[PLUG] Xlib and displaying same image twice.

[Michael Robinson]

I have a simple Xlib program that displays a PNG file without a border
or title bar on the X display.  I need to display the image dead center
on the screen and about 50-100 pixels to the right.  How do I display
the image twice and how do I control the location of the two images?
This is a Raspbian Stretch default install I'm running, not Lite.  
What window manager am I using?  Is there a way to do a black 
background and no window manager at all?  When the Pi is hooked 
to a projector, the projector should not be displaying a background
picture or anything else on the standard desktop.  The C program 
should have the mouse and keyboard locked out.  How do I return control
to X if the program crashes so I don't have to power down the Pi and
power it back up without a proper reboot?  I need to do a release on
exit or something similar.  I'm working on a demo program before I
tackle the larger program which I can't discuss in detail.  Gotta
learn how to draw in X.

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[PLUG] Xlib.

[Michael Robinson]

Hello pluggers,

I need to take a demo program that displays a PNG file via Xlib and
modify the output.  It is a C program, not C# or C++.  Has xlib been
replaced by xcb?  I'm developing this for an HDMI projector hooked 
to a Raspberry Pi 3 model B.

Preferably, I don't want to pull out cairo or any other graphical
library that is heavier than Xlib.  If I have to pull out another
tool, what should I use?

I need to remove the title bar and all areas that can be clicked on, 
the image is a target for calibration.  The program that I'm trying 
to fix ASAP uses opencv, a computer vision package.  Obviously, the
program calculates or accepts user input on where the target should
project and that has to work.  So the image can't pop up willy nilly 
on the screen the way it does in the current demo program.


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[PLUG] Raspberry Pi 2

[Michael Robinson]

Do I need a physical Raspberry Pi 2 to test software developed for
it that doesn't compile on the Raspberry Pi 3 or is there a way on
my AMD based 64 bit Fedora 26 system to emulate a Raspberry Pi 2?

Of course the proprietary software in question which I will not describe
in any detail, don't ask, apparently doesn't compile on
the 3.  The code is C code.

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[PLUG] CentOS 7 iso too big to burn...

[Michael Robinson]

The CentOS 7 iso is 7.8 gigs.  My DVD-R media tops out at about 
half that.  The server I'm trying to upgrade would have to use
an external DVD drive in order to upgrade from a DVD.

I am trying to upgrade from CentOS 6.8 to CentOS 7.3.  I want
to install CentOS 7.3 on a newly installed and unused 500 gig SSD.
So far, I have created a 10G ext2 partition at the beginning of the
new SSD and I have copied the CentOS 7.3 iso's contents to it.  I 
used a loop mount to mount the iso and then cp -av.  I am trying
to figure out how to install from a local hard drive instead of 
a DVD disk.

I have Grub 1 in CentOS 6.8, is there a way to trigger the installer
from my existing Grub on the second SSD?  Can I seamlessly upgrade 
the old CentOS 6.8 to use Grub 2 instead of Grub 1?

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[PLUG] Linux replace PS/2???

[Michael Robinson]

I have a Play station II that isn't modified.  It's the fat variety,  
not a slim one.

I've found via Newegg a USB adapter that supports the stock PS/2 controllers.

Wonderful, but how do I get PCSX2 installed on Fedora 24 and how do I  
get my saved games
from PS/2 memory cards to USB thumb drives that will work on the Linux  
machine?  What is
McBoot and why do I need it?

Is there a USB to play station II memory card Adapter for Linux?

Does anyone think that what you find on youtube about backing up play  
station II memory
cards to a PC is too complicated?

I want to recover my saved games on my 8 meg play station II memory  
card.  I don't want
to modify the play station II, at least not permanently.  Once I've  
successfully moved
from PS2 memory card to standard usb thumb drive, I can see about  
getting rid of the console
and running my games via emulation instead.


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[PLUG] Lotus 123 gone...

[Michael Robinson]

I'm migrating my father from Windows 98SE to Windows 7 32 bit edition.  
  To prepare for this, I've copied all of his Jazz disks as best I  
could to an SSD and to a slackware based file server.  I also copied  
all of his zip disks to the same fileserver and SSD.  If the Iomega  
drives have to go for Windows 7, so be it.  Lotus is no more and
there is no official version for Windows 7.  Ouch, what about his data  
that worked with Lotus 123 Release 5???

He has a bernoulli drive too, but he doesn't want to flip over to the  
slackware command line to mount and umount
bernoulli disks.  Windows 98SE doesn't support bernoulli drives  
apparently.  Working through about 38 good zip disks and 18 good Jazz  
disks was no picnic at all.  I'd like to get the bernoulli drive off  
of the file server.
Honestly, I'm questioning whether having removable media drives on his  
file server is particularly useful?

Anyone know if Libreoffice Calc will open Dad's Lotus files?  Do they  
need to be converted?
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Re: [PLUG] Net Responsibility.

[Michael Robinson]

I can't register.  The email it says it will send to me never gets sent.
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Re: [PLUG] New error in X...

[Michael Robinson]

On Sat, 2010-03-20 at 14:58 -0700, Michael Robinson wrote:
> X Error of failed request:  BadLength (poly request too large or
> internal Xlib length error)
>   Major opcode of failed request:  65 (X_PolyLine)
>   Serial number of failed request:  11
>   Current serial number in output stream:  12
> 
> I get this any time I try to run dirkdashing, RickRocket, openoffice,
> dungeons of daggorath (dod), and potentially other X programs will 
> also fail to run.  I assumed the recent kernel upgrade was to blame
> and forcibly downgraded to 2.6.18-92.el5, but that didn't help.
> I am using AMD's proprietary linux driver for my ATI HD 3450 Radeon.
> I'm wondering what else could have caused this as obviously it wasn't
> the kernel upgrade.
> 
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Surely this isn't an unusual error?  I did a series of upgrades on my
CentOS system and presto, this error pops up like clockwork.  I'm on
give up right now and I'm downloading Fedora 12.  If anyone
knows what is going on with this error, I'd like to know how I can 
fix the problem.

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[PLUG] New error in X...

[Michael Robinson]

X Error of failed request:  BadLength (poly request too large or
internal Xlib length error)
  Major opcode of failed request:  65 (X_PolyLine)
  Serial number of failed request:  11
  Current serial number in output stream:  12

I get this any time I try to run dirkdashing, RickRocket, openoffice,
dungeons of daggorath (dod), and potentially other X programs will 
also fail to run.  I assumed the recent kernel upgrade was to blame
and forcibly downgraded to 2.6.18-92.el5, but that didn't help.
I am using AMD's proprietary linux driver for my ATI HD 3450 Radeon.
I'm wondering what else could have caused this as obviously it wasn't
the kernel upgrade.

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[PLUG] Kernel trouble...

[Michael Robinson]

I am trying to compile an NFS root kernel and tag it with mkelf-linux.

The kernel version is 2.6.30.2.  I am getting an error trying to PXE
boot that the kernel image checksum does not match another checksum.

My mkelf-linux invocation is:

mkelf-linux --output=linux-2.6.30.2-nfsroot.gz --ip=dhcp bzImage

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

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[PLUG] Trouble with siliconhd homerun network tuner...

[Michael Robinson]

I can get it to work with a 2.4 Ghz P4 and 512 megs of ram on a CentOS
system no problem.  On my Windows XP 3.06 Ghz P4, 1.5 gigs of ram, I
can only get television streaming to work in an administrator account.
I used tweakxp.exe and then uninstalled it because it is only free for
30 days.  The important tweak I used this for forces Windows XP core
to run out of memory instead of swapping in and out from hard disk.
Another tweak, I set the minimum and maximum pagefile size to 1.5 gig.
Beyond that, I don't think I did any other tweaks that made any
difference.  How can I figure out quickly what the differences are
that cause performance problems in non administrative accounts?

I'm close to thinking that I'm going to have to dual boot on my Windows
machine CentOS to get things working.

When I try to stream television from the tuner in the guest account on
the XP box, at most there is 1 frame and than the picture freezes and
there is no sound.  The tweakxp.exe utility was supposed to propagate
changes to all accounts, but I guess that didn't happen.

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[PLUG] Monorail 3D audio...

[Michael Robinson]

Has anyone gotten this to work properly in Slackware 10.1?

I believe that Monorail 3D audio is OPTi931 based.  I have trouble
with oops messages on boot when the onboard sound card is enabled.
I've tried tweaking isapnp.conf to see if using IRQ 7 for the MPU-401
feature instead of 9 or 10 will work.  Still, I didn't have an
isapnp.conf last time I booted and Slackware tried to configure the
card just the same, unsuccessfully I might add.  Googling around, 
I've run into something about needing to statically, non PnP, 
configure this card.  I don't know how to do this unless there 
is a driver for freedos which is what I boot Slackware from.

Has anyone gotten Monorail built-in 3D Audio to work in Linux?

Monorail would probably still be around if the company had been smart
enough to integrate hardware that works with Linux and smart enough to
offer an LCD monitor upgrade for those who want to play Doom.  Oh well.

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Re: [PLUG] Network boot link died...

[Michael Robinson]

On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 19:33 -0800, Neal wrote:
> Um, er, when we discussed this back in December it was pointed out
> that the total cabling limit for 100BASE-CX and 1000BASE-CX (STP) is
> 82 feet. Since you're also running an additional 100' of UTP in that
> segment you're pushing your luck even without cable degradation and
> the coupler in the run.
> 
> Temporarily replace the STP cable with an above-ground substitute and
> see if that clears things up.
> 
> NealS
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If I understand the spec correctly for 100BaseTX, I should be fine.
The 90' cable is labeled as outdoor Cat 5e, though I wonder how 
long is this cable going to last?

I don't know what CX is and I'm not running a gigabit link, so the run
doesn't have to work at those speeds anyways.

Interestingly, turning off duplex and dropping the link speed to 10 mbps
stabilizes the link.  I noticed that duplex was set to full on the link
and that the link was unstable with that setting.

I suppose I can try a single run of UTP cable for the full 190'.  That
would eliminate the buried segment and the coupler as possible issues.
The first 100' of Cat 5e UTP cable could be the problem.

Trouble is, I have to bury the cable as that is the only practical way
to go.  Should I jump up to Cat 6 STP cable?  Is there a special cable
meant for direct burial that I should use?  How about burying the line
in conduit?  I've heard that UTP cable can be used if in conduit burial
is employed and moisture is kept out.

Let me assume that the limit isn't 300 meters, let's say the limit is
more like 82 feet.  Well, why didn't putting a 10/100 switch where 
the coupler is fix the can't transmit faster than 10 mbps problem?
Why was I able to buy a 100' Cat 5e UTP patch cable?

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[PLUG] Network boot link died...

[Michael Robinson]

I have 100 feet of Cat 5e UTP cable wired from my server running into 
an attic area.  After that, a crossover coupler and 90 feet of Cat5e 
STP cable follows.  The client computer has a 100 mbps Netgear Fa311,
but the server is limited to 10 mbps because I historically could not
get a stable link at 100 mbps.  Now I can't seem to get a stable link 
at even 10 mbps.  The 90' run goes outside, underground, and back
above ground into another building.  I assume that the cable is burial
grade cable, but I'm starting to wonder.  I keep getting ICMP time
exceeded packets.  Is mixing shielded and unshielded cable the 
problem?  This worked stably yesterday and it has been working for
years.  What can I tweak to deal with the timeouts or find out for
sure why the connection has gotten to be so weak?

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[PLUG] Linux from scratch...

[Michael Robinson]

I finished getting a Linux from scratch system working.

A few things missing, there is no netstat command, no ifconfig command,
and no dns/dhcp commands.

Pulled out my bash book and played a bit with the shell prompt.

I don't know how to set the hostname, so the host name comes up as
(none).

I haven't gotten my wireless logitech keyboard to work with this system,
maybe I need to add something to the kernel?

Well, I'll have to see if I can get the networking tools to fit in 100
megs or less.

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[PLUG] C question...

[Michael Robinson]

I'm trying to write a simple C program to open a text file with
temperature data in it, extract the highest, the lowest, and the
last temperature, and write that information to another text file.

How in C do I verify that the files I'm working with are text files?
Specifically since I don't allow clobbering, I'm worried about the 
input file.

I'm thinking there is a UNIX file command which I should be able 
to call from inside the C program, but is there a better way?

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[PLUG] ReactOS forum posting priviledges suspended

[Michael Robinson]

http://web.robinson-west.com/reactos.php

Apparently, asking that ReactOS be built using open source compilers and
open source tools is unacceptable behavior.  I don't buy the ReactOS
community argument that GCC is a Linux only compiler.  A first for me,
I got accused of being against the poor advocating the use of open
source build tools.

I no longer link to the ReactOS web site from my links page as I no
longer wish to recommend the project to people.  People are better off
throwing Windows out and switching to Linux, even if these people are
responsible for a company and software has to be ported.  With vendors
starting to release information for the writing of Linux drivers and
in some cases providing closed source drivers, the argument that one
needs Windows seems to be getting close to moot.

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[PLUG] GCC community and ReactOS community...

[Michael Robinson]

Is it true that the ReactOS community has made a number of requests for
functionality additions to GCC that only make sense in a Windows
environment?  Is it true that the GCC developers say no a lot to the
ReactOS developers?  Considering that talking about using an open source
compiler and open source tools to build ReactOS got me locked out of the
ReactOS forums, I will not be surprised if I find that there is little
to no respect for the ReactOS community in the GCC community.

What do people here think of the ReactOS community comment that GCC is a
Linux only compiler?  I think that is ludicrous.  Hurd and Syllable come
to mind.

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Re: [PLUG] Streaming audio with ices and icecast2...

[Michael Robinson]

Darn attachment stripping plug list...
I'm pasting the xml file contents into the body of this reply.
Unfortunately, the lines are breaking in funny places.




1


/var/log/ices


ices-alsa.log


2048


4


0


/home/icecast2/ices-alsa.pid




Radio
Radio
Radio station on Condor.
http://condor.w2.robinson-west.pri:8000/radio.ogg




alsa
44100
2
hw:0,0











192.168.4.17
8000
hackme
/radio.ogg
1 



  
0
22050
1



1


 

44100
22050






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[PLUG] Streaming audio with ices and icecast2...

[Michael Robinson]

My ices-alsa.xml file that is supposed to configure capture of audio
from line in on my SB AWE 64 ISA sound card is attached.

One thing I'm confused about are the authentication directives.

