Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

2019-09-06 Thread Lorenzo Ortiz 
Same. We've started calling our initial $100k+ proposals the 'kiss of
Death' since we tend to never hear from them again. It's a good way to weed
out those who aren't willing to spend the time/capital on a system that
will actually perform what they're asking (reliably!).

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 12:07 PM Ray  wrote:

> Here in Colorado, I've been called upon to do a few design bids for
> these.  I always charge a healthy design fee to eliminate the tire
> kickers.  You can spend quite a bit of time just characterizing the loads,
> only to lose the client when they find out its going to be several hundred
> thousand dollars.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 9/6/19 10:32 AM, Andrew wrote:
>
> Yeah these are for industrial cannabis operations that are starting to
> spring up due to legalization..36” industrial greenhouse fans, pre
> vegetation lighting, supplemental light and dehumidifiers… why they still
> want to do it in the middle of the boonies with now power is beyond me..
>
>
>
> Andrew Perkins
>
> Greenwired
>
> P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100
>
> 1150 #1 Evergreen Rd
>
> Redway, CA 95560
>
> www.greenwired.com
>
> [image: Description: signature]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *
> palumbo1...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 05, 2019 7:48 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage
>
>
>
> Is “25 Kw per hour” a real value? For us old school people there is kW and
> they is kWh (kilowatt hours). I’m guessing that it is 25 kWh per average
> day, or, about 750 KWh / month.
>
> Dave Palumbo
>
> Hyde Park, VT
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Sep 5, 2019, at 5:15 PM, Andrew  wrote:
>
> Hey Everyone,
>
> I have been recently been getting more and more inquiries
> for some quite large off-grid sytems(25kw per hour) and seeing what you
> guys have for suggestions on bigger inverters and storage systems?  I could
> do 2 triple stack Schneider’s and a bunch of HUPS industrial batteries but
> it all just takes up so much space and I know there are some other
> companies out there with package units. Thoughts?
>
>
>
> Andrew Perkins
>
> Greenwired
>
> P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100
>
> 1150 #1 Evergreen Rd
>
> Redway, CA 95560
>
> www.greenwired.com
>
> 
>
>
>
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Technical PV Design Specialist - Commercial/Residential/Off-Grid

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*Main: 530-274-3671 ext: 311 * *Fax: 530-274-7518*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

2019-09-06 Thread Ray 
Here in Colorado, I've been called upon to do a few design bids for 
these.  I always charge a healthy design fee to eliminate the tire 
kickers.  You can spend quite a bit of time just characterizing the 
loads, only to lose the client when they find out its going to be 
several hundred thousand dollars.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 9/6/19 10:32 AM, Andrew wrote:


Yeah these are for industrial cannabis operations that are starting to 
spring up due to legalization..36” industrial greenhouse fans, pre 
vegetation lighting, supplemental light and dehumidifiers… why they 
still want to do it in the middle of the boonies with now power is 
beyond me..


Andrew Perkins

Greenwired

P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd

Redway, CA 95560

www.greenwired.com

Description: signature

*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] 
*On Behalf Of *palumbo1...@gmail.com

*Sent:* Thursday, September 05, 2019 7:48 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

Is “25 Kw per hour” a real value? For us old school people there is kW 
and they is kWh (kilowatt hours). I’m guessing that it is 25 kWh per 
average day, or, about 750 KWh / month.


Dave Palumbo

Hyde Park, VT

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 5, 2019, at 5:15 PM, Andrew <mailto:and...@greenwired.com>> wrote:


Hey Everyone,

    I have been recently been getting more and more
inquiries for some quite large off-grid sytems(25kw per hour) and
seeing what you guys have for suggestions on bigger inverters and
storage systems?  I could do 2 triple stack Schneider’s and a
bunch of HUPS industrial batteries but it all just takes up so
much space and I know there are some other companies out there
with package units. Thoughts?

Andrew Perkins

Greenwired

P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd

Redway, CA 95560

www.greenwired.com <http://www.greenwired.com>



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

2019-09-06 Thread Starlight Solar Power Systems 
Hi Andrew,

Any phrase that includes “per hour” while describing power use, generation or 
storage in a RE system is probably a misnomer. Think about it: you could just 
as well say 25kW per second or per month. That’s because kW is a term that 
describes a rate or power, not a quantity of energy used or stored; kWh defines 
that. 

In our retail store I have heard this term hundreds of times. While I am 
describing the difference between Watts and Watt-Hours, which is typically the 
source of  confusion, I ask, “Would you say that your car has a 200HP “per 
hour” engine?” No, you would just say 200HP because you are describing power.

So, if you meant the combined loads require 25kW to operate, use that number to 
determine inverter or generator sizes. If you are describing 25kWh of energy 
use or storage, use that to determine power production and battery bank size.

To your question: I am a fan of using Li-ion batteries for the long life, 
weight and space savings, no maintenance, much higher charge rates, fastest 
recharging, and the 40% reduction in the PV system size compared to LA storage. 
Plus you get battery protection and monitoring included. Since you never have 
to fully charge them, for offgrid use, the advantages are huge. For people 
making  growing weeds, buy the best. Contact me off the list if you would 
like more understanding about Li battery storage. 

