[RBW] Re: FS: 60cm Ritchey Road Logic Frame, fork and Chris King headset

[William!]

I'll admit I shed a tear when tearing the bike down this evening.

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 7:01:54 PM UTC-7, Don Genovese wrote:
>
> William:
>
> Those are great bikes. I have one the same color in a 58cm. I bought the 
> frame in 1996. It looks new and has all Campy components. However, you 
> would have to "pry it from my cold, dead hands" to get at it. I wish you 
> the best of luck with the sale. Again, a really, really nice bike! Worth 
> the asking price.
>
> Don Genovese
> Montara, CA 94037 U.S.A.
>
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 11:22:25 AM UTC-7, William! wrote:
>>
>> $499 for list members, $550 for the unwashed masses. More info here:
>> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/4515526421.html
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 60cm Ritchey Road Logic Frame, fork and Chris King headset

[Don Genovese]

William:

Those are great bikes. I have one the same color in a 58cm. I bought the 
frame in 1996. It looks new and has all Campy components. However, you 
would have to "pry it from my cold, dead hands" to get at it. I wish you 
the best of luck with the sale. Again, a really, really nice bike! Worth 
the asking price.

Don Genovese
Montara, CA 94037 U.S.A.

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 11:22:25 AM UTC-7, William! wrote:
>
> $499 for list members, $550 for the unwashed masses. More info here:
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/4515526421.html
>

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[RBW] Re: First ride on the Atlantis!

[Mathew Greiner]

Yep. Beautiful bike, and I've enjoyed all your posts on building it, from 
frame to crank to this.

For what it's worth, I just got a pair of Swift mini roll tops and they are 
fantastic. Well made, thoughtful, and the funky colors are just super. If 
not Swift, then Ruthworks. And if not Ruthworks, there is an odd video on 
Vimeo  of RivHQ testing out some smashing front 
Sackville low-riderish (-panniers-) wheel sacks, implying that they'll be 
out in a few months.



On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 2:37:27 PM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> I love them. They are particularly fantastic in the winter, if you happen 
> to live/ride where it snows. They roll nicely on pavement as there is 
> nearly a solid treat pattern down the centre, and they're great when run at 
> a lower pressure as well. I'm planning on getting a second pair for a 
> single speed monster cross bike I've got waiting for tires. 
>
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 11:28:15 AM UTC-5, Brencho wrote:
>>
>> Great looking build! How are those tires treating you for on and off road 
>> riding?? Really tempted to try them out soon. 
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 7:55:47 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>>
>>> Not yet. I was thinking about getting some Swift Industries panniers 
>>> with a matching rando box-bag. I noticed during the Oregon Outback that 
>>> they were testing some new lower profile front panniers that look pretty 
>>> interesting. I'll probably wait until those come out to decide.
>>>
>>> In the mean time, I have a carradice camper long-flap that I have yet to 
>>> mount. Together with the basket I can handle a s24o easily.
>>>
>>> I took the Atlantis on a proper ride yesterday. 40km of gravel and 
>>> single track. A few little jumps and nothing fell off or apart, and the 
>>> bike handled beautifully! I was amazed at being able to ride with a load in 
>>> the basket and no hands on the bars. It just naturally longs to ride 
>>> straight. It was an absolute pleasure. And the old Avid Tri-Aligns really 
>>> surprised me. It took no major effort to lock up the tires if I wanted. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:49:49 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:

 That's a terriffic Atlantis build.  Do you have front panniers for that 
 rack yet?

 On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:36:29 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> Finally finished this up at 1am last night so I could ride to work 
> today! It's still missing some Velo Orange fenders and King Iris cages, 
> but 
> they will be in later this week.
>
> For those keeping track, I managed to get the White Industries cranks 
> mounted with a 118mm BB and 44x30 chain rings. I've got about 2-3mm 
> clearance at the chain ring bolts, and more at the rings, so a smaller 
> inner ring would allow for an even shorter spindle.
>
> I'll share some more detailed photos once the fenders are on, and this 
> weekend I'm taking it on a 100km s24o to give it a proper shakedown. I 
> may 
> have only ridden it 5km so far, but I LOVE IT!
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/theworldisours/14204496230/in/photostream/
>


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[RBW] Re: Betty clone

[Mathew Greiner]

There are quite a few bikes made with hi ten these days. I think there's a 
general knowledge in some circles that steel bikes are desirable, but not 
an understanding of why, or where differences in steel are important. Most 
are the cheap single speeds (complete bikes for 250-450) for late to the 
party hipsters. Other entry and midlevel commuters from marks like Torker, 
Linus, others have frames of hi-ten or "Tri-moly." This is when some tubes 
in the main triangle are cro-moly, but the stays are hi-ten. 

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:04:16 PM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:
>
> http://newalbioncycles.com/starling/
>
> I honestly didn't know they made bikes out of high ten steel anymore. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Hip Replacement (not much Riv content)

[Don Genovese]

Bob:

Reads like you're well on the way to complete recovery. Good news. I had a 
complete hip replacement in 2007. It didn't take but a few months to get 
back on the bike but it took at least a year to feel 95%.  Occasionally I 
still get a some pain in that area but it comes and goes. I'm cycling 
almost every day. BTW, I was 68 years old in 2007 and two months prior to 
the accident I cycled across the USA without an accident. The accident 
occurred about three miles from home. FYI, the accident was the result of a 
sew-up tire not glued! That mistake cost me big-time. Anyway, as I said, 
I'm still on the bike. 

Best regards.

Don Genovese
Montara, CA U.S.A.

On Friday, May 2, 2014 9:42:32 PM UTC-7, Statrixbob wrote:
>
> As an owner of both a QB and Hunq (there's the riv content), I am 
> completely relieved that my left hip replacement went very well. Those of 
> you who saw me on my Bike Friday at RAGBRAI 2013 will remember I had a cane 
> with me and limped around when off the bike.
>
> I had anterior method surgery on Monday, went home on Wednesday, and today 
> I had my first out of hospital PT session. I am doing well enough that I 
> was allowed to get on a stationary bike just to see how I'd do. I did about 
> five minutes pedaling around 80 RPM with no pain. They had to make me get 
> off (though the soft saddle would have done that soon enough anyway). 
>
> Luckily my PT guy knows a bit about biking so he didn't argue about 
> setting the saddle high enough. I only had to ask him to move it up higher 
> twice. 
>
> I'm not sure how long it'll be before I'm cleared to ride a real bike but 
> I don't think it'll be all that long (and I'm going to be learning how to 
> walk for a while because while I've been able to ride for the last two 
> years walking has become more and more difficult).
>
> That's it. I'll be back on the road soon.
>
> Aloha All!
>
> Bob
>
> -- 
> Robert Harrison
> Honolulu, HI
> rfhar...@gmail.com 
> statrix.com
>  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar steerer too long?

[cyclotourist]

I mean this only with the utmost kindness and consideration, but that bike
looks too big for you.

Cheers,
David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal





On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 7:58 PM, Eric  wrote:

> Great looking bike!
>
> Makes me want one!
>
> Anyone know if Riv has a 54cm in stock!?
>>
>>
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[RBW] FS: Nitto, Kuyokuto, and a front derailleur

[Mike K.]

Evening, folks. I have a few things listed for sale on a craigslist post in 
Austin , but wanted to 
share it here as well. Some of the pieces are pretty generic, but I also 
have a 42cm Nitto Noddle bar in excellent condition, and a pair of Kuyokuto 
Top Run Road Pedals.

Noodle bar selling for $40 + shipping CONUS.
KKT Pedals: $30 + shipping CONUS.

Let me know if you're interested.

Best,
Mike in Austin

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[RBW] Re: Saddlebag strap failing after 2 rides

[Mike K.]

Thanks everyone. I worked a little bit on filing down the edges of the 
saddlebag loops. Then, because the loops are black and electrical tape is 
black, I wrapped electrical tape around the loops a few times. I'll try it 
out for a few weeks and report back. 

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 1:10:30 PM UTC-5, Mike K. wrote:
>
> Good afternoon, all.
>
> I recently bought a Carradice Nelson Longflap. I'm really excited about 
> it, but after my normal commute last week and a 10-mile ride this morning. 
> I'm noticing that one of the straps connected to the loop on the saddle is 
> starting to rip. I don't know if it's possible to round the edges of the 
> Brooks loops or put cotton bar tape on them or something like that, but if 
> you have any advice, I'd love to hear it. At this rate, I'll get maybe a 
> dozen rides out of this strap before it snaps. Photo attached.
>
> Thanks!
> Mike in Austin
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Chain Saw Bar Oil

[Tim Gavin]

I've been using Bar & Chain oil for lube the last couple months.  I'm also
experiencing quieter chains and shifts, but also waiting for longer term
results.

If nothing else, it's making me pay more attention to chain cleanliness and
lubrication, so that's a benefit.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 5:44 PM, 'doc' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I know this was mentioned in a previous thread, but this last weekend
> while cleaning the bike I opted to skip the rather pricey liquid teflon
> spray I've been using the last 7 years.  Instead, I grabbed the gallon of
> Ace chainsaw bar oil off the next shelf, putting a large dab on a rag, and
> wiping down the chain to leave just a sheen.  I'm impressed.  The drive
> train is definitely quieter and I sense the shifts are smoother.  I'm eager
> to see how it works out over time.
>
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[RBW] Re: FS: Frost River Caribou Trail Bike Bag

[Joe Bernard]

Have you tried the 'lean the bike way over to get your leg over' trick? If 
you can clear the saddle, you should be able to clear the bag behind it. 
I'm kinda creaky, too, and it took me a while to get the hang of it, but 
it's fine now. I definitely didn't think it would be fine after my first 
try.

Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 12:36:24 PM UTC-7, Don Genovese wrote:

> Practically new, beautifully constructed bag. I tried it one time and it 
> doesn't suite me. My leg isn't flexible enough to mount/dismount with a 
> saddle bag.
> Google Frost River for picture and specifications.
>
> Price = $100 plus actual shipping to purchaser's location via USPS. Paypal 
> only. 
>
> Don Genovese
> Montara, CA 94037
>
>

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[RBW] Nitto bar + stem: Technomic Deluxe 26.0 (10cm) + Nitto Neat Mod 185 (44cm)

[Eric]

Here's a little bar & stem package.

Nitto Technomic Deluxe 26.0 clamp (10cm in length). Few marks on quill but 
very nice othewise.

Nitto Neat Mod 185. 26.0 clamp (44cm wide). Some marks & old bar tape but 
otherwise okay.

Both = $70 shipped in CONUS (PayPal okay as long as fees are covered)

http://postimg.org/image/edv983lex/ 

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar steerer too long?

[Eric]

Great looking bike!

Makes me want one!

Anyone know if Riv has a 54cm in stock!?
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar steerer too long?

