Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Jefferis Peterson said: Otherwise with IMAP I have to leave it disorganized online or I have to duplicate my folder structure on the server. Well, the point I already have made was that Physical Folders are tired and Virtual folders are wired. Look at how gmail works. Who cares about folders or not? The point is being able to find the information you got. CTM have built fantastic search functions as evident in the Foxtrot application. That they haven't made this more prominent in PowerMail with a more virtual folder structure built on searches is is something I miss. /MB
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Jefferis Peterson told: What I'm finding is that some of the messages moved, not deleted, but moved to the folder are NOT appearing or being downloaded when I fire up say Entourage on my desktop. They just disappear from the server. It's not very likely that this disappearance have anything to do with the fact that these messages are getting moved in PM once they have been downloaded. The only mechanism I can think of would be if PM inadvertently deleted some of those messages in the moving process. This, while being possible, doesn't feel likely or reasonable to be the case here. /MB
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Jefferis Peterson said: What I found was that it was not deleting some mail, but appears to be deleting some mail I do not want it to when I move the mail from the Inbox to a folder on my computer. What do you mean move the mail from the Inbox to a folder on my computer? You lost messages when copying already downloaded messages to another folder? Or do you mean you copied them via IMAP? I do not trust PowerMail with deleting messages via POP. I just let the server deal with them. But POP is tired. IMAP is way hotter. What kind of people these days want *only* download messages to one location? Leaving messages on the server is the norm as far as I can see. One other big major drawback with PowerMail is physical folders. Physical folders are tired. Virtual folders are wired. We should have had them in version 5 already. Really. The only reason I stay with PM is I don't have time to familiarize myself with another client and most other clients interface details suck to some extent. But PM is aging and is in need of rejuvenation. MB Technoids: PM 6.0.5 build 4621 sv | OS X 10.5.8 | PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0 | 4GB / 1.5TB/MB
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Jefferis Peterson wrote: However: Just for such cases (mobile mailing_and_ home/office mailing with the same account) an IMAP4 account should be your method of choice! It's much better and safer then a POP3 account. Well, for mobile apps, that makes sense I guess. But for the home office, I don't want to store mail on the server and have it set to delete it after 30 days. Having a local copy and a searchable database of emails is part of my workflow. Otherwise with IMAP I have to leave it disorganized online or I have to duplicate my folder structure on the server. That is a pain and a duplication of my efforts. Not efficient or helpful. Well, unteachable people should stop whine about home-made problems ...
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Actually, one only has to do that once and then the folder structure is shown on ALL IMAP clients. Most importantly, it includes one's Sent mail data as well. The consistent and complete folder structure is the very strength of IMAP. Better yet, if the server is fairly full featured, one could set up all the rules on the server, thereby insuring that filtering is applied equally in all situations and not simply on the client that happens to have the filters defined locally. The other option is to define a full set of filters and rules on each client, making sure that said rules are identical in each case. A fair amount of work. I used to work exactly as you do. Multiple POP clients, with the primary one cleaning up the server database automatically and the others set to Leave on Server Indefinitely. That worked until my work environment evolved to a point where Exchange / IMAP became more useful and my personal email environment became gmail centric. On 25/08/2010 5:08 PM, Jefferis Peterson wrote: On 8/25/10 5:05 PM, PowerMail discussions wrote: However: Just for such cases (mobile mailing_and_ home/office mailing with the same account) an IMAP4 account should be your method of choice! It's much better and safer then a POP3 account. To understand the big difference have a look at this: Well, for mobile apps, that makes sense I guess. But for the home office, I don't want to store mail on the server and have it set to delete it after 30 days. Having a local copy and a searchable database of emails is part of my workflow. Otherwise with IMAP I have to leave it disorganized online or I have to duplicate my folder structure on the server. That is a pain and a duplication of my efforts. Not efficient or helpful. Jeff
Re(2): Switching to Powermail maybe
