[RBW] Re: WTT: Gilles Berthoud Aspin (Natural) for (

[J]

Dark brown Berthoud would work as well. Also I meant B17 Special Titanium. 
I need an editor.

On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 1:23:14 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> PMed 
>
> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 7:30:11 PM UTC-8 J wrote:
>
>> Howdy,
>> I'd like to trade my Gilles Berthoud Aspin in (Natural) for an Aspin in 
>> (Black) or B17 Special in (Black). The leather has not broken in/softened 
>> for me yet, at least not as well as my Brooks(s). I'm 165lbs. It's a bit 
>> lighter in color, less red than the photos, on a sunny day. 
>>
>> Half of the messages from the groups tend to go to spam so if I don't get 
>> back to you same day, try sending again.
>> thanks
>> J
>>
>> [image: 52530850469_eb88a8de4c_c.jpg]
>> [image: 52531040235_0310a81f5b_c.jpg]
>> [image: 52530099782_944e82bc34_c.jpg]
>> [image: 52530099747_6346fbf6b4_c.jpg]
>> [image: 52530567701_56568b3ed7_c.jpg]
>> [image: 52530567671_7d9abc8205_c.jpg]
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: WTT: Gilles Berthoud Aspin (Natural) for (

[Joe Bernard]

PMed 

On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 7:30:11 PM UTC-8 J wrote:

> Howdy,
> I'd like to trade my Gilles Berthoud Aspin in (Natural) for an Aspin in 
> (Black) or B17 Special in (Black). The leather has not broken in/softened 
> for me yet, at least not as well as my Brooks(s). I'm 165lbs. It's a bit 
> lighter in color, less red than the photos, on a sunny day. 
>
> Half of the messages from the groups tend to go to spam so if I don't get 
> back to you same day, try sending again.
> thanks
> J
>
> [image: 52530850469_eb88a8de4c_c.jpg]
> [image: 52531040235_0310a81f5b_c.jpg]
> [image: 52530099782_944e82bc34_c.jpg]
> [image: 52530099747_6346fbf6b4_c.jpg]
> [image: 52530567701_56568b3ed7_c.jpg]
> [image: 52530567671_7d9abc8205_c.jpg]
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cockpit Quandaries - Friction bar ends for a new rider

[R. Alexis]

Paul,

Sorry to be late to the party. 

That Specialized looks to be in decent condition. My thought was to lean 
into replacing just what is needed. In this case I would go with replacing 
the bars and shifters. The derailleurs that are on there probably will do 
just fine. Getting some 7 speed thumb shifters like   Shimano SL-TX30 
Tourney Thumb Shifter Set - 7 Speed or  SHIMANO TOURNEY SL-TZ500 THUMB 
SHIFTERS as a set would work as a good replacement for the Rapid Fire 
shifters. Even doing Grip Shifters with a macro adjust front will be more 
intuitive. 

Is there a reason to swap out the standard cantilever brakes for linear 
pull ones? I would just as soon adjust then totally swap out. 

I have a set of Shimano 7 speed GS or whatever shifters. Have several sets 
I bought years ago from a local bike shop that closed. Modified a couple to 
correct design flaw in the cable stop. Drilled and threaded one for barrel 
adjusters and the other just used a stepped ferrule housing end. 

Thanks,

Reginald Alexis



On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-6 Paul Clifton wrote:

> What do y'all think about putting friction bar end shifters on Albatross 
> bars for a new rider?
>
> I'm just looking for opinions since I'm stumped on this build.
>
> My options are more-or-less indexed or friction 9 speed Microshift 
> thumbies, friction bar ends, or buy some rapid fire shifters.
>
> I (selfishly) want to keep the thumbies for a different build for myself. 
> And I'd have to buy a set of rapid fire shifters - which has its own 
> problems (derrailer/cassette mismatching ...).
>
> So I want to know - Do you think a new rider would be irritated by 
> friction bar ends?
>
> Here's the long story:
>
> I have a very short friend (4'11" - PBH is 72). If money and availability 
> were no object, I'd buy her a 45cm Clem and be done with it, but I can't do 
> that myself, and she'd never spend that kind of money on a bike (at least 
> not until she catches the biking bug from this bike I'm building her since 
> it'll be the first bike that's ever fit her).
>
> So my goal is to build a bike that fits her and is so fun to ride that 
> she'll want to ride bikes all the time and eventually just buy a Clem.
>
> I finally found a frame that will fit her. It's a tiny (41 cm) 90s 
> Hardrock step through with 26" wheels and Shimano 200ES drive train, which 
> is low end 90s 7-speed stuff. It has a triple crank that I will leave in 
> place (buttery smooth even after 30 years). Both derailers are in good 
> shape, but they're low end 90s stuff, so I doubt they feel great, but I bet 
> they'd work with friction just fine. It came with junky old rapid fire 
> shifters, so those are definitely getting replaced.
>
> I'm planning to put Albatross bars on this bike, so my quandary is about 
> the drivetrain. I'd like to use as many parts from my bin as possible, but 
> I can't decide which combo is gonna work best and be the most fun for a 
> timid rider. Buying new parts is no big deal, but I don't see the point in 
> spending a bunch of money in the event she doesn't ride it much, so here 
> are the relevant parts from my bin:
>
>- Rear wheel options - 7 speed cassette wheel with good cassette. 
>8/9/10 speed wheel with no cassette.
>- Shifters -Microshift 9 speed thumbies (I kinda want to keep these 
>for another build). Shimano bar ends that no longer index.
>- Derailers - New Altus 8 speed RD. Old Sora 9 speed RD. Shimano 600ES 
>7 speed RD.
>
> So here are my options:
>
>
>1. Keep the old 7 speed stuff. Friction bar ends or friction thumbies.
>2. Buy a new 8 speed cassette. Use the Altus RD from my box. Friction 
>thumbies or bar ends.
>3. Buy a 9 speed cassette and a 9 speed derailer. Indexed Microshift 
>thumbies.
>4. Buy a 9 speed cassette, derailer, and rapid fire shifter. The 
>Sunrace 9 speed stuff comes out to about $60 for the whole set up.
>
> I have a new 3x rapid fire shifter for the front, but I hate how those 
> shift, and I don't think I have a matching derailer - I can test the 200GS 
> FD that is on there, but I personally think friction front is the way to 
> go, and I definitely prefer a bar end for that over a thumbie, because the 
> leverage feels better to me.
>
> Since bar ends are just such a joy to use and have so much leverage, I 
> suspect the Altus derailer and a 8 or 9 speed cassette with a friction bar 
> end will be fantastic for her, but I'd love some second opinions, and since 
> it's winter, I'm sure there are plenty out there, so feel free to make blue 
> sky suggestions :)
>
> Here's the bike before I tore it down to grease everything[image: 
> signal-2022-09-20-09-24-24-645.jpg]
>
> Thanks,
> Paul in AR
>

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[RBW] Re: What dual short/long pull brake levers are out there?

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

I love my Avid speed dials, and they're inexpensive.
https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/bl-sd-7-a1
-Kai

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 5:42:43 PM UTC-5 esoter...@gmail.com wrote:

> Howdy all,
>
> I'm in need of a matching pair of brake levers that are interchangeable 
> between short pull and long pull. Because of a front rack non-compatibility 
> issue with my current canti brakes, I'll have to use a v-brake in front, 
> but I'd to keep the canti brake in the rear.
>
> I'm aware of the Shimano BLR780 which Riv sells, but ideally I'd like 
> something with a longer lever body. Does anyone know of any other levers, 
> by Shimano or any other brand, that has the criteria that I'm looking for? 
> Thanks,
>
> ~Mark
> Raleigh, NC
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Book recommendations for learning how to build up a bike

[Eric Floden]

A few years ago I found a very nice book by an English cyclist who visited
several manufacturers (Chris King? Phil?) as he sought to asemble bits for
his upcoming build. Can I remember it? Nope...

Will go through my library listing later today in hopes I can find it

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cockpit Quandaries - Friction bar ends for a new rider

[esoterica etc]

> On Nov 28, 2022, at 15:14, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes, my opinions are opinions. In my opinion. 
>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 9:35:53 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>> But that's the point, Joe. If you learn the skill -- it's not rocket 
>> science, for chrissake! -- you don't hunt, you just shift accurately. This 
>> assumes that your drivetrain components are basically decent in quality and 
>> condition.
>> 
>> As for choosing the easier method and thinking the slightly harder method -- 
>> requiring some little practice to acquire a skill -- is silly, well that's 
>> one person's choice and opinion, but not another's.
>> 
>>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 3:44 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>> ... I think hunting around for the next cog just because you can is silly, 
>>> the clicks work. 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cockpit Quandaries - Friction bar ends for a new rider

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, my opinions are opinions. In my opinion. 
On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 9:35:53 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> But that's the point, Joe. If you learn the skill -- it's not rocket 
> science, for chrissake! -- you don't hunt, you just shift accurately. This 
> assumes that your drivetrain components are basically decent in quality and 
> condition.
>
> As for choosing the easier method and thinking the slightly harder method 
> -- requiring some little practice to acquire a skill -- is silly, well 
> that's one person's choice and opinion, but not another's.
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 3:44 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> ... I think hunting around for the next cog just because you can is 
>> silly, the clicks work. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Book recommendations for learning how to build up a bike

[Will M]

Stephanie,

There is also Jenni Gwiazdowski's (2017) *How to Build a Bike: A Simple 
Guide to Making Your Own Ride*, but I have not read it.  On repairs, I have 
Tom Cuthbertson's (1998) *Anybody's Bike Book: A Comprehensive Manual of 
Bike Repairs *but find it lacking (intended for the novice).  When I built 
up my Rambouillet from scratch, I found Sheldon Brown's website 
 plus YouTube / Park Tools websites the best 
resources.

