Re: [PLUG] [PLUG-ANNOUNCE] ANNOUNCEMENT: August PLUG Meeting: An Open Hardware Case Study: The AK-47
Guns don't kill people. Microsoft Windows kills people. Trying to get it to support legacy hardware nearly killed me. On 08/04/2014 07:09 AM, Keith Lofstrom wrote: > On Mon, Aug 04, 2014 at 12:15:39AM -0700, Michael Dexter wrote: >> What: Open Sourcing the Modern Battle Rifle: Legal and technical >> implications in home building the semi-automatic AK-47 > I propose we IMMEDIATELY move discussion of this topic to > plug-talk. It's gonna get loud ... > > Keith > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Creating a new launch item in Unity
Two things I hope can help - Regards the terminal app, one can define a keyboard shortcut to invoke it. Go to system settings, then to keyboard, the second tab should say "shortcuts". From there, the "launchers" group has a "terminal" app for which almost any keystroke can be defined. This can also work for any user-created app as well. - Regards creating new launch items, I've found it useful to add the 'alacarte' app from either synaptic (my preference) or the software store or apt-get. This is the old *gnome2* menu editor, invaluable for adding new menu items or changing the default options on existing ones. Other than that, you must manually create or edit a new "desktop" file in the usr/share/applications or ~/.local/share/applications folders. Which is often too troublesome for many users On 01/22/2013 08:16 PM, Denis Heidtmann wrote: > I am beginning to understand people's dislike of Unity. I use the > term dislike to be generous. > > I upgraded to ubuntu 12.04, and am trying to use Unity. Please > refrain from the cat-calls and I-told-you-sos. Humor me. Try to > help. > > I want to create a new launch item in the launcher, specifically > gnome-terminal -e virtualbox. > > The "help" says drag the icon of the application to the launcher. OK. > Create an icon. > > Using Dash, I enter in the search bar "terminal". I get two application > hits: Xterm and Uxterm. Neither of them are gnome-terminal which is > what is launched using the "terminal" icon in the launch bar. And a > search in Dash for gnome-terminal yields nothing. Yet top shows > gnome-terminal to be running when I use that icon, and "which > gnome-terminal" shows /usr/bin/gnome-terminal. wtf. > > Also, I can launch but one terminal from the launcher. I need to use > the first terminal to launch another. > > So I guess I need to find some non-gui way to put something in the launcher. > > I know most here know better than to use Unity, but if some brave soul > has some knowledge which might help, I would appreciate hearing it. > > Thanks, > -Denis > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Is it wise to add other DEs once Ubuntu 12.04 is installed?
On 11/24/2012 04:26 PM, C W wrote: > Thanks for the replies, everybody. Does restoring from a backup work > reliably? > > Just about every time so far for me. Some points to remember: > > IMAGE backups of a drive partition are much larger than backing up just the > data that comprises the system. You're also backing up all the unused space > on that partition. Thus the file produced is much larger than a tar or zip > archive so more space is need on the storage drive. Hard drive gigs are cheap > these days,even more so if you buy used at Freegeek or a factory > reconditioned drive at Pacific Solutions, so that should not be a problem. > > Backing up the drive's partition table helps avoid some problems that might > occur although such are rare. If your restore fails, e.g. if you boot and > GRUB fails to find the system files it needs, restoring the backed-up > partition table can help. > > It also helps to have a DVD or USB live copy of the main system you use. For > example if you're using Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, write that distro to a DVD/USB and > boot up with that. That way you minimize any problems that might arise by > using another distro while restoring. > > If even restoring the partition table fails, you can always reinstall GRUB > from that DVD/USB live system onto your drive thus: > > sudo fdisk -l # (to find Ubuntu root) > > sudo mkdir -v /Ubuntu > > sudo mount /dev/sda1 /Ubuntu #(where sda1 is the drive partition where your > restored system is located) > > sudo grub-install --root-directory=/Ubuntu /dev/sda #(where sda is the > physical drive where your restored system is located) > > Reading the grub-install man page before you need it and related online info > will help clear up any confusion about grub-install options. > > You probably won't need that latter hassle but it helps to have the > ammunition available if some odd issue surfaces and you can't get the > restored system to clear GRUB. With all those tools you can pretty much rest > easy that you can backup and restore your stable system without fearing its > extinction and the need to reinstall from scratch. > > > > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Is it wise to add other DEs once Ubuntu 12.04 is installed?
On 11/24/2012 02:06 PM, Dale Snell wrote: > On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 13:39:27 -0800 > C W wrote: > >> Is it wise to add other DEs once Ubuntu 12.04 is installed? >> >> Hey Everybody, >> >> I have a friend who installed Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on his work desktop PC. >> He's spent the last month or more getting his PC set up the way he >> likes it. The problem is, he's having problems with Firefox that I'm >> not having on KDE Mint 13 LTS. Also, he's not liking Unity, in >> general. He'd like to add Kubuntu desktop, or another DE. He's >> concerned that this might make things more likely to break in the >> long run. He might be right about that. He & I both like to err on >> the side of caution & stability, using only LTS releases, & sticking >> with an install for years, putting a lot of time & effort into >> setting up the computer just the way each one of us likes it. In >> other words, not the popular GNU/Linux geek bleeding edge approach. >> What do you all think? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Elcaset > If you're going to experiment with adding additional desktops or window managers (or even new applications that require extensive libs or other changes to your existing system) I find it helpful to back up my existing system first. On a regular basis, even if I make no significant changes to my installation. I use the command line utility dd to make an image file of the disk partition containing the system I want to back up, along with that hard drive's partition table. Thus: dd if=/dev/sda of=Ubuntu.boot.mbr bs=512 count=1 #(for the partition table) dd if=/dev/sda1 of=Ubuntu.img #(for the partition containing my main system) I keep my HOME directory on a separate partition of that first hard drive as well as reserving two other partitions of equal size to the first partition on that drive (a WD 120 gig Sata). That way I have two extra partitions to use to test new distros as they come along. All three installations can use the same HOME directory and files. If I need to remove either a distro being tested or restore the main system after I screwed something up, I have a known working copy of my everyday working system ready to reinstall simply by reversing the dd command thus: dd if=Ubuntu.img of=/dev/sda1 Keeping the backed up image on a separate physical drive (in my case a 250 gig WD Sata) also keeps it safe if and when that first hard drive goes poof. The above dd commands are predicated on my using a USB or DVD live system to log onto that 250 gig WD, which contains the image files. Hope some or this helps. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Underlying hardware in USB keys vs. CF Cards
On 05/18/2012 03:57 PM, Brian Martin wrote: > I'm considering a FreeNAS installation for a client. FreeNAS is *really* > built around the idea of separating it's software from the data, to the > point that it needs a dedicated "disk" for itself. The FreeNAS folks were > really thinking of this as being a USB key, since they only need 2G. I > don't really like the idea of using a USB key for this, because: > > 1) it sticks out of the machine somewhere where it can get > bumped/broken/etc. (Yes, I could arrange to have it on an internal or a new > USB add-on card that has an internal slot, but that seems like a bother). > 2) I'm generally not thrilled about a production machine's life and death > hanging on the reliability of a USB key. > > What I would really like to use is a CD-ROM, but the media needs to be > read-write, so that's out. There will be a small but steady amount of > writing to the media for logs, temp files, etc., so it's not static by any > means. > > I'm considering using an CF card instead of a USB key, but I am wondering if > the underlying hardware is really any different. Is it just a USB key in a > different package? Do any of you folks have thoughts about reliability of > these various media choices or others I haven't considered? > > -Brian > > > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > Have you considered buying an old used smaller internal hard drive and a Vantec USB-to-IDE/SATA adapter? Good used smaller drives are really cheap and the Vantec adapter is only a bit over $25. Instead of a USB drive sticking out of your machine, all you have is just another USB cable connected to the hard drive which you can place anywhere, top of the box, behind/beside it, etc. Plus you can swap out the drive for another if it goes belly-up or if you a have a need for another USB-linked storage solution without scrubbing out the FreeNAS installation. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Asus 1015pem running Xfce
I have never had reliably good luck installing XFCE LXDE or KDE on top of the basic Gnome or Unity Ubuntu. Going all the way back to at least Ubuntu 9.04 KDE in particular seems to corrupt something in Gnome fonts while its own fonts are clearly screwed up versus a Kubuntu Mint or Mepis KDE install. Try Xubuntu or Lubuntu. My favorite would be Lubuntu, specifying the LXDE shell versus the other choices at login. On 03/26/2012 05:20 PM, Denis Heidtmann wrote: > I installed Ubuntu 11.10. It comes with Unity. After some exposure to > Unity (see wireless comments below) I decided that Unity with its huge > icons and slow behavior does not suit a minimalist machine. I should try > Xfce. So I downloaded the meta-package xfce4. I really like it--fast and > does not fill up my small screen with stuff, but some of the function keys > do not do what is intended, the battery state is not available, the power > controls are absent, it does not suspend on closing the lid, and I suspect > there are other things I would find troubling if I continued. > > My first question is would starting over with a clean install of Xubuntu > 11.10 behave any better? Is it possible that there is an interaction > between the gnome/unity stuff on the thing causing a problem? I have done > some googling on xfce-ubuntu but have not found this problem exactly. I > see in the package manager that xfce4 is listed as "Canonical does not > supply updates for xfce4" yet xubuntu comes from Canonical and xubuntu uses > xfce! This is confusing. > > With Unity, after some considerable effort following the wireless trouble > shooter I got the wireless to work. I am not sure what fixed it since the > trouble shooting send me on a long path through various checks (lshw, > lsmod, iwconfig). But it worked after rebooting. The issue was that it > seemed to be using a driver (Ralink) for a 2800 card; it has a 3090 card. > My hesitation with starting over with Xubuntu is having to go through all > the wireless hassles again. > > Advice welcomed. > > -Denis > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Once again Linux has proven to me it is good for the career
