Re: [pygame] Networking
That does look like a great starting point, thanks Gregor. -- Message Sent By: *Joseph Lewis III* joehm...@gmail.com Public Key: [0xF8462E1593141C16]http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF8462E1593141C16 On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Gregor Lingl gregor.li...@aon.at wrote: Am 07.03.2011 15:03, schrieb Joseph Lewis: Twisted is a little large and written in Python, although I would like to prototype in Python, the goal would be to get the code to be an integral part of Pygame and fairly small. Twisted isn't a liitle large but *very* large. A small, useful and nicely designed Networking module is - imho - PodSixNet (to be found an pygame.org), at least it might be a good starting point. Regards, Gregor I will look in to that, thanks. -- Message Sent By: *Joseph Lewis* joehm...@gmail.com Public Key: [0xF8462E1593141C16]http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF8462E1593141C16 On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Alex Nordlund deep.alexan...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Joseph Lewis joehm...@gmail.com wrote: Does pygame have a networking module? There doesn't seem to be anything about networking in the documentation or subversion. What's wrong with twisted? Also, you should look up Vertex, could simplify what you're proposing. --- //Alex
Re: [pygame] Networking
Twisted is a little large and written in Python, although I would like to prototype in Python, the goal would be to get the code to be an integral part of Pygame and fairly small. I will look in to that, thanks. -- Message Sent By: *Joseph Lewis* joehm...@gmail.com Public Key: [0xF8462E1593141C16]http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF8462E1593141C16 On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Alex Nordlund deep.alexan...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Joseph Lewis joehm...@gmail.com wrote: Does pygame have a networking module? There doesn't seem to be anything about networking in the documentation or subversion. What's wrong with twisted? Also, you should look up Vertex, could simplify what you're proposing. --- //Alex
Re: [pygame] Networking
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Joseph Lewis joehm...@gmail.com wrote: Twisted is a little large and written in Python, although I would like to prototype in Python, the goal would be to get the code to be an integral part of Pygame and fairly small. But whenever networking is involved, it's usually best to use twisted. --- //Alex
Re: [pygame] Networking
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Joseph Lewis joehm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Does pygame have a networking module? There doesn't seem to be anything about networking in the documentation or subversion. If there is no module I was thinking about building one through GSOC 2011, if pygame is participating of course, with some general features, such as: - Chat (possibly with expletive filtering). - A way to send objects transparently across the network. - Possible multicast. - A high level client server model to allow for quick setup of certain kinds of games (i.e. turn based) - Any other cool suggestions you have. Cheers, Joe There are a number of networking modules as PyGame projects on pygame.org, but no, PyGame does not have in-built networking support.
Re: [pygame] Networking
Well I've a petitions (or suggestions) I'm doing a online real-time game and have to solve that problem... I'll suggest you to do the thinks that are necessary from TCP to use over UDP, that's: A packet indexing method (to mantain the order of the packets in the reciber, it can be done by inserting extra bits in the head of each packet) A CRC to find errors. To make online games, you prefer UDP vs TCP because UDP supports multicast (well, the ISP's normally no, but the protocol yes) and because the lost/corrupted packages are resended by stoping the queue (and that's no aceptable for a game in real-time. In that sort of games you prefer to recognize a damaged package and ignore it, TCP sends to emissor a ACK of each package and THEN emissor sends the next one or resends the last one if something went wrong... it sucks...). So the CRC will be a great idea. The order: normally, I send to clients from server orders to draw in screen (draw image A in screen coords x,y, image B in x1,y1...) but the order must be known in the client (sending info in each package saying: now there is the info of tho next screen to draw, the number X: draw a image A in screen coords x,y, image B) so if the packet of the screen number X+1 arrives to client before the X, the client will draw the X+1 and ignore the X. 2011/3/6 Joseph Lewis joehm...@gmail.com Hi, Does pygame have a networking module? There doesn't seem to be anything about networking in the documentation or subversion. If there is no module I was thinking about building one through GSOC 2011, if pygame is participating of course, with some general features, such as: - Chat (possibly with expletive filtering). - A way to send objects transparently across the network. - Possible multicast. - A high level client server model to allow for quick setup of certain kinds of games (i.e. turn based) - Any other cool suggestions you have. Cheers, Joe -- Message Sent By: *Joseph Lewis* joehm...@gmail.com Public Key: [0xF8462E1593141C16]http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF8462E1593141C16 -- Nota: Tildes omitidas para evitar incompatibilidades. :wq
Re: [pygame] Networking
Great suggestions, thanks. I'll definitely add those in to my proposal. On Mar 6, 2011 3:09 PM, inigo.delg...@gmail.com inigo.delg...@gmail.com wrote: Well I've a petitions (or suggestions) I'm doing a online real-time game and have to solve that problem... I'll suggest you to do the thinks that are necessary from TCP to use over UDP, that's: A packet indexing method (to mantain the order of the packets in the reciber, it can be done by inserting extra bits in the head of each packet) A CRC to find errors. To make online games, you prefer UDP vs TCP because UDP supports multicast (well, the ISP's normally no, but the protocol yes) and because the lost/corrupted packages are resended by stoping the queue (and that's no aceptable for a game in real-time. In that sort of games you prefer to recognize a damaged package and ignore it, TCP sends to emissor a ACK of each package and THEN emissor sends the next one or resends the last one if something went wrong... it sucks...). So the CRC will be a great idea. The order: normally, I send to clients from server orders to draw in screen (draw image A in screen coords x,y, image B in x1,y1...) but the order must be known in the client (sending info in each package saying: now there is the info of tho next screen to draw, the number X: draw a image A in screen coords x,y, image B) so if the packet of the screen number X+1 arrives to client before the X, the client will draw the X+1 and ignore the X. 2011/3/6 Joseph Lewis joehm...@gmail.com Hi, Does pygame have a networking module? There doesn't seem to be anything about networking in the documentation or subversion. If there is no module I was thinking about building one through GSOC 2011, if pygame is participating of course, with some general features, such as: - Chat (possibly with expletive filtering). - A way to send objects transparently across the network. - Possible multicast. - A high level client server model to allow for quick setup of certain kinds of games (i.e. turn based) - Any other cool suggestions you have. Cheers, Joe -- Message Sent By: *Joseph Lewis* joehm...@gmail.com Public Key: [0xF8462E1593141C16] http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF8462E1593141C16 -- Nota: Tildes omitidas para evitar incompatibilidades. :wq
Re: [pygame] Networking
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Joseph Lewis joehm...@gmail.com wrote: Does pygame have a networking module? There doesn't seem to be anything about networking in the documentation or subversion. What's wrong with twisted? Also, you should look up Vertex, could simplify what you're proposing. --- //Alex
[pygame] Networking
Hi, Does pygame have a networking module? There doesn't seem to be anything about networking in the documentation or subversion. If there is no module I was thinking about building one through GSOC 2011, if pygame is participating of course, with some general features, such as: - Chat (possibly with expletive filtering). - A way to send objects transparently across the network. - Possible multicast. - A high level client server model to allow for quick setup of certain kinds of games (i.e. turn based) - Any other cool suggestions you have. Cheers, Joe -- Message Sent By: *Joseph Lewis* joehm...@gmail.com Public Key: [0xF8462E1593141C16]http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF8462E1593141C16
Re: [pygame] Networking library