Another area of trouble is that I'm trying to run ices and icecast
via a non root user.  This works for icecast but it doesn't work for
ices when I want to use the attached xml file.

iceca...@condor:~$ ices ices-alsa.xml 
iceca...@condor:~$ cat log-ices/ices-alsa.log 
[2010-02-21  16:33:37] INFO ices-core/main IceS 2.0.1 started...
[2010-02-21  16:33:37] INFO input-alsa/alsa_open_module Opened audio
device hw:0,0
[2010-02-21  16:33:37] INFO input-alsa/alsa_open_module using 2
channel(s), 44100 Hz, buffer 371 ms 
[2010-02-21  16:33:37] INFO input-alsa/alsa_open_module Starting
metadata update thread
[2010-02-21  16:33:37] INFO signals/signal_usr1_handler Metadata update
requested
[2010-02-21  16:33:37] INFO metadata/metadata_thread_stdin Metadata
thread shutting down, tried to use stdin from background
[2010-02-21  16:33:37] INFO audio/downmix_initialise Enabling
stereo->mono downmixing
[2010-02-21  16:33:37] INFO audio/resample_initialise Initialised
resampler for 1 channels, from 44100 Hz to 22050 Hz
[2010-02-21  16:33:37] INFO encode/encode_initialise Encoder
initialising in VBR mode: 1 channel(s), 22050 Hz, quality 0.00
[2010-02-21  16:33:38] INFO stream/ices_instance_stream Connected to
server: 192.168.4.17:8000/radio.ogg
[2010-02-21  16:59:29] INFO ices-core/main IceS 2.0.1 started...
[2010-02-21  16:59:29] INFO input-alsa/alsa_open_module Opened audio
device hw:0,0
[2010-02-21  16:59:29] INFO input-alsa/alsa_open_module using 2
channel(s), 44100 Hz, buffer 371 ms 
[2010-02-21  16:59:29] INFO input-alsa/alsa_open_module Starting
metadata update thread
[2010-02-21  16:59:29] INFO signals/signal_usr1_handler Metadata update
requested
[2010-02-21  16:59:29] INFO metadata/metadata_thread_stdin Metadata
thread shutting down, tried to use stdin from background
[2010-02-21  16:59:29] INFO audio/downmix_initialise Enabling
stereo->mono downmixing
[2010-02-21  16:59:29] INFO audio/resample_initialise Initialised
resampler for 1 channels, from 44100 Hz to 22050 Hz
[2010-02-21  16:59:29] INFO encode/encode_initialise Encoder
initialising in VBR mode: 1 channel(s), 22050 Hz, quality 0.00
[2010-02-21  16:59:30] INFO stream/ices_instance_stream Connected to
server: 192.168.4.17:8000/radio.ogg
[2010-02-21  17:36:23] INFO ices-core/main IceS 2.0.1 started...
[2010-02-21  17:36:23] EROR input-alsa/alsa_open_module Failed to open
audio device hw:0,0: Permission denied
[2010-02-21  17:36:23] EROR input/input_loop Couldn't initialise input
module "alsa"
[2010-02-21  17:36:23] INFO ices-core/main Shutdown complete
iceca...@condor:~$ 

I have done a usermod -Gaudio icecast2, so I don't get the permission
denied problem.  I can run this as root where my other xml file for a
simple playlist doesn't require root.

I'm on a Slackware 10.1 system.

The home page for this software is: http://www.icecast.org/


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Re: [PLUG] GCC verses Visual Studio...

[Michael Robinson]

On Fri, 2010-02-19 at 15:59 -0800, Robert Miesen wrote:
> Based on my understanding of the Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition 
> EULA 
> ,
>  
> there shouldn't be any problem using a Visual C/C++ compiler instead of 
> GCC, so long as you have a license to do so. This is, of course, 
> assuming that neither Mozilla Firefox or ReactOS are either breaching 
> copyrights held by Microsoft or trying to claim code Microsoft wrote as 
> their own. If either of these two assumptions are false, it wouldn't 
> matter what compiler you are using; you could expect legal trouble 
> sooner or later.
> 
> The truth about Visual Studio being "free" is that it is free as in 
> beer, not as in freedom to modify Visual Studio's source code (though 
> you can write add-ins for it). What that means is that you are permitted 
> to use Visual Studio to do commercial development, so long as you are 
> either using a commercially-licensed version of Visual Studio or are 
> using an Express Edition (for more information about using the Express 
> Editions for commercial development, see 
> http://www.microsoft.com/express/Support/Support-faq.aspx and scroll 
> down to "Can I use Express Editions for commercial use"). If you are 
> using a student version, you /cannot/ use it to do commercial 
> development. But the short answer for those living and developing the 
> brave GNU world is that using Visual Studio for FOSS development is 
> perfectly legal and is really a question of personal taste, personal 
> views, and technology preferences.

What will Microsoft think of the ReactOS project trying to use Microsoft
Visual Studio Express to compile a GPL'ed Windows compatible operating
system?  Is GCC inadequate because of Microsoft's structured exception
handling?  I don't think Microsoft ever intended to hand a compiler to
people intent on bringing an end to shrink wrapped multi hundred dollar
copies of Windows.

Does the Linux Unified Kernel project use Microsoft tools?

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[PLUG] ATI Radeon HD 3450 Linux...

[Michael Robinson]

Anyone have direct experience with one of these in CentOS or Slackware?

I'm trying to download something called the catalyst driver from AMD.

I've noticed that X is too slow since I've switch from my old Radeon 
without HDMI port to this one.

Is it normal to plug in both the HDMI port and the vga port on the same
monitor?

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[PLUG] GCC verses Visual Studio...

[Michael Robinson]

Is it true that Mozilla Firefox for Windows is commonly compiled using
Microsoft's Visual Studio?  If that is the case, I suspect a legal
problem.  The ReactOS project insists on supporting Microsoft Visual C
compilation over mingw(GCC) compilation!  Two things get thrown in 
your face if you linger in the ReactOS forums for any length of time.
First thing is that GCC is supposedly crap and that MSVC is supposedly
awesome.  One reason this kind of rhetoric is stupid is that GCC is open
source and it can be fixed if it has a problem.  I think legally that
trying to compile a Windows clone and give it away for free using MSVC
to compile it is asking for litigation.

What is structured exception handling and what is the philosophy
pertaining to it as far as GCC is concerned?

Is it true that many of the "open source" projects on Sourceforge are
designed to be compiled via Microsoft Visual Studio?

What is the truth about Visual Studio being "free?"  I don't buy the
free bit and I think there is a danger in trusting Microsoft, but many
in the ReactOS community think I'm nuts for saying so.

Why is it so hard to find the Microsoft EULA for Visual Studio Express
2010?  The best I can seem to do is grab bits and pieces of old EULA's.

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[PLUG] Need to make a graph in OO Calc...

[Michael Robinson]

I have temperature values in Kelvin corresponding to vapor pressure
values in kPa's.  I need to graph natural_log(vapor pressure) as Y
and (1/temperature) for the X axis.  How do I do this in Openoffice
Calc???I should end up with a straight line, but I probably won't.

A problem is that my initial vapor pressure is 0, no ethanol in the
sealed container.  I don't think the natural_log(0) is defined.

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Re: [PLUG] HDhomerun and P4s...

[Michael Robinson]

> First, a RAM upgrade from 512MB to 1GB or more would more than likely be of
> more benefit than a slight CPU upgrade within the same CPU class (as in
> staying with P4 instead of upgrading to newer generation).
> 
> Second, you don't mention what kind of video hardware you have, a beefier
> GPU may help.

I have an AGP slot fortunately, but whether it is 4x or 8x I am not
certain.  I am using the SIS onboard video at the moment, exactly 
what it is, I'm not sure.  Obviously there is a triple: 
processor speed, memory amount, video card capabilities.  If I have 
to upgrade in all three areas and I don't get this to work, I will 
have wasted money.

In another thread I ask about an AGP card that is a Radeon 512MB
AGP 4x/8x card with HDMI capability.  If it is adequate for the
task, I might get one.  That's a $60 investment in old tech 
though.

At least this tuner works with my Dad's quad core Windows 7 system,
I'd be ticked off if it didn't.

I realize that going from a P4 to a dual or quad core processor would
be the ideal solution, but that is also an expensive solution.  I have
a 1.80 Ghz or 2.40 Ghz processor right now. so 3.06 Ghz seems like it
would be a decent improvement.  If anyone can show me how to move up 
to a dual core system for $35-$70, let me know.

The memory is DDR 333 I believe.  Unfortunately, I have 2 sticks of 256
meg variety filling the board's two slots.  I could buy 1 512 meg stick
or maybe 1 1 gig stick and replace one of them.

The SiliconHDHomerun dual tuner cost me $107.  I'm after a 3.06 Ghz P4
that might run me $35.  I may have to buy a video card.   If I have to
buy memory too, I might be looking at $150-$200 just to upgrade one
machine.  I want to know as I explore upgrading these P4's to the max 
if ultimately that will be enough.  If it won't be enough, I'll go back
to trying to win a refurbished dual core system on Ebay.

My budget is less than $300 if at all possible to get at least one and
preferably more than one P4 upgraded adequately.

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[PLUG] How about this video card...

[Michael Robinson]

ATI Radeon HD 3450 512MB DDR2 AGP 8X/4X DVI+HDTV+VGA Video Graphics Card

for HDTV playback on my Pentium IV system?  Does this card have the MPEG
processing capability that I need?

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[PLUG] HDhomerun and P4s...

[Michael Robinson]

Has anyone on here successfully streamed from a Silicondust HDhomerun
network based tuner to a Pentium 4 system?  I'm wondering if upgrading
from a 512 meg 2.4 Ghz P4 to a 512 meg 3.06 Ghz P4 will make a big
difference or if I'm going to need a multi core machine?  I got the
network tuner thinking more than one computer on my network could be
used to stream television only to realize, to my shock, that none of
the computers on my network in all likelihood are fast enough.

I realize that Pentium 4s are old these days, but I'm tight on money
where the point of buying a network tuner instead of a television is
to save both space and money.

If I have to get a dual core or quad core computer, I'll stop trying
to get a 3.06 Ghz P4.  Honestly, I don't get why I can't buy a hardware
card to do the mpeg translation so that I don't have to have a faster P4
or a quad core system.

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Re: [PLUG] Want to build a Linux based PVR...

[Michael Robinson]

Stupid question, why do you need a gigahertz or better computer
to run a tuner card that simply allows you to display the play
station II's analog low definition output on your screen?  The
play station II, if I'm not mistaken, is only a 300 mhz computer.
I can possibly upgrade my 450 mhz PIII to 750 mhz, but that's
the cheapest thing I can do.

Maybe I'm going about this all wrong, maybe there is a Play Station
II emulator I can use.

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Re: [PLUG] Want to build a Linux based PVR...

[Michael Robinson]

On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 14:25 -0800, Jim Beckett wrote:
> Michael Robinson wrote:
> > I'm trying option 4, use a network based tuner that is compatible with
> > Linux and Windows and Mac OSX.
> >   
> Michael,
> 
> I see in the other message thread, I see that you are looking at this 
> device:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16815327005
> 
> It should work nicely (with some caveats)
> 
> If by option 4, you mean to use the (usually feature-limited) playback 
> applications that come bundled with the device you purchase (whether it 
> is this, or some other device), then that can work, but usually they are 
> lacking a lot of functionality, and I was thinking that you might like a 
> more full-featured solution, thus the TV/PVR suggestions I mentioned.
> 
> If you don't want a full-featured TV/PVR solution, there's nothing wrong 
> with that, so forget I mentioned them.
> 
> 
> Regardless of what device you end up purchasing, and what application 
> you use to view the recorded shows, there are some considerations in the 
> channel tuning arena that would be good to bring to your attention, if 
> they haven't been discussed already.
> 
> Do you plan to tune in free, over the air, channels using an antenna?
> 
> Or, do you plan to plug the device into the cable outlet?
> 
> Or, do you plan to connect the device directly to the cable box?

I wonder if I can hook up a satellite feed, but in all honesty I'm
after over the air via a rabbit ears antenna.  The encryption 
problem with cable is an interesting one, I suppose it limits 
what people who are on cable can do.  As far as my play station 
II, I might use an old analog television that's available.

Satellite television has been something in the far off future for
a long time.  It is hard to justify the expense, on the other hand,
there are some channels that aren't available over the air.

The play station runs at standard definition so there should be a cheap
device that doesn't act as a PVR but that does allow for a computer
running Linux or Windows 98SE for that matter to put the images on
the screen.  I really don't want to put XP on an old PIII 450.  I
especially don't want to considering that this is a games machine
where some of the games on it require Windows 98SE.  There was a
project to port Red Alert I Command and Conquer to Linux, but it
appears that the project disintegrated.

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Re: [PLUG] Want to build a Linux based PVR...

[Michael Robinson]

I'm trying option 4, use a network based tuner that is compatible with
Linux and Windows and Mac OSX.

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[PLUG] How about this for a tuner?

[Michael Robinson]

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16815327005

The beauty of this product is that it appears to be everything
compatible and it can add digital television to an entire computer
network.  The downsides are the high cost and apparently it doesn't
do hardware based MPEG translation.  Comments anyone?

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Re: [PLUG] Want to build a Linux based PVR...

[Michael Robinson]

On Thu, 2010-02-04 at 12:31 -0800, Bryan Green wrote:
> Here's another option. A friend of mine used a prior model of this  
> card for his home theater PC. It's likely one I will use in the future.
> 
> http://www.pchdtv.com

I'm hoping to get a USB based tuner, but it looks like these are more
than $99 a piece.  I like the Linux compatible notion, but I worry
that it won't work in Windows.  I'm in a tight spot, I have a Windows
machine that I can't just run Linux on because it is meant for Windows
programs that don't work in Linux like Minitab for example.  On the
other hand, I want a tuner for this machine because there is no room
to drop in a small television.  I suppose I can dual boot the machine
to get around the needing Linux for the tuner issue, but if the tuner
is PCI based and causes a problem with Windows, I won't be able to
unplug it to run Windows.  I like the idea of being portable also as
this machine isn't in a good place for me to hook up my play station.
If the mentioned site had a USB 2 version that works in Linux and
Windows XP, that would be much more attractive.  I want a Linux
compatible tuner for this Linux based P4 desktop system I'm typing
up this email on that is also Windows XP compatible for the other
system.

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[PLUG] Want to build a Linux based PVR...

[Michael Robinson]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what the market is like right now.
I'm looking for a PCI card or I suppose a USB based tuner will also
work.  Of course, I want a card that works with Linux.  I have a 
Play Station II that I want to hook up to the computer.  I guess the
alternative is finding a Play Station II emulator.  Is there a local
business that understands Linux which can hook me up with the ideal
HDTV tuner card in the $20-$50 range?  It looks like I want to avoid
Geniatech.  I don't know about ATI tuner cards, my dad has thrown one
out because it didn't work.

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[PLUG] How much power consumed...

[Michael Robinson]

I am wondering what my Pentium II 300 server system with the monitor 
off most of the time is drawing power wise?  I'm thinking 190 watts 
is probably the max because I googled and that is apparently what a
K6-2 300 system draws.  What is the best way for this Linux based
computer to post it's average power consumption via an Apache based 
web site?  This system has two Compaq 4G MA4039LP scsi drives, an
Adaptec 2940U2W, a scsi cdrom that is almost never used, a Thunderlan
dual nic, an Intel ISA PCMCIA card, and an ATI Rage 128 RF/SG AGP video
card.  Don't know how much power the memory consumes, but I have 2 128
meg PC66 DIMMs.  I also have a cheap USB Logitech color Quickcam.  A
cheap PS/2 mouse and keyboard are plugged in, but they are almost never
used.

Is there a hardware product that I can plug in between the wall 
and the power strip that feeds this computer which will report 
the power consumption to Linux via a USB or ethernet port?  The
only thing that readily comes to mind is getting an APC Smart UPS.
I have one that doesn't work right, don't know why.

I would like a cheap amp meter that I can plug in inline between any
15/20 amp AC device and a wall outlet.  Obviously, it would be nice
if this amp meter has Linux compatible output capabilities.

Actually, it would be nice if I could meter the circuit that this server
is on in isolation.

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Re: [PLUG] Pine

[Michael Robinson]

On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 14:56 -0800, Joe Pruett wrote:
> the option you want to change is the rsh-open-timeout.  set it to 0 and it 
> should stop trying rsh.

Yes, that seems to fix the problem.  I also went ahead and set ssh
something to 0.  As far as the alpine suggestion, I am not using pine
for Internet email in this case where pine should be sufficient.  The
behavior of pine that you get warnings and errors if you aren't using
secure IMAP is odd.  Usually, the default of an email reader is to be
insecure.  Evolution for example doesn't give you errors if you set
up plain text IMAP.

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[PLUG] Pine

[Michael Robinson]

How do I disable pine's attempts to access TCP port 514 which according
to /etc/services is the shell service?  It doesn't need to access port
514 for imap access but it still tries.

shell   514/tcpcmd  #like exec, but automatic
syslog  514/udp

Jan 24 21:36:32 barn kernel: OUTPUT_t:IN= OUT=eth0 SRC=192.168.4.34
DST=192.168.4.1 LEN=60 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=55015 DF PROTO=TCP
SPT=1020 DPT=514 WINDOW=5840 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 

Every time I try to run pine I get the above message in my logs that
an attempt has been made to access the shell service remotely on tcp
port 514.

