Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
It was not as big a feature as we had hoped; merely a sidebar to a bike review where Jan briefly tried MKS Urban pedals with half clips and didn't like them. His earlier blog post had let us hope that they were going to do a study. Study or not, I have to say that I agree with Jan, to the point where I'd rather walk in SPDs than ride in street shoes. (If I have to put on special shoes for pedaling, I'd rather wear ones with cleats, and SPDs are my choice.) I briefly put the Urbans on the Dahon and hated them, which is odd because 5-10 years ago I used to like MKS GR-9s with clips and straps, and the Urbans are better than the GR-9s. On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:18 PM, George Schickwrote: > Now that Summer is long past, does anyone who subscribes to BQ have a > synopsis of what they found out about pedal retention usefulness that > they'd like to share? > > > On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 9:23:53 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: >> >> Doubtless of interest to RBW listers. Quoted from the Compass blog for >> those who don't read it or BQ. >> >> I'll be very interested myself, as someone hitherto convinced that >> retention is a great help. If tests show that retention doesn't help, I'd >> probably still keep retention on my fixed gears, for safety, and because >> they do undoubtedly allow pulling up for more torque when climbing steep >> hills, but would undoubtedly switch to platforms for my off road derailleur >> bike. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *Jayme Frye says:May 15, 2015 at 6:27 amI was with you up until SPD >> clipless pedals. I am not convinced there is any need for retention systems >> outside the ultra competitive world of pro cycling (primarily sprints). >> Perhaps you could use your testing methods on the claims that pedal >> retention systems are more efficient and allow the rider to produce more >> power by pulling up. That would make for a great BQ article.CheersReplyJan >> Heine, Editor, Bicycle Quarterly says:May 15, 2015 at 6:55 amWe did test >> this. It’s in the Summer issue, which will come out soon…Reply* >> >> -- >> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. >> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. >> Other professional writing services. >> http://www.resumespecialties.com/ >> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten >> >> * >> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a >> circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and >> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu >> >> *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle >> >> *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* Carthusian motto -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
"My summation is this : there is nothing to gain or lose regardless of any choice" Lack of any consequence to any decision might provide a disincentive to give any thought to the decision itself. Is this really what you meant to say? From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Garth Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 4:27 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue As always of course , everyone decides for themselves ! Just because "j. doe" says it is so does not make it so . I ride up all sorts of short steep hills over hill and dale in Crocs for goodness sakes . . .. which are essentially foam . Crocs slides even, not the clog style with the strap on back. . Bacǩ when I thought I was some-body with some-thing to prove, I had to have clipless. Now being no-body there is no-thing to prove to any-body . My summation is this : there is nothing to gain or lose regardless of any choice On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 10:28:41 AM UTC-4, Rod Holland wrote: Retentionless pedals work great on flat roads. Uphills, especially short rises, are easier when your feet are firmly attached to the pedals. As some of the folks on this thread have pointed out, there is a degree of rider familiarity with the equipment in play here; those of us who do this every day have hill climbing strategies, and that wasn't evaluated. This looks like an impression, made in good faith, not an exhaustive study. rod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com<mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Jan's point rang very true for me too. All data aside, my adult cycling experience grew out of self-conducted recovery from an injury that made my connection to the bike less Mark Cavendish or Keirin racers, more about how to manage my altered proprioception and all-around poise that came from a solid connection to the bike in all phases of riding, easy or hard. If you don't know your foot has floated off the pedal at TDC, characteristics of pedals and footwear really fade on your list of preferences. I just needed a way to keep that one on the pedal until the downstroke. Wore through several shoes' uppers with strap buckles before clipless (Patrick has a nice pair of my old cage/strap pedals). Better now, but I feel how completely, discretely ingrained my snapped-in foot connection is to everything involved in my physical act of pedaling and the resulting input it provides being my baseline. I shudder at the memory of places I rode my mountain bike in the '80s with clips and straps providing that necessary connection. Was a big fan of William Neely's illustrations of mountain biking skills, techniques (and consequences). His river guides were pretty awesome too. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 10:27:06 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: > > It was not as big a feature as we had hoped; merely a sidebar to a bike > review where Jan briefly tried MKS Urban pedals with half clips and didn't > like them. His earlier blog post had let us hope that they were going to do > a study. > > Study or not, I have to say that I agree with Jan, to the point where I'd > rather walk in SPDs than ride in street shoes. (If I have to put on special > shoes for pedaling, I'd rather wear ones with cleats, and SPDs are my > choice.) I briefly put the Urbans on the Dahon and hated them, which is odd > because 5-10 years ago I used to like MKS GR-9s with clips and straps, and > the Urbans are better than the GR-9s. > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:18 PM, George Schick> wrote: > >> Now that Summer is long past, does anyone who subscribes to BQ have a >> synopsis of what they found out about pedal retention usefulness that >> they'd like to share? >> >> >> On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 9:23:53 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: >>> >>> Doubtless of interest to RBW listers. Quoted from the Compass blog for >>> those who don't read it or BQ. >>> >>> I'll be very interested myself, as someone hitherto convinced that >>> retention is a great help. If tests show that retention doesn't help, I'd >>> probably still keep retention on my fixed gears, for safety, and because >>> they do undoubtedly allow pulling up for more torque when climbing steep >>> hills, but would undoubtedly switch to platforms for my off road derailleur >>> bike. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Jayme Frye says:May 15, 2015 at 6:27 amI was with you up until SPD >>> clipless pedals. I am not convinced there is any need for retention systems >>> outside the ultra competitive world of pro cycling (primarily sprints). >>> Perhaps you could use your testing methods on the claims that pedal >>> retention systems are more efficient and allow the rider to produce more >>> power by pulling up. That would make for a great BQ article.CheersReplyJan >>> Heine, Editor, Bicycle Quarterly says:May 15, 2015 at 6:55 amWe did test >>> this. It’s in the Summer issue, which will come out soon…Reply* >>> >>> -- >>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. >>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. >>> Other professional writing services. >>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/ >>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ >>> Patrick Moore >>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten >>> >>> * >>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a >>> circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and >>> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu >>> >>> *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle >>> >>> *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. > By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. > Other professional writing services. > http://www.resumespecialties.com/ > www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten > >
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
This just in: from the VO blog. Obviously rigorous, high and pure science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNedIJBZpgMfeature=youtu.be Seriously, if not exactly rigorous or pure, still interesting. (The rigor is at the level of the BQ observations: anecdotal, but still informative.) For my own particular purposes, the key remarks are at the end: forget racing, but when you ride fixed, or even if you tend to mash rather than spin, or hells, even when you are spinning hard as you accelerate, you not infrequently find yourself pulling up rather hard, or at least, pulling around with some energy. Certainly you do so when climbing steep hills, but also simply when accelerating, seated as well as standing, as when, sitting, you accelerate hard to make a light. At least, I myself *do* pedal in circles to some extent when, sprinting to make a light or trying vainly to impress onlookers. On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:28 AM, Richard rlh3...@gmail.com wrote: You said it Patrick, the ability to move ones feet while riding is a huge benefit. Even slight movements make a big difference. I don't get BQ's opening the lid analogy, nor do I understand this statement When my feet are firmly attached to the pedals, I may not actually pull up, but I am using the pedal that is moving upward as a fixed point to push against with my downstroke leg. What? How can the upward moving pedal be a fixed point to push against? I'm not against clipless, I used them for many years, but the arguments in favor of, aren't convincing to me anymore. I know I'm in the minority here, but switching to platform pedals with pins has changed my mind about the need for foot retention for any type of riding. Just my experience, take it with a grain of salt. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Steve wrote (and Patrick more added some interesting comments): Let's face it: those who like flat pedals - pedals without retention devices - aren't after performance gains that can be measured objectively. They're after comfort and convenience. Some riders can make them work quite effectively, and are happy to accept whatever objective performance deficits they may have. I have flat BMX pedals (albeit, without pins) on my shopper. I would never ride long distances on such a pedal: my feet slip off, and they often sit crooked on the pedals and I end up stepping on the crank arm or the chain stay. I'm very happy to have a pedal retention system take care of positioning my feet, while allowing me to lift my foot without worrying about it losing its place on the pedal or coming off entirely. I doubt the lifting of my feet substantially adds to power, as die hard advocates proclaim, but that's not the only reason to do it. I'm surprised this discussion has had so much staying power. It's a relatively trivial issue, as far as I'm concerned. ... I don´t know your respective bicycling history but methinks this is to a high degree a brain thing. When learning a new thing the brain grows new synapses to cope. This takes time. At age 46 I became obsessed with dancing; quick-step, tango, slowfox, rumba, chacha, that sort of thing, also lindy hop. Trained maybe 8-10 hours per week for some years. I´m not without talent but it took some three years before I could call myself a good dancer, the synapses had to grew first. The same with cycling. I started to ride intensively at age 5 and have never stopped (now 72). Didn´t meet retention until over 30. I´m a natural spinner and rides both roads and trails. On flat rubber pedals, never got enamoured by retention. This comes very natural and effortless. Can´t remember when a foot slipped. May it be that your brain over time grews connections to cope effectively with the system you´re using and that changing system can feel strange and inefficient for a long time, maybe years, until the new system literally grows on you? Olof Stroh Uppsala Sweden where it doesn´t get dark at night this time of the year -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Improper content reported. On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 5:28:04 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote: actually, this thread went to the toilet long ago, and Steve, you and Matthew J filled it On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 4:47:07 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: I'm surprised this discussion has had so much staying power. It's a relatively trivial issue, as far as I'm concerned. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
actually, this thread went to the toilet long ago, and Steve, you and Matthew J filled it On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 4:47:07 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: I'm surprised this discussion has had so much staying power. It's a relatively trivial issue, as far as I'm concerned. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Out for two hours this morning, tried to observe what I did. Found that I do lift my foot so that there is no pressure on the pedal, but foot still in kontakt with the pedal. On the flats and on the hills. Must be an automatic brain thing. And first time this year in only a t-shirt and shorts! Olof -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of olofst...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 8:56 AM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue Steve wrote (and Patrick more added some interesting comments): Let's face it: those who like flat pedals - pedals without retention devices - aren't after performance gains that can be measured objectively. They're after comfort and convenience. Some riders can make them work quite effectively, and are happy to accept whatever objective performance deficits they may have. I have flat BMX pedals (albeit, without pins) on my shopper. I would never ride long distances on such a pedal: my feet slip off, and they often sit crooked on the pedals and I end up stepping on the crank arm or the chain stay. I'm very happy to have a pedal retention system take care of positioning my feet, while allowing me to lift my foot without worrying about it losing its place on the pedal or coming off entirely. I doubt the lifting of my feet substantially adds to power, as die hard advocates proclaim, but that's not the only reason to do it. I'm surprised this discussion has had so much staying power. It's a relatively trivial issue, as far as I'm concerned. ... I don´t know your respective bicycling history but methinks this is to a high degree a brain thing. When learning a new thing the brain grows new synapses to cope. This takes time. At age 46 I became obsessed with dancing; quick-step, tango, slowfox, rumba, chacha, that sort of thing, also lindy hop. Trained maybe 8-10 hours per week for some years. I´m not without talent but it took some three years before I could call myself a good dancer, the synapses had to grew first. The same with cycling. I started to ride intensively at age 5 and have never stopped (now 72). Didn´t meet retention until over 30. I´m a natural spinner and rides both roads and trails. On flat rubber pedals, never got enamoured by retention. This comes very natural and effortless. Can´t remember when a foot slipped. May it be that your brain over time grews connections to cope effectively with the system you´re using and that changing system can feel strange and inefficient for a long time, maybe years, until the new system literally grows on you? Olof Stroh Uppsala Sweden where it doesn´t get dark at night this time of the year -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On 06/13/2015 02:56 AM, olofst...@gmail.com wrote: I started to ride intensively at age 5 and have never stopped (now 72). Didn´t meet retention until over 30. I´m a natural spinner and rides both roads and trails. On flat rubber pedals, never got enamoured by retention. This comes very natural and effortless. Can´t remember when a foot slipped. May it be that your brain over time grews connections to cope effectively with the system you´re using and that changing system can feel strange and inefficient for a long time, maybe years, until the new system literally grows on you? I rode flat rubber pedals when I was a kid. When I first got a derailleur bike in 1964 it had toe clips and straps. I rode with clips and straps for well over 20 years and then switched to clipless: first, Mavic Look-alikes with float, then SPDs. It's been around 24 years with clipless. I used retentionless pedals on my commuters for 15 years - first rubber 3-speed Raleigh pedals for 5 years, then MTB style that look like a bear trap for 10. I still bear scars from the raking those bear traps gave my shin one time when I kicked the pedal around a bit too enthusiastically, never having noticed that the occasional grounding on a sharp climbing 180 degree turn on the bike trail had sharpened them. So in 1995 I gave them up, and didn't try retentionless pedals again until 4 or 5 years ago. So, for me, lots and lots of experience with both types, and lots of disappointment with those BMX flatties Grant was so enthusiastic about when he was selling them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
