Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair working for the French??

[P Witte]

ZN writes:

<>
> computing in a better way, with Citroen you get to preach that there are
> better ways to drive around on 4 (and actually, even 3 - some will work
> without one rear) wheels!

Dont I know! Once, driving with a friend in his ancient Citroen D model in
Africa somewhere, I saw this single wheel overtaking us on the left. We only
realised it was ours later, when we stopped to take a look at it!

Per

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair working for the French??

[Bill Waugh]

- Original Message -
From: "Tony Firshman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Oddly enough on the way back from the recent Eindhoven QL show, a
> Citroen in front of us had a flat tyre and diesel was pouring out of it.

No wonder it went flat, filling it with diesel, was it some kind of reserve
tank then? (;-)

> I pumped it up for him - but I see he could have driven without it (8-)#
>
> Great when they go well of course (8-)#
>
All the best - Bill

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair working for the French??

[Tony Firshman]

On  Tue, 9 Apr 2002 at 11:04:48, ZN wrote:
(ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)

>On 09/04/02 at 14:31 Claude Mourier 00 wrote:
>
>>> Clive Sinclair working for the French??
>>> I know that Sir Clive's skills lay in other places other than
>>> marketing, but has he sold out to the french I wonder??
>>> Just that I saw a TV advert last night for a Citreon C5
>
>>As always Sir Clive was a precursor : others take advantage of his
>>technology. Merge two C5 (4 wheels) and add a motor and you get
>>something that can earn money ;-)
>
>Citroen C5 has nothing to do with Sinclair, though I am sure their
>marketing department must have been caugh unaware by the history of that
>'name' in the UK. The Cit C5 is named after it's pre (pre-pre-pre) decessor
>from the 1920s.
>Now if you don't mind, stop knocking down my favorite car manufacturer ;-)
>who actually has a lot in common with the QL, in philosophical ways.
>Although, I will be the first to acknowledge, Citroens can be a pain in the
>a... khm, neck when there is a problem, but when it all works, it's
>amazing. Just like with the QL, where you have to seek converts to
>computing in a better way, with Citroen you get to preach that there are
>better ways to drive around on 4 (and actually, even 3 - some will work
>without one rear) wheels!

Oddly enough on the way back from the recent Eindhoven QL show, a
Citroen in front of us had a flat tyre and diesel was pouring out of it.
I pumped it up for him - but I see he could have driven without it (8-)#

Great when they go well of course (8-)#
-- 
 QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255
  tony@,demon.co.uk  http://www.firshman.demon.co.uk
   Voice: +44(0)1442-828254   Fax: +44(0)1442-828255
TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG

RE: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair working for the French??

[ZN]

On 09/04/02 at 14:31 Claude Mourier 00 wrote:

>> Clive Sinclair working for the French??
>> I know that Sir Clive's skills lay in other places other than
>> marketing, but has he sold out to the french I wonder??
>> Just that I saw a TV advert last night for a Citreon C5

>As always Sir Clive was a precursor : others take advantage of his
>technology. Merge two C5 (4 wheels) and add a motor and you get
>something that can earn money ;-)

Citroen C5 has nothing to do with Sinclair, though I am sure their
marketing department must have been caugh unaware by the history of that
'name' in the UK. The Cit C5 is named after it's pre (pre-pre-pre) decessor
from the 1920s.
Now if you don't mind, stop knocking down my favorite car manufacturer ;-)
who actually has a lot in common with the QL, in philosophical ways.
Although, I will be the first to acknowledge, Citroens can be a pain in the
a... khm, neck when there is a problem, but when it all works, it's
amazing. Just like with the QL, where you have to seek converts to
computing in a better way, with Citroen you get to preach that there are
better ways to drive around on 4 (and actually, even 3 - some will work
without one rear) wheels!

Nasta

RE: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair working for the French??

[Claude Mourier 00]

As 
always Sir Clive was a precursor : others take advantage of his 
technology.
 
Merge two C5 (4 wheels) and add a motor and you 
get something that can earn money ;-)

  -Message d'origine-De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Envoyé : mardi 9 avril 2002 
  14:27À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]Objet : 
  [ql-users] Clive Sinclair working for the French??I know that Sir Clive's skills lay in other 
  places other than marketing, but has he sold out to the french I 
  wonder??Just that I saw a TV advert last night for a Citreon 
  C5    :-ORich Mellor RWAP Software7 Common 
  Road, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JRTEL: 01977 
  614299http://hometown.aol.co.uk/rwapsoftware

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Malcolm Cadman]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes

>> B. Wrong. It refers to a bigger microdrive like device,
>> with magnetic tape. The same infinite tape trick as in microdrive, no
>> rewind needed. It was the alternative to floppy. (or the evolution of
>> classical tape).
>
>ZN wrote:-
>
>>Bzzz - you are both wrong!
>>First, it was not a tape. Do not confuse WM with something that was a
>tape,
>>
>>loop tapes similar to microdrives just much larger (they looked
>>
>>know, they never made it to the QL, and that's a good thing too.
>
>
>Bzzz.. Spot on, Nasta.
>
>I still have a wafadrive with my Spectrum and several dozen tapes. They
>were made by Rotronics, and I bought mine new. Still have the original
>packaging and the lot. They are a little smaller than a standard audio
>tape, in fact they were often sold in blank audio cassette boxes instead of
>a custom made container for them. I even have some commercial software I
>bought on wafadrive!!

So, what was ( is ) the performance like ... ?

Keep the whole lot as you have a 'collectors' item :-)

-- 
Malcolm Cadman

RE: Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Darren . Branagh]

   

"ZN"   

   cc:   

Sent by: Subject:     RE: Re: [ql-users] Clive 
Sinclair
owner-ql-users@nv  

g.ntnu.no  

   

   

19/10/2001 17:07   

Please respond to  

ql-users   

   

   








>> Wafer memory...