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[PLUG] Fedora Core 1 mail problems...

[Michael Robinson]

It appears to be pre dovecot and it uses a package called imapd.
Unfortunately, I have no idea where the home directory for imap
mail folders is set.  Pine has no problem, it doesn't seem to
try and access imap folders other than the inbox.  Evolution on 
the other hand lists every file in the user's home directory as 
a potential mail folder.

Anyone know how to get around this bug?

Another problem is that evolution doesn't seem smart enough to
realize that I use a different mail server for my private email
than I use for my public email accounts.  The effect is, I can't
send email from evolution via my private system.

Short of getting into virtual mail boxes, how can I host the mail
folders in an area that is separate from users home directories?

I'm using postfix as the mta for my private email system, version
2.0.20 precisely.

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[PLUG] Visopsys...

[Michael Robinson]

I just found out about this alternative operating system where the major
advantage appears to be an excellent partition magic like partitioning
tool.  It is primarily a one man project and it looks like he intends
to keep it that way.  Visopsys stands for visual operating system.

It looks like the project is on the verge of a new release.

I know visopsys isn't Linux, but I thought it might be interesting
to someone who wants a really good partitioning tool.  The main
developer has a lot of good links pertaining to how you write
an operating system for x86 computers.

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[PLUG] Pine and imap...

[Michael Robinson]

I have a private lan where I set 2 hosts up as postfix 
relays with local transport disabled.  I'm trying to set pine 
up to use imap to access messages routed to dodo for
this network from these hosts.  In pine, I pressed 'S' 
followed by 'C' and entered the following
"{dodo.w2.robinson-west.pri}INBOX."  It works
more or less, but I'm getting tcp port 514 errors in my 
logs and I get an error screen in pine complaining that 
the certificate is invalid.  My imap server on this network
is not encrypted, but I don't see the point of encrypting
it.  How do I get rid of the error messages in pine?

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[PLUG] Checking compatability...

[Michael Robinson]

ATI Rage 128 GL 16MB AGP 2X Video Card 109-51800-01 VGA

Is this video card Linux compatible?  It just has a vga out,
nothing else.  I have a Pentium II 440BX chipset motherboard
with I presume an AGP 2x port.  All I'm after is 1024x768 at
reasonable color depth.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Rage-128-GL-16MB-AGP-2X-Video-Card-109-51800-01-VGA_W0QQitemZ320469710278QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCC_Video_TV_Cards?hash=item4a9d7bb5c6



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[PLUG] USB audio...

[Michael Robinson]

Under Linux it shows up as C-Media when I do an /sbin/lsusb.  I go to do
an alsaconf though and it doesn't detect it.  This usb speaker/mic cable
only seems to work in XP.  I got it from usbgear, it was supposed to
work in 98SE as well.  It doesn't.

It just says USB to AUDIO CABLE on it.  Has anyone gotten one of these
to work under Linux?

I seem to have an SIS video card, but I can't get better than 640x480 in
X.  Back to the sound issue, I try to open the audio control panel in
gnome and get a there are no mixer devices error.

I'm running Slackware 10.1 with the 2.6.10 kernel because my Logitech
quickcam seems to require this.  It appears that Slackware 13 isn't an
option.

I'm borderline tempted to change motherboards so I can use a normal
sound card.

As far as the video card is concerned, this is a Monorail 440BX chipset
PII 300 system where I don't know what the AGP slot can handle.  I'm
happy if I can do 1024x768.

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Re: [PLUG] Getting around junk sound card...

[Michael Robinson]

On Sat, 2010-01-02 at 19:48 -0800, wes wrote:
> >
> >
> > I've looked closely at the mobo thinking I can slip in a compatible
> > sound card to get around this issue.  No dice.  The board only has
> > 2 PCI slots, 1 AGP slot, and 1 ISA slot.  Short of converting this
> > SCSI based system to an IDE based one or pulling the ISA pcmcia card,
> >
> 
> What's in the other PCI slot? both scsi controllers?
> 
> -wes
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Dual port network card, uses Thunderlan driver.

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[PLUG] Getting around junk sound card...

[Michael Robinson]

I have a motherboard from an old Monorail system with a built in
Monorail 3D Audio sound card.  It is an ISA card supposedly.  I
can't use it under Linux, I turn the card on in the bios and
the next thing I know I'm getting an OOPS message when I try
to load Slackware.  I don't have a dos driver for this sound
card where Monorail may not have made one.

I've looked closely at the mobo thinking I can slip in a compatible
sound card to get around this issue.  No dice.  The board only has
2 PCI slots, 1 AGP slot, and 1 ISA slot.  Short of converting this
SCSI based system to an IDE based one or pulling the ISA pcmcia card,
I can't add a compatible sound card.  There are no Linux compatible
pcmcia sound cards supposedly.  I am not sure what will work over
the USB ports.

Is there any chance of a patch to get the onboard sound working?

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Re: [PLUG] Linux and driver blues...

[Michael Robinson]

Thank you for the link, it was very informative.
I too am impressed for the most part by what Linux does support.
I especially found the get involved with LF if you are an IHV
interesting.

I've run hardware names through google adding Linux to 
to find out if it works over the years.


On Thu, 2009-12-31 at 00:33 -0800, Mike Connors wrote:
> Michael Robinson wrote:
> > On the ReactOS forums, it has been suggested that
> > Linux lacks a coherent driver model so that every driver has to be
> > ported every time a new kernel comes out.  Is this true?  It has been
> > suggested that Linux doesn't do well with proprietary drivers from one
> > kernel to the next.  
> >   
> First, let me just say that I am as ignorant as anyone about the Linux 
> Device Driver Model. So I
> Googled and read this post
> [http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/publications/linux-driver-model#Linux_Device_Driver_Model]
> on the Linux Foundation web site. I would encourage you as well as the 
> people on the ReactOS forums to
> read it as well with the goal of being able to have intelligent and 
> useful conversations regarding it...
> 
> Some key points:
> "Linux today supports more hardware devices than any other operating 
> system in the history of the world. It does this using a development 
> model significantly different from the familiar Windows device driver 
> model."
> 
> "The Linux driver model is different from the Windows model many IHVs 
> are used to. But it is a consistent and compelling approach, and has 
> been successful at supporting nearly the entire universe of computer 
> hardware. Moreover, the vast majority of all IHVs have adapted to Linux 
> and have thriving businesses that work with the Linux driver development 
> model."
> 
> I've personally run into a driver issues with my ATI video card and 
> Intel 3495 Wi-Fi chipset. Yes, it can be frustrating to have to compile 
> drivers from source or go read threads and install different drivers, or 
> try different hacks. I don't connect a lot of peripherals such as 
> digital cameras, cell phones, iPod, PDA's, and such to my Linux laptop. 
> I'm sure if I did there's a good chance I might be a bit more frustrated 
> w. the lack of driver support for these types of consumer electronics 
> devices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[PLUG] Linux and driver blues...

[Michael Robinson]

I have qc-usb-0.6.6 source code from Sourceforge for my cheap web cam
and it works with the 2.6.10 kernel, but I don't think it works with any
later 2.6.x kernel.  On the ReactOS forums, it has been suggested that
Linux lacks a coherent driver model so that every driver has to be
ported every time a new kernel comes out.  Is this true?  It has been
suggested that Linux doesn't do well with proprietary drivers from one
kernel to the next.  I have yet to see ReactOS use anything that Linux
can't use without crashing, so maybe the ReactOS community is being a
bit premature to be knocking Linux.

On my PII system with the built in ISA sound card,
I found that turning the Monorail 3D Audio on causes Slackware to crash
during boot.  Turn the audio off in the bios, Slackware boots like a
charm.  Why did Monorail integrate junk into an otherwise decent Pentium
II motherboard?  Why didn't they integrate a standard sound blaster?

Where is the Linux kernel going in the future as far as drivers are
concerned?  It seems right now like a lot of stuff is broken.  I
hate to see stuff break between an old release in the current
stable kernel series and a newer release in that series.

I guess it is a lot to ask that someone fix the driver for an ISA sound
card since ISA has been gone a long time.

Concerning hardware not working with Linux.  Say I know an EE and know
about a business that could potentially make PCI cards.  Is it possible
to make say sound cards and release the design without defeating one's
opportunity to profit from the work?  Is releasing a hardware schematic
with the hardware under a license that says, "you are not permitted to
use these schematics to build the hardware without explicit permission
from the manufacturer," a reasonable way to do business?  If the
schematics to popular hardware exist and are free for the owners of said
hardware, someone will probably write a Linux driver for it.  For that
matter, someone may write a driver for Syllable, Haiku, Freedos,
etcetera.

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Re: [PLUG] Alsa problems...

[Michael Robinson]

Found this in condor's kern.log:

Dec 29 19:03:06 condor kernel: no OPL device at 0x380-0x383

Hunh?  That is weird.

The following is my isapnp.conf on the box:

# $Id: pnpdump_main.c,v 1.27 2001/04/30 21:54:53 fox Exp $
# Release isapnptools-1.26
#
# This is free software, see the sources for details.
# This software has NO WARRANTY, use at your OWN RISK
#
# For details of the output file format, see isapnp.conf(5)
# # For latest information and FAQ on isapnp and pnpdump see: #
http://www.roestock.demon.co.uk/isapnptools/
#
# Compiler flags:  -DREALTIME -DHAVE_PROC -DENABLE_PCI
-DHAVE_SCHED_SETSCHEDULER -DHAVE_NANOSLEEP -DWANT_TO_VALIDATE
#
# Trying port address 0273
# Board 1 has serial identifier 74 ff ff ff ff 31 09 14 3e

# (DEBUG)
(READPORT 0x0273)
(ISOLATE PRESERVE)
(IDENTIFY *)
(VERBOSITY 2)
(CONFLICT (IO FATAL)(IRQ FATAL)(DMA FATAL)(MEM FATAL)) # or WARNING

# Card 1: (serial identifier 74 ff ff ff ff 31 09 14 3e)
# Vendor Id OPT0931, No Serial Number (-1), checksum 0x74.
# Version 1.0, Vendor version 0.0
# ANSI string -->OPTi Audio 16<--
#
# Logical device id OPT
#
# Edit the entries below to uncomment out the configuration required.
# Note that only the first value of any range is given, this may be
changed if required
# Don't forget to uncomment the activate (ACT Y) when happy

(CONFIGURE OPT0931/-1 (LD 0
# ANSI string -->AUX0<--
 (NAME "OPT0931/-1[0]{AUX0}")
(ACT Y)
))
#
# Logical device id OPT9310
#
# Edit the entries below to uncomment out the configuration required.
# Note that only the first value of any range is given, this may be
changed if required
# Don't forget to uncomment the activate (ACT Y) when happy

(CONFIGURE OPT0931/-1 (LD 1
# ANSI string -->OPTi Audio 16<--

# Multiple choice time, choose one only !

# Start dependent functions: priority acceptable
#   Logical device decodes 16 bit IO address lines
# Minimum IO base address 0x0534
# Maximum IO base address 0x0608
# IO base alignment 4 bytes
# Number of IO addresses required: 4
(IO 0 (SIZE 4) (BASE 0x0534))
#   Logical device decodes 16 bit IO address lines
# Minimum IO base address 0x0380
# Maximum IO base address 0x03f0
# IO base alignment 16 bytes
# Number of IO addresses required: 12
(IO 1 (SIZE 12) (BASE 0x0380))
#   Logical device decodes 16 bit IO address lines
# Minimum IO base address 0x0220
# Maximum IO base address 0x0240
# IO base alignment 32 bytes
# Number of IO addresses required: 16
(IO 2 (SIZE 16) (BASE 0x0220))
#   Logical device decodes 16 bit IO address lines
# Minimum IO base address 0x0e0c
# Maximum IO base address 0x0ffc
# IO base alignment 4 bytes
# Number of IO addresses required: 4
(IO 3 (SIZE 4) (BASE 0x0e0c))
#   IRQ 5, 7 or 10.
# High true, edge sensitive interrupt (by default)
(INT 0 (IRQ 5 (MODE +E)))
#   First DMA channel 0, 1 or 3.
# 8 bit DMA only
# Logical device is a bus master
# DMA may execute in count by byte mode
# DMA may not execute in count by word mode
# DMA channel speed type F
(DMA 0 (CHANNEL 1))
#   Next DMA channel 0, 1 or 3.
# 8 bit DMA only
# Logical device is a bus master
# DMA may execute in count by byte mode
# DMA may not execute in count by word mode
# DMA channel speed type F
(DMA 1 (CHANNEL 0))

# End dependent functions
 (NAME "OPT0931/-1[1]{OPTi Audio 16   }")
(ACT Y)
))
#
# Logical device id OPT0001
#
# Edit the entries below to uncomment out the configuration required.
# Note that only the first value of any range is given, this may be
changed if required
# Don't forget to uncomment the activate (ACT Y) when happy

(CONFIGURE OPT0931/-1 (LD 2
# ANSI string -->Game Port<--
# Logical device decodes 16 bit IO address lines
# Minimum IO base address 0x0200
# Maximum IO base address 0x020f
# IO base alignment 1 bytes
# Number of IO addresses required: 1
(IO 0 (SIZE 1) (BASE 0x0200))
 (NAME "OPT0931/-1[2]{Game Port   }")
(ACT Y)
))
#
# Logical device id OPT0002
#
# Edit the entries below to uncomment out the configuration required.
# Note that only the first value of any range is given, this may be
changed if required
# Don't forget to uncomment the activate (ACT Y) when happy

(CONFIGURE OPT0931/-1 (LD 3
# ANSI string -->MPU401<--
# Logical device decodes 16 bit IO address lines
# Minimum IO base address 0x0300
# Maximum IO base address 0x0360
# IO base alignment 16 bytes
# Number of IO addresses required: 2
# (IO 0 (SIZE 2) (BASE 0x0300))
# IRQ 5, 7, 9, 10 or 11.
# High true, edge sensitive interrupt (by default)
(INT 0 (IRQ 10 (MODE +E)))
(NAME "OPT0931/-1[3]{MPU401  }")
(A

[PLUG] Alsa problems...

[Michael Robinson]

I can't select my sound card in alsaconf because alsaconf doesn't 
list it even though I know I have a module for it.

I have a DR sound ISA sound card or I guess an OPTi931 sound card.

ad...@condor:~$ ls alsa/
alsa-driver-1.0.9rc4a/ alsa-lib-1.0.9rc4.tar.bz2
alsa-driver-1.0.9rc4a.tar.bz2  alsa-utils-1.0.9rc4a/
alsa-lib-1.0.9rc4/ alsa-utils-1.0.9rc4a.tar.bz2

As you can see, I grabbed recent source code for ALSA.

I'm running a 2.6.10 kernel, have to because later kernels
don't work with my Quickcam color camera, the cheap one.

(CONFIGURE OPT0931/-1 (LD 0

As you can, the above piece of my isapnp.conf file suggests that
the card is an OPTi931 as well.

Is the driver for this sound card simply not functional or is there
a trick to get alsaconf to try it?

I'm also having trouble with alsamixer not working as the following
shows:

ad...@condor:~$ alsamixer 

alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such file or
directory
ad...@condor:~$ 

I have another similar computer that sports Monorail 3D audio which also
identifies as an OPTi931.

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[PLUG] NFSROOT problems...

[Michael Robinson]

I'm trying to create a new kernel to boot from.  The old kernel has ACPI
support and it is locking up on boot.  I'm trying to compile a 2.6.27.39
kernel and the bzImage file is too big.  I need it to be 1.4 megs or
smaller where I'm 200k too big.  Is there any way around this limitation
that etherboot seems to impose?

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Re: [PLUG] Troubleshooting DHCP...