It's a relatively trivial issue, as far as I'm concerned. Now that has never limited a thread, has it? Cheerfully, Edwin On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 4:47:07 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 06/12/2015 05:33 PM, Edwin W wrote: I think that Jan does a great job of disclosing and being honest in reviews AND having a business that runs on a certain kind of biking introduces a bias.. which is why he should disclose! It is impossible to measure this bias, we all have to work out in our mind how much he is biased. In my mind, things like the assessment of clipless pedal and going up short hills involves a grain of salt because it is not as rigorous as some of his other testing. A really good test would be to randomize a bunch of different kinds of cyclists to clipless and flats for each ride over a long period of time involving lots of different kinds of cycling and look at the average speeds with and without. But who is going to conduct that? What outcome would matter the most? Speed differential up a hill? Over a week of commuting? Over a year? Let's face it: those who like flat pedals - pedals without retention devices - aren't after performance gains that can be measured objectively. They're after comfort and convenience. Some riders can make them work quite effectively, and are happy to accept whatever objective performance deficits they may have. I have flat BMX pedals (albeit, without pins) on my shopper. I would never ride long distances on such a pedal: my feet slip off, and they often sit crooked on the pedals and I end up stepping on the crank arm or the chain stay. I'm very happy to have a pedal retention system take care of positioning my feet, while allowing me to lift my foot without worrying about it losing its place on the pedal or coming off entirely. I doubt the lifting of my feet substantially adds to power, as die hard advocates proclaim, but that's not the only reason to do it. I'm surprised this discussion has had so much staying power. It's a relatively trivial issue, as far as I'm concerned. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On 06/12/2015 05:33 PM, Edwin W wrote: I think that Jan does a great job of disclosing and being honest in reviews AND having a business that runs on a certain kind of biking introduces a bias.. which is why he should disclose! It is impossible to measure this bias, we all have to work out in our mind how much he is biased. In my mind, things like the assessment of clipless pedal and going up short hills involves a grain of salt because it is not as rigorous as some of his other testing. A really good test would be to randomize a bunch of different kinds of cyclists to clipless and flats for each ride over a long period of time involving lots of different kinds of cycling and look at the average speeds with and without. But who is going to conduct that? What outcome would matter the most? Speed differential up a hill? Over a week of commuting? Over a year? Let's face it: those who like flat pedals - pedals without retention devices - aren't after performance gains that can be measured objectively. They're after comfort and convenience. Some riders can make them work quite effectively, and are happy to accept whatever objective performance deficits they may have. I have flat BMX pedals (albeit, without pins) on my shopper. I would never ride long distances on such a pedal: my feet slip off, and they often sit crooked on the pedals and I end up stepping on the crank arm or the chain stay. I'm very happy to have a pedal retention system take care of positioning my feet, while allowing me to lift my foot without worrying about it losing its place on the pedal or coming off entirely. I doubt the lifting of my feet substantially adds to power, as die hard advocates proclaim, but that's not the only reason to do it. I'm surprised this discussion has had so much staying power. It's a relatively trivial issue, as far as I'm concerned. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On 06/12/2015 05:49 PM, Edwin W wrote: It's a relatively trivial issue, as far as I'm concerned. Now that has never limited a thread, has it? Well, that's certainly true. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Steve: Although I am someone who hasn't used non-retention pedals since 1970 (that's a wee bit hyperbolic but largely true) I have to weigh in for the other side and say that I, personally, have heard too much from riders with enough experience and certainly enough power output about the joys of non-retention, *and this for very competitive riding,* that I, personally, have to keep a bit of an open mind for the possibility that non-retention has real performance advantages. I mention again young Vaughn of local ss cyclocross fame and Bruce Boyson erstwhile of the Boblist. Bruce in particular is, from what I gathered, an experienced cyclist, not just a last-minute wonder with freakish power output despite self imposed obstacles. Once again, Bruce used to boast of leaving his clipped in, fully suspended, 3X10 peers in his single speed, rigid steel, flat-pedal dust. And he was 50 or so when I last heard him on the Boblist. I *know* that I gain torque from pulling up on the passive pedal while I torque down on the power pedal while pulling up hard on the bar. I am beginning to think, after trying the various puzzle pieces, that retentionless works best, even in performance situations, with low gearing, relatively high cadence, and relatively low torque. I may be wrong. So: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the ...Oh, wait: I, Patrick Moore, of ABQ, NM, pledge, promise, commit, and vow to try retentionless on a derailleur all rounder bike (Fargo, namely) for at least 200 miles of combined ABQ, NM pavement and sandy bosque riding, and to report my findings, results, conclusions, verdicts, pronouncements, and judgments to the list. Amen. Patrick Moore, who seriously proposes to do this, notwithstanding his otherwise intolerable flippancy, in ABQ, NM. On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: Let's face it: those who like flat pedals - pedals without retention devices - aren't after performance gains that can be measured objectively. They're after comfort and convenience. Some riders can make them work quite effectively, and are happy to accept whatever objective performance deficits they may have. I have flat BMX pedals (albeit, without pins) on my shopper. I would never ride long distances on such a pedal: my feet slip off, and they often sit crooked on the pedals and I end up stepping on the crank arm or the chain stay. I'm very happy to have a pedal retention system take care of positioning my feet, while allowing me to lift my foot without worrying about it losing its place on the pedal or coming off entirely. I doubt the lifting of my feet substantially adds to power, as die hard advocates proclaim, but that's not the only reason to do it. I'm surprised this discussion has had so much staying power. It's a relatively trivial issue, as far as I'm concerned. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Hahaha... made me On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 8:02:47 AM UTC-7, Rod Holland wrote: Anne, Sounds like the guy forgot to unclip his mouth from his Y chromosome... That causes any number of accidents... rod On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 10:09:13 AM UTC-4, Anne Paulson wrote: Is this mansplaining, or does this happen to you, too: I was out riding my Surly Krampus on some fire roads that are, to be honest, too steep for me. So I was doing a lot of walking. But that's OK, I don't mind walking. At the top, I came upon three guys who had ridden up the other side, the easy way. We got to chatting, and, as often happened, they asked me about my bike. I have flats on the bike. And then one of the guys took it upon himself to tell me I should start riding clipless. He explained that clipless would make my pedalling stronger, yadda, yadda. I answered politely, but I was furious. It should have been obvious to him that my bike was carefully chosen: it has 3 tires, a belt drive, a dynamo and a Rohloff hub. This is not a bike that one can can buy off the shop floor; it's a custom bike, and one that he should have realized I chose after careful consideration. Why, then, did he assume that a rider who had ridden for 40 years, and who had carefully chosen all the parts of her bike, would be ignorant of clipless pedals, and that somehow flats got on my bike by accident? Don't be a jerk. Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing. And don't assume that women automatically need the benefit of your superior knowledge. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Garth gart...@gmail.com wrote: good read : http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf from here : http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/ You don't have to change your mind and thinking nor can you truly . You can and do however . . . Understand :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
It's really a question of torque, not power. Like an old 20 hp tractor that can climb a wall (if it is using clipless pedals). On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 7:05 PM, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA benzouy...@gmail.com wrote: I'm a little late to this discussion, but can you please reconcile your claim about the lack of ability to put out power with BMX sprinting? These guys generate in excess of 1000 watts and don't have clipless pedals. They seem to be able to put down plenty of watts with very modest body weight. On Wednesday, June 3, 2015 at 11:07:49 AM UTC-7, Jan Heine wrote: I am sorry that there was a misperception that we did a detailed study of pedal retention. We tested a few pedals, both with and without retention, and the results were interesting. Whether a more rigorous study is needed when the results are so clear is another matter. To cite an even more extreme case: Do we also need a rigorous study to prove that a bike with flat tires rolls slower? I think it's pretty clear that during normal riding, retention makes little difference. Grant P. is right when he says that you don't pull up much, if at all. However, during short efforts on rolling terrain, it's obvious that you can pull up, and I did realize how much I do pull up when that ability was taken away. On the same bike and the same course, I suddenly needed to shift on the smallest hills, whereas usually, I just roll over them. And getting out of the saddle had no benefit, since I couldn't lever the bike with my lower foot as a fixed point. Suddenly, my power output was limited by my body weight... In the article, I compared it to opening the lid of a jar. If you hold the jar with one hand and the lid with the other, you can apply way more force than if you have your friend hold the jar while you turn the lid. Considering this, I am not sure I want to put our limited resources into a more sophisticated study. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly Seattle WA USA www.bikequarterly.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Clayton, I don't think your head should have been bitten off. It was a reasonable interrogatory. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On 06/11/2015 10:14 PM, 'clayton bailey' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote: Does he not own Rene Herse? And sell his own randoneur frames? I thought he did. H. You are wrong. He owns the Rene Herse name, but licenses it to Mike Kone of Boulder Bicycles for the Herse bicycle line. Clayton On Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:55 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On 06/11/2015 11:38 AM, 'Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote (speaking of Jan Heine): He seemed infer that judder in plastic bikes is incurable, but I think *he was just putting on a sales spin for his bikes.* What bikes would those be? Jan doesn't sell bikes at all. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
It's totally normal to be skeptical when a magazine also has a sister company that sells bicycle components... However, the reason Compass exists is because we at Bicycle Quarterly wanted to put our research into practice and make the parts that we want to ride on our own bikes. We cannot tell others what they should manufacture (and believe me, we have tried!), so we had to do it ourselves. It's that simple. The conflict of interest is best dealt with by being honest. So when the handlebar bag of a test bike that was held on with a Grand Bois decaleur we sell flew off during a fast gravel descent, of course, we reported it. When we found that the Grand Bois Ourson tires didn't perform appreciably better than the Panaracer Col de la Vie that used the same mold, we said so. Sure, we lost some sales at Compass, but the credibility of Bicycle Quarterly is far more important. And the Ourson tires were discontinued based on our research, and we replaced them with our own Compass Loup Loup Pass tires, which perform much better. And Compass Bicycles sells the MKS platform pedals and half-clips that I found to offer less optimal performance on short hills... If I was trying to boost sales, I would have said that the half-clips offer the same performance as clipless or full toeclips, and have quoted the Youtube study... To suspect that we talk about fork judder on carbon cyclocross forks only to boost sales of Rene Herse bikes is a bit far-fetched. For full disclosure, we do get a small licensing fee from Boulder Bicycles for every Rene Herse bike sold, but so few of these bikes are being made that it's totally insignificant, on par of what we make from selling Maxi-Car replacement axles. These are projects we do because we want to do them, not because they make money. We also do sell the wonderful Kaisei Toei Special fork blades, but again, I doubt many are sold to riders who'd otherwise buy a production carbon fork... The carbon fork issue (brake judder with cantilever brakes and a high-mounted cable hanger) has been reported in many magazines, but I believe we are the first who figured out what really is happening. It is simply a mismatch between very stout fork legs and a flexible steerer. Instead of getting the brake dive in the fork legs as the weight transfers forward during braking, you get flex in the steerer, which affects the tension of the brake cable, setting up a rhythmic oscillation. It can happen with any fork material, but it's predominant with carbon forks. I am sorry if that wasn't explained clearly enough in the article. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Jan, I apologize. I did not mean to offend anyone, and was totally mistaken about your connection to Rene Herse. Your connection to them in my mind, somehow became your brand, that you sold. However I stand by my brake comments. I had intense brake judder on my Specialized Crux, and it was cured by toe-in (regardless of the cause). Other forks may not have the same results, and using different brake pads could change things too. I use long Mt. bike Kool Stop salmon pads with great results. Cantilever brakes are all basically the same. They all need toe in, regardless of the fork material. You do a great job on your magazine and products and I can't blame anyone for marketing their products the best way they see fit.Clayton Bailey On Friday, June 12, 2015 7:31 AM, Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net wrote: It's totally normal to be skeptical when a magazine also has a sister company that sells bicycle components... However, the reason Compass exists is because we at Bicycle Quarterly wanted to put our research into practice and make the parts that we want to ride on our own bikes. We cannot tell others what they should manufacture (and believe me, we have tried!), so we had to do it ourselves. It's that simple. The conflict of interest is best dealt with by being honest. So when the handlebar bag of a test bike that was held on with a Grand Bois decaleur we sell flew off during a fast gravel descent, of course, we reported it. When we found that the Grand Bois Ourson tires didn't perform appreciably better than the Panaracer Col de la Vie that used the same mold, we said so. Sure, we lost some sales at Compass, but the credibility of Bicycle Quarterly is far more important. And the Ourson tires were discontinued based on our research, and we replaced them with our own Compass Loup Loup Pass tires, which perform much better. And Compass Bicycles sells the MKS platform pedals and half-clips that I found to offer less optimal performance on short hills... If I was trying to boost sales, I would have said that the half-clips offer the same performance as clipless or full toeclips, and have quoted the Youtube study... To suspect that we talk about fork judder on carbon cyclocross forks only to boost sales of Rene Herse bikes is a bit far-fetched. For full disclosure, we do get a small licensing fee from Boulder Bicycles for every Rene Herse bike sold, but so few of these bikes are being made that it's totally insignificant, on par of what we make from selling Maxi-Car replacement axles. These are projects we do because we want to do them, not because they make money. We also do sell the wonderful Kaisei Toei Special fork blades, but again, I doubt many are sold to riders who'd otherwise buy a production carbon fork... The carbon fork issue (brake judder with cantilever brakes and a high-mounted cable hanger) has been reported in many magazines, but I believe we are the first who figured out what really is happening. It is simply a mismatch between very stout fork legs and a flexible steerer. Instead of getting the brake dive in the fork legs as the weight transfers forward during braking, you get flex in the steerer, which affects the tension of the brake cable, setting up a rhythmic oscillation. It can happen with any fork material, but it's predominant with carbon forks. I am sorry if that wasn't explained clearly enough in the article. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/blwwAcVLtLQ/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
I thought the whole debate was that for unracers flat pedals are fine. From what I have read of his exploits, it doesn't surprise me that Jan gains some efficiency from being attached to the pedal. I don't think I do. I certainly fall into the unracer camp and will keep on doing what I have done since I was 5 - just ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
It's totally normal to be skeptical when a magazine also has a sister company that sells bicycle components... However, the reason Compass exists is because we at Bicycle Quarterly wanted to put our research into practice and make the parts that we want to ride on our own bikes. We cannot tell others what they should manufacture (and believe me, we have tried!), so we had to do it ourselves. It's that simple. Thank you Jan. I have always found your candor about your products benefits and limitations refreshing. And this from someone who prefers half clips matched to White pedals - performance be darned! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Just imagine how I made the real Patrick feel when I joined! Grin. With abandon, Patrick (who sometimes likes to look like the real Patrick by adding a long description to my signature just to mess with him. Grin.) On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 10:59:26 AM UTC-6, Clayton.sf wrote: Now we have two claytons! Will have to change my handle ;-) Clayton Scott SF, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Now we have two claytons! Will have to change my handle ;-) Clayton Scott SF, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Does he not own Rene Herse? And sell his own randoneur frames? I thought he did. H. Well, you are going to have to H a little bit longer and harder. While Jan owns the name and sells components with it, Rene Herse branded randonneur frames are made and sold by Mike Kone and Mark Nobilette (who used to and may still make some of the Riv forks by the way). Jan does not charge Mike to use the name for the bicycles. Definitely no bikes for sale on the Compass site. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
But its cool to bite Jan's head off for something he does not do. On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 8:49:06 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote: Clayton, I don't think your head should have been bitten off. It was a reasonable interrogatory. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Clayton, No apologies necessary. You are right that a lot of brake judder can be cured with toe-in adjustment. However, on these carbon forks, even the most extreme toe-in doesn't solve the problem - we tried everything (including toe-out, different pads, etc.). On our first long ride on that particular bike, we actually stopped multiple times adjusting the brakes (with several professional bike mechanics on the team, everybody felt that _they_ could cure the problem, even if the others couldn't). I am glad that your bike doesn't display the brake judder any longer, because it's annoying, and not something I'd gladly live with on a daily basis. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly On Friday, June 12, 2015 at 7:50:46 AM UTC-7, Clayton wrote: Jan, I apologize. I did not mean to offend anyone, and was totally mistaken about your connection to Rene Herse. Your connection to them in my mind, somehow became your brand, that you sold. However I stand by my brake comments. I had intense brake judder on my Specialized Crux, and it was cured by toe-in (regardless of the cause). Other forks may not have the same results, and using different brake pads could change things too. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
You said it Patrick, the ability to move ones feet while riding is a huge benefit. Even slight movements make a big difference. I don't get BQ's opening the lid analogy, nor do I understand this statement When my feet are firmly attached to the pedals, I may not actually pull up, but I am using the pedal that is moving upward as a fixed point to push against with my downstroke leg. What? How can the upward moving pedal be a fixed point to push against? I'm not against clipless, I used them for many years, but the arguments in favor of, aren't convincing to me anymore. I know I'm in the minority here, but switching to platform pedals with pins has changed my mind about the need for foot retention for any type of riding. Just my experience, take it with a grain of salt. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Boat shoes would probably be fine. I rode in Ralph Lauren fake All-Stars high-top sneakers today, with thin wool socks. VP-001s with pins. What BMX pedals are you getting? I have a pair of silver VP-001s coming for the Ross C-Line makeover, but I'd like to upgrade another bike as well from cage style mtb pedals. Philip www.biketinker.com On Thursday, June 11, 2015 at 1:31:47 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: Richard: thanks. You pushed me over the edge. I plan to try flatties on the Fargo, but next month or so, since I've just dropped huge on my car, roof, hvac, cleaning, etc. Vaughn at Stevie's recommended some polycarbonate pedals list $22 that he says are fine and used by the BMX periti. So $25 w/tax is no problem. *And* they come in the designer color of your choice. The additional expense, ironically in view of the no shoes ruze, is that I need special shoes, and for this I'd like some advice. I need closed shoes, not the boat shoes or sandals I prefer in summer; and of my closed shoes with rubber soles, I have a beat up pair of safari boots -- too hot; and a pair of nice oxfords with lugged treads -- too nice. So, recommend unto me the cheapest possible shoe -- Target? Payless? -- that will work sufficiently well with these pedals to give me, after a month or so, a sufficiently true idea of how flatties work. If someone has some to sell, I wear 44s. For singletrack or other dicey riding situations, I can easily imagine how no retention would be liberating, esp as I have never been particularly coordinated. (For a while in the early '90s I rode singletrack with slotted cleats, Specialized shoes with cross-type cleats; I no longer have those skills.) On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:28 AM, Richard rlh...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: You said it Patrick, the ability to move ones feet while riding is a huge benefit. Even slight movements make a big difference. I don't get BQ's opening the lid analogy, nor do I understand this statement When my feet are firmly attached to the pedals, I may not actually pull up, but I am using the pedal that is moving upward as a fixed point to push against with my downstroke leg. What? How can the upward moving pedal be a fixed point to push against? I'm not against clipless, I used them for many years, but the arguments in favor of, aren't convincing to me anymore. I know I'm in the minority here, but switching to platform pedals with pins has changed my mind about the need for foot retention for any type of riding. Just my experience, take it with a grain of salt. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Patrick, 5-10 sneakers have been my favorites for years. I save a bunch of dough buying the close out models from the 5-10 web site at http://shopfiveten.com/C-44/Bike I especially like the ones with the sticky rubber soles because they grip even better when the pedals soles get wet. John On Thursday, June 11, 2015 at 1:31:47 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: Richard: thanks. You pushed me over the edge. I plan to try flatties on the Fargo, but next month or so, since I've just dropped huge on my car, roof, hvac, cleaning, etc. Vaughn at Stevie's recommended some polycarbonate pedals list $22 that he says are fine and used by the BMX periti. So $25 w/tax is no problem. *And* they come in the designer color of your choice. The additional expense, ironically in view of the no shoes ruze, is that I need special shoes, and for this I'd like some advice. I need closed shoes, not the boat shoes or sandals I prefer in summer; and of my closed shoes with rubber soles, I have a beat up pair of safari boots -- too hot; and a pair of nice oxfords with lugged treads -- too nice. So, recommend unto me the cheapest possible shoe -- Target? Payless? -- that will work sufficiently well with these pedals to give me, after a month or so, a sufficiently true idea of how flatties work. If someone has some to sell, I wear 44s. For singletrack or other dicey riding situations, I can easily imagine how no retention would be liberating, esp as I have never been particularly coordinated. (For a while in the early '90s I rode singletrack with slotted cleats, Specialized shoes with cross-type cleats; I no longer have those skills.) On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:28 AM, Richard rlh...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: You said it Patrick, the ability to move ones feet while riding is a huge benefit. Even slight movements make a big difference. I don't get BQ's opening the lid analogy, nor do I understand this statement When my feet are firmly attached to the pedals, I may not actually pull up, but I am using the pedal that is moving upward as a fixed point to push against with my downstroke leg. What? How can the upward moving pedal be a fixed point to push against? I'm not against clipless, I used them for many years, but the arguments in favor of, aren't convincing to me anymore. I know I'm in the minority here, but switching to platform pedals with pins has changed my mind about the need for foot retention for any type of riding. Just my experience, take it with a grain of salt. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Richard: thanks. You pushed me over the edge. I plan to try flatties on the Fargo, but next month or so, since I've just dropped huge on my car, roof, hvac, cleaning, etc. Vaughn at Stevie's recommended some polycarbonate pedals list $22 that he says are fine and used by the BMX periti. So $25 w/tax is no problem. *And* they come in the designer color of your choice. The additional expense, ironically in view of the no shoes ruze, is that I need special shoes, and for this I'd like some advice. I need closed shoes, not the boat shoes or sandals I prefer in summer; and of my closed shoes with rubber soles, I have a beat up pair of safari boots -- too hot; and a pair of nice oxfords with lugged treads -- too nice. So, recommend unto me the cheapest possible shoe -- Target? Payless? -- that will work sufficiently well with these pedals to give me, after a month or so, a sufficiently true idea of how flatties work. If someone has some to sell, I wear 44s. For singletrack or other dicey riding situations, I can easily imagine how no retention would be liberating, esp as I have never been particularly coordinated. (For a while in the early '90s I rode singletrack with slotted cleats, Specialized shoes with cross-type cleats; I no longer have those skills.) On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:28 AM, Richard rlh3...@gmail.com wrote: You said it Patrick, the ability to move ones feet while riding is a huge benefit. Even slight movements make a big difference. I don't get BQ's opening the lid analogy, nor do I understand this statement When my feet are firmly attached to the pedals, I may not actually pull up, but I am using the pedal that is moving upward as a fixed point to push against with my downstroke leg. What? How can the upward moving pedal be a fixed point to push against? I'm not against clipless, I used them for many years, but the arguments in favor of, aren't convincing to me anymore. I know I'm in the minority here, but switching to platform pedals with pins has changed my mind about the need for foot retention for any type of riding. Just my experience, take it with a grain of salt. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Patrick, I think you'll love flatties. Plastic ones will do, just make sure they have pins on the flats. Your feet will never slip, even when wet. You really don't need special shoes for platforms. For hot summer days I ride in sandals, and sneakers in the cooler months. Try to find ones with a stiff sole. I can't tell you how liberating it was to dump my clipless shoes and pedals. Again, just my experience. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
