Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Doug H.]

Nice build. Off-topic alert. I recently changed my Clem to 1x and am using 
a 40T chainring and 11-48 cassette. I never use the 48 and think I could 
easily have gone with a 11-42. I'm interested to find out how you do on 
steep inclines with the 42/36 low gear with this setup.
Thanks,
Doug

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:37:17 PM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> Well, if we’re sharing pictures. I don’t have any glamor shots yet but 
> here’s what I’ve got right now (pardon the messy house, just moved).
>
> From back to front:
> * Velocity Cliffhanger rear wheel with Velo-Orange hub
> * 10spd 11-36 cassette
> * Deore derailleur 
> * Shimano Alivio T4000 v-brakes
> * B17 saddle w/ Randy Joe Fab waxed canvas cover
> * Kaloy seatpost 
> * Velo-Orange 1x crank with 42T ring
> * 60mm stem
> * Velo-Orange Rando bars
> * Grepp bar cotton wrap
> * Tektro aero levers
> * Velo-Orange rack
> * Cliffhanger rim, Shutter Precision PD-8 hub
>
> Riding on 29x2.2 SimWorks Super Yummy tires
> Bag by The Spindle ATL.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 6:16 PM Stephen  wrote:
>
>> I'm a joe appaloosa rider and I've had mine set up at different times 
>> with: Loscos, Riv Bullmoose, Nitto B802AA, and currently its got the 
>> classic albatross.
>>
>> [image: appaloosa.jpg]
>> Pic for reference because all threads need bike pictures :)
>>
>> I'm going to be devil's advocate and support shortening the stem and 
>> making your drops work. 
>>
>>- First off its the most affordable and quickest solution, granted 
>>you are pleased with all other aspects of the handlebar setup. Also, you 
>>can get a pretty good idea of how much to shorten your stem since its the 
>>only variable changing. 
>>- Secondly, I selfishly want to see some more drop bar set up 
>>appaloosas. It seems really rare to do so, but lately I've been thinking 
>> it 
>>could work really well on the bike. I've seen more modern atlantis' with 
>>drops, and if anything the Joe is a slightly more road oriented version 
>> of 
>>that bike. List member Takahashi's Hunqapillar set up with drops also 
>> comes 
>>to mind.
>>- Thirdly, I don't think the Joe is so super long that it needs to be 
>>dedicated to swept back bars. This depends on your body's relation to 
>> your 
>>frame size of course, but on my 60cm, loscos + 11cm stem felt too 
>>short/cramped. For myself I've realized that if I go with swept back bars 
>> I 
>>need ones that sweep forward too, like the albatross.
>>
>> Another opinion with regards to albastache/mustache bars: if you are 
>> thinking of running them with flat bar type levers I'd say scrap that idea 
>> and just get albatrosses. thats a case of using something in a way it 
>> wasn't designed to be used and i think youd be happier with albatrosses. I 
>> have a set of albastache and I'd say it works best with the classic road 
>> brake lever setup and bar end shifters, or possibly bar end brake levers. 
>> and as previously stated they require a slightly shorter stem than an 
>> equivalent drop bar setup.
>>
>> And finally, to devil's advocate my devil's advocate... Rivendells are 
>> such fun bikes to experiment with different setups on. I love playing 
>> around with different handlebars and parts to spice up my bike and make it 
>> feel new again. Different handlebars are better at different things, and 
>> I've learned theres no perfect pick. I'm always gonna be swapping 
>> handlebars, sometimes to meet a certain situation, or just because I'm 
>> bored. if swept backs are calling your name, you might as well answer (i 
>> vote albatross or billie). 
>> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 4:48:01 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> I take all claims of a certain frame supposedly being designed for a 
>>> certain type of bar with a grain of salt as there are endless variables 
>>> that come in to play. The first is the rider themselves, not just body 
>>> proportions but flexibility, core strength and their ability to ride in a 
>>> position suitable for them. Same with bars and stems, none are limited to 
>>> or by each other, a given frame or rider. It's really up to the rider to 
>>> play around with their bike as no one else experiences your bike from your 
>>> unique perspective. I realize this is a online group to talk about stuff 
>>> and throw ideas around though, so playing a game of "what if" inevitable. 
>>>
>>> All that said, I looked at the geo charts @ bikeinsights and I don't see 
>>> the Appa as being particularly long in reach at all. I compared it to a 
>>> bike I have, a 60 Bomba, and a road frame I do not have, the Sam. the sizes 
>>> can be changed of course. The Bomba has 24mm reach than a Appa to for me 
>>> running a drop bar would be easy. Ted says the reach was too far, but I'd 
>>> want to know if the saddles were int he same relative position ? The Appa 
>>> has a 71.5d STA and the Bomba a 72. That equates to about a 6.5mm 
>>> difference. So if you didn't know 

Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Chester]

Doug Van Cleve wrote:

Hey Ted.

Not sure if you mean the OG Moustache or the Albastache, but I can tell you 
the OG requires a very short stem compared to drops.  It's because the main 
hand position is the full reach, there really isn't a good tops position 
like drops.  I gather that Albastache was designed mostly to shorten the 
reach...  Also, you can't use upright bar stuff on either of them so a 
flipped Albatross, Billie or Choco would seem to be best.


Soma makes a Moustache bar with a 25.4mm clamp area and 22.0mm grip area so 
you can use MTB grips and brake levers on them:

3-Speed Moustache II Bar - Soma Fabrications 


Soma has two Moustache Bar variants, the first "3-Speed Moustache Bar" 
being more similar to the OG Nitto version, but with the bar ends sweeping 
back a bit more.

3-Speed Moustache Bar - Soma Fabrications 
 

The second "II" variant of the Soma is the one with the 22.0mm grip area 

It's also different in having a shallower 35mm drop, whereas the first 
variant has a 60mm drop. (Which, in turn, is 10mm deeper than the 50mm drop 
of the Nitto.) This second version is also wider than their first version: 
540mm vs. 505mm.

The Soma Fab Blog: Soma 3-Speed II "Moustache" Handlebars: For mountain 
grips, shifters and brake levers 


So if someone was thinking of running an Albastache but wanted primary 
position to be in the bar-end grip area, with brakes there, then one could 
consider the Soma Moustache II with flat-bar/MTB levers. Drop won't be as 
super shallow as the Albastache, but only about 10mm less shallow (15mm 
shallower than the OG Nitto). And, of course, with the forward bends a more 
aggressively forward, while the bar ends sweep a little further back.