> "Wafer Scale Integration" I believe he referred to it as at the time.
> An ambitious project back then (maybe even today) because it requires
> flawless wafer sized pieces of silicon.  Even though silicon is the
> earth's most abundant (or second or whatever) element, the cost of
> fabrication of silicon integrated circuits is related to the yield of
> working chips from each wafer. Even some of those that fail to make the
> grade can sometimes pass at lower clock rates and can be marked and
> sold as lower spec.  With wafer scale, it's all or nothing. The
> rejection rate must be huge, and that is probably what ate most of his
> investment in plant - the production of flawless silicon wafers.

> B. Wrong. It refers to a bigger microdrive like device,
> with magnetic tape. The same infinite tape trick as in microdrive, no
> rewind needed. It was the alternative to floppy. (or the evolution of
> classical tape).

ZN wrote:-

>Bzzz - you are both wrong!
>First, it was not a tape. Do not confuse WM with something that was a
tape,
>
>loop tapes similar to microdrives just much larger (they looked
>
>know, they never made it to the QL, and that's a good thing too.


Bzzz.. Spot on, Nasta.

I still have a wafadrive with my Spectrum and several dozen tapes. They
were made by Rotronics, and I bought mine new. Still have the original
packaging and the lot. They are a little smaller than a standard audio
tape, in fact they were often sold in blank audio cassette boxes instead of
a custom made container for them. I even have some commercial software I
bought on wafadrive!!

Cheers,

Darren.












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Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Marcel Kilgus]

ZN wrote: 
> I wonder what happened to Sinclair's asynchronous microprocessor.
> That would have been a great project too, especially since some
> people at the Frauenhoffer isntitute (IIRC) developed it quite far,
> using self-handshake logic instead of clocked logic.

The University of Manchester developed an ARM compatible processor
using asynchronous logic, the Amulet2e. The last thing I heard of it
that they were going to develop the Amulet3 for industrial production.
But that was 1999, I don't know what happened to it.
Another project is (was?) the Japanese TITAC-2 which is a sort of MIPS
clone (not fully compatible).

Marcel

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[ZN]

On 10/19/01 at 8:39 PM Malcolm Cadman wrote:

>>The wafer technology was of course based on chip technology and design
and
>>testing procedures of the time. Today it would actually be easyer to
>>produce them...

>Very interesting, Nasta.  As you say the technology is always moving on,
>and what was 'difficult' to achieve 10 to 15 years ago, is now everyday
>technology.
>So, the patents for Sinclairs' version of 'wafers' has long since gone
>to other companies ?

Probably. I learned from Catt's page that they went back to the bank, who
no doubt sold them somewhere to make money off of them to pay the debts.
Speaking of various interesting technologies, I wonder what happened to
Sinclair's asynchronous microprocessor. That would have been a great
project too, especially since some people at the Frauenhoffer isntitute
(IIRC) developed it quite far, using self-handshake logic instead of
clocked logic.

Nasta

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Malcolm Cadman]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tony Firshman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>On  Fri, 19 Oct 2001 at 16:10:20,  Jerome Grimbert wrote:
>(ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] makes some magical things to make me read
>>} > Wafer memory...
>>} "Wafer Scale Integration" I believe he referred to it as at the time.
>>
>>B. Wrong. It refers to a bigger microdrive like device, with magnetic
>>tape. The same infinite tape trick as in microdrive, no rewind needed.
>>It was the alternative to floppy. (or the evolution of classical tape).
>
>
>Ian was right - Sinclair was definitely developing a wafer chip - or 
>whatever the name was.
>
>The thought was also that being so large, it could incorporate parallel 
>logic.  The idea behind this was that if there were faulty logic paths 
>in production, then others could take over.
>
> or maybe other logic paths could be created to bypass faulty 
>sections.
>
>Even with current low cost silicon, there is still a high rejection 
>rate.
>
>That, as was said , cannot be afforded with a bigger chip.

At the time, it was one of those technical 'glitches' that held a great
idea back. Had he ( Sinclair ) been successful, he would have made far
more millions than he ever did with computers, and his numerous other
inventions ( anyone got a figure on how many inventions ... ? ).

Probably at some time in the future fabrication techniques for silicon
'wafers' will improve so much that this 'glitch' will be overcome.

Then again other technologies come along too, with even more potential.

Does anyone know if he still holds the patents ?

-- 
Malcolm Cadman

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Malcolm Cadman]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, ZN
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes

< Big snip :-) >

>The wafer technology was of course based on chip technology and design and
>testing procedures of the time. Today it would actually be easyer to
>produce them as things like mid-process testing, late stage metalization,
>flash memory, entifuses etc. are well suited and well known technologies
>for wafer scale integration. Originally, Catt intended this to be a
>(parallel) computer on a wafer (in fact, his 'spiral' patent was later
>superceeded by something called the 'kernel machine'). Memory was initially
>intended as a 'back door' to peddle the concept and bring it to a mass
>market. Today, using it as solid state memory would actually immediately
>find a market in various devices that use flash chips.

Very interesting, Nasta.  As you say the technology is always moving on,
and what was 'difficult' to achieve 10 to 15 years ago, is now everyday
technology.

So, the patents for Sinclairs' version of 'wafers' has long since gone
to other companies ?

-- 
Malcolm Cadman

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Malcolm Cadman]

In article <3BD046D3.18653.10B3805@localhost>, Wolfgang Lenerz
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>On 17 Oct 2001, at 20:07, Malcolm Cadman wrote:
>
>> Also, do not forget that the first microdrives were intended to be only
>> the start of a whole range of innovative new ways for mass storage.
>> Clive subsequently 'lost' a lot of his 'millions' investing in plant and
>> research to produce new devices that would have developed and owned, and
>> sold to the world.
>Wafer memory...

Yes ... it did prove to be 'wafer thin' ... :-)

Although IBM have now got a mass storage device out called a
'microdrive', too.

-- 
Malcolm Cadman

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[ZN]

> Even with current low cost silicon, there is still a high rejection 
> rate. That, as was said , cannot be afforded with a bigger chip.

Actually, bigger chips increase the number of rejects incredibly. The
reason is very simple: the basic idea behind chips in most cases relies on
all chip components being operational, i.e. there is no fault tolerance.
There are some exceptions, though, see below.

