Re: passed along to engineering
I wish we could get this far with Logic! lol. GF On Nov 14, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote: > Finally, this morning I got the following message from Apple: > We will pass this along to our engineering department. Please provide exact > step by > step instructions on how to reproduce these issues. Please be as specific as > possible as > the people testing this may not be familiar with Pro tools. > Please also be aware that if an issue is found with Voiceover when in use > with Pro tools, > we cannot comment on when this may be resolved. This may also still require a > change in code on Avids part. > > Apple Accessibility > > Please keep responding until you get the same response or something to that > effect. > > Thanks, > > Slau > GF Check me out on twitter http://www.twitter.com/goldfingas
Re: details about my meeting with Avid on October 25
Awesome efords Slau and it certainly sounds as if the meeting whent very well and positive. It's great that some of the Avid guys are actually behind the idea of accessibility and the Ed guy beeing blind can also help the cause because having to use accessibility he would understand our position. Don't know if this is true and can't remember details but a while back I heard someware that in the very early OSx and voiceover days, a top guy at Apple had a blind sun and he personally through a lot of his weight behind voiceover because of his sun. Anyway let's hope for option A, the big boss throaghing his weight behind accessibility, otherwise option B raising money is certainly a option. Thanks again Slau. Brian Casey wrote: > Even better than i expected Slau and I've come to expect great things from > you by now! > > Very well handled! Going to the very top might be crazy enough to work! > > Great work > Brian > > On 14/11/2012, at 8:14 PM, "Slau Halatyn" wrote: > > > As some of you might recall, David Gibbons, the person who was truly to > > thank for finally making the work of accessibility happen at Digidesign, > > left the company a couple of years ago. He was and continues to be a great > > source of support for the cause of making Pro Tools more accessible. The > > reigns within Avid were handed to Bobby Lombardi. Bobby was present at the > > meeting where we saw the first results of the programming work done for > > VoiceOver. Bobby, in fact, was the first and only person of those who > > attended that meeting to respond to my follow up email thanking those in > > attendance. Unfortunately, Bobby took over at a time when Avid began to > > slash their workforce. Massive layoffs commenced and Avid underwent severe > > cutbacks. During this time, my limited contact with Bobby made one thing > > clear: Avid was not going to do anything concerning accessibility when they > > were scrambling to minimize their bleeding. It was also quite clear that > > Avid's focus was on their video market. It's widely known that Avid bought > > Digidesign to ensure a robust audio platform for their video business. With > > Pro Tools in the service of their Avid video production environment, the > > music production aspect of Pro Tools was cut back. Hence, the sale of > > M-Audio (where they lost tens upon tens of millions) and the cutting of > > Advanced Instrument Research or AIR plug-ins. With resources at a minimum > > and continuing to shrink, it was communicated to me that things were highly > > uncertain because of their inner crises. there was never a time when Bobby > > outrightly said they would not continue the work. He only indicated that > > they essentially had no development capacity. He suggested that they might > > be able to gain some headway through something called "hack-a-thon" where > > engineers essentially spend a weekend to take on a programming project just > > to throw things on the wall and see what sticks. Sometimes, it's a pet > > project, a new feature, a shot in the dark. Sometimes it can be an idea put > > forth by a given team. He suggested that it might be a way to address the > > immediate issue of the AAX plug-in accessibility. After weeks had gone by > > and there seemed to be no word, I scheduled the meeting for October. > > > > Bobby, as nice of a guy as he is, is not the best at returning emails. He > > did, however, promptly reply to me and agreed to the meeting. In fact, he > > invited a couple of other people at Avid including Rich Holmes, another > > attendee from our last meeting. Bobby did mention in his reply that someone > > had taken a look at the AAX issue and they didn't see any easy way to fix > > it. This didn't concern me at the time because I felt it was more important > > to have the meeting and address the bigger picture first. By the time it > > got to our meeting there were several more people present including guys > > from UI design, programming, special projects and partnering. The > > partnering guy is the one in charge of third-party developers. This was > > probably going to be an important person at some point along the way. > > > > When I got to the meeting, I saw Rich Holmes first. As I mentioned, Rich > > was at the previous meeting. He was quite impressed with the work Xiang, > > the intern, had done with VoiceOver support in Pro Tools back in 2009. At > > that meeting, Rich asked a lot of questions and took a very genuine > > interest in the subject. He was the one who was concerned with plug-in > > accessibility when we faced the possibility of not having plug-in > > accessibility in the initial 8.0.3 release. His concern was, if we didn't > > have accessible plug-ins, what was the point? In other words, he felt that > > it was important enough to pursue a solution somehow. I indicated to him > > that, while plug-ins were certainly critical, it would at least be usable > > for recording and editin
Re: details about my meeting with Avid on October 25
I couldn't do much, with my bills and budget, but again, I'd also be willing to put in maybe like $50 or so to the project, if it came down to it. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @gilland_chris Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 - Original Message - From: "Cameron Strife" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 3:53 PM Subject: Re: details about my meeting with Avid on October 25 Hi Slau. That's encouraging. Thank you very much for all you've invested in this quest;time, work, money etc. If it did come down to something like a Kickstarter fundraising campaign, I for one would certainly contribute financially and help spread the word via social media etc. Cameron. On 11/14/12, Slau Halatyn wrote: As some of you might recall, David Gibbons, the person who was truly to thank for finally making the work of accessibility happen at Digidesign, left the company a couple of years ago. He was and continues to be a great source of support for the cause of making Pro Tools more accessible. The reigns within Avid were handed to Bobby Lombardi. Bobby was present at the meeting where we saw the first results of the programming work done for VoiceOver. Bobby, in fact, was the first and only person of those who attended that meeting to respond to my follow up email thanking those in attendance. Unfortunately, Bobby took over at a time when Avid began to slash their workforce. Massive layoffs commenced and Avid underwent severe cutbacks. During this time, my limited contact with Bobby made one thing clear: Avid was not going to do anything concerning accessibility when they were scrambling to minimize their bleeding. It was also quite clear that Avid's focus was on their video market. It's widely known that Avid bought Digidesign to ensure a robust audio platform for their video business. With Pro Tools in the service of their Avid video production environment, the music production aspect of Pro Tools was cut back. Hence, the sale of M-Audio (where they lost tens upon tens of millions) and the cutting of Advanced Instrument Research or AIR plug-ins. With resources at a minimum and continuing to shrink, it was communicated to me that things were highly uncertain because of their inner crises. there was never a time when Bobby outrightly said they would not continue the work. He only indicated that they essentially had no development capacity. He suggested that they might be able to gain some headway through something called "hack-a-thon" where engineers essentially spend a weekend to take on a programming project just to throw things on the wall and see what sticks. Sometimes, it's a pet project, a new feature, a shot in the dark. Sometimes it can be an idea put forth by a given team. He suggested that it might be a way to address the immediate issue of the AAX plug-in accessibility. After weeks had gone by and there seemed to be no word, I scheduled the meeting for October. Bobby, as nice of a guy as he is, is not the best at returning emails. He did, however, promptly reply to me and agreed to the meeting. In fact, he invited a couple of other people at Avid including Rich Holmes, another attendee from our last meeting. Bobby did mention in his reply that someone had taken a look at the AAX issue and they didn't see any easy way to fix it. This didn't concern me at the time because I felt it was more important to have the meeting and address the bigger picture first. By the time it got to our meeting there were several more people present including guys from UI design, programming, special projects and partnering. The partnering guy is the one in charge of third-party developers. This was probably going to be an important person at some point along the way. When I got to the meeting, I saw Rich Holmes first. As I mentioned, Rich was at the previous meeting. He was quite impressed with the work Xiang, the intern, had done with VoiceOver support in Pro Tools back in 2009. At that meeting, Rich asked a lot of questions and took a very genuine interest in the subject. He was the one who was concerned with plug-in accessibility when we faced the possibility of not having plug-in accessibility in the initial 8.0.3 release. His concern was, if we didn't have accessible plug-ins, what was the point? In other words, he felt that it was important enough to pursue a solution somehow. I indicated to him that, while plug-ins were certainly critical, it would at least be usable for recording and editing, at least for a start. As it turned out, Xiang figured out a work
Re: This is wonderful! Fw: Problem with accessibility in Mountain Lion
You? thanking me? I'm humbled! Frankly, if anyone in this should be thanked, it's you! You have gone out of your way! to make this software easy for us to use. I'd just like to apologize for the verbal attack I put on Apple the other day regarding them not being committed to accessibility. I do still feel that sometimes they get in over their heads, and probably procrastinate doing certain things, but, that doesn't excuse the public comments that I made. With that said, I genuinely ask that you accept my apology. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @gilland_chris Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 - Original Message - From: "Slau Halatyn" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 3:26 PM Subject: Re: This is wonderful! Fw: Problem with accessibility in Mountain Lion thanks for your persistence, Chris. Cheers, Slau On Nov 14, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: Guys, This is excellent! Look at this reply from Apple. Looks like maybe we're finally getting somewhere, hopefully. - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:23 PM Subject: Re: Problem with accessibility in Mountain Lion Hello, Thank you for your email. We've passed this on to the appropriate people for their investigation. Apple Accessibility Follow-up: 238800260 With all do respect, I have to completely disagree with what you're saying. It worked fine in both Snow Leopard and in Lion, so there is absolutely no excuse for it not working in Mountain Lion. Before you fire me back a canned response reidderating what you already said, I encourage all of you at accessibility to first have a look at this for more information before jumping the gun saying it's Avid's issue, not you all's. http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/Pro-Tools-10-3-2-Downloads
Re: This is wonderful! Fw: Problem with accessibility in Mountain Lion
Similar response here. Well done chaps, let's see what happens next! Scott On 14 Nov 2012, at 20:26, Slau Halatyn wrote: > thanks for your persistence, Chris. > > Cheers, > > Slau > > On Nov 14, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: > >> Guys, >> >> This is excellent! Look at this reply from Apple. Looks like maybe we're >> finally getting somewhere, hopefully. >> >> - Original Message - From: >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:23 PM >> Subject: Re: Problem with accessibility in Mountain Lion >> >> >> Hello, >>> Thank you for your email. We've passed this on to the appropriate people >>> for their investigation. >>> >>> Apple Accessibility >>> >>> Follow-up: 238800260 >>> >>> With all do respect, I have to completely disagree with what you're saying. >>> >>> It worked fine in both Snow Leopard and in Lion, so there is absolutely no >>> excuse for it not working in Mountain Lion. >>> >>> Before you fire me back a canned response reidderating what you already >>> said, I encourage all of you at accessibility to first have a look at this >>> for more information before jumping the gun saying it's Avid's issue, not >>> you all's. >>> >>> http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/Pro-Tools-10-3-2-Downloads >
Re: to Slau
Thanks, Brian, I appreciate the support and kind words. I'm hopeful if not determined :) Stay tuned and I'll keep everyone posted. Cheers, Slau On Nov 14, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Brian Howerton wrote: > Hello Slau, > It has been a while since I have posted to the list, but I just got done > reading your last email in regards to the meeting you had at Avid. It got me > very excited and I am eager to see what happens next. I wanted to personally > thank you for the effort you are making to get protools complete > accessibility for us as audio engineers. It means more to me than you will > ever know and I mean that wholeheartedly! I just wanted to take a minute and > personally thank you for all you are doing. I am truly grateful! As I said, > I look forward to seeing what happens next! Thank you again Slau, > Brian
Re: some more details about the meeting and your support
Thanks, Chris. No worries at all. We're all good all around. Cheers, Slau On Nov 14, 2012, at 4:13 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: > Being I wasn't much involved in this thread, although I was to a very small > degree, I, too, would like to publicly apologize to Slau if perhaps I got a > bit carried away. > > Thank you kindly, >
Re: details about my meeting with Avid on October 25
Epic, in both length and content! Thanks as ever for the time and sweat that this must be taking. Keep us posted when you hear back from the big G. Scott On 14 Nov 2012, at 20:14, Slau Halatyn wrote: As some of you might recall, David Gibbons, the person who was truly to thank for finally making the work of accessibility happen at Digidesign, left the company a couple of years ago. He was and continues to be a great source of support for the cause of making Pro Tools more accessible. The reigns within Avid were handed to Bobby Lombardi. Bobby was present at the meeting where we saw the first results of the programming work done for VoiceOver. Bobby, in fact, was the first and only person of those who attended that meeting to respond to my follow up email thanking those in attendance. Unfortunately, Bobby took over at a time when Avid began to slash their workforce. Massive layoffs commenced and Avid underwent severe cutbacks. During this time, my limited contact with Bobby made one thing clear: Avid was not going to do anything concerning accessibility when they were scrambling to minimize their bleeding. It was also quite clear that Avid's focus was on their video market. It's widely known that Avid bought Digidesign to ensure a robust audio platform for their video business. With Pro Tools in the service of their Avid video production environment, the music production aspect of Pro Tools was cut back. Hence, the sale of M-Audio (where they lost tens upon tens of millions) and the cutting of Advanced Instrument Research or AIR plug-ins. With resources at a minimum and continuing to shrink, it was communicated to me that things were highly uncertain because of their inner crises. there was never a time when Bobby outrightly said they would not continue the work. He only indicated that they essentially had no development capacity. He suggested that they might be able to gain some headway through something called "hack-a-thon" where engineers essentially spend a weekend to take on a programming project just to throw things on the wall and see what sticks. Sometimes, it's a pet project, a new feature, a shot in the dark. Sometimes it can be an idea put forth by a given team. He suggested that it might be a way to address the immediate issue of the AAX plug-in accessibility. After weeks had gone by and there seemed to be no word, I scheduled the meeting for October. Bobby, as nice of a guy as he is, is not the best at returning emails. He did, however, promptly reply to me and agreed to the meeting. In fact, he invited a couple of other people at Avid including Rich Holmes, another attendee from our last meeting. Bobby did mention in his reply that someone had taken a look at the AAX issue and they didn't see any easy way to fix it. This didn't concern me at the time because I felt it was more important to have the meeting and address the bigger picture first. By the time it got to our meeting there were several more people present including guys from UI design, programming, special projects and partnering. The partnering guy is the one in charge of third-party developers. This was probably going to be an important person at some point along the way. When I got to the meeting, I saw Rich Holmes first. As I mentioned, Rich was at the previous meeting. He was quite impressed with the work Xiang, the intern, had done with VoiceOver support in Pro Tools back in 2009. At that meeting, Rich asked a lot of questions and took a very genuine interest in the subject. He was the one who was concerned with plug-in accessibility when we faced the possibility of not having plug-in accessibility in the initial 8.0.3 release. His concern was, if we didn't have accessible plug-ins, what was the point? In other words, he felt that it was important enough to pursue a solution somehow. I indicated to him that, while plug-ins were certainly critical, it would at least be usable for recording and editing, at least for a start. As it turned out, Xiang figured out a work-around and managed to implement it for the 8.0.4 release. Anyway, that's just a little background about Rich. back to our previously scheduled meeting… I was told that Bobby would probably not be joining us. It wasn't entirely surprising to me because I had learned, quite accidentally, from an interview with bobby on Pensado's Place that bobby was no longer in charge of Pro Tools and that he was moving over to the Sibelius side of things. rich Holmes was the new person in charge of Pro Tools, both hardware and software. Frankly, I was relieved that the new person to take over was a person with whom I've already interfaced and had some background with. The next person to walk in was a bit of a surprise. It was Ed Gray, the person in charge of partnering, like I said, the third-party developer liaison. Ed's been with Digidesign/Avid for about 17 years. Several years ago, Ed started having trouble with his vision due to glaucoma. Two years ago he lost a sign
