off-topic

[Ing. Guillermo Villasana Cardoza]

Hello guys... I know this is not a qmail question.. but can 
someone point me to a good linux mailing list?
Thanks and sorry.
Terius

off topic

[Wolfgang Pichler]

Hi
  It's a little bit off topic, but does anywhere know which ports to open on
my firewall so that qmail works correctly. At the moment I've opend dns,smtp
and pop3 but when i activate the firewall some messages can't be delivered
(wasn't able to establish an smtp connection), but when i try to telnet to
the specified rcpt-server everything works really fine. So what happend here
? (if i open the firewall for everything, then the messages are leaving the
queue)


Pichler Wolfgang

Dialog Austria
Software & Telekommunikation Ges.m.b.H.
Goethestrasse 93
A-4020 Linz

Tel +43 (0) 70 662774 37
Fax +43 (0) 70 662774 22
Mailmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web www.dialog-gruppe.at

+++

Re: off-topic

[Ruprecht Helms]

Hi,

>Hello guys... I know this is not a qmail question.. but can someone point 
>me to a good linux mailing list?
>Thanks and sorry.
>Terius

there are much lists on vger.rutgers.edu.
Problem is that the listserver (majordomo) is not stable
and sometimes you can get no mails from the list for a longer time.

If special infos wanted take the lists mentioned on the homepages of the 
products.

Regards,
Ruprecht

Re: off-topic

[Dean Staff]

On 20 Jun 2001, at 9:45, Ing. Guillermo Villasana Card wrote: 

>Hello guys... I know this is not a qmail question.. but can someone  
>point me to a good linux mailing list? 
>Thanks and sorry. 
>Terius 

Hi,  

I'm not sure what sort of information you are looking for, but my  
local LUG is usually very helpful. 

You will have to subscibe to the list by visiting 
http://www.oclug.on.ca/mailman/listinfo/oclug 

Cheers 
Dean 



Dean Staff
Protus IP Solutions
210 - 2379 Holly Lane
Ottawa, ON K1V 7P2 Canada
613-733- ex 546 Fax 613-248-4553
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.protus.com

Re: off-topic

[Ing. Guillermo Villasana Cardoza]

thanks to everyone  :)

Terius

Re: off topic

[Brett Randall]

>>>>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:56:32 +0200, "Wolfgang Pichler" 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Hi

Mornin.

> It's a little bit off topic,

comp.security.firewalls
comp.os.linux.networking

> but does anywhere know which ports to open on my firewall so that
> qmail works correctly.

25 outbound if you only want to send e-mail to external sites. 25
inbound as well if you have a mail server in a DMZ.

> At the moment I've opend dns,smtp and pop3 but when i activate the
> firewall some messages can't be delivered (wasn't able to establish
> an smtp connection),

Log entries? Kernel details? OS even? There is a big diff between
Linux and FreeBSD. Hec, there is a big diff between Linux v2.0, v2.2
and v2.4 firewalling. How are we meant to help you if we don't even
know the foundation?

> but when i try to telnet to the specified rcpt-server everything
> works really fine.

rcpt-server = really crazy parrot tarot-server? What do you mean,
rcpt-server? Do you mean the remote MX?

> So what happend here ? (if i open the firewall for everything, then
> the messages are leaving the queue)

Nice... I think it's probably safer you leave the firewall
open. Really.
-- 
"Bubble Memory, n.: A derogatory term, usually referring to a person's
intelligence. See also vacuum tube."

- The Devil's Dictionary to Computer Studies

AW: off topic

[Wolfgang Pichler]

OS: Linux 2.4.4-smp with iptables v 1.2.1a
with rcpt-server i mean the mean the highest prior MX server from the dns
server.
I have no mail server in DMZ
I've used the following rule:
  iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport smtp -s myip -j -m state --state
NEW,ESTABLISHED ACCEPT

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Brett Randall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Gesendet: Montag, 13. August 2001 17:18
An: Wolfgang Pichler
Cc: QMail Mailling List
Betreff: Re: off topic


>>>>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:56:32 +0200, "Wolfgang Pichler"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Hi

Mornin.

> It's a little bit off topic,

comp.security.firewalls
comp.os.linux.networking

> but does anywhere know which ports to open on my firewall so that
> qmail works correctly.

25 outbound if you only want to send e-mail to external sites. 25
inbound as well if you have a mail server in a DMZ.

> At the moment I've opend dns,smtp and pop3 but when i activate the
> firewall some messages can't be delivered (wasn't able to establish
> an smtp connection),

Log entries? Kernel details? OS even? There is a big diff between
Linux and FreeBSD. Hec, there is a big diff between Linux v2.0, v2.2
and v2.4 firewalling. How are we meant to help you if we don't even
know the foundation?

> but when i try to telnet to the specified rcpt-server everything
> works really fine.

rcpt-server = really crazy parrot tarot-server? What do you mean,
rcpt-server? Do you mean the remote MX?

> So what happend here ? (if i open the firewall for everything, then
> the messages are leaving the queue)

Nice... I think it's probably safer you leave the firewall
open. Really.
--
"Bubble Memory, n.: A derogatory term, usually referring to a person's
intelligence. See also vacuum tube."

- The Devil's Dictionary to Computer Studies

AW: off topic

[Wolfgang Pichler]

uuups: i mean
iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport smtp -s myip -m state --state
NEW,ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Wolfgang Pichler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Gesendet: Montag, 13. August 2001 17:34
An: QMail Mailling List
Betreff: AW: off topic


OS: Linux 2.4.4-smp with iptables v 1.2.1a
with rcpt-server i mean the mean the highest prior MX server from the dns
server.
I have no mail server in DMZ
I've used the following rule:
  iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport smtp -s myip -j -m state --state
NEW,ESTABLISHED ACCEPT

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Brett Randall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Gesendet: Montag, 13. August 2001 17:18
An: Wolfgang Pichler
Cc: QMail Mailling List
Betreff: Re: off topic


>>>>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:56:32 +0200, "Wolfgang Pichler"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Hi

Mornin.

> It's a little bit off topic,

comp.security.firewalls
comp.os.linux.networking

> but does anywhere know which ports to open on my firewall so that
> qmail works correctly.

25 outbound if you only want to send e-mail to external sites. 25
inbound as well if you have a mail server in a DMZ.

> At the moment I've opend dns,smtp and pop3 but when i activate the
> firewall some messages can't be delivered (wasn't able to establish
> an smtp connection),

Log entries? Kernel details? OS even? There is a big diff between
Linux and FreeBSD. Hec, there is a big diff between Linux v2.0, v2.2
and v2.4 firewalling. How are we meant to help you if we don't even
know the foundation?

> but when i try to telnet to the specified rcpt-server everything
> works really fine.

rcpt-server = really crazy parrot tarot-server? What do you mean,
rcpt-server? Do you mean the remote MX?

> So what happend here ? (if i open the firewall for everything, then
> the messages are leaving the queue)

Nice... I think it's probably safer you leave the firewall
open. Really.
--
"Bubble Memory, n.: A derogatory term, usually referring to a person's
intelligence. See also vacuum tube."

- The Devil's Dictionary to Computer Studies

Re: off topic

[Robin S. Socha]

On Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 05:48:57PM +0200, Wolfgang Pichler wrote:
> Brett Randall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:56:32 +0200, "Wolfgang Pichler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>said:

> > > It's a little bit off topic,
> > comp.security.firewalls
> > comp.os.linux.networking

Tell me, Wolfgang, which part of off topic did you misinterpret?

> > > but does anywhere know which ports to open on my firewall so that
> > > qmail works correctly.

> > 25 outbound if you only want to send e-mail to external sites. 25
> > inbound as well if you have a mail server in a DMZ.

> I have no mail server in DMZ

Do you have a DMZ at all? How do you expect *any*one to correctly
guess your setup?

> > > At the moment I've opend dns,smtp and pop3 but when i activate the
> > > firewall some messages can't be delivered (wasn't able to establish
> > > an smtp connection),
> 
> > Log entries? Kernel details? OS even? 

> OS: Linux 2.4.4-smp with iptables v 1.2.1a 

http://kernel.org/: 
The latest stable version of the Linux kernel is:  2.4.8  2001-08-11 04:13 UTC  

http://netfilter.samba.org/: 
May 07 2001  iptables 1.2.2

S... you're running a stock Linux distribution. You have all the
necessary information for setting up your toy-firewall right at your
fscking fingertips. Why are you asking your question in the *wrong
forum*?

> > > but when i try to telnet to the specified rcpt-server everything
> > > works really fine.

> > rcpt-server = really crazy parrot tarot-server? What do you mean,
> > rcpt-server? Do you mean the remote MX?

> with rcpt-server i mean the mean the highest prior MX server from
> the dns server.  

Then why didn't you say so? And before you submit your question to
news:comp.os.linux.networking, make sure to write a protocol of that
session.

> > > So what happend here ? (if i open the firewall for everything, then
> > > the messages are leaving the queue)

> > Nice... I think it's probably safer you leave the firewall open.
> > Really.

> iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport smtp -s myip -m state --state NEW,ESTABLISHED -j 
>ACCEPT

Without the output of iptables -L, this is rubbish. WTF is "myip"? Why
did you not read http://learn.to/edit_messages/ before writing in a
technical forum? Why is your MUA setup totally broken? Nudlaug...
-- 
Robin S. Socha http://socha.net  Do not Cc: me. Ever.

Slightly Off Topic

[Shane Wise]

Kinda off topic, but with the intelligent people in this group hopefully I
can get an answer.

Since qmail doesn't support fallback smtp hosts, does anyone know how to
setup linux to go out a different way...let me explain.

I have 2 dsl connections to the internet with seperate providers.  As it
stands know if the one with the default route dies I am sunk unless I am
here to change.  I would like to have 2 default routes and have it use one
as the primary and the other as the secondary default route.  I have tried
many different things but cannot get it to work.  I have tried putting both
in as default and one having a slightly higher metric and pulled the plug on
the main on, but nothing goes out until I plug it back in.

Any ideas???

Thanks,
Shane Wise
For the latest Nashville Weather Conditions
Check http://www.nashvilleweather.net

Re: Slightly Off Topic

[Chris K. Young]

Quoted from Shane Wise:
> I have 2 dsl connections to the internet with seperate providers.  As it
> stands know if the one with the default route dies I am sunk unless I am
> here to change.

Is there a way to automatically tell when one of the routes will fall
over? If so, just have a script automatically rewrite ``smtproutes''
when that happens.

---Chris K.
-- 
 Chris, the Young One |_ If you can't afford a backup system, you can't 
  Auckland, New Zealand |_ afford to have important data on your computer. 
http://cloud9.hedgee.com/ |_ ---Tracy R. Reed  

Re: Slightly Off Topic

[John Gonzalez/netMDC admin]

I think he's asking more of a way to supply two different gateways on his
linux box.

I have never messed with this, however, your idea is good. You can ping
your gateway and if x number of packets are dropped, then you just rerun
the route command and change the gateway/interface.

fping should do what you want.

On 5 Sep 2000, Chris K. Young wrote:

| Quoted from Shane Wise:
| > I have 2 dsl connections to the internet with seperate providers.  As it
| > stands know if the one with the default route dies I am sunk unless I am
| > here to change.
| 
| Is there a way to automatically tell when one of the routes will fall
| over? If so, just have a script automatically rewrite ``smtproutes''
| when that happens.
| 
|   ---Chris K.