there is no question with platform pedals you give up pull with a high-rev spin up hills. But for me, the advantages of foot placement flexibility along with instant ingress and egress more than make up for it. If you're grunting on a 70-inch gear, you should stand up anyway and lose the pull regardless. On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 2:56:20 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: I shall have to try it. But what about *really* steep hills? I find that I not only pull down on the bar, but pull up on the pedal. Would losing the last be a handicap? I mean such occasions as grunting a 40 lb load up a very steep 1/4 to 1/2 mile hill up the side of a mesa in a 70 gear. Again, street shoes with straps didn't cut it. Pulling up is required (for me) for the steepest parts -- I think; that's what I need to test again. Tho' I'm getting to old not to get off an walk in such instances ... On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 1:52 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com javascript: wrote: Retention free works high or low cadence for me. When I read Jan's jar lid example, I thought Uh, pedal/handlebar does the same thing so I personally suspect less difference in efficiency than retention vs. body weight only. I'm not limited to my body weight on the downstroke when pulling up on my handlebars. With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 12:56:08 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote: I wonder if no-retention works best if you pedal small gears at a highish cadence, rather than if you mash. Can anyone comment on this? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
I pull up especially when I'm grunting up a hill at very low cadence, which of course means standing and hauling on the bar. I'll see how much torque I lose with clipless-less-ness. Need closed shoes because of dirt and pebbles. Will look at 5-10 and also atGoodwill. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 11, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Ron Mc bulldog...@gmail.com wrote: there is no question with platform pedals you give up pull with a high-rev spin up hills. But for me, the advantages of foot placement flexibility along with instant ingress and egress more than make up for it. If you're grunting on a 70-inch gear, you should stand up anyway and lose the pull regardless. On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 2:56:20 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: I shall have to try it. But what about really steep hills? I find that I not only pull down on the bar, but pull up on the pedal. Would losing the last be a handicap? I mean such occasions as grunting a 40 lb load up a very steep 1/4 to 1/2 mile hill up the side of a mesa in a 70 gear. Again, street shoes with straps didn't cut it. Pulling up is required (for me) for the steepest parts -- I think; that's what I need to test again. Tho' I'm getting to old not to get off an walk in such instances ... On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 1:52 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com wrote: Retention free works high or low cadence for me. When I read Jan's jar lid example, I thought Uh, pedal/handlebar does the same thing so I personally suspect less difference in efficiency than retention vs. body weight only. I'm not limited to my body weight on the downstroke when pulling up on my handlebars. With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 12:56:08 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote: I wonder if no-retention works best if you pedal small gears at a highish cadence, rather than if you mash. Can anyone comment on this? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang Tzu Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. Aristotle The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Does he not own Rene Herse? And sell his own randoneur frames? I thought he did. H. Clayton On Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:55 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On 06/11/2015 11:38 AM, 'Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote (speaking of Jan Heine): He seemed infer that judder in plastic bikes is incurable, but I think he was just putting on a sales spin for his bikes. What bikes would those be? Jan doesn't sell bikes at all. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/blwwAcVLtLQ/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On 06/11/2015 11:38 AM, 'Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote (speaking of Jan Heine): He seemed infer that judder in plastic bikes is incurable, but I think *he was just putting on a sales spin for his bikes.* What bikes would those be? Jan doesn't sell bikes at all. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Patrick, one of my favorite shoes I used back in my toe clip days, are skate shoes. They have grippy soles, padded toes and tongues and you can find them cheap at Payless or Target. However, currently my faves are 510s paired with big mountain bike pinned flats. They stick so well, that with a little technique you can lift the back of the bike. I no longer fear catching air and having my feet fly off. Not being clipped in has let me ride in situations I would have gotten off and walked in the past. It took awhile to adjust, but man, it was worth it. Claytonious On Thursday, June 11, 2015 1:31 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Richard: thanks. You pushed me over the edge. I plan to try flatties on the Fargo, but next month or so, since I've just dropped huge on my car, roof, hvac, cleaning, etc. Vaughn at Stevie's recommended some polycarbonate pedals list $22 that he says are fine and used by the BMX periti. So $25 w/tax is no problem. And they come in the designer color of your choice. The additional expense, ironically in view of the no shoes ruze, is that I need special shoes, and for this I'd like some advice. I need closed shoes, not the boat shoes or sandals I prefer in summer; and of my closed shoes with rubber soles, I have a beat up pair of safari boots -- too hot; and a pair of nice oxfords with lugged treads -- too nice. So, recommend unto me the cheapest possible shoe -- Target? Payless? -- that will work sufficiently well with these pedals to give me, after a month or so, a sufficiently true idea of how flatties work. If someone has some to sell, I wear 44s. For singletrack or other dicey riding situations, I can easily imagine how no retention would be liberating, esp as I have never been particularly coordinated. (For a while in the early '90s I rode singletrack with slotted cleats, Specialized shoes with cross-type cleats; I no longer have those skills.) On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:28 AM, Richard rlh3...@gmail.com wrote: You said it Patrick, the ability to move ones feet while riding is a huge benefit. Even slight movements make a big difference. I don't get BQ's opening the lid analogy, nor do I understand this statement When my feet are firmly attached to the pedals, I may not actually pull up, but I am using the pedal that is moving upward as a fixed point to push against with my downstroke leg. What? How can the upward moving pedal be a fixed point to push against? I'm not against clipless, I used them for many years, but the arguments in favor of, aren't convincing to me anymore. I know I'm in the minority here, but switching to platform pedals with pins has changed my mind about the need for foot retention for any type of riding. Just my experience, take it with a grain of salt. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick MooreAlburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. Chuang TzuKinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. Aristotle The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/blwwAcVLtLQ/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
I wonder if no-retention works best if you pedal small gears at a highish cadence, rather than if you mash. Can anyone comment on this? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
I have no idea, Patrick. I ride the steep in SS but not with the weight you're talking about. And don't know how much I'd notice the ability to lift up on the rear pedal. With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 1:56:20 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote: I shall have to try it. But what about *really* steep hills? I find that I not only pull down on the bar, but pull up on the pedal. Would losing the last be a handicap? I mean such occasions as grunting a 40 lb load up a very steep 1/4 to 1/2 mile hill up the side of a mesa in a 70 gear. Again, street shoes with straps didn't cut it. Pulling up is required (for me) for the steepest parts -- I think; that's what I need to test again. Tho' I'm getting to old not to get off an walk in such instances ... On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 1:52 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com javascript: wrote: Retention free works high or low cadence for me. When I read Jan's jar lid example, I thought Uh, pedal/handlebar does the same thing so I personally suspect less difference in efficiency than retention vs. body weight only. I'm not limited to my body weight on the downstroke when pulling up on my handlebars. With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 12:56:08 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote: I wonder if no-retention works best if you pedal small gears at a highish cadence, rather than if you mash. Can anyone comment on this? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Retention free works high or low cadence for me. When I read Jan's jar lid example, I thought Uh, pedal/handlebar does the same thing so I personally suspect less difference in efficiency than retention vs. body weight only. I'm not limited to my body weight on the downstroke when pulling up on my handlebars. With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 12:56:08 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote: I wonder if no-retention works best if you pedal small gears at a highish cadence, rather than if you mash. Can anyone comment on this? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
It makes zero difference to me :) I ride on the flats, sometime spinning sometimes mashing. Up the ubiquitous 20 something percent climbs , both seated and standing , makes no difference to me . I wonder how I put up with riding rock hard boards called cycling shoes for so long . My feet have never slipped of my pedals Wellgo MG-1's and now I wear Croc slide sandals . As Clayton mention in his post, it takes undeterminable time for one to adjust to riding in flat pedals, if ever. To just hop on a bike with flat pedals(or vice versa) and called it a test really defeats the spirit of the intention. Do I want the truth or not ? This is an issue with no one but within oneself . What's good for me ? To extend that choice to others as if they ought to be doing it too , yes we've all done it in our enthusiasm for what we like . but truly to each distinctively their own . These distinctions are ever cultivated and celebrated :) BTW, there is test on youtube by some well known British guys who had a racer in a lab on rollers and tested him with flat pedals for any physiological differences . They were essentially the same, with flat pedals being slightly more efficient physically. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNedIJBZpgM On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 2:56:08 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: I wonder if no-retention works best if you pedal small gears at a highish cadence, rather than if you mash. Can anyone comment on this? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Of course after the test it was agreed that for racing, clipless is more practical and safe , with the violent efforts and all. So again, whatever suits your style :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
I shall have to try it. But what about *really* steep hills? I find that I not only pull down on the bar, but pull up on the pedal. Would losing the last be a handicap? I mean such occasions as grunting a 40 lb load up a very steep 1/4 to 1/2 mile hill up the side of a mesa in a 70 gear. Again, street shoes with straps didn't cut it. Pulling up is required (for me) for the steepest parts -- I think; that's what I need to test again. Tho' I'm getting to old not to get off an walk in such instances ... On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 1:52 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote: Retention free works high or low cadence for me. When I read Jan's jar lid example, I thought Uh, pedal/handlebar does the same thing so I personally suspect less difference in efficiency than retention vs. body weight only. I'm not limited to my body weight on the downstroke when pulling up on my handlebars. With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 12:56:08 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote: I wonder if no-retention works best if you pedal small gears at a highish cadence, rather than if you mash. Can anyone comment on this? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Deacon: thanks. To turn the question around (for everyone): what are the *advantages* of riding no retention? I discount the reason given as no need for special shoes since I certainly wouldn't be cycling fixed or off road no-retention in Bass Weejuns on Tony Lamas or, for that matter, in Sperry Topsiders. So, allowing that you are going to need special shoes of one sort or another, what are the benefits? Perhaps there will be confirmation of the study finding that no retention takes less energy, but leave that out for the time being. Patrick Moore, who just now cranked a 75 gear up a very steep 4/10 mile long hill up the mesa to Rio Rancho (behind Don Chalmers Ford), but with no load, and very definitely pulled up hard on the bar and pulled up hard on the pedals, though the tailwind provided at least psychological assistance. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
