Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Bill Carlson]

On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote:

> I'm sorry (really!) that this discussion makes Trond uncomfortable, yet I 
> still believe that it's more than relevant since it provides a wonderful 
> window for Red Hat personnel to learn about what their customers like about 
> the competition. My God... free market research!

I agree, I've used RedHat for years at home as well as work. Seeing the 
news about the potential for an AOL buyout made me see red and not RedHat. 
The only difference between AOL/TW and Microsoft is the color of the tines 
on the pitchfork.


What better way to get the word back to Redhat that a sellout would 
result in a swift change to another distro?

$.02


Bill Carlson
-- 
Systems Programmer[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Anything is possible,
Virtual Hospital  http://www.vh.org/  | given time and money.
University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics  |   
Opinions are mine, not my employer's. | 



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Anthony E. Greene]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Adam Haupt wrote:
>
>To the original thread poster:
>
>Do you walk into a restaurant and ask the staff where a good restaurant is?

I may not ask the paid staff, but I might ask some of the customers. This
support on this list is provided by customers, not paid staff. The paid
staff does frequent the list, but it's not their job. This situation is
understood by most of the active members of the list, including the
original poster. That message was effectively sent to
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, not
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. There is a difference.

>Coming into a Redhat Mailing List and asking to be pointed to a 
>different distro is just plain... DUMB.

I disagree. The question was from one Red Hat user who was considering
switching distros, to other Red Hat users, requesting advice from any who
may have used other distros. It makes perfectly good sense to ask such a
question in a customer supported forum like this.

If this list were a dedicated vendor support forum, staffed by paid
employees, then I would agree with you. But that's not what this is, so
the boundaries are a little different. That might sometimes bother good
people like trond, but this list is a net gain for Red Hat, even if not
everything posted here is flattering to the company.

Tony
- -- 
Anthony E. Greene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
PGP Key: 0x6C94239D/7B3D BD7D 7D91 1B44 BA26 C484 A42A 60DD 6C94 239D
Chat: AOL/Yahoo: TonyG05
Linux. The choice of a GNU generation 

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Re: OT: Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[David Talkington]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Frank Carreiro wrote:

> That is why I responded almost immediately asking him why was he 
>looking for another distro?  It's very possible that RedHat provides 
>whatever he was looking for.  He simply could have been unaware of the 
>"feature".  BTW, he never did reply to my question (or I simply missed 
>it).  What was he looking for that RedHat couldn't do?

Nothing; this all started with a bunch of misguided rants about the
imminent decline of Red Hat brought about by its purchase by AOL,
which now looks at best implausible.  But it did trigger some
interesting philosophical volleys.

- -d

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Re: OT: Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Rodolfo J. Paiz]

At 1/29/2002 11:45 AM -0700, you wrote:
>Oh and yes I've gone to restaurants and asked where I can find a good 
>restaurant... Usually I'm looking for something they don't have (chinese 
>vs italian vs mexican for example).  It's not that unusual of a question 
>guys :-)

As a follow-up, I've point-blank told some restaurants that their food 
looked great but their prices were too expensive, and where else could I 
go? The answer was taken as an indicator of their greed vs. dedication to 
good service, and to those who answered honestly and with interest in mind 
I made a point to return some other time.

"Why don't you like my product?" is a question to which it is difficult to 
get honest answers. A discussion like this is *invaluable* for a company 
looking to improve (even though it is understandably difficult as hell for 
loyal employees to watch someone verbally shred their product).


-- 
Rodolfo J. Paiz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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OT: Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Frank Carreiro]

With that in mind we can safely state the original question was NOT off 
topic.  I'm sorry if some people here are uncomfortable with the 
question but it's also inappropriate to continue this debate as nothing 
will come from it.. except perhaps a new TOS from redhat :-)

I totally agree with Rodolfo's comment below.  This was an opportunity 
for RedHat to "learn" why someone would rather not use their product. 
 That is why I responded almost immediately asking him why was he 
looking for another distro?  It's very possible that RedHat provides 
whatever he was looking for.  He simply could have been unaware of the 
"feature".  BTW, he never did reply to my question (or I simply missed 
it).  What was he looking for that RedHat couldn't do?

Oh and yes I've gone to restaurants and asked where I can find a good 
restaurant... Usually I'm looking for something they don't have (chinese 
vs italian vs mexican for example).  It's not that unusual of a question 
guys :-)


Frank




> At 1/29/2002 01:10 PM -0500, you wrote:
>
>> Bottom line is a representative from Red Hat has already said that the
>> original post in the thread was inappropriate.
>
>
> I disagree, Bob. Trond spoke as an individual as he always does on 
> this list (one of the reasons he can express himself quite freely); he 
> did not represent Red Hat's official position, nor did he claim to do so.
>
> I'm sorry (really!) that this discussion makes Trond uncomfortable, 
> yet I still believe that it's more than relevant since it provides a 
> wonderful window for Red Hat personnel to learn about what their 
> customers like about the competition. My God... free market research!
>
> This list is extremely centered on Red Hat issues, and I believe 
> everyone here runs one or more RHL systems. However, never have I seen 
> anyone say that discussion of Mustangs or Mandrake was forbidden, even 
> though they are indeed off-topic. 




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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Bob Staaf]

> At 1/29/2002 01:10 PM -0500, you wrote:
> >Bottom line is a representative from Red Hat has already said that the
> >original post in the thread was inappropriate.
>
> I disagree, Bob. Trond spoke as an individual as he always does on this
> list (one of the reasons he can express himself quite freely); he did not
> represent Red Hat's official position, nor did he claim to do so.
>
> I'm sorry (really!) that this discussion makes Trond uncomfortable, yet I
> still believe that it's more than relevant since it provides a wonderful
> window for Red Hat personnel to learn about what their customers like
about
> the competition. My God... free market research!
>
> This list is extremely centered on Red Hat issues, and I believe everyone
> here runs one or more RHL systems. However, never have I seen anyone say
> that discussion of Mustangs or Mandrake was forbidden, even though they
are
> indeed off-topic.
>

I think we all just need to agree that we all disagree on this issue as it
isn't going to be resolved in this forum.

Bob




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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[David Talkington]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Matthew Boeckman wrote:

>No. The community support forum is at www.linuxmanagers.org, or a dozen 
>other "generic linux" mailing lists. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a 
>_vendor_specific_ community support forum. Your question 

It wasn't my question.

>is as inappropriate as me asking this list some kernel-related
>questions about SuSE. Sure, there's a chance that someone will have
>an answer, but there are better places to ask that question.

