[Repeater-Builder] TKR-850 or TKR-750 ?
I have searched the archives to no avail so here goes. Could someone tell me the primary differences between the Version 1 TKR-850 KPG-66D software repeater and the Version 2 TKR-850 KPG-91D software repeater? I am particularly interested in the difference between DTMF over the air commands using the internal controller. In other words; can the original Version 1 software machines be used without an external controller for ham use? I would only need the basic functions to be controlled.. i.e. turn pl on or off, turn repeater on or off, and of course have it send a cw id... no courtesy tone needed. Will the version 1 internal controller be capable of these functions or only the later version 2 firmware internal controller I am aware of the PA issues etc but can't find a good source showing the differences between the units having the different firmware. Thanks and 73 de Shane KI4M
[Repeater-Builder] Duplexer and noise question
Hi everyone - new to the group looking for help on a strange problem. I've been involved with two repeaters in Southeast Kansas (Humboldt - 147.18 and 442.900) for over 30 years and work in Electronics, although not in radio. A couple months ago we lost both repeaters when we had a flood in this area - I took the Wacom duplexer apart and cleaned any obvious corrosion or such and assumed it would be fine - it tuned up without any trouble and there was almost no corrosion. I replaced as many of the T connectors as I could and carefully cleaned any that remained and made new cables of the correct length. I have built a new repeater but am now having a problem with intermittent buzzing sometimes when the transmitter is up - it will hold the receiver open and cover any signals that aren't pretty strong. Comes on whenever the transmitter comes up but not always - sometimes it is fine. I have tried 3 different transmitters - a Midland 3400, a Midland 340A and even a couple Icom rigs - makes no difference. Same for receivers - makes no difference. Never shows up unless the duplexer is hooked to an antenna - works fine on a dummy load. Tried two different antennas as well. The noise sounds like bad line noise, but I can't hear it except on the repeater. The repeater is at my house right now, but I intend to haul it back to the site to see if it shows up there as well when I can get time to do it. Anyone else ever ran into this kind of thing?
[Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF PA
Ok guys help this old man out. I worked in a Motorola Shop back in the 80's. I seem to remember a problem with Micor UHF PA's where the solder connection on a perticular chip capacitor would go bad causing the power to drop to next to nothing. I think the solution was to resolder the cap with silver solder. Do any of you know of a better solution. I have one of the animals acting intermittant. Jim WK5Y
[Repeater-Builder] Johnson repeater
Hi gang I have an opportunity to acquire a Johnson repeater, (free), since I have long since lost my Johnson key, I am not sure what it is yet, I have a feeling it is a CR1010, all I know at this moment, is, it is set for 463.875/468.875, it was originally licensed in 1998, and renewed in 2003, Is this unit convertible to 440, if so how hard would it be? LMK 73 de KC0QNB, Ryan I posted this originally via email, id didn't appear to work so if there is a double posting, please ignore the other one
[Repeater-Builder] Possible Johnson CR1010
Hi gang I have an opportunity to acquire a Johnson repeater, (free), since I have lond since lost my Johnson key, I am not sure what it is yet, I have a feeling it is a CR1010, all I know at this moment, is, it is set for 463.875/468.875, it was originally licensed in 1998, and renewed in 2003, Is this unit convertible to 440, if so how hard would it be? LMK 73 de KC0QNB, Ryan
[Repeater-Builder] SCR 1400: schematic diagram or service manual needed
Hi, Our group has plans of putting a Spectrum Communications SRC 1400 Repeater in operation. This was donated to us by a friend who has this stashed away in their warehouse for a long time. Some of the wires have deteriorated and cut off so we urgently need a diagram to have this repaired and put back into operation. Any help will be appreciated DU3CWM Malolos City Philippines
[Repeater-Builder] GE MVP VHF power amp.