-- 
  ___   _  __   _  
__  /___ ___    /__  John Gonzalez/Net.Tech
__  __ \ __ \  __/_  __ `__ \/ __  /_  ___/ MDC Computers/netMDC!
_  / / / `__/ /_  / / / / / / /_/ / / /__ (505)439-0200/fax-437-3052
/_/ /_/\___/\__/ /_/ /_/ /_/\__,_/  \___/ http://www.netmdc.com
[-[system info]---]
  8:00am  up 117 days, 14:03,  3 users,  load average: 0.42, 0.23, 0.14

Re: Slightly Off Topic

[David Dyer-Bennet]

Shane Wise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes on 5 September 2000 at 01:43:35 
-0500
 > Kinda off topic, but with the intelligent people in this group hopefully I
 > can get an answer.
 > 
 > Since qmail doesn't support fallback smtp hosts, does anyone know how to
 > setup linux to go out a different way...let me explain.
 > 
 > I have 2 dsl connections to the internet with seperate providers.  As it
 > stands know if the one with the default route dies I am sunk unless I am
 > here to change.  I would like to have 2 default routes and have it use one
 > as the primary and the other as the secondary default route.  I have tried
 > many different things but cannot get it to work.  I have tried putting both
 > in as default and one having a slightly higher metric and pulled the plug on
 > the main on, but nothing goes out until I plug it back in.
 > 
 > Any ideas???

I'm not completely sure which part of the problem you're loooking for
help with.  What you describe sounds like a routing problem more than
anything else.  With 2 dsl connections, you need to be running a real
router somewhere between those connections and your systems that knows
how to see when one of the routes goes away.
-- 
Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ Minicon: http://www.mnstf.org/minicon
Bookworms: http://ouroboros.demesne.com/ SF: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b 
David Dyer-Bennet / Welcome to the future! / [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Slightly Off Topic

[Peter van Dijk]

On Tue, Sep 05, 2000 at 01:32:01PM -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> Shane Wise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes on 5 September 2000 at 01:43:35 
>-0500
>  > Kinda off topic, but with the intelligent people in this group hopefully I
>  > can get an answer.
>  > 
>  > Since qmail doesn't support fallback smtp hosts, does anyone know how to
>  > setup linux to go out a different way...let me explain.

Wut? qmail supports fallback smtp hosts.

Greetz, Peter.
-- 
[ircoper][EMAIL PROTECTED] - Peter van Dijk / Hardbeat
[student]Undernet:#groningen/wallops | IRCnet:/#alliance
[developer]_
[disbeliever - the world is backwards](__VuurWerk__(--*-

Re: Slightly Off Topic

[Peter Green]

> Since qmail doesn't support fallback smtp hosts, does anyone know how to
> setup linux to go out a different way...let me explain.
> 
> I have 2 dsl connections to the internet with seperate providers.  As it
> stands know if the one with the default route dies I am sunk unless I am
> here to change.  I would like to have 2 default routes and have it use one
> as the primary and the other as the secondary default route.  I have tried
> many different things but cannot get it to work.  I have tried putting both
> in as default and one having a slightly higher metric and pulled the plug on
> the main on, but nothing goes out until I plug it back in.
> 
> Any ideas???

While I'm not positive, I don't think this is possible without significant
investment of time. The only way to do this, I think, is with BGP or some
other dynamic routing protocol. You might check into the iproute2 stuff
(search on freshmeat.net for iproute2 to find the HOWTO), but I think even
that is not going to accomplish what you want.

/pg
-- 
Peter Green : Gospel Communications Network, SysAdmin : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
There is, however, a strange, musty smell in the air that reminds me
of something...hmm...yes...I've got it...there's a VMS nearby, or
I'm a Blit.
--- Larry Wall in Configure from the perl distribution

Re: Slightly Off Topic

[Dave Sill]

Peter van Dijk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Wut? qmail supports fallback smtp hosts.

If you're referring to alternate MX's, that's not the same thing as
Sendmail's fallback host. With Sendmail, if the first delivery attempt 
fails, the message can be passed off to a fallback host for subsequent 
delivery attempts.

Hmm...maybe if you set queuelifetime to 0 and redirect bounces to
another host somehow you could achieve the same effect.

-Dave

Re: Slightly Off Topic

[Peter van Dijk]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 08:26:54AM -0400, Dave Sill wrote:
> Peter van Dijk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >Wut? qmail supports fallback smtp hosts.
> 
> If you're referring to alternate MX's, that's not the same thing as
> Sendmail's fallback host. With Sendmail, if the first delivery attempt 
> fails, the message can be passed off to a fallback host for subsequent 
> delivery attempts.

Ah, the *one* feature I miss in qmail.

I liked that on my dialup back when I was using sendmail.

> Hmm...maybe if you set queuelifetime to 0 and redirect bounces to
> another host somehow you could achieve the same effect.

Sounds scary.

Greetz, Peter.
-- 
[ircoper][EMAIL PROTECTED] - Peter van Dijk / Hardbeat
[student]Undernet:#groningen/wallops | IRCnet:/#alliance
[developer]_
[disbeliever - the world is backwards](__VuurWerk__(--*-

Re: Slightly Off Topic

[Petr Novotny]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 6 Sep 2000, at 8:26, Dave Sill wrote:

> >Wut? qmail supports fallback smtp hosts.
> 
> If you're referring to alternate MX's, that's not the same thing as
> Sendmail's fallback host. With Sendmail, if the first delivery attempt
> fails, the message can be passed off to a fallback host for subsequent
> delivery attempts.
> 
> Hmm...maybe if you set queuelifetime to 0 and redirect bounces to
> another host somehow you could achieve the same effect.

A better way seems to try qmail-remote yourself, and if it fails, 
inject the mail to another qmail's queue via qmail-qmqpc. Interfaces 
to both qmail-remote and qmail-qmqpc are well documented.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8 -- QDPGP 2.61b
Comment: http://community.wow.net/grt/qdpgp.html

iQA/AwUBObYtWFMwP8g7qbw/EQIMYwCfaKuC7tf/n56co7ZQv7ZYrbnd4tcAn0lE
YpeGUXQrIKUfFHAhrrorTKlP
=5RxK
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
--
Petr Novotny, ANTEK CS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.antek.cz
PGP key ID: 0x3BA9BC3F
-- Don't you know there ain't no devil there's just God when he's drunk.
 [Tom Waits]

Re: Slightly Off Topic

[Michael T. Babcock]

- Original Message -
From: "Petr Novotny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On 6 Sep 2000, at 8:26, Dave Sill wrote:
>
> > >Wut? qmail supports fallback smtp hosts.
> >
> > If you're referring to alternate MX's, that's not the same thing as
> > Sendmail's fallback host. With Sendmail, if the first delivery attempt
> > fails, the message can be passed off to a fallback host for subsequent
> > delivery attempts.
> >
> > Hmm...maybe if you set queuelifetime to 0 and redirect bounces to
> > another host somehow you could achieve the same effect.
>
> A better way seems to try qmail-remote yourself, and if it fails,
> inject the mail to another qmail's queue via qmail-qmqpc. Interfaces
> to both qmail-remote and qmail-qmqpc are well documented.

I can't possibly believe you advise this as a 'better' way unless you're
expecting the issue to occur only once a day or less.  If the user wants
this feature, it may not be available in qmail, but I wouldn't advise manual
intervention on a server for such an automate-able event.

Re: Slightly Off Topic

[Peter van Dijk]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:06:59AM -0400, Michael T. Babcock wrote:
[snip]
> > > Hmm...maybe if you set queuelifetime to 0 and redirect bounces to
> > > another host somehow you could achieve the same effect.
> >
> > A better way seems to try qmail-remote yourself, and if it fails,
> > inject the mail to another qmail's queue via qmail-qmqpc. Interfaces
> > to both qmail-remote and qmail-qmqpc are well documented.
> 
> I can't possibly believe you advise this as a 'better' way unless you're
> expecting the issue to occur only once a day or less.  If the user wants
> this feature, it may not be available in qmail, but I wouldn't advise manual
> intervention on a server for such an automate-able event.

I don't think he means 'manual'.

Greetz, Peter.
-- 
[ircoper][EMAIL PROTECTED] - Peter van Dijk / Hardbeat
[student]Undernet:#groningen/wallops | IRCnet:/#alliance
[developer]_
[disbeliever - the world is backwards](__VuurWerk__(--*-

Re: Slightly Off Topic

[Andy Bradford]

Thus said "Shane Wise" on Tue, 05 Sep 2000 01:43:35 CDT:

> I have 2 dsl connections to the internet with seperate providers.  As it
> stands know if the one with the default route dies I am sunk unless I am
> here to change.  I would like to have 2 default routes and have it use one
> as the primary and the other as the secondary default route.  I have tried
> many different things but cannot get it to work.  I have tried putting both
> in as default and one having a slightly higher metric and pulled the plug on
> the main on, but nothing goes out until I plug it back in.

This sounds like a job for your nearest routing protocol... It would 
automatically detect that the link is down and then not advertise it as 
the best route.  Or, you could write a simple script that sends out a 
ping every minute.  If it comes back, don't change the default route, 
if it doesn't come back then change it.  Then, continue to monitor the 
downed link and when it is available change back.  This is really 
probably better handled by a routing protocol though. :-)

Andy
-- 
[---[system uptime]]
 12:16am  up 43 days,  3:30,  5 users,  load average: 1.06, 1.20, 1.24

Off Topic: Netscape 3.0

[David Villeger]

Hi,

Test email messages sent by us to Netscape Mail 3.0x users can't be read.
When they click on the message, it opens, flickers, and closes.

This is not a qmail question. Although we use qmail to receive email, we
don't use it to send (too slow). But I am getting desperate, I've looked at
all standards/faqs/... again and I didn't find anything, so I thought I'd
try the email experts on the list.

The body headers are as follow:

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 04:59:25 -
Message-Id: <19990730045925.0850.cheetahmail@mta1>
From: "Bat Girl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Free tonight?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I looked and looked again and can't find anything outside the standard
(even the order of the fields). This is obviously a Netscape 3.0x bug as it
works perfectly on all other MUAs.

Has anybody ever seen this problem before?

Thanks again.

David.
__
David Villeger
(212) 972 2030 x34

http://www.CheetahMail.com
The Internet Email Publishing Solution

Off topic: Open relay

[Petr Novotny]

Hi,

sorry for the off-topic: Where do I report open relay complaint 
(other that the postmaster at the site)? Thanks
--
Petr Novotny, ANTEK CS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.antek.cz
-- Don't you know there ain't no devil there's just God when he's drunk.
 [Tom Waits]

(off topic) required mx?

[Niklas Alberth]

Hello

I guess this is abit of topic but I don't knew any one else to ask.

(bakground: I'm doing a kind of exam work, using linux to set up a (q)mail
and web server for the other students at my school, I've only got control
over my own server)

My qmail server is at student.nystromska.soderkoping.se, I'm only accepting
mail for that domain. Is a mx required for that domain? I've tried to set
up a dns server but i don't think the rest of the net is aware of it. I
can't other A or CNAME i've setup.

Please take a look, and if you like - see if I've configured my server right.

--Niklas 

ITU-T (Off Topic)

[Mark Lo]

Hi,

First of all, Sorry for being Off-Topic.  I am facing a little problem
in order to get my qmail server on-line.  In Hong Kong, I am to apply a
license for mail server and this mail server has to be comply with ITU-T
standard.  I just want to ask what is the standard in ITU-T from a mail
server.  I have looking at the site www.itu.int about ITU-T standard, but I
couldn't find anything related to mail server, and it requires me to pay
before I have read it's document on-line.

   Does anyone heard of ITU-T ?? Can you tell me what it is, and how to make
my mail server comply with ITU-T ??


Thank you

Mark

Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Len Budney]

I know there is a recurring thread, "Which readers use maildirs as
folders?" The problem is, the answer is always the same: mutt. No
other mailer uses maildirs as local folders, although a few can use
maildirs as incoming mail spools. (If I'm wrong about this, please let
me know!)