Helpful?
Will M
NYC


On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 10:43:56 AM UTC-5 sin...@msn.com wrote:

> The first bike I built by myself was my first Rivendell--the Romulus. I 
> remember going over to Riv to collect the frameset and the parts. At the 
> time I mainly relied on Park Tools' website. Later, I got these two books 
> from a garage sale and used them as I became a more proficient amateur 
> mechanic. I don't use them anymore as now I look up tips online when i have 
> a more obscure issue to deal with or a new technology to learn (like when I 
> got my first disc brake bike two years ago).
>
> If you want I can mail you these books as a start!
>
> Franklyn
> Berkeley, CA
>
> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 7:08:04 AM UTC-8 Stephanie A. wrote:
>
>> As I continue to change things on my current bike, I've realize that what 
>> I really want is a book that helps me understand building up and 
>> maintaining a bike. YouTube videos and helpful websites are great. I'm so 
>> thankful that they exist. But my brain craves a single, cohesively written 
>> text I can easily read through and turn to when I'm thinking about changing 
>> shifters, selecting different drivetrain parts, understanding geometry, 
>> taking apart bikes, wiring, and making adjustments. I really only see 
>> myself dealing with non-fixie commuters and touring bikes.
>>
>> I found a book online called *How to Build a Bike (in a Weekend)* by 
>> Alan Anderson with illustrations by Lee John Phillips. Has anyone used 
>> this? Does anyone have other suggestions?
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Widest tires on green Quickbeam?

[Will Millhiser]

My experience too, Eric; thanks.

Perhaps the question I should be asking: what's the widest *fender* that
Quickbeamers reliably run without too much heroics in home-surgery fender
modifications?  --Will

On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 2:29 PM Eric Daume  wrote:

> In my experience (not on a QB) 45mm fenders over 37 or 38mm tires might
> work, but it’s very fiddly. A minor bump or misadjustment and something
> will rub.
>
> A good rule of thumb is max tire = fender -10mm, so 35mm tires for 45mm
> fenders.
>
> Eric
>
> On Monday, November 28, 2022, Will M  wrote:
>
>> Hi all.  Revisiting an oldish thread.  What's the biggest tire you
>> Quickbeamers are running with SKS P45 longboard feders?  I have an orange
>> 62cm Quickbeam and wanted to try 700x38mm tires with my P45s.  It's pretty
>> clear that the Quickbeam can take 'em.  It's less clear if the P45
>> longboards can.  (Websites such as REI
>> ,
>> etc., say max tire width = 37mm, yet RBW says
>>  38mm).
>> Thoughts?  Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Will M
>> -NYC
>>
>> On Thursday, August 6, 2009 at 11:53:35 PM UTC-4 grant wrote:
>>
>>> You can measure the chainstay width, inside-2-inside, at the point where
>>> the tire passes, then figure howevermany millimeters you're comfortable
>>> with for clearance (four is a fine minimum-and the Japanese standard, Times
>>> 2 that's 8.). Then do the negative arithmetic, and blammo--there's your max
>>> tire.
>>> (I know those who ride less than four. if the tire is big and cushy, the
>>> wheel whill probably stay true forever. Why would it not?)
>>>
>>> G
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Andrew Janjigian 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 RBWers -

 I have 35mm tires on my green QB that need replacing. I'm thinking
 about ditching the fenders and going AWAP. Anyone know whether 40mm will
 fit? It certainly looks like I have at least 5mm to spare.

 Thanks
 AJ



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>>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cockpit Quandaries - Friction bar ends for a new rider

[Will Boericke]

I agree with Patrick; my wife was never so happy as when I set up her bike
1x and she just had to use one shifter.  She rides mostly for errands and
still occasionally forgets which direction "makes it harder".  As for
friction, put me in the indexed camp.  I like the click-and-it goes
simplicity and am willing to deal with aligning derailleur hangers more
often to get it.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 1:46 PM Chris Cameron  wrote:

> It wasn't until 2019 that I switched over to biking after running for a
> number of years due to issues with my knees creeping up.  Anyway, I hadn't
> been on a bike really since I was a kid, so I grabbed a complete Surly
> Cross-Check, which came with bar-end shifters.  After about a year of
> riding, I got caught up in the brifter movement and switched everything
> over to a 1X setup with Rival 1 shifters.  While I enjoyed it for a bit,
> I'm glad to say that I switched back over to using a friction thumb shifter
> this year.  There *really* is something about friction shifting that just
> feels good in the hands once you get the hang of it.
>
> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:13:59 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> My vote would be for friction bar-ends because it's groovy, fun, looks
>> cool, feels great. Anyone can learn it, nothing to it.
>>
>> You learn friction trimming and shifting quickly. Just a few anecdotal
>> case studies: I did, my partner did (she is not an avid or frequent rider),
>> my pal Glenn (who I just built a bike for) did, too. Way back when Grant
>> wrote that his nine-year-old daughter learned it no problem without any
>> input from him (look for it in one of the many friction celebration
>> articles in earlier Riv catalogs).
>>
>> I rode Albatross bars with Shimano bar-ends and Silver 1 levers for about
>> a year. Very good setup!
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 5:44:56 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I don't want to learn how to shoot a rifle and don't use friction
>>> shifting for the rear even though I know how to do it. I think hunting
>>> around for the next cog just because you can is silly, the clicks work.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 2:35:18 PM UTC-8 Tom Palmer wrote:
>>>
 I am with Garth on this. Albatross and bar end shifters in friction
 mode are easy peasy as long as the parts match or pretty close. My new
 Platypus has 10 speed microshift bar ends, basic Deore deraiiler, mid range
 10 speed cassette, and basic Sram 10 speed chain o Albatross bars.
 Shifting smooth and easy and if is chain chattering, move the shifter a
 little. The new rider will learn to understand the way of shifting. They
 also learn the value of not shifting on a small rise and hammering a bit to
 keep momentum.
 Similar (in my mind) to teaching someone to shoot a rifle. You do not
 start with a magazine fed semi-automatic like a Ruger 10/22. They quickly
 find firing rapidly, emptying the rifle id fun. They miss the basics of
 lining up the sight, breath out and hold, relax, aim, shoot. The process of
 racking a bolt for the next shot, or reloading a single shot, resets the
 process of accurate shooting.  Sorry for the long explanation, but rings
 true to me.
 Tom Palmer
 Twin Lake, MI

 On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 5:07:57 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote:

> Give your friend friction shifters first for goodness sake. Don't sell
> them short in their abilities, people don't need or want to be treated as
> incapable. You don't have to buy expensive thumbshifters, Sunrace SLM10 
> and
> Falcon are ratcheting ones for $10-15 and include cables. The ratcheting
> mechanism is plastic, but for casual use they work just fine. I have bot.
> They feel quite nice in the hand and can be used on both road and mtb 
> bars.
>
> I liken this to learning to drive. I learned with a manual
> transmission in high school drivers ed via a simulator trailer we had. 
> When
> I actually got into a car with a manual tranny it was easy as pie. Should 
> I
> have been "spared" the chance I'd be incapable of driving a car and
> shifting a manual transmission at the same time ?  Let them shift, let 
> them
> mis-take a few. With manual shifting these are easily corrected. When
> indexed shifting goes wonky and you have no idea how shifting works in the
> first place, you're helpless as you have idea why the thingy on the
> handlebar doesn't work or even what it does.
>
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Re: [RBW] Widest tires on green Quickbeam?

[Eric Daume]

In my experience (not on a QB) 45mm fenders over 37 or 38mm tires might
work, but it’s very fiddly. A minor bump or misadjustment and something
will rub.

A good rule of thumb is max tire = fender -10mm, so 35mm tires for 45mm
fenders.

Eric

On Monday, November 28, 2022, Will M  wrote:

> Hi all.  Revisiting an oldish thread.  What's the biggest tire you
> Quickbeamers are running with SKS P45 longboard feders?  I have an orange
> 62cm Quickbeam and wanted to try 700x38mm tires with my P45s.  It's pretty
> clear that the Quickbeam can take 'em.  It's less clear if the P45
> longboards can.  (Websites such as REI
> ,
> etc., say max tire width = 37mm, yet RBW says
>  38mm).
> Thoughts?  Thanks in advance.
>
> Will M
> -NYC
>
> On Thursday, August 6, 2009 at 11:53:35 PM UTC-4 grant wrote:
>
>> You can measure the chainstay width, inside-2-inside, at the point where
>> the tire passes, then figure howevermany millimeters you're comfortable
>> with for clearance (four is a fine minimum-and the Japanese standard, Times
>> 2 that's 8.). Then do the negative arithmetic, and blammo--there's your max
>> tire.
>> (I know those who ride less than four. if the tire is big and cushy, the
>> wheel whill probably stay true forever. Why would it not?)
>>
>> G
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Andrew Janjigian 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> RBWers -
>>>
>>> I have 35mm tires on my green QB that need replacing. I'm thinking about
>>> ditching the fenders and going AWAP. Anyone know whether 40mm will fit? It
>>> certainly looks like I have at least 5mm to spare.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> AJ
>>>
>>>
>>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Widest tires on green Quickbeam?

[Will M]

Hi all.  Revisiting an oldish thread.  What's the biggest tire you 
Quickbeamers are running with SKS P45 longboard feders?  I have an orange 
62cm Quickbeam and wanted to try 700x38mm tires with my P45s.  It's pretty 
clear that the Quickbeam can take 'em.  It's less clear if the P45 
longboards can.  (Websites such as REI 
,
 
etc., say max tire width = 37mm, yet RBW says 
 38mm).  
Thoughts?  Thanks in advance.