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:17:35AM -0700, Patrick Mullen wrote: On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:55 AM, Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 04:44:30PM -0700, Patrick Mullen wrote: Python2.6 comes with json. Other than that, it is a small thing to include. The library seems to be built around json, so removing it as a dependency doesn't make much sense. Actually I don't think it would be a huge job to change the serialisation method to something else, optionally. I'll have a look it and see. My only concern is about security - I chose JSON serialisation over something like pickling because there's no way a client can inject malicious code using JSON. I wonder if there's some other safe, built-in, pythonic way of serialising data structures that I don't know about? True. You could probably make the serialization abstract and allow other methods, by plugging in a different Serializer class of some sort. Other than json, yaml, xml, etc I don't know any other good serialization for python, and everything I can think of is a dependency. Maybe for easy testing it could work with repr/eval, but prefers json if it is there. (Repr/eval can serialize the same dictionaries that json can, and I think it's a bit faster too, its just a bit more dangerous) After talking to a friend who suggested a few different serialisation methods, like gherkin, and rencode, I tried implementing a serialisation wrapper layer that lets you choose how to serialise, but gherkin and rencode both didn't produce the exact structures that went in, coming out, so I'm going to have to work a bit harder. I will definately steer clear of repr/eval, but I might try out the other snippet that was posted here. Hopefully I'll come up with something faster and lighter than JSON, with the option to use JSON. Will post back here if and when I get it working. Thanks for your interest. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx
Re: [pygame] Networking library
Chris: Could you share your test code, that you used to evaluate gherkin and rencode? David On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 3:25 AM, Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx wrote: After talking to a friend who suggested a few different serialisation methods, like gherkin, and rencode, I tried implementing a serialisation wrapper layer that lets you choose how to serialise, but gherkin and rencode both didn't produce the exact structures that went in, coming out, so I'm going to have to work a bit harder. I will definately steer clear of repr/eval, but I might try out the other snippet that was posted here. Hopefully I'll come up with something faster and lighter than JSON, with the option to use JSON. Will post back here if and when I get it working. -- dkee...@travelbyroad.net Pitcher's Duel - pitchersduel.python-hosting.com
Re: [pygame] Networking library
Hi David,
I've put a bzr branch of the serialisation stuff here:
bzr co http://mccormick.cx/dev/PodSixNet.serialise/
Let me know if you need me to tar it up or whatever instead. I've had a closer
look and the issue is slightly different for each serialisation method. All
work in my unit tests, but when I run the whiteboard example everything except
json breaks. You can reproduce this by:
* Changing Channel.py to:
'from serialise.rencode import *' or
'from serialise.gherkin import *' or
'from serialise.json import *'
(I'll make that easy to configure at runtime in future)
* Run the unit tests:
python EndPoint.py
python Server.py
* Run the examples:
python examples/WhiteboardServer.py
python examples/WhiteboardClient.py
python examples/WhiteboardClient.py
Rencode fails on the whiteboard example because when it deserialises lists,
they are tuples by default which means you can't use them directly in your code
without turning them back into lists, unless you don't want to modify them. I
don't like that because it puts the onus on the library user to do that
tuple-to-list jiggery when it should Just Work. On the other hand, gherkin
fails with this cryptic message, only when connecting with a second client:
ValueError(Type prefix not supported. ('\\x96'),). So I am sending some
data down the socket which gherkin doesn't like. I am CC'ing the gherkin author
to see if he can help me decypher what's going on there. If it's a simple fix I
am probably going to go with using gherkin by default with the option of
simplejson in py2.6, and the built-in json for = py2.6
Patches welcome!
Best,
Chris.
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 08:24:40AM -0600, David wrote:
Chris:
Could you share your test code, that you used to evaluate gherkin and rencode?
David
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 3:25 AM, Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx wrote:
After talking to a friend who suggested a few different serialisation
methods,
like gherkin, and rencode, I tried implementing a serialisation wrapper
layer
that lets you choose how to serialise, but gherkin and rencode both didn't
produce the exact structures that went in, coming out, so I'm going to have
to
work a bit harder. I will definately steer clear of repr/eval, but I might
try
out the other snippet that was posted here. Hopefully I'll come up with
something faster and lighter than JSON, with the option to use JSON. Will
post
back here if and when I get it working.
--
dkee...@travelbyroad.net
Pitcher's Duel - pitchersduel.python-hosting.com
---
http://mccormick.cx
Re: [pygame] Networking library
Hi, On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 04:44:30PM -0700, Patrick Mullen wrote: Python2.6 comes with json. Other than that, it is a small thing to include. The library seems to be built around json, so removing it as a dependency doesn't make much sense. Actually I don't think it would be a huge job to change the serialisation method to something else, optionally. I'll have a look it and see. My only concern is about security - I chose JSON serialisation over something like pickling because there's no way a client can inject malicious code using JSON. I wonder if there's some other safe, built-in, pythonic way of serialising data structures that I don't know about? The whiteboard example is very impressive! It looks a lot easier to start working with than twisted. Thanks! My intention was for it to be extremely simple, and lightweight, which Twisted isn't (/me dons his flame retardant suit). Part of being lightweight and simple is probably removing dependencies on unneccesary third party libraries, so I think I will have a crack at removing the simplejson requirement, and also making the built-in JSON of 2.6 useable. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx
Re: [pygame] Networking library
Meh, thunderbird always ruins formatting ... safe_eval.py attached import compiler class Unsafe_Source_Error(Exception): def __init__(self,error,descr = None,node = None): self.error = error self.descr = descr self.node = node self.lineno = getattr(node,lineno,None) def __repr__(self): return Line %d. %s: %s % (self.lineno, self.error, self.descr) __str__ = __repr__ class SafeEval(object): def visit(self, node,**kw): cls = node.__class__ meth = getattr(self,'visit'+cls.__name__,self.default) return meth(node, **kw) def default(self, node, **kw): for child in node.getChildNodes(): return self.visit(child, **kw) visitExpression = default def visitConst(self, node, **kw): return node.value def visitDict(self,node,**kw): return dict([(self.visit(k),self.visit(v)) for k,v in node.items]) def visitUnarySub(self, node, **kw): return -self.visit(node.getChildNodes()[0]) def visitTuple(self,node, **kw): return tuple(self.visit(i) for i in node.nodes) def visitList(self,node, **kw): return [self.visit(i) for i in node.nodes] class SafeEvalWithErrors(SafeEval): def default(self, node, **kw): raise Unsafe_Source_Error(Unsupported source construct, node.__class__,node) def visitName(self,node, **kw): if node.name == 'None': return None if node.name == 'True': return True if node.name == 'False': return False raise Unsafe_Source_Error(Strings must be quoted, node.name, node) # Add more specific errors if desired def safe_eval(source, fail_on_error = True): walker = fail_on_error and SafeEvalWithErrors() or SafeEval() try: ast = compiler.parse(source,eval) except SyntaxError, err: raise try: return walker.visit(ast) except Unsafe_Source_Error, err: raise
[pygame] Networking library
Hi All, I posted this as a project page on the pygame website, but I'm not getting much traction with my library, so I thought I'd post it here to see if anyone is interested. Basically it's a [hopefully] super-easy-to-use networking library that works well with Pygame too. Included is a simple networked whiteboard demo written in pure Pygame. http://mccormick.cx/projects/PodSixNet/ Have fun, and please let me know what you thik, or if you find bugs, or need help. Best, Chris. --- http://mccormick.cx
Re: [pygame] Networking library
I'm sure it might be a pain, but removing the dependency on simplejson would be really great. Either, that, or include it in the distr. -Ian
Re: [pygame] Networking library
I agree, preferably the former :) On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Ian Mallett geometr...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure it might be a pain, but removing the dependency on simplejson would be really great. Either, that, or include it in the distr. -Ian
Re: [pygame] Networking library
Python2.6 comes with json. Other than that, it is a small thing to include. The library seems to be built around json, so removing it as a dependency doesn't make much sense. I took a look at this library when you announced it and thought it looks good, but I haven't had a chance to really try it out. The whiteboard example is very impressive! It looks a lot easier to start working with than twisted.
