RE: SD> dual engine
So now if we consider that you can weld in the entire inner engine bay into the rear of, say, a G body, you would then have ready-to-go shock towers which covers the basic suspension fab needs. All you do then is fashion joints for the A-arm. Hmmm do you use a front sway bar in the rear? But what about electronics? How does this work? Two computers? I would think so. Two alternators? I would imagine that too is a must. Two batteries? Hmmm well with two alternators I suppose a single battery would be more than charged, plus if I understand the basics correctly, the rear engine's alternator would only be supplying power for ignition, starter, and engine/autotrans electronics. So I suppose the question is can one battery crank over two engines at once (or can you just instead fire them up one at a time?) Just some details to consider in a twin-engine (2E) Daytona. -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
> So now if we consider that you can weld in the entire inner engine bay > into the rear of, say, a G body, you would then have ready-to-go shock > towers which covers the basic suspension fab needs. All you do then is > fashion joints for the A-arm. Hmmm do you use a front sway bar in the > rear? Nothing to fabricate besides how to mount the whole assembly in the rear of the car. Take the front end of a TD, take off fenders hood and bumper, cut whole car on passenger side of firewall and put in the back of the car. Not much engineering to that. BTW...two alternators, 1 battery. Works fine, but would not try to start both motors at once. Two seperate ignition and computer systems is what we used. It was easiest and cheap. I spose if you were MacGyver-esc you could do something different. Keep in mind, when/if you build one of these, you will need to have both engines running anytime the car is moving or you will hose up a trans. Point is: Not a great daily driver. Chad- - Original Message - From: "Jason Arroyo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "sdml" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: RE: SD> dual engine > > But what about electronics? How does this work? Two computers? I would > think so. Two alternators? I would imagine that too is a must. Two > batteries? Hmmm well with two alternators I suppose a single battery > would be more than charged, plus if I understand the basics correctly, > the rear engine's alternator would only be supplying power for ignition, > starter, and engine/autotrans electronics. So I suppose the question is > can one battery crank over two engines at once (or can you just instead > fire them up one at a time?) > > Just some details to consider in a twin-engine (2E) Daytona. > > -J Southern California Forced Induction > 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II > 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo > 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo > 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) > 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) > 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo > 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo > 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo > > ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING > Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ > > To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/22/2004 ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
- Original Message - From: "Jason Arroyo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "sdml" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: RE: SD> dual engine > So now if we consider that you can weld in the entire inner engine bay > into the rear of, say, a G body, you would then have ready-to-go shock > towers which covers the basic suspension fab needs. All you do then is > fashion joints for the A-arm. Hmmm do you use a front sway bar in the > rear? Joints for the A-arm? Just use the k-member, lock the steering rack in place, hook up the brake lines, and yes the sway bar is a must. > But what about electronics? How does this work? Two computers? I would > think so. Two alternators? I would imagine that too is a must. Two > batteries? Hmmm well with two alternators I suppose a single battery > would be more than charged, plus if I understand the basics correctly, > the rear engine's alternator would only be supplying power for ignition, > starter, and engine/autotrans electronics. So I suppose the question is > can one battery crank over two engines at once (or can you just instead > fire them up one at a time?) 2 computers, 2 alternators, 1 battery, On/Off and starter switch on the dash board for the rear engine. You can see the switches in the Gallery pictures Chad posted. Also, having two working dashes is important.I believe we cut up some used jumper cables to power the rear engine. > Just some details to consider in a twin-engine (2E) Daytona. > > -J Southern California Forced Induction Jeff Chojnacki http://home.wi.rr.com/jpcturbo '87 Lebaron 2.2 T2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] '88 Daytona Shelby Z '88 Caravan TBI Waukesha, WI. Member ExtremePSI, SDAC ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
Alright, why not replace the rack altogether with a solid beam, bent to shape? Sorta like how we replace the bobble struts with solid dogbones. Two dashes? As in for the tach and dummy lights? Hmm what special brand of pain in the *ss is THAT to locate and mount? -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- Joints for the A-arm? Just use the k-member, lock the steering rack in place, hook up the brake lines, and yes the sway bar is a must. 2 computers, 2 alternators, 1 battery, On/Off and starter switch on the dash board for the rear engine. You can see the switches in the Gallery pictures Chad posted. Also, having two working dashes is important.I believe we cut up some used jumper cables to power the rear engine. ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
