Re: 840av and daystar 601?

[the pickle]

At 20:42 -0400 on 18/02/03, Jason White wrote:

>>>The various ppc upgrades for Quadra do not list 840av.  Does it NOT work
>>>in that model?  Any way to use it even if not intended for that machine?-
>Dick
>
>Doesn't this model use an 8100 motherboard to get it up to PPC status?

Yep.  The 840 has no PDS slot, so there's no way to upgrade it without
replacing the mobo.
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Re: 840av and daystar 601?

[Jason White]

>>The various ppc upgrades for Quadra do not list 840av.  Does it NOT work
>>in that model?  Any way to use it even if not intended for that machine?- 
Dick

Doesn't this model use an 8100 motherboard to get it up to PPC status? 
Kinda new to Quadras, don't bank on this.


J White

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S.O.S. Save Our Steel


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Re: 840av and daystar 601?

[the pickle]

At 18:52 -0500 on 18/02/03, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>The various ppc upgrades for Quadra do not list 840av.  Does it NOT work
>in that model?  Any way to use it even if not intended for that machine?- Dick

Respectively, no, and no.  There's nothing to plug it into.
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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

Yes, they do, but I don't think it hurts anyone.  Maybe you need an eye 
exam.   Paul, don't be such a baby soldier.  Bye y'all, its been fun and I 
did find what I needed for my Q950.  Thanks.

Original Message Follows
From: the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:42:00 -0500

At 12:31 -0600 on 19/01/03, zhmmy harper wrote:

 >Because people here sell and swap all kinds of stuff, not just quad.

No.

They don't.

If you think they do after all the discussion in the last 24 hours about HOW
THIS IS NOT REMOTELY RELEVANT, then you - and I mean this in the most polite
way possible - need to have your head examined.

At the very least you need to go re-read the list FAQ at

http://lowendmac.com/lists/quadlist.shtml

and don't post anything else until you've fully read and understood it.

Paul, didn't you say this guy had his warning already?
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Re: 840av

[E McCann]

At 11:35 AM 1/19/2003, victoria Duggan typed thusly:
> >
>Hi NO I DID NOT! mention anything about any other Mac I asked if there was
>any better app than apple video player to render video.

Um...
"For doing videos and sending them to a burner via ethernet I am using apple
video player for the video's at the moment but it is slow."

(From the second post, not the original.) Nothing *wrong* with it, just 
pointing out where I saw the info that generated a suggestion.

>As it happens I do transfer the files via ethernet to my Ibook then burn
>them to cd but this is a Quad list and the ibook part is not the part I
>wanted to know about,
>
>It was the 840 AV involvement to capture the raw video from camcorder.

... which is partly why the stuff about other machines that got Pickle's 
undies in a twist came up - mentioning that (a) the 840's CPU is what's 
slowing you down, not software, with a suggestion that you might want to 
try encoding on the other machine, and (b) that someone else (*gasp*) used 
a much newer machine (oh, the horror) and had similar "can't use the 
machine for anything else" results with a suggested bit of software.

Didn't do anything wrong. *shrug* And despite Pickle's reaction, it didn't 
turn into a Flat-Panel-Imac, G4, Non-Quadra Lovefest. Chance to? Sure. Did 
it? No.

Now, pulling this further into 840AV-land... well, we'll save that for the 
next post. 


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Re: 840av

[Paul Stamsen]

At 12:31 -0600, 1/19/03,   (zhmmy harper)  observed:



 Because people here sell and swap all kinds of stuff, not just quad.


If you can't stick with the list rules you will get banned. Now take 
it to the right list, last warning!
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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 13:47 -0600 on 19/01/03, Jack Gallemore wrote:

>Additionally, she was using a piece of equipment that I have used on a
>newer machine with the same results that she was experiencing.  I
>didn't realize this list was limited to only experiences on Quadras,
>but rather to help people who are having problems with Quadras.  I've

Because some people apparently have trouble understanding simple instructions
that they read when they sign up for lists, I'm reproducing the relevant text
from the list FAQ here:

Quadlist is a forum for users of [or those wishing to discuss - p] 68040-based
Macintosh computers. This includes the Centris and Quadra series, plus some
PowerBooks, LCs, and Performas.

Following our "once removed" rule, discussion of 68020- and 68030- Macs, as
well as early Power Macs [i.e., the x100s and PPC-based 630-series machines -
p], is **acceptable** but **discouraged** [emphasis added - p]. Owners of [or
those wishing to discuss - p] other Macs are encouraged to join the appropriate
list from those listed on the right.

The above comes from:


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Re: 840av

[Jack Gallemore]

Additionally, she was using a piece of equipment that I have used on a 
newer machine with the same results that she was experiencing.  I 
didn't realize this list was limited to only experiences on Quadras, 
but rather to help people who are having problems with Quadras.  I've 
been in the computing industry since the early '80s and have racked up 
a lot of time with personal computing.  I've found that in 
troubleshooting a problem, I ask myself "Have I dealt with this 
before?".  In eliminating possible suspects, I usually like to see if a 
similar problem has occurred regardless of platform or OS.

Now that I know that this list is only limited to a discussion of only 
"experiences with Quadras need apply", I'll happily go into lurk mode.

Jack

On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 01:19 PM, E McCann wrote:

>
> I think part of the reason this came up was that in her initial post, 
> she
> mentioned the files going "over ethernet" to another machine with a 
> CD(or
> was it DVD, don't recall at the moment) burner which means she 
> either
> has an upgraded mac, a newer mac, or a PC, all of which are probably 
> going
> to encode the file faster just through brute force.


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Re: 840av

[victoria Duggan]

> I think part of the reason this came up was that in her initial post, she
> mentioned the files going "over ethernet" to another machine with a CD(or
> was it DVD, don't recall at the moment) burner which means she either
> has an upgraded mac, a newer mac, or a PC, all of which are probably going
> to encode the file faster just through brute force.
> 
Hi NO I DID NOT! mention anything about any other Mac I asked if there was
any better app than apple video player to render video.

As it happens I do transfer the files via ethernet to my Ibook then burn
them to cd but this is a Quad list and the ibook part is not the part I
wanted to know about,

It was the 840 AV involvement to capture the raw video from camcorder.


Anyway to put this thread to bed now I have received a lot of advice off
list about things to do so Thanks to all that sent me the bits .


Victoria.


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Re: 840av

[E McCann]

At 09:46 AM 1/19/2003, the pickle typed thusly:

>At 09:41 -0800 on 19/01/03, James S Jones wrote:
>
> >Quadra, Quadra, Quadra! This is the Quadlist, not the G-List, X4U, or
> >the Eagle Scout attorney-badge list.
>
>It's about damn time someone else realised this.  Thanks, James.


I think part of the reason this came up was that in her initial post, she 
mentioned the files going "over ethernet" to another machine with a CD(or 
was it DVD, don't recall at the moment) burner which means she either 
has an upgraded mac, a newer mac, or a PC, all of which are probably going 
to encode the file faster just through brute force.


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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 12:31 -0600 on 19/01/03, zhmmy harper wrote:

>Because people here sell and swap all kinds of stuff, not just quad.

No.

They don't.

If you think they do after all the discussion in the last 24 hours about HOW
THIS IS NOT REMOTELY RELEVANT, then you - and I mean this in the most polite
way possible - need to have your head examined.

At the very least you need to go re-read the list FAQ at

http://lowendmac.com/lists/quadlist.shtml

and don't post anything else until you've fully read and understood it.

Paul, didn't you say this guy had his warning already?
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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

Because people here sell and swap all kinds of stuff, not just quad.

Original Message Follows
From: the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:15:53 -0500

At 12:12 -0600 on 19/01/03, zhmmy harper wrote:

 >No, but it will on my G4.

THEN WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT HERE?

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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 12:12 -0600 on 19/01/03, zhmmy harper wrote:

>No, but it will on my G4.

THEN WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT HERE?

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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

No, but it will on my G4.  I'm not using my Q950 for A/V--too slow.

Original Message Follows
From: the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 13:01:16 -0500

At 11:55 -0600 on 19/01/03, zhmmy harper wrote:

 >Oh, ok, you bought a Divideon?  I'm glad you pointed me there because they
 >really sound great and I'll probably get one.  Thanks.

Do those work on Quads?
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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 11:55 -0600 on 19/01/03, zhmmy harper wrote:

>Oh, ok, you bought a Divideon?  I'm glad you pointed me there because they
>really sound great and I'll probably get one.  Thanks.

Do those work on Quads?
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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

Oh, ok, you bought a Divideon?  I'm glad you pointed me there because they 
really sound great and I'll probably get one.  Thanks.






