Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
yeah Andre... Your are right and clearly explain us how you make QtCreator best every day... First let's me say that QtCreator make me fall in love developing Qt Apps ! So you have done a very good job for Qt and your users. Thank you. On the other side, in fact, everyone is looking for his own perfect IDE but which was out-of-the-box made by someone else than himself if possible... We are som many user that you have to do choices and you made the good ones for me even if I have some dreams about features in QtCreator. I do not complain about them. I am waiting that they come in a future release.. to be able to say : Wooh, they did it ! We could understand that for some features we have to be patient. If we could not wait, we have to choose a better IDE (is it existing one ? :)) or make the modifications we want to this one. The sources are provided (it seem to me that MSVC doesn't, isn't it ?)... Keep on going. We are behind you ! Thank's for all you do. Best regards Stéphane Ps : sorry if there are some mistakes in my English. Hope you could understand what I mean. ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
Danny Price, Friday 20 November 2009:
I would consider the abilty to rename a file more fundamental to an IDE
than supporting every major source control solution under the sun.
Source-control support in IDEs is generally mediocre, if it exists at
all, and most developers use dedicated source control clients or the
command line. And dedicated solutions will always beat a one-size-fits
all IDE.
Please take into consideration, that you might not stand for the majority
of users. I for example consider the source-control integration mandatory
and working fine, 90% of my (SVN) operations I can do directly from
Creator.
I don't stand for the majority of Creator users either, since I don't even
code Qt programs with {q|c}make and git, but normal C++ programs with
autotools and SVN. But the few things that I missed, I have been able to
add easily myself and some even got merged into mainline Creator.
You seem to be spending a _lot_ of time posting to the Creator mailing
list about features you are missing. Of course it's useful for developers
to hear suggestions from their users, but also as you said:
But we're all developers on this list [...]
That is completely right, and that's why I think there should be a bit of
a balance on how much time one spends talking about Creator and coding on
it.
Please don't get me wrong... it's fine if a feature request is made (maybe
the new bug tracker is also better for that than the mailing list?). But
then don't write again and again how important this or that feature is and
how Creator is completely useless without it. That's simply a PITA for all
readers of the list (or at least me and a few more as that discussion has
shown).
Thanks,
Frank
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Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
Well said. Personally I can live without file system integration as anything complicated SVN-wise I can do with the awesome TortoiseSVN plugin. Alt-Tabing to an Explroer window when I need to rename files is not the end of the world. Qt Creator is a superb product and I am forever evangelising about it to co-workers and fellow programmers. My only gripe is with the 'session' system which is well documented here. :) I think the Trolls have done an amazing job with this product, and considering it's only a 1.x release, the features are impressive - I much prefer editing C++ code using this IDE than I do MSVC (even with the Visual Assist plugin.) So, well done to all involved and long may the good work continue. 2009/11/19 Andre Poenitz andre.poen...@mathematik.tu-chemnitz.de: On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 03:34:25PM +, Danny Price wrote: I'm fairly certain both VisualStudio 1.0 and Eclipse 1.0 had the ability to rename source files. Danny, if the developers of VS and Eclipse had enough resources to spent to integrate cross-platform, cross-VCS file manager capabilities, so, well, I admit it, I envy them. I don't have these resources, and the ones I have I rather spent not on duplicating functionality that is already available in abundance on everybody's desktop - at least not as long as there is a long wish list of more important things. Everybody who wants to have a file manager can have that rather easily, VCS integration inclusive. Switching applications every now and then might be inconvenient and cumbersome, but it's a process that can be handled resonably well by most programmers. On the other hand, not all of them can read the contents of a QHash by looking at the d pointer in gdb, so at least for me it's pretty clear what's going to the top and what to the bottom of the todo list... Andre' ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
Fairly often as I'm working on prototype interface classes and data frameworks. Lots of refactoring. On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Oswald Buddenhagen oswald.buddenha...@nokia.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:45:00AM +0100, ext Danny Price wrote: Five laborious steps! and how often do you have to execute those steps (several files at a time don't count)? ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