Solid beam wouldn't work. I'd just use a pair of steering arms that bolted to the K-member or lower control arm. Same thing they did on the Pontiac Fiero's and Fiat X-1/9's. Have you seen the inside of a multi-engine airplane cockpit? There is a standard set of gauges used for an engine. This is replicated for each engine. Makes the cockpit a busy mofo :) So, you'd want two tachs, two water temps, two oil pressure (wait Shadows didn't get those, grrr) two A/F, two EGT. You could set up the ignition to actuate both ignition switches simultaneously (on most cars its just a pushrod that runs down the steering column) or just wire a single ignition box to activate both computers. I don't think you'd need two alternators, but it does make it easier (no futzing with brackets or shorter belts) Mounting the battery behind the passenger seat might help with weight balance and wiring. I think running a single throttle and shifter would help keep the driver sane during the running and keep the car under a little better control. Perhaps adding an external pump for the transaxle would help alleviate any issues there. However, keep in mind that NHRA does not allow multi-engined vehicles to run at their events. This is one of the reasons multi-engined cars don't run at the GRM Challenge. Stefan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Arroyo Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:08 AM To: sdml Subject: RE: SD> dual engine Alright, why not replace the rack altogether with a solid beam, bent to shape? Sorta like how we replace the bobble struts with solid dogbones. Two dashes? As in for the tach and dummy lights? Hmm what special brand of pain in the *ss is THAT to locate and mount? -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- Joints for the A-arm? Just use the k-member, lock the steering rack in place, hook up the brake lines, and yes the sway bar is a must. 2 computers, 2 alternators, 1 battery, On/Off and starter switch on the dash board for the rear engine. You can see the switches in the Gallery pictures Chad posted. Also, having two working dashes is important.I believe we cut up some used jumper cables to power the rear engine. ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING-- -- Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
Keeping the rack was easier by far. The wheels were straigened out and a short peice of bar stock was welded to the steering input shaft and to the firewall. Any minor alignment changes then could easily be done with the tie-rods like on any car. It took Tom like 10 minutes to set it up. Two dashes for Tach, dummy lights, and Coolant temperature. Coolant temp = very important. As you can see in the picture the glove box was somewhat ripped out and the guage cluster screwed down. Then we had two club members who undestand wiring pretty well wire it up. While this was going on a few other groups worked on other items. I think it only took them a couple of hours. Jeff Chojnacki http://home.wi.rr.com/jpcturbo '87 Lebaron 2.2 T2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] '88 Daytona Shelby Z '88 Caravan TBI Waukesha, WI. Member ExtremePSI, SDAC - Original Message - From: "Jason Arroyo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "sdml" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: RE: SD> dual engine > Alright, why not replace the rack altogether with a solid beam, bent to > shape? Sorta like how we replace the bobble struts with solid dogbones. > > Two dashes? As in for the tach and dummy lights? Hmm what special brand > of pain in the *ss is THAT to locate and mount? > > -J Southern California Forced Induction > -Original Message- > Joints for the A-arm? Just use the k-member, lock the steering rack in > place, hook up the brake lines, and yes the sway bar is a must. > > > 2 computers, 2 alternators, 1 battery, On/Off and starter switch on the > dash board for the rear engine. You can see the switches in the Gallery > pictures > Chad posted. Also, having two working dashes is important.I > believe we > cut up some used jumper cables to power the rear engine. ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
I'm thinking now that those aftermarket gauge cluster packages from Autometer and other companies (that includes tach and speedo, oil pressure, water, etc.) is a good deal, and would make mounting, say above the glove compartment and at an angle (say 35-45 degrees), a snap, and cover your secondset. Also many aftermarkets come with alarm features and you can set your alarm limit, so you might not even have to look at it until it beeps at you. Then along the top of the dash, to the right of the main cluster, could be the following six gauges: BOOST, EGT, O2, BOOST, EGT, O2. The first three (on the left) could be green bulb illuminated. The second set of three (on the right) could be red bulb illuminated (to indicate the rear). All can be mounted at 45 degrees towards driver. And even those in many cases can be had in alarm-equipped versions. I've seen it. Looks like this: 00 GRNRED If you use Dawes-style O2's, then you only need (four places, two green two red). You could even be clever and fab up a long narrow hood for them. Could even close up the front of the hood with a zig-zaggy piece of sheet aluminum with circles cut out for the gauges to slide into ( there's your easy mounting). Hell, three-gauge versions of THAT would be neato for even normal single engine cars. There's your gauge solution. Now as far as shifters and especially throttle go, , I guess we would need to know where to buy or have made custom length cables (the kind with the metal cable in the black slider sheath). Also we'd need to know just how long such a