Original Message Follows
From: Jack Gallemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 08:31:09 -0600

On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 09:09 PM, zhmmy harper wrote:

 > I got out of the loop.  You had one what for your Flat Panel Mac?
 > What did
 > you ship back?  What is a Formac Studio?  Thanks.
 >
 > I had one for my Flat Panel Mac.Never got the video and audio to
 > sync.  Froze my 9.2.2 and OSX.  Just all around unhappy with it.
 > Shipped it back and bought a Formac Studio using firewire.  Much, much
 > happier and my hair is growing back.  USB for video/audio=bad...IMHO.
 >
 > Jack
 >

I had a Belkin USB VideoBusII as referenced in the original message.
Formac Studio is located at http://www.formac.com

Jack


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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 09:41 -0800 on 19/01/03, James S Jones wrote:

>Quadra, Quadra, Quadra! This is the Quadlist, not the G-List, X4U, or
>the Eagle Scout attorney-badge list.

It's about damn time someone else realised this.  Thanks, James.
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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 16:07 -0600 on 18/01/03, zhmmy harper wrote:

>Software companies don't want either of those things to happen, as it means
>the recipient of the second-hand software is not going to bother buying new
>software from the software companies.  I'm not going to be a hypocrit and

Which is a load of horsepucky, because most of the time that people around
*HERE* are looking for used software, they're only doing so because the company
REFUSES TO SELL A VERSION THAT WILL WORK ON MACHINES RELEVANT TO THIS LIST.

Note the last five words of the above sentence.

If I see one more post about why thus-and-so won't work on an iMac running
9.2.2 I'm gonna break some heads.

If you don't have morals, that's your own damn fault, but don't tell the rest
of us about it.  We don't care.
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Re: 840av

[James S Jones]

Quadra, Quadra, Quadra! This is the Quadlist, not the G-List, X4U, or 
the Eagle Scout attorney-badge list.

USB devices, OS versions after 8.1, FireWire and iMovie are N O T among 
the options available to Victoria. Victoria's options are limited to 
those that will run on a 68040 AV Mac*.

Victoria:

Everything to do with video on your AV Mac is based on QuickTime. You 
haven't said what version you have installed. Compression speed might 
be helped by using a different version of QuickTime or installing one 
of several hardware accelerators that plug into the AV slot, such as 
the various Spigot cards.

Other (QT based) software that can be used to capture and/or compress 
video include such things as Avid VideoShop 3, Adobe Premiere 4.2, 
Fusion Recorder, etc. The best thing to do is learn about the Q840AV, 
what it can and can't do and what resources are available to you.

There are several good articles on the 840AV and its capabilities on 
. Search for 840AV. There is also a web site devoted 
to the AV Macs at UC Berkeley: 
. And, there is a mail 
list devoted exclusively to AV Mac issues, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
You may be able to subscribe to that list by sending it a message with 
just "subscribe" (without the quote marks) in the subject and body. If 
that doesn't work, instructions are found in the AV Mac FAQ and/or one 
or more of the Low End Mac 840AV articles and links.
___
*Not literally true, as she has at least one or more PCI PowerMacs, 
based on her postings to other lists, but that's not out concern, here.

On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 06:35  AM, Jack Gallemore wrote:

> As I stated earlier, I never had any luck with the VBII.  I'm using a
> Flat Panel Mac with 768MB of RAM and it, too rendered my Mac useless
> and at times completely froze up while trying both 9.2.2 and 10.1.  I
> recommend saving up for a firewire solution, but as far as software is
> concerned, I can't help there.  I use iMovie which works fine for me.


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Re: 840av

[Mark Benson]

On Sunday, Jan 19, 2003, at 10:17 Europe/London, victoria.duggan wrote:

> Hi All I did was plug in the video lead from the camcorder and start 
> apple
> video player and the mac does the rest.
>  It gives me two control panels, video and video selection with s-video
> /stero/ video.
>
> I just choose the one I have my device plugged into. My only question 
> was is
> there a faster one because my 840AV is rendered useless whilst doing 
> video.

I'm afraid that fact it is only a 68040/40MHz means, despite the AT&T 
66.7MHz DSP chip, that it needs all it's power to digitize video. The 
vast majority of the CPU time consumed is actually I/O from the RAM to 
the disk that it is recording to. Either way you will still not be able 
to use it if you use Adobe Premiere 2, 3, or 4, Avid Videoshop or 
anything else. It's the actual process of digitizing and saving to disk 
that is taking up all the CPU cycles, not Apple's software, which use 
very few CPU cycles on an 840av when it is just displaying video from 
one of the ports.

-- 
Mark Benson

AIM - SilValleyPirate
Visit FlatPackMacs online: 
Visit my Homepage: 
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Re: 840av

[Mark Benson]

My advice is that if you have an iMac or something for burning or even 
a 604e PowerMac that you capture raw files on the 840av and then copy 
them over ethernet to the better machine and compress them on there. 
The time is probably comparable to what it takes to compress MPEG on an 
840av, and you can watch the video for proofing straight after you have 
compressed it. It is also easier to find the speed and disk space 
required on newer machines for multiple, copies of one file.

-- 
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-The Matrix


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Re: 840av

[Jack Gallemore]

Victoria,

As I stated earlier, I never had any luck with the VBII.  I'm using a 
Flat Panel Mac with 768MB of RAM and it, too rendered my Mac useless 
and at times completely froze up while trying both 9.2.2 and 10.1.  I 
recommend saving up for a firewire solution, but as far as software is 
concerned, I can't help there.  I use iMovie which works fine for me.

Jack

On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 04:17 AM, victoria.duggan wrote:

> Hi All I did was plug in the video lead from the camcorder and start 
> apple
> video player and the mac does the rest.
>  It gives me two control panels, video and video selection with s-video
> /stero/ video.
>
> I just choose the one I have my device plugged into. My only question 
> was is
> there a faster one because my 840AV is rendered useless whilst doing 
> video.
>
>
> -- 
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Re: 840av

[Jack Gallemore]

On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 09:09 PM, zhmmy harper wrote:

> I got out of the loop.  You had one what for your Flat Panel Mac?  
> What did
> you ship back?  What is a Formac Studio?  Thanks.
>
> I had one for my Flat Panel Mac.Never got the video and audio to
> sync.  Froze my 9.2.2 and OSX.  Just all around unhappy with it.
> Shipped it back and bought a Formac Studio using firewire.  Much, much
> happier and my hair is growing back.  USB for video/audio=bad...IMHO.
>
> Jack
>

I had a Belkin USB VideoBusII as referenced in the original message.  
Formac Studio is located at http://www.formac.com

Jack


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Re: 840av

[victoria.duggan]

Hi All I did was plug in the video lead from the camcorder and start apple
video player and the mac does the rest.
 It gives me two control panels, video and video selection with s-video
/stero/ video.

I just choose the one I have my device plugged into. My only question was is
there a faster one because my 840AV is rendered useless whilst doing video. 


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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

Amen.






Original Message Follows
From: E McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:51:59 -0800

At 02:07 PM 1/18/2003, zhmmy harper typed thusly:

 >off as something other than what it is.  Life is too short for that.  Just
 >do it and quit pretending you are sanctimonious.


As this conversation has lost any redeeming value, I offer you one last 
word.

*PLONK.*


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Re: Netiquette was Re: 840av

[Sque]

Randy Beaudreault wrote:

>P. S. Sorry for posting all of the irrelevant stuff but I want to 
>illustrate a point.
>

Whats your point, bottom posting sucks?
You do know that a warning to the poster should be sent offlist as a 
friendly reminder?
Hopefully you'll get one too. Meanwhile I dont get an answer to a simple 
on topic question, go figure.