[Bill Lindsay]

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 5:49:30 PM UTC-7, Ginz wrote:
>
> Hi Folks
>
> Here's a 48cm Hunqapillar cleaned up and ready for another camping trip.
>
> Sorry for the lousy photo. I'm not very tall and the Bullmoose bars are 
> VERY high even for my good taste in high bars -- even with the stem slammed.
>
> I am thinking of cutting the steerer down by 10 or 15mm.  That would leave 
> me with 15 or 10mm of spacer which should be plenty for doo-dads and brake 
> hangers.  Is there any chance that the stem quill would be getting to close 
> to the butted section?  
>

Yes, there's a chance.  Measure before you cut.  The easiest thing would be 
to check how far a Tallux fits in there and compare on your Bosco quill. 
 If you dont have a long quill stem laying around, you'll have to figure 
out something else.
 

> Would I regret cutting it later?  
>

It won't help your resale value, but if you like the fit better you are 
less likely to want to sell it
 

> I don't think I would but perhaps I am not thinking of something.
>
> Thanks
> Ginz
>
>
> 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar steerer too long?

[Ginz]

At the moment, I have 25mm of spacer plus the tange headset. 

Thanks for the replies. 

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[RBW] FS: New 650b wheelset with Compass Loup Loup Pass tires

[Scot Brooks]

Price drop. Now $435

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar steerer too long?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Yes - on a threaded steerer use a guide.  You don't want to freehand cut 
across threads if you can avoid it.   And a good, sharp saw blade and 
plenty of oil.  

You do want to chase the threads afterwards, and RJM's suggestion is a nice 
hack. Not precisely a "show finish" but it will take care of much of the 
thread grunge. 

I would call RBW regarding butting specs on the steerer. You can't uncut it 
later. Well, not too easily...

- J

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[RBW] FS: Frost River Caribou Trail Bike Bag

[Don Genovese]

Practically new, beautifully constructed bag. I tried it one time and it 
doesn't suite me. My leg isn't flexible enough to mount/dismount with a 
saddle bag.
Google Frost River for picture and specifications.

Price = $100 plus actual shipping to purchaser's location via USPS. Paypal 
only. 

Don Genovese
Montara, CA 94037

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar steerer too long?

[RJM]

When I built up my Roadeo I had to cut the threaded part of the steer tube 
down to fit the Chris King headset and everything worked out fine. I used a 
clamp that I had that allows me to get a hacksaw blade perpendicular to the 
tube and remain steady and I just cut away. First, make sure you have a nut 
all the way down the threads, so when you are done cutting you unscrew the 
nut and it 'cleans' the threads that you sort of mangled by the cutting. It 
looks like you should be able to get at least a cm cut and take out one of 
your spacers. If you have a closer, more detailed shot of the top of your 
head tube it would help see how much you can get away with. 

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 7:49:30 PM UTC-5, Ginz wrote:
>
> Hi Folks
>
> Here's a 48cm Hunqapillar cleaned up and ready for another camping trip.
>
> Sorry for the lousy photo. I'm not very tall and the Bullmoose bars are 
> VERY high even for my good taste in high bars -- even with the stem slammed.
>
> I am thinking of cutting the steerer down by 10 or 15mm.  That would leave 
> me with 15 or 10mm of spacer which should be plenty for doo-dads and brake 
> hangers.  Is there any chance that the stem quill would be getting to close 
> to the butted section?  Would I regret cutting it later?  I don't think I 
> would but perhaps I am not thinking of something.
>
> Thanks
> Ginz
>
>
> 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] How do I straighten my Brooks saddle nose?

[Ken Yokanovich]

I don't think that this is a "Michael" problem.  I have several Brooks 
saddles, the two black ones have worn unevenly.  Interestingly, one sags 
more on the left and the other more on the right.  Brown saddles from 
approximately same era (and more saddle time) have not worn the same.  I 
have unscientifically attributed it to the dye and will not be purchasing 
any more black saddles.  I have aspirations and my eye on a Brooks Select 
in hopes that it will wear longer.

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:44:07 AM UTC-5, LAP57 wrote:
>
> Could this be you?  If several saddles have done the exact same thing 
> could it be that you are not symmetrical and the saddle is just breaking 
> into fit the way you are?  I know that I do not set square on the bike and 
> I actually need to point the nose of the saddle slightly to the left of 
> center to be comfortable.  I have not had the same issue you are seeing and 
> I know that the quality of these saddles is not what is was 10 years ago.  
> But they are leather and they do break in to fit the rider.  If the rails 
> are straight then maybe it is you.  Have someone ride behind you and see if 
> they can see how you sit, if your back is straight and hips parallel.  If 
> not it is no big deal other then helping to explain how your bike need to 
> be adjusted to fit you. 
>
> Larry Powers 
>  
> Get a bicycle.  You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain
>
>
> --
> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 11:15:56 -0700
> From: john1...@gmail.com 
> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: [RBW] How do I straighten my Brooks saddle nose?
>
> It has about a year of riding on it. Never got wet.
> Needs Proofhide?
> Adjustment bolt tightening?
>
> When I bought it, it had a slight curve to the nose, and I didn't want to 
> make a fuss and return it, but now I think it is getting worse and rubbing 
> my right thigh. Otherwise this has been a great saddle.
>
> What is it with Brooks? I think I have bought 5 in the last few years, and 
> I think three have had either a curved nose, or the rivets aren't 
> symmetrical, or the adjustment bolt is crooked.
>
>
>
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[RBW] Hunqapillar steerer too long?

[Ginz]

Hi Folks

Here's a 48cm Hunqapillar cleaned up and ready for another camping trip.

Sorry for the lousy photo. I'm not very tall and the Bullmoose bars are 
VERY high even for my good taste in high bars -- even with the stem slammed.

I am thinking of cutting the steerer down by 10 or 15mm.  That would leave 
me with 15 or 10mm of spacer which should be plenty for doo-dads and brake 
hangers.  Is there any chance that the stem quill would be getting to close 
to the butted section?  Would I regret cutting it later?  I don't think I 
would but perhaps I am not thinking of something.

Thanks
Ginz



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Re: [RBW] Betty clone

[Bruce Herbitter]

"gas pipe" is the term I heard on this list to describe it.   Trek was
making entry level comfort bikes with it up to about 2000.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Peter Morgano 
wrote:

> http://newalbioncycles.com/starling/
>
> I honestly didn't know they made bikes out of high ten steel anymore.
>
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Re: [RBW] Betty clone

[David Hays]

This is high ten as well:
http://newalbioncycles.com/homebrew-road-bike/


On Jun 11, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Peter Morgano  wrote:

> http://newalbioncycles.com/starling/
> 
> I honestly didn't know they made bikes out of high ten steel anymore.
> 
> 
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[RBW] Betty clone

[Peter Morgano]

http://newalbioncycles.com/starling/

I honestly didn't know they made bikes out of high ten steel anymore.

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[RBW] Chain Saw Bar Oil

['doc' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I know this was mentioned in a previous thread, but this last weekend while 
cleaning the bike I opted to skip the rather pricey liquid teflon spray 
I've been using the last 7 years.  Instead, I grabbed the gallon of Ace 
chainsaw bar oil off the next shelf, putting a large dab on a rag, and 
wiping down the chain to leave just a sheen.  I'm impressed.  The drive 
train is definitely quieter and I sense the shifts are smoother.  I'm eager 
to see how it works out over time.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Optimal tire pressure questions...

[Ron Mc]

Grant, perfect plan.  Friday I left my phone at my desk, so I hauled my 
bike into town Saturday morning to ride a trail.  When I got to the end of 
it, there was a guy heading past the construction, around the Army base to 
the lower creek trail - not knowing how to get there, I asked to tag along. 
 My original plan was to double the upper trail to get 26 miles, but I 
ended up riding 40, mostly paved, but quite a bit of gravel.  I have been 
dialing my tire pressures down to the find just the right point to protect 
the rims and still corner, and in this case, to roll over gravel.  It was a 
cozy ride - he did it on a carbon road bike with 25mm gatorskins.  

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 5:10:35 PM UTC-5, grant wrote:
>
> Protect the rim and keep the tire reasonably centered on it during 
> cornering (don't go too soft) and protect your bike and body (don't go too 
> hard). 
>
> The rest is experimental, subjective, personal preference. 
>
> This is not my attempt to wrap this topic up, just the only thing I can 
> add. We're not sequencing the human genome, but x amount of analyzing can 
> still fun and stimulating, as long as it doesn't lead to sleepless nights & 
> hand-wringing.
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 2:59:18 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> One more anecdote that supports this. I've found that, while tires with 
>> lighter casings require more pressure for the same -- what is the word, for 
>> the same amount of cushion and rim protection, they also seem to perform 
>> better at a wider range of pressures, at least in this, that they don't 
>> require such precise pressure for that mean between sagging in curves, or 
>> bouncing on straights, and harshness. I noticed this when I briefly tried 
>> an old pair of Avocet slicks on the '03. Sluggish when comfortable, harsh 
>> when you got pressure high enough for faster rolling. By comparison with 
>> these, the Kojaks are, or feel, both faster and smoother. The Parigi 
>> Roubaix even more so than the Kojaks (tho' alas, those are for 700C wheels, 
>> of course).
>>
>> FWIW, since many have suggested 559X32 Paselas, compared to the Kojaks, 
>> the Paselas, too, had only a small range between sagging and harshness (and 
>> they flatted very easily). These were the non-Tourguards that are not made 
>> any more, apparently. I rode the 559X32 Paselas for a number of years and 
>> quite a few thousand miles.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Philip Williamson > > wrote:
>>
>>> Jan, thank you for clarifying this. Your more recent published opinions 
>>> on the subject seem to imply that "pressure doesn't really matter," if you 
>>> have good tires.  
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis
>>
>> *
>>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to 
>> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from 
>> it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
>> * "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to 
>> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind 
>> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into 
>> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your 
>> daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is 
>> all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was 
>> any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, 
>> because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where 
>> in your time and your body can they be?*
>> *  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried. 
>> "Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where 
>> Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of 
>> you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood  *
>>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Optimal tire pressure questions...

[Patrick Moore]

For the record, I, Patrick, use no tire gauge or micrometer; my only rule
of thumb is my thumb (and forefinger). Certain tires ride best when, after
inflation, they feel "thus" when you pinch them.

Scientific enough for me.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:10 PM, grant  wrote:

> Protect the rim and keep the tire reasonably centered on it during
> cornering (don't go too soft) and protect your bike and body (don't go too
> hard).
>
> The rest is experimental, subjective, personal preference.
>
> This is not my attempt to wrap this topic up, just the only thing I can
> add. We're not sequencing the human genome, but x amount of analyzing can
> still fun and stimulating, as long as it doesn't lead to sleepless nights &
> hand-wringing.
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 2:59:18 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> One more anecdote that supports this. I've found that, while tires with
>> lighter casings require more pressure for the same -- what is the word, for
>> the same amount of cushion and rim protection, they also seem to perform
>> better at a wider range of pressures, at least in this, that they don't
>> require such precise pressure for that mean between sagging in curves, or
>> bouncing on straights, and harshness. I noticed this when I briefly tried
>> an old pair of Avocet slicks on the '03. Sluggish when comfortable, harsh
>> when you got pressure high enough for faster rolling. By comparison with
>> these, the Kojaks are, or feel, both faster and smoother. The Parigi
>> Roubaix even more so than the Kojaks (tho' alas, those are for 700C wheels,
>> of course).
>>
>> FWIW, since many have suggested 559X32 Paselas, compared to the Kojaks,
>> the Paselas, too, had only a small range between sagging and harshness (and
>> they flatted very easily). These were the non-Tourguards that are not made
>> any more, apparently. I rode the 559X32 Paselas for a number of years and
>> quite a few thousand miles.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Philip Williamson > > wrote:
>>
>>> Jan, thank you for clarifying this. Your more recent published opinions
>>> on the subject seem to imply that "pressure doesn't really matter," if you
>>> have good tires.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis
>>
>> *
>>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to
>> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from
>> it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
>> * "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
>> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
>> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
>> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
>> daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
>> all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
>> any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
>> because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
>> in your time and your body can they be?*
>> *  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
>> "Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
>> Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
>> you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood  *
>>
>  --
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-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis

*
  * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall

Re: [RBW] Re: Optimal tire pressure questions...