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010, Tim Hodgson thn...@pobox.com wrote: On 25 Aug 2010, at 4:52pm, Tim lapin wrote: On 25/08/2010 3:21 AM, MB wrote: Unfortunately, I'm not that fond of Mails interface nor the one mailbox per account, but as I'm slowly moving to IMAP, PowerMail is slowly loosing its value for me. I wish CTM would make IMAP full citizen, but I have seen nothing that indicates this could be on the horizon Sounds *exactly* like my experience. I too am moving towards IMAP, be it gmail or the MS Exchange version. It is not so much a choice as a realization that to do what I need to do with e-mail requires the migration from POP to IMAP. Yes, the interface in Mail is decidedly messier and busier than that of PowerMail. I have always liked PM's clean look and might, therefore, go back to it full time *IF* IMAP was given equal consideration as POP. I think there are a lot of us out there! I moved over to Mail about 5 months ago, mainly because of the IMAP issue, but I have similar feelings about Mail's UI, and still keep an eye on this list, hoping for some good news on the upgrade front. A word of caution for you IMAPers out there in the U.S. Remember that email on servers is NOT in your house and Fourth Amendment rules do not apply. Data on the server is owned by the service provider, not by you. Email that is (a) unread and, (2) less than six months old has some protection, although the Government tried recently to remove it. Email that has been read or is older than six months can be had with a Court order if it's relevant to something. the something doesn't have to be something you did, and the threshold is not probable cause. In one recent example, lawyers for an insurance company subpoenaed, and received, the full Facebook details on a person's spouse, even though she was not a party to the lawsuit. They felt it was relevant and the Judge approved it. So, watch out out there. Cheers.Peter
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
On 8/25/10 12:14 PM, MB wrote: What do you mean move the mail from the Inbox to a folder on my computer? You lost messages when copying already downloaded messages to another folder? Or do you mean you copied them via IMAP? I do not trust PowerMail with deleting messages via POP. I just let the server deal with them. Connect, incoming messages are filtered and if they meet a filter, they are sorted and placed in the appropriate folder in PM. Leaving 2 gigs and a couple of years of messages on my server makes no sense to me. My host has a storage limit and I have clients who not only do not delete their messages but also don't empty their trash. This becomes a problem for their storage limits and I have to go in and manually delete their junk so they/I don't get charged more for breaking the storage limit on my master account. Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com (724)-482-2015
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Jefferis Peterson said: Okay, what settings would I check on the server that would prevent PM from deleting read emails? That depends on the server software and the possible settings there, doesn't it? As I've had similar experiences to yours I can only say that it could be worth investigating, however I'd rather select another email package than have to go trough that kind of analysis project again. The only conclusion I could reach from my investigations was that from time to time PowerMail does not agree with the mail server what messages have been downloaded or not , which in my case led to a few messages being apparently lost and tens of thousands of messages getting redownloaded even though I already had them. As a contrast Apple's Mail performs without any problems with the same accounts (but if this is because it's better at handling the communication with Mail servers I can't know for sure as I had been using PowerMail previously on the same accounts and to most extent the same messages). Unfortunately, I'm not that fond of Mails interface nor the one mailbox per account, but as I'm slowly moving to IMAP, PowerMail is slowly loosing its value for me. I wish CTM would make IMAP full citizen, but I have seen nothing that indicates this could be on the horizon. However, I'm not sure that the cause of your problems must be related to those I had. PowerMail never deleted messages in some kind of regular fashion when PowerMail was set to not remove messages from the server at any point in my experience. Can you get a communication log from when this problem occurs I suppose it could be useful finding the cause. /MB
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Jefferis Peterson wrote: What works in Entourage may not work the same way in Power Mail. The two programs are different ... Okay, what settings would I check on the server that would prevent PM from deleting read emails? PM itself never delets any mails; it always needs an action (or the activation of a filter) by the user. Concerning the server settings most of them you can set on deleting mails if they are deleted on the mail client (or similar). It means: If you delete mails on PM by your own action then this mails will be deleted on the server too (during next connection).