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Netiquette was Re: 840av

[Randy Beaudreault]

>I got out of the loop.  You had one what for your Flat Panel Mac?  What did
>you ship back?  What is a Formac Studio?  Thanks.
>
>I had one for my Flat Panel Mac.Never got the video and audio to
>sync.  Froze my 9.2.2 and OSX.  Just all around unhappy with it.
>Shipped it back and bought a Formac Studio using firewire.  Much, much
>happier and my hair is growing back.  USB for video/audio=bad...IMHO.
>
>Jack
>
>On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 05:09 PM, zhmmy harper wrote:
>
>  > Victoria, I didn't scroll down far enough to see that you were asking
>  > about
>  > video software--thought your question was concerning OS.  I'm also at
>  > this
>  > time going through the same process as you concerning video.  Apple
>  > Video
>  > just freezes, so I suppose it is for OS7.
>  >
>  > Only, I'm stuck at the very FIRST.  I have the Belkin VideoBusII, which
>  > comes with a CD that has Strata VideoShop 4.5.1.  I am trying to use
>  > it on
>  > my G4 PCI/OS9.2.1 and so far I can't even get anything to come from
>  > either
>  > my cable decoder or vcr or surroundsound stereo.  I've been trying to
>  > hook
>  > it up for 3 days and feel very unintelligent by now.  If you have any
>  > suggestions that will help me hook it up correctly to get the software
>  > to
>  > work then I can report on it.
>  >
>  > Original Message Follows
>  > From: "victoria.duggan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
>  > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
>  > Subject: Re: 840av
>  > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:59:56 +
>  >
>  > First sorry for starting this topic but no-one has answered my question
>  > yet!!!
>  >
>  >
>  > Whats the best software (that will run on my 840AV)
>  >
>  > For doing videos and sending them to a burner via ethernet I am using
>  > apple
>  > video player for the video's at the moment but it is slow.
>  >
>  > Victoria.
>  >
>  >
>  > --
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>  > _
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>The FAQ: 

Re: 840av

[Robert Gray]

>  I'm no saint, I've [pirated] before but now I am a working man
>  I refuse to scab any longer. I had no option before, I do now.

Know what you mean.  I hate it when they put
that gun to my head and scream, "DO IT!"  ;-)

There's almost always an option.


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Re: 840av

[E McCann]

At 01:59 PM 1/18/2003, victoria.duggan typed thusly:

>First sorry for starting this topic but no-one has answered my question
>yet!!!
>
>
>Whats the best software (that will run on my 840AV)
>
>For doing videos and sending them to a burner via ethernet I am using apple
>video player for the video's at the moment but it is slow.

Thing is, I'm not sure that the "slow" portion of your original question is 
due to the software. It's running the file through compression and such, 
which might be helped more if you've got a faster processor and/or more 
RAM. You're already (if I understand this correctly) sending them to 
another machine with a burner - what's the other machine? The AV will 
capture fine, after all... 


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Re: 840av

[E McCann]

At 02:07 PM 1/18/2003, zhmmy harper typed thusly:

>off as something other than what it is.  Life is too short for that.  Just
>do it and quit pretending you are sanctimonious.


As this conversation has lost any redeeming value, I offer you one last word.

*PLONK.*


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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

I got out of the loop.  You had one what for your Flat Panel Mac?  What did 
you ship back?  What is a Formac Studio?  Thanks.

I had one for my Flat Panel Mac.Never got the video and audio to
sync.  Froze my 9.2.2 and OSX.  Just all around unhappy with it.
Shipped it back and bought a Formac Studio using firewire.  Much, much
happier and my hair is growing back.  USB for video/audio=bad...IMHO.

Jack

On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 05:09 PM, zhmmy harper wrote:

 > Victoria, I didn't scroll down far enough to see that you were asking
 > about
 > video software--thought your question was concerning OS.  I'm also at
 > this
 > time going through the same process as you concerning video.  Apple
 > Video
 > just freezes, so I suppose it is for OS7.
 >
 > Only, I'm stuck at the very FIRST.  I have the Belkin VideoBusII, which
 > comes with a CD that has Strata VideoShop 4.5.1.  I am trying to use
 > it on
 > my G4 PCI/OS9.2.1 and so far I can't even get anything to come from
 > either
 > my cable decoder or vcr or surroundsound stereo.  I've been trying to
 > hook
 > it up for 3 days and feel very unintelligent by now.  If you have any
 > suggestions that will help me hook it up correctly to get the software
 > to
 > work then I can report on it.
 >
 > Original Message Follows
 > From: "victoria.duggan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 > Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
 > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
 > Subject: Re: 840av
 > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:59:56 +
 >
 > First sorry for starting this topic but no-one has answered my question
 > yet!!!
 >
 >
 > Whats the best software (that will run on my 840AV)
 >
 > For doing videos and sending them to a burner via ethernet I am using
 > apple
 > video player for the video's at the moment but it is slow.
 >
 > Victoria.
 >
 >
 > --
 > Quadlist is sponsored by <http://lowendmac.com/> and...
 >
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Re: 840av

[J.M.P.Hissel]

On 19-01-2003 1:33, Robert Gray, [EMAIL PROTECTED], wrote:

>> You cannot copy hardware (cars, computers etc.)
>> like you can copy software.
> 
> Maybe you weren't around during the days of Mac and IBM clones.

59 yrs. old enough?? My experience with computers started in July 1963 (so
nearly 40 yrs. ago! How old are you?).


> Luxury vehicles might provide sufficient profit margin for cloning

OK. Your choise: Cars. Will tell you something:
1) I'm a highschool-graduated mechanical engineer, dir. carbuilding,
special. engine- and chassisconstruction.
2) So believe me, you are really comparing now, let's say icebears and
guppies. And please, believe me again, even copying a Trabant will cost more
then several originals together! Not to speak about a 507 f.e.

> were it not for copyright/patent laws.

Please re-read and try to understand I wrote under 2) in my last message!

 
>> Selling software is a different piece of cake. But selling
>> the original (no copies!) software, complete as you
>> purchased, without keeping/using a copy is quite legal.
> 
> So is selling your used Valient.  ;-)

Please explain. Cannot find it in my Oxford- and/or Webstersdict. Eng/Dutch.

And please: Further conversation concerning this OffList.
At all events, this is my last reaction concerning this OnList.

All the best and keep smiling,

Jo


 


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Re: 840av

[Jack Gallemore]

I had one for my Flat Panel Mac.Never got the video and audio to 
sync.  Froze my 9.2.2 and OSX.  Just all around unhappy with it.  
Shipped it back and bought a Formac Studio using firewire.  Much, much 
happier and my hair is growing back.  USB for video/audio=bad...IMHO.

Jack

On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 05:09 PM, zhmmy harper wrote:

> Victoria, I didn't scroll down far enough to see that you were asking 
> about
> video software--thought your question was concerning OS.  I'm also at 
> this
> time going through the same process as you concerning video.  Apple 
> Video
> just freezes, so I suppose it is for OS7.
>
> Only, I'm stuck at the very FIRST.  I have the Belkin VideoBusII, which
> comes with a CD that has Strata VideoShop 4.5.1.  I am trying to use 
> it on
> my G4 PCI/OS9.2.1 and so far I can't even get anything to come from 
> either
> my cable decoder or vcr or surroundsound stereo.  I've been trying to 
> hook
> it up for 3 days and feel very unintelligent by now.  If you have any
> suggestions that will help me hook it up correctly to get the software 
> to
> work then I can report on it.
>
> Original Message Follows
> From: "victoria.duggan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
> Subject: Re: 840av
> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:59:56 +
>
> First sorry for starting this topic but no-one has answered my question
> yet!!!
>
>
> Whats the best software (that will run on my 840AV)
>
> For doing videos and sending them to a burner via ethernet I am using 
> apple
> video player for the video's at the moment but it is slow.
>
> Victoria.
>
>
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Re: 840av

[Michael Emery]

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Whats the best software (that will run on my 840AV)...

I guess you're concerned with rendering speed.

Most all of the available titles work well enough. Some are easier to 
use, such as QuickTime Pro v4.03; I would not even know how you could get 
this legally anymore.

While most software works, none will work any faster than another. The 
Q840av is doomed to be only as fast as it is. If you want to use your 
network with some flavor of G3 or a 1st-generation PowerMac with a G3 
upgrade card, you will do more work in less time. You would also need to 
run that software on the G3.

So, find what software works for you -- I like Fusion Recorder and 
VideoShop -- then think about a hardware upgrade to run it on.
-
Michael Emery

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Re: 840av

[Robert Gray]

>  You cannot copy hardware (cars, computers etc.)
>  like you can copy software.

Maybe you weren't around during the days of Mac and IBM clones. 
Luxury vehicles might provide sufficient profit margin for cloning 
were it not for copyright/patent laws.

>  Selling software is a different piece of cake. But selling
>  the original (no copies!) software, complete as you
>  purchased, without keeping/using a copy is quite legal.

So is selling your used Valient.  ;-)


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Re: 840av

[Robert Gray]

At 15:37:57 -0600 on 01/18/03, "zhmmy harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>That isn't complicated at all is it?  What if you don't accept money
>for it or the software?  What if you lend it to a friend?  What are
>all the rights and wrongs of this social dillemma?

You're right it isn't that complicated.  Provided that the holder of 
the copyright doesn't prohibit transfer of the license, gift software 
can be freely given and accepted.  Remember, only the copyright 
holder can sell a license.  When you legally "sell" your software you 
aren't selling the license, you're transferring your license and 
selling the software physical media and printed manuals.