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
la...@starlightsolar.com


On Sep 6, 2019, at 9:32 AM, Andrew  wrote:
Yeah these are for industrial cannabis operations that are starting to spring 
up due to legalization..36” industrial greenhouse fans, pre vegetation 
lighting, supplemental light and dehumidifiers… why they still want to do it in 
the middle of the boonies with now power is beyond me..
 
Andrew Perkins
Greenwired
P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100
1150 #1 Evergreen Rd
Redway, CA 95560


On Sep 5, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Andrew  wrote:

Hey Everyone,
I have been recently been getting more and more inquiries for 
some quite large off-grid sytems(25kw per hour) and seeing what you guys have 
for suggestions on bigger inverters and storage systems?  I could do 2 triple 
stack Schneider’s and a bunch of HUPS industrial batteries but it all just 
takes up so much space and I know there are some other companies out there with 
package units. Thoughts? 
 
Andrew Perkins
Greenwired
P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100
1150 #1 Evergreen Rd
Redway, CA 95560

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

2019-09-06 Thread Andrew 
Yeah these are for industrial cannabis operations that are starting to spring 
up due to legalization..36” industrial greenhouse fans, pre vegetation 
lighting, supplemental light and dehumidifiers… why they still want to do it in 
the middle of the boonies with now power is beyond me..

 

Andrew Perkins

Greenwired

P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd

Redway, CA 95560

www.greenwired.com

Description: signature

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of palumbo1...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2019 7:48 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

 

Is “25 Kw per hour” a real value? For us old school people there is kW and they 
is kWh (kilowatt hours). I’m guessing that it is 25 kWh per average day, or, 
about 750 KWh / month.

Dave Palumbo 

Hyde Park, VT

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 5, 2019, at 5:15 PM, Andrew  wrote:

Hey Everyone,

I have been recently been getting more and more inquiries for 
some quite large off-grid sytems(25kw per hour) and seeing what you guys have 
for suggestions on bigger inverters and storage systems?  I could do 2 triple 
stack Schneider’s and a bunch of HUPS industrial batteries but it all just 
takes up so much space and I know there are some other companies out there with 
package units. Thoughts? 

 

Andrew Perkins

Greenwired

P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd

Redway, CA 95560

www.greenwired.com



 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

2019-09-06 Thread Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 


Last time I looked, victron was not UL and you needed 2 of them for
split phase. Am I wrong? 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where
powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail
offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 07:17:32
-0400, Tump  wrote: Victron has 10kW/120/100A pass thru, inverters and do
your self a favor, buy individual 2 volt batteries. Cells DO GO BAD and
replacing a cell in a HUPs battery is a CF. AND they really are a pain to
install.
   On Sep 5, 2019, at 10:50 PM, David Katz  wrote: 
   The
sentence "25KW per hour" does not make sense. Do they mean 25KWh per hour?
That would be 600 KWh per day! That would require over 200KW of PV.   David
Katz  
  On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 3:33 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar  wrote:


I often find that numbers like 25KW per hour are just overblown and the
rest of the Offgrid load power data is too high. 

Offgrid is all about the
state of the art in not needing high power levels by using the best
equipment available for the loads. 

One can't simply take a power bill
from a utility and try to duplicate it offgrid. The loads have to be
reduced drastically.  

Maybe this is not the case here and if so I
digress. Good Luck 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [5]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[6]
text 209 813 0060

On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 16:16:27 -0600, "Dana"  wrote:  


You will have to park the 'Package' somewhere... Yeah off grid takes
space & WLA batteries like to be warm in the winter ">Basements? Dedicated
building? Storage container [insulated]? 

Radiant floors make for happy
batteries. Cool in summer "> 

Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. 


C - 208.721.7003  

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374


NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.com [8] 

"Responsible Technologies for
Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before
printing this email.

FROM: RE-wrenches  ON BEHALF OF Andrew
SENT:
Thursday, September 05, 2019 3:15 PM
TO: RE-wrenches 
SUBJECT:
[RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage 

Hey Everyone, 

 I have
been recently been getting more and more inquiries for some quite large
off-grid sytems(25kw per hour) and seeing what you guys have for
suggestions on bigger inverters and storage systems? I could do 2 triple
stack Schneider's and a bunch of HUPS industrial batteries but it all just
takes up so much space and I know there are some other companies out there
with package units. Thoughts?   

