Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[ted]

What would he be giving up that wouldn't be worth it? Sounds like you are 
very familiar with both models, have you owned both?

As to "Ebay for some 531 bike or going with a Boulder or Lyon might be more 
what you are after" it might, or it might not be. Really it depends on what 
dstein likes. Me, I have a late 70's Nobilette 531 frame that I basically 
stopped using when I got my hands on a stiffer more responsive frame. Of 
course now I hardly ever ride that frame either, and mostly ride my AHH. 
There is no one right answer for all people and all situations.

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 8:37:04 AM UTC-8, Clayton.sf wrote:
>
> These bikes are all very similar.
>
> I don't think switching to an AHH will be a huge Chang and what you give 
> up in return might not be worth it. 
>
> Ebay for some 531 bike or going with a Boulder or Lyon might be more what 
> you are after.
>
> Clayton
> SF, CA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[ted]

At my local ACE hardware/lumber yard they have a nice selection of 
stainless metric hardware. They also have nylon and aluminum spacers in 
various lengths.With luck somebody near you does too.

I like the "button head" fasteners for mounting fenders. They seem to 
protrude less than the others. Sometimes I use a fender washer between the 
bolt head and the inside of the fender to spread the load. Depends a bit on 
what is on the outside.

When drilling a hole for brake bridge mounting I like to put some masking 
tape on the fender and mark the front and back of the bridge with a pen. 
Then I remove the fender, measure for the center carefully both lengthwise 
and transversely, make a dent with a spring loaded center punch (keeps the 
drill from walking) and drill the hole.

Though I think Steve is overstating the case severely, I do prefer the bolt 
into the bottom of the brake bridge method of fender mounting. It's not 
that hard to do and is quite clean and positive once done. 

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 9:03:08 AM UTC-8, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Thanks, Steve. I get the theory behind the better, but as I said, I've 
> never experienced shifting or rattling caused by the seat stay attachment. 
> This includes plastic SKS, old Bluemels, and newer VO metal fenders. Maybe 
> I've been lucky, but I'm also not sure how much play can develop at the mid 
> point if both the fore (chainstay) and aft (drop-out braze-on) attachment 
> points are secure, and the bracket is pinched well. I do understand that 
> the other way may offer a cleaner, more integrated look for high end 
> machines, and I know what you mean that the situation has improved--my 
> newer model VO fenders are easier to set up than the first iterations. (In 
> fact I did find one of my bicycles with a similar attachment, though these 
> fenders were OEM. My not terribly high end Raleigh Twenty.) And finally, if 
> you are going to design a "fancy" constructeur-style attachment for the 
> rear, why not include the fork crown eye bolt, which is not to be found on 
> the Clem (which has plenty of other braze-ons, so I doubt it is a matter of 
> cutting corners)?
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 9:57:33 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: 
>
> On 12/29/2015 09:34 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>
> It may be vastly better, but I have to report never having had an issue 
> with the bracket style mount. Nevertheless, since I do not have that 
> option, I seek advice. What type of bolt head do people use so as to create 
> the least protrusion in the middle of the inside of the fender? 
>
>
> Something like this is nice:
>
>
>
>
>
> Leather washer goes between outside of fender and seat stay.
>
> Pudge, what did you use for the Clementine above? Did you use a leather 
> washer between the fender and what looks like a long aluminum spacer?  (The 
> other nice thing about the bracket besides no protruding hardware inside 
> the fender is it gives you a bit of latitude in adjusting the fender line 
> at this contact point, both laterally and vertically. With the vastly 
> better option, you need to figure it out and measure twice, cut once.)
>
>
> You have to attach a bracket to the fender, and either you bolt the 
> bracket to the fender, in which case the hardware to do that protrudes 
> inside the fender, or you clamp it around the edges and no matter how 
> tightly you do that it can (and as these things go, if it can it will) move 
> over time, giving rise to rattles and changing the fender line.  What's 
> more, a bracket can't be as solid a mount as directly screwing it into the 
> seat stay bridge or to an eye bolt inside the fork crown.  That, plus the 
> fact that it looks much better without brackets, is why "vastly better."
>
> As for "figure it out and measure it twice," that is how it is with metal 
> fenders.  It's much easier now than it was 10 years ago, since most metal 
> fenders of this type now come pre-drilled for the stays.  Back in the day, 
> they never did, and you had to mount, mark, remove, drill, reinstall, mark, 
> remove, drill, reinstall etc., several times.  Even with brackets, to a 
> large extent this is still the way it is.  You can't do all your measuring 
> at one time, because once you mount the first mount things change.  It's a 
> Zen kind of thing that requires patience and zero sense of urgency: it will 
> take however long it takes, and it cannot be hurried.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[ted]

Dave,

John is right. Drop everything and go look at (and test ride) that bike 
immediately. It should help clarify your options more than any amount of 
internet advice. You may go meh, you may catch a case of lust, but either 
way I bet it helps settle what you want (including what size is best for 
you).

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 10:12:17 AM UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Have you seen this one on CL? 
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5378131226.html  Relatively close to 
> you.  Not cheap but appears to be a nice build with low mileage.
>
> John
>
> On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 12:26:59 PM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>>
>> I have a year and a half old green Hunqapillar, 48cm, with a bit 
>> of beausage and touch up paint (from waterford). I have sed this as my 
>> primary mountain bike (hence the beausage) and camping bike but have 
>> recently gotten another mountain bike and this is being used primarily for 
>> all rounder duties. I love love love this bike. But I'm thinking an AHH 
>> would make for a better bike since I primarily keep to roads with some 
>> light trails (if anyone has both and feels differently please feel free to 
>> correct me). 
>>
>> I am 5'7" with a 79-80 PBH. I was on the fence b/w a 48cm and 51cm Hunq 
>> and went with 48cm for better standover for trail riding and glad I did. 
>>
>> Hoping someone here might have an AHH and looking to get into more trail 
>> riding with a Hunq ;)
>>
>> Please reply privately if so. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[ted]

dstein,

If you think the Hunqapillar and the Sam Hillborne ride the same you will 
likely think the Sam and the Hilsen ride the same too.
As you pointed out Grant has said the Sam and Hilsen are functionally 
interchangeable, though there are differences between them.

I haven't ridden a Hunqapillar much, but I do have a first generation 
Bombadil and an AHH. For riding mostly roads I prefer the AHH. I think they 
ride differently, with the AHH being more responsive and the Bombadil being 
more stable. But it's possible that in a blind (if that were possible) test 
with the same components and position on each frame I wouldn't be able to 
tell the difference. 

How would you like your next bike to seem different than your Hunqapillar? 
What attributes would make a "better bike" seem better to you? 

I think you live in the east bay, in which case it could be well worth your 
while to bop over to RBW and test ride Hunqapillar, Hillborne, Hilsen, 
Roadeo back to back to 

Btw what tires do you have? Earlier you posted there were Smart Sams on 
there, now Compass. Are your Compass tires Rat Trap Pass or a smaller size?

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 5:09:20 AM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>
> I actually do have compass tires on there now ;)  And that is my fear. I 
> felt the hunq and sam rode the same honestly and since i liked the hunq 
> more i sold the sam. And I've heard the sam and ahh ride the same (grant's 
> words).
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Clayton.sf  > wrote:
>
>> Get some compass tires for your hunq- it will be much faster. If you want 
>> really fast, look into skinny flexy tubing or some vintage 531 and compass 
>> tires. The AHH likely won't be that huge of an upgrade.
>>
>> Clayton Scott
>> SF, CA
>>
>> --
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>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> .
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[davecstein]

Ha! I saw that yesterday. The price is high and I think I'd want a 52, but I 
may go check it out. I'm actually traveling and it'll be a while before I can 
check it out but funny timing since I almost never see AHH's for sale

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2015, at 12:43 PM, ted  wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> 
> John is right. Drop everything and go look at (and test ride) that bike 
> immediately. It should help clarify your options more than any amount of 
> internet advice. You may go meh, you may catch a case of lust, but either way 
> I bet it helps settle what you want (including what size is best for you).
> 
>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 10:12:17 AM UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>> Dave,
>> 
>> Have you seen this one on CL? 
>> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5378131226.html  Relatively close to 
>> you.  Not cheap but appears to be a nice build with low mileage.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>>> On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 12:26:59 PM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>>> I have a year and a half old green Hunqapillar, 48cm, with a bit of 
>>> beausage and touch up paint (from waterford). I have sed this as my primary 
>>> mountain bike (hence the beausage) and camping bike but have recently 
>>> gotten another mountain bike and this is being used primarily for all 
>>> rounder duties. I love love love this bike. But I'm thinking an AHH would 
>>> make for a better bike since I primarily keep to roads with some light 
>>> trails (if anyone has both and feels differently please feel free to 
>>> correct me). 
>>> 
>>> I am 5'7" with a 79-80 PBH. I was on the fence b/w a 48cm and 51cm Hunq and 
>>> went with 48cm for better standover for trail riding and glad I did. 
>>> 
>>> Hoping someone here might have an AHH and looking to get into more trail 
>>> riding with a Hunq ;)
>>> 
>>> Please reply privately if so. 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Christmas Clementine

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

(I started a new thread to continue/end the conversational veer regarding 
the rear fender attachment.) The Christmas Clementine looks lovely. The 
baskets look beautiful, too. Depending on what kind of loads are planned, I 
wonder if for the long run, some kind of rack or hoop might help with 
swaying, and extra support for those leather straps. My little guy is only 
six, but whenever I tinker I try to lure him in. He enjoys helping out, and 
it's a great way to teach kids all kinds of lessons without working at it 
too hard!

I got the complete Clementine, a 52cm, so not much opportunity to get super 
creative. Having already crossed the gender line by American standards, I 
chose the black paint, and I am going with black fenders, racks, and 
saddle, to create my formal attire soccer dad vehicle. (Augmented with a 
dyno lighting system and reflective tape and clothing, of course!)

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[RBW] Re: Columbus, OH

[Christopher Wiggins]

We're not really in the neighborhood, but my store is in Indianapolis.  We 
are a Riv dealer.

Cheers!

On Sunday, December 20, 2015 at 12:52:29 PM UTC-5, Dan Scott wrote:
>
> Just moved to the Columbus, OH (New Albany) and wondering if any others 
> Riv owners here and also looking for a Riv type bike shop in the area. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[Clayton.sf]

These bikes are all very similar.

I don't think switching to an AHH will be a huge Chang and what you give up in 
return might not be worth it. 

Ebay for some 531 bike or going with a Boulder or Lyon might be more what you 
are after.

Clayton
SF, CA

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[RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks, Steve. I get the theory behind the better, but as I said, I've 
never experienced shifting or rattling caused by the seat stay attachment. 
This includes plastic SKS, old Bluemels, and newer VO metal fenders. Maybe 
I've been lucky, but I'm also not sure how much play can develop at the mid 
point if both the fore (chainstay) and aft (drop-out braze-on) attachment 
points are secure, and the bracket is pinched well. I do understand that 
the other way may offer a cleaner, more integrated look for high end 
machines, and I know what you mean that the situation has improved--my 
newer model VO fenders are easier to set up than the first iterations. (In 
fact I did find one of my bicycles with a similar attachment, though these 
fenders were OEM. My not terribly high end Raleigh Twenty.) And finally, if 
you are going to design a "fancy" constructeur-style attachment for the 
rear, why not include the fork crown eye bolt, which is not to be found on 
the Clem (which has plenty of other braze-ons, so I doubt it is a matter of 
cutting corners)?






On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 9:57:33 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: 

On 12/29/2015 09:34 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

It may be vastly better, but I have to report never having had an issue 
with the bracket style mount. Nevertheless, since I do not have that 
option, I seek advice. What type of bolt head do people use so as to create 
the least protrusion in the middle of the inside of the fender? 


Something like this is nice:





Leather washer goes between outside of fender and seat stay.

