[RBW] Re: First Riv consideration

[Piaw Na]

On Monday, October 21, 2024 at 9:08:09 PM UTC-7 grbi...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks everyone.. I had a great chat with Vince today and he patiently 
answered all my questions. Ultimately it comes down if I need more load 
carrying capacity - if yes, then perhaps Sam is a better choice.. which 
means I will have to import it from Blue Lug...I do not know how much any 
customs/duty will cost. Or simply try to snag a CHG and keep the loads on 
the bike to less than 15 lbs.. or n+1 bike:) 

By the way, Vince did say that ever since the NYer article came out about 
Riv & Grant, the interest in Riv has increased and possibly CHG might get 
sold within seconds..!



 Unless you're super heavy, that 15 pounds probably won't overload the 
bike. The rider weight limit on the frame is 220 pounds! The only time when 
I ever had trouble with a road bike was when I was towing 60 pounds of load 
in a trailer on my Ti road bike (which was so flexy my 200 pound friends 
said they saw the fork visibly flex when they test rode it!). Steel bikes 
don't fail catastrophically, and I treat my Roadini the way other people 
treat their MTBs.


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Re: [RBW] Commuting lights in 2024?

[Piaw Na]

I'm the exception. I switched to battery lights from dynamo hubs/lights. I 
get flats more frequently at night than during the day, and ended up having 
to carry a battery light anyway to fix the flat. In which case I might as 
well just use the battery light all the time. Unlike other people I do not 
ever forget to charge my battery lights.

My preferred tail-light is the Garmin Varia Radar, which easily justifies 
its premium over regular lights by providing info about cars coming up 
behind me. This is especially useful when touring, letting me know it's 
safe to ride out into the lane to take pictures of my cycling companions.

My recommended headlight right now is the Energizer X400. 
(https://amzn.to/40eBalS). It is bright, unforgiving of people who forget 
to charge things (somehow people never seem to forget to charge their 
smartphones though!), water resistant, and the mount never fails. I buy 
them for my mother in law, my wife, my kids, etc. On sale you can get them 
for $16, but the regular price of $20 also doesn't sting.

On Tuesday, October 22, 2024 at 3:53:50 PM UTC-7 Peter Adler wrote:

> Reelights are awesome; I had them on my pack mule for years, until I 
> accidentally smashed the headlight putting the front wheel into a bike rack 
> (kind of an obvious risk for a QR/dropout-mounted light). Given that the 
> induction system powers the light by moving spoke-mounted magnets past the 
> induction coil in the light (the faster the wheels rotate, the brighter the 
> lights), I took the two no-longer-used used lights off the front wheel and 
> moved them to the rear wheel, doubling the number of magnets. Presto! 
> Taillight's twice as bright. 
>
> Reelight sells all the elements of their systems (mounting brackets, 
> magnets etc) as separate items, in addition to the complete light kits. The 
> problem for US buyers is that the Danish company doesn't appear to have a 
> US distributor; although they have frequent sales/specials (20-30% 
> discounts are common, and occasional 50% ones), the shipping to the US is 
> brutal.
>
> The lights (especially the headlights) are be-seen lights for well-lit 
> urban areas, but every little bit helps. At some point, I'll swallow hard 
> and pay the ruinous shipping for a new non-flash kit with disc mounting 
> brackets to get away from my panniers and double/triple up on the magnets. 
> Might even try mounting the old rear light with all the magnets I have and 
> spinning it around, just to see how much juice the lights can handle.
>
> On the larger issue: Generator/dynamo lights rule, full stop. No matter 
> what the generator system. If you ride a lot at night, as I do, few things 
> are more awful than having a battery light die on you just when you need it 
> most. It's like there's a dybbuk somewhere waiting for cyclists to be in a 
> dicey night situation, and draining their batteries out of malice, through 
> dark sorcery.
>
> Peter "let there be non-battery light" Adler
> Berkeley, CA
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 22, 2024 at 10:32:29 AM UTC-7 Eric Norris wrote:
>
> If you’re interested in a non-battery solution, I can recommend this 
> taillight from Reelight: 
> https://reelight.com/en-us/collections/battery-free-lights/products/nova 
>
> I’ve had one on a bike for several years, and it’s always worked 
> perfectly. The headlights aren’t very bright, and are best used for 
> visibility. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Quality control

[Piaw Na]

I will also note that essentially all bicycles are handmade, whether 
they're carbon, steel or 
aluminum. https://theradavist.com/all-bicycles-are-handmade/


On Monday, October 21, 2024 at 12:59:01 PM UTC-7 Brian Forsee wrote:

> To my knowledge, Riv does not manufacture anything themselves. They enter 
> into contracts with various manufacturers to make their products to a 
> determined specification. The burden of QC falls on the manufacturer, so 
> that will look different for the company that is making the frames vs the 
> bags vs hub vs whatever.
>
> My take/assumption is that Riv partners with high quality manufacturers 
> that have the same attention to detail/quality that Riv has and designs 
> into their bikes. Certainly QC is a discussion between Riv and their mfgs. 
> The fact that staff perform visits to Maxxway and work through issues 
> (Roaduno packaging comes to mind) is a testament to this.
>
>
> Brian
>
> On Monday, October 21, 2024 at 2:13:17 PM UTC-5 aeroperf wrote:
>
>> I saw this posted on another group (bicycletouring) - “How does Rivendell 
>> maintain quality control across its production line, especially with hand 
>> made elements?”
>>
>> As an owner of a 10 year-old Sam, which still looks and rides like new, 
>> it struck me that I, too, would be interested to know.  
>> Is it because they pick really good manufacturers to build their frames? 
>>  Is it because their bikes are overbuilt?  Is it because they are skilled 
>> at matching components?  Do they put in a lot of extra effort with 
>> inspections?  All of the above?
>>
>> Or is it an indeterminate question?
>>
>> Nobody has posted a reply to the question on bicycletouring yet. 
>>  Thoughts?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Quality control

[Piaw Na]

Rivendell uses Maxway, the same company Ritchey uses. You can read/see 
pictures about their manufacturing process 
here: 
https://theradavist.com/taichung-taiwan-is-a-bicycling-manufacturing-mecca/

Long and short, these folks do high volume and actually have the scale 
necessary to get it done right. There are standards for road bikes, 
mountain bikes and gravel bikes and it's not a coincidence that nearly all 
these steel brands provide the same weight limits for all their bikes (220 
pounds) no matter how overbuilt their steel tubing spec is.

In any case, I don't worry too much about my bikes --- if the frame dies 
they die because they've lived a long hard life and made many happy 
memories.

On Monday, October 21, 2024 at 12:13:17 PM UTC-7 aeroperf wrote:

> I saw this posted on another group (bicycletouring) - “How does Rivendell 
> maintain quality control across its production line, especially with hand 
> made elements?”
>
> As an owner of a 10 year-old Sam, which still looks and rides like new, it 
> struck me that I, too, would be interested to know.  
> Is it because they pick really good manufacturers to build their frames? 
>  Is it because their bikes are overbuilt?  Is it because they are skilled 
> at matching components?  Do they put in a lot of extra effort with 
> inspections?  All of the above?
>
> Or is it an indeterminate question?
>
> Nobody has posted a reply to the question on bicycletouring yet.  Thoughts?

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[RBW] Re: Chain length

[Piaw Na]

Bill's method will not work for 1x. Shimano's specifications are big 
sprocket and chainring + 5-6 links.

On Friday, October 18, 2024 at 10:56:13 AM UTC-7 DavidP wrote:

> Yes - bypass the rear derailleur when wrapping the cog.
>
> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html#chain
> https://www.parktool.com/en-us/blog/repair-help/chain-length-sizing
>
> -Dave
>
> On Friday, October 18, 2024 at 1:46:30 PM UTC-4 Ray Varella wrote:
>
>> Just to clarify my understanding and perhaps anyone else who isn’t 100% 
>> clear, the Big/Big plus two links is done without the chain running through 
>> the derailer, right?
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> On Friday, October 18, 2024 at 10:32:05 AM UTC-7 Mike Godwin wrote:
>>
>>> I second Bill's method, has worked for me on all bikes for decades.
>>>
>>> Mike SLO CA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 16, 2024 at 11:22:28 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 I always just use the St Sheldon method and use what I have to use, on 
 whatever the bike.  big+big+2 links.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Wednesday, October 16, 2024 at 9:42:04 AM UTC-7 DavidP wrote:

> My 60cm Platypus with 46t big ring and 34t big cog took 116+12 links. 
> I used two 116 link chains and two quick links and kept the remnants of 
> the 
> second one for future use.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Wednesday, October 16, 2024 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-4 
> wesley.a...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> A big ring like that up front is going to require a long chain. With 
>> 118 links, I've got just enough for a Homer running a 34/24 and 
>> something 
>> similar for the cassette. E-bike chains are a good shout for sure: 
>> https://kmcchain.us/collections/e-bike-9-speed/products/e9
>> On Saturday, October 12, 2024 at 9:50:48 AM UTC-5 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m have been using a KMC 10 speed e-bike chain. 136 links. I only 
>>> removed 2 for my Clem with 34/24 rings and 11-42 cassette. As an extra 
>>> bonus, they last forever!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 12, 2024 at 3:02:11 AM UTC-7 
>>> okeeffe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Hi,
 I was wondering what your experience with chain length was. Since 
 RBW frames have pretty long chain stays, what length chain do you tend 
 to 
 run?. For information I'm using a 48-38 in front and 11-34 at the back 
 on a 
 '24 Sam.
 Cheers!
 Cormac



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[RBW] Re: Cycling caps: useful or merely decorative?

[Piaw Na]

On Tuesday, October 1, 2024 at 11:28:24 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:


Who on list uses cycling caps for cycling?

I use cycling caps for cycling, but only in Europe, where the long climbs I 
visit and generally competent and polite drivers mean that I'm willing to 
ride without a helmet but still need a hat to keep sun off my face and wick 
sweat away. I have a decent collection of UV-faded cotton caps, but most 
recently have switched to the Walsh technical caps which don't fade, are 
lighter, and fit better. (before you ask, yes, I do carry a helmet and 
switch to wearing one for the big descents that come with the big climbs, 
and my accompanying stokers frequently also do without helmets on climbs 
and I don't give them a hard time about imitating me)

In the USA, where I don't trust the drivers, I ride with a sweat band under 
my helmet. I've tried the caps but in general they don't fit too good when 
stuffed inside a helmet.

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[RBW] Re: Knicker Quest

[Piaw Na]

My current favorite are the wolfskin 3/4 
shorts: https://blog.piaw.net/2023/01/mens-carpis.html

They're insanely expensive and the blog post I wrote above includes a link 
to a cheaper (and in some ways better, with zippered pockets) available on 
Amazon.

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 10:59:17 AM UTC-8 Deacon Patrick wrote:

> Och! Me knickers are in a twist! Sardonic grin. I am looking for knickers 
> to ride in and for daily wear (so not cycling spandex knickers, but more in 
> the spirit of Riv’s knickers of yore)
>
> My requirements are:
>
> — casual/dressy look and fit (if they fit like jeans, I’m golden)
> — loose enough to allow squatting and floor sitting, but not baggy
> — quiet as cotton
> — belt loop for 1.5” belt (like jeans)
> — Elastic at the knee
> — cool, breathable
>
> The two I’ve found that may fit the bill are:
>
> Zoik Reign: 
> https://www.competitivecyclist.com/zoic-reign-bike-knicker-mens?skidn=ZOI004S-BK-M&ti=UExQIENhdDpNZW4ncyBDeWNsaW5nIEtuaWNrZXJzOjE6OTpjY0NhdDEwMDIyNg==
>
> and Compass: 
> https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/compass-knickers-2016/
>
> Others I should look into?
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.CredoFamily.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>

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Re: [RBW] The Lightest Rivendell

[Piaw Na]

Shimano now makes the ES-600 which weigh 280g. REI currently has them on 
sale for $75. My Roadini that I built without particularly light parts came 
to 23 pounds with a Topeak mini morph, bottle cage, and pedals 
(https://blog.piaw.net/2022/10/putting-together-my-roadini.html). My 
suspicion is I can shave a couple of pounds by going with my now favored 
Neugent TwoTwoX EZ Mount Wheels.

On Friday, August 30, 2024 at 11:03:36 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I've been using the ineffably wonderful Dura Ace SPD pedals (MTB-type 
> pedals but 1-sided) for years and I even use them on the stripped-down, 
> 18-lb gofast fixed gear, but I could drop 1/4 lb by swapping them for the 
> Xpedos that I've been hoarding, also for years, because they are so light: 
> about 250 grams the pair to the DA's 360. This model of the Xpedos has 
> titanium spindles with a 185 lb official weight limit -- this has the 
> aluminum body, not the ultra-chi-chi magnesium body. I'm at least 10 and 
> perhaps 15 lb below that but I've hesitated to install them since 
> occasionally I torque the pedals considerably when climbing -- tho' at my 
> age this torque has much diminished. And the Xpedos are 2-sided to boot.
>
>
>> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 2:38:06 PM UTC-7 char...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
> Oh ho! I'm actually attempting to build a (relatively) lightweight Roadeo 
>>> but with 2 caveats – as much silver and no carbon I've gotten it to 
>>> about 21 1/2 pounds but aiming for sub 20... Appreciate any 
>>> thoughts/suggestions.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Help me lighten up Sam

[Piaw Na]

On Thursday, July 25, 2024 at 5:48:37 AM UTC-7 Will Boericke wrote:

I think your best opportunity there are wheels and saddle.  Is it worth 
asking if the dynamo and lights get used enough to be worth the weight 
penalty? If you want lighter touring, maybe frame bags might save some 
weight over racks and panniers. I don't know that you're going to shave a 
bunch of weight off.  


It's definitely worth considering changing your style of touring if 
expedition-style touring is not for you. I've flipped between 
expedition-style touring and credit-card touring over the years, and I will 
say that the credit card style lets you be much more aggressive with your 
routes and choice of bike than carrying camping gear, stove, and sleeping 
bag.  
(https://blog.piaw.net/2008/02/cycle-touring-and-spriit-of-adventure.html)

This summer 
(photos: 
https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/F4vBBQH_RoiPwZuocdYhiw.-TzKRm6CSeV0PmNYEtKNg5),
 
my 9-year-old son and I did a 823 mile tour with 73000+' of climbing in the 
Swiss, Italian, and Austrian alps. No way could we have done this much 
while carrying camping gear. (Note: our tandem was 45 pounds empty!) One 
day in Bormio we asked the local bike shop (Stelvio experience) if the dirt 
route from Lago Cancano to Livigno was doable on road bikes. The 
unequivocal answer from the shop was "No! Maybe with mountain bikes." We 
chose to do it anyway and the route required 45 minutes of intermittently 
pushing the bike up a dirt road and a 2km descent losing 600m of elevation. 
At the Livigno lake a mountain biker looked at us and said: "Wow! You did 
that with rim brakes on a tandem?!!"

I've ridden expedition-style down the Pacific Coast (a much milder choice 
of route) and enjoyed it thoroughly, but I will be the first to tell you 
that a credit-card tour with a road style bike in the alps beats that in 
intensity, beauty, and fun. Both the book Jobst Ride Bike 
(https://blog.piaw.net/2023/11/review-jobst-brandt-ride-bike.html) and Gary 
Erickson's "Raising the Bar" 
(https://blog.piaw.net/2008/06/raising-bar-revisited.html) explains the 
appeal and method their approach brings. (Though now that I've read Jobst 
Brandt Ride Bike I realize that Erickson was actually a Jobst acolyte and 
was supposed to tour with him one year but Jobst got injured and couldn't 
take him)

Piaw

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Re: [RBW] Recommend me a ride in Marin or nearby?

[Piaw Na]

I recommend any of the Marin Headlands rides that the Western Wheelers 
organize. Routesheets/GPS tracks are 
here: 
https://westernwheelersbicycleclub.wildapricot.org/page-1859035#LDT_Marin_Headlands

On Monday, June 10, 2024 at 9:52:35 AM UTC-7 vhans...@gmail.com wrote:

> There a set of fire roads that go around Lake Lagunites, that the locals 
> call the Lazy Lakes Ride.  About 4-6 miles.You can drive to the ranger 
> station for Lake Lagunites.  Conversely you start at Phoenix Lake and there 
> is a pretty significant climb to Lake Lagunites.   
>
> Have fun. 
>
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2024 at 11:14 PM  wrote:
>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> My son wants me to take him riding in Marin or the bay somewhere for a 
>> day. He’s newly experimenting with riding a semi-loaded bikepacking rig in 
>> anticipation of attempting a solo three day trip at the end of summer. He 
>> is 15 (almost 16) and will be riding on a loaner VO Piolet. I will be 
>> riding my older Atlantis set up with Super Yummy gravel tires. Any 
>> recommendations of a pretty ride that’s not just all climbing or too 
>> sketchy? My fitness level isn’t what his is. 
>> You can reply directly if you choose.
>>
>> Thanks, Liz in Sac
>>
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>>
>
>
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> *Schmier Industrial Properties*
> *o:  510-652-0800 <(510)%20652-0800>*
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[RBW] Re: Rim recommendations for easy tire changes

[Piaw Na]

I got a pair of the EZ Mount wheels from Neugent cycling for my wife's new 
road bike. They live up to their name.

On Friday, June 7, 2024 at 10:18:28 AM UTC-7 aeroperf wrote:

> Velocity Atlas are also easy to change.
> Sometimes it’s the tires, not the rim.  Schwalbe Marathon, I’m looking at 
> you.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: DIY build or order complete?

[Piaw Na]

I've been building my own bikes since 2007. It's not nearly as hard as 
building a wheel. The only issue I can see is the the Sam Hillborne runs 
cantilever/v-brakes, which have never worked out for me (I only buy 
sidepull brake bikes to sidestep that problem). I recently built my wife's 
bike. During the build due to bad lighting in my garage I assembled the 
microshift bar-end wrong in such a way that the lever throw was half of 
what it should have been. I scratched my head and rode it to the bike shop, 
where the mechanic diagnosed the problem while telling me that it's silly 
to put MTB derailleurs and a 1x drivetrain on my wife's road bike. But they 
were about to close up shop. I decided to just ride the bike back home, 
undo the shifter/derailleur cable assembly and redo it (which took all of 
15 minutes) and now the bike's perfect and she's setting PRs on her commute.

The lesson:

   - Have good lighting in your workshop. Saves lots of time.
   - Don't worry about assembling the bike. Modern bikes are easy and 
   modern parts even easier. (I avoid the square taper BB sfor that reason)
   - The only way to get the parts you want on a bike is to buy them 
   yourself and assemble it yourself. I've had reputable shops like R&E cycles 
   refuse to custom build a road bike with a 1x drivetrain. I do it myself and 
   have no complaints about my mechanic refuse to do entirely reasonable 
   things.


On Tuesday, May 28, 2024 at 8:32:14 AM UTC-7 Michael wrote:

> Hi all, 
> Ordered a Sam as my first Riv but unsure whether or not I should tackle 
> building it up myself or just let Riv have at it. I have never built a bike 
> before but I do have a workshop and am good with tools/mechanically 
> inclined. 
>
> Are there any specific steps that you would absolutely not recommend a 
> beginner attempt? By the time i purchase specialty tools, it may have been 
> wiser to just order it complete? 
>
> Let me know what you guys think, I really don't want to do something 
> stupid!
>
> Thanks,
>

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Re: [RBW] Long wheelbase = long chain

[Piaw Na]

You can't do that if you're using 11s or more. Rejoining 11s and up chains 
using a chain breaker is not recommended. My "trick" is to buy 11s chains 
at $10/pop when they go on sale once a year and a bunch of quick links at 
the same time.

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:31:11 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian wrote:

> If you have certainty that you won't swap a drivetrain, simply buy two 
> chains. The second chain will be enough to populate several chain 
> replacements, granted they are of the same chain. No need to use two quick 
> links either, if you have a chain breaker and know how to use it. 
>
> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:18:44 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Count how many links you have now. Call Will & Riv & he will use their 
>> bulk chain to send you one the correct length. EZPZ. Cheaper than buying 
>> two & easier.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2024, at 10:58 AM, Edwin W  wrote:
>>
>> I have a Joe Appa with long chain stays, which necessitates a long 
>> chain, longer than a single chain.
>>
>>
>> For all of you out there with a long chain bike, what are your best 
>> tips/tricks/techniques for purchasing a chain. Where do you go for a long 
>> chain?
>>
>> What else do you think about with chain replacement, maintenance, etc...
>>
>> Lifelong learner, breaking cobbled together chains,
>>
>> Edwin
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: 54.5 Homer: 700c or 650b?

[Piaw Na]

On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 7:56:30 AM UTC-7 nca...@gmail.com wrote:

@aero and @hoch: I am selling my customized Salsa Vaya 55cm (700c) to fund 
this purchase, and the Homer would be my only bicycle (I say that now). I 
don't have any specific tires in mind and I wouldn't have any other wheels 
to swap out. There seems to be several 42-44 tires that would fit my riding 
needs for 650b, and clearly a *lot* more for 700c. 


For me this is the big deal about 650b. There are basically no tires 
narrower than 38mm for the 650b, whereas if you want to run 28->32mm tires 
700c has a huge offering.  For my wife and son commuting in suburban 
pavement 28->32mm is the sweet spot and 650b isn't a good option by 
comparison.

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Piaw Na]

I haven't seen the Gallop's geometry,. Can you post it?

As for Leah's original question, my wife rode a Cheviot but after she rode 
my son's Roadini to work a few weeks she decided that she really liked the 
Roadini better.

We're still vainly hunting for a 50cm Roadini, but the other bikes I'm 
considering are the Ritchey Logic Road (max 30mm tires, short chainstays), 
the Crust Malochio (mismatched brakes are putting me off but what's worse 
is that it has 650b wheels in her sizes which limits choice of fast tires), 
and the Soma Pescadero (compromised handling geometry compared with the 
Roadini). We'll probably have to decide this summer as to whether to wait 
for the Roadini or go for a Gallop. One more option is the R&E Cycles 
Rainier. All of these bikes would be bikes I would buy frame only because 
the Bay Area has specific riding needs that default drivetrains made for 
flat country are worthless for.