And I am not secretly and snidely asserting that retention is better*. If no retention is proved to be more efficient, I'll drop my Keos and SPDs in a NY minute. But I *am* skeptical, since cycling and its related technology is after all very mature, and foot retention dates back well over 100 years. * I mean better in every way. Of course no retention has obvious benefits in freedom of movement on the pedal. My own take at the moment is that, like planing, high bars, wide bars, low bars, narrow bars, wide saddles, narrow saddles, front loading, rear loading, what have you, it is largely a matter of taste and riding style and type. On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Deacon: thanks. To turn the question around (for everyone): what are the *advantages* of riding no retention? I discount the reason given as no need for special shoes since I certainly wouldn't be cycling fixed or off road no-retention in Bass Weejuns on Tony Lamas or, for that matter, in Sperry Topsiders. So, allowing that you are going to need special shoes of one sort or another, what are the benefits? Perhaps there will be confirmation of the study finding that no retention takes less energy, but leave that out for the time being. Patrick Moore, who just now cranked a 75 gear up a very steep 4/10 mile long hill up the mesa to Rio Rancho (behind Don Chalmers Ford), but with no load, and very definitely pulled up hard on the bar and pulled up hard on the pedals, though the tailwind provided at least psychological assistance. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Just Ride . . . . . and keep smiling Patrick Moore :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Riding flats well after years of clip less is not something that happens over night. Different technique is needed and that comes with regular use. Quickly jumping on flats for a ride and drawing conclusions is likely too hasty an approach. Clayton Scott SF, CA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On 06/08/2015 12:02 PM, Garth wrote: What is everyone expecting ? Stating the obvious , whatever one chooses to use for pedals , let alone anything , they'll seek and find justification from wherever they can get it to support their choice, or they make up their own evidence . *No scientific study is or can be Absolutely objective, ever ! * Oh, really? I remember seeing absolutely objective scientific studies often on Star Trek. Dr. McCoy would examine red shirted crew member and pronounce: This man is dead, Jim! Can't get more absolutely objective than that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Just Ride . . . and Smile :) On Monday, June 8, 2015 at 12:23:37 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-refuting_idea On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Garth gart...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: What is everyone expecting ? Stating the obvious , whatever one chooses to use for pedals , let alone anything , they'll seek and find justification from wherever they can get it to support their choice, or they make up their own evidence . *No scientific study is or can be Absolutely objective, ever ! * As in A Few Good Men .. Q= I want the Truth ! (wanting the Absolute Truth) A= You can't handle the Truth (Absolute) Man's science can't handle the Truth Absolute. So . . . . it always kinda comes down to . . . . Just Ride . . . .and Smile :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Why haven't I received my copy??? I want it!! I had hoped this article reported a scientific study, but even if it don't, it will be interesting to read others' experiences on the matter. Me, riding fixed or, when using gears, not using them a great deal, I find that I do pull up hard on hills and pedal in circles with some energy (scare quotes because I know it's really not true circles) when I want a little extra power to crest a rise or when I turn into a wind. I liked clips and straps with Bass, Sperry, Timberland boat-type shoes, but found that, when climbing hills hard, I would pull my shoes out of the straps or, often, my feet out of the shoes. Slotted cleats avoided this, but then why not just use clipless? OTOH, Bruce Boyson (was he ever on this list? He used to be on the iBoblist), who apparently is a ss off roader of some mileage and competence, described leaving his multigeared, clipped-in, suspended friends behind on tough singletrack using platform pedals, and young Vaughn at Stevie's, who is strong enough to be competitive in local cyclocross, says platforms don't slow him down at all on his ss's, uphill or on 35 mph rough dirt downhills. On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Brian Hefferan brian...@gmail.com wrote: I like the two hands opening a jar lid analogy. Is power output really limited by the rider's body weight when using platform pedals, though? It seems that by pulling hard on the handlebars in rhythm with the pedal stroke, some of that force of can be added to the downward leg thrust. The arms pulling the bars would be analogous to the hand holding the jar while the lid is twisted off. I do feel a big boost powering up hills when I pull with my biceps. While it doesn't feel as smooth as pulling with the leg during the pedal upstroke, I don't see how it would be less efficient. I seem to get up most hills about as well either way, steep ones excepted. Brian Hefferan Lansing, Michigan On Wednesday, June 3, 2015 at 2:07:49 PM UTC-4, Jan Heine wrote: I am sorry that there was a misperception that we did a detailed study of pedal retention. We tested a few pedals, both with and without retention, and the results were interesting. Whether a more rigorous study is needed when the results are so clear is another matter. To cite an even more extreme case: Do we also need a rigorous study to prove that a bike with flat tires rolls slower? I think it's pretty clear that during normal riding, retention makes little difference. Grant P. is right when he says that you don't pull up much, if at all. However, during short efforts on rolling terrain, it's obvious that you can pull up, and I did realize how much I do pull up when that ability was taken away. On the same bike and the same course, I suddenly needed to shift on the smallest hills, whereas usually, I just roll over them. And getting out of the saddle had no benefit, since I couldn't lever the bike with my lower foot as a fixed point. Suddenly, my power output was limited by my body weight... In the article, I compared it to opening the lid of a jar. If you hold the jar with one hand and the lid with the other, you can apply way more force than if you have your friend hold the jar while you turn the lid. Considering this, I am not sure I want to put our limited resources into a more sophisticated study. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly Seattle WA USA www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ On Wednesday, June 3, 2015 at 9:28:39 AM UTC-7, Jayme Frye wrote: Received my summer issue of BQ. I am disappointed with the published test. Not that the test does not support my position but that it was a seat-of-the-pants test. I was expecting/hoping for power outputs, VO2 charts, lactate threshold kinds of data. This is what I would expect from the BQ crew given all the rigor applied to tire testing. Jayme -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
From this distance, I'm still in awe of Anne's bike. But I had one of the best chats with a couple of roadies at yesterday's halfway stop that I can ever remember. These guys had followed me on my upright for 8 miles before they gained momentum to pass. As we came out of the creek bottom with its protective cypress tunnel, onto the open fields and headwind of the flood plain, they distanced me pretty good. I caught them at the highway intersection, and stayed pretty close up the 2-mi hill at least until I neared the shallower slope at the top and again, the teeth of the headwind. When I landed at the county park for a water break, they were stretching out, about to load their bikes and wanted to talk about mine. If I have anything to brag about on this bike, it's the gearing, five single step cogs 12-16, then 4 wide steps, 18-21-24-29. Compact double crank, 42/25T. But I have narrow steps where we live, 60 to 85 and can find a cruising gear for any condition and pace, and, likewise, have great choices on the small ring, narrow steps below 55 all the way down to 23. When I ride from home, every ride ends with a 400' climb that includes some 14% grade. These guys have been riding out here a long time, know the area and the climbs. Their one defense was throwing out how heavy my bike must be. I explained to them it wasn't that bad, and that's OK - everybody wants to believe their own choices have merit - and they do. On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 10:13:27 AM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: I don't want to get into an argument about whether a guy of my age would have gotten the same comments about clipless pedals. Maybe, maybe not. And I certainly believe that the comments were well-intentioned. But Will, I think you're missing the point. It's not about the cost of the item; it's about how out of the mainstream it is. Some bikes are more obviously intentional than other bikes. It's easy to end up with a $5K carbon bike; if you walk into a bike store with $5K and a desire for an expensive bike, you are not unlikely to walk out with a $5K racing-style carbon bike. That'll be the default, in many cases. There is nothing unusual about a $5K carbon bike, at least where I live. Someone could have one because they carefully evaluated all the alternatives and deliberately chose exactly what was on their bike, but they could also have one because they got the thing that people buy. The same is true for an expensive Graco stroller; it's expensive, but nobody has to go out of their way to buy a Graco stroller. On the other hand, some bikes are clearly chosen. If I see someone touring on a generic Surly Long Haul Trucker, well, that's a pretty common bike to tour on. But if I see someone touring on a singlespeed 'cross bike, I'm going to figure they chose to tour on a singlespeed 'cross bike, and I'm not going to tell them they should consider using gears. I might have a long and interesting discussion about the merits of gears versus singlespeed when bike touring, but I'm not going to assume that they're riding a singlespeed because they never heard of gears before. I always enjoy looking at individualized bikes, and talking to their owners about why they made the choices they did. It's one thing that's fun about meeting up with other Rivendell riders. Here's the baby example: if you were changing the baby, and a woman noticed you were using cloth diapers, would you like it if she started telling you about disposable diapers? That would be annoying. People who use cloth diapers chose cloth diapers. And people on bikes with Rohloff hubs, Gates belts, dynamos and flat pedals chose flat pedals. But other On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 7:35 AM, Will waller@gmail.com javascript: wrote: That's true. But when I walked the babies I didn't think the advice that I received was ill-intentioned, nor did I get into a gender wrangle with it (or post to a use-group). The second point is: do not assume that your bike's (or stroller's) setup implies credibility. I have seen lots of folks riding expensive carbon bikes that don't make sense (to me). Does the fact that they are riding a 5K bike mean they have a clue? -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-refuting_idea On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: What is everyone expecting ? Stating the obvious , whatever one chooses to use for pedals , let alone anything , they'll seek and find justification from wherever they can get it to support their choice, or they make up their own evidence . *No scientific study is or can be Absolutely objective, ever ! * As in A Few Good Men .. Q= I want the Truth ! (wanting the Absolute Truth) A= You can't handle the Truth (Absolute) Man's science can't handle the Truth Absolute. So . . . . it always kinda comes down to . . . . Just Ride . . . .and Smile :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
To illustrate what I find odd in Mike's post (below) I'll suggest the following modification of it. To be clear, this is suggested merely to illustrate a point and possibly foster useful discussion. On the lugged steel wannabe retro grouches... I see at least a dozen a day. I live in an aging upper middle class neighborhood and they ride their bikes to the coffee shop all day long. Highend custom steel bike with flat pedals and running shoes and mirrors. At least they don't have those goofy plaid bicycle bags! I'm glad they are out riding but the need to belong is strong. Cheers and safe riding! -Jack On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 5:49:05 PM UTC-4, Mike Schiller wrote: Huh? I didn't say I ride an upright bike. On all 3 of my low trail custom's I have drop bars a inch or so below the saddle. I was referring to Mr P. On the carbon wannabe racers... I see at least a dozen a day. I live along the coast in SoCal and they ride their bikes up and down all day long. Carbon bike with flat pedals and running shoes and mirrors. At least they don't have those goofy interrupter brake levers! I'm glad they are out riding but the need to belong is strong. ~mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Perhaps Hanlon's Razor applies to this sticky situation: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
What's being debated is gender-based knowledge. Off topic for the list, no doubt, but mansplaining is definitely a well-documented phenomena. And while there certainly may be anecdotal counter narratives* of womansplaining, I find it incredibly hard to believe such activity comes anywhere near its male equivalent. Finally, well into the 21st Century, infant care in the United States for better or worse is still seen by a large majority as primarily a female activity. Cycling on the other hand is clearly gender neutral. Women are involved with cycling at its most competitive levels to just having fund on a sunny weekend. The analogy between a stroller and a bike is a big jump. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On 05/18/2015 11:13 AM, Anne Paulson wrote: On the other hand, some bikes are clearly chosen. If I see someone touring on a generic Surly Long Haul Trucker, well, that's a pretty common bike to tour on. But if I see someone touring on a singlespeed 'cross bike, I'm going to figure they chose to tour on a singlespeed 'cross bike, and I'm not going to tell them they should consider using gears. I might have a long and interesting discussion about the merits of gears versus singlespeed when bike touring, but I'm not going to assume that they're riding a singlespeed because they never heard of gears before. I always enjoy looking at individualized bikes, and talking to their owners about why they made the choices they did. It's one thing that's fun about meeting up with other Rivendell riders. But you are experienced, intelligent and wise. You are not in the first flush of new conversion, brimming over with new knowledge, new truths and full of certainty, recently assimilated from an intensive study of bike magazines, etc. Some of these people, like new converts to any religion or enthusiasm, cannot help being jerks. I suspect it is not -- or at least, not entirely -- gender-based, because it definitely does happen to out-of-the-mainstream men too. I'm sure when they look at something out of the norm they do not see a carefully chosen solution based on experience; they see someone who hasn't gotten The Word yet. I have had people on a long ride in the middle of a torrential downpour stand there and tell me that my fenders are worthless, and this after they have been riding inside of a rooster tail in a pace line for a couple of hours. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
That's true. But when I walked the babies I didn't think the advice that I received was ill-intentioned, nor did I get into a gender wrangle with it (or post to a use-group). I listened and hoped to learn something. Mostly I didn't (learn anything). But the point is: gender knowledge isn't uniformly distributed. The second point is: do not assume that your bike's (or stroller's) setup implies credibility. I have seen lots of folks riding expensive carbon bikes that don't make sense (to me). Does the fact that they are riding a 5K bike mean they have a clue? Answer = NO. So whether pedals were his business or not isn't what is being debated. What's being debated is gender-based knowledge. Will On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 9:05:09 AM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote: It might simply be that the young man believed that clip-in pedals were more efficient. Whatever the rider thought, it was none of his business. On point - I tour with half clips and don't wear cycle specific clothing when touring. Two years back on a couple day tour from LaCrosse, Wi to Chicago stopped at a lunch spot in a small town a couple spandexed cleat wearing fellows were telling me my ride and attire really don't work for long distance riding. My statement - 'Yet here I am.' did not seem to convince them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