Will M
-NYC 

On Thursday, August 6, 2009 at 11:53:35 PM UTC-4 grant wrote:

> You can measure the chainstay width, inside-2-inside, at the point where 
> the tire passes, then figure howevermany millimeters you're comfortable 
> with for clearance (four is a fine minimum-and the Japanese standard, Times 
> 2 that's 8.). Then do the negative arithmetic, and blammo--there's your max 
> tire. 
> (I know those who ride less than four. if the tire is big and cushy, the 
> wheel whill probably stay true forever. Why would it not?)
>
> G
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Andrew Janjigian  
> wrote:
>
>> RBWers -
>>
>> I have 35mm tires on my green QB that need replacing. I'm thinking about 
>> ditching the fenders and going AWAP. Anyone know whether 40mm will fit? It 
>> certainly looks like I have at least 5mm to spare. 
>>
>> Thanks
>> AJ
>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cockpit Quandaries - Friction bar ends for a new rider

[Chris Cameron]

It wasn't until 2019 that I switched over to biking after running for a 
number of years due to issues with my knees creeping up.  Anyway, I hadn't 
been on a bike really since I was a kid, so I grabbed a complete Surly 
Cross-Check, which came with bar-end shifters.  After about a year of 
riding, I got caught up in the brifter movement and switched everything 
over to a 1X setup with Rival 1 shifters.  While I enjoyed it for a bit, 
I'm glad to say that I switched back over to using a friction thumb shifter 
this year.  There *really* is something about friction shifting that just 
feels good in the hands once you get the hang of it.

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:13:59 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> My vote would be for friction bar-ends because it's groovy, fun, looks 
> cool, feels great. Anyone can learn it, nothing to it. 
>
> You learn friction trimming and shifting quickly. Just a few anecdotal 
> case studies: I did, my partner did (she is not an avid or frequent rider), 
> my pal Glenn (who I just built a bike for) did, too. Way back when Grant 
> wrote that his nine-year-old daughter learned it no problem without any 
> input from him (look for it in one of the many friction celebration 
> articles in earlier Riv catalogs). 
>
> I rode Albatross bars with Shimano bar-ends and Silver 1 levers for about 
> a year. Very good setup!
>
>
> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 5:44:56 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I don't want to learn how to shoot a rifle and don't use friction 
>> shifting for the rear even though I know how to do it. I think hunting 
>> around for the next cog just because you can is silly, the clicks work. 
>>
>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 2:35:18 PM UTC-8 Tom Palmer wrote:
>>
>>> I am with Garth on this. Albatross and bar end shifters in friction mode 
>>> are easy peasy as long as the parts match or pretty close. My new Platypus 
>>> has 10 speed microshift bar ends, basic Deore deraiiler, mid range 10 speed 
>>> cassette, and basic Sram 10 speed chain o Albatross bars.
>>> Shifting smooth and easy and if is chain chattering, move the shifter a 
>>> little. The new rider will learn to understand the way of shifting. They 
>>> also learn the value of not shifting on a small rise and hammering a bit to 
>>> keep momentum. 
>>> Similar (in my mind) to teaching someone to shoot a rifle. You do not 
>>> start with a magazine fed semi-automatic like a Ruger 10/22. They quickly 
>>> find firing rapidly, emptying the rifle id fun. They miss the basics of 
>>> lining up the sight, breath out and hold, relax, aim, shoot. The process of 
>>> racking a bolt for the next shot, or reloading a single shot, resets the 
>>> process of accurate shooting.  Sorry for the long explanation, but rings 
>>> true to me.
>>> Tom Palmer
>>> Twin Lake, MI
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 5:07:57 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>>>
 Give your friend friction shifters first for goodness sake. Don't sell 
 them short in their abilities, people don't need or want to be treated as 
 incapable. You don't have to buy expensive thumbshifters, Sunrace SLM10 
 and 
 Falcon are ratcheting ones for $10-15 and include cables. The ratcheting 
 mechanism is plastic, but for casual use they work just fine. I have bot. 
 They feel quite nice in the hand and can be used on both road and mtb 
 bars. 

 I liken this to learning to drive. I learned with a manual transmission 
 in high school drivers ed via a simulator trailer we had. When I actually 
 got into a car with a manual tranny it was easy as pie. Should I have been 
 "spared" the chance I'd be incapable of driving a car and shifting a 
 manual 
 transmission at the same time ?  Let them shift, let them mis-take a few. 
 With manual shifting these are easily corrected. When indexed shifting 
 goes 
 wonky and you have no idea how shifting works in the first place, you're 
 helpless as you have idea why the thingy on the handlebar doesn't work or 
 even what it does. 

>>>

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Re: [RBW] SunTour Rachet Bar Ends shifting a Modern RD - Need to Trim??

[Ben Adrian]

I have a nutty setup at the moment:
Silver 1 shifters
R7000 105 rear derailleur (yes, this is modern 11 speed which has a lower 
cable pull ratio)
11-32 8 speed cassette
9 speed chain

In general, it works really well. I have has some issues "finding" the 
larger cogs. When shifting from small to the 6th or 7th cogs, it sometimes 
either doesn't go enough, or goes too much. I make up for it by 
intentionally shifting too far and then trimming it back down. A bit 
tiresome, but I'm okay with it for the simplicity of the setup.

Also, since this RD has a 1.4 cable pull ratio rathe than a 1.7 of the 9 
speed and earlier RDs, it sould have finer movement. I believe that I have 
experienced this. The R7000 is definitely more forgiving than the RD-6500 
that I had on previously. Thought if I want to go back to my indezed 
shifters, I know this RD won't work.

Cheers!
Ben

On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 9:36:23 AM UTC-8 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:

> While were on the subject. I have some Riv Silver 2 shifters. I can’t seem 
> to get the tension right. They’re either stiffer than I’d like or they 
> slip. New housing and cables. Any tips?
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 8:23 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> Scott has covered this completely so I'll just add this from my 
>> experience with various ratcheting style shifters: I've never noticed the 
>> specific number of clicks per cog, what I *have *noticed is the ratchet 
>> feature makes the "I have to move the lever this much to get a clean shift" 
>> action easier to nail. I can't explain why it helps me, but I always had 
>> better luck with them than pure friction levers. 
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:43:17 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:
>>
>>> John:
>>>
>>> I'll attempt to add to the valuable information Dave and Nick have 
>>> shared...
>>>
>>> When thinking about compatibility with shifters, RDs, and cassettes; 
>>> keep in mind the RD does whatever the shifter (index, ratchet, or friction) 
>>> tells it to do, hence the "dummy" comment. So you can for the most part 
>>> eliminate the RD from your compatibility question.
>>>
>>> Your Shimano 8 speed shifter works with your Shimano 7 speed cassette 
>>> because the "indexing" in the shifter is matched with the spacing between 
>>> the cassette cogs; hence one click, one shift. So when you click a shift 
>>> the shifter pulls the cable an amount that causes the RD to move (inboard 
>>> or outboard) an amount equivalent to the distance between the cogs of the 
>>> cassette. On a Shimano 8 speed cassette the distance between cogs is 4.8 
>>> mm, so each time you shift with a Shimano 8 speed indexed shifter the RD is 
>>> going to move 4.8 mm inboard or outboard. Shimano 9 speed cassettes have 
>>> the cogs spaced 4.34 mm apart. You can see the problem if you were to use, 
>>> for example, a Shimano 9 speed indexed shifter with an 8 speed cassette 
>>> (one shift would move RD 4.34 mm, not the needed 4.8 mm between 8 speed 
>>> cassette cogs) Your 8 speed shifter works on the 7 speed cassette because a 
>>> limit screw on the RD doesn't allow it to move the full distance into the 
>>> 8th position and the distance between cogs on a 7 speed cassette are the 
>>> same as 8 speed: 4.8 mm. Indexing (space between cogs) is the same between 
>>> Shimano 7 and 8 speed, so they play well together. If you were to use a 
>>> cassette from a different manufacturer in which the distance between cogs 
>>> was different from that of a Shimano cassette, then you'd likely run into a 
>>> compatibility issue with your 8 speed shifter/non-Shimano cassette 
>>> (assuming cog spacing was different from an 8 speed Shimano cassette).
>>>
>>> One can almost look at a friction shifter as allowing infinite 
>>> adjustment. Riders that are good with them almost develop an indexing in 
>>> their head/hand feel then fine tune after a shift. No indexing to a 
>>> friction shifter so you can run a friction shifter with any make/speed 
>>> cassette. Just have to find the sweet spot yourself.
>>>
>>> The ratchets move the shift cable in little bits (and the RD in little 
>>> bits) I believe (I've never ran them. Someone, please, correct me if I'm 
>>> wrong). So each click moves the shift cable a certain amount that in turn 
>>> moves the RD a certain amount. You'd have to do some research to find out 
>>> how much the RD moves with each click of your 1975s and then do some math. 
>>> You know, at least with your Shimano 7 speed cassette, the cogs are spaced 
>>> 4.8 mm apart. How much does the 1975 shifter move the RD each click? For 
>>> perfect shifting on the 7 speed (or 8) cassette, the clicks (one, two, or 
>>> three)/RD movement would have to add up to intervals of 4.8 mm. I doubt 
>>> that's going to be the case, but fortunately there's a little wiggle room 
>>> short of perfect that will obtain satisfactory shifting. At least there is 
>>> more wiggle room with 4.8 mm spacing than there is with 4.34 mm (Shimano 9 
>>> speed casette).

Re: [RBW] Re: How are you building up your Platypus?

[Chris Cameron]

That is so sweet looking, Dave.  It really makes me want to jump on it 
before all of the Platypus frames are gone.