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 8:42:48 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> *- "Would they love it as a road bike? Or is it kind of all-purpose? 
> Thanks!"*
>
> Rivendell makes stuff to be pretty flexible so even the Roadeo "could" be 
> built out to be kind of all-purpose but the geometry and intent of the 
> Gallop is to be a road frame that replaces the Roadini. My prototype is 
> pretty light and very lively. I assume the production ones will be as well 
> because the geometry should be the same it just has a straight bar vs a 
> swoop. I think while its not a step through the angled bar will allow it to 
> be more flexible with fitting.
>
> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 11:07:13 AM UTC-4 leva...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Leah!
>>
>> I think you would dig a Crust Canti-Lightning Bolt as a complementary 
>> addition to your wonderful stable of Rivs - not only for the ride quality, 
>> but you can get a cool Lilac (with pink graphics) or Light Sea Green frame 
>> in your size now.  I own this bike, and it is light, quick, and fun to 
>> ride, and can easily accommodate up to a 650B x 48 tire.  But wait there’s 
>> more….in older Riv road bike style, the Canti-Bolts have flat top tubes, 
>> threaded headsets, and a gorgeous curved fork.  This is a low-trail Rando 
>> bike for sure - even the 650B wheels, etc.  This is a fun bike!  I’m a Riv 
>> head for sure, but I really enjoy a long faster road ride on the Crust 
>> every now and then.  
>>
>> Crustbikes.com
>>
>>
>> Good luck in your search,
>>
>> Guy
>> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 7:01:14 AM UTC-6 David Hays wrote:
>>
>>> Good morning Leah,
>>> I’m not sure where I read it but apparently Grant had at one point been 
>>> a fan of Mercians.
>>> A few years after I bought and built up my 650B Homer I found a used 
>>> Mercian KOM on Craigslist. I’ve since picked up another off the list and 
>>> had one purpose built for me. Very comfortable and fast. Some thing to 
>>> consider.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> David 
>>>
>>> On Apr 21, 2024, at 12:17 AM, Josiah Anderson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Leah,
>>>
>>> I'm also excited to hear about your journey towards a road bike; you 
>>> probably don't know it but your writing on this list was one of my main 
>>> influences towards ending up with a Riv. Drop bars and pavement are very 
>>> familiar, comfortable territory for me, and – like others have said here – 
>>> I still enjoy that type of riding at times.
>>>
>>> You're probably already familiar with him, but if not, I'd recommend 
>>> checking out some of Jan Heine's work – Bicycle Quarterly, *The 
>>> All-Road Bike Revolution,* his blog, etc. Bicycle Quarterly was my 
>>> point of departure from "mainstream" bike culture, and I came around to 
>>> appreciating Riv a bit later and now enjoy both approaches for different 
>>> rides. Jan is much more focused on speed than Grant is, but in what feels 
>>> to me like a healthy way. This is an old blog post that I think may be 
>>> worth a read, as it's an articulation of the same sort of perspective you 
>>> seem to be arriving at: 
>>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/riding-fast-is-fun/. Jan also wrote 
>>> somewhere (can't find it right now) about how he and Grant are good 
>>> friends, and he wanted to make it clear he's not dissing Riv by promoting 
>>> what he likes.
>>>
>>> I currently have two of what I'd call "really nice" bikes, a Gus 
>>> Boots-Willsen and a Crust Lightning Bolt (alongside moderately nice bikes 
>>> like a Bridgestone MB-3 and a dumpster-find Bianchi Volpe). The Gus is 
>>> "full-Riv" – friction shifting, Carradice saddlebag, weird bar wrap, etc – 
>>> and the Crust is full Bicycle Quarterly, with 42mm extralight tires, 
>>> low-trail geometry, Gilles Berthoud handlebar bag, and all that. (Jan is 
>>> not affiliated with Crust, but Crust designed the Lightning Bolt with his 
>>> preferences in mind). The two bikes are a perfect combination for my 
>>> current riding: there is enough crossover that both work great for 
>>> doubletrack rides, and the Gus is ideal for riding singletrack while th

[RBW] Re: Gearing Choices

[Piaw Na]

I'm a big fan of half-step + granny for 7-speed rear cassettes and 
freewheels. I think I even wrote an article about it for the Rivendell 
Reader at one point (good luck digging it up!). What killed it for me was 
once cassettes got to the point where constructing your cassette was no 
longer supported or too much work, it was no longer practical.

Around here in the Bay Area, I simply decided to go for the lowest gear 
possible, and live with suboptimal flat riding gearing. The reason for this 
is even if I can climb a 20% grade when fresh on a 34x34 drivetrain, there 
will come a day when I have to climb that grade tired, or when carrying a 
load, or when I just not feeling like working that hard. Going 1mph slower 
on the flat by contrast just doesn't bother me that much. Just the other 
day I took my wife on a ride up the Wallace Stegner trail. We'd hiked that 
trail a couple of times but to my surprise my computer read a 20% grade. 
Her ebike had to work to get over it and I got into my 40x51. Having that 
on my bike makes me more likely to ride trails like that. Those who live in 
places where 20+% grades are unusual or cannot be found probably won't 
bother with my low gears.

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[RBW] WTB 50cm Roadini

[Piaw Na]

My wife enjoyed riding the Roadini so much that when my son (for whom it 
was built) took it over she asked for her own. Since Rivendell no longer 
has them I'm now in the market for a Roadini 50cm. Frame only unless you've 
got it built up with 1x. (My wife never used the front derailleur on her 
Cheviot so there's no point having more than 1 chainring)

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[RBW] anyone else tried Ritchey Beacon Bars?

[Piaw Na]

I built up my son's Roadini with Ritchey Beacon Comp bars 
(https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/Hdny6ViFROaPcQIM_FkEbg.aW9haXdpnlfOy4Dg9_oNzx),
 
and I've had a few people test ride it. What impressed me about the bar was 
that despite purposefully not mentioning anything about the handlebars, 
everyone who's used the bike defaults to using the drops automatically. 
It's a great position, hybrid between regular drops and straight bars, and 
just to show how nice a bike the Roadini is, my wife used it on her commute 
a few days and now wants her own Roadini!

Like all Grant Petersen bikes, it's the kind of bike where the more you 
ride it the more you like it. I've noticed that about his designs since the 
Bridgestone RB-1. I still feel that the bike could use a lower BB 
(especially when shod with 38mm tires), but riding with 28mm tires makes 
the bike feel so agile.

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[RBW] tektro 559 left-right adjustment screw

[Piaw Na]

I went to adjust it on my son's Roadini today and discovered that it had 
fallen off (probably during an off-road excursion). What's the easiest way 
to get a replacement?


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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone else not a fan of the very long chainstays?

[Piaw Na]

What I’m reading is that most of you concur that Grant is not right all the 
time (with regards to bike design). Big companies are not right all the 
time. He’s right some of the time, as are the big companies. Answer, as 
always, is somewhere in the middle. 


I think it's laughable to think that there can exist such a thing as 
"right" with regards to bike design. It's always "right" for the intended 
rider's use. Some bikes have a very wide performance envelop or some users 
have a very narrow use case but demand perfection within that use case 
(think racers or downhill MTB folks). Not everyone will value the same 
thing. A beginner might not care for the refined Rivendell ride or even 
appreciate it for the carefully thought through geometry (which includes 
selection of tubing). An experienced rider might still consider weight far 
more important than the aesthetics that Grant values.

I consider myself very fortunate in that my use cases match almost 
precisely with the performance envelope Grant designs his bikes for. It 
didn't take long after I first test rode a 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 that I'd 
realized that this was a bike I could live with forever.  30 years later, 
his follow on bikes ride very similarly and are (for my use cases) even 
better. But that's a good 30 years in which I wasn't a Rivendell customer 
and was happily riding various other bikes (one of which is still my 
favorite 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 geometry with minor tweaks). But I have no 
illusions that what works for me works for others. My wife tried a Cheviot 
and immediately bought one because it felt like the bike she'd been riding 
all her life. My friend Arturo tried a Roadeo and immediately tried to buy 
one but since the wait time was too long ended up with a custom Lynskey 
built to the Roadeo's geometry. But a third friend tried my son's Roadini, 
and said something like: "Oh. It's in between my Trek FX2 and my Canyon 
Ultimate." She didn't think it was anything special and I think that's OK. 
What matters is that Rivendell bikes aren't everything for all people (and 
even for myself a big Rivendell fan, not all Rivendell bikes are for me). 
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone else not a fan of the very long chainstays?

[Piaw Na]

My Roadini has a 45cm chainstay. My custom touring bike has a 43cm 
chainstay. When riding it doesn't make a big difference --- I'm far more 
sensitive to the 5mm higher BB on the Roadini. When packing it to tour 2cm 
is not a huge difference either. The A Homer Hilsen has a whopping 50cm 
chainstay. At that point it'll be difficult to pack it into a box for 
flying, which was why I decided against the Hilsen. 

On Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at 10:24:27 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Garth got off the point with: "People do lament about modern frame/parts 
> design Bil"
>
> I am aware that there are forums for all kinds of bellyachers.  The 
> distinction I was making is that I know of no other brand that has a forum 
> of users like Rivendell.  In this Riv Group, the participants 
> self-assemble, and include those who like Rivendell in 2024, those who have 
> always liked Rivendell, and those who USED to like Rivendell but now 
> vigorously disapprove of Rivendell.  There's no other brand that gets that 
> kind of devotion.  There's no grumpy cyclist, riding a 1984 Trek 720, 
> chiming in on a current forum of Trek users, wailing "to hell with your 
> Emonda!  Trek should re-introduce investment cast lugs!"  
>
> That was point #1.  Point #2 is that even if Trek in 2024 is aware of that 
> pissed-of grouch on a 720, they don't give a crap about that person. 
>  Rivendell knows that lots of their former fans now hate them.  Rivendell 
> is flattered that you, Garth, are so devoted to your Bombadil, and so 
> aggrieved and offended by their evolution that you boycott them -AND- 
> continuously participate on the forum to repeat how disapproving you are. 
>  That kind of devotion is rare, and Rivendell respects and appreciates the 
> energy.  They sometimes get weary of it when the bellyachers want to yell 
> at them on the phone, because they've got work to do, but on the forum, 
> they love it.  When they built the Bombadil, they HOPED and PRAYED that it 
> would be loved and ridden for a century.  You are well on your way to 
> making their dream happen.  Keep it up!
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 4:40:42 PM UTC-8 Garth wrote:
>
>>
>> People do lament about modern frame/parts design Bill, and they do it 
>> @Bikeforums.net in mostly the classic & vintage section :) All vintage 
>> makes and models are talked about and bought and sold and very much 
>> prized/appreciated. It is by far the most active section of BF. There's a 
>> couple of members who regularly post .pdf scans of old cycling publications 
>> like Bicycling! magazine of most any bike that was reviewed at the time. 
>> Not just bikes of course but all the vintage parts too from how they work 
>> to how to tear down and repair them. It's a very diverse community that has 
>> the same polarizing topics as any other places, but it's broken down into 
>> vary sections to make it easier to post and find posts. Lots of riders who 
>> love anything "new" and lots that don't. 
>>
>> The demand and use for all kinds of bikes and parts Worlwide is far 
>> beyond anyone's means or abilities to count. Andel, likely the largest 
>> crank manufacturer in the World, has lots of traditional doubles and 
>> triples and they manufacture Riv's cranks for them. 
>>
>> As for the megastays, it is what it is. There's a whole lotta frames and 
>> makers to choose from. Thankfully there are other people/businesses 
>> interested in having steel frames(stock and custom), friction shifters and 
>> non-disc hubs made so there's very little if anything I shop @Riv for. 
>> On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 1:13:52 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> I promise you that Rivendell is flattered that nice people gather 
>>> themselves to complain about the former-models that Riv no longer makes. 
>>>  It shows a love for Rivendell that most other bike brands don't get. 
>>>  There's no Specialized google group where current Specialized fans are 
>>> griping about Rockhoppers and Sequoias.  All those nostalgic cyclists have 
>>> bailed on Specialized entirely.  
>>>
>>> What Rivendell does, and has always done, is build the bikes they want 
>>> to exist.  If you like one and want to buy it, great.  If you don't like 
>>> any of them and buy something else, that's also great.  They (Riv) does not 
>>> care about making money, except to the extent they can keep the lights on 
>>> and pay their people a modest living wage.  They do not care about growth. 
>>>  Actually, they probably have made up their minds that they can't grow. 
>>>  They know exactly how many bikes they can afford to sell, and they plan 
>>> out making that many bikes.  That very limited number of bikes is always 
>>> going to be "whatever they feel like making".  They count on the fact that 
>>> somebody is going to buy them, and it usually works out for them.  The 
>>> bikes they feel like making are bikes that don't exist anywhere else and/or 
>>> have never been made before.

Re: [RBW] Best Rivendell for pavement riding

[Piaw Na]

I own a 54cm Roadini (for myself) and a 50cm (for my son who will soon 
outgrow his Salsa Journeyman). I'd set up my Roadini as a gravel bike with 
wide tires but recently a friend borrowed my son's Roadini for her first 
ride over a dirt path in less than dry conditions I swapped the wheels on 
both bikes. Having done that work I decided to start riding the Roadini for 
my commute again, and it's such a nice bike for pavement riding. I would be 
very happy if the Roadini was the only bike I was allowed to ride. A 
wheel/tire swap is all it takes to switch its personality.

Picture of the 50mm gold Roadini with 40mm Conti Terraspeed 
tires: 
https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/9xe97P72TVC9kT6ezib43w.ApcagsQcybWcV2qpmaE8je
On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 9:46:26 AM UTC-8 cfic...@gmail.com wrote:

> Mathias, Max, Damien, thanks. A lot of good information in your posts. 
> Riding and experimenting with different models may be the only way to find 
> that "perfect" bike, if there is such a thing. I have to admit that I've 
> been riding an All City Space Horse for a while now, which I picked up to 
> see me through while I wait on the "right" Rivendell to become available. 
> It's actually very comfortable and stable, but a bit heavy for the hills. 
> The 52cm model I have has similar chainstay, wheelbase, head tube angle, 
> stack, and reach to a 50cm Roadini, so maybe I should be satisfied with 
> what I have? I don't know. I am rethinking the requirement I have had in my 
> mind for drop handlebars, though. Some of the Nitto bars (Losco, Choco, 
> Albastache) look like they could be fine for long distance road riding with 
> multiple positions that could mimic some of those of a drop bar. And they 
> might work better with the longish top tubes. 
>
> Chuck
>
> On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 12:27:31 PM UTC-5 Damien wrote:
>
>> I had a Sam up until recently but sold it and have very recently replaced 
>> with a Ram which I've yet to get out on (am going to swap out the Albatross 
>> currently on them for drop bars). Not sure what size you're looking at, but 
>> the thing for me was I wanted a 700c bike, and the Sam that fit me (51) was 
>> 650b. I had a Roadini in size 50 which was great, but ended up selling that 
>> and keeping the Sam as it better met my needs at the time (dragging kids 
>> around, carrying random stuff, more mixed terrain stuff). Sam is great, but 
>> didn't feel as quick (subjective) and was definitely more sluggish in its 
>> handling on road - felt a bit like overkill tbh. I attribute most of that 
>> to set up and the chunky tire size I was using on the Sam (650b x 48 on Sam 
>> vs. 700 x 32 on Roadini). I would say if you go with the Sam for your use, 
>> 42 would be the ideal tire size (as someone mentioned earlier!). 
>>
>> I can't wait to get out on the Ram to see how I like it, but if it's 
>> anything like the Roadini, I feel I'll be on a setup that makes sense for 
>> the type of riding that I do - which seems similar to the type of riding 
>> you'll be doing! Hope that is in some way helpful!
>> On Tuesday 5 March 2024 at 08:44:06 UTC-5 Max S wrote:
>>
>>> Really great points made by Mathias, and also by Patrick in his post 
>>> about iterating...  
>>> IMO, the easiest way to find a good bike is to set your budget and then 
>>> make a post whose subject starts with "WTB:.. " – all sorts of cool and 
>>> awesome bikes will emerge that fit your criteria! 
>>>
>>> - Max "it's a journey" in A2
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 8:14:36 AM UTC-5 mathiass...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Chuck,

 I've never owned a Rivendell, so I believe it's important I chime in... 
 because of this:

 >> I tried a Roadini (which I recently listed here and sold), but I 
 think it was too big for me.

 It probably wasn't too "big", it was probably too long in the top tube.

 In the current Riv idea space, the Albatross is the handlebar of 
 choice. The one Grant says he'll ride when he's old. I'd argue you can't 
 build a bike that accomodates swept back AND drop handlebars for the same 
 rider in the same size. The difference is  only a few cm, but they matter. 

 I tend to pick one bike every year and build it from the frame up, to 
 ride it and see how I like it, and what I can learn from it. And since I 
 always use a Brooks B17 and a Nitto Noodle, that provides a handy size 
 reference. The distance from the saddle tip to the handlebar cross tube is 
 always the same when I'm done fitting it.. and it matches the ancient rule 
 that if you put your elbow against the tip of the saddle, the finger tips 
 should just reach the handlebar. Stem lengths go from 70 to 100 mm, on 
 frames ranging from from a 52 cm Bruce Gordon BLT to a a 25 inch (63.5 cm) 
 Cannondale ST600 to and a few in between. Top tube length (effective) 
 ranges from 56 to 59 cm. 

 So figure out what YOUR saddle/bar distan

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Piaw Na]

ood.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my 
> road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch 
> below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs 
> discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does 
> not need discs at all (where I live/ride).  I'm so happy to have a rim 
> brake bike that fits 43mm tires.  The bars (Whiskey 12F) and 3mm bar tape 
> with gel pad under was perfect for my hands.  I like cush, and this set up 
> is really good (for me).  The mechanic dialled in the wrap and gel 
> placement with these hoods.  The 30F/32R gearing is perfect for the 
> steepest hills where this bike will be ridden.  I've went on long enough so 
> I'll stop there.  Word of the day - "smooth" :-)
>
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> [image: image1.jpeg]
>
> [image: image2.jpeg]
>
> [image: image3.jpeg]
>
> [image: image4.jpeg]
>
> [image: image5.jpeg]
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:39:44 PM UTC-5 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>
>> @Patrick - Leo is a bit more nimble and rigid to a comparably spec'd Sam. 
>> Sam seems a bit more flexy, especially with out of the seat climbing. Seems 
>> like the Sam is all over the place when it comes to steering--my Leo seems 
>> to track way better at low speeds. For context, I've had a million setups 
>> on my Sam during the last 14 years and it's currently running a flat bar, 
>> 2x8 setup, on 44mm RH tires. My Leo is running a drop bar, 3x8 setup, and 
>> 32mm Pasela TGs.38mm Shikoros arriving this Wednesday. Sam used to have 
>> the same parts currently on the Leo. I think the differences are very 
>> slightboth bikes are amazing.
>>
>> @Jay - Congrats on the purchase--you picked a winner. Like you, I also 
>> purchased a dark gold 57cm frame. I couldn't be happier. Leo is a champ.
>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 5:32:46 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Piaw: I'm curious, how light is your Roadini?
>>>
>>> More general question to the audience: How does the current Roadini 
>>> differ from the original Sam Hillborne? I owned one of the latter and it 
>>> would be interesting to use this Sam as a gauge for understanding the 
>>> Roadini.
>>>
>>> Aside: I'm thinking (just thinking; action may come but later) of 
>>> turning that Libertas into an on-and-offroad beater because I think it will 
>>> take a 38 mm tire. The original issue Sam was limited to IIRC 38 or 40 mm 
>>> tires so I hope that this might be a more nimble handling and lighter (and 
>>> beater-sh) Sam surrogate.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 8:44 PM Piaw Na  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I went with 11s and a single DT shifter (I'm running 1x11) and I treat 
>>>> my Roadini as a gravel bike. It's great. Usually I climb on the road so 
>>>> shifting is not a problem, and descending who cares what gears you're in. 
>>>> But on the few occasions I did a a dirt climb and I'd just shift into the 
>>>> lowest gear and stay there. My goal for the Roadini was to make it as 
>>>> light 
>>>> as possible (given the relatively heavy frame) while still able to do hard 
>>>> climbs. It hasn't disappointed.
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 2:06:45 PM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
>>>>> shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
>>>>> shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I 
>>>>> don't 
>>>>> even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group 
>>>>> I have on it.. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris 
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this 
>>>>>> sounds like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada 
>>>>>> that sells Riv (C&L Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks 
>>>>>> when 
>>>>>> I'll be visiting Montreal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking for this to be a pro

[RBW] Re: Brake cables and housing

[Piaw Na]

I've had brake cables and housing good for 15 years on my 3 Ti frames with 
a total of around 4 miles, rain or shine (you don't break bike frames 
if you don't ride). The brakes worked fine throughout the 15 years and I 
only swapped out for newer cables when I got my Roadini and noted how good 
the brakes felt despite the longer calipers. I attributed that to the fancy 
Shimano Optislick cable set I'd gotten on sale (https://amzn.to/3HHOdl4), 
but after the replacement realized it was just that 15 years is probably 
asking a bit much. But in any case it wasn't a safety issue!

On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 9:21:19 AM UTC-8 John Bokman wrote:

> Obviously there are infinite variables (weather, amount of miles ridden, 
> etc.), but the question is: 
> How often do you all change your cables and housing? 
>
> I ride daily, often in wet conditions. My braking is sufficient, but I'm 
> always wondering if it couldn't be a bit better with new cable and housing? 
> Of course that requires removing my years old, many layered shellac over 
> cloth tape
>
> Just curious.
>
> John
> Portland, OR
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis special disc edition

[Piaw Na]

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 1:14:10 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

George: I daresay Grant would balk at this conversion. And I can understand 
his allegiance to rim brakes; of all the kinds of brakes, as far as I can 
tell, rim brakes give the biggest return in effectiveness (strength, 
modulation, time between fettling) with the greatest simplicity and ease of 
setup. And I can understand someone choosing a hybrid front disc/rear rim 
brake system.


Grant's approval shouldn't matter. What I'm curious about is how the bike 
performs under hard braking. My understanding is that disc brakes demand 
much beefier dropouts and forks, and whether the disc brake won't cause 
problems with super skinny fork blades that Rivendell uses because the 
assumption is that you'll be using rim brakes. Any approval or "street 
creds" should always be secondary to safety concerns.

I use rim brakes because I never found disc brakes that didn't squeal like 
a stuck pig under hard braking conditions. Despite all my attempts I've 
only managed to wear out rims from braking in muddy conditions exactly 
once, and that was on a 1993 Bridgestone MB-3 that was treated like a 
submersible (the bike shop used that as an excuse not to warranty the BB 
after just 3 months of use) and ridden through knee deep rivers --- even 
then it took me a good 10 years to do so! Granted I live in California, but 
I also deliberately make it a point to ride my Roadini off road whenever I 
can in the winter season --- when it's cold and rainy the slowness of a 
gravel bike no longer bothers me. 

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Piaw Na]

I went with 11s and a single DT shifter (I'm running 1x11) and I treat my 
Roadini as a gravel bike. It's great. Usually I climb on the road so 
shifting is not a problem, and descending who cares what gears you're in. 
But on the few occasions I did a a dirt climb and I'd just shift into the 
lowest gear and stay there. My goal for the Roadini was to make it as light 
as possible (given the relatively heavy frame) while still able to do hard 
climbs. It hasn't disappointed.

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 2:06:45 PM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
> shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
> shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't 
> even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 
>
> I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I 
> have on it.. 
>
> Chris 
>
> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>
>> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
>> like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>>
>> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
>> sells Riv (C&L Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
>> be visiting Montreal.
>>
>> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
>> though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
>> those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
>> wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
>> winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake 
>> levers, and Tektro brakes.
>>
>> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, 
>> but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local 
>> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
>> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>>
>> Photos to come in February.  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: SPD pedal recomendation

[Piaw Na]

If you're not going to do serious single track I highly recommend the 
PD-ES600. https://blog.piaw.net/2022/10/review-shimano-pd-es600.html

My friends were really skeptical that it would make any difference compared 
to the venerable and well respected (deservedly so) M520s, but the wings 
and wider platform definitely make these pedals feel much better connected 
than the M520s, and are the first pedals I've tried that I consider a 
significant improvement over the M520s. My biggest issue with them is that 
you have to mount them with an allen wrench instead of having wrench flats. 
Beware though, they're singled sided (which is what makes the connection 
feel so nice --- the design wouldn't have worked with a double-sided pedal, 
I don't think)! But for paved riding they're really awesome.

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 1:13:12 PM UTC-8 Bernard Duhon wrote:

> I am in the hunt for a set of dual sided SPD pedals. 
> I'm going flat on my touring bike but there is too much total overlap on 
> one of my bikes to do anything but a clip .
> I have been riding the old  Onza elastomer SPD's. 
>  
> any suggestions? 
>  
> Benard
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Advantages of triple drivetrains (VO post)

[Piaw Na]

A 24/34 is the same as a 36/51 in gear inches. So there's no advantage to a 
triple if you're looking for a low gear.

I moved to a 1x for all my bikes because it turned out that dropped shifts 
into the granny were causing me to stand up on many climbs when I should 
have shifted. Since there's no front shifting involved on a 1x I ended up 
faster up all the hills because I was more willing to shift. It's not 
marketing. It's human factors.