Pudge, what did you use for the Clementine above? Did you use a leather 
washer between the fender and what looks like a long aluminum spacer?  (The 
other nice thing about the bracket besides no protruding hardware inside 
the fender is it gives you a bit of latitude in adjusting the fender line 
at this contact point, both laterally and vertically. With the vastly 
better option, you need to figure it out and measure twice, cut once.)


You have to attach a bracket to the fender, and either you bolt the bracket 
to the fender, in which case the hardware to do that protrudes inside the 
fender, or you clamp it around the edges and no matter how tightly you do 
that it can (and as these things go, if it can it will) move over time, 
giving rise to rattles and changing the fender line.  What's more, a 
bracket can't be as solid a mount as directly screwing it into the seat 
stay bridge or to an eye bolt inside the fork crown.  That, plus the fact 
that it looks much better without brackets, is why "vastly better."

As for "figure it out and measure it twice," that is how it is with metal 
fenders.  It's much easier now than it was 10 years ago, since most metal 
fenders of this type now come pre-drilled for the stays.  Back in the day, 
they never did, and you had to mount, mark, remove, drill, reinstall, mark, 
remove, drill, reinstall etc., several times.  Even with brackets, to a 
large extent this is still the way it is.  You can't do all your measuring 
at one time, because once you mount the first mount things change.  It's a 
Zen kind of thing that requires patience and zero sense of urgency: it will 
take however long it takes, and it cannot be hurried.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[RJM]

Wheel size will make a difference with how the bikes feel. Going from the 
Hunq to the Hilsen, he will be going from 26" to 650b. That is a change I 
can usually feel and on the road I think the 650b feels faster. 

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 11:58:17 AM UTC-6, ted wrote:
>
> dstein,
>
> If you think the Hunqapillar and the Sam Hillborne ride the same you will 
> likely think the Sam and the Hilsen ride the same too.
> As you pointed out Grant has said the Sam and Hilsen are functionally 
> interchangeable, though there are differences between them.
>
> I haven't ridden a Hunqapillar much, but I do have a first generation 
> Bombadil and an AHH. For riding mostly roads I prefer the AHH. I think they 
> ride differently, with the AHH being more responsive and the Bombadil being 
> more stable. But it's possible that in a blind (if that were possible) test 
> with the same components and position on each frame I wouldn't be able to 
> tell the difference. 
>
> How would you like your next bike to seem different than your Hunqapillar? 
> What attributes would make a "better bike" seem better to you? 
>
> I think you live in the east bay, in which case it could be well worth 
> your while to bop over to RBW and test ride Hunqapillar, Hillborne, Hilsen, 
> Roadeo back to back to 
>
> Btw what tires do you have? Earlier you posted there were Smart Sams on 
> there, now Compass. Are your Compass tires Rat Trap Pass or a smaller size?
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 5:09:20 AM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>>
>> I actually do have compass tires on there now ;)  And that is my fear. I 
>> felt the hunq and sam rode the same honestly and since i liked the hunq 
>> more i sold the sam. And I've heard the sam and ahh ride the same (grant's 
>> words).
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Clayton.sf  wrote:
>>
>>> Get some compass tires for your hunq- it will be much faster. If you 
>>> want really fast, look into skinny flexy tubing or some vintage 531 and 
>>> compass tires. The AHH likely won't be that huge of an upgrade.
>>>
>>> Clayton Scott
>>> SF, CA
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/CQRh7rPiKSc/unsubscribe
>>> .
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>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[ted]

I think his Sam was 650B too, so if he thought his Sam and his Hunqapillar 
rode the same the wheel size probably doesn't matter to him.

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 10:19:58 AM UTC-8, RJM wrote:
>
> Wheel size will make a difference with how the bikes feel. Going from the 
> Hunq to the Hilsen, he will be going from 26" to 650b. That is a change I 
> can usually feel and on the road I think the 650b feels faster. 
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 11:58:17 AM UTC-6, ted wrote:
>>
>> dstein,
>>
>> If you think the Hunqapillar and the Sam Hillborne ride the same you will 
>> likely think the Sam and the Hilsen ride the same too.
>> As you pointed out Grant has said the Sam and Hilsen are functionally 
>> interchangeable, though there are differences between them.
>>
>> I haven't ridden a Hunqapillar much, but I do have a first generation 
>> Bombadil and an AHH. For riding mostly roads I prefer the AHH. I think they 
>> ride differently, with the AHH being more responsive and the Bombadil being 
>> more stable. But it's possible that in a blind (if that were possible) test 
>> with the same components and position on each frame I wouldn't be able to 
>> tell the difference. 
>>
>> How would you like your next bike to seem different than your 
>> Hunqapillar? What attributes would make a "better bike" seem better to you? 
>>
>> I think you live in the east bay, in which case it could be well worth 
>> your while to bop over to RBW and test ride Hunqapillar, Hillborne, Hilsen, 
>> Roadeo back to back to 
>>
>> Btw what tires do you have? Earlier you posted there were Smart Sams on 
>> there, now Compass. Are your Compass tires Rat Trap Pass or a smaller size?
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 5:09:20 AM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>>>
>>> I actually do have compass tires on there now ;)  And that is my fear. I 
>>> felt the hunq and sam rode the same honestly and since i liked the hunq 
>>> more i sold the sam. And I've heard the sam and ahh ride the same (grant's 
>>> words).
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Clayton.sf  wrote:
>>>
 Get some compass tires for your hunq- it will be much faster. If you 
 want really fast, look into skinny flexy tubing or some vintage 531 and 
 compass tires. The AHH likely won't be that huge of an upgrade.

 Clayton Scott
 SF, CA

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>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[William deRosset]

>It is a *logical* idea.


Dear Benz,

We could have had this "logical" action with either a reverse-acting front 
derailleur (offered by Suntour and others for a spell) and the "Rapid Rise" 
derailleurs, among many others--the first modern derailleurs used a reverse 
rear action, and it comes back from time to time. We adjusted to the way we 
do it after initial designs that work "logically."

I speculate we end up with our current arrangement for two reasons. One is 
ergonomic, and one is functional. The ergonomic argument makes the most 
sense to me.

First, when one double-shifts with a standard setup, (i.e. going from small 
to big ring up front, simultaneously shifting to a bigger cog in back), 
both levers move in the same direction, facilitating an easy one-handed 
shift with downtube levers. It is the same muscle movement for Ergo levers 
i.e. actuate both inner levers or both thumb buttons, and it is the same 
distance of travel to make the shift work right if you're using "racing" 
gears; similarly for barcons. 

It requires much more dexterity to do an accurate simultaneous double shift 
with friction levers (it is easier with indexing) and one reverse-pull 
derailleur in the mix, and it is two different movements with barcons or 
the various integrated lever systems. Consequently, a single reverse-pull 
derailleur is a huge hassle when operating a half-step, for example, when 
(sequentially anyway) every other shift is a double, or if you're between 
ranges on a compact double.

Now, this could have been done with either the standard setup, or with both 
lever pulls reversed, so why set up with high-normal in the rear and 
low-normal up front?

When a rear derailleur cable fails (or is not installed), the derailleur 
moves away from the spokes in a standard setup. This eases installation and 
limits/eliminates the possibility of a derailleur getting mashed into the 
freewheel or spokes unexpectedly. Also, in very early designs, derailleurs 
had no limit stops, and a failed cable threw the derailleur into the 
spokes The Cyclo, with no return spring, was a huge step up--at the 
expense of double-cable design. The front derailleur also gets muscular 
support (vs a spring) to force the chain up onto the big ring, and you get 
direct manual feedback on when the chain has caught, which is when you can 
safely apply power to the cranks again.

Cheers,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 11:49:14 PM UTC-7, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
wrote:
>
> It is a *logical* idea.
>
> Imagine if we didn't have the legacy baggage of pulling cable to downshift 
> in the back. Wouldn't it make more sense if both front and rear derailleurs 
> did the same (upshift or downshift) if a particular action was actuated 
> (such as pull or release cable)? With rapid-rise (or Low normal), Shimano 
> was just harmonizing front and rear derailleur actions so pulling cable 
> (with DT, thumbs, barends & STI) will all result in upshifts. Sounds pretty 
> logical to me and it should be easier to teach newbies too.
>
> I also seem to recall that one of the technical reasons for rapid-rise was 
> to improve rear shifting. Apparently, the downshift-facilitating ramps on 
> the HG cassettes work better when the chain is gently prodded by a spring, 
> rather than getting ham-fisted with an overly eager rider.
>
> In any case, it's not a particularly hard skill to switch to. No shifts 
> are truly critical for non-pros, so a mis-shift here or there isn't bad. 
> One can always harmonize all Shimano-equipped bikes with rapid-rise rear 
> derailleurs! :)
>
> Anyone remember the reverse shifting Sachs *front* derailleur?
>
>
> On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 11:28:37 AM UTC-8, Garth wrote:
>>
>>
>>  Rapid Rise was doomed before it even started !  If it was such a great 
>> idea then why didn't they make all shifting that way, mtb and road ?  ... 
>> ___ .  exactly .  Saying it was good for some and not the other 
>> right there doomed it.  A solution to problem that didn't exist. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: OT: C Coincidence

[George Schick]

Unfortunately, while the widening of the canal may help worldwide commerce 
as a whole, it will probably put a significant dent in U.S. and Canadian 
railroad profits.  Little known to most folks, the Pacific Rim shippers 
currently use North America as a "land bridge" for containers destined for 
Europe and other parts of the Mediterranean area. Container ships unload at 
ports in Southern Cal. and in the Vancouver area of Canada, load them onto 
railroad "well cars," where they are hauled to the East Coast where they 
are once again loaded onto ships destined to the Continent.  I live just a 
few miles from both Union Pacific and BNSF tracks and frequently get stuck 
at grade crossings while waiting for long container freights to pass.  I 
expect there will be an impact on labor (dock workers, etc.) and the 
railroads will have to try to pull some rabbits out of their magic hats in 
order to compete against whatever the Panama Canal Authority charges for 
passage fees.


On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 6:42:27 AM UTC-6, islaysteve wrote:
>
> Last night I watched an episode of Modern Marvels on the History Channel 
> about the incredible construction project to "widen" the Panama Canal 
> accomodate the larger super container ships.  It wasn't until they were 
> showing how the 100 ft-high steel lock gates were constructed and moved 
> (from Italy!) that I realized that earlier in the day I had been walking 
> along a 180-year-old canal which had thick wood gates and was operated by 
> men and mules.  It was a bit of a moment, maybe you had to be there!
>
> Riv content:  I was checking out the condition of the towpath from 
> Vioette's Lock northward for a ride (hopefully) later this week; and 
> getting some exercise.  I will ride my Bleriot.  Also, near the end of the 
> show, someone was talking about how the larger canal will change worldwide 
> commerce.  Meaning I suppose, that more goods from Asia will be shipped 
> directly to our East Coast, rather than shipping to the West and traveling 
> overland to the East.  (And vice versa for European goods.)  Since some of 
> Riv's goods come from Taiwan, and a great deal of other bicycles and 
> bicycle components also come from Taiwan and other Asian countries, I 
> wonder how this may affect the industry that we are all concerned with 
> here.  
> Cheers, Steve
>
>

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[RBW] FS: parting out a bike

[David Banzer]

MKS pedals, VO cage sold. 
Chainrings, and Suntour shifters are pending payment. 

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[RBW] Re: Columbus, OH

[Abcyclehank]

Christopher,
You must be the closest Riv dealer to us here in West Michigan.  What Riv 
frames or bikes do you have in stock?  Great time for Midwesterners to build 
bikes etc.

Ryan "looking forward to my next Indy trip" Hankinson

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[RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[Surlyprof]

Dave,

Have you seen this one on 
CL? http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5378131226.html  Relatively close 
to you.  Not cheap but appears to be a nice build with low mileage.