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 4:56:14 PM UTC-5 DavidP wrote:

> A few more pieces have come together, and now my Platy has rear shifting:
>
> [image: IMG_20221126_160328219.jpg]
>
> The rear derailleur is an Altus with a "Jim" 7 speed 13-34 cassette (I 
> mistakenly typed 11t in my post above). The crank is a Velo Orange 46/30. 
> Still waffling on a front derailleur so am manually changing rings but the 
> full cassette is usable with both front rings.
>
> The front Mark's Rack will likely get a 137 half-basket and bag. The stem 
> bag is from Outer Shell and the bottom is tethered to the rack tombstone to 
> stabilize and keep it off the headtube (too precious?) as well as provide 
> the suggested rack support. There's a Nitto lamp holder on the strut for 
> the coming dynamo light, once I rebuild the wheel with the SON wide body 
> hub. The tail light is a Blue Lug Koma rechargeable - I'm unsure if I'll 
> run a wired tail in the future.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Wednesday, November 23, 2022 at 5:10:53 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:
>
>> Congratulations, Dave! That's a really clean build! Enjoy it while it's 
>> in stop-and-shift mode藍.
>>
>> And Happy Thanksgiving to you and all the Rivsters across the globe!
>>
>> Scott in Big Sky Country
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>> 
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 2:56 PM, DavidP
>>  wrote:
>>
>> An update on my Platy build - I'm still waiting on some things but I've 
>> ridden it bit around the neighborhood without any shifting (30/11 gearing) 
>> to get a feel for it. It's already a little bit dirty.
>>
>> [image: R001-3692_platypus-1800.jpg]
>>
>> 65cm Tosco bars with 120mm Nitto UI-12 stem - I wanted the bars to be on 
>> the wider side but was unsure about the look of a 31.8 bar/stem on a bike 
>> like the Platypus. The smooth taper on the Tosco helps. I knew I'd have 
>> about a fistfull of seat post showing and wanted the bars above the saddle 
>> but not too high. The UI-12 gets there but it is maxed out on height so the 
>> 31.8 flaceplaters that Riv sells are probably a better option for most 
>> (though with the 10 degree rise you'd need a longer faceplater to get the 
>> same extension as the horizontal UI-12). The Toscos allow for a big range 
>> in back angle depending on where you grip the bar - something I came to 
>> appreciate on my bikes with Jones bars. AME Tri grips with khaki Newbaum's 
>> on the bends.
>>
>> [image: R001-3707_bars.jpg]
>>
>> Tektro CL330 levers - these are inexpensive V-brake levers that work and 
>> feel good. I considered something fancier (VO, IRD, Paul) but liked the 
>> shape of these. The clamp is low profile enough that you can place your 
>> hands anywhere on/over it without really feeling it; no rubber plumbing 
>> washers needed. On bars as swept back as the Toscos I like to be able to 
>> pull against the front of the lever body near the clamp (kind of like hoods 
>> on drop bar levers) and these are wider and the edges radiused here to make 
>> that more comfortable. Sticking a bit of cloth tape there feels downright 
>> luxurious.
>>
>> Dia-Compe ENE shift levers on Velo Orange mounts - not cabled yet but 
>> I've test fit some cables and they seem good to go. A first gen Silver 
>> shift lever seemed fine on these mounts too, which makes sense as Dia-Compe 
>> makes them.
>>
>> Dia-Compe MX2 VC733 V-brakes - a BMX brake not unlike the Shimano DXR 
>> BR-MX70. Decent silvery finish. Good power and modulation. 116mm arms 
>> provide plenty of tire and/or fender clearance. Swap the pads (L<->R) to 
>> turn one into a front brake (they are marked for rotation direction). I 
>> also moved the spacers around on all the pad posts to get better arm 
>> alignment on the wide Cliffhanger rims.
>>
>> [image: R001-3703_brakes.jpg]
>>
>> Once the derailleurs are cabled the bike will be mostly finished but 
>> racks, bags, and lighting are still to come.
>>
>> Happy Thanksgiving!
>>
>> - Dave
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 11:40:09 AM UTC-5 Shoji Takahashi wrote:
>>
>> I really like the MKS Bear Trap pedals. They are very comfortable for my 
>> size 10-11 foot. 
>>
>> I have VP Thin gripsters and VP Vice pedals on other bikes, and MKS 
>> Sneaker Pedals on the HHH tandem. Those are all fine pedals-- I was 
>> surprised at the comfort of the Bear traps. (I wear thin-soled "barefoot 
>> style" shoes or sandals.)
>>
>> looking forward to seeing the final builds!
>> shoji
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 3:49:13 PM UTC-5 alancrai...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Here’s my build list:
>>
>> Frame & Fork: Rivendell Platypus, 60cm
>>
>> Headset: FSA Duron X1
>>
>> Bottom Bracket: Phil Wood 113/68
>>
>> Crank: Silver Low/Low w/guard 

[RBW] Re: front deraileur dilemma

[Bill Lindsay]

I concur that the skeleton key front derailer turns out to be a "high Q 
factor" or "large front chain line" model.  When used on a skinny tire road 
bike, with a narrower Q factor crankset, it doesn't reach.  

Still, I really liked the cage size and shape, so I went ahead and made my 
own eccentric spacer to pull it inboard, and now it shifts my 
narrow-Q-factor triple just fine.  

Here's the plastic raw material I 
used: https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/52444537055/
Here's what the finished spacer looks 
like: https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/52444371359
Here's what it looks like with the FD clamped around 
it:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/52445653361

Here's a link to the entire album, which has some more shots of my setup on 
my small 
lathe:  
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720303067081/with/52445653361/

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 2:50:52 PM UTC-8 chrisd wrote:

> Decided to switch to a 42 big ring from a 44 on a Ritchey Logic triple CS 
> (44/34/26) on my Rambouillet and tried a Skeleton Key FD but can't shift to 
> the granny. My old shimano FD tail barely cleared the chainstay with the 44 
> so any older derailers won't work. Riv says the Skeleton works on triples 
> but it's probably something to do with geo on the current models.Need a 
> short cage FD. Thought of a mountain FD.  My brifters are old Campy so 
> don't have to worry about indexing. Any suggestions?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: When the Rivs are sold out and you need a bike for daily commuting...

[Patrick Moore]

Stephanie: I also find riding in the rain, occasionally, rather fun; since
this is high desert NM and I work at home and choose my own schedule, I
don't do this a lot, but I used to regularly ride home on rainy days (rains
usually come up in the afternoon during our summer "monsoon" season) and
tried various capes, ending up with a $20 lightweight yellow nylon cycling
cape from Campor.

Tip for the rear of the cape, if you want to keep it down in back: the
Campmor cape had leg loops which were very awkward; I removed those and
sewed on a small stack of large metal washers; works like a charm: keeps it
down even in wind, and takes up so little space I can easily stuff the cape
back into its very small carrying bag. Note: Keeping it down in back makes
the cape cover a small saddlebag, mostly.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 7:40 AM Stephanie A.  wrote:

> Mr. Ray, I almost bought one of the VO polyvalents, but no LBS carried one
> to try and I was clueless on how to build up a bike.
>
> Reginald, thank you for that tip.
>
> Y'all. I took Rubia (hey, look at that, my bike has a name now) out for a
> rainy commute and it was incredibly empowering. Back in ye olde car days,
> I'd have 100% opted to drive. And before I figured out what tools would
> help make me feel comfortable riding in the rain, I'd have called a
> rideshare for trips that didn't have efficient public transit options. Both
> me--except for my shoes--and my stuff (including pointe shoes, which are
> extremely sensitive to moisture) arrived home bone dry. Most importantly, I
> felt comfortable and safe.
>
> Besides my previously mentioned bags from Wizard Works and RBW and the
> lights and many reflective touches I keep on my bike, here's what made it
> comfortable for me.
>
> 1. Bike poncho (in yellow), but you can see it on a bike in the black
> color: https://store.moma.org/products/kiu-reflective-bike-poncho. I had
> the back under my rear end since my saddle had a (quite soaked) cover on.
> I'm sure any poncho or garbage bag would truly be fine, this just had a lot
> of features that were v functional for me. I felt like I was in a little
> cocoon of reflectivity and water-repellent safety.
>
> 2. Randi Jo Fabrications saddle cover on my leather saddle kept it d r y
> despite being locked up in the rain for over an hour. I'm pretty sure I
> found out about RJF from you fine folx, so many hat tips to you.
>
> On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:05:16 PM UTC-5 R. Alexis wrote:
>
>> The grips should come off fine. Just stick a slim, long flat screwdriver
>> under it, then spray some alcohol in under it to loosen it. Should slide
>> off fine. Can use the same solution or hairspray to slide on new bars.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Reginald Alexis
>>
>> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 2:05:28 PM UTC-6 Stephanie A. wrote:
>>
>>> @Robb: that's one stout looking front  bag!
>>>
>>> @Shoji: for me it's my torso--I need to be able to move forward and
>>> stretch out or sit more upright with my hands farther back. Straight bars
>>> aren't giving me the versatility I want. I've tried to get the grips off
>>> and think I may end up taking an exacto knife to them and peeling them off.
>>>
>>> @Roberta: thank you! I don't know if I'm pushing what she's meant to
>>> carry, weight wise. I haven't had any trouble yet, except for maneuvering
>>> her fully loaded when I'm off the bike!
>>>
>>> Here she is, fully loaded today with ballet stuff in the front and the
>>> too-warm jacket I started with stuffed into the slimsucker.
>>>
>>> [image: 4DEAAB68-0D7D-426C-BA65-EC321ACBB5C6.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 9:25:44 PM UTC-5 Roberta wrote:
>>>
 Love the look of your bike. It’s even so much better when it’s “just
 perfect”. Dyno-  yes, absolutely the best. Enjoy the ride!

 I’m sending you a PM about tires. I have a barely ridden pair that you
 might be interested in. Check your spam folder if not in your inbox by
 midnight.

 Roberta

 On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:08:26 PM UTC-5 Stephanie A. wrote:

> Sorry, apparently my posts are too long.
>
> Here's what I'm still looking to change:
>
> 1. Handlebars! Maybe Chocos or Albatross for more hand positions and
> real estate, but I think that'll also need a different stem.
>
> 2. Dynam
>
> 3. I have really small hands, so trigger shifters for the rear have
> been a nice change from the brifters I had that were a reach for me on old
> bikes. I wonder if any other shifters or brake levers would work even
> better?
>
> 4. I'll get studded schwalbes for snow, but are there any recs for
> 700cx38 that are good for road that sometimes becomes mud or sand when
> going around people on the greenway? My stock tires are Kenda.
>
> 5. Paul Motolites
>
> 6. Generally adding more chaotic color throughout
>
> 7. Longer fenders
>
> Anywho. We'll see how this goes! This 

Re: [RBW] SunTour Rachet Bar Ends shifting a Modern RD - Need to Trim??