[Michael Robinson]

On Mon, 2009-12-28 at 15:28 -0800, Mike Connors wrote:
> Michael Robinson wrote:
> > I'm wondering if the Cat5 STP cable is having problems.
> If I were working on this problem, the 1st thing I'd do is use the 
> ethtool command
> to look at the physical Ethernet statistics on both sides. If there's 
> any problems at the physical layer
> you'll see them reflected in error counters.
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Trouble is, the other end doesn't boot if this doesn't work.  I was
seeing packet errors on the far end though before I tried to reformat
the etherboot disk.

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Re: [PLUG] Troubleshooting DHCP...

[Michael Robinson]

On a hunch after verifying that it still works when I use a 10Mbit hub,
I replaced the hub with a crossover coupler.  That is, I used something
that is almost equivalent to a 100Mbit hub with 2 ports.  It isn't
working where I'm seeing the same symptoms.

What could be making this work at 10Mbit but not at 100Mbit?  The first
line in the first building is 100' of Cat5e UTP cable, the second line
is 90' of at least Cat5 STP cable.

I'll have to check the lights on both ends.  It just seems odd, I have 
a Netgear FA311 nic on both ends so they should be able to talk to each
other.

I have a new Netgear switch, but I don't want to open it unless I can't
get this working.

I wish I had some way of verifying that the line can operate at 
100 Mbps.

I'm wondering if the Cat5 STP cable is having problems.

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Re: [PLUG] Troubleshooting DHCP...

[Michael Robinson]

On Mon, 2009-12-28 at 01:12 -0800, Mike Connors wrote:
> Michael Robinson wrote:
> > I wonder if being a switch it was blocking the dhcp replies? 
> Switches don't block broadcast protocols like DHCP. Routers do and if 
> DHCP traffic
> has to traverse a different network than a DHCP proxy must be configured.
> 
> However, there are a couple of cases where dhcp requests/replies could 
> be inadvertently
> blocked.
> 
> 1. The DHCP client and dhcp server are on different VLANs.
> 
> 2. Spanning Tree port configuration is another. With regular spanning 
> tree (8021.d),
> the switch port could be in blocking mode while the spanning tree is 
> being mapped out and
> therefore any DHCP traffic will not pass thru the port. As best practice 
> we always
> configured the switch ports with rapid spanning tree (802.1w), so that 
> spanning tree convergence
> happened faster and didn't impact dhcp requests.

No VLANS are in use.  I am running DHCP 3 server on CentOS 5.3 listening
on an actual Netgear FA311 network card with an actual Cat5e UTP cable
running 100' into the attic where at this point I go to a 10BaseT hub
and from there I continue on with a Cat5 STP cable outside, underground,
back above ground, and into another building where I terminate at
another FA311 network card in my diskless server.  I tried to replace
the Dlink hub with a Netgear DSS5+ 5 port switch.  I guess my switch is
faulty.  It seems unlikely that the cables themselves didn't handle
100BaseTX transmission okay.  Obviously there was some networking from
the diskless client to the server at 100BaseTX, but somehow the switch
broke DHCP.  Put the slow dumb hub back in, works just fine.  Trouble 
is, I want the higher speed because I'm extending with 802.11g outdoor
access points.  I'm thinking of getting a cable joiner that also acts
as a crossover device and using that instead of a hub or switch.

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Re: [PLUG] Troubleshooting DHCP...

[Michael Robinson]

On Sun, 2009-12-27 at 21:13 -0800, Daniel Johnson wrote:
> > The other diskless machine on another nic off of the same server, dodo,
> > boots just fine by the way.  Is something obviously wrong in my dhcp
> > config file or am I looking at a problem with the switch?  DHCP worked
> > when I was using a 10BaseT hub which makes me wonder if the line can't
> > support 100baseTX.
> 
> It could be a problem with autoconfiguring the speed, and duplex of
> the connection.  I've had two switches decide on different modes, and
> thus get a broken network.  When one side is a dumb 10 megabit hub it
> doesn't try to negotiate, so you never have to worry about that
> problem.  If you can force it into different modes try that.

I forced the server to half duplex using ethtool, but I can't force the 
client to go to half duplex.  Put the 10Mbit dumb hub back in, dhcp
worked like a charm and the machine network booted no problem.  I wonder
if being a switch it was blocking the dhcp replies?  I should in theory
be able to pull the hub and replace it with a crossover coupler.  I'm
starting to think that the switch I was trying to use is bad or maybe
I need a 100 megabit per second hub instead.  Thing is, I use another
DSS5+ switch with a linksys wireless WAP11 plugged into it that
configures via dhcp no problem.  I'm not sure what the issue is here.

Just to double check, 190' is within the range limitations for
100BaseTX, right?

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[PLUG] Troubleshooting DHCP...

[Michael Robinson]

I'm trying to replace a 10BaseT DLink hub with a 100 Base TX DSS 5+
switch.  DHCP doesn't work anymore.

The server is on one end connected via an FA311 netgear card.  From
there, a 100' Cat5e cable runs to the switch in the attic.  Then I 
go to Cat5 STP cable for an additional 90' outside, underground,
and back above ground into the next building.  The diskless machine
that boots via floppy is on the far end.  A 190' run made up of a
100' and a 90' run seems to be within the range limitations for
100BaseTX.  Then again, the cable is shallowly buried and could
be getting weathered.

I see DHCPDISCOVER and DHCPOFFER, but nothing past that.

Dec 27 20:32:36 
goose dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:02:e3:02:46:37 via eth2
Dec 27 20:32:36 
goose dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.4.17 to 00:02:e3:02:46:37 via eth2

Most of my dhcpd.conf follows:

failover peer "dhcp"
{
   primary;
   address 192.168.5.2;
   port 647;

   peer address 192.168.5.1;
   peer port 647;
   max-response-delay 60;
   max-unacked-updates 10;
   mclt 600;
   split 128;
   load balance max seconds 3;

   peer address 192.168.5.4;
}



ddns-update-style none;
authoritative;
allow booting;
next-server 192.168.5.2;



# %%% wifi-2 %%%
shared-network WIFI-2
{
 subnet 192.168.4.0 netmask 255.255.255.240
 {
option domain-name "w2.robinson-west.pri";
option domain-name-servers 192.168.4.2;
option routers 192.168.4.2;
option broadcast-address 192.168.4.15;
option ntp-servers 192.168.4.2;
 }

 subnet 192.168.4.16 netmask 255.255.255.240
 {
option domain-name "w2.robinson-west.pri";
option domain-name-servers 192.168.4.18;
option routers 192.168.4.18;
option broadcast-address 192.168.4.31;
option ntp-servers 192.168.4.18;
 }

 # %%% wifi-2 network segment 1 %%%
 group
 {
   use-host-decl-names on;
   next-server 192.168.4.2;

   host dodo.w2.robinson-west.pri
   {
  hardware ethernet 00:02:E3:14:1C:94;
  fixed-address 192.168.4.1;
  option root-path "192.168.4.2:/nfsroot/dodo";
  filename="\dodo.nbi";
   }
  }
  # %%% wifi-2 network segment 1 %%%

  # %%% wifi-2 network segment 2 %%%
  group
  {
   use-host-decl-names on;
   next-server 192.168.4.18;

   host condor.w2.robinson-west.pri
   {
  hardware ethernet 00:02:E3:02:46:37;
  fixed-address 192.168.4.17;
  option root-path "192.168.4.18:/nfsroot/condor";
  filename="\condor.nbi";
   }
  }
  # %%% wifi-2 network segment 2 %%%
}
# %%% wifi-2 %%%



# %%% local lan %%%
shared-network LAN-1
{
 subnet 192.168.5.0 netmask 255.255.255.0
 {
pool
{
  failover peer "dhcp";
  range 192.168.5.129 192.168.5.254;
  deny dynamic bootp clients;
}

option routers 192.168.5.6;
option domain-name-servers 192.168.5.1, 192.168.5.4;
option domain-name "robinson-west.com";
option broadcast-address 192.168.5.255;
option ntp-servers 192.168.5.2;
 }

group
{
...
# This is populated by host records...
}
# %%% local lan %%%
}
...
# I define the Internet subnet...

The other diskless machine on another nic off of the same server, dodo,
boots just fine by the way.  Is something obviously wrong in my dhcp
config file or am I looking at a problem with the switch?  DHCP worked
when I was using a 10BaseT hub which makes me wonder if the line can't
support 100baseTX.

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[PLUG] FVX538 and IP assignments...

[Michael Robinson]

The FVX538 has a DHCP server and it works okay, but the addressing
scheme is a random one.  Uge!  Is there any way to fix the IP 
addresses and still assign them from the FVX 538?  Can the FVX 538
support dynamic DNS updating so I can name the darn addresses 
regardless of what they happen to be at the moment?

I'm trying to use the FVX 538 in a different sort of way.  I 
DON'T want to access the Internet through it and I don't want 
to be able to.  I DO want to access the systems on it's private 
LAN and systems in private LANs connected via tunnel.  I am 
also trying to connect the FVX538's LAN to another LAN.  

I think I plugged into the wrong port choosing one of the LAN 
ports instead of the DMZ port, but maybe I didn't.  It seems 
that the DMZ is only intended for hosts which possibly serve 
the Internet that cannot go through NAT.  A downside of the 
DMZ on the FVX 538 is that networking between LAN and DMZ is 
blocked.

How does dynamic dns work?  Does the DHCP server send a MAC/IP 
address pair?  This is the information I need to assign the 
same name to the same computer regardless of the IP assignment 
if I write a program to generate the zone files.

Can the FVX 538 support assigning static routes to other private
networks via one of the statically configured hosts on the LAN 
segment?

I've tried google, but my situation doesn't seem to be covered.


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[PLUG] Logitech MK700 Linux...

[Michael Robinson]

I got a wireless desktop keyboard and mouse for Christmas.  I'm
wondering if it is at all possible to map the special keys under
Linux?  The scroll lock doesn't seem to work.  The keyboard is 
designed for Windows XP and later, typical.  Logitech really
should consider Linux support.


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Re: [PLUG] Double NAT...

[Michael Robinson]

On Thu, 2009-12-24 at 17:31 -0800, Mike Connors wrote:
> Michael Robinson wrote:
> > First off, Merry Christmas everyone.
> >
> > I am looking at the double nat howto and admittedly I am having trouble
> > following it.  Any help would be appreciated.
> Wheee, the joys of double NAT!  Which how-to are you looking
> at which part are you having trouble following?
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Don't worry about it, I went ahead and renumbered my
private network to remove the conflict.

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[PLUG] Double NAT...

[Michael Robinson]

First off, Merry Christmas everyone.

I am looking at the double nat howto and admittedly I am having trouble
following it.  Any help would be appreciated.

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Re: [PLUG] Routing problem...?SOLVED?

[Michael Robinson]

If I do:
 
ip route add 192.168.1.0/24 dev eth0

and even if I do:

ip route add 192.168.1.0/24 dev eth2 via 192.168.4.2 metric 2

this seems to get things working.  Even the marking of
packets seems to be working.  One would assume you
don't need a route in the main table, but I guess you
do.  I did add a MARK rule to the OUTPUT portion of
the mangle table which seems to be necessary to route
locally generated packets properly.  Confusingly enough,
locally generated packets never seem to go through
the PREROUTING portion of the mangle table which makes
no sense at all.

I have pine on this Fedora Core 1 machine by the way,
the stock Postfix, 2.0.11, doesn't work with it.  
Grabbed the source to postfix-2.0.20 and did a make 
followed by a make upgrade.  It works now.  

I wonder what other bugs are lurking???

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[PLUG] HELP ;-) Can't get routing table to work...

[Michael Robinson]

I am missing something.  I have been googling for hours to no avail.

[r...@dodo firewall]# ip route list
192.168.4.16/28 via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2 
192.168.4.0/28 dev eth2  scope link 
192.168.5.0/28 dev eth1  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.5.2 
192.168.3.0/28 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.3.1 
192.168.4.48/28 via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2 
192.168.3.16/28 dev eth0  scope link 
192.168.4.32/28 via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2 
192.168.0.0/24 dev eth1  scope link 
127.0.0.0/8 dev lo  scope link 
[r...@dodo firewall]# ip rule show
0:  from all lookup local 
32764:  from all fwmark 0x3 lookup lcl_xer 
32765:  from all fwmark 0x2 lookup lcl_web 
32766:  from all lookup main 
32767:  from all lookup 253 
[r...@dodo firewall]# iptables -nvL -t mangle
Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT 704K packets, 149M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 
 3889  278K MARK   all  --  *  *   0.0.0.0/0
0.0.0.0/0  MAC 00:02:E3:02:C8:8F MARK set 0x3 
166 MARK   all  --  *  *   0.0.0.0/0
0.0.0.0/0  MAC 00:40:F4:2D:AF:5C MARK set 0x2 
  959 94991 MARK   all  --  *  *   0.0.0.0/0
0.0.0.0/0  MARK set 0x3 
0 0 LOGall  --  *  *   192.168.1.0/24
0.0.0.0/0  LOG flags 0 level 4 prefix `lan_source:' 
0 0 LOGall  --  *  *   0.0.0.0/0
192.168.1.0/24 LOG flags 0 level 4 prefix `lan_destination:' 

Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT 703K packets, 149M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 

Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT 263 packets, 75666 bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 

Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT 675K packets, 175M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 

Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT 675K packets, 175M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 
[r...@dodo firewall]# ip route list table lcl_xer
192.168.1.0/24 via 192.168.3.2 dev eth0 
192.168.1.0/24 via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2  metric 2 
[r...@dodo firewall]# ip route list table lcl_web
192.168.1.0/24 via 192.168.3.18 dev eth0 
192.168.1.0/24 via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2  metric 2 
[r...@dodo firewall]# 

As you can see, routing table lcl_xer and routing table
lcl_web both have routing rules for 192.168.1.0/24.
Oddly enough, the logging rules in the mangle table
never trigger.  When I try to ping 192.168.1.1 I
just get an error that the network is unreachable.
This is not in the advanced routing howto guide
folks.  The kernel is 2.4.22 and yes I checked
for MARK support and yes I did compile it in.
It appears that the kernel not seeing a route in
the main table doesn't produce any packets.

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Re: [PLUG] Routing problem...