Hi, I need a good VHF-25watt PA module for a GE MVP (19D424309G2 or similar). Anyone have one? Thanks, John -- John Mc Hugh, K4AG Coordinator for Amateur Radio National Hurricane Center, WX4NHC Home page:- http://www.wx4nhc.org
[Repeater-Builder] PA for GE VHF MVP
Hi, I need a good VHF-25watt PA module for a GE MVP (19D424309G2 or similar). Anyone have one? Thanks, John -- John Mc Hugh, K4AG Coordinator for Amateur Radio National Hurricane Center, WX4NHC Home page:- http://www.wx4nhc.org
[Repeater-Builder] unable to post
Why can't I post to the list 73, John -- John Mc Hugh, K4AG Coordinator for Amateur Radio National Hurricane Center, WX4NHC Home page:- http://www.wx4nhc.org
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Call Sign and Sounds like a Ham, NOT
Double yep from my wife, WD5IHY, a call she has held since the late 70's. Roger W5RD - Original Message - From: Gerald Pelnar To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Call Sign and Sounds like a Ham, NOT Yep, WD0FYF Gerald Pelnar McPherson, Ks - Original Message - From: Ron _ To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:32 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Call Sign and Sounds like a Ham, NOT Don, WD prefixes and WD#xxx formats are not reserved for experimental. It is part of the former novice block of calls issued in the mid 70's. Ron WD4RBJ -- To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:31:01 -0500 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Call Sign and Sounds like a Ham, NOT Don, This is an experimental callsign. The reason I'm familiar with this is I tried to obtain a WC9 callsign for my county's EMA Ham Club - that was also denied since WC and WD prefixes are experimentals. (BTW - we ended up with W9WIL.) Which system was he on? SARA, CFMC? I'd be interested in listening to hear this guy some time... Maybe I'd even query him on his callsign. Hehehehe Moderator note: Sorry for the OT thread... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Don Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:31 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Call Sign and Sounds like a Ham , NOT I found something interesting and Thought Would share, I heard a Ham talking as He was driving through the Chicago Metro area on a large Repeater System , and when I am near the Computer , I Just look up the Call to find more info about the person to see If We might have something in common to talk about I looked up His call WD9XAD On http://www.qrz.com/ and http://hamcall.net/call nothing Found , Sure looks like a Older Call and the Person talked like a Ham But now days who knows so I went to the FCC Site http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/reports7/ Top Search for Call sign Well it came up But NOT A Ham radio call, I doubt very much if it was the Person with the Non ham lic using it, But I found it interesting and Nice to learn something as We get older, it's just remembering it is the Problem Back in the Old Days We just took people at their word , But with the Internet I find things are not always what We think . 73 De Don KA9QJG Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it!
[Repeater-Builder] GE MVP VHF power amp
Hi, I need a good VHF-25watt PA module for a GE MVP(19D424309G2 or similar)repeater. Anyone have one? Thanks, John -- John Mc Hugh, K4AG Coordinator for Amateur Radio National Hurricane Center, WX4NHC Home page:- http://www.wx4nhc.org
[Repeater-Builder] MVP VHF power amplifier
Hi, I need a good VHF-25watt PA module for a GE MVP repeater (19D424309G2 or similar). Anyone have one they want to get rid of? Thanks, John -- John Mc Hugh, K4AG Coordinator for Amateur Radio National Hurricane Center, WX4NHC Home page:- http://www.wx4nhc.org
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Johnson repeater
Ryan, Here is a very useful link that will show you how to align the unit into the ham bands. http://www.repeater-builder.com/johnson/cr1010-files/cr1010-alignment.html Mike K7PFJ -- Original message -- From: Ryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi gang I have an opportunity to acquire a Johnson repeater, (free), since I have long since lost my Johnson key, I am not sure what it is yet, I have a feeling it is a CR1010, all I know at this moment, is, it is set for 463.875/468.875, it was originally licensed in 1998, and renewed in 2003, Is this unit convertible to 440, if so how hard would it be? LMK 73 de KC0QNB, Ryan I posted this originally via email, id didn't appear to work so if there is a double posting, please ignore the other one
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF PA
Jim, You might be thinking about the 33pf(? value) on the collector/emitter junction on the flat pack RF transistors. Or the leaching problem that is mentioned in the service manual. I always replaced the chip caps on the base/emitter and collector/emitter junctions when we had to replace a defective transistor. There were PK-xxx packages for replacing the lower level transistors that included the transistor, chip caps and solder. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: Jim Russell To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 11:24 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF PA Ok guys help this old man out. I worked in a Motorola Shop back in the 80's. I seem to remember a problem with Micor UHF PA's where the solder connection on a perticular chip capacitor would go bad causing the power to drop to next to nothing. I think the solution was to resolder the cap with silver solder. Do any of you know of a better solution. I have one of the animals acting intermittant. Jim WK5Y
Re: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-850 or TKR-750 ?