Linux vs Windows and others My work and hobbies are a mixture of tech support, tech documentation, creative and political opinion writing. Though I started out in tech in the 80s' on a Unix System V at PCC Sylvania and my first internship and initial employment was in a Unix engineering environment, I migrated to Windows/386 for the GUI. For years I was a loyal adherent to NT 4.0 then Windows 2000, easily the most stable of their kind at that time. Unix at that time seemed so clumsy and overly complex for desktop work. It was only after XP and Vista started exhibiting video and driver issues and an unacceptable level of security vulnerability that I tried Linux/Ubuntu 7.10 'Gutsy Gibbon'., It too had a few driver issues (Nvidia) but Ubuntu seemed to be going in the opposite direction from Windows, i.e, improving. No more infernally intrusive MS anti-piracy routines that made system hardware upgrades a nightmare. Linux wasn't on a Microsoft-style crusade to make every piece of hardware I owned obsolete by refusing to supply drivers for legacy equipment. Two releases later, Intrepid Ibex just worked! Everything! All the time! Even my old Adaptec scsi card and the 10 year old HP scanner it fed. Flash forward to 2012, after all the changes and moves to a new desktop interface paradigm, I can't even imagine going back to Microsoft. For the very very few devices that only offer a Windows app (mostly automotive tuning and diagnostic stuff for hotrodders) I've got Wine or emulators. No worries hackers will penetrate my online banking or investment accounts or peek at my personal data. No fighting with the Microsoft gestapo when I change drives or CPU. Unlimited interface customization with a plethora of desktop managers themes and apps. Is Linux perfect? Nothing is. Does Linux meet the varied needs described above and then some? Beyond my wildest dreams. Would I use Linux if it cost $250 per 4-user license and Windows was free? Probably; it's that good. Oh and one more thing. I've introduced a few newbie users to Linux who either balked at Windows' price or just didn't know anything about software. For such newbies I've pointed them at either Xubuntu (XFCE) Lubuntu (LXDE) or Mepis (KDE) because they seem the most similar to traditional Windows. Haven't had one complaint yet, even from senior citizens. Linux must be doing something right. On 03/23/2012 09:20 AM, Mike Connors wrote: >>> A flip of Kirk's recent rant. > Although I have some CS studies and Linux/Unix admin work background, most > of my formal training and career has > been with Cisco& Nortel Network Engineering. > > My first encounters with Unix was with the SUN network management boxes we > used for managing the Nortel Passport > multi-service switches which I later discovered ran on Wind River VXWorks > embedded RTOS. > > I learned just enough about SunOS to navigate around in it and do what I > needed to do to get the net mgmt stations up and working. > > It wasn't 'til a few years later that I started working with Linux based > network management and troubleshooting tools such as > nagios, ethereal, kismet and nmap that I really began to appreciate their > value to my work. > > Since then I've always run Linux at home and have implored companies to > have Linux boxen connected to any network for performance testing, net > mgmt, > and troubleshooting. Although my current skill level as a Linux Admin is at > best at the intermediate level, being able to apply my understanding > of DNS, NTP, SMTP, Net Mgmt. and networking tools has made my work easier > and me more valuable. > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Ubuntu how-to documentation rant
How ironic! I had been under the impression that WAS my problem when was I trying to make Windows Vista work for me! On 03/22/2012 03:26 PM, Denis Heidtmann wrote: > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Russell Senior > wrote: > >>>>>>> "Word" == Word Wizard writes: >> Word> Some thoughts on the Unity/Gnome 3 change I migrated to Ubuntu >> Word> Linux about 6 years ago after being alienated by the total mess >> Word> that Windows XP/Vista had become. The Gnome2 desktop was easy to >> Word> master, not all that dissimilar from Windows. Then Ubuntu >> Word> introduced Unity about the same time that Gnome3 superseded the >> Word> old linear menus. I really disliked the new interface models at >> Word> first and wondered why Linux developers just couldn't stick with >> Word> the old tried and true. >> >> Word> A year of so later, my perspective has changed completely. I'm >> Word> currently using Ubuntu 11.10 w/Gnome 3.2 and the Avant >> Word> dock. After getting used to the change I'd never go back >> Word> (although Ubuntu 11.10 offers the option of the "classic Gnome" >> Word> desktop). The incredible flexibility of lenses combined with the >> Word> traditional linear menus and launchers in Avant makes just about >> Word> every task easier faster and more fun. >> >> Word> My advice to those who find Linux' general move away from the >> Word> old Gnome/Windows menu model uncomfortable is to just slowly >> Word> acclimatize oneself to them. The fully user-customizable Avant >> Word> dock (AWN) is a great tool to ease that transition as it offers >> Word> everything the old Gnome2 menus did and more. Gnome2 fans can >> Word> explore the new paradigm without being lashed to it for every >> Word> task. I suspect most users will eventually find themselves more >> Word> comfortable with Unity or Gnome3 and many will become happy >> Word> fans. >> >> Dude. This is called the "Stockholm Syndrome". >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome >> >> "In psychology, Stockholm Syndrome is an apparently paradoxical >>psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have >>positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of >>defending them." >> >> >> -- >> Russell Senior, President > > I do not doubt it, but if it were universally true, we would all be singing > MS' praises. > > -Denis > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Ubuntu how-to documentation rant
Some thoughts on the Unity/Gnome 3 change I migrated to Ubuntu Linux about 6 years ago after being alienated by the total mess that Windows XP/Vista had become. The Gnome2 desktop was easy to master, not all that dissimilar from Windows. Then Ubuntu introduced Unity about the same time that Gnome3 superseded the old linear menus. I really disliked the new interface models at first and wondered why Linux developers just couldn't stick with the old tried and true. A year of so later, my perspective has changed completely. I'm currently using Ubuntu 11.10 w/Gnome 3.2 and the Avant dock. After getting used to the change I'd never go back (although Ubuntu 11.10 offers the option of the "classic Gnome" desktop). The incredible flexibility of lenses combined with the traditional linear menus and launchers in Avant makes just about every task easier faster and more fun. My advice to those who find Linux' general move away from the old Gnome/Windows menu model uncomfortable is to just slowly acclimatize oneself to them. The fully user-customizable Avant dock (AWN) is a great tool to ease that transition as it offers everything the old Gnome2 menus did and more. Gnome2 fans can explore the new paradigm without being lashed to it for every task. I suspect most users will eventually find themselves more comfortable with Unity or Gnome3 and many will become happy fans. On 03/21/2012 10:43 PM, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:57:08 -0700 > Denis Heidtmann dijo: > >> What is the desktop you are using now? > Xfce on my Fedora laptop, Gnome 2.30 on Lucid desktop. > > I stuck with Fedora 14 on the laptop as long as I could, knowing that I > would not like Gnome 3 (tried it with live CDs). When I had to upgrade > to Fedora 16 I installed Xfce first and got it all configured the way I > wanted it. I still have Gnome 3 on Fedora 16, but I have yet to log in > to it. > > I have also seen Unity via live CD and I don't care much for it. In > another month Precise will be out to replace Lucid on the desktop. I'm > debating what to do. The desktop is used only for streaming radio, > playing videos, and as a backup to get on the net when I mess up the > laptop. It has no data and little in the way of programs and > configurations. I think I'm going to wipe it out and install Precise > Xubuntu. Or maybe I'll go to Mint, if I can find a recent LTS version > with an Xfce spin, since I need audio and video support. But Mint has > an ugly, stupid logo and I don't want to have to stare at puke green. > It's hard to choose these days, because I have to satisfy the highly > opinionated artist living inside me. > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Cheap drives in PDX
Pacific Solutions , SE Division & 52nd. I've even bought reconditioned drives and other equipment ( video cards, MoBos) there and they never ever fail. Superb technical advice, free of charge http://www.pacificsolutions.com/ >> Where would be the cheapest place to get a SATA HDD? Doesn't have to be >> huge. >> ___ >> PLUG mailing list >> PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org >> http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug >> > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Natty is here; Update
I'm not a big fan of the new "landscape" monitors. I use an older 4:3 20 inch LCD because I like the vertical space for text reading/writing work. I dread the day it gives out because only the band-aid form-factor monitors seem to be available now. They don't deliver the vertical size I like without going into something like a 27 inch or larger, a seriously spendy proposition. The 16:9 monitor may be great for watching movies online or for HD gamers but that's what I have a TV for; a 4:3 form-factor makes more sense for my desktop PS use. I can see where the Unity interface is well suited for the 16:9 style though. There really isn't much else to do with that extra space on the left (unless one has a LOT of desktop icons) so moving a panel from top to side is logical. Unity seems to be working out as it was intended and the rest of Ubuntu 11.4 has settled down to the point where I can rely on it. On 05/04/2011 07:45 PM, Erik Lane wrote: > I wanted to wait until I had spent enough time with it to get a better > impression, but overall I'm very happy with it. I *LIKE* that it got rid of > some of the bars on top and bottom that were valuable space to me. The > pop-up menu bar and having the launcher on the side are both great > improvements, in my book. I have a widescreen monitor, and vertical space is > much more crowded. Having the launcher on the side uses a part of the screen > that normally gets much less use on my computer than most of it. I'm loving > the difference. I think that Ubuntu is going in a good direction - I can > still get to low level stuff if I need to, but so far everything has worked > so well out of the box that I haven't had to do much command line. It's > still been easy to get to for the couple of things I've needed. > > Short story - I'm sold on it. > > Erik > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Natty is here; Update
Update on Ubuntu 11.4 install Regarding my previous fine whines about the bugs in the latest Ubuntu release, Natty 11.4, out of fairness I felt I should present my subsequent experiences with the Unity desktop version. The display bugs and performance disappointments I encountered upon first install have been extinguished with a week's worth of Ubuntu updates. The one remaining snag, not being able to define alternate mount points in the installer, is a major one for novices, but obviously cannot be remedied without an entire new release .iso. Now that Natty seems to have settled down, apparently it does deliver performance superior to its predecessors. Whether due to the new compiz-based graphics instead of mutter or some other change I can't say but display speed is noticeably improved with Unity. Ubuntu forums seem to indicate problems with Natty "Classic" (the old Gnome-ish interface) but at least Unity delivers on its promise of speed. Also, possibly related, I've found that Natty's LibreOffice loads its initial invocation much faster than OpenOffice. So much so that I've abandoned GEdit Geany and Kate and use Libre Office Writer for all my work, text as well as word processing and HTML; it's really just as fast and clean as GEdit. That alone justifies the switch to 11.4 for me. The new Unity side panel still takes some getting used to but at least it works as advertised now, my old favorite Avant panel coexists perfectly with it and the improved Natty graphics makes the Unity app menu as fast as the old Gnome-panel, even with the extra mouse click. On 05/03/2011 09:04 AM, Russell Johnson wrote: > On May 2, 2011, at 9:22 PM, Mike Connors wrote: > >> Fedora on my T60 performed horrendously. > While I do not have much experience installing on many laptops, I can speak > to Redhat/CentOS/Fedora. > > I shy away from Fedora, just as I shy away from a .0 release of most > software. Fedora is, as Redhat puts it, The community, bleeding edge > distribution. I read that as, "We test things here. Don't expect everything > to work." Some have very good luck with it. I choose to not put myself in > that position. I need my computer to work, for work. > > CentOS, on the other hand, is RHEL, without any of the RedHat proprietary > stuff. It should be, and in my experience is, very stable. I've installed it > on various hardware without issue. The CentOS team takes the RHEL open source > tree, and reconstitutes it. > > RPM has it's issues. So does dpkg/apt-get. So does the windows registry. All > can be worked around. > > All OSes suck. Some just suck worse than others. :) > > Russell Johnson > r...@dimstar.net > > > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Natty is here