Andrew Perkins 

Greenwired 

P:
707-923-2001 ext. 100 

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd 

Redway, CA 95560


www.greenwired.com [11] 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

2019-09-06 Thread Tump 
Victron has 10kW/120/100A pass thru, inverters and do your self a favor, buy 
individual 2 volt batteries. Cells DO GO BAD and replacing a cell in a HUPs 
battery is a CF. AND they really are a pain to install.
> On Sep 5, 2019, at 10:50 PM, David Katz  wrote:
> 
> The sentence “25KW per hour“ does not make sense. Do they mean 25KWh per 
> hour? That would be 600 KWh per day! That would require over 200KW of PV. 
> David Katz 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 3:33 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
> mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>> wrote:
> I often find that numbers like 25KW per hour are just overblown and the rest 
> of the Offgrid load power data is too high.
> 
> Offgrid is all about the state of the art in not needing high power levels by 
> using the best equipment available for the loads.
> 
> One can't simply take a power bill from a utility and try to duplicate it 
> offgrid. The loads have to be reduced drastically. 
> 
> Maybe this is not the case here and if so I digress. Good Luck
> 
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net <mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>
> text 209 813 0060
> On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 16:16:27 -0600, "Dana"  <mailto:d...@solarwork.com>> wrote:
> 
>> You will have to park the ‘Package’ somewhere… Yeah off grid takes space & 
>> WLA batteries like to be warm in the winter & not too hot in the summer.
>> 
>> Basements? Dedicated building? Storage container [insulated]?
>> 
>> Radiant floors make for happy batteries. Cool in summer & warm in winter.
>> 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc.
>> 
>> C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com 
>> <mailto:d...@solarwork.com>
>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374
>> 
>> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.com 
>> <http://www.solarwork.com/>
>> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" 
>> 
>> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> From: RE-wrenches > <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> On Behalf Of Andrew
>> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2019 3:15 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage
>> 
>>  
>> Hey Everyone,
>> 
>> I have been recently been getting more and more inquiries 
>> for some quite large off-grid sytems(25kw per hour) and seeing what you guys 
>> have for suggestions on bigger inverters and storage systems?  I could do 2 
>> triple stack Schneider’s and a bunch of HUPS industrial batteries but it all 
>> just takes up so much space and I know there are some other companies out 
>> there with package units. Thoughts?
>> 
>>  
>> Andrew Perkins
>> 
>> Greenwired
>> 
>> P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100
>> 
>> 1150 #1 Evergreen Rd
>> 
>> Redway, CA 95560
>> 
>> www.greenwired.com <http://www.greenwired.com/>
>> 
>> 
>>  
> -- 
>  
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

2019-09-05 Thread palumbo131m 
Is “25 Kw per hour” a real value? For us old school people there is kW and they 
is kWh (kilowatt hours). I’m guessing that it is 25 kWh per average day, or, 
about 750 KWh / month.
Dave Palumbo 
Hyde Park, VT

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 5, 2019, at 5:15 PM, Andrew  wrote:
> 
> Hey Everyone,
> I have been recently been getting more and more inquiries for 
> some quite large off-grid sytems(25kw per hour) and seeing what you guys have 
> for suggestions on bigger inverters and storage systems?  I could do 2 triple 
> stack Schneider’s and a bunch of HUPS industrial batteries but it all just 
> takes up so much space and I know there are some other companies out there 
> with package units. Thoughts?
>  
> Andrew Perkins
> Greenwired
> P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100
> 1150 #1 Evergreen Rd
> Redway, CA 95560
> www.greenwired.com
> 
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

2019-09-05 Thread Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 


I often find that numbers like 25KW per hour are just overblown and the
rest of the Offgrid load power data is too high. 

Offgrid is all about the
state of the art in not needing high power levels by using the best
equipment available for the loads. 

One can't simply take a power bill
from a utility and try to duplicate it offgrid. The loads have to be
reduced drastically.  

Maybe this is not the case here and if so I
digress. Good Luck 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 16:16:27 -0600, "Dana"  wrote:  


You will have to park the 'Package' somewhere… Yeah off grid takes space
& WLA batteries like to be warm in the winter ">Basements? Dedicated
building? Storage container [insulated]? 

Radiant floors make for happy
batteries. Cool in summer ">

Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc.  

C -
208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com 

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV #
028374 

NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.com [3] 

"Responsible
Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the
environment before printing this email. 

FROM: RE-wrenches  ON BEHALF OF
Andrew
SENT: Thursday, September 05, 2019 3:15 PM
TO: RE-wrenches 
SUBJECT:
[RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage   

Hey Everyone, 

 I have
been recently been getting more and more inquiries for some quite large
off-grid sytems(25kw per hour) and seeing what you guys have for
suggestions on bigger inverters and storage systems? I could do 2 triple
stack Schneider's and a bunch of HUPS industrial batteries but it all just
takes up so much space and I know there are some other companies out there
with package units. Thoughts?  

Andrew Perkins 

Greenwired 

P:
707-923-2001 ext. 100 

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd 

Redway, CA 95560


www.greenwired.com [4] 

-- 

 

Links:
--
[1]
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[2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
[3]
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[RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

2019-09-05 Thread Dana 
You will have to park the 'Package' somewhere. Yeah off grid takes space &
WLA batteries like to be warm in the winter & not too hot in the summer. 

Basements? Dedicated building? Storage container [insulated]?

Radiant floors make for happy batteries. Cool in summer & warm in winter.

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136<http://www.solarwork.com>
www.solarwork.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of
Andrew
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2019 3:15 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

 

Hey Everyone,

I have been recently been getting more and more inquiries
for some quite large off-grid sytems(25kw per hour) and seeing what you guys
have for suggestions on bigger inverters and storage systems?  I could do 2
triple stack Schneider's and a bunch of HUPS industrial batteries but it all
just takes up so much space and I know there are some other companies out
there with package units. Thoughts? 

 

Andrew Perkins

Greenwired

P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd

Redway, CA 95560

www.greenwired.com <http://www.greenwired.com> 



 

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[RE-wrenches] Large off-grid inverter/storage

2019-09-05 Thread Andrew 
Hey Everyone,

I have been recently been getting more and more inquiries
for some quite large off-grid sytems(25kw per hour) and seeing what you guys
have for suggestions on bigger inverters and storage systems?  I could do 2
triple stack Schneider's and a bunch of HUPS industrial batteries but it all
just takes up so much space and I know there are some other companies out
there with package units. Thoughts? 