If the transfer is prohibited the situation is vastly different. 
Here a "veiled transaction" between friends would be pierced easily 
by the poorest prosecutor in the country.  It has to be presumed that 
currency, goods, or services are tendered for the license.

Some don't see any distinct difference between the two especially 
when the second-hand sale is a substantial portion of the price for 
the license.  That's why more companies are forbidding the transfer 
of license -- it appears that a cost of licensing is being collected 
de facto.

However, as the license allows for the use of the software on your 
machine, your friend could probably get away with using any software 
on your machine.

And don't try to arrange for "selling" the software back and forth 
between two machines as the demand occurs.  That also is too 
transparent in court.


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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

Victoria, I didn't scroll down far enough to see that you were asking about 
video software--thought your question was concerning OS.  I'm also at this 
time going through the same process as you concerning video.  Apple Video 
just freezes, so I suppose it is for OS7.

Only, I'm stuck at the very FIRST.  I have the Belkin VideoBusII, which 
comes with a CD that has Strata VideoShop 4.5.1.  I am trying to use it on 
my G4 PCI/OS9.2.1 and so far I can't even get anything to come from either 
my cable decoder or vcr or surroundsound stereo.  I've been trying to hook 
it up for 3 days and feel very unintelligent by now.  If you have any 
suggestions that will help me hook it up correctly to get the software to 
work then I can report on it.

Original Message Follows
From: "victoria.duggan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:59:56 +

First sorry for starting this topic but no-one has answered my question
yet!!!


Whats the best software (that will run on my 840AV)

For doing videos and sending them to a burner via ethernet I am using apple
video player for the video's at the moment but it is slow.

Victoria.


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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

And just as you admit doing while you were "poor" (before you had a job?), 
other poor people now and in the future will do the same.  I just hope they 
don't hide their heads in shame and guilt when the ones with jobs point 
fingers.

Anyway, your opinion and analysis is as good as the others in this weird 
flap.  I have enjoyed these 3 days of soul-searching, but I guess now we can 
all look for another dead horse to kill  :-)






Original Message Follows
From: Mark Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:10:16 +

On Saturday, Jan 18, 2003, at 03:59 Europe/London, zhmmy harper wrote:

 > Same all same, except people who sell their software are accepting
 > payment
 > for the license that rightfully belongs to the software producer.
 > Which is
 > more "honorable" or ethical?  Probably doesn't matter anyway, but I do
 > understand that it would be better to not mention Limewire.  Whoops,
 > did it
 > again.

No, the license belongs to the person who buys the software, and is
know as the End User License Agreement, or EULA. This, in most if not
all cases, can be legally transfered from one user to another fro a
monetary sum at least one. As an example is is legal for an end user to
transfer EULA license of Windows XP (just plucked that one out of the
blue because it is one of the few EULAs I've read - I'm not trolling)
to another user once.

Therefore it is not illegal or frowned upon to sell genuine licensed
copies of software to others for a fee equivalent to the software's
intrinsic value. Duplicating and selling, or giving away, by physical,
digital or paper means however violates the owners EULA, and is illegal.

Limewire is a pit of filth that does nothing but spread the evil taint
of piracy in music and software. It is the fault of networks like that
that has prompted the ridiculous means people go to to protect their
licenses. People make great news fodder of Microsoft's Product
Activation, or the new copy protected CDs that stop them being ripped
(as someone who has a massive library of completely legal MP3s from my
vast CD collection I personally find that particular one very hard to
swallow) but in reality it is the fault of the software pirate that
these have come about.

I'm no saint, I've done it before but now I am a working man I refuse
to scab any longer. I had no option before, I do now. I will pay my way.

--
Mark Benson

AIM - SilValleyPirate
Visit FlatPackMacs online: <http://fpm.gotdns.com>
Visit my Homepage: <http://homepage.mac.com/markbenson>
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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

I believe it is 8.1, same as the limit on my Q950.  To be sure go to 
apple.com/support and keyword 840av.
And please, nobody complain about going to apple.com support.  That's their 
job.






Original Message Follows
From: "victoria.duggan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:59:56 +

First sorry for starting this topic but no-one has answered my question
yet!!!


Whats the best software (that will run on my 840AV)

For doing videos and sending them to a burner via ethernet I am using apple
video player for the video's at the moment but it is slow.

Victoria.


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Re: 840av

[J.M.P.Hissel]

On 18-01-2003 10:02, E McCann, [EMAIL PROTECTED], wrote:

> You put time and money into creating *something.* Car, computer, program,
> whatever. Somebody buys it. Do you *care* if they sell it to someone else
> after they're done with it? No, you've been paid for it.

Sorry but I don't agree:
1) Your list of exemples looks like comparing cows and horses. You cannot
copy hardware (cars, computers etc.) like you can copy software. Therefore
you have nothing to pay to a manufacturer if you sell your used car/comp.
etc.
2) Selling software is a different piece of cake. But selling the original
(no copies!) software, complete as you purchased, without keeping/using a
copy is quite legal.

 
> You put time and money into creating something. Somebody breaks in and
> steals it, and possibly copies it and gives it to others. Do you care?

See above.

HTH,

Jo


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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

Software companies don't want either of those things to happen, as it means 
the recipient of the second-hand software is not going to bother buying new 
software from the software companies.  I'm not going to be a hypocrit and 
rationalize all this, simply because I'm poor and can't afford the high 
price of new software.  I'm also not going to go on a guilt trip or pass it 
off as something other than what it is.  Life is too short for that.  Just 
do it and quit pretending you are sanctimonious.






Original Message Follows
From: E McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 01:02:12 -0800

At 07:59 PM 1/17/2003, zhmmy harper typed thusly:

 >Same all same, except people who sell their software are accepting payment
 >for the license that rightfully belongs to the software producer.  Which 
is
 >more "honorable" or ethical?


OK, let's try explaining it this way...

You put time and money into creating *something.* Car, computer, program,
whatever. Somebody buys it. Do you *care* if they sell it to someone else
after they're done with it? No, you've been paid for it.

You put time and money into creating something. Somebody breaks in and
steals it, and possibly copies it and gives it to others. Do you care?

And that's as far as I'm going with it.


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Re: 840av

[victoria.duggan]

First sorry for starting this topic but no-one has answered my question
yet!!!


Whats the best software (that will run on my 840AV)

For doing videos and sending them to a burner via ethernet I am using apple
video player for the video's at the moment but it is slow.

Victoria.


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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

If you sell the original software you also are reselling the license and the 
SN and you don't have that right.  What's the deal that makes this so much 
more honest than taking the original over to someone and letting them 
install it using your SN?  This all sounds like excusing yourself for being 
a bad boy.  Just do it and forget the guilt pains.






Original Message Follows
From: Mark Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 11:56:58 +

On Saturday, Jan 18, 2003, at 00:28 Europe/London, zhmmy harper wrote:

 > Hmm, I didn't know I was sinning because I'm new to this
 > site...however,
 > I've seen a lot of used software for sale here so far.  Everyone seems
 > to do
 > it but I guess it's baad to talk about it.  But I won't suggest
 > Limewire
 > anymore.

We only sell genuine originals of software. We don't sell burned copies
or duplicate floppies of stuff.

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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

That isn't complicated at all is it?  What if you don't accept money for it 
or the software?  What if you lend it to a friend?  What are all the rights 
and wrongs of this social dillemma?






Original Message Follows
From: Robert Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:37:08 -0500

 >  Same all same, except people who sell their software are accepting
 >  payment for the license that rightfully belongs to the software
 >  producer.  Which is more "honorable" or ethical?

As I understand it, only the owner of the copywrite has the right to
sell a license; however, if it isn't forbidden in the license, the
holder of the license may transfer their right to a new holder (and
subsequently give up their right to future use of that software
license).

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Re: 840av

[Mark Benson]

On Saturday, Jan 18, 2003, at 15:37 Europe/London, Robert Gray wrote:

>>  Same all same, except people who sell their software are accepting
>>  payment for the license that rightfully belongs to the software
>>  producer.  Which is more "honorable" or ethical?
>
> As I understand it, only the owner of the copywrite has the right to
> sell a license; however, if it isn't forbidden in the license, the
> holder of the license may transfer their right to a new holder (and
> subsequently give up their right to future use of that software
> license).

Did I not just say that ;)

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Re: 840av

[Robert Gray]

>  Same all same, except people who sell their software are accepting
>  payment for the license that rightfully belongs to the software
>  producer.  Which is more "honorable" or ethical?

As I understand it, only the owner of the copywrite has the right to 
sell a license; however, if it isn't forbidden in the license, the 
holder of the license may transfer their right to a new holder (and 
subsequently give up their right to future use of that software 
license).