WhatBars.com has the Nitto and Soma Moustache Bars, and also the Albastache 
so you can see how the top-down profiles of each compare with each other.

Chester
SF Bay Area
 

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 9:18 AM Ted W  wrote:

That's an interesting idea, Doug. I would have never considered flipping 
Albatross bars like that. Another option I've considered is Mustache bars 
with flat bar levers near the back instead of the typical road levers up 
front. It seems to me like those are similar, if narrower, than something 
like the Albatross bar but have a similar (slightly more accentuated) 
curve. And, like flipping the albatross bars, would give a drop instead of 
a rise... I might play with that idea a bit tonight.

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 11:36 AM Doug Van Cleve  wrote:

Hey Ted.

I personally wouldn't run a super short stem, but those wide drops (and if 
I'm not mistaken relatively long reach) are making things worse for you.  A 
narrower modern bend, short and shallow drop bar would reduce the reach a 
fair bit, I think.  That said, I don't think any of the current super long 
chainstay RBW bikes are really suited for drops.  I just put together a JA 
that came with Albatross' and a Technomic, 9cm I think, and it feels too 
close and too tall in front.  It's a 51cm IIRC, whichever size is 650B, and 
the PBH size chart would have put me one size smaller.  I have a 
Choco-Moose waiting to go on it, I'm hoping that slammed it will give me 
more reach and lower bar height.

Doug

P.S.  You might consider flipped Albatross' as well, less reach and drop 
than any actual drop bar but still some...


On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 7:08 AM Ted W  wrote:

Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it today. 
First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The ride is 
amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive; nimble yet 
stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to channel the 
wisdom of the group.

Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O Randonneur). 
However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is really built 
with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a stem that's about 
half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels like quite a reach 
to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, this is where my 
question starts:

Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do I 
give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I go 
with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco bars 
on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want to 
be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I was 
thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so 
similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. I'm 
probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see what 
y'all think.

Cheers,
-- 
Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com > 

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Drew Fitchette]

Hey Ted!

I’ve got a 53cm Atlantis with 100mm stem and albatross bars, and a near 0 
mm stem with mustache bars on my Holdsworth. Both super different vibes, 
but I’m in Atlanta if you have a desire to check either of them out!

Love my Alba bars though!

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 10:35:38 PM UTC-4 brizbarn wrote:

> I started with SimWorks Little Nick bars with a 80mm 7 shaped stem on my 
> Appaloosa. Decided to try Billie bars after a few months just to see if I 
> would like a more upright position.  For me, they felt too upright, and 
> made pedaling hard / standing up to climb feel awkward. I put the SimWorks 
> bars back, but changed to a Nitto Periscopa stem and have been happy with 
> that. 
>
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:30:11 PM UTC-7 Doug Van Cleve wrote:
>
>> I clearly too WAY too long pondering my response, Garth nailed it here 
>> IMHO...
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 4:27 PM Garth  wrote:
>>
>>> Now that I see Ted's bike the picture is more clear. the VO bars are the 
>>> Grand Randonneur version which is markedly different from the Nouveau 
>>> version.  The difference in reach is 35mm, 120mm down to 85mm. I was going 
>>> to mention this but I assumed you had the Nouveau version. That bar or one 
>>> like it, as there are many shorter reach and relatively normal looking drop 
>>> bars these days, plus a bit more narrow width @46cm(hoods) may be enough 
>>> without a different stem. The Salsa Cowbell, Zipp Service Course 70 XPLR, 
>>> and some Ritchey versions come to mind as having 68-70mm reach and very 
>>> slight flares. 
>>>
>>> see here : https://bikepacking.com/index/gravel-bars/ 
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[brizbarn]

I started with SimWorks Little Nick bars with a 80mm 7 shaped stem on my 
Appaloosa. Decided to try Billie bars after a few months just to see if I 
would like a more upright position.  For me, they felt too upright, and 
made pedaling hard / standing up to climb feel awkward. I put the SimWorks 
bars back, but changed to a Nitto Periscopa stem and have been happy with 
that. 

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 5:30:11 PM UTC-7 Doug Van Cleve wrote:

> I clearly too WAY too long pondering my response, Garth nailed it here 
> IMHO...
>
> Doug
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 4:27 PM Garth  wrote:
>
>> Now that I see Ted's bike the picture is more clear. the VO bars are the 
>> Grand Randonneur version which is markedly different from the Nouveau 
>> version.  The difference in reach is 35mm, 120mm down to 85mm. I was going 
>> to mention this but I assumed you had the Nouveau version. That bar or one 
>> like it, as there are many shorter reach and relatively normal looking drop 
>> bars these days, plus a bit more narrow width @46cm(hoods) may be enough 
>> without a different stem. The Salsa Cowbell, Zipp Service Course 70 XPLR, 
>> and some Ritchey versions come to mind as having 68-70mm reach and very 
>> slight flares. 
>>
>> see here : https://bikepacking.com/index/gravel-bars/ 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Doug Van Cleve]

I clearly too WAY too long pondering my response, Garth nailed it here
IMHO...

Doug

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 4:27 PM Garth  wrote:

> Now that I see Ted's bike the picture is more clear. the VO bars are the
> Grand Randonneur version which is markedly different from the Nouveau
> version.  The difference in reach is 35mm, 120mm down to 85mm. I was going
> to mention this but I assumed you had the Nouveau version. That bar or one
> like it, as there are many shorter reach and relatively normal looking drop
> bars these days, plus a bit more narrow width @46cm(hoods) may be enough
> without a different stem. The Salsa Cowbell, Zipp Service Course 70 XPLR,
> and some Ritchey versions come to mind as having 68-70mm reach and very
> slight flares.
>
> see here : https://bikepacking.com/index/gravel-bars/
>

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Doug Van Cleve]

Hey Ted,

Pretty sure your pic confirms my suspicion...  Those bars have quite a long
reach and a fair bit of drop.  Even keeping the stem, something like a Soma
Highway One in 44 or 46cm would shorten your reach and drop a decent
amount:
https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/soma-handlebar-hwy-one-road-bar-4369?page=2=783#attr=3003,1855,2365
(I think ;^)

Doug


On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 3:37 PM Ted W  wrote:

> Well, if we’re sharing pictures. I don’t have any glamor shots yet but
> here’s what I’ve got right now (pardon the messy house, just moved).
>
> From back to front:
> * Velocity Cliffhanger rear wheel with Velo-Orange hub
> * 10spd 11-36 cassette
> * Deore derailleur
> * Shimano Alivio T4000 v-brakes
> * B17 saddle w/ Randy Joe Fab waxed canvas cover
> * Kaloy seatpost
> * Velo-Orange 1x crank with 42T ring
> * 60mm stem
> * Velo-Orange Rando bars
> * Grepp bar cotton wrap
> * Tektro aero levers
> * Velo-Orange rack
> * Cliffhanger rim, Shutter Precision PD-8 hub
>
> Riding on 29x2.2 SimWorks Super Yummy tires
> Bag by The Spindle ATL.
>

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Garth]

Now that I see Ted's bike the picture is more clear. the VO bars are the 
Grand Randonneur version which is markedly different from the Nouveau 
version.  The difference in reach is 35mm, 120mm down to 85mm. I was going 
to mention this but I assumed you had the Nouveau version. That bar or one 
like it, as there are many shorter reach and relatively normal looking drop 
bars these days, plus a bit more narrow width @46cm(hoods) may be enough 
without a different stem. The Salsa Cowbell, Zipp Service Course 70 XPLR, 
and some Ritchey versions come to mind as having 68-70mm reach and very 
slight flares. 

see here : https://bikepacking.com/index/gravel-bars/

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[jaredwilson]

Slick build, Ted.

Although I just ordered a pair of Albatross bars yesterday for my Platypus 
I'm gonna throw in a vote for keeping the drop bars and going with a 
shorter stem. I would like to try drops on my Platy at some point but can't 
shake the visual aspect of drops on a "trip thru" frame, it just doesn't 
jive for me.

If you're on Instagram I recommend checking out user "aquietpractice" for 
images of his Atlantis 2 with what seems to be a 0mm Discord w(Right) stem, 
looks pretty comfortable to me.

Keep us posted with what you decide to do.

Best,

Jared

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 3:37:17 PM UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> Well, if we’re sharing pictures. I don’t have any glamor shots yet but 
> here’s what I’ve got right now (pardon the messy house, just moved).
>
> From back to front:
> * Velocity Cliffhanger rear wheel with Velo-Orange hub
> * 10spd 11-36 cassette
> * Deore derailleur 
> * Shimano Alivio T4000 v-brakes
> * B17 saddle w/ Randy Joe Fab waxed canvas cover
> * Kaloy seatpost 
> * Velo-Orange 1x crank with 42T ring
> * 60mm stem
> * Velo-Orange Rando bars
> * Grepp bar cotton wrap
> * Tektro aero levers
> * Velo-Orange rack
> * Cliffhanger rim, Shutter Precision PD-8 hub
>
> Riding on 29x2.2 SimWorks Super Yummy tires
> Bag by The Spindle ATL.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 6:16 PM Stephen  wrote:
>
>> I'm a joe appaloosa rider and I've had mine set up at different times 
>> with: Loscos, Riv Bullmoose, Nitto B802AA, and currently its got the 
>> classic albatross.
>>
>> [image: appaloosa.jpg]
>> Pic for reference because all threads need bike pictures :)
>>
>> I'm going to be devil's advocate and support shortening the stem and 
>> making your drops work. 
>>
>>- First off its the most affordable and quickest solution, granted 
>>you are pleased with all other aspects of the handlebar setup. Also, you 
>>can get a pretty good idea of how much to shorten your stem since its the 
>>only variable changing. 
>>- Secondly, I selfishly want to see some more drop bar set up 
>>appaloosas. It seems really rare to do so, but lately I've been thinking 
>> it 
>>could work really well on the bike. I've seen more modern atlantis' with 
>>drops, and if anything the Joe is a slightly more road oriented version 
>> of 
>>that bike. List member Takahashi's Hunqapillar set up with drops also 
>> comes 
>>to mind.
>>- Thirdly, I don't think the Joe is so super long that it needs to be 
>>dedicated to swept back bars. This depends on your body's relation to 
>> your 
>>frame size of course, but on my 60cm, loscos + 11cm stem felt too 
>>short/cramped. For myself I've realized that if I go with swept back bars 
>> I 
>>need ones that sweep forward too, like the albatross.
>>
>> Another opinion with regards to albastache/mustache bars: if you are 
>> thinking of running them with flat bar type levers I'd say scrap that idea 
>> and just get albatrosses. thats a case of using something in a way it 
>> wasn't designed to be used and i think youd be happier with albatrosses. I 
>> have a set of albastache and I'd say it works best with the classic road 
>> brake lever setup and bar end shifters, or possibly bar end brake levers. 
>> and as previously stated they require a slightly shorter stem than an 
>> equivalent drop bar setup.
>>
>> And finally, to devil's advocate my devil's advocate... Rivendells are 
>> such fun bikes to experiment with different setups on. I love playing 
>> around with different handlebars and parts to spice up my bike and make it 
>> feel new again. Different handlebars are better at different things, and 
>> I've learned theres no perfect pick. I'm always gonna be swapping 
>> handlebars, sometimes to meet a certain situation, or just because I'm 
>> bored. if swept backs are calling your name, you might as well answer (i 
>> vote albatross or billie). 
>> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 4:48:01 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> I take all claims of a certain frame supposedly being designed for a 
>>> certain type of bar with a grain of salt as there are endless variables 
>>> that come in to play. The first is the rider themselves, not just body 
>>> proportions but flexibility, core strength and their ability to ride in a 
>>> position suitable for them. Same with bars and stems, none are limited to 
>>> or by each other, a given frame or rider. It's really up to the rider to 
>>> play around with their bike as no one else experiences your bike from your 
>>> unique perspective. I realize this is a online group to talk about stuff 
>>> and throw ideas around though, so playing a game of "what if" inevitable. 
>>>
>>> All that said, I looked at the geo charts @ bikeinsights and I don't see 
>>> the Appa as being particularly long in reach at all. I compared it to a 
>>> bike I have, a 60 Bomba, and a road frame I do not have, the Sam. the sizes 
>>> can be changed of course. The Bomba has 24mm reach than a 

Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Stephen]

Also, I recommend looking at whatbars.com to compare handlebar shapes! 