John

On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 12:26:59 PM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>
> I have a year and a half old green Hunqapillar, 48cm, with a bit 
> of beausage and touch up paint (from waterford). I have sed this as my 
> primary mountain bike (hence the beausage) and camping bike but have 
> recently gotten another mountain bike and this is being used primarily for 
> all rounder duties. I love love love this bike. But I'm thinking an AHH 
> would make for a better bike since I primarily keep to roads with some 
> light trails (if anyone has both and feels differently please feel free to 
> correct me). 
>
> I am 5'7" with a 79-80 PBH. I was on the fence b/w a 48cm and 51cm Hunq 
> and went with 48cm for better standover for trail riding and glad I did. 
>
> Hoping someone here might have an AHH and looking to get into more trail 
> riding with a Hunq ;)
>
> Please reply privately if so. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[davecstein]

All good questions! I actually have some 650b wheels left over from a Sam I 
briefly owned and have been running those on the hunq, outfitted with compass 
42mm tires. I ran smart sam's on there for a long time and still have them.

I'm looking for something lighter that climbs better than the hunq. My litmus 
test are a few climbs in Oakland including tunnel road. It is noticeably slower 
on the hunq than on my go fast road bike (Gunnar), which would be expected. 
However, given that the hunq was bought to be my primary mountain bike, and is 
no longer serving that purpose, and is in fact seeing way more road miles, my 
hope is that a more road oriented Rivendell would make more sense. The 
hunqapillar is fine as it is, and if there is not going to be noticeably faster 
than I may just stay with that. 

But my initial thought process is that an AHH is comparable in price and resale 
value to my hunq (while having all the fixings for racks, fenders, kick stands, 
etc.), and being lighter and hopefully a little faster, would be a good trade 
if there was one to be had. And I also have a 650b  wheel set with 2 nice sets 
of tires that would fit it nicely. I'm also not really looking to spend any 
money, hence the trade aspect of it.

I feel like I've struck out on finding a 52 or 54 ahh at RBW to test, maybe I 
need to go back and see what is there. This isn't an urgent thing and I'm happy 
riding the hunq and keeping it a long time. But I am very AHH curious ;)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:58 AM, ted  wrote:
> 
> dstein,
> 
> If you think the Hunqapillar and the Sam Hillborne ride the same you will 
> likely think the Sam and the Hilsen ride the same too.
> As you pointed out Grant has said the Sam and Hilsen are functionally 
> interchangeable, though there are differences between them.
> 
> I haven't ridden a Hunqapillar much, but I do have a first generation 
> Bombadil and an AHH. For riding mostly roads I prefer the AHH. I think they 
> ride differently, with the AHH being more responsive and the Bombadil being 
> more stable. But it's possible that in a blind (if that were possible) test 
> with the same components and position on each frame I wouldn't be able to 
> tell the difference. 
> 
> How would you like your next bike to seem different than your Hunqapillar? 
> What attributes would make a "better bike" seem better to you? 
> 
> I think you live in the east bay, in which case it could be well worth your 
> while to bop over to RBW and test ride Hunqapillar, Hillborne, Hilsen, Roadeo 
> back to back to 
> 
> Btw what tires do you have? Earlier you posted there were Smart Sams on 
> there, now Compass. Are your Compass tires Rat Trap Pass or a smaller size?
> 
>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 5:09:20 AM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>> I actually do have compass tires on there now ;)  And that is my fear. I 
>> felt the hunq and sam rode the same honestly and since i liked the hunq more 
>> i sold the sam. And I've heard the sam and ahh ride the same (grant's words).
>> 
>>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Clayton.sf  wrote:
>>> Get some compass tires for your hunq- it will be much faster. If you want 
>>> really fast, look into skinny flexy tubing or some vintage 531 and compass 
>>> tires. The AHH likely won't be that huge of an upgrade.
>>> 
>>> Clayton Scott
>>> SF, CA
>>> 
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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Jim Bronson]

Generally true, although my buddy's Riv custom sets up really well for
fenders, probably because he specified it needed to be built that way.
I am jealous of his custom, the fenders look so clean compared to
mine.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>
> On 12/29/2015 12:03 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Steve. I get the theory behind the better, but as I said, I've
>> never experienced shifting or rattling caused by the seat stay attachment.
>> This includes plastic SKS, old Bluemels, and newer VO metal fenders. Maybe
>> I've been lucky, but I'm also not sure how much play can develop at the mid
>> point if both the fore (chainstay) and aft (drop-out braze-on) attachment
>> points are secure, and the bracket is pinched well. I do understand that the
>> other way may offer a cleaner, more integrated look for high end machines,
>> and I know what you mean that the situation has improved--my newer model VO
>> fenders are easier to set up than the first iterations. (In fact I did find
>> one of my bicycles with a similar attachment, though these fenders were OEM.
>> My not terribly high end Raleigh Twenty.) And finally, if you are going to
>> design a "fancy" constructeur-style attachment for the rear, why not include
>> the fork crown eye bolt, which is not to be found on the Clem (which has
>> plenty of other braze-ons, so I doubt it is a matter of cutting corners)?
>>
>
> Rivendells are typically not really very well set up for fendering. Not only
> is there not a fork crown eye bolt, but all too often the bridges are not
> placed equidistant from the wheel centers, making it difficult if not
> impossible to achieve a good fender line.  I recall as a case in point one
> small Atlantis that needed the full length of a wine cork as a spacer
> between the edge of the fender and the chainstay bridge.  It doesn't cost
> any more to put the bridges in the right place than to put them 2-3cm too
> far away, so it's clearly not a cost issue, but rather one of not caring.
> And after all, no one who cared would even dream of suggesting using zip
> ties to mount fenders on a bike costing several thousand dollars.
>
> But then, think about the climate out where those bikes are designed.  I've
> never been there, but I've heard many times Walnut Creek is a place where it
> rains for a couple of months, and then nary a drop for the rest of the year,
> so full-time fenders don't make a compelling case.
>
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Michael Hechmer]

Sometimes I have resisted parts because they are not shiny silver or Al. 
 Sometimes it has been a mistake.  When I refurbished my Ram as a double I 
resisted the White VBC crank even though it looked like it would give me 
exactly what I needed and would function perfectly.  I decided to order it 
and discovered it was a shiny, polished black that looked great.  Then I 
resisted  mating it with the Shimano RD 6700SS because it was grey. 
 Ultimately I bought it too and found it has given me the best friction 
shifting I have ever had. No regrets.

OTOH, after a year with plastic fenders on the Ram I gave up and am 
returning to hammered Al.

Michael



On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 3:06:12 PM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> I hope it shifts good.  It sure is pretty!
>

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[RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[iamkeith]

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 2:44:42 PM UTC-7, Justin August wrote:
>
> ^^
> The Microshift R10 does all that. As does the SunXCD. 
>
> -J
>

Funny, and thanks!  I didn't even know about the SunXCD, and now its 
mentioned in two threads on the same day.   I love this place.

(Product description says it supports a 34t cassette and 9 speed chain, but 
36t and 8 speed are easily within the "one-generation apart, don't do 
anything stupid and you'll be just fine" overlap range.)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

['joe kelly' via RBW Owners Bunch]

those silver quickbeams are great looking. i really like that color.


On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 6:35:12 PM UTC-5, Michael Rivers wrote:
>
> I stole Eric's and Phillip Williamson's idea, and use my QB in the same 
> way. Three speeds are great around relatively flat Washington, DC, and the 
> low gear helps when I'm bringing home groceries or adult beverages. My top, 
> direct drive gear is also 72 in, and I have a freewheel in the back. There 
> is a bar end shifter on the right side of the handlebars. 
>
> This is a seriously bomb proof bike.
>
> https://flic.kr/p/vVXhPB
>
> Michael 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Eric Norris]

How did you run the cable under the bottom bracket? I went with the traditional 
fulcrum pulley at the top of the seat tube, but your solution looks very nice.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On Dec 29, 2015, at 3:35 PM, Michael Rivers  wrote:
> 
> I stole Eric's and Phillip Williamson's idea, and use my QB in the same way. 
> Three speeds are great around relatively flat Washington, DC, and the low 
> gear helps when I'm bringing home groceries or adult beverages. My top, 
> direct drive gear is also 72 in, and I have a freewheel in the back. There is 
> a bar end shifter on the right side of the handlebars. 
> 
> This is a seriously bomb proof bike.
> 
> https://flic.kr/p/vVXhPB
> 
> Michael 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[sameness]

What is the sound of one hand wringing?

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[ted]

Michael,

Since you say "returning to hammered Al" I presume you had that before 
going to plastic.
What prompted you to change to plastic, and were the plastic ones SKS 
longboards?

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 4:11:56 PM UTC-8, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Sometimes I have resisted parts because they are not shiny silver or Al. 
>  Sometimes it has been a mistake.  When I refurbished my Ram as a double I 
> resisted the White VBC crank even though it looked like it would give me 
> exactly what I needed and would function perfectly.  I decided to order it 
> and discovered it was a shiny, polished black that looked great.  Then I 
> resisted  mating it with the Shimano RD 6700SS because it was grey. 
>  Ultimately I bought it too and found it has given me the best friction 
> shifting I have ever had. No regrets.
>
> OTOH, after a year with plastic fenders on the Ram I gave up and am 
> returning to hammered Al.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 3:06:12 PM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>
>> I hope it shifts good.  It sure is pretty!
>>
>

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[RBW] PSA: 53cm Atlantis on CL

[Sky Coulter]

For what seems like a great price:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/bik/5379703508.html

Sky in New West

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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Ron Mc]

I've got 2000 miles on mine, and it's been a great derailleur.  
You can spruce it up even more with Microshift alloy/ball-bearing jockey 
wheels 


  

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFC07D6

here's a different brand, even cheaper with other colors 
http://www.amazon.com/Bearing-Jockey-Derailleur-JY-C11S-Shimano/dp/B016RON2T8

>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Christopher Murray]

This does look like a nice bike but why? I don't get it. 

Cheers!
Chris

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/29/2015 05:39 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

Steve

You will be pleased to know my Hillborne has a threaded boss on the 
underside of the seatstay bridge, perfectly placed for easy fender 
installation.  My Hillborne has a threaded boss on the trailing edge 
of its kickstand plate, perfectly placed for easy perfect fender 
line.  All my Rivendells have vertical dropouts, which allow me to 
achieve good fenderlines.  I've owned several Rivendells and none of 
them required a wine cork.


I am indeed pleased to hear that.   It's what we should expect on a 
quality frame, and other than issues with misplaced bridges Rivendells 
certainly are quality frames.



So from my perspective "typical" is very good fenderability.  Not 
perfect, but very good.  I was pleased to inspect the Appaloosa 
frameset and find an inward facing threaded boss on the seatstay 
bridge.  I hope they are equidistant, as you would hope.  So, not all 
Rivendells will infuriate you the way that one small Atlantis did and 
continues to do.  I can't think of anybody on this group that has 
gotten as much mileage out of badmouthing somebody else's bike than 
you have out of that one small Atlantis.  Maybe all my recent good 
luck with fenders on Rivendells has been the result of your frequent 
"constructive criticism" of that one small Atlantis? If that's the 
case, thanks!


What can I say?  "Infuriating" is wrong: I found it shocking. 
Dismaying.  Deeply disappointing.  Maybe I expected too much.  If things 
have changed for the better, then I am delighted.




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[RBW] Re: What stem?

[Garth]

   FWIW iamkeith, As I have done it myself, but comparing bars is very 
tricky, and photographing them and seeing them properly compared is 
impossible ! 

As for the bike, have you considered buying a Bosco standalone bar and a 
negative rise stem ?  This would have the potential to lower the bars much 
lower than cutting a mere 1/2" off the steerer . Also, how do you know a 
mere 1/2"(1.25cm) is enough ?  What then ?  Also, no bike is truly meant 
for any bar or stem. Just because someone had the bar at hand and designed 
a frame by no means limits it to that or any other bar.  How many people 
ride Alba or Moustache bars on road and racing bikes sold with drop bars 
originally ? Lots ! 