[grant]

Protect the rim and keep the tire reasonably centered on it during 
cornering (don't go too soft) and protect your bike and body (don't go too 
hard). 

The rest is experimental, subjective, personal preference. 

This is not my attempt to wrap this topic up, just the only thing I can 
add. We're not sequencing the human genome, but x amount of analyzing can 
still fun and stimulating, as long as it doesn't lead to sleepless nights & 
hand-wringing.




On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 2:59:18 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> One more anecdote that supports this. I've found that, while tires with 
> lighter casings require more pressure for the same -- what is the word, for 
> the same amount of cushion and rim protection, they also seem to perform 
> better at a wider range of pressures, at least in this, that they don't 
> require such precise pressure for that mean between sagging in curves, or 
> bouncing on straights, and harshness. I noticed this when I briefly tried 
> an old pair of Avocet slicks on the '03. Sluggish when comfortable, harsh 
> when you got pressure high enough for faster rolling. By comparison with 
> these, the Kojaks are, or feel, both faster and smoother. The Parigi 
> Roubaix even more so than the Kojaks (tho' alas, those are for 700C wheels, 
> of course).
>
> FWIW, since many have suggested 559X32 Paselas, compared to the Kojaks, 
> the Paselas, too, had only a small range between sagging and harshness (and 
> they flatted very easily). These were the non-Tourguards that are not made 
> any more, apparently. I rode the 559X32 Paselas for a number of years and 
> quite a few thousand miles.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Philip Williamson  > wrote:
>
>> Jan, thank you for clarifying this. Your more recent published opinions 
>> on the subject seem to imply that "pressure doesn't really matter," if you 
>> have good tires.  
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis
>
> *
>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to 
> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from 
> it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
> * "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to 
> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind 
> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into 
> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your 
> daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is 
> all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was 
> any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, 
> because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where 
> in your time and your body can they be?*
> *  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried. 
> "Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where 
> Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of 
> you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood  *
>  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Optimal tire pressure questions...

[Patrick Moore]

One more anecdote that supports this. I've found that, while tires with
lighter casings require more pressure for the same -- what is the word, for
the same amount of cushion and rim protection, they also seem to perform
better at a wider range of pressures, at least in this, that they don't
require such precise pressure for that mean between sagging in curves, or
bouncing on straights, and harshness. I noticed this when I briefly tried
an old pair of Avocet slicks on the '03. Sluggish when comfortable, harsh
when you got pressure high enough for faster rolling. By comparison with
these, the Kojaks are, or feel, both faster and smoother. The Parigi
Roubaix even more so than the Kojaks (tho' alas, those are for 700C wheels,
of course).

FWIW, since many have suggested 559X32 Paselas, compared to the Kojaks, the
Paselas, too, had only a small range between sagging and harshness (and
they flatted very easily). These were the non-Tourguards that are not made
any more, apparently. I rode the 559X32 Paselas for a number of years and
quite a few thousand miles.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jan, thank you for clarifying this. Your more recent published opinions on
> the subject seem to imply that "pressure doesn't really matter," if you
> have good tires.
>


-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis

*
  * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
in your time and your body can they be?*
*  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
"Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood  *

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[RBW] Re: Old Steel

['Jack' via RBW Owners Bunch]

>
> I'm also a big fan of the mid-80s Treks. I have an '83 720 and it has been 
>>> getting a lot of miles recently. It still has the 27" wheels but I'm 
>>> thinking about going to 700C to get more fender room. Like Michael, I also 
>>> have a Ram and I find both bikes have similar handling. 
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois tires, size discrepancy

[Ron Mc]

my Strada Biancas mesure 33mm on Synergy

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 4:50:54 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> My Parigi Roubaix measure 30 mm on older Open Pros.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Michael Hechmer  > wrote:
>
>> This matches my experience.  I bought the G.B. Cerf and they "grew" from 
>> 27 to 29 mm after about 1 or 200 miles.  The 27 fit my old racing bike, the 
>> 29 didn't!  I love them on my Ram though.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 8:52:09 PM UTC-4, joe b. wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Anne,
>>>
>>> Also keep in mind that tires (it SEEMS like especially light, supple 
>>> ones) grow in width over the first couple hundred miles. Don't be surprised 
>>> if the GBs relax out to 32 or close after some riding.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> joe broach
>>> portland, or
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 5:31 PM, Anne Paulson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It's 6% in diameter, but that makes 12% difference in volume, which is 
 what we care about.


 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Deacon Patrick  
 wrote:

> That's about a 6% discrepancy, which certainly seems reasonable given 
> different rim widths and tire stretch.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:52:31 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:
>>
>> If you order some of Jan Heine's tires, be aware of a size 
>> discrepancy.
>>
>> I just got a couple of his Grand Bois tires, which are sold as 700 x 
>> 32mm. I knew they were made by Panaracer, and I have used the Panaracer 
>> Pasela 32mm and the Jack Brown 33mm tires, so I figured I knew what to 
>> expect. When the tires arrived, they looked narrower than I expected. 
>> Then, 
>> when I opened them up, they were labelled 700 x 30. Then, when I mounted 
>> them on my Mavic Open Pro rims, they measured 30mm wide.
>>
>> When I asked Jan, he explained that he has a different system of 
>> measurement, and according to his measurement system (mounting them on 
>> some 
>> rim or other) they measure 32mm.
>>
>> So, expect the Grand Bois tires to be narrower than other tires sold 
>> with the same width.
>>
>> -- 
>> -- Anne "Standards are good, everyone should have one" Paulson
>>
>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>>
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 -- 
 -- Anne Paulson


 It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 

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>>>
>>>  -- 
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>> .
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis
>
> *
>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to 
> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from 
> it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
> * "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to 
> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind 
> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into 
> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your 
> daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is 
> all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was 
> any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, 
> because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where 
> in your time and your body can they b

[RBW] Re: Optimal tire pressure questions...

[Philip Williamson]

Jan, thank you for clarifying this. Your more recent published opinions on 
the subject seem to imply that "pressure doesn't really matter," if you 
have good tires.  
I found working with the Berto guidelines to really help me get a mental 
handle on useful pressures, but I'm not a slave to the numbers. I have been 
buying better tires, though! 
 
Disclaimer - I (with your permission) published an "extended" Berto chart 
,
 
and I had some involvement with the Edison Gauss tire pressure app 
.
 
I am also the guy who stopped maintaining the Google Doc tire pressure 
spreadsheet ("I ain't your maid, people!"). 

Philip
www.biketinker.com


On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 8:57:22 AM UTC-7, Jan Heine wrote:
>
> I totally agree with you. You also have to know that Berto's curve is an 
> average of a lot of tires he tested. I have his raw data, and different 
> tires deflect very differently. A supple tire will give you 20% tire drop 
> for the same pressure where an ultra-stiff one gives you 5% or less. (In 
> fact, one "critic" on rec.bicycles.tech complained that there was no way to 
> get 15% tire drop, even with zero air pressure. I suspect he did something 
> else wrong, but part of the problem was that he was using Specialized 
> Armadillo tires!)
>
> In the end, this brings up a much bigger question: Do we work from first 
> principles forward, or do we work backward from our "subjective" experience 
> of riding on the road? At Bicycle Quarterly, we start with the ride, and 
> then devise tests to confirm that our "subjective" impressions hold up 
> under rigorous scientific scrutiny. Bicycles are so complex that this seems 
> to be the best approach. All attempts to work from first principles forward 
> have not yielded useful results, as far as applicability to real-world 
> conditions is concerned.
>
> So in the case of 15% tire drop, we tested tires at various pressures and 
> looked at where the drop-off in performance occurred. We found that this 
> roughly correlates to Berto's 15% tire drop. So we recommend Berto's chart 
> as a starting point for experimentation. However, it's only a starting 
> point... For example, I ride my wider tires at higher pressures than 
> Berto's chart would indicate, if you extrapolate it. With the extremely 
> supple casings, the tires otherwise tend to collapse under hard cornering...
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> www.bikequarterly.com
>
> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:27:06 PM UTC-7, ted wrote:
>>
>> Which is an "appeal to authority" and a "seems to work ok where we have 
>> used it". Which is fine so far as it goes, but its not much to go by for 
>> guessing how applicable either extrapolations of Berto's curves or the 15% 
>> rule of thumb are outside the domain where we have experience using them.
>>
>> I hope I don't come across as to critical. I have pulled the equation for 
>> the regression fit of Berto's curves from the spreadsheet and like using 
>> it. But I suspect I would do as well (practically speaking) if I just let 
>> air out of the tires till they squished a good bit when I got on the bike, 
>> and then just rode it and adjusted for feel.
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 8:57:33 PM UTC-7, Jan Heine wrote:
>>>
>>> Originally, the 15% drop came from the tire companies to whom Frank 
>>> Berto talked. So Frank then just tried to figure out how to get that value.
>>>
>>> Our initial tire testing indicated that somewhere around 15% tire drop 
>>> was the point where performance and comfort were optimized. Since then, we 
>>> found that at least for supple tires, even lower pressures don't seem to 
>>> slow the bike down, so it matters even less.
>>>
>>> However, even today, the 15% tire drop values from the chart are a good 
>>> starting point for experimenting with tire pressure...
>>>
>>> Jan Heine
>>> Editor
>>> Bicycle Quarterly
>>> www.bikequarterly.com
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:19:49 PM UTC-7, ted wrote:

 But I think the real question is whats so special about 15% drop. I 
 can't recall seeing any supporting argument / evidence for it being 
 optimal.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois tires, size discrepancy

[Patrick Moore]

My Parigi Roubaix measure 30 mm on older Open Pros.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> This matches my experience.  I bought the G.B. Cerf and they "grew" from
> 27 to 29 mm after about 1 or 200 miles.  The 27 fit my old racing bike, the
> 29 didn't!  I love them on my Ram though.
>
> Michael
>
> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 8:52:09 PM UTC-4, joe b. wrote:
>>
>> Hi Anne,
>>
>> Also keep in mind that tires (it SEEMS like especially light, supple
>> ones) grow in width over the first couple hundred miles. Don't be surprised
>> if the GBs relax out to 32 or close after some riding.
>>
>> Best,
>> joe broach
>> portland, or
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 5:31 PM, Anne Paulson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's 6% in diameter, but that makes 12% difference in volume, which is
>>> what we care about.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Deacon Patrick 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 That's about a 6% discrepancy, which certainly seems reasonable given
 different rim widths and tire stretch.