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 6:16:17 PM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:

> I'm a joe appaloosa rider and I've had mine set up at different times 
> with: Loscos, Riv Bullmoose, Nitto B802AA, and currently its got the 
> classic albatross.
>
> [image: appaloosa.jpg]
> Pic for reference because all threads need bike pictures :)
>
> I'm going to be devil's advocate and support shortening the stem and 
> making your drops work. 
>
>- First off its the most affordable and quickest solution, granted you 
>are pleased with all other aspects of the handlebar setup. Also, you can 
>get a pretty good idea of how much to shorten your stem since its the only 
>variable changing. 
>- Secondly, I selfishly want to see some more drop bar set up 
>appaloosas. It seems really rare to do so, but lately I've been thinking 
> it 
>could work really well on the bike. I've seen more modern atlantis' with 
>drops, and if anything the Joe is a slightly more road oriented version of 
>that bike. List member Takahashi's Hunqapillar set up with drops also 
> comes 
>to mind.
>- Thirdly, I don't think the Joe is so super long that it needs to be 
>dedicated to swept back bars. This depends on your body's relation to your 
>frame size of course, but on my 60cm, loscos + 11cm stem felt too 
>short/cramped. For myself I've realized that if I go with swept back bars 
> I 
>need ones that sweep forward too, like the albatross.
>
> Another opinion with regards to albastache/mustache bars: if you are 
> thinking of running them with flat bar type levers I'd say scrap that idea 
> and just get albatrosses. thats a case of using something in a way it 
> wasn't designed to be used and i think youd be happier with albatrosses. I 
> have a set of albastache and I'd say it works best with the classic road 
> brake lever setup and bar end shifters, or possibly bar end brake levers. 
> and as previously stated they require a slightly shorter stem than an 
> equivalent drop bar setup.
>
> And finally, to devil's advocate my devil's advocate... Rivendells are 
> such fun bikes to experiment with different setups on. I love playing 
> around with different handlebars and parts to spice up my bike and make it 
> feel new again. Different handlebars are better at different things, and 
> I've learned theres no perfect pick. I'm always gonna be swapping 
> handlebars, sometimes to meet a certain situation, or just because I'm 
> bored. if swept backs are calling your name, you might as well answer (i 
> vote albatross or billie). 
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 4:48:01 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>
>> I take all claims of a certain frame supposedly being designed for a 
>> certain type of bar with a grain of salt as there are endless variables 
>> that come in to play. The first is the rider themselves, not just body 
>> proportions but flexibility, core strength and their ability to ride in a 
>> position suitable for them. Same with bars and stems, none are limited to 
>> or by each other, a given frame or rider. It's really up to the rider to 
>> play around with their bike as no one else experiences your bike from your 
>> unique perspective. I realize this is a online group to talk about stuff 
>> and throw ideas around though, so playing a game of "what if" inevitable. 
>>
>> All that said, I looked at the geo charts @ bikeinsights and I don't see 
>> the Appa as being particularly long in reach at all. I compared it to a 
>> bike I have, a 60 Bomba, and a road frame I do not have, the Sam. the sizes 
>> can be changed of course. The Bomba has 24mm reach than a Appa to for me 
>> running a drop bar would be easy. Ted says the reach was too far, but I'd 
>> want to know if the saddles were int he same relative position ? The Appa 
>> has a 71.5d STA and the Bomba a 72. That equates to about a 6.5mm 
>> difference. So if you didn't know and just set up your saddles on the same 
>> positions on the rails you wouldn't even know that one was further back by 
>> 6.5mm. While that may not seem like much, it does all add up. 
>>
>> If you do choose a swept back bar nay to the Billie in my opnion, it's 
>> too long rearward for your modest needs. An Albastache bar would also 
>> require a very short stem to get a shorter reach, so if you're gonna do 
>> that you may as try a shorter stem for the drop bars first. I've had both 
>> steel and AL Albatross bars and I prefer the steel as I use it with bar end 
>> brake levers and thumbshifters mounted around the inside of the curve so I 
>> have the entire bar free. It "may" have more rise than you want though. I 
>> tried it flipped before and it wasn't what I expected, I hated it. The top 
>> curve actually feels better with the rise up and I thought reverso may feel 
>> better, but it didn't. It looks cool, but felt awful. I have no experience 
>> with a Choco bar, but there's no way in 

Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Garth]

I take all claims of a certain frame supposedly being designed for a 
certain type of bar with a grain of salt as there are endless variables 
that come in to play. The first is the rider themselves, not just body 
proportions but flexibility, core strength and their ability to ride in a 
position suitable for them. Same with bars and stems, none are limited to 
or by each other, a given frame or rider. It's really up to the rider to 
play around with their bike as no one else experiences your bike from your 
unique perspective. I realize this is a online group to talk about stuff 
and throw ideas around though, so playing a game of "what if" inevitable. 

All that said, I looked at the geo charts @ bikeinsights and I don't see 
the Appa as being particularly long in reach at all. I compared it to a 
bike I have, a 60 Bomba, and a road frame I do not have, the Sam. the sizes 
can be changed of course. The Bomba has 24mm reach than a Appa to for me 
running a drop bar would be easy. Ted says the reach was too far, but I'd 
want to know if the saddles were int he same relative position ? The Appa 
has a 71.5d STA and the Bomba a 72. That equates to about a 6.5mm 
difference. So if you didn't know and just set up your saddles on the same 
positions on the rails you wouldn't even know that one was further back by 
6.5mm. While that may not seem like much, it does all add up. 

If you do choose a swept back bar nay to the Billie in my opnion, it's too 
long rearward for your modest needs. An Albastache bar would also require a 
very short stem to get a shorter reach, so if you're gonna do that you may 
as try a shorter stem for the drop bars first. I've had both steel and AL 
Albatross bars and I prefer the steel as I use it with bar end brake levers 
and thumbshifters mounted around the inside of the curve so I have the 
entire bar free. It "may" have more rise than you want though. I tried it 
flipped before and it wasn't what I expected, I hated it. The top curve 
actually feels better with the rise up and I thought reverso may feel 
better, but it didn't. It looks cool, but felt awful. I have no experience 
with a Choco bar, but there's no way in h-e-double toothpicks I'd ever get 
a bar fixed to a stem. Again, looks cool, but offers zero flexibility. I 
don't suppose a Choco was made in steel, but I recall Blue Lug having a 
steel bar somewhat similar, a M356 ? Yeah, that's it ! 
https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-b356-m-s-bar-silver.html. Sure shipping is 
like $46 but you gotta look at overall cost, plus there may be other stuff 
you'd like. That looks like it's quite versatile to various stem heights 
and lengths and won't be a wet noodle. With thumbshifters at the top inside 
angled section and bar end levers you're free to find the best position at 
any given time. Needless to say, I'm highly biased against mtb levers as 
they're always in the way of the hands on the bars, and what's room on a 
bar for but to move your hands around ? DOH ! 