Sure it costs more, but someone here would surely buy the bullmoose from 
you.  Basically hey, we all love to rationalize things to death, 
literally.  My favorite saying is "So What ?" to any self defeating and 
deflating arguments .  Aright, so what if you cut the steerer ? So what if 
you buy separate bar and stem ? So what So what SO WHAT ?  !  !   So look 
at my reply the same way . . . lol . . . So What ? !!!  


On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 6:01:16 PM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:
>
>
> Garth, I know what you mean about thinking twice before cutting the 
> steerer.  I definitely will.  The counter argument is that this bike seems 
> to be made specifically for the Bosco or something quite similar, so I 
> don't think there's as much need to keep all options open.   The problem 
> for me is that the frame is borderline too big.  So between the sloped top 
> tube, the extended steerer tube and the rise of the bars themselves, they 
> just end up too high relative to my saddle.  Cutting a half inch off would 
> give me much needed ability to lower them, while someone taller could still 
> simply extend the stem.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Patrick Moore]

Why the 3 speed instead of single speed? I can see having some lower gears
for longer rides, and the S3X is a way to get them when you don't have a
derailleur hangar or don't want multiple cogs.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Christopher Murray <
chrispmurra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> This does look like a nice bike but why? I don't get it.
>
> Cheers!
> Chris
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[ted]

Wow Dave, that is a lot. Like 25 or 30 percent slower eh? To put that all 
down to weight difference would mean like 40 pounds wouldn't it? Is your 
Gunnar 10s of pounds lighter than your Hunqapillar?
I suspect a lot of your difference is down to position on the bike, whats 
on the bike (i.e. racks, fenders, bags, gear, kickstands etc), and effort. 
On the Atlantis product page it says the AHH is about a pound lighter, so I 
don't see how a Hunqapillar can be more than a few pounds heavier than an 
AHH.
I doubt very much that just swapping frames is going to make a big dent in 
that sort of a time difference.

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 11:58:08 AM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>
> Ted - My ambivalence starts when a lot of money and time get invested into 
> it. I realize its a long shot to get an exact trade (or close to it, 
> ideally for just a frame and fork trade). Could be worth it in the long 
> run. I'd have to  put some thought into it. 
>
> I do about 33-35 minutes up on the Gunnar at my fastest and closer to 45 
> minutes up on the Hunq. Different setups. Gunnar has a mark's rack and 
> small trunksack and drop bars, it also has a pretty lightweight wheelset. 
> The Hunq has albastaches and also a front rack, sometimes with a basket and 
> things. With my regular riding buddies I can keep up on the gunnar but 
> definintely fall behind on the Hunq.
>
> No issues with the brakes, they're the cx70's. It takes a few minutes to 
> adjust them up and down when i change out the wheelsets but otherwise works 
> pretty well, and the outside diameter is pretty similar between the 26 2.1 
> smart sams and the 650b 42mm babyshoe pass tires.
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 11:46 AM, ted  
> wrote:
>
>> Did your brakes have enough range of adjustment for the change from 26" 
>> to 650B?
>>
>> I'm actually a bit surprised that you are "noticeably slower on the hunq 
>> than on my go fast road bike" going up say Tunnel road. Do you notice the 
>> difference just by feel on your own, by timing it, by comparison with a 
>> regular riding partner? Is your position the same on both bikes? Same style 
>> bars? Same pedals? How many pounds lighter is the Gunnar comparing ready to 
>> ride bikes? How much do you and the bike ready to roll out the drive weigh? 
>> How much more stuff is on the Hunqapillar? What is your time up Tunnel road?
>>
>> Getting from the Hunqapillar to an AHH is probably going to cost you some 
>> $$, at least as temporary outlay with some risk of permanence. The one near 
>> Alameda may be as good a fit as you see in some time. Complete bikes tend 
>> to be better bargains, by selling off all the extra parts after merging 
>> between your Hunqapillar and the AHH and selling the Hunqapillar as a frame 
>> fork and headset you might get close to breaking even. If your ambivalent 
>> about changing, it's likely not worth the trouble.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 10:58:22 AM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>>>
>>> All good questions! I actually have some 650b wheels left over from a 
>>> Sam I briefly owned and have been running those on the hunq, outfitted with 
>>> compass 42mm tires. I ran smart sam's on there for a long time and still 
>>> have them.
>>>
>>> I'm looking for something lighter that climbs better than the hunq. My 
>>> litmus test are a few climbs in Oakland including tunnel road. It is 
>>> noticeably slower on the hunq than on my go fast road bike (Gunnar), which 
>>> would be expected. However, given that the hunq was bought to be my primary 
>>> mountain bike, and is no longer serving that purpose, and is in fact seeing 
>>> way more road miles, my hope is that a more road oriented Rivendell would 
>>> make more sense. The hunqapillar is fine as it is, and if there is not 
>>> going to be noticeably faster than I may just stay with that. 
>>>
>>> But my initial thought process is that an AHH is comparable in price and 
>>> resale value to my hunq (while having all the fixings for racks, fenders, 
>>> kick stands, etc.), and being lighter and hopefully a little faster, would 
>>> be a good trade if there was one to be had. And I also have a 650b  wheel 
>>> set with 2 nice sets of tires that would fit it nicely. I'm also not really 
>>> looking to spend any money, hence the trade aspect of it.
>>>
>>> I feel like I've struck out on finding a 52 or 54 ahh at RBW to test, 
>>> maybe I need to go back and see what is there. This isn't an urgent thing 
>>> and I'm happy riding the hunq and keeping it a long time. But I am very AHH 
>>> curious ;)
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:58 AM, ted  wrote:
>>>
>>> dstein,
>>>
>>> If you think the Hunqapillar and the Sam Hillborne ride the same you 
>>> will likely think the Sam and the Hilsen ride the same too.
>>> As you pointed out Grant has said the Sam and Hilsen are functionally 
>>> interchangeable, though there are differences between them.
>>>
>>> I haven't ridden 

Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Patrick Moore]

If anyone has a 130 spaced, 32 hole, S3X in good condition -- no rim,
please -- I am interested. Stevie's ordered me a 36 and couldn't find a 32
to replace it on the market.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Michael Rivers  wrote:

> I stole Eric's and Phillip Williamson's idea, and use my QB in the same
> way. Three speeds are great around relatively flat Washington, DC, and the
> low gear helps when I'm bringing home groceries or adult beverages. My top,
> direct drive gear is also 72 in, and I have a freewheel in the back. There
> is a bar end shifter on the right side of the handlebars.
>
> This is a seriously bomb proof bike.
>
> https://flic.kr/p/vVXhPB
>
> Michael
>
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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Ryan Fleming]

yuplotsa times and  usually they worked really well, too. That is a 
pretty derailleur...the older Suntour stuff was really nice too. Is that 
the new Suntour deralleur to shift a 10-cog cassette?



On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 2:06:12 PM UTC-6, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> I hope it shifts good.  It sure is pretty!
>

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[RBW] Re: What stem?

[iamkeith]

OK.  Here are some snapshots - hope this is helpful.   These two stems seem 
to put the bars in an "equivalent" position to me, which is to say that the 
center of the main, straight part of the grips are the same fore/aft 
distance from the rider.   Bosco is on a 130mm/10 degree stem, which is 
probably pretty comparable to the 120mm/0 degree bullmoose stem with the 
quill extended a bit.   Albatross is on a similar 70mm/10 degree stem.  So, 
to my eye, it looks like there would need to be around 6 cm shorter stem on 
the albatross, to fit the same.   Easy enough to extrapolate from there, if 
you're looking to change the riding position as well.














Garth, I know what you mean about thinking twice before cutting the 
steerer.  I definitely will.  The counter argument is that this bike seems 
to be made specifically for the Bosco or something quite similar, so I 
don't think there's as much need to keep all options open.   The problem 
for me is that the frame is borderline too big.  So between the sloped top 
tube, the extended steerer tube and the rise of the bars themselves, they 
just end up too high relative to my saddle.  Cutting a half inch off would 
give me much needed ability to lower them, while someone taller could still 
simply extend the stem.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, Tim Wood wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone for the input. I sent a PM to Keith requesting comparison 
> photos of the albas and Boscos on the Clem but maybe others would want to 
> see them, Keith up to you if you want to post them here. 
>
> A lot of my desire to do a bar switch is fit related, but some of it has 
> to do with aesthetics as I don't love the bull moose. I like the look of a 
> level quill stem versus the positive angle and triangular set up of the 
> bull moose. 
>
> I think a tallux stem with an Alba bar would give me the drop and lean I 
> am looking for, taking in to account the -40mm difference between bars 
> only, and the further difference between the stem angle of the two styles. 
>
> I never really considered the width of the Alba to be a deal breaker, or 
> concern, and this is the first time I'm hearing about that being an issue. 
> All other reviews and comments I read about the bars is that people love 
> them and often never look back once installed. The width of the boscos is 
> pretty extreme and I can't see wanting to go any wider. As it stands you 
> have to be pretty focused riding through traffic and on narrow bridge decks 
> or passing others on paths. I would be happy  with a reduction in width. 
>
> Sounds like I've made my decision! Sometimes writing out your thoughts is 
> all you need to do. Thanks for being the sounding board!  
>
>

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[RBW] Re: What stem?

[iamkeith]

OK.  Here are some snapshots - hope this is helpful.   These two stems seem 
to put the bars in an "equivalent" position to me, which is to say that the 
center of the main, straight part of the grips are the same fore/aft 
distance from the rider.   Bosco is on a 130mm/10 degree stem, which is 
probably pretty comparable to the 120mm/0 degree bullmoose stem with the 
quill extended a bit.   Albatross is on a similar 70mm/10 degree stem.  So, 
to my eye, it looks like there would need to be around 6 cm shorter stem on 
the albatross, to fit the same.   Easy enough to extrapolate from there, if 
you're looking to change the riding position as well.















Garth, I know what you mean about thinking twice before cutting the 
steerer.  I definitely will.  The counter argument is that this bike seems 
to be made specifically for the Bosco or something quite similar, so I 
don't think there's as much need to keep all options open.   The problem 
for me is that the frame is borderline too big.  So between the sloped top 
tube, the extended steerer tube and the rise of the bars themselves, they 
just end up too high relative to my saddle.  Cutting a half inch off would 
give me much needed ability to lower them, while someone taller could still 
simply extend the stem

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-7, Tim Wood wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone for the input. I sent a PM to Keith requesting comparison 
> photos of the albas and Boscos on the Clem but maybe others would want to 
> see them, Keith up to you if you want to post them here. 
>
> A lot of my desire to do a bar switch is fit related, but some of it has 
> to do with aesthetics as I don't love the bull moose. I like the look of a 
> level quill stem versus the positive angle and triangular set up of the 
> bull moose. 
>
> I think a tallux stem with an Alba bar would give me the drop and lean I 
> am looking for, taking in to account the -40mm difference between bars 
> only, and the further difference between the stem angle of the two styles. 
>
> I never really considered the width of the Alba to be a deal breaker, or 
> concern, and this is the first time I'm hearing about that being an issue. 
> All other reviews and comments I read about the bars is that people love 
> them and often never look back once installed. The width of the boscos is 
> pretty extreme and I can't see wanting to go any wider. As it stands you 
> have to be pretty focused riding through traffic and on narrow bridge decks 
> or passing others on paths. I would be happy  with a reduction in width. 
>
> Sounds like I've made my decision! Sometimes writing out your thoughts is 
> all you need to do. Thanks for being the sounding board!  
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[David Person]

Yup, I bought an XT rear derailleur for my Sam build this past summer, but 
then saw the SunXCD and spent $100 on that instead of using the XT because 
I was going for all shiny silver parts.  Maybe the XT will have to wind up 
on an Appaloosa, along with the other spare parts I have laying around, 
about enough for half a bike.  Every Sam needs a Joe for company, right?

David


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[RBW] Re: Christmas Clementine

[Cecily Walker]

Oh my stars. This reminds me of my betty foy so, so, so much. What a lovely 
bike! 


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[RBW] Re: What stem?