Hi Shane, The two main differnaces between the V1 V2 repeaters are yes the DTMF control. I think the main differnace is that the new V2 repeaters have a two stage final amp and the V1 repeaters hace a three stage amp. Both repeaters can operate as a standalone repeater but the V2 can be controlled. There are some other options that the V2 can do but the main differance is the DTMF. Mike K7PFJ -- Original message -- From: Shane Autrey KI4M [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have searched the archives to no avail so here goes. Could someone tell me the primary differences between the Version 1 TKR-850 KPG-66D software repeater and the Version 2 TKR-850 KPG-91D software repeater? I am particularly interested in the difference between DTMF over the air commands using the internal controller. In other words; can the original Version 1 software machines be used without an external controller for ham use? I would only need the basic functions to be controlled.. i.e. turn pl on or off, turn repeater on or off, and of course have it send a cw id... no courtesy tone needed. Will the version 1 internal controller be capable of these functions or only the later version 2 firmware internal controller I am aware of the PA issues etc but can't find a good source showing the differences between the units having the different firmware. Thanks and 73 de Shane KI4M
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer and noise question
Dan, My guess is that the duplexer tuning was disturbed when you took it apart. Most likely, the notch for the RX frequency on the TX side is not exactly tuned to notch out the TX carrier, leading to major desense of the RX. Unless you have a network analyzer, or a good spectrum analyzer with tracking generator and a return-loss bridge, you might consider sending the duplexer to Telewave for repair and tuning. Although almost any duplexer manufacturer can rework Wacom cavities, Telewave also has spare parts on hand. (Commercial-interest disclaimer applies). Ensure that the jumpers connecting the RX and TX to the duplexer are double-shielded, and that the connectors are clean and tight. The desense can be caused by any leakage from the TX into the RX, and jumpers are always a suspect. Regarding the other stuff like cables and connectors, I strongly suggest that anything that was submerged be discarded. Water can wick into spaces that are not visible and cause problems over time. Besides, flood water is nasty stuff, and may contain bacteria and/or chemicals that are not nice. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Cation Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 5:15 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer and noise question Hi everyone - new to the group looking for help on a strange problem. I've been involved with two repeaters in Southeast Kansas (Humboldt - 147.18 and 442.900) for over 30 years and work in electronics, although not in radio. A couple months ago we lost both repeaters when we had a flood in this area - I took the Wacom duplexer apart and cleaned any obvious corrosion or such and assumed it would be fine - it tuned up without any trouble and there was almost no corrosion. I replaced as many of the T connectors as I could and carefully cleaned any that remained and made new cables of the correct length. I have built a new repeater but am now having a problem with intermittent buzzing sometimes when the transmitter is up - it will hold the receiver open and cover any signals that aren't pretty strong. Comes on whenever the transmitter comes up but not always - sometimes it is fine. I have tried 3 different transmitters - a Midland 3400, a Midland 340A and even a couple Icom rigs - makes no difference. Same for receivers - makes no difference. Never shows up unless the duplexer is hooked to an antenna - works fine on a dummy load. Tried two different antennas as well. The noise sounds like bad line noise, but I can't hear it except on the repeater. The repeater is at my house right now, but I intend to haul it back to the site to see if it shows up there as well when I can get time to do it. Anyone else ever ran into this kind of thing?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer and noise question
Well now--- I've got two 2 meter Phelps-Dodge duplexers that tune beautifully but are unusable in duplex service do to receiver desense-internal microarcs between failed silver plated movable and fixed parts of the center element in a couple of the cavities of each. Also, some time ago, I had a 2 meter Hustler antenna---the 3 section one--- go bad on our repeater-it heard fine and showed good VSWR but desensed badly when the transmitter was on. A total disassembly and cleanup of all connections---aluminum tube slip fits and bolted connections and reassembly with anti-corrosion dope and shrink tubing to keep the weather out fixed it. In your case it sounds like you may have a bad antenna port coax T on your duplexer or the mating antenna feedline connector or a bad connector somewhere up the feedlineI've seen that too-micro arcs. And LMR-400 or 9913 cable with a loose connector will do it too. Then you could have a loose random connection somewhere in your tower/antenna structure-something like a coax connector making and breaking connection to the antenna support structure-this will often make high level random static type noise--look for anything that is loose. Scott, N6NXI - Original Message - From: Dan Cation To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 4:14 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer and noise question Hi everyone - new to the group looking for help on a strange problem. I've been involved with two repeaters in Southeast Kansas (Humboldt - 147.18 and 442.900) for over 30 years and work in Electronics, although not in radio. A couple months ago we lost both repeaters when we had a flood in this area - I took the Wacom duplexer apart and cleaned any obvious corrosion or such and assumed it would be fine - it tuned up without any trouble and there was almost no corrosion. I replaced as many of the T connectors as I could and carefully cleaned any that remained and made new cables of the correct length. I have built a new repeater but am now having a problem with intermittent buzzing sometimes when the transmitter is up - it will hold the receiver open and cover any signals that aren't pretty strong. Comes on whenever the transmitter comes up but not always - sometimes it is fine. I have tried 3 different transmitters - a Midland 3400, a Midland 340A and even a couple Icom rigs - makes no difference. Same for receivers - makes no difference. Never shows up unless the duplexer is hooked to an antenna - works fine on a dummy load. Tried two different antennas as well. The noise sounds like bad line noise, but I can't hear it except on the repeater. The repeater is at my house right now, but I intend to haul it back to the site to see if it shows up there as well when I can get time to do it. Anyone else ever ran into this kind of thing?