On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 3:13:54 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:

> Steven, thanks for the point about how useful triples are for riding with 
> big loads, whether for touring, day tripping, shopping, whatever. I 
> frequently haul loads up hills on my already-heavy Rivs, so a wide gear 
> range with 24-34-44  or a 26-36-46 triple and a 34- or 36-tooth large rear 
> sprocket works great for me. I'm a tinkerer but I don't mess with my front 
> ders. They're set it and forget it. I also love the way shiny triple cranks 
> look. I've never felt compelled to try a 1x from a functional or aesthetic 
> standpoint. 
>
> I agree with Johnny that much newfangled bike stuff and trends are driven 
> by product differentiation and marketing. Sometimes what was once virtue 
> becomes vice, sometimes what is old becomes new again. 
>
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 4:14:25 PM UTC-5 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
>> One point that I think is being missed, is for loaded touring bikes 
>> triples make more sense. Though I am not camping I still am carrying around 
>> 40 lbs on a 32 lb bike, low gears are especially useful on long and/or 
>> steep hills. When home in central  New Hampshire many of my favorite roads 
>> are diificult if not impossible for me to ride without a 15-18” gear.
>>
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 8:43 PM Chris Halasz  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm planning on going from 3x to 1x on my all-around Tosco'd LHT. Maybe 
>>> even do that today, and replace the big ring with the Rivendell chainring 
>>> guard. 
>>>
>>> I haven't used the 48 in a long, long time. As for the 26 inner: there 
>>> was a t-shirt from the 80s from a bike shop in Ketchum that read, "if you 
>>> ain't hikin', you ain't mountain bikin'". If it gets that low, I appreciate 
>>> the change in blood circulation by just walking those few minutes. 
>>>
>>> - Chris
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 12:30:47 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak, 
>>> Woodstown NJ wrote:
>>>
 Bill L stated:   " If it were me, I'd experiment with a 42-tooth big 
 ring before going to a triple"

 Question to Bill:   Will a 42T large ring result in the FD hitting the 
 chain stay in the inner ring of a triple (say 24T or 26T) ???

 PS  I agree with your comment on the 46-11 being a very high gear.

 John Hawrylak
 Woodstown NJ

 On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 3:21:33 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Ben
>
> You run a 46/30 with an 11-34 11sp cassette.  If it were me, I'd 
> experiment with a 42-tooth big ring before going to a triple.  46x11 is 
> pretty darn high for a commuter/city bike.  Anything higher than a 4:1 in 
> my book is for the sole purpose of pedaling at >>40mph.  That is a real 
> use-case in hilly areas, but not for me, and especially not for a 
> commuter/city bike.  That's just a suggestion.  The jump from 42 to 30 is 
> much less dramatic.  
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 11:25:39 AM UTC-8 bunny...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I've been kind of triple-curious again. I live in a hilly part of 
>> L.A. My commuter/city bike has an 11-34 11s with a 46/30 front. I've 
>> been 
>> finding the 46 to 30 jump to feel pretty large. It feels much more 
>> dramatic 
>> than 50-34. For instance, if I switch big to small in the from, I'll 
>> sift 
>> down at least 3 cogs on the back to totally avoid spinning out 
>> immediately. 
>> I sometimes find myself mildly cross chaining in either direction to 
>> find 
>> the right gear.
>>
>> So I've been thinking of either going 1x, or 3x. My other bike is 1x, 
>> and it's a carbon all-road/gravel thing. I like the setup for rougher 
>> terrain. Also, I just don't like the idea of having duplicate bikes. I 
>> also 
>> romanticize the bike I had about 20 years go, which had an 11-27 9 speed 
>> with 24/36/46. At the time, it felt luxurious, natural, and easy. But I 
>> didn't know then what I know now, and many times when I've set up a 
>> modern 
>> bike like this one from my past, I get quickly disillusioned and undo 
>> that 
>> change.
>>
>> I kinda feel like the headline should be "triples: still fun and 
>> useful for hands on bike nerds who like to tinker."
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 10:44:06 AM UTC-8 
>> captaincon...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I dissent.  Front derailers are

[RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Piaw Na]

It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends already 
claim is flexy and comfy when they ride it (and which flexes like crazy 
when I attach a trailer to it). It's overbuilt for me @ 145 pounds. If I 
was 160 pounds I wouldn't consider it over built, and if I was 200 pounds I 
still wouldn't expect to break it. My big complaint is that I don't 
consider 75mm BB drop to be sufficient for 30mm tires on the road. I want 
80mm or 85mm drop for a bike built for modern style giant tires where you 
wouldn't expect to ride anything smaller than 700x30.

On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> I guess that's my concern is I'm not looking for a gravel bike.. I'm 
> looking for a zippy (fast-ish) road bike that will take larger tires.. 
> Also,  one of my main concerns is the bike will be overbuilt, meaning the 
> tubes will be heavy enough that it won't flex enough to be comfy.. 
>
> Thoughts? 
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:15:25 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have about 1300 miles on my Roadini: 
>> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html. 
>> With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's not 
>> built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 pounds with pedals, 
>> bottle cage and pump but no toolkit or water bottle. I could have probably 
>> shaved another pound off with Jon Neugent's 1430g wheels. Having said that, 
>> it doesn't beat my custom Ti touring bike built based on the 1993 
>> Bridgestone RB-1 geometry on climbs up hills or stability on descents (the 
>> higher BB on the Roadini is to blame). What I do find is that with 38mm 
>> tires it is an excellent gravel bike and I have no issues taking it down 
>> single track  trails that others would consider MTB trails. The Tektro 559s 
>> outperform any disc brakes I've ever found and never make noise (unlike any 
>> disc brakes I've ever ridden).
>>
>> I did buy another 50cm Roadini to build up for my son when he's tall 
>> enough to ride it (which won't take a year), so that tells you that I think 
>> it's the best general purpose bike in the Rivendell stable. The bike is so 
>> versatile I wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere except a dedicated 
>> downhill MTB park.
>> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Howdy all,
>>>
>>> So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be 
>>> some bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I 
>>> got from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a 
>>> Ram for a short time. 
>>>
>>> So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when riding? 
>>> I'm sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some bikes can 
>>> weigh a bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, but I 
>>> like a bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping around at 
>>> my, fast for me, 18-19 mph.. 
>>>
>>> I would be looking to build up with drop bars BTW with a modern-ish 
>>> group.. 
>>>
>>> Finally, anyone have a 50cm frameset (or complete maybe) they are 
>>> looking to move? 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris is Sonoma County, CA :) 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Piaw Na]

I have about 1300 miles on my 
Roadini: https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html. 
With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's not 
built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 pounds with pedals, 
bottle cage and pump but no toolkit or water bottle. I could have probably 
shaved another pound off with Jon Neugent's 1430g wheels. Having said that, 
it doesn't beat my custom Ti touring bike built based on the 1993 
Bridgestone RB-1 geometry on climbs up hills or stability on descents (the 
higher BB on the Roadini is to blame). What I do find is that with 38mm 
tires it is an excellent gravel bike and I have no issues taking it down 
single track  trails that others would consider MTB trails. The Tektro 559s 
outperform any disc brakes I've ever found and never make noise (unlike any 
disc brakes I've ever ridden).

I did buy another 50cm Roadini to build up for my son when he's tall enough 
to ride it (which won't take a year), so that tells you that I think it's 
the best general purpose bike in the Rivendell stable. The bike is so 
versatile I wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere except a dedicated 
downhill MTB park.
On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> Howdy all,
>
> So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be 
> some bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I 
> got from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a 
> Ram for a short time. 
>
> So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when riding? 
> I'm sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some bikes can 
> weigh a bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, but I 
> like a bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping around at 
> my, fast for me, 18-19 mph.. 
>
> I would be looking to build up with drop bars BTW with a modern-ish 
> group.. 
>
> Finally, anyone have a 50cm frameset (or complete maybe) they are looking 
> to move? 
>
> Thanks,
> Chris is Sonoma County, CA :) 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Will Cliffhangers leave me hanging?

[Piaw Na]

Those Nanos are the most frustrating tires I've ever had to change out. It 
took me 2 days to get them off my son's Salsa Journeyman. Granted, those 
rims are the awful tubeless ready rims which contribute to the problem. I 
even had to rest my thumbs in between wheels!

I've had Marathons come on the bike and bent aluminum tire levers getting 
them off to fix them. Never again! My philosophy now is that I'd rather get 
flats more often and have them be easy to fix in the field than to have 
unflattable tires that also are unfixable in the field when they do flat.

On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 5:28:46 PM UTC-8 John Rinker wrote:

> I haven't had any problems mounting tires, but I've got a pair of WTB 
> Nanos that are clinging for dear life. They won't even let me push their 
> bead from the rim. They truly love the Cliffhangers.
>
> Cheers, John
>
> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 5:03:37 PM UTC-8 ber...@bernardduhon.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Those tubless ready rims can be a pain. 
>>
>> When I am going on a multi day ride I bring this tire jack. 
>>
>> It only fits in large saddle bags but is worth the space.
>>
>> Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack With Handle (Black) - Dan's Comp (danscomp.com) 
>> 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Second place is the picture attached . I don’t know where I bought it but 
>> It has to be used with care as It will bend out of shape so you have to 
>> back it up with your hand . 
>>
>>  
>>
>> Third place 
>>
>> Amazon.com : Crankbrothers Dunarri Speedier Lever , Black : Cycling Tire 
>> Repair Kits : Sports & Outdoors 
>> 
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  *On 
>> Behalf Of *John Bokman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 28, 2023 4:32 PM
>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: Will Cliffhangers leave me hanging?
>>
>>  
>>
>> I have found the Marathon Supremes (700x35 and 700x38) to be great for 
>> urban riding/touring purposes. But, they are now sadly discontinued. The 
>> "replacement" is the Marathon "efficiency" which I can't quite get my head 
>> around...Another tire that I now enjoy for such purposes is the Panaracer 
>> Pasella Protite. Less expensive, great rolling, maybe not quite as 
>> flat-resistant, but so far so good (fingers crossed). I had used the 
>> original Pasellas, but found them to be flat-prone. The new ones seem to 
>> roll as well, but be much more flat-prone. Of course, I'm not riding on 
>> shoulders of highways where lots of tire and shrapnel conspire to deflate 
>> tires.
>>
>>  
>>
>> https://www.schwalbetires.com/Marathon-Efficiency-11654366
>>
>>
>> https://www.panaracerusa.com/products/pasela-protite-folding-urban-commuter-tire
>>
>>  
>>
>> FWIW, have haven't had trouble mounting Schwalbes (Marathon Green Guard, 
>> Marathon Supreme, Marathon Mondial) on Velocity Dyads nor Quill. They were 
>> a bit tougher to mount on Sun Rims (CR 18, I believe?). I think the key is 
>> to get the tire beads well into the center of the wheel well before 
>> proceeding with mounting.
>>
>>  
>>
>> John, Portland OR
>>
>> On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 1:54:52 PM UTC-8 maxcr wrote:
>>
>> Marathon Supremes have been quite supple and easy to mount for me
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 28, 2023, at 3:24 PM, Ed Carolipio  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I've had similar problems with the Cliffhangers and other tubeless 
>> compatible rims. Two things I did to make life easier: (1) ensure the tire 
>> bead is in the center channel, as Josiah pointed out; and (2) use a thin 
>> plastic tubeless rim tape (Stan's, Velocity, Muc-Off) even when running 
>> tubes and limit it at one layer. Never use the cloth rim tape (like Velox) 
>> and avoid the rubber rim strips (like Ritchey).
>>
>>  
>>
>> You didn't mention if you had a wire bead or folding bead tires. Wire 
>> beads are hit-and-miss with different rims. I've found I have a lot less 
>> trouble with folding bead tires.
>>
>>  
>>
>> You also didn't mention which Marathons you're running. IMO the base 
>> Marathons are the ones folks abhor. I opt for the highest option Marathons, 
>> which used to be the Marathon Supremes but currently I think are Almotions, 
>> and always in a folding bead. It's a much more supple and lighter tire with 
>> similar flat performance and durability. I haven't had direct experince 
>> with the Mondials but people speak highly of those when 

[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."

[Piaw Na]

I've been riding SPDs since the mid 1990s when they finally became 
affordable. On my tandem/triplet we had one crash caused my the too long 
for my kid toe strap getting caught in the timing ring. After that I got 
SPD click'r pedals for my kids and they've been riding clipless SPDs since. 
(The hard part was getting SPD shoes small enough for them --- I ended up 
buying the first few pairs used from other cycling families) 

I went to flat pedals for about a year on the MTB --- this was a period 
when I had to get off my bike every so often, run down to the kids and push 
them up the mountain. After a while they got strong enough that a tow rope 
hitched to my bike could drag them up the mountains, so I switched back to 
SPDs and it felt so good.

One thing about SPD is that I never got technically good enough at bunny 
hopping that I could do it without SPDs, but with SPDs I can do it all day 
any time, which is probably a silly reason to like SPDs. And no, my kids 
and I aren't good enough to bunny hop the tandem.

On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 6:06:06 AM UTC-8 ascpgh wrote:

> My modern cycling (80s onward) has been all with clips and straps then 
> clipless (SPD). 
>
> Weeks after buying my first MTB I coincidentally trashed my right knee 
> (not bike related injury) and it sat unused for almost nine months. When I 
> began riding again it was on a Minoura track stand and required clips and 
> straps to keep my errant right foot on the pedal since it tended to float 
> off the pedal.  In an ill-advised move, I chose to get off the stand and go 
> outside. First on my parent's half mile dead end road, then farther. My 
> right foot continued to require clips and straps as I regained both leg 
> strength and proprioception. I had to become a left foot stop/prop rider 
> after years of doing that with my right foot. As my strength recovered, I 
>  even used Keirin double strap clips before venturing into clipless.  
>
> I got my cycling mojo back and then some. I rode off road  strapped in 
> tightly and had a cat like left hand swat to loosen the buckle of my on/off 
> foot strap. I became discriminating about shoes as the tightened buckles 
> would wear into the uppers quickly. When adopting SPDs I learned how 
> important the show pedal interface was and how critical fit was.
>
> I've been SPD since their distribution began, best for me with Sidi 
> Dominators. My love of fine clip and strap pedals waned despite my history 
> and return to cycling because of them. My last pair were an XC Comp-bodied, 
> Superbe Pro track-caged set that came on my MB-0, traded to (and perhaps 
> the ones mentioned by) Patrick. 
>
> The shoes matter much, they dictate the alignment to the pedals when 
> clipped in so if your foot isn't in them well, the pedals won't . I 
> strongly agree with the BQ "Icons" selection of the Sidi Dominators. They 
> fit me, my foot is in the right place on my SPDs with the right amount of 
> movement for all of my riding. It's just how I roll. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
>
> On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's 
>> out-of-context judgment.
>>
>> But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how 
>> many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use 
>> clipless systems -- and what kind.
>>
>> I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with 
>> thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on 
>> un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about 
>> 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C 
>> with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd 
>> better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips 
>> and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty 
>> quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson 
>> Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and 
>> Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I 
>> mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb 
>> mechanism). 
>>
>> A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention 
>> shoes but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find 
>> the right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my 
>> bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + 
>> almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found 
>> slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than 
>> Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect.
>>
>> So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard 
>> to give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of 
>> my riding is on fixed drivetrains, bu

Re: [RBW] Re: 90s Road Double paired with 11-36 9 speed rear cassette

[Piaw Na]

11t sprockets are not useless when you have a 1x drivetrain. I use my 11t 
on the tandem (38t chainring) and on my single (40t chainring). They don't 
get used frequently (which is good, since they'd wear out quickly 
otherwise), but once in a while they get used, which wasn't the case back 
when I had a triple with 24/39/50 up front.

On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 11:39:23 AM UTC-8 Garth wrote:

> There's nothing wrong with simply not using the 11t cog you know :) 
> Conversely, , I think 11t cogs are worthless myself. I'd rather ride a 
> larger ring and a larger 12t or 13t cog. Anyone that rides big rings and 
> big cogs knows how sweet that feels. It doesn't have to be a 53t, a 46t-52t 
> is fine.  Or get yourself some 7sp FW hubs and ride a 13-32, 14-34 or 13-28 
> FW. I find it funny that only FW's offer usable and rideable gears these 
> days. The Sunrace 14-34 has a nice 14/16/18/21/24/28/34 progression. A 
> 53/14 is still a big gear for most people in most conditions. That's just 
> me though, as I never got the memo about more than 7 cogs being a good 
> idea. 
> On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 1:56:46 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> A 53 *can* be perfectly useful if you use something like a 15-25 or 26 9 
>> speed as I once did, tho' in my case I used a "compact" double, 52 X 38. 
>> That gave me a closely spaced range from 94 down to about 40" with cruising 
>> gears in the middle: 78/74/70 --- well, the cruising gears were really the 
>> 74" and the 70', but close enough.
>>
>> The 52/38 X 15-25 replaced an also-very-nice TA 42/28 or so X 12-23 or 
>> somesuch, replaced because I thought that the DA 7410 cranks is one of the 
>> prettiest ever made.
>>
>> I got the cogs for this custom cassette from Miche. I think I've read 
>> that "junior" racing cassettes start with the 15t.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 11:45 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> I think the reason folks are "giving away" their 53/39 cranksets is that 
>>> the 53 is useless.  A 53x11 is good for one thing: pedaling at >>45MPH.  
>>> For those of us who only reach 45MPH on steep descents, that's a useless 
>>> gear.  I'd just unbolt the 53, lose the front der, and run the bike as a 
>>> 1x9 with a 39 tooth ring and 11-36 in back.  That would do everything I 
>>> would need to do on a light road bike.  My absolute max I ever go to on my 
>>> builds is a 4:1 top gear.  That used to be a 52x13, then it was a 48x12, 
>>> and now it's a 44x11.  44/28 with an 11-36 would be sensational.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 10:11:45 AM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 I am thinking about going NOS or near-new-vintage crankset for a build. 
 Nothing against modern stuff, but eBay seems to have a plethora of nice 
 shimano 105/600 cranksets in great shape for under $100.

 I know 90s road bike gearing was more focused on racing with small 
 cassettes in the rear. But has anyone had success or suggestions 
 for/against getting an older shimano square taper road double with 53/39 
 or 
 52/42ish and paired with an 11-36 9spd cassette? Seems like Riv doesn't 
 offer any doubles with outer ring bigger than 46 and the smaller rings are 
 in the 20s. 

 I have a triple on my Sam and spend 90% of my time in the middle ring, 
 even on tough climbs, and I've had several doubles on vintage road 
 bikes/CX 
 bikes in the past.

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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: SF RB-1 looking very nice

[Piaw Na]

I owned a Red '93 RB-1 and it died in a car crash that put me in the 
hospital for days and in rehab for months. I loved that bike and should 
have been more aggressive about using it so that when it died it wouldn't 
have hurt so much.

Having said that, it's nowhere as versatile a bike as my current Roadini. 
The default gearing on the RB-1 was way too high for most cyclists, and 
there's some toe clip overlap while the Roadini has none.  The Roadini 
would probably have withstood Richard Mlyrnarik's pedaling for longer than 
a season (he cracked his RB-1 in a year of riding) The longer chainstays of 
the Roadini means it descends better, and the Roadini won't climb any 
worse. The yellow RB-1 came with STIs and I've killed the 8-speed STIs once 
and won't ride them again (indexing doesn't agree with me). Despite the 
Craiglist declaration, I believe the yellow RB-1 came with Suntour Superbe 
Pro brakes rather than Shimano 600 ones. But the Shimano 600 dual pivots 
are better, so that's not an issue.

All in all, if I had the opportunity to exchange my Roadini for a '93 RB-1, 
I wouldn't. The RB-1 was a nice bike, but not as nice as what I've built up 
my Roadini to be.

On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 11:48:22 AM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
wrote:

>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bik/d/san-francisco-57cm-time-capsule-1993/7688650100.html
>
> The seller said he’d go as low as $1600. There’s gotta be some opinions 
> here. I have debated 90s road bike vs Roadini in previous threads and I’m 
> still considering both. Building a Roadini would cost me $2000-$2200. The 
> yellow 93 RB1 is my favorite, aesthetically speaking, but I’ve never ridden 
> one. 
>
> I’ve had a 92 Fuji Team with similar geo and loved it, but sold it. It was 
> a 56 and a hair too small. 
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB new Rivendell saddle or other saddle with proper bag loops

[Piaw Na]

The Ritchey Vector Wing saddles have stealth saddlebag loops (because the 
wing doubles as a loop). They're not quite "proper" bag loops, but they 
work just as well. Much lighter than a Brooks, and the white version is 
currently $24, which is MUCH cheaper than a Brooks or 
Rivendell: https://ritcheylogic.com/bike/saddles/rl1-streem-saddle-40020008001

On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 3:53:33 AM UTC-8 modemm...@gmail.com wrote:

> Looking for a cheap saddle with proper bag loops - the new Rivendell one 
> or perhaps one of the V-O ones that have loops.  Hopefully someone's got a 
> saddle they don't use or didn't work for their body that they'll let go 
> cheapish!

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Re: [RBW] A Homer Hill build....

[Piaw Na]

I'll chime in. I'm here in the Bay Area (I noticed Sarah mentioned Mt 
Diablo), and I've found that Bay Area hills are not kind to triples. I 
switched to a 1x and am much 
happier: https://blog.piaw.net/2022/06/a-transition-to-1x-drivetrains.html

I'm sure this is a contrarian view, but my take is that the drop into a 24 
is challenging enough that you will drop chains every so often and learn 
not to use it. My knees are much happier with 1x than with 3x. And I'm 
happy to give up the top end and restrict myself to spinning out at 30mph.

On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 8:39:10 PM UTC-8 Bikie#4646 wrote:

> Sarah, I would like to ditto the other recommendations for triple 
> chainrings and a smaller cogset. I use a 9-speed 12/27 paired to 46/36/24 
> crankset. Also, the Albastache / Mustache handlebars, paired to an 80mm 
> Nitto Dirt Drop stem. My Mustache bars with a slight tilt downward offers 
> the best of both worlds for me. It fits between my drop bar bike and the 
> more upright Albatross bar on my single speed daily ride.
> I'm at a point in life where I have no riding partners who don't think the 
> way I do about group riding. (Which might be a new goal for you, too?) I 
> would call it "spirited" but not competitive. We all have different pain 
> thresholds and capabilities but everyone would think it improper to leave 
> the others in the dust. Often the ride includes a bagged lunch midway. 
> Even my rides which are not in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains 
> are rarely over 40 miles, but a good workout nonetheless.
> I find my Homer Hilsen is the perfect bike for this. With a near-minimum 
> of bag capacity, I can carry a sandwich and even a lightweight jacket or 
> vest, etc. Most every need for a day ride, which would include tools of 
> course. Much of what I do on the Hilsen is unpaved and hilly. The 38mm tire 
> capacity (with fenders) of my 2013 (?) frame handles dirt roads well, even 
> on slippery downhills. The new Hilsens with longer chain stays may take 
> wider tires yet, but I suspect there is a tipping point to tire width. If 
> your group rides are entirely on pavement, 35-38mm tires should be the 
> sweet spot for you and you won't need the excess rolling weight of wider.
> I use a Sam Hillborne for touring and the Hilsen is noticeably livelier, 
> especially without the touring racks. Since I am not spending all day on 
> the bike, I can get away with a lighter, more narrow saddle. (But we all 
> know that is a very personal preference.)  My Hilsen set up this way for me 
> is a confidence-builder and my favorite bike for adventure rides with 
> others.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/52784257986/in/album-72177720307152181/
> Paul Germain
> Midlothian, Va.
> [image: IMG_7763.jpeg]
>
> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 9:28:46 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Did someone say PIE??! 🥧
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 6:11:51 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, going down hills in the 42 I am still spinning but then someone 
>>> told me that is normal... I guess I am learning new things about riding 
>>> since I've been out with a group. I'm going to do a triple on this one and 
>>> see how it goes! I do like the sound of your set up with the 24-35-43 with 
>>> 12 x 36. Gravity is inconvenient for me a lot these days because I like to 
>>> fuel my engine with pie so I am looking forward to the 24! 
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 27, 2023 at 6:38:19 PM UTC-8 Drew Saunders wrote:
>>>
 If you say you live in your 34, but sometimes spin out, while wanting a 
 lower gear as well, then a triple is a good choice.