Take a silicon wafer. Now immagine there are specks of unusable silicon,
say a couple of um across randomly distributed with a density of one on
every 2 square cm. There are two factors that govern the yield:
1) size of geometry - if this is >> than the size of the anomaly, there is
a good chance an anomaly will only produce a degraded component, not a
completely faulty one. However, today, almost all geometry used is far
smaller than the sizes of the anomalies, so we run into problem:
2) size of the chip. Obviously, if the chip size is >2cm square,
statistically ALL of them will have a fault, i.e. yield will be 0. As the
chip gets smaller, somewhere around half of the 2cm square area, the yield
suddenly goes up quickly. For very small chips, the number of failures
approaches area_of_anomaly/area_of_wafer * 100 in %, i.e. the yield becomes
virtually 100%. This is why small signal transistors, having a very small
die, cost pennies, but a CPU that has a die of 100 times the size, does not
cost 100 pennies - all sorts of additional processing are necessary to even
get >0 yield on these, and it has to be payed for.
In reality, anomalies on silicon are not the only problem, there is a vast
number of different pollutants that can affect the process of making a
chip, but the basic behaviour is the same. This is why chip prices are
extremely dependant on chip size, and why all the manufacturers try to
squeeze the size of the die down as much as possible.

This problem first became evident with memory, as these were traditionally
the largest chips. For a long time it held back the jump from 64k bits to
256k bits for dynamic RAM. Finally, someone figured out that providing
extra RAM 'rows' that were programmable will include a dose of fault
tolerance. However, this came at a price - traditionally, with a shrinkage
of geometry, comes a corresponding shrinkage of delays, i.e. speed
increases. But since the 256kb DRAM needed 'programmable' rather than fixed
row decoders, some of the speed benefit was lost, so the 256kb DRAM chips
were of the same speed grade as 64kb chis available earlyer, so one speed
grade jump was 'missed'. Today all memory produced has some fault
tolerance, it is tested and then appropriately programmed at the factory.
Furthermore, even CPUs have a dose of fault tolerance. It is mostly evident
with chips that come in different falvours, such as different speed grades,
or cache sizes (an asside: being memory, most caches in todays big CPUs
also have 'extra' memory cells to provide fault tolerance, or, in some
cases, error detection and correction schemes). This same problem reared
it's head in the manufacture of active matrix LCDs, which are the most
extreme form of a chip - the size of the whole screen. Cost effective sizes
ginally jumped from about 9" diagonal to more once they figured out how to
make the displays line by line - the lines are produced on a drum and
'stuck onto' the glass, one by one. They are tested as they get stuck, and
if found defective, the whole line is scrubbed off, then replaced by a new
one from the drum - instead of throwing the whle screen away. In parallel
with these technology, material technology advances also, so as time goes
by, and prodcts mature, they actually move downwards in the technology
chain. For instance, to get the first 15" LCDs, the drum technology was
required. Advances in materials made it possible to produce 15" screens
using traditional technology today, but at the same time, combined with the
drum thing, now you can make 19" screens.

Nasta

RE: Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[ZN]

>> Wafer memory...

> "Wafer Scale Integration" I believe he referred to it as at the time.  
> An ambitious project back then (maybe even today) because it requires 
> flawless wafer sized pieces of silicon.  Even though silicon is the 
> earth's most abundant (or second or whatever) element, the cost of 
> fabrication of silicon integrated circuits is related to the yield of 
> working chips from each wafer. Even some of those that fail to make the 
> grade can sometimes pass at lower clock rates and can be marked and 
> sold as lower spec.  With wafer scale, it's all or nothing. The 
> rejection rate must be huge, and that is probably what ate most of his 
> investment in plant - the production of flawless silicon wafers.

> B. Wrong. It refers to a bigger microdrive like device,
> with magnetic tape. The same infinite tape trick as in microdrive, no
> rewind needed. It was the alternative to floppy. (or the evolution of
> classical tape).

Bzzz - you are both wrong!
First, it was not a tape. Do not confuse WM with something that was a tape,
called Wafadrive or Waferdrive, which was made for the Spectrum. It had
loop tapes similar to microdrives just much larger (they looked
suspiciously like a cut down version of an US 8-track tape). As far as I
know, they never made it to the QL, and that's a good thing too.
As for WM requiring a flawless wafer of silicon, this is not true either.
The whole project at Sinclir started when Sir Clive bought the patent
rights for WSI from a rather strange individual by the name of Ivor Catt,
and hired him as a consultant. Although Ivor Catt is a rather cranky and
dissilusioned (to the point of paranoya) man who calls himself a
'technocrat', who has rather interesting ideas about transmission lines, he
can very well be considered the worlds authority on WSI, in fact he wrote
at least one book on the subject (I actually read it), along with several
other books. The technology used by SRL would have been a patent called
'Catt Spiral' (the explanation can be found in the aforementioned book).
However, all of this was in 1985/6, and we all know that a lot of rather
bad things happened in the UK computer industry during that time, and in
the several years that followed. Here are links to a couple of articles on
the subject:

http://www.electromagnetism.demon.co.uk/z005.htm
http://www.electromagnetism.demon.co.uk/rh25cbl.htm

Catt's patent addresses technologies used to circumvent flaws on wafers,
which are not only common, but appear on 99.99% of all wafers, based on the
idea to provide access points along the wafer edge, and have the chips
themselves connect together using fuse technology similar to what is used
in old programmable logic chips, once at least one working chip is found at
the edge of the wafer. Strictly speaking, Sinclair Research had only a
short time with this project before it was sold off to Amstrad, providing a
'venue' to employ the worlds first mass-produced wafer memory in, that
being the QL. Typicall of Sinclair (and I dare say of the UK computer
industy - of which almost none remains today as the eventual result!), the
signifficance of a successful WSI project, after many multinational
corporations already poured billions into failed attempts, was not
recognized. At SRL it only went as far to create a new company called
Anamartic. Eventually, the patent rights which were used as securities for
Sinclair's loans reverted to the bank. Even so, after a comparatively small
investment of about 30M$, they came up with a working product, which was
used in machines by Tandem. Even so, as it's obvious today, wafers never
made it to the mass market, but when I last looked (somewhere in the mid
1990s), they were made by Fujitsu (it is possible the patents were acquired
through ICL who was one of the investors in Anamartic) - as solid state
memory for special applications (read: military, black box recorders, etc).
For a while they did offer 20 and 40MB solid state hard drives based on the
technology (around about 1985/6), don't ask about the price!