/The best thing about Linux. If you don't like one flavor, there are 50 others. Whereas with Windows, the user is stuck with whatever Steven Ballmer deems they should have. Linux has about a dozen desktops, Unity, Gnome Shell, KDE, lxde, xfce and more, two package management systems, several display managers and countless variations and themes for all. Whatever one's opinion of Ubuntu Natty, one need never resort to Redmond to find a useful alternative. / On 05/02/2011 09:14 PM, Mike Connors wrote: > On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Mike Connors wrote: >> If there's any truth to what's in this article than Unity and Linux >> consumer-oriented desktop is the direction Shuttleworth plans to take >> Ubuntu. >> >> => Shuttleworth opened by saying that the main point of Ubuntu 11.04 >> with Unity was “to bring the joys and freedoms and innovation and >> performance and security that have always been part of the Linux >> => platform, to a consumer audience.” >> >> It also says that Ubuntu did do R&D with real users, they borrowed >> what worked from MS Win and Mac OS and then added "bold innovative" >> evolutionary developments of their own. >> >> => How did Canonical do it? Shuttleworth explained that it was a >> combination of user design testing with professional design work. “We >> committed to test and iterate Unity’s design with real users, and >> =>evolve it based on those findings. >> => Humble, because we have borrowed consciously from the work of other >> successful platforms, like Windows and Mac OS. We borrowed what worked >> best, but then we took advantage of the fact that we => are >> unconstrained by legacy and can innovate faster than they can, and >> took some bold leaps forward. >> >> Sounds like a recipe for disaster. >> > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Natty is here
Therein lies the rub. Either the OS is designed for newcomers or Linux or veteran users. Right now Natty seems totally hostile to the former while a pain in the backside from at least some veteran users. I'm no MS/CS sys-admin but I'm not a Linux or Ubuntu newbie either. I love the ease of installation and slick operation of Jaunty-Lucid-Maverick as well as the Linux power. Natty has the power of the underlying Linux system with none of the convenience of its recent predecessors. I'm still trying to work through Natty's shortcomings (in Gnome; I've totally forsaken its hopelessly botched KDE implementation) but as yet I fail to see anything in Natty that isn't done as well or better by Jaunty-Lucid-Maverick. An extra mouse stroke to invoke an app is not an improvement in my book and I don't think Windows users will see that as one. Maybe Shuttleworth's Ubuntu is like any other empire that grew too powerful too quickly. Ubuntu lost sight of achieving worthy desirable goals and chose instead to do whatever it wanted regardless of what was desirable, simple because it had the power to do so. On 05/02/2011 09:58 AM, Mike Connors wrote: > . An in-depth study of the reactions and problems >> of new desktop users, comparing Unity, Gnome, KDE, and a few others, >> would be very revealing. >> >> I won't speculate as to the outcome. I only wish to point out that >> without some scientific evidence, everything that people say pro and >> con Unity is wild ass speculation. Whether you or I personally like it >> or not is irrelevant. Ubuntu's goal is to make Linux usable on the >> desktop for newcomers to Linux. Those users are the ones whose opinion >> matters. > To the best of my knowledge, Ubuntu really seems to be driving the > "average jane desktop user" development. If we > all want to see the Linux community grow than this work needs to > happen. Historically, desktop usability has > not received a lot of care and attention as most developers wanted to > work on the kernel, drivers, etc. > Which needed to be done. What's the point of worrying about how the > dashboard in your car looks / feels if the engine keeps stalling > and the tires fall off. > > -Mike > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Natty issues
I run Maverick (Ubuntu 10.10) w/Gnome and the Avant panel. It is absolutely perfect in every aspect, so far superior to Windows I would not run W7 even if it were free. I use some KDE apps like the K3B burner and I even ran the pre-release Gnome3/Gnome shell with not one problem. Fast, totally bug free. I wanted to sample the new Libre Office, Grub upgrade and KDE 4.6 with the new Qt 4.7 but this mess of U/11.4 is not worth the hassle. I'll wait to see what Mepis 11.0 and/or Mint looks like. On 05/02/2011 07:04 AM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: > > I am listening to all the chatter.. > > I am running Lucid and guess I will just continue. > > It works fine and updates once a week. > > > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Natty issues
The installer had the correct resolution, possibly because I edited the boot-loader menu with the vga=795 command line addition. However, the installation came up 640x480 with 320x240 as the only option, regardless of any command line edits. I managed to download and install the latest NVidia driver. Not that it did much good. It allowed me to adjust the resolution to what I used in prior Ubuntu/Kubuntu installations but didn't allow saving that configuration for subsequent sessions. The "save" dialogue appeared but did not allow saving the Xorg config file. Even invoking nvidia-settings as root did not help. That meant I'd be forced to re-adjust back from the standard 640x480 each session. Not impossible of course, but a pitiful step backward from the easy NVidia configuration of Jaunty Lucid and Maverick. Even then, the display was corrupted when I invoked KDE's konsole app, perhaps because I had reconfigured the font size. I could hack all this. I could install (as root) a prior xorg config file which had the appropriate resolutions that I generated in Mepis 8.0. I could edit the fstab file to set up my preferred mount points. But why bother? Those fundamental mechanisms, as well as the numerous desktop bugs in Unity, should be fully operative in the installation of any respectable release. Shuttleworth will sure alienate any potential convert from Windows7 with this ungodly mess, and for what purpose? Worse, the rumor is that the next Ubuntu release will abandon the "classic" (i.e., Gnome-like) interface altogether, leaving Unity as the only desktop. Beyond that, Shuttleworth is allegedly planning to replace X with something called Wayland. Given the hideously botched disaster he produced with the switch away from Gnome, one can only imagine what an entirely new graphics engine will look like coming from that team. I give Shuttleworth great credit for bringing Linux to the average desktop user wanting something more than Windows. Too bad he couldn't rein in his ego long enough to perfect what he had produced, instead of wandering off to create something nobody was asking for in a package that doesn't even work as well as a sophomore programming class project. On 05/02/2011 12:01 AM, Jason Barnett wrote: > I have been using Kubuntu 11.04 since Alpha 2 and have had almost no > problems at all. Are you saying that the installer is at 640x480 with > Nvidia or is that after the install is done and you boot into it for the > first time? I'll give it a go on my system and see what happens. If it is > at the first boot, is it using the nouveau driver or the proprietary Nvidia > driver? > > Jason ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Natty issues
An absolutely HIDEOUS release! And I say that as long time Ubuntu fan, converted from Windows XP/Vista by Gutsy Gibbon The Kubuntu (KDE 4.6) version is totally unusable for NVidia cards. Kubuntu installs in 640x480 video mode and refuses to allow the upgraded driver NVidia administrative module to save a higher resolution for subsequent sessions. Even worse, that higher resolution corrupts terminal displays, which eventually leak out into the entire display in what resembles that old analog TV "snow". KDE panel and desktop functions are hopelessly crippled by this problem as well. This Kubuntu release is at best an alpha-2. Certainly not even a beta, much less an RC. The Ubuntu (nee Gnome) version installer does not allow for keyboard input to define mount points for other partitions, forcing the user to edit the /etc/fstab file to accomplish that fundamental operation. That's fine for those of us who have some Linux-Unix experience but new users will be befuddled, then angered, then disgusted. The installation itself still has numerous bugs in the desktop, with little if any of the claimed performance improvement the switch to Unity was supposed to bring. As for the Unity interface itself, who told Shuttleworth that adding a mouse click or keystroke to invoke an app was an improvement? If a user likes that silly little tattoo band running up the left side of their screen they can opt for a far more functional analogue by downloading the Avant panel, which offers far more utility, customization and stability. Mark Shuttleworth should be ashamed to have this abortion bear the name of an official Ubuntu product. Natty is a grotesquely classic case of fixing what was not broken, a pervasive philosophical weakness that the Ubuntu team has shown before, when adding then crippling than removing desirable features for no apparent reason other than programmer ego. This ugly "release" has led me to take another look at viable Debian-based alternatives such as Mint and Mepis. Maverick (Ubuntu 10.10) with Gnome works very well for me but if Natty is the direction Shuttleworth is taking, I don't want to be forced to use outdated OS software or live with a bug-infested freakish exercise in geek ego-tripping. On 04/30/2011 01:29 PM, Bill Morita wrote: > I am having issues with Natty. > > Neither the Home key nor the Windows (meta) key works as advertised. > In fact a lot of the "short cut" keys to not seem to function. > I have even tried plugging in a second keyboard. No joy. > > I do not seem to have a way to get the launcher. > Yes, I can get a command window (cntl+alt+T), but the whole point of a GUI is > to not need > the command line. > > Anyone else seen these issues ? > > - Bill Morita > wamorita At gmail.com > 907-243-0199 > 907-952-9948 Cell > > > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] A little something for everyone
Oh LORD! Talk radio-style political correctness and argument. Even here. I have one word of advice for those naive if courageous Arabs fighting to install American-style democracy in their homeland: DON'T! On Sat, 2011-03-05 at 11:05 -0800, Alex Young wrote: > On Sat, Mar 5, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Bill Ensley wrote: > > > Your post is offensive and discriminatory. > > > > I don't care what anyone else on this list says. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Is Linux only for nerds?
On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 13:18 -0800, Russell Senior wrote: > >>>>> "Word" == Word Wizard writes: > > Word> Feedback from a non-nerd > Word> > Word> I'm not a Linux nerd or any kind of computer or technology > Word> nerd. [...] > > Word> I might have been more of a nerd code-wise with Windows, because > Word> it had no useful shell programming. More often than I liked, I > Word> was forced to create something in MS Access or Virtual Basic or > Word> Java [...] > > Dude. You are a nerd. > > ;-) > > One more valuable aspect of this discussion group. Not only do I find out things about Linux that I didn't know, I also discover things about myself I didn't know! ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Is Linux only for nerds?
