Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Great discussion, In many industries a vendor analysis is conducted on a multitude of parameters to indentify the best vendor. As many from outside the Qubes world have gravitated to Qubes for those reasons. >From what I am reading, we need all hands on deck and a war chest. >Ideologically, you are doing what most IT enterprises whish they could do. >From a user stand point, updates are a risk if you can't roll them back. There was a mention of a 3rd party vendors that provides installation bridges and how they need to be trusted. Currently, I am trying to figure out how to install and application directly from the vendor in order to limit the possible number of attackers. Is this above my proficiency level? Very likely, but the alternative is to have a 3rd party decide what/when/where to update a scrip or what to copy, delete, and modify my data. Let me give you another example: did you know that SIM cloning and credit card scams can occur because of insider access? Will paranoia become the new normal? Or can we make good assumptions or decissions based on past experiences? Let's keep moving forward, -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/4772a5c3-72a1-4ca3-8386-29ab7d280bc6o%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Sven Semmler: > On 8/10/20 11:05 AM, Toptin wrote: >> I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes >> documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain >> decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as >> main distribution. > > This issue is a good starting point to understand what would be needed > to move away from Fedora (to e.g. Debian): > https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1919 Thanks Sven. That's what I was looking for. > > ... if you skip to the end you'll see the project lead commenting: > "That isn't decided yet, but at the point when we'll be minimizing > dom0, more likely option would be something capable of building light > system images, for example Yocto." > > This refers to an ongoing effort to move the GUI and other functions > out of dom0 and into a dedicated GUI qube among other things. > https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2020/03/18/gui-domain/ > https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/4186 > >> I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't >> even supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just >> curiosity. > > R4.1 will probably be based on Fedora 32 > https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/5763 > > /Sven > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/c8e93169-1381-4e94-3e90-e2b88ebece3b%40riseup.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Mike Keehan: > On 8/11/20 7:21 PM, Mike Keehan wrote: >> On 8/11/20 7:13 PM, Toptin wrote: >>> Mike Keehan: On 8/11/20 6:08 PM, Toptin wrote: > Toptin: >> Dear Qubes Users, >> >> I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes >> documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain >> decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora >> as main >> distribution. >> >> I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even >> supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. >> >> Regards, toptin. >> > > I still look for the rationale; what was/is the technical necessity to > use Fedora. I do not look for ideologies, because I don't have one in > regard to an OS. I choose an OS based on the objective I have in mind. > This subject has been discussed many times on this list, plus there are documented reasons for this on the website. You will have to search for them, I can't remember the urls. >>> >>> I actually did search the webpage and even read the architectural design >>> paper and the website, but I couldn't find anything in regard technical >>> necessity. >>> >>> What I found was this: >>> >>> " >>> But why trust Fedora? >>> >>> Because we chose to use Fedora as a vendor for the Qubes OS foundation >>> (e.g. for Dom0 packages and for AppVM packages). We also chose to trust >>> several other vendors, such as Xen.org, kernel.org, and a few others >>> whose software we use in Dom0. We had to trust somebody as we are unable >>> to write all the software from scratch ourselves. But there is a big >>> difference in trusting all Fedora packages to be non-malicious (in terms >>> of installation scripts) vs. trusting all those packages are non-buggy >>> and non-exploitable. We certainly do not assume the latter. >>> " >>> Taken from https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/templates/ today. >>> >>> So, if that's all than it wasn't a technical decision just a choice, >>> probably just because the developer was used to it: see 3rd reply by >>> Jeff Kayser. >>> Mike >>> >> The reasons why the developers believe an old Fedora release is >> safe in dom0 has been explained before. I think it was Marek >> who replied to an email question. It made perfect sense at the >> time, but I couldn't quote it after all this time. >> >> Mike. >> > > A bit of searching found this - > > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/supported-versions/#note-on-dom0-and-eol > Thanks, must have overlooked it. So, so far I gather the rationale to use Fedora is less a technical but more a trust (signed packages) rationale and with which distribution the developers were comfortable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/1ecb3b49-50fa-c15f-e874-07013f29d1dc%40riseup.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 8/10/20 11:05 AM, Toptin wrote: > I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes > documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain > decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as > main distribution. This issue is a good starting point to understand what would be needed to move away from Fedora (to e.g. Debian): https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1919 ... if you skip to the end you'll see the project lead commenting: "That isn't decided yet, but at the point when we'll be minimizing dom0, more likely option would be something capable of building light system images, for example Yocto." This refers to an ongoing effort to move the GUI and other functions out of dom0 and into a dedicated GUI qube among other things. https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2020/03/18/gui-domain/ https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/4186 > I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't > even supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just > curiosity. R4.1 will probably be based on Fedora 32 https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/5763 /Sven - -- public key: https://www.svensemmler.org/0x8F541FB6.asc fingerprint: D7CA F2DB 658D 89BC 08D6 A7AA DA6E 167B 8F54 1FB6 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE18ry22WNibwI1qeq2m4We49UH7YFAl8zalMACgkQ2m4We49U H7aOwQ/6AtITbU+YOxNuOzrSfLsJIQMfQHzok02EmoS7NTp7VJrWyykDXwLPRAeV 1OzxnxZiy66AD+CxKRgSCkLbjcuNfFzUupm2WuCVXZ38FfHNQWTrALoiJy/PVn57 yHRk/0h3A0nJKealG9QUQiKHJgTyGblFu+nNPUU641dqz2ujw9Ihs5WgH6PsdkVA Etg5JSf+13ZMlEkYTj9DVlRq4uF+qiM2gYALq2cR1qtybaFffTYxXEQ9dMZPQlYZ xpY8Irzo87DG7eFr9R1VXII6IPwEH7mBzWu+U14ZY6gKPUNjABmgb0GkjW8Jl2UM 9poCEJmXGNEuwKx2MJjubNGMWH9p2RY27hAGl0X2dLqeVGkMnZW0n4/4emO/IIIs BmOY/tH3oZ4KupjW6RTHoZTjQ9q9Tfne08ilQcJSljEHfuISmwg/dT9V4mwWtmi7 zjEDLYAiRUU5mFpBY1KNkYxQFApZy3pubXiuqeEQk3FptYBkRNLH927L4N5Q2B7v nwjCv+21WsbZEImw/gSCP83Xa67x1pMKc6mcl4gdAufz1VnDqWOtXgu2zAV2Vq/V 9WcfsDfFh6Wr5C6dWBVuupxfquz5IbEvx1ELrpW/OKE/SkiHX2+Asu7oLvOBaELc 9nT87+zjf650aQlZYCTRjOV/4PkoHMQQVKsCwfPVtP0O4gpbc9U= =cJjH -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/66fdbedc-2350-0ec8-7402-31ffc81dc7aa%40SvenSemmler.org.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