The wafer technology was of course based on chip technology and design and
testing procedures of the time. Today it would actually be easyer to
produce them as things like mid-process testing, late stage metalization,
flash memory, entifuses etc. are well suited and well known technologies
for wafer scale integration. Originally, Catt intended this to be a
(parallel) computer on a wafer (in fact, his 'spiral' patent was later
superceeded by something called the 'kernel machine'). Memory was initially
intended as a 'back door' to peddle the concept and bring it to a mass
market. Today, using it as solid state memory would actually immediately
find a market in various devices that use flash chips.

Nasta

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Tony Firshman]

On  Fri, 19 Oct 2001 at 16:10:20,  Jerome Grimbert wrote:
(ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)

>[EMAIL PROTECTED] makes some magical things to make me read
>} > Wafer memory...
>} "Wafer Scale Integration" I believe he referred to it as at the time.
>
>B. Wrong. It refers to a bigger microdrive like device, with magnetic
>tape. The same infinite tape trick as in microdrive, no rewind needed.
>It was the alternative to floppy. (or the evolution of classical tape).


Ian was right - Sinclair was definitely developing a wafer chip - or 
whatever the name was.

The thought was also that being so large, it could incorporate parallel 
logic.  The idea behind this was that if there were faulty logic paths 
in production, then others could take over.

 or maybe other logic paths could be created to bypass faulty 
sections.

Even with current low cost silicon, there is still a high rejection 
rate.

That, as was said , cannot be afforded with a bigger chip.

-- 
QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.firshman.demon.co.uk
 Voice: +44(0)1442-828254  Fax: +44(0)1442-828255
   TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG

RE: Re: Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Ian . Pine]

Oops. Then the wafer memory was not the same thing as the wafer-scale 
integration, but I definitely remember him talking about that too. :)

Ian.

> -Original Message-
> From: jerome.grimbert 
> Sent: 19 October 2001 15:10
> To: ql-users
> Cc: jerome.grimbert
> Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] makes some magical things to make me read
> } > Wafer memory...
> } "Wafer Scale Integration" I believe he referred to it as at 
> the time.  
> 
> B. Wrong. It refers to a bigger microdrive like device, 
> with magnetic
> tape. The same infinite tape trick as in microdrive, no rewind needed.
> It was the alternative to floppy. (or the evolution of 
> classical tape).
> 


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Re: Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Jerome Grimbert]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] makes some magical things to make me read
} > Wafer memory...
} "Wafer Scale Integration" I believe he referred to it as at the time.  

B. Wrong. It refers to a bigger microdrive like device, with magnetic
tape. The same infinite tape trick as in microdrive, no rewind needed.
It was the alternative to floppy. (or the evolution of classical tape).

RE: Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Ian . Pine]

> Wafer memory...
"Wafer Scale Integration" I believe he referred to it as at the time.  
An ambitious project back then (maybe even today) because it requires 
flawless wafer sized pieces of silicon.  Even though silicon is the 
earth's most abundant (or second or whatever) element, the cost of 
fabrication of silicon integrated circuits is related to the yield of 
working chips from each wafer. Even some of those that fail to make the 
grade can sometimes pass at lower clock rates and can be marked and 
sold as lower spec.  With wafer scale, it's all or nothing. The 
rejection rate must be huge, and that is probably what ate most of his 
investment in plant - the production of flawless silicon wafers.

Ian.

> -Original Message-
> From: wlenerz 
> Sent: 19 October 2001 14:29
> To: ql-users
> Cc: wlenerz
> Subject: Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair
> 
> 
> On 17 Oct 2001, at 20:07, Malcolm Cadman wrote:
> 
> > Also, do not forget that the first microdrives were 
> intended to be only
> > the start of a whole range of innovative new ways for mass storage.
> > Clive subsequently 'lost' a lot of his 'millions' investing 
> in plant and
> > research to produce new devices that would have developed 
> and owned, and
> > sold to the world.
> Wafer memory...
> 
> wolfgang
> -
> www.wlenerz.com
> 


Visit our website at http://www.ubswarburg.com

This message contains confidential information and is intended only 
for the individual named.  If you are not the named addressee you 
should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.  Please 
notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this 
e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.

E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free 
as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, 
arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses.  The sender therefore 
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents 
of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.  If 
verification is required please request a hard-copy version.  This 
message is provided for informational purposes and should not be 
construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or 
related financial instruments.

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Wolfgang Lenerz]

On 17 Oct 2001, at 20:07, Malcolm Cadman wrote:

> Also, do not forget that the first microdrives were intended to be only
> the start of a whole range of innovative new ways for mass storage.
> Clive subsequently 'lost' a lot of his 'millions' investing in plant and
> research to produce new devices that would have developed and owned, and
> sold to the world.
Wafer memory...

wolfgang
-
www.wlenerz.com

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Dilwyn Jones]

>>May be worth following up just what the QL2 was going to be
(probably
>>like a Thor). I was sent a copy of the Tyche Rom which is
>>partly, but not fully compatible, with QL ROMs. Can't remember the
>>name of the company embedded in the code though - I think it was
>>Sirius Cybernetics. The ROM itself was a 64K unit.