That's different.  No one said, "Hey, help me with Mandrake."  What we
had was something like, "this pisses me off, what are the alternatives
to Red Hat?"  I think Red Hat is good enough to withstand such
questions.  Lettem look around; odds are, they'll probably conclude
that they were doing fine right here.  If you love something, set it
free, and all that jive.  ;-)

Just as in any relationship, I fail to see how stifling dissent or
discussion of why we've made this choice is a bad thing.  Quite the
opposite.

- -d


>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> Adam Haupt wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>Do you walk into a restaurant and ask the staff where a good restaurant is?
>>>
>>>Coming into a Redhat Mailing List and asking to be pointed to a 
>>>different distro is just plain... DUMB.
>>>
>> 
>> Walk into a good record store staffed by people who love music, and 
>> they'll be happy to tell you where to find something they don't carry.  
>> Your comment suggests that you don't fully appreciate the character of 
>> this list.  It is a community forum, not a vendor support line.
>> 
>> - -d
>> 
>> - -- 
>> David Talkington
>> 
>> PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/0xCA4C11AD.pgp
>> - --
>> http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/pale_blue_dot.html
>> 
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>> rCeZYWvF/Gce0waDNiEHtHcW
>> =/mc7
>> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>
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>

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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Rodolfo J. Paiz]

At 1/29/2002 01:10 PM -0500, you wrote:
>Bottom line is a representative from Red Hat has already said that the
>original post in the thread was inappropriate.

I disagree, Bob. Trond spoke as an individual as he always does on this 
list (one of the reasons he can express himself quite freely); he did not 
represent Red Hat's official position, nor did he claim to do so.

I'm sorry (really!) that this discussion makes Trond uncomfortable, yet I 
still believe that it's more than relevant since it provides a wonderful 
window for Red Hat personnel to learn about what their customers like about 
the competition. My God... free market research!

This list is extremely centered on Red Hat issues, and I believe everyone 
here runs one or more RHL systems. However, never have I seen anyone say 
that discussion of Mustangs or Mandrake was forbidden, even though they are 
indeed off-topic.


-- 
Rodolfo J. Paiz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[David Talkington]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Bob Staaf wrote:

>> >Do you walk into a restaurant and ask the staff where a good restaurant
>is?
>> >
>> >Coming into a Redhat Mailing List and asking to be pointed to a
>> >different distro is just plain... DUMB.
>>
>> Walk into a good record store staffed by people who love music, and
>> they'll be happy to tell you where to find something they don't carry.
>> Your comment suggests that you don't fully appreciate the character of
>> this list.  It is a community forum, not a vendor support line.
>>
>
>Bottom line is a representative from Red Hat has already said that
>the original post in the thread was inappropriate.  I don't see where
>the argument is.

There is no argument, just a difference of opinion.  What I (and
others here) maintain is that for as long as Red Hat relies on the
community for support for its products, that community will speak
freely.  That's as it should be, and contributes to the strength and
reputation of this product.  If you want a controlled forum which
suppresses comments which are not in the vendor's interest, you're in
the wrong place (and using the wrong product).

- -d


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PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/0xCA4C11AD.pgp
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Matthew Boeckman]

No. The community support forum is at www.linuxmanagers.org, or a dozen 
other "generic linux" mailing lists. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a 
_vendor_specific_ community support forum. Your question is as 
inappropriate as me asking this list some kernel-related questions about 
SuSE. Sure, there's a chance that someone will have an answer, but there 
are better places to ask that question.



David Talkington wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Adam Haupt wrote:
> 
> 
>>Do you walk into a restaurant and ask the staff where a good restaurant is?
>>
>>Coming into a Redhat Mailing List and asking to be pointed to a 
>>different distro is just plain... DUMB.
>>
> 
> Walk into a good record store staffed by people who love music, and 
> they'll be happy to tell you where to find something they don't carry.  
> Your comment suggests that you don't fully appreciate the character of 
> this list.  It is a community forum, not a vendor support line.
> 
> - -d
> 
> - -- 
> David Talkington
> 
> PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/0xCA4C11AD.pgp
> - --
> http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/pale_blue_dot.html
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: PGP 6.5.8
> Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.75-6
> 
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> rCeZYWvF/Gce0waDNiEHtHcW
> =/mc7
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 


-- 
Matthew Boeckman(816) 777-2160
Manager - Systems Integration   Saepio Technologies
== 
==
Public Notice as Required by Law: Any Use of This Product, in
Any Manner Whatsoever, Will Increase the Amount of Disorder in the Universe.
Although No Liability Is Implied Herein, the Consumer Is Warned That This
Process Will Ultimately Lead to the Heat Death of the Universe.



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Bob Staaf]

> Adam Haupt wrote:
>
> >Do you walk into a restaurant and ask the staff where a good restaurant
is?
> >
> >Coming into a Redhat Mailing List and asking to be pointed to a
> >different distro is just plain... DUMB.
>
> Walk into a good record store staffed by people who love music, and
> they'll be happy to tell you where to find something they don't carry.
> Your comment suggests that you don't fully appreciate the character of
> this list.  It is a community forum, not a vendor support line.
>

Bottom line is a representative from Red Hat has already said that the
original post in the thread was inappropriate.  I don't see where the
argument is.  There are plenty of vendor neutral linux lists out there.
This isn't one of them.

Bob



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[David Talkington]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Adam Haupt wrote:

>Do you walk into a restaurant and ask the staff where a good restaurant is?
>
>Coming into a Redhat Mailing List and asking to be pointed to a 
>different distro is just plain... DUMB.

Walk into a good record store staffed by people who love music, and 
they'll be happy to tell you where to find something they don't carry.  
Your comment suggests that you don't fully appreciate the character of 
this list.  It is a community forum, not a vendor support line.

- -d

- -- 
David Talkington

PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/0xCA4C11AD.pgp
- --
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=/mc7
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Adam Haupt]

To the original thread poster:

Do you walk into a restaurant and ask the staff where a good restaurant is?

Coming into a Redhat Mailing List and asking to be pointed to a 
different distro is just plain... DUMB.