That's how it goes with asking for "advice" though huh, you get everyone's 
wishlist thrown at you as to what to do !  Ahahahahaha !!


https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=646ed3ba6c60a90021cb6aa6,5b8578f448f3a30004789ad8,

https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=646ed3ba6c60a90021cb6aa6,638a1581423463001c996236,




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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Johnny Alien]

I need to learn to proofread better considering I can't edit my posts here.

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 4:09:21 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Unless there is a reason to need the stiffness there isn't much of a 
> reason to go with the moose version of the choco bar over a standard 
> bar/stem combo. WAY more flexibility that way. Now if you need the 
> robustness or stiffness that the moose version is very nice but it IS 
> overbuilt or most applications with a huge trade off in set up options. But 
> I agree they should be a solid first choice option for an Appaloosa.
>
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:31:45 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> If between the Billie and Alba I'd go Billie, having run both. Much 
>> prefer the longer sweep back of the Billie and greater real estate for 
>> shifters, levers and the "hooks" position on the bars which for me is 
>> critical for climbing or spirited riding. 
>>
>> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:02:12 PM UTC-4 Doug Van Cleve wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Ted.
>>>
>>> Not sure if you mean the OG Moustache or the Albastache, but I can tell 
>>> you the OG requires a very short stem compared to drops.  It's because the 
>>> main hand position is the full reach, there really isn't a good tops 
>>> position like drops.  I gather that Albastache was designed mostly to 
>>> shorten the reach...  Also, you can't use upright bar stuff on either of 
>>> them so a flipped Albatross, Billie or Choco would seem to be best.
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 9:18 AM Ted W  wrote:
>>>
 That's an interesting idea, Doug. I would have never considered 
 flipping Albatross bars like that. Another option I've considered is 
 Mustache bars with flat bar levers near the back instead of the typical 
 road levers up front. It seems to me like those are similar, if narrower, 
 than something like the Albatross bar but have a similar (slightly more 
 accentuated) curve. And, like flipping the albatross bars, would give a 
 drop instead of a rise... I might play with that idea a bit tonight.

 On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 11:36 AM Doug Van Cleve  
 wrote:

> Hey Ted.
>
> I personally wouldn't run a super short stem, but those wide drops 
> (and if I'm not mistaken relatively long reach) are making things worse 
> for 
> you.  A narrower modern bend, short and shallow drop bar would reduce the 
> reach a fair bit, I think.  That said, I don't think any of the current 
> super long chainstay RBW bikes are really suited for drops.  I just put 
> together a JA that came with Albatross' and a Technomic, 9cm I think, and 
> it feels too close and too tall in front.  It's a 51cm IIRC, whichever 
> size 
> is 650B, and the PBH size chart would have put me one size smaller.  I 
> have 
> a Choco-Moose waiting to go on it, I'm hoping that slammed it will give 
> me 
> more reach and lower bar height.
>
> Doug
>
> P.S.  You might consider flipped Albatross' as well, less reach and 
> drop than any actual drop bar but still some...
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 7:08 AM Ted W  wrote:
>
>> Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it 
>> today. First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The 
>> ride is amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive; 
>> nimble yet stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to 
>> channel the wisdom of the group.
>>
>> Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O 
>> Randonneur). However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is 
>> really built with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a 
>> stem 
>> that's about half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels 
>> like 
>> quite a reach to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, 
>> this is where my question starts:
>>
>> Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do 
>> I give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I 
>> go 
>> with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco 
>> bars 
>> on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want 
>> to 
>> be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I 
>> was 
>> thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so 
>> similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. 
>> I'm 
>> probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see 
>> what 
>> y'all think.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -- 
>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com > 
>>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop 

Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Johnny Alien]

Unless there is a reason to need the stiffness there isn't much of a reason 
to go with the moose version of the choco bar over a standard bar/stem 
combo. WAY more flexibility that way. Now if you need the robustness or 
stiffness that the moose version is very nice but it IS overbuilt or most 
applications with a huge trade off in set up options. But I agree they 
should be a solid first choice option for an Appaloosa.

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:31:45 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> If between the Billie and Alba I'd go Billie, having run both. Much prefer 
> the longer sweep back of the Billie and greater real estate for shifters, 
> levers and the "hooks" position on the bars which for me is critical for 
> climbing or spirited riding. 
>
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:02:12 PM UTC-4 Doug Van Cleve wrote:
>
>> Hey Ted.
>>
>> Not sure if you mean the OG Moustache or the Albastache, but I can tell 
>> you the OG requires a very short stem compared to drops.  It's because the 
>> main hand position is the full reach, there really isn't a good tops 
>> position like drops.  I gather that Albastache was designed mostly to 
>> shorten the reach...  Also, you can't use upright bar stuff on either of 
>> them so a flipped Albatross, Billie or Choco would seem to be best.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 9:18 AM Ted W  wrote:
>>
>>> That's an interesting idea, Doug. I would have never considered flipping 
>>> Albatross bars like that. Another option I've considered is Mustache bars 
>>> with flat bar levers near the back instead of the typical road levers up 
>>> front. It seems to me like those are similar, if narrower, than something 
>>> like the Albatross bar but have a similar (slightly more accentuated) 
>>> curve. And, like flipping the albatross bars, would give a drop instead of 
>>> a rise... I might play with that idea a bit tonight.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 11:36 AM Doug Van Cleve  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey Ted.

 I personally wouldn't run a super short stem, but those wide drops (and 
 if I'm not mistaken relatively long reach) are making things worse for 
 you.  A narrower modern bend, short and shallow drop bar would reduce the 
 reach a fair bit, I think.  That said, I don't think any of the current 
 super long chainstay RBW bikes are really suited for drops.  I just put 
 together a JA that came with Albatross' and a Technomic, 9cm I think, and 
 it feels too close and too tall in front.  It's a 51cm IIRC, whichever 
 size 
 is 650B, and the PBH size chart would have put me one size smaller.  I 
 have 
 a Choco-Moose waiting to go on it, I'm hoping that slammed it will give me 
 more reach and lower bar height.