>Hmmm I wonder if the ROM will work with uQLx or another QL emulator
:-)
>Care to send it?
OK, wll send it privately to avoid binaries on this list, so you can
est it on an emulator. I couldn't get it to work with QLay, but...
--
Dilwyn Jones
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.soft.net.uk/dj/index.html

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Phoebus Dokos]

At 06:55 ìì 18/10/2001 +0100, you wrote:

> >I am pretty sure that Sinclair also developed a few prototypes for
> >internal testing, etc, that included disk drives ... although whether
> >they were 'working' ones, or just 'dummies' I couldn't say.
> >
> >I will try and check this out sometime, as I still know the
>industrial
> >designer who worked on the QL project for Sinclair.
>
>May be worth following up just what the QL2 was going to be (probably
>like a Thor). I was sent a copy of the Tyche Rom which is
>partly, but not fully compatible, with QL ROMs. Can't remember the
>name of the company embedded in the code though - I think it was
>Sirius Cybernetics. The ROM itself was a 64K unit.
>
>
>--
>Dilwyn Jones
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.soft.net.uk/dj/index.html

Hmmm I wonder if the ROM will work with uQLx or another QL emulator :-) 
Care to send it?

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Dilwyn Jones]

>I am pretty sure that Sinclair also developed a few prototypes for
>internal testing, etc, that included disk drives ... although whether
>they were 'working' ones, or just 'dummies' I couldn't say.
>
>I will try and check this out sometime, as I still know the
industrial
>designer who worked on the QL project for Sinclair.

May be worth following up just what the QL2 was going to be (probably
like a Thor). I was sent a copy of the Tyche Rom which is
partly, but not fully compatible, with QL ROMs. Can't remember the
name of the company embedded in the code though - I think it was
Sirius Cybernetics. The ROM itself was a 64K unit.


--
Dilwyn Jones
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.soft.net.uk/dj/index.html

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Phoebus Dokos]

At 11:06 ìì 17/10/2001 +0100, you wrote:
>>This is probably an apocraphal (is this spelled right Geoff ?) story but I
>>like it.
>>
>>
>>---^
>>Apocryphal (Apo = From, Crypto/Crypho = Hidden ;-)
>>
>>Elementary Dr. Wood :-)
>>
>>Phoebus
>I think it was the 'crap' element that attracted me to that spelling. As 
>in From Crap Hal ! but I must admit that I have only thought this up as an 
>afterthought.
>--

Hmmm as we say in Greece "After Christ everyone can be a prophet" ;-)


>Roy Wood
>Q Branch
>20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex BN41 2LB
>Tel : +44(0)1273-386030 / Mobile : +44 (0) 7836-745501
>Fax +44 (0)1273-381577
>web site : http://www.qbranch.demon.co.uk/

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Q Branch]

>This is probably an apocraphal (is this spelled right Geoff ?) story but I
>like it.
>
>
>---^
>Apocryphal (Apo = From, Crypto/Crypho = Hidden ;-)
>
>Elementary Dr. Wood :-)
>
>Phoebus
I think it was the 'crap' element that attracted me to that spelling. As 
in From Crap Hal ! but I must admit that I have only thought this up as 
an afterthought.
-- 

Roy Wood
Q Branch
20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex BN41 2LB
Tel : +44(0)1273-386030 / Mobile : +44 (0) 7836-745501
Fax +44 (0)1273-381577
web site : http://www.qbranch.demon.co.uk/

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Q Branch]

>Last year I saw a QL with a 3.5 inch disk drive in place of the
>microdrives, not sure if it was Alex Wells at a Quanta workshop? It
>was mentioned in QL Tady at some point but a quick scan through failed
>to find.
>
>It definitely can be done with patience and dexterity.
Keith Mitchell did it ages ago  and you should really see some of Roger 
Godley's creations. Two QL cases joined together with Hard drives, 
Quibides Syquest, Romdisq and everything imaginable. I have been try to 
persuade him  to write it up for QL Toady
-- 

Roy Wood
Q Branch
20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex BN41 2LB
Tel : +44(0)1273-386030 / Mobile : +44 (0) 7836-745501
Fax +44 (0)1273-381577
web site : http://www.qbranch.demon.co.uk/

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair innovations (and errors)

[Arnould Nazarian]

: I will try and check this out sometime, as I still know the industrial
: designer who worked on the QL project for Sinclair.
:
: --
: Malcolm Cadman

About innovations at Sinclair Research, TT once told me this interesting
story.

They wanted to develop a pointing device at the beginning, before mice
became standard.

So they imagined a pen on a rubber surface. Under this rubber surface a
electrically
conductive layer for sensing coordinates with the pen into one direction,
then a very thin
insulating layer and again a electrically conductive layer to sense
coordinates into the
second direction.

They had very big difficulties with the isolating material between the 2
conductive ones. It had to be very thin in order to allow easy navigation
and yet to isolate, or there could be interferences. TT was in charge of
this, and he found the solution in a sex shop: he ended up using very light
tissues also used by men and women for other purposes. And he got an
interesting reputation inside Sinclair Research!

The pity of this story: Sinclair Research took a patent for this system
which now seems to be widely used in portable PCs, but alas they never paid
to keep the patent alive...

Arnould

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Malcolm Cadman]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tarquin Mills
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Malcolm Cadman wrote:
>>Peter Graf wrote:
>>>Tony wrote:
>>>
Microdrives especially killed the QL. He tried to push the speed up to
100k - and they never worked reliably.  Unfortunately, the 3.5 disks at
the time were simply too large and power hungry.
If only...
>>>
>>>..the QL would have been more successful than the Macintosh, there'd be
>>>a million active QL users, and Motorola would be producing 3rd generation
>>>850 MHz 68060 CPU's ;-)
>> 
>>A floppy disk drive would certainly have made it more successful - if
>>people would have been prepared to pay for it.  Around 1/3 to 2/3 again
>>added to the selling price ?
>> 
>>I remember my first double disk drives for QL were around 200ukp, and
>>then there was the disk interface too :-(
>  In 1987/88 the Amiga A500 and Atari ST took off and went on to sell in
>the millions. Amstrad (Alan Sugar himself) said who wants a 16 bit
>computer, as a child reading computer magazines and looking at the
>graphics of the 68K based machines I knew why. I wanted one to replace
>my ZX-Spectrum. I fell Amstrad missed a opportunity to repacked to the
>QL in the same form and do the same as Commodore and Atari. I.e. add a
>normal keyboard, a 3.5" disc drive, upgrade the processor to a 68000 and
>most important of all add better graphics. As the QL with (QDOS) already
>existed (with an user and software base) it would have saved development
>time. Amstrad position is made more understandable by the quality of the
>CPC and his PC strategy. While on the subject of not created computers,
>Oric developed a 68K computer but could not get to work (see 
>http://freespace.virgin.net/james.groom/oric/oricfaq.htm). Then their
>was the Spectrum Loki. 