 You can set up the common 74/110 triple, like the Silver, Soma Clipper, 
 etc. as a 24-34-44, and pair that with a 12-36 in the rear and have your 
 “3 
 cassettes on one bike” gearing. I use a 24-35-43 with a 12-36 on my 1998 
 Ibis Mojo “Mountain Bike that has become a Gravel Bike.” I use the 43 on 
 pavement, the 35 on almost all my off road riding, and the 24 when gravity 
 becomes inconvenient. Based on my riding, a 2x10 or 11 makes more sense, 
 but I’m cheap and lazy, so I’ll stick with the triple for some time.

 On Monday, November 27, 2023 at 7:24:42 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> This is gearing math I can understand... there is a Papa bear, and 
> Mama bear, and a Baby bear... and something that will be just right for 
> everyone!
>
> On Monday, November 27, 2023 at 6:55:19 AM UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> IMO redundant gears are more of a conceptual or theoretical concern 
>> than a real issue. If you’re setting up a triple, you really end up with:
>>
>> - a middle ring for the majority of your riding 
>> - a small ring for big hills, use it with the biggest cogs in back
>> - a big ring for downhills or otherwise going fast. Use it with your 
>> medium and small cogs and back. 
>>
>>>

[RBW] Re: Kid's First Pedal Bike (Riv parent edition)

[Piaw Na]

I will second the Woom series of bikes for kids. The owner has been been 
very responsive over the years to my complaints about the early wooms and 
now there's very little to fault about them. The joy a kid has on a nice 
bike coming down an MTB trail cannot be 
beat: https://photos.app.goo.gl/wfaaXekGtGojqDoe8, 
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KzNpJ69adZiCrgxDA

We bought Woom 2, 3, and then when the off versions came out the off 
versions of the 4 and 5. Rather than get a 6, I found a used Salsa 
Journeyman 50cm which worked out well for less money than a new Woom 6.


On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 1:39:32 PM UTC-8 Michael Ullmer wrote:

> Hi Nick,
>
> We've been using both the Woom 2 and Woom 3 as first pedal bikes for our 
> two kids (now 3.5 and 6.5). My kids are pretty rough on the bikes and I've 
> never had any mechanical issues with them aside from adjusting the brakes 
> every now and then. We do always keep them in the garage when not in use. 
>
> My younger just moved from a Woom 2 to a Woom 3 and it seems to fit her 
> just fine. She probably could have used the Woom 2 for a few more months, 
> but with the slightly lower gearing, she was spinning out on it quite a bit 
> and we had the seat almost all the way up. I think you're right that if you 
> went with the 14" Woom 2 that your kid would outgrow it pretty quickly. 
>
> On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 2:55:09 PM UTC-6 fiddl...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Since RBW regrettably doesn't make kids hillibikes, I'm going to have to 
>> go a bit outside of my comfort zone to pick out a first pedal bike for my 
>> son. He's ~3.5yo, and more than ready to move up from his 12" balance bike.
>>
>> Any tips from other parents who have recently gone through the switch 
>> from balance to pedals? I'm leaning toward something like a Woom 3 (16"), 
>> since they seem to be very well regarded, and I'm afraid he would outgrow a 
>> 14" bike too soon at this point to justify the expense. (am I wrong?) 
>> Probably also worth noting that a lot of his riding is currently on trails, 
>> so I'm definitely looking for something that will work well off-pavement, 
>> too. Anyhow, I'll take any advice the group is willing to throw at me - 
>> thanks in advance for your help!
>>
>> Nick
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: few items - Choco bar ,700x40 tires, crankset, long reach brakes

[Piaw Na]

Bike closet has continental 700x40 Terraspeed tires for $32. At that price 
I don't care how quickly they wear out

On Sunday, November 12, 2023 at 5:33:35 AM UTC-8 J Schwartz wrote:

> Building a Roadini and looking for a few used items in good shape:
>
>
>1. Choco bar (norm variety)
>2. 170mm-ish crankset - clipper, sugino or silver either a triple 
>or 42/28-ish 
>3. 700x40 tires ...could go down to 38's ...40's better 
>4. Something like good condition 559's.  Probably better to just buy 
>new...but what's out there?
>
> Thanks
> JS
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Northern Hemisphere Fall / Autumn Riding Photos 2023

[Piaw Na]

Here are my photos from today:

https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/5JhQJDI6QnSac37pg2Rmuw.eSgl5m9IE5qYBBDSqnR2gX

Strava link: https://www.strava.com/activities/10121416336

Ran into an A Homer Hilsen rider (one of the tall ones, because his Homer 
had a double top tube) while descending to Stevens Canyon Road on the 
trail. Didn't get a picture, but nice to see other Rivendells out there!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Expert level bike commuting strategies?

[Piaw Na]

I've been bike commuting since my roommate crashed my car in 1990.

   - Try not to carry stuff - I've gotten to the point where I have 2 
   computers for work, one at home and one in the office so I don't have to 
   carry it between home and work. (In the old days it was easy to convince my 
   employer to do this because hard drives can't take the hammering in a 
   saddlebag and would die every few months)
   - Rather than bullet proof my bike (I'm the kind of person who can get 
   flat tires no matter how bullet proof the tire is), I go for maximum 
   repairability. That means quick release wheels, rims and tires that are 
   compatible so removing an inner tube and patching a flat is easy, and I've 
   unfortunately gotten good at repairing flats. That doesn't mean that fixing 
   a flat by the side of the road with cold fingers while cars are splashing 
   dirty water on you is fun, but cursing at a tire that won't come off no 
   matter what is even more frustrating. (It also means no generator lights to 
   make flat tire fixing easy)
   - Rain gear and fenders. Living in California I can get away with clip 
   ons rather than full fenders, and good rain jacket and rain pants covers 
   the rest. Needless to say, Kool-stop Salmon brake pads are a necessity.
   - Preventive maintenance and simplicity. That for me means I inspect the 
   bike and replace chains and other consumables like brake pads on a regular 
   basis.
   - Garmin radar. This is great for peace of mind as well as those ugly 
   left turns.
   - Complain to the traffic engineering department in your city. I've had 
   good luck writing city traffic engineering departments complaining about 
   lights that don't respond to bicycles or even debris in the bike lane. One 
   trick is to CC the local bike advocacy organization. When the city 
   departments see that someone's been CC'd, they assume you're preparing for 
   a lawsuit in the future and they will actually fix things. Recently they 
   even swept the streets after I complained!

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Re: [RBW] Roadini or Homer

[Piaw Na]

On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 8:52:13 AM UTC-7 shu...@gmail.com wrote:


Anyway, I could carry on and on, but I just wish to say that I find the two 
*quite* different.  The bike also feels noticeably bigger (the frame is a 
58) which may also contribute.  To shorten what could be a long story, I 
came home, walked in the house, and ordered a Homer, which is set to arrive 
today.  Once I build it up, I intend to sell the Roadini.  After about 
thirty years of 3000mi annually, the Homer was instantly the bike that I'd 
dreamt of for a long time.  You can't really go wrong with either.  To me 
the question would come down to this: do you want to maximize the feeling 
of quickness or gliding comfort?  For me, there was no comparison.  With 
the Tektro side pulls and all of the same parts, I cannot tell a weight 
difference between the two; perhaps the Paul brakes and extra bits nullify 
the frame savings.  Anyway, I was in a similar decision dilemma as you a 
few years back and went with the Roadini, and while it all worked out in 
the end, the Homer was the right choice for me.  



I was going to say --- I wonder how you'll feel when you have to pack this 
bike for a tour. What got me to not buy a Homer (other than the axle 
spacing) was that one of my critical use cases is being able to put the 
bike in a box, fly to a destination, and do a 3 week tour and bring it 
back. When I mentioned that to  Grant he admitted that it would take a much 
bigger box than I was willing to put up with to do that.

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[RBW] Re: is it blasphemous to ask how you think a Roadini would compare to a Crust Malocchio?

[Piaw Na]

Tire size should be the determining factor. If you don't need anything more 
than 35mm on the rear the lighter bike is better. I'm a big fan of low BBs, 
and the 700c version of the Malocchio fits the bill, but I think I'd be 
unhappy about not being able to run 700x40mm Terra Speeds, so overall I'm 
happy I went with the Roadini.

I'm also bothered by the non-matching front and rear brakes --- it's clear 
that they screwed up on the manufacturing on the Malocchio, which also 
means that I'm not so sure I'd trust them on the rest of the bike being to 
spec. Then again, the slipping seatpost on the Roadini bothers me too --- 
nobody's perfect.

On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 12:27:08 PM UTC-7 eddietheflay wrote:

> Seems the Crust would be more road racy and the Riv more long, relaxed and 
> multi purpose. I know we're not supposed to talk about weight but I can't 
> help wondering if there's much difference one vs the other. Just wondering.

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[RBW] Re: FS: Ricoh GRII - sort of riv adjacent?

[Piaw Na]

I have the GR3. The big advantage of the 3 over the 2 is built in image 
stabilization along with a higher resolution sensor. That makes a huge 
difference if you're going to shoot from the bike (which I do a lot). The 
flash would have been nice, but to be honest I haven't found it to be 
necessary for cycling use. The higher resolution is useful so I can crop 
significantly and not lose image quality.  I shot the majority of the 
photos during the bike tour last year with the GR3 
(https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/3tH_MiqmTIqevsnrC665ag.a-MTetXid6z6exmBW0GDou).
 
It's a good camera. The GR3 can be gotten new with warranty for around $970 
(https://amzn.to/45unK4g), but it might be hard to find now because it 
became some sort of tik-tok meme.
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 9:02:21 AM UTC-7 dylantho...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> As I'm sure you've read in newsletters from the past, Rivendell is a big 
> fan of Ricoh cameras, even or maybe especially their digital GR which is 
> why I'm listing this here. 
> Between build quality and built-in flash, the GRII is considered superior 
> and more desirable to the new GRIII and GRIIIX. 
>
> Mine could pass for new, and has hardly been used at all. Not a single 
> mark from use. Included is the usb charger, factory strap, manuals and the 
> box (of course the battery too). 
>
> $950 net to me
>

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[RBW] Re: Bike Shop Misadventures

[Piaw Na]

Back when Pardo and I were at the University of Washington as grad students 
there was a campus bike shop fully equipped with tools and good workstands. 
The student body had paid for the shop, but there were also full time bike 
repair folks at the shop for people who didn't want to do their own work. 
Pardo and I would show up with our bikes and start wrenching on our own 
bikes. The full time bike repair folks would look at our bikes and say: 
"Darn it. Why is it that the people who bring in nice bikes never let us 
work on it." 

I learned to work on my own bikes simply because I got too tired of arguing 
with bike shop mechanics who would refuse to do what was correct because 
their bike lore had to be unquestioned. Once in a while I find a good 
mechanic and I'll let them do work I don't like doing. But over time I've 
also replaced the parts on my bike that require the kind of service I don't 
like doing and what's left is simple and easy to work on. That's how I 
ended up with friction shifting on all my bikes except the one bike that's 
supposed to be thrown off a mountain with me on it. :-)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Style on the bike

[Piaw Na]

I like capris for winter riding in the Bay Area (too hot for the other 3 
seasons). I too, first found them in Europe, but earlier this year I 
discovered that the Germans call them 3/4 
pants: https://blog.piaw.net/2023/01/mens-carpis.html


On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 1:43:10 PM UTC-7 bunny...@gmail.com wrote:

> I was in Portugal in May and got a pair of these capri-length 
> shorts/knickers at Decathlon.
> https://www.decathlon.fr/p/bermuda-de-randonnee-nh500-homme/_/R-p-332747
>
> Now, I've always loved the "longer than shorts, shorter than pants" 
> clothing. But sometimes people are less friendly to dudes who wear capris. 
> Luckily, when I tried them on my wife thought that I looked super cute. So 
> those short pants became the hit of the summer. They are by far my best 
> short/pants for casual bike riding. They are my best non-lycra pant. I 
> should have bought 4 of 'em. Next time I'm gonna stock up.
>
> Ben
>
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 2:14:23 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Awesome. Perfect fall outfit, and very reminiscent of our 90s days (like 
>> a polished grunge?) - bring it back! Also love the pants, a little bit of 
>> stretch is so great for riding. And your Sam is dressed in similar fashion 
>> and just looks like it goes with your ‘fit. Thanks for posting; I get no 
>> small amount of delight from these Bike Style posts!
>> L
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2023, at 10:46 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>
>> I am not particularly stylish, but my cool but dry autumn day kit is 
>> extremely Vancouverite: 
>>
>>
>> - Du/er stretchy slim fit jeans
>> - Patagonia flannel shirt (absolutely the best quality flannel shirt I've 
>> ever touched) 
>> - Vessi waterproof sneakers 
>> - Arcteryx thin merino gloves (not pictured) 
>>
>> I neglected to wear a cap today, so style points lost there. My helmet is 
>> just an old MTB hand-me-down .. I need to refresh that. 
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> As it gets colder, I'll pull out the Randi Jo over-the-ear wool cap and 
>> wear the Ronnie leather gloves I recently purchased. 
>>
>> On Monday, 2 October 2023 at 19:18:28 UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>>
>>> It's like my foot changed in the last year or two... All the shoes in 
>>> the sizes I used to be able to wear no longer fit, and that goes for bike 
>>> shoes, formal shoes, casual shoes... Bought a pair of those VeloSambas – in 
>>> BLUE SUEDE, and TWO sizes larger than I used to wear, which now somehow 
>>> fits – and am about to try them out on the bike. 
>>>
>>> - Max "if the shoe fits, wear it" in A2 
>>>
>>> [image: best foot forward.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:02:32 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Max - I love the shoes. If those didn’t work out, you’ll grace us with 
 a photo on the bike of their replacements, I just know it.

 Luke - so good. Black on black with all the accessories (“cuz men gotta 
 have their accessories”), looking fit and content on that Atlantis with 
 the 
 rainbow top tube. Love it. 
 Goal: Find you a bike style photographer like Luke’s. 

 On Oct 2, 2023, at 12:52 AM, Luke Hendrickson  
 wrote:

 

 


 On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 9:27:02 PM UTC-7 J wrote:

> That Coppi chest pocket shirt above was remade by Ostroy 
> https://ostroy.com/products/mesh-resort-shirt-with-front-buttons-pocket
>
>
> On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 9:41:19 PM UTC-4 Pam Bikes wrote:
>
>> Love that you match your bike so well.  Great style for your bike and 
>> you!  You are a well-matched pair.
>>
>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 2:31:11 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Okay...I'll risk the catcalls and cheap jokes - here's a glamour pic 
>>> of my stylish riding kit. I say "function first & to each their own". 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_1918.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:41:28 AM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 Johnny, fellow Gex Xer here. 80s fashion was something to behold 
 indeed! I must say that I do miss my black Members Only jacket and 
 wish I 
 still had it. I'll leave the denim jean jacket in the past though 
 along 
 with the mullet haircut.
 Doug

 On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:18:12 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien 
 wrote:

> *where. Man do I hate that there is no edit functionality
>
> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:17:31 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm firmly Gen X and we 100% were doing pegged pant legs in the 
>> 80's. Hip to do with a pair of Bugle Boys. 90's fashion is OK to 
>> make a 
>> comeback but 80's is not. Let's leave that were it was. :)
>>
>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 5:31:15 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle 
>> Ding Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> 
>>> Gosh, Dani

Re: [RBW] Re: What shoes does your Riv wear?

[Piaw Na]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 3:27:09 PM UTC-7 divis...@gmail.com wrote:


Over the last few months, I've flatted three or four times on the RHes; 
clearly, the tread has worn thin. I was discussing the issue with a 
repairman at one of the local bike kitchens. He mentioned that GK Slicks 
hold up fine, but it takes a while for the rubber to cure - several months, 
or several hundred miles. Although that's in keeping with bike tire 
traditions ("inflate your new tubulars on a rim and age them over the 
winter" et al), it had never occurred to me that my shiny-new tires might 
take a period of aging to be fully ready for road use. I've reinstalled the 
GKs and put about 250 miles on them without incident. Maybe the intervening 
20 months has aged the rubber enough to stand up to small road hazards? 
Fingers crossed...


That seems unlikely to be true. As for your unluckiness with flats, I think 
that's just a run of bad luck (running over glass at night). I have not 
noticed that new tires puncture any less frequently than old tires. I 
regularly run tires until the rubber wears away and I can see the nylon 
cords below.  What I do notice is that some tires (e.g., the Continental 
tires) have so much tread on them that the sidewalls are more likely to die 
than the tread to wear out. But that may be that I ride more off pavement 
on my tires than most, giving more opportunities to have cuts on the tire.
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Babies on bikes

[Piaw Na]

I definitely think that too few parents consider tandems/triplets for their 
kids. I have a custom kidback built by the late Peter Johnson and my kids 
rode them a lot when they were small. Here's what they looked like when 
they were 4 and 7 riding in Switzerland: 

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WoGpbwSHABs/XSHtSl9rWQI/AAAE7y4/DQlYnVWKC845Ako73oKKfMFopttW1sdFACKgBGAs/s1600/IMG_20190615_131810.jpg

The 4 year old would fall asleep in the middle of the afternoon and we'd 
have to take a nap break for him, but those days go by fast and today he's 
8 and speeding to school on his Woom 5 and his mom cannot keep up with him 
without turning on the ebike motor. In preschool he was one of the first 
kids to learn to ride a bike with pedals and no training wheels. He showed 
up for the school's bike race and from way back lapped the field twice. We 
sold a lot of Woom 2s that day. :-)

On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 8:23:28 AM UTC-7 josh.zi...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Kickbacks are the best!!!
>
> If you have the room for one setting up a tandem like the one in picture 
> is 100% the most fun way to ride with a kid (not a baby).  Really engaging 
> and bonding style to go about!
>
> Sheldon Brown and some tandem outfitter site (name escapes me) had tons of 
> great information!
>
> Kidback to crankarm shortness to regular ol tandem is the process.
>
> Josh Z
> Oregon
>
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2023, 8:23 AM John Dewey  wrote:
>
>> Y'all, 
>>
>> Dewey kids started riding bikes shortly after they were born. Kid #2, our 
>> son, had his first bike ride at 6 weeks in a little baby 'backpack carrier' 
>> along some gravel roads in Northern Minnesota in 1981. When he was 2 years 
>> old he 'graduated' (got bumped up) to the back of our good ol' Santana 
>> tandem and at age 3 he finished a half-century. Both kids had completed 
>> centurys by their 3rd birthdays. In 1996, we rode same tandem from Seattle 
>> to Thief River Falls, MN, mostly along tiny Canadian backroads. Purist 
>> magic!
>>
>> And 42 years later now, we are still riding together...the best riding 
>> pal I've ever had. And so grateful for it.
>>
>> [image: JD & TJD.jpg]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 8:31 PM Michael Baquerizo  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> it might not just be research but also law. you should check in your 
>>> area. 
>>>
>>> i started when we were allowed to, i think still before 1 YO. we used a 
>>> yepp maxi because i didn’t want to have to buy a mini and then a maxi after 
>>> he grew out of it. but i regretted not being able to have him in the front 
>>> with me. 
>>>
>>> fast forward a few years and i helped a friend install a mini on his 
>>> bike w swept back bars. it was impossible to ride around with, and there 
>>> wasn’t even a kid on it when i tried. turning was impossible. i’m sure 
>>> there’s an ideal setup for it like a rosco bebbe) but a ‘normal’ bike is 
>>> not it  
>>>
>>> i still use the yepp maxi on a nitto campee rear rack, for sure not 
>>> rated for his weight and it’s about time i switch out racks for something 
>>> beefier. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 10:58:35 PM UTC-4 Kushan wrote:
>>>
 Looking for wisdom and advice from the Riv community on riding bikes 
 with babies on them. At what age did you start? What seats, trailers, etc 
 did you use? Where did you ride? 

 My little one just turned 6 months old and I am itching to introduce 
 him to bike rides. He can sit on his own and does pretty well in carriers 
 (both facing in and out). He loves being outside and I would love to do a 
 ride with him on a car-free bike paths or (non-technical) dirt trails. 
 Most 
 online resources recommend biking with babies after 1 year of age but I am 
 not sure if that's based on any actual research. 

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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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[RBW] Roadini Demo Loop

[Piaw Na]

I have a friend visiting in October and he's going to test ride my Roadini, 
so I laid out (and rode) what I consider an ideal loop to show off how 
versatile a bike the Roadini is:

https://www.strava.com/activities/9869749317

(Dirt Alpine is closed for construction or I'd use that instead of climbing 
Page Mill Road). It's got paved climbs and descents, single track (not very 
technical, but technical enough that I wouldn't want to ride my road bike 
with 28mm tires down it), fast fire road, a river crossing, and a few 
places where you can catch air at speed with the bike. 

That got me thinking: what's the ideal ride in your area for whatever 
Rivendell bike you have?

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[RBW] Re: Kickstarter Project - Ride Bike!

[Piaw Na]

I got my copy just before labor day. Here's my quickie review:

It's no secret that I'd been a follower of the late Jobst Brandt for many 
years, and have indeed read all of his trip reports hoping to follow some 
of his routes and glean his hotel recommendations. When Isola press offered 
a Kickstarter copy 
 of a 
book with photos from his various outings to the alps I jumped on it, 
knowing full well that most of the text would have been stuff I'd read 
before.

My kickstarter copy was a softcover with high quality perfect bound back. 
The binding is such that it's not easy for the book to lay flat, so it's 
best read with both hands on the book. The photographs and drawings are 
reproduced with high fidelity, including the faded photographs from his 
youth. The slides of course reproduce well with no hint of color fading. 
You get to see how much ice there used to be on the Rhone Glacier and on 
Grosse Scheidegg back in the 70s and 80s, and how the glaciers there are 
now but pale shadows of their former self. You also get to see how few 
cyclists there used to be.

I did learn many things in this book, including about his honeymoon drive 
through the alps, as well as the story of how he got into Stanford (yes, 
faculty kids do get legacy-style access to top universities).   The old ad 
copy of him leaning his bike way over on treadless tires reminds me that so 
many follow-ons (like Jan Heine) are basically frauds in terms of actually 
understanding the mechanics behind traction. The text is well organized and 
fun to read, including stories from industry luminaries such as Tom Ritchey 
and Joe Breeze (who's confusedly abbreviated as JBr in the book!).

The whole book oozes quality, and I reads it cover to cover in a night. 
You're unlikely to find it at the library but it will look nice on your 
bookshelf. Recommended.

On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7 Michael Connors wrote:

> I ordered the new book from Isola Press.  They are also printing more 
> Bicycle Wheel books. The book is half pictures and half stories from his 
> friends. Payment is in British pounds, but it ships from Traverse City MI.
>
> [image: jobst.jpg]
>

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[RBW] Re: Babies on bikes

[Piaw Na]

I used the Chariot 
Cougar: 
https://blog.piaw.net/2011/12/review-chariot-cougar-1-strollerbike.html. 
It doubles as the world's most luxurious stroller until they turn 10 and 
can wear helmets easily. We used the heck out of this thing 2 kids and used 
it everywhere, but to be honest once we got the triplet the kids lost 
interest once they were big enough to use the triplet (though occasionally 
we'd tow it along so that the smaller kid could shift to the trailer after 
falling asleep on the triplet). If you don't already have a trailer you'll 
keep this one as a trailer long after the kids stop using it. Trailers are 
useful!

