reason why I was primarily exploring statically-compiled
> > languages. Julia *might* be interesting since it is higher-level
> > language with fantastic, close to C performance when one helps compiler
> > by annotating data types.
> >
> > In short, I want to avoid fiddling with low-level languages, otherwise
> > it would be simple to just use C/GTK or C++/Qt. (Java could probably
> > also do the job, but I simply do not like it.)
> >
> > For the most critical part of the application, I anyway plan to use 3rd
> > party C lib which does calculate planetary ephemeris, but for the custom
> > libs using it, I want to use higher-level and type-safer language.
> >
> >> In any case there are always 3 rules, profile, profile and profile.
> >> When it comes to performance assume nothing. In the vast majority of
> >> cases Pharo JIT VM should be more than enough.
> >
> > Let me see...
> >
> >> And if all you want to do is a business app I dont even know why you
> >> worry about performance. Business apps they are very low demand on
> >> performance.
> >
> > When I say 'business' app, it is most in the sense of typical 'desktop
> > outlook', while the app itself is falling more into 'science' app, but
> > it depends how one sees astronomy/astrology. :-)
> >
> >> Pharo libraries dont get irrelevant because the language is so simple
> >> it barely changes and the changes usually dont brake compatibility.
> >
> > Pharo's simplicity of the language is huge 'pro'. ;)
> >
> >> Pharo can do REPL via the playground, the whole deal is that is a lot
> >> more than that.
> >
> > Right, it's just that Julia provides more 'traditional' dev work-flow,
> > while with Pharo one has to unwrap one's head a bit. :-)
> >
> >> GUI wise you can do some pretty awesome stuff with morphic.
> >
> > That I still have to learn...
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Gour
> >
> > --
> > A person is said to be elevated in yoga when, having renounced
> > all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification
> > nor engages in fruitive activities.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 03 Jan 2016, at 08:57, Saša Janiška  wrote:
> 
> On Sub, 2016-01-02 at 23:27 +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> 
>> there is an an SQlite wrapper for pharo 
> 
> I know about it.
> 
> However it would be nice to have some categorized catalog of the
> packages available for Pharo?

you have the catalog browser (in Pharo 5)
and this: http://catalog.pharo.org  in all the rest.

now, if people do not contribute their packages, no tool in the world will help 
you :)

(you contribute your configurations as explained here: 
http://catalog.pharo.org/catalog/note-for-developers 
)

cheers, 
Esteban


> 
> 
>> the screenshot you shared as Tudor said can be accomplished via
>> Roassal and Morphic. 
> 
> Now, I'm really a bit puzzled about Roassal' capabilities. :-)
> 
>> Personally I find the whole performance question kinda irrelevant
>> because if you really want to squeeze the most performance code those
>> parts in C and call them from Pharo via its FFI. Not even Julia will
>> able to outperform that since itself relies on C code for performance
>> and its quite restrictive how you use its dynamic types to achieve
>> high performance. 
> 
> Well, the point is that e.g. I know people who tried to do similar apps
> in Python and it was too slow, they abandoned it and went to C++.
> 
> That's the reason why I was primarily exploring statically-compiled
> languages. Julia *might* be interesting since it is higher-level
> language with fantastic, close to C performance when one helps compiler
> by annotating data types.
> 
> In short, I want to avoid fiddling with low-level languages, otherwise
> it would be simple to just use C/GTK or C++/Qt. (Java could probably
> also do the job, but I simply do not like it.)
> 
> For the most critical part of the application, I anyway plan to use 3rd
> party C lib which does calculate planetary ephemeris, but for the custom
> libs using it, I want to use higher-level and type-safer language.
> 
>> In any case there are always 3 rules, profile, profile and profile.
>> When it comes to performance assume nothing. In the vast majority of
>> cases Pharo JIT VM should be more than enough. 
> 
> Let me see...
> 
>> And if all you want to do is a business app I dont even know why you
>> worry about performance. Business apps they are very low demand on
>> performance. 
> 
> When I say 'business' app, it is most in the sense of typical 'desktop
> outlook', while the app itself is falling more into 'science' app, but
> it depends how one sees astronomy/astrology. :-)
> 
>> Pharo libraries dont get irrelevant because the language is so simple
>> it barely changes and the changes usually dont brake compatibility.  
> 
> Pharo's simplicity of the language is huge 'pro'. ;)
> 
>> Pharo can do REPL via the playground, the whole deal is that is a lot
>> more than that.  
> 
> Right, it's just that Julia provides more 'traditional' dev work-flow,
> while with Pharo one has to unwrap one's head a bit. :-)
> 
>> GUI wise you can do some pretty awesome stuff with morphic. 
> 
> That I still have to learn...
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Gour
> 
> -- 
> A person is said to be elevated in yoga when, having renounced 
> all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification 
> nor engages in fruitive activities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Dimitris Chloupis]

"Heh, that's only for uninitiated. ;)

See: http://shyamasundaradasa.com/jyotish/resources/articles/cartoons.ht
ml "

The link you provided argues that scientists take things for granted ,
which is not the case, or that scientists dont understand what electricity
is, which is also not the case and that Astronomy has not been proven wrong
again and again by science which is also not the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science