 Doug

 P.S.  You might consider flipped Albatross' as well, less reach and 
 drop than any actual drop bar but still some...


 On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 7:08 AM Ted W  wrote:

> Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it 
> today. First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The 
> ride is amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive; 
> nimble yet stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to 
> channel the wisdom of the group.
>
> Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O Randonneur). 
> However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is really built 
> with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a stem that's 
> about 
> half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels like quite a 
> reach 
> to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, this is where 
> my 
> question starts:
>
> Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do 
> I give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I 
> go 
> with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco 
> bars 
> on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want to 
> be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I 
> was 
> thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so 
> similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. 
> I'm 
> probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see what 
> y'all think.
>
> Cheers,
> -- 
> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com > 
>
 -- 
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 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Eric Marth]

If between the Billie and Alba I'd go Billie, having run both. Much prefer 
the longer sweep back of the Billie and greater real estate for shifters, 
levers and the "hooks" position on the bars which for me is critical for 
climbing or spirited riding. 

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:02:12 PM UTC-4 Doug Van Cleve wrote:

> Hey Ted.
>
> Not sure if you mean the OG Moustache or the Albastache, but I can tell 
> you the OG requires a very short stem compared to drops.  It's because the 
> main hand position is the full reach, there really isn't a good tops 
> position like drops.  I gather that Albastache was designed mostly to 
> shorten the reach...  Also, you can't use upright bar stuff on either of 
> them so a flipped Albatross, Billie or Choco would seem to be best.
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 9:18 AM Ted W  wrote:
>
>> That's an interesting idea, Doug. I would have never considered flipping 
>> Albatross bars like that. Another option I've considered is Mustache bars 
>> with flat bar levers near the back instead of the typical road levers up 
>> front. It seems to me like those are similar, if narrower, than something 
>> like the Albatross bar but have a similar (slightly more accentuated) 
>> curve. And, like flipping the albatross bars, would give a drop instead of 
>> a rise... I might play with that idea a bit tonight.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 11:36 AM Doug Van Cleve  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Ted.
>>>
>>> I personally wouldn't run a super short stem, but those wide drops (and 
>>> if I'm not mistaken relatively long reach) are making things worse for 
>>> you.  A narrower modern bend, short and shallow drop bar would reduce the 
>>> reach a fair bit, I think.  That said, I don't think any of the current 
>>> super long chainstay RBW bikes are really suited for drops.  I just put 
>>> together a JA that came with Albatross' and a Technomic, 9cm I think, and 
>>> it feels too close and too tall in front.  It's a 51cm IIRC, whichever size 
>>> is 650B, and the PBH size chart would have put me one size smaller.  I have 
>>> a Choco-Moose waiting to go on it, I'm hoping that slammed it will give me 
>>> more reach and lower bar height.
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> P.S.  You might consider flipped Albatross' as well, less reach and drop 
>>> than any actual drop bar but still some...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 7:08 AM Ted W  wrote:
>>>
 Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it 
 today. First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The 
 ride is amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive; 
 nimble yet stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to 
 channel the wisdom of the group.

 Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O Randonneur). 
 However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is really built 
 with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a stem that's 
 about 
 half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels like quite a reach 
 to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, this is where 
 my 
 question starts:

 Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do I 
 give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I go 
 with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco bars 
 on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want to 
 be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I 
 was 
 thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so 
 similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. 
 I'm 
 probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see what 
 y'all think.

 Cheers,
 -- 
 Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com > 

>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAK64jTE-PhzxBf%2BjqmNnK_NyPKu7kDL0QpzkbDBVjocGeEci2g%40mail.gmail.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANCvSho00h-9xNqPDtXLLdiP21oGSmu%3DzPm4JaQ%3DKbnguGvn0g%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 

Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Doug Van Cleve]

Hey Ted.

Not sure if you mean the OG Moustache or the Albastache, but I can tell you
the OG requires a very short stem compared to drops.  It's because the main
hand position is the full reach, there really isn't a good tops position
like drops.  I gather that Albastache was designed mostly to shorten the
reach...  Also, you can't use upright bar stuff on either of them so a
flipped Albatross, Billie or Choco would seem to be best.

Doug


On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 9:18 AM Ted W  wrote:

> That's an interesting idea, Doug. I would have never considered flipping
> Albatross bars like that. Another option I've considered is Mustache bars
> with flat bar levers near the back instead of the typical road levers up
> front. It seems to me like those are similar, if narrower, than something
> like the Albatross bar but have a similar (slightly more accentuated)
> curve. And, like flipping the albatross bars, would give a drop instead of
> a rise... I might play with that idea a bit tonight.
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 11:36 AM Doug Van Cleve 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Ted.
>>
>> I personally wouldn't run a super short stem, but those wide drops (and
>> if I'm not mistaken relatively long reach) are making things worse for
>> you.  A narrower modern bend, short and shallow drop bar would reduce the
>> reach a fair bit, I think.  That said, I don't think any of the current
>> super long chainstay RBW bikes are really suited for drops.  I just put
>> together a JA that came with Albatross' and a Technomic, 9cm I think, and
>> it feels too close and too tall in front.  It's a 51cm IIRC, whichever size
>> is 650B, and the PBH size chart would have put me one size smaller.  I have
>> a Choco-Moose waiting to go on it, I'm hoping that slammed it will give me
>> more reach and lower bar height.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> P.S.  You might consider flipped Albatross' as well, less reach and drop
>> than any actual drop bar but still some...
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 7:08 AM Ted W  wrote:
>>
>>> Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it
>>> today. First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The
>>> ride is amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive;
>>> nimble yet stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to
>>> channel the wisdom of the group.
>>>
>>> Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O Randonneur).
>>> However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is really built
>>> with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a stem that's about
>>> half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels like quite a reach
>>> to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, this is where my
>>> question starts:
>>>
>>> Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do I
>>> give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I go
>>> with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco bars
>>> on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want to
>>> be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I was
>>> thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so
>>> similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. I'm
>>> probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see what
>>> y'all think.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> --
>>> Ted Wood < ted.l.w...@gmail.com >
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAK64jTE-PhzxBf%2BjqmNnK_NyPKu7kDL0QpzkbDBVjocGeEci2g%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
> Ted Wood < ted.l.w...@gmail.com >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANCvSho00h-9xNqPDtXLLdiP21oGSmu%3DzPm4JaQ%3DKbnguGvn0g%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Ted W]

That's an interesting idea, Doug. I would have never considered flipping
Albatross bars like that. Another option I've considered is Mustache bars
with flat bar levers near the back instead of the typical road levers up
front. It seems to me like those are similar, if narrower, than something
like the Albatross bar but have a similar (slightly more accentuated)
curve. And, like flipping the albatross bars, would give a drop instead of
a rise... I might play with that idea a bit tonight.