I don't want to get into an argument about whether a guy of my age would have gotten the same comments about clipless pedals. Maybe, maybe not. And I certainly believe that the comments were well-intentioned. But Will, I think you're missing the point. It's not about the cost of the item; it's about how out of the mainstream it is. Some bikes are more obviously intentional than other bikes. It's easy to end up with a $5K carbon bike; if you walk into a bike store with $5K and a desire for an expensive bike, you are not unlikely to walk out with a $5K racing-style carbon bike. That'll be the default, in many cases. There is nothing unusual about a $5K carbon bike, at least where I live. Someone could have one because they carefully evaluated all the alternatives and deliberately chose exactly what was on their bike, but they could also have one because they got the thing that people buy. The same is true for an expensive Graco stroller; it's expensive, but nobody has to go out of their way to buy a Graco stroller. On the other hand, some bikes are clearly chosen. If I see someone touring on a generic Surly Long Haul Trucker, well, that's a pretty common bike to tour on. But if I see someone touring on a singlespeed 'cross bike, I'm going to figure they chose to tour on a singlespeed 'cross bike, and I'm not going to tell them they should consider using gears. I might have a long and interesting discussion about the merits of gears versus singlespeed when bike touring, but I'm not going to assume that they're riding a singlespeed because they never heard of gears before. I always enjoy looking at individualized bikes, and talking to their owners about why they made the choices they did. It's one thing that's fun about meeting up with other Rivendell riders. Here's the baby example: if you were changing the baby, and a woman noticed you were using cloth diapers, would you like it if she started telling you about disposable diapers? That would be annoying. People who use cloth diapers chose cloth diapers. And people on bikes with Rohloff hubs, Gates belts, dynamos and flat pedals chose flat pedals. But other On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 7:35 AM, Will waller.will...@gmail.com wrote: That's true. But when I walked the babies I didn't think the advice that I received was ill-intentioned, nor did I get into a gender wrangle with it (or post to a use-group). The second point is: do not assume that your bike's (or stroller's) setup implies credibility. I have seen lots of folks riding expensive carbon bikes that don't make sense (to me). Does the fact that they are riding a 5K bike mean they have a clue? -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
It might simply be that the young man believed that clip-in pedals were more efficient. Whatever the rider thought, it was none of his business. On point - I tour with half clips and don't wear cycle specific clothing when touring. Two years back on a couple day tour from LaCrosse, Wi to Chicago stopped at a lunch spot in a small town a couple spandexed cleat wearing fellows were telling me my ride and attire really don't work for long distance riding. My statement - 'Yet here I am.' did not seem to convince them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Yanking the thread back to retentionless, Vaughn, the you 20-something mechanic as Stevie's says he rides nothing but platforms (what *is* the proper term for pedals with grippy flats but no clip mech? Non-no-clips?) and feels fully confident bombing at 35 mph down very rough tracks. He also says he finds it no hindrance for applying power in climbs. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
I think the incident was a huge opportunity for a magnificent put-down, something along the lines of, Joe Blow of Surly and I conferred about this build, and we both agreed with Tom Ritchey and Keith Bontrager that flat pedals work best for this setup. I must say it works for me; my last 3 customs weren't nearly as nice. Of course, the dork probably started riding in 2012 and doesn't know Ritchey or Bontrager from Graco. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 7:53 AM, Will waller.will...@gmail.com wrote: I dunno about this. I remember walking the babies in a backpack and stroller. It never failed that women (never men) would give unsolicited advice on things. Socks needed to be pulled up, hats needed adjusting, sun screen, and so forth. I never made it a gender issue. And I never thought that they should understand that my top-of-the-line Graco stroller with all the expedition options (like special wheels) would inform them of my parenting knowledge. I think this is true for bikes. It might simply be that the young man believed that clip-in pedals were more efficient. And it might be that your Krampus with all the Gucci parts didn't register with him. Rohloff doesn't mean much to me and I know what it costs. Will On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 9:09:13 AM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: Is this mansplaining, or does this happen to you, too: I was out riding my Surly Krampus on some fire roads that are, to be honest, too steep for me. So I was doing a lot of walking. But that's OK, I don't mind walking. At the top, I came upon three guys who had ridden up the other side, the easy way. We got to chatting, and, as often happened, they asked me about my bike. I have flats on the bike. And then one of the guys took it upon himself to tell me I should start riding clipless. He explained that clipless would make my pedalling stronger, yadda, yadda. I answered politely, but I was furious. It should have been obvious to him that my bike was carefully chosen: it has 3 tires, a belt drive, a dynamo and a Rohloff hub. This is not a bike that one can can buy off the shop floor; it's a custom bike, and one that he should have realized I chose after careful consideration. Why, then, did he assume that a rider who had ridden for 40 years, and who had carefully chosen all the parts of her bike, would be ignorant of clipless pedals, and that somehow flats got on my bike by accident? Don't be a jerk. Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing. And don't assume that women automatically need the benefit of your superior knowledge. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Garth gart...@gmail.com wrote: good read : http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf from here : http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/ You don't have to change your mind and thinking nor can you truly . You can and do however . . . Understand :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
I dunno about this. I remember walking the babies in a backpack and stroller. It never failed that women (never men) would give unsolicited advice on things. Socks needed to be pulled up, hats needed adjusting, sun screen, and so forth. I never made it a gender issue. And I never thought that they should understand that my top-of-the-line Graco stroller with all the expedition options (like special wheels) would inform them of my parenting knowledge. I think this is true for bikes. It might simply be that the young man believed that clip-in pedals were more efficient. And it might be that your Krampus with all the Gucci parts didn't register with him. Rohloff doesn't mean much to me and I know what it costs. Will On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 9:09:13 AM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: Is this mansplaining, or does this happen to you, too: I was out riding my Surly Krampus on some fire roads that are, to be honest, too steep for me. So I was doing a lot of walking. But that's OK, I don't mind walking. At the top, I came upon three guys who had ridden up the other side, the easy way. We got to chatting, and, as often happened, they asked me about my bike. I have flats on the bike. And then one of the guys took it upon himself to tell me I should start riding clipless. He explained that clipless would make my pedalling stronger, yadda, yadda. I answered politely, but I was furious. It should have been obvious to him that my bike was carefully chosen: it has 3 tires, a belt drive, a dynamo and a Rohloff hub. This is not a bike that one can can buy off the shop floor; it's a custom bike, and one that he should have realized I chose after careful consideration. Why, then, did he assume that a rider who had ridden for 40 years, and who had carefully chosen all the parts of her bike, would be ignorant of clipless pedals, and that somehow flats got on my bike by accident? Don't be a jerk. Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing. And don't assume that women automatically need the benefit of your superior knowledge. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Garth gart...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: good read : http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf from here : http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/ You don't have to change your mind and thinking nor can you truly . You can and do however . . . Understand :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On 05/18/2015 01:24 PM, Mike Schiller wrote: ...of course we all must realize that the most well researched, carefully chosen, and costly bike/stroller may not be the best choice for a person/use. The person on their $5000+ carbon bike most likely feels that they made an informed decision even though they would be more comfortable on an upright bike with proper gearing and a comfortable seat ( where have I heard that before?). Why are we all assuming the person who bought the $5000 carbon road bike made a bad choice? Simply because you saw them riding on the MUP with it? It may be their only bike, and although it might be sub-optimal for a MUP they may do most of their riding on roads and in groups where such a bike is a perfectly appropriate choice. What's more, because you are more comfortable on an upright bike, why assume they would be? Not everyone finds road bikes uncomfortable, and not everyone finds upright bikes comfortable. And, of course, everyone's idea of a comfortable seat is different. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
...of course we all must realize that the most well researched, carefully chosen, and costly bike/stroller may not be the best choice for a person/use. The person on their $5000+ carbon bike most likely feels that they made an informed decision even though they would be more comfortable on an upright bike with proper gearing and a comfortable seat ( where have I heard that before?). So rather than take offense at others suggestions, sometimes it's best to just absorb the information, decide what to use and go on with your ride. ~mike Carlsbad Ca. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Anne, I think we agree. I watch folks on the bikepaths here riding $5K bikes. Yes... they went to the LBS and many of them got hosed. I had a young person give me the business last month. She was on an Orbea with all the go-fast bits. I was on my Atlantis (with fenders). She wanted to know why I was running bar-ends. How do you explain bar-ends to someone who's running STI? How do you explain an Atlantis to someone who's riding ovalized tubes to reduce wind resistance? My point is not that gender equals stupid. (although I think Orbea = stupid). But gender is a convenient anchor we use to frame discussion. Will On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 10:13:27 AM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote: I don't want to get into an argument about whether a guy of my age would have gotten the same comments about clipless pedals. Maybe, maybe not. And I certainly believe that the comments were well-intentioned. But Will, I think you're missing the point. It's not about the cost of the item; it's about how out of the mainstream it is. Some bikes are more obviously intentional than other bikes. It's easy to end up with a $5K carbon bike; if you walk into a bike store with $5K and a desire for an expensive bike, you are not unlikely to walk out with a $5K racing-style carbon bike. That'll be the default, in many cases. There is nothing unusual about a $5K carbon bike, at least where I live. Someone could have one because they carefully evaluated all the alternatives and deliberately chose exactly what was on their bike, but they could also have one because they got the thing that people buy. The same is true for an expensive Graco stroller; it's expensive, but nobody has to go out of their way to buy a Graco stroller. On the other hand, some bikes are clearly chosen. If I see someone touring on a generic Surly Long Haul Trucker, well, that's a pretty common bike to tour on. But if I see someone touring on a singlespeed 'cross bike, I'm going to figure they chose to tour on a singlespeed 'cross bike, and I'm not going to tell them they should consider using gears. I might have a long and interesting discussion about the merits of gears versus singlespeed when bike touring, but I'm not going to assume that they're riding a singlespeed because they never heard of gears before. I always enjoy looking at individualized bikes, and talking to their owners about why they made the choices they did. It's one thing that's fun about meeting up with other Rivendell riders. Here's the baby example: if you were changing the baby, and a woman noticed you were using cloth diapers, would you like it if she started telling you about disposable diapers? That would be annoying. People who use cloth diapers chose cloth diapers. And people on bikes with Rohloff hubs, Gates belts, dynamos and flat pedals chose flat pedals. But other On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 7:35 AM, Will waller@gmail.com javascript: wrote: That's true. But when I walked the babies I didn't think the advice that I received was ill-intentioned, nor did I get into a gender wrangle with it (or post to a use-group). The second point is: do not assume that your bike's (or stroller's) setup implies credibility. I have seen lots of folks riding expensive carbon bikes that don't make sense (to me). Does the fact that they are riding a 5K bike mean they have a clue? -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Mansplaining is not well documented Google pulls up thousands of articles on the subject, many from respected outlets. I do not think bikes and strollers lack philosophical equivalence. Both are transport devices. Something is lost in translation here. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
No and no. Mansplaining is not well documented... and it is exactly why I used the stroller example. Women are quite capable of gender indifference in giving advice. I do not think bikes and strollers lack philosophical equivalence. Both are transport devices. My point is: despite having spend big $$$ on functional logistics, both Anne and I had experiences that suggested folks did not view our equipment as experiential. Will On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 10:15:13 AM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote: What's being debated is gender-based knowledge. Off topic for the list, no doubt, but mansplaining is definitely a well-documented phenomena. And while there certainly may be anecdotal counter narratives* of womansplaining, I find it incredibly hard to believe such activity comes anywhere near its male equivalent. Finally, well into the 21st Century, infant care in the United States for better or worse is still seen by a large majority as primarily a female activity. Cycling on the other hand is clearly gender neutral. Women are involved with cycling at its most competitive levels to just having fund on a sunny weekend. The analogy between a stroller and a bike is a big jump. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
sigh On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 11:48:18 AM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote: Mansplaining is not well documented Google pulls up thousands of articles on the subject, many from respected outlets. I do not think bikes and strollers lack philosophical equivalence. Both are transport devices. Something is lost in translation here. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 10:05:09 AM UTC-4, Matthew J wrote: It might simply be that the young man believed that clip-in pedals were more efficient. Whatever the rider thought, it was none of his business. Ultimately . . . . What someone else think of me is none of* my* business ! ! ;-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