In any case you are welcomed to believe whatever you want , this is not a
philosophy mailing list, just a coding mailing list where only code matters
:)

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 1:06 PM Saša Janiška  wrote:

> On Ned, 2016-01-03 at 09:52 +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>
> > I am considering making such a tool, I call it "Tartara" and it was
> > always in my mind because my project Ephestos is a collections of
> > tools and I wanted package manager that was more sophisticated than
> > Catalog Browser.
>
> That would be great!
>
> > Roassal is a well design vector graphics API that specializes in data
> > visualisation.
>
> I'm still not sure whether it can help me with my needs.
>
> > The only reason to go C++ is that you want from the first till thelast
> millisecond of your application to have super performance, but if you want
> to go nuclear performance then languages like CUDA and OpenCL that take
> advantage of GPUs superior parallelism
>
> I believe we do not need such stellar performance.
>
> > Also tools like cython that offer very close to python
> > syntax can even outperform C/C++ mainly because of the optimizations
> > that VM is doing and the ability to Cython to produce optimised C
> > code.
>
> I was considering Cython in the past, but wanted something better than
> Python...
>
> > Absolutely and I wont lie to you this definetly increase the learning
> > curve, but frankly it worths it because you come to realize that the
> > traditional way is actually weird and not a very "natural" way of
> > thinking.
>
> I agree...moreover simplicity of the language is huge factor since it's
> supposed to be hobby project and I want to have some fun while working
> on it.
>
> > But that takes time to get used to , however if you are
> > interested in such approach I promise you will love pharo.
>
> Maybe, as first step I should try to play with NB-FFI to check how
> working of C lib does work with Pharo...then I can work on providing
> higher-level API for it and write some Pharo packages on top of it.
>
> > well astrology is not science, astronomy is.
>
> Heh, that's only for uninitiated. ;)
>
> See: http://shyamasundaradasa.com/jyotish/resources/articles/cartoons.ht
> ml 
>
> --
> It is far better to discharge one's prescribed duties, even though
> faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in the course
> of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties,
> for to follow another's path is dangerous.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Saša Janiška]

On Ned, 2016-01-03 at 11:31 +0100, stepharo wrote:

> Yes Synectique is building a lot of interfce with Glamour.
> Yes Magritte is relevant now the Morphic binding may not work.

Thank you.

> What I can tell you is that Pharo is **really** productive.
> I suggest you to jump and get the feel for real.
> Then do an analysis of pro and cons.
> Doing that in the air is just doing it in the air.

That's good advice...I'm a bit reluctant having feeling there are lot of
things to learn before really starting, e.g. with some other languages
it is very easy to provide call to C libs and explore things, while here
it seems that learning curve is steeper...but I'll jump into it.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
A person is considered still further advanced when he regards honest 
well-wishers, affectionate benefactors, the neutral, mediators, the envious, 
friends and enemies, the pious and the sinners all with an equal mind.

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas]

Hi,

On 03/01/16 08:08, Saša Janiška wrote:



What I can tell you is that Pharo is **really** productive.
I suggest you to jump and get the feel for real.
Then do an analysis of pro and cons.
Doing that in the air is just doing it in the air.

That's good advice...I'm a bit reluctant having feeling there are lot of
things to learn before really starting, e.g. with some other languages
it is very easy to provide call to C libs and explore things, while here
it seems that learning curve is steeper...but I'll jump into it.



I was in a similar place half an a year ago:

https://twitter.com/offrayLC/status/493979407011561473

This is what I'm doing today:

https://offray.withknown.com/2016/matrix-sunburst-visualization-example

So despite of the culture shock, it has been an excellent joyride! I 
have never been able to express myself and feel as creative in any other 
language/environment as with Pharo/Smalltalk.


Is a different, but valuable travel to take.

Cheers,

Offray

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Tudor Girba]

Hi,

For graphical representation, take a look at Roassal:
http://agilevisualization.com

Cheers,
Doru


> On Jan 2, 2016, at 11:51 PM, Saša Janiška  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking how to build GUI app with Pharo and today found out
> screenshot of Lawsuit Tracker (http://smallworks.eu/web/projects/lawsuit
> Tracker) which very much resembles 'typical' desktop/business
> application. The web site says: "It is made using Pharo, Glamour,
> Magritte and MongoDB." and in my case I'd replace MongoDB with Sqlite3,
> have need for more grpahical output - something like:
> 
> http://saravali.de/screenshots.html
> 
> but wonder about other components and whether they (Glamour/Magritte)
> are still relevant *today* ?
> 
> Otoh, today I was re-reading some stuff about Julia language which looks
> as fine langauge, but it does not fit on one psotcard, although it
> provides more "classical" way of developing: editor+REPL along with
> Gtk(.jl) bindings.
> 
> The language does perform very well, iow. it's quite fast which is good
> for my project, but it's a bit cumbersome since there is no support to
> compile end application, while it looks that Pharo has advantage here
> providing smoother way of deployment (multi-platform wise).
> 
> Any hint?
> 
> -- 
> Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners, 
> when you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge 
> you will be able to cross over the ocean of miseries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"One cannot do more than one can do."