Bob Staaf wrote:

> Freedom of speech does not mean that you can say whatever you want, whenever
> you want and wherever you want.  It has limits!  It is people like you who
> abuse the freedoms we all enjoy who put those very freedoms at risk for the
> rest of us.
> 
> My 2 cents, take them or leave them, I really don't care!
> 
> Bob
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Allen Wayne Best" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?
> 
> 
> this smacks of typical
> a) microsoft remarks
> b) nazi's
> c) communists
> d) those who are only interested in their opinion
> 
> actually the above is redundant.
> 
> let freedom ring
> 
> On Monday 21 January 2002 08:24, Trond Eivind Glomsrød pronounced:
> 
>>John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>>
>>>If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
>>>the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
>>>
>>That's a very inapproriate question on this list.
>>
>>--
>>Trond Eivind Glomsrød
>>Red Hat, Inc.
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
> 




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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Bob Staaf]

Freedom of speech does not mean that you can say whatever you want, whenever
you want and wherever you want.  It has limits!  It is people like you who
abuse the freedoms we all enjoy who put those very freedoms at risk for the
rest of us.

My 2 cents, take them or leave them, I really don't care!

Bob

- Original Message -
From: "Allen Wayne Best" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?


this smacks of typical
a) microsoft remarks
b) nazi's
c) communists
d) those who are only interested in their opinion

actually the above is redundant.

let freedom ring

On Monday 21 January 2002 08:24, Trond Eivind Glomsrød pronounced:
> John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
> > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
>
> That's a very inapproriate question on this list.
>
> --
> Trond Eivind Glomsrød
> Red Hat, Inc.





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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Rodolfo J. Paiz]

At 1/29/2002 07:38 AM -0800, you wrote:
>On Jan 21, 2002, 10:35 (-0800) someone wrote:
>
> > this smacks of typical
> > a) microsoft remarks
> > b) nazi's
>
>... if you are serious with this remark: I find it insulting:
>insulting first to the Nazi-victims themselves and secondly to Trond

Amen. I did not see this one go by, hence didn't respond. But please, do 
not trivialize the losses incurred by the entire world in order to insult 
someone who (despite going against the majority in this case) is one of the 
most valued and respected members of our community.

Earn the right to criticize; then do so in a civilized fashion; or begone.


-- 
Rodolfo J. Paiz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Wolfgang Pfeiffer]

On Jan 21, 2002, 10:35 (-0800) someone wrote:

> this smacks of typical
> a) microsoft remarks
> b) nazi's

... if you are serious with this remark: I find it insulting:
insulting first to the Nazi-victims themselves and secondly to Trond   
  
E.  Glomsrød: although I absolutely do not agree with Trond as to
whether it is appropriate or not to discuss distro changes here: this
freedom of speech issue is nothing compared to 40-60 Million dead
people
during Nazi-time the Germans are responsible for.

Wolfgang

> c) communists
> d) those who are only interested in their opinion
> 
> actually the above is redundant.
> 
> let freedom ring
> 
> On Monday 21 January 2002 08:24, Trond Eivind Glomsrød pronounced:
> > John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what
would be
> > > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> > 
> > That's a very inapproriate question on this list.
> >   
> > --
> > Trond Eivind Glomsrød
> > Red Hat, Inc.

--
http://www.geocities.com/wolfgangpfeiffer/w3m.html

  
-- END TRANSMISSION --


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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Allen Wayne Best]

this smacks of typical
a) microsoft remarks
b) nazi's
c) communists
d) those who are only interested in their opinion

actually the above is redundant.

let freedom ring

On Monday 21 January 2002 08:24, Trond Eivind Glomsrød pronounced:
> John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
> > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> 
> That's a very inapproriate question on this list. 
> 
> -- 
> Trond Eivind Glomsrød
> Red Hat, Inc.

-- 
regards,
allen wayne best, esq
redhat stockholder
"your friendly neighborhood rambler owner"
"my rambler will go from 0 to 105"
Current date: 29:33:10::20:2002

Pray to God, but keep rowing to shore.
 -- Russian Proverb



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Allen Wayne Best]

this smacks of typical
a) microsoft remarks
b) nazi's
c) communists
d) those who are only interested in their opinion

actually the above is redundant.

let freedom ring

On Monday 21 January 2002 08:24, Trond Eivind Glomsrød pronounced:
> John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
> > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> 
> That's a very inapproriate question on this list. 
> 
> -- 
> Trond Eivind Glomsrød
> Red Hat, Inc.

-- 
regards,
allen wayne best, esq
redhat stockholder
"your friendly neighborhood rambler owner"
"my rambler will go from 0 to 105"
Current date: 29:33:10::20:2002

Pray to God, but keep rowing to shore.
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Edward C. Bailey]

> "Nick" == Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
...
Nick> If Trond speaks officially for RH we're all in a bad way because with
Nick> that kind of attitude from the Vendor I don't think many people would
Nick> be waiting to see what happens with RH/AOL.

Trond doesn't speak officially for Red Hat any more than I do.  He just
happened to act on the discomfort I'm sure all the Red Hatters on this list
feel at seeing this kind of discussion here.

My personal feeling on this is that I can deal with some discomfort in the
hopes of learning something from y'all.  But I confess that sometimes such
situations have a rather strange feeling to them.  :-}

Ed
-- 
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 22-01-02 at 16:50 
* Frank Carreiro said

> You must have confused the original posters message with someone else.
> 
> I thought it was gently put (as much as possible).  Offensive? 
> considering the below posting I'd say the original post was much more 
> appropriate than this.
> 
> >
> >... It is rude and offensive here, no different than
> >propositioning the chaste hostess: "Want to f*ck at a motel?"  
> >at a formal dinner party in the presence of her husband.
> >
> >There are plenty of other venue to ply such troll-ish conduct
> >in.  Begone to them.

Yeah, this guy just think's he's sooo witty.
I found that to be the most inapropriate comment I've seen in a long
time. Are you guys familiar with the English word 'Pillock'?
Hehe, only kidding, I wouldn't want to be held responsible for bringing
the tone of this thread down any further than Mr. Witty.

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Frank Carreiro]

You must have confused the original posters message with someone else.

I thought it was gently put (as much as possible).  Offensive? 
 considering the below posting I'd say the original post was much more 
appropriate than this.



>
>... It is rude and offensive here, no different than
>propositioning the chaste hostess: "Want to f*ck at a motel?"  
>at a formal dinner party in the presence of her husband.
>
>There are plenty of other venue to ply such troll-ish conduct
>in.  Begone to them.
>



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 22-01-02 at 09:17 
* David Talkington said

> 
> This is silly, folks.  I will agree that the tone of some posts to
> this thread has been quite rude, and that much of the bleating was of

I disagree, maybe i've missed some but I think that all of the posts
have been quite polite dispite the sensitive subject. There was a *very*
'tongue in cheek' response to Trond's rater ill advised post asking him
if he wished to be quoted on Slashdot and of course my laughter at that
post. But I think people have all been quite responsible on the whole.