Yes, mutt is just fine. However, we emacs users are discriminated
against; switching to mutt is just not acceptable because it means
losing all the rest of emacs's features from our mail reader. Also,
fans of MH are out in the cold; there is no command-line interface for
handling messages in maildir folders.

I believe that the solution is a CLI maildir-enabled mailreader, similar
in spirit to MH (but without any defects). The resulting tools should be
easily imbeddable into things like Emacs mailreaders (GNUs, mh-e, and
brand-new readers).

If anyone is interested in exploring this idea, please send an empty email
to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and follow the directions
in the reply.

If anyone knows of such a project already underway, please let me know at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

For more information, see .

Len.

--
Don't believe anything RFC 1912 says until you've verified it elsewhere.
-- Dan Bernstein

Completely off topic: supervise cron?

[Chris Garrigues]

I've got a system on which cron keeps dying.

Would it work to run cron under supervise?

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues virCIO
+1 512 432 4046 4314 Avenue CO-
http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/   Austin, TX  78751-3709
+1 512 374 0500

  My email address is an experiment in SPAM elimination.  For an
  explanation of what we're doing, see http://www.DeepEddy.Com/tms.html 

Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft,
  but they could get fired for relying on Microsoft.



 PGP signature

List manager! Off topic... Sorry!

[Anonymous]

Sorry to waste the bandwidth, but I need to know if the QMAIL list is set 
up to do digests.  My mail-server is getting mad at me. :)

Thanks,
Geordon

Off topic - What is GFY?

[McGinnis, Tom]

I've tried and tried, but can't seem to figure out why "GFY" is so
offensive.  Obviously I haven't figured out the real meaning.  "Good for
you" is all I can come up with.

-Tom

Re: Off topic: Open relay

[Harald Hanche-Olsen]

- "Petr Novotny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

| sorry for the off-topic: Where do I report open relay complaint 
| (other that the postmaster at the site)? Thanks

Read http://maps.vix.com/rbl/> and links therein.

- Harald

Re: Off topic: Open relay

[Russell Nelson]

Petr Novotny writes:
 > sorry for the off-topic: Where do I report open relay complaint 
 > (other that the postmaster at the site)? Thanks

If they're abusing you, and the postmaster is unresponsive over a
period of time, and attempts to contact them offline (e.g. a phone
call) have no effect, report them (along with the offending spam and a 
report of the contacts) to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
-russ nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://crynwr.com/~nelson
Crynwr supports Open Source(tm) Software| PGPok |   There is good evidence
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice |   that freedom is the
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   |   cause of world peace.

Re: Off topic: Open relay

[Edward S. Marshall]

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Petr Novotny wrote:
> sorry for the off-topic: Where do I report open relay complaint 
> (other that the postmaster at the site)? Thanks

http://www.orbs.org/

-- 
Edward S. Marshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   [ What goes up, must come down. ]
http://www.logic.net/~emarshal/   [ Ask any system administrator. ]

   Linux labyrinth 2.2.2-pre2 #2 Sun Feb 14 15:24:09 CST 1999 i586 unknown
   9:55am up 16 days, 10:31, 3 users, load average: 0.06, 0.02, 0.00

Re: Off topic: Open relay

[Michael Bracker]

hi,

At 16:58 03.03.99 , Edward S. Marshall wrote:
>http://www.orbs.org/

is this the place where bad guys coming in the RBL? Is there any place to
inform these people?


bye,
Michael

Re: Off topic: Open relay

[Edward S. Marshall]

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Michael Bracker wrote:
> At 16:58 03.03.99 , Edward S. Marshall wrote:
> >http://www.orbs.org/
> 
> is this the place where bad guys coming in the RBL? Is there any place to
> inform these people?

www.orbs.org hosts a system (ORBS) which allows you to enter the IP
addresses of systems which you believe are open relays. It will test this,
and if they are, notify (as best it can) the administrators of the system
involved, and add the system to a list of other open relays, until such
time as they fix their problem.

ORBS works in a similar manner (technically) to the MAPS RBL, but is
completely automated, unlike MAPS.

Hope that answered your question, since I wasn't quite sure what you were
asking...

-- 
Edward S. Marshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   [ What goes up, must come down. ]
http://www.logic.net/~emarshal/   [ Ask any system administrator. ]

   Linux labyrinth 2.2.2-pre2 #2 Sun Feb 14 15:24:09 CST 1999 i586 unknown
   8:45pm up 16 days, 21:21, 4 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

OFF-TOPIC Re: "scientific" relations

[Harald Hanche-Olsen]

- Mate Wierdl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

| there is no Nobel prize in mathematics b/c Mittag-Leffler
| seduced A. Nobel's wife,

This is a wide-spread myth for which there is no evidence.

- Harald

Re: (off topic) required mx?

[Peter van Dijk]

On Sat, Jan 23, 1999 at 08:56:42PM +0100, Niklas Alberth wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I guess this is abit of topic but I don't knew any one else to ask.
> 
> (bakground: I'm doing a kind of exam work, using linux to set up a (q)mail
> and web server for the other students at my school, I've only got control
> over my own server)
> 
> My qmail server is at student.nystromska.soderkoping.se, I'm only accepting
> mail for that domain. Is a mx required for that domain? I've tried to set
> up a dns server but i don't think the rest of the net is aware of it. I
> can't other A or CNAME i've setup.

There is an A record pointing to your server. That's enough to receive mail.

To run your own nameserver, you would have to get the admin for nystromska
to set an NS pointer to your machine.

> Please take a look, and if you like - see if I've configured my server right.

I think everything's ok.

Greetz, Peter.
-- 
 AND I AM GONNA KILL MIKE|  Peter van Dijk
 hardbeat, als je nog nuchter bent:  | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   @date = localtime(time);  |  realtime security d00d
   $date[5] += 2000 if ($date[5] < 37);  | 
   $date[5] += 1900 if ($date[5] < 99);  |* blah *

off-topic: include file des.h

[Ari Arantes Filho]

Hi,

I'm trying to work with a crypt system and the program is asking for include
des.h.

Can anyone send this file to me?

Best regards,

Ari

off-topic: Dan's engineering methods

[Len Budney]

Apologies for this slightly off-topic post.

Has Dan has revealed enough about his engineering methods for others
to duplicate them? Does anybody want to, possibly producing sharable
tools? Given the quality of his results, his methods might be worth
imitating.  (Plus, I'm not happy with current approaches to building;
below are some reasons.)

Dan: any hints, pointers, or sample scripts, however rough, would be
much appreciated--at least by me.

The big open question for me is:

  1. What does he use for source control, given that he builds in one
 directory, and bundles the same libraries with many packages? How
 is the repository organized? CVS etc. like hierarchies.

Here's what I have determined or guessed from following these lists.

  1. Dan _does_ have automated tools, but doesn't consider them production
 quality and hasn't released them [1].

  2. The ezmlm package contains files of form *=* which give a strong
 hint how his makefiles are generated [2].

  3. Dan appears to track "functional units" of code, and appears to
 incorporate them into projects as units [5]. Perhaps using CVS
 modules or the like?

  4. All sources go into one directory; Perhaps because recursion defeats
 make's dependency checks [3,4]? Perhaps because many tools don't like
 to build things in subdirectories? Perhaps because his packages
 are pretty small, so it just doesn't matter?

  5. The "just in time dependency" [1] approach to configuration is fairly
 well understood. (DJB's 'yabbawhap' package included a tool which
 inspired autoconf [1], but he has adopted his current approach
 because monolithic config subverts make's dependency checking [3].)

  6. Scripts "compile" and "load" exist so make can manage dependency
 on compiler settings. Changed settings force recompilation [3].

Thanks,
Len.


--
[1]
<http://www.ornl.gov/its/archives/mailing-lists/qmail/1999/08/msg5.html>

[2]
<http://www.ornl.gov/its/archives/mailing-lists/qmail/1999/07/msg00115.html>

[3]
<http://www.ornl.gov/its/archives/mailing-lists/qmail/1996/12/msg01294.html>
<http://www.ornl.gov/its/archives/mailing-lists/qmail/1996/12/msg00208.html>
<http://www.ornl.gov/its/archives/mailing-lists/qmail/1998/03/msg00788.html>

[4] For a discussion, not by Dan, see "Recursive Make Considered Harmful" at
<http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~millerp/rmch/recu-make-cons-harm.html>.

[5] I can't find the reference. Dan once posted the observation that sets
of files belong together, as {substdi.c, substdio.c, substdio.h} (not the
correct example).

Off topic about mailling list

[Henri J. Schlereth]

Is there a digest version?

Henri
-- 
-
"All data leaves a trail. The search for data leaves a trail.
The erasure of data leaves a trail.The absence of data, under
the right circumstances,can leave the clearest trail of all-
Dr. Kio Masada" 
-

OFF-TOPIC (Dan's DNS servers)

[Michael Boman]

I remeber that one part of Dan's DNS software can reply different IP's
depending on where you are comming from.. could someone please remind me
what part of the DNS software that is?

Best regards
 Michael Boman

-- 
W I Z O F F I C E . C O M   L I M I T E D  -  Your Online Office Wizard
16 Tannery Lane, Crystal Time Building, #04-00, Singapore 347778
Voice : (+65) 844 3228 [extension 118]  Fax : (+65) 842 7228
Pager : (+65) 92 93 29 49   ICQ : 5566009
Mobile: (+65) 98 55 17 34
eMail : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]URL : http://www.wizoffice.com
 S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: ITU-T (Off Topic)

[Erwin Hoffmann]

Hi,

At 15:38 9.10.2000 +0800, Mark Lo wrote:
>Hi,
>
>First of all, Sorry for being Off-Topic.  I am facing a little problem
>in order to get my qmail server on-line.  In Hong Kong, I am to apply a
>license for mail server and this mail server has to be comply with ITU-T
>standard.  I just want to ask what is the standard in ITU-T from a mail
>server.  

Sure there is. The standard ist called X.400. It defines a so called
Message Transfer System (MTS) with X.400 MTAs and lots of other things
including own protocols for Mail access (P3 etc).
This is a different approach wrt SMTP.

Vendors are ISOCOR, DEC (X.400 Mailhub) and others. There are X.400
Gateways available for Lotus Notes 
Addresses are defined as Originator/Recipient (OR) in a X.500 manner
(CN=,O=,C=) etc.

>I have looking at the site www.itu.int about ITU-T standard, but I
>couldn't find anything related to mail server, and it requires me to pay
>before I have read it's document on-line.

Some older X.400 docs are available almost for free.

A lot of RFCs deal with conversion between SMTP and X.400 E-Mail. 

>
>   Does anyone heard of ITU-T ?? Can you tell me what it is, and how to make
>my mail server comply with ITU-T ??

X.400 E-Mail is practically dead. Do you like to raise a zombie ??

X.400 failed because there was no routing database available - SMTP uses MX
Records in DNS. 

However, many good ideas and concepts were integrated into SMTP. 

cheers.
eh.
>
>
>Thank you
>
>Mark
>
>
+---+
|  fffhh http://www.fehcom.deDr. Erwin Hoffmann |
| ff  hh|
| ffeee     ccc   ooomm mm  mm   Wiener Weg 8   |
| fff  ee ee  hh  hh   cc   oo   oo  mmm  mm  mm 50858 Koeln|
| ff  ee eee  hh  hh  cc   oo oo mm   mm  mm|
| ff  eee hh  hh   cc   oo   oo  mm   mm  mm Tel 0221 484 4923  |
| ff      hh  hhccc   ooomm   mm  mm Fax 0221 484 4924  |
+---+

Re: ITU-T (Off Topic)

[Mark Lo]

Hi,

Offtopic Again !!  Sorry !!  Does anyone know ...Do I need a license to
operate a mail server in Hong Kong.??  How about in US ?