Re: some more details about the meeting and your support
Being I wasn't much involved in this thread, although I was to a very small degree, I, too, would like to publicly apologize to Slau if perhaps I got a bit carried away. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @gilland_chris Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 - Original Message - From: "Nickus de Vos" To: "Pro Tools Accessibility" Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 1:40 PM Subject: Re: some more details about the meeting and your support Hi Slau No matter what, you are still the man in charge, the boss and I do appriciate everything you have done so far for PT accessibility. The reason for my suggestion earlyer on the other thread was because I think it might help in some way to maybe speed things up a bit if needed. However Slau, I trust your judgment and that is why I won't aproach the PT expert guys on my own, if there's someone who must do it, it must be you when ever you think the time is right. I'm sorry for sometimes disaggreeing with you, I'm just so passionit about this and it sometimes feals as if we're standing still and more gets broken than what gets improved or fixed. Taking nothing away from the guys doing the PT and music thing as a hobby, much like yourself, sound and music is my life and eventually PT will be my bread and butter. Currently my bread and butter is not exclusively PT because I'm involved in other ventures and because of the industry I can't venture in to the recording world full time at the moment however I have strong future plans to do so. We are already very far with PT accessibility but it is important that accessibility keeps improving if not at least staying the same in future PT versions. As said earlyer the entire PT comunity is currently unsure about the future especially with what's going to happen in PT11 with older hardware and then there's also 3rd party plug manufacturers having to adopt the aax standard. Totally breaking something in a new version of PT for example aax not working when PT10 launched is simply unexceptable and very crucial to someone who use PT to pay the bills. Anyway enough for now, Slau, I'm 100% behind you and your dissisions, hope there's no hard feelings. Chris Norman wrote: Sorry, hit the wrong key there... There's obviously things you can't discuss, and that's fine, but as you said, when people don't know the whole truth, they tend to jump to assumptions or whatever, as we have obviously done with suggesting Avid be brought into the loop regarding this bug and so on. But, now you've said all that, I'll personally try and be more understanding etc, but please please please, if there's anything we can do, please let us know. I feel strongly about Pro Tools accessibility, and not because I think it's my right as a blind user to be able to use Pro Tools, but because I enjoy working with Pro Tools, and it's a world better than using Garage Band to record with. Maybe if and when logic Accessibility comes along, I'll feel different, Logic certainly looks like a nice piece of software, but I'm sure there'll always be room for PT. Anyways, I'll stop rambling now, but stay on it, and remember there's a whole community willing to help in any way we can. Look forward to hearing of your progress, and as always, have fun! Take care, Chris Norman On 14 Nov 2012, at 16:27, Slau Halatyn wrote: > Members of this list, > > I'm writing an open letter to all of you with my concerns and a request. > I've been working on the issue of Pro Tools accessibility for a very > long time. I wasn't involved with the initial progress back in OS 9 but > I did become deeply involved under OS X. I never campaigned for this > "position," for lack of a better word but I took on the role, firstly, > for personal reasons, having wanted to have an accessible platform as an > audio engineer and, secondly, for the sake of many blind musicians who > needed a unified voice representing the immediate concerns for an > accessible Pro Tools platform. I've spent enormous sums of money and > countless hours on this project. I never asked for a dime, mostly > because of my personal interest in the outcome but also because I never > wanted to feel like I was beholden to anybody in any way. There were > times, sometimes huge swaths of time, that often passed with no visible > results but I knew it was time well spent because of the quality of the > relationships I've built and the results we've gotten so far. > > I now know what it probably feels like to be a politician. Let me assure > you that it's no stroll in the park
Re: Question about monitoring vocals
OK, thanks for the suggestion. I tend to have to agree. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @gilland_chris Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 - Original Message - From: "Kevin Reeves" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:14 PM Subject: Re: Question about monitoring vocals I wouldn't record with Autotune running as it eats up processor and can throw off your vocal while you're singing. But your COmpressor and a verb is fine. Kevin On Nov 14, 2012, at 11:13 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: Is there a reason why I get a lotta ladency when I insert auto-Tune? I'm trying to lean more away from that plugin as much as I can, but sometimes, I do still use it on rare occasions. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @gilland_chris Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 - Original Message - From: "Kevin Reeves" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Question about monitoring vocals I just input at around -10, and insert the comp while recording, which will crank up the output gain to a desirable level. It's just a matter of preference. I prefer recording with some effects on to help the process along.
Re: details about my meeting with Avid on October 25
Hi Slau. That's encouraging. Thank you very much for all you've invested in this quest;time, work, money etc. If it did come down to something like a Kickstarter fundraising campaign, I for one would certainly contribute financially and help spread the word via social media etc. Cameron. On 11/14/12, Slau Halatyn wrote: > As some of you might recall, David Gibbons, the person who was truly to > thank for finally making the work of accessibility happen at Digidesign, > left the company a couple of years ago. He was and continues to be a great > source of support for the cause of making Pro Tools more accessible. The > reigns within Avid were handed to Bobby Lombardi. Bobby was present at the > meeting where we saw the first results of the programming work done for > VoiceOver. Bobby, in fact, was the first and only person of those who > attended that meeting to respond to my follow up email thanking those in > attendance. Unfortunately, Bobby took over at a time when Avid began to > slash their workforce. Massive layoffs commenced and Avid underwent severe > cutbacks. During this time, my limited contact with Bobby made one thing > clear: Avid was not going to do anything concerning accessibility when they > were scrambling to minimize their bleeding. It was also quite clear that > Avid's focus was on their video market. It's widely known that Avid bought > Digidesign to ensure a robust audio platform for their video business. With > Pro Tools in the service of their Avid video production environment, the > music production aspect of Pro Tools was cut back. Hence, the sale of > M-Audio (where they lost tens upon tens of millions) and the cutting of > Advanced Instrument Research or AIR plug-ins. With resources at a minimum > and continuing to shrink, it was communicated to me that things were highly > uncertain because of their inner crises. there was never a time when Bobby > outrightly said they would not continue the work. He only indicated that > they essentially had no development capacity. He suggested that they might > be able to gain some headway through something called "hack-a-thon" where > engineers essentially spend a weekend to take on a programming project just > to throw things on the wall and see what sticks. Sometimes, it's a pet > project, a new feature, a shot in the dark. Sometimes it can be an idea put > forth by a given team. He suggested that it might be a way to address the > immediate issue of the AAX plug-in accessibility. After weeks had gone by > and there seemed to be no word, I scheduled the meeting for October. > > Bobby, as nice of a guy as he is, is not the best at returning emails. He > did, however, promptly reply to me and agreed to the meeting. In fact, he > invited a couple of other people at Avid including Rich Holmes, another > attendee from our last meeting. Bobby did mention in his reply that someone > had taken a look at the AAX issue and they didn't see any easy way to fix > it. This didn't concern me at the time because I felt it was more important > to have the meeting and address the bigger picture first. By the time it got > to our meeting there were several more people present including guys from UI > design, programming, special projects and partnering. The partnering guy is > the one in charge of third-party developers. This was probably going to be > an important person at some point along the way. > > When I got to the meeting, I saw Rich Holmes first. As I mentioned, Rich was > at the previous meeting. He was quite impressed with the work Xiang, the > intern, had done with VoiceOver support in Pro Tools back in 2009. At that > meeting, Rich asked a lot of questions and took a very genuine interest in > the subject. He was the one who was concerned with plug-in accessibility > when we faced the possibility of not having plug-in accessibility in the > initial 8.0.3 release. His concern was, if we didn't have accessible > plug-ins, what was the point? In other words, he felt that it was important > enough to pursue a solution somehow. I indicated to him that, while > plug-ins were certainly critical, it would at least be usable for recording > and editing, at least for a start. As it turned out, Xiang figured out a > work-around and managed to implement it for the 8.0.4 release. Anyway, > that's just a little background about Rich. back to our previously scheduled > meeting… > > I was told that Bobby would probably not be joining us. It wasn't entirely > surprising to me because I had learned, quite accidentally, from an > interview with bobby on Pensado's Place that bobby was no longer in charge > of Pro Tools and that he was moving over to the Sibelius side of things. > rich Holmes was the new person in charge of Pro Tools, both hardware and > software. Frankly, I was relieved that the new person to take over was a > person with whom I've already interfaced and had some background with. > > The next person to walk in was a bit of a surprise. It
to Slau
Hello Slau, It has been a while since I have posted to the list, but I just got done reading your last email in regards to the meeting you had at Avid. It got me very excited and I am eager to see what happens next. I wanted to personally thank you for the effort you are making to get protools complete accessibility for us as audio engineers. It means more to me than you will ever know and I mean that wholeheartedly! I just wanted to take a minute and personally thank you for all you are doing. I am truly grateful! As I said, I look forward to seeing what happens next! Thank you again Slau, Brian
Re: This is wonderful! Fw: Problem with accessibility in Mountain Lion
thanks for your persistence, Chris. Cheers, Slau On Nov 14, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: > Guys, > > This is excellent! Look at this reply from Apple. Looks like maybe we're > finally getting somewhere, hopefully. > > - Original Message - From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:23 PM > Subject: Re: Problem with accessibility in Mountain Lion > > > Hello, >> Thank you for your email. We've passed this on to the appropriate people for >> their investigation. >> >> Apple Accessibility >> >> Follow-up: 238800260 >> >> With all do respect, I have to completely disagree with what you're saying. >> >> It worked fine in both Snow Leopard and in Lion, so there is absolutely no >> excuse for it not working in Mountain Lion. >> >> Before you fire me back a canned response reidderating what you already >> said, I encourage all of you at accessibility to first have a look at this >> for more information before jumping the gun saying it's Avid's issue, not >> you all's. >> >> http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/Pro-Tools-10-3-2-Downloads >> >
This is wonderful! Fw: Problem with accessibility in Mountain Lion
Guys, This is excellent! Look at this reply from Apple. Looks like maybe we're finally getting somewhere, hopefully. - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:23 PM Subject: Re: Problem with accessibility in Mountain Lion Hello, Thank you for your email. We've passed this on to the appropriate people for their investigation. Apple Accessibility Follow-up: 238800260 With all do respect, I have to completely disagree with what you're saying. It worked fine in both Snow Leopard and in Lion, so there is absolutely no excuse for it not working in Mountain Lion. Before you fire me back a canned response reidderating what you already said, I encourage all of you at accessibility to first have a look at this for more information before jumping the gun saying it's Avid's issue, not you all's. http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/Pro-Tools-10-3-2-Downloads
Re: some more details about the meeting and your support