> here, that it's any less rude to suggest that we should not speak our
> minds freely, or that the original question was inappropriate.

Agreed. Very ill informed as I said. If Trond speaks officially for RH
we're all in a bad way because with that kind of attitude from the
Vendor I don't think many people would be waiting to see what happens
with RH/AOL.


- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Monte Milanuk]

On Monday 21 January 2002 12:56, daniel wrote:
> i've heard nothing but good things about slackware
> since going that route apparently gives you total control
>   i can't speak from experience there though
>
> i CAN however speak of SuSE
> in a phrase: don't like it
> everything in the os is "special"
> programs and config files are kept in odd places
> and the suse boot concept is non-linux standard as well
>

That's interesting.  Oddly enough, SuSE claims to be the most LSB compliant 
distro out there.  So who has the files in weird places now?  I will agree, 
though, that it (SuSE) does give the impression that changes had better be 
made w/ their special tools, or else.  In fact, there is an option to disable 
the SuSEconfig tool, but it specifically states not to come to them for 
support after turning it off and mucking up your system.  6 one way, half a 
dozen another, as far as I'm concerned.

Monte

Monte


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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Manuel A. Camacho Q.]

Trond, if I were a RH employee, I would take this chance to understand
not only how the AOL aquisition of RH would affect the customers we
*already* have, but also what is the real competitive advantage of the
company and/or product.

Haven't anyone wondered yet why, if so many ppl in this thread is saying
positive things about other distros, they still use RH? What haven't the
competitors done so far that this ppl are still RHs customers? How close
are the competitors to achieve what the customers expect from a superior
distribution?

I just think it is nice to look at things from a couple of different
perspectives, and take advantage from the available information.

-Manuel


P.D.: I think Linux From Scratch is a good option. So you wont be
depending on any specific distribution.

Trond Eivind Glomsrød wrote:
> 
> nit etc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > --- Trond Eivind Glomsrød <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >
> > > > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another
> > > distro, what would be
> > > > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> > >
> > > That's a very inapproriate question on this list.
> >
> > I disagree. The author of the email wants to know of
> > other distributions that are similar to 'Redhat', and
> > that sounds pretty on-topic to me.
> >
> > I see that you are an employee of Redhat. I'd be
> > careful of such comments if I were you; you wouldn't
> > want something on Slashdot or Linuxtoday with the
> > topic of "Redhat censors their mailing lists"
> 
> We don't. But switching away from RHL is, IMNSHO, better discussed on
> non-RH lists.
> --
> Trond Eivind Glomsrød
> Red Hat, Inc.
> 
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[David Talkington]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

R P Herrold wrote:

>> * Trond Eivind Glomsrød said
>
>> > That's a very inapproriate question on this list. 
>> 
>> Why?
>> In light of other threads expressing the fears of many RH users about
>> this RH/AOL malarky I think it's *very* relevant.
>
>... It is rude and offensive here, no different than
>propositioning the chaste hostess: "Want to f*ck at a motel?"  
>at a formal dinner party in the presence of her husband.
>
>There are plenty of other venue to ply such troll-ish conduct
>in.  Begone to them.

This is silly, folks.  I will agree that the tone of some posts to
this thread has been quite rude, and that much of the bleating was of
the unenlightened, kneejerk variety.  But I hardly think, since
community volunteers carry much of the weight of the support duties
here, that it's any less rude to suggest that we should not speak our
minds freely, or that the original question was inappropriate.

Quality speaks for itself.  For as long as Red Hat maintains its
standards, the community isn't going anywhere, and I'll continue to
buy my copy every 6 months.  I don't see anything wrong with
periodically questioning our vendor decisions, and I think it's
equally valuable for Red Hat to witness the discussions, even if
they're occasionally rude and uncalled for.  You can sometimes learn
as much from your thoughtful detractors as from your fans.

That is my humble opinion.

- -d

- -- 
David Talkington

PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/0xCA4C11AD.pgp
- --
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[R P Herrold]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002, Nick Wilson wrote:

> * Trond Eivind Glomsrød said

> > That's a very inapproriate question on this list. 
> 
> Why?
> In light of other threads expressing the fears of many RH users about
> this RH/AOL malarky I think it's *very* relevant.

... It is rude and offensive here, no different than
propositioning the chaste hostess: "Want to f*ck at a motel?"  
at a formal dinner party in the presence of her husband.

There are plenty of other venue to ply such troll-ish conduct
in.  Begone to them.

--

  Why is an AOL ownership of RH scary?  They are spending the
market cap (1.6B$) not to kill Red Hat -- AOL is trying to
spend to avoid being killed (bled to death; having its air
supply cut off) by MS.

They (AOL) are trying to buy RH to roll what they consider a
mature OS onto desktops, selling a service -- Consider the 
marketing pitch:

For your AOL $25 a month, you NOW get a free selection of
polished word processor, spreadsheet, Photoshop, local games
(FreeCell), network games (a la EverQuest) ...  which inter op
with and look just like the MS or Adobe product.  Along with
Web and email and universal IRC/Chat Rooms.  They are already
used to pipe-lineing updates during a session, and so it
self-maintains as part of the bundle, for 'free'.  And it 
never crashes.

0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0

-- IF Charlotte were wiped off the Earth tomorrow, I'd start
selling Owl River Linux two weeks later, and with 90 % of the
RH featureset (including an automated backend development
operation support) off the bat.  I'd offer to hire (or a piece
of the action in a partnership, a la the accountancy firms)
the best and the brightest Red Hat'ians left -- They're not
hard to find -- they each sign their commits in Changelogs
every day (unlike other vendors); In working with them, I
find they are a unusually _nice_ group of people.

I mirror and archive all sources, and have for years -- and I
am not alone.  RH is a good GPL citizen (probably the best of
the commercial packagers), and the GPL builds on itself
forever.

-- Russ Herrold



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations? - freebsd

[Frank Carreiro]

Not the installation of software but the installation of FreeBSD itself. 
 It's very easy for a newbie to screw it up (the installation).  After 
using redhat these last few years I admit I'm spoiled :-)

Installation of the FreeBSD packages is rather easy.  pkg_add feels 
almost like Solaris's implementation.

BTW, their website has some great documentation available for anyone 
interested.

www.freebsd.org

As I understand it they also have better SMP support than any Linux 
distro today (Is this true?).