Thank You

Mark

- Original Message -
From: Erwin Hoffmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mark Lo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: ITU-T (Off Topic)


> Hi,
>
> At 15:38 9.10.2000 +0800, Mark Lo wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >First of all, Sorry for being Off-Topic.  I am facing a little
problem
> >in order to get my qmail server on-line.  In Hong Kong, I am to apply a
> >license for mail server and this mail server has to be comply with ITU-T
> >standard.  I just want to ask what is the standard in ITU-T from a mail
> >server.
>
> Sure there is. The standard ist called X.400. It defines a so called
> Message Transfer System (MTS) with X.400 MTAs and lots of other things
> including own protocols for Mail access (P3 etc).
> This is a different approach wrt SMTP.
>
> Vendors are ISOCOR, DEC (X.400 Mailhub) and others. There are X.400
> Gateways available for Lotus Notes 
> Addresses are defined as Originator/Recipient (OR) in a X.500 manner
> (CN=,O=,C=) etc.
>
> >I have looking at the site www.itu.int about ITU-T standard, but I
> >couldn't find anything related to mail server, and it requires me to pay
> >before I have read it's document on-line.
>
> Some older X.400 docs are available almost for free.
>
> A lot of RFCs deal with conversion between SMTP and X.400 E-Mail.
>
> >
> >   Does anyone heard of ITU-T ?? Can you tell me what it is, and how to
make
> >my mail server comply with ITU-T ??
>
> X.400 E-Mail is practically dead. Do you like to raise a zombie ??
>
> X.400 failed because there was no routing database available - SMTP uses
MX
> Records in DNS.
>
> However, many good ideas and concepts were integrated into SMTP.
>
> cheers.
> eh.
> >
> >
> >Thank you
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >
> +---+
> |  fffhh http://www.fehcom.deDr. Erwin Hoffmann |
> | ff  hh|
> | ffeee     ccc   ooomm mm  mm   Wiener Weg 8   |
> | fff  ee ee  hh  hh   cc   oo   oo  mmm  mm  mm 50858 Koeln|
> | ff  ee eee  hh  hh  cc   oo oo mm   mm  mm|
> | ff  eee hh  hh   cc   oo   oo  mm   mm  mm Tel 0221 484 4923  |
> | ff      hh  hhccc   ooomm   mm  mm Fax 0221 484 4924  |
> +---+

Re: ITU-T (Off Topic)

[Peter van Dijk]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2000 at 03:21:33AM +0800, Mark Lo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Offtopic Again !!  Sorry !!  Does anyone know ...Do I need a license to
> operate a mail server in Hong Kong.??  How about in US ?

In US, definitely no. In Hong Kong, not sure, but that would seem very
unlikely.

Greetz, Peter
-- 
dataloss networks
'/ignore-ance is bliss' - me

Re: ITU-T (Off Topic)

[Nathan J. Mehl]

In the immortal words of Mark Lo ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 
> Offtopic Again !!  Sorry !!  Does anyone know ...Do I need a license to
> operate a mail server in Hong Kong.??  How about in US ?

Although many of us think it would be a great idea, you do not need a
license to operate a mail server in the US.  No idea about Hong Kong.

-n

---<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"History, which torments other countries, most just teases America."
 (--www.suck.com)
---

Re: ITU-T (Off Topic)

[richard]

On Mon, 9 Oct 2000, Peter van Dijk wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 10, 2000 at 03:21:33AM +0800, Mark Lo wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Offtopic Again !!  Sorry !!  Does anyone know ...Do I need a license to
> > operate a mail server in Hong Kong.??  How about in US ?
> 
> In US, definitely no. In Hong Kong, not sure, but that would seem very
> unlikely.

remember: the British lease has expired on Hong Kong so it's now been
returned to its owners and is part if China, though it is probably a
special trade zone or something. I would have thought it more likely
to require a license now than before.A

RjL
==
You know that. I know that. But when  ||  Austin, Texas
you talk to a monkey you have to  ||  Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
grunt and wave your arms  -ck ||

Re: ITU-T (Off Topic)

[Geoff @ Home]

- Original Message -
From: "Mark Lo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Erwin Hoffmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: ITU-T (Off Topic)


> Hi,
>
> Offtopic Again !!  Sorry !!  Does anyone know ...Do I need a license
to
> operate a mail server in Hong Kong.??  How about in US ?
>
> Thank You
>
> Mark
>
[snip]

Maybe the ITU-T requirement applies to the physical connection to the line
(i.e. your modem, ISDN or whatever connection).

I would be very surprised if it applies to the actual software that you are
running on your server.

I can't comment on mail server licencing requirements, except to say that
there is certainly no requirement in most "western" countries that I know
of.

HTH

Geoff Everist

Re: ITU-T (Off Topic)

[frob]

>> Hi,
>>
>> Offtopic Again !!  Sorry !!  Does anyone know ...Do I need a license to
>> operate a mail server in Hong Kong.??  How about in US ?
>>

FWIW, I admin two mail servers in HK, licensing has never been an
issue.  DNS delegation is a bureaucrats dream, though.

-- 
Rick Lyons
WebCentral

IP spoofed spam - off topic

[mick]

hello, sorry for the off topic post. 
real quick; had a server x.x.x.110 running sendmail.
getting complaints of spam originating from that box.
removed IP, still getting complaints.
turned system off, still getting complaints.

Can an IP be spoofed so totally in mail headers?
headers:
  Received: from mailserv01.dartgc.com ([207.34.255.70])
by southwind.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21910
for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
  Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Received: from ngqjz.msn.com ([x.x.x.110]) by
  mailserv01.dartgc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail
  Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
id H5VRZ1Y1; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:09:20 -0400

Again, sorry for the off topic post, and thanks.

*
Mick Dobra
Systems Administrator
MTCO Communications
1-800-859-6826
*

Qmail and ColdFusion Problem (off topic?)

[James Moore]

I have coldfusion 4.51 on Windows NT with Apache.  The Mail tag in 
coldfusion is pointing at my qmail smtp server.  It seems that qmail 
is rejecting mail from the coldfusion application server because it 
does not have line feeds in the email.  Has anyone heard of this 
problem?  I have not been able to find anything on allaire's web site.

Thanx,
Jay  

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Matthew Patterson]

Pine has a patch that allows it to use Maildir mailboxes. Maybe you could
just write something like that for emacs.

MHP

- Original Message -
From: Len Budney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 11:58 AM
Subject: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders


> I know there is a recurring thread, "Which readers use maildirs as
> folders?" The problem is, the answer is always the same: mutt. No
> other mailer uses maildirs as local folders, although a few can use
> maildirs as incoming mail spools. (If I'm wrong about this, please let
> me know!)
>
> Yes, mutt is just fine. However, we emacs users are discriminated
> against; switching to mutt is just not acceptable because it means
> losing all the rest of emacs's features from our mail reader. Also,
> fans of MH are out in the cold; there is no command-line interface for
> handling messages in maildir folders.
>
> I believe that the solution is a CLI maildir-enabled mailreader, similar
> in spirit to MH (but without any defects). The resulting tools should be
> easily imbeddable into things like Emacs mailreaders (GNUs, mh-e, and
> brand-new readers).
>
> If anyone is interested in exploring this idea, please send an empty email
> to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and follow the directions
> in the reply.
>
> If anyone knows of such a project already underway, please let me know at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> For more information, see <http://www.pobox.com/~lbudney/linux/mdmh.html>.
>
> Len.
>
> --
> Don't believe anything RFC 1912 says until you've verified it elsewhere.
> -- Dan Bernstein
>

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Len Budney]

"Matthew Patterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Pine has a patch that allows it to use Maildir mailboxes.

Thanks for pointing that out! In fact, the patch is installed in the
version of Pine distributed by RedHat. (However, there is no documentation
of the feature, so nobody will use it.)

> Maybe you could just write something like that for emacs.

The problems with that are (1) I *want* a command-line interface; I use
MH all the time even though it's not my primary mail reader, and (2) I'd
like to see the job done right, once, and other mail reader authors simply
leverage that. (Pipe dream, I know--they'll insist on rolling their own,
whether it works as well or not...)

Len.

--
The impossible dream: Run two mail readers at once!
http://www.pobox.com/~lbudney/linux/mdmh.html

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Robin S. Socha]

* Len Budney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [000825 20:30]:
> "Matthew Patterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[MUAs that support maildir]
> > Maybe you could just write something like that for emacs.
> 
> The problems with that are (1) I *want* a command-line interface; I use
> MH all the time even though it's not my primary mail reader, and (2) I'd
> like to see the job done right, once, and other mail reader authors simply
> leverage that. (Pipe dream, I know--they'll insist on rolling their own,
> whether it works as well or not...)

I don't see the problem, really. Use Gnus http://www.gnus.org/ and
you're there.  Best MUA on earth, anyway. Supports maildir as a
mailsource and now (tentatively reaching beta status) as a native select
method.  It also speaks IMAP, MIME and basically everything else one
needs, runs under any OS known to mankind - and is cruel to lusers.
Perfect.
-- 
Robin S. Socha
http://socha.net/Gnus/

 PGP signature

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Len Budney]

"Robin S. Socha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Len Budney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [000825 20:30]:
> > 
> > The problems with that are (1) I *want* a command-line interface...
> > (2) I'd like to see the job done right, once...
> 
> I don't see the problem, really. Use Gnus http://www.gnus.org/ and
> you're there.

"There" meaning that I'd have an email CLI using maildirs as folders?
I was unaware that GNUS was a CLI; I thought it ran inside Emacs.

> Best MUA on earth, anyway.

Yes, I do like it.

> Supports maildir...(tentatively reaching beta status) as a native select
> method.

I can't find anything about this at the GNUS site. Can you give me a more
specific pointer? If GNUS supports maildir as a folder, then that makes three
such mailers (mutt and Pine being the other two).

Note, though, that I'm only interested in mailers which don't break
concurrency. I'm still evaluating the choices, but they do things which make
me nervous, like using collision-prone file names.

> It also speaks IMAP, MIME and basically everything else one needs...

Although I question the wisdom of mailreaders getting into the MTA/MDA
business.

Len.

--
Run two mailreaders; never lose messages!

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Robin S. Socha]

* Len Budney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Robin S. Socha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> * Len Budney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [000825 20:30]:

>> > The problems with that are (1) I *want* a command-line interface...
>> > (2) I'd like to see the job done right, once...
>>
>> I don't see the problem, really. Use Gnus http://www.gnus.org/ and
>> you're there.

> "There" meaning that I'd have an email CLI using maildirs as folders?
> I was unaware that GNUS was a CLI; I thought it ran inside Emacs.

Go "xemacs -nw -f gnus" in a shell. Happy reading.

>> Supports maildir...(tentatively reaching beta status) as a native
>> select method.

> I can't find anything about this at the GNUS site. Can you give me a
> more specific pointer? 

,
| ; nnmaildir.el: maildir backend for Gnus 
| [...]
| ; an nnmaildir select method looks like this:
| ; '(nnmaildir "whatever" (nnmaildir-groups (("group.name" "/path/to/maildir")
| ;   ("other.group" "/path/to/other"
`

Alternately, you could go:

,
| (setq mail-sources
|   '((maildir :path "/home/robin/Maildir/"
|:subdirs ("cur" "new"
`

> If GNUS supports maildir as a folder, then that makes three such
> mailers (mutt and Pine being the other two).

Pine is not an MUA. Pine is an abomination.