[Michael Robinson]

> what DOES happen when the destination is 192.168.1.0/24? Can you provide a
> traceroute?
>
> I don't know what "table 3" means, but I'm pretty sure that if it doesn't
> show up in "ip route list" it's not going to be effective.
> 
> >From the ip(8) man page:
> 
> ...
> Route tables: Linux-2.x can pack routes  into  several  routing  tables
> identified  by  a number in the range from 1 to 255 or by name from the
> file /etc/iproute2/rt_tables main table (ID 254) and  the  kernel  only
> uses this table when calculating routes.
> ...
> 
> On my system, ip route list gives the same output as ip route list table
> 254. I would expect the same result on your system.
> 
> -wes

Dodo is a Fedora Core 1 network root system:
Linux dodo.w2.robinson-west.pri 2.4.22-1.2115.nptlcustom2 #1 Sun Jun 29
20:59:36 PDT 2008 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

[r...@dodo firewall]# ping -c3 192.168.1.1
connect: Network is unreachable
[r...@dodo firewall]# 

[r...@dodo firewall]# ip rule show
0:  from all lookup local 
32764:  from all fwmark 0x3 lookup 3 
32765:  from all fwmark 0x2 lookup 2 
32766:  from all lookup main 
32767:  from all lookup 253 
[r...@dodo firewall]# 

[r...@dodo firewall]# ip route show table local
local 192.168.3.1 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope host  src 192.168.3.1 
local 192.168.3.17 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope host  src 192.168.3.17 
broadcast 192.168.3.0 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope link  src
192.168.3.1 
broadcast 192.168.3.16 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope link  src
192.168.3.17 
broadcast 192.168.0.255 dev eth1  proto kernel  scope link  src
192.168.0.2 
broadcast 127.255.255.255 dev lo  proto kernel  scope link  src
127.0.0.1 
local 192.168.5.2 dev eth1  proto kernel  scope host  src 192.168.5.2 
local 192.168.5.3 dev eth1  proto kernel  scope host  src 192.168.5.2 
local 192.168.5.4 dev eth1  proto kernel  scope host  src 192.168.5.2 
broadcast 192.168.4.15 dev eth2  proto kernel  scope link  src
192.168.4.1 
broadcast 192.168.4.0 dev eth2  proto kernel  scope link  src
192.168.4.1 
broadcast 192.168.0.0 dev eth1  proto kernel  scope link  src
192.168.0.2 
local 192.168.4.1 dev eth2  proto kernel  scope host  src 192.168.4.1 
local 192.168.0.2 dev eth1  proto kernel  scope host  src 192.168.0.2 
broadcast 127.0.0.0 dev lo  proto kernel  scope link  src 127.0.0.1 
broadcast 192.168.3.15 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope link  src
192.168.3.1 
broadcast 192.168.3.31 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope link  src
192.168.3.17 
local 127.0.0.1 dev lo  proto kernel  scope host  src 127.0.0.1 
broadcast 192.168.5.15 dev eth1  proto kernel  scope link  src
192.168.5.2 
local 127.0.0.0/8 dev lo  proto kernel  scope host  src 127.0.0.1 
[r...@dodo firewall]# 

[r...@dodo firewall]# ip route show table 3
192.168.1.0/24 via 192.168.3.2 dev eth0 
[r...@dodo firewall]# 

[r...@dodo firewall]# ip route show table 2
192.168.1.0/24 via 192.168.3.18 dev eth0 
[r...@dodo firewall]# 

[r...@dodo firewall]# ip route show table main
192.168.4.16/28 via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2 
192.168.4.0/28 dev eth2  scope link 
192.168.5.0/28 dev eth1  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.5.2 
192.168.3.0/28 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.3.1 
192.168.4.48/28 via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2 
192.168.3.16/28 dev eth0  scope link 
192.168.4.32/28 via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2 
192.168.0.0/24 dev eth1  scope link 
127.0.0.0/8 dev lo  scope link 
[r...@dodo firewall]# 

[r...@dodo firewall]# ip route show table 253
[r...@dodo firewall]#

[r...@dodo firewall]# iptables -nvL -t mangle
Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT 576K packets, 127M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 
  879 66553 MARK   all  --  *  *   0.0.0.0/0
0.0.0.0/0  MAC 00:02:E3:02:C8:8F MARK set 0x3 
  144 10713 MARK   all  --  *  *   0.0.0.0/0
0.0.0.0/0  MAC 00:40:F4:2D:AF:5C MARK set 0x2 
   95 29259 MARK   all  --  *  *   0.0.0.0/0
0.0.0.0/0  MARK set 0x3 

Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT 576K packets, 127M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 

Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT 178 packets, 52674 bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 

Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT 552K packets, 151M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 

Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT 552K packets, 151M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 
[r...@dodo firewall]#

If I understand things correctly, when fwmark 0x3 is seen
routing table 3 should be used and when fwmark 0x2 is seen
routing table 2 should be used.  

If I do:

ip rule add table 2
or
ip rule add table 3

then this table will get used and ping works.  

I can't hard wire the route, sometimes packets will come from
web and sometimes they will come from xerxes.  Which
is why I have mac_route added to the firewall:

[r...@dodo firewall]# cat mac_route 
iptables -t mangle -A PREROUTING -m mac --

[PLUG] Routing problem...

[Michael Robinson]

[r...@dodo firewall]# ip route list
192.168.4.16/28 via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2 
192.168.4.0/28 dev eth2  scope link 
192.168.5.0/28 dev eth1  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.5.2 
192.168.3.0/28 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.3.1 
192.168.4.48/28 via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2 
192.168.3.16/28 dev eth0  scope link 
192.168.4.32/28 via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2 
192.168.0.0/24 dev eth1  scope link 
127.0.0.0/8 dev lo  scope link 
default via 192.168.4.2 dev eth2 

[r...@dodo firewall]# iptables -nvL -t mangle
Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT 388K packets, 95M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 
16154 6068K MARK   all  --  *  *   0.0.0.0/0
0.0.0.0/0  MAC 00:02:E3:02:C8:8F MARK set 0x4 
 3191  197K MARK   all  --  *  *   0.0.0.0/0
0.0.0.0/0  MAC 00:40:F4:2D:AF:5C MARK set 0x3 
  318 31032 MARK   all  --  *  *   0.0.0.0/0
0.0.0.0/0  MARK set 0x4 

Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT 388K packets, 95M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 

Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT 140 packets, 38019 bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 

Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT 371K packets, 109M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 

Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT 371K packets, 109M bytes)
 pkts bytes target prot opt in out source
destination 

[r...@dodo firewall]# ip route list table 3
192.168.1.0/24 via 192.168.3.2 dev eth0 

[r...@dodo firewall]# ip rule show
0:  from all lookup local 
32764:  from all fwmark 0x4 lookup 3 
32765:  from all fwmark 0x3 lookup 2 
32766:  from all lookup main 
32767:  from all lookup 253 
[r...@dodo firewall]# 

>From the above output, it seems that dodo should use 192.168.3.2
when the destination is 192.168.1.0/24.  That isn't what happens
though.  Even if I delete the default route it doesn't happen.
How can I make this happen?

I'm thinking I want to delete the default route.  I'm thinking
it comes from dhcp during boot.

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Re: [PLUG] Comments on double NAT...

[Michael Robinson]

On Sat, 2009-12-19 at 18:47 -0800, Mike Connors wrote:
> Michael Robinson wrote:
> 
> Web, Goose, and Xerxes are gateway, mail server/proxy, gateway
> respectively. This is the original network's means of accessing
> the Net.
> 
> I think this piece is complicating matters. It seems you've got multiple 
> NICs these boxes
> on different networks? Which in the absence of a router and switch/hub I 
> understand. But if you could
> centralize your routing it would make this a lot less painful.
> > In a nutshell, I want to be able to route from the original 
> > network in Scappoose, it uses black lines in the DIA diagram, 
> > to a host on the other side of the VPN tunnel implemented by
> > the FVX 538.  

Yes, I have multiple links where the diagram if the plug list
hadn't screwed it up shows that.  You can count the links
in the diagram and that shows the number of networks that machine
is hooked to ( treat the Net as one network ) which equals the
number of interfaces in that machine.

> Original network is 192.168.0.0 / 24?
> > There is also the problem of making 192.168.0.x and 192.168.1.x
> > link together ( Scappoose side both networks ).
> >   
> How do you mean?
> A router has a leg into both networks so hosts can communicate
> across net boundaries?
> Or do you mean by putting them on the same network by making the
> subnet smaller such as 192.168.0.x / 22

192.168.0.x/24 network was implemented by my brother for the Office
which was split off of the original network.  Dodo is acting as a
router.  Dodo has one leg in the 192.168.0.x/24 (or theoretically
it will have a leg to there) and two other legs to three other 
networks.  192.168.3.0/28 and 192.168.3.16/28 are accessible 
through one leg and 192.168.4.0/24, the network dodo boots over, 
is available on a third leg.  The diagram would help as it 
shows all of the switches, the FVX 538, the Linksys WAP11 between
web/xerxes and dodo, and the DSL modem.  The diagram also 
differentiates the links in different networks by color.

My brother's network is the FVX 538, a Netgear switch/802.11g
appliance, my other brother's computer in the Office, and a 
printer in the office.  The link from the Office to the server 
room, a wired line, was taken off of the original network to 
create this isolated network.  The routing is not centralized 
and that is confusing, but it can't be helped.  The Office 
network has to be reliable because it is being used by a 
business.  I just want to be able to go to the business VPN 
from the original network and I want to be able to instant 
message computers in the office from the original network.
I think that the FVX has the only static address in the 
192.168.0.x network and that everything else in the office
network is assigned by it randomly.  This could be a problem
because how do I instant someone on a computer that has a
random IP address?

In some ways it would be nice to say let's start over and go from
a parallel routing situation to a singular routing infrastructure,
but I don't think that's an option.  To some degree, the business
network has to operate independently of the original network.  This
is why my goal is to only allow instant messaging between Office
computers and original private network computers, at least initially.

I am going to put the DIA diagram on my global ftp servers because it
appears to be one of the only ways that I can get it out to people
reading the plug list that want to study it:

ftp://ftp.robinson-west.com/pub/robinson-west_com.dia

   or:

ftp://ftp2.robinson-west.com/pub/robinson-west_com.dia

The hardest part of making a diagram, finding the right
tool to diagram with and learning what to diagram.  I
don't diagram every single host, only the servers/routers
and maybe a printer.

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Re: [PLUG] Comments on double NAT...

[Michael Robinson]

Okay, a couple of points:

1) The FVX 538 is implementing a parallel and independent way to 
   access the Internet through a shared DSL modem on a bridged 
   subnet.

2) Web, Goose, and Xerxes are gateway, mail server/proxy, gateway 
   respectively.  This is the original network's means of accessing
   the Net.

3) 216.151.30.105 is the gateway at the ISP, Opus.

4) 216.151.30.111 is the broadcast for the global subnet.

5) 216.151.30.104 is the network address for the global subnet.

6) 216.151.30.110 is currently not used.

7) The FVX 538 is connected to a 192.168.0.x class C subnet that
   serves one of the rooms in the house in Scappoose.  I want the
   original network to be able to instant message at least with
   that subnet.

8) The FVX 538 is implementing a VPN tunnel to Minnesota and
   presumably there is a similar router on the other end taking
   caring of the far end of the tunnel.

9)  I don't want the non 192.168.0.x clients excluding dodo to
access the Net through the FVX 538 period.  These hosts
should only be allowed to go through the tunnel.

10) I am going to try to link a DIA diagram that should help.

In a nutshell, I want to be able to route from the original 
network in Scappoose, it uses black lines in the DIA diagram, 
to a host on the other side of the VPN tunnel implemented by
the FVX 538.  Green lines denote Internet subnet links.  A
dotted black line indicates a link from Dodo to the FVX 538.
A blue line indicates a 192.168.3.0/28 or 192.168.3.16/28 
link.  So, out of the tunnel through the dotted black line
cross a blue line and from one the gateway machines on the
original network go where you need to go.  I am planning on
exposing goose, web, and xerxes.  Possibly more hosts in the
future, but not now.

There is also the problem of making 192.168.0.x and 192.168.1.x
link together ( Scappoose side both networks ).

This problem makes my head hurt.  Renumbering my side may not be
such a bad idea after all.  I detect a few errors in the HOWTO
I mentioned by the way.  The hardest part to figure out for
double nat is what the source nat rule needs to be.

Okay, so the DIA diagram only deals with relevant machines on
the Scappoose side and does NOT cover the Minnesota side at all.
Right now, that side is a black box to me.
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Re: [PLUG] Comments on double NAT...

[Michael Robinson]

> I don't understand your network nor the logic behind it. It seems to me 
> that either you don't understand networking very well or
> just love to design overly complicated networks for S&Gs. NAT was 
> originally a hack to solve a very specific problem with the scarcity
> of IPv4 address space. There are certainly some good reasons for using 
> NAT such as:
> 
> - Internet load balancing
> - Intranet server/workstation load balancing
> - Firewall IP masquerading
> - Port Forwarding
> - Overlapping IP Address space with a VPN*
> 
>  From the info you provided, the last one seems to apply. A lot of time 
> in commercial enviros your stuck w. the ip addr space and so you employ 
> NAT has a hack. But I don't see any reason why you *have* to do this 
> with your network.
> 
> If you have routers in your network why use different ip networks in the 
> private addr space. You have the whole 10 network (10.0.0.0 to 
> 10.255.255.255) and also the 172.16. network (172.16.0.0 to 172.31.0.0).
> 
> It's your network so feel free to do whatever you want. But if you'd 
> like other people to help / advise you, you should consider designing
> your network simpler so that it can be easily grokked. If however, your 
> goal is security by obscurity, carry on...
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You understand something about it and this is a very rude comment.

The reason I have to consider double nat is that the person I want
to connect with is using the same RFC1918 network that I am using.
The alternative of course is to reprogram my end so it doesn't
overlap the other end, but that is a brutal solution that requires
me to go through multiple firewalls, dns servers, and check in 
other places.  The hope is that double nat is a reasonable solution 
that will be less error prone and easier to pursue than network
renumbering.

A more helpful comment than I don't understand anything is I
don't understand this or that.  Frankly, that is the truth.
If you couldn't tell from my diagram that the same ip network
is in use in 2 networks that are supposed to be connected
together, you are blind.  Granted, my diagram is crude because
it is trying to show a bit more information and like I said I
didn't explicity show all connections (but they are labeled).
The diagram is also crude because my information about the
other end is limited.

The reason NAT exists is the scarcity of address space and it
also exists to allow one to build isolated networks that have
some external connectivity to other networks.  Load balancing
is a routing issue, not a NAT issue as far as I can tell.
Having multiple Net connections and having to pick one is
most definitely a routing and not so much a NAT issue.

I don't try to create the most convoluted network designs I can
come up with thank you very much.  The reality is, I have a very
real world realistic set up.  Network root and growing a network 
complicate topology rather quickly.  I made a bad assumption up
front that I should use 192.168.1.0/24 for my network.  Network
root tends to create loops in networks.  What am I supposed to
do?  Am I supposed to add a dedicated server for network root
to avoid creating loops?  I have enough servers as it is.  One
of the reasons my network root servers are on a different network
is that I wanted them to be hidden from the Net (for the most
part).

It's quite simple, the remote site was using the 192.168.1.0/24 network
before I was, but I didn't realize this when I initially set up my
network.  At some point in time, I decided to add a second private
network in segments booted off of an existing server.  These are the
192.168.4.0/28 and 192.168.4.16/28 networks.  There are more segments,
but they aren't important to the problem at hand.  The only reason
I talked about those 2 segments is that the first segment provides
an alternate route to 192.168.1.0/24 that I don't want to use.  I
want to work everything through the routers on the original part
of the network.

Even if I were to go all out and try to use DIA to create a less crude
diagram of my network, I wouldn't be able to post it to this list.

Telling the other end, the Minnesota end, that they have to renumber to
fit into my private network so that no subnet boundaries have to be 
crossed is imposing a lot on them.  It generally doesn't work that way.

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[PLUG] Comments on double NAT...

[Michael Robinson]

http://www.iptables.org/documentation/HOWTO/netfilter-double-nat-HOWTO.html#toc6

I have a similar situation.  One network via a VPN is on the
192.168.1.0/24 network and my locally wired network is on the
192.168.1.0/24 network as well.

Let me try and draw a crude diagram of what is going on...