On 8/11/20 7:21 PM, Mike Keehan wrote: On 8/11/20 7:13 PM, Toptin wrote: Mike Keehan: On 8/11/20 6:08 PM, Toptin wrote: Toptin: Dear Qubes Users, I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as main distribution. I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. Regards, toptin. I still look for the rationale; what was/is the technical necessity to use Fedora. I do not look for ideologies, because I don't have one in regard to an OS. I choose an OS based on the objective I have in mind. This subject has been discussed many times on this list, plus there are documented reasons for this on the website. You will have to search for them, I can't remember the urls. I actually did search the webpage and even read the architectural design paper and the website, but I couldn't find anything in regard technical necessity. What I found was this: " But why trust Fedora? Because we chose to use Fedora as a vendor for the Qubes OS foundation (e.g. for Dom0 packages and for AppVM packages). We also chose to trust several other vendors, such as Xen.org, kernel.org, and a few others whose software we use in Dom0. We had to trust somebody as we are unable to write all the software from scratch ourselves. But there is a big difference in trusting all Fedora packages to be non-malicious (in terms of installation scripts) vs. trusting all those packages are non-buggy and non-exploitable. We certainly do not assume the latter. " Taken from https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/templates/ today. So, if that's all than it wasn't a technical decision just a choice, probably just because the developer was used to it: see 3rd reply by Jeff Kayser. Mike The reasons why the developers believe an old Fedora release is safe in dom0 has been explained before. I think it was Marek who replied to an email question. It made perfect sense at the time, but I couldn't quote it after all this time. Mike. A bit of searching found this - https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/supported-versions/#note-on-dom0-and-eol -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/b1c1641e-b92d-5cf7-e27a-c9b10019024e%40keehan.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
On 8/11/20 7:13 PM, Toptin wrote: Mike Keehan: On 8/11/20 6:08 PM, Toptin wrote: Toptin: Dear Qubes Users, I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as main distribution. I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. Regards, toptin. I still look for the rationale; what was/is the technical necessity to use Fedora. I do not look for ideologies, because I don't have one in regard to an OS. I choose an OS based on the objective I have in mind. This subject has been discussed many times on this list, plus there are documented reasons for this on the website. You will have to search for them, I can't remember the urls. I actually did search the webpage and even read the architectural design paper and the website, but I couldn't find anything in regard technical necessity. What I found was this: " But why trust Fedora? Because we chose to use Fedora as a vendor for the Qubes OS foundation (e.g. for Dom0 packages and for AppVM packages). We also chose to trust several other vendors, such as Xen.org, kernel.org, and a few others whose software we use in Dom0. We had to trust somebody as we are unable to write all the software from scratch ourselves. But there is a big difference in trusting all Fedora packages to be non-malicious (in terms of installation scripts) vs. trusting all those packages are non-buggy and non-exploitable. We certainly do not assume the latter. " Taken from https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/templates/ today. So, if that's all than it wasn't a technical decision just a choice, probably just because the developer was used to it: see 3rd reply by Jeff Kayser. Mike The reasons why the developers believe an old Fedora release is safe in dom0 has been explained before. I think it was Marek who replied to an email question. It made perfect sense at the time, but I couldn't quote it after all this time. Mike. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/c54c00d6-cba7-cdbb-6ceb-10805038ceea%40keehan.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Mike Keehan: > On 8/11/20 6:08 PM, Toptin wrote: >> Toptin: >>> Dear Qubes Users, >>> >>> I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes >>> documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain >>> decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as main >>> distribution. >>> >>> I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even >>> supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. >>> >>> Regards, toptin. >>> >> >> I still look for the rationale; what was/is the technical necessity to >> use Fedora. I do not look for ideologies, because I don't have one in >> regard to an OS. I choose an OS based on the objective I have in mind. >> > > This subject has been discussed many times on this list, plus there are > documented reasons for this on the website. You will have to search for > them, I can't remember the urls. I actually did search the webpage and even read the architectural design paper and the website, but I couldn't find anything in regard technical necessity. What I found was this: " But why trust Fedora? Because we chose to use Fedora as a vendor for the Qubes OS foundation (e.g. for Dom0 packages and for AppVM packages). We also chose to trust several other vendors, such as Xen.org, kernel.org, and a few others whose software we use in Dom0. We had to trust somebody as we are unable to write all the software from scratch ourselves. But there is a big difference in trusting all Fedora packages to be non-malicious (in terms of installation scripts) vs. trusting all those packages are non-buggy and non-exploitable. We certainly do not assume the latter. " Taken from https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/templates/ today. So, if that's all than it wasn't a technical decision just a choice, probably just because the developer was used to it: see 3rd reply by Jeff Kayser. > > Mike > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/a43a38a7-9296-4ced-5d68-02d6cb6b799b%40riseup.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