You are right, Tarquin, that was a really important time when Alan Sugar
/ Amstrad took over the rights to the Sinclair / QL.

If he / Amstrad had properly 'revamped' the QL, he would have had a very
competitive product in the personal computer market at that time.  He
could have sold a million or two ...

Yet AS is ( was ) a hard nosed business man, he ( quite rightly as
history now shows ) saw that PC's were the 'mass' market way to go.
Where are 'personal computers' now ? ... on the margins.  The market is
dominated by mass produced PC's ( alias business / home machines ).

Does anyone know how many millions of PC's have been sold, and how much
money has been generated by the PC Market in hardware / software, etc ?

So, AS was right to make the decision not to develop the QL !  Only his
own efforts with PC's eventually came to a halt some time later too :-)

-- 
Malcolm Cadman

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Malcolm Cadman]

In message <00ae01c1570c$3550db00$c7075cc3@default>, Dilwyn Jones
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Roy Wood wrote:
>>I was told that, just before the QL was due for release, someone
>showed
>>Sir Clive one of the 'new' 3.5" drives and said it would fit into the
>>same space as the microdrives. He is reported to have said 'That will
>>never catch on'
>
>Last year I saw a QL with a 3.5 inch disk drive in place of the
>microdrives, not sure if it was Alex Wells at a Quanta workshop? It
>was mentioned in QL Tady at some point but a quick scan through failed
>to find.
>
>It definitely can be done with patience and dexterity.

Well spotted, Dilwyn.

I am pretty sure that Sinclair also developed a few prototypes for
internal testing, etc, that included disk drives ... although whether
they were 'working' ones, or just 'dummies' I couldn't say.

I will try and check this out sometime, as I still know the industrial
designer who worked on the QL project for Sinclair.

-- 
Malcolm Cadman

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Malcolm Cadman]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Phoebus Dokos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes

>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Malcolm Cadman 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>A floppy disk drive would certainly have made it more successful - if
>people would have been prepared to pay for it.  Around 1/3 to 2/3 again
>added to the selling price ?
>I was told that, just before the QL was due for release, someone showed Sir 
>Clive one of the 'new' 3.5" drives and said it would fit into the same 
>space as the microdrives. He is reported to have said 'That will never 
>catch on'
>This is probably an apocraphal (is this spelled right Geoff ?) story but I 
>like it.

More an 'urban myth' :-) ... the business decisions were on cost,
weight, appearance, etc ... plus Clive owned the rights to microdrives
so he was about to make far more 'dosh' for himself !  ( With a disk
drive he would have paid rights to someone else ).

Also, do not forget that the first microdrives were intended to be only
the start of a whole range of innovative new ways for mass storage.
Clive subsequently 'lost' a lot of his 'millions' investing in plant and
research to produce new devices that would have developed and owned, and
sold to the world.

Looking back from where we are now, and the development of hardware that
has taken place, it seems odd that any 'individual' tried to do what he
tried to do.  Yet, then again, he was ( is ) an innovator ... and he
just may have succeeded :-)

-- 
Malcolm Cadman

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Robert Newson]

> Certainly apocryphal (TP spell checker - not me) as the 3.5 drives then
> were much too high.  Suitable drives did not appear for years.
>  but a nice story.
> 
> The same story must have happened over the years - wheel, spinning
> jenny, bicycle, digital watch, mobile phone, head transplants..

Is this also true of the story behind choosing the 68008 over the full 68000;
namely:

At design stage the 68008 was in a plastic package and cheap, but the 68000
was in ceramic and expensive; hence went for 68008.  Only prob was that when
the QL actually went into production the 68000 was available in plastic and
cheaper than the 68008!?

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Dilwyn Jones]

Roy Wood wrote:
>I was told that, just before the QL was due for release, someone
showed
>Sir Clive one of the 'new' 3.5" drives and said it would fit into the
>same space as the microdrives. He is reported to have said 'That will
>never catch on'

Last year I saw a QL with a 3.5 inch disk drive in place of the
microdrives, not sure if it was Alex Wells at a Quanta workshop? It
was mentioned in QL Tady at some point but a quick scan through failed
to find.

It definitely can be done with patience and dexterity.

--
Dilwyn Jones
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.soft.net.uk/dj/index.html

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Tony Firshman]

On  Tue, 16 Oct 2001 at 23:47:08,  Q Branch wrote:
(ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)

>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Malcolm Cadman
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>>A floppy disk drive would certainly have made it more successful - if
>>people would have been prepared to pay for it.  Around 1/3 to 2/3 again
>>added to the selling price ?
>I was told that, just before the QL was due for release, someone showed
>Sir Clive one of the 'new' 3.5" drives and said it would fit into the
>same space as the microdrives. He is reported to have said 'That will
>never catch on'
>This is probably an apocraphal (is this spelled right Geoff ?) story
>but I like it.
Certainly apocryphal (TP spell checker - not me) as the 3.5 drives then
were much too high.  Suitable drives did not appear for years.
 but a nice story.

The same story must have happened over the years - wheel, spinning
jenny, bicycle, digital watch, mobile phone, head transplants..