 John and Rita's house...

||
| 192.168.1.0/24 |
||--||
||192.168.1.35  ||
||--||
||
|
|
|---|
| Special Minnesota | 
|---|
|
|
|
Physical-Boundary-Physical-Boundary-Physical-Boundary
|
|
 /--\
 | Net  |
 \--/  
|  
|
Physical-Boundary-Physical-Boundary-Physical-Boundary
|
|In the Office...
|
|---| |---|
|   | | 192.168.0.0/24|
| FVX 538 Scappoose | ||-||
|   | || Netgear 802.11G ||
| 192.168.0.1 ! |--| ||
| 216.151.30.109|  |  || 192.168.0.? !   ||
|   |  |  ||-||
|---|  |  | | |
   |  ||-||
   |  || Andrew computer ||
   |  || ||
   |  || 192.168.0.? !   ||
   |  ||-||
   |  |---|
   |
  Server room...   |
   |
|| |
| Dodo   | |
| 192.168.0.?  ! |-/
||
| 192.168.4.1  $ |--\
| 192.168.3.1  * |  |
| 192.168.3.17 ^ |  |
||  |
|   |
|   |
|--||
| 192.168.1.0/24   ||
|  ||
|||||
|| Web|||
|| 192.168.1.1|||
|| 192.168.3.18 ^ |||
|| 216.151.30.106 |||
|||||
|  ||
||||| In Well house...
|| Goose  |||
|| 192.168.1.2|||   ||
|| 192.168.4.2 $  |-/   | Condor |
||||||
|| 192.168.4.18 % |-| 192.168.4.17 % |>
|| 216.151.30.107 ||| 192.168.4.33   |
||||||
|  |
||||
|| Xerxes ||
|| 192.168.1.4||
|| 192.168.3.2 *  ||
|| 216.151.30.108 ||
||||
|  |
||||
|| Bluejay||
|| 192.168.1.35   ||
||||
|. |
|. |
|. |
|--|

!  These addresses are in the 192.168.0.0/24 network.
*  These addresses are in the 192.168.3.0/28 network.
^  These addresses are in the 192.168.3.16/28 network.
$  These addresses are in the 192.168.4.0/28 network.
%  These addresses are in the 192.168.4.16/28 network.

I show the links between goose, condor, and dodo for emphasis, but
I don't go ahead and show all links for all networks.  In a way,
dodo and condor are part of goose as they get their root file 
system from goose.

BIG NOTE IS THAT GOOSE HAS 3 NAMES ;-)

Please note that dodo   is on $ network, boots via goose (192.168.4.2)
or gw2-s1.w2.robinson-west.pri.

Please note that condor is on % network, boots via goose (192.168.4.18)
or gw2-s2.w2.robinson-west.pri.

===

Can you see the problem from this diagram?  Question is, should I
renumber to get Bluejay to stop conflicting with the server on the other
network or should I go the double nat route?  

I'm thinking of using 192.168.5.0/28 on Dodo, NAT box 1, and on the
Minnesota side, NAT box 2 will need to use say 192.168.5.16/28.  So I
can map web to 192.168.5.2, goose to 192.168.5.3, and xerxes to
192.168.5.4.  On the Minnesota side 192.168.5.18 can be mapped to
192.168.1.35.  I am not currently source nat'ing on Dodo (except for the
route to goose) where I am concerned that it might screw things up.  I
want to route from Minnesota through either web or xerxes depending on
which one I am using at the moment.  So I source nat on dodo to either
192.168.3.17 or 192.168.3.1.  Let's say that the source from Minnesota
is 192.168.5.1.  The source from Scappoose going to Minnesota will be
say 192.168.5.17.  I'll have to check to see if I will be SNATing on the
Scappoose side from 3.x or 1.x.  The problem is, I have more routers
involved than the double nat HOWTO has.

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Re: [PLUG] Nano 2 back ordered...

[Michael Robinson]

On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 13:02 -0800, Russell Senior wrote:
> M> I tried to order two of them thinking I can link them together
> M> between the two buildings with WEP turned on.  Well, turns out that
> M> invictuswireless.com can't fill my order.  I asked how long the
> M> delay might be and if the shipping charges can be reduced since it
> M> will take longer to get it to me.  I missed the phone call
> M> unfortunately, but I got an email message.
> 
> Ubiquiti gear is great, but the one thing they haven't worked out is
> their supply chain.  You are often waiting on a boat from china or
> somewhere.  There are a good half-dozen or so places that sell these
> things and they tend to all run out at about the same time.  Invictus
> had run out (someone ordered 100 of them) the day I placed my order.
> 
> Whatever Invictus tells you about the delay, it'll be a wild guess.
> Ubiquiti's shipping forecasts have a history of slipping.  It's also
> not really Invictus's fault, so frankly I wouldn't expect a discount
> just because you are inconvenienced.

I originally asked for 3 day shipping, but I talked on the phone
with Invictus and asked for normal shipping instead.  He agreed 
that that makes more sense given the delay.  I could have canceled 
the order, but he didn't know anything about ethernet over power 
line where I'm concerned about how EOPL affects the electrical 
wiring.  A point to point link using 2 Nano 2's should work 
beautifully.  If only I didn't have to wait 2-3 weeks for the 
shipment from China to come in...

The nice thing about going the wireless route is that I'll be able
to roam between the buildings and be on line if I want when the 
weather is nice.

Someone suggested I could buy a cheap USB wireless card, but this
route even though it is a bit expensive has a greater chance of
working.  Getting 2 Nano's, I don't have to worry about Linux
compatibility.

I will hopefully hear about the order again in 2 weeks, but if I
don't I don't.

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[PLUG] Nano 2 back ordered...

[Michael Robinson]

I tried to order two of them thinking I can link them
together between the two buildings with WEP turned on.  
Well, turns out that invictuswireless.com can't fill 
my order.  I asked how long the delay might be and if 
the shipping charges can be reduced since it will take 
longer to get it to me.  I missed the phone call 
unfortunately, but I got an email message.

I found a crude trick to keep the RealTek wifi card 
associated with my WAP11.  I run a script every ten 
minutes to detect if the link is down by trying to 
ping the router in the next building and in the event 
there is no link, I restart the wireless card.  
Surprisingly, this works.  Thing is, the link is the 
weakest most useless wireless link I have ever worked 
with.  It usually says link quality is 96/100, but I
seriously doubt it ever is.

The ground frozen hard, I'd hate to try and dig a trench
right now.  Thing is, if I can't pick up outdoor rated
high quality wireless access points I might have to 
consider a plan B.

Maybe on Monday I'll have some more information about my
order and more options to consider.

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[PLUG] Can't find alsaconf...

[Michael Robinson]

What package in Slackware 10.1 provides alsaconf?

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[PLUG] What is POE?

[Michael Robinson]

Power over Ethernet and how is it implemented?  I'm tempted to grab 2
Invictus wireless outdoor WAPS, but I'm concerned about what POE is
since they use it.

http://www.invictuswireless.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NS2



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Re: [PLUG] Temperature and routers...

[Michael Robinson]

On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 20:34 -0800, Russell Senior wrote:
> > "Tim" == Tim Wescott  writes:
> 
> Tim> I've got about a 50 foot run between a Cantenna on the outside of
> Tim> a metal building and a router in my house; it's quite reliable
> Tim> except during heavy rains when I sometimes have to go around
> Tim> resetting things to get the network up and running again.
> 
> How did you seal the coax connections?  All outdoor RF connections
> should be waterproofed with something like this:
> 
>   http://www.invictuswireless.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TACTAPE
> 
>   http://www.fab-corp.com/product.php?productid=1734&cat=0&page=1
> 
> We typically wrap electrical tape over tackytape, because the latter
> will flow in high summer temperatures and the electrical tape holds it
> on the connector where it belongs.  Water in RF connections == bad
> news.
> 
> Good quality wifi antennas are inexpensive these days ($30-$70).
> Home-brew antennas are susceptible to RF leakage that you aren't
> likely to be able to see without a spectrum analyzer, so if you don't
> have one of those, it's a gigantic crapshoot.
> 
> If I needed to bridge an airgap, I would not walk, but run and get two
> of these:
> 
>   http://www.invictuswireless.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=NS2
> 
> In fact, I just ordered another one of them today.

Thanks for the info.  Price wise, I can pick up 100' Cat 6 
shielded patch cables for about $35 a piece.  If I go to the 
expense and trouble of encasing them in electrical conduit 
that I bury, there shouldn't be a problem getting a signal 
between these buildings.  I don't like that I'll have to 
worry about electrical and water lines and I don't like 
that the ground is frozen hard right now, but there are 
advantages to going this route if I can.  One possibility 
is adding a second Cat 6 cable for phone service.  Obviously,
I can't bury an Ethernet cable right now.

An option I'm toying with is to get a matched set of Linksys 
WAP11 version 2.6 AP's and replace the flaky RealTek card with 
a network card.  I then need a short crossover patch cable 
that is all weather and I'll need to build a weather proof box 
that will allow a wifi signal to go  through it which I will 
mount on the outside wall of the second building 
(A metal barn).  Even outdoors if they are properly protected, 
I think that these AP's will be able to link to each other
across a 70-80 foot air gap.  The advantage of going from a 
wireless card on the Linux box to a network card hooked to 
an AP in extender mode is that I don't have to worry about 
Linux being compatible with a wireless card.  Well, I can 
also hook two APs back to back with the outside one in 
extender mode and the inside one in AP mode which will allow 
me to move the computer in the barn to a better location.

BTW: Does anyone know what kind of connector the antennas are 
screwed onto on Linksys WAP11 access points?

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Re: [PLUG] Temperature and routers...

[Michael Robinson]

Some more info:

1:  It is roughly 71 feet from the sidewalk pad in front of the
pump house to the cantenna hanging on the side of the next
building.

2:  It is about 10' from the edge of the pad to where the linksys
router is at.  Figure 15' to be safe.

3:  The straight line from AP to cantenna is probably around 72.5 to
73'.

4:  It appears that the RealTek card on the Linux side likes to 
disassociate itself from the AP.

5:  The well is in a seperate room in the pump house and the building
is wood, so the wireless signal should have no problem traveling
through the walls.

6:  Because of the well, it isn't practical to bury an underground
Ethernet line between the pump house and the next building.  It
isn't practical to run an aerial line either.

Before I think, oh I'll just go to Ebay and get a new wireless card
such as an Orinoco gold card, I want to know if I'm close enough to
get a good connection.  I'm also concerned that my Linksys router
in the pump house is flaky because I'm having trouble accessing the
web page on it.

Humidity is going to be problematic because the signal has to travel
through the open air between these buildings.  It might even be a 
problem inside the buildings themselves.

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Re: [PLUG] Boot slackware 13 using loadlin...

[Michael Robinson]

On Fri, 2009-12-04 at 22:36 -0800, drew wymore wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Michael Robinson
> wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone gotten this to work?
> >
> > I have a serial ATA drive I wasn't using, so I decided
> > to install freedos 1.0 in the first 500 megs and use
> > the rest of the drive to install Slackware 13.  I was
> > lazy, I told setup to install everything.  Obviously,
> > I didn't set lilo up because I intend to use loadlin.
> >
> > Which kernel exactly do I need from the /boot directory
> > on my slackware partition?  I am not running an smp box.
> > I see generic and I see huge.
> >
> > The problem I'm running into is that loadlin fires up and
> > the kernel decompresses followed by the system resetting
> > and booting back into freedos.  I installed freedos with
> > just the base group plus gem.  Do I need to use the load
> > without drivers option in freedos or do I need himem and
> > emm386?
> >
> > What I'm after is seeing how Slackware 13 works before I
> > go and try to squeeze it onto a 4 gig scsi hard drive
> > replacing Slackware 10.1.  I need to make sure that the
> > Realtek 8180L pci card on that box will work among other
> > things.
> >
> > ___
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> >
> 
> Why not just use Lilo? It certainly provide a lot less headaches. Huge is
> the the kernel Pat recommends for default installs. Generic doesn't include
> as many of the modules IIRC but you'll need to decompress and read the
> config file for the kernel. Do you get a kernel panic or stack trace before
> it reboots and freaks out?
> 
> Drew-
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I'm leery of installing lilo because I have a Linux system
I don't want to mess up on another hard drive, a parallel 
ATA hard drive actually.  The system I'm studying this for
is a PII 300 that runs freedos and uses loadlin to load
Slackware 10.1.  I installed XOSL to that system where lilo
would possibly create a conflict.

As far as kernel panic or stack trace before reboot, it 
reboots too fast so I have no idea.

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[PLUG] Boot slackware 13 using loadlin...

[Michael Robinson]

Has anyone gotten this to work?

I have a serial ATA drive I wasn't using, so I decided 
to install freedos 1.0 in the first 500 megs and use 
the rest of the drive to install Slackware 13.  I was 
lazy, I told setup to install everything.  Obviously, 
I didn't set lilo up because I intend to use loadlin.

Which kernel exactly do I need from the /boot directory
on my slackware partition?  I am not running an smp box.
I see generic and I see huge.

The problem I'm running into is that loadlin fires up and
the kernel decompresses followed by the system resetting
and booting back into freedos.  I installed freedos with
just the base group plus gem.  Do I need to use the load
without drivers option in freedos or do I need himem and
emm386?

What I'm after is seeing how Slackware 13 works before I
go and try to squeeze it onto a 4 gig scsi hard drive
replacing Slackware 10.1.  I need to make sure that the
Realtek 8180L pci card on that box will work among other 
things.

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[PLUG] Need help with NET-SNMP

[Michael Robinson]

http://www.net-snmp.org

I want to use it to catch and log snmp messages from my
Linksys WAP11 version 2.6 wireless access point.

I'm finding the instructions very hard to understand and
there are some things I need to know that I don't know
how to find.  What version of snmp does my AP use?  Is
it compatible with net-snmp 5.5?

Does anyone on the list use this?

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[PLUG] Linux Unified Kernel...

[Michael Robinson]

What do people know about this project?  Apparently, the goal is to
extend the Linux kernel so that it is possible to run some Windows
programs natively.  I found out about it checking on the ReactOS
forums to see if anything positive had been posted.

One of the complaints about Linux is that it doesn't support 3D hardware
acceleration very often.  Why hasn't a company come out to design 3D
video cards specifically for Linux?  It seems like there is a real
business opportunity here.  I'm not an EE so I wouldn't be the one
to design video cards for Linux, but I'm sure someone is.  Owning a
licensed copy of Dirk Dashing and Rick Rocket, it is certainly 
possible to write games for Linux that people want to play.  I'm
thinking though that 3D hardware acceleration would be great for
CAD and CNC software as well.

I'm a little concerned about the idea that Linux should be able to
run Windows software natively.  I wonder if the efforts to have
Linux pretend to be Windows wouldn't be better spent writing 
replacement software that is meant for Linux in the first place?

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Re: [PLUG] Transparent Proxying... Resolved...

[Michael Robinson]

On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 17:14 -0800, Aaron Burt wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 02:44:37PM -0800, Michael Robinson wrote:
> 
> > Yes I did search the web and quite frankly most HOWTOs I hit are old or
> > they are for the 2.4 kernel.
> 
> I think Mike got you the right answer, but iptables's basic features on 2.4
> and 2.6 function pretty much the same.
> 
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Yes, I found out that my dansguardian exceptions were disabling the
filter.  I rectified that.  I added the incoming interface to my 
redirect rule, though I don't know why that is needed.

I did read something about doing this a different way and a patch
for the 2.6 kernels, but I haven't found out anything more.  I
think the new approach involves using the mangle table somehow.
It was on I think kernelhq.org, so I'm sure this other method 
is legit.

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Re: [PLUG] Transparent Proxying...

[Michael Robinson]

On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 11:37 -0800, Aaron Burt wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:50:09PM -0800, Michael Robinson wrote:
> > The redirect method:
> > iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -s $local -d ! $local --dport 80 -j
> > REDIRECT --to-port 8080
> > doesn't seem to be the accepted way to proxy anymore and it doesn't
> > seem to work either.
> 
> I can't offer much without context (i.e. what's $local?), and from previous
> discussions, your network setups are often baroque.  That said, that
> doesn't look right.  You're NATing the dest port but not the dest IP, so
> I'd imagine the packet still gets routed instead of hitting the proxy.
> 
> Kernel version shouldn't matter here - it's an ordinary NAT operation.
> 
> Did you follow a current HOWTO on tranparent proxying?  Did you search the
> web before asking?  When did you last attend a PLUG meeting or clinic?
> 
> Thanks,
>   Aaron

Yes I did search the web and quite frankly most HOWTOs I hit are old or
they are for the 2.4 kernel.

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Re: [PLUG] RESOLVED kernel problem mystery...