> Note, though, that I'm only interested in mailers which don't break
> concurrency. I'm still evaluating the choices, but they do things
> which make me nervous, like using collision-prone file names.

nnmaildir.el does what you want. However, it's still beta, so you've
been warned.

>> It also speaks IMAP, MIME and basically everything else one needs...

> Although I question the wisdom of mailreaders getting into the MTA/MDA
> business.

Heh, it's XEmacs... as in /vmxemacs :-) ShengHuo Zhu has written
mailwatch.el to make time.el work with maildir (the yellow button
thingy in the grey bar thingy).
-- 
Robin S. Socha 

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Len Budney]

"Robin S. Socha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * Len Budney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > "Robin S. Socha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> * Len Budney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [000825 20:30]:
> 
> >> > The problems with that are (1) I *want* a command-line interface...
> >> > (2) I'd like to see the job done right, once...
> >>
> >> I don't see the problem, really. Use Gnus http://www.gnus.org/ and
> >> you're there.
> 
> > "There" meaning that I'd have an email CLI using maildirs as folders?
> > I was unaware that GNUS was a CLI...
> 
> Go "xemacs -nw -f gnus" in a shell. Happy reading.

Sigh. I'm not sure you know what "command line" means.

% runtime show cur >/dev/null
0.120 sec

% runtime emacs -nw -f save-buffers-kill-emacs
5.053 sec

Emacs is not a command line interface. Although I often use Emacs to
read a buch of messages, I don't feel like taking 42 times too long to
read just *one* message. Advocating emacs to an emacs user, when he
happens to want a CLI, is pretty darned annoying.

Len.

--
The moment you run that, a local attacker can take over your machine.
Isn't security fun?
-- Dan Bernstein

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Chris, the Young One]

Quoted from Len Budney:
> Emacs is not a command line interface. Although I often use Emacs to
> read a buch of messages, I don't feel like taking 42 times too long to
> read just *one* message. Advocating emacs to an emacs user, when he
> happens to want a CLI, is pretty darned annoying.

Okay, go for nmh then (with no frontend). That's hopefully command-line
enough, even though I've never used it myself.

---Chris K.
-- 
 Chris, the Young One |_ but what's a dropped message between friends? 
  Auckland, New Zealand |_ this is UDP, not TCP after all ;) ---John H. 
http://cloud9.hedgee.com/ |_ Robinson, IV  

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Bro. Len Budney]

"Chris, the Young One" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quoted from Len Budney:
> > Emacs is not a command line interface. Although I often use Emacs to
> > read a buch of messages, I don't feel like taking 42 times too long to
> > read just *one* message.
> 
> Okay, go for nmh then (with no frontend). That's hopefully command-line
> enough, even though I've never used it myself.

:) That's where this thread started. I do indeed use MH mail, as well as
front-ends to MH like Mew, GNUs, xmh, etc. And I really miss vmh. However,
MH is not reliable; concurrent deliveries can destroy .mh_sequnces and
(I've heard) can clobber messages.

I want to put together a CLI which uses maildirs as folders, in the
spirit of MH (but not necessarily a clone). I posted to this list to
see if there was any interest. There is a little, but not as much as
I'd rather hoped.

"Maildir MH" is a non-trivial project; it will be a failure (in my view) if
it doesn't fully support concurrent folder access. Anyone interested in
discusssing the subject can join the mailing list; send an empty message to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and follow the directions in the
reply.

Also see .

Len.

--
The concept of ``security-critical'' depends on what you're trying to
protect.
-- Dan Bernstein

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Chris, the Young One]

Quoted from Len Budney:
> I want to put together a CLI which uses maildirs as folders, in the
> spirit of MH (but not necessarily a clone). I posted to this list to
> see if there was any interest. There is a little, but not as much as
> I'd rather hoped.

I'd be interested. nmh appears to be under a BSD-style licence, so it
should be okay to adapt; I rather like certain nmh-isms, like ``repl
-group'' that obeys Mail-Followup-To.

Yes, I'll join the mailing list. I must get to grips with how MH works,
but after that it shouldn't be hard... I hope. You say Maildir MH is not
trivial; I'd like to find out why.


Writing to a Maildir is trivial; I've written a Perl script to do it
(yep, I saw your page for safecat too). I wrote mine before I heard of
safecat, and before procmail 3.14 (which had Maildir support), but it
has a forwarding feature, so that if the ``mailbox'' contains a @
character the message gets forwarded.

That last feature is so that you can do this in a .procmailrc:

SENDMAIL=${HOME}/bin/deliver
SENDMAILFLAGS=

:1
* Delivered-To:.* qmail@list\.cr\.yp\.to
!qmail

and not completely botch the use of ``!'' for forwarding.

The script is at http://pub.hedgee.com/scripts/perl/deliver; I use
syscall() to get fsync to work in Perl.


---Chris K.
-- 
 Chris, the Young One |_ If you can't afford a backup system, you can't 
  Auckland, New Zealand |_ afford to have important data on your computer. 
http://cloud9.hedgee.com/ |_ ---Tracy R. Reed  

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Peter van Dijk]

On Wed, Aug 30, 2000 at 01:02:00AM +1200, Chris, the Young One wrote:
> Quoted from Len Budney:
> > I want to put together a CLI which uses maildirs as folders, in the
> > spirit of MH (but not necessarily a clone). I posted to this list to
> > see if there was any interest. There is a little, but not as much as
> > I'd rather hoped.
> 
> I'd be interested. nmh appears to be under a BSD-style licence, so it
> should be okay to adapt; I rather like certain nmh-isms, like ``repl
> -group'' that obeys Mail-Followup-To.

Hmm cool.

> Yes, I'll join the mailing list. I must get to grips with how MH works,
> but after that it shouldn't be hard... I hope. You say Maildir MH is not
> trivial; I'd like to find out why.

Len put up an excellent paper on his page. I read it over a traintrip in
the weekend, it gave me a good view on how MH works.

> 
> Writing to a Maildir is trivial; I've written a Perl script to do it
> (yep, I saw your page for safecat too). I wrote mine before I heard of
> safecat, and before procmail 3.14 (which had Maildir support), but it

So trivial that procmail gets it *completely* wrong and allows for
clobbering, even in a Maildir. I contacted a co-worker of the author,
and I'll see to it that this bug gets fixed in procmail.

[snip]

The non-trivial part is in stuff like message numbering. A file like
mh_sequence (that seems to be used for just that) is easily clobbered
indeed.

Greetz, Peter.
-- 
[ircoper][EMAIL PROTECTED] - Peter van Dijk / Hardbeat
[student]Undernet:#groningen/wallops | IRCnet:/#alliance
[developer]_
[disbeliever - the world is backwards](__VuurWerk__(--*-

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Len Budney]

"Chris, the Young One" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quoted from Len Budney:
> > I want to put together a CLI which uses maildirs as folders, in the
> > spirit of MH (but not necessarily a clone).
> 
> I'd be interested...Yes, I'll join the mailing list.

Cool!

> I must get to grips with how MH works, but after that it shouldn't be
> hard... I hope.

Well, not too terribly hard. Hmm...it's just now occurring to me that not
many people are already familiar with MH. It was the default at Syracuse
University (until they switched to Pine), so I sort of assumed that every
one had used it at some point in their lives...Don't I feel like a dinosaur.

The paper that Peter van Dijk mentioned is "How to Process 200
Messages a Day and Still Get Some Real Work Done"; it's available from
.

Len.

--
"Accept incoming mail? Changes to inbox will be discarded!"
Okay? Cancel? None of the above:
http://www.pobox.com/~lbudney/linux/mdmh.html

Re: Off-Topic: Maildirs as folders

[Chris Garrigues]

> From:  "Len Budney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:  Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:30:50 -0400 (EDT)
>
> "Chris, the Young One" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Quoted from Len Budney:
> > > I want to put together a CLI which uses maildirs as folders, in the
> > > spirit of MH (but not necessarily a clone).
> > 
> > I'd be interested...Yes, I'll join the mailing list.
> 
> Cool!
> 
> > I must get to grips with how MH works, but after that it shouldn't be
> > hard... I hope.
> 
> Well, not too terribly hard. Hmm...it's just now occurring to me that not
> many people are already familiar with MH. It was the default at Syracuse
> University (until they switched to Pine), so I sort of assumed that every
> one had used it at some point in their lives...Don't I feel like a dinosaur.

As an exmh user, I think it would be nice if its UI were close enough to MH 
that exmh could be made to work with it.

I'd actually thought about a re-coding of MH in Perl once upon a time, but 
I only got as far as the 'scan' command before I decided it wasn't going to be 
fast enough for use.

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO  http://www.virCIO.Com
4314 Avenue C   
Austin, TX  78751-3709  +1 512 374 0500

  My email address is an experiment in SPAM elimination.  For an
  explanation of what we're doing, see http://www.DeepEddy.Com/tms.html 

Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft,
  but they could get fired for relying on Microsoft.



 PGP signature

Re: Completely off topic: supervise cron?

[Jos Backus]

On Wed, Jun 09, 1999 at 04:26:11PM +0200, Chris Garrigues wrote:
> Would it work to run cron under supervise?

All cron's I know daemonize themselves (by, say, double-forking and
disassociating themselves from their ctty). Hence: no.

-- 
Jos Backus  _/ _/_/_/  "Reliability means never
   _/ _/   _/   having to say you're sorry."
  _/ _/_/_/ -- D. J. Bernstein
 _/  _/ _/_/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  _/_/  _/_/_/  use Std::Disclaimer;

Re: Completely off topic: supervise cron?

[Anonymous]

>> On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 09:26:11 -0500, 
>> "Chris Garrigues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

C> I've got a system on which cron keeps dying.  Would it work to run cron
C> under supervise?

   Probably, but I'd recommend fixing the root problem by replacing your
   cron with something more robust.  I had the same problem under
   Solaris-2.5.1, and replaced the system cron with another version called
   "dcron":
   ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/daemons/cron/dcron-2.3.3.tar.gz

   As it turns out, something I did was causing cron to die periodically,
   but I still like the new one better:

   a. I can schedule jobs to run every 5 minutes starting 3 minutes after
  the hour by using something like this in the "minutes" field: 3-58/5

   b. I use accustamp, tailocal, and cyclog to handle all logging, so I
  don't have to restart cron just to clean up log files.

   c. It's written very cleanly, and it's smaller than Vixie-cron.

   I had to add some code to make it work under Solaris.  If anyone's
   interested, let me know.

-- 
Karl Vogel
ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433, USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  or  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I was thrown out of college for cheating on the metaphysics
exam; I looked into the soul of the boy next to me.  --Woody Allen

Re: List manager! Off topic... Sorry!

[Fred Lindberg]

On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:51:24 -0500, Geordon VanTassle wrote:

>Sorry to waste the bandwidth, but I need to know if the QMAIL list is set 
>up to do digests.  My mail-server is getting mad at me. :)

No - but I have a sublist that sends out a daily (at 1100 UTC) digest.
To subscribe, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

If you ever need to unsubscribe, mail the address in the
"List-Unsubscribe" header of the digest (it contains your subscription
address, so it will always work).


-Sincerely, Fred

(Frederik Lindberg, Infectious Diseases, WashU, St. Louis, MO, USA)

Re: Completely off topic: supervise cron?

[Anonymous]

> From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date:  9 Jun 1999 13:38:21 -0400
>
> >> On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 09:26:11 -0500, 
> >> "Chris Garrigues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> 
> C> I've got a system on which cron keeps dying.  Would it work to run cron
> C> under supervise?
> 
>Probably, but I'd recommend fixing the root problem by replacing your
>cron with something more robust.  I had the same problem under
>Solaris-2.5.1, and replaced the system cron with another version called
>"dcron":
>ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/daemons/cron/dcron-2.3.3.tar.gz
> 
>As it turns out, something I did was causing cron to die periodically,
>but I still like the new one better:
> 
>a. I can schedule jobs to run every 5 minutes starting 3 minutes after
>   the hour by using something like this in the "minutes" field: 3-58/5

I don't need that, but cute nevertheless.