On 8/11/20 11:31 AM, Claudio Chinicz wrote: Hi, I've been following this thread, as well as others on this user group. Without being critic, or trying to bring some positive feedback, I can say that Qubes needs to evolve towards to being more user friendly and manageable as a corporate product. On the positive side, I can say from my personal experience that, once properly configured, it works and is stable. Maybe creating some user admin features that would limit what an end user can do would make it "user proof" (is there something like that?) and enterprise fit. From this perspective, the underlying OS is less of a concern, provided it is stable and automatically upgradable. Qubes does have remote management capability. However, we should be careful what we wish for, lest we wake up one day with the realization that Qubes is a kind of 'IntelME in software' environment. -- Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net https://github.com/tasket https://twitter.com/ttaskett PGP: BEE2 20C5 356E 764A 73EB 4AB3 1DC4 D106 F07F 1886 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/94e344d5-c5d6-67b6-e137-7ff78034b618%40posteo.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
On 8/11/20 6:08 PM, Toptin wrote: Toptin: Dear Qubes Users, I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as main distribution. I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. Regards, toptin. I still look for the rationale; what was/is the technical necessity to use Fedora. I do not look for ideologies, because I don't have one in regard to an OS. I choose an OS based on the objective I have in mind. This subject has been discussed many times on this list, plus there are documented reasons for this on the website. You will have to search for them, I can't remember the urls. Mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/1851c24c-8057-4baa-51b6-5e959570791c%40keehan.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
In the corporate world users usually have no choice but to use their laptops domain joined to the company MS AD, which enforces strict policies. This is required from a security point of view as well as from an operational point view, because user support may cost a lot of money. Users often cannot install applications on their notebooks and BYOD is avoided as much as possible and when inevitable usually not connected to corporate network but rather to some open/visitors wifi. That's the reality I see. In this world, there is no free choice for the user, it comes as a package with everything they need. Of course, a user may request some special purpose software, but it will have to be through IT. That's what I meant when I wrote about Qubes being far from being an enterprise product. I'm not an advocate of Windows, it's just reality. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/8c7a8856-69fa-4d82-a519-b67bcd5e1a0ao%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Toptin: > Dear Qubes Users, > > I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes > documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain > decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as main > distribution. > > I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even > supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. > > Regards, toptin. > I still look for the rationale; what was/is the technical necessity to use Fedora. I do not look for ideologies, because I don't have one in regard to an OS. I choose an OS based on the objective I have in mind. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/944326d6-cc6c-1c7b-31ad-0d9a00a7bdec%40riseup.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Claudio Chinicz: > Hi, I've been following this thread, as well as others on this user group. > > Without being critic, or trying to bring some positive feedback, I can say > that Qubes needs to evolve towards to being more user friendly and manageable > as a corporate product. On the positive side, I can say from my personal > experience that, once properly configured, it works and is stable. Maybe > creating some user admin features that would limit what an end user can do > would make it "user proof" (is there something like that?) and enterprise fit. What you mean by "user proof"? I guess you mean non-technical people. Something that's fool proof in regard of the usability for non-technical or technical people has to be invented yet. But I think that's the wrong approach. The presentation of the OS should be in a way that it is understandable for average human beings. The use of all those fancy terminologies should be avoided. The desktop manager should be a choice by the end-user (e.g. Xfce, KDE, Gnome, etc.). The administration should be realized with scripts that can be implemented in any of these DMs. The system should implement rolling updates that would eliminate tedious and error prone version upgrades. It should be possible to use the backups of the system on a different system. Meaning that since Qubes leverages VMs that there should be two types of backups: A) A full system backup, which includes all the VMs' vdisks, and B) A traditional backup of the user data. The reason for that is that a restored VM might not start and can't be repaired. I've seen that a lot in huge VMware installations. > >>From this perspective, the underlying OS is less of a concern, provided it is >>stable and automatically upgradable. > I agree with the last part of the statement, but else I consider the OS as one of the most important pieces of the whole system; especially the Linux kernel that's especially true in regard to laptops. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/09b5d3da-f91c-2224-ccc9-0c761a060daa%40riseup.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Hi, I've been following this thread, as well as others on this user group. Without being critic, or trying to bring some positive feedback, I can say that Qubes needs to evolve towards to being more user friendly and manageable as a corporate product. On the positive side, I can say from my personal experience that, once properly configured, it works and is stable. Maybe creating some user admin features that would limit what an end user can do would make it "user proof" (is there something like that?) and enterprise fit. >From this perspective, the underlying OS is less of a concern, provided it is >stable and automatically upgradable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/725d5f41-4b2b-4868-9884-9bf1781d90d5o%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Chris Laprise: > On 8/10/20 5:22 PM, Toptin wrote: >> Chris Laprise: >>> On 8/10/20 12:30 PM, Toptin wrote: >>>> Jeff Kayser: >>>>> Here is one reason to use Fedora. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.fossmint.com/which-linux-distribution-does-linus-torvalds-use/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Ah, see... Mr Torvalds is your God. That isn't a reason at all. But >>>> thanks you put a smile on my face. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> ~Jeff Kayser >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message- >>>>> From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On >>>>> Behalf Of Chris Laprise >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:18 AM >>>>> To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? >>>>> >>>>> This email originated from outside the organization >>>>> >>>>> On 8/10/20 12:05 PM, Toptin wrote: >>>>>> Dear Qubes Users, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes >>>>>> documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain >>>>>> decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as >>>>>> main distribution. >>>>>> >>>>>> I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even >>>>>> supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, toptin. >>> >>> I think the subtext here is that Fedora gets the changes first and it >>> makes a good development environment (for Linux code anyway). But that's >>> also why they don't curate or test or secure it like a regular >>> production-ready OS. And also why they don't care about having a wide >>> array of apps. >>> >>> I'd rather see a transition to something more stable like Debian which >>> is also flexible enough to let you pull in newer packages from a tiered >>> repository (stable, testing, unstable, and experimental). >>> >> >> That was my thinking too, but still as mentioned in my previous post I >> would have thought something like Arch-Linux or even Gentoo would be >> better choice because both distribution are actually meta-distributions >> (a distribution to build a target distribution). I worked with both and >> wouldn't recommend it to an end-user but for development to build >> something like Qubes? Yes, I would consider that. >> >> Nothing against Debian. Definitely not. Very trustworthy and >> knowledgeable community, but still quite a big system, especially if one >> wants to strip it down. And then those unfortunate version upgrades. But >> once it's installed it's rock solid. > > I don't know if bare-minimum really signifies, at least with the way > most people define it. A lot of the things you would remove to reduce > attack surface won't make a big impact on the install's disk space > usage In regards to the install-image, yes. But I have in mind the modularization (isolation, separation) all such modules should only hold as much code as they need to have to fulfill their function in the system. So, the individual modules are stripped down to the bare minimum, just enough to do the job they are designed for. Having said that it means of course that one gets a lot of modules, which results in an overall bigger system than a traditional OS. That's the price that has to be paid if one wants more security, privacy, and anonymity. In short wants to back in the drivers seat; in control. Compounding that is Qubes being a PC operating system after all, > and I've found just about the only DE that gets all the GUI and HID > stuff working correctly is big ol KDE. For most users, XFCE is suitable > for already mired-in-Linux users who are conditioned to accept broken or > absent UI features. That's funny. My experience with KDE is exactly the opposite. In my mind there is no perfect DE. For me a good DE is light (does not waste resources (fancy desktop effects)), is fully configurable; knows it's place: managing the desktop. > > OTOH if its the klocs themselves that are seen as a threat (enabling > attacks from upstream) then that's a tough spot bc very low kloc IMO is > a recipe for bad UI w too many missing features that make users feel > paralyzed. At the end of the day these are still computers and their job > is to manage complex
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
On 8/10/20 5:22 PM, Toptin wrote: Chris Laprise: On 8/10/20 12:30 PM, Toptin wrote: Jeff Kayser: Here is one reason to use Fedora. https://www.fossmint.com/which-linux-distribution-does-linus-torvalds-use/ Ah, see... Mr Torvalds is your God. That isn't a reason at all. But thanks you put a smile on my face. ~Jeff Kayser -Original Message- From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Chris Laprise Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:18 AM To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? This email originated from outside the organization On 8/10/20 12:05 PM, Toptin wrote: Dear Qubes Users, I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as main distribution. I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. Regards, toptin. I think the subtext here is that Fedora gets the changes first and it makes a good development environment (for Linux code anyway). But that's also why they don't curate or test or secure it like a regular production-ready OS. And also why they don't care about having a wide array of apps. I'd rather see a transition to something more stable like Debian which is also flexible enough to let you pull in newer packages from a tiered repository (stable, testing, unstable, and experimental). That was my thinking too, but still as mentioned in my previous post I would have thought something like Arch-Linux or even Gentoo would be better choice because both distribution are actually meta-distributions (a distribution to build a target distribution). I worked with both and wouldn't recommend it to an end-user but for development to build something like Qubes? Yes, I would consider that. Nothing against Debian. Definitely not. Very trustworthy and knowledgeable community, but still quite a big system, especially if one wants to strip it down. And then those unfortunate version upgrades. But once it's installed it's rock solid. I don't know if bare-minimum really signifies, at least with the way most people define it. A lot of the things you would remove to reduce attack surface won't make a big impact on the install's disk space usage. Compounding that is Qubes being a PC operating system after all, and I've found just about the only DE that gets all the GUI and HID stuff working correctly is big ol KDE. For most users, XFCE is suitable for already mired-in-Linux users who are conditioned to accept broken or absent UI features. OTOH if its the klocs themselves that are seen as a threat (enabling attacks from upstream) then that's a tough spot bc very low kloc IMO is a recipe for bad UI w too many missing features that make users feel paralyzed. At the end of the day these are still computers and their job is to manage complexity and _that_ requires lots of vertical integration. -- Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net https://github.com/tasket https://twitter.com/ttaskett PGP: BEE2 20C5 356E 764A 73EB 4AB3 1DC4 D106 F07F 1886 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/6ff01b60-02ad-2ba0-d5c2-033902d667dd%40posteo.