[iamkeith]

As I mentioned in my earlier post,  I do have the non-bullmoose and do plan 
to use a negative rise stem.  I wont cut it until I've had the opportunity 
to actually ride it.  (Right now, I just walk it up the hill and coast for 
a while).  But even if I do, remember that the insertion point will still 
be *inches* higher than any non-rivendell bike - so it's not like I'd be 
making something atypical or unusable.  I think I disagree a bit that this 
bike was meant to be used with any old bar.   I know it's "possible,"  but 
that doesn't mean it would work "well."   I see this as the poor man's 
mystery/long bike - and, regardless,  that's the kind of ride I want to 
achieve with it.  In both cases, Grant absolutely did design the bike and 
the bar in tandem, to work in unison.

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 4:38:48 PM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>
>
>FWIW iamkeith, As I have done it myself, but comparing bars is very 
> tricky, and photographing them and seeing them properly compared is 
> impossible ! 
>
> As for the bike, have you considered buying a Bosco standalone bar and a 
> negative rise stem ?  This would have the potential to lower the bars much 
> lower than cutting a mere 1/2" off the steerer . Also, how do you know a 
> mere 1/2"(1.25cm) is enough ?  What then ?  Also, no bike is truly meant 
> for any bar or stem. Just because someone had the bar at hand and designed 
> a frame by no means limits it to that or any other bar.  How many people 
> ride Alba or Moustache bars on road and racing bikes sold with drop bars 
> originally ? Lots ! 
> e
> Sure it costs more, but someone here would surely buy the bullmoose from 
> you.  Basically hey, we all love to rationalize things to death, 
> literally.  My favorite saying is "So What ?" to any self defeating and 
> deflating arguments .  Aright, so what if you cut the steerer ? So what if 
> you buy separate bar and stem ? So what So what SO WHAT ?  !  !   So look 
> at my reply the same way . . . lol . . . So What ? !!!  
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 6:01:16 PM UTC-5, iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>
>> Garth, I know what you mean about thinking twice before cutting the 
>> steerer.  I definitely will.  The counter argument is that this bike seems 
>> to be made specifically for the Bosco or something quite similar, so I 
>> don't think there's as much need to keep all options open.   The problem 
>> for me is that the frame is borderline too big.  So between the sloped top 
>> tube, the extended steerer tube and the rise of the bars themselves, they 
>> just end up too high relative to my saddle.  Cutting a half inch off would 
>> give me much needed ability to lower them, while someone taller could still 
>> simply extend the stem.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[ted]

Easy and hard are subjective assessments made by the person doing the work, 
but ...
I don't think it is accurate to say that "Rivendells are typically not 
really very well set up for fendering." They take fenders just fine. They 
all have room for fenders, they all have fender eyelets so you don't have 
to use p clamps, they all have chainstay bridges or kickstand plates that 
accommodate bolting a fender there.
Apparently some folks find using spacers hard. I don't, and I doubt I am 
alone in that view. The only thing I have ever encountered that really made 
putting fenders on a bike hard was there not being room for them. 
I am a bit mystified by the fixation on equidistant bridges (or kickstand 
plates), and abhorrence of spacers some folks seem to have.
If one orders a custom built bike and feels strongly about such details 
then by all means make your preferences known and the builder should honor 
them. Otherwise, if the fenders fit stop whining.

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 4:06:07 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> "Maybe I expected too much."
>
> I think your definition of "perfect fenders" is identical to mine.  If I 
> specified a custom, I would specify "perfect fenders" and I would specify 
> what I mean by perfect fenders in the minute detail and I would expect to 
> get them.  I don't know if you have actually ever specified a custom 
> frame.  I know you purchased at least one bike that was originally built 
> custom for somebody else, your Longstaff, but I don't think you had 
> anything to do with the original spec.  I also know that you bought a 
> M.A.P. Randonneur Project, which has some custom aspects.  Mitch builds 
> perfect fenderability whether you specify that or not, as I understand it.  
>
> My Atlantis has perfectly equidistant bridges in the back.  Since I'm 
> using tires that are far skinnier than the max, I've chosen to use a 5mm 
> spacer at both bridges, but it's the identical 5mm spacer at both spots, as 
> it should be.  If I needed no spacer at the seatstay bridge and needed a 
> >1.5" spacer at the chainstay bridge, I would be disappointed, just like 
> you.  I might even ask for a new frame.  I would probably not use that 
> situation to conclude that the bicycle company responsible for it was 
> consistently or "typically" sloppy or careless.  
>
> Specifically, I bought one of those factory refurbished "Renovelo" frames 
> from Rivendell.  It was badly out of alignment, but it passed the string 
> test.  Riv had checked it with the string test and didn't check it on a 
> frame table or by putting a wheel in it.  I returned it and Rivendell more 
> than made it right.  If I wanted to, I could have made a big deal about it, 
> claiming Rivendell was sloppy or didn't care about quality.  I could have 
> told that story as often as you have talked about that small Atlantis.  Or, 
> I could let them take care of it to my satisfaction and be done with it.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 3:09:15 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/29/2015 05:39 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: 
>> > Steve 
>> > 
>> > You will be pleased to know my Hillborne has a threaded boss on the 
>> > underside of the seatstay bridge, perfectly placed for easy fender 
>> > installation.  My Hillborne has a threaded boss on the trailing edge 
>> > of its kickstand plate, perfectly placed for easy perfect fender 
>> > line.  All my Rivendells have vertical dropouts, which allow me to 
>> > achieve good fenderlines.  I've owned several Rivendells and none of 
>> > them required a wine cork. 
>>
>> I am indeed pleased to hear that.   It's what we should expect on a 
>> quality frame, and other than issues with misplaced bridges Rivendells 
>> certainly are quality frames. 
>>
>>
>> > So from my perspective "typical" is very good fenderability.  Not 
>> > perfect, but very good.  I was pleased to inspect the Appaloosa 
>> > frameset and find an inward facing threaded boss on the seatstay 
>> > bridge.  I hope they are equidistant, as you would hope.  So, not all 
>> > Rivendells will infuriate you the way that one small Atlantis did and 
>> > continues to do.  I can't think of anybody on this group that has 
>> > gotten as much mileage out of badmouthing somebody else's bike than 
>> > you have out of that one small Atlantis.  Maybe all my recent good 
>> > luck with fenders on Rivendells has been the result of your frequent 
>> > "constructive criticism" of that one small Atlantis? If that's the 
>> > case, thanks! 
>>
>> What can I say?  "Infuriating" is wrong: I found it shocking. 
>> Dismaying.  Deeply disappointing.  Maybe I expected too much.  If things 
>> have changed for the better, then I am delighted. 
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[sameness]

I have no love for black components, but I tend to actively seek out stuff 
with a mix of black paint, dulled ano, scratches, etc. just so dirt doesn't 
look so... dirty. Half a day on the streets of LA turns a show pony into 
horse meat.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Michael Rivers]

I stole Eric's and Phillip Williamson's idea, and use my QB in the same way. 
Three speeds are great around relatively flat Washington, DC, and the low gear 
helps when I'm bringing home groceries or adult beverages. My top, direct drive 
gear is also 72 in, and I have a freewheel in the back. There is a bar end 
shifter on the right side of the handlebars. 

This is a seriously bomb proof bike.

https://flic.kr/p/vVXhPB

Michael 

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Bill Lindsay]

"Maybe I expected too much."

I think your definition of "perfect fenders" is identical to mine.  If I 
specified a custom, I would specify "perfect fenders" and I would specify 
what I mean by perfect fenders in the minute detail and I would expect to 
get them.  I don't know if you have actually ever specified a custom 
frame.  I know you purchased at least one bike that was originally built 
custom for somebody else, your Longstaff, but I don't think you had 
anything to do with the original spec.  I also know that you bought a 
M.A.P. Randonneur Project, which has some custom aspects.  Mitch builds 
perfect fenderability whether you specify that or not, as I understand it.  

My Atlantis has perfectly equidistant bridges in the back.  Since I'm using 
tires that are far skinnier than the max, I've chosen to use a 5mm spacer 
at both bridges, but it's the identical 5mm spacer at both spots, as it 
should be.  If I needed no spacer at the seatstay bridge and needed a >1.5" 
spacer at the chainstay bridge, I would be disappointed, just like you.  I 
might even ask for a new frame.  I would probably not use that situation to 
conclude that the bicycle company responsible for it was consistently or 
"typically" sloppy or careless.  

Specifically, I bought one of those factory refurbished "Renovelo" frames 
from Rivendell.  It was badly out of alignment, but it passed the string 
test.  Riv had checked it with the string test and didn't check it on a 
frame table or by putting a wheel in it.  I returned it and Rivendell more 
than made it right.  If I wanted to, I could have made a big deal about it, 
claiming Rivendell was sloppy or didn't care about quality.  I could have 
told that story as often as you have talked about that small Atlantis.  Or, 
I could let them take care of it to my satisfaction and be done with it.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 3:09:15 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12/29/2015 05:39 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: 
> > Steve 
> > 
> > You will be pleased to know my Hillborne has a threaded boss on the 
> > underside of the seatstay bridge, perfectly placed for easy fender 
> > installation.  My Hillborne has a threaded boss on the trailing edge 
> > of its kickstand plate, perfectly placed for easy perfect fender 
> > line.  All my Rivendells have vertical dropouts, which allow me to 
> > achieve good fenderlines.  I've owned several Rivendells and none of 
> > them required a wine cork. 
>
> I am indeed pleased to hear that.   It's what we should expect on a 
> quality frame, and other than issues with misplaced bridges Rivendells 
> certainly are quality frames. 
>
>
> > So from my perspective "typical" is very good fenderability.  Not 
> > perfect, but very good.  I was pleased to inspect the Appaloosa 
> > frameset and find an inward facing threaded boss on the seatstay 
> > bridge.  I hope they are equidistant, as you would hope.  So, not all 
> > Rivendells will infuriate you the way that one small Atlantis did and 
> > continues to do.  I can't think of anybody on this group that has 
> > gotten as much mileage out of badmouthing somebody else's bike than 
> > you have out of that one small Atlantis.  Maybe all my recent good 
> > luck with fenders on Rivendells has been the result of your frequent 
> > "constructive criticism" of that one small Atlantis? If that's the 
> > case, thanks! 
>
> What can I say?  "Infuriating" is wrong: I found it shocking. 
> Dismaying.  Deeply disappointing.  Maybe I expected too much.  If things 
> have changed for the better, then I am delighted. 
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: PSA: 53cm Atlantis on CL

[Belopsky]

Nice

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[RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[iamkeith]

Wasn't there talk once about a Rivendell-developed, dual-function 
derailleur that could work either way simply by switching the position of 
the spring in the parallelogram?  At the time, I thought it would be too 
ambitious of a project to ever see fruition.  On the other hand, they've 
managed to expand the line of Silver components since then, much more than 
I thought they ever would, so maybe we'll still see something.   God knows 
the market could use a good, simple, derailleur that's works with 8 speed 
chains and 36 or bigger cogs *and* comes in an attractive, polished silver 
finish.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 12:24:00 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Grant was heavy into the concept of both shifters moving the same 
> direction for easier/harder gears, despite its "rapid" demise in the 
> marketplace. They came about as Shimano was introducing something on MTBs 
> called Dual Control, which was a brake lever you nudged up or down for 
> shifts..they didn't want the shifters to have opposite actions for the same 
> move. I don't know what happened to the shifters, but RapidRise derailers 
> are long gone from that market. I suspect Riv now owns all of them ;)

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[RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[Justin August]

^^
The Microshift R10 does all that. As does the SunXCD. 