>b. I use accustamp, tailocal, and cyclog to handle all logging, so I
>   don't have to restart cron just to clean up log files.

So you're saying dcron works with djb's tools?

>c. It's written very cleanly, and it's smaller than Vixie-cron.

That's a plus.

I've been hoping not to modify the distribution too much since I have to 
replicate it, but you're making a pretty good case.  I'll take a look.  Do you 
know if it's been RPM'd?

Chris


-- 
Chris Garrigues virCIO
+1 512 432 4046 4314 Avenue CO-
http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/   Austin, TX  78751-3709
+1 512 374 0500

  My email address is an experiment in SPAM elimination.  For an
  explanation of what we're doing, see http://www.DeepEddy.Com/tms.html 

Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft,
  but they could get fired for relying on Microsoft.



 PGP signature

Re: Off topic - What is GFY?

[Vern Hart]

On Fri, 2 Jul 1999, McGinnis, Tom wrote:
> 
> I've tried and tried, but can't seem to figure out why "GFY" is so
> offensive.  Obviously I haven't figured out the real meaning.  "Good for
> you" is all I can come up with.

When I first saw it, I too thought it was "Good For You" but based on
whats-his-name's reaction to it I've come to realize it has a more
existential meaning such as "Go Find Yourself" or something equally as
meaningful.  ;-)

Cheers,
Vern
-- 
\ \   / __| _ \  \ |   Vern Hart
 \ \ /  _|/ .  |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  \_/  ___|_|_\_|\_|

Re: Off topic - What is GFY?

[Adam D . McKenna]

Ah, now you've pinpointed the logic behind my use of an acronym..  (they're
so fun!)

Alex assumed that the acronym stood for some sort of insult or profanity.
Why?  If you'll read the paragraph that I was replying to, you can tell that
it was blatant flamebait.  Alex proved this with his reaction.

--Adam

On Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 03:20:36PM -0400, McGinnis, Tom wrote:
> I've tried and tried, but can't seem to figure out why "GFY" is so
> offensive.  Obviously I haven't figured out the real meaning.  "Good for
> you" is all I can come up with.
> 
> -Tom
> 

RE: Off topic - What is GFY?

[Alex Miller]

> Alex assumed that the acronym stood for some sort of insult or profanity.
> Why?  If you'll read the paragraph that I was replying to, you
> can tell that
> it was blatant flamebait.  Alex proved this with his reaction.

Actually Adam,

I proposed making a web site

In your negative response you wrote GFY.

That was your PUBLIC response here on this list.

Your PRIVATE email to me regarding making the
web site was hardly "Good For You" and you know it.

There are two kinds of people. Honest people and dishonest people.

Do your really want me to post your private email to me,
the one which clarifies you allegedly "Good For You"
attitude toward the creation of that particular web site
with that particular content?

Alex Miller

> -Original Message-
> From: Adam D . McKenna [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 3:46 PM
> To: McGinnis, Tom
> Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: Re: Off topic - What is GFY?
>
>
> Ah, now you've pinpointed the logic behind my use of an acronym..
>  (they're
> so fun!)
>
> Alex assumed that the acronym stood for some sort of insult or profanity.
> Why?  If you'll read the paragraph that I was replying to, you
> can tell that
> it was blatant flamebait.  Alex proved this with his reaction.
>
> --Adam
>
> On Fri, Jul 02, 1999 at 03:20:36PM -0400, McGinnis, Tom wrote:
> > I've tried and tried, but can't seem to figure out why "GFY" is so
> > offensive.  Obviously I haven't figured out the real meaning.  "Good for
> > you" is all I can come up with.
> >
> > -Tom
> >
>

RE: Off topic - What is GFY?

[Scott D. Yelich]

On Fri, 2 Jul 1999, Alex Miller wrote:
> In your negative response you wrote GFY.
> That was your PUBLIC response here on this list.
> Your PRIVATE email to me regarding making the
> web site was hardly "Good For You" and you know it.
> There are two kinds of people. Honest people and dishonest people.
> 
> Do your really want me to post your private email to me,
> the one which clarifies you allegedly "Good For You"
> attitude toward the creation of that particular web site
> with that particular content?
> 
> Alex Miller

Please send it to me.  I'm archiving all of this.  I've also noted a
vast different in what people say publically to this list and what they
say privately.  However, for me, it's always been that I've witnessed
great rudeness on the list and amazing politeness in private.

I'll have to say that *all* of the email that I have received privately
has been polite and much more of what I would expect to receive from
this list.  There are a lot of good people here -- but there are some
really obnioxious people too (you can label me how ever you want).

Scott

Re: off-topic: include file des.h

[Racer X]

>From your address I can see that you aren't in the US or Canada, and despite
the recent changes in encryption law, I don't think I could send this to
you.

But besides just that, you haven't specified what OS or version you're
using.  You'll also need the library that contains those crypt functions,
not just the header file.  This is also probably not legal to distribute,
inside or outside the US.

Finally, this message is pretty clearly off-topic unless you're trying to do
something with crypt and qmail, and you haven't said what you're trying to
do exactly.

shag
=
Judd Bourgeois|   CNM Network  +1 (805) 520-7170
Software Architect|   1900 Los Angeles Avenue, 2nd Floor
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   |   Simi Valley, CA 93065

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

- Original Message -
From: Ari Arantes Filho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Fri 17 Dec 1999 14.17
Subject: off-topic: include file des.h


> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to work with a crypt system and the program is asking for
include
> des.h.
>
> Can anyone send this file to me?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ari
>
>
>
>

Re: off-topic: Dan's engineering methods

[Sam]

Len Budney writes:

> Apologies for this slightly off-topic post.
> 
> Has Dan has revealed enough about his engineering methods for others
> to duplicate them? Does anybody want to, possibly producing sharable
> tools?

There are already existing tools out there that produce perfectly reusable
and recyclable code, which have been battleproven, and can easily handle
huge projects made out of modular parts.  I have four projects, in which an
average of 50% of the code is shared amongst all four of them, and is
organized into about a dozen different subdirectories.

> The big open question for me is:
> 
>   1. What does he use for source control, given that he builds in one
>  directory, and bundles the same libraries with many packages? How
>  is the repository organized? CVS etc. like hierarchies.

Initially RCS worked fine for me.  In each directory of a shared module, I
simply set RCS to be a soft link pointing to a common directory.

However, lately due to increased complexity I upgraded to CVS, so that
changes to any shared code can be automatically propagated via one cvs
update, instead of having to remember to RCS co each individual file from
the shared RCS repository, for each project.  Any time I switch projects I
just do a cvs update, and I'm all set.  

And, because CVS is just a shell on top of RCS, moving to CVS was virtually
a no-op.

>   2. The ezmlm package contains files of form *=* which give a strong
>  hint how his makefiles are generated [2].

That's nasically a simplified version of what autoconf and automake does. 
They are standardized tools that everyone knows how to use.  There's an
initial steep learning curve, but, after a while, it becomes as natural as
breathing.

>   3. Dan appears to track "functional units" of code, and appears to
>  incorporate them into projects as units [5]. Perhaps using CVS
>  modules or the like?

Easily handled via CVS, with autoconf and automake.  Take a look at
sqwebmail - http://www.inter7.com/sqwebmail/, courier-imap -
http://www.inter7.com/courierimap/, and maildrop -
http://www.flounder.net/~mrsam/maildrop/.  All three tools reuse about a
dozen functional modules, which are stored only once, in a single
repository.  At any given time, actually, there might be very minor
differences in the same module within each individual package simply due to
the fact I don't package them as a tarball simultaneously, but only when
there's a functional upgrade.

But, ignoring those minor differences, although the base source code within
all three projects is identical, in some cases the autoconf/automake
scripts end up configuring the same module quite differently.   For
example, look at the authlib library.  Because Courier-IMAP includes the
libhmac module, authlib detects it and compiles some code that implements
CRAM-MD5 authentication, which uses the code from libhmac.  The same
authlib module does not compile the CRAM-MD5 code when it is packaged as
part of sqwebmail, because sqwebmail does not include the libhmac library,
and it has no need for CRAM-MD5 authentication.

I just noticed that maildrop does not include the md5 module, because I
haven't worked on maildrop for a while, and haven't updated it.  Therefore,
the userdb virtual account module can only set crypted passwords for the
userdb virtual account database.  Simply adding the md5 module to the
maildrop build will result in userdb reconfiguring itself to offer an
option of storing passwords encrypted with the MD5 hash function,
permitting longer passwords.

>   4. All sources go into one directory; Perhaps because recursion defeats
>  make's dependency checks [3,4]? Perhaps because many tools don't like
>  to build things in subdirectories? Perhaps because his packages
>  are pretty small, so it just doesn't matter?

It's quite convenient to package standalone modules as individual
subdirectory that can be plonked into any project, and have a top-level
configure script configure it.  autoconf and automake have the necessary
resources to build a module hierarchy, so there's no need to badger djb for
this tools, since equivalent capabilities have been available in autoconf
and automake for years...


-- 
Sam

Re: off-topic: Dan's engineering methods

[Len Budney]

Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are already existing tools out there

Read what I wrote, including references. Reading the archives, I
already learned your opinion. You argued at length that autoconf and
automake are better. That wasn't my question.

> the necessary resources to build a module hierarchy

.
Peter Miller argues cogently why recursive make subverts dependency
checks.  His solution is GNU-make dependent, which subverts portability.
Probably on purpose, Dan's method solves the same problem yet is portable.

> It's quite convenient to package standalone modules as individual
> subdirectory

I already know that. I also know how common it is to link against the
wrong version of a library. "rm config.cache" (your suggestion) and/or
"make distclean" (Russ Allbery's) are not the right way to ensure
correct dependencies. Make, a triumph of AI, was designed for that
purpose already.

Len.

Re: off-topic: Dan's engineering methods

[Russell Nelson]

Sam writes:
 > > "rm config.cache" (your suggestion) and/or
 > > "make distclean" (Russ Allbery's) are not the right way to ensure
 > > correct dependencies. Make, a triumph of AI, was designed for that
 > > purpose already.
 > 
 > And, it happens to work rather well, for everyone concerned except for
 > some grandiose theorists who are perpetually after Andy Rooney's job.

Oh?  I've had it fail on me multiple times.  *I* need to know enough
about the program to know when to rm config.cache.  With Dan's method
of full dependencies, and just-in-time building of shell scripts and
include files, doesn't require me to be smart.  And I appreciate the
ability to just say "make".

-- 
-russ nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  http://russnelson.com
Crynwr sells support for free software  | PGPok | "Ask not what your country
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | can force other people to
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   | do for you..."  -Perry M.

Re: off-topic: Dan's engineering methods

[Len Budney]

Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You question was how to create and use reusable code modules.  I told
> you how.

I'm sorry to see that you can't read.

  Has Dan has revealed enough about his engineering methods for others
  to duplicate them? Does anybody want to, possibly producing sharable
  tools? Given the quality of his results, his methods might be worth
  imitating.   ^^
  ^^

> > I already know that. I also know how common it is to link against
> > the wrong version of a library.
> 
> Really?  Has that happened to you, or are you just theorizing again?

It is indeed a major source of support calls from IT departments [1],
yes. "Did you try 'make distclean;make'?" When I have enough influence
on a project, I make sure that Makefiles have an 'over' target, which
depends on 'distclean' and 'all'. Customers quickly adopt the
convention of trying 'make over'.