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Chris Laprise: > On 8/10/20 12:30 PM, Toptin wrote: >> Jeff Kayser: >>> Here is one reason to use Fedora. >>> >>> https://www.fossmint.com/which-linux-distribution-does-linus-torvalds-use/ >>> >> >> Ah, see... Mr Torvalds is your God. That isn't a reason at all. But >> thanks you put a smile on my face. >> >>> >>> ~Jeff Kayser >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On >>> Behalf Of Chris Laprise >>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:18 AM >>> To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? >>> >>> This email originated from outside the organization >>> >>> On 8/10/20 12:05 PM, Toptin wrote: >>>> Dear Qubes Users, >>>> >>>> I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes >>>> documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain >>>> decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as >>>> main distribution. >>>> >>>> I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even >>>> supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. >>>> >>>> Regards, toptin. > > I think the subtext here is that Fedora gets the changes first and it > makes a good development environment (for Linux code anyway). But that's > also why they don't curate or test or secure it like a regular > production-ready OS. And also why they don't care about having a wide > array of apps. > > I'd rather see a transition to something more stable like Debian which > is also flexible enough to let you pull in newer packages from a tiered > repository (stable, testing, unstable, and experimental). > That was my thinking too, but still as mentioned in my previous post I would have thought something like Arch-Linux or even Gentoo would be better choice because both distribution are actually meta-distributions (a distribution to build a target distribution). I worked with both and wouldn't recommend it to an end-user but for development to build something like Qubes? Yes, I would consider that. Nothing against Debian. Definitely not. Very trustworthy and knowledgeable community, but still quite a big system, especially if one wants to strip it down. And then those unfortunate version upgrades. But once it's installed it's rock solid. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/a723cfbd-df7c-2161-e445-a2753d318f7a%40riseup.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
7;t even mean the security it > provides, just the plain freaking awesomeness of how quickly one can > achieve certain things. Just something as simple as spinning up a new VM > just to test something. ZFS can improve current functionality. > > OmniosCE is under active development I have been a part of that > community for a while. I can recommend it. > >> However I got your point. >> >> Thanks for clarifying. >> >> Regards, toptin. >> >>> >>> ~Jeff Kayser >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On >>> Behalf Of Toptin >>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:30 AM >>> To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? >>> >>> This email originated from outside the organization >>> >>> Jeff Kayser: >>>> Here is one reason to use Fedora. >>>> >>>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. >>>> fossmint.com%2Fwhich-linux-distribution-does-linus-torvalds-use%2F& >>>> ;data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7Cfab8ee9071e24793fa >>>> ce08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C6373267377 >>>> 62988903&sdata=dPvgOWqLbgomi%2BMnI1TqGMqdebCxwUBLQQmiFehVNy0%3D&am >>>> p;reserved=0 >>> >>> Ah, see... Mr Torvalds is your God. That isn't a reason at all. But >>> thanks you put a smile on my face. >>> >>>> >>>> ~Jeff Kayser >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On >>>> Behalf Of Chris Laprise >>>> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:18 AM >>>> To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? >>>> >>>> This email originated from outside the organization >>>> >>>> On 8/10/20 12:05 PM, Toptin wrote: >>>>> Dear Qubes Users, >>>>> >>>>> I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes >>>>> documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain >>>>> decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as >>>>> main distribution. >>>>> >>>>> I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even >>>>> supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, toptin. >>>>> >>>> >>>> IIRC the core Linux developer for Qubes stated that Fedora was >>>> simply what he was used to when starting the project. >>>> >>>> Since then an issue has been open to replace Fedora in dom0 with >>>> something else. >>> >>> Yep, that's more like it. Thought something like that. >>> >>> Thanks both of you for your response. >>> >>> Regards, toptin. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net >>>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith >>>> ub.com%2Ftasket&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7 >>>> Cfab8ee9071e24793face08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7 >>>> C0%7C0%7C637326737762988903&sdata=rf5LyRZwJn4dfRrEEFcLntVnlgT2qQxy >>>> MEBgXjzfmKI%3D&reserved=0 >>>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwit >>>> ter.com%2Fttaskett&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.co >>>> m%7Cfab8ee9071e24793face08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518 >>>> d%7C0%7C0%7C637326737762988903&sdata=91Nba%2F%2FMjm47xk1d%2BnTb9C3 >>>> K99uzoIEzj%2B8TAzxIMSU%3D&reserved=0 >>>> PGP: BEE2 20C5 356E 764A 73EB 4AB3 1DC4 D106 F07F 1886 >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "qubes-users" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsgid%2Fqubes-users%2Ff27b8bcd-9f82-7aa0-799e-c5887ce4ca79%2540posteo.net&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7Cfab8ee9071e24793face08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C637326737762988903&sdata=hJxGmBtxsge7s6vFXKQ3Xt98igaCbAr6O%2BIrzLBTgUI%3D&reserved=0. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "qubes-users" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsgid%2Fqubes-users%2Ff2534e20-77c3-976d-100a-3e6f7065f04b%2540riseup.net&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7Cfab8ee9071e24793face08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C637326737762988903&sdata=PhM7n3XyB%2F4HzHSYzdb4ehqIfd%2B4LPZDIT6sIK5z%2F6U%3D&reserved=0. >>> >>> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/38f28d2d-0821-efff-5025-315fd75a6126%40riseup.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