 

Andrew Perkins

Greenwired

P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd

Redway, CA 95560

www.greenwired.com

Description: signature

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

2018-04-26 Thread Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
I must have missed this in your post!

https://solar.schneider-electric.com/solution/centralised-solar-power-plants-1500v/

You can navigate to their engineering team. I have found that once you
have a case number you communicate easily with e-mail.

--Dave

> I appreciate everyone's replies so far. First, we already have an
> electronic soft start control, it just needs to be reprogrammed to
> reduce the starting surge more.  Second, we are way beyond 48v land.  We
> are in the realm of commercial scale inverters of at least 500 kW to 1.5
> MW.  They will be running at 600 vdc min and probably 1500 v range. 
> Output is 480v 3 phase.
>
> When I mentioned SMA, it was not their Sunny Island, its their larger
> scale Grid tie equipment syncing to a generator.
>
> https://www.sma-america.com/industrial-systems/pv-diesel-hybrid-applications.html
>
> Most of the inverters we are looking at are primarily being used with
> batteries for peak shaving to reduce demand charges on grid. Some, such
> as Dynapower can work off grid, but I am not finding evidence that
> anyone has much real life field experience off grid.  Princeton Power
> has their 100 kW inverter in Haiti forming a micro-grid, but I have very
> few details at the moment.
>
> Even if your experience with these large battery inverters is just on
> grid, I'd love to hear about it. Offline is fine, if its not all good
> news.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Walters
>
> Remote Solar
>
>
> On 4/26/18 5:23 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote:
>> Hello Ray,
>>
>> I have a couple 60/100 kW SMA Sunny Island systems out there, systems
>> with 100 kW generators, 400 kWh battery banks and generally token
>> renewable inputs. I feel with this configuration we close maxing out
>> what can be done with 48VDC.
>>
>> Getting into the MW scale scares me to be honest. I think that will be
>> well beyond what can be handled at 48VDC and is well beyond capacity of
>> the SMA systems. Really need to look into higher DC voltages to handle
>> this kind of current.
>>
>> If this was my client I would first look to the loads and see if there
>> are any alternatives to the 250 HP motor. I have learned there are often
>> massive levels of engineering overkill in the industrial world. What is
>> the duty cycle of that motor, what does it do, etc? Would they be better
>> to go directly diesel for that?
>>
>> In terms of system designs I'd investigate a direct diesel/PV interface
>> skipping battery storage. Perhaps a group of 250 kW synchronized
>> generators that can ramp up/down based on demand. Perhaps similar tech
>> to what Tesla is doing in Australia.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
>> Behalf Of Ray
>> Sent: April-25-18 12:37 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?
>>
>> Greetings Fellow Wrenches;
>>
>> We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that
>> is currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set.  The loads are enormous
>> for normal off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v
>> 3 phase.  Surges are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control
>> programming to bring that number down substantially.  That is due
>> primarily to a 250 Hp motor start. (that's not a typo!). EPA and local
>> regulations are dictating that the current generator be retired in the
>> near future.  Grid power is a possibility, but we need to offer a
>> viable off grid option as well.
>>
>> My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with
>> large format battery based inverters?   I've heard of some micro-grid
>> systems running in Haiti on Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has
>> a 250 kW inverter that has a "grid forming" mode.  As we all know, it
>> is easier to make claims in spec sheets than to deliver hard motor
>> starting power in a remote location.  We need proven products, with a
>> track record of reliability.
>>
>> We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset
>> fuel consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the
>> generator to maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard
>> starting loads. Ideally we would want to reduce the generator run time
>> to under 200 hrs/ yr and reduce its size to 500 kW.  We have excellent
>> solar resources year round, and the possibility of  limiting operations
>> during cloudy weather to meet these goals.
>>
>&g

[RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

2018-04-26 Thread jay 
There are many large 250kw to multi mw battery based inverters that should 
cover this project. 

Most are coming out of china, so I don’t know if UL is something they have. 
Princeton is one here in the USA, looks like 250kw and 500kwh is their largest 
on the web site.
Sun Grow is one of many out of china.

Most of these are using 600-1500vdc lithium battery banks, 50kw 1000v-1500v CC 
etc.



A whole new ball game. There are also 50-75 kw units as well, I think the days 
of larger cluster inverter systems is coming to an end.  The advantages of 
higher voltage battery banks is just too good not to use.




jay

peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

2018-04-26 Thread Ray 
I appreciate everyone's replies so far. First, we already have an 
electronic soft start control, it just needs to be reprogrammed to 
reduce the starting surge more.  Second, we are way beyond 48v land.  We 
are in the realm of commercial scale inverters of at least 500 kW to 1.5 
MW.  They will be running at 600 vdc min and probably 1500 v range.  
Output is 480v 3 phase.