Re: [pygame] Re:[pygame] networking example
Thanks for the info. I've been going through the Twisted tutorials. I tried out raknet, but I only found one tutorial. Here's psuedo code I wrote trying to accomplish the Asteroids demo above. Am I heading in the right direction? Should I be using LineReceiver() and just send text messages like that? Will parsing the message strings be too slow? Or should I be using actual python objects in the messages? I'm not sure how I can handle the data. # Should I be using text messages, or be using python lists? # Snippet from tutorial: finger19a.py def getUser(self, user): return defer.succeed(self.users.get(user, No such user)) def getUsers(self): return defer.succeed(self.users.keys()) def setUser(self, user, status): self.users[user] = status # Here's my psuedo code test: import twisted stuff # psuedo code import # == game_client.py == class GameClient( basic.LineReceiver ): # or wrong class for the client? def __init__(self): self.asteroids = [] # list of: Asteroid(Actor): self.bullets = [] # list of: Bullet(Actor): self.ships = [] # list of: Ship(Actor): self.state = round start def keyboard_input(self): if keyPressed['fire'] and cooldownDone(): msg = fire, bullet, %d, %d % ( self.loc.x, self.loc.y ) self.factory.server.message( msg ) def loop(self): main loop if self.state == round start: self.factory.server.message( ready ) elif self.state == round: self.keyboard_input() physics_update() graphics_draw() # update my location to server if time_elapsed( 150 ms ): # but only ever Xms elapsed id, x, y = self.ship.ID, self.ship.loc.x, self.ship.loc.y self.factory.server.message(player, %d, %d, %d % (id, x, y ) ) # else: always: sleep() # or not? def lineReceived(self, line): string received command from clients example: 'fire, bullet, x, y' cmds = splitIntoCmds(line) if cmds[0] == fire: self.spawn( cmds[1:] ) # arg is the rest of the command if cmds[0] == player: id, x, y = cmds[1], cmds[2], cmds[3] self.ships[id].loc = (x, y ) # == game_server.py == class GameServer(basic.LineReceiver): # Maybe wrong type to descend from def __init__(self): self.asteroids = [] # list of: Asteroid(Actor): self.bullets = [] # list of: Bullet(Actor): self.ships = [] # list of: Ship(Actor): self.state = round start def randomAsteroids(self): init randomized asteroids self.spawn( asteroid, %d, %d % ( rand(), rand() ) def loop(self): main loop if self.state = round start: self.randomAsteroids() self.state = round # could wait till I get a 'ready' from all players elif self.state = round: self.update() # update physics # also update players movements to each other for c in self.factory.clients: c.message( player, ID, loc ) sleep() # or not ? def spawn(self, cmds): spawn something: unit, x, y and notify clilents unit, x, y = cmds[0], cmds[1], cmds[2] if unit == bullet: self.bullets.append( Bullet( x, y ) ) elif unit == asteroid: self.asteroids.append( Asteroid( x, y ) ) # notify clients of new Actor()'s msg = spawn: %s, %d, %d % ( unit, x, y ) for c in self.factory.clients: c.message(msg) def lineReceived(self, line): string received command from clients example: 'fire, bullet, x, y' or 'player, ID, x, y' cmds = splitIntoCmds(line) if cmds[0] == fire: self.spawn( cmds[1:] ) # arg is the rest of the command if cmds[0] == player: id, x, y = cmds[1], cmds[2], cmds[3] self.ships[id].loc = (x, y ) thanks, -- Jake
Re: [pygame] Re:[pygame] networking example
Here are the actual scripts:
***BEGIN asynchat_serv.py ***
#!/usr/bin/python
### This is the game server ###
import asynchat
import asyncore
import socket
class GameServer(asyncore.dispatcher):
The GameServer (mastermind controlling all)
def __init__(self, port):
asyncore.dispatcher.__init__(self)
# create connection
self.create_socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
self.set_reuse_addr()
here = (, port)
self.bind(here)
self.listen(5)
def handle_accept(self):
# accept a connection and create a chat object to handle it
print Accepting connection
GameChat(self, self.accept())
class GameChat(asynchat.async_chat):
This is the GameChat class. Collects messages and updates other clients.
def __init__(self, server, (conn, addr)):
asynchat.async_chat.__init__(self, conn)
self.set_terminator('\n')
self.server = server
self.buffer = ''
def collect_incoming_data(self, data):
self.buffer = self.buffer + data
def found_terminator(self):
# handle end of message
data = self.buffer
# clear the buffer
self.buffer = ''
print Server Received: %s % (data)
cmd = data[:3]
message = data[4:]
# check for any special commands
if cmd == HEL:
print %s said Hello % message
self.push(Hello %s\n % message)
def handle_close(self):
print 'Closing'
self.close()
if __name__ == __main__:
# test the server here
gs = GameServer(5000)
#asyncore.loop()# I think asyncore has a longer timeout
because it takes a long time to kill with ctrl-c
while (1):
asyncore.poll(timeout=.01)
*** END asynchat_serv.py ***
*** BEGIN asynchat_client.py ***
# the client side
import asynchat
import asyncore
import socket
class GameClient(asynchat.async_chat):
GameClient class. Connects to the server and sends messages.
def __init__(self, host, port):
asynchat.async_chat.__init__(self)
self.create_socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
self.buffer =
self.set_terminator(\n)
self.address = (host, port) # address of the server to contact
self.connect(self.address)
self.push(HEL BOB\n\n)
def handle_connect(self):
print Connection Complete
def collect_incoming_data(self, data):
self.buffer = self.buffer + data
def found_terminator(self):
data = self.buffer
self.buffer =
print Client received: %s % (data)
def handle_close(self):
self.close()
if __name__ == __main__:
gc = GameClient(localhost, 5000)
while (1):
asyncore.poll(timeout=.01)
*** END asynchat_client.py ***
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Jake b [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Brian: I am getting a 404 not found on both of your links.
--
Jake
--
Brian Davis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [pygame] Re:[pygame] networking example
Brian: I am getting a 404 not found on both of your links. -- Jake
Re: [pygame] Re:[pygame] networking example
I found the twisted docs a bit hard to follow and wound up building something on asynchat. http://docs.python.org/lib/module-asynchat.html Here is a simple example: Server: http://rafb.net/p/kU58yg32.html Client: http://rafb.net/p/sI2FRw42.html Starting with something like that it's just a matter of defining your state machine and the messages you are going to send. Have your client generate some pygame events, stick the client's asyncore.poll in your pygame loop and away you go. I'm sure it's not very robust or secure but it was a good way for me learn about network programming. On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Patrick Mullen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Found you an exe and an egg: http://www.zope.org/Members/saffe/zope_interface/folder_contents Really annoying when binaries stop being updated. You could also just use sockets of course, they aren't that difficult really. Also, raknet uses udp, but it has built-in workarounds for all of udp's problerms. It can send both reliable packets, and break through NAT's, which are the two most difficult issues with using UDP. Messaging is actually easier with UDP because you send datagrams (messages) instead of a constant stream of bits. Good luck!
Re: [pygame] Re:[pygame] networking example
Found you an exe and an egg: http://www.zope.org/Members/saffe/zope_interface/folder_contents Really annoying when binaries stop being updated. You could also just use sockets of course, they aren't that difficult really. Also, raknet uses udp, but it has built-in workarounds for all of udp's problerms. It can send both reliable packets, and break through NAT's, which are the two most difficult issues with using UDP. Messaging is actually easier with UDP because you send datagrams (messages) instead of a constant stream of bits. Good luck!
Re: [pygame] networking example
Well yes, LAN makes this easier, because you can pick a latency to work with and it will be fairly consistent. With a consistent latency, you can send a message like: bullet will be here by the time you get this message and it should be fairly accurate. Unfortunately there is currently no networking built into pygame, and yes I think there were some people working on such a thing. I think your best bet at this point is to use something like twisted or raknet and build your own scheme that fits your game.