On Fri, 2011-02-11 at 11:14 -0800, Paul Heinlein wrote: > On Fri, 11 Feb 2011, Word Wizard wrote: > > > Feedback from a non-nerd > > > > I'm not a Linux nerd or any kind of computer or technology nerd. I > > have nothing against nerds; I just don't want to be one. Or even be > > thought of as a nerd. I migrated to Ubuntu Linux years ago after > > mounting problems with Windows XP and total frustration with the > > basket case MS Vista was. I build my own PCs from scratch with parts > > from Pacific Solutions and ENU [] > > I'm unsure about your definition of "nerd," but my guess is that an > extremely large percentage of the American population would apply that > term to someone who builds PCs from scratch. :-) > I guess I was thinking of the term applying to people who build their own kernels or write complex apps in Python or such. What code I write these days is in bash-shell, yet another advantage I find in Linux vs. Windows. Nearly everything I need to do can be done with off-the-shelf open-source apps right out of the repos or, at worst, on the command line. One or two apps may not be there and those I can get and install as a .deb file, e.g., Googlearth. I have WINE or virtualbox for the rare need that might mandate Windows but that situation has yet to appear. For systems that others may use who prefer the look and feel of Windows 7, Vista, XP, Win2K, NT, Win95/98, Windows 3.1, OS/2 or AppleOS, I can create near twins to those OSes using and tuning the various window managers available in Ubuntu or other Debian distros. I might have been more of a nerd code-wise with Windows, because it had no useful shell programming. More often than I liked, I was forced to create something in MS Access or Virtual Basic or Java because the underlying system was so lame and the appropriate commercial application was more costly than I thought necessary. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Is Linux only for nerds?
Feedback from a non-nerd I'm not a Linux nerd or any kind of computer or technology nerd. I have nothing against nerds; I just don't want to be one. Or even be thought of as a nerd. I migrated to Ubuntu Linux years ago after mounting problems with Windows XP and total frustration with the basket case MS Vista was. I build my own PCs from scratch with parts from Pacific Solutions and ENU so I need an OS that does not need to be installed and burned-in to flawless behavior by a team of computer engineering PhDs at H-P or Dell. Windows may be great factory-installed but it is far worse than any Debian distro if you need to make it work well on a home-rolled machine. Windows refuses to support legacy hardware, probably the cynical self-serving trade-off Microsoft made with hardware vendors to get that special inside hardware info. Why should I junk perfectly good scanners, SCSI cards and printers to make Microsoft and their hardware partners richer? Especially when I don't need to. The non-free nVidia driver works right out of the box with no tuning, ditto all my hardware 15 years old or cutting edge. I have not had a problem with Flash since the Jaunty release, the 32- or 64-bit versions. I use them all the time to access and download music videos and audio files. Ditto the sound driver, which is more than could say for Vista. I don't do video games apart from passing time with solitaire or the like so maybe the gamers out there need to stick with Windows. In fact, given that a Linux strength is the superior security it offers due to the comparatively minuscule number of non-Windows machines making Linux less interesting to the dolts who write and deploy malware, I hope Linux never seriously challenges Windows' user base. Right now Linux seems to have the optimum number of users, enough to support a plethora of apps and drivers but insufficient to attract the mindlessly destructive. May it always be so! ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Question on Ubuntu repositories
I had a feeling it was something simple and basic I was missing. That was what I needed. Thanks! On Thu, 2011-01-06 at 19:23 -0800, Sam Hart wrote: > On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 6:58 PM, Word Wizard > wrote: > > I can't find a way to output a list of ALL Ubuntu repositories to > > stdout. The apt/get/sources.list does not show added third party > > repositories like googleearth and the like. I can see them with the > > Software Sources app or through Synaptic but there seems to be no > way to > > treat the entire repository list as text, only as a graphical > > screenshot file. Apt seems to have no "list" feature. > > > > I want a text file of the entire repository list to save so I can > cut 'n > > paste the desired third party additions to later installs > > > > Is there another file for added third party repositories? > > They should all be found in > > * /etc/apt/sources.list > > and then in the files in > > * /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ > > Specifically, the third party ones will be in the latter. > > ---Sam ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Question on Ubuntu repositories
I can't find a way to output a list of ALL Ubuntu repositories to stdout. The apt/get/sources.list does not show added third party repositories like googleearth and the like. I can see them with the Software Sources app or through Synaptic but there seems to be no way to treat the entire repository list as text, only as a graphical screenshot file. Apt seems to have no "list" feature. I want a text file of the entire repository list to save so I can cut 'n paste the desired third party additions to later installs Is there another file for added third party repositories? Maybe I'm missing something really basic here. Any help? Thanx Word Wizard ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] download youtube
On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 18:51 -0800, Daniel Johnson wrote: > I saw a Firefox plugin that adds download links to the YouTube page with > multiple format options. Don't remember it's name. > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug Firefox download tools Downloadhelper (w/conversion capability) http://www.downloadhelper.net/ Downthemall http://www.downthemall.net/ ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Tech republic: 10 ways to dodge Linux hardware issues
Don’t use very old hardware? I thought one of Linux' selling points was that unlike Windoze Linux supported legacy hardware. I'm using a 14 year old HP scanner fed by a Adaptec SCSI card even older. No need to change them out as long as they meet my needs. I was initially lured to try Ubuntu Hardy because of lack of Windoze Vista/Se7en drivers. To this day Ubuntu Lynx and its derivatives, Mint, Mepis, etc, have performed flawlessly. I agree with the warning about cutting edge hardware but a Linux strong suit is its solid support for old or recycled devices. Microsoft market strategy seems to be to conspire with hardware vendors to make hardware obsolete sooner than its lifespan or users needs require. On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 08:29 -0700, Patrick J. Timlick wrote: > In case someone hasn't seen this: > > http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=1582&tag=nl.e101 > > It's kindergarten material, but some people think everything you need to > know is taught in kindergarten. > > -- Pat ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] KDE apps on Gnome
Tried systemsettings? On KUbuntu that's the swiss army knife system configuration app. Desktop is the module that customizes fonts I believe. Or maybe Appearance On Sat, 2010-05-01 at 13:57 -0700, John Jason Jordan wrote: > On Sat, 1 May 2010 11:17:15 -0700 > Ali Corbin dijo: > > >> I have looked everywhere for a control panel for KDE, but cannot find > >> it. Of course, why would there be a KDE control panel when I am using > >> Gnome? Maybe the installation of the KDE apps failed to add something > >> needed to control the KDE application menu display. > >> > >> Any suggestions welcome. > > > >On my centos box /usr/bin/kcontrol was provided by kdebase. > > Thanks. But it didn't work. I installed kdebase, but kcontrol was > apparently not included. > > I searched in Yumex for "KDE, settings" which turned up some > possibilities, one of which was kdebase-workspace. But when I tried to > install it I got a message that it was "removing for dependencies" > several things, including ktorrent. Ktorrent is what I plan to replace > Vuze with, so that won't do. Ktorrent is also one of the KDE apps with > huge fonts. Then I looked more closely and realized it was also going > to remove kdebase-workspace. Apparently it was already installed. > (There is a bug in Yumex which makes it fail to display installed apps > in a different color.) > > I tried several of the other possibilities yielded by the search, but > they were either already installed, or were tools to go the other > direction, that is, to make Gnome apps work correctly in KDE. > > I also tried the KDE main page, where I found a link to KDE forums. > Unfortunately the forums have the world's most useless search engine. > Google also hasn't helped. > > I seem to recall once having a KDE GUI control panel, but it was a long > time ago in my Ubuntu days. I don't know where it came from, because > I have always used the Gnome desktop. > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] 'buntus
You may want to try Mepis 8.5 http://www.mepis.org/ I've sampled just about every major distro and Mepis 8.5 seems to more closely approximate Windows install-and-play friendliness than any other. It has by far the best KDE implementation, great fonts, useful user GUI tools and it comes loaded with the basic goodies Windows users expect, a working FLASH-plugin, multimedia codecs, etc. I've found Mepis 8.5 the best out of the box Linux available, missing only ufw or some other firewall front end, about the only must-have Windows refugees will need to download from their Debian repository. Mepis still employs a simple useful great-looking boot-loader (grub-legacy w/gfxboot) that you won't need to be a dark-basement geek to tune to your needs. I moved to Ubuntu back in the Hardy days after watching Windows degenerate in user friendliness, security and even stability from NT-4/Win2K (great!) --> WinXP (faulty but tolerable) --> Vista (just plain awful). I still use Ubuntu (10.4-rc) today because for me it combines some level of user friendliness with just enough complexity and gotchas to encourage the user to learn about their OS "under the hood" so to speak. Every user is different in their needs tolerances and expectations. To me this is Linux's greatest strength. That it offers so many different takes on a basic OS that is a) totally free and b) in most ways much better than Windows. You may also want to scope out Distrowatch to learn more about various Linux flavors http://distrowatch.com/ ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Lucid Lynx - preview
Ubuntu going astray Getting rid of Gnome's custom login screen and sound customizing apps? Why? They seem like basic features of an OS trying to attract desktop users from the Windows world. Why get rid of them? Or change the min/min/close/max button style to that new wacky model? Yes, with a little Linux knowledge the user can change back to the old button style and customize their own sound theme but it sure won't attract any new users from the Windows world who are Linux neophytes. And wassup with Grub2 replacing the old Grub? Who but some dedicated Linux geek programmer would see any use for Grub2's features? Or plymouth? Wouldn't the Ubuntu team have been smarter to employ a grub w/gfxboot like Mepis? Maybe Shuttleworth and his programmers are more interested in showing what they can do than showing they care about what real-world desktop users are looking for. Kudos to Shuttleworth for providing a user friendly Linux desktop for the masses, Hardy and Jaunty. Too bad he's losing sight of that worthy goal in pursuit of God knows what. On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 08:51 -0700, Michael wrote: > > I must be channeling for JJJ or something. > When re-installing > Kubuntu on a laptop after its hard drive failed I saw the uBlog note asking > for Lucid testers. "What the heck", I thought, "it's a > fresh system. I have nothing to lose." > > The so far so > good bits. > > Power management works without my > intervention. Though I really want to turn it off as my system as > issues with coming back from deep sleep. > > The touchpad (with only > two buttons to click) by default treats a tap in the upper right corner as a > middle button click. > > Lucid is a LTS version. > > The > not so good bit: > > the HAL daemon has segfaulted. Triggering a > request to report the bug. As have a couple of other bits of system > plumbing. The good side to this is the failed daemon restarts itself and > there is only a short pause in going forward. > > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Firefox problem/possible solution-diagnostic
Have you any archives/backups of your prior HOME directory under any previous Linux versions/distros? If you do, copy that /home//.mozilla directory to your newly installed /home/ directory. That should implant your prior Firefox settings, as well as a working flash plugin (presuming you had one previously) and any mail you received from a Mozilla client (Seamonkey, etc). If the problem persists at least you have narrowed the possible problem, excluding your home directory. On Fri, 2010-03-12 at 07:27 -0800, Marvin Kosmal wrote: > All > > Firefox problem > > When I click on Edit >>>Preferences... > > A little dialogue box opens up with nothing in it.. > > This on a new install of Fedora 12... > > TIA > > Marvin > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] random question: how do you think newbies select their distributions?