If make could check dependencies accurately, this would not be
necessary. Make was designed to save time [2]; it should do the right
thing. Rebuilding _everything_ (or just the libraries), every time,
because make can't see all dependencies, is asinine. For that a trivial
shell script would suffice.

Len.

PS Unless you learn to read, I will not reply to you again. I don't want
to waste everyone's time--this stuff has been explained to you before.

--
[1] I generally work for systems integrators. Our customers, steel
mills and such, still have IT departments. They demand source code
with deliverables, and have for over 20 years. They handle maintenance
in-house, using the integrators for support.

[2] Dan's configuration trick works an order of magnitude faster than
autoconf. Screwing with dependencies means another iteration of 
'rm config.cache;./configure;make' which incurs the cost all over again;
Dan's way, the right dependencies are rechecked. Build time is
dramatically faster Dan's way than yours. Which is what make was built
for.

Re: off-topic: Dan's engineering methods

[Sam]

Len Budney writes:

> Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You question was how to create and use reusable code modules.  I told
> > you how.
> 
> I'm sorry to see that you can't read.
> 
>   Has Dan has revealed enough about his engineering methods for others
>   to duplicate them? Does anybody want to, possibly producing sharable
>   tools? Given the quality of his results, his methods might be worth
>   imitating.   ^^
>   ^^

I'm sorry to see that you can't understand.  His "methods" have already
been "imitated" thousands of times already, by thousands of people.

Whether you like it, or not, autoconf and automake does everything that
those mythical tools can, and they offer far more features, and are far
more portable.

> > > I already know that. I also know how common it is to link against
> > > the wrong version of a library.
> > 
> > Really?  Has that happened to you, or are you just theorizing again?
> 
> It is indeed a major source of support calls from IT departments [1],
> yes. "Did you try 'make distclean;make'?" When I have enough influence
> on a project, I make sure that Makefiles have an 'over' target, which
> depends on 'distclean' and 'all'. Customers quickly adopt the
> convention of trying 'make over'.

That's simply due to poor software design, and improperly built makes.  If
that's your problem, hire better programmers.

> If make could check dependencies accurately, this would not be

It does.  The problem is that the designer did not specify the dependencies
correctly.  Make does not pull dependencies out of thin air; they have to
be explicitly defined.  If you think there's a bug in there, file a bug
report.

> necessary. Make was designed to save time [2]; it should do the right
> thing. Rebuilding _everything_ (or just the libraries), every time,
> because make can't see all dependencies, is asinine. For that a trivial

Who said that this is what has to be done?  Not me.  If you don't know how
to write a makefile, that's not my problem.

> shell script would suffice.
> 
> Len.
> 
> PS Unless you learn to read, I will not reply to you again. I don't want
> to waste everyone's time--this stuff has been explained to you before.

Extreme foolishness and naivete will remain to be extreme foolishness, and
naivete, no matter how many times it is repeated.

I suppose that if what you want to do is to beg and plead for DJB to
"release" mythical and wondrous tools from God, that don't really exist,
choosing to ignore better, more portable tools, solely due to misplaced
feelings of hero worship, then I suppose you can go right ahead, and I
won't stop you.

> --
> [1] I generally work for systems integrators. Our customers, steel
> mills and such, still have IT departments. They demand source code
> with deliverables, and have for over 20 years. They handle maintenance
> in-house, using the integrators for support.

Is this the time where I should drop to my knees, in amazement?

> [2] Dan's configuration trick works an order of magnitude faster than
> autoconf.

That's because there's nothing to "configure", really.  All qmail needs is
a C compiler, so there's very little configuration required.

It's pretty easy to claim easy configuration, when there isn't much to
configure in the first place.

>  Screwing with dependencies means another iteration of 
> 'rm config.cache;./configure;make' which incurs the cost all over again;

Sorry to confuse you with facts, but automake-generated makefiles actually
do all of that for you.

> Dan's way, the right dependencies are rechecked. Build time is
> dramatically faster Dan's way than yours. Which is what make was built
> for.

You don't really know that, since you're begging to see what those tools
really are.  You're just speculating.

-- 
Sam

Off Topic - Lotus Notes x Qmail

[Gustavo Zambon Rozatti]

        Does anyone 
has already integrated Notes and Qmail on the same domain?
        On my work we 
have 2 mail servers MS-Mail and Lotus Notes and we'll migrate them both to one 
bigger running Qmail (after a happy experience on a branch office), but I'll do 
this one at a time the first will be MS-Mail (no problems at this part, the 
MS-Mail SMTP gateway just worked fine).
        The problem 
is that the Notes server is the one that sends and receives internet mail and it 
must keep working until everyone was changed from one server to the other (It 
will take a few weeks). When I setup Qmail and Notes with the same domain Notes 
just ignores any message from the Qmail machine, if i setup different domains 
between them it just works fine.
        If someone 
has any idea please help me, I already convinced my boss, who hated Linux and 
free software, to switch from his Windows NT runnig Notes to Linux running 
Qmail. Now I got to make it work :)
 
 
        Thank's 

 
Gustavo Z. Rozatti

Off Topic: call a perl script

[Carlo Gibertini]

Hello,

I need to call a perl script every time a message arrives at one mail box on
qmail.

reading the docs I found that creating a .qmail file in the directory of the
user with "|/my_program" will call the program.

This work but I cannot receive the message in stdin...
(Obs: my perl is very bad too)

If some good soul can send me a example perl script that gets the content of
the message, i will apreciate...


thanks,

Carlo

Re: OFF-TOPIC (Dan's DNS servers)

[James Raftery]

On Wed, Jun 14, 2000 at 05:25:39PM +0800, Michael Boman wrote:
> I remeber that one part of Dan's DNS software can reply different IP's
> depending on where you are comming from.. could someone please remind me
> what part of the DNS software that is?

Hi Michael,

That sounds like pickdns: http://cr.yp.to/dnscache/pickdns.html

Regards,

james
-- 
James Raftery (JBR54)  -  Programmer Hostmaster  -  IE TLD Hostmaster
   IE Domain Registry  -  www.domainregistry.ie  -  (+353 1) 706 2375
  "Managing 4000 customer domains with BIND has been a lot like
   herding cats." - Mike Batchelor, on [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Is identd required ? [ possibly off topic ]

[Greg Cope]

Dear All

This may be offtopic but here goes ...

I've an old box resurected as a qmail server for a small office.  It
only has 16 meg of ram, but seems to cope quite well.  Until this
morning! (log entries below):

The machine appears to have been flood via Ident requests - This smells
of a DOS via Identd to me 

Is not running identd (its run as a daemon from /etc/rc.d/) for a smtp
box going to cause problems ?

Has anyone else seen such issues on a low memory qmail server / redhat
6.2 box ?

I have no other problems with other redhat / qmail boxes of different
vintages (although they all have more ram). 

Any clues greatfully recieved.

Greg Cope


### log entries ###


Jun 27 08:24:04 mailgate identd[10709]: request_thread: read(11, ...,
1023) failed: Connection reset by peer
Jun 27 08:24:10 mailgate identd[10719]: request_thread: read(11, ...,
1023) failed: Connection reset by peer
Jun 27 08:24:32 mailgate inetd[325]: fork: Cannot allocate memory
Jun 27 08:25:18 mailgate last message repeated 6 times
Jun 27 08:26:40 mailgate last message repeated 9 times
Jun 27 08:27:25 mailgate last message repeated 9 times
Jun 27 08:27:27 mailgate inetd[325]: accept (for telnet): No buffer
space available
Jun 27 08:27:27 mailgate last message repeated 559 times
Jun 27 08:27:27 mailgate inetd[325]: fork: Cannot allocate memory
Jun 27 08:28:01 mailgate last message repeated 4 times
Jun 27 08:29:26 mailgate last message repeated 6 times
Jun 27 08:30:47 mailgate last message repeated 5 times
Jun 27 08:31:55 mailgate last message repeated 4 times

Jun 27 08:33:57 mailgate syslogd 1.3-3: restart. <--- machine
unresponsive so "bounced"

Re: IP spoofed spam - off topic

[Alex Pennace]

On Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 04:00:32PM -0500, mick wrote:
> hello, sorry for the off topic post. 
> real quick; had a server x.x.x.110 running sendmail.
> getting complaints of spam originating from that box.
> removed IP, still getting complaints.
> turned system off, still getting complaints.
> 
> Can an IP be spoofed so totally in mail headers?
> headers:
>   Received: from mailserv01.dartgc.com ([207.34.255.70])
> by southwind.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21910
> for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
>   Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Received: from ngqjz.msn.com ([x.x.x.110]) by
>   mailserv01.dartgc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail
>   Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
> id H5VRZ1Y1; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:09:20 -0400

How is anyone supposed to give you a sure answer if you munge/hide
relevant information?

Re: IP spoofed spam - off topic

[mick]

The system is off, and has had that ip removed. It no longer belongs to a
functioning system. 207.179.205.110 if it helps.

On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Alex Pennace wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 04:00:32PM -0500, mick wrote:
> > hello, sorry for the off topic post. 
> > real quick; had a server x.x.x.110 running sendmail.
> > getting complaints of spam originating from that box.
> > removed IP, still getting complaints.
> > turned system off, still getting complaints.
> > 
> > Can an IP be spoofed so totally in mail headers?
> > headers:
> >   Received: from mailserv01.dartgc.com ([207.34.255.70])
> > by southwind.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21910
> > for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
> >   Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
> >   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >   Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >   Received: from ngqjz.msn.com ([x.x.x.110]) by
> >   mailserv01.dartgc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail
> >   Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
> > id H5VRZ1Y1; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:09:20 -0400
> 
> How is anyone supposed to give you a sure answer if you munge/hide
> relevant information?
> 
> 

*
Mick Dobra
Systems Administrator
MTCO Communications
1-800-859-6826
*

Re: IP spoofed spam - off topic

[mick]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Alex Pennace wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 04:00:32PM -0500, mick wrote:
> > hello, sorry for the off topic post. 
> > real quick; had a server x.x.x.110 running sendmail.
> > getting complaints of spam originating from that box.
> > removed IP, still getting complaints.
> > turned system off, still getting complaints.
> > 
> > Can an IP be spoofed so totally in mail headers?
> > headers:
> >   Received: from mailserv01.dartgc.com ([207.34.255.70])
> > by southwind.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21910
> > for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
> >   Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
> >   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >   Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >   Received: from ngqjz.msn.com ([x.x.x.110]) by
> >   mailserv01.dartgc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail
> >   Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
> > id H5VRZ1Y1; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:09:20 -0400
> 
> How is anyone supposed to give you a sure answer if you munge/hide
> relevant information?

As an additional note: Looks like every system receiving the spam are
Exchange servers. Is someone exploiting an exchange fault? 

*
Mick Dobra
Systems Administrator
MTCO Communications
1-800-859-6826
*

Re: IP spoofed spam - off topic

[Charles Cazabon]

mick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Can an IP be spoofed so totally in mail headers?

Short answer:  yes.  Spammers are getting better at spoofing mail headers, as
misguided "spam protection" features in MTAs force them to.

Long answer:  can't analyze the situation properly when you munge header
information.  You might try running the headers through SpamCop or SamSpade to
see if they can detect the header forgery.

Charles
-- 
---
Charles Cazabon<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GPL'ed software available at:  http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/
Any opinions expressed are just that -- my opinions.
---

Re: IP spoofed spam - off topic

[mick]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Charles Cazabon wrote:

> mick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > Can an IP be spoofed so totally in mail headers?
> 
> Short answer:  yes.  Spammers are getting better at spoofing mail headers, as
> misguided "spam protection" features in MTAs force them to.
> 
> Long answer:  can't analyze the situation properly when you munge header
> information.  You might try running the headers through SpamCop or SamSpade to
> see if they can detect the header forgery.
>

munge the headers? that was a direct copy from the spamcop message! I
changed the ip address because that ip (and the server it used to be
on) is no longer operational. but thats it. 207.179.205.110 was the
address.
 