Re: [pygame] networking example
Whenever I think of networking I get depressed. The only thing I have ever done so far with networking was junk like Hello world, through a socket!. This is how I wish I could do networking with pyagme #Setting up a connection link = pygame.net.connection(address) #address is either a string with an IP address or an URL. #Checking for data net_events = pygame.event.get(NET_DATA) print net_events[0].source, sent: , net_events[0].data #Checking for errors net_events = pygame.event.get(NET_ERROR) foreach event in net_events: print event.source, event.error_type #error_type can have values like connection refused, connection lost, ping timeout... #Sending data link.send_data(B7 B6) #Moving a piece from B7 to B6 #Closing a connection link.close() But I guess we don't have anything that simple, do we? -Thiago On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Patrick Mullen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well yes, LAN makes this easier, because you can pick a latency to work with and it will be fairly consistent. With a consistent latency, you can send a message like: bullet will be here by the time you get this message and it should be fairly accurate. Unfortunately there is currently no networking built into pygame, and yes I think there were some people working on such a thing. I think your best bet at this point is to use something like twisted or raknet and build your own scheme that fits your game.
Re: [pygame] Networking?
On Wednesday 21 November 2007 06:51:38 Jason Ward wrote: Thanks for the options guys. I'll look into them when I find the time. But I don't mind low-level stuff if that's what sockets library requires, just as long as it can work. Sure of course it'll work. The code is pretty much the same as you'd find for C based code. We're just trying to save you hassle :-) If you enjoy it though, go for it :-) I looked into twisted but it's documentation is rather difficult and I hate libraries that want the main loop, I prefer the control. FWIW, Kamaelia differs from twisted in that, aside from network systems not being its sole focus, in that it recognises that systems like games, network servers and most interactive systems tend to need multiple threads of control and focusses on making that simpler clearer to work with as well as composable. (networking was the first use case, but was never intended to be the sole focus) As a result _you_ create a component for each logical thread of control. Performance wise this can be pretty similar to hardcoding it yourself (the difference is around 5% last time I measured), but the benefit you get is more explicit control over the main loop for each thing, with a built in way of allowing communication between the main loops. You can use threads to do this: class ConsoleReader(Axon.ThreadedComponent.threadedcomponent): def main(self): while 1: X = raw_input( ) self.send(X, outbox) class ConsoleEchoer(Axon.ThreadedComponent.threadedcomponent): def main(self): while 1: while self.dataReady(inbox): X = self.recv(inbox) print X And then join the dots between them: Pipeline( ConsoleReader(), ConsoleEchoer(), ).run() Or make the components run in the same thread as all the others by changing to a generator: class ConsoleEchoer(Axon.Component.component): def main(self): while 1: while self.dataReady(inbox): X = self.recv(inbox) print X yield 1 But either way, it allows you to have as many main loops *you* want in a piece of code that make sense in a relatively natural scalable way. (Generator components are pretty much equivalent to state machines intermediate buffers, just somewhat more direct) You don't have to use Kamaelia's networking or pygame components for it to be useful, but if you're thinking I need to do more than one thing at once, maybe I should use threads, take a look. Kamaelia can't magically solve your problems of course, so this just a suggestion. Unlike some systems, the core of Kamaelia isn't really the components (which are IMO the useful bit), but really just a core concurrency framework - Axon - which builds the support that enables the above. We've got a simple tutorial that's targetted to explain the approach here where you build your own core: http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/MiniAxon/ And you can happily build systems using such a beast. Indeed, the first pygame components we had came from someone's mini-axon system. I love pygame, but these days I'd never use it by itself :-) (Even if Kamaelia isn't really quite the same model as pygame :-) If you do go down the route of coding your own networking though, I'm sure others would find your ideas/approach interesting :-) The networked pong example was a 20-30 minute hack BTW from start to finish. I'm now MASSIVELY off topic though, so I'll stop there :-) Michael.
Re: [pygame] Networking?
On 11/20/07, Richard Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) Use the Twisted reactor *as* your main loop, and implement all game logic as call-backs from there. This is the approach that the Twisted people will recommend. This is also useless for highly interactive games. I consider my game highly interactive, though the network traffic intensity is not very high. Can you elaborate on why the Twisted reactor is useless? 3) Run the Twisted reactor in its own thread This is probably the only reasonable approach for games. My only experience with threads was in writing an image slideshow program. The graphic blends and transitions were very jerky with threads. Changing to a generator-coroutine approach worked more smoothly. I do not recall any capability in the thread modules for adjusting 'niceness' or state-change frequency. 5) Run the Twisted reactor in its own process, and use pipes or sockets to pass data between it and the main loop/process. This has the merit of using the OS's CPU allocation management rather than that of Python's thread manager. Quite difficult to manage on Windows. Windows is my development platform. I'll let you know how it works out. ;) Richard Thanks for the input. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pitcher's Duel - pitchersduel.python-hosting.com
Re: [pygame] Networking?
hey, please forgive me for any stupid observations.it's just that I've been avoiding testing Twisted because people seem to be of the opinion that it takes over the main loop. And they like having control over that. Can the main reactor be manipulated in such a way that it is not the main loop?
RE: [pygame] Networking?
I hope you mean that the sockets library is not the place to start, simply because it's not immediately easy (unlike Twisted) to get right into? I believe every programmer who wants to use a higher-level library should at least have a stab at the low-level stuff, just to give a better idea of what's going on behind the automagical scenese of things like Twisted Rather than haul in Twisted, a little research on the Python select module could be the very thing people are looking for - all without having any extra dependencies/includes other than the core Python library and Pygame. http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/sockets/ http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/sockets/ - - the Non-blocking Sockets section is particularly enlightening If potential socketeers out there are worried about things like byte-order and so on, remember that the IRC protocol is 100% ASCII-based, and whilst it may have its problems here and there, for the most part it's one of the oldest, reliable protocols available (and great to learn from). --- The python sockets library is probably *not* the place to start. It is very primitive, and most references you will read will recommend using a higher level library such as asyncore or (higher yet) asynchat. Unfortunately, these higher level libraries share the same weakness as Twisted, in that that they expect to own the main loop. --- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 09:44 To: pygame-users@seul.org Subject: Re: [pygame] Networking? The python sockets library is probably *not* the place to start. It is very primitive, and most references you will read will recommend using a higher level library such as asyncore or (higher yet) asynchat. Unfortunately, these higher level libraries share the same weakness as Twisted, in that that they expect to own the main loop. I have identified five general approaches to integrating networking with a pygame application. I have not fully implemented a game with any of them, .. but soon. 1) Use Twisted with reactor.iterate . This is the easiest approach, and the one that Mr Wittber's library uses. Use of reactor.iterate is unfortunately deprecated by the Twisted developers, and will, presumably, be removed from Twisted in some future release. 2) Use the Twisted reactor *as* your main loop, and implement all game logic as call-backs from there. This is the approach that the Twisted people will recommend. This approach is quite burdensome, in that structuring your game into a series of callbacks can be difficult. Using generators as coroutines provides some relief, in that you can pass the generators 'next' method as a callback to Twisted, and maintain game state within the generator. Using subroutines or nested generators involve their own awkwardnesses. 3) Run the Twisted reactor in its own thread, and use ThreadedSelectReactor to move data to the pygame event queue. Bob Ippolito has blogged on how to use this with Pygame (GIYF). Unfortunately, ThreadedSelectReactor is unmaintained and deprecated. 4) Run the Twisted reactor in its own thread, and use thread-safe queues to move data to and from the main thread. Alternatively, if you wish to use the perspective-broker features or use Twisted code beyond mere message passing, there are tools in Twisted for safely invoking methods in other threads. Hmm. maybe these were deprecated with the TSR? 5) Run the Twisted reactor in its own process, and use pipes or sockets to pass data between it and the main loop/process. This has the merit of using the OS's CPU allocation management rather than that of Python's thread manager. Most of these approaches could use asyncore/asynchat as an alternative to Twisted. My own efforts lately have been along approaches 2 and 5. My engine 'Spyre' will run under Twisted's reactor now, but the getting the whole multi-engine game logic sequence working in the 'inside-out' callback style is an imposing prospect. Philip Hassey has recently released a networked pygame-based game. Has he mentioned what networking approach he used? David On 11/19/07, Jason Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to make my game playable over the network and if possible the internet. For the network it must support more than 2 computers and be realtime Would the sockets library in python solve all my needs? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Pitcher's Duel - pitchersduel.python-hosting.com http://pitchersduel.python-hosting.com CONFIDENTIAL NOTICE: This email including any attachments, contains confidential information belonging to the sender. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
Re: [pygame] Networking?