On 8/10/20 12:30 PM, Toptin wrote: Jeff Kayser: Here is one reason to use Fedora. https://www.fossmint.com/which-linux-distribution-does-linus-torvalds-use/ Ah, see... Mr Torvalds is your God. That isn't a reason at all. But thanks you put a smile on my face. ~Jeff Kayser -Original Message- From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Chris Laprise Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:18 AM To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? This email originated from outside the organization On 8/10/20 12:05 PM, Toptin wrote: Dear Qubes Users, I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as main distribution. I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. Regards, toptin. I think the subtext here is that Fedora gets the changes first and it makes a good development environment (for Linux code anyway). But that's also why they don't curate or test or secure it like a regular production-ready OS. And also why they don't care about having a wide array of apps. I'd rather see a transition to something more stable like Debian which is also flexible enough to let you pull in newer packages from a tiered repository (stable, testing, unstable, and experimental). -- Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net https://github.com/tasket https://twitter.com/ttaskett PGP: BEE2 20C5 356E 764A 73EB 4AB3 1DC4 D106 F07F 1886 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/9488d0a3-7cce-4b79-646e-5774dd1bf188%40posteo.net.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
On 8/10/20 8:03 PM, Toptin wrote: Jeff Kayser: Hi, Toptin. Glad to put a smile on your face! Humor helps in difficult times, and COVID has certainly made things difficult. Torvalds isn't my God; Jesus is. However, in the area of Linux, few people are more of an expert than Linus Torvalds. If he prefers Fedora, that’s a pretty good endorsement. There is one other reason: containers are very important, especially for the cloud. When I started learning about containers, one concern I had was security. From a security standpoint, docker sucks. To address the container security issue, one promising direction is podman. It is a docker replacement, with a *much* better security architecture. The latest podman is delivered in Fedora. I figured that if I wanted to learn containers, I should use something secure, so I started with Fedora and podman. My main Linux VM is Fedora 32. I have also used Oracle Linux, Ubuntu, Raspbian, etc, so it's nothing personal with Fedora. But, the container security issue pushed me over the edge towards Fedora. That's a very good rationale, and makes sense. Although, I still have a little problem with distributions like Fedora. Fedora is Redhat and Redhat is IBM. So, in my world they can't be any trust in a company especially such giants like IBM. I got branded with SuSe when they got bought by Novel... I would have thought that the best distribution for a project like Qubes-OS would have been a fully independent community driven one. Like Debian (I'm not a big fan, but if we talk stability and security; Debian is a rock), or maybe something like Arch-Linux. Debian community sponsored? Isn't Canonical the biggest sponsor? They're not small. Has OmniosCE with the ZFS file system integrated along with a host of VERY cool features been considered as replacement? It should. I have worked with ZFS on OmniosCE for a while and I can really see how Qubes can greatly benefit from it. With the way that Qubes has been designed dropping in ZFS can open up a world of possibilities in what we can do with our VMs, be that TemplateVMs or AppVMs. Before I stumbled on to Qubes I had dreams of running my electronic life much like Qubes is designed today. I don't even mean the security it provides, just the plain freaking awesomeness of how quickly one can achieve certain things. Just something as simple as spinning up a new VM just to test something. ZFS can improve current functionality. OmniosCE is under active development I have been a part of that community for a while. I can recommend it. However I got your point. Thanks for clarifying. Regards, toptin. ~Jeff Kayser -Original Message- From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Toptin Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:30 AM To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? This email originated from outside the organization Jeff Kayser: Here is one reason to use Fedora. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. fossmint.com%2Fwhich-linux-distribution-does-linus-torvalds-use%2F& ;data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7Cfab8ee9071e24793fa ce08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C6373267377 62988903&sdata=dPvgOWqLbgomi%2BMnI1TqGMqdebCxwUBLQQmiFehVNy0%3D&am p;reserved=0 Ah, see... Mr Torvalds is your God. That isn't a reason at all. But thanks you put a smile on my face. ~Jeff Kayser -Original Message- From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Chris Laprise Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:18 AM To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? This email originated from outside the organization On 8/10/20 12:05 PM, Toptin wrote: Dear Qubes Users, I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as main distribution. I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. Regards, toptin. IIRC the core Linux developer for Qubes stated that Fedora was simply what he was used to when starting the project. Since then an issue has been open to replace Fedora in dom0 with something else. Yep, that's more like it. Thought something like that. Thanks both of you for your response. Regards, toptin. -- Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith ub.com%2Ftasket&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7 Cfab8ee9071e24793face08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7 C0%7C0%7C637326737762988903&sdata=rf5LyRZwJn4dfRrEEFcLntVnlgT2qQxy MEBgXjzfmKI%3D&reserved=0 https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwit ter.com%2Fttas