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer and noise question
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And LMR-400 or 9913 cable with a loose connector will do it too. Scott, N6NXI Need I say it.. LMR-400 or 9913 can make noise on their own, loose connector or not. Laryn K8TVZ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: AC Line Conditioner
You folks have more than 10 typical listeners to the HD System/format or is the Company just paying Ibiquity big money and hiding from the eventual death of IBOC? :-) s. FWIW, WLRW being the fourth stereo station in the US, went HD a couple of years ago and was the first station south of Chicago to be HD in the state. LRW is now one of four FMs in the building. It's part of the SAGA organization out of Detroit. Plan to take another one HD in November and the third next Summer.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer and noise question
There is a liquid silver plate compound I've found does actually work in some applications. But there is no realistic fix for some types of damage. For a damaged duplexer we swapped the rx with the tx bottles so the tune plunger and contact finger stock were in different physical locations. Sometimes you get lucky... cheers, s. I've got two 2 meter Phelps-Dodge duplexers that tune beautifully but are unusable in duplex service do to receiver desense internal microarcs between failed silver plated movable and fixed parts of the center element in a couple of the cavities of each.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF PA
Also check the 52 pf coupling capacitors between each amp stage. We see these go bad and intermitten from time to time. Still too cheap not to replace, but sometimes all they need is a little heat and solder reflow. thp Milt wrote: Jim, You might be thinking about the 33pf(? value) on the collector/emitter junction on the flat pack RF transistors. Or the leaching problem that is mentioned in the service manual. I always replaced the chip caps on the base/emitter and collector/emitter junctions when we had to replace a defective transistor. There were PK-xxx packages for replacing the lower level transistors that included the transistor, chip caps and solder. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: Jim Russell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 11:24 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF PA Ok guys help this old man out. I worked in a Motorola Shop back in the 80's. I seem to remember a problem with Micor UHF PA's where the solder connection on a perticular chip capacitor would go bad causing the power to drop to next to nothing. I think the solution was to resolder the cap with silver solder. Do any of you know of a better solution. I have one of the animals acting intermittant. Jim WK5Y No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007 9:46 PM
[Repeater-Builder] UHF Micor Mobile Repeater
Hello all. I have a UHF Micor mobile Repeater built by Matt Bush when he had Advanced Repeater Systems back in '93. It Still runs fine but I would like to get ahold of Matt to see if he has a better controller for it. If anyone knows how to reach him please let me know. Thanks.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Micor Mobile Repeater
You are probably referring to Matthew H. Bush, KA9RIX. You can look him up on QRZ.com or on the FCC site. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of k6kusman Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 5:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Micor Mobile Repeater Hello all. I have a UHF Micor mobile Repeater built by Matt Bush when he had Advanced Repeater Systems back in '93. It Still runs fine but I would like to get ahold of Matt to see if he has a better controller for it. If anyone knows how to reach him please let me know. Thanks.