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Re: 840av

[Paul Stamsen]

At 1:02 -0800, 1/18/03,   (E McCann)  observed:



 OK, let's try explaining it this way...

 You put time and money into creating *something.* Car, computer, program,
 whatever. Somebody buys it. Do you *care* if they sell it to someone else
 after they're done with it? No, you've been paid for it.

 You put time and money into creating something. Somebody breaks in and
 steals it, and possibly copies it and gives it to others. Do you care?

 And that's as far as I'm going with it.



 Thanks.  I seriously appreciate your effort to explain what  theft 
of intellectual property is.
From that it  should be obvious why we on the lemlists  do not 
traffic in "warez" , that is bootleg s/w.
--


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Re: 840av

[Mark Benson]

On Saturday, Jan 18, 2003, at 03:59 Europe/London, zhmmy harper wrote:

> Same all same, except people who sell their software are accepting 
> payment
> for the license that rightfully belongs to the software producer.  
> Which is
> more "honorable" or ethical?  Probably doesn't matter anyway, but I do
> understand that it would be better to not mention Limewire.  Whoops, 
> did it
> again.

No, the license belongs to the person who buys the software, and is 
know as the End User License Agreement, or EULA. This, in most if not 
all cases, can be legally transfered from one user to another fro a 
monetary sum at least one. As an example is is legal for an end user to 
transfer EULA license of Windows XP (just plucked that one out of the 
blue because it is one of the few EULAs I've read - I'm not trolling) 
to another user once.

Therefore it is not illegal or frowned upon to sell genuine licensed 
copies of software to others for a fee equivalent to the software's 
intrinsic value. Duplicating and selling, or giving away, by physical, 
digital or paper means however violates the owners EULA, and is illegal.

Limewire is a pit of filth that does nothing but spread the evil taint 
of piracy in music and software. It is the fault of networks like that 
that has prompted the ridiculous means people go to to protect their 
licenses. People make great news fodder of Microsoft's Product 
Activation, or the new copy protected CDs that stop them being ripped 
(as someone who has a massive library of completely legal MP3s from my 
vast CD collection I personally find that particular one very hard to 
swallow) but in reality it is the fault of the software pirate that 
these have come about.

I'm no saint, I've done it before but now I am a working man I refuse 
to scab any longer. I had no option before, I do now. I will pay my way.

-- 
Mark Benson

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Re: 840av

[Mark Benson]

On Saturday, Jan 18, 2003, at 00:28 Europe/London, zhmmy harper wrote:

> Hmm, I didn't know I was sinning because I'm new to this 
> site...however,
> I've seen a lot of used software for sale here so far.  Everyone seems 
> to do
> it but I guess it's baad to talk about it.  But I won't suggest 
> Limewire
> anymore.

We only sell genuine originals of software. We don't sell burned copies 
or duplicate floppies of stuff.

-- 
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Re: 840av

[E McCann]

At 07:59 PM 1/17/2003, zhmmy harper typed thusly:

>Same all same, except people who sell their software are accepting payment
>for the license that rightfully belongs to the software producer.  Which is
>more "honorable" or ethical?


OK, let's try explaining it this way...

You put time and money into creating *something.* Car, computer, program, 
whatever. Somebody buys it. Do you *care* if they sell it to someone else 
after they're done with it? No, you've been paid for it.

You put time and money into creating something. Somebody breaks in and 
steals it, and possibly copies it and gives it to others. Do you care?

And that's as far as I'm going with it.


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Re: 840av

[Paul Stamsen]

At 21:59 -0600, 1/17/03,   (zhmmy harper)  observed:



 Same all same, except people who sell their software are accepting payment
 for the license that rightfully belongs to the software producer.  Which is
 more "honorable" or ethical?  Probably doesn't matter anyway, but I do
 understand that it would be better to not mention Limewire.  Whoops, did it
 again.



Flirting with danger, eh?
--


I'd say you've been adequately warned,
repeat offenses will draw a 72-hour banning.

Paul (<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>)
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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

Same all same, except people who sell their software are accepting payment 
for the license that rightfully belongs to the software producer.  Which is 
more "honorable" or ethical?  Probably doesn't matter anyway, but I do 
understand that it would be better to not mention Limewire.  Whoops, did it 
again.






Original Message Follows
From: E McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:49:58 -0800

At 04:28 PM 1/17/2003, zhmmy harper typed thusly:

 >Hmm, I didn't know I was sinning because I'm new to this site...however,
 >I've seen a lot of used software for sale here so far.  Everyone seems to 
do
 >it but I guess it's baad to talk about it.  But I won't suggest Limewire
 >anymore.

Used software = something on disk or CD, with license, etc. Something the
developer at least got *paid* for the license with.
Limewire = downloaded, no license, "cracked" copies, etc.

There *is* a difference.


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Re: 840av

[E McCann]

At 04:28 PM 1/17/2003, zhmmy harper typed thusly:

>Hmm, I didn't know I was sinning because I'm new to this site...however,
>I've seen a lot of used software for sale here so far.  Everyone seems to do
>it but I guess it's baad to talk about it.  But I won't suggest Limewire
>anymore.

Used software = something on disk or CD, with license, etc. Something the 
developer at least got *paid* for the license with.
Limewire = downloaded, no license, "cracked" copies, etc.

There *is* a difference.


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Re: 840av

[E McCann]

At 03:34 PM 1/17/2003, zhmmy harper typed thusly:

>Look at Belkin USB VIDEOBUSII for Mac.  Comes with install CD that includes
>Strata VideoShop 4.5.1.  You would need 8.6 and a USB to SCSI adaptor.

A few problems here:
1. Quadra = no USB.
2. Quadra = no PCI to put a USB card in.
3. Quadra = no 8.6, which is the biggest problem..
4. USB to SCSI adaptor... which is how common? I've seen them the *other* 
way, SCSI to USB (which is a whole heck of a lot easier, IIRC,) but not USB 
to SCSI (USB device modified for SCSI bus.) I've seen one, which has spotty 
device support, and runs $200 - for which you can buy a PCI Powermac - 
possibly even a beige G3 - and PCI based USB card. Might even have the cash 
for a used or lower-end G3 card for the PCI powermac which would 
probably be more reliable than the adaptor.

>OR..Find Strata VideoShop 4.5.1 somewhere--maybe download from Limewire?

Er... no comment.



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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 18:28 -0600 on 17/01/03, zhmmy harper wrote:

>Hmm, I didn't know I was sinning because I'm new to this site...however,
>I've seen a lot of used software for sale here so far.  Everyone seems to do

Used software is

1) not typically sold here (for-sale posts are allowed once per year per
subscriber; people with more to sell than that allows should check out the
Swaplist) and
2) required to be legal original media in the case that it is.  No CD-R copies,
and certainly nothing burned from various online piracy tools or warez sites,
are allowed, and people found to be selling them in the past have been severely
punished.  These lists will *not* become a haven for pirates.

Even the sale of software burned legally (i.e., the copyright holder has a site
where they distribute the software, someone downloads it, burns it to CD, and
then sells it) is highly frowned upon because it violates distribution licences
in most cases.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

Hmm, I didn't know I was sinning because I'm new to this site...however, 
I've seen a lot of used software for sale here so far.  Everyone seems to do 
it but I guess it's baad to talk about it.  But I won't suggest Limewire 
anymore.






Original Message Follows
From: the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: Re: 840av
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:47:40 -0500

At 17:34 -0600 on 17/01/03, zhmmy harper wrote:

 >Look at Belkin USB VIDEOBUSII for Mac.  Comes with install CD that 
includes
 >Strata VideoShop 4.5.1.  You would need 8.6 and a USB to SCSI adaptor.

And that's gonna work on a Quad how?

 >OR..Find Strata VideoShop 4.5.1 somewhere--maybe download from Limewire?

The suggestion of software piracy is severely frowned upon here.  Don't do 
it
again.
--

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FAQ <http://macfaq.org/index.shtml>
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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 17:34 -0600 on 17/01/03, zhmmy harper wrote:

>Look at Belkin USB VIDEOBUSII for Mac.  Comes with install CD that includes
>Strata VideoShop 4.5.1.  You would need 8.6 and a USB to SCSI adaptor.

And that's gonna work on a Quad how?

>OR..Find Strata VideoShop 4.5.1 somewhere--maybe download from Limewire?

The suggestion of software piracy is severely frowned upon here.  Don't do it
again.
-- 

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Re: 840av

[zhmmy harper]

Look at Belkin USB VIDEOBUSII for Mac.  Comes with install CD that includes 
Strata VideoShop 4.5.1.  You would need 8.6 and a USB to SCSI adaptor.