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Jeff Kayser: > Hi, Toptin. > > Glad to put a smile on your face! Humor helps in difficult times, and COVID > has certainly made things difficult. > > Torvalds isn't my God; Jesus is. However, in the area of Linux, few people > are more of an expert than Linus Torvalds. If he prefers Fedora, that’s a > pretty good endorsement. > > There is one other reason: containers are very important, especially for the > cloud. When I started learning about containers, one concern I had was > security. From a security standpoint, docker sucks. To address the > container security issue, one promising direction is podman. It is a docker > replacement, with a *much* better security architecture. The latest podman > is delivered in Fedora. I figured that if I wanted to learn containers, I > should use something secure, so I started with Fedora and podman. My main > Linux VM is Fedora 32. > > I have also used Oracle Linux, Ubuntu, Raspbian, etc, so it's nothing > personal with Fedora. But, the container security issue pushed me over the > edge towards Fedora. That's a very good rationale, and makes sense. Although, I still have a little problem with distributions like Fedora. Fedora is Redhat and Redhat is IBM. So, in my world they can't be any trust in a company especially such giants like IBM. I got branded with SuSe when they got bought by Novel... I would have thought that the best distribution for a project like Qubes-OS would have been a fully independent community driven one. Like Debian (I'm not a big fan, but if we talk stability and security; Debian is a rock), or maybe something like Arch-Linux. However I got your point. Thanks for clarifying. Regards, toptin. > > ~Jeff Kayser > > -Original Message- > From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On Behalf > Of Toptin > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:30 AM > To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? > > This email originated from outside the organization > > Jeff Kayser: >> Here is one reason to use Fedora. >> >> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. >> fossmint.com%2Fwhich-linux-distribution-does-linus-torvalds-use%2F& >> ;data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7Cfab8ee9071e24793fa >> ce08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C6373267377 >> 62988903&sdata=dPvgOWqLbgomi%2BMnI1TqGMqdebCxwUBLQQmiFehVNy0%3D&am >> p;reserved=0 > > Ah, see... Mr Torvalds is your God. That isn't a reason at all. But thanks > you put a smile on my face. > >> >> ~Jeff Kayser >> >> -Original Message- >> From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On >> Behalf Of Chris Laprise >> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:18 AM >> To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? >> >> This email originated from outside the organization >> >> On 8/10/20 12:05 PM, Toptin wrote: >>> Dear Qubes Users, >>> >>> I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes >>> documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain >>> decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as >>> main distribution. >>> >>> I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even >>> supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. >>> >>> Regards, toptin. >>> >> >> IIRC the core Linux developer for Qubes stated that Fedora was simply what >> he was used to when starting the project. >> >> Since then an issue has been open to replace Fedora in dom0 with something >> else. > > Yep, that's more like it. Thought something like that. > > Thanks both of you for your response. > > Regards, toptin. > > >> >> -- >> Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net >> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith >> ub.com%2Ftasket&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7 >> Cfab8ee9071e24793face08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7 >> C0%7C0%7C637326737762988903&sdata=rf5LyRZwJn4dfRrEEFcLntVnlgT2qQxy >> MEBgXjzfmKI%3D&reserved=0 >> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwit >> ter.com%2Fttaskett&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.co >> m%7Cfab8ee9071e24793face08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518 >> d%7C0%7C0%7C637326737762988903&sdata=91Nba%2F%2FMjm47xk1d%2BnTb9C3 >> K99uzoIEzj%2B8TAzxIMSU%3D&reserved=0 >> PGP: BEE2 20C5 3
RE: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Hi, Toptin. Glad to put a smile on your face! Humor helps in difficult times, and COVID has certainly made things difficult. Torvalds isn't my God; Jesus is. However, in the area of Linux, few people are more of an expert than Linus Torvalds. If he prefers Fedora, that’s a pretty good endorsement. There is one other reason: containers are very important, especially for the cloud. When I started learning about containers, one concern I had was security. From a security standpoint, docker sucks. To address the container security issue, one promising direction is podman. It is a docker replacement, with a *much* better security architecture. The latest podman is delivered in Fedora. I figured that if I wanted to learn containers, I should use something secure, so I started with Fedora and podman. My main Linux VM is Fedora 32. I have also used Oracle Linux, Ubuntu, Raspbian, etc, so it's nothing personal with Fedora. But, the container security issue pushed me over the edge towards Fedora. ~Jeff Kayser -Original Message- From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Toptin Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:30 AM To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? This email originated from outside the organization Jeff Kayser: > Here is one reason to use Fedora. > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. > fossmint.com%2Fwhich-linux-distribution-does-linus-torvalds-use%2F& > ;data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7Cfab8ee9071e24793fa > ce08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C6373267377 > 62988903&sdata=dPvgOWqLbgomi%2BMnI1TqGMqdebCxwUBLQQmiFehVNy0%3D&am > p;reserved=0 Ah, see... Mr Torvalds is your God. That isn't a reason at all. But thanks you put a smile on my face. > > ~Jeff Kayser > > -Original Message- > From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On > Behalf Of Chris Laprise > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:18 AM > To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? > > This email originated from outside the organization > > On 8/10/20 12:05 PM, Toptin wrote: >> Dear Qubes Users, >> >> I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes >> documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain >> decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as >> main distribution. >> >> I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even >> supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. >> >> Regards, toptin. >> > > IIRC the core Linux developer for Qubes stated that Fedora was simply what he > was used to when starting the project. > > Since then an issue has been open to replace Fedora in dom0 with something > else. Yep, that's more like it. Thought something like that. Thanks both of you for your response. Regards, toptin. > > -- > Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith > ub.com%2Ftasket&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7 > Cfab8ee9071e24793face08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7 > C0%7C0%7C637326737762988903&sdata=rf5LyRZwJn4dfRrEEFcLntVnlgT2qQxy > MEBgXjzfmKI%3D&reserved=0 > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwit > ter.com%2Fttaskett&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.co > m%7Cfab8ee9071e24793face08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518 > d%7C0%7C0%7C637326737762988903&sdata=91Nba%2F%2FMjm47xk1d%2BnTb9C3 > K99uzoIEzj%2B8TAzxIMSU%3D&reserved=0 > PGP: BEE2 20C5 356E 764A 73EB 4AB3 1DC4 D106 F07F 1886 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "qubes-users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsgid%2Fqubes-users%2Ff27b8bcd-9f82-7aa0-799e-c5887ce4ca79%2540posteo.net&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7Cfab8ee9071e24793face08d83d4a9056%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C637326737762988903&sdata=hJxGmBtxsge7s6vFXKQ3Xt98igaCbAr6O%2BIrzLBTgUI%3D&reserved=0. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsgid%2Fqubes-