On 11/21/07, Chris Ashurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope you mean that the sockets library is not the place to start, simply because it's not immediately easy (unlike Twisted) to get right into? I believe every programmer who wants to use a higher-level library should at least have a stab at the low-level stuff, just to give a better idea of what's going on behind the automagical scenese of things like Twisted What I meant is that to accomplish something usefull using the sockets library, you have to build higher level systems, and you end up reinventing asyncore or Twisted. Reinventing sucks. Rather than haul in Twisted, a little research on the Python select module could be the very thing people are looking for - all without having any extra dependencies/includes other than the core Python library and Pygame. To each their own, but I consider additional pure-python dependencies to be a non-issue. If including an extra 100K of library code saves me a couple hours of work, I am all for it. Non-pure-python dependencies are an issue, because they may not build on the users machine. http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/sockets/ http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/sockets/ - - the Non-blocking Sockets section is particularly enlightening This is actually the document I would refer people to, to scare them away from socket programming. ;) Quotes: # This is a 10,000 foot overview of sockets. It's not really a tutorial - you'll still have # work to do in getting things operational. It doesn't cover the fine points (and there # are a lot of them), but I hope ... # There's no question that the fastest sockets code uses non-blocking sockets # and select to multiplex them. ... The trouble is that an app written this way # can't do much of anything else - it needs to be ready to shuffle bytes around at # all times. That document was written in the mid 1990's, and the state of networking in Python has advanced since then. As a matter of context, this is a Pygame mailing list, and presumably list-members are interested in getting their game complete and robust. A networking library is just a tool to getting the cool game-state from this server to that client (and client events back to the server), not a contributer to game-state coolness. No disrespect to socket-twiddlers, and I get the impression the original poster may be one himself, but many on the list are interested in easy toolkits to just get 'er done. David -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pitcher's Duel - pitchersduel.python-hosting.com
Re: [pygame] Networking?
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007, David wrote: On 11/20/07, Richard Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) Use the Twisted reactor *as* your main loop, and implement all game logic as call-backs from there. This is the approach that the Twisted people will recommend. This is also useless for highly interactive games. I consider my game highly interactive, though the network traffic intensity is not very high. Can you elaborate on why the Twisted reactor is useless? The minimum time you can pass to iterate() is quite high -- 0.01 seconds IIRC. This means a significant amount of processing time is lost. A possible solution is to only run the reactor.iterate() once every few frames. 3) Run the Twisted reactor in its own thread This is probably the only reasonable approach for games. My only experience with threads was in writing an image slideshow program. The graphic blends and transitions were very jerky with threads. Changing to a generator-coroutine approach worked more smoothly. I do not recall any capability in the thread modules for adjusting 'niceness' or state-change frequency. True - this is a problem I ran into. The only solution I could find was to have the thread periodically artificially block using a semaphore. Richard
Re: [pygame] Networking?
The python sockets library is probably *not* the place to start. It is very primitive, and most references you will read will recommend using a higher level library such as asyncore or (higher yet) asynchat. Unfortunately, these higher level libraries share the same weakness as Twisted, in that that they expect to own the main loop. I have identified five general approaches to integrating networking with a pygame application. I have not fully implemented a game with any of them, .. but soon. 1) Use Twisted with reactor.iterate . This is the easiest approach, and the one that Mr Wittber's library uses. Use of reactor.iterate is unfortunately deprecated by the Twisted developers, and will, presumably, be removed from Twisted in some future release. 2) Use the Twisted reactor *as* your main loop, and implement all game logic as call-backs from there. This is the approach that the Twisted people will recommend. This approach is quite burdensome, in that structuring your game into a series of callbacks can be difficult. Using generators as coroutines provides some relief, in that you can pass the generators 'next' method as a callback to Twisted, and maintain game state within the generator. Using subroutines or nested generators involve their own awkwardnesses. 3) Run the Twisted reactor in its own thread, and use ThreadedSelectReactor to move data to the pygame event queue. Bob Ippolito has blogged on how to use this with Pygame (GIYF). Unfortunately, ThreadedSelectReactor is unmaintained and deprecated. 4) Run the Twisted reactor in its own thread, and use thread-safe queues to move data to and from the main thread. Alternatively, if you wish to use the perspective-broker features or use Twisted code beyond mere message passing, there are tools in Twisted for safely invoking methods in other threads. Hmm. maybe these were deprecated with the TSR? 5) Run the Twisted reactor in its own process, and use pipes or sockets to pass data between it and the main loop/process. This has the merit of using the OS's CPU allocation management rather than that of Python's thread manager. Most of these approaches could use asyncore/asynchat as an alternative to Twisted. My own efforts lately have been along approaches 2 and 5. My engine 'Spyre' will run under Twisted's reactor now, but the getting the whole multi-engine game logic sequence working in the 'inside-out' callback style is an imposing prospect. Philip Hassey has recently released a networked pygame-based game. Has he mentioned what networking approach he used? David On 11/19/07, Jason Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to make my game playable over the network and if possible the internet. For the network it must support more than 2 computers and be realtime Would the sockets library in python solve all my needs? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pitcher's Duel - pitchersduel.python-hosting.com
Re: [pygame] Networking?
On Nov 19, 2007, at 11:08 AM, Jason Ward wrote: I want to make my game playable over the network and if possible the internet. For the network it must support more than 2 computers and be realtime Would the sockets library in python solve all my needs? The appropriate tool totally depends on the game. What works good for a turn based game isn't gonna fly for a first person shooter, for instance. I would use sockets in the following circumstances: - You need low-level control and are already familiar with socket programming and serializing/de-serializing across the wire. Note that you will also need to know how to use async i/o or threads as well. - You really want to want to learn all of the above and have a lot of time and enthusiasm. First I would see if there is another similar game out there that already supports networking. How did they do it? -Casey
Re: [pygame] Networking?
hi this application offers in the next version a network layer http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1870200forum_id=618174 please have a look, if it is ready in the SVN or next release thanks Mike 2007/11/19, Jason Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I want to make my game playable over the network and if possible the internet. For the network it must support more than 2 computers and be realtime Would the sockets library in python solve all my needs?
Re: [pygame] Networking?
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007, David wrote: 1) Use Twisted with reactor.iterate I found that this approach has quite a high impact (ie. takes a considerable amount of time to run, even when there's no network events). 2) Use the Twisted reactor *as* your main loop, and implement all game logic as call-backs from there. This is the approach that the Twisted people will recommend. This is also useless for highly interactive games. 3) Run the Twisted reactor in its own thread This is probably the only reasonable approach for games. 5) Run the Twisted reactor in its own process, and use pipes or sockets to pass data between it and the main loop/process. This has the merit of using the OS's CPU allocation management rather than that of Python's thread manager. Quite difficult to manage on Windows. Richard
Re: [pygame] Networking?