[Michael Robinson]

On Tue, 2009-12-01 at 14:42 -0800, Michael Robinson wrote:
> I'm still having trouble getting 2.6.27.39 to work with SLackware 10.1.
> 
> My initrd is created with this invocation:
> 
> mkinitrd -c -k 2.6.27.39 -m scsi_transport_api:aic7:jbd:ext3
> 
> I tried unzipping and mounting the initrd image, the modules are
> there.  Looking in modules.dep I don't notice any other dependencies,
> but maybe I am still missing something.
> 
> The aic7 module loads and it says the partitions on the scsi
> drive are sda1 sda2 < sda5 sda6 >.  So why when I get a kernel
> panic does it say the only options are sda1 and sda2?  It looks
> like the kernel isn't recognizing extended partitions at the
> mount root stage.  What would cause the problem of not 
> recognizing extending partitions?
> 
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Big hint is, don't use the old root= option with loadlin or your
2.6 kernel won't boot.  Why this is is beyond me.  

Now If I could just figure out why I'm getting an IO error from 
card manager for my ISA pcmcia card adapter.

Another mystery has popped up.  When I try to compile source
code for a realtek 8180 wireless card it looks at the kernel source
directory and then it deletes the source code and errs out.  Same
thing happens with qc-usb-0.6.6 source code.  Is the source deleting
because these drivers are kernel options now?

So I'm back at 2.6.10, groan.

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[PLUG] kernel problem mystery...

[Michael Robinson]

I'm still having trouble getting 2.6.27.39 to work with SLackware 10.1.

My initrd is created with this invocation:

mkinitrd -c -k 2.6.27.39 -m scsi_transport_api:aic7:jbd:ext3

I tried unzipping and mounting the initrd image, the modules are
there.  Looking in modules.dep I don't notice any other dependencies,
but maybe I am still missing something.

The aic7 module loads and it says the partitions on the scsi
drive are sda1 sda2 < sda5 sda6 >.  So why when I get a kernel
panic does it say the only options are sda1 and sda2?  It looks
like the kernel isn't recognizing extended partitions at the
mount root stage.  What would cause the problem of not 
recognizing extending partitions?

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Re: [PLUG] Trouble with 2.6.27.39 kernel...

[Michael Robinson]

> Grub and Lilo handle booting differently.
> 
> These are the lines I have. I don't need an initrd so that line is omitted.
> 
> image = /boot/vmlinuz
>   root = /dev/sda2
>   label = Linux
>   read-only
> 
> Did you run lilo -v after you compiled the new kernel and initrd? I believe
> make install when compiling the kernel auto adds the line entry to
> /etc/lilo.conf now so that shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> Drew-

I neither use lilo nor grub.  I use freedos 1.0 and 
loadlin with a directory that holds the kernel and 
initrd files:

loadlin.exe 2_6_27.gz initrd=initrd.gz root=/dev/sda6

and the above command fails with a kernel panic and a
warning that my method of indicating where the root 
is is deprecated.

I suspect the kernel should work with Slackware 10.1.
I grabbed an unzipped copy of /proc/config.gz from
the old 2.6.10 kernel and fed that into the 2.6.27.39
xconfig script.  In essence, I should have built the
same kernel with the same modules and any new 
dependencies should have been satisfied.

Do I label the root partition as ROOT and set 
root=LABEL=ROOT or something similar?

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[PLUG] Trouble with 2.6.27.39 kernel...

[Michael Robinson]

I'm trying to replace a 2.6.10 kernel on a Slackware 10.1 system
with a 2.6.27.39 kernel.  Well, I think I have a usable initrd.gz
and kernel now, but I haven't been able to boot successfully.
In the old days, you used to say root=/dev/sda6 for example
if that is the partition on your scsi disk that holds root.
I get a warning not to do that in the boot messages and it
doesn't work.  What is the new method of setting the root?
Do I need to boot with the old 2.6.10 kernel and label the
root partition with an ext3 file system label?

I did the following mkinitrd incantantion:

mkinitrd -c -k 2.6.27.39 -m jbd:ext3 -m scsi_transport_??:aic7 

... maybe I'm forgetting something...

Like I say though, I think I have the initrd and kernel image that I
need to boot.  I just don't know what the new method of specifying
the root filesystem is.

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[PLUG] Transparent Proxying...

[Michael Robinson]

seems to be done differently in the 2.6 kernel world.

The redirect method:

iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -s $local -d ! $local --dport 80 -j
REDIRECT --to-port 8080

doesn't seem to be the accepted way to proxy anymore and it doesn't
seem to work either.

So what level of the 2.6 kernel does one have to have to do transparent
proxying?  Some indications are that I need the latest version where
there are other indications that maybe I need a patch.

Any help figuring out how this is done these days would be very much
appreciated.

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[PLUG] RTL8180L Card...

[Michael Robinson]

Doing a cat /proc/pci my Zonet PCI wireless card comes up as a 
RealTek 8180L card.  Note the L, I think it means that this card 
is quite different from some other 8180 series cards.  I have a 
free driver from sourceforge that works on 2.6 kernels, but I'm 
noticing that it isn't perfect.  Randomly, the card just stops 
working.  If you are ssh'ed in over this card, you'll be going 
along fine and without warning everything stops.  I'm wondering 
if I should upgrade from 2.6.10 to a much later kernel because 
of the possibility that the driver won't compile at all for a 
newer kernel?

I tried to use a 2.6 kernel specific driver from RealTek, but that
driver is specific to the 2.6.9 Fedora Core 3 kernel and does
not work with 2.6.10.  Worse, I am not impressed with how this
driver was implemented as it doesn't plug in nicely with the way
things are standardly done in Slackware.

Most of the time when the card is working, I notice a 96/100 for
link quality.  When it is working, it works well.  That's the
trouble, it doesn't always work.

I am somewhat suspicious of my Linksys WAP11 AP, version 2.6 on
the bottom.  Power cycling it sometimes brings the link back up,
which seems odd.

I have rtl8180-0.21.tar.gz source code from sourceforge.  Is this
the latest version of this driver?  Is anyone maintaining this
driver to try and get it working with more of the 8180 cards
out there?  I have 3 open standard 16 bit pcmcia slots. I could
get a pcmcia wireless card to replace this one.  Question is,
what would work well in Linux and connect to my rp-sma pig 
tail?

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[PLUG] Linksys WAP11 and SNMP...

[Michael Robinson]

Looking at the bottom of my router, it is version 2.6.

I downloaded, compiled, and installed net-snmp-5.5 from
sourceforge.  I haven't a clue what the answers are when
I do snmpconfig.  I haven't a clue if I'll be able to run
snmptrapd and actually capture information from the
Linksys.

For some reason which I can't detect, I can't connect to
the web interface on the Linksys.  Lynx errs out with a
read error where firefox goes to a blank white screen
after trying for a long time to connect.  No packet 
errors are showing up on the router that this wireless 
AP is hooked up to.  I often get the authentication 
dialog, but not always.  I can't even connect via lynx
from the closest router.

I have no idea what version of SNMP the Linksys WAP11 
version 2.6 implements.  I have no idea if the SNMP 
software I installed on the router supports the same 
version of the protocol.

Ideally, I would figure out how to fix access to the
web interface and figure out how to configure the Linksys
via SNMP.  I'd be happy to get either method working at
this point.  Preferably, since the router is a headless
Slackware box that I ssh into, I want a command line tool
to configure the Linksys with.

While I'm at it, I'd love to figure out how to get WEP working
and I want to know why my wireless Slackware server in another
building frequently disassociates itself.

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[PLUG] Routing problem...

[Michael Robinson]

#!/bin/bash
#
PATH=/sbin

ip route del 192.168.1.0/24

route add -net 192.168.1.0/24 dev eth0 gw 192.168.3.18 metric 1

The above is a script that I use to switch the default gw on
a backside router Dodo.

D  W
|  |
|  |
|  |
|  |
X--GLAN

I have Dodo, D, connected to Web, W, and Xerxes, X.

G, goose, is connected to Dodo via 192.168.4.0/28 network. (not shown)

Web is in the 192.168.3.16/28 network.

Xerxes is in the 192.168.3.0/24 network.

Web, Goose, and Xerxes are also in the 192.168.1.0/24 network.

Traditionally, if web and xerxes were on the same subnet,
I might use a virtual IP address and route to it.  
I need to route from dodo based on the source the
packet stream came from.  When the gateway from the other
end is web, I can route to web from dodo and that will usually
be correct.  It won't be correct to route packets to web if I 
try to run horde on xerxes though.

The correct route can't be determined until I know which machine,
web or xerxes, is trying to go through dodo.  Yikes, how do I go
about figuring this out and untangling this ugly mess?  I literally
need to change the route to get to the 192.168.1.0/24 network from 
dodo on the fly.  I haven't even talked about tracking gateway 
outages on web and xerxes.  The above script has a sister script
that switches to the other router and I run these scripts via cron,
but that isn't a very robust approach.

I think I need to have 2 routing tables, the original one and a second
one, with the 2 routes to reach 192.168.1.0/24.  I then need to MARK
packet streams going through dodo based on which server by MAC address
the packets originate from.

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[PLUG] Upgrade nfs root system...

[Michael Robinson]

Is there a slick way to install a newer version of slackware to my nfs
root system?  I don't really want to go to the trouble of temporarily
dropping in a hard drive, taking it out, transferring the file system
to the server, etcetera...  It would be nice if the old version of
slackware could upgrade itself.

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[PLUG] Upgrading kernel on nfs root system...

[Michael Robinson]

I am running Slackware 10.1 and a 2.6.10 kernel.

I'm trying to compile the source for 2.6.27, though I wonder if this
kernel will work on this version of Slackware???

I think I left out transparent proxy support on the existing kernel.
Is there a way to check?

For some reason, it looks like dansguardian is running and it looks
like squid is running on this machine, but every attempt I make to
redirect tcp 80 traffic fails.

I am having a heck of a time understanding all the options in 2.6.27 
and I have not found the NFS root option yet.

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[PLUG] Cloning BattleTech I for Linux...

[Michael Robinson]

I'm working on a clone of Battletech I the Crescent Hawk's Inception put
out by Infocom in the 80's.  The clone is intended for Linux.  So far,
I'm starting very simple.  I've created a text file where I am creating
the dialogues for the training missions, etcetera.  I want to add a few
things of course, like the ability to use Pacifica's facilities after
the raid and I have some other ideas as well.  For instance, I'd like
to make it possible to get a Jenner or an Urbanmech by salvaging one
after destroying the Arena.  Essentially, it never made sense to me 
that you can't destroy the arena when you aren't renting a 'Mech.  It
also doesn't make sense if you have multiple 'Mechs that you wouldn't
be able to meet up with your team and fight the Urbanmechs outside the
Arena walls.

I want my version to be smarter so for instance you can listen to
the holodisk after it has been repaired in the ruins of the barracks.
I also want to implement shell counts for machine guns, missile
launchers, rifles, pistols, and bows so that picking up rare hand 
held laser weapons makes sense.  I believe in supporting four 'Mech
warriors as opposed to 3 and I believe in having the main character
train the doctor and the tech.

In the original game you have to find a doctor, a tech, a veteran 
'Mech warrior, and a regular 'Mech warrior.  The team when you find
everyone is made up of 5 people.  It should be possible to train
everyone in my opinion to use a 'Mech.

In the original game you have to get the doctor and the tech trained
and find the Star League Cache essentially, after you get some help
from Dr. Tellhim of course.  I want to change that a bit so that you
can use the 'Mechs found in the Star League Cache to say defend and
rebuild Pacifica.  Obviously, I want to copy the original game first
and then I can see about plot changes to make it more interesting.

I am interested in how to do the graphics for this.  I want to use
either X or I suppose I could use svgalib.

Ultimately, I'd like to release the source code for this so that it
is a free game that anyone can improve upon.  I am not trying to 
create a clone of Mechwarrior, there is a certain appeal to this 
old game.

One thought if I can clone this game successfully is to make the
allies and perhaps even the enemies real players.

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Re: [PLUG] Linus Torvalds & Richard Stallman for Nobel Peace Prize

[Michael Robinson]

On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 23:18 +, dco...@gmail.com wrote:
> Holy crap people!  The whole Nobel Prize is a joke considering it is named 
> after the man who invented high explosive.  
> The prize for peace is the least of the prizes to begin with.  Its money in 
> the hand and a fancy award and life goes 
> on.  Religion has nothing to do with it and please stop you are killing my 
> blackberry with this piffle.
> --Original Message--
> From: Michael Robinson
> Sender: plug-boun...@lists.pdxlinux.org
> To: General Linux/UNIX discussion and help;civil and on-topic
> ReplyTo: General Linux/UNIX discussion and help;civil and on-topic
> Subject: Re: [PLUG] Linus Torvalds & Richard Stallman for Nobel Peace Prize
> Sent: Nov 19, 2009 15:04

High explosives are not a direct threat to peace.  It is how they are
used that tends to be a problem.  As far as the this is not a religious
issue comment, where is your respect for the point of view that it is?
Can you offer a truly atheistic foundation for peace?  Without a life
ethic, can you promote peace?  Can you even explain how Linux is
specifically promoting peace in the world?  Is not promoting that one
Man be at peace with another promoting an ethic that respects human
life?  How can an atheist have such an ethic when Man's incredible
dignity stems from the fact that he is created in the image and
likeness of God and the atheist rejects God?

Can you explain how taking this thread any further on the Linux list 
is Linux related and appropriate?  I answer you here because you 
posted here and it only seems fair that a religious fight in the
public view be answered in the same public view.

Even if the origins of the nobel peace prize are a joke, it is seen
as an award that should go to people who actually promote peace.  The
concept of peace is a deeply religious one.  Anything that involves
human dignity is a religious issue.  Name one atheist living the
lifestyle that Mother Teresa of Calcutta did?  Linus isn't that
atheist.  Atheists do not serve the cause of peace because they
do not serve God through service to their fellow Man.  Indeed,
atheism is a barrier to peace.

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Re: [PLUG] Linus Torvalds & Richard Stallman for Nobel Peace Prize

[Michael Robinson]

On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 14:42 -0800, glen e. p. ropella wrote:
> I've (hopefully) planted the seed in a friend of mine who happens to be
> a professor of political science.  And I'll try to do the same with a
> few other friends.  I strongly believe that both of them should be
> nominated.
> 
> Thanks for suggesting this, Keith.
> 

Keith, you owe an apology to those who know that peace comes from
God and that atheists cannot promote it because they lack the life
ethic that theists have.

You also owe everyone an apology for bringing a deeply religious issue,
the nature and source of peace, onto this Linux list.

You are obviously an atheist Keith trying to hijack peace to make your
atheism look justifiable.  It isn't.  The least you could do is restrict
your atheists can promote peace message to the plug-talk list.

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Re: [PLUG] Linus Torvalds...

[Michael Robinson]

On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 14:09 -0800, Tim wrote:
> > You never had any respect for me or anyone else who believes 
> > in something, so what is your point?
> 
> Believing in something != belief in an imaginary omnipotent being

Only you say God is imaginary Tim, but I know better.

> > Linux probably would have come into existence eventually even 
> > if Linus hadn't been involved.  GNU and Richard Stallman 
> > contributed the tools after all.  Granted, it wouldn't be 
> > called Linux in that case.
> >
> > What has Linux done to avert the war on terror in Iraq and
> > Afghanistan?  What has it done to encourage atheists to be
> > more accepting of religion?  What has it done to advance 
> > feeding the poor, clothing the naked, burying the dead, 
> > etcetera?  What has Linux done to alleviate any of the
> > ethnic conflicts in the world today?  The answer is nothing.

> > Peace comes from God, you can't refute that Tim.  
> 
> Gibberish.  Beliefs like these corrupt.  They allow others to use you
> as a pawn.  The fact that you can't keep them to your self when they
> are completely unfounded is wher I see you've lost sight of reason.
> This is where all respect is lost.