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 11:36 AM Doug Van Cleve  wrote:

> Hey Ted.
>
> I personally wouldn't run a super short stem, but those wide drops (and if
> I'm not mistaken relatively long reach) are making things worse for you.  A
> narrower modern bend, short and shallow drop bar would reduce the reach a
> fair bit, I think.  That said, I don't think any of the current super long
> chainstay RBW bikes are really suited for drops.  I just put together a JA
> that came with Albatross' and a Technomic, 9cm I think, and it feels too
> close and too tall in front.  It's a 51cm IIRC, whichever size is 650B, and
> the PBH size chart would have put me one size smaller.  I have a
> Choco-Moose waiting to go on it, I'm hoping that slammed it will give me
> more reach and lower bar height.
>
> Doug
>
> P.S.  You might consider flipped Albatross' as well, less reach and drop
> than any actual drop bar but still some...
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 7:08 AM Ted W  wrote:
>
>> Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it
>> today. First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The
>> ride is amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive;
>> nimble yet stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to
>> channel the wisdom of the group.
>>
>> Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O Randonneur).
>> However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is really built
>> with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a stem that's about
>> half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels like quite a reach
>> to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, this is where my
>> question starts:
>>
>> Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do I
>> give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I go
>> with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco bars
>> on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want to
>> be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I was
>> thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so
>> similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. I'm
>> probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see what
>> y'all think.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> --
>> Ted Wood < ted.l.w...@gmail.com >
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAK64jTE-PhzxBf%2BjqmNnK_NyPKu7kDL0QpzkbDBVjocGeEci2g%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>


-- 
Ted Wood < ted.l.w...@gmail.com >

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Doug Van Cleve]

Hey Ted.

I personally wouldn't run a super short stem, but those wide drops (and if
I'm not mistaken relatively long reach) are making things worse for you.  A
narrower modern bend, short and shallow drop bar would reduce the reach a
fair bit, I think.  That said, I don't think any of the current super long
chainstay RBW bikes are really suited for drops.  I just put together a JA
that came with Albatross' and a Technomic, 9cm I think, and it feels too
close and too tall in front.  It's a 51cm IIRC, whichever size is 650B, and
the PBH size chart would have put me one size smaller.  I have a
Choco-Moose waiting to go on it, I'm hoping that slammed it will give me
more reach and lower bar height.

Doug

P.S.  You might consider flipped Albatross' as well, less reach and drop
than any actual drop bar but still some...


On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 7:08 AM Ted W  wrote:

> Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it
> today. First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The
> ride is amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive;
> nimble yet stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to
> channel the wisdom of the group.
>
> Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O Randonneur).
> However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is really built
> with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a stem that's about
> half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels like quite a reach
> to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, this is where my
> question starts:
>
> Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do I
> give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I go
> with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco bars
> on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want to
> be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I was
> thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so
> similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. I'm
> probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see what
> y'all think.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Ted Wood < ted.l.w...@gmail.com >
>

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[DavidP]

Albatross bars are pretty versatile  with a large range of positions and 
work well on roadish bikes that see some dirt. I've found that using a stem 
30-40mm longer than my drop bar stem puts the grips of the Albatross bar in 
a more upright position than the tops of the drop bar, and moving my hands 
up to the bends feels like riding on the hoods. You can get even lower by 
moving into the hooks of the Albatross bar and bending your elbows.

A brake lever with a low profile clamp is nice as it lets you place your 
hands anywhere from the grips to the bends comfortably.

-Dave

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 11:05:07 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> If you don't want to be too upright and want to maintain a bit of the feel 
> of drops I highly recommend the choco or losco bars.
>
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 10:37:51 AM UTC-4 Valerie Yates wrote:
>
>> For me, when in doubt, try Albatross. Other bars can be hit or miss for 
>> me on different frames. The albatross never disappoints me. I just switched 
>> my Joe to from Chocomoose to albatross and they feel terrific - free and 
>> easy.  
>>
>> I don’t see a benefit in using a really short stem to maintain drop bars 
>> on a Joe. 
>>
>> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-6 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> My limited experience with these bikes is that it's probably best to set 
>>> them up the way they were designed. That reach is such an important factor 
>>> in the comfort of a bike. I've been considering Joes and Sams and 
>>> Altantises a lot lately, and if I were to choose a Joe, it would definitely 
>>> have either Toscos or Billie bars. I can never imagine my Gus being 
>>> comfortable with anything other than upright, swept-back bars (like my 
>>> Toscos with a 110 stem), because the reach on the frame is so long. 
>>> Even classic models like the Atlantis and the Homer have changed so much 
>>> with the extended stays and longer reaches, that I feel like you see less 
>>> and less of these newer models with drops these days. Of course, there's 
>>> many different body types and styles of riding to factor into it, so to 
>>> each their own. Personally, I can't see myself owning another Rivendell 
>>> with drop bars unless it was an older, more traditionally designed model.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 10:08 AM Ted W  wrote:
>>>
 Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it 
 today. First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The 
 ride is amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive; 
 nimble yet stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to 
 channel the wisdom of the group.

 Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O Randonneur). 
 However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is really built 
 with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a stem that's 
 about 
 half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels like quite a reach 
 to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, this is where 
 my 
 question starts:

 Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do I 
 give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I go 
 with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco bars 
 on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want to 
 be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I 
 was 
 thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so 
 similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. 
 I'm 
 probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see what 
 y'all think.

 Cheers,
 -- 
 Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >

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 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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 .

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Johnny Alien]

If you don't want to be too upright and want to maintain a bit of the feel 
of drops I highly recommend the choco or losco bars.