-J

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/29/2015 12:03 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:


Thanks, Steve. I get the theory behind the better, but as I said, I've 
never experienced shifting or rattling caused by the seat stay 
attachment. This includes plastic SKS, old Bluemels, and newer VO 
metal fenders. Maybe I've been lucky, but I'm also not sure how much 
play can develop at the mid point if both the fore (chainstay) and aft 
(drop-out braze-on) attachment points are secure, and the bracket is 
pinched well. I do understand that the other way may offer a cleaner, 
more integrated look for high end machines, and I know what you mean 
that the situation has improved--my newer model VO fenders are easier 
to set up than the first iterations. (In fact I did find one of my 
bicycles with a similar attachment, though these fenders were OEM. My 
not terribly high end Raleigh Twenty.) And finally, if you are going 
to design a "fancy" constructeur-style attachment for the rear, why 
not include the fork crown eye bolt, which is not to be found on the 
Clem (which has plenty of other braze-ons, so I doubt it is a matter 
of cutting corners)?




Rivendells are typically not really very well set up for fendering. Not 
only is there not a fork crown eye bolt, but all too often the bridges 
are not placed equidistant from the wheel centers, making it difficult 
if not impossible to achieve a good fender line.  I recall as a case in 
point one small Atlantis that needed the full length of a wine cork as a 
spacer between the edge of the fender and the chainstay bridge.  It 
doesn't cost any more to put the bridges in the right place than to put 
them 2-3cm too far away, so it's clearly not a cost issue, but rather 
one of not caring.  And after all, no one who cared would even dream of 
suggesting using zip ties to mount fenders on a bike costing several 
thousand dollars.


But then, think about the climate out where those bikes are designed.  
I've never been there, but I've heard many times Walnut Creek is a place 
where it rains for a couple of months, and then nary a drop for the rest 
of the year, so full-time fenders don't make a compelling case.



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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Bill Lindsay]

Steve

You will be pleased to know my Hillborne has a threaded boss on the 
underside of the seatstay bridge, perfectly placed for easy fender 
installation.  My Hillborne has a threaded boss on the trailing edge of its 
kickstand plate, perfectly placed for easy perfect fender line.  All my 
Rivendells have vertical dropouts, which allow me to achieve good 
fenderlines.  I've owned several Rivendells and none of them required a 
wine cork.  So from my perspective "typical" is very good fenderability.  
Not perfect, but very good.  I was pleased to inspect the Appaloosa 
frameset and find an inward facing threaded boss on the seatstay bridge.  I 
hope they are equidistant, as you would hope.  So, not all Rivendells will 
infuriate you the way that one small Atlantis did and continues to do.  I 
can't think of anybody on this group that has gotten as much mileage out of 
badmouthing somebody else's bike than you have out of that one small 
Atlantis.  Maybe all my recent good luck with fenders on Rivendells has 
been the result of your frequent "constructive criticism" of that one small 
Atlantis?  If that's the case, thanks!  

Happy New Year
Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA


On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 2:05:41 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Significantly more difficult to fender than my George Longstaff Audax 
> Custom.  Of course, that's a custom (made for John Bayley 25 years ago) 
> rather than an off-the-shelf bike, but still.   Both bridges in back are 
> in exactly the correct locations, and the seatstay bridge has a fender 
> mount boss underneath, and the chainstay bridge has one as well.   
> Clearance and versatility are fine things, but honestly, for the 
> chainstay bridge to be over an inch too far forward?  Today?  If Grant 
> says "it isn't hard, you just have to pay attention," should we take 
> that as evidence that he is not paying attention? 
>
> On 12/29/2015 04:47 PM, William deRosset wrote: 
> > Dear Steve, 
> > 
> > Rivendells are as easy to fender as the typical British club bikes, or 
> the Japanese sport-touring machines. It is only in the last fifteen years 
> of the integrated-bike renaissance that designing for more than "clearance" 
> and "versatility" has been even recognized as desirable in the USA. Grant 
> himself stated that it isn't hard. You just have to pay attention. 
> > 
> > Best, 
> > 
> > Will 
> > William M deRosset 
> > Fort Collins 
> > 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[David Stein]

Ted - My ambivalence starts when a lot of money and time get invested into
it. I realize its a long shot to get an exact trade (or close to it,
ideally for just a frame and fork trade). Could be worth it in the long
run. I'd have to  put some thought into it.

I do about 33-35 minutes up on the Gunnar at my fastest and closer to 45
minutes up on the Hunq. Different setups. Gunnar has a mark's rack and
small trunksack and drop bars, it also has a pretty lightweight wheelset.
The Hunq has albastaches and also a front rack, sometimes with a basket and
things. With my regular riding buddies I can keep up on the gunnar but
definintely fall behind on the Hunq.

No issues with the brakes, they're the cx70's. It takes a few minutes to
adjust them up and down when i change out the wheelsets but otherwise works
pretty well, and the outside diameter is pretty similar between the 26 2.1
smart sams and the 650b 42mm babyshoe pass tires.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 11:46 AM, ted  wrote:

> Did your brakes have enough range of adjustment for the change from 26" to
> 650B?
>
> I'm actually a bit surprised that you are "noticeably slower on the hunq
> than on my go fast road bike" going up say Tunnel road. Do you notice the
> difference just by feel on your own, by timing it, by comparison with a
> regular riding partner? Is your position the same on both bikes? Same style
> bars? Same pedals? How many pounds lighter is the Gunnar comparing ready to
> ride bikes? How much do you and the bike ready to roll out the drive weigh?
> How much more stuff is on the Hunqapillar? What is your time up Tunnel road?
>
> Getting from the Hunqapillar to an AHH is probably going to cost you some
> $$, at least as temporary outlay with some risk of permanence. The one near
> Alameda may be as good a fit as you see in some time. Complete bikes tend
> to be better bargains, by selling off all the extra parts after merging
> between your Hunqapillar and the AHH and selling the Hunqapillar as a frame
> fork and headset you might get close to breaking even. If your ambivalent
> about changing, it's likely not worth the trouble.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 10:58:22 AM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>>
>> All good questions! I actually have some 650b wheels left over from a Sam
>> I briefly owned and have been running those on the hunq, outfitted with
>> compass 42mm tires. I ran smart sam's on there for a long time and still
>> have them.
>>
>> I'm looking for something lighter that climbs better than the hunq. My
>> litmus test are a few climbs in Oakland including tunnel road. It is
>> noticeably slower on the hunq than on my go fast road bike (Gunnar), which
>> would be expected. However, given that the hunq was bought to be my primary
>> mountain bike, and is no longer serving that purpose, and is in fact seeing
>> way more road miles, my hope is that a more road oriented Rivendell would
>> make more sense. The hunqapillar is fine as it is, and if there is not
>> going to be noticeably faster than I may just stay with that.
>>
>> But my initial thought process is that an AHH is comparable in price and
>> resale value to my hunq (while having all the fixings for racks, fenders,
>> kick stands, etc.), and being lighter and hopefully a little faster, would
>> be a good trade if there was one to be had. And I also have a 650b  wheel
>> set with 2 nice sets of tires that would fit it nicely. I'm also not really
>> looking to spend any money, hence the trade aspect of it.
>>
>> I feel like I've struck out on finding a 52 or 54 ahh at RBW to test,
>> maybe I need to go back and see what is there. This isn't an urgent thing
>> and I'm happy riding the hunq and keeping it a long time. But I am very AHH
>> curious ;)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:58 AM, ted  wrote:
>>
>> dstein,
>>
>> If you think the Hunqapillar and the Sam Hillborne ride the same you will
>> likely think the Sam and the Hilsen ride the same too.
>> As you pointed out Grant has said the Sam and Hilsen are functionally
>> interchangeable, though there are differences between them.
>>
>> I haven't ridden a Hunqapillar much, but I do have a first generation
>> Bombadil and an AHH. For riding mostly roads I prefer the AHH. I think they
>> ride differently, with the AHH being more responsive and the Bombadil being
>> more stable. But it's possible that in a blind (if that were possible) test
>> with the same components and position on each frame I wouldn't be able to
>> tell the difference.
>>
>> How would you like your next bike to seem different than your
>> Hunqapillar? What attributes would make a "better bike" seem better to you?
>>
>> I think you live in the east bay, in which case it could be well worth
>> your while to bop over to RBW and test ride Hunqapillar, Hillborne, Hilsen,
>> Roadeo back to back to 
>>
>> Btw what tires do you have? Earlier you posted there were Smart Sams on
>> there, now Compass. 

Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[William deRosset]

Dear Steve,

Rivendells are as easy to fender as the typical British club bikes, or the 
Japanese sport-touring machines. It is only in the last fifteen years of the 
integrated-bike renaissance that designing for more than "clearance" and 
"versatility" has been even recognized as desirable in the USA. Grant himself 
stated that it isn't hard. You just have to pay attention.

Best,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins

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[RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[BenG]

I built an '80's mtb for my daughter using a RR rear and 8-spd indexed 
shifters.  It is wonderfully intuitive with the clickers - thumbs make it 
harder, fingers make it easier.  Then I found a new take-off RR XT for $20 on 
the discount table at LBS, from a lady who hated it on her new bike.  That 
one's still on my shelf.  World population is at least Riventory + 1.

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

Significantly more difficult to fender than my George Longstaff Audax 
Custom.  Of course, that's a custom (made for John Bayley 25 years ago) 
rather than an off-the-shelf bike, but still.   Both bridges in back are 
in exactly the correct locations, and the seatstay bridge has a fender 
mount boss underneath, and the chainstay bridge has one as well.   
Clearance and versatility are fine things, but honestly, for the 
chainstay bridge to be over an inch too far forward?  Today?  If Grant 
says "it isn't hard, you just have to pay attention," should we take 
that as evidence that he is not paying attention?


On 12/29/2015 04:47 PM, William deRosset wrote:

Dear Steve,

Rivendells are as easy to fender as the typical British club bikes, or the Japanese sport-touring 
machines. It is only in the last fifteen years of the integrated-bike renaissance that designing 
for more than "clearance" and "versatility" has been even recognized as 
desirable in the USA. Grant himself stated that it isn't hard. You just have to pay attention.

Best,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins



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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[Jim Bronson]

But does it go to 11?
On Dec 29, 2015 12:49 AM, "Benz, Sunnyvale, CA" 
wrote:

> It is a *logical* idea.
>
> Imagine if we didn't have the legacy baggage of pulling cable to downshift
> in the back. Wouldn't it make more sense if both front and rear derailleurs
> did the same (upshift or downshift) if a particular action was actuated
> (such as pull or release cable)? With rapid-rise (or Low normal), Shimano
> was just harmonizing front and rear derailleur actions so pulling cable
> (with DT, thumbs, barends & STI) will all result in upshifts. Sounds pretty
> logical to me and it should be easier to teach newbies too.
>
> I also seem to recall that one of the technical reasons for rapid-rise was
> to improve rear shifting. Apparently, the downshift-facilitating ramps on
> the HG cassettes work better when the chain is gently prodded by a spring,
> rather than getting ham-fisted with an overly eager rider.
>
> In any case, it's not a particularly hard skill to switch to. No shifts
> are truly critical for non-pros, so a mis-shift here or there isn't bad.
> One can always harmonize all Shimano-equipped bikes with rapid-rise rear
> derailleurs! :)
>
> Anyone remember the reverse shifting Sachs *front* derailleur?
>
>
> On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 11:28:37 AM UTC-8, Garth wrote:
>>
>>
>>  Rapid Rise was doomed before it even started !  If it was such a great
>> idea then why didn't they make all shifting that way, mtb and road ?  ...
>> ___ .  exactly .  Saying it was good for some and not the other
>> right there doomed it.  A solution to problem that didn't exist.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[Joe Bernard]

You should check it out. We're similar PBH and I would be on a 48 Hunq. I owned 
a 54 AHH which I never should have sold (cash crunch at the time). It fit great 
with Alba bars, and rode like the wind. They never come up in that size used, 
so get thee hence!

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[RBW] FS: Grand Bois Cypres Tires (< 300 miles), $75

[KTY]

Selling a pair of Grand Bois Cypres (700x32) with less than 300 miles of 
use. Regular, not extra light model. Tan sidewalls. 

These are great tires in great shape, aside from some darkening of the 
sidewalls from dirt. I've had them on my (too little used) Rambouillet for 
a year and love them. I got a pair of the Barlow Pass for xmas and plan to 
go with those for awhile. 