No worries, Nickus. You needn't apologize for a difference of opinion. That's your right as a human being. I do appreciate your trust in the near future. I've gotten at least some results in the past, I have a feeling I might be able to get some more results in the near future. There is a very specific circumstance under which we might need a lot of public awareness and support. See my other post about the meeting details for more information about that potentiality. For now, we're good. Thanks, Slau On Nov 14, 2012, at 1:40 PM, Nickus de Vos wrote: > Hi Slau > No matter what, you are still the man in charge, the boss and I do > appriciate everything you have done so far for PT accessibility. The > reason for my suggestion earlyer on the other thread was because I > think it might help in some way to maybe speed things up a bit if > needed. However Slau, I trust your judgment and that is why I won't > aproach the PT expert guys on my own, if there's someone who must do > it, it must be you when ever you think the time is right. > I'm sorry for sometimes disaggreeing with you, I'm just so passionit > about this and it sometimes feals as if we're standing still and more > gets broken than what gets improved or fixed. Taking nothing away from > the guys doing the PT and music thing as a hobby, much like yourself, > sound and music is my life and eventually PT will be my bread and > butter. Currently my bread and butter is not exclusively PT because > I'm involved in other ventures and because of the industry I can't > venture in to the recording world full time at the moment however I > have strong future plans to do so. We are already very far with PT > accessibility but it is important that accessibility keeps improving > if not at least staying the same in future PT versions. As said > earlyer the entire PT comunity is currently unsure about the future > especially with what's going to happen in PT11 with older hardware and > then there's also 3rd party plug manufacturers having to adopt the aax > standard. Totally breaking something in a new version of PT for > example aax not working when PT10 launched is simply unexceptable and > very crucial to someone who use PT to pay the bills. > Anyway enough for now, Slau, I'm 100% behind you and your dissisions, > hope there's no hard feelings. > Chris Norman wrote: >> Sorry, hit the wrong key there... >> >> There's obviously things you can't discuss, and that's fine, but as you >> said, when people don't know the whole truth, they tend to jump to >> assumptions or whatever, as we have obviously done with suggesting Avid be >> brought into the loop regarding this bug and so on. >> >> But, now you've said all that, I'll personally try and be more understanding >> etc, but please please please, if there's anything we can do, please let us >> know. I feel strongly about Pro Tools accessibility, and not because I think >> it's my right as a blind user to be able to use Pro Tools, but because I >> enjoy working with Pro Tools, and it's a world better than using Garage Band >> to record with. Maybe if and when logic Accessibility comes along, I'll feel >> different, Logic certainly looks like a nice piece of software, but I'm sure >> there'll always be room for PT. >> >> Anyways, I'll stop rambling now, but stay on it, and remember there's a >> whole community willing to help in any way we can. >> >> Look forward to hearing of your progress, and as always, have fun! >> >> Take care, >> Chris Norman >> >> >> >> >> On 14 Nov 2012, at 16:27, Slau Halatyn wrote: >> >>> Members of this list, >>> >>> I'm writing an open letter to all of you with my concerns and a request. >>> I've been working on the issue of Pro Tools accessibility for a very long >>> time. I wasn't involved with the initial progress back in OS 9 but I did >>> become deeply involved under OS X. I never campaigned for this "position," >>> for lack of a better word but I took on the role, firstly, for personal >>> reasons, having wanted to have an accessible platform as an audio engineer >>> and, secondly, for the sake of many blind musicians who needed a unified >>> voice representing the immediate concerns for an accessible Pro Tools >>> platform. I've spent enormous sums of money and countless hours on this >>> project. I never asked for a dime, mostly because of my personal interest >>> in the outcome but also because I never wanted to feel like I was beholden >>> to anybody in any way. There were times, sometimes huge swaths of time, >>> that often passed with no visible results but I knew it was time well spent >>> because of the quality of the relationships I've built and the results >>> we've gotten so far. >>> >>> I now know what it probably feels like to be a politician. Let me assure >>> you that it's no stroll in the park. Sometimes, you are not at liberty to >>> discuss certain details openly for any number of reasons. I have a new >>> appreciatio
Re: some more details about the meeting and your support
Chris, We all feel passionately about it, I'm sure. As I mentioned to Gord, we all want Logic as well. Hell, every DAW should be accessible for that matter. Naturally, Pro Tools has become the first fish to fry. I'll post a separate message about Logic. See also my lengthy post about the meeting details. Cheers, Slau Thanks, C On Nov 14, 2012, at 11:42 AM, Chris Norman wrote: > Sorry, hit the wrong key there... > > There's obviously things you can't discuss, and that's fine, but as you said, > when people don't know the whole truth, they tend to jump to assumptions or > whatever, as we have obviously done with suggesting Avid be brought into the > loop regarding this bug and so on. > > But, now you've said all that, I'll personally try and be more understanding > etc, but please please please, if there's anything we can do, please let us > know. I feel strongly about Pro Tools accessibility, and not because I think > it's my right as a blind user to be able to use Pro Tools, but because I > enjoy working with Pro Tools, and it's a world better than using Garage Band > to record with. Maybe if and when logic Accessibility comes along, I'll feel > different, Logic certainly looks like a nice piece of software, but I'm sure > there'll always be room for PT. > > Anyways, I'll stop rambling now, but stay on it, and remember there's a whole > community willing to help in any way we can. > > Look forward to hearing of your progress, and as always, have fun! > > Take care, > Chris Norman > > > > > On 14 Nov 2012, at 16:27, Slau Halatyn wrote: > >> Members of this list, >> >> I'm writing an open letter to all of you with my concerns and a request. >> I've been working on the issue of Pro Tools accessibility for a very long >> time. I wasn't involved with the initial progress back in OS 9 but I did >> become deeply involved under OS X. I never campaigned for this "position," >> for lack of a better word but I took on the role, firstly, for personal >> reasons, having wanted to have an accessible platform as an audio engineer >> and, secondly, for the sake of many blind musicians who needed a unified >> voice representing the immediate concerns for an accessible Pro Tools >> platform. I've spent enormous sums of money and countless hours on this >> project. I never asked for a dime, mostly because of my personal interest in >> the outcome but also because I never wanted to feel like I was beholden to >> anybody in any way. There were times, sometimes huge swaths of time, that >> often passed with no visible results but I knew it was time well spent >> because of the quality of the relationships I've built and the results we've >> gotten so far. >> >> I now know what it probably feels like to be a politician. Let me assure you >> that it's no stroll in the park. Sometimes, you are not at liberty to >> discuss certain details openly for any number of reasons. I have a new >> appreciation for executive privilege and classified information. That said, >> I've been as open as I could possibly be with both the list and the periodic >> updates on the petition site. I also have a new appreciation for how one >> cannot satisfy the desires of everyone. I can also appreciate that old >> saying about walking a mile in someone's shoes. >> >> Although, as I've said, I've never campaigned for this, I've also fallen >> into this situation by default. I never asked for this and I only agreed to >> it, at least in my mind, because I honestly felt responsible and I also felt >> that I was the right person for the job. >> >> Every so often, it seems, I find the need to defend myself against what I >> essentially find to be restlessness on the part of some people. I don't take >> it personally because I understand that it comes from a frustration with the >> status quo or, more accurately, a perceived lack of progress. I, too, feel >> frustrated some of the time and I share many of the concerns of others on >> this list. I agree with many ideas and I categorically disagree with other >> ideas or at least their implementation and timing. I realize that, when I >> happen to disagree with an approach, I probably lose the confidence of those >> who see things differently. That's OK. As I said earlier, I accept the fact >> that I can't satisfy everybody's wishes—it's impossible. What I do feel that >> I have is the support of the majority of our community and I do appreciate >> that. >> >> As I stated earlier, I feel like a politician and I don't particularly enjoy >> it. My commitment to the issue of Pro Tools accessibility and to this >> community are as follows: >> >> I will continue my relationship with several key individuals at Avid in the >> interest of ensuring a future for Pro Tools accessibility. There are a >> couple of things we're waiting for at the moment that will determine how I >> feel we should proceed. Pending that initial outcome, I will make a perso
Re: some more details about the meeting and your support
Hey Gord, You certainly have firsthand knowledge of what it's like. I, too, we all, are hoping for Logic accessibility as well. That's the subject of another post which I will make when I have a chance. See my lengthy post elsewhere for more info on the meeting itself. Cheers, Slau On Nov 14, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Gordon Kent wrote: > Hi Salu: > Believe me, I understand your position fully. I have had a similar > relationship with Cakewalk for around 15 years now. Through meetings in > person at their office in Boston, as well as a lot of work on the beta team, > I feel I’ve been able to accomplish quite a bit. Mike Mandel has also > attended these meetings. I think companies like this like to deal with as > few folks as possible with matters like this, and you are the obvious person > for working with avid and pro tools. I personally would not have a problem > contributing financially to your efforts. It is much more expensive to fly > to LA and stay out there than it is for me to take a one day junket to > Boston. And, there has been a significant period of time where Cakewalk has > really not been able to devote any real time to accessibility issues when > they decided to go in a new direction with their Sonar X products. Even > companies like Reaper, who started with all good intentions, have not been > able to solve some issues, and the person who has written the access module > is Russian and very hard to get in touch with. I sincerely was hoping that > Apple would come through with logic. > > Gord > > From: Chris Norman > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:38 AM > To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: some more details about the meeting and your support > > Well, let me start out by saying that I for one am extremely greatful for > what you've managed to achieve so far. As I've previously stated, I don't > know much really, other than what me and my guitar can do, and even then, I'm > making it up 90% of the time! So, I am personally 100% behind you. > > I suspected there was some kind of secrecy surrounding what you and Avid were > doing, and although personally I believe that almost all information should > be freely available etc, there's obviously things that you can't discuss > > Take care, > Chris Norman > > > > > On 14 Nov 2012, at 16:27, Slau Halatyn wrote: > >> Members of this list, >> >> I'm writing an open letter to all of you with my concerns and a request. >> I've been working on the issue of Pro Tools accessibility for a very long >> time. I wasn't involved with the initial progress back in OS 9 but I did >> become deeply involved under OS X. I never campaigned for this "position," >> for lack of a better word but I took on the role, firstly, for personal >> reasons, having wanted to have an accessible platform as an audio engineer >> and, secondly, for the sake of many blind musicians who needed a unified >> voice representing the immediate concerns for an accessible Pro Tools >> platform. I've spent enormous sums of money and countless hours on this >> project. I never asked for a dime, mostly because of my personal interest in >> the outcome but also because I never wanted to feel like I was beholden to >> anybody in any way. There were times, sometimes huge swaths of time, that >> often passed with no visible results but I knew it was time well spent >> because of the quality of the relationships I've built and the results we've >> gotten so far. >> >> I now know what it probably feels like to be a politician. Let me assure you >> that it's no stroll in the park. Sometimes, you are not at liberty to >> discuss certain details openly for any number of reasons. I have a new >> appreciation for executive privilege and classified information. That said, >> I've been as open as I could possibly be with both the list and the periodic >> updates on the petition site. I also have a new appreciation for how one >> cannot satisfy the desires of everyone. I can also appreciate that old >> saying about walking a mile in someone's shoes. >> >> Although, as I've said, I've never campaigned for this, I've also fallen >> into this situation by default. I never asked for this and I only agreed to >> it, at least in my mind, because I honestly felt responsible and I also felt >> that I was the right person for the job. >> >> Every so often, it seems, I find the need to defend myself against what I >> essentially find to be restlessness on the part of some people. I don't take >> it personally because I understand that it comes from a frustration with the >> status quo or, more accurately, a perceived lack of progress. I, too, feel >> frustrated some of the time and I share many of the concerns of others on >> this list. I agree with many ideas and I categorically disagree with other >> ideas or at least their implementation and timing. I realize that, when I >> happen to disagree with an approach, I prob
details about my meeting with Avid on October 25
As some of you might recall, David Gibbons, the person who was truly to thank for finally making the work of accessibility happen at Digidesign, left the company a couple of years ago. He was and continues to be a great source of support for the cause of making Pro Tools more accessible. The reigns within Avid were handed to Bobby Lombardi. Bobby was present at the meeting where we saw the first results of the programming work done for VoiceOver. Bobby, in fact, was the first and only person of those who attended that meeting to respond to my follow up email thanking those in attendance. Unfortunately, Bobby took over at a time when Avid began to slash their workforce. Massive layoffs commenced and Avid underwent severe cutbacks. During this time, my limited contact with Bobby made one thing clear: Avid was not going to do anything concerning accessibility when they were scrambling to minimize their bleeding. It was also quite clear that Avid's focus was on their video market. It's widely known that Avid bought Digidesign to ensure a robust audio platform for their video business. With Pro Tools in the service of their Avid video production environment, the music production aspect of Pro Tools was cut back. Hence, the sale of M-Audio (where they lost tens upon tens of millions) and the cutting of Advanced Instrument Research or AIR plug-ins. With resources at a minimum and continuing to shrink, it was communicated to me that things were highly uncertain because of their inner crises. there was never a time when Bobby outrightly said they would not continue the work. He only indicated that they essentially had no development capacity. He suggested that they might be able to gain some headway through something called "hack-a-thon" where engineers essentially spend a weekend to take on a programming project just to throw things on the wall and see what sticks. Sometimes, it's a pet project, a new feature, a shot in the dark. Sometimes it can be an idea put forth by a given team. He suggested that it might be a way to address the immediate issue of the AAX plug-in accessibility. After weeks had gone by and there seemed to be no word, I scheduled the meeting for October. Bobby, as nice of a guy as he is, is not the best at returning emails. He did, however, promptly reply to me and agreed to the meeting. In fact, he invited a couple of other people at Avid including Rich Holmes, another attendee from our last meeting. Bobby did mention in his reply that someone had taken a look at the AAX issue and they didn't see any easy way to fix it. This didn't concern me at the time because I felt it was more important to have the meeting and address the bigger picture first. By the time it got to our meeting there were several more people present including guys from UI design, programming, special projects and partnering. The partnering guy is the one in charge of third-party developers. This was probably going to be an important person at some point along the way. When I got to the meeting, I saw Rich Holmes first. As I mentioned, Rich was at the previous meeting. He was quite impressed with the work Xiang, the intern, had done with VoiceOver support in Pro Tools back in 2009. At that meeting, Rich asked a lot of questions and took a very genuine interest in the subject. He was the one who was concerned with plug-in accessibility when we faced the possibility of not having plug-in accessibility in the initial 8.0.3 release. His concern was, if we didn't have accessible plug-ins, what was the point? In other words, he felt that it was important enough to pursue a solution somehow. I indicated to him that, while plug-ins were certainly critical, it would at least be usable for recording and editing, at least for a start. As it turned out, Xiang figured out a work-around and managed to implement it for the 8.0.4 release. Anyway, that's just a little background about Rich. back to our previously scheduled meeting… I was told that Bobby would probably not be joining us. It wasn't entirely surprising to me because I had learned, quite accidentally, from an interview with bobby on Pensado's Place that bobby was no longer in charge of Pro Tools and that he was moving over to the Sibelius side of things. rich Holmes was the new person in charge of Pro Tools, both hardware and software. Frankly, I was relieved that the new person to take over was a person with whom I've already interfaced and had some background with. The next person to walk in was a bit of a surprise. It was Ed Gray, the person in charge of partnering, like I said, the third-party developer liaison. Ed's been with Digidesign/Avid for about 17 years. Several years ago, Ed started having trouble with his vision due to glaucoma. Two years ago he lost a significant amount of sight and he is now legally blind and uses a white cane. Surprise, surprise, eh? Once the others were in attendance, I went ov