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Dimitris Chloupis]

there is an an SQlite wrapper for pharo

http://forum.world.st/ANN-Updated-SQLite3-wrapper-project-based-on-NB-td4798771.html

the screenshot you shared as Tudor said can be accomplished via Roassal and
Morphic.

Personally I find the whole performance question kinda irrelevant because
if you really want to squeeze the most performance code those parts in C
and call them from Pharo via its FFI. Not even Julia will able to
outperform that since itself relies on C code for performance and its quite
restrictive how you use its dynamic types to achieve high performance.

In any case there are always 3 rules, profile, profile and profile. When it
comes to performance assume nothing. In the vast majority of cases Pharo
JIT VM should be more than enough.

And if all you want to do is a business app I dont even know why you worry
about performance. Business apps they are very low demand on performance.

Pharo libraries dont get irrelevant because the language is so simple it
barely changes and the changes usually dont brake compatibility. The only
that broke AFAIK is the image format with the new Spur VM but that should
not affect libraries.

Pharo can do REPL via the playground, the whole deal is that is a lot more
than that. GUI wise you can do some pretty awesome stuff with morphic.

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 11:53 PM Saša Janiška  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm looking how to build GUI app with Pharo and today found out
> screenshot of Lawsuit Tracker (http://smallworks.eu/web/projects/lawsuit
> Tracker) which very much resembles 'typical' desktop/business
> application. The web site says: "It is made using Pharo, Glamour,
> Magritte and MongoDB." and in my case I'd replace MongoDB with Sqlite3,
> have need for more grpahical output - something like:
>
> http://saravali.de/screenshots.html
>
> but wonder about other components and whether they (Glamour/Magritte)
> are still relevant *today* ?
>
> Otoh, today I was re-reading some stuff about Julia language which looks
> as fine langauge, but it does not fit on one psotcard, although it
> provides more "classical" way of developing: editor+REPL along with
> Gtk(.jl) bindings.
>
> The language does perform very well, iow. it's quite fast which is good
> for my project, but it's a bit cumbersome since there is no support to
> compile end application, while it looks that Pharo has advantage here
> providing smoother way of deployment (multi-platform wise).
>
> Any hint?
>
> --
> Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners,
> when you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge
> you will be able to cross over the ocean of miseries.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Saša Janiška]

On Sub, 2016-01-02 at 23:27 +, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:

> there is an an SQlite wrapper for pharo 

I know about it.

However it would be nice to have some categorized catalog of the
packages available for Pharo?


> the screenshot you shared as Tudor said can be accomplished via
> Roassal and Morphic. 

Now, I'm really a bit puzzled about Roassal' capabilities. :-)

> Personally I find the whole performance question kinda irrelevant
> because if you really want to squeeze the most performance code those
> parts in C and call them from Pharo via its FFI. Not even Julia will
> able to outperform that since itself relies on C code for performance
> and its quite restrictive how you use its dynamic types to achieve
> high performance. 

Well, the point is that e.g. I know people who tried to do similar apps
in Python and it was too slow, they abandoned it and went to C++.

That's the reason why I was primarily exploring statically-compiled
languages. Julia *might* be interesting since it is higher-level
language with fantastic, close to C performance when one helps compiler
by annotating data types.

In short, I want to avoid fiddling with low-level languages, otherwise
it would be simple to just use C/GTK or C++/Qt. (Java could probably
also do the job, but I simply do not like it.)

For the most critical part of the application, I anyway plan to use 3rd
party C lib which does calculate planetary ephemeris, but for the custom
libs using it, I want to use higher-level and type-safer language.

> In any case there are always 3 rules, profile, profile and profile.
> When it comes to performance assume nothing. In the vast majority of
> cases Pharo JIT VM should be more than enough. 

Let me see...

> And if all you want to do is a business app I dont even know why you
> worry about performance. Business apps they are very low demand on
> performance. 

When I say 'business' app, it is most in the sense of typical 'desktop
outlook', while the app itself is falling more into 'science' app, but
it depends how one sees astronomy/astrology. :-)

> Pharo libraries dont get irrelevant because the language is so simple
> it barely changes and the changes usually dont brake compatibility.  

Pharo's simplicity of the language is huge 'pro'. ;)

> Pharo can do REPL via the playground, the whole deal is that is a lot
> more than that.  

Right, it's just that Julia provides more 'traditional' dev work-flow,
while with Pharo one has to unwrap one's head a bit. :-)

> GUI wise you can do some pretty awesome stuff with morphic. 

That I still have to learn...


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
A person is said to be elevated in yoga when, having renounced 
all material desires, he neither acts for sense gratification 
nor engages in fruitive activities.

Re: [Pharo-users] Lawsuit Tracker app

[Saša Janiška]

On Ned, 2016-01-03 at 00:07 +0200, Tudor Girba wrote:

> For graphical representation, take a look at Roassal:
> http://agilevisualization.com

Thank. Have to check whether it does fit since my 'drawing' needs are a
but unusual. :-)


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the sitting places 
of this lust. Through them lust covers the real knowledge of the 
living entity and bewilders him.