It may be 5 laborious steps, but how often do you actually need to do that? I find that on average I have to rename a .h/.cpp file once in its lifetime. Usually it is when I was just whipping up a class, so I gave it a quick name, but then after a few days of working on it and realizing that it was actually going to work, I'll rename it to something more accurate. So for me, adding this feature would be way low on the list. Sean From: qt-creator-boun...@trolltech.com [mailto:qt-creator-boun...@trolltech.com] On Behalf Of Danny Price Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:45 AM To: qt-creator@trolltech.com Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Robert Caldecott robert.caldec...@gmail.com wrote: Well said. Personally I can live without file system integration as anything complicated SVN-wise I can do with the awesome TortoiseSVN plugin. Alt-Tabing to an Explroer window when I need to rename files is not the end of the world. It's not just 'alt-tabbing to an explorer window', it's: 1) Removing the file from project (either manually from the .pro file or via the menu which requires dismissing the SVN prompt). 2) Closing any open documents for that file as Creator will not do with for you (and this is an easy way to get into a mess). 3) Renaming the file in explorer / your SVN client. 4) Re-importing the file (as above). 5) Re-running qmake. Five laborious steps! But I'll take a hint and drop the subject! Qt Creator is a superb product and I am forever evangelising about it to co-workers and fellow programmers. My only gripe is with the 'session' system which is well documented here. :) Agreed. I think the Trolls have done an amazing job with this product, and considering it's only a 1.x release, the features are impressive - I much prefer editing C++ code using this IDE than I do MSVC (even with the Visual Assist plugin.) So, well done to all involved and long may the good work continue. 2009/11/19 Andre Poenitz andre.poen...@mathematik.tu-chemnitz.de: On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 03:34:25PM +, Danny Price wrote: I'm fairly certain both VisualStudio 1.0 and Eclipse 1.0 had the ability to rename source files. Danny, if the developers of VS and Eclipse had enough resources to spent to integrate cross-platform, cross-VCS file manager capabilities, so, well, I admit it, I envy them. I don't have these resources, and the ones I have I rather spent not on duplicating functionality that is already available in abundance on everybody's desktop - at least not as long as there is a long wish list of more important things. Everybody who wants to have a file manager can have that rather easily, VCS integration inclusive. Switching applications every now and then might be inconvenient and cumbersome, but it's a process that can be handled resonably well by most programmers. On the other hand, not all of them can read the contents of a QHash by looking at the d pointer in gdb, so at least for me it's pretty clear what's going to the top and what to the bottom of the todo list... Andre' ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
Whoops, ignore this one Danny, I didn't see that Oswald asked you pretty much the exact same question between your post and my response! I don't want to make it sound like I'm piling on! Sean From: qt-creator-boun...@trolltech.com [mailto:qt-creator-boun...@trolltech.com] On Behalf Of Murphy, Sean M. Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:44 AM To: qt-creator@trolltech.com Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question It may be 5 laborious steps, but how often do you actually need to do that? I find that on average I have to rename a .h/.cpp file once in its lifetime. Usually it is when I was just whipping up a class, so I gave it a quick name, but then after a few days of working on it and realizing that it was actually going to work, I'll rename it to something more accurate. So for me, adding this feature would be way low on the list. Sean From: qt-creator-boun...@trolltech.com [mailto:qt-creator-boun...@trolltech.com] On Behalf Of Danny Price Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:45 AM To: qt-creator@trolltech.com Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Robert Caldecott robert.caldec...@gmail.com wrote: Well said. Personally I can live without file system integration as anything complicated SVN-wise I can do with the awesome TortoiseSVN plugin. Alt-Tabing to an Explroer window when I need to rename files is not the end of the world. It's not just 'alt-tabbing to an explorer window', it's: 1) Removing the file from project (either manually from the .pro file or via the menu which requires dismissing the SVN prompt). 2) Closing any open documents for that file as Creator will not do with for you (and this is an easy way to get into a mess). 3) Renaming the file in explorer / your SVN client. 4) Re-importing the file (as above). 5) Re-running qmake. Five laborious steps! But I'll take a hint and drop the subject! Qt Creator is a superb product and I am forever evangelising about it to co-workers and fellow programmers. My only gripe is with the 'session' system which is well documented here. :) Agreed. I think the Trolls have done an amazing job with this product, and considering it's only a 1.x release, the features are impressive - I much prefer editing C++ code using this IDE than I do MSVC (even with the Visual Assist plugin.) So, well done to all involved and long may the good work continue. 2009/11/19 Andre Poenitz andre.poen...@mathematik.tu-chemnitz.de: On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 03:34:25PM +, Danny Price wrote: I'm fairly certain both VisualStudio 1.0 and Eclipse 1.0 had the ability to rename source files. Danny, if the developers of VS and Eclipse had enough resources to spent to integrate cross-platform, cross-VCS file manager capabilities, so, well, I admit it, I envy them. I don't have these resources, and the ones I have I rather spent not on duplicating functionality that is already available in abundance on everybody's desktop - at least not as long as there is a long wish list of more important things. Everybody who wants to have a file manager can have that rather easily, VCS integration inclusive. Switching applications every now and then might be inconvenient and cumbersome, but it's a process that can be handled resonably well by most programmers. On the other hand, not all of them can read the contents of a QHash by looking at the d pointer in gdb, so at least for me it's pretty clear what's going to the top and what to the bottom of the todo list... Andre' ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