$75 shipped CONUS. Friends and family paypal. 

Contact me directly: kolbyt at gmail dot com.

Thx!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[ted]

Did your brakes have enough range of adjustment for the change from 26" to 
650B?

I'm actually a bit surprised that you are "noticeably slower on the hunq 
than on my go fast road bike" going up say Tunnel road. Do you notice the 
difference just by feel on your own, by timing it, by comparison with a 
regular riding partner? Is your position the same on both bikes? Same style 
bars? Same pedals? How many pounds lighter is the Gunnar comparing ready to 
ride bikes? How much do you and the bike ready to roll out the drive weigh? 
How much more stuff is on the Hunqapillar? What is your time up Tunnel road?

Getting from the Hunqapillar to an AHH is probably going to cost you some 
$$, at least as temporary outlay with some risk of permanence. The one near 
Alameda may be as good a fit as you see in some time. Complete bikes tend 
to be better bargains, by selling off all the extra parts after merging 
between your Hunqapillar and the AHH and selling the Hunqapillar as a frame 
fork and headset you might get close to breaking even. If your ambivalent 
about changing, it's likely not worth the trouble.



On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 10:58:22 AM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>
> All good questions! I actually have some 650b wheels left over from a Sam 
> I briefly owned and have been running those on the hunq, outfitted with 
> compass 42mm tires. I ran smart sam's on there for a long time and still 
> have them.
>
> I'm looking for something lighter that climbs better than the hunq. My 
> litmus test are a few climbs in Oakland including tunnel road. It is 
> noticeably slower on the hunq than on my go fast road bike (Gunnar), which 
> would be expected. However, given that the hunq was bought to be my primary 
> mountain bike, and is no longer serving that purpose, and is in fact seeing 
> way more road miles, my hope is that a more road oriented Rivendell would 
> make more sense. The hunqapillar is fine as it is, and if there is not 
> going to be noticeably faster than I may just stay with that. 
>
> But my initial thought process is that an AHH is comparable in price and 
> resale value to my hunq (while having all the fixings for racks, fenders, 
> kick stands, etc.), and being lighter and hopefully a little faster, would 
> be a good trade if there was one to be had. And I also have a 650b  wheel 
> set with 2 nice sets of tires that would fit it nicely. I'm also not really 
> looking to spend any money, hence the trade aspect of it.
>
> I feel like I've struck out on finding a 52 or 54 ahh at RBW to test, 
> maybe I need to go back and see what is there. This isn't an urgent thing 
> and I'm happy riding the hunq and keeping it a long time. But I am very AHH 
> curious ;)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:58 AM, ted  
> wrote:
>
> dstein,
>
> If you think the Hunqapillar and the Sam Hillborne ride the same you will 
> likely think the Sam and the Hilsen ride the same too.
> As you pointed out Grant has said the Sam and Hilsen are functionally 
> interchangeable, though there are differences between them.
>
> I haven't ridden a Hunqapillar much, but I do have a first generation 
> Bombadil and an AHH. For riding mostly roads I prefer the AHH. I think they 
> ride differently, with the AHH being more responsive and the Bombadil being 
> more stable. But it's possible that in a blind (if that were possible) test 
> with the same components and position on each frame I wouldn't be able to 
> tell the difference. 
>
> How would you like your next bike to seem different than your Hunqapillar? 
> What attributes would make a "better bike" seem better to you? 
>
> I think you live in the east bay, in which case it could be well worth 
> your while to bop over to RBW and test ride Hunqapillar, Hillborne, Hilsen, 
> Roadeo back to back to 
>
> Btw what tires do you have? Earlier you posted there were Smart Sams on 
> there, now Compass. Are your Compass tires Rat Trap Pass or a smaller size?
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 5:09:20 AM UTC-8, dstein wrote:
>>
>> I actually do have compass tires on there now ;)  And that is my fear. I 
>> felt the hunq and sam rode the same honestly and since i liked the hunq 
>> more i sold the sam. And I've heard the sam and ahh ride the same (grant's 
>> words).
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Clayton.sf  wrote:
>>
>>> Get some compass tires for your hunq- it will be much faster. If you 
>>> want really fast, look into skinny flexy tubing or some vintage 531 and 
>>> compass tires. The AHH likely won't be that huge of an upgrade.
>>>
>>> Clayton Scott
>>> SF, CA
>>>
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[RBW] FS: parting out a bike

[David Banzer]

Updated list. 

Prices include conUS shipping. PayPal Personal payment please.

Nitto B136 Randonneur Bar Setup - 44cm bar, 11cm Nitto Technomic stem (225mm 
height) 26.0mm clamp, Shimano non-aero brake levers, faded blue cloth tape - 
$90 shipped - will separate - $40 shipped for bars or stem - brake levers - $13 
shipped

27.2mm Seatpost - basic Kalloy post, scratched up - $10 shipped

Shimano Derailleurs - long cage rear, front triple, low end stuff but works 
great - $15 shipped

Soma B-Line Tires - 650b 38mm folding tired w/ Pasela tread - w/ 2 presta tubes 
- $65 shipped

Electra Bottle Cage - Nitto copy - $15 shipped 

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[RBW] Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Lungimsam]

Nice!
Enjoy!!
All silver just looks so good!

I got a Sunxcd Rd on my Bleriot because I wanted all silver and no black on the 
bike.
Micro shift FD all silver too.
I'm really enjoying them!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[Jim Bronson]

It's a Microshift R10.

The new Suntour XCD is similar but has a longer cage to support up to 34 in
the back.  Pretty sure Microshift makes the Suntour XCD stuff for them, it
looks just about identical save for the longer cage.
http://sunxcd.net/rearder/

The main difference other than the cage is the fact that the R10 is
available for one third of the cost.

The R10 is rated 28 max but looks like it would easily go to 32.  In the
picture it's in the small/small combo because no cables are attached to
either derailer.  I would never actually ride it that way though because my
wide-low double is actually an Ultegra 6503 triple with the big ring
removed in favor of a bash guard.  If I had a real double the chain angle
wouldn't be as extreme and that combo might be usable.  If one really
wanted to.
On Dec 29, 2015 3:00 PM, "Ryan Fleming" 
wrote:

> yuplotsa times and  usually they worked really well, too. That is a
> pretty derailleur...the older Suntour stuff was really nice too. Is that
> the new Suntour deralleur to shift a 10-cog cassette?
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 2:06:12 PM UTC-6, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>
>> I hope it shifts good.  It sure is pretty!
>>
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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/29/2015 08:18 PM, ted wrote:
Easy and hard are subjective assessments made by the person doing the 
work, but ...
I don't think it is accurate to say that "Rivendells are typically not 
really very well set up for fendering." They take fenders just fine. 
They all have room for fenders, they all have fender eyelets so you 
don't have to use p clamps, they all have chainstay bridges or 
kickstand plates that accommodate bolting a fender there.
Apparently some folks find using spacers hard. I don't, and I doubt I 
am alone in that view. The only thing I have ever encountered that 
really made putting fenders on a bike hard was there not being room 
for them.
I am a bit mystified by the fixation on equidistant bridges (or 
kickstand plates), and abhorrence of spacers some folks seem to have.
If one orders a custom built bike and feels strongly about such 
details then by all means make your preferences known and the builder 
should honor them. Otherwise, if the fenders fit stop whining.




I wonder - what are the fenders you use made of?  It's one thing to 
smush around a plastic fender to make it fit into the sort of 
irregularly shaped space you get with inconsistent mounting points -- 
just grab hold of it, yank in the direction you want and clamp it down 
-- but it's a whole different thing when they're made of aluminum and 
you have to alter the curve by spreading or squeezing the edges together 
by hand.


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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[ted]

I wonder what the fender material has to do with it since I never "just 
grab hold of it, yank in the direction you want and clamp it down".
I use a spacer to support the fender where I want it to get the fender line 
I want (as long as the frame is not in the way).
Is the use of spacers to adjust fit really beyond your comprehension, or 
are you being willfully obtuse?

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 7:10:11 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On 12/29/2015 08:18 PM, ted wrote:
>
> Easy and hard are subjective assessments made by the person doing the 
> work, but ... 
> I don't think it is accurate to say that "Rivendells are typically not 
> really very well set up for fendering." They take fenders just fine. They 
> all have room for fenders, they all have fender eyelets so you don't have 
> to use p clamps, they all have chainstay bridges or kickstand plates that 
> accommodate bolting a fender there.
> Apparently some folks find using spacers hard. I don't, and I doubt I am 
> alone in that view. The only thing I have ever encountered that really made 
> putting fenders on a bike hard was there not being room for them.  
> I am a bit mystified by the fixation on equidistant bridges (or kickstand 
> plates), and abhorrence of spacers some folks seem to have.
> If one orders a custom built bike and feels strongly about such details 
> then by all means make your preferences known and the builder should honor 
> them. Otherwise, if the fenders fit stop whining.
>
>
> I wonder - what are the fenders you use made of?  It's one thing to smush 
> around a plastic fender to make it fit into the sort of irregularly shaped 
> space you get with inconsistent mounting points -- just grab hold of it, 
> yank in the direction you want and clamp it down -- but it's a whole 
> different thing when they're made of aluminum and you have to alter the 
> curve by spreading or squeezing the edges together by hand.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Ever buy parts just because they're shiny?

[WETH]

Ron,
That's a beautiful bike.  I like the pedals.  What brand are they?
Thanks,
Erl

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[William deRosset]

Dear Will,

Expanding on my own post--is this a sign of senility? Anyway, 

I did want to point out that  the rear fender lines of early Rivendell 
designs aren't accidental. They are consistent with most non-constructeur 
builds of any era. There were a few Japanese bikes, a few now very 
influential French bikes, and a few British bikes that bucked this trend, 
but they were the exception, not ordinarily widely produced, and, 
significantly, ordinarily featured vertical dropouts. 

If you design around maximum "versatility", you build around horizontal 
dropouts (fixed wheel/singlespeed/internal hub gear/derailleur gears all 
work fine), and, if you maximize the tire clearance for a given 
bridge-mounted brake, then you end up with an offset chainstay bridge given 
the dropout configuration--bad fender line, but big tire clearance without 
deflating the rear tire. This is the bargain the early Rivendell designs 
made. You can do anything with them, they're lovingly built of the best 
materials, fantastically finished, and they maximized the stock technology 
of the mid-1990's.

Digression: I bet there is a lag from the widespread switch to vertical 
dropouts and capitializing on the improvement to fender alignment made 
possible by vertical dropouts. It sounds like Grant's designs caught up 
sometime after the early bikes (including my own Heron) and the early 
Atlantis were designed.

This switch to vertical dropouts resulted from a push from the MTB world to 
shorten chainstays, one initiated byGrant Petersen's MB designs. It was 
enthusiastically picked up by the 22mm-max-tire-crit-racing bike designers 
that finally drove "road bikes" into a ditch that Grant worked hard to 
avoid with his road-going designs, before leading/following his demographic 
into lovely cruisers and non-suspension light mountain bikes. "Gravel 
bikes" and most cyclocross bikes, honestly, are probably the non-racer's 
commercially-available road-bike answer to the mass-market road-racing 
bike, which started to fall into the specialization trap starting sometime 
before I rode road bikes thirty-five years ago, and has stayed there, 
immobilized by strictures of "lighter, stiffer, and more aero", and the 
"purposeful" racing aesthetic of really tight tire clearances. Modern 
racing bikes are a ball to drive, but they're not practical machines for 
most of us. Moving on

In fact, many builders though the mid 2000's, including Waterford, just 
specified a standard cast bit for the chainstay bridge, which, depending on 
the chainstay length and the chainstay configuration, would be located in 
different places relative to the rear axle, but well away from the arc of 
an inflated tire as it was removed from a (hypothetical) horizontal 
dropout. Basically, that one, even if a threaded boss was added for a 
fender, had a go/no go spec, and users of fenders could work out how to 
make up the difference on their own time, and if the buyer isn't insisting 
on more closely-specified design, or didn't know to ask, then why torture 
your builder to locate that bridge in a given spot--about an "unimportant" 
detail?  "It has clearance, clarence"

With vertical dropouts and braze-on brakes, there really isn't any good 
functional reason (there are production reasons, but they're minor if you 
care) not to place the bridges equidistant from the wheel axis, and there 
really isn't any good reason not to include a threaded boss perpendicular 
to the fender--unless it isn't a design consideration or unless you 
specifically don't want fenders on the bike. Even so, basic good design 
puts the support structure in the right places.  For example, my own Road 
Sport, built by Waterford under contract to Boulder Bicycles, includes 
equidistant bridges and would fit fenders and its design tire fine, even 
though the bike was intended *not* to accept fenders by its maker (no 
eyelets, no bridge bosses. Mine ended up with one bridge boss, due to a 
prototyping error...) due to the potential horror of toe clip overlap 
potential on racing bikes.