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
On 8/25/10 3:30 AM, Rene Merz wrote: Concerning the server settings most of them you can set on deleting mails if they are deleted on the mail client (or similar). It means: If you delete mails on PM by your own action then this mails will be deleted on the server too (during next connection). My settings are leave copies of retrieved messages on server to allow my mobile platform not to delete copies for my home computer, BUT to delete from server when deleting locally so junk mail and irrelevant stuff is removed. What I found was that it was not deleting some mail, but appears to be deleting some mail I do not want it to when I move the mail from the Inbox to a folder on my computer. It was an irregular occurrence, and I could not predict when or why it was happening. I have access to logs but I'd have to know which ones to look at and what to look for. And then to know exactly when it occurred, which is hard to figure out because I don't know anything is amiss until I fire up an alternate email program and see a discrepancy. That is more effort than I need to find a functioning email program. On 8/25/10 3:21 AM, MB wrote: However, I'm not sure that the cause of your problems must be related to those I had. PowerMail never deleted messages in some kind of regular fashion when PowerMail was set to not remove messages from the server at any point in my experience. Can you get a communication log from when this problem occurs I suppose it could be useful finding the cause. /MB Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com (724)-482-2015
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Jefferis Peterson hat am Mittwoch, 25. August 2010 geschrieben: My settings are leave copies of retrieved messages on server to allow my mobile platform not to delete copies for my home computer, BUT to delete from server when deleting locally so junk mail and irrelevant stuff is removed. What I found was that it was not deleting some mail, but appears to be deleting some mail I do not want it to when I move the mail from the Inbox to a folder on my computer. How do-you mean that? It is impossible to move any mail from the PM-inbox to somewhere else outside PM. The only way for such an operation is to save a text copy of a mail (menu file save as text); but the original mail remains on PM. But, of course, if you save (= download) it from the mail server (for to save-it in a folder on your computer) then it is labeled for the mail server as read _and_ if it is not the same time on PM it will be deleted by the mail server - logically, because mails which are not in the database of PM look for the mail server like deleted locally.
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Jefferis Peterson hat am Mittwoch, 25. August 2010 geschrieben: On 8/25/10 10:39 AM, Rene Merz wrote: What I found was that it was not deleting some mail, but appears to be deleting some mail I do not want it to when I move the mail from the Inbox to a folder on my computer. How do-you mean that? It is impossible to move any mail from the PM-inbox to somewhere else outside PM. The only way for such an operation is to save a text copy of a mail (menu file save as text); but the original mail remains on PM. But, of course, if you save (= download) it from the mail server (for to save-it in a folder on your computer) then it is labeled for the mail server as read _and_ if it is not the same time on PM it will be deleted by the mail server - logically, because mails which are not in the database of PM look for the mail server like deleted locally. What I mean is that I have filters that will file incoming business mail from the inbox to a folder named Business in PM. What I'm finding is that some of the messages moved, not deleted, but moved to the folder are NOT appearing or being downloaded when I fire up say Entourage on my desktop. They just disappear from the server. How? Once you work with PM, the other time with Entourage? Sounds crazy ... You cannot work with two different mail programs. Of course you can, but problems are preprogrammed.