It's not just 'alt-tabbing to an explorer window', it's: 1) Removing the file from project (either manually from the .pro file or via the menu which requires dismissing the SVN prompt). 2) Closing any open documents for that file as Creator will not do with for you (and this is an easy way to get into a mess). 3) Renaming the file in explorer / your SVN client. 4) Re-importing the file (as above). 5) Re-running qmake. You can save yourself a step by renaming the file in the .pro file instead of removing it and re-adding it, and unless I'm mistaken (and it's possible I am) the .pro file is listed as a dependency for the Makefile so trying to build after modifying the .pro file SHOULD (in theory) automatically re-run qmake for you. This brings it down to three steps. /s/ Adam ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Sean Hignett s...@intelligent-design.cawrote: Hello all, I just recently discovered Qt, and Qt Creator. Was always aware of it, but never paid it the attention it clearly deserves. Working through the C++ GUI book to get up to speed. Qt Creator has some really impressive features... but... it also has some strange omissions compared to all the IDEs I have used in the past (VS, Eclipse, etc). Yep. And this has been the subject of some debate here (although no nearly enough IMHO). I'll avoid the apparently standard noob whining about no file rename, no folder creation, etc... Smart guys these Qt developers, so I assume there must be some thinking behind this... it is so bizarre it must be intended :) Please vote on the rename issue here: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTCREATORBUG-26 And the folder issue here: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTCREATORBUG-128 (Although there are several related tickets, none of them particularly clear on what should be done. Don't get me started on the 'sessions/pro.user file' thing...) Can anyone offer an example of how they use the IDE such that basic integrated file management is not a requirement? I assume it is just a case of using the OS file management tools (eg. terminal) and manually updating the .pro files... but am I missing something? It would seem refactoring would be somewhat cumbersome without the ability to re-organize files in concert. I could get used to using terminal/finder/etc, but I can't imagine ever not wanting the ability to do it directly in the IDE... is this crazy? Yes it is. I think Creator was developed by emacs users who wanted a fantastic editor above all else. Everything else was secondary and boy does it show! I'm hoping that Nokia will come to these senses but I wouldn't hold my breath. I use Creator because the editor, autocomplete and Qt-integrtion blows everything else away (including MSVC) so I put with the other strangeness. Has anyone written a better FileSystem view as a plugin? (i.e. one that isn't just read-only) That would be fantastic. The existing File System view is utterly usless. Tips or advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sean ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
Thanks Danny and Adam (Coda)! I couldn't have imagined two better, or more varied responses. It's good to know I wasn't missing something obvious. Perhaps the plugin model will allow me to write my own writable FileSystem view... if so, that might be the ticket for now. Would be a good way to ramp up, if I can carve out the free time to do it :) Cheers, Sean ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
I just recently discovered Qt, and Qt Creator. Was always aware of it, but never paid it the attention it clearly deserves. Working through the C++ GUI book to get up to speed. Qt Creator has some really impressive features... but... it also has some strange omissions compared to all the IDEs I have used in the past (VS, Eclipse, etc). I'll avoid the apparently standard noob whining about no file rename, no folder creation, etc... Smart guys these Qt developers, so I assume there must be some thinking behind this... it is so bizarre it must be intended :) Can anyone offer an example of how they use the IDE such that basic integrated file management is not a requirement? I assume it is just a case of using the OS file management tools (eg. terminal) and manually updating the .pro files... but am I missing something? It would seem refactoring would be somewhat cumbersome without the ability to re- organize files in concert. I could get used to using terminal/finder/etc, but I can't imagine ever not wanting the ability to do it directly in the IDE... is this crazy? Just keep in mind that Creator has only been in existence for a little over a year, so most of those features you're looking for just aren't in there YET, but that doesn't mean they aren't coming! The other applications you compared it to have much longer histories, Visual Studio started in 1997, and Eclipse started in 2004. The biggest thing I'm loving about Creator these days is that it has the same idiosyncrasies/flaws/omissions across all platforms I use it on. Previously, I'd be using a different IDE on each platform, with each IDE having its own set of weird quirks. For me it's easier to deal with quirks like you point out above, knowing that it's the same problem (and same fix) no matter which OS I'm working on. So for now, I'll forgive Nokia for not having every feature under the sun because they are giving me something that works the same way no matter where I run it... Sean ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Murphy, Sean M. sean.mur...@gd-ais.comwrote: Just keep in mind that Creator has only been in existence for a little over a year, so most of those features you're looking for just aren't in there YET, but that doesn't mean they aren't coming! The other applications you compared it to have much longer histories, Visual Studio started in 1997, and Eclipse started in 2004. Sean I'm fairly certain both VisualStudio 1.0 and Eclipse 1.0 had the ability to rename source files. ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