Frank



adrian kok wrote:

>Hi Frank
>
>I don't think it is difficult to install software in
>freebsd
>
>In fact, it depends on you are familiar this product
>or not.
>
>Before I found RH rpm also is difficult because of
>many dependiences!!!
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Frank Carreiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "redhat list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:10 PM
>Subject: Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro:
>recommendations?
>
>
>>If not SUSE then Slackware isn't bad.  I've messed
>>
>with it awhile back 
>
>>and my experience was positive.
>>
>>Also FreeBSD isn't bad.  I'm currently working with
>>
>a FreeBSD system 
>
>>(version 4.4) and so far it's been stable and runs
>>
>what I want just fine.
>
>>The ONLY thing I HATED about FreeBSD was the
>>
>installer.  I've butchered 
>
>>it (the install) my first couple of tries.  On my
>>
>third attempt I simply 
>
>>let it decide how to setup the kernel / hardware. 
>>
>Worked fine at that 
>
>>point :-)
>>
>>I just hope AOL doesn't screw up RedHat should they
>>
>decide to acquire 
>
>>them.  RedHat IMHO is one of the better packages out
>>
>there. 
>
>> Installation is very easy and use of the product
>>
>overall is easy for 
>
>>the newbie to the hard core user/developer.
>>
>>/me nudges AOL... you hearing any of this guys?
>>
>>Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>>i've heard nothing but good things about slackware
>>>since going that route apparently gives you total
>>>
>control
>
>>> i can't speak from experience there though
>>>
>>>i CAN however speak of SuSE
>>>in a phrase: don't like it
>>>everything in the os is "special"
>>>programs and config files are kept in odd places
>>>and the suse boot concept is non-linux standard as
>>>
>well
>
>>>i rather like redhat
>>>but if they get with aol
>>>even a little
>>>i'm leaving.
>>> i'll try out mandrake
>>>and then if that doesn't work
>>>
>
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations? - freebsd

[adrian kok]

Hi Frank

I don't think it is difficult to install software in
freebsd

In fact, it depends on you are familiar this product
or not.

Before I found RH rpm also is difficult because of
many dependiences!!!


- Original Message - 
From: "Frank Carreiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "redhat list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro:
recommendations?


> If not SUSE then Slackware isn't bad.  I've messed
with it awhile back 
> and my experience was positive.
> 
> Also FreeBSD isn't bad.  I'm currently working with
a FreeBSD system 
> (version 4.4) and so far it's been stable and runs
what I want just fine.
> 
> The ONLY thing I HATED about FreeBSD was the
installer.  I've butchered 
> it (the install) my first couple of tries.  On my
third attempt I simply 
> let it decide how to setup the kernel / hardware. 
Worked fine at that 
> point :-)
> 
> I just hope AOL doesn't screw up RedHat should they
decide to acquire 
> them.  RedHat IMHO is one of the better packages out
there. 
>  Installation is very easy and use of the product
overall is easy for 
> the newbie to the hard core user/developer.
> 
> /me nudges AOL... you hearing any of this guys?
> 
> Frank
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >i've heard nothing but good things about slackware
> >since going that route apparently gives you total
control
> >  i can't speak from experience there though
> >
> >i CAN however speak of SuSE
> >in a phrase: don't like it
> >everything in the os is "special"
> >programs and config files are kept in odd places
> >and the suse boot concept is non-linux standard as
well
> >
> >i rather like redhat
> >but if they get with aol
> >even a little
> >i'm leaving.
> >  i'll try out mandrake
> >and then if that doesn't work

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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Frank Carreiro]

If not SUSE then Slackware isn't bad.  I've messed with it awhile back 
and my experience was positive.

Also FreeBSD isn't bad.  I'm currently working with a FreeBSD system 
(version 4.4) and so far it's been stable and runs what I want just fine.

The ONLY thing I HATED about FreeBSD was the installer.  I've butchered 
it (the install) my first couple of tries.  On my third attempt I simply 
let it decide how to setup the kernel / hardware.  Worked fine at that 
point :-)

I just hope AOL doesn't screw up RedHat should they decide to acquire 
them.  RedHat IMHO is one of the better packages out there. 
 Installation is very easy and use of the product overall is easy for 
the newbie to the hard core user/developer.

/me nudges AOL... you hearing any of this guys?

Frank



>
>i've heard nothing but good things about slackware
>since going that route apparently gives you total control
>  i can't speak from experience there though
>
>i CAN however speak of SuSE
>in a phrase: don't like it
>everything in the os is "special"
>programs and config files are kept in odd places
>and the suse boot concept is non-linux standard as well
>
>i rather like redhat
>but if they get with aol
>even a little
>i'm leaving.
>  i'll try out mandrake
>and then if that doesn't work
>i'm going to slackware
>



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Michael Scottaline]

On 21 Jan 2002 14:42:52 -0600
Bret Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> scribbled in frustration:

> On Mon, 2002-01-21 at 13:16, Trond Eivind Glomsrød wrote:
> 
> > We don't. But switching away from RHL is, IMNSHO, better discussed on
> > non-RH lists.
> > -- 
> 
> I for one appreciate the loyalty to your employer that you show by your
> comments Trond.  It does not seem the norm nowadays.  It is exactly the
> employees like you that are (and should be) proud of building a product
> and even an apparently working business model that would make RH a
> viable target for acqusition.
> 
> I do not however agree with your comments.  Why would it be pertainent
> for a debian list for instance to be discussing what would you switch to
> if you left Red Hat?  Since they are not, by and large, Red Hat Linux
> users it would not apply.
==
There are several distro agnostic lists to ask:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  come to mind. Mike

-- 
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fighting, killing, and dreadful idolatry took place there."
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[daniel]

i've heard nothing but good things about slackware
since going that route apparently gives you total control
  i can't speak from experience there though

i CAN however speak of SuSE
in a phrase: don't like it
everything in the os is "special"
programs and config files are kept in odd places
and the suse boot concept is non-linux standard as well

i rather like redhat
but if they get with aol
even a little
i'm leaving.
  i'll try out mandrake
and then if that doesn't work
i'm going to slackware


- Original Message -
From: "Mac ADd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?



>> > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another
>> distro, what would be
>> > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?

Bandwidth spartanly:

Be a Man! (Or *really* butch...)

GET SLACK!!!