Who Tim?  Get a life please.  Reasonably speaking, religion usually
promotes peace through service to your fellow man, so it is entirely
possible that God is the source of peace where his followers are 
to serve each other out of love for Him.  Most religions attribute
incredible dignity to Man and demand that we see God in each other.  
You don't know what you are talking about Tim.  Indeed, you probably
believe that all beliefs are corrupt.  You offer no atheistic 
foundation for peace.  I wouldn't expect you to, there is no 
such foundation.  To the atheist, Man is just a machine made in 
nothings image with no dignity whatsoever.  For an atheist, a Man
can do whatever he wants with his body.  He can abuse it, he can
harvests parts off of other people's bodies, he can kill other people,
he can do whatever he wants to do to the human body.  Because of this
lack of respect for the human body, atheists cannot promote peace let
alone offer a non sectarian foundation for it.

> You just have to understand that there are other points of view in the
> world and yours in God or god or other unfounded beliefs might just be
> making the world worse.

The Truth never makes things worse.  My beliefs are not unfounded, but
you obviously can't respect people who believe something.

> I know I'm not going to change mind about your beliefs, but I'm not
> one to let the vocal few loonies decide things for the silent
> majority.  

The silent majority that believes in God?

> Please leave religion off the list.  I do agree that talking about the
> peace prize on the list is off topic, but bringing gods into it is off
> topic and inflamatory.
> 
> tim

The Nobel Peace Prize should go to someone who seeks to bring God's
peace into the world.  I didn't bring religion onto the list, those
who pushed to have Linus get a Nobel Peace Prize did.  If instead
the talk was about Linus getting a prize that is not the Nobel
Peace Prize, things would be different.  It is not fair from the
religious person's point of view to have to endure an anti religious
God is not the source of peace commentary and not be allowed to counter
it.  This is one of the reasons why the Nobel Peace Prize should never
have been discussed on the main Linux list.  That is not my fault by 
the way, it is Keith Lofstrom's fault for starting the discussion.

A big hint that you are not respecting other people's points of view is
when you call someone a lunatic for believing something.  Another big
hint is when you talk about Truth without having any basis in reality.
Believing in a God that calls Man to respect himself and other people
is a belief that promotes peace.  Doing what God calls you to do NEVER
promotes war and chaos.  Indeed, God only allows chaos when it will 
open people's eyes and promote peace in the long run.  Not allowing
chaos means that the righteous would never be tested, not even if they
need the test.

Linus probably doesn't want the Nobel Peace Prize and he probably
doesn't deserve it.  Noone can make the argument that Linux
coming into existence alone has advanced the cause of peace.
As far as bringing people together, how has Linux convinced
atheists to respect theists?  How has it helped in arguments
about the existence of God?  How has Linux helped Man answer the
age old questions, "Who am I?," "Why am I here?," "Is there a God?,"
"Who is God?," and, "What should my relationship with God be?."
Linux hasn't been helpful with these age old questions.

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Re: [PLUG] Linus Torvalds for Nobel Peace Prize

[Michael Robinson]

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 21:52 -0800, Dr. Terry L. Bonner wrote:
> >
> > I further suggest that we take this to other Linux groups in the United
> > States and elsewhere, in an effort to get their support - and in the
> > hope that they too will push for Linus' nomination.
> >   
> It's a good cause.  And it is good for Linux too, IMO.
> 
A better cause is to pray for Linus' conversion from atheism to any
faith whatsoever.

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Re: [PLUG] Linus Torvalds for Nobel Peace Prize

[Michael Robinson]

> As the main Linux user group associated with Linus' current residence, I
> think it's appropriate for the effort to start here.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike

Linux is not a major invention, it is simply a free version of an
existing one called Unix which had many flavors in the early 90s.
I don't think Linus would want a nobel peace prize because he
would not see himself as being the sole force that brought Linux
into existence, and he wasn't.  The nobel peace prize should not
go to an atheist period.  Nor should it go to chairman Mao, though 
he's dead now.  Mao had a major historical impact on China, but it's
doubtful that the average Chinese person today would nominate him
for the nobel peace prize.  Heck, let's nominate Saddham Hussein 
for the nobel peace prize.  Atheists do not bring peace to the world.
When has Linus cared for the poor?  When has he prayed for the sick?
What charity work does Linus do?  People who don't believe in God are
not likely to be charitable let alone prayerful let alone humble.
Atheists have no respect for God creating them in His image and little
to no respect for other people's incredible dignity.

There is a prediction that a major economic crisis is coming that will
affect the whole world which noone will escape.  When that happens,
people will pray.  Indeed, I wish it was happening now.  The world
needs to be shaken to it's foundations.  There will be no peace in
the world until the people of the world accept God into their souls.

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Re: [PLUG] Linus Torvalds...

[Michael Robinson]

> Go Linus! and if he wins, seriously, will he deserve it any less that 
> Obama?  (Not a flame war,
> I actually like him.  He has a very hard job to do)
> 
> -Bill Ensley
> www.bearprinting.com
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Neither Linus nor Obama deserve a nobel peace prize.

Obama lost the Iraq war when we were winning there and he is losing in
Afghanistan as well where he has no exit strategy whatsoever.  Worse,
Obama wants to give terrorists rights and bring them onto American soil
where if they escape they can cause great harm.

As far as Linux bringing people together, it isn't promoting the cause
of peace.  Linus does not deserve that honor.  Mother Teresa and people
like her who believe in God and serve their fellow Man deserve that
honor instead.

Obama's job is hard for him considering that he can't make a major
decision without delaying for months on end.  He won't put more troops
in Afghanistan and he won't pull us out.

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Re: [PLUG] Linus Torvalds...

[Michael Robinson]

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 20:52 -0800, Mark Turner wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Michael Robinson
>  wrote:
> > has contributed nothing to world peace.
> >
> > He does not deserve a nobel peace prize.
> 
> > If anything, Linus may have created a boost for atheism which
> > threatens world peace.  Without God, Man has no solid reason
> > to respect himself or his neighbor.  Without God, there is no
> > happiness and no peace.  To an atheist, Man is just a machine
> > with no guiding ethic whatsoever.
> >
> > I never want to see an atheist get an award for anything unless
> > he/she leaves the foolish selfish notions of atheism behind.
> 
> 
> Umm... this is why I unsubscribed from PLUG-Talk, so I can avoid this
> garbage from you Micheal, please don't ruin the entirety of PLUG for
> me. Move it to PLUG-Talk.
> 
> -Mark
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No!  I have as much right to discuss this here as anyone else and I
won't step aside for anyone.  The following is crap and I didn't post
it.

"> But then Bill Gates will try to buy Sweden.

Nah,  Microsoft will just announce they have
a Scandinavian country 'under development', there
by causing people to cease considering current
Scandinavian countries as viable.
> 
> "
When it turns out that their low-budget development of the country of
Luxembourg isn't really technically "Scandinavian", they will simply
redefine the term "Scandinavian".

I think you make an excellent case.  Tovalds or Mark Shuttleworth would 
make excellent choices for a Nobel laureate, IMO.  Their contributions 
to humanity will endure long after most of today's major crises and 
concerns have crumbled into dust.

-- 

Terry

Sorry Terry, but you are wrong.  Giving Linus a nobel peace prize, an atheist,
would make a mockery of the award.  And oh, why is Terry allowed to be off topic
but I'm not???

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Re: [PLUG] Linus Torvalds...

[Michael Robinson]

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 20:36 -0800, Nye Walker wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Michael Robinson
> wrote:
> 
> > If anything, Linus may have created a boost for atheism which
> > threatens world peace.  Without God, Man has no solid reason
> > to respect himself or his neighbor.  Without God, there is no
> > happiness and no peace.  To an atheist, Man is just a machine
> > with no guiding ethic whatsoever.
> >
> > I never want to see an atheist get an award for anything unless
> >
> he/she leaves the foolish selfish notions of atheism behind.
> >
> 
> Please keep this on another discussion list, and NOT the main PLUG.  I have
> no interest in hearing your rants about god/religion.

But other people saying Linus deserves a nobel peace prize on the plug
list is okay?  If we are going to talk about peace, the source of peace
should be relevant to the discussion.

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Re: [PLUG] Linus Torvalds...

[Michael Robinson]

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 20:20 -0800, Bill Ensley wrote:
> > has contributed nothing to world peace.
> >
> > He does not deserve a nobel peace prize.
> >
> > World peace comes from God where Linus if I am not mistaken
> > is an atheist.  He is incapable of experiencing world peace.
> > As far as Linux producing world peace, it's use is still 
> > very limited in the world.  Microsoft still provides the
> > operating system for over 80% of personal computers.
> >
> > Sadly, the 11 or so percent that use Linux in the world are 
> > still a minority.
> >
> > Indirectly, Linux may be contributing to important research
> > that will help secure world peace by relieving the world's
> > dependence on OIL for transportation use.  The person who
> > would deserve a nobel peace prize though would be the lead
> > physicist/chemist/etcetera using Linux to solve such 
> > important problems.
> >
> > If anything, Linus may have created a boost for atheism which
> > threatens world peace.  Without God, Man has no solid reason
> > to respect himself or his neighbor.  Without God, there is no
> > happiness and no peace.  To an atheist, Man is just a machine
> > with no guiding ethic whatsoever.
> >
> > I never want to see an atheist get an award for anything unless
> > he/she leaves the foolish selfish notions of atheism behind.
> >
> > Linus Torvalds is no mother Teresa thank you very much.
> >
> >   
> Isn't there some tenant of the mailing list rules that would allow for 
> withdrawing this user from
> participating based on lack of topical discussion?
> 
> I don't even know where to start with this post, so I won't even justify 
> it's contents.
> 
> Michael,  if you want to talk about your god (yes, I mean lowercase) go 
> to church tonight.
> 
> If you want to talk about linux, stay focused on linux.
> 
> -Bill Ensley

Where else would I talk about Linus and the nobel peace price other 
than here?  I should point out that I wasn't the first person to bring
this topic up, I'm probably only the first person to say that he
doesn't deserve one.  And it's God Bill, not god.  Just because you
have no respect for your God doesn't mean that I lack respect.

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[PLUG] Linus Torvalds...

[Michael Robinson]

has contributed nothing to world peace.

He does not deserve a nobel peace prize.

World peace comes from God where Linus if I am not mistaken
is an atheist.  He is incapable of experiencing world peace.
As far as Linux producing world peace, it's use is still 
very limited in the world.  Microsoft still provides the
operating system for over 80% of personal computers.

Sadly, the 11 or so percent that use Linux in the world are 
still a minority.

Indirectly, Linux may be contributing to important research
that will help secure world peace by relieving the world's
dependence on OIL for transportation use.  The person who
would deserve a nobel peace prize though would be the lead
physicist/chemist/etcetera using Linux to solve such 
important problems.

If anything, Linus may have created a boost for atheism which
threatens world peace.  Without God, Man has no solid reason
to respect himself or his neighbor.  Without God, there is no
happiness and no peace.  To an atheist, Man is just a machine
with no guiding ethic whatsoever.

I never want to see an atheist get an award for anything unless
he/she leaves the foolish selfish notions of atheism behind.

Linus Torvalds is no mother Teresa thank you very much.

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Re: [PLUG] Response to Mogerly's threats...

[Michael Robinson]

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 13:42 -0800, m0gely wrote:
> Michael Robinson wrote:
> > lots more stuff
> 
> Just stop already. This is sad. Every single person here understands 
> this but you. You're welcome to post stuff that's related to Linux and 
> Unix here. Not gripe about why /you/ don't understand why some 
> university network isn't going to be available for day. You're being a 
> troll. It's off topic. YOU are off topic. YOU started this thread.
> 
> Let me help you. Say you want to post here, and you're not sure if you 
> should. If the post:
> 
> 1) starts with: "I wonder", "What if/are", "I think", "Why is/are" or 
> anything close to that, don't post it here.
> 2) mentions ReactOS, don't post it here.
> 3) complains that no one is emulating Windows to your satisfaction, 
> don't post it here.
> 4) really has nothing more to do with *nix than any other item in the 
> sphere of I.T., don't post it here. It's not the place.
> 
> No one cares about this stuff. Really. And threads like this have the 
> likely hood of finding their way back to you. You're going to find 
> yourself sitting in a chair in front of a PSU official asking you to 
> back up your claims about PSU staff. And when you can't you may not have 
> the choice any more to attend there. This is the kind of stuff that's 
> really going to get you in trouble.

Mogerly, why did you post a threatening email to me on this Linux list?

You could have emailed me directly, but no, you didn't do that.  

As far as having to explain my comments and not being allowed to attend
PSU anymore, I haven't specifically mentioned any professor by name.  
I have yet to name anyone specifically.  The only way to know who 
I'm talking about is to be a student or otherwise have information 
about who is teaching which class.  If I were to be kicked out of PSU
because I complained about a faculty member, I wouldn't want to stay
there anyways.

As far as the ReactOS comment, Linux+WINE is the alternative currently
where the question of why are ReactOS users commonly anti Linux is
very germane to a Linux list.  The question of should they be working
on Linux software instead of ReactOS is also germane.  ReactOS is
supposedly better than Linux according to many in the ReactOS 
community, why, I'm not so sure.

Linux+WINE still has problems with certain fonts in Microsoft Word and
other Windows applications such as Warcraft II simply do not work,
probably because of DirectX dependencies.  I'm not certain of this,
but I suspect that one can't use TurboTax under Linux using WINE.
There is opentaxproject, but they need someone qualified to add the
capability to do Oregon taxes.

I have a right to respond to a prejudiced atheist and to your threats as
well Mogerly.

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Re: [PLUG] Why are PSU network services...

[Michael Robinson]

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 10:04 -0800, Rob Saul wrote:
> m0gely wrote:
> > Michael Robinson wrote:
> >>  lots of stuff
> > 
> > The bottom line here is you're unqualified to to make these statements. 
> > You don't know what you're talking about. At all.
> > 
> 
> Not to mention the proper venue for this sort of
> issue is the PSU Ombuds Office : http://www.ombuds.pdx.edu/about.php

Oh, I'm sorry, if someone talks about God on the Linux list I'm not
allowed to respond here?  I did offset my comments so
people reading them could tell that it would be less Linux related
as they went down.  As far as I don't know what I'm talking about,
in what respect exactly?  Sure, get angry at the guy who tries to
respond but leave the guy who made the off topic comment in the
first place alone.

This is the Portland Linux Users group, not the Cincinnati or the
Louisiana or the Stockholm Linux users group for that matter.  Issues
that affect people who study computer science in Portland would seem
relevant now wouldn't they?

There is a fair amount of pessimism among my colleagues, specifically
I got to listen to a story of the professor from hell who didn't want
to teach anymore that wasn't available for questions.  I don't know
the professor myself, but I know of another one like I said that has
an anger problem.  Clearly, there are some faculty issues at PSU.  As
far as contacting the OMSBUDs office, are problems with 1 or 2 faculty
members really enough to go that far?  Who is going to listen to
complaints about the smoking shelters sending the wrong message to
people?  As far as mentioning that someone is rolling marijuana
cigarettes in class, I'm sure it's illegal, but again I'd have to
mention exactly who is doing it and there would have to be the will
to enforce the law.  I don't think there is.  The faculty problems
potentially lower the quality of CS courses at PSU and that in turn
affects the education of computer scientists which does not bode
well for this area.

I expected a higher class of people that leave drugs alone at the
Junior/Senior level at PSU.  Instead, I'm seeing just the opposite.
Where it was supposed to be easier at the higher level, I am
running into problematic faculty which is increasing the amount
of time it is going to take me to get through when I have to drop
them.  I'm starting to face problems with sequencing of classes.

If you want to pick on someone, why don't you pick on the so called
atheist for trying to start a back and forth religion fight on here
with his comments?  As far as not being qualified to comment about
PSU, who is if I'm not?  I am a student there, I go to classes 
there.

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