cable type can be before it won't slide back and forth so easy in its sheath, although I think we will discover that the lengths we need for this sort of endeavor will be within its ability. But who knows, we need to find that out. Stefan, I'm not really looking at NHRA. Especially since they hate sport compacts and anything four cyllinder anyways, and have only recently turned attention to them because they were upset at IDRC for stealing a piece of what they feel is THEIR [NHRA's] pie. I'm discussing a street toy, and show stopper, that gets doubletakes from passers-by at carshows (when both hatch and hood are popped and "bragging" for themselves), and on the road when it's scaring the living hell out of three passengers (and perhaps even the driver), taking canyons and long stretches with equal visciousness. So far, it sounds like you need the following: - Donor G-body for the engine bay - Second engine (of choice: T1a or T1b, or T2) and automatic transmission (two if you need one to swap for front manual, unless you prefer the combo) - G-body full suspension and swaybar - Frame shop to weld it together (and probably kill your bank account) -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- Solid beam wouldn't work. I'd just use a pair of steering arms that bolted to the K-member or lower control arm. Same thing they did on the Pontiac Fiero's and Fiat X-1/9's. Have you seen the inside of a multi-engine airplane cockpit? There is a standard set of gauges used for an engine. This is replicated for each engine. Makes the cockpit a busy mofo :) So, you'd want two tachs, two water temps, two oil pressure (wait Shadows didn't get those, grrr) two A/F, two EGT. You could set up the ignition to actuate both ignition switches simultaneously (on most cars its just a pushrod that runs down the steering column) or just wire a single ignition box to activate both computers. I don't think you'd need two alternators, but it does make it easier (no futzing with brackets or shorter belts) Mounting the battery behind the passenger seat might help with weight balance and wiring. I think running a single throttle and shifter would help keep the driver sane during the running and keep the car under a little better control. Perhaps adding an external pump for the transaxle would help alleviate any issues there. However, keep in mind that NHRA does not allow multi-engined vehicles to run at their events. This is one of the reasons multi-engined cars don't run at the GRM Challenge. ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
Damn, why can't you guys live in southern California? I have two G-bodies that I would offer up to slaughter for this. -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- Keeping the rack was easier by far. The wheels were straigened out and a short peice of bar stock was welded to the steering input shaft and to the firewall. Any minor alignment changes then could easily be done with the tie-rods like on any car. It took Tom like 10 minutes to set it up. Two dashes for Tach, dummy lights, and Coolant temperature. Coolant temp = very important. As you can see in the picture the glove box was somewhat ripped out and the guage cluster screwed down. Then we had two club members who undestand wiring pretty well wire it up. While this was going on a few other groups worked on other items. I think it only took them a couple of hours. ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
It's not about 8 cyllinders. No offense, but if you had followed the thread more closely, the jist was about AWD and durability and ease compared to minivan driveline. The eight cyllinder comment was unnecessary. -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Paul Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:14 PM To: SDML Subject: SD> dual engine If you want 8 cylinders, get a V8. Richard Paul ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING-- -- Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
Every year or so we have the AWD discussion on SDML. I have followed many. The point is it is easier to put a V8 in with RWD and you get better results. AWD is a bandaid for FWD in this case. Not to many AWD dragsters. Had Jeeps but AWD was for a different purpose. Richard Paul On Oct 26, 2004, at 7:35 PM, Jason Arroyo wrote: It's not about 8 cyllinders. No offense, but if you had followed the thread more closely, the jist was about AWD and durability and ease compared to minivan driveline. The eight cyllinder comment was unnecessary. -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Paul Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:14 PM To: SDML Subject: SD> dual engine If you want 8 cylinders, get a V8. Richard Paul ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN- REPLYING-- -- Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
Richard, Most manufacturer's AWD systems aren't strong enough to handle drag launches, especially when the car is producing more power than it did stock. Quaiffe makes a 6-speed sequential AWD transaxle (for either transverse or north/south mounting) but that's at least $20K and its limited to about 400hp reliably A V-8 RWD conversion would be about the same amount of work since you would have to cut up the rear of the car to mount the rear axle/pumpkin. This is after you build a new tunnel and K-member (since you can't buy Mopar's conversion piece anymore) At that point the car is probably heavier in the nose (unless you spring for an all aluminum V-8 or a V-6 and a 5-speed) In the end it would have been easier to buy a RWD Sports car or Pony car. If you feel that AWD is a bandaid, why was it outlawed in the old IMSA GTO/GTU racing? Why was it outlawed in SCCA Trans-Am racing? Why is is outlawed in Formula 1 racing? In ALMS prototype racing? Why do the Audi and Subarus AWD cars run so much extra ballast and