On Friday, September 1, 2023 at 7:58:35 PM UTC-7 Kushan wrote:

> Looking for wisdom and advice from the Riv community on riding bikes with 
> babies on them. At what age did you start? What seats, trailers, etc did 
> you use? Where did you ride? 
>
> My little one just turned 6 months old and I am itching to introduce him 
> to bike rides. He can sit on his own and does pretty well in carriers (both 
> facing in and out). He loves being outside and I would love to do a ride 
> with him on a car-free bike paths or (non-technical) dirt trails. Most 
> online resources recommend biking with babies after 1 year of age but I am 
> not sure if that's based on any actual research. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Alternatives to Snoqualmie Pass?

[Piaw Na]

I've been running the Terraspeed 40mm (measuring 38mm on my A23 rims). I 
have no stomach for the prices Rene Herse charges for their tires, but I 
don't think the Terra Speed are going to satisfy you if you're riding in 
mud. My experience with the Terraspeed is that in mud, you're going to spin 
the tires for about half a pedal stroke before the tire sinks enough into 
the mud to bite. It's a bit disconcerting, but here in California mud 
doesn't happen often and I want the lightest possible tire because every 
ride here starts with a 2000' climb.

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 5:37:14 AM UTC-7 Adam wrote:

>  My tires are around 40-41mm on Dyads (19mm, I think).
>
> Great feel, fast, horrible in mud, great in everything else, maybe a 
> little too fragile for what they enable me to ride.
>
> I'm going to try the Terra Speed see how it goes. The price on those is 
> very good at the moment, and I'd feel OK with those under 52mm fenders, I 
> think.
> On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 10:41:08 PM UTC-5 John Rinker wrote:
>
>> Hello Eliot,
>>
>> 'I’m just starting my own frustrating but blissful journey with RH SP.'
>>
>> Just wondering what has been frustrating about your experience with the 
>> Snoqualmies?
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>> On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 7:03:28 PM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m curious to hear what others say. Nothing will be AS plush but you 
>>> should be able to find a trade off for slightly more grip in exchange for 
>>> slightly worse road feel.
>>>
>>> I always liked the Vittoria Terreno Dry in 650b but I don’t know how 
>>> they translate to 700c.
>>>
>>> I’m just starting my own frustrating but blissful journey with RH SP.
>>>
>>> Other tires I considered were the Specialized Pathfinder Pro and 
>>> Schwalbe G-One RS. 
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 6:42 PM Adam  wrote:
>>>
 Hi all,

 Too many holes in the tread of my snoqualmie pass ELs, time to move 
 them on.

 Asking the timeless question: which tires should I buy for the 
 Hillborne?

 I see endless variations of "gravel" tires in this size range. Anyone 
 find anything that compares well to the Rene Herse stuff? I found gravel 
 kings noticeably slower and less plush. I'm thinking about trying the 
 Terra 
 Speeds that are on sale a few places.

 Other ideas? I'm inclined towards slightly knobby, but have been doing 
 OK with the file tread.

 Thanks,

 Adam


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 .

>>>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Piaw Na]

Foothill/Los Altos isn't the den of bike thieves that a big city college 
campus like Berkeley or City College San Francisco is going to be. Of 
course, my mother in law left a $1700 REI ebike unattended outside ranch 99 
for a few minutes while shopping and of course it was gone before she came 
back.

Here's the thing: if you can be bothered to be on a bicycle mailing list at 
all you're probably a bikie and would care about bikes.  Someone who's not 
a bike (like me during my freshman year in college) is going to get a bike 
stolen and shrug. (I hurt more from my MIL losing her ebike than she did 
--- she shrugged and walked home --- needless to say we did not buy her 
another expensive bike to replace the one that was stolen!) 

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[RBW] Re: PSA: Thomson 26.8 Masterpiece Clearance

[Piaw Na]

Ha! It's not just me then! I had to crank down on the seatpost clamp to 
keep things from slipping. The masterpiece seatpost doesn't slip as readily 
as the kalloy though

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 1:15:36 AM UTC-7 Nick Payne wrote:

> I was a bit pissed off when I found on delivery that the latest Rivendell 
> frame I bought took a 26.8 seatpost. The three previous Riv frames I have 
> all use 27.2. And in fact, this latest frame wasn't even accurately sized 
> for 26.8 - the Kalloy seatpost that came with it, and which was a true 26.8 
> by my vernier calipers, was a slightly loose fit in the seat tube. So I 
> reamed the seat tube to 27.0 and used a 27.0 Nitto S83.
>
> Nick Payne
>

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[RBW] Re: Routine maintenance / habits / survey

[Piaw Na]

I live in California but I ride year round, so I don't avoid rain. I also 
take a perverse pleasure in destroying bike parts and bike frames, to the 
point where I actually track mileage on various 
components: https://blog.piaw.net/2009/04/lifetime-of-bike-parts.html

I check my chain every month or so, and I wear the tires down to the 
casing. I buy high quality parts and don't usually need to do more than 
replacing a BB every 25000 miles. I used to run Shimano hubs and got tired 
of paying to repack the bearings. It turned out that while I could clean 
and grease the hubs, I hated messing with the preload and the special 
spanners. After about 5 years the maintenance from paying someone to 
overhaul the bearings costs more than the hubs themselves, so now I've 
switched to sealed bearing hubs. I don't tear down my bikes to do 
maintenance, just replace whatever parts wear out as they go bad. I've 
discovered that things like headsets don't go bad. Living in California I 
don't need anti-rust, despite riding in the rain --- they don't put salt on 
the roads and the rain cleans the bike for me.

I do build my own wheels whenever I can. Though now that I've found Ted 
Nugent's website I can't build my own wheels cheaper than buying from him, 
so I might just buy from Nugent from now on. I don't even clean my bikes 
--- which is why sometimes I'll break a frame and not notice until the bike 
starts shifting on its own and I inspect it for cracks --- another reason I 
shouldn't ride carbon bikes.

Things that have me going to bike shops: (1) bent derailleur hanger --- 
they can fix it far faster than I can, and I can't be bothered to buy the 
tool. (2) kids bikes indexing --- don't like messing with those and I can't 
ever get them right anyway (3) suspension overhauls -- don't have the tools 
(4) hydraulic disc brakes --- those go on MTBs which don't get high mileage 
and I don't want to mess with those.

On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 1:56:02 PM UTC-7 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> Howdy all, 
>
> I am curious in what sort of maintenance you and your Riv's (and other 
> bikes) undergo. 
>
> 1. location (climate variable) 
> 2. how often do you tinker with your bike (customizing, small adjustments, 
> wash, grease) (can you over grease?) 
> 3. how often do you full tear down (do you re-treat anti-rust?) 
> 4. when do you cave and let a shop work on your bike?
>
> My current routine is a little lacking or in need of adjustment in a 
> somewhat new to me climate. I am a frequent tinkerer of bikes - and I have 
> a weird hang-ups with letting shops work on my bikes. I've only had a few 
> trusted mechanics that I've really felt comfortable working on my bikes. 
> I've had some things installed by mechanics and find they rarely grease 
> anything which leads to rusting at contact points which bothers me. I have 
> no idea the correct amount of grease, but previously never had much for 
> issue myself. 
>
> I've moved to the coast (Vancouver bc) and been finding that my bikes 
> really rust or corrode much more quickly here than living in Minnesota, or 
> Alberta. (winter slurry aside). I try to rinse off my bike a few times a 
> week during rainy season to prevent road goo from accumulating - but that 
> is easier said than done. I probably give a quick scrub with a brush and 
> hose once a month (maybe every 3-6 months with soap). I probably tinker 
> once a month with installing parts or making minor adjustments so these 
> often coincide. 
>
> I usually try to do a full tear down yearly where I scrub and re-grease 
> everything. I love fluid film so try to give a quick respray on the most 
> vulnerable areas (I like it more than frame saver) and replace any bits n 
> bobs that needs replacing. I wipe down  and degrease any external grease or 
> fluid film. 
>
> After this summer's first (yearly) tear down - I noticed a lot more 
> corrosion or rust than on previous bikes. I am assuming that it is perhaps 
> partly related to coastal climate. Not to mention that finish on the 
> Clementine is abysmal (lots of chipping and cracking). But really don't 
> want to repaint if I don't have to. The frame was also initially un-treated 
> and I've since treated as well as loaded up most contact points with more 
> fluid film and/or grease. Hoping it'll be less of an issue now that I've 
> undergone my normal corrosion prevention routine. 
>
> Curious what your habits are - (bonus if you live on the coast!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Piaw Na]

I went to college at Cal Berkeley. My first bike in the USA, a $50 walmart 
special, got stolen my first year while I was attending a lecture at Warren 
Hall. After that pain, I never had a bike stolen again, since I learned to 
lock the bike properly and bring it into my house/apartment overnight. I 
submit that the Clem should be the second bike your son rides in college. 

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[RBW] Re: Ride Reports (PNW and France)

[Piaw Na]

When I lived in Munich I'd go for rides every weekend and it was always so 
good. Having a train to take you home meant you could range further and get 
into bigger trouble. One day I rode through a forest and climbed a ladder 
onto what was obviously a road. I rode on it and everyone honked at me. I 
said to myself: "These Germans are really friendly." 10km later I realized 
I was on the autobahn. (I actually kept track of those 
trips: https://blog.piaw.net/2008/12/munich-trips-index.html)

On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 9:09:14 AM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey all!
>
> I've been messing around with writing some ride reports on my website 
> . For the 
> most part, they are around the Pacific Northwest. My girlfriend and I are 
> taking significant time off work and moved to Paris for summer/fall. We 
> brought our bikes with us, and I'll be continuing to write up some rides 
> here in France! I thought I'd share them here with ya'll to enjoy! Thanks 
> for reading!
>
> -Kyle
>

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[RBW] Anyone using the new Linkglide drivetrain?

[Piaw Na]

It's supposedly 3 times more durable than hyperglide, which is intriguing. 
I saw that even Grant asked a question on this article about linkglide and 
friction 
shifting: 
https://nsmb.com/articles/shimano-inadvertently-upgrades-friction-shifting/

I'm now wondering how compatible it is with my 11s bar-end microshift 
shifter and whenter I can just use my m5100 rear derailleur and not have to 
switch derailleurs.

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[RBW] Re: So I tried bike racing...

[Piaw Na]

I never understood the need for groups of cyclists to denigrate the kind of 
cycling other people do.

In the 1990s, I rode with a cyclist who was sponsored by Bridgestone, Eric 
House (the first man to do Furnace Creek 508 in under 30 
hours: https://www.furnacecreek508.com/reports/1992fc508.html).

One time he read an article on the Rivendell Reader where Grant wrote about 
cycling for fun being a better form of cycling than racing. He said: "What, 
those of us who commute or use the bike for utility can't be in a hurry to 
get to a meeting on time?" Every time you have to take your kids to school 
on a bike you're effectively in a race against time, and there's absolutely 
nothing wrong with that. Sure, it's nice to have lots of time and go as 
slow as you like, but I found Eric House's arguments compelling as well. 
And there are times when you feel like pushing hard and there's also 
nothing wrong with that.

Similarly sometimes I read something about how certain forms of mountain 
biking should be considered "stunt riding", and I find myself thinking, if 
they're having fun on a bike, I see nothing wrong with that. The first 
folks who descended Mt. Tam on balloon tires were denigrated by the Sierra 
Clubs and other conservative organizations as doing something unnatural. In 
the end cyclists lost the battle and most single-track on Mt. Tam, the 
birthplace of mountain biking is banned to cyclists. I find that very sad.

One of my friends recently convinced me to visit Whistler for a downhill 
MTB trip. It's the antithesis of what I usually do, taking a ski lift up a 
mountain and riding the bike downhill 
(https://blog.piaw.net/2023/07/2023-whistler-day-1.html). When I got off 
the ski lift I rode up the ramp to the start of one of the trails and the 
instructor said to me, "You're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to 
walk up the ramp." It was hilarious since obviously in road cycling, 
walking means failure. My kids complained about having to take classes and 
threatened to crash deliberately so they didn't have to do it. But by the 
end of the 3rd day they were no longer complaining and the older one asked 
for a fourth day. As one of my friends said: "When you do a jump and get a 
half second of air time it's one of the most amazing feelings in the 
world." And once again I find it hard to argue against that.

All I have to say is ride bike. Any bike anywhere any time. It's always 
better than being in a car, and it's always fun!  

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> ... and it was a ton of fun!
>
> My paddling buddy called me a couple days before the Great American 
> Triathlon  because they needed a 
> cyclist to ride as part of a relay team. I've never raced before, but I 
> have been riding touring bikes and commuting since 2007, living the "Riv 
> Life". Along the way I've picked up a fair amount of prejudice towards 
> racing, but now I realize that my attitude was indeed just that- prejudice. 
> Racing offers its own kind of joy.
>
> I rode my craigslist special, a steel fixed gear Bianchi San Jose with 
> 40mm tires and a 76.5" gear. Among the relay teams, it was the only fixed 
> gear, and the only single speed. Most people had carbon road bikes, and 
> there were a handful of time trial bikes. I did see one classic, high 
> handlebar laid back Rivendell. I performed better than I expected, 
> averaging 22 mph over the 12.5 mile course to place 8th out of 129 teams 
> for the cycling leg. Drafting was allowed, but I didn't have a chance to 
> draft anyone, because our runner (the first leg) was extremely fast with a 
> 5:20 mile pace, and that gave me a 3 minute head start.
>
> I would do it again, because I enjoyed pushing myself as hard as I could. 
> If there were convenient local bike races, then I would go, but I don't 
> feel compelled to go seek them out. I feel no desire to buy a faster bike, 
> although I might increase the gear ratio a bit if I train and get stronger.
>
> Bikes offer so many ways to have fun!
>

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[RBW] Touring Terminology (was Re: Best Riv Rando Bike)

[Piaw Na]

Grant described the intent of the Rambouillet to me as a French 
audax-inspired bike when I spoke to him about a bike for a cross country 
ride (and afterwards) that would be a light load, credit card trip versus 
self-supported full touring one.

I have to chime in and talk about types of touring:

I think what Andy meant was "Expedition-style touring": that's where you're 
carrying camping gear, possibly cookware, food, and water.
Self-supported means you're carrying everything you need with no 
follow-vehicle or luggage delivery. You can stay in hotels or camp, but 
what matters is that you're making decisions as to where you go and where 
to stay each night.

I wrote an essay about this years ago that notes that one form of touring 
isn't better than 
another: 
https://blog.piaw.net/2008/02/cycle-touring-and-spriit-of-adventure.html

In fact, the lighter your load, the more you can do, and if you know you're 
not going to be pitching a tent and cooking your own food you can actually 
get more aggressive and ride higher mountains or dirt trails you might 
otherwise avoid if you're carrying a heavy expedition style load.
 

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[RBW] Re: Forks and adjusting headsets

[Piaw Na]

Are the FSA Duron headsets that come with Rivs sealed bearings? The FSA 
website claims angular contact bearings but lists the seals separately?

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 10:00:56 AM UTC-7 Wesley wrote:

> This advice all applies only to threaded forks (all Rivs except Gus and 
> tandem):
> 1. Use as many spacers as necessary so that the lock nut (top nut) is 
> fully engaged with the threads but doesn't bottom out.
> 2. Most (or all) threaded forks have a key groove in the steer tube, 
> cutting vertically through the threads (it is barely visible at 4:23 in the 
> video you linked). A lock washer goes on the stack above the bottom nut 
> (which is the top bearing's inner race), with a tab or "key" that fits in 
> this groove. As a result, the lock washer cannot spin relative to the steer 
> tube. Thus, friction from the spinning of the locknut and spacers above 
> this lock washer cannot cause the bottom nut to spin. So that bottom nut 
> will stay where you left it, even though you may crank down the top (aka 
> lock) nut with just one wrench.
> 3. There is an ideal tightness to which you will set the bearing. But the 
> lock nut works by stretching the steel of the steer tube (just a tiny bit!) 
> until the threads don't engage the bottom nut (this is why the bottom nut 
> doesn't work loose over rough terrain). Stretching the steer tube elongates 
> it, so the bearings get looser. Therefore, you must adjust the bearing to 
> be too tight before the locknut goes on, so that the stretching brings the 
> bearing to ideal tightness. Accomplishing this requires a feel that 
> develops over time. Or you could just get a sealed-bearing headset, which 
> allow much more leeway in bearing adjustment without feeling loose or tight 
> (because a sealed bearing headset squeezes the bearing races, not the 
> balls.)
>
> Hope this helps!
> -Wes
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 8:33:48 AM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:
>
>> There was a conversation on the Roadini thread 
>>  about 
>> adjusting the headset after fork removal.  This is something I've wondered 
>> for a while - some say you need to wrenches others one, my experience is if 
>> I tighten and back a bit I can move the nut with my hand.
>>
>> Does anyone have a solid explanation of how it's done? When installing 
>> one of my forks on a new bike I had found this video  
>> from Rivendell where you can see the 
>> process but I'm still unsure of how tight I should go? Should I use a 
>> wrench or is it enough to hand tighten?
>>
>> Also, how many spacers should one use when setting up a fork?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Max
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: ISO Roadini...or?

[Piaw Na]

2 cents: don't get carried away with frame weight, especially when 
comparing steel frames. I'd focus more on geometry. I wanted my Roadini 
build to scratch the same itch but the long wheelbase didn't align with my 
idea of a zippy, skinny-tire road bike. 


Geometry is by far the most important thing on a road bike. And I include 
the diameter of the tubes as well as the wall thickness. Having said that, 
I don't think I'd ever consider weight unimportant. If you're a heavy 
rider, maybe it matters less, but the lighter you are the more weight 
matters. At 140 pounds or so (going down to 130 pounds when touring), the 
difference between a 30 pound MTB and a 24 pound Roadini is very 
noticeable. Lighter bikes also mean I have an easier time placing the 
wheels precisely on a single track trail. They're also way more fun to 
ride. Finally, if you ever have to fly with the bike, United airlines has a 
50 pound limit for those of us who're not premiere or paying for business 
class international flights. A lighter bike lets you fly with the bike in a 
sturdy trico ironcase (weight 30 pounds!) without having to pay the $200 
oversize/overweight penalty. I do everything I can to shave the weight of a 
bike down without sacrificing reliability. I simply don't have any excess 
power to waste!
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: ISO Roadini...or?

[Piaw Na]

Haha. I haven't touched my Chris King threadless headset on my touring bike 
for years. Getting all the play out took quite a bit of futzing so now I 
avoid messing with it.   For a threaded headset I remember you need 2 
wrenches. Just one more thing I don't want to deal with while I'm 
jet-lagged and putting together the bike at a hotel under time pressure.

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 9:55:40 AM UTC-7 chasenl...@gmail.com wrote:

> Piaw- it does, I was intimidated but I saw a plp vid where he uses the 
> case w a threaded fork, so I just got one of those mini adjustable wrenches 
> that Riv sells and it’s p smooth sailing as long as you keep up with 
> everything. I saw Russ posting recently about some Topeak travel-specific, 
> light-looking, flat headset wrenches that would be amazing for this 
> application, but they most be a prototype, can’t find them anywhere.
>
> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 12:35 PM Piaw Na(藍俊彪)  wrote:
>
>> Doesn't the post-transfer case require fork removal? Is that hard to do 
>> on the threaded headset? I've always avoided cases that require fork 
>> removal.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 8:40 AM Chasen Smith  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Going off of what Piaw said of the AHH, the fact that the roadini will 
>>> fit in my post transfer case was a huge factor in my decision to get one! 
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 10:47 AM Piaw Na  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let me break down the road bike selection from Rivendell:
>>>>
>>>> Sam: I refuse to consider this a road bike since it doesn't take 
>>>> sidepull calipers. :-) I've always hated both cantilever and v-brakes, 
>>>> having experienced many reliability issues with them (they're probably 
>>>> better now, but I still get PTSD from having them fall apart on me once 
>>>> and 
>>>> hours spent dealing with a heron that squealed like the proverbial stuck 
>>>> pig when descending major passes in the alps). I consider even disc brakes 
>>>> to be a better compromise if you need wider tires than a Tektro 559. And 
>>>> those squeal too just not as badly.
>>>> Roadeo: classic road bike using medium reach brakes  I've got a 
>>>> friend who got a Lynskey built up to match the geometry (Rivendell only 
>>>> had 
>>>> one demo Roadeo when he wanted to buy and the wait was such that a custom 
>>>> Lynskey would deliver faster) and he loves it. If you don't need more than 
>>>> 35mm tires it's a great bike.
>>>> Roadini: gravelish bike with Tektro brakes that can take 42mm tires. 
>>>> The higher BB means you can't treat it like a MTB and never have a pedal 
>>>> strike no matter what trails you ride on. It's versatile and heavier but a 
>>>> reasonable compromise.
>>>> AHH: fully lugged road bike with a low BB built for tires wider than 
>>>> 30mm. The ultra long chainstays means it's suitable for even rougher 
>>>> trails 
>>>> than the Roadini but might also mean it's harder to fly with. The 135mm 
>>>> rear wheel is strong enough to handle anything a MTB can. With good bike 
>>>> handling skills and 45mm tires this would be my choice for bikepacking 
>>>> (though I'm light enough the Roadini will serve well there).
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 7:39:03 AM UTC-7 Piaw Na wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Oh yeah, the AHH doesn't have downtube shifter bosses, while the 
>>>>> Roadini does. Again, a minor consideration --- I'm happy with my downtube 
>>>>> shifter on my Roadini, but it wouldn't have killed me to go to bar-end 
>>>>> shifters.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 7:35:31 AM UTC-7 Piaw Na wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The AHH has 50cm chainstays, which might make it hard to fit into my 
>>>>>> bike box for flying (I use a Trico-Ironcase). The AHH also takes 135mm 
>>>>>> rear 
>>>>>> wheels, while the wheels I had hanging in the garage were all 130mm 
>>>>>> wheels. 
>>>>>> Grant advised against cold setting an AHH. In exchange the Roadini has a 
>>>>>> 5mm higher BB, which I dislike (others claim you can't tell the 
>>>>>> difference 
>>>>>> but I can, from having ridden an 80mm drop touring bike for many years), 
>>>>>> but something I'm willing to trade. If my current custom t

Re: [RBW] Re: ISO Roadini...or?

[Piaw Na]

Let me break down the road bike selection from Rivendell:

Sam: I refuse to consider this a road bike since it doesn't take sidepull 
calipers. :-) I've always hated both cantilever and v-brakes, having 
experienced many reliability issues with them (they're probably better now, 
but I still get PTSD from having them fall apart on me once and hours spent 
dealing with a heron that squealed like the proverbial stuck pig when 
descending major passes in the alps). I consider even disc brakes to be a 
better compromise if you need wider tires than a Tektro 559. And those 
squeal too just not as badly.
Roadeo: classic road bike using medium reach brakes  I've got a friend 
who got a Lynskey built up to match the geometry (Rivendell only had one 
demo Roadeo when he wanted to buy and the wait was such that a custom 
Lynskey would deliver faster) and he loves it. If you don't need more than 
35mm tires it's a great bike.
Roadini: gravelish bike with Tektro brakes that can take 42mm tires. The 
higher BB means you can't treat it like a MTB and never have a pedal strike 
no matter what trails you ride on. It's versatile and heavier but a 
reasonable compromise.
AHH: fully lugged road bike with a low BB built for tires wider than 30mm. 
The ultra long chainstays means it's suitable for even rougher trails than 
the Roadini but might also mean it's harder to fly with. The 135mm rear 
wheel is strong enough to handle anything a MTB can. With good bike 
handling skills and 45mm tires this would be my choice for bikepacking 
(though I'm light enough the Roadini will serve well there).