[Eliot Balogh]

While were on the subject. I have some Riv Silver 2 shifters. I can’t seem
to get the tension right. They’re either stiffer than I’d like or they
slip. New housing and cables. Any tips?

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 8:23 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Scott has covered this completely so I'll just add this from my experience
> with various ratcheting style shifters: I've never noticed the specific
> number of clicks per cog, what I *have *noticed is the ratchet feature
> makes the "I have to move the lever this much to get a clean shift" action
> easier to nail. I can't explain why it helps me, but I always had better
> luck with them than pure friction levers.
>
>
> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:43:17 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:
>
>> John:
>>
>> I'll attempt to add to the valuable information Dave and Nick have
>> shared...
>>
>> When thinking about compatibility with shifters, RDs, and cassettes; keep
>> in mind the RD does whatever the shifter (index, ratchet, or friction)
>> tells it to do, hence the "dummy" comment. So you can for the most part
>> eliminate the RD from your compatibility question.
>>
>> Your Shimano 8 speed shifter works with your Shimano 7 speed cassette
>> because the "indexing" in the shifter is matched with the spacing between
>> the cassette cogs; hence one click, one shift. So when you click a shift
>> the shifter pulls the cable an amount that causes the RD to move (inboard
>> or outboard) an amount equivalent to the distance between the cogs of the
>> cassette. On a Shimano 8 speed cassette the distance between cogs is 4.8
>> mm, so each time you shift with a Shimano 8 speed indexed shifter the RD is
>> going to move 4.8 mm inboard or outboard. Shimano 9 speed cassettes have
>> the cogs spaced 4.34 mm apart. You can see the problem if you were to use,
>> for example, a Shimano 9 speed indexed shifter with an 8 speed cassette
>> (one shift would move RD 4.34 mm, not the needed 4.8 mm between 8 speed
>> cassette cogs) Your 8 speed shifter works on the 7 speed cassette because a
>> limit screw on the RD doesn't allow it to move the full distance into the
>> 8th position and the distance between cogs on a 7 speed cassette are the
>> same as 8 speed: 4.8 mm. Indexing (space between cogs) is the same between
>> Shimano 7 and 8 speed, so they play well together. If you were to use a
>> cassette from a different manufacturer in which the distance between cogs
>> was different from that of a Shimano cassette, then you'd likely run into a
>> compatibility issue with your 8 speed shifter/non-Shimano cassette
>> (assuming cog spacing was different from an 8 speed Shimano cassette).
>>
>> One can almost look at a friction shifter as allowing infinite
>> adjustment. Riders that are good with them almost develop an indexing in
>> their head/hand feel then fine tune after a shift. No indexing to a
>> friction shifter so you can run a friction shifter with any make/speed
>> cassette. Just have to find the sweet spot yourself.
>>
>> The ratchets move the shift cable in little bits (and the RD in little
>> bits) I believe (I've never ran them. Someone, please, correct me if I'm
>> wrong). So each click moves the shift cable a certain amount that in turn
>> moves the RD a certain amount. You'd have to do some research to find out
>> how much the RD moves with each click of your 1975s and then do some math.
>> You know, at least with your Shimano 7 speed cassette, the cogs are spaced
>> 4.8 mm apart. How much does the 1975 shifter move the RD each click? For
>> perfect shifting on the 7 speed (or 8) cassette, the clicks (one, two, or
>> three)/RD movement would have to add up to intervals of 4.8 mm. I doubt
>> that's going to be the case, but fortunately there's a little wiggle room
>> short of perfect that will obtain satisfactory shifting. At least there is
>> more wiggle room with 4.8 mm spacing than there is with 4.34 mm (Shimano 9
>> speed casette).
>> I guess one could look at ratchet shifting as being somewhere between
>> indexing (one click, one shift) and friction (infinite adjustment) shifting.
>>
>> Your research task: find out how much RD moves with each ratchet of your
>> 1975s. Then you'll be able to better assess compatibility with different
>> cassettes of any maker/speed, as long as you get the respective cog
>> spacing. For the compatibility issue you are inquiring about, the RD isn't
>> really part of the puzzle, so eliminate it.
>>
>> Sheldon Brown's website has that level of trivia: cog spacing, indexing
>> values. And hopefully it has ratcheting values. You might find your answer
>> there.
>>
>> Good luck! And, please, report back!
>>
>> Scott in Big Sky Country
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 05:21:38 PM MST, 'John Hawrylak' via RBW
>> Owners Bunch  wrote:
>>
>>
>> IF I use my 1975 Suntour Bar End Ratcheted shifters with a modern Shimano
>> RD (Deroe M531) and a Shimano 7 speed HG cassette, and modern Shimano
>> shifter cables/housings,  WILL the RD shift each gear going 

Re: [RBW] SunTour Rachet Bar Ends shifting a Modern RD - Need to Trim??

[Patrick Moore]

I use Suntour barcons to pull an 8-speed Dura Ace rd across 10 cogs with an
11 speed chain; no problem at all.

To shift across the 10 cogs takes just a bit more than 90 degrees of lever
movement; I'm confident they would shift 11 without problem.

You have to learn the shifting technique: shift crisply and confidently
(and get a "sense" of how far to move the lever for each cog jump) and the
chain moves obediently and quietly. Shift hesitantly, weakly, shyly, and
you get mis-shifts and rattle.

Overshifts: no, at least not with my rd, cogs (more-or-less in-series
Hyperglide, 13-25 10 sp): IME, HG cogs shift better in friction than
straight-tooth cogs.

IME, the Barcons work better than the first edition Silvers. They pull more
cable for a given lever movement -- iow, less MA -- but I find shifting
easier with them compared to the first gen Silvers. I have not used 2nd gen
Silvers.

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 5:21 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> IF I use my 1975 Suntour Bar End Ratcheted shifters with a modern Shimano
> RD (Deroe M531) and a Shimano 7 speed HG cassette, and modern Shimano
> shifter cables/housings,  WILL the RD shift each gear going from the
> smallest cog to the largest cog, WITHOUT the need to ‘trim’ the RD after
> each shift, especially when moving up in the large cogs
>
> Secondary question:  If the SunTours would work without trimming, do they
> enough pull for a 7 speed cassette???
>
>  I have been using 8 speed Shimano Ultegra bar ends (BS-64) with a HG-50 7
> speed cassette and like it, 1 click, 1 shift, no need to trim.  Been
> curious about going back to using the SunTours rachets if the modern RD
> eliminates the need to “trim”.  Would like to know if others have tried it
> and what the results are with respect to trimming.
>
>  Note,  NOT looking for a debate on Index vs Friction.  I think index is
> better, but I have trouble burying those nice SunTour bar ends & maybe I
> can use them if the RD eliminates trimming.  YMMV and that’s great,
> diversity is good.
>
>
>
> John Hawrylak
>
> Woodstown NJ
>
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> .
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---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Who is getting a Platypus?

[Masa]

Hi Roberta, thank you for welcoming me to the forum!

The mirror on my bike is Busch + Muller Cycle Star.
I like the extension too, it's flexible so it's easy to adjust the angle 
when you climb up, going down and turn corner.
Some people might feel that it is wobbly but I'm fine, it's useful.

Thank you for your words! I hope to find how you enjoy riding your bike on 
the forum too.

Masa

2022年11月28日月曜日 20:34:35 UTC+9 Roberta:

> Congratulations on your new ride. I love it and the sentiment in your 
> post. And, welcome to the forum. 
>
> Can you share the mirror brand and model? I like it’s extension. 
>
> I wish you many, many happy hours of riding. I’m looking forward to 
> hearing your impressions.  
>
> Roberta 
>
> On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 8:42:45 PM UTC-5 Masa wrote:
>
>> Hello, I live in Tokyo and have been a fan of Rivendell since luckily my 
>> local bike shop is Blue Lug! The other day I finally got my Platypus as my 
>> first Riv.
>>
>> I found that Leah mentioned about my Instagram post on the other thread 
>> and really appreciate that.
>>
>> It was just my understanding what Grant (and the mechanic who built my 
>> Platty from Blue Lug) like to tell the owners of  Riv. So it’s not my 
>> original but just a reflection :)
>>
>> Masa
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Bullmoose bars, Soma Shikoro tires, Paul Seat Post

[Daniel Rooke]

Seatpost sold.  Only Bullmoose bars left.

On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 9:57:54 PM UTC-7 malvar...@gmail.com 
wrote:

>
> Message sent. 
> On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 7:42:39 PM UTC-6 Daniel Rooke wrote:
>
>> Bump.  Dropping prices:
>>
>> Bullmoose bars: $140
>> Seatpost: $100
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:33:53 PM UTC-7 Daniel Rooke wrote:
>>
>>> TIres sold.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 1:22:43 PM UTC-7 Daniel Rooke wrote:
>>>
 Hello,

 Prices do not include shipping, please supply a zip code to calculate 
 shipping.   I can provide more photos of any of the items.  Also happy to 
 answer any questions.

 *Nitto Bullmoose handlebars* - same as the ones on Rivendell website - 
 bought new and installed on one bike but never ridden - I just didn’t like 
 the fit - $180

 A Pair of Soma Shikoro 700 x 48 tires - almost no wear - $90

 Paul Tall & Handsome Seatpost 27.2 x 360 Anodized silver - bought new 
 and used for several months with some cosmetic signs of use - $150

 Thanks

 Photos: 
 https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1YSS3e0mvNmTuUIX1FnUoafdqjfeMrsYs?usp=sharing

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cockpit Quandaries - Friction bar ends for a new rider

[Patrick Moore]

But that's the point, Joe. If you learn the skill -- it's not rocket
science, for chrissake! -- you don't hunt, you just shift accurately. This
assumes that your drivetrain components are basically decent in quality and
condition.

As for choosing the easier method and thinking the slightly harder method
-- requiring some little practice to acquire a skill -- is silly, well
that's one person's choice and opinion, but not another's.