When I mentioned SMA, it was not their Sunny Island, its their larger 
scale Grid tie equipment syncing to a generator.


https://www.sma-america.com/industrial-systems/pv-diesel-hybrid-applications.html

Most of the inverters we are looking at are primarily being used with 
batteries for peak shaving to reduce demand charges on grid. Some, such 
as Dynapower can work off grid, but I am not finding evidence that 
anyone has much real life field experience off grid.  Princeton Power 
has their 100 kW inverter in Haiti forming a micro-grid, but I have very 
few details at the moment.


Even if your experience with these large battery inverters is just on 
grid, I'd love to hear about it. Offline is fine, if its not all good news.


Thanks,

Ray Walters

Remote Solar


On 4/26/18 5:23 PM, Kevin Pegg wrote:

Hello Ray,

I have a couple 60/100 kW SMA Sunny Island systems out there, systems with 100 
kW generators, 400 kWh battery banks and generally token renewable inputs. I 
feel with this configuration we close maxing out what can be done with 48VDC.

Getting into the MW scale scares me to be honest. I think that will be well 
beyond what can be handled at 48VDC and is well beyond capacity of the SMA 
systems. Really need to look into higher DC voltages to handle this kind of 
current.

If this was my client I would first look to the loads and see if there are any 
alternatives to the 250 HP motor. I have learned there are often massive levels 
of engineering overkill in the industrial world. What is the duty cycle of that 
motor, what does it do, etc? Would they be better to go directly diesel for 
that?

In terms of system designs I'd investigate a direct diesel/PV interface 
skipping battery storage. Perhaps a group of 250 kW synchronized generators 
that can ramp up/down based on demand. Perhaps similar tech to what Tesla is 
doing in Australia.

Kevin


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: April-25-18 12:37 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

Greetings Fellow Wrenches;

We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that is 
currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set.  The loads are enormous for normal 
off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v 3 phase.  Surges 
are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control programming to bring that 
number down substantially.  That is due primarily to a 250 Hp motor start. 
(that's not a typo!). EPA and local regulations are dictating that the current 
generator be retired in the near future.  Grid power is a possibility, but we 
need to offer a viable off grid option as well.

My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with large format 
battery based inverters?   I've heard of some micro-grid systems running in Haiti on 
Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has a 250 kW inverter that has a "grid 
forming" mode.  As we all know, it is easier to make claims in spec sheets than to 
deliver hard motor starting power in a remote location.  We need proven products, with a 
track record of reliability.

We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset fuel 
consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the generator to 
maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard starting loads. Ideally we 
would want to reduce the generator run time to under 200 hrs/ yr and reduce its 
size to 500 kW.  We have excellent solar resources year round, and the 
possibility of  limiting operations during cloudy weather to meet these goals.

Thanks,

Ray Walters

Remote Solar

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

2018-04-26 Thread Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
I know Schneider would love to sell you their cluster of 15 XW6848+ for a
max of 102KW and probably well over 300KW of surge.
Here is a link to their commercial offgrid. I do own their stock and other
companies also :) Their commercial engineers are pretty smart about this.

https://solar.schneider-electric.com/solution/commercial-off-grid-solar-2/

This does sound like a challenge and keep us informed on what you do
please! Good Luck!  --Dave

> Hello Ray,
>
> I have a couple 60/100 kW SMA Sunny Island systems out there, systems with
> 100 kW generators, 400 kWh battery banks and generally token renewable
> inputs. I feel with this configuration we close maxing out what can be
> done with 48VDC.
>
> Getting into the MW scale scares me to be honest. I think that will be
> well beyond what can be handled at 48VDC and is well beyond capacity of
> the SMA systems. Really need to look into higher DC voltages to handle
> this kind of current.
>
> If this was my client I would first look to the loads and see if there are
> any alternatives to the 250 HP motor. I have learned there are often
> massive levels of engineering overkill in the industrial world. What is
> the duty cycle of that motor, what does it do, etc? Would they be better
> to go directly diesel for that?
>
> In terms of system designs I'd investigate a direct diesel/PV interface
> skipping battery storage. Perhaps a group of 250 kW synchronized
> generators that can ramp up/down based on demand. Perhaps similar tech to
> what Tesla is doing in Australia.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray
> Sent: April-25-18 12:37 PM
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?
>
> Greetings Fellow Wrenches;
>
> We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that is
> currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set.  The loads are enormous for
> normal off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v 3
> phase.  Surges are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control
> programming to bring that number down substantially.  That is due
> primarily to a 250 Hp motor start. (that's not a typo!). EPA and local
> regulations are dictating that the current generator be retired in the
> near future.  Grid power is a possibility, but we need to offer a viable
> off grid option as well.
>
> My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with
> large format battery based inverters?   I've heard of some micro-grid
> systems running in Haiti on Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has a
> 250 kW inverter that has a "grid forming" mode.  As we all know, it is
> easier to make claims in spec sheets than to deliver hard motor starting
> power in a remote location.  We need proven products, with a track record
> of reliability.
>
> We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset fuel
> consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the generator to
> maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard starting loads.
> Ideally we would want to reduce the generator run time to under 200 hrs/
> yr and reduce its size to 500 kW.  We have excellent solar resources year
> round, and the possibility of  limiting operations during cloudy weather
> to meet these goals.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Walters
>
> Remote Solar
>
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Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

2018-04-26 Thread bzp 
Try a three phase soft starter. Programmable start ramp time with relay 
bypass. Not as expensive as a full blown VFD.