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 7:39:03 AM UTC-7 Piaw Na wrote:

> Oh yeah, the AHH doesn't have downtube shifter bosses, while the Roadini 
> does. Again, a minor consideration --- I'm happy with my downtube shifter 
> on my Roadini, but it wouldn't have killed me to go to bar-end shifters.
>
> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 7:35:31 AM UTC-7 Piaw Na wrote:
>
>> The AHH has 50cm chainstays, which might make it hard to fit into my bike 
>> box for flying (I use a Trico-Ironcase). The AHH also takes 135mm rear 
>> wheels, while the wheels I had hanging in the garage were all 130mm wheels. 
>> Grant advised against cold setting an AHH. In exchange the Roadini has a 
>> 5mm higher BB, which I dislike (others claim you can't tell the difference 
>> but I can, from having ridden an 80mm drop touring bike for many years), 
>> but something I'm willing to trade. If my current custom touring bike 
>> fails, I'll go for a custom bike with the Roadini geometry but with an 80 
>> or even 85mm BB drop now that I'm unlikely to ride tires narrower than 28mm.
>>
>> That's pretty much it. The extra $400 the AHH cost might also make a 
>> difference if you're stretching your budget, but it wasn't a big 
>> consideration for me.
>>
>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 6:32:03 AM UTC-7 Davey Two Shoes wrote:
>>
>>> Can someone explain to me what would prompt a decision for a roadini 
>>> over a Homer aside from price? I though the Homer was Rivs "zippy" 
>>> offering. With the Roadeo being their fast offering. The road bike category 
>>> at Riv is starting to get crowded between the Sam, Homer, Roadini and 
>>> Roadeo. I know Riv calls the Sam a Hilli/Gravel bike, but coming from a 
>>> modern gravel bike, and before that a Salsa Vaya, the Sam is definitely a 
>>> road bike that happens to be tough and capable elsewhere. But a Road Bike 
>>> when the day is done.
>>>
>>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 8:51:03 AM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> For some of us who have had back pain with more modern bikes Rivendells 
>>>> have always been a breath of fresh air. I started buying them in 1997 and 
>>>> have not looked back, they made riding possible for me again. 
>>>>
>>>> I do prefer the Rivs with the shorter for Riv  chainstays. Nice bikes 
>>>> for those of us who have issues with more aggressive geometries. For me 
>>>> not 
>>>> koolaide but a practical   comfort. 
>>>>
>>>> Glad your aluminum bike works for you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 2:13 AM Nick Payne  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 2:43:06 pm UTC+10 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Modern bikes are fine - I recommended the OP consider one as a 
>>>>> companion to his Sam - but being on a Rivendell group and calling us 
>>>>> "people who've drunk the Kool-Aid" is..

Re: [RBW] Re: ISO Roadini...or?

[Piaw Na]

Oh yeah, the AHH doesn't have downtube shifter bosses, while the Roadini 
does. Again, a minor consideration --- I'm happy with my downtube shifter 
on my Roadini, but it wouldn't have killed me to go to bar-end shifters.

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 7:35:31 AM UTC-7 Piaw Na wrote:

> The AHH has 50cm chainstays, which might make it hard to fit into my bike 
> box for flying (I use a Trico-Ironcase). The AHH also takes 135mm rear 
> wheels, while the wheels I had hanging in the garage were all 130mm wheels. 
> Grant advised against cold setting an AHH. In exchange the Roadini has a 
> 5mm higher BB, which I dislike (others claim you can't tell the difference 
> but I can, from having ridden an 80mm drop touring bike for many years), 
> but something I'm willing to trade. If my current custom touring bike 
> fails, I'll go for a custom bike with the Roadini geometry but with an 80 
> or even 85mm BB drop now that I'm unlikely to ride tires narrower than 28mm.
>
> That's pretty much it. The extra $400 the AHH cost might also make a 
> difference if you're stretching your budget, but it wasn't a big 
> consideration for me.
>
> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 6:32:03 AM UTC-7 Davey Two Shoes wrote:
>
>> Can someone explain to me what would prompt a decision for a roadini over 
>> a Homer aside from price? I though the Homer was Rivs "zippy" offering. 
>> With the Roadeo being their fast offering. The road bike category at Riv is 
>> starting to get crowded between the Sam, Homer, Roadini and Roadeo. I know 
>> Riv calls the Sam a Hilli/Gravel bike, but coming from a modern gravel 
>> bike, and before that a Salsa Vaya, the Sam is definitely a road bike that 
>> happens to be tough and capable elsewhere. But a Road Bike when the day is 
>> done.
>>
>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 8:51:03 AM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> For some of us who have had back pain with more modern bikes Rivendells 
>>> have always been a breath of fresh air. I started buying them in 1997 and 
>>> have not looked back, they made riding possible for me again. 
>>>
>>> I do prefer the Rivs with the shorter for Riv  chainstays. Nice bikes 
>>> for those of us who have issues with more aggressive geometries. For me not 
>>> koolaide but a practical   comfort. 
>>>
>>> Glad your aluminum bike works for you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 2:13 AM Nick Payne  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 2:43:06 pm UTC+10 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Modern bikes are fine - I recommended the OP consider one as a 
>>>> companion to his Sam - but being on a Rivendell group and calling us 
>>>> "people who've drunk the Kool-Aid" is... interesting 😐
>>>>
>>>> I have Rivendell bikes, and they're nice bikes to ride. I just don't 
>>>> think they're the be-all and end-all of bicycle design. What the OP seems 
>>>> to be looking for in a bike is closer to what you and I both recommended.
>>>>
>>>> Nick Payne
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/tAas6urcOwg/unsubscribe
>>>> .
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/13882503-75a4-40f2-9d54-176ca8afa9a8n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>  
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/13882503-75a4-40f2-9d54-176ca8afa9a8n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: ISO Roadini...or?

[Piaw Na]

The AHH has 50cm chainstays, which might make it hard to fit into my bike 
box for flying (I use a Trico-Ironcase). The AHH also takes 135mm rear 
wheels, while the wheels I had hanging in the garage were all 130mm wheels. 
Grant advised against cold setting an AHH. In exchange the Roadini has a 
5mm higher BB, which I dislike (others claim you can't tell the difference 
but I can, from having ridden an 80mm drop touring bike for many years), 
but something I'm willing to trade. If my current custom touring bike 
fails, I'll go for a custom bike with the Roadini geometry but with an 80 
or even 85mm BB drop now that I'm unlikely to ride tires narrower than 28mm.

That's pretty much it. The extra $400 the AHH cost might also make a 
difference if you're stretching your budget, but it wasn't a big 
consideration for me.

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 6:32:03 AM UTC-7 Davey Two Shoes wrote:

> Can someone explain to me what would prompt a decision for a roadini over 
> a Homer aside from price? I though the Homer was Rivs "zippy" offering. 
> With the Roadeo being their fast offering. The road bike category at Riv is 
> starting to get crowded between the Sam, Homer, Roadini and Roadeo. I know 
> Riv calls the Sam a Hilli/Gravel bike, but coming from a modern gravel 
> bike, and before that a Salsa Vaya, the Sam is definitely a road bike that 
> happens to be tough and capable elsewhere. But a Road Bike when the day is 
> done.
>
> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 8:51:03 AM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> For some of us who have had back pain with more modern bikes Rivendells 
>> have always been a breath of fresh air. I started buying them in 1997 and 
>> have not looked back, they made riding possible for me again. 
>>
>> I do prefer the Rivs with the shorter for Riv  chainstays. Nice bikes for 
>> those of us who have issues with more aggressive geometries. For me not 
>> koolaide but a practical   comfort. 
>>
>> Glad your aluminum bike works for you.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 2:13 AM Nick Payne  wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, 24 July 2023 at 2:43:06 pm UTC+10 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> Modern bikes are fine - I recommended the OP consider one as a companion 
>>> to his Sam - but being on a Rivendell group and calling us "people who've 
>>> drunk the Kool-Aid" is... interesting 😐
>>>
>>> I have Rivendell bikes, and they're nice bikes to ride. I just don't 
>>> think they're the be-all and end-all of bicycle design. What the OP seems 
>>> to be looking for in a bike is closer to what you and I both recommended.
>>>
>>> Nick Payne
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/tAas6urcOwg/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/13882503-75a4-40f2-9d54-176ca8afa9a8n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: ISO Roadini...or?

[Piaw Na]

High BB, short chainstays, steep seat-tube angles, and disc brakes? That's 
as far away from the Roadini as you can get. Add in wireless shifting and 
I'm sorry, that's just not comparable to any Rivendell I've seen!

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 2:00:11 PM UTC-7 Nick Payne wrote:

> I've come to like modern aluminium frames - they're a far cry from the 
> rigid Cannondales of 25 years ago. I've been riding bikes for about half a 
> century, and have multiple lugged frames spanning that period (including a 
> custom Riv and a Bleriot), but I reckon that the Mason Definition frameset 
> that I recently built up as a fairly lightweight zippy machine is the best 
> riding bike I've ever owned. It can fit 35mm tyres - Conti GP Urban are 
> what I'm using, and has rack and mudguard mounts on the frame if you want 
> to fit those.
> [image: PXL_20230712_031843355.jpg]
>
> Nick Payne
>

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[RBW] Re: Cargo/Kid bike recommendations (or bikefriday vs. tern)

[Piaw Na]

My personal solution was to get a tandem (really, a triplet/quad that 
converts). The kids love it, and we just rolled over 13k miles on it since 
getting it 8 years ago. Other parents will tell me that my kids are 
special, and that their kids couldn't stay on a bike that long. I would 
take their kids on the tandem and it turns out that their kids had no 
problem biking for as long as mine. It's just that most parents don't want 
to do the work. Yes, it's expensive (though not that expensive if you buy 
used), but in exchange you get kids that would rather go on a bike tour 
than disneyland.

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 10:49:29 AM UTC-7 Drw wrote:

> For the last 4 years I've been carrying my kid and all of our family's 
> gear on a rosco bubbe mountain step-thru with crust clydesdale fork. [image: 
> IMG_2875.jpg]
> Overall, it's been great, but as he gets bigger, having that amount of 
> weight, that high up, plus a decent load up front is starting to feel 
> really wiggly. I had early on thought that my son would be riding a bike 
> well enough to transition to one of those tag a long attachments like the 
> burley piccolo, but he has some sensory issues with balance and gross motor 
> that will probably make that not a real possibility before he is big enough 
> to just be riding fully on his own. 
>
> So, I'm looking for a compact cargo bike with the following requirements. 
> -Non electric
> -Footprint no bigger than a standard bike 
> -Platform/bench rear seat for kids
> -Some front cargo capability
> -uses deraillers (though i could be swayed to an IGH)
>
> Right now I am mostly looking at the bike friday haul-a-day elite 
> and 
> the tern short haul D8 
> . Both have pros 
> and cons. I am open to any other cool options. And any thoughts about the 
> above models would be appreciated as well. 
>
> Thanks,
> Drew
>
>

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Re: [RBW] ISO Roadini...or?

[Piaw Na]

My '93 RB-1 fit 32mm Avocet inverted thread cross-type tires. I bought the 
frame and fork (it came with a headset) and weighed it at the time. It was 
6.2 pounds or so (corroborated 
here: 
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/778487-bridgestone-rb-1-1993-a.html).
 
My Roadini, by contrast weighed about a pound more. I put some parts I had 
lying around and on it and it weighed about 22 pounds ready to ride 
(pedals, bottle cages, etc). I can't tell whether it's stiffer, but it's 
definitely more flexy than my Ti touring bike which has 43cm chainstays and 
is modeled after the RB-1.

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 5:35:06 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> I wish I had a breakdown by model and year (I don't!) but the Bridgestone 
> RB series varied the tire clearances by year. Some years fit a bigger tire 
> than others. For example, the TIG welded 1990 RB-2 could clear a 32mm tire. 
> I haven't encountered apocrypha indicating *any* RB-1 could clear more 
> than a 28mm. 
>
> More on that 1990 RB-2 here: 
> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/pdfs/bstoneRB2synergy1990.pdf
>
> As Ex Lion Tamer alludes to, there are other frames out there you can find 
> that are cheaper than a top tier Bridgestone. Those frames have a lot of 
> cache and often are not cheap. 
>
> Here's another helpful iBOB thread with some discussion on RB-1 ride 
> quality and suggestions for other frames to seek out: 
> https://groups.google.com/g/internet-bob/c/IYFf1tLmYPM/ 
>
> Grant would say that any Riv is better than any Bridgestone. Better made 
> and without compromises. If your POV on tubing and geometry aligns with 
> Grant's then Robert's your mother's brother. 
>
> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 8:24:18 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> The RB's in the 90's were advertised as around 22 lb total for a 
>> mid-sized frame and that was built with a lot of non-light parts. I would 
>> guess the frame is lighter weight and flexier than a roadini.
>>
>> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 7:46:23 AM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> If the Roadini with its double oversized tubing is lighter than an RB1… 
>>> I would be very surprised. I’ve owned both, but probably 20 years apart. 
>>> But tall head tubes, long chainstays, and heavy tubing all add up quickly. 
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, July 20, 2023, exliontamer  wrote:
>>>
 An RB-1 is a relatively heavy bike especially in 59cm & up & I wouldn't 
 be surprised if the Roadini is the same or possibly lighter. That said, I 
 don't think that's a bad thing depending on the frame size, your personal 
 pedaling style/power, weight, etc. When I was focused on only riding fast 
 I 
 had a 59cm frame with EL/OS tubing that was very thin walled, flexy, & 
 light. I'm 6'1" & weighed 160lbs at the time & that bike was too whippy 
 for 
 me personally. It took getting a '93 RB-1 (62cm wouldn't fit a 32 btw)  to 
 make me realize that I preferred a stiffer frame...also my average speed 
 increased even though the bike didn't "plane" & was 2 lbs heavier. 

 I'm glad Jan & that crew are doing their thing but the message can get 
 tedious. I'm sure it works for some people but a lot of it seems to be 
 presented in a one size fits all way. All that said there are a lot of 90s 
 steel frames that will fit a 28. Plenty of affordable lugged Bianchis that 
 will be lighter and less expensive than the RB-1. I also second the used 
 aluminum recommendation. Even the new Cannondale Optimo has clearance for 
 32s and, as long as a carbon fork doesn't freak you out, starts at 1k for 
 a 
 complete bike that's solidly spec'd and has rim brakes. 
 On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:27:12 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> It's sacrilege to say but if you want a zippy road bike as a 
> compliment to what you already have - a steel Rivendell road bike - for 
> $1000 or less you can scoop up an aluminum 
> Trek/Cannondale/Specialized/Giant off Craigslist and probably have a lot 
> of 
> fun. And you can test ride it! 
>
> On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:14:40 PM UTC-7 brenton...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have really fallen for these luscious new Roadini builds I've seen 
>> at Riv and Blue Lug.
>>
>> I have a Sam Hillborne and love it. It's been through several 
>> iterations of cockpit/racks/bags/brakes/wheels/tires and all have been 
>> really fun. Right now it has flat bars with sweep, chunky 47mm tires, 
>> and 
>> is an excellent all around adventure/trail/camping ride. It's currently 
>> my 
>> only bike!
>>
>> Before the Sam, I rode 90s road bikes exclusively for 20 years, and 
>> those worked great for city/commuting/neighborhood/pub rides. I've heard 
>> that the Roadini does NOT offer that kind of 
>> ride/speed/feel/handling/gusto/whatever, from several folks in this 
>> group

[RBW] Re: ISO Roadini...or?

[Piaw Na]

A drop bar Roadini with 25mm tires will feel great. With 32mm tires it's 
not going to feel like a 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 with 700x23 tires! But you 
already knew that. I don't think there's anything disappointing about the 
Roadini's ride. I think the extra long chainstay takes away from the "stick 
up your butt" feel of shorter chainstay bikes but that's a feature not a 
bug. I think you cannot compare anything with modern sized tires to a road 
bike that was optimized for 23mm tires way back when. Now if you're looking 
for lightweight you shouldn't be looking at a Rivendell.

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 6:14:40 PM UTC-7 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have really fallen for these luscious new Roadini builds I've seen at 
> Riv and Blue Lug.
>
> I have a Sam Hillborne and love it. It's been through several iterations 
> of cockpit/racks/bags/brakes/wheels/tires and all have been really fun. 
> Right now it has flat bars with sweep, chunky 47mm tires, and is an 
> excellent all around adventure/trail/camping ride. It's currently my only 
> bike!
>
> Before the Sam, I rode 90s road bikes exclusively for 20 years, and those 
> worked great for city/commuting/neighborhood/pub rides. I've heard that the 
> Roadini does NOT offer that kind of 
> ride/speed/feel/handling/gusto/whatever, from several folks in this group.
>
> So am I fooling myself into thinking another $2500 Riv build is going to 
> scratch the itch? Or should I buy a <$500 Japanese Road Bike that can hold 
> 33s and actually feel some performance?
>

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[RBW] Re: FT: Velocity Cliffhangers, SON Deluxe Widebody, White Industries MI5 wheelset

[Piaw Na]

I have a white industries rear hub hanging on a hook also because I can't 
deal with the noise. I swapped it out for a pair of wheels from Ted Neugent 
which were much quieter and lighter. I also have a set of wheels built with 
Miche Primato Syntesi hubs that are also a lot quieter. But people tell me 
that they want their hubs to be as loud as possible, but those are probably 
not the folks who populate this mailing list. :-)

On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 4:27:06 PM UTC-7 jaredwilson wrote:

> Thanks for all the responses, unfortunately nothing has materialized yet 
> so I'm still open to offers.
>
> Most looking for a pair of silver Velocity Atlas, Shimano rear hub... 
> prefer SON dynamo, could work with Shimano...or Kasai? Fairly flexible!
>
> Let's chat an get you on a SON/White Industries wheelset :)
>
> jared
>
> On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 8:43:24 AM UTC-7 jaredwilson wrote:
>
>> Hey group,
>>
>> Last listing went so well I'd like to see if there are any trade 
>> opportunities for this wheelset.
>>
>> I purchased these wheels in 2020 for my first Susie, and while they're 
>> amazing wheels I'm looking to "downgrade" in a sense. Mainly I don't need 
>> the width of the Cliffhangers, and the White Industries rear hub is is too 
>> loud for my taste so I'd like to switch to something quieter, and change to 
>> silver.
>>
>> Mine:
>>
>> Velocity Cliffhanger 700c rims 32h black
>>
>> Sapim Force Spokes with brass nipples black
>>
>> Son Deluxe Widebody dynamo hub black
>>
>> White Industries MI5 rear hub black
>>
>>
>> Great condition, present well and ride even better.
>>
>>
>>
>> Desired wheels:
>>
>> 700c
>>
>> Silver
>>
>> Tubeless compatible (not super essential but nice to have)
>>
>> Dynamo hub (LOVE my Son hub, would ideally have another)
>>
>> Quiet rear hub!!!
>>
>>
>> Let's chat if you would like an opportunity to upgrade your existing 
>> wheels, I'm sure there's a deal to be made somehow.
>>
>>
>> Thanks and please respond off list :)
>>
>>
>> jared
>>
>>
>> *Photo of complete bike because wheels are mounted and currently in use, 
>> Platypus not for sale ;)
>>
>>
>> [image: IMG_6847.jpg]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Northern Hemisphere Summer Riding Photos 2023

[Piaw Na]

What I want to know is how did you get over that gate? I've always wanted 
to ride all the way up to the concert venue but it always said no bikes. 
Your 26x28 gearing is still a higher bailout gear than my 40x51 (or 38x51 
on the roadini). I use the lowest gear on Bohlman-On Orbit-Bohlman (and 
once on Rapley trail which is a knee buster with nearly 30% grades) and 
it's just enough. 

On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 12:26:55 PM UTC-7 Drew Saunders wrote:

> Took the Riv up to the Mountain Winery in Saratoga, CA today (almost more 
> famous for the concerts and other events there than the wine). Even though 
> I've lived here for many years, this is only my 2nd time riding up these 
> hills. Most of the hills I usually ride around here are getting road 
> repairs from this past winter's really heavy storms, so I'm broadening my 
> route selection. 
> [image: Panasonic-LX5-P1040361-20230704.jpg][image: 
> Panasonic-LX5-P1040360-20230704.jpg][image: 
> Panasonic-LX5-P1040359-20230704.jpg]
> The new Swift Kestrel did a fine job holding the vest and arm warmers that 
> I really didn't need (I keep forgetting how much warmer it is just a little 
> south of where I live), plus the little Panasonic LX5 camera that was used 
> to take these photos.
>
> I'm also really liking my "one by with bailout" 26-42, 11-28 gearing. I 
> only used the front derailleur four times (two downshift, two upshift) for 
> the Mount Eden and Pierce roads, and mostly just stayed in the 42 for I'm 
> guessing about 90-95% of the ride, which is what I wanted with this 
> gearing. I used the whole cassette with the 42 'ring, and the 17 through 25 
> with the 26 chainring.
>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

[Piaw Na]

One consideration for credit-card touring is that with the long chainstays 
the bike will be harder to pack into a bike case for flying on an airline. 
That was the consideration that tipped me towards the Roadini over the A 
Homer Hilsen. 

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Re: [RBW] Clean AND Buttery Shifting?

[Piaw Na]

The differences for me usually come from type of shifter (downtube shifts 
faster than handlebar shifters), length of cable, how they're routed, 
lubrication, and age. Since what you have is all new, I'd suggest routing 
and length of cable. Post pictures and someone here might be able to tell 
you. And of course, there can be manufacturing defects in cable and housing.

On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 9:29:55 AM UTC-7 John Rinker wrote:

> Thank you Piaw. This sounds like a fine option for the future when cables 
> need replacing. Right now everything is pretty new and in great shape.
>
> I guess my question in this regard is more about why the shifting would be 
> different given that all the variables appear to be identical. I'd love to 
> replicate the way my Hunq shifts in my Atlantis, and so am curious as to 
> which variables I might be overlooking. 
>
> Cheers, John
>
> On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 8:16:05 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Consider the Shimano OT-SP41 coated shift cables: https://amzn.to/463eUM8
>>
>> I haven't needed them yet, but I did try the brake cable version and it's 
>> very impressive.
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 6:28:07 PM UTC-7 John Rinker wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Eliot. Yes, cable housings are filed and run in very smooth 
>>> curves with no bends. I'll try easing off on the binding. 
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 5:35:58 PM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Also, did you file your cut housing ends?

 On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 5:34 PM Eliot Balogh  
 wrote:

> Hey John,
>
> It’s a little hard to tell over the internet but based on your 
> description, a few thoughts come to mind. Are your cable runs clean with 
> easy bends ? Is your housing contaminated ? Can you ease off the binding 
> bolt on your shifter ?
>
> I have always avoided lubing my cables out of fear of attracting dirt. 
>
> Eliot 
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 3:15 PM John Rinker  wrote:
>
>> Both my Hunqapillar and Atlantis shift cleanly and, given the state 
>> of the rider on a given day, precisely. The Hunq has buttery shifting 
>> all 
>> across the rear cogs- easy, smooth, and...buttery! The Atlantis, 
>> however, 
>> is smooth but a little more resistant to change, and requires a little 
>> more 
>> force. 
>>
>> Both bikes have the same lengths of cable housing lined with a 
>> silicon spray and the cables are greased with Slick Honey. The Hunq 
>> sports 
>> Silver Shifters 1.0 and the Atlantis, Gran Compe. Both as bar ends.  
>> Aren't 
>> these were basically the same shifters?
>>
>> So, what gives?
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Clean AND Buttery Shifting?