 With abandon,
 Patrick


 On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:52:31 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> If you order some of Jan Heine's tires, be aware of a size discrepancy.
>
> I just got a couple of his Grand Bois tires, which are sold as 700 x
> 32mm. I knew they were made by Panaracer, and I have used the Panaracer
> Pasela 32mm and the Jack Brown 33mm tires, so I figured I knew what to
> expect. When the tires arrived, they looked narrower than I expected. 
> Then,
> when I opened them up, they were labelled 700 x 30. Then, when I mounted
> them on my Mavic Open Pro rims, they measured 30mm wide.
>
> When I asked Jan, he explained that he has a different system of
> measurement, and according to his measurement system (mounting them on 
> some
> rim or other) they measure 32mm.
>
> So, expect the Grand Bois tires to be narrower than other tires sold
> with the same width.
>
> --
> -- Anne "Standards are good, everyone should have one" Paulson
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> -- Anne Paulson
>>>
>>>
>>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>
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-- 
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By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
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Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis

*
  * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
in your time and your body can they be?*
*  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
"Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood  *

-- 
You received

Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois tires, size discrepancy

[Ron Mc]

Very good point, Deac - I've noticed with Challenge and Vittoria open 
tubulars, which are rated for wide pressures, they stretch like crazy with 
a few days a high pressure.  

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 8:01:44 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Try inflating them to max pressure for a night or a few days and see where 
> there are.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 6:31:44 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:
>>
>> It's 6% in diameter, but that makes 12% difference in volume, which is 
>> what we care about.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
>>
>>> That's about a 6% discrepancy, which certainly seems reasonable given 
>>> different rim widths and tire stretch.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:52:31 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:

 If you order some of Jan Heine's tires, be aware of a size discrepancy.

 I just got a couple of his Grand Bois tires, which are sold as 700 x 
 32mm. I knew they were made by Panaracer, and I have used the Panaracer 
 Pasela 32mm and the Jack Brown 33mm tires, so I figured I knew what to 
 expect. When the tires arrived, they looked narrower than I expected. 
 Then, 
 when I opened them up, they were labelled 700 x 30. Then, when I mounted 
 them on my Mavic Open Pro rims, they measured 30mm wide.

 When I asked Jan, he explained that he has a different system of 
 measurement, and according to his measurement system (mounting them on 
 some 
 rim or other) they measure 32mm.

 So, expect the Grand Bois tires to be narrower than other tires sold 
 with the same width.

 -- 
 -- Anne "Standards are good, everyone should have one" Paulson

 It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 

>>>  -- 
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> -- Anne Paulson
>>
>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois tires, size discrepancy

[Michael Hechmer]

This matches my experience.  I bought the G.B. Cerf and they "grew" from 27 
to 29 mm after about 1 or 200 miles.  The 27 fit my old racing bike, the 29 
didn't!  I love them on my Ram though.

Michael

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 8:52:09 PM UTC-4, joe b. wrote:
>
> Hi Anne,
>
> Also keep in mind that tires (it SEEMS like especially light, supple ones) 
> grow in width over the first couple hundred miles. Don't be surprised if 
> the GBs relax out to 32 or close after some riding.
>
> Best,
> joe broach
> portland, or
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 5:31 PM, Anne Paulson  > wrote:
>
>> It's 6% in diameter, but that makes 12% difference in volume, which is 
>> what we care about.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Deacon Patrick > > wrote:
>>
>>> That's about a 6% discrepancy, which certainly seems reasonable given 
>>> different rim widths and tire stretch.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:52:31 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:

 If you order some of Jan Heine's tires, be aware of a size discrepancy.

 I just got a couple of his Grand Bois tires, which are sold as 700 x 
 32mm. I knew they were made by Panaracer, and I have used the Panaracer 
 Pasela 32mm and the Jack Brown 33mm tires, so I figured I knew what to 
 expect. When the tires arrived, they looked narrower than I expected. 
 Then, 
 when I opened them up, they were labelled 700 x 30. Then, when I mounted 
 them on my Mavic Open Pro rims, they measured 30mm wide.

 When I asked Jan, he explained that he has a different system of 
 measurement, and according to his measurement system (mounting them on 
 some 
 rim or other) they measure 32mm.

 So, expect the Grand Bois tires to be narrower than other tires sold 
 with the same width.

 -- 
 -- Anne "Standards are good, everyone should have one" Paulson

 It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 

>>>  -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> -- Anne Paulson
>>
>>
>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Old Steel

[Michael Hechmer]

Yes about the 32 limit.  I fought that while using this as a commuter.  I 
even filed off some material on the bottom of the crown to keep the fender 
from rubbing.  But with 650B & 38 mm tires I have room to spare.  It did 
require moving the canti studs, but when adding S&S couplers and paint, 
that was free.

I think the older standard gauge tubing was just more responsive.  But I do 
love both my ram & my saluki.

Michael

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:31:19 AM UTC-4, Will wrote:
>
> There's a lot to like. The frame geometry is excellent. The only bother is 
> they don't accommodate tires more than about 32mm with fenders. 
> Our family has a 610, 613 and 620. All from early '80s. There's an 830 
> Antelope frame waiting for love. 
>
> I like the 613 best. It has side tacked seat stays and the brake bridges 
> are set higher, so you can get 32's on with fenders. It's a marvelous ride. 
> There's something about 700 x32 that resonates. Maybe 650x42 is better. 
> Don't know. 
>
> The early 80's Treks remind me of 70's Raleigh Competitions and Raleigh 
> Internationals. Really compliant, lively, frames. 
>
> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 5:41:40 PM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> I know there was a recent post about '60s  & '70s bikes, and I don't want 
>> to belabor some fine points, but
>>
>> I took my '84 Trek 620 ( built from Reynolds 531C) out today for the 
>> first time since bringing it back from Ca. last Nov.  What a joy!  I used 
>> this as a commuter  for many years but in retirement it has reemerged as a 
>> 650B travel & go fast bike, with pari-moto tires.  Great road manners, a 
>>  beautiful blend of stability and agility,  comfort and speed. Pretty much 
>> the same geo as my Ram. 
>>
>> Early on in this ride I encountered a small dog at the bottom of a hill, 
>> but easily accelerated away from it.  Later I needed to jump into a left 
>> hand lane to get around an interstate entrance.  Easy, just get on the 
>> wheel of a pickup and go.
>>
>> Sweet,
>> Michael
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] My 71 cm AHH

[davidfrench]

Hi Jim sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm extremely interested in feedback from you 
and other tall riders, I'm just not sure a wheel size available for more than 
10 years and now having new lighter tires available (thus online) make it 
esoteric. You can use 29" tubes in a 36" wheel by the way. Of course if you 
blow a tire in the wild, there's zero chance another rider will hand you a 36er 
tire, but I always take one spare in my bag on long touring rides. 
To really understand why a 700c or 29er bike even custom made (I had several 
made) is by definition unstable you will have to be able, like I did for years, 
to compare both bikes on the same path. Believe me, after riding my DirtySixer 
you will understand that you are just "making it work" on other 700c bikes as 
they are adaptations from regular bikes to our longer body dimension. They are 
not thought from the beginning for taller people than the belly curve of 
riders. 
Wheel size, geometry (wheel base etc.) and oversized tubing (even the handlebar 
diameter, at the grip) makes the DirtySixer a unique, safe and fun ride. Not 
only on trails (it's not a 100% mountain bike but rather 50/50 road/dirt) but 
over potholes, curbs, train tracks, sand or wet leaves thanks to bigger contact 
patch. 
Ps: stability problems on 700c bikes comes from wheel size, rims and tires 
width, head tube angle+ trail, rider position relative to the bike (or mass 
distribution) wheelbase, chain stays length, axle size...
I hope to be able to go ride the DirtySixer with you some day in our fantastic 
playground that is the Marin headlands. 
:-)


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[RBW] Re: WTB: Anyone have some Jack browns sitting around?

[Ron Mc]

pm sent

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 3:14:42 PM UTC-5, William! wrote:
>
> Greens preferred.
>
> Got a new build coming up and given all the Barlow Pass activity of late, 
> I figured I would check here before buying new ones =).
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Anyone have some Jack browns sitting around?

[Ron Mc]

Hi William, I have some greens - my daughter put some panic scrub marks on 
them with her V-brakes.  
She didn't like them (is riding Parigis now and Loves them)
I had one folded up for awhile that I carried for an unused-spare.  
Not many miles and light weight on them.  
I'll pack them up and ship them out for $58.  
Paypal to my g-mail addy works.  
regards, bro
Ron Mc

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 3:14:42 PM UTC-5, William! wrote:
>
> Greens preferred.
>
> Got a new build coming up and given all the Barlow Pass activity of late, 
> I figured I would check here before buying new ones =).
>

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Re: [RBW] My 71 cm AHH

[Jim Bronson]

My comments were not constructive?  Ostensibly, tall people like me form
your customer pool, and I'm also the owner of two full custom bikes, which
is another thing that would put me in your target market.  I'm just trying
to give you my viewpoint as a tall person who owns many different bikes, in
4 wheel sizes.

I plainly stated the practical difficulties that would come with owning a
wheel size that I termed as "esoteric".  Perhaps a better term would be
"not in wide distribution".  27", 700C/29er, 650B/27.5er and 26" stuff is
pretty easy to find both online and at B&M LBS shops.  I don't want to deal
with the difficulty of using a wheel size that I have to order disposable
parts for online-only.  Not being able to buy tubes at the LBS is a serious
limitation for me.  If I'm out on a randonneuring ride and I need more
tubes, it is comforting that I can stop at a bike shop, or even Walmart or
Target and pick up some 26x1.5 tubes, which work fine on a 650B setup for
me.

I see nothing inherently unsafe about 700c for larger frames, at least, in
the sizes that I would use at 6'7".  I even took it to the next level and
converted my Rivendell to 650B which is an even smaller wheel.  My bike
doesn't seem unstable in the least.

Maybe it is different for guys who are nearly 7' like Bill Walton that I
saw on your website.  I don't have any data points for 7 footers because I
am not one and don't know any.  But it seems to me if you are having
problems with stability, your frame geometry would be the first place to
look, not the size of your wheels.

I don't ride mountain bikes anymore either.  If I need to do light trails,
or ride through some gravel, I just use my Rivendell and air down the tires
a bit.  Perhaps 36" rolls better in serious off-road.  That being said I
had no problem riding 26" MTBs off road in the 90s when I was into that
sort of thing.

But let me just say that, I am not against your bikes at all.  If at some
point down the road I decide to purchase another mountain bike I will give
you a call because I do agree that they are aesthetically pleasing with the
larger wheels.