  HTTP://WWW.SlackWare.Com
  HTTP://WWW.SubGenius.Com

Woop. ;))

All the best,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

At 08:33 2002.01.21 -0800, nit etc wrote:

>--- Trond Eivind Glomsrød <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another
>> distro, what would be
>> > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
>>
>> That's a very inapproriate question on this list.
>>
>> --
>> Trond Eivind Glomsrød
>> Red Hat, Inc.
>
>I disagree. The author of the email wants to know of
>other distributions that are similar to 'Redhat', and
>that sounds pretty on-topic to me.
>
>I see that you are an employee of Redhat. I'd be
>careful of such comments if I were you; you wouldn't
>want something on Slashdot or Linuxtoday with the
>topic of "Redhat censors their mailing lists" or
>"Redhat doesn't like when you talk about other
>distributions on their mailing list", would you?
>Besides, no where in the mailing-list info does it
>list that it is 'inappropriate' to post questions like
>the above.
>
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Bret Hughes]

On Mon, 2002-01-21 at 13:16, Trond Eivind Glomsrød wrote:

> We don't. But switching away from RHL is, IMNSHO, better discussed on
> non-RH lists.
> -- 

I for one appreciate the loyalty to your employer that you show by your
comments Trond.  It does not seem the norm nowadays.  It is exactly the
employees like you that are (and should be) proud of building a product
and even an apparently working business model that would make RH a
viable target for acqusition.

I do not however agree with your comments.  Why would it be pertainent
for a debian list for instance to be discussing what would you switch to
if you left Red Hat?  Since they are not, by and large, Red Hat Linux
users it would not apply.

I do however as I said can understand your discomfort with such
discussions.

Bret 



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Timothy R. Butler]

> To John Verel:  I recommend either Mandrake or SUSE.  Both have been VERY
> good distro's in the past and have been happy with them.  I've pretty much
> standardized on RedHat personally.

  I would agree. I switched from RH to SuSE after RH 5.1, and then went to 
MDK in November. Just keep in mind that while Mandrake shares RedHat's 
commitment to Free Software, SuSE does not (YaST uses a license similar to 
Microsoft Shared Source). If this isn't important to you either is a good 
choice, if it is, then you probably do not want to switch to SuSE.

  -Tim

-- 

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ICQ: 12495932 AIM: Uninettm
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Nick Wilson]

* On 21-01-02 at 20:22 
* Trond Eivind Glomsrød said

> > I see that you are an employee of Redhat. I'd be
> > careful of such comments if I were you; you wouldn't
> > want something on Slashdot or Linuxtoday with the
> > topic of "Redhat censors their mailing lists" 
> 
> We don't. But switching away from RHL is, IMNSHO, better discussed on
> non-RH lists.

Please explain this interesting line of thought Trond, and let us know
if you speak for RH or not.

-- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Trond Eivind Glomsrød]

nit etc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> --- Trond Eivind Glomsrød <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another
> > distro, what would be
> > > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> > 
> > That's a very inapproriate question on this list. 
> 
> I disagree. The author of the email wants to know of
> other distributions that are similar to 'Redhat', and
> that sounds pretty on-topic to me.
> 
> I see that you are an employee of Redhat. I'd be
> careful of such comments if I were you; you wouldn't
> want something on Slashdot or Linuxtoday with the
> topic of "Redhat censors their mailing lists" 

We don't. But switching away from RHL is, IMNSHO, better discussed on
non-RH lists.
-- 
Trond Eivind Glomsrød
Red Hat, Inc.



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[ABrady]

Frank Carreiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> implied:


> To redhat:  I was unaware this list has a terms of usage policy
> disallowing such discussion. This comment doesn't serve a purpose.


> To John Verel:  I recommend either Mandrake or SUSE.  Both have been
 > VERY good distro's in the past and have been happy with them.  I've
>  pretty much standardized on RedHat personally.

> Out of curiosity why are you thinking of switching?  Is there
something
> RedHat Linux isn't providing you?  By all means please let us know.
You
> might be surprised to find what you are looking for here. :-)

Not to answer for anybody else, but I think he was reacting to the news
that AOL is in talks to buy Redhat out.

Some want to jump ship, some don't. I'm going to take a wait and see
attitude. For one thing, they're talks; nothing is settled. For another,
nobody has any real idea what the result will be in the short or long
term.

Some want nothing whatsoever to do with AOL. I certainly understand
that. But I also know of all of the others' releases I've tried, they
all either didn't work, or they didn't meet my desires.

I'll look at others now so I don't have to spend a lot of time doing it
later, if/when the need arises. Until I see something that doesn't look
like the future holds any hope, I'm willing to wait and watch as things
transpire, and leave whenever it becomes clear that the direction things
are going are not to my liking. But, that's always been what I'm doing.
I'll just watch more closely now that events have turned in this
direction.

--
Microsoft: The company the made email dangerous.




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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Mac ADd]

>> > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another
>> distro, what would be
>> > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?

Bandwidth spartanly: 

Be a Man! (Or *really* butch...)

GET SLACK!!! 

  HTTP://WWW.SlackWare.Com
  HTTP://WWW.SubGenius.Com

Woop. ;))

All the best,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

At 08:33 2002.01.21 -0800, nit etc wrote:

>--- Trond Eivind Glomsrød <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> 
>> > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another
>> distro, what would be
>> > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
>> 
>> That's a very inapproriate question on this list. 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Trond Eivind Glomsrød
>> Red Hat, Inc. 
>
>I disagree. The author of the email wants to know of
>other distributions that are similar to 'Redhat', and
>that sounds pretty on-topic to me.
>
>I see that you are an employee of Redhat. I'd be
>careful of such comments if I were you; you wouldn't
>want something on Slashdot or Linuxtoday with the
>topic of "Redhat censors their mailing lists" or
>"Redhat doesn't like when you talk about other
>distributions on their mailing list", would you?
>Besides, no where in the mailing-list info does it
>list that it is 'inappropriate' to post questions like
>the above.
>
>__
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Frank Carreiro]

To redhat:  I was unaware this list has a terms of usage policy disallowing such 
discussion. This comment doesn't serve a purpose.


To John Verel:  I recommend either Mandrake or SUSE.  Both have been VERY good 
distro's in the past and have been happy with them.  I've pretty much standardized on 
RedHat personally.

Out of curiosity why are you thinking of switching?  Is there something RedHat Linux 
isn't providing you?  By all means please let us know.  You might be surprised to find 
what you are looking for here. :-)

Frank



John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


>> If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would
>
be

>> the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
>

That's a very inapproriate question on this list. 