Re: some more details about the meeting and your support
Hi Salu: Believe me, I understand your position fully. I have had a similar relationship with Cakewalk for around 15 years now. Through meetings in person at their office in Boston, as well as a lot of work on the beta team, I feel I’ve been able to accomplish quite a bit. Mike Mandel has also attended these meetings. I think companies like this like to deal with as few folks as possible with matters like this, and you are the obvious person for working with avid and pro tools. I personally would not have a problem contributing financially to your efforts. It is much more expensive to fly to LA and stay out there than it is for me to take a one day junket to Boston. And, there has been a significant period of time where Cakewalk has really not been able to devote any real time to accessibility issues when they decided to go in a new direction with their Sonar X products. Even companies like Reaper, who started with all good intentions, have not been able to solve some issues, and the person who has written the access module is Russian and very hard to get in touch with. I sincerely was hoping that Apple would come through with logic. Gord From: Chris Norman Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:38 AM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: some more details about the meeting and your support Well, let me start out by saying that I for one am extremely greatful for what you've managed to achieve so far. As I've previously stated, I don't know much really, other than what me and my guitar can do, and even then, I'm making it up 90% of the time! So, I am personally 100% behind you. I suspected there was some kind of secrecy surrounding what you and Avid were doing, and although personally I believe that almost all information should be freely available etc, there's obviously things that you can't discuss Take care, Chris Norman On 14 Nov 2012, at 16:27, Slau Halatyn wrote: Members of this list, I'm writing an open letter to all of you with my concerns and a request. I've been working on the issue of Pro Tools accessibility for a very long time. I wasn't involved with the initial progress back in OS 9 but I did become deeply involved under OS X. I never campaigned for this "position," for lack of a better word but I took on the role, firstly, for personal reasons, having wanted to have an accessible platform as an audio engineer and, secondly, for the sake of many blind musicians who needed a unified voice representing the immediate concerns for an accessible Pro Tools platform. I've spent enormous sums of money and countless hours on this project. I never asked for a dime, mostly because of my personal interest in the outcome but also because I never wanted to feel like I was beholden to anybody in any way. There were times, sometimes huge swaths of time, that often passed with no visible results but I knew it was time well spent because of the quality of the relationships I've built and the results we've gotten so far. I now know what it probably feels like to be a politician. Let me assure you that it's no stroll in the park. Sometimes, you are not at liberty to discuss certain details openly for any number of reasons. I have a new appreciation for executive privilege and classified information. That said, I've been as open as I could possibly be with both the list and the periodic updates on the petition site. I also have a new appreciation for how one cannot satisfy the desires of everyone. I can also appreciate that old saying about walking a mile in someone's shoes. Although, as I've said, I've never campaigned for this, I've also fallen into this situation by default. I never asked for this and I only agreed to it, at least in my mind, because I honestly felt responsible and I also felt that I was the right person for the job. Every so often, it seems, I find the need to defend myself against what I essentially find to be restlessness on the part of some people. I don't take it personally because I understand that it comes from a frustration with the status quo or, more accurately, a perceived lack of progress. I, too, feel frustrated some of the time and I share many of the concerns of others on this list. I agree with many ideas and I categorically disagree with other ideas or at least their implementation and timing. I realize that, when I happen to disagree with an approach, I probably lose the confidence of those who see things differently. That's OK. As I said earlier, I accept the fact that I can't satisfy everybody's wishes—it's impossible. What I do feel that I have is the support of the majority of our community and I do appreciate that. As I stated earlier, I feel like a politician and I don't particularly enjoy it. My commitment to the issue of Pro Tools accessibility and to this community are as follows: I will continue my relationship with several key individuals at Avid in the intere
Re: For Slau and others: Fw: Problem with accessibility in Mountain Lion
Hi David, The problem exists across Pro Tools in general. There's really no difference between regular Pro Tools and HD. It's the same software. Certain features only appear under certain conditions but it's the same installer, same code. HTH, Slau On Nov 13, 2012, at 5:43 PM, David Ingram wrote: > Do these problems only exist with the standard version of pro tools and the > os and voice over? Does this also happen with the hd version of pro tools? > What would happen if the hd version of pro tools was used and if mountain > lion was used with voice over. maybe if the hd version of pro tools doesn't > have this problem and it seems that more people are using the version that is > not hd then this should be fixed all across the board if you don't mind me > saying so. I don't want to spend more money on a product that doesn't > properly work with voice over? > - Original Message - From: "Slau Halatyn" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:26 PM > Subject: Re: For Slau and others: Fw: Problem with accessibility in Mountain > Lion > > > Chris, > > Again, Avid is not aware of the issue, it's someone at Apple itself saying > it's a VoiceOver issue. That, however, is irrelevant. Don't even bring up > that point. Just keep coming back with the facts. I've supplied the link > earlier but here it is again: > http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/Pro-Tools-10-3-2-Downloads > This proves that Pro Tools 10.3.2 supports Mountain Lion and they've done the > necessary work. Don't relent. Just keep coming back with it. Yes, we'll all > get canned responses but keep going at it. > > Slau > > On Nov 13, 2012, at 3:17 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: > >> Hello. >> >> I e-mailed Apple Accessibility regarding the issue with the counters, etc. >> not properly reading, as Slau had suggested that all of us do. Below is >> their response. In my humble opinion, though I don't want to be the one to >> shoot the black horse, this is so damn typical of them. I'm so sick of >> always hearing the same templated script: "Oh, it's not our falt. The >> developer needs to work harder." It's never Apple's falt. Maybe I'm just >> real hot as there is another onpgoing accessibility issue totally unrelated >> that they absolutely refuse to cooperate on, but I'm really getting sick and >> tired, I tell you, of them apparently never ever listenning when people like >> us who need accessibility implemented always put the raw meat back on the >> developer. They like thinking they're perfect, and that nothing's ever >> their flaw until proven otherwise. So, that leads me to my question of >> writing this mail: how do we then prove it to them, that in this case, >> they're wrong? I'd trust Slau with this more than I would anyone. If he's >> talked to Avid, and Avid directly says this isn't a P T issue, but more an >> underlying issue of OSX, which based on what I'm hearing elseware, does make >> complete sense, by the way, then I'm gonna be more promed to believe him, >> than someone who's never probably used ProTools a single day of their life. >> >> Sorry for the outburst of frustration. Maybe now I! am the one being >> extremely unfair, but come on! This is ridiculous, I mean let's just be >> realistic here. This is not the first time Apple has refused to help with >> accessibility until we pushed. And who do you think it was back in 2005 >> roughly with OSX 10.4 Tiger, that convinced them to put a screen reader, >> which wound up being Voiceover into the OS directly? Oh sure, there was >> Outspoken before then, and believe me, it worked wonderfully! but, who do >> you think put the fire under their feet to get on the train, if you will? >> That's right! the N? F? B. If it wasn't for them back in the days >> threatenning a lawsuit, now granted, it never came down to that, as Apple >> unwillingly complied, but that's just it, they did it unwillingly, then >> clamed they were committed. I'm not so convinced. >> >> If you wanna know more my reasonnings, this isn't the list for it. Write me >> off list, if you want, and I'll furtyher elaberate. >> >> Anyway, scroll down below my signature, and you'll find their response.Thank >> you kindly, >> >> Thank you kindly. >> Christopher-Mark Gilland. >> Founder of CLG Productions >> >> Blog: >> http://www.clgproductions.org >> >> Podcast: >> http://clgproductions.podhoster.com >> >> E-mail: >> ch...@clgproductions.com >> >> IMessage/Facetime: >> theblindmusic...@att.net >> >> Windows Live Messenger: >> ch...@blindperspectives.net >> >> Twitter: >> @gilland_chris >> >> Facebook: >> http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland >> >> Skype: >> twinklesfriend2007 >> >> Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: >> 704-697-2069 >> >> Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): >> 980-272-8570 >> >> >> - Original Message - From: >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:19 PM >> Sub
Re: some more details about the meeting and your support
Hi Slau No matter what, you are still the man in charge, the boss and I do appriciate everything you have done so far for PT accessibility. The reason for my suggestion earlyer on the other thread was because I think it might help in some way to maybe speed things up a bit if needed. However Slau, I trust your judgment and that is why I won't aproach the PT expert guys on my own, if there's someone who must do it, it must be you when ever you think the time is right. I'm sorry for sometimes disaggreeing with you, I'm just so passionit about this and it sometimes feals as if we're standing still and more gets broken than what gets improved or fixed. Taking nothing away from the guys doing the PT and music thing as a hobby, much like yourself, sound and music is my life and eventually PT will be my bread and butter. Currently my bread and butter is not exclusively PT because I'm involved in other ventures and because of the industry I can't venture in to the recording world full time at the moment however I have strong future plans to do so. We are already very far with PT accessibility but it is important that accessibility keeps improving if not at least staying the same in future PT versions. As said earlyer the entire PT comunity is currently unsure about the future especially with what's going to happen in PT11 with older hardware and then there's also 3rd party plug manufacturers having to adopt the aax standard. Totally breaking something in a new version of PT for example aax not working when PT10 launched is simply unexceptable and very crucial to someone who use PT to pay the bills. Anyway enough for now, Slau, I'm 100% behind you and your dissisions, hope there's no hard feelings. Chris Norman wrote: > Sorry, hit the wrong key there... > > There's obviously things you can't discuss, and that's fine, but as you said, > when people don't know the whole truth, they tend to jump to assumptions or > whatever, as we have obviously done with suggesting Avid be brought into the > loop regarding this bug and so on. > > But, now you've said all that, I'll personally try and be more understanding > etc, but please please please, if there's anything we can do, please let us > know. I feel strongly about Pro Tools accessibility, and not because I think > it's my right as a blind user to be able to use Pro Tools, but because I > enjoy working with Pro Tools, and it's a world better than using Garage Band > to record with. Maybe if and when logic Accessibility comes along, I'll feel > different, Logic certainly looks like a nice piece of software, but I'm sure > there'll always be room for PT. > > Anyways, I'll stop rambling now, but stay on it, and remember there's a whole > community willing to help in any way we can. > > Look forward to hearing of your progress, and as always, have fun! > > Take care, > Chris Norman > > > > > On 14 Nov 2012, at 16:27, Slau Halatyn wrote: > > > Members of this list, > > > > I'm writing an open letter to all of you with my concerns and a request. > > I've been working on the issue of Pro Tools accessibility for a very long > > time. I wasn't involved with the initial progress back in OS 9 but I did > > become deeply involved under OS X. I never campaigned for this "position," > > for lack of a better word but I took on the role, firstly, for personal > > reasons, having wanted to have an accessible platform as an audio engineer > > and, secondly, for the sake of many blind musicians who needed a unified > > voice representing the immediate concerns for an accessible Pro Tools > > platform. I've spent enormous sums of money and countless hours on this > > project. I never asked for a dime, mostly because of my personal interest > > in the outcome but also because I never wanted to feel like I was beholden > > to anybody in any way. There were times, sometimes huge swaths of time, > > that often passed with no visible results but I knew it was time well spent > > because of the quality of the relationships I've built and the results > > we've gotten so far. > > > > I now know what it probably feels like to be a politician. Let me assure > > you that it's no stroll in the park. Sometimes, you are not at liberty to > > discuss certain details openly for any number of reasons. I have a new > > appreciation for executive privilege and classified information. That said, > > I've been as open as I could possibly be with both the list and the > > periodic updates on the petition site. I also have a new appreciation for > > how one cannot satisfy the desires of everyone. I can also appreciate that > > old saying about walking a mile in someone's shoes. > > > > Although, as I've said, I've never campaigned for this, I've also fallen > > into this situation by default. I never asked for this and I only agreed to > > it, at least in my mind, because I honestly felt responsible and I also > > felt that I was the right person for the job. > > > > Every so o
Re: Question about monitoring vocals
I wouldn't record with Autotune running as it eats up processor and can throw off your vocal while you're singing. But your COmpressor and a verb is fine. Kevin On Nov 14, 2012, at 11:13 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: > Is there a reason why I get a lotta ladency when I insert auto-Tune? I'm > trying to lean more away from that plugin as much as I can, but sometimes, I > do still use it on rare occasions. > > Thank you kindly, > > Christopher-Mark Gilland. > Founder of CLG Productions > > Blog: > http://www.clgproductions.org > > Podcast: > http://clgproductions.podhoster.com > > E-mail: > ch...@clgproductions.com > > IMessage/Facetime: > theblindmusic...@att.net > > Windows Live Messenger: > ch...@blindperspectives.net > > Twitter: > @gilland_chris > > Facebook: > http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland > > Skype: > twinklesfriend2007 > > Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: > 704-697-2069 > > Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): > 980-272-8570 > > > - Original Message - From: "Kevin Reeves" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: Question about monitoring vocals > > > I just input at around -10, and insert the comp while recording, which will > crank up the output gain to a desirable level. It's just a matter of > preference. I prefer recording with some effects on to help the process > along.