other performance limiting devices in the road racing classes they are currently competing in? Simple. A properly implemented AWD design provides them an unfair advantage (of course BMW has its own AWD version along with Mercedes and Porsche, but they would rather complain to the sanctioning bodies instead) To be honest if you don't have anything constructive to say I really feel you need to ignore the messages and move on with life. Without this discussion this list wouldn't really have much to say right now. Would you really walk up to a group of people you don't know, listen to this discussion and then say what you just said? How do you think they would respond? I know I'd respond similarly to how I've responded here, if not with a bit more edge to my voice. Nice meeting you, Stefan Mullikin Portland, OR Co-Founder PNW-SDAC http://www.pnw-sdac.org 1980 Fiat X-1/9 1984 Dodge Rampage 2.2 1987 Dodge Daytona Shelby Z 1987 Shelby CSX #106 1988 Shelby CSX-T #3 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Paul Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:57 PM To: Jason Arroyo Cc: SDML Subject: Re: SD> dual engine Every year or so we have the AWD discussion on SDML. I have followed many. The point is it is easier to put a V8 in with RWD and you get better results. AWD is a bandaid for FWD in this case. Not to many AWD dragsters. Had Jeeps but AWD was for a different purpose. Richard Paul On Oct 26, 2004, at 7:35 PM, Jason Arroyo wrote: > It's not about 8 cyllinders. No offense, but if you had followed the > thread more closely, the jist was about AWD and durability and ease > compared to minivan driveline. The eight cyllinder comment was > unnecessary. > > -J Southern California Forced Induction > 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II > 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo > 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo > 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 > Supercharged (possibly revived?) > 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo > 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo > 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Paul > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:14 PM > To: SDML > Subject: SD> dual engine > > > If you want 8 cylinders, get a V8. > Richard Paul ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
what about a straight 8?? I mean, I know they havent made them for years, but dont descriminate against the straight 8. > If you want 8 cylinders, get a V8. > Richard Paul ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
Well, they are still making inline 5 and 6 cylinder motors... And I think they do still make inline 8's just their for diesel vehicles :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clay Cooke Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:54 PM To: SDML Subject: Re: SD> dual engine what about a straight 8?? I mean, I know they havent made them for years, but dont descriminate against the straight 8. > If you want 8 cylinders, get a V8. > Richard Paul ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
In a message dated 10/26/2004 7:56:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > It's not about 8 cyllinders. No offense, but if you had followed the > thread more closely, the jist was about AWD and durability and ease > compared to minivan driveline. The eight cyllinder comment was > unnecessary. If someone wants to make a dual engine car I`d like to see it.There was a dual engines golf or rabbit that was really fast in a european magazine about a year ago. I personally wouldn`t be interested in making a dual engine car because of all the added weight, twice as much parts to break,not to mention none of the turbo dodges have a IRS set-up, which I would want to have a decent suspension with all that added weight.I would rather sit a built 2.5 in the back of an omni if I was determined to alter the driveline. This would eliminate a lot of parts,custom made drivelines which are more prone to break,and a lot of weight which adds stress and breakage.Is this dual engined car going to be a street driven car or a drag car?It would probally be better for it to be a street car to have less breakage. I`ve seen 340`s and 440`s in daytona`s that are street driven and I`m sure they would be more durable than putting 2 4 cyl`s in and a lot less expensive to get done.If anyone`s interested in seeing pics of these cars email me. TRAVIS FOSTER,GREENVILLE,S.C. ,89 Shelby CSX-VNT #198,89 daytona shelby<~almost stock, 71 `Cuda 383 original, 98 GC 5.9 limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] , 2000 YUKON XL ,92 Dakota RC SB 5.2 ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
In a message dated 10/26/2004 8:28:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A V-8 RWD conversion would be about the same amount of work since you would have to cut up the rear of the car to mount the rear axle/pumpkin. This is after you build a new tunnel and K-member (since you can't buy Mopar's conversion piece anymore) At that point the car is probably heavier in the nose (unless you spring for an all aluminum V-8 or a V-6 and a 5-speed) In the end it would have been easier to buy a RWD Sports car or Pony car. If you feel that AWD is a bandaid, why was it outlawed in the old IMSA GTO/GTU racing? Why was it outlawed in SCCA Trans-Am racing? Why is is outlawed in Formula 1 racing? In ALMS prototype racing? Why do the Audi and Subarus AWD cars run so much extra ballast and other performance limiting devices in the road racing classes they are currently competing in? Simple. A properly implemented AWD design provides them an unfair advantage I `ve seen the v8 conversion done and they`re actually was no cutting . Using the small rearend from a dakota or older duster.You have to make a custom driveshaft,and the transmission fit into the tunell w/o cutting.You have to fab up the motor mounts. You have to take out part of the rear suspension but the stock hubs and daytona parts can still be used even stock wheels can be left. TRAVIS FOSTER,GREENVILLE,S.C. ,89 Shelby CSX-VNT #198,89 daytona shelby<~almost stock, 71 `Cuda 383 original, 98 GC 5.9 limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] , 2000 YUKON XL ,92 Dakota RC SB 5.2 ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