A former Linux newbie; how I chose: Word of mouth, Internet research, led me to Ubuntu as the best combination of Windows-user friendliness, stability, hardware compatibility and applications offerings. I wanted to have as seamless a transition from Windows as possible, with as little Linux skill required as possible (even though I had moderate experience with BSD Unix from the 1980s.) Ubuntu's Gutsy Gibbon met those requirements fairly well, although I suspect every major distro makes the same claims. Since then I've done a fair amount of distro hopping, especially since Unetbootin made it so easy to set up a Live CD installation on a USB drive from virtually any distro, obviating the need to burn a new CD/DVD for every new release. I still keep coming back to Ubuntu for many of the same reasons. Ubuntu seems to have fixed the few problems that existed in back the Gutsy days (sound and NVidia driver issues mostly). The only other Linux flavors that have attracted me were Mint and Mepis, both Ubuntu variants. I've just had too many issues arise with Mandriva, Fedora and other RPM-based distros (probably arising as much from my own lack of Linux skill as anything). There is a reason why Ubuntu is the most popular distro out there and Mint is #3. It just seems you don't need to be Linux guru to get started. For those Windows refugees among us who needed a desktop OS we can actually use productively as well as learn from, Ubuntu fits that bill. One can develop a reasonable amount of Linux skill while still using the system in much the same way we used Windows. In summary, ease of transition from windows, encompassing stability, hardware compatibility and applications offerings were the deciding factors. On Tue, 2010-03-09 at 22:58 -0800, chris (fool) mccraw wrote: > my 3/4-baked theory is that many people new to linux use what their > friends suggest, or what they first or most compellingly hear about. > that is, they don't do comparative research between available/relevant > distributions and choose logically. > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] more lies about Linux
Some items jumped out at me Claim: Printers/Scanners Windows7 Many - Linux Few - Fact: Printers/Scanners Windows7 Few - Linux Many Being a former Windows user (loved Win2K, XP was good, Vista, yecch), I downloaded Wind7 RC and tried it out. Surprise! There is no support for my H-P IICx scanner. Or even the Adaptec PCI scsi card that feeds it! Nor is there any planned. That scanner is perfectly adequate for my needs and, like all H-P hardware of its generation, it's built like a tank and will likely outlive Bill Gates. Why should I buy a new one so I can run Win7? Contrary to Microsoft's BS, their Windows team is obviously removing support for most legacy hardware. Probably to make hardware vendors happy. Having run Ubuntu Linux for almost three years now, I find support for legacy hardware is superb. Never one problem with the system recognizing it, even on installation. Windows should be so blessed! Claim: Software Compatibility Windows7 Many - Linux Few - Fact: Software Compatibility Windows7 Few - Linux Many Same problem in a different sphere. Nearly every app I replied upon in Win2K and XP won't run or won't run well in the GEE-WHIZ LOOKIT THAT! world of Windows 7. So I'll be forced to lay out a grand or two for a basic suite of office, graphics, media and systems tools. While every need they service is met FOR FREE in the Linux world. What do I get with Windows7? A resource-hungry pinball machine of an interface that is no longer even intuitive. Nearly every change Microsoft made was solely for change itself, not to create a more user-efficient system environment. I won't even get into the bootheel-intrusive Microsoft anti-piracy model or its fat unwieldy yet still vulnerable security paradigm. I don't think Linux fans will have to "DO" anything to refute this MS BS PR push as the article suggests. Microsoft may have finally delivered one product that can really lure the average PC notebook and netbook user into a switch. To Linux. There is a reason Microsoft is waging that expensive disinformation campaign. It isn't because Windows 7 can stand on its own toe to toe with Linux without lies. Word Wizard On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 08:44 -0700, David Kaplan wrote: > Here's the latest Blog of Helios. > http://www.linuxlock.blogspot.com/ > > Ken points out that Best Buy, Office Depot and others are lying to people > about Linux so they only think to buy Windows 7. > Dave > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] notSoOpenSuSE
On Wed, 2009-05-27 at 22:45 -0700, Matt McKenzie wrote: > Get the UUID of the disk... ls /dev/disk/by-uuid -lah Word Wizard ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Market for new computer
Pacific Solutions @ SE 51st & Division I highly recommend them. I've bought everything from motherboards to memory to power supplies and cases to video cards to hard drives and DVD drives from them. Right now I'm running two SATA drives (200 and 250 gig. Seagates) that I bought as refurbished and after 2 years they are trouble free. The same with an MSI/NVidia N9600GSO PCI-E video card. Refurbed and absolutely no problems. In six years, I've had to return only two products, a 550 watt power supply whose fan went manic within a week and an MSI mobo whose CMOS died in a similar timespan. Both times Pacific Solutions gave me a replacement, no questions asked. I'm a newly confirmed vocal Linux fan so they know they won't make any money off me with Microsoft/Windows software sales but I still get top notch service and advice. I've also had good luck with ENU but as Pacific Solutions fulfills all my needs and is literally within walking distance I stick with them. Just one customer's opinion but as I have building my own systems since the late '80s it should count for something. Word Wizard On Thu, 2009-05-07 at 06:22 -0700, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Thu, 7 May 2009, Denis Heidtmann wrote: > > > I seem to recall that there were mentioned here a few Linux-friendly > > businesses selling computers. A pointer in the right direction would be > > appreciated. > > Denis, > >I've had excellent service from ENU, Inc. on NE 122nd Ave. when I've gone > there for components to build a new system. When I tell them I'll be running > linux they recommend brands and models that have worked for me each time. > >I'm not at all a Pacific Solutions fan after three bad experiences there, > but others like them so that's an option for you, too. > > Rich > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Jaunty upgrade
Helpful hints to preserve a previous environment
Tar the /home/ directory. That will safeguard
your .evolution, Seamonkey and Thunderbid mailboxes, preserve your
Firefox/Seamonkey settings, any programs/scripts you wrote and put into
your own bin directory, your aliases, .bashrc and .profile startup files
and anything else you put there.
To keep a record of every program you installed, use the "dpkg
--get-selections" command in a terminal. That will output a list of
installed programs. Use dpkg --get-selections | awl '{print $2}' >
installed_progs.lst and save the list. Those names can be used as
arguments to 'sudo apt-get install --install-recommends' to install what
you had.
Alternatively, if you have enough disk space, you can just back up an
image of the entire disk. In single user (init 1) mode, use dd
if=/dev/[your drive_device_name] of=hard_drive_image.bin. Use the 'sudo
fdisk -l" or 'mount' commands to ascertain the drive device designation.
The resulting file will be an exact image of the entire drive so you'll
need an even larger space on anther disks to store it. This is also
useful for backing up a Windows (or any other op system) installation
instead of paying for ghost.
Word Wizard
> ___
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http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Jaunty upgrade
I presuming you really meant "upgrade". As opposed tor fresh install. My advice: don't upgrade. Install fresh . I have had problems upgrading to Hardy and Intrepid. Once I installed a fresh system, 95% of therm vanished. The only problems I have had so far with a fresh Jaunty install were getting my old HP IIcx SCSI scanner to work with xsane and installing the new Flash plug-in for Firefox. Jaunty removed the "scanner" group so now you have to chmod o +x the scanner device file to get xsane to work with an HP IIcx. The Flash plug-in for Firefox worked once I manually installed the libflashplayer.so file into a ~/.mozilla/ plugins directory. There may be a few small bugs left in the new release. This is not unheard of in Windows XP or Vista either. My experience with Hardy and Intrepid is that anything serious gets an update fix fast. Jaunty fixed several nagging minor problems for me. Aisleriot's sounds no longer die off after a dozen games, requiring a restart. Sounds generally are one hundred percent better than Gutsy/Hardy/Intrepid The new nVidia driver now cooperates with Firefox, finally allowing me to run Gnome's special desktop effects without Firefox hiding the menu bar. Word Wizard On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 22:19 -0700, John Jason Jordan wrote: > Don't. > > I am sending this from a KDE desktop, because my Gnome desktop won't start. I > get my desktop background, but no Gnome panel. Kind of hard to run > applications when you have no panel. And Alt-F2 fails to launch a terminal. > Luckily the login option to start KDE instead of Gnome works. So here I am > with a sort-of working computer. > > OK, I have never used KDE before. But I am now poking at it because it's all > I can get working. Maybe y'all KDE dudes and dudettes can convince me to keep > it. If Gnome won't run, to hell with it, eh? > > Meantime, the dist-upgrade to Jaunty is a pile of problems. I recommend y'all > hold off. > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] backup/restore; more questions
I thought the partition information resided on the MBR and backing that up would cover it all. I guess I misinterpreted the MBR reference materials. Thanks for the help, Word Wizard On Mon, 2009-04-20 at 14:55 -0700, Larry Brigman wrote: > sfdisk /dev/sda -O sda-partition-sectors.sav ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] backup/restore; more questions
I used 'dd' to backup the MBR of my primary hard disk thus: dd if=/dev/sda of=/media/disk/sda.boot.mbr bs=512 count=1 Upon restore I should have received: /dev/sda1 * 1 996 8000338+ 82 Linux swap / Solaris /dev/sda2 997 14593 109217902+ 5 Extended /dev/sda5 9971002 48163+ 83 Linux (/boot) /dev/sda6100334922893+ 83 Linux (/) /dev/sda73493 1459389168751 83 Linux (/home) Instead the dd restore omitted the swap area. Is this normal? It seems to me that one cannot replicate a hard disk Linux installation without an exact replication of the original disk geography. Is this correct? I backed up and restored on an unmounted device from the Ubuntu Live DVD. Could that have caused the problem? I now perform the same sequence on a mounted device from single-user mode (init 1). Should that make a difference? Thanks Word Wizard ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] need help with backups/restores and grub
I have lots to learn Thanks Word Wizard On Thu, 2009-04-16 at 19:45 -0700, Russell Senior wrote: > >>>>> "Word" == Word Wizard writes: > > Word> I wasn't aware of dump/restore. I need to research that > Word> option. It seems like it is Red Hat utility not easily available > Word> for Intrepid. > > Dump/restore has been around since the dawn of time. > > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] need help with backups/restores and grub
I wasn't aware of dump/restore. I need to research that option. It seems like it is Red Hat utility not easily available for Intrepid. An Ubuntu GUI application called 'sbackup' is recommended instead. I need to research sbackup and see if it can sidestep the UUID mismatch that plagued my tar / backups. I wonder if putting the /boot directory on its own partition might help. I could dd that one tiny partition to avoid the UUID mismatch. The / and /home partitions could be backed up any old way. Is there any minimum size limit for a Linux or Intrepid partition? As for the dd requirement of an exactly partition match, until I gain proficiency in Linux I will only experiment on one machine. Unlike WindowsXP, Intrepid Linux seems exceeding stable if I don't screw with it. So I can use it on other machines that don't see drastic changes. However I must screw with Linux to learn how it works and how to fix what I (or eventually others) may break. So one desktop machine is dedicated to nothing but learning about Linux and I probably won't need to change the disks as they are new. Stability is one reason I migrated to Linux. I can live with having to fix problems I create in Linux in the learning process. I dislike Windows problems like registry artifacts that hang around and grow from old removed applications and other reasons. Backing up a Windows install usually requires an extra piece of software like Ghost. I'd rather have an OS that provides all the tools I need. Plus I detest Microsoft's heavy handed and intrusive software validation process. Windows 2k was very stable and didn't have the validation regime. I was happy with Win 2k but every release since has gotten less reliable more expensive and more intrusive and chased me to Linux. Thanks, Word Wizard On Thu, 2009-04-16 at 18:36 -0700, Joe Pruett wrote: > i haven't followed this entire thread, but i have to say that dd is only a > useful backup strategy if you will use exactly the same hard disk to > restore onto. using one of a different size or geometry can lead to > trouble if the new disk partition isn't sized correctly. it has to be the > same number of sectors or larger, and if larger it won't use the extra > space without resizing the filesystem which is another scary operation. > > have you looked at dump/restore? they produce output that can be stored > on disk or tape. you can also do interactive restores from their images > (a mini shell like environment where you can cd and ls and choose files). > > those dump images aren't something that you can just restore and reboot > from. you need to boot into some minimal system (live/rescue cd) and then > repartition/reformat/restore. > > if you want a bootable bare metal restore, there are some tools out there > that can create bootable cd/dvd disks, but i have never used them. > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] need help with backups/restores and grub