[Repeater-Builder] Overlapping Coverage
I'm considering a trunked (type TBD) system on 470 that will have significant on-channel overlap. The overlap comes about due to the need for multiple sites to fill the many holes that will exist with a single site regaurdless of location or (reasonable) tower height. Assuming that ALL the transmitters are GPS locked and properly set up for simulcast operation, what operational problems might I expect? Thanks, Bill Powell
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Overlapping Coverage
The major radio system suppliers such as Motorola and MaCom have been building these systems successfully for a number of years. They have the engineers, design tools, and products to deal with signal distribution, site separation, multipath, phasing, inter-symbol interference, carrier synchronization, delay optimization, etc. Assuming you select one of those systems, you should not expect any significant operational problems. -- --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bill Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm considering a trunked (type TBD) system on 470 that will have significant on-channel overlap. ... Assuming that ALL the transmitters are GPS locked and properly set up for simulcast operation, what operational problems might I expect?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Overlapping Coverage
Bill, Though I have no personal experience with a trunked simulcast system, I did have a class from the engineer assigned to a large end to end system that the company that I work for takes care of. Among the other problems that may arise are frequency stability which the GPS should take care. All transmitters must be aligned and set with the same service monitor so all frequencies are as close as possible to being the same, as well as transmitter deviations and PL/DPL levels/frequencies (if used). One other problem with the overlap is controlling the overlapping coverage so it may not be too large an area, and/or adjusting for areas of prime coverage importance, by increasing or decreasing transmitter power output. The other problem to be addressed is line compensation for time delay so the audio arrives at all base stations at the same time. This step is to eliminate or decrease possible audio distortion due to arriving at a different time/phase. I am sure there may be other factors to consider as well. When set up right it appears to work well, when not there may be problems (customer related of course). I hope my brief explanation of what I know is a help. Steve KB3FPN - Original Message - From: Bill Powell To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Overlapping Coverage I'm considering a trunked (type TBD) system on 470 that will have significant on-channel overlap. The overlap comes about due to the need for multiple sites to fill the many holes that will exist with a single site regaurdless of location or (reasonable) tower height. Assuming that ALL the transmitters are GPS locked and properly set up for simulcast operation, what operational problems might I expect? Thanks, Bill Powell
[Repeater-Builder] Re: AC Line Conditioner, etc.
Skip, You bring up a very valid point. I only know of two IBOC listeners in the area. The local PBS station is trying to hype it so that may generate some interest, at least for their classical music station. They hope to go IBOC soon. Yes, keep those cards and letters coming in. How about a tote-bag? I don't own an HD receiver and it isn't on my Christmas list. But the money is good, at least for now. To keep this kind of on topic, I have two ham repeaters there. Al, K9SI Re: AC Line Conditioner Posted by: skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] skipp025 Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:36 am ((PDT)) You folks have more than 10 typical listeners to the HD System/format or is the Company just paying Ibiquity big money and hiding from the eventual death of IBOC? :-) s. snip
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Overlapping Coverage
The idea with simulcast is to keep the non capture area as small as possible. Typically the capture area is that where the dominant transmitter has a 10 dB or greater advantage. In capture areas subscribers hear only one signal A good test is to broadcast different audible tones from each site and see which tone is heard. Running as high power as possible keeps the capture areas as large as possible and minimizes non-capture areas. For simulcast to work the signal in the non-capture area needs to arrive in the non-capture area at the same time from each contributor. Most systems are designed in a straight line so that the outer sites don't overlap. The GPS signal is used to discipline a master oscillator at each site. Every transmitter uses the same MO. Depending on the number of channels, you may want to use receiver voting along with bulk delay in a 1.544 mb/s T1 stream. Contact Ed O'Connor at Simulcast Solutions or visit their site for some good information. http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/ 73 Steve NU5D Bill Powell wrote: I'm considering a trunked (type TBD) system on 470 that will have significant on-channel overlap. The overlap comes about due to the need for multiple sites to fill the many holes that will exist with a single site regaurdless of location or (reasonable) tower height. Assuming that ALL the transmitters are GPS locked and properly set up for simulcast operation, what operational problems might I expect? Thanks, Bill Powell
[Repeater-Builder] Amateur Radio Newsline Report - RADIO LAW: NFCC ASKS FCC TO DECLARE DIGITAL VOICE REPEATERS THE SAME AS ANALOG