-- 
   QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.firshman.demon.co.uk
Voice: +44(0)1442-828254  Fax: +44(0)1442-828255
  TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Wolfgang Lenerz]

On 16 Oct 2001, at 21:27, Tony Firshman wrote:

> They changed to the crummy one that goes brittle probably to save 20p.
>Yup, that's the typical QL story - do it el cheapo!

wolfgang
-
www.wlenerz.com

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Phoebus Dokos]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


At 11:47 ìì 16/10/2001 +0100, you wrote:
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Malcolm Cadman 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
A floppy disk drive would certainly have made it more successful - if
people would have been prepared to pay for it.  Around 1/3 to 2/3 again
added to the selling price ?
I was told that, just before the QL was due for release, someone showed Sir 
Clive one of the 'new' 3.5" drives and said it would fit into the same 
space as the microdrives. He is reported to have said 'That will never 
catch on'
This is probably an apocraphal (is this spelled right Geoff ?) story but I 
like it.


- ---^
Apocryphal (Apo = From, Crypto/Crypho = Hidden ;-)

Elementary Dr. Wood :-)

Phoebus
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.1 Int. for non-commercial use 


iQA/AwUBO8zKotznHcwPtTTuEQLxFQCg4sc12/V+apbs+rggEfGc0gvvgmAAoOSD
TVQfk+y7HhxwgCaUAcwlTPEx
=AtR1
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Q Branch]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Malcolm Cadman 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>A floppy disk drive would certainly have made it more successful - if
>people would have been prepared to pay for it.  Around 1/3 to 2/3 again
>added to the selling price ?
I was told that, just before the QL was due for release, someone showed 
Sir Clive one of the 'new' 3.5" drives and said it would fit into the 
same space as the microdrives. He is reported to have said 'That will 
never catch on'
This is probably an apocraphal (is this spelled right Geoff ?) story but 
I like it.
-- 

Roy Wood
Q Branch
20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex BN41 2LB
Tel : +44(0)1273-386030 / Mobile : +44 (0) 7836-745501
Fax +44 (0)1273-381577
web site : http://www.qbranch.demon.co.uk/

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Tarquin Mills]

Malcolm Cadman wrote:
>Peter Graf wrote:
>>Tony wrote:
>>
>>>Microdrives especially killed the QL. He tried to push the speed up to
>>>100k - and they never worked reliably.  Unfortunately, the 3.5 disks at
>>>the time were simply too large and power hungry.
>>>If only...
>>
>>..the QL would have been more successful than the Macintosh, there'd be
>>a million active QL users, and Motorola would be producing 3rd generation
>>850 MHz 68060 CPU's ;-)
> 
>A floppy disk drive would certainly have made it more successful - if
>people would have been prepared to pay for it.  Around 1/3 to 2/3 again
>added to the selling price ?
> 
>I remember my first double disk drives for QL were around 200ukp, and
>then there was the disk interface too :-(
  In 1987/88 the Amiga A500 and Atari ST took off and went on to sell in
the millions. Amstrad (Alan Sugar himself) said who wants a 16 bit
computer, as a child reading computer magazines and looking at the
graphics of the 68K based machines I knew why. I wanted one to replace
my ZX-Spectrum. I fell Amstrad missed a opportunity to repacked to the
QL in the same form and do the same as Commodore and Atari. I.e. add a
normal keyboard, a 3.5" disc drive, upgrade the processor to a 68000 and
most important of all add better graphics. As the QL with (QDOS) already
existed (with an user and software base) it would have saved development
time. Amstrad position is made more understandable by the quality of the
CPC and his PC strategy. While on the subject of not created computers,
Oric developed a 68K computer but could not get to work (see 
http://freespace.virgin.net/james.groom/oric/oricfaq.htm). Then their
was the Spectrum Loki.  
-- 
  Yours Tarquin Mills (ACCUS)

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Malcolm Cadman]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, ZN
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>On 10/16/01 at 4:59 PM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>> ..the QL would have been more successful than the 
>>> Macintosh, there'd be a million active QL users, and
>>> Motorola would be producing 3rd generation 850 MHz
>>> 68060 CPU's ;-)
>>
>>And keyboard membranes wouldn't be as rare as hens' teeth.
>
>The fact that today practically 99.99% of all computer keyboards ARE
>membrane based with mechanical keys on top, just like the QL's, must be the
>biggest irony of all. Granted, silicone materials have gone some ways in
>the last 17 years so the 'bubble mat' used instead of springs feels more
>springy that in the days of the QL, but taking apart a modern PC keyboard
>will reveal ALL the same parts from a QL keyboard of yore.

Yes, it is the same for mobile phones - keypads - which are the biggest
selling mass produced electronic product in recent years.

Think how often those 'keys' get pressed.  I guess Sinclair was
innovative after all with all those unusual keyboards, for ZX80 / ZX81
to Spectrum to QL :-)

I remember discussing keyboards for the QL with the industrial designer
at the time it was being created.  The one selected is actually a
special edition from one manufacturers range - so very cost effective
when ordered in quantity, as Sinclair always did.

I've still got that manufacturers catalogue, somewhere.  I guess it is
now a 'collectors' item !

-- 
Malcolm Cadman

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Malcolm Cadman]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Peter Graf
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>Tony wrote:
>
>>Microdrives especially killed the QL. He tried to push the speed up to
>>100k - and they never worked reliably.  Unfortunately, the 3.5 disks at
>>the time were simply too large and power hungry.
>>If only...
>
>..the QL would have been more successful than the Macintosh, there'd be
>a million active QL users, and Motorola would be producing 3rd generation
>850 MHz 68060 CPU's ;-)

A floppy disk drive would certainly have made it more successful - if
people would have been prepared to pay for it.  Around 1/3 to 2/3 again
added to the selling price ?