Re: Question about monitoring vocals
Not sure how full on AutoTune works, as I only use AutoTune Evo, because it was all I could afford at the time, but I'm guessing there's something in there that's trying to preview audio, to give you a better result? I know AutoTune Evo doesn't give you latency, especially, and never forget this one, if you set the buffer size in Setup -> Playback engine to something low. If you're using affects, or software instruments and the like, 128 seems to be pretty optimum, if you're using only a couple of tracks, with no affects, 32 or 64 will get you very little latency. Also, could be the computer you're using. I'm using a MacBook Pro here, one of the 2010 models I think, and that handles Pro Tools fine, until the sessions start to get large. If you're using a machine with limited RAM and processing power, that'll cause latency. Finally, I'm not sure what sound card you're using, but if it's USB, I think that gives you latency too. I'm using and old MAudio Project Mix I/O, which is a firewire device, and I am getting amazing results with that, plugged into an Allen and Heath Zed-R14 or something, also running that one over USB, so a total of 3 audio devices which I can bring to bear on a project. HTH, Take care, Chris Norman On 14 Nov 2012, at 16:13, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: > Is there a reason why I get a lotta ladency when I insert auto-Tune? I'm > trying to lean more away from that plugin as much as I can, but sometimes, I > do still use it on rare occasions. > > Thank you kindly, > > Christopher-Mark Gilland. > Founder of CLG Productions > > Blog: > http://www.clgproductions.org > > Podcast: > http://clgproductions.podhoster.com > > E-mail: > ch...@clgproductions.com > > IMessage/Facetime: > theblindmusic...@att.net > > Windows Live Messenger: > ch...@blindperspectives.net > > Twitter: > @gilland_chris > > Facebook: > http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland > > Skype: > twinklesfriend2007 > > Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: > 704-697-2069 > > Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): > 980-272-8570 > > > - Original Message - From: "Kevin Reeves" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: Question about monitoring vocals > > > I just input at around -10, and insert the comp while recording, which will > crank up the output gain to a desirable level. It's just a matter of > preference. I prefer recording with some effects on to help the process > along.
Re: some more details about the meeting and your support
Sorry, hit the wrong key there... There's obviously things you can't discuss, and that's fine, but as you said, when people don't know the whole truth, they tend to jump to assumptions or whatever, as we have obviously done with suggesting Avid be brought into the loop regarding this bug and so on. But, now you've said all that, I'll personally try and be more understanding etc, but please please please, if there's anything we can do, please let us know. I feel strongly about Pro Tools accessibility, and not because I think it's my right as a blind user to be able to use Pro Tools, but because I enjoy working with Pro Tools, and it's a world better than using Garage Band to record with. Maybe if and when logic Accessibility comes along, I'll feel different, Logic certainly looks like a nice piece of software, but I'm sure there'll always be room for PT. Anyways, I'll stop rambling now, but stay on it, and remember there's a whole community willing to help in any way we can. Look forward to hearing of your progress, and as always, have fun! Take care, Chris Norman On 14 Nov 2012, at 16:27, Slau Halatyn wrote: > Members of this list, > > I'm writing an open letter to all of you with my concerns and a request. I've > been working on the issue of Pro Tools accessibility for a very long time. I > wasn't involved with the initial progress back in OS 9 but I did become > deeply involved under OS X. I never campaigned for this "position," for lack > of a better word but I took on the role, firstly, for personal reasons, > having wanted to have an accessible platform as an audio engineer and, > secondly, for the sake of many blind musicians who needed a unified voice > representing the immediate concerns for an accessible Pro Tools platform. > I've spent enormous sums of money and countless hours on this project. I > never asked for a dime, mostly because of my personal interest in the outcome > but also because I never wanted to feel like I was beholden to anybody in any > way. There were times, sometimes huge swaths of time, that often passed with > no visible results but I knew it was time well spent because of the quality > of the relationships I've built and the results we've gotten so far. > > I now know what it probably feels like to be a politician. Let me assure you > that it's no stroll in the park. Sometimes, you are not at liberty to discuss > certain details openly for any number of reasons. I have a new appreciation > for executive privilege and classified information. That said, I've been as > open as I could possibly be with both the list and the periodic updates on > the petition site. I also have a new appreciation for how one cannot satisfy > the desires of everyone. I can also appreciate that old saying about walking > a mile in someone's shoes. > > Although, as I've said, I've never campaigned for this, I've also fallen into > this situation by default. I never asked for this and I only agreed to it, at > least in my mind, because I honestly felt responsible and I also felt that I > was the right person for the job. > > Every so often, it seems, I find the need to defend myself against what I > essentially find to be restlessness on the part of some people. I don't take > it personally because I understand that it comes from a frustration with the > status quo or, more accurately, a perceived lack of progress. I, too, feel > frustrated some of the time and I share many of the concerns of others on > this list. I agree with many ideas and I categorically disagree with other > ideas or at least their implementation and timing. I realize that, when I > happen to disagree with an approach, I probably lose the confidence of those > who see things differently. That's OK. As I said earlier, I accept the fact > that I can't satisfy everybody's wishes—it's impossible. What I do feel that > I have is the support of the majority of our community and I do appreciate > that. > > As I stated earlier, I feel like a politician and I don't particularly enjoy > it. My commitment to the issue of Pro Tools accessibility and to this > community are as follows: > > I will continue my relationship with several key individuals at Avid in the > interest of ensuring a future for Pro Tools accessibility. There are a couple > of things we're waiting for at the moment that will determine how I feel we > should proceed. Pending that initial outcome, I will make a personal decision > whether to continue the work I've been doing. Even if the outcome is > favorable, I'm not sure that I'll take on any responsibility other than beta > testing, as I've done on and off over the years. If the outcome is less > favorable, I'll offer my suggestions for a path toward a goal but I won't > take on any responsibilities unless an explicit majority of this community > give me mandate to move forward with a plan. To put a timeframe on it, > essentially, I'll probably h
Re: some more details about the meeting and your support
Well, let me start out by saying that I for one am extremely greatful for what you've managed to achieve so far. As I've previously stated, I don't know much really, other than what me and my guitar can do, and even then, I'm making it up 90% of the time! So, I am personally 100% behind you. I suspected there was some kind of secrecy surrounding what you and Avid were doing, and although personally I believe that almost all information should be freely available etc, there's obviously things that you can't discuss Take care, Chris Norman On 14 Nov 2012, at 16:27, Slau Halatyn wrote: > Members of this list, > > I'm writing an open letter to all of you with my concerns and a request. I've > been working on the issue of Pro Tools accessibility for a very long time. I > wasn't involved with the initial progress back in OS 9 but I did become > deeply involved under OS X. I never campaigned for this "position," for lack > of a better word but I took on the role, firstly, for personal reasons, > having wanted to have an accessible platform as an audio engineer and, > secondly, for the sake of many blind musicians who needed a unified voice > representing the immediate concerns for an accessible Pro Tools platform. > I've spent enormous sums of money and countless hours on this project. I > never asked for a dime, mostly because of my personal interest in the outcome > but also because I never wanted to feel like I was beholden to anybody in any > way. There were times, sometimes huge swaths of time, that often passed with > no visible results but I knew it was time well spent because of the quality > of the relationships I've built and the results we've gotten so far. > > I now know what it probably feels like to be a politician. Let me assure you > that it's no stroll in the park. Sometimes, you are not at liberty to discuss > certain details openly for any number of reasons. I have a new appreciation > for executive privilege and classified information. That said, I've been as > open as I could possibly be with both the list and the periodic updates on > the petition site. I also have a new appreciation for how one cannot satisfy > the desires of everyone. I can also appreciate that old saying about walking > a mile in someone's shoes. > > Although, as I've said, I've never campaigned for this, I've also fallen into > this situation by default. I never asked for this and I only agreed to it, at > least in my mind, because I honestly felt responsible and I also felt that I > was the right person for the job. > > Every so often, it seems, I find the need to defend myself against what I > essentially find to be restlessness on the part of some people. I don't take > it personally because I understand that it comes from a frustration with the > status quo or, more accurately, a perceived lack of progress. I, too, feel > frustrated some of the time and I share many of the concerns of others on > this list. I agree with many ideas and I categorically disagree with other > ideas or at least their implementation and timing. I realize that, when I > happen to disagree with an approach, I probably lose the confidence of those > who see things differently. That's OK. As I said earlier, I accept the fact > that I can't satisfy everybody's wishes—it's impossible. What I do feel that > I have is the support of the majority of our community and I do appreciate > that. > > As I stated earlier, I feel like a politician and I don't particularly enjoy > it. My commitment to the issue of Pro Tools accessibility and to this > community are as follows: > > I will continue my relationship with several key individuals at Avid in the > interest of ensuring a future for Pro Tools accessibility. There are a couple > of things we're waiting for at the moment that will determine how I feel we > should proceed. Pending that initial outcome, I will make a personal decision > whether to continue the work I've been doing. Even if the outcome is > favorable, I'm not sure that I'll take on any responsibility other than beta > testing, as I've done on and off over the years. If the outcome is less > favorable, I'll offer my suggestions for a path toward a goal but I won't > take on any responsibilities unless an explicit majority of this community > give me mandate to move forward with a plan. To put a timeframe on it, > essentially, I'll probably have some feeling for which way this will likely > go in a few days, maybe a week. > > In a separate email, I will discuss some more details of my meeting at Avid. > Please be aware that I won't engage in a debate on the merits of any given > approach. I'm tired of defending and explaining things. Politicians usually > have a staff to handle such things. Please don't occupy my bandwidth with a > whole bunch of suggestions that will require loads of my time to respond to. > This is a public forum and everybody's entitled to express th
Re: an update regarding my meeting with Avid