> Charles

*
Mick Dobra
Systems Administrator
MTCO Communications
1-800-859-6826
*

Re: IP spoofed spam - off topic

[Chris Garrigues]

> From:  mick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:  Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:00:54 -0500 (CDT)
>
> hello, sorry for the off topic post. 
> real quick; had a server x.x.x.110 running sendmail.
> getting complaints of spam originating from that box.
> removed IP, still getting complaints.
> turned system off, still getting complaints.
> 
> Can an IP be spoofed so totally in mail headers?
> headers:
>   Received: from mailserv01.dartgc.com ([207.34.255.70])
> by southwind.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21910
> for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
>   Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Received: from ngqjz.msn.com ([x.x.x.110]) by
>   mailserv01.dartgc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail
>   Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
>     id H5VRZ1Y1; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:09:20 -0400
> 
> Again, sorry for the off topic post, and thanks.

Who controls 207.34.255.70 and is it really mailserv01.dartgc.com?

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO  http://www.virCIO.Com
4314 Avenue C   
Austin, TX  78751-3709  +1 512 374 0500

  My email address is an experiment in SPAM elimination.  For an
  explanation of what we're doing, see http://www.DeepEddy.Com/tms.html 

Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft,
  but they could get fired for relying on Microsoft.



 PGP signature

RE: Qmail and ColdFusion Problem (off topic?)

[M.B.]

> -Original Message-
> From: James Moore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 8:28 AM
> Subject: Qmail and ColdFusion Problem (off topic?)
> 
> I have coldfusion 4.51 on Windows NT with Apache.  The Mail tag in 
> coldfusion is pointing at my qmail smtp server.  It seems that qmail 
> is rejecting mail from the coldfusion application server because it 
> does not have line feeds in the email.  Has anyone heard of this 
> problem?  I have not been able to find anything on allaire's web site.
> 
We have Oracle servers sending reports that do (did) the same thing.
If nobody can change the formatting of the message, try changing the
tcpserver line of your outbound smtp server(s) to include fixcr (from the 
tcpserver tarball). After I did that, the DBA came and asked if something
changed because he all of a sudden started getting his reports.

/usr/local/bin/tcpserver -c 550 -x /etc/security/tcprules/rules.cdb \
-u 25414 -g 104 0 smtp sh -c 'fixcr | /var/qmail/bin/qmail-smtpd' &

Mike.


NetZero Free Internet Access and Email_
Download Now http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
Request a CDROM  1-800-333-3633
___

Mail agent for Windows (totaly off topic)

[Goran Blazic]

Hi you all...

I must say I'm having trouble each day, because I have to think twice about
replying to the list... And usually I don't, but reply off-list... The
reason for this is that I'm using Outlook... I have to, I get paid to use
it... :-)
Now my question... Is there a "friendly" mail agent that runs under Windows?
If it's small... hey, just the better...

Thanks and sorry for disturbing you all with this... Goran

egrave - Slovenskih fantov elektronski grob

off-topic, MUA to mail system files

[Eric Dahnke]

Hello,

How do you folks mail system files (say logs for example)?


I can do it from the shell with 

 mail user -s Subject 
 ~r/tmp/filename
 .

But I can't get it to work from a script. I can't figure out how to give 
it the EOF. I've tried everything in the mail man pages, but no luck.

TIA - eric

__
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Re: slightly off topic (inetd and qmail)

[Rask Ingemann Lambertsen]

On 21-Dec-98 21:10:29, David Ressman wrote something about "slightly off topic (inetd 
and qmail)". I just couldn't help replying to it, thus:
> This isn't so much of a problem as an oddity.  I'm wondering if any of
> you have seen this before.  Qmail is installed and is working perfectly,
> but whenever I try to make an outgoing smtp connection to someplace that
> does an ident lookup, the connection will pause for 7-15 seconds and then
> does the ident lookup.  I know that's not very clear, so I've included
> some tcpdump output:
[cut]

   Smells like DNS problems (and indeed neither myhost nor remotehost resolve
from here).

Regards,

/¯¯T¯\
| Rask Ingemann Lambertsen | [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
| Registered Phase5 developer  | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/   |
| A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64)  | "ThrustMe" on XPilot and EFnet IRC  |
|  Machine-independent:  Does not run on any existing machine.   |

[Off-topic] Simplicity (Re: What's a DSN?)

[Harald Hanche-Olsen]

+ "Chris Garrigues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

| Simplicity is good.  Isn't there a quote along the line of "as
| simple as possible, but no simpler"?

Albert Einstein:
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
or
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler."

I found one version in two Einstein quote collections on the web, and
the other in two others.  Who knows which, if any (or both), is
correct?  But can be little doubt that he said something like it.

- Harald

Re: passwd and user quota [off-topic]

[Tomek Lipski]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Jan 2000, Anand Buddhdev wrote:
> 
> > search is still linear. The BSDs on the other hand make a DB database
> > out of the /etc/passwd, and so it's much faster to lookup.
> 
> really, one should qualify what version of BSD you mean here. if I dig up
> a system running BSD 4.2 or 4.3 will it really store the password in a
> database? I think not.
hmm.. who is installing 4.2 or 4.3 BSD nowadays ? all major versions of 
*BSD are running on 4.4 BSD for quite a long time. :)

Tomasz Lipski

Re: Off Topic: call a perl script

[Jedi/Sector One]

Carlo Gibertini a écrit :
> If some good soul can send me a example perl script that gets the content of
> the message, i will apreciate...

#! /usr/local/bin/perl -w
while (<>) {
  /microsoft/oi && exit 100
}

  What is the exact content of your .qmail file ? Did you check Qmail
logs ?

  Best regards,
-- 
 Frank DENIS aka Jedi/Sector One aka DJ Chrysalis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-> Software : http://www.jedi.claranet.fr <-
 -> Music : http://www.mp3.com/chrysalis <-

Re: Off Topic: call a perl script

[Jedi/Sector One]

Carlo Gibertini a écrit :
> user with "|/my_program" will call the program.

"| ./my_program" would be better.

-- 
 Frank DENIS aka Jedi/Sector One aka DJ Chrysalis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-> Software : http://www.jedi.claranet.fr <-
 -> Music : http://www.mp3.com/chrysalis <-

Re: Is identd required ? [ possibly off topic ]

[Rogue Eagle]

Greg,
   I have never run identd on my qmail server, and
I've never had any problems.  We're using a P75 with
32MB.  

I don't think it's anything to worry about.  In fact,
I drop any packets coming in on port 113 (identd).

Just my .02.
Steve

--- Greg Cope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Dear All
> 
> This may be offtopic but here goes ...
> 
> I've an old box resurected as a qmail server for a
> small office.  It
> only has 16 meg of ram, but seems to cope quite
> well.  Until this
> morning! (log entries below):
> 
> The machine appears to have been flood via Ident
> requests - This smells
> of a DOS via Identd to me 
> 
> Is not running identd (its run as a daemon from
> /etc/rc.d/) for a smtp
> box going to cause problems ?
> 
> Has anyone else seen such issues on a low memory
> qmail server / redhat
> 6.2 box ?
> 
> I have no other problems with other redhat / qmail
> boxes of different
> vintages (although they all have more ram). 
> 
> Any clues greatfully recieved.
> 
> Greg Cope
> 
> 
> ### log entries ###
> 
> 
> Jun 27 08:24:04 mailgate identd[10709]:
> request_thread: read(11, ...,
> 1023) failed: Connection reset by peer
> Jun 27 08:24:10 mailgate identd[10719]:
> request_thread: read(11, ...,
> 1023) failed: Connection reset by peer
> Jun 27 08:24:32 mailgate inetd[325]: fork: Cannot
> allocate memory
> Jun 27 08:25:18 mailgate last message repeated 6
> times
> Jun 27 08:26:40 mailgate last message repeated 9
> times
> Jun 27 08:27:25 mailgate last message repeated 9
> times
> Jun 27 08:27:27 mailgate inetd[325]: accept (for
> telnet): No buffer
> space available
> Jun 27 08:27:27 mailgate last message repeated 559
> times
> Jun 27 08:27:27 mailgate inetd[325]: fork: Cannot
> allocate memory
> Jun 27 08:28:01 mailgate last message repeated 4
> times
> Jun 27 08:29:26 mailgate last message repeated 6
> times
> Jun 27 08:30:47 mailgate last message repeated 5
> times
> Jun 27 08:31:55 mailgate last message repeated 4
> times
> 
> Jun 27 08:33:57 mailgate syslogd 1.3-3: restart.
> <--- machine
> unresponsive so "bounced"


=
---Someone told me that if you play a windoze NT CD backwards, it will play satanic 
messages.
---That's NOTHING!! If you play it forwards, it will install windoze NT!

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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[off-topic] Announcement: minit mailing list created

[Felix von Leitner]

I created a mailing list for discussions about my planned init system,
minit (the name is not final yet.  Maybe someone comes up with a better
one?).

So, if you were waiting for a place to voice your wishes for a small yet
feature-complete init system, please send an empty email to

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

(yes, it's managed by ezmlm).

I will create a web page about the project at http://www.fefe.de/minit/
soon.

Please don't follow-up to this email.  Thanks.

Felix

Re: off-topic, MUA to mail system files

[Russell Nelson]

Eric Dahnke writes:
 > How do you folks mail system files (say logs for example)?
 >  mail user -s Subject 
 >  ~r/tmp/filename

/var/qmail/bin/mailsubj "Subject" user   http://crynwr.com/~nelson
Crynwr supports Open Source(tm) Software| PGPok |   There is good evidence
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice |   that freedom is the
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   |   cause of world peace.

Re: off-topic, MUA to mail system files

[Mate Wierdl]

use mailsubj as

mailsubj foo bar < file.you.want.to.mail

See man page for mailsubj.

Mate

Re: off-topic, MUA to mail system files

[Scott Schwartz]

"Eric Dahnke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
| How do you folks mail system files (say logs for example)?

There's a book called "The Unix Programming Environment", by Kernighan
and Pike, which is an excellent introduction to the ideas behind Unix.
It's really good for answers to questions like that.

Re: off-topic, MUA to mail system files

[Russ Allbery]

Mate Wierdl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> use mailsubj as
> mailsubj foo bar < file.you.want.to.mail
> See man page for mailsubj.

I'd recommend also reading mailsubj, since it's just a shell script.  You
can then keep using it, knowing that you know what it's doing and you
could do it yourself if you want.

FWIW, the most portable solution across a variety of MTAs is probably to
open a pipe to "/usr/lib/sendmail -t -oi -oem" and feed it the entire mail
message including headers, putting the recipient addresses in the header.
There are more efficient ways using the native programs with most MTAs,
including qmail, but pretty much everyone has to be sendmail-compatible so
that works most everywhere.  (With the caveat that you may need to change
/usr/lib to /usr/sbin on some platforms.)

-- 
Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: off-topic, MUA to mail system files

[Russ Allbery]

Mate Wierdl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>FWIW, the most portable solution across a variety of MTAs is probably
>to open a pipe to "/usr/lib/sendmail -t -oi -oem" and feed it the
>entire mail message including headers, putting the recipient
>addresses in the header.

> Now of course, all these sendmail options are clearly documented in
> the qmail man pages

My understanding is that except for -t they don't do anything with qmail's
emulation (although I may be wrong on -oi, which says don't terminate the
mail message when one sees a single period).  They're documented in a
sendmail man page, though.

-- 
Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>