I tried the twisted as separate process thing for a while when i was working with Blender's game engine. At the time it was the only way I knew how to do it, but it was very unwieldy to work with and deploy, just not a good system at all. You are already introducing issues with network communication, why introduce issues with local communication as well. Currently I am using sockets with threads, it works pretty well I think. It seems extremely stable, and fast enough, if I could get my higher level constructs in order. The hard part with network programming in my opinion is the higher level stuff rather than the protocol. How to serialize the data, what data to send, and how to interpret it, is very difficult if you want a smooth game. No networking library I have seen handles this for you. I'd like to see someone write a game network library that handles things like moving characters around and sending chat messages - 95% of networked games need these two things. But most games are so specialized and integrated that it's hard to modularize this functionality to make it general enough for a library. If I ever completely solve my netcode, I don't see myself being up to that task. I used to really like twisted, but it's sort of a hard nut to crack sometimes. When using basically the raw tcp or udp protocols, twisted seems like massive overkill to me, and none of it's constructs seem all that well tailored to games. That might have changed in the few years I've been away though. What things like raknet, hawkNL, etc give you, is the ability for reliable udp sockets, which does make some things a bit easier and smoother. But really, the socket module IS everything you need. It's just a lot of work to set up and learn to use it. On Nov 20, 2007 12:49 PM, Richard Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2007, David wrote: 1) Use Twisted with reactor.iterate I found that this approach has quite a high impact (ie. takes a considerable amount of time to run, even when there's no network events). 2) Use the Twisted reactor *as* your main loop, and implement all game logic as call-backs from there. This is the approach that the Twisted people will recommend. This is also useless for highly interactive games. 3) Run the Twisted reactor in its own thread This is probably the only reasonable approach for games. 5) Run the Twisted reactor in its own process, and use pipes or sockets to pass data between it and the main loop/process. This has the merit of using the OS's CPU allocation management rather than that of Python's thread manager. Quite difficult to manage on Windows. Richard
Re: [pygame] Networking?
On Monday 19 November 2007 19:08:49 Jason Ward wrote: I want to make my game playable over the network and if possible the internet. For the network it must support more than 2 computers and be realtime Would the sockets library in python solve all my needs? Simple outline of a networked pong game (just a networked bouncing ball :-) using Kamaelia for networking and pygame: http://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kamaelia/trunk/Sketches/MPS/Pong.py?revision=3744view=markup To run as a server: # ./Pong.py server To run the client (on the same machine) # ./Pong.py 127.0.0.1 The server runs the game model and publishes to all clients. These need to be serialised, so for the moment the message (ballpos, 100, 200) is serialised as ballpos|100|200X. The X is needed as a record separator. This makes the client slightly more complex. (Since the client needs to demarshall such messages) Other than that, that code is really divided into 4 parts. * A PygameComponent which simplfies using pygame. (To be merged at somepoint onto the mainline) * A component to handle display of scene objects * A component to handle updating the system model * A bunch of components declarations / pipelines to orchestrate behaviour. The code in that example uses some newer features of Kamaelia (mainly to assist readability), so if you want to try that code, you'll need to check out my scratch branch: svn co https://kamaelia.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/kamaelia/branches/private_MPS_Scratch Then install Axon (which Kamaelia depends upon, then install Kamaelia) : cd private_MPS_Scratch cd Axon sudo python setup.py install cd .. cd Kamaelia sudo python setup.py install Hope its of interest :-) Michael.
Re: [pygame] Networking?
Thanks for the options guys. I'll look into them when I find the time. But I don't mind low-level stuff if that's what sockets library requires, just as long as it can work. Surely there must be some good C/C++ library that I can call with ctypes? What about just calling the win32 api straight with ctypes to do all my networking? I looked into twisted but it's documentation is rather difficult and I hate libraries that want the main loop, I prefer the control.
[pygame] Networking?
I want to make my game playable over the network and if possible the internet. For the network it must support more than 2 computers and be realtime Would the sockets library in python solve all my needs?
Re: [pygame] Networking?
Not really. There isn't yet a good, lightweight networking library that plays well with pygame. Pyraknet is worth a look, as is Twisted, but both have their own problems. I've got some code I can throw your way, but it still has rough edges. --Noah On Nov 19, 2007, at 2:08 PM, Jason Ward wrote: I want to make my game playable over the network and if possible the internet. For the network it must support more than 2 computers and be realtime Would the sockets library in python solve all my needs?
Re: [pygame] Networking?
On Tue, 20 Nov 2007, Noah Kantrowitz wrote: Pyraknet is worth a look, as is Twisted, but both have their own problems. Twisted is very mature, but can take some effort to learn how to use. It can also be very tricky to incorporate into a game. Richard
Re: [pygame] Networking?
On Nov 20, 2007 4:08 AM, Jason Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to make my game playable over the network and if possible the internet. For the network it must support more than 2 computers and be realtime Would the sockets library in python solve all my needs? http://www.google.com/search?q=simple+pygame+networking Try the first link returned. :-) -- :: Simon Wittber :: http://www.linkedin.com/in/simonwittber :: phone: +61.4.0135.0685 :: jabber/msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
So... To summarise, it seems that people think Twisted is better than a re-implementation, and that running the network loop can should be an optional possibility. It seems people are using PB with some success. Is an RPC-like system such as PB preferable to a simple message/event passing system?
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
Simon Wittber kirjoitti: I think that is a matter of one's perspective on what is 'nice'. sure seems like that. Also, I don't really think it is such a big project. I've built this sort of low level system before (using TCP instead of UDP) with higher level stuff to pass dictionaries around in network messages... and ok.. but, they end up being 10k code, and much less intrusive than the twisted reactor. (http://fibranet.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nanotubes.py) 'intrusive'? as in .. filesize? did not look at that code yet, will certainly check out, thanks for mentioning :) I also want to use UDP, so I have more opportunities to tweak my protocol to fit the way my games / app want to work. I was also curious if there are ways to use Twisted with UDP, I actually thought/assumed there are. Then again, we have not tested yet for the relatively-low-latency networking need we have for a game now, will be interesting to see if TCP cuts it -- if not, there are existing libs that use UDP for these kinds of things too, which we can test, if TCP, and hence some of the existing simple tools, is too slow. I planned to test TCP with Tofu first (the twisted, but not pb?, using thing from the folks who make soya3d (oomadness)), and then perhaps look at Verse and/or VOB from interreality.org .. then again I should first check what game libs there are, do remember that there were some folks use in some SDL games *googles a bit so you dont have to teach me* uh well game networking library gives a lot now. Well, we'll proceed along that plan soon enough - am also interested to here and see how your things work. ~Toni
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
Another library worth considering is: http://pyraknet.slowchop.com/ - I haven't used it myself, but I've heard many good things about raknet. It's a networking library written primarily for games. Phil Toni Alatalo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Simon Wittber kirjoitti: I think that is a matter of one's perspective on what is 'nice'. sure seems like that. Also, I don't really think it is such a big project. I've built this sort of low level system before (using TCP instead of UDP) with higher level stuff to pass dictionaries around in network messages... and ok.. but, they end up being 10k code, and much less intrusive than the twisted reactor. (http://fibranet.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nanotubes.py) 'intrusive'? as in .. filesize? did not look at that code yet, will certainly check out, thanks for mentioning :) I also want to use UDP, so I have more opportunities to tweak my protocol to fit the way my games / app want to work. I was also curious if there are ways to use Twisted with UDP, I actually thought/assumed there are. Then again, we have not tested yet for the relatively-low-latency networking need we have for a game now, will be interesting to see if TCP cuts it -- if not, there are existing libs that use UDP for these kinds of things too, which we can test, if TCP, and hence some of the existing simple tools, is too slow. I planned to test TCP with Tofu first (the twisted, but not pb?, using thing from the folks who make soya3d (oomadness)), and then perhaps look at Verse and/or VOB from interreality.org .. then again I should first check what game libs there are, do remember that there were some folks use in some SDL games *googles a bit so you dont have to teach me* uh well game networking library gives a lot now. Well, we'll proceed along that plan soon enough - am also interested to here and see how your things work. ~Toni - Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