Frank BZP.



On 4/26/2018 9:17 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:

Agree with Daryl here at the end. You have to solve the motor surge with
variable frequency drive and go 3 phase. If there is a reasonable cost to
use the grid I would not even bother with quoting an off the grid
solution. It is what the grid is best at and batteries are the wrong way
for this.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


you have a problem that is much bigger than I work on.  But on a large
motor heavy starting loads problem, we used an extra capacitor on the  DC
bus of the frequency drive.  the drive on its own greatly reduced the
start
surge, if the load can be started slowly.  If the motor must ramp up
quickly the voltage would drop and the capacitor reduced the bump on the
line.  This was a few years ago but we put a 200 HP drive on a 100 HP
motor
and added the extra capacitor.  Another trick on a different job was to
run
a 3 phase motor with a flywheel and start this motor slowly when the motor
that had to start rapidly the running motor acts as a frequency
stabilizer and dumps it energy into the rapidly starting motor.  again
this
was maybe 15 years ago.   these kluge solutions were applied when the
inverter could in no way handle the surge and would kick the inverter off
the line.  Another solution used by Catipiller they had a unit that could
give 3000 amps 480 v0lts for I think 30 seconds running a motor as a
flywheel for UPS giving the generator set time to start.  Check with
Catapiller.  again another project we clutched the running motor to the
load to start the load fast and not have to face starting current. One
last comment we had a 5000 HP motor to start a very heavy load, this motor
had a hydraulic coupling that filled with oil to control the motor load.
But I think a speed drive is more practical.  And there are regen drives
also.

There are some other kluges that can be applied, good luck, sorry if this
is of no value.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 2:36 PM, Ray  wrote:


Greetings Fellow Wrenches;

We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that
is
currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set.  The loads are enormous for
normal off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v 3
phase.  Surges are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control
programming to bring that number down substantially.  That is due
primarily
to a 250 Hp motor start. (that's not a typo!). EPA and local regulations
are dictating that the current generator be retired in the near future.
Grid power is a possibility, but we need to offer a viable off grid
option
as well.

My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with
large format battery based inverters?   I've heard of some micro-grid
systems running in Haiti on Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has
a
250 kW inverter that has a "grid forming" mode.  As we all know, it is
easier to make claims in spec sheets than to deliver hard motor starting
power in a remote location.  We need proven products, with a track
record
of reliability.

We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset
fuel
consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the generator to
maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard starting loads.
Ideally we would want to reduce the generator run time to under 200 hrs/
yr
and reduce its size to 500 kW.  We have excellent solar resources year
round, and the possibility of  limiting operations during cloudy weather
to
meet these goals.

Thanks,

Ray Walters

Remote Solar

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

2018-04-26 Thread Kevin Pegg 
Hello Ray, 

I have a couple 60/100 kW SMA Sunny Island systems out there, systems with 100 
kW generators, 400 kWh battery banks and generally token renewable inputs. I 
feel with this configuration we close maxing out what can be done with 48VDC. 

Getting into the MW scale scares me to be honest. I think that will be well 
beyond what can be handled at 48VDC and is well beyond capacity of the SMA 
systems. Really need to look into higher DC voltages to handle this kind of 
current. 

If this was my client I would first look to the loads and see if there are any 
alternatives to the 250 HP motor. I have learned there are often massive levels 
of engineering overkill in the industrial world. What is the duty cycle of that 
motor, what does it do, etc? Would they be better to go directly diesel for 
that? 

In terms of system designs I'd investigate a direct diesel/PV interface 
skipping battery storage. Perhaps a group of 250 kW synchronized generators 
that can ramp up/down based on demand. Perhaps similar tech to what Tesla is 
doing in Australia. 

Kevin


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: April-25-18 12:37 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

Greetings Fellow Wrenches;

We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that is 
currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set.  The loads are enormous for normal 
off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v 3 phase.  Surges 
are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control programming to bring that 
number down substantially.  That is due primarily to a 250 Hp motor start. 
(that's not a typo!). EPA and local regulations are dictating that the current 
generator be retired in the near future.  Grid power is a possibility, but we 
need to offer a viable off grid option as well.

My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with large 
format battery based inverters?   I've heard of some micro-grid systems running 
in Haiti on Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has a 250 kW inverter that 
has a "grid forming" mode.  As we all know, it is easier to make claims in spec 
sheets than to deliver hard motor starting power in a remote location.  We need 
proven products, with a track record of reliability.

We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset fuel 
consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the generator to 
maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard starting loads. Ideally we 
would want to reduce the generator run time to under 200 hrs/ yr and reduce its 
size to 500 kW.  We have excellent solar resources year round, and the 
possibility of  limiting operations during cloudy weather to meet these goals.

Thanks,

Ray Walters

Remote Solar

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[RE-wrenches] Large off grid inverter

2018-04-26 Thread Hilton Dier 
A tough assignment, but Daryl has the right idea. 

A company I used to work for did large off grid systems and would use something 
they called a rotary capacitor (or something like that). It was a large 
induction motor paralleled into the grid. It had a DC pony motor and some 
synchro hardware/software. The DC motor would run it up to synchronous speed 
and the contactors would bring it online. It would just sit there idling, 
drawing just enough to overcome friction and windage. When some big reactive 
load hit the grid it would smooth out the wobble in the waveform. 