#interruptershaming On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 2:49:05 PM UTC-7, Mike Schiller wrote: Huh? I didn't say I ride an upright bike. On all 3 of my low trail custom's I have drop bars a inch or so below the saddle. I was referring to Mr P. On the carbon wannabe racers... I see at least a dozen a day. I live along the coast in SoCal and they ride their bikes up and down all day long. Carbon bike with flat pedals and running shoes and mirrors. At least they don't have those goofy interrupter brake levers! I'm glad they are out riding but the need to belong is strong. ~mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Huh? I didn't say I ride an upright bike. On all 3 of my low trail custom's I have drop bars a inch or so below the saddle. I was referring to Mr P. On the carbon wannabe racers... I see at least a dozen a day. I live along the coast in SoCal and they ride their bikes up and down all day long. Carbon bike with flat pedals and running shoes and mirrors. At least they don't have those goofy interrupter brake levers! I'm glad they are out riding but the need to belong is strong. ~mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Garth: what *I* think of you is very much your business! Over and out. For now. Patrick playing the age'd fool in ABQ, NM. On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 10:05:09 AM UTC-4, Matthew J wrote: It might simply be that the young man believed that clip-in pedals were more efficient. Whatever the rider thought, it was none of his business. Ultimately . . . . What someone else think of me is none of* my* business ! ! ;-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 11:03:00 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 05/18/2015 01:24 PM, Mike Schiller wrote: ...of course we all must realize that the most well researched, carefully chosen, and costly bike/stroller may not be the best choice for a person/use. The person on their $5000+ carbon bike most likely feels that they made an informed decision even though they would be more comfortable on an upright bike with proper gearing and a comfortable seat ( where have I heard that before?). Why are we all assuming the person who bought the $5000 carbon road bike made a bad choice? Simply because you saw them riding on the MUP with it? It may be their only bike, and although it might be sub-optimal for a MUP they may do most of their riding on roads and in groups where such a bike is a perfectly appropriate choice. What's more, because you are more comfortable on an upright bike, why assume they would be? Not everyone finds road bikes uncomfortable, and not everyone finds upright bikes comfortable. And, of course, everyone's idea of a comfortable seat is different. Of course, now a days, a lot of $5000 carbon bikes are designed with upright seating position for more comfort! For example, last year my buddy, who just got in cycling, went into a Trek store and bought that $5k carbon bike! Electronic di2 shifting, tubeless ready wheels (I was able to talk him into 700x25 tires!), 600 series carbon frames, integrated garmin sensors Well, he also got the H2 fitting position! This is the one that has a sloping top tube and a higher head tube for, guess what?.waityup, to get that handlebar higher! Not only is my buddy comfortable, he ended up losing 30+lbs and is now one of the fastest guys up the hill! What's not to like?! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On 05/18/2015 04:42 PM, Brewster Fong wrote: On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 11:03:00 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 05/18/2015 01:24 PM, Mike Schiller wrote: ...of course we all must realize that the most well researched, carefully chosen, and costly bike/stroller may not be the best choice for a person/use. The person on their $5000+ carbon bike most likely feels that they made an informed decision even though they would be more comfortable on an upright bike with proper gearing and a comfortable seat ( where have I heard that before?). Why are we all assuming the person who bought the $5000 carbon road bike made a bad choice? Simply because you saw them riding on the MUP with it? It may be their only bike, and although it might be sub-optimal for a MUP they may do most of their riding on roads and in groups where such a bike is a perfectly appropriate choice. What's more, because you are more comfortable on an upright bike, why assume they would be? Not everyone finds road bikes uncomfortable, and not everyone finds upright bikes comfortable. And, of course, everyone's idea of a comfortable seat is different. Of course, now a days, a lot of $5000 carbon bikes are designed with upright seating position for more comfort! For example, last year my buddy, who just got in cycling, went into a Trek store and bought that $5k carbon bike! Electronic di2 shifting, tubeless ready wheels (I was able to talk him into 700x25 tires!), 600 series carbon frames, integrated garmin sensors Well, he also got the H2 fitting position! This is the one that has a sloping top tube and a higher head tube for, guess what?.waityup, to get that handlebar higher! Not only is my buddy comfortable, he ended up losing 30+lbs and is now one of the fastest guys up the hill! What's not to like?! The Trek H2 is a far cry from upright. For most riders other than racers, it's far more appropriate than the H1, though. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Anne, I think my little cousin would have the best response in this situation: Talk to the hand! And I think Mr. Twain has the best advice for situations like this: “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” John On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 7:09:13 AM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote: Is this mansplaining, or does this happen to you, too: I was out riding my Surly Krampus on some fire roads that are, to be honest, too steep for me. So I was doing a lot of walking. But that's OK, I don't mind walking. At the top, I came upon three guys who had ridden up the other side, the easy way. We got to chatting, and, as often happened, they asked me about my bike. I have flats on the bike. And then one of the guys took it upon himself to tell me I should start riding clipless. He explained that clipless would make my pedalling stronger, yadda, yadda. I answered politely, but I was furious. It should have been obvious to him that my bike was carefully chosen: it has 3 tires, a belt drive, a dynamo and a Rohloff hub. This is not a bike that one can can buy off the shop floor; it's a custom bike, and one that he should have realized I chose after careful consideration. Why, then, did he assume that a rider who had ridden for 40 years, and who had carefully chosen all the parts of her bike, would be ignorant of clipless pedals, and that somehow flats got on my bike by accident? Don't be a jerk. Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing. And don't assume that women automatically need the benefit of your superior knowledge. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Garth gart...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: good read : http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf from here : http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/ You don't have to change your mind and thinking nor can you truly . You can and do however . . . Understand :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 1:51:41 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 05/18/2015 04:42 PM, Brewster Fong wrote: On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 11:03:00 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 05/18/2015 01:24 PM, Mike Schiller wrote: ...of course we all must realize that the most well researched, carefully chosen, and costly bike/stroller may not be the best choice for a person/use. The person on their $5000+ carbon bike most likely feels that they made an informed decision even though they would be more comfortable on an upright bike with proper gearing and a comfortable seat ( where have I heard that before?). Why are we all assuming the person who bought the $5000 carbon road bike made a bad choice? Simply because you saw them riding on the MUP with it? It may be their only bike, and although it might be sub-optimal for a MUP they may do most of their riding on roads and in groups where such a bike is a perfectly appropriate choice. What's more, because you are more comfortable on an upright bike, why assume they would be? Not everyone finds road bikes uncomfortable, and not everyone finds upright bikes comfortable. And, of course, everyone's idea of a comfortable seat is different. Of course, now a days, a lot of $5000 carbon bikes are designed with upright seating position for more comfort! For example, last year my buddy, who just got in cycling, went into a Trek store and bought that $5k carbon bike! Electronic di2 shifting, tubeless ready wheels (I was able to talk him into 700x25 tires!), 600 series carbon frames, integrated garmin sensors Well, he also got the H2 fitting position! This is the one that has a sloping top tube and a higher head tube for, guess what?.waityup, to get that handlebar higher! Not only is my buddy comfortable, he ended up losing 30+lbs and is now one of the fastest guys up the hill! What's not to like?! The Trek H2 is a far cry from upright. For most riders other than racers, it's far more appropriate than the H1, though. I don't know, the shop gave him quite a bit of spacers and the bar was actually pretty high. Maybe not Nitto technomic high, but his bars were definitely pointed up! In fact, once he loss weight, I hate him, he actually flipped the stem because he was able to get lower! I just laughed. But as long as he's comfortable, that is what matters! Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
The belt drive is fantastic. The Thudbuster seat post is no longer on the bike. It turns out that with the small size of the bike and the big wheels, there is not enough room to use a bikepacking seatbag, so I installed a Nitto R10 rack. The R10 attaches to the seat post (look at the bike and tell me where else a rack could attach) and did not play nicely with the Thudbuster. The one drawback with the Rohloff/belt drive is removing and reinstalling the rear wheel. It's a nightmare. On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 3:35 AM, Tom Harrop twhar...@gmail.com wrote: What a bike! How is the belt drive? Can't believe anyone would look at that and only be able to come up with you should ride clipless... -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Anne (and Deacon Patrick), I think these kinds of comments and suggestions-- even though men get them too -- can be very gendered. I think a good way to think of it is: do women repeatedly and persistently receive and experience comments on a whole range of mechanical/engineering activities that presume ignorance/ineptness, or is it a context-dependent isolated comment? In my experience with bicycles, motorcycles, computers, and woodworking to name a few, the answer to the first scenario is yes. Like some of you who share your expertise on metallurgy or physiology (which I always appreciate), this is a professional area of expertise for me. Lots and lots of really good research consistently finds that it is the predictable pattern of expectations, for gender in this case, that is deeply connected to disparities. It's complicated. If Anne's antennae were up that it was a gendered interaction, I'd go with her gut. And Anne, you continue to be a role model for me as a Rode Warrior Chica! You too, Patrick! Xxoo RCW -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Anne, sounds like you have found a solution to carrying gear in the rear, but a few bag makers can produce small bikepacking seatbags. I had one made by Greg at Boulder Bags that will fit a french fit bike. It fits my summer sleeping bag and a bivy/tarp. https://www.flickr.com/photos/37347002@N05/15776183554/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/37347002@N05/15776183554/in/dateposted-public/ others...I really like the way clipless pedals work and how I feel more part of the bike. It keeps my feet aligned and my pedal stroke smooth. Riding flats always feels awkward and only works for short rides. ~mike Carlsbad Ca. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Revelate makes smaller bikepacking seatbags-- but not small enough to fit my bike. And in any case, I don't want a tiny little bag, because I want to carry stuff in it. I'm not really a fan of bikepacking seatbags: they don't hold very much, they're hard to pack and unpack, and whatever you want is always on the bottom. A transverse bag like a Carradice or a saddlesack is so much better from a user interface perspective. I'm currently reworking the soft transverse bag I made to fit on my rack. On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Mike Schiller mikeybi...@rocketmail.com wrote: Anne, sounds like you have found a solution to carrying gear in the rear, but a few bag makers can produce small bikepacking seatbags. I had one made by Greg at Boulder Bags that will fit a french fit bike. It fits my summer sleeping bag and a bivy/tarp. https://www.flickr.com/photos/37347002@N05/15776183554/in/dateposted-public/ others...I really like the way clipless pedals work and how I feel more part of the bike. It keeps my feet aligned and my pedal stroke smooth. Riding flats always feels awkward and only works for short rides. ~mike Carlsbad Ca. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
As I said in another forum apropos of something else--when people start explaining to you why you're doing something wrong and that something has no consequences for them one way or the other, you're into the land of religion. Avoid. On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 10:09:13 AM UTC-4, Anne Paulson wrote: Is this mansplaining, or does this happen to you, too: I was out riding my Surly Krampus on some fire roads that are, to be honest, too steep for me. So I was doing a lot of walking. But that's OK, I don't mind walking. At the top, I came upon three guys who had ridden up the other side, the easy way. We got to chatting, and, as often happened, they asked me about my bike. I have flats on the bike. And then one of the guys took it upon himself to tell me I should start riding clipless. He explained that clipless would make my pedalling stronger, yadda, yadda. I answered politely, but I was furious. It should have been obvious to him that my bike was carefully chosen: it has 3 tires, a belt drive, a dynamo and a Rohloff hub. This is not a bike that one can can buy off the shop floor; it's a custom bike, and one that he should have realized I chose after careful consideration. Why, then, did he assume that a rider who had ridden for 40 years, and who had carefully chosen all the parts of her bike, would be ignorant of clipless pedals, and that somehow flats got on my bike by accident? Don't be a jerk. Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing. And don't assume that women automatically need the benefit of your superior knowledge. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Garth gart...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: good read : http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf from here : http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/ You don't have to change your mind and thinking nor can you truly . You can and do however . . . Understand :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
What a bike! How is the belt drive? Can't believe anyone would look at that and only be able to come up with you should ride clipless... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Is this mansplaining, or does this happen to you, too: I was out riding my Surly Krampus on some fire roads that are, to be honest, too steep for me. So I was doing a lot of walking. But that's OK, I don't mind walking. At the top, I came upon three guys who had ridden up the other side, the easy way. We got to chatting, and, as often happened, they asked me about my bike. I have flats on the bike. And then one of the guys took it upon himself to tell me I should start riding clipless. He explained that clipless would make my pedalling stronger, yadda, yadda. I answered politely, but I was furious. It should have been obvious to him that my bike was carefully chosen: it has 3 tires, a belt drive, a dynamo and a Rohloff hub. This is not a bike that one can can buy off the shop floor; it's a custom bike, and one that he should have realized I chose after careful consideration. Why, then, did he assume that a rider who had ridden for 40 years, and who had carefully chosen all the parts of her bike, would be ignorant of clipless pedals, and that somehow flats got on my bike by accident? Don't be a jerk. Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing. And don't assume that women automatically need the benefit of your superior knowledge. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: good read : http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf from here : http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/ You don't have to change your mind and thinking nor can you truly . You can and do however . . . Understand :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