OR..Find Strata VideoShop 4.5.1 somewhere--maybe download from Limewire?






Original Message Follows
From: "victoria.duggan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
Subject: 840av
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:07:54 +

Hi all I have just found the wonders of editing video on my 840av

I am currently using system 8.1 and apple video player

But is there anything better and quicker than this as a 10min video is
takeing 1hr to compress and render for mpeg viewing.

Victoria.


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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 22:53 + on 18/11/02, vicki wrote:

>ok i did what you said and set it for 115200 and it says that it is
>connecting at that speed but the download speed of web pages is the same.

Yeah, probably because WWW pages are very fragmented downloads.  Try a large
file via FTP.

>Whats the max port  speed for the 840av modem port. and how can i find the

The 840av will handle any modem you can throw at it.
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Re: 840av

[vicki]

Hi Pickle


ok i did what you said and set it for 115200 and it says that it is
connecting at that speed but the download speed of web pages is the same.

Whats the max port  speed for the 840av modem port. and how can i find the
correct modem speed


thanks Victoria


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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 21:01 + on 18/11/02, victoria.duggan wrote:

>Hi all got a 33.6 supra modem fitted to my 840   and  I decided to  use
>free-ppp to access the net when I configured to modem I noticed the port
>speed  box  so I set it to 57600 because I new that this was the ports max.

It's not the port's max speed, but whatever...

>for  some reason  it connects  at  57600 every-time even though the modem
>is a 33.6I have   tried this with all my Mac's and  the 3400  connects

That's 57600 kbps *port speed*, not modem speed.  Set the port speed to 105200
and see if you still get OK connections, because that should better exploit the
capabilities of that modem.
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Re: 840AV

[the pickle]

At 13:40 -0700 on 09/11/02, J Sand wrote:

>Thanks, I did not know they had a fuse.  Is it normaly on the MB or in the
>keyboard?

Never seen one in a keyboard but I suppose there could be one there too.
They're normally on the mobo, but not all Macs have them, or perhaps I haven't
noticed.  I think the 840AV does.
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Re: 840AV

[J Sand]

Thanks, I did not know they had a fuse.  Is it normaly on the MB or in the 
keyboard?






>From: the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
>Subject: Re: 840AV
>Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 14:19:15 -0500
>
>At 10:35 -0700 on 09/11/02, J Sand wrote:
>
> >Ports per say do not go out, but the connections can become loose from 
>their
>
>They can if the ADB fuse is blown.
>--
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>the pickle
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Re: 840AV

[the pickle]

At 10:35 -0700 on 09/11/02, J Sand wrote:

>Ports per say do not go out, but the connections can become loose from their

They can if the ADB fuse is blown.
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Re: 840AV

[J Sand]

Ports per say do not go out, but the connections can become loose from their 
solder joints from repeated tugging on the socket.  This would cause an 
intermitent problem.  It happens on portable CD players where the headphone 
jack gets plugged in/out alot.  Open the keyboard and check to see if the 
wiring's integrity is still there.  A quick touch on the connections with a 
soldering pencil will solve the problem most of the time.








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Re: 840AV

[BugMachine]

Simple answer: no the ADB ports rarely go but you might try checking the PRAM 
and check 4 dust.

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Re: 840AV

[Robert Gray]

>>>Even if you did manage to hack 8.5 to somehow run on it,
>>>Word98 and NS 4.76 won't run.
>>
>>Say what?  Suddenly 8.6 is not able to emulate 68000 code?
>
>No it's simply a case of a 680x0 processor not being able to run PPC code.

Yeah, we know that but the hypothesis was "if you managed to get 8.5 
to run on an 840AV" and the conclusion was "MSWord98 and NS4.76 
wouldn't run."

If it was possible to run 8.5 (which we know it isn't), that would 
imply that somehow the 68040 was running PPC code (which it can't) 
therefore it should have no problem with Word or NS (which is would). 
:-)

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Re: 840AV

[suignrs]

>
>>Even if you did manage to hack 8.5 to somehow run on it,
>>Word98 and NS 4.76 won't run.
>
>Say what?  Suddenly 8.6 is not able to emulate 68000 code?
>
No it's simply a case of a 680x0 processor not being able to run PPC code.


A computer without Windows is like a dog without bricks tied to its head.


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Re: 840AV

[Clark Martin]

At 11:47 AM -0400 9/1/2002, Robert Gray wrote:
>  >Even if you did manage to hack 8.5 to somehow run on it,
>>Word98 and NS 4.76 won't run.
>
>Say what?  Suddenly 8.6 is not able to emulate 68000 code?


No, 8.5 is not able to emulate PPC code on a Q840AV with a 68040 processor.
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Re: 840AV

[Scott Holder]

At 11:47 AM 9/1/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >Even if you did manage to hack 8.5 to somehow run on it,
> >Word98 and NS 4.76 won't run.
>
>Say what?  Suddenly 8.6 is not able to emulate 68000 code?

Nope. Not on a 68040. 8.6 doesn't run on a 68040.

Scott Holder



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Re: 840AV

[Robert Gray]

>Even if you did manage to hack 8.5 to somehow run on it,
>Word98 and NS 4.76 won't run.

Say what?  Suddenly 8.6 is not able to emulate 68000 code?


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Re: 840av

[Terry Mathews]

Anything over 8.1 requires a PPC processor of some sort. Period.


Terry
> In a previous post, I erroneously said that my wife's Q840-AV was
> running OS 8.6.
>
> I was mistaken, and I beg forgiveness for my lapse. Her system runs OS
8.5.
>
> I had to do the install twice (maybe more, it's been a while). But it
> does run, and it ain't that shaggy. The only apps she runs are Netscape
> 4.76 and Office 98 (Word).



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Re: 840av

[Scott Holder]

At 10:23 PM 8/31/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>In a previous post, I erroneously said that my wife's Q840-AV was
>running OS 8.6.
>
>I was mistaken, and I beg forgiveness for my lapse. Her system runs OS 8.5.
>
>I had to do the install twice (maybe more, it's been a while). But it
>does run, and it ain't that shaggy. The only apps she runs are Netscape
>4.76 and Office 98 (Word).

The machine definitely has some kind of PPC upgrade. Even if you did manage 
to hack 8.5 to somehow run on it, Word98 and NS 4.76 won't run. Especially 
Word 98.

Go to the Apple Menu and load up the Apple System Profiler. I can guarantee 
you it'll report something other than a 840AV.

Scott Holder


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Re: 840av

[Allen Davis]

In a previous post, I erroneously said that my wife's Q840-AV was
running OS 8.6.

I was mistaken, and I beg forgiveness for my lapse. Her system runs OS 8.5.

I had to do the install twice (maybe more, it's been a while). But it
does run, and it ain't that shaggy. The only apps she runs are Netscape
4.76 and Office 98 (Word).

Allen
-

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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 14:32 -0400 on 26/08/02, Terry Mathews wrote:

>> >As you know, there is no PPC card for a Q840.
>>
>> Uh-huh.  Exactly :)
>
>Wouldn't the one for the LC475 work?

Not likely at a 40MHz bus speed...
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Re: 840av

[Mark Benson]

>But the LC475 upgrade goes directly into the 040 socket, not the PDS slot.

Aaa, I see. Still probably nope  but it'd be worth a shot. Anyone 
got one they could lend me?

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Re: 840av

[Terry Mathews]

But the LC475 upgrade goes directly into the 040 socket, not the PDS slot.


Terry

> Definitely not. The LCs only have PDS Slots and  the PDS slot on the 
> 840av, although present, is AV functions only and very titchy and 
> generally non-standard.
> 
> The answer therefore is Nope.


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Re: 840av

[Mark Benson]

>  > >As you know, there is no PPC card for a Q840.
>>
>>  Uh-huh.  Exactly :)
>
>Wouldn't the one for the LC475 work?

Definitely not. The LCs only have PDS Slots and  the PDS slot on the 
840av, although present, is AV functions only and very titchy and 
generally non-standard.

The answer therefore is Nope.

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Re: 840av

[Terry Mathews]

> >As you know, there is no PPC card for a Q840.
> 
> Uh-huh.  Exactly :)

Wouldn't the one for the LC475 work?

Terry


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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 10:57 -0700 on 26/08/02, James Jones wrote:

>As you know, there is no PPC card for a Q840.

Uh-huh.  Exactly :)
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Re: 840av

[James Jones]

As you know, there is no PPC card for a Q840.

On Monday, Aug 26, 2002, at 10:49AM, the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>At 16:16 -0700 on 24/08/02, James S Jones wrote:
>
>>As I dimly recall this greater than OS 8.1 issue, there was a hack to
>>install 8.5 on 68040 machines. We can probably all agree that 8.5 is
>
>Yeah, with a PPC card...