Being a newbie (who sometimes lives in terror of what Linux can do if I make mistake) I was fearful if possibly compressing a DD-ed partition image might somehow corrupt something that would blow up all the progress I've made. I realize that acquiring proficiency in Linux will require accepting some serious screwups in the process but sometimes going through the reinstall process from the Intrepid distro DVD can get tedious. Anyway, with hard disk storage being as cheap as it is these days, the speed of a straight DD-ed image is more attractive than a more time-consuming space-saving compressed version. I'm trying to perfect a flawless backup model so I can play around, break stuff, learn from my mistakes and eventually become proficient in Linux administration. It helps to set up a reliable model of restoring what worked well before I broke it. I suppose I could sign up for classes in Linux administration somewhere but I seem to learn better with the hands-on experimenting. Plus there is the pride of mastering a skill (mostly) through my own efforts. That's what moved me towards working with PCs as more than an application user and thence to Linux. I can't stand the idea that someone out there can do something so easily that I can't get the hang of. So much so that I keep banging away until I can develop an equivalent proficiency. Thanks again Word Wizard On Thu, 2009-04-16 at 17:58 -0700, Dwight Hubbard wrote: > I sometimes do a quick image backup over the network after booting > from a livecd. Compressing it on the host running dd keeps the > network traffic down. > > dd if=/dev/hda | bzip2 -c | ssh foosystem "/bin/cat > > /backup/diskimg.bz2" > > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Word Wizard > wrote: > > Another path to the goal > > I did some more research about the 'dd' command (yes I am a > newbie) and that tool doesn't have tar's weakness in this > area. Copying the entire partition takes up ten times more > space than just tar-ing the individuals files but it is faster > than my preferred bzip2 compression format. Once I starting > studying disk partitions I realized that it was better to > install the / file system on one partition and /home on a > separate partition. That way I could dd my / partition and tar > my /home. The default Ubuntu installation model places / > and /home on the same partition so it took me some time and > research to realize that manually designating separate > partitions for different parts of the file system was more > useful. > > Thanks again for the help & information. Linux is becoming > more fun and less a pain as I learn more. > > > Word Wizard > > > > On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 19:59 -0700, Dwight Hubbard wrote: > > > Grub stores the actual physical locations of the datablocks > > of it's stage 1.5 or stage 2 files in the bootblock. If you > > restore from a tar archive the location of the blocks for > > the grub stage files will almost certainly be different and > > as a result grub will generate an error 15 because it can't > > find them. > > > > After restoring from a tar archive you need to chroot into > > the newly restored filesystem and run a grub-install to > > cause the restored system to write the grub stage file > > locations to the boot block. > > > > Or you can restore grub from the grub command. If my memory > > serves the commands would look something like this (assuming > > your /boot filesystem (hd0,1) and you want the boot block on > > the first hard disk: > > root (hd0,1) > > setup (hd0) > > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Word Wizard > > wrote: > > > > > > One of the reasons I adopted Linux (Ubuntu Intrepid) > > was that, unlike > > Windows, it SUPPOSEDLY allowed one to fully back up > > the entire system, > > system files and all, and restore them. So if you > > installed files or > > configured your system and made mistakes, you revert > > to a previous > > system. That's the theory. The reality is a bitter > > disappointment. > >
Re: [PLUG] grub. backups and UUIDS
Here are the uncommented lines : default 0 timeout 3 color light-cyan/black blink-light-red/black splashimage=/boot/grub/splashimages/debsplash.xpm.gz title Ubuntu 8.10, kernel 2.6.27-11-generic uuidca270e23-47e8-4f25-a295-4e0894fab4a7 kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-11-generic root=UUID=ca270e23-47e8-4f25-a295-4e0894fab4a7 ro splash verbose initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.27-11-generic quiet title Ubuntu 8.10, kernel 2.6.27-11-generic (recovery mode) uuidca270e23-47e8-4f25-a295-4e0894fab4a7 kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-11-generic root=UUID=ca270e23-47e8-4f25-a295-4e0894fab4a7 ro single initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.27-11-generic title Ubuntu 8.10, kernel 2.6.27-7-generic uuidca270e23-47e8-4f25-a295-4e0894fab4a7 kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-7-generic root=UUID=ca270e23-47e8-4f25-a295-4e0894fab4a7 ro quiet splash initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.27-7-generic quiet title Ubuntu 8.10, kernel 2.6.27-7-generic (recovery mode) uuidca270e23-47e8-4f25-a295-4e0894fab4a7 kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.27-7-generic root=UUID=ca270e23-47e8-4f25-a295-4e0894fab4a7 ro single initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.27-7-generic title Ubuntu 8.10, memtest86+ uuidca270e23-47e8-4f25-a295-4e0894fab4a7 kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin quiet On Thu, 2009-04-16 at 13:48 -0700, Eric Wheeler wrote: > > Can you post your grub.conf to the list? I believe a bit of commentary > on your current config may offer great insight into your grub > challenges... > > -Eric On Thu, 2009-04-16 at 13:40 -0700, Word Wizard wrote: > > Why did they migrate to UUIDs in grub? What is the advantage? Can you > > employ the other device notations in grub? Can lilo be used in Intrepid > > instead? Or another boot loader? > > > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] grub. backups and UUIDS
I noticed that for some reason grub uses UUIDs to determine the location of the kernel in the menu.lst. For some reason unknown to me, somebody decided UUIds are preferable to the (hd0) notation I've come know in Windows boot.ini or the /dev/hda notation of lilo. It appears to me that UUIds are not fixed attributes (e.g., like a serial number) of a given piece of hardware or a reliable partition designation but change with each installation. So if I install a new copy of Ubuntu Intrepid then try to put into place the old / file system I previously tar-ed, there is a mismatch of UUIDs. This may in fact be part of my difficulties in Intrepid restoring that originated this thread. I think I may have installed a fresh copy of Intrepid then tried to restore the previous / system, Why did they migrate to UUIDs in grub? What is the advantage? Can you employ the other device notations in grub? Can lilo be used in Intrepid instead? Or another boot loader? Thanks, Word Wizard On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 19:59 -0700, Dwight Hubbard wrote: > Grub stores the actual physical locations of the datablocks of it's > stage 1.5 or stage 2 files in the bootblock. If you restore from a > tar archive the location of the blocks for the grub stage files will > almost certainly be different and as a result grub will generate an > error 15 because it can't find them. > > After restoring from a tar archive you need to chroot into the newly > restored filesystem and run a grub-install to cause the restored > system to write the grub stage file locations to the boot block. > > Or you can restore grub from the grub command. If my memory serves > the commands would look something like this (assuming your /boot > filesystem (hd0,1) and you want the boot block on the first hard disk: > root (hd0,1) > setup (hd0) ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] need help with backups/restores and grub
Another path to the goal I did some more research about the 'dd' command (yes I am a newbie) and that tool doesn't have tar's weakness in this area. Copying the entire partition takes up ten times more space than just tar-ing the individuals files but it is faster than my preferred bzip2 compression format. Once I starting studying disk partitions I realized that it was better to install the / file system on one partition and /home on a separate partition. That way I could dd my / partition and tar my /home. The default Ubuntu installation model places / and /home on the same partition so it took me some time and research to realize that manually designating separate partitions for different parts of the file system was more useful. Before using dd on /, I boot up with and run in the installation DVD Gnome environment. That way I can access / as a dismounted partition without worrying about file changes during a backup. When done, I mount my /home partition as /media/disk-1 and tar that one.The datablock location problem you pointed out does not seem to be an issue with my /home partition. As it isn't the active /home partition for that live/installation environment, I assume there will be minimal/no file changes while it's being tar-ed. Just to be sure I created one dd /home partition backup to use in case I've missed something. I'm sure I have and I trust someone will point it out. With Windows I never needed to know anything about partitioning after the installation partition selection choice. With Linux it appears I won't get very far without an in-depth knowledge of disk geography and the Linux tools used to work with storage media. The upside is that once I learn the tools I can do things in different ways specific to a given need. I prefer having more tools even though it can be frustrating to want to do something I know other Linux users can do but I can't do because I haven't learned enough about the process. Thanks again for the help & information. Linux is becoming more fun and less a pain as I learn more. Word Wizard On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 19:59 -0700, Dwight Hubbard wrote: > Grub stores the actual physical locations of the datablocks of it's > stage 1.5 or stage 2 files in the bootblock. If you restore from a > tar archive the location of the blocks for the grub stage files will > almost certainly be different and as a result grub will generate an > error 15 because it can't find them. > > After restoring from a tar archive you need to chroot into the newly > restored filesystem and run a grub-install to cause the restored > system to write the grub stage file locations to the boot block. > > Or you can restore grub from the grub command. If my memory serves > the commands would look something like this (assuming your /boot > filesystem (hd0,1) and you want the boot block on the first hard disk: > root (hd0,1) > setup (hd0) > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Word Wizard > wrote: > > > One of the reasons I adopted Linux (Ubuntu Intrepid) was that, > unlike > Windows, it SUPPOSEDLY allowed one to fully back up the > entire system, > system files and all, and restore them. So if you installed > files or > configured your system and made mistakes, you revert to a > previous > system. That's the theory. The reality is a bitter > disappointment. > > I sudo su, change to / directory and use the following > command and > generate a valid tar backup: > > tar cvpjf /home/username/BackUp/Archives/total_backup.tar.bz2 > --exclude="/home//username/HD_1" > --exclude="/home//username/HD_2" > --exclude="/home//username/.thumbnails" > --exclude="/home//username/.mozilla/default/Cache" > --exclude="/proc" > --exclude="/lost+found" --exclude="/media" --exclude="/mnt" > --exclude="/sys" / > > To restore, I sudo su, change to the / directory and use the > following > command: > > tar xvpjf /home/username/BackUp/Archives/total_backup.tar.bz2 > -C / > > First problem. Upon reboot I get an "error 15" Can't find the > grub > files. They are there but It seems the problem may be with > using UUIDs > instead of (hd0) notation. The UUIDs change. What no-life > propeller head > chose to use UUIDs anyway? > > It gets worse. I tried booting from the distro DVD > (Intrepid) and >