I couldn't agree more. A truly cross platform IDE and toolkit that runs at native speed is my holy grail. I am in awe of how Qt has matured so gradually and steadily over the years... Great(?) Seans think alike :) Cheers, Sean On 2009-11-19, at 8:28 AM, Murphy, Sean M. wrote: I just recently discovered Qt, and Qt Creator. Was always aware of it, but never paid it the attention it clearly deserves. Working through the C++ GUI book to get up to speed. Qt Creator has some really impressive features... but... it also has some strange omissions compared to all the IDEs I have used in the past (VS, Eclipse, etc). I'll avoid the apparently standard noob whining about no file rename, no folder creation, etc... Smart guys these Qt developers, so I assume there must be some thinking behind this... it is so bizarre it must be intended :) Can anyone offer an example of how they use the IDE such that basic integrated file management is not a requirement? I assume it is just a case of using the OS file management tools (eg. terminal) and manually updating the .pro files... but am I missing something? It would seem refactoring would be somewhat cumbersome without the ability to re- organize files in concert. I could get used to using terminal/finder/etc, but I can't imagine ever not wanting the ability to do it directly in the IDE... is this crazy? Just keep in mind that Creator has only been in existence for a little over a year, so most of those features you're looking for just aren't in there YET, but that doesn't mean they aren't coming! The other applications you compared it to have much longer histories, Visual Studio started in 1997, and Eclipse started in 2004. The biggest thing I'm loving about Creator these days is that it has the same idiosyncrasies/flaws/omissions across all platforms I use it on. Previously, I'd be using a different IDE on each platform, with each IDE having its own set of weird quirks. For me it's easier to deal with quirks like you point out above, knowing that it's the same problem (and same fix) no matter which OS I'm working on. So for now, I'll forgive Nokia for not having every feature under the sun because they are giving me something that works the same way no matter where I run it... Sean ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
And I'm fairly certain that Visual Studio still isn't cross platform... We can sit and argue which features each IDE had at the start all day long if we want. It's pretty clear that the first things on the Trolls' list was that they wanted to get a code editor with built-in debugger working cross-platform as their first goal, and that's what they shipped as the first version of Creator. Now they are working on adding more features that we all want. Sean From: qt-creator-boun...@trolltech.com [mailto:qt-creator-boun...@trolltech.com] On Behalf Of Danny Price Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:34 AM To: qt-creator@trolltech.com Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Murphy, Sean M. sean.mur...@gd-ais.com wrote: Just keep in mind that Creator has only been in existence for a little over a year, so most of those features you're looking for just aren't in there YET, but that doesn't mean they aren't coming! The other applications you compared it to have much longer histories, Visual Studio started in 1997, and Eclipse started in 2004. Sean I'm fairly certain both VisualStudio 1.0 and Eclipse 1.0 had the ability to rename source files. ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] General Usage Question
Qt Creator is a great code editor first, a good debugger second, and its role as an actual IDE comes after that. You're not missing anything. It just hasn't been done yet. qmake's file format is easy to do this kind of thing by hand in, so I would imagine that such a feature simply hasn't been a great priority. Think of it this way: how often do you actually go and do mass reorganization of your project? If the answer to this is anything more than not very often something's wrong with your workflow. ;) On the other hand, how often do you edit a source file? How often do you check out or check in code with your source code management tools? How often do you compile, test, and debug your application? There's plenty of other stuff that needs to work before renaming files is really a concern. /s/ Adam On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Sean Hignett s...@intelligent-design.ca wrote: Hello all, I just recently discovered Qt, and Qt Creator. Was always aware of it, but never paid it the attention it clearly deserves. Working through the C++ GUI book to get up to speed. Qt Creator has some really impressive features... but... it also has some strange omissions compared to all the IDEs I have used in the past (VS, Eclipse, etc). I'll avoid the apparently standard noob whining about no file rename, no folder creation, etc... Smart guys these Qt developers, so I assume there must be some thinking behind this... it is so bizarre it must be intended :) Can anyone offer an example of how they use the IDE such that basic integrated file management is not a requirement? I assume it is just a case of using the OS file management tools (eg. terminal) and manually updating the .pro files... but am I missing something? It would seem refactoring would be somewhat cumbersome without the ability to re-organize files in concert. I could get used to using terminal/finder/etc, but I can't imagine ever not wanting the ability to do it directly in the IDE... is this crazy? Has anyone written a better FileSystem view as a plugin? (i.e. one that isn't just read-only) Tips or advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks, Sean ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