It was NOT because you didn't share genders with the those other riders; it was because you didn't have the same gear and the same bike worldview--and they would have gone off on any one riding your rig, not because the rider was different, but because the ride was. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: Is this mansplaining, or does this happen to you, too: I was out riding my Surly Krampus on some fire roads that are, to be honest, too steep for me. So I was doing a lot of walking. But that's OK, I don't mind walking. At the top, I came upon three guys who had ridden up the other side, the easy way. We got to chatting, and, as often happened, they asked me about my bike. I have flats on the bike. And then one of the guys took it upon himself to tell me I should start riding clipless. He explained that clipless would make my pedalling stronger, yadda, yadda. I answered politely, but I was furious. It should have been obvious to him that my bike was carefully chosen: it has 3 tires, a belt drive, a dynamo and a Rohloff hub. This is not a bike that one can can buy off the shop floor; it's a custom bike, and one that he should have realized I chose after careful consideration. Why, then, did he assume that a rider who had ridden for 40 years, and who had carefully chosen all the parts of her bike, would be ignorant of clipless pedals, and that somehow flats got on my bike by accident? Don't be a jerk. Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing. And don't assume that women automatically need the benefit of your superior knowledge. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: good read : http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf from here : http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/ You don't have to change your mind and thinking nor can you truly . You can and do however . . . Understand :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Derek Simmons retiredinsancleme...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Speaking as a rider who uses clipless pedals and shoes, I certainly appreciate this, and I'm sure that riders of flat pedals will extend this courtesy to me. Same goes, I would hope, for Lycra vs loose shorts, jersey vs non-jersey, bar height, etc., etc. We all put a lot of thought into where we're going, but that doesn't mean we end up in the same place. Eric N www.CampyOnly.com CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy On May 16, 2015, at 7:09 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Do you see any clips? I am riding clipless. Grin. Of course I usually get the comments about the barefeet rather than my retention system. Grin. With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
HA! Pretty much the same exact thing happened to me. Except I was on my Quickbeam. I got the You would be faster if you had clipless line. I thought to myself that I would also be faster with 28 more gears! In my case I don't think it had much to do with gender. Just ignorance, and parroting the bit of knowledge he gleamed from his free Buycycle subscription. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: Is this mansplaining, or does this happen to you, too: I was out riding my Surly Krampus on some fire roads that are, to be honest, too steep for me. So I was doing a lot of walking. But that's OK, I don't mind walking. At the top, I came upon three guys who had ridden up the other side, the easy way. We got to chatting, and, as often happened, they asked me about my bike. I have flats on the bike. And then one of the guys took it upon himself to tell me I should start riding clipless. He explained that clipless would make my pedalling stronger, yadda, yadda. I answered politely, but I was furious. It should have been obvious to him that my bike was carefully chosen: it has 3 tires, a belt drive, a dynamo and a Rohloff hub. This is not a bike that one can can buy off the shop floor; it's a custom bike, and one that he should have realized I chose after careful consideration. Why, then, did he assume that a rider who had ridden for 40 years, and who had carefully chosen all the parts of her bike, would be ignorant of clipless pedals, and that somehow flats got on my bike by accident? Don't be a jerk. Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing. And don't assume that women automatically need the benefit of your superior knowledge. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: good read : http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf from here : http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/ You don't have to change your mind and thinking nor can you truly . You can and do however . . . Understand :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
I ride clipless the majority of the time. On MTBs it lets me jump stuff better as I lack the skills to bunny-hop well w/out them. On road bike rides (longer, sustained pedaling) I have IT band issues that will set me knee a'screamin' if I don't have it in just the right spot. Clipless pedals keep my foot/let positioned correctly which reduces that problem. They help me ride bikes comfortably, without pain, and for longer periods of time. Win, win, win! For the most-part, I tend to not tell bike-riding strangers they should use them. Too busy letting them know my bike isn't an antique. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, Bruce Boysen, formerly of the iboblist, was a demon singletrack rider who said he'd regularly leave his fully suspended, 10 speed peers behind on his rigid singlespeed 29er. (His signature used to read, please excuse me, big, rigid, and single.) He rode no-retention. IIRC, Bruce as almost my age; in his 50s at any rate. Anne, relax, there are many idiots out there, don't let them get to you. Rohloff, belt drive -- is this the Krampus? Photo? I agree wholeheartedly with Eric: what works for you may be very different from what works for me, but that doesn't mean either set of choices hasn't been well thought out. But I am eager to see BQ's evaluation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
And another thing that could be replied is, sir, you presume that I care about being faster. On May 16, 2015, at 7:17 AM, cyclotourist wrote: HA! Pretty much the same exact thing happened to me. Except I was on my Quickbeam. I got the You would be faster if you had clipless line. I thought to myself that I would also be faster with 28 more gears! In my case I don't think it had much to do with gender. Just ignorance, and parroting the bit of knowledge he gleamed from his free Buycycle subscription. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: Is this mansplaining, or does this happen to you, too: I was out riding my Surly Krampus on some fire roads that are, to be honest, too steep for me. So I was doing a lot of walking. But that's OK, I don't mind walking. At the top, I came upon three guys who had ridden up the other side, the easy way. We got to chatting, and, as often happened, they asked me about my bike. I have flats on the bike. And then one of the guys took it upon himself to tell me I should start riding clipless. He explained that clipless would make my pedalling stronger, yadda, yadda. I answered politely, but I was furious. It should have been obvious to him that my bike was carefully chosen: it has 3 tires, a belt drive, a dynamo and a Rohloff hub. This is not a bike that one can can buy off the shop floor; it's a custom bike, and one that he should have realized I chose after careful consideration. Why, then, did he assume that a rider who had ridden for 40 years, and who had carefully chosen all the parts of her bike, would be ignorant of clipless pedals, and that somehow flats got on my bike by accident? Don't be a jerk. Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing. And don't assume that women automatically need the benefit of your superior knowledge. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: good read : http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf from here : http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/ You don't have to change your mind and thinking nor can you truly . You can and do however . . . Understand :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. James Warren jimcwar...@earthlink.net - 700x33 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
If he was truly observant, my attire would have told him all he needed to know: MUSA shorts, a t-shirt and Vans. It was a smile and wave moment. But really, he was just trying to help me be a better cyclist, according to what he knew. No harm, no foul. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 7:26 AM, James Warren jimcwar...@earthlink.net wrote: And another thing that could be replied is, sir, you presume that I care about being faster. On May 16, 2015, at 7:17 AM, cyclotourist wrote: HA! Pretty much the same exact thing happened to me. Except I was on my Quickbeam. I got the You would be faster if you had clipless line. I thought to myself that I would also be faster with 28 more gears! In my case I don't think it had much to do with gender. Just ignorance, and parroting the bit of knowledge he gleamed from his free Buycycle subscription. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: Is this mansplaining, or does this happen to you, too: I was out riding my Surly Krampus on some fire roads that are, to be honest, too steep for me. So I was doing a lot of walking. But that's OK, I don't mind walking. At the top, I came upon three guys who had ridden up the other side, the easy way. We got to chatting, and, as often happened, they asked me about my bike. I have flats on the bike. And then one of the guys took it upon himself to tell me I should start riding clipless. He explained that clipless would make my pedalling stronger, yadda, yadda. I answered politely, but I was furious. It should have been obvious to him that my bike was carefully chosen: it has 3 tires, a belt drive, a dynamo and a Rohloff hub. This is not a bike that one can can buy off the shop floor; it's a custom bike, and one that he should have realized I chose after careful consideration. Why, then, did he assume that a rider who had ridden for 40 years, and who had carefully chosen all the parts of her bike, would be ignorant of clipless pedals, and that somehow flats got on my bike by accident? Don't be a jerk. Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing. And don't assume that women automatically need the benefit of your superior knowledge. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: good read : http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf from here : http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/ You don't have to change your mind and thinking nor can you truly . You can and do however . . . Understand :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. James Warren jimcwar...@earthlink.net - 700x33 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Anne, Sounds like the guy forgot to unclip his mouth from his Y chromosome... That causes any number of accidents... rod On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 10:09:13 AM UTC-4, Anne Paulson wrote: Is this mansplaining, or does this happen to you, too: I was out riding my Surly Krampus on some fire roads that are, to be honest, too steep for me. So I was doing a lot of walking. But that's OK, I don't mind walking. At the top, I came upon three guys who had ridden up the other side, the easy way. We got to chatting, and, as often happened, they asked me about my bike. I have flats on the bike. And then one of the guys took it upon himself to tell me I should start riding clipless. He explained that clipless would make my pedalling stronger, yadda, yadda. I answered politely, but I was furious. It should have been obvious to him that my bike was carefully chosen: it has 3 tires, a belt drive, a dynamo and a Rohloff hub. This is not a bike that one can can buy off the shop floor; it's a custom bike, and one that he should have realized I chose after careful consideration. Why, then, did he assume that a rider who had ridden for 40 years, and who had carefully chosen all the parts of her bike, would be ignorant of clipless pedals, and that somehow flats got on my bike by accident? Don't be a jerk. Don't assume that riders who make different choices than you do don't know what they're doing. And don't assume that women automatically need the benefit of your superior knowledge. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Garth gart...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: good read : http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf from here : http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/ You don't have to change your mind and thinking nor can you truly . You can and do however . . . Understand :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
This is the Krampus: https://plus.google.com/photos/+JohnLamping/albums/5995658591943182593?authkey=CKDxg7ehtuv6QQ July 1st, I leave Banff on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Trail. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, Bruce Boysen, formerly of the iboblist, was a demon singletrack rider who said he'd regularly leave his fully suspended, 10 speed peers behind on his rigid singlespeed 29er. (His signature used to read, please excuse me, big, rigid, and single.) He rode no-retention. IIRC, Bruce as almost my age; in his 50s at any rate. Anne, relax, there are many idiots out there, don't let them get to you. Rohloff, belt drive -- is this the Krampus? Photo? I agree wholeheartedly with Eric: what works for you may be very different from what works for me, but that doesn't mean either set of choices hasn't been well thought out. But I am eager to see BQ's evaluation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
Kick-ass bike. :-) On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 3:08:47 PM UTC-4, Anne Paulson wrote: This is the Krampus: https://plus.google.com/photos/+JohnLamping/albums/5995658591943182593?authkey=CKDxg7ehtuv6QQ July 1st, I leave Banff on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Trail. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Patrick Moore bert...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: FWIW, Bruce Boysen, formerly of the iboblist, was a demon singletrack rider who said he'd regularly leave his fully suspended, 10 speed peers behind on his rigid singlespeed 29er. (His signature used to read, please excuse me, big, rigid, and single.) He rode no-retention. IIRC, Bruce as almost my age; in his 50s at any rate. Anne, relax, there are many idiots out there, don't let them get to you. Rohloff, belt drive -- is this the Krampus? Photo? I agree wholeheartedly with Eric: what works for you may be very different from what works for me, but that doesn't mean either set of choices hasn't been well thought out. But I am eager to see BQ's evaluation. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- Anne Paulson It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: BQ to publish study of pedal retention usefulness in Summer issue
*Very* interesting bike, and certainly not one you'd see on the typical shop floor. I've toyed with the thought of the Thudbuster but, for my short rides, it would be unnecessary weight and complication. Still, after horses have chopped out our trails ... Please post notes and photos of your trip, and good luck! Midnight, Prince of Darkeness? It looks to cute to be a prince of darkeness! Patrick just kidding Moore, who rather likes the Mad Max/post-apocalyptica-wasteland-machine quasi-reference in ABQ, NM. On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.com wrote: This is the Krampus: https://plus.google.com/photos/+JohnLamping/albums/5995658591943182593?authkey=CKDxg7ehtuv6QQ July 1st, I leave Banff on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Trail. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.