-- Trond Eivind Glomsrød Red Hat, Inc.




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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 17:39 
* nit etc said

> 
> I see that you are an employee of Redhat. I'd be
> careful of such comments if I were you; you wouldn't
> want something on Slashdot or Linuxtoday with the
> topic of "Redhat censors their mailing lists" or
> "Redhat doesn't like when you talk about other
> distributions on their mailing list", would you?

Ha ha, yeah would really be a blunder and a half. 
Freedom of speach as long as your not slagging off RH!

Classic.
- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



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RE: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Brad Bonkoski]

Title: RE: Changing from Red Hat to another distro:  recommendations?





Gosh I think idle threats like this are inappropriate as they waste value bandwidth.  
(and I am *NOT* a redhat employee)


As for the original question, Mandrake was spun off of Redhat and is thus very similar. 
There are many,many choices out there, and it is always good to play with others even if Red Hat is your primary, IMHO.
-Brad


> -Original Message-
> From: nit etc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 9:33 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?
> 
> 
> 
> --- Trond Eivind Glomsrød <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another
> > distro, what would be
> > > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> > 
> > That's a very inapproriate question on this list. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Trond Eivind Glomsrød
> > Red Hat, Inc. 
> 
> I disagree. The author of the email wants to know of
> other distributions that are similar to 'Redhat', and
> that sounds pretty on-topic to me.
> 
> I see that you are an employee of Redhat. I'd be
> careful of such comments if I were you; you wouldn't
> want something on Slashdot or Linuxtoday with the
> topic of "Redhat censors their mailing lists" or
> "Redhat doesn't like when you talk about other
> distributions on their mailing list", would you?
> Besides, no where in the mailing-list info does it
> list that it is 'inappropriate' to post questions like
> the above.
> 
> __
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[nit etc]

--- Trond Eivind Glomsrød <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another
> distro, what would be
> > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> 
> That's a very inapproriate question on this list. 
> 
> -- 
> Trond Eivind Glomsrød
> Red Hat, Inc. 

I disagree. The author of the email wants to know of
other distributions that are similar to 'Redhat', and
that sounds pretty on-topic to me.

I see that you are an employee of Redhat. I'd be
careful of such comments if I were you; you wouldn't
want something on Slashdot or Linuxtoday with the
topic of "Redhat censors their mailing lists" or
"Redhat doesn't like when you talk about other
distributions on their mailing list", would you?
Besides, no where in the mailing-list info does it
list that it is 'inappropriate' to post questions like
the above.

__
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Nick Wilson]

* On 21-01-02 at 17:29 
* Trond Eivind Glomsrød said

> > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
> > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> 
> That's a very inapproriate question on this list. 

Why?
In light of other threads expressing the fears of many RH users about
this RH/AOL malarky I think it's *very* relevant.

-- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com






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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Trond Eivind Glomsrød]

John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
> the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?

That's a very inapproriate question on this list. 

-- 
Trond Eivind Glomsrød
Red Hat, Inc.



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Ed Wilts]

> Interesting to note that several contributors to this thread were using
> Outlook Express?

I'm one of them.  What's your point?  I"ve got 2 systems sitting in front of
me - one's running Red Hat Linux 7.1 and is my web/DNS/e-mail server, and
one's running Win2K.  My primary desktop at home used to be Red Hat Linux
(with the Ximian desktop and evolution), but I recently switched to Win2K
for it.  My mail sometimes get read with OE (IMAP to my Linux system) and
sometimes with Mutt.  I've also got another couple of Windows systems.  At
work, I manage Red Hat Linux systems and VMS systems.

Ed Wilts
Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Tracker]

Nick Wilson wrote:

>-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>Hash: SHA1
>
>
>* On 21-01-02 at 09:03 
>* ABrady said
>
>>On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:53:30 -0500
>>John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> implied:
>>
>>>If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would
>>>be the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
>>>
>>Mandrake was an offshoot of Redhat. They're still similar, but Mandrake
>>has gone off in slightly different directions. Even so, some RPMs can be
>>installed interchangably, and many others only require the satisfying of
>>some dependencies. Except for some tools, this would likely be one of
>>the easiest possible transitions.
>>
>
>I agree, Mandrake has a very similar feel to it but were I changing I
>think I'd probably consider Debian or SuSe as I've so many good things
>about both.
>
>Interesting to note that several contributors to this thread were using
>Outlook Express?
>
>- -- 
>
>Nick Wilson
>
>Tel:   +45 3325 0688
>Fax:   +45 3325 0677
>Web:   www.explodingnet.com
>
>
>
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>=hQE4
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>
>
>
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>
> msg.pgp
>
> Content-Type:
>
> text/plain
>
>
that sounds again like windows, or even aol taken over rh so they can be 
top of the monopoly. the point I thought was to stay away from windows 
or anything like that... isnt that what aol will do is turn itself into 
another view of windows just what they see it?




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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 12:18 
* ABrady said
> 
> I can't recommend Debian simply because I've tried installing it 10-15
> times on 3 different machines with 2 different releases. It failed every
> time on a hardware issue. Not something weird, but relatively common
> hardware (aha152x module, aic7xxx module, a plain jane ATAPI cd drive).
> 
> I can't recommedn SuSE because I bought a release a couple of years ago,
>  but other priorities prevented me from ever installing it. Now that
> release is too old to even bother testing it, and I won't buy another
> until I'm sure I'll get around to testing it properly.
> 
> I hear good things about both. I just can't put my name to them. OTH, I
> have installed Mandrake a few times, though it's been 2 or 3 relases
> back since the last. It seemed relatively good with the toying around
> I've done with it.
> 
> > Interesting to note that several contributors to this thread were
> > using Outlook Express?
> 
> I was at work at the time. I'm stuck using what work uses when I'm
> there, which is NT. I have no such limitation while at home as this
> email will show. I also made sure I turned outgoing mail to plain text
> when using Express Outhouse, something that more people should take the
> time to do before posting.
> 
Of course, didn't think of that! Yes people should sort out their mail
format but unfortunately it's another of those things that many people
just don't know about. Sometimes it's hard to understand that not
*everybody* loves tech.

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[ABrady]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:15:23 +0100
Nick Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> implied:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> * On 21-01-02 at 09:03 
> * ABrady said
> 
> > On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:53:30 -0500
> > John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> implied:
> > 
> > > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what
> > > would be the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> > 
> > Mandrake was an offshoot of Redhat. They're still similar, but
> > Mandrake has gone off in slightly different directions. Even so,
> > some RPMs can be installed interchangably, and many others only
> > require the satisfying of some dependencies. Except for some tools,
> > this would likely be one of the easiest possible transitions.
> 
> I agree, Mandrake has a very similar feel to it but were I changing I
> think I'd probably consider Debian or SuSe as I've so many good things
> about both.