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Jeff Kayser: > Here is one reason to use Fedora. > > https://www.fossmint.com/which-linux-distribution-does-linus-torvalds-use/ Ah, see... Mr Torvalds is your God. That isn't a reason at all. But thanks you put a smile on my face. > > ~Jeff Kayser > > -Original Message- > From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On Behalf > Of Chris Laprise > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:18 AM > To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? > > This email originated from outside the organization > > On 8/10/20 12:05 PM, Toptin wrote: >> Dear Qubes Users, >> >> I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes >> documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain >> decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as >> main distribution. >> >> I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even >> supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. >> >> Regards, toptin. >> > > IIRC the core Linux developer for Qubes stated that Fedora was simply what he > was used to when starting the project. > > Since then an issue has been open to replace Fedora in dom0 with something > else. Yep, that's more like it. Thought something like that. Thanks both of you for your response. Regards, toptin. > > -- > Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Ftasket&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7C03215ff832c64cbc59da08d83d48f934%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C637326730915551213&sdata=vjfF0L7eJup%2FcvgXggfDKLp7tUC%2Bb%2B5lpiuwNIO347g%3D&reserved=0 > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fttaskett&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7C03215ff832c64cbc59da08d83d48f934%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C637326730915551213&sdata=Mkg7peTFq6xHFIdwiAgnpM0b1psmUp%2FSCJBvHjRocQk%3D&reserved=0 > PGP: BEE2 20C5 356E 764A 73EB 4AB3 1DC4 D106 F07F 1886 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "qubes-users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsgid%2Fqubes-users%2Ff27b8bcd-9f82-7aa0-799e-c5887ce4ca79%2540posteo.net&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7C03215ff832c64cbc59da08d83d48f934%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C637326730915551213&sdata=WwRI2k%2BlFE3qk1AYKPdr68ctuDtwx2FFn0L1u6%2F1nkk%3D&reserved=0. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/f2534e20-77c3-976d-100a-3e6f7065f04b%40riseup.net.
RE: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Here is one reason to use Fedora. https://www.fossmint.com/which-linux-distribution-does-linus-torvalds-use/ ~Jeff Kayser -Original Message- From: qubes-users@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of Chris Laprise Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 9:18 AM To: qubes-users@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora? This email originated from outside the organization On 8/10/20 12:05 PM, Toptin wrote: > Dear Qubes Users, > > I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes > documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain > decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as > main distribution. > > I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even > supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. > > Regards, toptin. > IIRC the core Linux developer for Qubes stated that Fedora was simply what he was used to when starting the project. Since then an issue has been open to replace Fedora in dom0 with something else. -- Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Ftasket&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7C03215ff832c64cbc59da08d83d48f934%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C637326730915551213&sdata=vjfF0L7eJup%2FcvgXggfDKLp7tUC%2Bb%2B5lpiuwNIO347g%3D&reserved=0 https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fttaskett&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7C03215ff832c64cbc59da08d83d48f934%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C637326730915551213&sdata=Mkg7peTFq6xHFIdwiAgnpM0b1psmUp%2FSCJBvHjRocQk%3D&reserved=0 PGP: BEE2 20C5 356E 764A 73EB 4AB3 1DC4 D106 F07F 1886 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsgid%2Fqubes-users%2Ff27b8bcd-9f82-7aa0-799e-c5887ce4ca79%2540posteo.net&data=02%7C01%7Cjeff.kayser%40thehackettgroup.com%7C03215ff832c64cbc59da08d83d48f934%7C9a21f1283011452ca6829b884467518d%7C0%7C0%7C637326730915551213&sdata=WwRI2k%2BlFE3qk1AYKPdr68ctuDtwx2FFn0L1u6%2F1nkk%3D&reserved=0. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/BYAPR08MB55901528FA48188F368037E2E1440%40BYAPR08MB5590.namprd08.prod.outlook.com.
Re: [qubes-users] Why Fedora?
On 8/10/20 12:05 PM, Toptin wrote: Dear Qubes Users, I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as main distribution. I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. Regards, toptin. IIRC the core Linux developer for Qubes stated that Fedora was simply what he was used to when starting the project. Since then an issue has been open to replace Fedora in dom0 with something else. -- Chris Laprise, tas...@posteo.net https://github.com/tasket https://twitter.com/ttaskett PGP: BEE2 20C5 356E 764A 73EB 4AB3 1DC4 D106 F07F 1886 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/f27b8bcd-9f82-7aa0-799e-c5887ce4ca79%40posteo.net.
[qubes-users] Why Fedora?
Dear Qubes Users, I'm currently digging my way through the exceptional good Qubes documentation. Everything is nicely explained as to why a certain decision / implementation was made, except for the use of Fedora as main distribution. I wonder what's the rationale of that decision; Fedora 25 isn't even supported anymore. No offense or critic intended, just curiosity. Regards, toptin. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/e9f62ab3-a39d-e2c8-5901-6d921a784eea%40riseup.net.