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 3:44 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> ... I think hunting around for the next cog just because you can is silly,
> the clicks work.
>

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Re: [RBW] Who is getting a Platypus?

[Masa]

Thank you Leah! I like the bar tapes too. They are varnished and it turned 
out really nice colours. The mechanic advised me to put the more different 
colour on the drive train side so that it gives contrast in photos. As you 
said Blue Lug staff are geniuses, they care about every small detail. I 
like your Platypus as well, really beautiful colour!

I used to ride Surly Cross check which I still love it but I think the 
Platypus fits better than the Surly for my purpose to ride.
The platypus is really smooth and fun to ride as well as runs at very 
comfortable speed to commute in Tokyo.
There are lots of traffic signals here and you have to stop many times so 
it really doesn't matter how fast you are.
My platypus runs neither fast or slow but just comfortable and stable. It 
is flexible on unpaved roads, pushes me up with the long chain stay to 
climb up. I love the bike.

I will keep posting how I enjoy riding my Platypus!

Masa
2022年11月26日土曜日 12:47:39 UTC+9 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!:

> 
> Hi Masa, so good to “see” you on this forum! Yes, your quote and photo 
> were so memorable it simply needed to be posted here. You are so lucky that 
> Blue Lug is your local shop; they are creative geniuses. I love that 
> two-color bar tape on your bars. How do you like your new Platypus? You 
> said it’s your first Rivendell - does it live up to your expectations? 
> Thank you for posting and sharing your new bike with us. Hope to hear more 
> from you on this forum!
> Leah
>
> On Nov 25, 2022, at 8:42 PM, Masa  wrote:
>
>  
>
> Hello, I live in Tokyo and have been a fan of Rivendell since luckily my 
> local bike shop is Blue Lug! The other day I finally got my Platypus as my 
> first Riv.
>
> I found that Leah mentioned about my Instagram post on the other thread 
> and really appreciate that.
>
> It was just my understanding what Grant (and the mechanic who built my 
> Platty from Blue Lug) like to tell the owners of  Riv. So it’s not my 
> original but just a reflection :)
>
> Masa
>
> -- 
>
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> 
> .
> 
> 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Who is getting a Platypus?

[Masa]

Thank you Takashi. As I replied to Leah, the bike is really comfortable and 
fun. I feel like I can ride it all day and I want to do it!

I saw your Hunqapillar on the other thread, it is a really cool bike! (also 
you live in Japan too!)

Here's the link for the Flicker photos of my Platypus taken by Blue Lug.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/blk20221121pl2

Masa
2022年11月26日土曜日 19:43:50 UTC+9 Takashi:

> Masa,
> Congrats on your new bike!
> I'm looking forward to hearing from you about how the bike feels.
>
> Takashi
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Haul'in the Goods with MouseTraps and Trailers

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, John. I daresay that more solid attachments would make a
difference. I'll be interested to see any photos you can find.

Back to the Pletscher bolted to seatstay clamps on that Sprite: The sway
was almost unbelievably bad with 30 lb in the rear baskets and I recall
being glad that most of the return trip was on a back road and not on the
parallel Wisconsin Avenue on which my WDC apartment fronted. Still, it was
better than walking.

Sprite was a garage sale or thrift store find with flipped and trimmed
North Road bar and 1X5 shifted by Alvit rd pulled by big chromed steel stem
shifter. A fun bike when not loaded with groceries.

On Sat, Nov 26, 2022 at 6:47 AM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Patrick
>
> Good point on rigidity.
>
> I don't think the modern Pletscher is much more rigid, but the mounting is
> more rigid.  The folks up there typically mount the older style rack's
> front to the rack mounts on the stays using a U shaped piece of steel strip
> going from the rack mounts and the rack being attached to the bottom of the
> U.   This makes the front mounting much more rigid than the steel plate
> sandwiched between the stays method Pletscher used before.  The rack's flat
> mounting piece in the front bolts directly to the U shaped piece oif steel
> strip
>
> I'll try to get a picture of the U shaped mounting the next time we get up
> there.
>
> Also, I think the new Pletscher racks mount directly to the rack mounts,
> increasing rigidity of the front mounting.  .
>
> These folks use recent frames, vs older frames, and they come with rack
> mounts on the stays.   The new frames fit the needs of these folks better
> than  the older frames, which typically don't have rack mounts.  Also, new
> Fuji's, Jamis's, etc come with new components which work good vs 'legacy'
> equipment which can be hard to find when replacement is needed.  They want
> utility, not really 'memories'.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 8:42:16 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Is the modern Pletscher better than the original model from the 1970s and
>> '80s? I ask because the Pletscher I installed circa 1985 on a beater city
>> Sprite to carry 2 Wald basket panniers was the most flexible rack I've ever
>> used; I recall literally being unable to ride a straight line with heavily
>> loaded rear baskets. Fortunately my return trip from the grocery store was
>> only about 1/2 mile.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 5:05 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is a picture of 3 bikes haul'in the goods in the PA Dutch country
>>> on Sat 11/19/22.  This is the back of the Goods store in East Earl PA on Rt
>>> 23 near Rt 322.  People were out doing the Thanksgiving shopping and some
>>> Balck Friday shopping.
>>>
>>> The bikes are used for more utilitarian tasks up there with young,
>>> middle and older age riders using them for day to day tasks.
>>>
>>> The near one has a trailer with items from the Shady Maple supermarket
>>> (blue bag) and the gentleman riding it is just about to add a bag of items
>>> from Goods.
>>>
>>> The second has a Pletchser with a working Mousetrap holding a wooden
>>> cargo box.  Note hoe the box has a nice cut out accommodating both the
>>> Mousetrap bend and his/her hand.
>>>
>>> The far on has a Pletchser Mousetrap holding the standard cardboard box
>>> with the trap deforming the box top.
>>>
>>> All 3 use kickstands.   The near one is a Fuji and the other 2 are
>>> Jamis.   Those folks must be in great shape!  Great to see a Pletchser
>>> MouseTrap being used for what they designed it for and doing a good job.
>>>
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
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[RBW] SOLD. [FS: Original issue Grab Sack, now $30 shipped CONUS, and free pair of Tifosi shades]

[Patrick Moore]

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Re: [RBW] Re: front deraileur dilemma

[Steven Sweedler]

Bill what crank are you using that allows a 19 T and who makes the 19 T.
Thanks, Steve

On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 9:58 AM Bill Schairer  wrote:

> I'm not sure I understand the "so any older derailers won't work"
> comment.  My 2014 Atlantis with a Suntour Vx (from the 70's?) front
> derailleur shifts a 42/34/19 flawlessly.  I do use a chain catcher to
> prevent dropping the chain going to the 19.
>
> Bill S
> San Diego
>
> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 3:01:43 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Two teeth smaller shouldn't require a repositioning of the mech you were
>> using. Did you have a problem with it?
>>
>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 2:50:52 PM UTC-8 chrisd wrote:
>>
>>> Decided to switch to a 42 big ring from a 44 on a Ritchey Logic triple
>>> CS (44/34/26) on my Rambouillet and tried a Skeleton Key FD but can't shift
>>> to the granny. My old shimano FD tail barely cleared the chainstay with the
>>> 44 so any older derailers won't work. Riv says the Skeleton works on
>>> triples but it's probably something to do with geo on the current
>>> models.Need a short cage FD. Thought of a mountain FD.  My brifters are old
>>> Campy so don't have to worry about indexing. Any suggestions?
>>
>>
>>> --
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-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[RBW] Book recommendations for learning how to build up a bike

[Stephanie A.]

As I continue to change things on my current bike, I've realize that what I 
really want is a book that helps me understand building up and maintaining 
a bike. YouTube videos and helpful websites are great. I'm so thankful that 
they exist. But my brain craves a single, cohesively written text I can 
easily read through and turn to when I'm thinking about changing shifters, 
selecting different drivetrain parts, understanding geometry, taking apart 
bikes, wiring, and making adjustments. I really only see myself dealing 
with non-fixie commuters and touring bikes.

I found a book online called *How to Build a Bike (in a Weekend)* by Alan 
Anderson with illustrations by Lee John Phillips. Has anyone used this? 
Does anyone have other suggestions?

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[RBW] Re: front deraileur dilemma

[Bill Schairer]

I'm not sure I understand the "so any older derailers won't work" comment.  
My 2014 Atlantis with a Suntour Vx (from the 70's?) front derailleur shifts 
a 42/34/19 flawlessly.  I do use a chain catcher to prevent dropping the 
chain going to the 19.

Bill S
San Diego

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 3:01:43 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Two teeth smaller shouldn't require a repositioning of the mech you were 
> using. Did you have a problem with it? 
>
> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 2:50:52 PM UTC-8 chrisd wrote:
>
>> Decided to switch to a 42 big ring from a 44 on a Ritchey Logic triple CS 
>> (44/34/26) on my Rambouillet and tried a Skeleton Key FD but can't shift to 
>> the granny. My old shimano FD tail barely cleared the chainstay with the 44 
>> so any older derailers won't work. Riv says the Skeleton works on triples 
>> but it's probably something to do with geo on the current models.Need a 
>> short cage FD. Thought of a mountain FD.  My brifters are old Campy so 
>> don't have to worry about indexing. Any suggestions?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Report: Hawksbill Slope cabin overnighter

[Stephanie A.]