I can't recommend Debian simply because I've tried installing it 10-15
times on 3 different machines with 2 different releases. It failed every
time on a hardware issue. Not something weird, but relatively common
hardware (aha152x module, aic7xxx module, a plain jane ATAPI cd drive).

I can't recommedn SuSE because I bought a release a couple of years ago,
 but other priorities prevented me from ever installing it. Now that
release is too old to even bother testing it, and I won't buy another
until I'm sure I'll get around to testing it properly.

I hear good things about both. I just can't put my name to them. OTH, I
have installed Mandrake a few times, though it's been 2 or 3 relases
back since the last. It seemed relatively good with the toying around
I've done with it.

> Interesting to note that several contributors to this thread were
> using Outlook Express?

I was at work at the time. I'm stuck using what work uses when I'm
there, which is NT. I have no such limitation while at home as this
email will show. I also made sure I turned outgoing mail to plain text
when using Express Outhouse, something that more people should take the
time to do before posting.

-- 
Press every key to continue, any other key to quit.



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Nick Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


* On 21-01-02 at 09:03 
* ABrady said

> On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:53:30 -0500
> John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> implied:
> 
> > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would
> > be the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> 
> Mandrake was an offshoot of Redhat. They're still similar, but Mandrake
> has gone off in slightly different directions. Even so, some RPMs can be
> installed interchangably, and many others only require the satisfying of
> some dependencies. Except for some tools, this would likely be one of
> the easiest possible transitions.

I agree, Mandrake has a very similar feel to it but were I changing I
think I'd probably consider Debian or SuSe as I've so many good things
about both.

Interesting to note that several contributors to this thread were using
Outlook Express?

- -- 

Nick Wilson

Tel:+45 3325 0688
Fax:+45 3325 0677
Web:www.explodingnet.com



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[ABrady]

On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:53:30 -0500
John P Verel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> implied:

> If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would
> be the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?

Mandrake was an offshoot of Redhat. They're still similar, but Mandrake
has gone off in slightly different directions. Even so, some RPMs can be
installed interchangably, and many others only require the satisfying of
some dependencies. Except for some tools, this would likely be one of
the easiest possible transitions.

Some Like SuSE. I never installed it and can't say anything in
particular. I doubt you could make a move too easily from one to the
other in this case.

-- 
Support organized crime: buy Microsoft products.



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Monte Milanuk]

On Sunday 20 January 2002 13:53, John P Verel wrote:
> If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
> the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
>

I would have to most emphatically say SuSE 7.3 Professional.  Good hardware 
detection, stable, polished, and probably the best printed manuals around 
that make it a breeze (relatively speaking) to set up things.  Especially the 
Networking manual.

Monte


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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Timothy R. Butler]

I'd definately recommend Mandrake. It has a lot of the same thinking as 
RedHat, offers cool stuff like Cooker and a more KDE support on top of that. 
To avoid starting anything, let me know off list if you want more MDK 
information...
 
 -Tim

On Sunday 20 January 2002 03:53 pm, you wrote:
> If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
> the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
>
> TIA

-- 

Timothy R. Butler | Universal  Networks | http://www.uninet.info
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ICQ: 12495932 AIM: Uninettm
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Ed Wilts]

> If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
> the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?

Mandrake's distribution is fairly similar to Red Hat Linux in many ways and
you'll find it familiar to you to work with.  There are certainly pros and
cons as with any switch, but I've had no problems running Mandrake's
distribution before and after Red Hat Linux on the same hardware.  I've got
a box that started running Red Hat Linux, switched to Mandrake, went full
bleeding-edge with Mandrake's Cooker releases, and back to Red Hat Linux.

Cheers,
.../Ed

Ed Wilts
Mounds View, MN, USA
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Chris Montgomery]

The Lockergnome Penguin Shell newsletter ran a series of distro reviews
awhile back, you might want to take a look through the archives. Current
issue is here:

http://www.lockergnome.com/issues/penguinshell.html

Cheers,

Chris



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[John P Verel]

I have no interest in affiliating with AOL.  Others may differ, and I
respect that.  However, I'll be looking at my alternatives, if this
merger comes to pass.

On 01/20/02, 05:18:38PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> you say enhanced rh version, are you like comparing win98se to me... to say
> mandrake is better then rh?
> just curious, seen the posting in the paper bout the poss. merger and very
> unhappy w/ it .. do not want to invest into software that  will only turn
> big brother on me...
> - Original Message -
> From: "Enrique Bory Simon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 4:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?
> 
> 
> > Many people suggest moving to mandrake, this look like a enhanced redhat!!
> > Other to SuSe
> > But why ?
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "John P Verel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "redhat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 1:53 PM
> > Subject: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?
> >
> >
> > > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
> > > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> > >
> > > TIA
> > >
> > > --
> > > John P. Verel
> > > Living Proof That Low Tech Beats High Tech!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Redhat-list mailing list
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> > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> 
> 
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John P. Verel
Living Proof That Low Tech Beats High Tech!



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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[tracker]

you say enhanced rh version, are you like comparing win98se to me... to say
mandrake is better then rh?
just curious, seen the posting in the paper bout the poss. merger and very
unhappy w/ it .. do not want to invest into software that  will only turn
big brother on me...
- Original Message -
From: "Enrique Bory Simon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?


> Many people suggest moving to mandrake, this look like a enhanced redhat!!
> Other to SuSe
> But why ?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "John P Verel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "redhat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 1:53 PM
> Subject: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?
>
>
> > If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
> > the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > --
> > John P. Verel
> > Living Proof That Low Tech Beats High Tech!
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Redhat-list mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
> >
>
>
>
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Re: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?

[Enrique Bory Simon]

Many people suggest moving to mandrake, this look like a enhanced redhat!!
Other to SuSe
But why ?

- Original Message - 
From: "John P Verel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "redhat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 1:53 PM
Subject: Changing from Red Hat to another distro: recommendations?


> If one were to move from, say, Red Hat to another distro, what would be
> the most similar, and easiest to accomplish?
> 
> TIA
> 
> -- 
> John P. Verel
> Living Proof That Low Tech Beats High Tech!
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Redhat-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-list
> 



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