hi not sure if directly related to this but I find OSC protocol very interesting to send info over the net, it was developed as a replacement of MIDI, but it is just a network protocol as far as i understand. There are python bindings and I did a layer around the original bindings to simplify the api as much as possible. http://www.ixi-software.net/content/download/simpleosc0.2.3.zip I cannot find a link to the original OSC.py but it is included in the zip above in case you want to work directly with the sockets, etc... enrike Phil Hassey(e)k dio: Another library worth considering is: http://pyraknet.slowchop.com/ - I haven't used it myself, but I've heard many good things about raknet. It's a networking library written primarily for games. ** Phil */Toni Alatalo [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Simon Wittber kirjoitti: I think that is a matter of one's perspective on what is 'nice'. sure seems like that. Also, I don't really think it is such a big project. I've built this sort of low level system before (using TCP instead of UDP) with higher level stuff to pass dictionaries around in network messages... and ok.. but, they end up being 10k code, and much less intrusive than the twisted reactor. (http://fibranet.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nanotubes.py) 'intrusive'? as in .. filesize? did not look at that code yet, will certainly check out, thanks for mentioning :) I also want to use UDP, so I have more opportunities to tweak my protocol to fit the way my games / app want to work. I was also curious if there are ways to use Twisted with UDP, I actually thought/assumed there are. Then again, we have not tested yet for the relatively-low-latency networking need we have for a game now, will be interesting to see if TCP cuts it -- if not, there are existing libs that use UDP for these kinds of things too, which we can test, if TCP, and hence some of the existing simple tools, is too slow. I planned to test TCP with Tofu first (the twisted, but not pb?, using thing from the folks who make soya3d (oomadness)), and then perhaps look at Verse and/or VOB from interreality.org .. then again I should first check what game libs there are, do remember that there were some folks use in some SDL games *googles a bit so you dont have to teach me* uh well game networking library gives a lot now. Well, we'll proceed along that plan soon enough - am also interested to here and see how your things work. ~Toni Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47094/*http://farechase.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTFicDJoNDllBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BHBvcwMxMwRzZWMDZ3JvdXBzBHNsawNlbWFpbC1uY20- with Yahoo! FareChase.
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
I was also curious if there are ways to use Twisted with UDP, I actually thought/assumed there are. You can do UDP with twisted, but it's extremely underdeveloped, if you have your heart set on UDP i'd probably suggest pretty much anything else. Nathan
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
There's also that P2P protocol in twisted I think. It has a Q in the name, but I can't find it or remember it. It is supposed to be able to handle things like NAT traversal too. On 6/6/07, 12 Dogs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was also curious if there are ways to use Twisted with UDP, I actually thought/assumed there are. You can do UDP with twisted, but it's extremely underdeveloped, if you have your heart set on UDP i'd probably suggest pretty much anything else. Nathan
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
I'm not sure this is true or not, but it's something I think is the case (untested)... It seems that running twisted in a separate thread would be better for keeping more consistent latency in networking. If you wanted to run your networking at different frequencies to the rest of your system. It seems that some of the time, this would be the case. Much like sound requires updating at different frequencies. Iterating it at eg. 72fps means that the quickest data can go out is at 1/72 messages per second? If you don't have a consistent frame rate, say a frame too 1/14th of a second because of some heavy graphics - then messages would only come out every 1/14th of a second. Whereas if you ran twisted in another thread it would be separate of those concerns - and could run at a different frequency. Maybe a lower frequency even. As a bonus all your networking stuff can be handled by a separate CPU/Core if available. Or am I way off here? Maybe it doesn't matter. On 6/6/07, Simon Wittber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Jones just mentioned to me off list how he is using twisted. (He is having issues with the mailing list). Using twisted like this is not intrusive, as it lets me keep control of the main loop. Thanks Richard! We've just run into this ourselves, but in our case integrating Twisted into a pyglet application (though not into its event system yet - just into the main loop). The docs are extremely sparse in this area, but the following is mostly working for us: reactor.startRunning(1) (or 0 if you don't want it to take over signals) while main_loop: reactor.iterate(0.01) then when you want to exit your program, use: reactor.stop(); reactor.iterate(0.01)
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
Perhaps useful. Seems like premature optimization to me though, and unlikely to gain enough to be worth the pain of dealing with threads. -Jasper René Dudfield wrote: I'm not sure this is true or not, but it's something I think is the case (untested)... It seems that running twisted in a separate thread would be better for keeping more consistent latency in networking. If you wanted to run your networking at different frequencies to the rest of your system. It seems that some of the time, this would be the case. Much like sound requires updating at different frequencies. Iterating it at eg. 72fps means that the quickest data can go out is at 1/72 messages per second? If you don't have a consistent frame rate, say a frame too 1/14th of a second because of some heavy graphics - then messages would only come out every 1/14th of a second. Whereas if you ran twisted in another thread it would be separate of those concerns - and could run at a different frequency. Maybe a lower frequency even. As a bonus all your networking stuff can be handled by a separate CPU/Core if available. Or am I way off here? Maybe it doesn't matter. On 6/6/07, Simon Wittber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Jones just mentioned to me off list how he is using twisted. (He is having issues with the mailing list). Using twisted like this is not intrusive, as it lets me keep control of the main loop. Thanks Richard! We've just run into this ourselves, but in our case integrating Twisted into a pyglet application (though not into its event system yet - just into the main loop). The docs are extremely sparse in this area, but the following is mostly working for us: reactor.startRunning(1) (or 0 if you don't want it to take over signals) while main_loop: reactor.iterate(0.01) then when you want to exit your program, use: reactor.stop(); reactor.iterate(0.01)
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
René Dudfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Iterating it at eg. 72fps means that the quickest data can go out is at 1/72 messages per second? You probably don't mean this - 1/72 messages per second is awfully slow. What I've done in situations like this before is to create an outgoing message queue - as my game loop generates information that needs to go out on the wire, it gets added to the queue. Then, after the game update, I do my network housekeeping, which sends each message from the queue out over the network. I also spend that time to pull all waiting traffic in off the net - could be zero, one, or many messages waiting to be processed inbound and outbound. If you don't have a consistent frame rate, say a frame too 1/14th of a second because of some heavy graphics - then messages would only come out every 1/14th of a second. Yeah, providing a queue permits spiky circumstances to be handled as soon as possible - though you may decide to limit the amount of traffic to move in or out. For example, if you get a LOT of network traffic all at once (a new player entering the game, sending out a lot of initial state information in a short period of time), it's possible that processing all of the waiting network messages in one frame could take too long, causing a visible frame rate drop. So, instead, you might wish to choose a maximum number of messages to process per frame. Whereas if you ran twisted in another thread it would be separate of those concerns - and could run at a different frequency. Maybe a lower frequency even. Yeah, the idea is tempting, but I'm nervous about multithreading, particularly making sure the threads communicate correctly. There are a number of approaches to getting that right (mutexes, lock free algorithms, channels), but that sort of thinking hurts my brain, and I write games to have fun. So I avoid threads unless they're far and away the best choice for the job. As a bonus all your networking stuff can be handled by a separate CPU/Core if available. That would be nice, but with current versions of Python (anything with a Global Interpreter Lock - see, for example http://docs.python.org/api/threads.html ), you're not going to get much concurrency on multicore machines. I'm not sure, maybe there's some benefit to be had with low-level networking I/O being processed independently, but the python code will all be serialized (i.e. not concurrent) because of that GIL. If multithreaded Python networking really excites you, I suggest you take a look at http://www.stackless.com - a modification of the Python interpreter which permits a lot of stuff that I find fascinating, but again, makes my brain hurt, so I've almost never tried to integrate the ideas with game development. I'm not saying threads can't be used to good effect, they just require my brain to stretch in ways it's not comfortable with. If they work for you, that's great. -Dave LeCompte
[pygame] pygame networking redux
I've finally got some time to spend on building something useful for
pygame networking.