regardless of whether it does no harm, it does no good. Please, Nickus, hold your horses, OK? We all want this to happen. Slau On Nov 14, 2012, at 11:01 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote: > Slau, as I said I don't think it can do any harm to extend a hand of > friendship to them now. Then they at least know of us and know that we > struggle with some accessibility things. They might just mention us or > something about accessibility to someone at Avid over a lunch meeting > or in passing. This might make Avid realise that the main streem > comunity is aware of us and that they are actually supporting us. In > the future if we need their help, we can still outright ask if they > will be able to help us with perswasive power at Avid, I'm sure they > won't just do it out of their own but they will be willing to help > where they can if asked. > > Slau Halatyn wrote: >> Guys, >> >> Your enthusiasm is great and everybody wants this to happen. Public support >> is a good thing but there's a time and a place to call upon it. It's a card >> you get to play a very limited number of times and now is not the time. It >> might be in the future. I hope not, of course, but we're hopeful that it >> won't be required. I'm not going to belabor the point. Please be patient. >> >> best, >> >> Slau >> >> On Nov 14, 2012, at 6:45 AM, Chris Norman wrote: >> >>> Be it a Pro Tools expert group or the women's institute, in my >>> experience, the more people who know about a thing, even if it >>> directly affects them or not, they still take an interest, and even if >>> 2 people who aren't blind PT users mention the word accessibility in >>> earshot of Avid, that's two more than before. >>> >>> On 14/11/2012, Nickus de Vos wrote: Hi guys I personally think getting some mainstreem publicity for our cause and getting the message out there of a blind PT using community can only be a good thing and if anything can be an advantage. Slau in the past I mentioned to you that on behalf of us you should connect and build a relationship with the guys of the pro tools expert blog but back then you said to me that it's not a good idea because we already have direct contact with Avid. I still think it's a good idea to connect with them and let them know of our existance. I'm not saying ask them to start putting pressure on Avid or anything, but those guys are really tight with some of the guys working at Avid so if we need anything in the future, they might be able to help with a little perswasive power. No one is quite sure of the PT landscape in the future, the entire mainstreem comunity is unsure of certain things and we are even more so with aaax accessibility etc. I think if only for the sake of them knowing about us, it's still a good idea to extend a friendly hand. Brian Casey wrote: > Haha, it was rather public and very much on the record which caught me off > gard for one! Good show though!! > > Brian > > On 11/11/2012, at 3:06 PM, "Slau Halatyn" wrote: > >> Hi Brian, >> >> I did happen to catch those mentions on Pensado's Place but I didn't >> expect that to go down exactly in that manner. At any rate, it's all >> good in the end and perhaps even better. More to come :) >> >> Slau >> >> >> On Nov 11, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Brian Casey wrote: >> >>> Slau, great stuff, i also noticed two very strong supportive mentions >>> of the meeting on dave pensados youtube show, i'm sure your more than >>> aware of that very public and intentional shout out! >>> >>> Everything you've been telling us about the merrits of your approach >>> seems to be justified completely, well done, hopefully these meetings >>> can consolidate a more official and future proof state of affairs. >>> Brian >>> >>> On 10/11/2012, at 11:07 PM, "Slau Halatyn" >>> wrote: >>> Forgive the delay but I wanted to update the list on my meeting with Avid. I'll offer a more detailed explanation in a few days. For now, let me say that the meeting went well and was well attended. Among the many changes at Avid, there have been a few changes to key people in charge of Pro Tools. I believe, in this case, it happens to work in our favor. Again, I'll explain in more detail in a few days. For now, I'm waiting for a couple of things to be coordinated before I go into detail about the meeting and what we might expect in the near future. On a side note, I was scheduled to come back from san Francisco on Sunday, October 28. Unfortunately, because of Hurricane Sandy, my flight was cancelled and thus I was forced to stay in San Francisco an extra 4 days. While there are worse places to be stuck, there are also cheaper places to be stuck, for s
some more details about the meeting and your support
Members of this list, I'm writing an open letter to all of you with my concerns and a request. I've been working on the issue of Pro Tools accessibility for a very long time. I wasn't involved with the initial progress back in OS 9 but I did become deeply involved under OS X. I never campaigned for this "position," for lack of a better word but I took on the role, firstly, for personal reasons, having wanted to have an accessible platform as an audio engineer and, secondly, for the sake of many blind musicians who needed a unified voice representing the immediate concerns for an accessible Pro Tools platform. I've spent enormous sums of money and countless hours on this project. I never asked for a dime, mostly because of my personal interest in the outcome but also because I never wanted to feel like I was beholden to anybody in any way. There were times, sometimes huge swaths of time, that often passed with no visible results but I knew it was time well spent because of the quality of the relationships I've built and the results we've gotten so far. I now know what it probably feels like to be a politician. Let me assure you that it's no stroll in the park. Sometimes, you are not at liberty to discuss certain details openly for any number of reasons. I have a new appreciation for executive privilege and classified information. That said, I've been as open as I could possibly be with both the list and the periodic updates on the petition site. I also have a new appreciation for how one cannot satisfy the desires of everyone. I can also appreciate that old saying about walking a mile in someone's shoes. Although, as I've said, I've never campaigned for this, I've also fallen into this situation by default. I never asked for this and I only agreed to it, at least in my mind, because I honestly felt responsible and I also felt that I was the right person for the job. Every so often, it seems, I find the need to defend myself against what I essentially find to be restlessness on the part of some people. I don't take it personally because I understand that it comes from a frustration with the status quo or, more accurately, a perceived lack of progress. I, too, feel frustrated some of the time and I share many of the concerns of others on this list. I agree with many ideas and I categorically disagree with other ideas or at least their implementation and timing. I realize that, when I happen to disagree with an approach, I probably lose the confidence of those who see things differently. That's OK. As I said earlier, I accept the fact that I can't satisfy everybody's wishes—it's impossible. What I do feel that I have is the support of the majority of our community and I do appreciate that. As I stated earlier, I feel like a politician and I don't particularly enjoy it. My commitment to the issue of Pro Tools accessibility and to this community are as follows: I will continue my relationship with several key individuals at Avid in the interest of ensuring a future for Pro Tools accessibility. There are a couple of things we're waiting for at the moment that will determine how I feel we should proceed. Pending that initial outcome, I will make a personal decision whether to continue the work I've been doing. Even if the outcome is favorable, I'm not sure that I'll take on any responsibility other than beta testing, as I've done on and off over the years. If the outcome is less favorable, I'll offer my suggestions for a path toward a goal but I won't take on any responsibilities unless an explicit majority of this community give me mandate to move forward with a plan. To put a timeframe on it, essentially, I'll probably have some feeling for which way this will likely go in a few days, maybe a week. In a separate email, I will discuss some more details of my meeting at Avid. Please be aware that I won't engage in a debate on the merits of any given approach. I'm tired of defending and explaining things. Politicians usually have a staff to handle such things. Please don't occupy my bandwidth with a whole bunch of suggestions that will require loads of my time to respond to. This is a public forum and everybody's entitled to express themselves but, just as I am required not to take things personally, don't take it personally if I don't engage in a debate about the merits of a particular approach. I believe what I'm doing is right and that, every step of the way, I've made good choices. I have a short session in about a half hour so the email about the meeting will follow in the afternoon. Thanks, Slau
Re: Question about monitoring vocals
And, that's why I don't do it, frankly. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @gilland_chris Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 - Original Message - From: "Kevin Reeves" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:42 AM Subject: Re: Question about monitoring vocals I never use direct monitoring because I like having the PT effects running during my recording sessions. The latency isn't really that bad, it's just part of the process. Plus, if I were to use direct monitoring, I lose out on any panning I've done in PT to see how other tracks I'm recording are sitting with everything else. You also miss out on the ability to tell if a track is record enabled. I actually think that direct monitoring is a hindrance. I hired an engineer 3 years ago who used direct monitoring and because of this, wasn't able to pick out some major problems with what was going into pro tools until it was too late. Let's just say it was a $4000 lesson learned. Kevin=
Re: passed along to engineering
That doesn't seem like a canned response to me... nice one! Scott On 11/14/12, John Abreu wrote: > That's something at least > > Sent from my iOS device > > On 2012-11-14, at 10:25 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote: > >> Finally, this morning I got the following message from Apple: >> We will pass this along to our engineering department. Please provide >> exact step by >> step instructions on how to reproduce these issues. Please be as specific >> as possible as >> the people testing this may not be familiar with Pro tools. >> Please also be aware that if an issue is found with Voiceover when in use >> with Pro tools, >> we cannot comment on when this may be resolved. This may also still >> require a change in code on Avids part. >> >> Apple Accessibility >> >> Please keep responding until you get the same response or something to >> that effect. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Slau >> >
Re: Question about monitoring vocals
Is there a reason why I get a lotta ladency when I insert auto-Tune? I'm trying to lean more away from that plugin as much as I can, but sometimes, I do still use it on rare occasions. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @gilland_chris Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 - Original Message - From: "Kevin Reeves" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Question about monitoring vocals I just input at around -10, and insert the comp while recording, which will crank up the output gain to a desirable level. It's just a matter of preference. I prefer recording with some effects on to help the process along.
Re: an update regarding my meeting with Avid
Slau, as I said I don't think it can do any harm to extend a hand of friendship to them now. Then they at least know of us and know that we struggle with some accessibility things. They might just mention us or something about accessibility to someone at Avid over a lunch meeting or in passing. This might make Avid realise that the main streem comunity is aware of us and that they are actually supporting us. In the future if we need their help, we can still outright ask if they will be able to help us with perswasive power at Avid, I'm sure they won't just do it out of their own but they will be willing to help where they can if asked. Slau Halatyn wrote: > Guys, > > Your enthusiasm is great and everybody wants this to happen. Public support > is a good thing but there's a time and a place to call upon it. It's a card > you get to play a very limited number of times and now is not the time. It > might be in the future. I hope not, of course, but we're hopeful that it > won't be required. I'm not going to belabor the point. Please be patient. > > best, > > Slau > > On Nov 14, 2012, at 6:45 AM, Chris Norman wrote: > > > Be it a Pro Tools expert group or the women's institute, in my > > experience, the more people who know about a thing, even if it > > directly affects them or not, they still take an interest, and even if > > 2 people who aren't blind PT users mention the word accessibility in > > earshot of Avid, that's two more than before. > > > > On 14/11/2012, Nickus de Vos wrote: > >> Hi guys > >> I personally think getting some mainstreem publicity for our cause and > >> getting the message out there of a blind PT using community can only > >> be a good thing and if anything can be an advantage. > >> Slau in the past I mentioned to you that on behalf of us you should > >> connect and build a relationship with the guys of the pro tools expert > >> blog but back then you said to me that it's not a good idea because we > >> already have direct contact with Avid. I still think it's a good idea > >> to connect with them and let them know of our existance. I'm not > >> saying ask them to start putting pressure on Avid or anything, but > >> those guys are really tight with some of the guys working at Avid so > >> if we need anything in the future, they might be able to help with a > >> little perswasive power. No one is quite sure of the PT landscape in > >> the future, the entire mainstreem comunity is unsure of certain things > >> and we are even more so with aaax accessibility etc. I think if only > >> for the sake of them knowing about us, it's still a good idea to > >> extend a friendly hand. > >> > >> Brian Casey wrote: > >>> Haha, it was rather public and very much on the record which caught me off > >>> gard for one! Good show though!! > >>> > >>> Brian > >>> > >>> On 11/11/2012, at 3:06 PM, "Slau Halatyn" wrote: > >>> > Hi Brian, > > I did happen to catch those mentions on Pensado's Place but I didn't > expect that to go down exactly in that manner. At any rate, it's all > good in the end and perhaps even better. More to come :) > > Slau > > > On Nov 11, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Brian Casey wrote: > > > Slau, great stuff, i also noticed two very strong supportive mentions > > of the meeting on dave pensados youtube show, i'm sure your more than > > aware of that very public and intentional shout out! > > > > Everything you've been telling us about the merrits of your approach > > seems to be justified completely, well done, hopefully these meetings > > can consolidate a more official and future proof state of affairs. > > Brian > > > > On 10/11/2012, at 11:07 PM, "Slau Halatyn" > > wrote: > > > >> Forgive the delay but I wanted to update the list on my meeting with > >> Avid. I'll offer a more detailed explanation in a few days. For now, > >> let me say that the meeting went well and was well attended. Among the > >> many changes at Avid, there have been a few changes to key people in > >> charge of Pro Tools. I believe, in this case, it happens to work in > >> our favor. Again, I'll explain in more detail in a few days. For now, > >> I'm waiting for a couple of things to be coordinated before I go into > >> detail about the meeting and what we might expect in the near future. > >> > >> On a side note, I was scheduled to come back from san Francisco on > >> Sunday, October 28. Unfortunately, because of Hurricane Sandy, my > >> flight was cancelled and thus I was forced to stay in San Francisco an > >> extra 4 days. While there are worse places to be stuck, there are also > >> cheaper places to be stuck, for sure. I'd like to think it was money > >> well spent. Anyway, I've been playing catch-up since then. Things are > >> getting back to normal so give me a few more days and I'll share > >> more. > >> > >> Best, > >> >