A. Your pics are gorgeous.

B. Your ride report has me thinking about biking beyond commuting. It's 
ever slightly more tempting now.

On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 6:46:56 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Damn, Jim! Thanks for the scone report, glad they turned out. Sounds 
> great. I gotta be careful making them, I can eat half a batch without even 
> thinking about it... 
>
> On Tuesday, November 22, 2022 at 6:11:32 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>> The scones came together quickly and are delicious… we used the basic 
>> recipe and added matcha and fresh blueberries. Fantastic. Perfect energy 
>> for a cold ride today!
>>
>> On Nov 20, 2022, at 11:25 AM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Jim! A friend asked for the packing list so I figured I'd go for 
>> it. When I've read other ride reports I've thought "I wouldn't mind reading 
>> a complete list of what they brought." 
>>
>> The scone recipe is from America's Test Kitchen, I've used it for years. 
>> I've made it with dried cherries, currants and, my fave, crystalized dried 
>> ginger. Recipe attached. The soup is from Alice Waters's Art of Simple 
>> Food. Will Keating asked for the recipe so I already have a scan, attached. 
>> The recipe is altered slightly from another with a lot of "if this, then 
>> that" so I simplified with an index card which helps me out. Paul seemed to 
>> really like it. This is a standard for me and something I make a few times 
>> a year going back a decade. This time the squash was a volunteer that grew 
>> out of our compost pile. 
>>
>> I'm glad you enjoyed, Brian. Paul might be around to chime in. I know he 
>> dislikes racks! He definitely packed way lighter than me but didn't weigh 
>> his load. He had a medium Sackville Saddlesack and a rectangular Sackville 
>> bag that's very similar to the old Riv Brand-V handlebar bag. He also rode 
>> with a lightweight nylon backpack which had some extra layers. 
>>
>> I def enjoy glass, ceramics and metal for drinking. I'll pack plastic if 
>> I have to! I love my AeroPress, the simplicity, size and quality of coffee 
>> I cannot beat. Also great that it makes a cup at a time. I use it at home 
>> for every cup of coffee. 
>>
>> On Sunday, November 20, 2022 at 9:41:58 AM UTC-5 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Excellent ride report, as always Eric! I appreciate the little details 
>>> you choose to include. As a fellow swoopy hillibike rider, I am curious a 
>>> bit about your companion’s setup on his Susie and his experience. Maybe you 
>>> can convince him to share his perspective too. It would be really cool to 
>>> have two different perspectives and setups from the same ride!
>>>
>>> I am right there with you on the aversion to drinking from plastic these 
>>> days. Something has changed with me these past few years where I have 
>>> started phasing out all my plastic drinking containers because when I use 
>>> them, I seem to strongly taste the plastic and it really turns me off. I 
>>> don’t think it is related to COVID or anything because to my knowledge I 
>>> still have not been infected by it. But something has definitely changed, 
>>> and as a result I’ve switched to all-stainless or titanium drinking 
>>> vessels. The only pass I give is to my trusty Aeropress, because the coffee 
>>> it makes is just too damn good!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 10:52:52 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>>
 Eric, thanks for the report. It was nicely structured and written with 
 such gentle thoughtfulness. Thanks also for sharing your packing list in 
 so 
 much detail. I wonder if there have ever been recipe exchange threads on 
 this forum: what to prepare to eat when you’re taking a ride on your 
 Rivendell :) The scones and soup sounded delicious! Your report inspired a 
 strong urge to ride. 

 Jim

 On Nov 19, 2022, at 21:24, MoVelo  wrote:

 Excellent report. Thanks for sharing with us what sounds like an epic 
 adventure.



 On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 3:15:59 PM UTC-6 
 alancrai...@gmail.com wrote:

> Great report. Sounds like a fantastic ride and near perfect 
> accommodations for a rustic overnighter. Thanks for sharing! 
>
> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 6:44:49 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, brizbarn. Overpacking is my strong suit regardless of where 
>> I'm going or for how long! 
>>
>> I haven't been tested in a laboratory setting but I think I'm sweat 
>> at an unusually high rate. Has always been true of me. I was definitely 
>> quite thirsty at the end of the day and would have preferred to drink 
>> even 
>> more water as the cabin dried out from the woodstove. I have some sport 
>> tops but another personal sensory thing for me is drinking over plastic, 
>> I 
>> don't like it for hot or cold drinks and I prefer a metal edge. I didn't 
>> mind stopping a few times to swig some 

[RBW] Re: When the Rivs are sold out and you need a bike for daily commuting...

[Stephanie A.]

Mr. Ray, I almost bought one of the VO polyvalents, but no LBS carried one 
to try and I was clueless on how to build up a bike.

Reginald, thank you for that tip.

Y'all. I took Rubia (hey, look at that, my bike has a name now) out for a 
rainy commute and it was incredibly empowering. Back in ye olde car days, 
I'd have 100% opted to drive. And before I figured out what tools would 
help make me feel comfortable riding in the rain, I'd have called a 
rideshare for trips that didn't have efficient public transit options. Both 
me--except for my shoes--and my stuff (including pointe shoes, which are 
extremely sensitive to moisture) arrived home bone dry. Most importantly, I 
felt comfortable and safe. 

Besides my previously mentioned bags from Wizard Works and RBW and the 
lights and many reflective touches I keep on my bike, here's what made it 
comfortable for me.

1. Bike poncho (in yellow), but you can see it on a bike in the black 
color: https://store.moma.org/products/kiu-reflective-bike-poncho. I had 
the back under my rear end since my saddle had a (quite soaked) cover on. 
I'm sure any poncho or garbage bag would truly be fine, this just had a lot 
of features that were v functional for me. I felt like I was in a little 
cocoon of reflectivity and water-repellent safety.

2. Randi Jo Fabrications saddle cover on my leather saddle kept it d r y 
despite being locked up in the rain for over an hour. I'm pretty sure I 
found out about RJF from you fine folx, so many hat tips to you.

On Monday, November 21, 2022 at 11:05:16 PM UTC-5 R. Alexis wrote:

> The grips should come off fine. Just stick a slim, long flat screwdriver 
> under it, then spray some alcohol in under it to loosen it. Should slide 
> off fine. Can use the same solution or hairspray to slide on new bars. 
>
> Thanks,
>
> Reginald Alexis
>
> On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 2:05:28 PM UTC-6 Stephanie A. wrote:
>
>> @Robb: that's one stout looking front  bag!
>>
>> @Shoji: for me it's my torso--I need to be able to move forward and 
>> stretch out or sit more upright with my hands farther back. Straight bars 
>> aren't giving me the versatility I want. I've tried to get the grips off 
>> and think I may end up taking an exacto knife to them and peeling them off.
>>
>> @Roberta: thank you! I don't know if I'm pushing what she's meant to 
>> carry, weight wise. I haven't had any trouble yet, except for maneuvering 
>> her fully loaded when I'm off the bike!
>>
>> Here she is, fully loaded today with ballet stuff in the front and the 
>> too-warm jacket I started with stuffed into the slimsucker.
>>
>> [image: 4DEAAB68-0D7D-426C-BA65-EC321ACBB5C6.jpeg]
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 9:25:44 PM UTC-5 Roberta wrote:
>>
>>> Love the look of your bike. It’s even so much better when it’s “just 
>>> perfect”. Dyno-  yes, absolutely the best. Enjoy the ride!
>>>
>>> I’m sending you a PM about tires. I have a barely ridden pair that you 
>>> might be interested in. Check your spam folder if not in your inbox by 
>>> midnight. 
>>>
>>> Roberta
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:08:26 PM UTC-5 Stephanie A. wrote:
>>>
 Sorry, apparently my posts are too long.

 Here's what I'm still looking to change:

 1. Handlebars! Maybe Chocos or Albatross for more hand positions and 
 real estate, but I think that'll also need a different stem.

 2. Dynam

 3. I have really small hands, so trigger shifters for the rear have 
 been a nice change from the brifters I had that were a reach for me on old 
 bikes. I wonder if any other shifters or brake levers would work even 
 better?

 4. I'll get studded schwalbes for snow, but are there any recs for 
 700cx38 that are good for road that sometimes becomes mud or sand when 
 going around people on the greenway? My stock tires are Kenda. 

 5. Paul Motolites

 6. Generally adding more chaotic color throughout

 7. Longer fenders

 Anywho. We'll see how this goes! This group has been such a great 
 place to look up options and read your reflections on biking and gear and 
 life. I had wanted a Platypus, but I'm having a lot of fun playing around 
 with this bike to make it my own.


 On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-5 Stephanie A. wrote:

> Handlebar and basket bags: As great as the basket is, I sometimes 
> carry more or oddly sized items that took forever to lash down securely 
> in 
> the basket. I went for a saddle bag that could also be used as a 
> handlebar 
> bag: Road Runner Bags' Jammer Bag. The water resistance is A+. The bag 
> looks cool as heck. But it took too long for me to get on and off and it 
> can get in the way of my headlight. The Wizard Works WizViz Alakazam bag 
> has solved all of my problems.
>
> Saddle: I'm used to a racing saddle. Against all of my knowledge and 
> 

Re: [RBW] SunTour Rachet Bar Ends shifting a Modern RD - Need to Trim??

[Bill Schairer]

John,
Suntour ratchet shifters will pull enough for your seven speed cassette.  I 
have used them up to 10 speed.

My take on trimming is that the modern chains and cassettes are the main 
factor in nearly eliminating the need to trim.  Muscle memory will take 
care of most of the rest.  I rotate regularly between 4 different bikes 
(two Suntour ratchet bar-ends and two downtube) all in friction mode so my 
muscle memory gets kinda messed up moving from one bike to another but it 
usually does not take long for me to get in sync. If stick with one for a 
while, trimming is generally not an issue.  I rode my Atlantis this past 
summer on a two month tour shifting a 9 speed 12-36 cassette with a Suntour 
ratchet bar end-shifter and honestly don't remember trimming but I'm sure I 
did from time to time.  I have also heard plenty of indexed systems that 
sure could've used some trimming.  I've also found that shifting up the 
cassette can be smoother if I make the shift under more power than in the 
old days. Sometimes I think that if Shimano had done the chain and cog 
engineering first, there might have been little need to do the shifter 
engineering for indexing. 

For whatever it is worth, I shift a LOT, I think more than most that I've 
ridden with who use indexed.