[Piaw Na]

Consider the Shimano OT-SP41 coated shift cables: https://amzn.to/463eUM8

I haven't needed them yet, but I did try the brake cable version and it's 
very impressive.

On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 6:28:07 PM UTC-7 John Rinker wrote:

> Thanks, Eliot. Yes, cable housings are filed and run in very smooth curves 
> with no bends. I'll try easing off on the binding. 
>
> Cheers,
> John
>
> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 5:35:58 PM UTC-7 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Also, did you file your cut housing ends?
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 5:34 PM Eliot Balogh  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey John,
>>>
>>> It’s a little hard to tell over the internet but based on your 
>>> description, a few thoughts come to mind. Are your cable runs clean with 
>>> easy bends ? Is your housing contaminated ? Can you ease off the binding 
>>> bolt on your shifter ?
>>>
>>> I have always avoided lubing my cables out of fear of attracting dirt. 
>>>
>>> Eliot 
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2023 at 3:15 PM John Rinker  wrote:
>>>
 Both my Hunqapillar and Atlantis shift cleanly and, given the state of 
 the rider on a given day, precisely. The Hunq has buttery shifting all 
 across the rear cogs- easy, smooth, and...buttery! The Atlantis, however, 
 is smooth but a little more resistant to change, and requires a little 
 more 
 force. 

 Both bikes have the same lengths of cable housing lined with a silicon 
 spray and the cables are greased with Slick Honey. The Hunq sports Silver 
 Shifters 1.0 and the Atlantis, Gran Compe. Both as bar ends.  Aren't these 
 were basically the same shifters?

 So, what gives?

 Cheers, John

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 .

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Piaw Na]

A seized quill stem is one of the problems the aheadset style stem was 
designed to solve. In time, water, sweat, etc., goes down between the neck 
of the stem and the headset entryway and  causes galvanic corrosion. The 
preventive measure is to remove the stem once a year, regrease it, and put 
it back in, but of course if the bike's working and you don't need to mess 
with stem height it's very easy to forget (I haven't done it in years and I 
have to put a calendar entry for myself to remember to do it now that I do 
have a bike with a quill stem). You're supposed to do it with the seat post 
too.

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[RBW] Re: FS: 60cm Blue Rambouillet Complete - $1250

[Piaw Na]

It's a really special bike and a relic of the Toyo days, but I really need 
a 58, not a 60.


I'm 5' 10" with a PBH of 86 and Will/Grant sized me down to a 54cm Roadini. 
It was a good choice! 

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[RBW] Re: ISO Better Bar-End Friction Shifting!

[Piaw Na]

If the chain is coming off the crank, my experience is (1) you need a 
narrow-wide chainring -- if you don't have one, you need to get one. (2) 
the rear derailleur might not have a clutch. (3) you might have excessive 
chain length. Too much chain and your 1x setup will be prone to derailling.

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 10:32:44 AM UTC-7 Caroline Golum wrote:

> Currently running 1x10 and friction bar-end shifting. The chain keeps 
> coming off my crank, not hitting the right gear in the rear, etc. I've had 
> the derailleur serviced, it's fine, etc. 
>
> Time to get a new shifter? Switch to indexed shifting? Switch to an 8/9spd 
> in the rear? The bar-end shifter is RBW's Shifter - Silver2 
> . 

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[RBW] Re: Shifters - UNO shifter

[Piaw Na]

11s MTB is the same spacing as 10s Road. You won't have any trouble. I've 
used it even on Duraace 7700 rear hubs from 2004!

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 8:08:17 AM UTC-7 Stephanie A. wrote:

> Thanks, all, and sorry for the light thread hijack. I'm planning on 
> installing the Deore M5100 11-51t cassette. Hopefully it works, but If I 
> end up needing to buy a new wheel that's still easier (and cheaper, since 
> parts for the spouse's bike have to be strong--6' 3" and 300+ lbs) than 
> converting to a 2x. 
>
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 8:06:17 PM UTC-4 abraham nussbaum wrote:
>
>> I'm definitely UNO-curious.
>>
>> In the meantime, I've been running the Microshift 11 speed for over a 
>> year, in both friction and index mode. It's awesome. I run a 1 x 11 and 
>> it's been flawless after you dial in the fit bolt.
>>
>> On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 5:43:41 PM UTC-6 Stephanie A. wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking forward to reading how you like it. The spouse wants more 
>>> gears and the fastest way to do it is to get him a 10- or 11-speed cassette 
>>> and a friction shifter since his Breezer Downtown EX came as a 1x8.
>>> On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 6:12:15 PM UTC-4 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Hey Max,

 I saw the video where Russ announced this, and was also curious as I've 
 got an 11sp Cassette in my parts bin with no current home. 

 I do think you need an 11sp chain, as the chain width and cassette 
 spacing work most natively together. You may be able to get away with a 
 10sp chain depending on the company, so if you've got one it could be 
 worth 
 a try. 

 Primary difference between the Microshift and the Uno is the ratchet. 
 I've got the microshift 11sp shifter on my gevanalle brifters and it works 
 fine in index but the friction setting is a little frustrating without the 
 ratchet. That paired with the fact that the Uno looks classy makes me feel 
 like you still made the right call... especially for a Riv.

 Hope that's helpful!

 - Drew

 On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 2:51:40 PM UTC-4 maxcr wrote:

> Has anyone tried the UNO? 
>
> If you don't know what I'm talking about check out this video from 
> Russ at The Path Less Pedaled. 
>  The shifter is a 
> collaboration between Soma, DiaCompe and Russ.  It's a friction shifter 
> that should take anything you throw at it including 11 or 12 speed, MTB 
> or 
> Road drivetrains. 
>
> I got to it because I'm considering a 1x set up on one of my bikes and 
> I want maximum flexibility and compatibility to allow me to use a clutch 
> and a SRAM RD if I choose to.
>
> Also, I've been fighting a CX-70 FD paired with White Industries 2x9 
> setup on my Hunqapillar. No matter how much I adjust it or how much I 
> trim, 
> certain combinations (of the ones I actually use) always have some rub. 
> I'm 
> still trying to get my hands on an IRD Sub-C FD which might allow me to 
> keep the current setup (I love the gearing I have with 42/24 chainrings 
> and 
> a 11-40 cassette) but I might want to switch things up.
>
> Long story short I bit the bullet and got an UNO. It feels really 
> solid and the ratchet sounds great. Also take a look, the thing is 
> massive 
> compared to a Silver2:
>
> [image: IMG_0495.jpeg]
>
> For my 1x I'm considering using a Shimano SLX M7000 11 Speed 11-40 
> cassette that I already have in my parts box. And I'll probably pair that 
> with a SRAM GX 10-Speed RD.
>
> The question for the group is: do I need to use an 11 speed chain 
> given the 11 speed cassette?
>
> Oh, and now I'm wondering, is the UNO just a fancy version of this 
> Microshift shifter 
>  
> which 
> I hadn't seen but just found on Crust's website?
>
> Cheers,
> Max in rainy Boston
>
> PS. They are available here from Soma 
> 
>  for 
> a pretty penny if you want to get one.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Leo Roadini, Mustachioed & More

[Piaw Na]

Thanks so much for the link to the Tumblr page for the 2017 version of the 
Roadini. Sorta jibes with what Ed told me. He said I might be able to get 
35mm in there with the sidepulls. But I guess that text from Grant was 
presuming use of their complete stock build's mid-reach sidepulls? Because 
Ed said he fitted 38mm tires (Panaracer Pasela PT) into this 2017 frame, 
when he had DC-610 calipers in there. He also seemed to feel like there is 
room in the frame for more than 38mm with centerpulls and I read in your 
1000 mile review that you got 40mm in yours. I don't know if I'm 
reading/guessing wrong but it seems that the Roadini's frame clearance 
hasn't changed, but the stock complete brake spec has.


I suspect the brake bridge got moved in the later model of frames. In any 
case, the mid-reach Shimano brakes have very good clearance. Check out the 
pictures here: https://blackmtncycles.com/clearance-pt-ii-road-frames/. 
While centerpulls have even better clearance, I don't think 3mm is worth 
spending the money on.
 

What I had in mind when I was thinking of some platonic "ideal" is living 
amidst country gravel roads, and maybe with more gentle rolling terrain. 
Not dogging on what we have here. I've appreciated reading your blog 
entries and I've been working back up to the fitness to explore and ride 
routes and spots you're describing. A Montebello variant is way up the 
list. Frankly, I'm also working my way out of paranoia after giving up 
extended road riding when I became a father.


I would not hesitate the Roadini up Fremont Old OSP with 35mm tires. 
Almaden Quick Silver county park and Redwood Regional Preserve also have 
good gravel that are not too steep. I remember riding those with my kids 
and not having to deploy the tow rope much. I need to get around to riding 
Planet of the Apes.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Let’s say I made my Clem into a “gravel bike”

[Piaw Na]

I'm curious now. Is goose poop worse than horse poop?

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 1:30:58 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 9:10:11 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
> I find a use for them nearly every ride - there is always some puddle or a 
> bunch of goose poop that makes me thank my lucky stars for fenders. 
>
>
> LOL, yeah, we've had no rain for a month here and the goose poop at the 
> lakefront is epic right now. +1 for fenders.
>
> That said, I have yet to find any goose poop on a gravel road. Our 
> Wisconsin network of crushed limestone rail-trails, on the other hand, can 
> be full of stuff you don't want spraying on your legs and back. Last year I 
> did a 300km loop around SE Wisconsin, 111km of which was on trails. It 
> didn't rain on us, but it had rained the day before, and some of the trails 
> were still pretty damp. I was very happy to have fenders, even though there 
> was a fair amount of sand rattling around in them. The guy riding behind me 
> was sure glad I had them.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA 
>

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[RBW] Re: Leo Roadini, Mustachioed & More

[Piaw Na]

OK, I found the specs for the 2017 
Roadini: 
https://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/173252562647/note-this-unearthed-blug-was-supposed-to-appear#:~:text=The%20same%20tire%20clearances%20%E2%80%94up,more%20stable%2C%20but%20still%20zippy.

35mm without fenders, 28mm with.

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:54:22 AM UTC-7 Piaw Na wrote:

> As for max'ing out tires, Piaw is running 38s on his Roadini: 
> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/77-YZzm-Edk/m/rbDytYzDAAAJ
>
>
> My Roadini is from 2022, not 2017. Grant's been increasing the brake reach 
> and the 2022 no longer uses mid-reach caliper brakes.
>

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[RBW] Re: Leo Roadini, Mustachioed & More

[Piaw Na]

As for max'ing out tires, Piaw is running 38s on his Roadini: 
https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/77-YZzm-Edk/m/rbDytYzDAAAJ


My Roadini is from 2022, not 2017. Grant's been increasing the brake reach 
and the 2022 no longer uses mid-reach caliper brakes.

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[RBW] Re: Leo Roadini, Mustachioed & More

[Piaw Na]

If the bike came with mid-reach Shimano brakes you're unlikely to get 
anything wider than 38mm in clearance no matter what brakes you run.  It's 
also unlikely that centerpull calipers will provide appreciably more 
stopping power than the Shimano dual pivot calipers which already have 
plenty of stopping power, though you might get more a little more tire 
clearance.

It's hilarious that you think the South Bay isn't ideal country for 
hillibike riding --- there are lots of combination rides that minimize 
climbing off pavement --- for instance, you could climb Montebello road and 
descend Stevens Canyon fire trail. Or climb Highway 9 and use all the dirt 
connectors from Saratoga gap to Russian Ridge OSP and descend Crazy Pete's 
and Dirt Alpine (or Stevens Canyon).  I wouldn't hesitate to take my 
Roadini to El Corte Madera Creek preserve either --- a little bit of 
walking never killed anyone. I've ridden all over the world and for 
year-round day riding it's really difficult to beat the Bay Area or even 
come close.

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[RBW] Re: Let’s say I made my Clem into a “gravel bike”

[Piaw Na]

I'm not going to provide specific tire recommendations, but I ride "gravel" 
and single-track quiet a bit on my Roadini. I still remember that time in 
the 1990s when I was riding with Bridgestone-sponsored cyclist Eric House, 
and we all showed up in the East Bay proud of ourselves for riding road 
bikes on a Grant ride. Grant showed up on a fixie with 35mm tires and 
proceeded to outride us all on and off road. 

A few principles:

   - The lighter the rider, the smaller the tire you can get away with. At 
   140 pounds, I can ride fire roads with 25mm tires (or even 23, back when 
   Michelin 23s were $10/pop!)
   - Tread or no tread doesn't matter as much as rider skill and speed.
   - Rider skill cannot be disentangled from bike fit. If the bike doesn't 
   fit, you will find stuff scary that you can actually ride if the bike fit. 
   I once accidentally raised my seat too high and discovered that stuff I 
   could easily ride suddenly became hard!
   - The longer the ride and the steeper the climb, the more important 
   weight becomes. I can ride big heavy tires if I'm only going to go downhill 
   because a car did most of the work. But if I have to do a lot of climbing 
   (some of which turns into hiking inevitably if you ride in mountainous 
   areas), the lighter the bike the better off you are.
   - You can drop tire pressure far more than most tire pressure 
   calculators will tell you to. I can run 700x40 tires measuring 38mm at 
   25psi (the Rene Herse calculator will recommend 33psi) when I'm riding off 
   pavement. On the pavement that same pressure will feel inefficient. I go so 
   far as to carry a pressure gauge to drop tire pressure at the trail head 
   and pump up the tires when I transition off a dirt descent onto pavement 
   for the ride home.
   - Bigger tires affect handling - one reason I don't ride with as big a 
   tire as I can get away with is that you lose some agility. Frequently I 
   find that being able to steer precisely and quickly offsets the inability 
   to plow through some obstacle head on.

What I do notice is that most people don't like to underbike. They will 
make comments that I won't be able to do a ride on my 25mm tires and then 
be all surprised when I show up and do the ride. But when I'm touring I'm 
not going to bring 3 different bikes, so I just push the limits and go 
slower and occasionally depend on pulling a spare tire out of my saddle bag 
if a tire were to shred during a tour (which can happen even if you're not 
riding off pavement).

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Phil cassette hub+wheel, tandem/145mm (HubbuHubbuH)

[Piaw Na]

I don't know how to identify them. You could probably call up Phil Wood and 
ask based on your date of purchase. Since they don't make 3 pawl ones any 
more that's probably a clear demarcation. (My Phils are almost 20 years old)

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 9:59:22 AM UTC-7 jbu...@gmail.com wrote:

> Bumping this, and price drop -
>
> $150 shipped for a nice Phil cassette / tandem hub, or the whole (559)
> wheel with shipping on you.
>
> Piaw: I have no idea if it's 3 or 4 pawl. Is there an indication of
> which it could be? Hub is in good condition (AFAIK).
>
> =- Joe Bunik
> Walnut Creek, CA
>
> On 5/25/23, Piaw Na  wrote:
> > Are these the 3 pawl or 4 pawl versions? We broke one of the 3 pawl
> > versions and Phil Wood refused to warranty it because they didn't have 
> any
> > 3 pawl versions left. We were stuck with a $200 bill to "upgrade" to the 
> 4
> > pawl version.
> >
> > On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-7 jbu...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> Hello Riv Duos
> >>
> >> https://photos.app.goo.gl/s46aN28MZNTMnq7M6
> >>
> >> Passing along a nice wheel/hub combo I opted into for a rough-stuff
> >> bike project, but plans have since shifted - this is a Phil cassette
> >> hub for use with a 145mm OLN tandem (w/ NDS threading for drum or
> >> adapters). Re-spacing is possible but would require axle replacement
> >> from Phil.
> >>
> >> Laced up to a 559 / 36h Sun Rhynolite rim, I'm willing to de-lace and
> >> cover the shipping on just the hub for $200 (alternatively, $200+CONUS
> >> shipping your side for the entire wheel / OBO - let's talk!)
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> =- Joe Bunik
> >> Walnut Creek, CA
> >>
> >
> > --
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> > 
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> .
> >
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Phil cassette hub+wheel, tandem/145mm (HubbuHubbuH)

[Piaw Na]

Are these the 3 pawl or 4 pawl versions? We broke one of the 3 pawl 
versions and Phil Wood refused to warranty it because they didn't have any 
3 pawl versions left. We were stuck with a $200 bill to "upgrade" to the 4 
pawl version.

On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-7 jbu...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello Riv Duos
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/s46aN28MZNTMnq7M6
>
> Passing along a nice wheel/hub combo I opted into for a rough-stuff
> bike project, but plans have since shifted - this is a Phil cassette
> hub for use with a 145mm OLN tandem (w/ NDS threading for drum or
> adapters). Re-spacing is possible but would require axle replacement
> from Phil.
>
> Laced up to a 559 / 36h Sun Rhynolite rim, I'm willing to de-lace and
> cover the shipping on just the hub for $200 (alternatively, $200+CONUS
> shipping your side for the entire wheel / OBO - let's talk!)
>
> Thanks
> =- Joe Bunik
> Walnut Creek, CA
>

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Re: [RBW] Underbiking

[Piaw Na]

On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 12:40:30 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

What size are the tires on the Roadini? I seem to recall reading that that 
frame can take 42s?


I'm using Continental Terraspeed 40s, which actually measure 38. There's 
more room, but I didn't want to run at the absolute limit --- I would run a 
true 40mm but not a 42. 

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[RBW] Re: Underbiking

[Piaw Na]

Those bars look shallow from the side but don't look so shallow front the 
side/front. Now I'm curious --- doesn't the flare in those drops make it 
harder to use the hoods as a riding position? 

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 6:48:49 PM UTC-7 DavidP wrote:

> Yep, I have a drop-bar MTB that I usually run with 29x2.25 tires. In the 
> winter it gets a 2.8 front and 2.4 rear and with that setup it's more of a 
> basher / rock crawler and feels much slower.
>
> [image: Jones-2022-10-18.jpg]
>
> This is a Jones which is designed for use with a somewhat swept back bar, 
> but this older model has a shorter top tube that works with a drop bar. 
> I've found the handling with a drop bar to be amazing, and the bike does 
> pretty well on pavement while being more capable off-road than something 
> like my Soma Wolverine with 650x48s or my Platypus with 29x2" tires (but 
> it's no where near as nice looking as the Platy).
>
> As far as underbiking goes, I like to see what I can get away with on most 
> of my bikes and to appropriate and paraphrase, "if you're skilled and have 
> good judgement and [relatively fat-ish tires], you can ride [any bike] 
> where you shouldn't". Sometimes I end up on a trail that requires a bunch 
> of hike-a-bike.
>
> [image: wolverine-trails.jpg]
>
> -Dave
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 8:55:59 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> " ...maybe some day the wheel will turn and drop bars off road will come 
>> back into fashion 
>>
>> Piaw, it's already happening. See: Tumbleweed, Salsa, Kona, Bearclaw, and 
>> the list goes on. 
>> I personally prefer a sweptback bar for the rough stuff so I can shift my 
>> weight rearward. taking some of the load off the front wheel while 
>> maintaining comfortable control of the brake levers - but I 'm an old fart. 
>> Drop bar MTBs/ATBs are definitely a thing though - I've been seeing more 
>> and more of them on my local dirt rides. It's all good!
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 8:33:40 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> This Saturday I took my Roadini and went up Spring Ridge Road (Windy 
>>> Hill OSP) and descended Crazy Pete's (Coal Creak OSP). 
>>> https://www.strava.com/activities/9109425331
>>>
>>> I had one of those amazing days where I was "on". I set PRs down Crazy 
>>> Pete's (the last time I did it I was on a MTB with front suspension). The 
>>> Roadini's 6-8 pounds lighter than my MTB, and without suspension, I felt 
>>> like I could place my bike on precisely whatever lines I wanted, so much so 
>>> that when I went at full speed, my friend on her dual suspension CF MTB (a 
>>> Juliana Furtado) couldn't keep up downhill.
>>>
>>> I think the drop bars on my Roadini are partly responsible --- the low 
>>> position feels natural, and the modulation on the Tektro 559s are nothing 
>>> short of amazing. I remembered that one of Bridgestone's mountain bikes 
>>> back in the 1980s came with drop bars. I dug around and found this article 
>>> about "dirt drop" bars: 
>>> https://g-tedproductions.blogspot.com/2008/10/drop-bar-for-mountain-biking-part-i.html
>>>
>>> I guess since cycling is so driven by fashion, maybe some day the wheel 
>>> will turn and drop bars off road will come back into fashion. My experience 
>>> made me wonder if you designed the frame so that those brake pads are at 
>>> the bottom of the slots on the Tektro 559s, how big a tire can you fit? I 
>>> found this video on youtube where someone managed to squeeze a 2" tire on 
>>> those: https://youtu.be/vGnNkQJz-Fk?t=389
>>>
>>> Those of you with AHH or Roadinis, have you tried taking your bikes down 
>>> rocky/rooty single track? Taking a MTB down those feels like driving a 
>>> jeep, but riding the Roadini down one feels like you're a sushi chef 
>>> carving fish with precision --- a completely different feeling.
>>>
>>> Piaw
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Underbiking

[Piaw Na]

This Saturday I took my Roadini and went up Spring Ridge Road (Windy Hill 
OSP) and descended Crazy Pete's (Coal Creak 
OSP). https://www.strava.com/activities/9109425331

I had one of those amazing days where I was "on". I set PRs down Crazy 
Pete's (the last time I did it I was on a MTB with front suspension). The 
Roadini's 6-8 pounds lighter than my MTB, and without suspension, I felt 
like I could place my bike on precisely whatever lines I wanted, so much so 
that when I went at full speed, my friend on her dual suspension CF MTB (a 
Juliana Furtado) couldn't keep up downhill.

I think the drop bars on my Roadini are partly responsible --- the low 
position feels natural, and the modulation on the Tektro 559s are nothing 
short of amazing. I remembered that one of Bridgestone's mountain bikes 
back in the 1980s came with drop bars. I dug around and found this article 
about "dirt drop" 
bars: 
https://g-tedproductions.blogspot.com/2008/10/drop-bar-for-mountain-biking-part-i.html

I guess since cycling is so driven by fashion, maybe some day the wheel 
will turn and drop bars off road will come back into fashion. My experience 
made me wonder if you designed the frame so that those brake pads are at 
the bottom of the slots on the Tektro 559s, how big a tire can you fit? I 
found this video on youtube where someone managed to squeeze a 2" tire on 
those: https://youtu.be/vGnNkQJz-Fk?t=389

Those of you with AHH or Roadinis, have you tried taking your bikes down 
rocky/rooty single track? Taking a MTB down those feels like driving a 
jeep, but riding the Roadini down one feels like you're a sushi chef 
carving fish with precision --- a completely different feeling.