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Sounds *exactly* like my experience. I too am moving towards IMAP, be it gmail or the MS Exchange version. It is not so much a choice as a realization that to do what I need to do with e-mail requires the migration from POP to IMAP. Yes, the interface in Mail is decidedly messier and busier than that of PowerMail. I have always liked PM's clean look and might, therefore, go back to it full time *IF* IMAP was given equal consideration as POP. On 25/08/2010 3:21 AM, MB wrote: Unfortunately, I'm not that fond of Mails interface nor the one mailbox per account, but as I'm slowly moving to IMAP, PowerMail is slowly loosing its value for me. I wish CTM would make IMAP full citizen, but I have seen nothing that indicates this could be on the horizon
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Same here! Every now and then I make do with a set of BCC-rules and other patch-tricks to emulate IMAP behaviour but after some time I move back to Mail again (having tried all the others). And then back to PowerMail. etc... But IMAP feels like the inevitable future, and I keep hoping some open source or whatever solution will be integrated to bring PM back in that race. And then I will be back at PowerMail, and I would even pay a hefty upgrade fee. Op 25 aug 2010, om 17:52 heeft Tim lapin het volgende geschreven: Sounds *exactly* like my experience. I too am moving towards IMAP, be it gmail or the MS Exchange version. It is not so much a choice as a realization that to do what I need to do with e-mail requires the migration from POP to IMAP. Yes, the interface in Mail is decidedly messier and busier than that of PowerMail. I have always liked PM's clean look and might, therefore, go back to it full time *IF* IMAP was given equal consideration as POP. On 25/08/2010 3:21 AM, MB wrote: Unfortunately, I'm not that fond of Mails interface nor the one mailbox per account, but as I'm slowly moving to IMAP, PowerMail is slowly loosing its value for me. I wish CTM would make IMAP full citizen, but I have seen nothing that indicates this could be on the horizon
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
On 8/25/10 11:39 AM, Rene Merz wrote: How? Once you work with PM, the other time with Entourage? Sounds crazy ... You cannot work with two different mail programs. Of course you can, but problems are preprogrammed. Come on it isn't that complex. I have a laptop. On the laptop when I am away, I check POP email on my site. I sort the mail as it comes in. I'm testing PM as a replacement for Entourage. When I get home, I fire up my desktop and run Entourage. All the email not manually deleted in PM on the laptop SHOULD remain on the server for download in Entourage. What I found is that some of the messages that should have been left on the server were gone. Jeff Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com (724)-482-2015
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Jefferis Peterson hat am Mittwoch, 25. August 2010 geschrieben: How? Once you work with PM, the other time with Entourage? Sounds crazy ... You cannot work with two different mail programs. Of course you can, but problems are preprogrammed. Come on it isn't that complex. I have a laptop. On the laptop when I am away, I check POP email on my site. I sort the mail as it comes in. I'm testing PM as a replacement for Entourage. When I get home, I fire up my desktop and run Entourage. All the email not manually deleted in PM on the laptop SHOULD remain on the server for download in Entourage. What I found is that some of the messages that should have been left on the server were gone. I don't know how Entourage works, but I guess it's different from PM ... However: Just for such cases (mobile mailing _and_ home/office mailing with the same account) an IMAP4 account should be your method of choice! It's much better and safer then a POP3 account. To understand the big difference have a look at this: http://www1.umn.edu/adcs/guides/email/imapvspop.html http://email.cityu.edu.hk/faq/popimap.htm Helpful for the IMAP installation on PM: http://www.ctmdev.com/powermail/manual/imap.html (http://www.ctmdev.com/powermail/manual/) And finally: You better work with the same mail software on laptop and home pc.