-Jim




On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:47 PM, davidfrench  wrote:

> ISO is 787.
> Tires are available and 2.25" created by VeeRuber.
> I'm working in a road tire.
> Of course they are not available at your LBS but I never had the need to
> change a tire in the wild after 2 years and thousands of hard miles (and
> two flats) on road, trails and even raced (sea otter).
> I appreciate constructive criticism. The problem is clearly identified as
> 700c wheels and traditional frames are not safe for taller riders.
>
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[RBW] WTB: Anyone have some Jack browns sitting around?

[William!]

Greens preferred.

Got a new build coming up and given all the Barlow Pass activity of late, I 
figured I would check here before buying new ones =).

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Re: [RBW] My 71 cm AHH

[davidfrench]

Patrick, the 36" cruiser bike you mention were novelty bike built by Coker, who 
were the pioneers in 36" wheels. These bikes were built for normal sized riders 
(hence their ugly proportions) and suffer from toe overlap even with ridiculous 
small cranks. They are heavy and not road or trail worthy. 
DirtySixer is a complete different animal, being the first and only 36er built 
on purpose for taller riders. Everything on the bike is oversized and adapted 
or better created from scratch. Yes we do "hybrid" or like Grant would say 
"country bikes" you can ride on road, trails, even single track, city and 
touring. 
Tires are not proprietary. 
The problem with bikes made for tall riders by normal (and skilled) builders is 
that they don't offer the stability required. Check the chain stays length for 
example: they are the same as any other smaller sizes! The AHH get maybe one or 
two cm more on that comparison picture posted earlier, which is not enough to 
prevent poor handling and stability at speed on rough terrains.

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Re: [RBW] My 71 cm AHH

[Patrick Moore]

More cool:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/04/26/soc13-dirty-sixer-builds-36-wheeled-mtbs-for-the-exceptionally-tall/

1.5" head! *10 inch rotors!!*

The photo (scroll down) of the 6'10" tester makes the bike look just right.

I remember a long-time-ago photo in Bicycling of a road frame custom built
for a 7-something NBA player. It was pictured next to a 56, which could
pass through the main triangle without touching.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Very interesting; I knew of the 36ers that were sold in the '90s --
> erstwhile Dick "It's not worth my time to look for that item" Hallet of
> ABQ's most interesting bike shop had one in his lot --  but thought these
> were merely gimmicks trading on the "baby boomer little boy" nostalgia that
> brought baggy shorts coming down to mid calf and backwards baseball caps --
> as if we wanted to be 8-year-olds again.
>
> From the website, these all seem to be off road or "hybrid" type bikes. Is
> that an accurate summary?
>
> The aesthetic advantage is obvious; these bikes look normal, to me. Is
> there a handling advantage, too?
>
> Do you have proprietary tires?
>
> Patrick "midget 5'10" " Moore, who'd love a 60 X 57.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:41 PM, davidfrench 
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder how you can judge something without riding it.
>> I have ridden the 71cm Rivendell bring 6'6" with 99cm inseam.
>> I have worked for years on the 36" wheel bikes (my company is DirtySixer)
>> to make a safer and more stable ride. More comfortable. More efficient with
>> proportionate cranks.
>> The toe overlap you learn by reading on the Internet is because some 36er
>> were built for short people therefore creating geometry problems. That is
>> not what I'm doing with my DirtySixer as they are built for people over
>> 6'4" exclusively.
>> I'd like to let you ride one if the several prototypes I built and you
>> will understand.
>> I'm in the Bay Area.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis
>
> *
>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to
> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from
> it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
> * "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
> daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
> all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
> any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
> because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
> in your time and your body can they be?*
> *  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
> "Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
> Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
> you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood  *
>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis

*
  * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
in your time and your body can they be?*
*  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus rede

Re: [RBW] Update: 68cm Quickbeam sold; 68.5 Schwinn Voyageur f/f/headset/racks still available

[Jim Bronson]

That's a cool old Schwinn, and would fit me, but would be unacceptable to
She Who Must Be Consulted.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 11:56 AM, art  wrote:

> thanks for all the interest: my 68cm Quickbeam has sold. I'm also selling
> a 68.5 cm Schwinn Voyageur  SP frame/fork/racks, for anyone looking for a
> really nice, inexpensive large frame. Ad is here:
> http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/bik/4512162763.html
>
> thanks
>
> Arthur S
> Tacoma
>
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-- 
Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

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Re: [RBW] My 71 cm AHH

[Patrick Moore]

Very interesting; I knew of the 36ers that were sold in the '90s --
erstwhile Dick "It's not worth my time to look for that item" Hallet of
ABQ's most interesting bike shop had one in his lot --  but thought these
were merely gimmicks trading on the "baby boomer little boy" nostalgia that
brought baggy shorts coming down to mid calf and backwards baseball caps --
as if we wanted to be 8-year-olds again.

>From the website, these all seem to be off road or "hybrid" type bikes. Is
that an accurate summary?

The aesthetic advantage is obvious; these bikes look normal, to me. Is
there a handling advantage, too?

Do you have proprietary tires?

Patrick "midget 5'10" " Moore, who'd love a 60 X 57.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:41 PM, davidfrench  wrote:

> I wonder how you can judge something without riding it.
> I have ridden the 71cm Rivendell bring 6'6" with 99cm inseam.
> I have worked for years on the 36" wheel bikes (my company is DirtySixer)
> to make a safer and more stable ride. More comfortable. More efficient with
> proportionate cranks.
> The toe overlap you learn by reading on the Internet is because some 36er
> were built for short people therefore creating geometry problems. That is
> not what I'm doing with my DirtySixer as they are built for people over
> 6'4" exclusively.
> I'd like to let you ride one if the several prototypes I built and you
> will understand.
> I'm in the Bay Area.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis

*
  * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
in your time and your body can they be?*
*  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
"Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood  *

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Re: [RBW] My 71 cm AHH

[davidfrench]

ISO is 787. 
Tires are available and 2.25" created by VeeRuber. 
I'm working in a road tire. 
Of course they are not available at your LBS but I never had the need to change 
a tire in the wild after 2 years and thousands of hard miles (and two flats) on 
road, trails and even raced (sea otter).
I appreciate constructive criticism. The problem is clearly identified as 700c 
wheels and traditional frames are not safe for taller riders. 

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Re: [RBW] My 71 cm AHH

[davidfrench]

I wonder how you can judge something without riding it. 
I have ridden the 71cm Rivendell bring 6'6" with 99cm inseam. 
I have worked for years on the 36" wheel bikes (my company is DirtySixer) to 
make a safer and more stable ride. More comfortable. More efficient with 
proportionate cranks. 
The toe overlap you learn by reading on the Internet is because some 36er were 
built for short people therefore creating geometry problems. That is not what 
I'm doing with my DirtySixer as they are built for people over 6'4" 
exclusively. 
I'd like to let you ride one if the several prototypes I built and you will 
understand. 
I'm in the Bay Area. 

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[RBW] Re: First ride on the Atlantis!

[Mark Reimer]

I love them. They are particularly fantastic in the winter, if you happen 
to live/ride where it snows. They roll nicely on pavement as there is 
nearly a solid treat pattern down the centre, and they're great when run at 
a lower pressure as well. I'm planning on getting a second pair for a 
single speed monster cross bike I've got waiting for tires. 

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 11:28:15 AM UTC-5, Brencho wrote:
>
> Great looking build! How are those tires treating you for on and off road 
> riding?? Really tempted to try them out soon. 
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 7:55:47 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>
>> Not yet. I was thinking about getting some Swift Industries panniers with 
>> a matching rando box-bag. I noticed during the Oregon Outback that they 
>> were testing some new lower profile front panniers that look pretty 
>> interesting. I'll probably wait until those come out to decide.
>>
>> In the mean time, I have a carradice camper long-flap that I have yet to 
>> mount. Together with the basket I can handle a s24o easily.
>>
>> I took the Atlantis on a proper ride yesterday. 40km of gravel and single 
>> track. A few little jumps and nothing fell off or apart, and the bike 
>> handled beautifully! I was amazed at being able to ride with a load in the 
>> basket and no hands on the bars. It just naturally longs to ride straight. 
>> It was an absolute pleasure. And the old Avid Tri-Aligns really surprised 
>> me. It took no major effort to lock up the tires if I wanted. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:49:49 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> That's a terriffic Atlantis build.  Do you have front panniers for that 
>>> rack yet?
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:36:29 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:

 Finally finished this up at 1am last night so I could ride to work 
 today! It's still missing some Velo Orange fenders and King Iris cages, 
 but 
 they will be in later this week.

 For those keeping track, I managed to get the White Industries cranks 
 mounted with a 118mm BB and 44x30 chain rings. I've got about 2-3mm 
 clearance at the chain ring bolts, and more at the rings, so a smaller 
 inner ring would allow for an even shorter spindle.

 I'll share some more detailed photos once the fenders are on, and this 
 weekend I'm taking it on a 100km s24o to give it a proper shakedown. I may 
 have only ridden it 5km so far, but I LOVE IT!

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/theworldisours/14204496230/in/photostream/

>>>

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Re: [RBW] FS: 60cm Ritchey Road Logic Frame, fork and Chris King headset

[William Henderson]

I’ll double check. I have no idea how to measure the ST angle. Today’s Road 
Logics list 
(http://ritcheylogic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/e/web-geo-road-logic.jpg)
 at 73.5º for this size frame, not sure if that has changed since this frame 
was made.  

--  
William
Sent from my iPhone



On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks. Again, it is a very long shot, but if it is 57 or slightly less, I am 
> interested. Center to center, please.
>  
> Also, is the seat tube angle no more than 73*?
>  
>  
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:26 PM, William Henderson 
> mailto:william.c.hender...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > I believe the TT is 58. I can measure when I get home. Condition is very 
> > good. There are some minor paint chips (mostly on the underbelly of the DT, 
> > some have been touched up) but the steel is immaculate.  
> >   
> > William
> >  
> > On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
> > > I doubt the tt is 57 cm c-c, but just in case: what is it? I'd love one 
> > > that fit me, and 60 X 56.5-57 is just right.
> > >  
> > > Condition? Looks good, but the photos are somewhat obscure.  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 12:22 PM, William!  > > (mailto:william.c.hender...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > > > $499 for list members, $550 for the unwashed masses. More info 
> > > > here:http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/4515526421.html  
> > > >  
> > > > --  
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> > > > Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> > > > an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
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> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > --  
> > > Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
> > > By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> > > Other professional writing services.
> > > http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> > > Patrick Moore
> > > Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis
> > >  
> > > *
> > >"Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to 
> > > never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away 
> > > from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.
> > > "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to 
> > > look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place 
> > > behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look 
> > > through into somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards 
> > > into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself 
> > > right now is all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, 
> > > if there was any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, 
> > > look there, because they all three will have to be in your time and your 
> > > body and where in your time and your body can they be?
> > >  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried. 
> > > "Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where 
> > > Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which 
> > > of you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood   
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > --  
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>  
>  
>

Re: [RBW] FS: 60cm Ritchey Road Logic Frame, fork and Chris King headset

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. Again, it is a very long shot, but if it is 57 or slightly less, I
am interested. Center to center, please.

Also, is the seat tube angle no more than 73*?