Piaw

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting in over my head

[Piaw Na]

According to 
Rivendell Reader Index - The smell of cold 
http://notfine.com/rivreader/RR-index.pdf it was rivendell reader #11
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 9:58:59 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I've been home-building cassettes for 20 years at least after I got 
> sufficiently frustrated with stock combinations; in friction (and even 
> indexed) they have shifted fine. I agree about 11 sp chains; at least, I'm 
> using an 11 on my (custom, built with Miche cogs) 10 sp cassette and I've 
> never had better shifting. Have read many places that 10 sp chains ar 
> longer lasting than 9, 11 than 10. Perhaps will try making an 11 sp 
> cassette with my 10 sp Miche cogs by substituting 11 sp spacers for the 10 
> sp ones and will try a 12 sp chain.
>
> It's really wonderful how well Barcons (and 8 sp era rd) work with 10 sp 
> cogs and an 11 sp chain; every time I ride the bike in question I'm 
> delighted. Much better, IMO, than friction 7 and 9 speed even with fully 
> stock cassettes and chains.
>
> Do you have a link to or PDF of your halfstep article? Or -- since there 
> are RR archives -- a publication # or date? I'm tempted to set up a half 
> step drivetrain on a bike with disk brakes just because ... (already have 
> another bike with non-aero levers and disk brakes).
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 8:29 AM Piaw Na  wrote:
>
>> I wrote an early article for the Rivendell Reader about half-step and 
>> granny. I works great with 7 speed freewheels where you can pick the 
>> sprockets. But after cassettes were introduced you couldn't pick individual 
>> sprockets any more so it became impractical. At that point I switched over 
>> to crossover + granny, especially when 11-34 cassettes were introduced. 
>> Despite Grant's assertions, the new 11s cassettes and chains seem to be 
>> quite reliable --- the 11s chain definitely lasts longer than the 9s chain 
>> (about 30% longer), and the 11s cassettes on a friction shifter actually 
>> shift better --- there's less chance that you'll get stuck in between 
>> sprockets when you shift and have to trim. 
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/16991079-f9b3-4fbb-a510-7563d65396e6n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/16991079-f9b3-4fbb-a510-7563d65396e6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting in over my head

[Piaw Na]

I used a hybrid 2X crossover/half stepped 7 sp (half-stepped the middle 5, 
13 outer with 48/92" for downhills, 32 inner with 45/35" for climbing) for 
a while that worked very well (Kelly Take-Offs were the perfect shifter), 
but there was a big jump to the 35" low gear. Riv content: 1995 Riv custom 
downgraded to daily commuting duty.


I wrote an early article for the Rivendell Reader about half-step and 
granny. I works great with 7 speed freewheels where you can pick the 
sprockets. But after cassettes were introduced you couldn't pick individual 
sprockets any more so it became impractical. At that point I switched over 
to crossover + granny, especially when 11-34 cassettes were introduced. 
Despite Grant's assertions, the new 11s cassettes and chains seem to be 
quite reliable --- the 11s chain definitely lasts longer than the 9s chain 
(about 30% longer), and the 11s cassettes on a friction shifter actually 
shift better --- there's less chance that you'll get stuck in between 
sprockets when you shift and have to trim. 

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Re: [RBW] Roadini 1000 mile review

[Piaw Na]

I got out my calipers --- the top tube, head tube, and seat tubes are 29mm 
(most likely 28.6), and the downtube is 31.5mm (most likely 31.8). It 
doesn't feel stiff to me, but since I broke 2 ti frames, my guess is each 
time I broke one my custom builder proceeded to build me bikes with 
thicker/heavier tubing, so it's quite possible that my ti touring bike is 
so stiff that OS tubing feels right. The seatpost is 26.8mm, so that means 
the tube is 1.2mm thick at the ends and thinner in the middle. Since the 
tubes used by Rivendell aren't disclosed, you'd have to ride it to see how 
stiff you think it is. I don't have a 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 to compare, but 
when I rode that one I wasn't nearly as strong or as abusive to bicycles as 
I am now. I was considerably lighter (113 pounds), and wasn't taking my 
road bikes off pavement, jumping ditches, etc. (That RB-1 died when a Volvo 
hit me)

Looking at this 
page: 
https://www.veloduo.co.uk/blogs/news/steel-frame-tubing-fact-and-mythology, 
the typical steel frame seat tube has an outside diameter of 28.6 (which is 
pretty much what I measured). I know Grant is conservative about tubing 
(which is why I'm so confident about riding the Roadini off pavement), so a 
wall thickness of 1.2mm (being 0.4mm thicker than the 531 standard) 
wouldn't surprise me.
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 4:01:04 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I’m 6’3”, 180 pounds, and briefly had a 61cm Roadini. It has some weird 
> tapering to the tubes, but I think it was basically double OS on that size. 
> Maybe 28.6 tapering to 31.8 or something. It felt stiff and not 
> particularly responsive to me. It’s not like an old vintage road bike with 
> a 25.4mm top tube. 
>
> My ‘84 Trek rides better, but doesn’t have the tire clearance or long 
> wheelbase of the Roadini. 
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Friday, May 19, 2023, John Bokman  wrote:
>
>> Piaw, thanks for the comments and pictures! Looks like you're having 
>> loads of fun.
>>
>> I would likely be running  downtube shifters and a 2x with a long cage 
>> derailieur to get my low gears. You must be running, what,  an 11x50? I'm 
>> sorry for the redundant question if it's listed on the website,  but are 
>> these oversized tubes? They look to be 28.6cm at least? Yet you still feel 
>> it is a compliant frame? (No judgement, just trying to decipher.)
>>
>> On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 5:35:17 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Here are some pictures of my Roadini: 
>>> https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/XO7eDWt_RaCyVFynaZsftA.vhwY43mas9VqIf5gM0Swqo
>>>
>>> The bike as pictured weighs 24 pounds. It was 21 pounds with no toolbag 
>>> and lighter wheels and 30mm tires. It's possible to get lighter steel (or 
>>> titanium) bikes, but then the costs go up dramatically as you're likely to 
>>> have to go custom with correspondingly high wait times.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 5:26 PM John Bokman  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for the review! As a daily drop-bar Sam rider, I'm well 
 accustomed to the Rivendell ride. It's been a great bike for my uses: 
 commuting, heavy loading. But, as a light (155# @ 6 foot tall), spinner,  
 I 
 wish for a bike that is lighter, less stiff, and more flexible to ride 
 when 
 I want to charge hills and generally explore at speed on day rides. I am 
 interested in this frame for these reasons. But I hesitate because I'm not 
 sure of the tubing specs. I don't want it to be too much bike for me! Sam 
 is less than ideal on the rides I imagine doing on the Roadini.

 I'd love to see some photos of your machine if you have any available.

 John
 Portland, OR

 On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 10:04:16 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Max tire width according to Rivendell is 42mm. I don't like to push it 
> that close, so I think in practice I won't run anything more than 38mm 
> actual width. I have no TCO on the Roadini. The TCO exists on my custom 
> touring bike, which has a geometry copied from the 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 
> with a longer chainstay and lower BB.
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 9:55 AM Ian A  wrote:
>
>> Piaw,
>>
>> Thank you for your review. You mention fitting nominally 40mm wide 
>> tires and I would be curious to know what the maximum tire widths with 
>> and 
>> without fenders are? 
>>
>> Your review in the final paragraph draws reference to toe-clip 
>> overlap (TCO) and I was wondering if you could expand on that. Do you 
>> experience TCO on the Roadini?  I wasn't quite sure if you were 
>> referencing 
>> the Roadini or an idea for a custom in this snippet of the review "  It 
>> gets rid of the toe clip overlap (which doesn't bother me but now that I 
>> know how to solve it without making a bike handle badly".
>>
>> IanA Alberta Canada
>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 9:54:06 AM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I

Re: [RBW] Re: Getting in over my head

[Piaw Na]

It’s good to hear that people like their 1x - Grant talked about it in his 
blog and he didn’t have the praise for it I was expecting.


He's never tried 1x with an 11s friction shifter. :-) 

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[RBW] Re: ISO tiny older Riv (47ish) non-step thru

[Piaw Na]

The geometry diagram for the 47 
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/ROADINI-470-Geo.jpg?7649874663519573416x)
 
shows a 38mm tire, with 55mm between the chainstays.  It probably will take 
42mm tires but not more. You can count on 38mm at the very least. With 
caliper brakes I wouldn't push the limits if you intend to ride in muddy 
conditions or have fenders.

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 5:37:57 AM UTC-7 Sean Steinle wrote:

> Wow I didn't even think to look at the modern Roadini, thanks for the 
> heads up! I'm going to reach out for max tire size as it's not listed for 
> the 47. 
>
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 6:58:06 AM UTC-5 Elisabeth Sherwood wrote:
>
>> Hi Sean,
>>
>> While it's not as lugged-out as the older frames, we noticed a bit back 
>> that the new/current Roadini 47cm frame has the exact same geometry as the 
>> original 47cm Saluki.  That may be your best bet!
>>
>> Liz S.
>> Washington, DC 
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 9:09:29 PM UTC-4 Sean Steinle wrote:
>>
>>> Looking for a tiny older Riv for my 5'2" wife, with decent tire 
>>> clearance. Thinking Saluki, Homer, Atlantis, maybe others, Bleriot, San 
>>> Marcos, etc? 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sean
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Roadini 1000 mile review

[Piaw Na]

I've now ridden my Roadini for 1000 miles, and I wrote my 
review: https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html

I think I'm agreeing with the folks who say that gravel bikes are simply 
1990s style mountain bikes with 700c wheels and 1x drivetrains.

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[RBW] Re: Wanting to try an AHH 47.5 or 51 in Boston

[Piaw Na]

Also depends on what handlebars you're planning to use. Drop bars - go for 
the smaller frame. Upright bars - go for the bigger frame. There's nothing 
about the AHH that would preclude bikepacking or bicycle touring! I would 
happily ride my Roadini on a tour and I now treat it like a 1990s mountain 
bike since I've got 38mm tires on it.

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 3:12:24 PM UTC-7 zem...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'd follow Riv's sizing guidelines, bearing in mind that they plan for a 
> decent amount of crotch clearance. So if you're on the edge and would 
> prefer a taller head tube, size up, and if you're wanting a shorter reach, 
> size down. I think a lot of this depends on what kind of handlebar you're 
> planning on and your desired riding position. 
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 10:11:06 AM UTC-4 Stephanie A. wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone! As I continue (spending probably way too much money and 
>> time) altering my pandemic bike (which looks splendid but is probably a 
>> size too small and, gasp, aluminum), I've been scoping out which Riv I 
>> might buy in the future. I'm between an AHH and a Platy, heavily leaning 
>> toward the AHH to have a zippier feeling bike and a diamond frame. As much 
>> as I love seeing people touring and bike packing, I'm not sure that I'll 
>> ever do more than commute, lug sometimes heavy CSA shares or work stuff, 
>> and ride on pavement or packed dirt. The AHH seems to give me the 
>> flexibility to go at least a little beyond that if I want to.
>>
>> What I'm most unsure of is sizing. My PBH is right on the line at around 
>> 80cm. I want to avoid buying an expensive non-returnable new or used bike 
>> and feeling like I should have gotten a different size--or different model.
>>
>> To that end, does anyone in the Boston area have an AHH in 47.5 or 51 
>> that they'd be willing to let me stand over in the Common?
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> Stephanie, who is really hoping that the more common size of 51 will fit 
>> so that her chances of eventually getting a gold AHH are moderately higher 
>> than if only the 47.5 fits
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Getting in over my head

[Piaw Na]

I just realized that I forgot to mention the easiest way to keep up: I 
converted my wife's Cheviot into an 
ebike. https://blog.piaw.net/2020/12/installation-review-swytch-e-bike.html

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:01:26 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 8:13:53 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
>
> Have you ever gotten in over your head?
>
>
> Well, Leah, if you'd really been in over your head you'd have drowned :-) 
>  Sounds to me like, even though it was a harder effort you are used to, you 
> performed quite well. That's a good testament to the fitness you've 
> developed over the last few years.
>
> As for the "would a different bike help" part of the thread ... as others 
> have said, it's a lot more about position than it is about the bike, per 
> se. Of course, the bike dictates, to some extent, the position. Position 
> does a few things ... one, as mentioned, is aerodynamics, reducing 
> coefficient of drag, which becomes exponentially important as speed 
> increases, but much less so if you're tucked into a group (until you're at 
> the front!); another is that a forward-lean recruits more/different muscle 
> groups to keep the pedals spinning at higher effort; and a third is that 
> climbing out of the saddle requires enough distance to the handlebars to 
> get over the pedals when the bike is on a steep upslope.  That said, my 
> experience has been that my Cheviot was hands-down the slowest bike I've 
> owned, regardless of position. I have no idea why. Also, there is one part 
> of the bike where you can buy speed, and that's the tires. Though, it looks 
> like your Platy is on Ultradynamicos, so you might be good there. I 
> guarantee you a few pounds of bike weight won't make any difference.  
>
> My recommendation, fwiw, if you are thinking about a "road bike" would be 
> to not go straight to something like a Roadeo or Roadini, as that would be 
> a big change and take quite a bit of time to adjust. I have a Riv Road 
> custom with a Campy group on it, but I would not hesitate to ride my Sam 
> Hillborne on a fast group ride. The position on it is half way between your 
> current Platy and a "road bike", and I think would be an easier transition.
>
> One more thing ... riding in a group requires specific skills, awareness, 
> and communication. From your previous posts it sounds like you've developed 
> those pretty well. But the stakes get higher as the speeds get higher and, 
> as you noticed, the tolerances get tighter. Fast rides mean staying a few 
> inches off the wheel in front of you and that means very little reaction 
> time when stuff happens. I like your approach of getting to the front as 
> hills approach, and the fact that you can ride off the front like that 
> speaks volumes about how strong you are. However, it can be really 
> disruptive for a group to have a gap open and then close. So, my suggestion 
> is to not worry about getting any distance on the group, but definitely try 
> to get to the front at the start of a climb. In a good group, there's 
> always a nice, smooth rotation, one line moving up, one line moving back, 
> so it's easy to get to the front at the start of a climb and slowly drop 
> back as you go up. Just be aware that, for a lot of fast group rides, LOTS 
> of people are going to be jockeying for that position cuz they are badass 
> and need to show it. In the ride you described, it sounds like a small 
> group and that wasn't the case. It would have been totally appropriate to 
> talk to the others about how you like to rotate on the hills. It's really 
> important for the group to agree on which side is moving up and which side 
> is dropping back. In general, going up hills (in places where we ride on 
> the right hand side of the road) the slower people should be on the right 
> and the faster on the left. 
>
> Oh, and yeah, I've gone over my head. My last boss before I retired was a 
> serious triathlete and I rode with him a fair amount. One of our last rides 
> he said he wanted to do 5 hours at an easy pace. I brought food and drink, 
> accordingly. He was averaging 20+ and I was near my aerobic threshold most 
> of the time. Definitely did not have the right food for that sort of ride, 
> and I paid for it dearly.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>

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[RBW] Re: Getting in over my head

[Piaw Na]

I once rode the Cheviot with the bike club when my wife and kids refused to 
keep riding after the lunch stop. I was surprised that I was fast enough to 
keep up with the fast riders. If you want to go fast, there are a few 
things that the Cheviot does that makes it harder: 

   1. If you're not using drop bars, the air resistance on the flats makes 
   it quite a bit more effort at anything about 13mph. You can tuck but the 
   position isn't as comfortable.
   2. The Cheviot/Platypus aren't great for standing up on climbs. The bike 
   really wants you to sit and spin. That means you have to have gears 
   suitable for doing so. 
   3. Clipless pedals make a big difference for sitting and spinning on 
   climbs.
   4. The Cheviot was heavier than other bikes, but those extra pounds 
   mattered surprisingly little.

Having said all that I definitely still prefer the Roadini with drop bars 
for going fast and hard. Being able tuck definitely lets you go fast 
downhill without pedaling!

On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 6:47:59 AM UTC-7 DavidP wrote:

> Leah, I'm impressed by how you have found ways to make the Platypus work 
> on fast group rides - even if it is a bit more work. Your observation about 
> momentum is apt and the way you've adjusted to maintain it is great.
>
> Julian's point about the riding position is valid and your Billie bars 
> allow for a range of back angles by gripping the bar at different points so 
> you don't need to be an upright sail.  If you are not currently using 
> multiple hand positions on your bars that's a good place to start.  As 
> you've seen, there's a point on downhills where staying upright and 
> pedaling is slower than tucking in and coasting. 
>
> I have roadish bikes with Albatross bars and find griping the bar ahead of 
> the brake lever to be similar to riding on the hoods of a drop bar, while 
> gripping further into the bends/hooks and bending my elbows a bit more gets 
> me to a position similar to riding in the drops. Like Laing said you can 
> also try narrowing your grip even more toward the stem and bending even 
> lower for an actual aero tuck. You'll need to be cautious about how close 
> you are to other riders as your hands will be away from the brakes, but 
> this is no different from an aero tuck on a drop bar (where the hands are 
> moved in close to the stem).
>
> It's also very easy to adjust your stem height to try a slightly lower bar 
> position, but I would suggest becoming comfortable using the full range of 
> your handlebar positions to be worthwhile in any case.
>
> As to the difference between the Platypus and a lighter road bike - with 
> riding position accounted for above, it's mostly in acceleration. You 
> wouldn't need to worry as much about momentum because it'd be easier to get 
> back up to speed; but in any case momentum is a good thing and saves you 
> work.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 8:37:20 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>
>> The answer is yes, but not recently. The upcoming North Carolina Riv Ride 
>> will be a challenge - no hills to practice on in south Florida.
>>
>> Note that you can still do an aero tuck even on a flat bar Platypus - its 
>> is kind of awkward, your hands are sort of beside your shoulders, or you 
>> can put your hands near the stem under your chest, but it beats pedaling 
>> downhill. You might have to put your water bottle in a frame mounted cage 
>> though.
>>
>> You don't need a Roadini - a naked drop bar platypus would work just 
>> fine. Although a sparkly raspberry Rodeo...
>>
>> You can never have too many Rivendells.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 9:13:53 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I just want to talk bikes. I don’t have anything to post FS or WTB…I 
>>> just want to tell Riv people this dumb story that happened this morning. 
>>> You can laugh or you can roll your eyes, or you can chime in with your own 
>>> dumb story of getting in over your own dumb heads.
>>>
>>> This is my second season of club riding. I was new to it last year, and 
>>> now that our weather is finally cooperating, I’m back.
>>>
>>> Last week, our bike club started a new ride. It would be on Monday 
>>> mornings and only 5 miles from my house. The pace was to be 
>>> “conversational” which I took to mean ‘riding at a pace you can still have 
>>> a conversation at.’ (I now know that could not be what it meant.) The route 
>>> would be new. The details were fuzzy - word was, the ride leader would make 
>>> decisions about pace and miles once people arrived. Now, I know Platypuses 
>>> are not going to fare well in the 18-21 mph crowd, but I knew that two 
>>> women upwards of 70 did this ride last week. I figured I’d be fine.
>>>
>>> I was the second to arrive; the first being the president of our bike 
>>> club. He was pulling his gravel bike out of his truck. He’s a roadie and he 
>>> leads the 17-18 mph groups. Hmmm.  We’re friendly; I’m glad to know one 
>>> person on 

Re: [RBW] WTB 650b conversion parts for Riv Road Standard

[Piaw Na]

Low BBs ride better, especially on descents. Does your knee hit the feedbag 
on the bars when you switch between sitting and standing? I discovered mine 
does on my Roadini, and I now mount it on the other side of the bar. I 
guess judging from the bike setup it looks like you're far back enough that 
it might not be an isssue.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2023 at 8:40:52 AM UTC-7 EGNolan wrote:

> Thanks to all who helped with parts and thoughts, thought I'd give a li'l 
> update on the custom-leaning Rivendell Road bike...
>
>
> For reference, it fits 650b x 42 + fenders without any mods by using 
> Tektro 559's. The bb is pretty low, but hasn't been an issue for the first 
> few hundred miles :)
>
> I'll wrap the bars when I've committed to keeping drops, I always try to 
> like it, but without collecting a large quiver it's difficult me to venture 
> too far from uprights as I ride with a coffee in hand more often than I 
> ride a longer distance than 25 miles... 
>
>
> [image: IMG_5660.JPG]
>
> On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 4:18:08 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Custom is good. Whatever you have is working! 👍 (excellent color, too)
>>
>> On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 1:04:14 PM UTC-7 EGNolan wrote:
>>
>>> Joe,
>>> I was just going with what the original owner told me as far as Riv 
>>> Road, it may well be a custom. Luckily for me, I had a set of 559's AND a 
>>> 650b wheelset sitting on a Bleriot frame. I tested fit prior to putting my 
>>> requests out there. 42's fit with fenders, though I will dimple the 
>>> chainstays for additional peace of mind, and the 559's have plenty of reach 
>>> for this specific instance. 
>>>
>>> I feel that I am extremely lucky in that this (road, longlow, custom?) 
>>> bike works in ways others have not/do not. 
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 1:10:20 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>

 The Road Standard was the original Waterford model with short-reach 
 brakes, a Joe Starck is getting into custom territory. I could be wrong 
 but 
 your current brakes look like the Shimano mid-reachers that Riv later put 
 on Rambouillet and Romulus. If this is accurate you may not get the 
 results 
 you need with 559s, the reach for them works on 650B when replacing 
 short-reach for long. Going from mid-reach to way-longer-reach may put the 
 pads below the new rims. 
 On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 8:02:03 AM UTC-7 EGNolan wrote:

> Doug,
> The reasons I am saying it's a Road Standard vs. LongLow are no 
> guarantee, but the original purchaser/orderer of the frame said it was a 
> Road Standard, it has sidepulls (vs. cantilever on many LL's), chainstay 
> length seems to match RS's and it fits a 35, but w/ no room for fenders 
> and 
> doesn't fit 38's (might be doable if you don't like clearance at the 
> fork, 
> but not doable in the rear where a 38 rubs width-wise). Maybe there was a 
> bit of overlap in customization, I'm not sure, this was just JS's 14th 
> bike 
> for Riv... Happy to entertain this bike being anything, it rides 
> wonderfully, looks beautiful and has lots of life left for a well ridden 
> 25+ year old frame. I'm excited no matter the name!
>
> PS- I've found wheels & brakes and I appreciate everyone's interest in 
> helping out!
>
> Eric
>
> On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 9:43:26 PM UTC-4 Doug Van Cleve wrote:
>
>> Are you sure this isn’t a Long Low?  I have a ‘99 JS Road Std, also 
>> with short reach brakes (that probably maxes out between 32 and 35mm) 
>> and I 
>> don’t recall the Road Std having any other brake option…
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 2:03 PM Jim Bronson  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I also have a Joe Starck Road Standard from that era, but mine has 
>>> short reach brakes.  It barely fits a 700c 30mm under the brakes, I'm 
>>> surprised you got a 35 in there.  Yours must have been built with more 
>>> brake clearance than mine.   I also converted mine to 650B and have 
>>> ridden 
>>> it 10,000 kilometers of brevets that way and lots of other rides.  I'm 
>>> not 
>>> so sure you'll be able to fit a 42 in there though, the chainstay width 
>>> and 
>>> fork width is the limiting factor on my bike.  I'm pretty sure a 42mm 
>>> would 
>>> rub.  However, if you can make it work then more power to you.  I'm 
>>> happy 
>>> with my 38s and cream longboards I got from Rivendell.
>>>
>>> I want to also convert my Redwood, and I'm hoping it will fit 
>>> 650Bx48.  I do have the parts to do it, but you would not like the rims 
>>> I 
>>> have anyway, I'm 6'7" 300+ and I've destroyed too many lightweight rims 
>>> to 
>>> buy any more, it gets expensive.  600-650 grams is where I shoot for 
>>> now.  
>>> I've gotten good service from Velocity Atlas 650B, to n

[RBW] Deer-bike collision

[Piaw Na]

I think I used up all my luck for the next few years: 
https://www.strava.com/activities/8984851311. Coming down Prospect road on 
my Roadini, a deer tried to cross the road as I came around the corner. He 
swerved, I swerved, but we collided, and bounced. I saw my vision go up and 
down and thought it was all over. Fortunately, there was no traffic on the 
road and I didn't crash. The bike seems undamaged as it was my arms and 
legs that made contact. I kept riding home and the deer ran off into the 
bushes by the side of the road. I'm going to be so sore tomorrow. The whole 
thing was over in 2 seconds. I remember Terry Shaw once telling me about 
his days of racing in the velodrome where sprints would physically muscle 
each other while riding. I definitely felt muscled by something that 
outweighed me significantly!

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