I've had a look at the latest Twisted (2.5), and it seems that there
is no longer any support for integrating the twisted event loop with
pygame. Bah.
Anyhow, I figure there is enough brains on this list for us to nut
something out, which is simple, and works on a variety of platforms.
So... if anyone is interested in helping out, please throw your 2c in.
I've attached my first thoughts in two .py files.
interface.py contains basic UDP class, and also contains classes
specific for each platform. (At this stage I'm not interested in
dealing with TCP connections)
pygnet.py contains a class for detecting missing packets in a
sequence, on a channel.
My idea is to build up layers of reliability using class inheritance,
so you can pick the class you need for the type of data you want to
send...
Once all this low-level stuff is done, we could add lobby systems,
score systems etc which are fairly generic and easily used across
different games/apps.
Anyone interested?
--
:: Simon Wittber
:: http://www.linkedin.com/in/simonwittber
:: phone: +61.4.0135.0685
:: jabber/msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
from socket import socket, AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, error
import sys
MAX_PACKET_SIZE = 1024
class BaseUDPInterface(object):
def __init__(self, address):
self.socket = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM)
self.socket.bind(address)
self.socket.setblocking(0)
def handle_error(self, e):
pass
def handle_recv(self, address, packet):
pass
def poll(self):
try:
packet, address = self.socket.recvfrom(MAX_PACKET_SIZE)
except error, e:
self.handle_error(e)
else:
self.handle_recv(address, packet)
def send(self, address, packet):
try:
self.socket.sendto(packet, address)
except error, e:
self.handle_error(e)
if sys.platform[:5] == 'linux':
class UDPInterface(BaseUDPInterface):
def handle_error(self, e):
pass
elif sys.platform[:3] == 'win':
class UDPInterface(BaseUDPInterface):
def handle_error(self, e):
pass
import struct
from interface import UDPInterface
class UnreliableInterface(UDPInterface):
def __init__(self, *args, **kw):
UDPInterface.__init__(self, *args, **kw)
self.outbound_channels = {}
self.inbound_channels = {}
def dispatch(self, channel, address, data):
pass
def send(self, address, channel, data):
seq_id = self.outbound_channels.get(channel, 0)
self.outbound_channels[channel] = seq_id + 1
packet = struct.pack(!ii, channel, seq_id) + data
UDPInterface.send(self, address, packet)
def handle_missing(self, recieved_id, expected_id):
pass
def handle_recv(self, address, data):
channel, seq_id = struct.unpack(!ii, data[:8])
expected_seq_id = self.inbound_channels.get(channel, 0)
if seq_id != expected_seq_id:
self.handle_missing(seq_id, expected_seq_id)
self.inbound_channels[channel] = seq_id + 1
data = data[8:]
self.dispatch(channel, address, data)
class ReliableInterface(UnreliableInterface):
This class needs to track sent packets, handle resend conditions etc.
pass
if __name__ == __main__:
s = UnreliableInterface(('127.0.0.1',1999))
c = UnreliableInterface(('127.0.0.1',1992))
for i in xrange(1000):
s.send(('127.0.0.1',1992), 0, 'blah'*1000)
s.poll()
c.poll()
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
I've had a look at the latest Twisted (2.5), and it seems that there is no longer any support for integrating the twisted event loop with pygame. Bah. () Once all this low-level stuff is done, we could add lobby systems, score systems etc which are fairly generic and easily used across different games/apps. I'm not so sure I understand what you want your self-made lowlevel classes to do, but I have been using twisteds perspective broker (sort of RPC) for all my networking needs. I made a NetworkController class that works with PB calls and feeds the network-events into the local event queue not truely into the real pygame-event-queue, but I guess that wouldn't be too tough to extend. I apologize if I totally misunderstood what you are trying to do but working with sockets is bäähh, I'd rather build on twisted for any networking needs. greetings
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
ba:a:hh ??? I play on SimonW's bah in german... the : should be on top of the a if you email client supports it :-)
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
On 6/5/07, Simon Oberhammer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I apologize if I totally misunderstood what you are trying to do but working with sockets is bäähh, I'd rather build on twisted for any networking needs. I'm still undecided on Twisted. I haven't done any serious work with it since 1.3. Looking at the current docs however, I can't see how to iterate the pygame event queue at the same time as run the reactor.run() call. How do you process your pygame event queue? -- :: Simon Wittber :: http://www.linkedin.com/in/simonwittber :: phone: +61.4.0135.0685 :: jabber/msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
Don't know if this will be helpful, but a while ago i started writing a lemmings clone using twisted for networking. the file in question is available here: http://thescarydoor.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/default.py i didn't have much problems with the twisted loop and the event code, i just didn't use the event loop. The only other option is to use twisted in a second thread which can get a little messy but not too bad as it's just 1 thread. Nathan On 6/5/07, Simon Wittber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/5/07, Simon Oberhammer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I apologize if I totally misunderstood what you are trying to do but working with sockets is bäähh, I'd rather build on twisted for any networking needs. I'm still undecided on Twisted. I haven't done any serious work with it since 1.3. Looking at the current docs however, I can't see how to iterate the pygame event queue at the same time as run the reactor.run() call. How do you process your pygame event queue? -- :: Simon Wittber :: http://www.linkedin.com/in/simonwittber :: phone: +61.4.0135.0685 :: jabber/msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [pygame] pygame networking redux
Simon Wittber wrote: Ah I can see how you solved the problem: def main(self): self.checkEvents(pygame.event.get()) ... snip lots of code ... #come back here at a rate of approx 30fps reactor.callLater(0.03, self.main) Basically you asked twisted to call your function, and when your function finishes, you ask twisted to call it again. I'd prefer not to use twisted this way. It turns what should be a simple, tight inner loop into a function call which has to work its way through twisted's scheduling mechanics for every frame. -Sw. This is essentially what I do, yielding 60 frames/second of 3D and animation without any trouble. I don't think the twisted overhead is as big as you fear, and it's definitely several orders of magnitude nicer than dealing with low level networking protocols. It has been easily fast enough, Perspective Broker saved me from (re)writing tons of code, and I've undoubtedly avoided plenty of nasty networking bugs as well. What would you hope to gain by rolling your own networking code? -Jasper
Re: [pygame] Re: pygame networking
Hello, You can't kill a thread in python. Check out the sockets page in the docs for some ways around blocking. http://docs.python.org/lib/socket-objects.html There's some options on python sockets for settimeout, and setblocking. So you can use non blocking stuff inside a thread too. For debugging threaded programs it is useful to be able to run all of the code within one thread if possible. That way you can take the threading issues out of the debugging. As with one thread, your program is serial again. Check out flup for one example of a threaded server... http://svn.saddi.com/flup/ It uses a threadpool. On 6/6/06, Bryce Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have Trac/svn for my pygame networking project, courtesy of webfaction.com. Here is the URL: http://pygamenetworking.python-hosting.com I haven't had much time to work on the project, but I did post some code. At the moment I'm trying to figure out how to properly kill off a thread that's blocking on socket calls. Does anyone have a simple example of threading with the python socket API? Thanks, Bryce