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:26 PM, William Henderson <
william.c.hender...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  I believe the TT is 58. I can measure when I get home. Condition is very
> good. There are some minor paint chips (mostly on the underbelly of the DT,
> some have been touched up) but the steel is immaculate.
>
> William
>
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I doubt the tt is 57 cm c-c, but just in case: what is it? I'd love one
> that fit me, and 60 X 56.5-57 is just right.
>
> Condition? Looks good, but the photos are somewhat obscure.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 12:22 PM, William! 
> wrote:
>
> $499 for list members, $550 for the unwashed masses. More info here:
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/4515526421.html
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis
>
> *
>   * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to
> never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from
> it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
> * "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
> look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
> it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
> somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
> daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
> all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
> any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
> because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
> in your time and your body can they be?*
> *  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
> "Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
> Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
> you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood  *
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>
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Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis

*
  * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
in your time and your body can they be?*
*  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed 

Re: [RBW] FS: 60cm Ritchey Road Logic Frame, fork and Chris King headset

[William Henderson]

I believe the TT is 58. I can measure when I get home. Condition is very good. 
There are some minor paint chips (mostly on the underbelly of the DT, some have 
been touched up) but the steel is immaculate.  
  
William

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:  
> I doubt the tt is 57 cm c-c, but just in case: what is it? I'd love one that 
> fit me, and 60 X 56.5-57 is just right.
>  
> Condition? Looks good, but the photos are somewhat obscure.  
>  
>  
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 12:22 PM, William!  (mailto:william.c.hender...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > $499 for list members, $550 for the unwashed masses. More info 
> > here:http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/4515526421.html  
> >  
> > --  
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> > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
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> > (mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com).
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> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>  
>  
>  
> --  
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis
>  
> *
>"Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never 
> was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. 
> Where is there a place for you to be? No place.
> "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to look 
> at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You 
> needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into somewhere 
> else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor 
> your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place 
> you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was any Redemption, 
> look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, because they all 
> three will have to be in your time and your body and where in your time and 
> your body can they be?
>  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried. "Show 
> me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where Jesus had 
> redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of you can find 
> it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood   
>  
>  
>  
>  
> --  
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] FS: 60cm Ritchey Road Logic Frame, fork and Chris King headset

[Patrick Moore]

I doubt the tt is 57 cm c-c, but just in case: what is it? I'd love one
that fit me, and 60 X 56.5-57 is just right.

Condition? Looks good, but the photos are somewhat obscure.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 12:22 PM, William! 
wrote:

> $499 for list members, $550 for the unwashed masses. More info here:
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/4515526421.html
>
> --
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>



-- 
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By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
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Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis

*
  * "Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* "Nothing outside you can give you any place," he said. "You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
in your time and your body can they be?*
*  "Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you?" he cried.
"Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
you can find it?” -- Flannery O'Connor, Wise Blood  *

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[RBW] FS: 60cm Ritchey Road Logic Frame, fork and Chris King headset

[William!]

$499 for list members, $550 for the unwashed masses. More info here:
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/4515526421.html

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis + Big Front Rack = Tektro brake interference! Any suggestions?

[Ginz]

I used this kit to lower my Big Front Rack, positioning the rack further 
from the brakes.  Worked like a charm on my Hunqapillar with CX-70 brakes. 
Tektro CR-720's would definitely not work.

http://www.tubus.com/product.php?xn=35


I may have an older version of the rack because the mounting slot doesn't 
line up with my mid-fork hourglass bosses.



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Re: [RBW] I took my Homer to the Shawangunk Mountains for a day. (A ride report)

[Iron Rider]

Yes. I think you can ride your own ride even when riding someone else's 
pace. As Deacon, suggested, if you're comfortable with pushing the pace (or 
slowing it down) to ride with others then that is "your ride" for that 
event.  In my experience, riding "slow" to stay with someone when you'd 
much rather ride fast can be as frustrating as riding "fast" when you'd 
rather slow down even though either pace could work under different 
circumstances.  In that sense it's more about having your mind 
(expectations?) and pace in sync.


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[RBW] Re: First ride on the Atlantis!

[Tom Virgil]

Excellent build and a first ride that bodes well for many future rides on 
your Atlantis.

~Tom

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:36:29 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> Finally finished this up at 1am last night so I could ride to work today! 
> It's still missing some Velo Orange fenders and King Iris cages, but they 
> will be in later this week.
>
> For those keeping track, I managed to get the White Industries cranks 
> mounted with a 118mm BB and 44x30 chain rings. I've got about 2-3mm 
> clearance at the chain ring bolts, and more at the rings, so a smaller 
> inner ring would allow for an even shorter spindle.
>
> I'll share some more detailed photos once the fenders are on, and this 
> weekend I'm taking it on a 100km s24o to give it a proper shakedown. I may 
> have only ridden it 5km so far, but I LOVE IT!
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/theworldisours/14204496230/in/photostream/
>

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[RBW] Update: 68cm Quickbeam sold; 68.5 Schwinn Voyageur f/f/headset/racks still available

[art]

thanks for all the interest: my 68cm Quickbeam has sold. I'm also selling a 
68.5 cm Schwinn Voyageur  SP frame/fork/racks, for anyone looking for a 
really nice, inexpensive large frame. Ad is here: 
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/bik/4512162763.html

thanks

Arthur S
Tacoma

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[RBW] Re: First ride on the Atlantis!

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Indeed - finely set up and looking great!

- Jim

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[RBW] Re: First ride on the Atlantis!

[Brencho]

Great looking build! How are those tires treating you for on and off road 
riding?? Really tempted to try them out soon. 


On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 7:55:47 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> Not yet. I was thinking about getting some Swift Industries panniers with 
> a matching rando box-bag. I noticed during the Oregon Outback that they 
> were testing some new lower profile front panniers that look pretty 
> interesting. I'll probably wait until those come out to decide.
>
> In the mean time, I have a carradice camper long-flap that I have yet to 
> mount. Together with the basket I can handle a s24o easily.
>
> I took the Atlantis on a proper ride yesterday. 40km of gravel and single 
> track. A few little jumps and nothing fell off or apart, and the bike 
> handled beautifully! I was amazed at being able to ride with a load in the 
> basket and no hands on the bars. It just naturally longs to ride straight. 
> It was an absolute pleasure. And the old Avid Tri-Aligns really surprised 
> me. It took no major effort to lock up the tires if I wanted. 
>
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:49:49 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> That's a terriffic Atlantis build.  Do you have front panniers for that 
>> rack yet?
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:36:29 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>>
>>> Finally finished this up at 1am last night so I could ride to work 
>>> today! It's still missing some Velo Orange fenders and King Iris cages, but 
>>> they will be in later this week.
>>>
>>> For those keeping track, I managed to get the White Industries cranks 
>>> mounted with a 118mm BB and 44x30 chain rings. I've got about 2-3mm 
>>> clearance at the chain ring bolts, and more at the rings, so a smaller 
>>> inner ring would allow for an even shorter spindle.
>>>
>>> I'll share some more detailed photos once the fenders are on, and this 
>>> weekend I'm taking it on a 100km s24o to give it a proper shakedown. I may 
>>> have only ridden it 5km so far, but I LOVE IT!
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/theworldisours/14204496230/in/photostream/
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Optimal tire pressure questions...

[Jan Heine]

I totally agree with you. You also have to know that Berto's curve is an 
average of a lot of tires he tested. I have his raw data, and different 
tires deflect very differently. A supple tire will give you 20% tire drop 
for the same pressure where an ultra-stiff one gives you 5% or less. (In 
fact, one "critic" on rec.bicycles.tech complained that there was no way to 
get 15% tire drop, even with zero air pressure. I suspect he did something 
else wrong, but part of the problem was that he was using Specialized 
Armadillo tires!)

In the end, this brings up a much bigger question: Do we work from first 
principles forward, or do we work backward from our "subjective" experience 
of riding on the road? At Bicycle Quarterly, we start with the ride, and 
then devise tests to confirm that our "subjective" impressions hold up 
under rigorous scientific scrutiny. Bicycles are so complex that this seems 
to be the best approach. All attempts to work from first principles forward 
have not yielded useful results, as far as applicability to real-world 
conditions is concerned.

So in the case of 15% tire drop, we tested tires at various pressures and 
looked at where the drop-off in performance occurred. We found that this 
roughly correlates to Berto's 15% tire drop. So we recommend Berto's chart 
as a starting point for experimentation. However, it's only a starting 
point... For example, I ride my wider tires at higher pressures than 
Berto's chart would indicate, if you extrapolate it. With the extremely 
supple casings, the tires otherwise tend to collapse under hard cornering...

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
www.bikequarterly.com

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:27:06 PM UTC-7, ted wrote:
>
> Which is an "appeal to authority" and a "seems to work ok where we have 
> used it". Which is fine so far as it goes, but its not much to go by for 
> guessing how applicable either extrapolations of Berto's curves or the 15% 
> rule of thumb are outside the domain where we have experience using them.
>
> I hope I don't come across as to critical. I have pulled the equation for 
> the regression fit of Berto's curves from the spreadsheet and like using 
> it. But I suspect I would do as well (practically speaking) if I just let 
> air out of the tires till they squished a good bit when I got on the bike, 
> and then just rode it and adjusted for feel.
>
> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 8:57:33 PM UTC-7, Jan Heine wrote:
>>
>> Originally, the 15% drop came from the tire companies to whom Frank Berto 
>> talked. So Frank then just tried to figure out how to get that value.
>>
>> Our initial tire testing indicated that somewhere around 15% tire drop 
>> was the point where performance and comfort were optimized. Since then, we 
>> found that at least for supple tires, even lower pressures don't seem to 
>> slow the bike down, so it matters even less.
>>
>> However, even today, the 15% tire drop values from the chart are a good 
>> starting point for experimenting with tire pressure...
>>
>> Jan Heine
>> Editor
>> Bicycle Quarterly
>> www.bikequarterly.com
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:19:49 PM UTC-7, ted wrote:
>>>
>>> But I think the real question is whats so special about 15% drop. I 
>>> can't recall seeing any supporting argument / evidence for it being optimal.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Looking for ride north or south to the RBW 20th Anniversary Gathering and Entmoot -- SF Bay edition

[Curtis McKenzie]

Hi All,

I am looking for a ride either from San Diego/LA area north or from
Portland south to the 20 Anniversary Gathering.  I plan to ride south to
Santa Barbara after the event so I am looking to arrive without a car.

Thanks.

Curtis

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Re: [RBW] My 71 cm AHH

[Jim Bronson]

I'm 6'7" and not really interested in esoteric wheel sizes.  And I'm using
650B anyway on my Rivendell.  Granted, I would probably use 700Cx38 Barlow
Pass if my Riv had clearance for that size with fenders, but the 650B is
fine, really.