Re: [PLUG] help with backups/restores/grub
I have two SATA drives (data and backup) in addition to the primary SATA drive which houses two ext3 partitions (/ and /home) plus a swap partition. Nothing else on that primary SATA drive. I only back up the primary SATA and as a newbie I presume hd0 is the place for the boot record. Using GParted, I find this drive is partitioned so: /dev/sda2 Subdivided into /dev/sda6 / /dev/sda7 /home /dev/sda5 swap /dev/sda1 is not mentioned. Where should the grub setup command point to? hd0? hd0,1? The Oort Cloud? Your suggestion about using dd confuses me. Will this generate a second file that should be kept with the tar file? Appended to it somehow? How do I use it This very frustrating for a newbie who wants to learn an alternative to the Totalitarian Microsoft Machine (sigh). Thank you Word Wizard On Thu, 2009-04-09 at 18:29 -0700, Bill Barry wrote: > On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Word Wizard > wrote: > > > It gets worse. I tried booting from the distro DVD > (Intrepid) and > using grub to 'find /boot/grub/stage1'. > > grub finds it (hd0,5). That's the correct location. I use the > sudo su, > then the root (hd0,5) command. No error messages. I use the > setup (hd0) > command and the output says it found the /boot/grub/stage1 > file and is > writing (hd0)/boot/grub/menu/.lst. > > BUT... It does not write (hd0)/boot/grub/menu/.lst. Anywhere. > I check > the root drive and the old /boot/grub/menu/.lst is still > there. Even if > I rename it, no new menu.lst appears . > > > What am I doing wrong? Or is Linux still not ready for prime > time and > only for hackers? > > > > > Do you have a separate boot partition? Maybe (hd0,1) or (hd0,2) etc is > your boot partition > and the menu.lst you need to be editing is in one of those partitions. > It can happen that their are actual grub files in hd(0,5), but that > those are not the ones pointed to by the grub MBR. The one thing > your tar file did not back up is the MBR. To make the backup complete > you should > dd if=/dev/hda of=MasterBoootRecordBackup bs=512 count=1 > > Another possibility is that booting from the DVD changes the drive > order, and when you boot again without the DVD, the drive has changed > name. This is the problem the UUID stuff is supposed to fix. So you > can have ugly drive specifications, or drive specifications that > change from under your feet. This is not really a linux problem per > se, but a problem with the BIOS. > > Bill Barry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] help with backups/restores/grub
That /boot/grub/menu/.lst is a typo. Your /boot/grub/menu.lst is what my system uses. I don't know why the menu.lst file is updated by grub. That is the output of the setup (hd0) command. I didn't specify it. I don't think I can. You mentioned that the way I did the backup is a little odd. I found the syntax online in an Ubuntu forum and slightly modified it to fit my system/drive configuration. I have two SATA drives (data and backup) in addition to the primary SATA drive which houses two ext3 partitions (/ and /home) plus a swap partition. I only want to back up the primary SATA drive with all requite files to restore. Thus the EXCLUDES statements. They also suggested the other EXCLUDES. If you have any pointers or alternative command sequence to backup my whole system (minus the two secondary SATA drives) I would be very grateful Thank you, Word Wizard On Thu, 2009-04-09 at 18:30 -0700, Tim wrote: > Hello, > > > grub finds it (hd0,5). That's the correct location. I use the sudo su, > > then the root (hd0,5) command. No error messages. I use the setup (hd0) > > command and the output says it found the /boot/grub/stage1 file and is > > writing (hd0)/boot/grub/menu/.lst. > > > > BUT... It does not write (hd0)/boot/grub/menu/.lst. Anywhere. I check > > the root drive and the old /boot/grub/menu/.lst is still there. Even if > > I rename it, no new menu.lst appears . > > > > > > What am I doing wrong? Or is Linux still not ready for prime time and > > only for hackers? > > Oh, it's ready for prime time. It's just that the PC BIOS interface > is *long* past it's prime. > > The way you did your backup is a little odd and while it can work, > it's error prone. Without going into too much detail, let's see if we > can help you get your system booting again. > > First of all, on all of my systems the menu.lst file is stored at > /boot/grub/menu.lst, not /boot/grub/menu/.lst. Do you have a > /boot/grub/menu.lst file? > > Second of all, I don't know why the menu.lst file should be updated at > all when you reinstall grub on your hd0. Primarily grub just needs > to know where the bootloader stages are at on disk (which you probably > changed when you overwrote those files). Have you tried booting since > you redid the grub install? > > tim ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] need help with backups/restores and grub
One of the reasons I adopted Linux (Ubuntu Intrepid) was that, unlike Windows, it SUPPOSEDLY allowed one to fully back up the entire system, system files and all, and restore them. So if you installed files or configured your system and made mistakes, you revert to a previous system. That's the theory. The reality is a bitter disappointment. I sudo su, change to / directory and use the following command and generate a valid tar backup: tar cvpjf /home/username/BackUp/Archives/total_backup.tar.bz2 --exclude="/home//username/HD_1" --exclude="/home//username/HD_2" --exclude="/home//username/.thumbnails" --exclude="/home//username/.mozilla/default/Cache" --exclude="/proc" --exclude="/lost+found" --exclude="/media" --exclude="/mnt" --exclude="/sys" / To restore, I sudo su, change to the / directory and use the following command: tar xvpjf /home/username/BackUp/Archives/total_backup.tar.bz2 -C / First problem. Upon reboot I get an "error 15" Can't find the grub files. They are there but It seems the problem may be with using UUIDs instead of (hd0) notation. The UUIDs change. What no-life propeller head chose to use UUIDs anyway? It gets worse. I tried booting from the distro DVD (Intrepid) and using grub to 'find /boot/grub/stage1'. grub finds it (hd0,5). That's the correct location. I use the sudo su, then the root (hd0,5) command. No error messages. I use the setup (hd0) command and the output says it found the /boot/grub/stage1 file and is writing (hd0)/boot/grub/menu/.lst. BUT... It does not write (hd0)/boot/grub/menu/.lst. Anywhere. I check the root drive and the old /boot/grub/menu/.lst is still there. Even if I rename it, no new menu.lst appears . What am I doing wrong? Or is Linux still not ready for prime time and only for hackers? ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Motorola WiMAX desktop modem
Thank you very much! I don't know what I'd do without this PLUG list. I was more than competent with Windows and a simple Surfboard cable modem. I chose to switch to Linux (Intrepid, soon to be Jaunty) and explore other broadband options (may risk a 2 year contract with WiMAXX with this blazing fast connection; 30% faster than Comcast according to Internet speed test sites). All this is new to me and the PLUG list is a great educational source. In a few weeks I should have gained enough Linux knowledge to volunteer some time at one of the Free Geek clinics. Help out some other Linux newbies and give back to the Portland Linux community. And learn even more from some of the more experienced Linux hands. Linux FOREVER! Thanx again! W.W. On Sat, 2009-03-28 at 10:05 -0700, wes wrote: > I googled myself crazy over it too. I actually was unable to find it > myself. I had to ask for help, just like you're doing now. You're > lucky I am a chat-history packrat :) > > http://www.motorola.com/Hellomoto/Master%20Lists/Product% > 20Manuals/Static%20Files/US-EN/CPEi150%20User%20Guide-Ver-A.pdf > > -wes > > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Word Wizard > wrote: > > I have Googled myself crazy but I cannot find any link to a > user's manual for the Motorola CPEi 150 WiMAX series modem. > The account > sales rep didn't leave any manual with device. How did anyone > find out > how to access this puppy? > > Thanx, > > W.W. > ___ > PLUG mailing list > PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org > http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug > > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Motorola WiMAX desktop modem
Thanks for the advice on my trial Clear WiMAX aservice. I still haven't made up my mind yet but now I have some good knowledge to help. So far the service seems blazingly fast with no interference problems due to weather (or anything else). Maybe because I can hit the broadcast tower with an energetic stone's throw, with a direct open line of sight to my modem. Some references were made to the modem's password and accessing its settings. I have Googled myself crazy but I cannot find any link to a user's manual for the Motorola CPEi 150 WiMAX series modem. The account sales rep didn't leave any manual with device. How did anyone find out how to access this puppy? Any leads to finding out how to get a Motorola CPEi 150 WiMAX modem user manual or any info about accessing /changing its settings would be greatly appreciated. Thanx, W.W. ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Newbie GRUB question
SORRY! I just ran Intrepid's Install program and discovered that had I opened the ADVANCED (boot loader install) Section I would have seen hd0 displayed prominently. Makes sense. The first drive should be where the code sits to point to grub directory . Newbies, huh! WW ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Newbie GRUB question
How to use grub to recover lost GRUB bootloader System hard disk profile: First sata= Windows XP/ntfs. Two partitions, one Windows system, the other Windows data files. Second sata= Ubuntu Intrepid/ext3. Three partitions, one swap, one /, one (the largest) /home. Third sata= Data files/ext3. (mounted stand alone separately as /home/username/Datadrive) I understand that you must enter grub, then find /boot/grub/stage1. I get (hd1,4). Understood. Next root root (hd1,4). Makes sense. Now the tricky part. Type setup (hd1,4)? Or setup (hd0)? Or? Thanks WW ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Clear WiMax
Does anyone have any experience or advice? Recently Clear WiMax has begun offering its services here in Portland. I was given a 7 day trial using a desktop Motorola WiMax Ethernet modem. My experience with Comcast service for both HiDef cable TV and broadband has been utterly dismal, with periodic service interruptions, ever increasing charges, poor service tech performance, etc. Comcast's recent addition of a 99 cent monthly service insurance charge (or pay a large service tech bill if they need to actually DO something) is particularly galling given their lack of competence. I am considering Clear WiMax as a broadband replacement. Although the listed download rate is lower than Comcast, actual measured throughput is about 30% higher as Comcast has been degrading in tandem with the number of customers they've signed up. Clear WiMax is offering a guaranteed price w/ a 24 month contract that is actually less than Comcast with NO download limits. I need to commit by next Tuesday, March 31st. Any advice on what I should be wary of here? This looks too good to be true. Should I expect a throughput degradation akin to Comcast as Clear signs up more customers? I'm hazy about the tech details of the limits of this kind of service versus Comcast's copper lines. Clear offers no news feed or home page akin to Comcast, both of which are minor details if Clear service remains superior to Comcast. Are there stand alone news feeds and home page services out there ? Any info would be greatly appreciated Thanks WW ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
[PLUG] Help! With Ubuntu-Intrepid backups
Maybe some gurus here can help me. I backup the entire system (as root , PWD= /) with the command: tar cvpjf /home/myname/Archives/total_backup.tar.bz2 / When I extract-reinstall the file system I get an ERROR 15 message which means it cannot find the /boot/grub/* files. Why is this? Solutions on line include: 1) Using grub to define the boot/grub/ location. Problem? You must use the (hd1,0) notation but the menu.lst file uses UUID notation for Ubuntu (but still uses hd0,0 notation for the Windows drive- go figure that one!) How do I translate between UUID --> (hd,0) --> dev/sd* notation? 2) Using Intrepid Install CD to manually install new partitions then don't actually partition, then install grub. Problem? How do I determine the right mount points and sizes for root, swap, etc. to accurately replicate the existing file system? It seems to me that if they don't sync, I lose the whole disk. One problem (among many) I had with Windows is that it was incredibly difficult to back up and restore the entire system (without extra software like ghost). I had hoped Linux was better. I still believe it can be and it is my lack of Linux knowledge that is at fault. Any help would be appreciated. Otherwise I may need to go to the FreeGeek Linux clinic and bother them with this boring newbie question. Thanx, Word Wizard ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Rumors that Windows 7 will kill Linux...