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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 16:16 -0700 on 24/08/02, James S Jones wrote:

>As I dimly recall this greater than OS 8.1 issue, there was a hack to
>install 8.5 on 68040 machines. We can probably all agree that 8.5 is

Yeah, with a PPC card...
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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 07:47 -0400 on 23/08/02, Michel Filion Photographe wrote:

>Has anybody out there chipped an 840av with significant results in
>performance...?

Best I've heard of is in the 48MHz area.

>Also, I'm running OS 8.6  on the Quad (72 ram) with Netscape 3.0 Gold.
>I was getting an annoying amount of Java script alerts so I disabled the
>alert box and hacked off the throbber. My question is what's the best

Not any Gold version of Netscape, that's for sure.  I'd go with iCab, but
that's my personal preference; some like Netscape 4.0.8 or 2.x much better.
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Re: 840av

[the pickle]

At 23:22 -0500 on 23/08/02, Allen Davis wrote:

>I've heard the same thing, but it IS possible. Connie's Q840-AV is
>running OS 8.6, NOT 8.1, like I posted before. I can GUARANTEE it has no
>PPC upgrade -- it's a plain-jane 68040 running at 40-MHz. I do remember

You better do some more checking, because like Scott said, there's no way the
8.6 Finder can run without a PPC.

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Re: 840av

[profolio]

I was considering that option. Also one of the profiler (type of machine and os)and 
probably a pic of the box with the splash screen opening.
Michel
> 
> Wrom: XISHJEXXIMQZUIVOTQNQEMSFDULHPQQW
> Date: 2002/08/25 Sun AM 12:46:35 EST
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Quadlist)
> Subject: Re: 840av
> 
> 
> >The hybrid theory makes sense. When I get to the Quad next weekend, I will
> >review the control panel and extension manager to determine what's 8.5 and
> >what's 8.6. I don't think it's just the splash screen. Although, if my
> >memory serves me right, I did jump from 8.1 to 8.6. On Apple's technical
> >specs for 8.6 it clearly states that installation of 8.6 on non-PPC macs or
> >68k macs with a PPC upgrade is '' NOT  supported''. Which I  read (maybe
> >erroneously) as ''It's not impossible but if it doesn't work, we told you
> >so''
> 
> We need a screenshot while you are at it.
> 
> -- 
> 
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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[Jim Pendarvis]

>David:
>
>I have two 20" SuperMac monitors here I bought at auction that use those
>three RGB connectors to plug into the monitor. But that's it. The
>opposite end of the cable fits the Mac's monitor port or the connector
>for the SuperMac video card.
>
>Last summer, I had a high-priced "surge suppressor" that failed during a
>thunderstorm. That monitor got cooked. It's in a closet to this day. For
>some reason I can't bring myself to dispose of it.
>

I just bought a new "surge suppressor". What I actually needed was more
outlets, so the suppression part is just a bonus. But it does include an
equipment guarantee of (up to) $100,000 in case of damage "due to momentary
spikes or surges". Among the exceptions is a specific exclusion for
lightning, because this product is a "surge supressor" not a "lighning
arrestor".

I'm sure this distinction comes from their legal department and likely
reduces the number of claims substantially. But it defintely runs counter
to the common advice for protecting your equipment from thunderstorms.

jim





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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[Allen Davis]

Kyle Kinsey wrote:
> 
> >Lots of really old pro monitors (For CAD/CAM applications) used RGB
> >connectors. They were 'coax'-looking jacks of the type also used by
> >so-called 'Thinnet', an Ethernet technology predating 10BT and RJ-45
> >connectors.
> 
> they are called BNC connectors.

Kyle, YOU DA MAN!!! Yes!!! I couldn't remember what they were called!
You hit it on the head!
> 
> >Usually, a monitor had three of these jacks, one for R, one B, and one G.
> >Different video cards used any number of connectors, (VGA, DB15, coax,
> >sometimes even DB25, I think.) along with the appropriate adaptor cable, to
> >split a video signal into those three channels.

I had to buy a weird little adapter with like 9 DIP switches on it to
get that monitor to work. In fact, I had to buy another one to get the
SuperMac 20" monitor I spoke of in another message to communicate with
my PPC Macs and their Rage video cards!

Allen
-
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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[Allen Davis]

David:

I have two 20" SuperMac monitors here I bought at auction that use those
three RGB connectors to plug into the monitor. But that's it. The
opposite end of the cable fits the Mac's monitor port or the connector
for the SuperMac video card.

Last summer, I had a high-priced "surge suppressor" that failed during a
thunderstorm. That monitor got cooked. It's in a closet to this day. For
some reason I can't bring myself to dispose of it.

My other one is sitting on the floor by my feet. And has been for six
months. It has a mysterious short in its power switch. This puppy will
sit there for another 12 months before I work up the courage to crack
its case open and replace the faulty power switch.

I know how to discharge a throwback transformer. But it's such a
distrubing experience, I'd rather wait until the capacitors, etc., have
a chance to "cool down" voltage-wise. It's a difficult wait; almost like
waiting for radioactive waste to reach its half-life!!! Hearing that
loud *POP* is almost as loud as a .38 Spl. snubnose revolver going off
at close quarters. I know because I've done it before.

I had a double-page display monitor at one time (B/W only as it turned
out -- NOT grayscale) that had only a "coax" input into it. I gave $3
for it at auction, but ended up paying a landfill fee for it. It
required a proprietary video card, which the idiots I bought the thing
from didn't know about or mention.

What I NEED is Pickle's "Knowledge Database" before I ever go to another
auction! That, or hunt him down and drag him along with me! ;-)

Allen
-

David Pierce wrote:
> 
> It occurs to me that if none of us can remember this thing, it has to be
> realy old. If it's really old and has 8 MBs of VRAM, it must have been
> really expensive.
> 
> Lots of really old pro monitors (For CAD/CAM applications) used RGB
> connectors. They were 'coax'-looking jacks of the type also used by
> so-called 'Thinnet', an Ethernet technology predating 10BT and RJ-45
> connectors.
> 
> Usually, a monitor had three of these jacks, one for R, one B, and one G.
> Different video cards used any number of connectors, (VGA, DB15, coax,
> sometimes even DB25, I think.) along with the appropriate adaptor cable, to
> split a video signal into those three channels.
> 
> This mysterious plug is probably an extension of that, possibly for color
> correction.

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Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK

[Allen Davis]

I suppose I could take a picture of it with my old Kodak DC-480 digital
camera, but I'm not a very good photographer where taking macro-type
pics are concerned. I'll TRY to get to it tonight, but I won't promise.
Tomorrow I have my granddaughter for the weekend, so I'm booked. After
that, I might forget -- so remind me.

Allen

the pickle wrote:
> 
> At 20:29 -0500 on 15/08/02, Allen Davis wrote:
> 
> >Please see my previous reply.
> 
> If you can scan that card, or get a photo of it, I'd be very interested.
> Asanté made lots of networking gear but this is the first instance of a video
> card from them that I'm aware of.
> --
> 
> the pickle

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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[the pickle]

At 14:59 -0700 on 16/08/02, Ed Murphy wrote:

>--- David Pierce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>For "* 1600x1200 up to 24-bit (1600 only)" to be true, the 1600 at
>> least
>> >>would have had to have more than 4 MBs of SGRAM.
>> >
>> >Yet it doesn't.  Strange, huh?
>>
>> Not so strange, at least ssuming you're right. Although 5.5 MBs of
>> memory
>> is required to store a 1600x1200 bitmap, the card just has to draw a
>> portion of the image to the screen each time it refreshes memory. Cut
>> in
>> half, it could theoreticlly get by with 3 MBs of VRAM.
>
>As long as we're guessing, my guess is that the card does not do 24 bit
>at it's maximum resolution.  If it could only do 16bit at 1600x1200,
>that would take just under 4mb.  The phrase "1600x1200 up to 24 bit"
>should be taken as two separate statements; it can do 1600x1200, it can
>do up to 24 bit.  Probably not both at the same time.

The Thunder IV GX 1600 can do 1600x1200 @ 24-bit.
-- 

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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[Ed Murphy]

--- David Pierce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>For "* 1600x1200 up to 24-bit (1600 only)" to be true, the 1600 at
> least
> >>would have had to have more than 4 MBs of SGRAM.
> >
> >Yet it doesn't.  Strange, huh?
> 
> Not so strange, at least ssuming you're right. Although 5.5 MBs of
> memory
> is required to store a 1600x1200 bitmap, the card just has to draw a
> portion of the image to the screen each time it refreshes memory. Cut
> in
> half, it could theoreticlly get by with 3 MBs of VRAM.