I remember my first double disk drives for QL were around 200ukp, and
then there was the disk interface too :-(

-- 
Malcolm Cadman

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Tarquin Mills]

 ..the QL would have been more successful than the
 Macintosh, there'd be a million active QL users, and
 Motorola would be producing 3rd generation 850 MHz
 68060 CPU's ;-)
>>>
>>>And keyboard membranes wouldn't be as rare as hens' teeth.
  When I was talking to Syd Humphreys, he said that QLEA had bought some
QL spares, which he still owns. I think he said he had membranes. He
might be willing to part with them for a payment to the Bramerton
Computer Club.
-- 
  Yours Tarquin Mills (ACCUS)

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Tony Firshman]

On  Tue, 16 Oct 2001 at 14:11:12,  ZN wrote:
(ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)

>On 10/16/01 at 4:59 PM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>> ..the QL would have been more successful than the
>>> Macintosh, there'd be a million active QL users, and
>>> Motorola would be producing 3rd generation 850 MHz
>>> 68060 CPU's ;-)
>>
>>And keyboard membranes wouldn't be as rare as hens' teeth.
>
>The fact that today practically 99.99% of all computer keyboards ARE
>membrane based
>with mechanical keys on top, just like the QL's, must be the
>biggest irony of all. Granted, silicone materials have gone some ways in
>the last 17 years so the 'bubble mat' used instead of springs feels more
>springy that in the days of the QL, but taking apart a modern PC keyboard
>will reveal ALL the same parts from a QL keyboard of yore.
... but all the membranes I have seen, from Z88 to PCs (other than
Spectrum ones) have been the good quality clear plastic which stays
flexible.  In fact, I worked on an Apple powerbook once - for a
different problem, and damaged the membrane.  The Apple membrane
actually had encapsulated wire, and I solder repaired it - with a
massive sigh of relief.

-- 
   QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.firshman.demon.co.uk
Voice: +44(0)1442-828254  Fax: +44(0)1442-828255
  TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Tony Firshman]

On  Tue, 16 Oct 2001 at 16:59:10,   wrote:
(ref: )

>> ..the QL would have been more successful than the
>> Macintosh, there'd be
>> a million active QL users, and Motorola would be producing
>> 3rd generation
>> 850 MHz 68060 CPU's ;-)
>
>And keyboard membranes wouldn't be as rare as hens' teeth.
Yeah.  Mind you the first 500 or so QLs had a _very_ good clear plastic
membrane that lasts for ever.
They changed to the crummy one that goes brittle probably to save 20p.

It would have been nice to find the supplier of that one.

If anyone fancies subsidising a run of 5000 or so, the manufacturer
would probably make more - but they would still be the dodgy ones.
-- 
   QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.firshman.demon.co.uk
Voice: +44(0)1442-828254  Fax: +44(0)1442-828255
  TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG

RE: Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[ZN]

On 10/16/01 at 4:59 PM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>> ..the QL would have been more successful than the 
>> Macintosh, there'd be a million active QL users, and
>> Motorola would be producing 3rd generation 850 MHz
>> 68060 CPU's ;-)
>
>And keyboard membranes wouldn't be as rare as hens' teeth.

The fact that today practically 99.99% of all computer keyboards ARE
membrane based with mechanical keys on top, just like the QL's, must be the
biggest irony of all. Granted, silicone materials have gone some ways in
the last 17 years so the 'bubble mat' used instead of springs feels more
springy that in the days of the QL, but taking apart a modern PC keyboard
will reveal ALL the same parts from a QL keyboard of yore.

Nasta

RE: Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Ian . Pine]

> ..the QL would have been more successful than the 
> Macintosh, there'd be
> a million active QL users, and Motorola would be producing 
> 3rd generation
> 850 MHz 68060 CPU's ;-)

And keyboard membranes wouldn't be as rare as hens' teeth.

> -Original Message-
> From: pgraf 
> Sent: 16 October 2001 12:02
> To: ql-users
> Cc: pgraf
> Subject: Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair
> 
> 
> Tony wrote:
> 
> >Microdrives especially killed the QL. He tried to push the 
> speed up to
> >100k - and they never worked reliably.  Unfortunately, the 
> 3.5 disks at
> >the time were simply too large and power hungry.
> >If only...
> 
> ..the QL would have been more successful than the 
> Macintosh, there'd be
> a million active QL users, and Motorola would be producing 
> 3rd generation
> 850 MHz 68060 CPU's ;-)
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair

[Peter Graf]

Tony wrote:

>Microdrives especially killed the QL. He tried to push the speed up to
>100k - and they never worked reliably.  Unfortunately, the 3.5 disks at
>the time were simply too large and power hungry.
>If only...

..the QL would have been more successful than the Macintosh, there'd be
a million active QL users, and Motorola would be producing 3rd generation
850 MHz 68060 CPU's ;-)

Peter

Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair (formerly QPC2)

[Tony Firshman]

On  Mon, 15 Oct 2001 at 19:37:43,  Geoff Wicks wrote:
(ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)

>
>- Original Message -
>From: Dilwyn Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [ql-users] QPC2
>
>>
>> >SINCLAIR RESEARCH LIMITED
>> >1A Spring Gardens, TRAFALGAR SQUARE, LONDON, SW1AA 2BB
>> >
>> >www.sinclair-research.co.uk
>> >
>> >Why not send a copy of QL Toady?  If he responds it would be
>> >interesting to see it printed in the next issue.  :)
>>
>> Now there's a thought!
>>
>
>With or without pages 14 - 16? You said I would be flamed, but I didn't
>think you would be devious enough to actually arrange it.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you said.

Microdrives especially killed the QL. He tried to push the speed up to
100k - and they never worked reliably.  Unfortunately, the 3.5 disks at
the time were simply too large and power hungry.
If only...
-- 
   QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.firshman.demon.co.uk
Voice: +44(0)1442-828254  Fax: +44(0)1442-828255
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Re: [ql-users] Clive Sinclair (formerly QPC2)

[Geoff Wicks]

- Original Message -
From: Dilwyn Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [ql-users] QPC2

>
> >SINCLAIR RESEARCH LIMITED
> >1A Spring Gardens, TRAFALGAR SQUARE, LONDON, SW1AA 2BB
> >
> >www.sinclair-research.co.uk
> >
> >Why not send a copy of QL Toady?  If he responds it would be
> >interesting to see it printed in the next issue.  :)
>
> Now there's a thought!
>

With or without pages 14 - 16? You said I would be flamed, but I didn't
think you would be devious enough to actually arrange it.

Geoff Wicks
[EMAIL PROTECTED]