A solution looking for a problem, perhaps?  What is the actual ISO size of
these 36ers?  Maybe it's a better solution for big mountain bikes.  But I'm
failing to see the advantages that make it worthwhile enough to deal with
the problems of limited supply.  And I would think toe overlap would be a
big issue with a larger wheel.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 9:30 AM, davidfrench  wrote:

> When you're tall enough for a 71cm (even a 68 or 66), you should look into
> a 36er. Better proportions, better stability etc.
> Let me know if you need attest ride, I'm in the Bay Area.
>
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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

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[RBW] Re: Question about installation of rear fender on Roadeo

[Eric Peterson]

I ended up making a stainless bracket in the shape of a shallow U with 
holes drilled on either side. One side is fastened to the threaded hole in 
the bridge, the other to the fender with nylon insert nut.
So it serves as a standoff.
I needed to bend one side of the "U" slightly to make it parallel with the 
fender.
Here's a 2D representation:
  __
(fender) hole ---> /   | <---hole (bridge)

Eric

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 10:36:32 PM UTC-5, Eric Peterson wrote:
>
> I am installing some SKS fenders on my Roadeo and for the rear fender I am 
> puzzled by the long distance between the natural fender position and the 
> threaded hole just behind the BB. 
> What is the best way to span this distance?
> I don't want to compromise the threaded rear fender attachment with a long 
> bolt, but I see no other way to securely fasten the fender there.
> Pictures and advice?
>
> Thanks,
> Eric
>

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[RBW] Re: First ride on the Atlantis!

[Mark Reimer]

Not yet. I was thinking about getting some Swift Industries panniers with a 
matching rando box-bag. I noticed during the Oregon Outback that they were 
testing some new lower profile front panniers that look pretty interesting. 
I'll probably wait until those come out to decide.

In the mean time, I have a carradice camper long-flap that I have yet to 
mount. Together with the basket I can handle a s24o easily.

I took the Atlantis on a proper ride yesterday. 40km of gravel and single 
track. A few little jumps and nothing fell off or apart, and the bike 
handled beautifully! I was amazed at being able to ride with a load in the 
basket and no hands on the bars. It just naturally longs to ride straight. 
It was an absolute pleasure. And the old Avid Tri-Aligns really surprised 
me. It took no major effort to lock up the tires if I wanted. 

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:49:49 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> That's a terriffic Atlantis build.  Do you have front panniers for that 
> rack yet?
>
> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:36:29 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>
>> Finally finished this up at 1am last night so I could ride to work today! 
>> It's still missing some Velo Orange fenders and King Iris cages, but they 
>> will be in later this week.
>>
>> For those keeping track, I managed to get the White Industries cranks 
>> mounted with a 118mm BB and 44x30 chain rings. I've got about 2-3mm 
>> clearance at the chain ring bolts, and more at the rings, so a smaller 
>> inner ring would allow for an even shorter spindle.
>>
>> I'll share some more detailed photos once the fenders are on, and this 
>> weekend I'm taking it on a 100km s24o to give it a proper shakedown. I may 
>> have only ridden it 5km so far, but I LOVE IT!
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/theworldisours/14204496230/in/photostream/
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: First ride on the Atlantis!

[Bill Lindsay]

That's a terriffic Atlantis build.  Do you have front panniers for that 
rack yet?

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:36:29 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> Finally finished this up at 1am last night so I could ride to work today! 
> It's still missing some Velo Orange fenders and King Iris cages, but they 
> will be in later this week.
>
> For those keeping track, I managed to get the White Industries cranks 
> mounted with a 118mm BB and 44x30 chain rings. I've got about 2-3mm 
> clearance at the chain ring bolts, and more at the rings, so a smaller 
> inner ring would allow for an even shorter spindle.
>
> I'll share some more detailed photos once the fenders are on, and this 
> weekend I'm taking it on a 100km s24o to give it a proper shakedown. I may 
> have only ridden it 5km so far, but I LOVE IT!
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/theworldisours/14204496230/in/photostream/
>

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[RBW] Re: Old Steel

[Will]

There's a lot to like. The frame geometry is excellent. The only bother is 
they don't accommodate tires more than about 32mm with fenders. 
Our family has a 610, 613 and 620. All from early '80s. There's an 830 
Antelope frame waiting for love. 

I like the 613 best. It has side tacked seat stays and the brake bridges 
are set higher, so you can get 32's on with fenders. It's a marvelous ride. 
There's something about 700 x32 that resonates. Maybe 650x42 is better. 
Don't know. 

The early 80's Treks remind me of 70's Raleigh Competitions and Raleigh 
Internationals. Really compliant, lively, frames. 

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 5:41:40 PM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I know there was a recent post about '60s  & '70s bikes, and I don't want 
> to belabor some fine points, but
>
> I took my '84 Trek 620 ( built from Reynolds 531C) out today for the first 
> time since bringing it back from Ca. last Nov.  What a joy!  I used this as 
> a commuter  for many years but in retirement it has reemerged as a 650B 
> travel & go fast bike, with pari-moto tires.  Great road manners, a 
>  beautiful blend of stability and agility,  comfort and speed. Pretty much 
> the same geo as my Ram. 
>
> Early on in this ride I encountered a small dog at the bottom of a hill, 
> but easily accelerated away from it.  Later I needed to jump into a left 
> hand lane to get around an interstate entrance.  Easy, just get on the 
> wheel of a pickup and go.
>
> Sweet,
> Michael
>

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[RBW] My 71 cm AHH

[davidfrench]

When you're tall enough for a 71cm (even a 68 or 66), you should look into a 
36er. Better proportions, better stability etc. 
Let me know if you need attest ride, I'm in the Bay Area. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Question about installation of rear fender on Roadeo

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/11/2014 09:57 AM, Jim Bronson wrote:
What if you have no accommodation for a fender on the seat stay bridge 
at all?  I am currently using rubberized P clamp and a zip tie, but 
it's not very elegant and I have to fiddle with it constantly.  Any 
suggestions?


Drill and tap a hole on the underside?


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Re: [RBW] Re: Question about installation of rear fender on Roadeo

[Jim Bronson]

What if you have no accommodation for a fender on the seat stay bridge at
all?  I am currently using rubberized P clamp and a zip tie, but it's not
very elegant and I have to fiddle with it constantly.  Any suggestions?


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Shoji Takahashi 
wrote:

> If the bolt engages enough of the threaded hole, you should be fine.
>
> Cork works (Anton and others use this-- plenty-o-pics on Flickr showing it)
> Aluminum spacer works (Riv video posted earlier shows Mark doing this)
> Plastic spacer works (Peter White's method, see ~7th pic or so
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/rambouillet.asp)
>
> Sean of Riv used the spacers from Shimano CX70 canti-brakes in his Roadeo
> BOM
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/staff23.htm
>
> VO offers a spring-thing-- I have this on my CC, but honestly I don't get
> it.
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:20:28 AM UTC-4, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
>> I used a long bolt and a spring as a spacer.  I don't have to remember to
>> remove a cork/spacer before removing the wheel.  That's good for the times
>> I'm fixing a flat on the road.  My Riv Road has forward facing horizontal
>> dropouts (Campy 1010).
>>
>> Sometimes I have to re-adjust the spring after re-mounting the wheel;
>> it's not 100% automatic.  But pretty good.
>>
>> I rummaged around the spring drawers at my local hardware store until I
>> found one that seemed ok.  I'ts about 2.5" long, and light/medium strength.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:
>>
>>> +1 on the wine cork idea.
>>>
>>> --Eric N
>>> www.CampyOnly.com
>>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>>
>>> On Jun 11, 2014, at 4:40 AM, Anton Tutter  wrote:
>>>
>>> I've used a wine bottle cork as a spacer when the bridge mount is
>>> farther away than it should be.  Works great!
>>>
>>> Anton
>>>
>>> ridingthecatskills.com
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:38:14 AM UTC-4, blakcloud wrote:

 Go to around 2:49 of this video
 Rivendell produced in
 installing fenders. You can see what they did.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Question about installation of rear fender on Roadeo

[Tim Gavin]

Jim-

That's the situation on my Riv Road.  I use a P-clamp, a long bolt, a
spring, several washers, and a locknut.  It's not 100% secure, but the
tension from the spring and from the fender itself keep it together with no
squeaks.

I don't have a picture, but I could get you one tonight.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Jim Bronson  wrote:

> What if you have no accommodation for a fender on the seat stay bridge at
> all?  I am currently using rubberized P clamp and a zip tie, but it's not
> very elegant and I have to fiddle with it constantly.  Any suggestions?
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Shoji Takahashi <
> shoji.takaha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If the bolt engages enough of the threaded hole, you should be fine.
>>
>> Cork works (Anton and others use this-- plenty-o-pics on Flickr showing
>> it)
>> Aluminum spacer works (Riv video posted earlier shows Mark doing this)
>> Plastic spacer works (Peter White's method, see ~7th pic or so
>> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/rambouillet.asp)
>>
>> Sean of Riv used the spacers from Shimano CX70 canti-brakes in his Roadeo
>> BOM
>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/staff23.htm
>>
>> VO offers a spring-thing-- I have this on my CC, but honestly I don't get
>> it.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:20:28 AM UTC-4, Tim Gavin wrote:
>>
>>> I used a long bolt and a spring as a spacer.  I don't have to remember
>>> to remove a cork/spacer before removing the wheel.  That's good for the
>>> times I'm fixing a flat on the road.  My Riv Road has forward facing
>>> horizontal dropouts (Campy 1010).
>>>
>>> Sometimes I have to re-adjust the spring after re-mounting the wheel;
>>> it's not 100% automatic.  But pretty good.
>>>
>>> I rummaged around the spring drawers at my local hardware store until I
>>> found one that seemed ok.  I'ts about 2.5" long, and light/medium strength.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:
>>>
 +1 on the wine cork idea.

 --Eric N
 www.CampyOnly.com
 CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
 Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

 On Jun 11, 2014, at 4:40 AM, Anton Tutter  wrote:

 I've used a wine bottle cork as a spacer when the bridge mount is
 farther away than it should be.  Works great!

 Anton

 ridingthecatskills.com

 On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:38:14 AM UTC-4, blakcloud wrote:
>
> Go to around 2:49 of this video
> Rivendell produced in
> installing fenders. You can see what they did.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY
>
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>>>
>>>  --
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>
>
>
> --
> Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Question about installation of rear fender on Roadeo

[Peter Morgano]

The spring thing is really only needed with horizontal dropouts. Getting a
tire past the fender is a PITA without it, but for vertical drops any
spacer will do.
On Jun 11, 2014 9:43 AM, "Shoji Takahashi" 
wrote:

> If the bolt engages enough of the threaded hole, you should be fine.
>
> Cork works (Anton and others use this-- plenty-o-pics on Flickr showing it)
> Aluminum spacer works (Riv video posted earlier shows Mark doing this)
> Plastic spacer works (Peter White's method, see ~7th pic or so
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/rambouillet.asp)
>
> Sean of Riv used the spacers from Shimano CX70 canti-brakes in his Roadeo
> BOM
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/staff23.htm
>
> VO offers a spring-thing-- I have this on my CC, but honestly I don't get
> it.
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:20:28 AM UTC-4, Tim Gavin wrote:
>>
>> I used a long bolt and a spring as a spacer.  I don't have to remember to
>> remove a cork/spacer before removing the wheel.  That's good for the times
>> I'm fixing a flat on the road.  My Riv Road has forward facing horizontal
>> dropouts (Campy 1010).
>>
>> Sometimes I have to re-adjust the spring after re-mounting the wheel;
>> it's not 100% automatic.  But pretty good.
>>
>> I rummaged around the spring drawers at my local hardware store until I
>> found one that seemed ok.  I'ts about 2.5" long, and light/medium strength.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:
>>
>>> +1 on the wine cork idea.
>>>
>>> --Eric N
>>> www.CampyOnly.com
>>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>>
>>> On Jun 11, 2014, at 4:40 AM, Anton Tutter  wrote:
>>>
>>> I've used a wine bottle cork as a spacer when the bridge mount is
>>> farther away than it should be.  Works great!
>>>
>>> Anton
>>>
>>> ridingthecatskills.com
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:38:14 AM UTC-4, blakcloud wrote:

 Go to around 2:49 of this video
 Rivendell produced in
 installing fenders. You can see what they did.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY

  --
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Question about installation of rear fender on Roadeo

[Shoji Takahashi]

If the bolt engages enough of the threaded hole, you should be fine.