If the functional motor in question doesn’t start under load, you might 
consider a DC pony motor to bring it up to synchro RPM before closing the main 
contactors.

Good luck!

Hilton Dier III
Renewable Energy Design
Missisquoi River Hydro LLC
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

2018-04-26 Thread Ray 
We're not too worried about reducing the surge at this point; the 
existing soft start controller is currently programmed for a fast start, 
because their electrician was worried about motor damage if the 
controller was set to limit current.  It is currently surging to 700% of 
run current, so we should be able to easily bring that down to 200% with 
some programming.  We just need to convince them that the motor will not 
be damaged. It will only see one start/ day.


Grid is 3 miles away, but they may be required to suspend their 
operations for months or years, while all the necessary studies, 
easements, and approvals are obtained.  Also, in this case, there is a 
strong incentive from their management to try off grid, as they have 
other operations that they want to wean off of gen-sets that will never 
have grid.


I agree with both of you, and suggested the grid option first. With the 
right technology, we could use PV and battery storage off grid, then 
once grid power is available, go to a GT system with the battery storage 
used to reduce demand charges.


I still haven't heard from anyone here that has actually done large 
scale (over 100kW) inverters off grid.  I don't want to spec the next 
Studebaker of solar.


Thanks everyone for your help,

Ray


On 4/26/18 8:17 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:

Agree with Daryl here at the end. You have to solve the motor surge with
variable frequency drive and go 3 phase. If there is a reasonable cost to
use the grid I would not even bother with quoting an off the grid
solution. It is what the grid is best at and batteries are the wrong way
for this.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


you have a problem that is much bigger than I work on.  But on a large
motor heavy starting loads problem, we used an extra capacitor on the  DC
bus of the frequency drive.  the drive on its own greatly reduced the
start
surge, if the load can be started slowly.  If the motor must ramp up
quickly the voltage would drop and the capacitor reduced the bump on the
line.  This was a few years ago but we put a 200 HP drive on a 100 HP
motor
and added the extra capacitor.  Another trick on a different job was to
run
a 3 phase motor with a flywheel and start this motor slowly when the motor
that had to start rapidly the running motor acts as a frequency
stabilizer and dumps it energy into the rapidly starting motor.  again
this
was maybe 15 years ago.   these kluge solutions were applied when the
inverter could in no way handle the surge and would kick the inverter off
the line.  Another solution used by Catipiller they had a unit that could
give 3000 amps 480 v0lts for I think 30 seconds running a motor as a
flywheel for UPS giving the generator set time to start.  Check with
Catapiller.  again another project we clutched the running motor to the
load to start the load fast and not have to face starting current. One
last comment we had a 5000 HP motor to start a very heavy load, this motor
had a hydraulic coupling that filled with oil to control the motor load.
But I think a speed drive is more practical.  And there are regen drives
also.

There are some other kluges that can be applied, good luck, sorry if this
is of no value.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 2:36 PM, Ray  wrote:


Greetings Fellow Wrenches;

We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that
is
currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set.  The loads are enormous for
normal off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v 3
phase.  Surges are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control
programming to bring that number down substantially.  That is due
primarily
to a 250 Hp motor start. (that's not a typo!). EPA and local regulations
are dictating that the current generator be retired in the near future.
Grid power is a possibility, but we need to offer a viable off grid
option
as well.

My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with
large format battery based inverters?   I've heard of some micro-grid
systems running in Haiti on Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has
a
250 kW inverter that has a "grid forming" mode.  As we all know, it is
easier to make claims in spec sheets than to deliver hard motor starting
power in a remote location.  We need proven products, with a track
record
of reliability.

We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset
fuel
consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the generator to
maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard starting loads.
Ideally we would want to reduce the generator run time to under 200 hrs/
yr
and reduce its size to 500 kW.  We have excellent solar resources year
round, and the possibility of  limiting operations during cloudy weather
to
meet these goals.