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 10:37:51 AM UTC-4 Valerie Yates wrote:

> For me, when in doubt, try Albatross. Other bars can be hit or miss for me 
> on different frames. The albatross never disappoints me. I just switched my 
> Joe to from Chocomoose to albatross and they feel terrific - free and easy. 
>  
>
> I don’t see a benefit in using a really short stem to maintain drop bars 
> on a Joe. 
>
> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-6 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> My limited experience with these bikes is that it's probably best to set 
>> them up the way they were designed. That reach is such an important factor 
>> in the comfort of a bike. I've been considering Joes and Sams and 
>> Altantises a lot lately, and if I were to choose a Joe, it would definitely 
>> have either Toscos or Billie bars. I can never imagine my Gus being 
>> comfortable with anything other than upright, swept-back bars (like my 
>> Toscos with a 110 stem), because the reach on the frame is so long. 
>> Even classic models like the Atlantis and the Homer have changed so much 
>> with the extended stays and longer reaches, that I feel like you see less 
>> and less of these newer models with drops these days. Of course, there's 
>> many different body types and styles of riding to factor into it, so to 
>> each their own. Personally, I can't see myself owning another Rivendell 
>> with drop bars unless it was an older, more traditionally designed model.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 10:08 AM Ted W  wrote:
>>
>>> Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it 
>>> today. First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The 
>>> ride is amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive; 
>>> nimble yet stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to 
>>> channel the wisdom of the group.
>>>
>>> Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O Randonneur). 
>>> However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is really built 
>>> with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a stem that's about 
>>> half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels like quite a reach 
>>> to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, this is where my 
>>> question starts:
>>>
>>> Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do I 
>>> give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I go 
>>> with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco bars 
>>> on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want to 
>>> be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I was 
>>> thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so 
>>> similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. I'm 
>>> probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see what 
>>> y'all think.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -- 
>>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANCvShpXY3fGzrS2nt3t6ZBeHeaFsi2dFhAiHFLykU5J9rGQCA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Valerie Yates]

For me, when in doubt, try Albatross. Other bars can be hit or miss for me 
on different frames. The albatross never disappoints me. I just switched my 
Joe to from Chocomoose to albatross and they feel terrific - free and easy. 
 

I don’t see a benefit in using a really short stem to maintain drop bars on 
a Joe. 

On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 8:23:52 AM UTC-6 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> My limited experience with these bikes is that it's probably best to set 
> them up the way they were designed. That reach is such an important factor 
> in the comfort of a bike. I've been considering Joes and Sams and 
> Altantises a lot lately, and if I were to choose a Joe, it would definitely 
> have either Toscos or Billie bars. I can never imagine my Gus being 
> comfortable with anything other than upright, swept-back bars (like my 
> Toscos with a 110 stem), because the reach on the frame is so long. 
> Even classic models like the Atlantis and the Homer have changed so much 
> with the extended stays and longer reaches, that I feel like you see less 
> and less of these newer models with drops these days. Of course, there's 
> many different body types and styles of riding to factor into it, so to 
> each their own. Personally, I can't see myself owning another Rivendell 
> with drop bars unless it was an older, more traditionally designed model.
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 10:08 AM Ted W  wrote:
>
>> Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it 
>> today. First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The 
>> ride is amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive; 
>> nimble yet stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to 
>> channel the wisdom of the group.
>>
>> Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O Randonneur). 
>> However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is really built 
>> with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a stem that's about 
>> half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels like quite a reach 
>> to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, this is where my 
>> question starts:
>>
>> Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do I 
>> give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I go 
>> with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco bars 
>> on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want to 
>> be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I was 
>> thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so 
>> similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. I'm 
>> probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see what 
>> y'all think.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -- 
>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANCvShpXY3fGzrS2nt3t6ZBeHeaFsi2dFhAiHFLykU5J9rGQCA%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Brian Turner]

My limited experience with these bikes is that it's probably best to set
them up the way they were designed. That reach is such an important factor
in the comfort of a bike. I've been considering Joes and Sams and
Altantises a lot lately, and if I were to choose a Joe, it would definitely
have either Toscos or Billie bars. I can never imagine my Gus being
comfortable with anything other than upright, swept-back bars (like my
Toscos with a 110 stem), because the reach on the frame is so long.
Even classic models like the Atlantis and the Homer have changed so much
with the extended stays and longer reaches, that I feel like you see less
and less of these newer models with drops these days. Of course, there's
many different body types and styles of riding to factor into it, so to
each their own. Personally, I can't see myself owning another Rivendell
with drop bars unless it was an older, more traditionally designed model.

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 10:08 AM Ted W  wrote:

> Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it
> today. First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The
> ride is amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive;
> nimble yet stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to
> channel the wisdom of the group.
>
> Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O Randonneur).
> However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is really built
> with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a stem that's about
> half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels like quite a reach
> to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, this is where my
> question starts:
>
> Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do I
> give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I go
> with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco bars
> on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want to
> be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I was
> thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so
> similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. I'm
> probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see what
> y'all think.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Ted Wood < ted.l.w...@gmail.com >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANCvShpXY3fGzrS2nt3t6ZBeHeaFsi2dFhAiHFLykU5J9rGQCA%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Appaloosa Build Opinions

[Ted W]

Got my Appa on Monday, built it yesterday and commuted to work on it today.
First impressions are that it's exactly what I had hoped for. The ride is
amazing and it feels so plush while still remaining responsive; nimble yet
stable. But I think it could still be better and I want to channel the
wisdom of the group.

Currently, I have the bike built with drop bars (50cm V/O Randonneur).
However, I know this frame, like many of the Riv frames, is really built
with swept back bars in mind. Knowing this, I went with a stem that's about
half my "typical" length. Unfortunately, it still feels like quite a reach
to get on the hoods, not impossible, but not "normal". So, this is where my
question starts:

Do I continue to try shortening the stem, say to maybe 30-40mm, or do I
give in to my swept bar destiny and spring for some new bars? And if I go
with sweeps, which bars do people like on the Appa? I have 65mm Tosco bars
on my Gus and it's wonderful on that bike, but being that I don't want to
be quite so upright (and there's not quite as much room) on the Appa. I was
thinking of going with either Billie or Albatross bars. The two are so
similar, however, that I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. I'm
probably splitting hairs, as usual, but I'm genuinely curious to see what
y'all think.

Cheers,
-- 
Ted Wood < ted.l.w...@gmail.com >

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