Bill S
San Diego

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 8:23:52 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Scott has covered this completely so I'll just add this from my experience 
> with various ratcheting style shifters: I've never noticed the specific 
> number of clicks per cog, what I *have *noticed is the ratchet feature 
> makes the "I have to move the lever this much to get a clean shift" action 
> easier to nail. I can't explain why it helps me, but I always had better 
> luck with them than pure friction levers. 
>
>
> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:43:17 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:
>
>> John:
>>
>> I'll attempt to add to the valuable information Dave and Nick have 
>> shared...
>>
>> When thinking about compatibility with shifters, RDs, and cassettes; keep 
>> in mind the RD does whatever the shifter (index, ratchet, or friction) 
>> tells it to do, hence the "dummy" comment. So you can for the most part 
>> eliminate the RD from your compatibility question.
>>
>> Your Shimano 8 speed shifter works with your Shimano 7 speed cassette 
>> because the "indexing" in the shifter is matched with the spacing between 
>> the cassette cogs; hence one click, one shift. So when you click a shift 
>> the shifter pulls the cable an amount that causes the RD to move (inboard 
>> or outboard) an amount equivalent to the distance between the cogs of the 
>> cassette. On a Shimano 8 speed cassette the distance between cogs is 4.8 
>> mm, so each time you shift with a Shimano 8 speed indexed shifter the RD is 
>> going to move 4.8 mm inboard or outboard. Shimano 9 speed cassettes have 
>> the cogs spaced 4.34 mm apart. You can see the problem if you were to use, 
>> for example, a Shimano 9 speed indexed shifter with an 8 speed cassette 
>> (one shift would move RD 4.34 mm, not the needed 4.8 mm between 8 speed 
>> cassette cogs) Your 8 speed shifter works on the 7 speed cassette because a 
>> limit screw on the RD doesn't allow it to move the full distance into the 
>> 8th position and the distance between cogs on a 7 speed cassette are the 
>> same as 8 speed: 4.8 mm. Indexing (space between cogs) is the same between 
>> Shimano 7 and 8 speed, so they play well together. If you were to use a 
>> cassette from a different manufacturer in which the distance between cogs 
>> was different from that of a Shimano cassette, then you'd likely run into a 
>> compatibility issue with your 8 speed shifter/non-Shimano cassette 
>> (assuming cog spacing was different from an 8 speed Shimano cassette).
>>
>> One can almost look at a friction shifter as allowing infinite 
>> adjustment. Riders that are good with them almost develop an indexing in 
>> their head/hand feel then fine tune after a shift. No indexing to a 
>> friction shifter so you can run a friction shifter with any make/speed 
>> cassette. Just have to find the sweet spot yourself.
>>
>> The ratchets move the shift cable in little bits (and the RD in little 
>> bits) I believe (I've never ran them. Someone, please, correct me if I'm 
>> wrong). So each click moves the shift cable a certain amount that in turn 
>> moves the RD a certain amount. You'd have to do some research to find out 
>> how much the RD moves with each click of your 1975s and then do some math. 
>> You know, at least with your Shimano 7 speed cassette, the cogs are spaced 
>> 4.8 mm apart. How much does the 1975 shifter move the RD each click? For 
>> perfect shifting on the 7 speed (or 8) cassette, the clicks (one, two, or 
>> three)/RD movement would have to add up to intervals of 4.8 mm. I doubt 
>> that's going to be the case, but fortunately there's a little wiggle room 
>> short of perfect that will obtain satisfactory shifting. At least 

Re: [RBW] SunTour Rachet Bar Ends shifting a Modern RD - Need to Trim??

['Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch]

 Clarification/correction to my previous post on this thread.
John:
I previously stated cog spacing for 7 and 8 speed Shimano cassettes is the same 
at 4.8 mm. In fact, Shimano 7 and 8 speed cassettes have different spacing.
Correction: cog spacing for Shimano 7 speed cassettes is 5 mm and for 8 speed 
is 4.8 mm. 

Check out this dandy spacing chart on Sheldon Brown's website: 
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
I bet your 1975 shifters work just fine with the 7 speed cassette, since your 
ratchet shifters are more like a friction shifter than an index shifter, 
allowing you a bit of fine tune/trim after a gear shift to find the chain's 
happy spot on cog. And the little extra spacing between cogs should favor you 
being able to find a sweet spot once a shift is made.

Happy shifting,
Scott in terrible roads Montana






On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 09:23:58 PM MST, Joe Bernard 
 wrote:  
 
 Scott has covered this completely so I'll just add this from my experience 
with various ratcheting style shifters: I've never noticed the specific number 
of clicks per cog, what I have noticed is the ratchet feature makes the "I have 
to move the lever this much to get a clean shift" action easier to nail. I 
can't explain why it helps me, but I always had better luck with them than pure 
friction levers. 

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:43:17 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:

 John:
I'll attempt to add to the valuable information Dave and Nick have shared...
When thinking about compatibility with shifters, RDs, and cassettes; keep in 
mind the RD does whatever the shifter (index, ratchet, or friction) tells it to 
do, hence the "dummy" comment. So you can for the most part eliminate the RD 
from your compatibility question.
Your Shimano 8 speed shifter works with your Shimano 7 speed cassette because 
the "indexing" in the shifter is matched with the spacing between the cassette 
cogs; hence one click, one shift. So when you click a shift the shifter pulls 
the cable an amount that causes the RD to move (inboard or outboard) an amount 
equivalent to the distance between the cogs of the cassette. On a Shimano 8 
speed cassette the distance between cogs is 4.8 mm, so each time you shift with 
a Shimano 8 speed indexed shifter the RD is going to move 4.8 mm inboard or 
outboard. Shimano 9 speed cassettes have the cogs spaced 4.34 mm apart. You can 
see the problem if you were to use, for example, a Shimano 9 speed indexed 
shifter with an 8 speed cassette (one shift would move RD 4.34 mm, not the 
needed 4.8 mm between 8 speed cassette cogs) Your 8 speed shifter works on the 
7 speed cassette because a limit screw on the RD doesn't allow it to move the 
full distance into the 8th position and the distance between cogs on a 7 speed 
cassette are the same as 8 speed: 4.8 mm. Indexing (space between cogs) is the 
same between Shimano 7 and 8 speed, so they play well together. If you were to 
use a cassette from a different manufacturer in which the distance between cogs 
was different from that of a Shimano cassette, then you'd likely run into a 
compatibility issue with your 8 speed shifter/non-Shimano cassette (assuming 
cog spacing was different from an 8 speed Shimano cassette).
One can almost look at a friction shifter as allowing infinite adjustment. 
Riders that are good with them almost develop an indexing in their head/hand 
feel then fine tune after a shift. No indexing to a friction shifter so you can 
run a friction shifter with any make/speed cassette. Just have to find the 
sweet spot yourself.

The ratchets move the shift cable in little bits (and the RD in little bits) I 
believe (I've never ran them. Someone, please, correct me if I'm wrong). So 
each click moves the shift cable a certain amount that in turn moves the RD a 
certain amount. You'd have to do some research to find out how much the RD 
moves with each click of your 1975s and then do some math. You know, at least 
with your Shimano 7 speed cassette, the cogs are spaced 4.8 mm apart. How much 
does the 1975 shifter move the RD each click? For perfect shifting on the 7 
speed (or 8) cassette, the clicks (one, two, or three)/RD movement would have 
to add up to intervals of 4.8 mm. I doubt that's going to be the case, but 
fortunately there's a little wiggle room short of perfect that will obtain 
satisfactory shifting. At least there is more wiggle room with 4.8 mm spacing 
than there is with 4.34 mm (Shimano 9 speed casette).I guess one could look at 
ratchet shifting as being somewhere between indexing (one click, one shift) and 
friction (infinite adjustment) shifting.

Your research task: find out how much RD moves with each ratchet of your 1975s. 
Then you'll be able to better assess compatibility with different cassettes of 
any maker/speed, as long as you get the respective cog spacing. For the 
compatibility issue you are inquiring about, the RD isn't really part of the 
puzzle, so eliminate it.

Sheldon Brown's website 

Re: [RBW] Who is getting a Platypus?

[Roberta]

Congratulations on your new ride. I love it and the sentiment in your post. 
And, welcome to the forum. 

Can you share the mirror brand and model? I like it’s extension. 

I wish you many, many happy hours of riding. I’m looking forward to hearing 
your impressions.  

Roberta 

On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 8:42:45 PM UTC-5 Masa wrote:

> Hello, I live in Tokyo and have been a fan of Rivendell since luckily my 
> local bike shop is Blue Lug! The other day I finally got my Platypus as my 
> first Riv.
>
> I found that Leah mentioned about my Instagram post on the other thread 
> and really appreciate that.
>
> It was just my understanding what Grant (and the mechanic who built my 
> Platty from Blue Lug) like to tell the owners of  Riv. So it’s not my 
> original but just a reflection :)
>
> Masa
>

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[RBW] Re: What dual short/long pull brake levers are out there?

[Corwin Zechar]

Paul has a lever that's a little overkill for you. It's called the duplex 
lever 
. 
If you look at the picture, it gives you an excellent idea of the 
difference between short and long pull levers. It's all in the placement of 
the pivot point. Longer pivot means more cable pull. The duplex lever will 
actually actuate both brakes simultaneously. The duplex lever is made for 
bike polo. So you can ride with one hand and hit the ball (via a long 
handled mallet) with the other.

Another option would be to get two levers - one short pull and one long 
pull - such as the Paul Love lever and the Paul Canti lever. These are 
pricey options, I admit - but stuff like this can often be had for much 
less than the MSRP if you look in places like eBay.

Good luck with your build.

Corwin

On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 2:42:43 PM UTC-8 esoter...@gmail.com wrote:

> Howdy all,
>
> I'm in need of a matching pair of brake levers that are interchangeable 
> between short pull and long pull. Because of a front rack non-compatibility 
> issue with my current canti brakes, I'll have to use a v-brake in front, 
> but I'd to keep the canti brake in the rear.
>
> I'm aware of the Shimano BLR780 which Riv sells, but ideally I'd like 
> something with a longer lever body. Does anyone know of any other levers, 
> by Shimano or any other brand, that has the criteria that I'm looking for? 
> Thanks,
>
> ~Mark
> Raleigh, NC
>

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