Cork works (Anton and others use this-- plenty-o-pics on Flickr showing it)
Aluminum spacer works (Riv video posted earlier shows Mark doing this)
Plastic spacer works (Peter White's method, see ~7th pic or so 
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/rambouillet.asp)

Sean of Riv used the spacers from Shimano CX70 canti-brakes in his Roadeo 
BOM
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/staff23.htm

VO offers a spring-thing-- I have this on my CC, but honestly I don't get 
it.


On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:20:28 AM UTC-4, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> I used a long bolt and a spring as a spacer.  I don't have to remember to 
> remove a cork/spacer before removing the wheel.  That's good for the times 
> I'm fixing a flat on the road.  My Riv Road has forward facing horizontal 
> dropouts (Campy 1010).
>
> Sometimes I have to re-adjust the spring after re-mounting the wheel; it's 
> not 100% automatic.  But pretty good.  
>
> I rummaged around the spring drawers at my local hardware store until I 
> found one that seemed ok.  I'ts about 2.5" long, and light/medium strength.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Eric Norris  > wrote:
>
>> +1 on the wine cork idea. 
>>
>> --Eric N
>> www.CampyOnly.com
>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>
>> On Jun 11, 2014, at 4:40 AM, Anton Tutter > 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I've used a wine bottle cork as a spacer when the bridge mount is farther 
>> away than it should be.  Works great!
>>
>> Anton
>>
>> ridingthecatskills.com
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:38:14 AM UTC-4, blakcloud wrote:
>>>
>>> Go to around 2:49 of this video 
>>> Rivendell produced in 
>>> installing fenders. You can see what they did. 
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY
>>>
>>>  -- 
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Question about installation of rear fender on Roadeo

[Tim Gavin]

I used a long bolt and a spring as a spacer.  I don't have to remember to
remove a cork/spacer before removing the wheel.  That's good for the times
I'm fixing a flat on the road.  My Riv Road has forward facing horizontal
dropouts (Campy 1010).

Sometimes I have to re-adjust the spring after re-mounting the wheel; it's
not 100% automatic.  But pretty good.

I rummaged around the spring drawers at my local hardware store until I
found one that seemed ok.  I'ts about 2.5" long, and light/medium strength.


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 7:32 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:

> +1 on the wine cork idea.
>
> --Eric N
> www.CampyOnly.com
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>
> On Jun 11, 2014, at 4:40 AM, Anton Tutter  wrote:
>
> I've used a wine bottle cork as a spacer when the bridge mount is farther
> away than it should be.  Works great!
>
> Anton
>
> ridingthecatskills.com
>
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:38:14 AM UTC-4, blakcloud wrote:
>>
>> Go to around 2:49 of this video
>> Rivendell produced in
>> installing fenders. You can see what they did.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY
>>
>>  --
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[RBW] Re: Old Steel

[Andrew Marchant-Shapiro]

Mid-80's Treks are, IMHO, some of the *best* bikes ever made.  I've owned a 
620, a 560, and a 400, all from that period, and I built up a 560 for my 
son before my own (his was a 49cm and his first decent bike; it inspired me 
to get one for myself.  Mine was a 57 (approx measures in both cases).  
Just great bikes, even if they *do* want you to thread the shift cable 
through the chainstay :-/.


On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 6:41:40 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I know there was a recent post about '60s  & '70s bikes, and I don't want 
> to belabor some fine points, but
>
> I took my '84 Trek 620 ( built from Reynolds 531C) out today for the first 
> time since bringing it back from Ca. last Nov.  What a joy!  I used this as 
> a commuter  for many years but in retirement it has reemerged as a 650B 
> travel & go fast bike, with pari-moto tires.  Great road manners, a 
>  beautiful blend of stability and agility,  comfort and speed. Pretty much 
> the same geo as my Ram. 
>
> Early on in this ride I encountered a small dog at the bottom of a hill, 
> but easily accelerated away from it.  Later I needed to jump into a left 
> hand lane to get around an interstate entrance.  Easy, just get on the 
> wheel of a pickup and go.
>
> Sweet,
> Michael
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grand Bois tires, size discrepancy

[Peter Morgano]

I do appreciate the pictures on Rivendells site that shows the calipers,
tire and rim all in one shot, makes it a bit clealer and seems a simple
system for at least having some baseline.
On Jun 11, 2014 1:13 AM, "ted"  wrote:

> More or less, and whether 2mm out of 32 should be called a 6% or a 12%
> effect it is certainly 2mm and if that matters to you then it matters.
> I tend to go overboard on wishing folks would provide more detail so maybe
> I am nuts here, but I wish when tire widths were stated the rim they were
> measured on was also given. I sort of wish the convention was to state bead
> to bead separation with the tire flattened out instead of mounted width.
>
> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:27:22 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:
>>
>> So you're saying, then, that low-pressure tires compress not because the
>> air pressure inside them changes, but because the tire deforms in response
>> to a force and the air pressure inside it remains more or less the same.
>> You say it behaves like a spring and we should analyze it like a spring.
>>
>> So then one would like a tall tire (with a lot of drop) because it would
>> have lots of room to deform and soak up bumps, but then then the tall tire
>> needs to be wide for good cornering.  And one would like a tire with a
>> supple sidewall because that would also contribute to the tire deforming
>> instead of bouncing when it encounters bumps.
>>
>> That sounds convincing to me.
>>
>> But, to return to the issue of whether the Cypres is smaller than other
>> tires made by Panaracer that are called 32 mm tires: I say yes, because (1)
>> Panaracer marks Paselas as 32 mm tires and Cypres as 30 mm tires and (2)
>> when brand new, flat folded Paselas are wider than flat folded Cypreses.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:02 PM, ted  wrote:
>>
>>> The derivate of contact patch area with respect to "drop".
>>>
>>> I think the support force is roughly psi times contact patch area. I
>>> think that though the internal pressure may increase slightly that effect
>>> is negligible because the change in tire volume is a tiny fraction of the
>>> total. I think the spring rate is psi times delta area divided by delta
>>> drop. I think the relationships between contact patch area, tire width and
>>> drop are a bit complicated. I suspect spring rate dependence on width is
>>> closer to linear than the width squared dependence that is implied by
>>> assuming it varies with cross sectional area (which is what I think you are
>>> suggesting). So for cush I think it is closer to a linear linear dependence.
>>>
>>> For pinch flats I think you get a linear increase in spring rate from
>>> the width and another linear increase in allowable deformation due to the
>>> hight that goes with the width. So that would suggest a scale factor
>>> squared dependance on that front.
>>>
>>> My experience of late has been that I pick the pressure based on ride
>>> and handling. Pinch flats just haven't been a problem for me. Of course I
>>> don't assume that is the case for everybody.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:14:42 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:
>>>
 The effective spring rate is going to depend on volume, isn't it,
 because the volume says how much air there is and that determines how much
 compression there can be? And the contact patch is going to depend on
 diameter, isn't it?

 The derivative of the contact patch with respect to what?


 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 6:34 PM, ted  wrote:

> I would think we care about effective spring rate (cush) and how much
> additional travel is possible before getting a pinch flat. Aren't those
> driven by the contact patch size, its derivative, and the height of the
> tire? How does cross section area (or volume) drive those?
> Are you sure this is a diameter squared dependency?
>
> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 5:31:44 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
>> It's 6% in diameter, but that makes 12% difference in volume, which
>> is what we care about.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Deacon Patrick 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That's about a 6% discrepancy, which certainly seems reasonable
>>> given different rim widths and tire stretch.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:52:31 PM UTC-6, Anne Paulson wrote:

 If you order some of Jan Heine's tires, be aware of a size
 discrepancy.

 I just got a couple of his Grand Bois tires, which are sold as 700
 x 32mm. I knew they were made by Panaracer, and I have used the 
 Panaracer
 Pasela 32mm and the Jack Brown 33mm tires, so I figured I knew what to
 expect. When the tires arrived, they looked narrower than I expected. 
 Then,
 when I opened them up, they were labelled 700 x 30. Then, when I 
 mounted
 them on my Mavic Open Pro rims, they meas

Re: [RBW] Re: Question about installation of rear fender on Roadeo

[Eric Norris]

+1 on the wine cork idea. 

--Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Jun 11, 2014, at 4:40 AM, Anton Tutter  wrote:
> 
> I've used a wine bottle cork as a spacer when the bridge mount is farther 
> away than it should be.  Works great!
> 
> Anton
> 
> ridingthecatskills.com
> 
>> On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:38:14 AM UTC-4, blakcloud wrote:
>> Go to around 2:49 of this video Rivendell produced in installing fenders. 
>> You can see what they did. 
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY
> 
> -- 
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[RBW] Re: Hip Replacement (not much Riv content)

[William R.]

I don't post much but I follow everything. Glad you are up and riding again 
Bob. Your island photos are terrific too!

-Bill

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[RBW] Re: Question about installation of rear fender on Roadeo

[Anton Tutter]

I've used a wine bottle cork as a spacer when the bridge mount is farther 
away than it should be.  Works great!

Anton

ridingthecatskills.com

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:38:14 AM UTC-4, blakcloud wrote:
>
> Go to around 2:49 of this video 
> Rivendell produced in 
> installing fenders. You can see what they did. 
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Question about installation of rear fender on Roadeo

[blakcloud]

Go to around 2:49 of this video 
Rivendell produced in 
installing fenders. You can see what they did. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG_WZVS9SUY

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[RBW] Question about installation of rear fender on Roadeo

[Andrew Marchant-Shapiro]

When I first installed fenders on my Model D, I had to deal with horizontal 
dropouts, and didn't.  I just let the bolt pull the steel fender forward.  
Later, to clean things up, I used a long bolt, but drilled, cut, and sliced a 
rubber cork (the type chemists use in flasks) for a snug fit over a long then 
bolt, which I terminated with a nylock nut (washers at both ends).  The cork 
was a removable spacer.  It kept the fender snugly where it made a good line, 
but if I needed to remove the rear wheel, I could pull it off the bolt, and 
slide the bolt through the bridge to allow the fender enough room to flex and 
allow the wheel out.

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