Thanks,

Ray Walters

Remote Solar

Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

2018-04-26 Thread Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
Agree with Daryl here at the end. You have to solve the motor surge with
variable frequency drive and go 3 phase. If there is a reasonable cost to
use the grid I would not even bother with quoting an off the grid
solution. It is what the grid is best at and batteries are the wrong way
for this.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> you have a problem that is much bigger than I work on.  But on a large
> motor heavy starting loads problem, we used an extra capacitor on the  DC
> bus of the frequency drive.  the drive on its own greatly reduced the
> start
> surge, if the load can be started slowly.  If the motor must ramp up
> quickly the voltage would drop and the capacitor reduced the bump on the
> line.  This was a few years ago but we put a 200 HP drive on a 100 HP
> motor
> and added the extra capacitor.  Another trick on a different job was to
> run
> a 3 phase motor with a flywheel and start this motor slowly when the motor
> that had to start rapidly the running motor acts as a frequency
> stabilizer and dumps it energy into the rapidly starting motor.  again
> this
> was maybe 15 years ago.   these kluge solutions were applied when the
> inverter could in no way handle the surge and would kick the inverter off
> the line.  Another solution used by Catipiller they had a unit that could
> give 3000 amps 480 v0lts for I think 30 seconds running a motor as a
> flywheel for UPS giving the generator set time to start.  Check with
> Catapiller.  again another project we clutched the running motor to the
> load to start the load fast and not have to face starting current. One
> last comment we had a 5000 HP motor to start a very heavy load, this motor
> had a hydraulic coupling that filled with oil to control the motor load.
> But I think a speed drive is more practical.  And there are regen drives
> also.
>
> There are some other kluges that can be applied, good luck, sorry if this
> is of no value.
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 2:36 PM, Ray  wrote:
>
>> Greetings Fellow Wrenches;
>>
>> We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that
>> is
>> currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set.  The loads are enormous for
>> normal off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v 3
>> phase.  Surges are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control
>> programming to bring that number down substantially.  That is due
>> primarily
>> to a 250 Hp motor start. (that's not a typo!). EPA and local regulations
>> are dictating that the current generator be retired in the near future.
>> Grid power is a possibility, but we need to offer a viable off grid
>> option
>> as well.
>>
>> My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with
>> large format battery based inverters?   I've heard of some micro-grid
>> systems running in Haiti on Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has
>> a
>> 250 kW inverter that has a "grid forming" mode.  As we all know, it is
>> easier to make claims in spec sheets than to deliver hard motor starting
>> power in a remote location.  We need proven products, with a track
>> record
>> of reliability.
>>
>> We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset
>> fuel
>> consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the generator to
>> maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard starting loads.
>> Ideally we would want to reduce the generator run time to under 200 hrs/
>> yr
>> and reduce its size to 500 kW.  We have excellent solar resources year
>> round, and the possibility of  limiting operations during cloudy weather
>> to
>> meet these goals.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ray Walters
>>
>> Remote Solar
>>
>> ___
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>>
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>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
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>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
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>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

2018-04-25 Thread Darryl Thayer 
you have a problem that is much bigger than I work on.  But on a large
motor heavy starting loads problem, we used an extra capacitor on the  DC
bus of the frequency drive.  the drive on its own greatly reduced the start
surge, if the load can be started slowly.  If the motor must ramp up
quickly the voltage would drop and the capacitor reduced the bump on the
line.  This was a few years ago but we put a 200 HP drive on a 100 HP motor
and added the extra capacitor.  Another trick on a different job was to run
a 3 phase motor with a flywheel and start this motor slowly when the motor
that had to start rapidly the running motor acts as a frequency
stabilizer and dumps it energy into the rapidly starting motor.  again this
was maybe 15 years ago.   these kluge solutions were applied when the
inverter could in no way handle the surge and would kick the inverter off
the line.  Another solution used by Catipiller they had a unit that could
give 3000 amps 480 v0lts for I think 30 seconds running a motor as a
flywheel for UPS giving the generator set time to start.  Check with
Catapiller.  again another project we clutched the running motor to the
load to start the load fast and not have to face starting current. One
last comment we had a 5000 HP motor to start a very heavy load, this motor
had a hydraulic coupling that filled with oil to control the motor load.
But I think a speed drive is more practical.  And there are regen drives
also.

There are some other kluges that can be applied, good luck, sorry if this
is of no value.

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 2:36 PM, Ray  wrote:

> Greetings Fellow Wrenches;
>
> We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that is
> currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set.  The loads are enormous for
> normal off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v 3
> phase.  Surges are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control
> programming to bring that number down substantially.  That is due primarily
> to a 250 Hp motor start. (that's not a typo!). EPA and local regulations
> are dictating that the current generator be retired in the near future.
> Grid power is a possibility, but we need to offer a viable off grid option
> as well.
>
> My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with
> large format battery based inverters?   I've heard of some micro-grid
> systems running in Haiti on Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has a
> 250 kW inverter that has a "grid forming" mode.  As we all know, it is
> easier to make claims in spec sheets than to deliver hard motor starting
> power in a remote location.  We need proven products, with a track record
> of reliability.
>
> We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset fuel
> consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the generator to
> maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard starting loads.
> Ideally we would want to reduce the generator run time to under 200 hrs/ yr
> and reduce its size to 500 kW.  We have excellent solar resources year
> round, and the possibility of  limiting operations during cloudy weather to
> meet these goals.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Walters
>
> Remote Solar
>
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[RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?

2018-04-25 Thread Ray 

Greetings Fellow Wrenches;

We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that 
is currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set.  The loads are enormous for 
normal off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v 3 
phase.  Surges are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control 
programming to bring that number down substantially.  That is due 
primarily to a 250 Hp motor start. (that's not a typo!). EPA and local 
regulations are dictating that the current generator be retired in the 
near future.  Grid power is a possibility, but we need to offer a viable 
off grid option as well.


My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with 
large format battery based inverters?   I've heard of some micro-grid 
systems running in Haiti on Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has 
a 250 kW inverter that has a "grid forming" mode.  As we all know, it is 
easier to make claims in spec sheets than to deliver hard motor starting 
power in a remote location.  We need proven products, with a track 
record of reliability.


We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset 
fuel consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the 
generator to maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard 
starting loads. Ideally we would want to reduce the generator run time 
to under 200 hrs/ yr and reduce its size to 500 kW.  We have excellent 
solar resources year round, and the possibility of  limiting operations 
during cloudy weather to meet these goals.


Thanks,

Ray Walters

Remote Solar

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