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
On 8/25/10 5:05 PM, PowerMail discussions wrote: However: Just for such cases (mobile mailing_and_ home/office mailing with the same account) an IMAP4 account should be your method of choice! It's much better and safer then a POP3 account. To understand the big difference have a look at this: Well, for mobile apps, that makes sense I guess. But for the home office, I don't want to store mail on the server and have it set to delete it after 30 days. Having a local copy and a searchable database of emails is part of my workflow. Otherwise with IMAP I have to leave it disorganized online or I have to duplicate my folder structure on the server. That is a pain and a duplication of my efforts. Not efficient or helpful. Jeff Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com (724)-482-2015
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
On 8/21/10 9:46 AM, Rene Merz wrote: Well, did you check-it really? What works in Entourage may not work the same way in Power Mail. The two programs are different ... Okay, what settings would I check on the server that would prevent PM from deleting read emails? Jeff Jefferis Peterson, Pres. Web Design and Marketing http://www.PetersonSales.com (724)-482-2015
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Jefferis Peterson wrote: [...] Clicking URL links in emails does not always work. It is a known issue, but when and why it works and why it doesn't is a mystery. In PM it works always, as long as the URL is written in an absolutely correct way (sometimes there are spaces in between which may not be there or if a long URL contains a manually sedately line break). But the safest way to write an URL into a mail is to copy and paste it from the browser address-field and to put-it between and (while pasting-it, PM places the and itself): http://www.ctmdev.com/support/mailing-lists-manage-your-p.html is much safer (for all mail programs!) then http://www.ctmdev.com/support/mailing-lists-manage-your-p.html especially if the URL is a long one and broken by a line break in the mail. You cannot save common search features like saving a display of unread mail. There is a recent mail, but that does not display unread mail. (Don't understand this point.) You cannot create an HTML email. Thanks God! HTML mails are for me the most unwanted mail configuration. (But if you have to create-it, you'll find tools outside PM.) Although I have Powermail set to delete emails from the server that I have deleted from PM, it fails to delete them on next connection. Sometimes it retrieves emails and then removes them from the server instead of leaving them on the server as instructed. This is important for me when I travel and need to have copies left on the server to be downloaded when I get home. Maybe you have to change also your configuration on your mail server. Login there and check the settings.
Re(2): Switching to Powermail maybe
r.m...@telquel.net Jefferis Peterson wrote: [...] Clicking URL links in emails does not always work. It is a known issue, but when and why it works and why it doesn't is a mystery. In PM it works always, as long as the URL is written in an absolutely correct way (sometimes there are spaces in between which may not be there or if a long URL contains a manually sedately line break). But the safest way to write an URL into a mail is to copy and paste it from the browser address-field and to put-it between and (while pasting-it, PM places the and itself): http://www.ctmdev.com/support/mailing-lists-manage-your-p.html is much safer (for all mail programs!) then http://www.ctmdev.com/support/mailing-lists-manage-your-p.html especially if the URL is a long one and broken by a line break in the mail. Where I find it not working is mostly in viewing HTML emails that have graphic links or text links. You cannot save common search features like saving a display of unread mail. There is a recent mail, but that does not display unread mail. (Don't understand this point.) Entourage has a Saved Search feature at the bottom of the folders column and in it are default views like unread mail (or Flagged, received today, or any personal search terms you save ) which, when you click them, show a view similar to the In Tray, but with all unread mail, not just recent mail. You cannot create an HTML email. Thanks God! HTML mails are for me the most unwanted mail configuration. (But if you have to create-it, you'll find tools outside PM.) Well, sometimes my work requires it, and sometimes I just want to send a comic dragged and dropped. Although I have Powermail set to delete emails from the server that I have deleted from PM, it fails to delete them on next connection. Sometimes it retrieves emails and then removes them from the server instead of leaving them on the server as instructed. This is important for me when I travel and need to have copies left on the server to be downloaded when I get home. Maybe you have to change also your configuration on your mail server. Login there and check the settings. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with my server settings. This works perfectly for me in Entourage. * Jefferis Kent Peterson www.PetersonSales.net Flash, Web Design and Marketing 111 S. Magnolia Dr. Butler, PA 16001 724-482-2015
Re(2): Switching to Powermail maybe
j...@jpcr.com If you create an email to a group and then save it as a draft instead of sending it, the next time you open the email the group is expanded. I've always thought of this as a bug, but it sounds like you might think of it as a featture! Good to know. Thank you! Jeff * Jefferis Kent Peterson www.PetersonSales.net Flash, Web Design and Marketing 111 S. Magnolia Dr. Butler, PA 16001 724-482-2015