Re: passed along to engineering
That's something at least Sent from my iOS device On 2012-11-14, at 10:25 AM, Slau Halatyn wrote: > Finally, this morning I got the following message from Apple: > We will pass this along to our engineering department. Please provide exact > step by > step instructions on how to reproduce these issues. Please be as specific as > possible as > the people testing this may not be familiar with Pro tools. > Please also be aware that if an issue is found with Voiceover when in use > with Pro tools, > we cannot comment on when this may be resolved. This may also still require a > change in code on Avids part. > > Apple Accessibility > > Please keep responding until you get the same response or something to that > effect. > > Thanks, > > Slau >
Re: an update regarding my meeting with Avid
Guys, Your enthusiasm is great and everybody wants this to happen. Public support is a good thing but there's a time and a place to call upon it. It's a card you get to play a very limited number of times and now is not the time. It might be in the future. I hope not, of course, but we're hopeful that it won't be required. I'm not going to belabor the point. Please be patient. best, Slau On Nov 14, 2012, at 6:45 AM, Chris Norman wrote: > Be it a Pro Tools expert group or the women's institute, in my > experience, the more people who know about a thing, even if it > directly affects them or not, they still take an interest, and even if > 2 people who aren't blind PT users mention the word accessibility in > earshot of Avid, that's two more than before. > > On 14/11/2012, Nickus de Vos wrote: >> Hi guys >> I personally think getting some mainstreem publicity for our cause and >> getting the message out there of a blind PT using community can only >> be a good thing and if anything can be an advantage. >> Slau in the past I mentioned to you that on behalf of us you should >> connect and build a relationship with the guys of the pro tools expert >> blog but back then you said to me that it's not a good idea because we >> already have direct contact with Avid. I still think it's a good idea >> to connect with them and let them know of our existance. I'm not >> saying ask them to start putting pressure on Avid or anything, but >> those guys are really tight with some of the guys working at Avid so >> if we need anything in the future, they might be able to help with a >> little perswasive power. No one is quite sure of the PT landscape in >> the future, the entire mainstreem comunity is unsure of certain things >> and we are even more so with aaax accessibility etc. I think if only >> for the sake of them knowing about us, it's still a good idea to >> extend a friendly hand. >> >> Brian Casey wrote: >>> Haha, it was rather public and very much on the record which caught me off >>> gard for one! Good show though!! >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> On 11/11/2012, at 3:06 PM, "Slau Halatyn" wrote: >>> Hi Brian, I did happen to catch those mentions on Pensado's Place but I didn't expect that to go down exactly in that manner. At any rate, it's all good in the end and perhaps even better. More to come :) Slau On Nov 11, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Brian Casey wrote: > Slau, great stuff, i also noticed two very strong supportive mentions > of the meeting on dave pensados youtube show, i'm sure your more than > aware of that very public and intentional shout out! > > Everything you've been telling us about the merrits of your approach > seems to be justified completely, well done, hopefully these meetings > can consolidate a more official and future proof state of affairs. > Brian > > On 10/11/2012, at 11:07 PM, "Slau Halatyn" > wrote: > >> Forgive the delay but I wanted to update the list on my meeting with >> Avid. I'll offer a more detailed explanation in a few days. For now, >> let me say that the meeting went well and was well attended. Among the >> many changes at Avid, there have been a few changes to key people in >> charge of Pro Tools. I believe, in this case, it happens to work in >> our favor. Again, I'll explain in more detail in a few days. For now, >> I'm waiting for a couple of things to be coordinated before I go into >> detail about the meeting and what we might expect in the near future. >> >> On a side note, I was scheduled to come back from san Francisco on >> Sunday, October 28. Unfortunately, because of Hurricane Sandy, my >> flight was cancelled and thus I was forced to stay in San Francisco an >> extra 4 days. While there are worse places to be stuck, there are also >> cheaper places to be stuck, for sure. I'd like to think it was money >> well spent. Anyway, I've been playing catch-up since then. Things are >> getting back to normal so give me a few more days and I'll share >> more. >> >> Best, >> >> Slau >> >> > > > -- > Take care, > > Chris Norman. > >
passed along to engineering
Finally, this morning I got the following message from Apple: We will pass this along to our engineering department. Please provide exact step by step instructions on how to reproduce these issues. Please be as specific as possible as the people testing this may not be familiar with Pro tools. Please also be aware that if an issue is found with Voiceover when in use with Pro tools, we cannot comment on when this may be resolved. This may also still require a change in code on Avids part. Apple Accessibility Please keep responding until you get the same response or something to that effect. Thanks, Slau
Re: Apple's initial response
The problem is that there are a bunch of out-of-date pages that people mistakenly view. The link I sent shows 10.8 as being supported. Just come back with the link I supplied. best, Slau On Nov 14, 2012, at 8:08 AM, Stefan Albertshauser wrote: > Hello Slau, > > Now I found the time to visit the site, you mentioned. I found something > confusing: > If I click the link mentioned below and search for a heading "for Pro Tools > 10 and Mountain Lion" or so and read along, I can click the following link > for more information: > http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/compatibility/Avid-Software-and-Mac-OS-X-10-8 > there is an article dated from the 27th of september. On the other hand, > Apple accessibility sent me the following mail: > > "Thank you for your email. According to Avids minimum system requirements > located here > http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Compatibility/en419171 > Pro Tools 10 System Requirements > Last Updated : October 18, 2012 > 10.8 Mountain Lion is currently not qualified for use with Pro Tools 10. > Again we would urge you to provide feedback to Avid regarding this and asking > them > to update their software for 10.8 Mountain Lion accessibility compatibility. > > Apple Accessibility" > I also didn't find any informations regarding accessibility. > > I really don't know, what to do next. > > Thanks > > Stefan > Am 13.11.2012 um 21:09 schrieb Slau Halatyn: > >> folks, >> >> Be prepared for a canned response from Apple. They will probably try to send >> you an outdated link to a page on Avid's web site that shows Pro Tools as >> not being compatible with Mountain Lion. Shoot back the following link: >> http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/Pro-Tools-10-3-2-Downloads >> which shows that Pro Tools 10.3.2 does, in fact, support Mountain Lion. >> Also, reiterate the fact that stuff works in snow Leopard and Lion but not >> in Mountain Lion and there should be no reason for that. >> >> Slau >> >
Re: Question about monitoring vocals
I never use direct monitoring because I like having the PT effects running during my recording sessions. The latency isn't really that bad, it's just part of the process. Plus, if I were to use direct monitoring, I lose out on any panning I've done in PT to see how other tracks I'm recording are sitting with everything else. You also miss out on the ability to tell if a track is record enabled. I actually think that direct monitoring is a hindrance. I hired an engineer 3 years ago who used direct monitoring and because of this, wasn't able to pick out some major problems with what was going into pro tools until it was too late. Let's just say it was a $4000 lesson learned. Kevin
Re: Question about monitoring vocals
I just input at around -10, and insert the comp while recording, which will crank up the output gain to a desirable level. It's just a matter of preference. I prefer recording with some effects on to help the process along.
Re: Apple's initial response
Hello Slau, Now I found the time to visit the site, you mentioned. I found something confusing: If I click the link mentioned below and search for a heading "for Pro Tools 10 and Mountain Lion" or so and read along, I can click the following link for more information: http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/compatibility/Avid-Software-and-Mac-OS-X-10-8 there is an article dated from the 27th of september. On the other hand, Apple accessibility sent me the following mail: "Thank you for your email. According to Avids minimum system requirements located here http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Compatibility/en419171 Pro Tools 10 System Requirements Last Updated : October 18, 2012 10.8 Mountain Lion is currently not qualified for use with Pro Tools 10. Again we would urge you to provide feedback to Avid regarding this and asking them to update their software for 10.8 Mountain Lion accessibility compatibility. Apple Accessibility" I also didn't find any informations regarding accessibility. I really don't know, what to do next. Thanks Stefan Am 13.11.2012 um 21:09 schrieb Slau Halatyn: > folks, > > Be prepared for a canned response from Apple. They will probably try to send > you an outdated link to a page on Avid's web site that shows Pro Tools as not > being compatible with Mountain Lion. Shoot back the following link: > http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/Pro-Tools-10-3-2-Downloads > which shows that Pro Tools 10.3.2 does, in fact, support Mountain Lion. Also, > reiterate the fact that stuff works in snow Leopard and Lion but not in > Mountain Lion and there should be no reason for that. > > Slau >
Re: an update regarding my meeting with Avid
Be it a Pro Tools expert group or the women's institute, in my experience, the more people who know about a thing, even if it directly affects them or not, they still take an interest, and even if 2 people who aren't blind PT users mention the word accessibility in earshot of Avid, that's two more than before. On 14/11/2012, Nickus de Vos wrote: > Hi guys > I personally think getting some mainstreem publicity for our cause and > getting the message out there of a blind PT using community can only > be a good thing and if anything can be an advantage. > Slau in the past I mentioned to you that on behalf of us you should > connect and build a relationship with the guys of the pro tools expert > blog but back then you said to me that it's not a good idea because we > already have direct contact with Avid. I still think it's a good idea > to connect with them and let them know of our existance. I'm not > saying ask them to start putting pressure on Avid or anything, but > those guys are really tight with some of the guys working at Avid so > if we need anything in the future, they might be able to help with a > little perswasive power. No one is quite sure of the PT landscape in > the future, the entire mainstreem comunity is unsure of certain things > and we are even more so with aaax accessibility etc. I think if only > for the sake of them knowing about us, it's still a good idea to > extend a friendly hand. > > Brian Casey wrote: >> Haha, it was rather public and very much on the record which caught me off >> gard for one! Good show though!! >> >> Brian >> >> On 11/11/2012, at 3:06 PM, "Slau Halatyn" wrote: >> >> > Hi Brian, >> > >> > I did happen to catch those mentions on Pensado's Place but I didn't >> > expect that to go down exactly in that manner. At any rate, it's all >> > good in the end and perhaps even better. More to come :) >> > >> > Slau >> > >> > >> > On Nov 11, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Brian Casey wrote: >> > >> >> Slau, great stuff, i also noticed two very strong supportive mentions >> >> of the meeting on dave pensados youtube show, i'm sure your more than >> >> aware of that very public and intentional shout out! >> >> >> >> Everything you've been telling us about the merrits of your approach >> >> seems to be justified completely, well done, hopefully these meetings >> >> can consolidate a more official and future proof state of affairs. >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> On 10/11/2012, at 11:07 PM, "Slau Halatyn" >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Forgive the delay but I wanted to update the list on my meeting with >> >>> Avid. I'll offer a more detailed explanation in a few days. For now, >> >>> let me say that the meeting went well and was well attended. Among the >> >>> many changes at Avid, there have been a few changes to key people in >> >>> charge of Pro Tools. I believe, in this case, it happens to work in >> >>> our favor. Again, I'll explain in more detail in a few days. For now, >> >>> I'm waiting for a couple of things to be coordinated before I go into >> >>> detail about the meeting and what we might expect in the near future. >> >>> >> >>> On a side note, I was scheduled to come back from san Francisco on >> >>> Sunday, October 28. Unfortunately, because of Hurricane Sandy, my >> >>> flight was cancelled and thus I was forced to stay in San Francisco an >> >>> extra 4 days. While there are worse places to be stuck, there are also >> >>> cheaper places to be stuck, for sure. I'd like to think it was money >> >>> well spent. Anyway, I've been playing catch-up since then. Things are >> >>> getting back to normal so give me a few more days and I'll share >> >>> more. >> >>> >> >>> Best, >> >>> >> >>> Slau >> >>> >> > > -- Take care, Chris Norman.