Best Regards,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 8:36:15 PM UTC-7, William deRosset wrote:
>
> Dear Steve,
>
> Sure. The Longstaff was built to carry fenders full-time. The basic 
> Rivendell design templates were adapted/lifted from Bridgestone and Schwinn 
> Paramount production concepts and standard American build practice. These 
> are not bad roots, but they are grounded in a less-specified build concept, 
> that of frame+wheels+parts+accessories vs. integrated design.
>
> The Rivendells products I have used were built with horizontal dropouts, 
> and used a forward-biased fitting for the chainstay bridge as a result. 
> They were built to clear a design tire when inflated, and fender line was 
> apparently not a significant priority. Having room for them was an avowed 
> concern. 
>
> Besides, the Rivendell sales literature ppked a bit of fun at the 

Re: [RBW] Re: Interesting Simple One mod into "touring/cx" bike

[Christopher Murray]

I was referring to the bike in the original post. I don't understand all the 
work put into adding a derailer to a QB/SO. I have a QB and would love make it 
a 3 speed!

Cheers!
Chris

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Re: [RBW] Rear fender mounting. Was: Christmas Clementine

[William deRosset]

Dear Steve,

Sure. The Longstaff was built to carry fenders full-time. The basic Rivendell 
design templates were adapted/lifted from Bridgestone and Schwinn Paramount 
production concepts and standard American build practice. These are not bad 
roots, but they are grounded in a less-specified build concept, that of 
frame+wheels+parts+accessories vs. integrated design.

The Rivendells products I have used were built with horizontal dropouts, and 
used a forward-biased fitting for the chainstay bridge as a result. They were 
built to clear a design tire when inflated, and fender line was apparently not 
a significant priority. Having room for them was an avowed concern. 

Besides, the Rivendell sales literature ppked a bit of fun at the Honjo fenders 
in favor of Esges, and made specific reference to the difficulties of Honjo 
setup.
 Best Regards,
Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

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[RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[ted]

Odd, I have always thought the now standard arrangement was perfectly 
logical.
You pull on the cable to move to a bigger cog/rig with either derailer, aka 
you always pull on the lever to force the chain uphill.
If you grasp how gears work, then what going to a bigger or smaller 
cog/ring is going to do to your mechanical advantage is perfectly logical 
too.
Always made perfect sense to me.

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 10:49:14 PM UTC-8, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
wrote:
>
> It is a *logical* idea.
>
> Imagine if we didn't have the legacy baggage of pulling cable to downshift 
> in the back. Wouldn't it make more sense if both front and rear derailleurs 
> did the same (upshift or downshift) if a particular action was actuated 
> (such as pull or release cable)? With rapid-rise (or Low normal), Shimano 
> was just harmonizing front and rear derailleur actions so pulling cable 
> (with DT, thumbs, barends & STI) will all result in upshifts. Sounds pretty 
> logical to me and it should be easier to teach newbies too.
>
> I also seem to recall that one of the technical reasons for rapid-rise was 
> to improve rear shifting. Apparently, the downshift-facilitating ramps on 
> the HG cassettes work better when the chain is gently prodded by a spring, 
> rather than getting ham-fisted with an overly eager rider.
>
> In any case, it's not a particularly hard skill to switch to. No shifts 
> are truly critical for non-pros, so a mis-shift here or there isn't bad. 
> One can always harmonize all Shimano-equipped bikes with rapid-rise rear 
> derailleurs! :)
>
> Anyone remember the reverse shifting Sachs *front* derailleur?
>
>
> On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 11:28:37 AM UTC-8, Garth wrote:
>>
>>
>>  Rapid Rise was doomed before it even started !  If it was such a great 
>> idea then why didn't they make all shifting that way, mtb and road ?  ... 
>> ___ .  exactly .  Saying it was good for some and not the other 
>> right there doomed it.  A solution to problem that didn't exist. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[Joe Bernard]

That's how it works in my head, too, Ted. I grew up on friction 10-speeds, so 
my first relationship with shifters was pulling up to bigger cogs, pushing down 
to smaller. This made perfect sense to us who learned that shifting was moving 
a chain around with our hands. But there's a whole generation who relate to 
shifting as "click that thing there and the gear changes." For them it may make 
more sense to have the clicky things use the same paddles for easier and 
harder. I doubt I could ever get used to it..my brain is locked on following 
the chain to bigger or smaller cogs/rings.

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[RBW] Re: What stem?

[Tim Wood]

Hey Keith, thanks for posting those pics. Btw, Looks like a nice piece of 
property you got there - enjoyed the view!!!  Much whiter then over here!

i think I've figured out that a 1 to 2cm stem deduction from the boscos will 
give me the position I am after. I always feel like the boscos come too far in 
to me, especially while sharp turning. I am also constantly grabbing ahead of 
the break lever so I can stand to loose some reach from the bar end. 

I did a nice 40k ride 2 days ago, completely in the the rain/sleet/snow and had 
a 12km stretch of riverside flats with a headwind. I was grabbing the Bosco at 
the front, ahead of the bull horns(?) and it was quite helpful in staying out 
of the wind.  I can see a similar position on the albas, in the "humps" but 
they appear to be 2 or more cm ahead of where the Bosco front is.  A 1 cm 
reduction for me will make that area useable. 

Have you tried flipping the albas to get lower?  

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[RBW] OT: C Coincidence

[islaysteve]

Last night I watched an episode of Modern Marvels on the History Channel 
about the incredible construction project to "widen" the Panama Canal 
accomodate the larger super container ships.  It wasn't until they were 
showing how the 100 ft-high steel lock gates were constructed and moved 
(from Italy!) that I realized that earlier in the day I had been walking 
along a 180-year-old canal which had thick wood gates and was operated by 
men and mules.  It was a bit of a moment, maybe you had to be there!

Riv content:  I was checking out the condition of the towpath from 
Vioette's Lock northward for a ride (hopefully) later this week; and 
getting some exercise.  I will ride my Bleriot.  Also, near the end of the 
show, someone was talking about how the larger canal will change worldwide 
commerce.  Meaning I suppose, that more goods from Asia will be shipped 
directly to our East Coast, rather than shipping to the West and traveling 
overland to the East.  (And vice versa for European goods.)  Since some of 
Riv's goods come from Taiwan, and a great deal of other bicycles and 
bicycle components also come from Taiwan and other Asian countries, I 
wonder how this may affect the industry that we are all concerned with 
here.  
Cheers, Steve

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Re: [RBW] Christmas Clementine

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

It may be vastly better, but I have to report never having had an issue 
with the bracket style mount. Nevertheless, since I do not have that 
option, I seek advice. What type of bolt head do people use so as to create 
the least protrusion in the middle of the inside of the fender? Pudge, what 
did you use for the Clementine above? Did you use a leather washer between 
the fender and what looks like a long aluminum spacer?  (The other nice 
thing about the bracket besides no protruding hardware inside the fender is 
it gives you a bit of latitude in adjusting the fender line at this contact 
point, both laterally and vertically. With the vastly better option, you 
need to figure it out and measure twice, cut once.)

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 8:08:42 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> It is vastly better than using that little clamp on bracket.  It in fact 
> *is* "ideal."
>

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[RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[Matt B.]

 

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 1:49:14 AM UTC-5, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
wrote:
>
>
>
> Anyone remember the reverse shifting Sachs *front* derailleur?
>
>
I had a reverse-shifting suntour front derailleur on a Centurion once.  
Regarding Shimano RDs, I have been using rapid-rise for years now (with a 
normal FD) including a long tour across N.A. with it, and when I heard they 
had gone out of production I bought a backup.I like that it downshifts 
when bounced out of gear on bumpy trails. 

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Re: [RBW] Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/29/2015 09:34 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
It may be vastly better, but I have to report never having had an 
issue with the bracket style mount. Nevertheless, since I do not have 
that option, I seek advice. What type of bolt head do people use so as 
to create the least protrusion in the middle of the inside of the fender?


Something like this is nice:





Leather washer goes between outside of fender and seat stay.

Pudge, what did you use for the Clementine above? Did you use a 
leather washer between the fender and what looks like a long aluminum 
spacer?  (The other nice thing about the bracket besides no protruding 
hardware inside the fender is it gives you a bit of latitude in 
adjusting the fender line at this contact point, both laterally and 
vertically. With the vastly better option, you need to figure it out 
and measure twice, cut once.)


You have to attach a bracket to the fender, and either you bolt the 
bracket to the fender, in which case the hardware to do that protrudes 
inside the fender, or you clamp it around the edges and no matter how 
tightly you do that it can (and as these things go, if it can it will) 
move over time, giving rise to rattles and changing the fender line.  
What's more, a bracket can't be as solid a mount as directly screwing it 
into the seat stay bridge or to an eye bolt inside the fork crown.  
That, plus the fact that it looks much better without brackets, is why 
"vastly better."


As for "figure it out and measure it twice," that is how it is with 
metal fenders.  It's much easier now than it was 10 years ago, since 
most metal fenders of this type now come pre-drilled for the stays. Back 
in the day, they never did, and you had to mount, mark, remove, drill, 
reinstall, mark, remove, drill, reinstall etc., several times.  Even 
with brackets, to a large extent this is still the way it is.  You can't 
do all your measuring at one time, because once you mount the first 
mount things change.  It's a Zen kind of thing that requires patience 
and zero sense of urgency: it will take however long it takes, and it 
cannot be hurried.




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Re: [RBW] Re: Rapid Rise Rear Der

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/29/2015 01:49 AM, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA wrote:


Anyone remember the reverse shifting Sachs /front/ derailleur?


No, but I certainly remember the backwards-acting Sun Tour front 
derailleurs.



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Re: [RBW] Christmas Clementine

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/28/2015 11:46 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
Been meaning to ask, the Clementine is the first bike I have owned 
with the seat stay bridge having no brake or fender hole, but rather a 
hole that faces the ground. I assume I get the other two attachment 
points lined up, then drill a hole through the fender, and use a bolt 
with a flat head for the inside of the fender and whatever spacer 
required. Though I guess this way is more secure, ti seems less than 
ideal, and I almost would prefer the little clamp on bracket that I 
use on my other fendered bicycles.


It is vastly better than using that little clamp on bracket.  It in fact 
/is/ "ideal."


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Re: [RBW] Re: Possible WTT 48cm Hunqapillar for AHH

[David Stein]

I actually do have compass tires on there now ;)  And that is my fear. I
felt the hunq and sam rode the same honestly and since i liked the hunq
more i sold the sam. And I've heard the sam and ahh ride the same (grant's
words).

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Clayton.sf  wrote:

> Get some compass tires for your hunq- it will be much faster. If you want
> really fast, look into skinny flexy tubing or some vintage 531 and compass
> tires. The AHH likely won't be that huge of an upgrade.
>
> Clayton Scott
> SF, CA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Sunrace 'one at a time'

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/28/2015 10:43 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

I gave up on bar-ends for Albas.*At 53*  I'm officially tired of jamming those 
things into my knees ;)



cm, you mean?

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