Re(2): Switching to Powermail maybe
j...@jpcr.com Clicking URL links in emails does not always work. It is a known issue, but when and why it works and why it doesn't is a mystery. I find that double-clicking works reliably (except for when it doesn't) Jim Yeah, usually double clicking works, but not always and usually it is in html mail. PM says that this has something to do with an incomplete webkit release from apple... Jeff * Jefferis Kent Peterson www.PetersonSales.net Flash, Web Design and Marketing 111 S. Magnolia Dr. Butler, PA 16001 724-482-2015
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Jefferis Peterson wrote: r.m...@[xxx].net Please do not publish the mail-address of senders in your answer in a mailing list. I get enough SPAM. Clicking URL links in emails does not always work. It is a known issue, but when and why it works and why it doesn't is a mystery. In PM it works always, as long as the URL is written in an absolutely correct way (sometimes there are spaces in between which may not be there or if a long URL contains a manually sedately line break). But the safest way to write an URL into a mail is to copy and paste it from the browser address-field and to put-it between and (while pasting-it, PM places the and itself): http://www.ctmdev.com/support/mailing-lists-manage-your-p.html is much safer (for all mail programs!) then http://www.ctmdev.com/support/mailing-lists-manage-your-p.html especially if the URL is a long one and broken by a line break in the mail. Where I find it not working is mostly in viewing HTML emails that have graphic links or text links. HTML Mails, of course, you should view in an specific way: In the foot strip of the PM window of any HTML mail you see a round blue sign on which you can click (preferable choice of the two possibilities: show the message in the web[or similar in English]) - then also the links work! [...] Although I have Powermail set to delete emails from the server that I have deleted from PM, it fails to delete them on next connection. Sometimes it retrieves emails and then removes them from the server instead of leaving them on the server as instructed. This is important for me when I travel and need to have copies left on the server to be downloaded when I get home. Maybe you have to change also your configuration on your mail server. Login there and check the settings. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with my server settings. This works perfectly for me in Entourage. Well, did you check-it really? What works in Entourage may not work the same way in Power Mail. The two programs are different ...
Switching to Powermail maybe
I created a blog about my desire to switch from Entourage to another program.http://incisivereview.wordpress.com/ Powermail has been my most earnest attempt to replace Entourage, but I've run into a few problems. Hoping you all can help with solutions. I'm now on day 5 of my switch to Powermail from Entourage. I did not find my gold mine or oasis yet. Fortunately, I have had Powermail for a LONG time and I had some filters set up, which I had to modify to match the new folders layout. But I have run into a few problems and inconveniences: In Entourage, I can send messages to Groups and then Expand the Group and remove people from the outgoing mail individually. I have about 20 people with whom I share jokes, but I don't send them back to the ones who have already received them or the one who sent it to me. I sent using BCC. But there is no way to edit and outgoing group in PM without editing the group's members in Address Book. Some of my filters are not catching members of groups and I'm not sure why. I sort incoming mail by group membership. Either that, or it is not catching incoming mail by labels. If Address Book is used as the default AB in Powermail, you cannot label an address. Clicking URL links in emails does not always work. It is a known issue, but when and why it works and why it doesn't is a mystery. You cannot save common search features like saving a display of unread mail. There is a recent mail, but that does not display unread mail. You cannot create an HTML email. Although I have Powermail set to delete emails from the server that I have deleted from PM, it fails to delete them on next connection. Sometimes it retrieves emails and then removes them from the server instead of leaving them on the server as instructed. This is important for me when I travel and need to have copies left on the server to be downloaded when I get home. I'm still struggling to like this setup, but I'd say so far, it is just an okay solution. I miss some of the functionality of Entourage. * Jefferis Kent Peterson www.PetersonSales.net Flash, Web Design and Marketing 111 S. Magnolia Dr. Butler, PA 16001 724-482-2015
Re: Switching to Powermail maybe
Hi Jefferis, But there is no way to edit an outgoing group in PM without editing the group's members in Address Book. If you create an email to a group and then save it as a draft instead of sending it, the next time you open the email the group is expanded. I've always thought of this as a bug, but it sounds like you might think of it as a featture! Clicking URL links in emails does not always work. It is a known issue, but when and why it works and why it doesn't is a mystery. I find that double-clicking works reliably (except for when it doesn't) Jim -- Jim Pistrang JP Computer Resources Certified Member, Apple Consultants Network 413-256-4569 http://www.jpcr.com