On Mon, 2009-03-16 at 09:46 -0700, John Jason Jordan wrote: > Karmic Koala? You bet! Ubuntu: Karmic Koala to make cloud 'dance' Feb 23, 2009 6:45:39 AM Extensive cloud-computing functionality will be built into Karmic Koala, the next version but one of Ubuntu, Canonical has announced. Canonical chief Mark Shuttleworth introduced Karmic Koala on Friday, in a post on the Ubuntu site. That release of the Linux distribution, due in October, will follow the Jaunty Jackalope version that is expected in April. http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-271852.html Will Karmic Koala & A Bad Economy Conspire to Make Ubuntu The New Leader? http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2009/03/09/will-karmic-koala-a-bad-economy-conspire-to-make-ubuntu-the-new-leader/ ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
Re: [PLUG] Rumors that Windows 7 will kill Linux...
Maybe but, I'm no Linux Guru and I've found Ubuntu Gutsy/Hardy/Intrepid to be as easy or even easier to work with than Win XP Pro. Granted, it helps to pretend you have never operated a PC before and NOT make certain Windows OS assumptions. I've heard that PC newbies can get kneecapped by Linux but I wonder if maybe the users most at risk of frustration are those of us who have spent enough time with Windows to think we know what we're doing. As a non-guru desktop user, I can testify that once you get into the Linux mindset, it is Windows that begins to look weak, clumsy and troublesome. Once you get accustomed to Linux power and capabilities, Windows just seems lame, a crippled OS more appropriate for an elementary school than adult use. On the plus side, the OS is free plentiful and powerful, the apps are free plentiful and powerful, and while Linux is getting better and better, Windows is getting worse and worse. For me, the respective up- and down-curves crossed somewhere around Win XP and Gutsy. From what I've seen, for many more users that intersection will certainly be passed at Windows 7 and Karmic Koala On Mon, 2009-03-16 at 09:03 -0700, Tim Slighter wrote: > Just ran across this interesting article concerning Windows 7 > > http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/817/1050817/microsoft-plans-multiple-windows-versions > > Although I can agree with all the rest of the Linux addicts out there, > we have to be aware of the majority of computer users out there that are > not Linux savvy, the huddled masses that will blindly snag up anything > with Windows 7 because Windows is what they know. > > I believe everyone is aware of the fact that Microsoft is going to be > offering Windows 7 for free on Netbooks but here is why this particular > starter version is being offered for free: > > http://www.workswithu.com/2009/02/06/fatal-windows-7-flaw-will-bolster-linux-netbooks/ > > Microsoft's thought process on this is that when users get upset because > of the application limit on the the free starter version they will give > up and pay the licensing fee to upgrade to an unrestricted version. > Quite honestly, I believe the majority of people are going to do this, > mostly to avoid the inconvenience of having to return the Netbook while > deliberating on what to purchase instead. I am trying to play devils > advocate here and if I put myself into the shoes of an average computer > user that has only used Windows their entire life, it almost seems > inconceivable that this user would return the Netbook and say to > themselves "Hey, why don't I try out the Linux version Netbook". It > would be far easier to just pay the fee and get Windows 7 unlocked on > the Netbook they already own. > > What could help to build the Linux case at this critical moment is to > edumacate them on what Linux looks like on a Netbook, what it can do, > how easy it is to use, the cost (or lack of) of the OS, and all the > other good stuff that will curtail the fear factor of the unknowing > customer. > > In the past it is possible that Linux has been targeted toward home > users based on its generic properties such as no cost, easy to use, > flexibility, and security and this is all good but now, with Netbooks > out there and a lot of people considering purchasing them, this gives > the Linux community something very tangible as they can now promote > Linux with something specific that consumers are interested in buying. > > donkyhotay wrote: > > They'll get me away from linux when they pry it from my cold dead > > fingers... Seriously though, from what I've seen and heard windows 7 is > > essentially windows vista with a coat of paint slapped on it. With the > > marketing fiasco vista turned out to be (I've heard if you call MS tech > > support they don't even refer to vista by name anymore) they're mostly > > making certain people have positive prejudices rather then any real > > changes. All the changes I have seen so far are things that could be put > > in a service pack for vista rather then in a new OS. Will it 'kill' > > desktop linux? Never, due to it's open source nature linux can't die > > unless *everyone* in the world stops using it. Although many people > > don't care about DRM, giving up civil liberties, and being spied upon > > (they see the computer as just an appliance like the microwave) there > > are many people in the world who *do* care about such things. It's > > possible that people will get smart and realize windows 7 isn't worth > > the money but more people will buy it because (just like vista) thats > > what was on the computer when they took it out of the box. > > > > > > > > Michael Robinson wrote: > > > >> Googling around to try and educate myself about this Windows 7 > >> thing, I'm running into a lot of claims that Windows 7 will kill > >> Linux on the Desktop. Based on what exactly? > >> > >> I'll admit that Linux has difficulty supporting certain software.
Re: [PLUG] Rumors that Windows 7 will kill Linux...
I doubt that very much. Why I switched to Linux and won't switch back I was a confirmed Windows user. Windows 2000 did everything I wanted in its day. Much better than NT 4.0. After Win2K got a little behind the curve for me I moved up to Windows XP Pro. That's when it started. I had a 64 bit processor but if I opted for the 64 bit XP, I would be forced to give up most of the non-Microsoft software I had gotten accustomed to because it would not run on XP/64. I settled for XP/32. Some drivers would not install properly, forcing me to reinstall, hack, etc. The Windows OS update model can best be described as painful, time wasting and prone to mistakes. Windows security has always been horrible, even with NTFS. Then the ultimate insult. After shelling out decent money for XP Pro, I had to jump through hoops to clear the Microsoft anti-piracy regime! Even worse, because of Windows' file backup model and its gradual Registry degradation, I could not just load it and forget it. I had to periodically reinstall Win XP. Going through the same obnoxious Windows update and validation regimes over and over again. Until I received a notice that due to the fact I had reinstalled my copy so many times, on-line validation would no longer work and I had to call and beg some anonymous Microsoft employee to turn on the software I had paid for! In the middle of all this, I tried a copy of Ubuntu/Gutsy Gibbon. For the first time, Linux actually installed easier than Windows. It even found my Motorola cable modem and installed the proper driver right off the bat, something Windows XP would not do without some work, even with the modem CD. I could take advantage of a 64 bit system. Gutsy installed a plethora of powerful applications for free. Getting even more, everything from video/audio/graphics editing to powerful text editors to network tools was only a simple GUI away. Compared to XP, updates are simple quick and competent. And NO jackboot validation torture! I'm on Intrepid now an eagerly awaiting Jackalope. That's not to say Ubuntu is perfect. Solitaire sounds randomly quit in the middle of a game although the sound driver continues to work everywhere else, forcing me to close out the game and restart. KDE puts Win Vista to shame with its GUI and application integration but that Evolution/keyring requirement has GOT to be changed. Who decided that I must enter a password to read my mail? KDE also needs a better selection of screen savers (nitpicking there). KDE's faults are not important because I usually run Gnome and can select XFCE, IceWin, Blackbox, Fluxbox and God-knows how many other window managers right from the login screen. Security is as tight as anyone needs, without any extra-cost security suite. The biggest hassle I've had is getting Google Earth to work and even that is easier than getting XP to work with that cable modem, once you know how. Oh yeah, did I mention that if I do run into trouble, as I did with Google Earth, all I need do is paste the error messages into Google and dozen or more Linux sites pop up with the fix. Think Windows Knowledge Base squared. Windows 7 kill Linux? That I gotta see! On Mon, 2009-03-16 at 00:16 -0700, Michael Robinson wrote: > Googling around to try and educate myself about this Windows 7 > thing, I'm running into a lot of claims that Windows 7 will kill > Linux on the Desktop. Based on what exactly? > ___ PLUG mailing list PLUG@lists.pdxlinux.org http://lists.pdxlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/plug