Re: Question about monitoring vocals
OK, have you got a number for M-Audio, which I could call? The last time that I looked on their web site, I didn't seem to find anything. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @gilland_chris Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 - Original Message - From: TheOreoMonster To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:48 PM Subject: Re: Question about monitoring vocals Two suggestions. A) have someone sighted next to you while on the phone with m-audio support, or b) call m-audio and see if they will remote into your system and set it up for you. Also they don't need to be a computer wiz to follow the steps laid out in the manual. On Nov 13, 2012, at 9:57 PM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" wrote: The issue is I don't know how to enable direct monitoring on the C400. I think you gotta do it through the M-Audio control panel, which isn't accessible in the least, and I lamentably don't have anyone sighted who knows anything at all about what they're doing that could help me go in there and turn that on. Anyway, again, I'm probably "rambling" so I'll shut up. Thank you kindly, Christopher-Mark Gilland. Founder of CLG Productions Blog: http://www.clgproductions.org Podcast: http://clgproductions.podhoster.com E-mail: ch...@clgproductions.com IMessage/Facetime: theblindmusic...@att.net Windows Live Messenger: ch...@blindperspectives.net Twitter: @gilland_chris Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/christopher.gilland Skype: twinklesfriend2007 Send me a fax from any standard fax machine: 704-697-2069 Google Voice: (Please use sparingly): 980-272-8570 - Original Message - From: TheOreoMonster To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:47 PM Subject: Re: Question about monitoring vocals actually since we are recording in digital and at 24 bits there is no reason to record as loud as you can with out clipping anymore. That was what you had to do in the analog days to make sure the audio was up over the noise floor of tape or you would hear the tape hiss during what you were recording. You record at lower levels you have more room to bring tracks up in the mix before they clip and more flexibility withcompression and other dynamics effects. As for the original question. stop trying to monitor what is in the DAW and listen to the direct monitoring from the interface. you should have enough level there without having to crank everything up. Unless you have a reverb or something else on the track that you want to monitor yourself through while recording, there is really no benefit to using the input monitor in your DAW over the direct monitor of the interface. But if you insist on monitoring through the DAW, then try putting a gain plug in in one of the insert slots. On Nov 13, 2012, at 9:09 PM, Chris Norman wrote: OK, no offense, but I got bored of reading half way through the message, but here it is: I'm not a pro, but I always thought you got the original signal as loud as possible without clipping. Personally, I head for as close to 0db on that gain indicator as possible, usually stopping level testing at about -3db, to account for the fact that people usually sing louder with the backing in their ears. No clue how you get anything done at -10db, but maybe I'm completely wrong. If that's still not loud enough, turn the fader right up, no one cares of that fuzzes, then, if you still don't have enough, once you've got your initial level set, compress away, use the fatten or brick wall presets, and you should be fine. Anyways, sorry if I missed your point, but all the extra jabber you put in your messages means about 50 paragraphs of "whatever whatever, this is completely by the point", and I'm bored out of my mind, but I think paragraph 3 said it all. HTH, Take care, Chris Norman. On 14 Nov 2012, at 02:01, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" wrote: OK, this may seem like quite an elementary question, and a lot of you probably are gonna look at me and think I'm nuts for asking, but here's my situation. I have a pare of head phones which I've been using for a while now. I'm not gonna sit here and lie to you guies. They're IFrogs. They're not studio-grade by any theory of the spectrom. I do have a pare that is
Re: an update regarding my meeting with Avid
Hi guys I personally think getting some mainstreem publicity for our cause and getting the message out there of a blind PT using community can only be a good thing and if anything can be an advantage. Slau in the past I mentioned to you that on behalf of us you should connect and build a relationship with the guys of the pro tools expert blog but back then you said to me that it's not a good idea because we already have direct contact with Avid. I still think it's a good idea to connect with them and let them know of our existance. I'm not saying ask them to start putting pressure on Avid or anything, but those guys are really tight with some of the guys working at Avid so if we need anything in the future, they might be able to help with a little perswasive power. No one is quite sure of the PT landscape in the future, the entire mainstreem comunity is unsure of certain things and we are even more so with aaax accessibility etc. I think if only for the sake of them knowing about us, it's still a good idea to extend a friendly hand. Brian Casey wrote: > Haha, it was rather public and very much on the record which caught me off > gard for one! Good show though!! > > Brian > > On 11/11/2012, at 3:06 PM, "Slau Halatyn" wrote: > > > Hi Brian, > > > > I did happen to catch those mentions on Pensado's Place but I didn't expect > > that to go down exactly in that manner. At any rate, it's all good in the > > end and perhaps even better. More to come :) > > > > Slau > > > > > > On Nov 11, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Brian Casey wrote: > > > >> Slau, great stuff, i also noticed two very strong supportive mentions of > >> the meeting on dave pensados youtube show, i'm sure your more than aware > >> of that very public and intentional shout out! > >> > >> Everything you've been telling us about the merrits of your approach seems > >> to be justified completely, well done, hopefully these meetings can > >> consolidate a more official and future proof state of affairs. > >> Brian > >> > >> On 10/11/2012, at 11:07 PM, "Slau Halatyn" wrote: > >> > >>> Forgive the delay but I wanted to update the list on my meeting with > >>> Avid. I'll offer a more detailed explanation in a few days. For now, let > >>> me say that the meeting went well and was well attended. Among the many > >>> changes at Avid, there have been a few changes to key people in charge of > >>> Pro Tools. I believe, in this case, it happens to work in our favor. > >>> Again, I'll explain in more detail in a few days. For now, I'm waiting > >>> for a couple of things to be coordinated before I go into detail about > >>> the meeting and what we might expect in the near future. > >>> > >>> On a side note, I was scheduled to come back from san Francisco on > >>> Sunday, October 28. Unfortunately, because of Hurricane Sandy, my flight > >>> was cancelled and thus I was forced to stay in San Francisco an extra 4 > >>> days. While there are worse places to be stuck, there are also cheaper > >>> places to be stuck, for sure. I'd like to think it was money well spent. > >>> Anyway, I've been playing catch-up since then. Things are getting back to > >>> normal so give me a few more days and I'll share more. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> > >>> Slau > >>> > >
Re: Apple's initial response
I'm not sure I like blindly following advice, maybe a little explanation as to why you're so certain it's Apple's fault wouldn't go amiss Slau, I'm certainly interested. But, on this occasion, I will take your word for it, as I don't really understand the complexities of what Avid did or didn't do reguarding Pro Tools accessibility. Cheers, On 14/11/2012, J. R. Westmoreland wrote: > Well, as a programmer I think you might be right. > > As an Apple developer, if they looked at my code and found accessibility > issues and that is what I was reporting then they would be within their > right to ask that either I fix the issues or show why I believe they aren't > causing the problem. > > This really can be kindly passed along to all parties and ask that they > JOINTLY look at the issue and see what can be done. > > Please be careful before categorically stating that one or the other party > has no responsibility. If they are responsible engineers they shouldn't > flatly state they aren't at fault and at least be willing to entertain the > idea of a joint look. > > > > Has the inspector been used by Avid? If so, I'd hope they are aware of the > issues generated by the inspector and what they might mean and there > potential side effects. > > > > Best, > > J. R. > > > > P. S. I'm just glad I kept my Lion partition around just to use with, yes > we > will say it quietly, Pro Tools. It is the only thing still over there that > requires that partition. I have to do a recording for a concert in a few > weeks and while PT might be overkill it is still pretty good. > > > > > > > > From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf > Of Chris Norman > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:16 PM > To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Apple's initial response > > > > Well, the reason I mention Avid is simple. If Apple start looking at the > flood of reports about the same bug, all pertaining to Pro Tools, they'll > do > what they've done already, and try and palm it off on Avid. If they > continue > to get the bug returned to them, and the look into it, I'm sure they have > actual programmers who really understand the stuff this tool is telling me, > and what it's saying, is that Pro Tools isn't exactly squeaky clean. A few > accessibility descriptions here and there, and so it gives them more reason > to try and pass the book to Avid. > > > > I have already emailed Apple about it, and as I previously said, got the > same response as Chris, and you Slau, and presumably everyone else who's > emailed them, but I don't think we should hold Apple soully responsible for > this problem, just because your friend, who is remaining nameless, told you > it's a bug on Apple's end. I have no clue about the stuff I'm seeing, but > it > still can't hurt, if this information is packageable, to send it to Avid, > and point out that although most likely, the edit values are an Apple bug, > Pro Tools does have some accessibility flaws, which Apple will likely want > sorting before it'll even consider the possibility that it's largest piece > of software has a bug. > > > > Cheers, > > > Take care, > > Chris Norman > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Nov 2012, at 22:06, Slau Halatyn wrote: > > > > > > Please, forget about Avid. As I said several times, this has nothing to do > with them. Focus on Apple. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Slau > > > > On Nov 13, 2012, at 5:03 PM, Chris Norman wrote: > > > > > > OK, I found it, and I can happily examine the control. It seems to be > telling me it's a button, but then text area is mentioned too. Is there any > way to bundle up all the information I found, and send it off to Apple, and > / or Avid for analysis? > > > > Funnily enough, when I ran a full accessibility analysis of Pro Tools, the > only things that kicked off errors were the pan knobs having a press > action, > and about 140 errors from what looked like Apple's own inputs menu. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Just downloading xCode on my Lion in > > > Take care, > > Chris Norman > > > > > > > > > > On 13 Nov 2012, at 20:54, Yuma Antoine Decaux wrote: > > > > > > Man these people changed the whole structure again, so i have to look for > it. > > > > Sometimes this company frustrates the hell out of me. > > > > > > > > > > > "Light has no value without darkness" > > Mob: +642102277190 > > Skype: Shainobi1 > > twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7 > > > > This message is protected by article 4-210 of a certain book of laws but > you > don't have to worry about privacy issues if you are the intended recipient. > However, if any freakish circumstance such as ip sniffing, honey pot open > relay servers or an honest mistake caused a transmission error, please > advise the sender and throw your laptop into a bubble bath to avoid all > illicit data retention. > > > > On 14/11/2012, at 9:44 AM, Chris Norman > wrote: > > > > > > I have Xcode on my laptop. How would I do that? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 13 Nov 2012, at 20:40
Re: Question about monitoring vocals
OK, upon reading my message back, yes, perhaps it was a little too scathing, so I would like to publicly apologise for that. My aim was not to cause offense. The fact is, however, it took me a very long time to read your email in full, and about 90% of the information in there was you telling a story about your headphones, or making jokes about stuff (clipping like the holy mother vergin mary, sorry to you religious types etc, for example), which had little to do with the actual problem at hand. I don't mind helping at all, in fact, that's one of the reasons I read the amount of the original message that I did, instead of deleting it, but when it takes me 3 minutes to read a message with a 20 second problem in it, I'm afraid, at 2 in the morning, I have a job covering my genetic sarcasm. You are right of course, this list is here to help, and I wouldn't be part of it if I didn't want to share what little I know about stuff, but the other side of that is, there are some people on here for whom music is their job, or if not, then they have some type of full time occupation, which means they may not have time to read a lengthy email. Anyways, In short, I'm genuinely sorry to have offended you, but perhaps try and keep a little more to the point when stating questions? I'm sure you're a great bloke to go to the pub with, but on a Q and A mailing list, my own personal view is that questions should be stream lined a little more. Of course, if you think I'm being way out of order, unreasonable, a moaning old git, or anything like that, feel free to ignore me. I know I can be a sarcastic, scathing, and cinical git at times. My girlfriend has a whole corner of vocabulary, spacifically for those types of occasions. And for my part, I'll try not to reply to emails at 2 o'clock in the morning, if I think there's a risk I'll upset anyone. Have a great day, and whoever it was who corrected me on why we don't need to worry about gains so much anymore, thank you very much, I never knew that, I will certainly try it. Enjoy, On 14/11/2012, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote: > Well, frankly, yes, I did! take offense. How else was I supposed to explain > my issue, if I didn't explain how I was doing things? I'm not going to get > anywhere if I don't specifically explain what I'm doing so you all can see > my mistake, but in fear of being oh, whoops? gasp! to lengthy, with all do > respect, I'll cut the bullshit and say no more on the topic. Sorry for > asking for any help, sir. Nice to know I can ask questions on list. Oh, > and BTW, thanks for your help, right? Jesus H Christ! > > -- Take care, Chris Norman.
RE: Apple's initial response
Well, as a programmer I think you might be right. As an Apple developer, if they looked at my code and found accessibility issues and that is what I was reporting then they would be within their right to ask that either I fix the issues or show why I believe they aren't causing the problem. This really can be kindly passed along to all parties and ask that they JOINTLY look at the issue and see what can be done. Please be careful before categorically stating that one or the other party has no responsibility. If they are responsible engineers they shouldn't flatly state they aren't at fault and at least be willing to entertain the idea of a joint look. Has the inspector been used by Avid? If so, I'd hope they are aware of the issues generated by the inspector and what they might mean and there potential side effects. Best, J. R. P. S. I'm just glad I kept my Lion partition around just to use with, yes we will say it quietly, Pro Tools. It is the only thing still over there that requires that partition. I have to do a recording for a concert in a few weeks and while PT might be overkill it is still pretty good. From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Norman Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:16 PM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple's initial response Well, the reason I mention Avid is simple. If Apple start looking at the flood of reports about the same bug, all pertaining to Pro Tools, they'll do what they've done already, and try and palm it off on Avid. If they continue to get the bug returned to them, and the look into it, I'm sure they have actual programmers who really understand the stuff this tool is telling me, and what it's saying, is that Pro Tools isn't exactly squeaky clean. A few accessibility descriptions here and there, and so it gives them more reason to try and pass the book to Avid. I have already emailed Apple about it, and as I previously said, got the same response as Chris, and you Slau, and presumably everyone else who's emailed them, but I don't think we should hold Apple soully responsible for this problem, just because your friend, who is remaining nameless, told you it's a bug on Apple's end. I have no clue about the stuff I'm seeing, but it still can't hurt, if this information is packageable, to send it to Avid, and point out that although most likely, the edit values are an Apple bug, Pro Tools does have some accessibility flaws, which Apple will likely want sorting before it'll even consider the possibility that it's largest piece of software has a bug. Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman On 13 Nov 2012, at 22:06, Slau Halatyn wrote: Please, forget about Avid. As I said several times, this has nothing to do with them. Focus on Apple. Thanks, Slau On Nov 13, 2012, at 5:03 PM, Chris Norman wrote: OK, I found it, and I can happily examine the control. It seems to be telling me it's a button, but then text area is mentioned too. Is there any way to bundle up all the information I found, and send it off to Apple, and / or Avid for analysis? Funnily enough, when I ran a full accessibility analysis of Pro Tools, the only things that kicked off errors were the pan knobs having a press action, and about 140 errors from what looked like Apple's own inputs menu. Cheers, Just downloading xCode on my Lion in Take care, Chris Norman On 13 Nov 2012, at 20:54, Yuma Antoine Decaux wrote: Man these people changed the whole structure again, so i have to look for it. Sometimes this company frustrates the hell out of me. "Light has no value without darkness" Mob: +642102277190 Skype: Shainobi1 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7 This message is protected by article 4-210 of a certain book of laws but you don't have to worry about privacy issues if you are the intended recipient. However, if any freakish circumstance such as ip sniffing, honey pot open relay servers or an honest mistake caused a transmission error, please advise the sender and throw your laptop into a bubble bath to avoid all illicit data retention. On 14/11/2012, at 9:44 AM, Chris Norman wrote: I have Xcode on my laptop. How would I do that? Sent from my iPhone On 13 Nov 2012, at 20:40, Yuma Antoine Decaux wrote: Hey Scott, I think you guys should try to pinpoint the issue ui elements with the accessibility inspector that's bundled with x-code. At least you can see what part of the interface has problems, and it even tells you whether the axaccessibility api has been properly coded. Cheers Yuma "Light has no value without darkness" Mob: +642102277190 Skype: Shainobi1 twitter: http://www.twitter.com/triple7 This message is protected by article 4-210 of a certain book of laws but you don't have to worry about privacy issues if you are the intended recipient. However, if any freakish circumst