As long as we're guessing, my guess is that the card does not do 24 bit
at it's maximum resolution.  If it could only do 16bit at 1600x1200,
that would take just under 4mb.  The phrase "1600x1200 up to 24 bit"
should be taken as two separate statements; it can do 1600x1200, it can
do up to 24 bit.  Probably not both at the same time.




=
-
Ed Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[the pickle]

At 13:45 -0400 on 16/08/02, David Pierce wrote:

>>>For "* 1600x1200 up to 24-bit (1600 only)" to be true, the 1600 at least
>>>would have had to have more than 4 MBs of SGRAM.
>>
>>Yet it doesn't.  Strange, huh?
>
>Not so strange, at least ssuming you're right. Although 5.5 MBs of memory
>is required to store a 1600x1200 bitmap, the card just has to draw a
>portion of the image to the screen each time it refreshes memory. Cut in
>half, it could theoreticlly get by with 3 MBs of VRAM.

Which is exactly what it has :)

>The real question is, why the heck would a bunch of engineers designing a
>$3000 video card to eek every last shred of Photoshop performance out of a
>Quadra 950 or Powermac 8100 have done that? It's phenomenally stupid.

Probably because putting 6MB of RAM on it would have cost another $1000 or 2...

>Everymac.com is alone in stating that the Radius System 100 (A NuBus Power
>Mac Clone) had 8 MBs of VRAM.
>http://www.everymac.com/systems/radius/system/system100.html
>
>You'll probably say they're wrong, of course, but that's my point - nobody

It had a Thunder IV GX 1600 in it, and I know that only had 3MB, so Everymac
must be confused :)

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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[David Pierce]

>>For "* 1600x1200 up to 24-bit (1600 only)" to be true, the 1600 at least
>>would have had to have more than 4 MBs of SGRAM.
>
>Yet it doesn't.  Strange, huh?

Not so strange, at least ssuming you're right. Although 5.5 MBs of memory
is required to store a 1600x1200 bitmap, the card just has to draw a
portion of the image to the screen each time it refreshes memory. Cut in
half, it could theoreticlly get by with 3 MBs of VRAM.

With 80 ns memory, it's running way faster than the monitor's refresh rate
anyway, and the card's CPU is already handling timing. Weird things happen
when you draw to a monitor when it's halfway done refreshing, or so I'm
told.

The real question is, why the heck would a bunch of engineers designing a
$3000 video card to eek every last shred of Photoshop performance out of a
Quadra 950 or Powermac 8100 have done that? It's phenomenally stupid.

Unfortunately, there's really not enough information on the web to verify
anything, now that Radiusvintage is gone.

Everymac.com is alone in stating that the Radius System 100 (A NuBus Power
Mac Clone) had 8 MBs of VRAM.
http://www.everymac.com/systems/radius/system/system100.html

You'll probably say they're wrong, of course, but that's my point - nobody
has a definitive answer. MacUser's toast, MacWorld doesn't archive stuff
that old... *sigh*

All anybody has is the conviction that they remember correctly.

-Dave



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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[the pickle]

At 11:58 -0400 on 16/08/02, David Pierce wrote:

>>>cards have 128 or even 256 MBs of memory on them now. Either way, if a 4 MB
>>>card can exist, so can an 8 MB one - it's up to whoever designed the card.
>>
>>It could, but it never did.
>
>what about http://lowendmac.com/video/thunder4gx.html ?
>
>For "* 1600x1200 up to 24-bit (1600 only)" to be true, the 1600 at least
>would have had to have more than 4 MBs of SGRAM.

Yet it doesn't.  Strange, huh?
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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[David Pierce]

>>cards have 128 or even 256 MBs of memory on them now. Either way, if a 4 MB
>>card can exist, so can an 8 MB one - it's up to whoever designed the card.
>
>It could, but it never did.

what about http://lowendmac.com/video/thunder4gx.html ?

For "* 1600x1200 up to 24-bit (1600 only)" to be true, the 1600 at least
would have had to have more than 4 MBs of SGRAM.



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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[the pickle]

At 11:34 -0400 on 16/08/02, David Pierce wrote:

>I don't speak in absolutes - it' too easy to be proven wrong. Besides, I

I don't speak in absolutes unless I know I'm right :)

>A pure 16-bit system can only address 128 KB of memory anyway, so there has
>to be some kind of kludge used for NuBus video cards. If I'm incorrect and
>NuBus is 32-bit, then I should point out that AGP is also 32bit, and those

It is.

>cards have 128 or even 256 MBs of memory on them now. Either way, if a 4 MB
>card can exist, so can an 8 MB one - it's up to whoever designed the card.

It could, but it never did.
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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[David Pierce]

>At 11:04 -0400 on 16/08/02, David Pierce wrote:
>
>>It occurs to me that if none of us can remember this thing, it has to be
>>realy old. If it's really old and has 8 MBs of VRAM, it must have been
>
>There aren't *any* NuBus video cards with more than 4MB.
>--

I don't speak in absolutes - it' too easy to be proven wrong. Besides, I
can only go on what _he_ says about the card.

"I just kept scratching my head and wondering what the heck the "cable"
connector was for. You may not even want this card. From what I can
tell, I think it only has 8-MB of VRAM installed on it, and it's all
soldered to the card." - Allen Davis

A pure 16-bit system can only address 128 KB of memory anyway, so there has
to be some kind of kludge used for NuBus video cards. If I'm incorrect and
NuBus is 32-bit, then I should point out that AGP is also 32bit, and those
cards have 128 or even 256 MBs of memory on them now. Either way, if a 4 MB
card can exist, so can an 8 MB one - it's up to whoever designed the card.



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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[Kyle Kinsey]

>Lots of really old pro monitors (For CAD/CAM applications) used RGB
>connectors. They were 'coax'-looking jacks of the type also used by
>so-called 'Thinnet', an Ethernet technology predating 10BT and RJ-45
>connectors.

they are called BNC connectors.

>Usually, a monitor had three of these jacks, one for R, one B, and one G.
>Different video cards used any number of connectors, (VGA, DB15, coax,
>sometimes even DB25, I think.) along with the appropriate adaptor cable, to
>split a video signal into those three channels.
>

Actually there were also 5 BNC connectors for even better picture quality,
on those the sync was transmitted seperatly too)
Has a monitor with such input but it blew up last year ;-)


Kyle.



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Re: Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[the pickle]

At 11:04 -0400 on 16/08/02, David Pierce wrote:

>It occurs to me that if none of us can remember this thing, it has to be
>realy old. If it's really old and has 8 MBs of VRAM, it must have been

There aren't *any* NuBus video cards with more than 4MB.
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Asante Video Card? (Was Re: 840AV FLOPPY WON'T WORK)

[David Pierce]

It occurs to me that if none of us can remember this thing, it has to be
realy old. If it's really old and has 8 MBs of VRAM, it must have been
really expensive.

Lots of really old pro monitors (For CAD/CAM applications) used RGB
connectors. They were 'coax'-looking jacks of the type also used by
so-called 'Thinnet', an Ethernet technology predating 10BT and RJ-45
connectors.

Usually, a monitor had three of these jacks, one for R, one B, and one G.
Different video cards used any number of connectors, (VGA, DB15, coax,
sometimes even DB25, I think.) along with the appropriate adaptor cable, to
split a video signal into those three channels.

This mysterious plug is probably an extension of that, possibly for color
correction.

OT: The old lab of 486s in the Computer Science department my Freshman year
used Thinnet. Apple's AAUI technology was adopted because it enabled the
user to purchase any kind of tranciever they wanted - 10BT, Thinnet, or
whatever was about to be invented - and use it with a single 'Ethernet'
jack on their computer. It probably cut Apple's costs considerably, as
there were at least three competing formats at the time, if memory serves.

-David

>When I brought the beast home, I also had a trunk-full of those old 14"
>Apple color monitors. I hooked one up to the machine this particlar card
>was installed in. The video worked perfectly.
>
>I just kept scratching my head and wondering what the heck the "cable"
>connector was for. You may not even want this card. From what I can
>tell, I think it only has 8-MB of VRAM installed on it, and it's all
>soldered to the card.
>
>The circuit board is clearly marked on the upper-right-hand corner,
>"Asante Technologies, Inc."
>
>This card has 4 relatively large disk-type capacitors and some HUGE
>diodes (by today's standards). Upon really close inspection (under mild
>magification) I see this card actually has two small adjustable
>resistors (potentiometers). I have no clue about this card other than it
>will drive a 13"-15" monitor.
>
>Allen



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