Amateur Radio Newsline Report 1572 - September 28, 2007 Amateur Radio Newsline report number 1572 with a release date of Friday, September 28, 2007 to follow in 5-4-3-2-1. The following is a Q-S-T. The National Frequency Coordinators' Council asks the FCC to declare all digital voice repeaters follow the same rules as analog F-M repeaters, Australia makes ready for digital voice operations and four New England repeaters voluntarily shut down over interference to Pave Paws radar. Find out the details on Amateur Radio NewslineT report number 1572 coming your way right now. ** RADIO LAW: NFCC ASKS FCC TO DECLARE DIGITAL VOICE REPEATERS THE SAME AS ANALOG Is a digital voice repeater really a repeater or is it something else yet to be defined in law? The National Frequency Coordinators' Council believes that anything that repeats voice in close to real time is a repeater, and its now asked the FCC to declare this to be the case. Jay Maynard, K5ZC, is president of the NFCC. He explains the back story that lead his organization to act: -- K5ZC: When D-Star started really taking off, somebody wanted to put up a D-Star repeater. He went to his local coordination council and wanted to put up a 2 meter D-Star repeater. He went to his local coordination council but was told no because we do not have any frequencies available for you. In desperation -- I don't know if that's a truly accurate word but its close enough -- they (the want to be repeater owners) went to the FCC and described what D-Star did in such a way that the FCC -- specifically Bill Cross -- concluded that a D-Star repeater really wasn't a repeater and therefore did not have to operate in the repeater subbands. -- That night be all well and good if it were only D-Star and other digital repeaters that fell into this category. Unfortunately, many of today's analog FM systems alo include a slight audio delay to facilitate control or linking. And it soon became apparent that this opinion by Bill Cross could lead to a lot of problems on the VHF and UHF bands: -- K5ZC: This guy said 'fine' and he put his machine up on 145.61MHz with a minus 1.2 MHz offset and went to town That gave D-Star a foothold in that area, but it also opened up a real can of worms because the way that Bill Cross wrote the message, he said that its not simultaneous because there is a delay in the path between the input and the output. The problem there is that lots of (analog) repeaters have delays between the input and the output. Anyone that's running an RC-850 (controller) or other computerized controller has a delay. And it was only a matter of time before some bright spark read that message and said: 'Ah hah! My repeater does not transmit simultaneously either. Its not a repeater and I can get on outside the repeater subbands and go to town. -- And that's what had frequency coordinators concerned. They did not want to see a return to the repeater turf wars that marked the early days of FM relay operation: -- K5ZC: In the late 1960's and early 1970' there was a lot of proliferation of repeaters. That was really the 'golden age' of repeater construction. And in that era is when frequency coordination first came about because you had people wanting to put their repeaters up all on the same frequency, and that did not work very well -- as you might imagine. Part of the regulation that came down to stem that tide was restricting repeaters to parts of the ham bands so that they wouldn't take over the entire band. After all, there are folks that do other things than operate FM repeaters on 2 meters and on some of the other bands and they have just as much right to operate on the ham bands as repeater operators do. And that's where the restriction (of repeaters) to certain subbanbds comes from. -- After debating the matter for several months as more and more digital voice systems took to the air, the majority of NFCC members agreed that it was imperative for them to let the FCC know that they believe any device that retransmits an audio signal in near to real time is a repeater and should be treated as such.-- -- K5ZC: What the NFCC did was vote to ask the FCC to treat anything that asks like a repeater, as a repeater. This was a formal motion and vote of the council. -- Specifically, the letter states that the NFCC believes that any amateur station, other than a message forwarding system, that automatically retransmits a signal sent by another amateur station on a different frequency while it is being received, regardless of any delays in processing that signal or its format or content, is a repeater station within the meaning of paragraph 97.3(a)(39) of the FCC rules and should be treated as such. In practical terms, it means that D-Star, APCO 25 and any other repeatable digital voice system that comes along would be restricted to operation in the FCC
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: AC Line Conditioner, etc.
IBOC is cool! John Mackey, Chief Engineer KBOO-FM/HD -- Original Message -- Received: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 11:59:08 PM CDT From: Al Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: AC Line Conditioner, etc. Skip, You bring up a very valid point. I only know of two IBOC listeners in the area. The local PBS station is trying to hype it so that may generate some interest, at least for their classical music station. They hope to go IBOC soon. Yes, keep those cards and letters coming in. How about a tote-bag? I don't own an HD receiver and it isn't on my Christmas list. But the money is good, at least for now. To keep this kind of on topic, I have two ham repeaters there. Al, K9SI Re: AC Line Conditioner Posted by: skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] skipp025 Date: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:36 am ((PDT)) You folks have more than 10 typical listeners to the HD System/format or is the Company just paying Ibiquity big money and hiding from the eventual death of IBOC? :-) s. snip