In a message dated 10/26/2004 12:50:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So now if we consider that you can weld in the entire inner engine bay into the rear of, say, a G body, you would then have ready-to-go shock towers which covers the basic suspension fab needs. All you do then is fashion joints for the A-arm. Hmmm do you use a front sway bar in the rear? But what about electronics? How does this work? Two computers? I would think so. Two alternators? I would imagine that too is a must. Two batteries? Hmmm well with two alternators I suppose a single battery would be more than charged, plus if I understand the basics correctly, the rear engine's alternator would only be supplying power for ignition, starter, and engine/autotrans electronics. So I suppose the question is can one battery crank over two engines at once (or can you just instead fire them up one at a time?) Just some details to consider in a twin-engine (2E) Daytona. Absolutely no need for two alternators. What I would suggest is to ditch an alternator. Uh-oh... then one engine has a little more power than the other. O.K... ditch the alternator off the front engine and the power gain should be offset by not having the power steering pump on the rear engine. Hmmm I have visions of sugar plums dancing in my head!! Later, Jeff ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
STUPID FRIGGIN' AOL can't paste correctly... Try this. <<> Absolutely no need for two alternators. What I would suggest is to ditch an alternator. Uh-oh... then one engine has a little more power than the other. O.K... ditch the alternator off the front engine and the power gain should be offset by not having the power steering pump on the rear engine. Hmmm I have visions of sugar plums dancing in my head!! Later ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
> If you want 8 cylinders, get a V8. > Richard Paul > While others have addressed the above also, I would like to point out that the "$500" (or less) Shadow at SDAC-14 ran mid-low 13's in the quarter. A V8 in one of our cars would not only require about as much fabrication, but it simply would not match the performance for the money invested. Getting a normal RWD layout V8 car to run mid-low 13's usually requires substantial engine mods $$$. They took a run down car, stuck two junk yard drivetrains in it and cracked a 13. Getting that done with any junkyard V8 drivetrain in any fwd or rwd car is not likely to happen. And of course, there is what this thread has been all about; the challenge of doing something different and making it work. Go for it guys! Barry ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
AGAIN I reitterate my first statement that you did not follow the jist of it. So I will do you the honor of quoting my own words: "Stefan, I'm not really looking at NHRA. Especially since they hate sport compacts and anything four cyllinder anyways, and have only recently turned attention to them because they were upset at IDRC for stealing a piece of what they feel is THEIR [NHRA's] pie." and "I'm discussing a street toy, and show stopper, that gets doubletakes from passers-by at carshows (when both hatch and hood are popped and "bragging" for themselves), and on the road when it's scaring the living hell out of three passengers (and perhaps even the driver), taking canyons and long stretches with equal visciousness." I don't really care about dragracing. And I have news for you, AWD DSM's are running rediculously low times at the strip, and are right up there with the RWD big boys in the 9's. So unless you are talking funnycars and dragrails (which is way irrellevant), you're still off-base. Maybe you haven't ever owned an AWD tuned turbocar. I have. I've also driven in street-trim 11-second AWD cars. I've taken corners at speeds that would have spun out RWD vehicles, and that FWD vehicles would have slid out of. The point of AWD is not drag racing or street racing in a straight line. It's control. Some of us enjoy turning the wheel once in a while. Super-whiplash launches are just a perk. An AWD Daytona with a twin engine setup is the easiest way to get AWD in a G-body. I've already stated the reasons why for the archives if you choose to "remember" what it was I had said. There are more benefits. I wouldn't go with a heavy azz V8 in the front of my G-body if you paid me. At least with the twin engine setup, while adding more weight, it's better balanced than some RWD conversion. And besides... The biggest factor of all: I absolutely *despise* formula as good simply because it's generally accepted. Any old-school speed shop full of half-wits can stuff a V8 whatever into anything. Not everyone can make a twin engine AWD setup and make it work well. I'm not opposed to challenges to my ideas. Heaven knows this list has over the years challenged me a number of times. But I would hope you would be more aware of the flow of my comments. Thank you. -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo -- AWD, maybe you should try it ;) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message----- From: Richard Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 4:57 PM To: Jason Arroyo Cc: SDML Subject: Re: SD> dual engine Every year or so we have the AWD discussion on SDML. I have followed many. The point is it is easier to put a V8 in with RWD and you get better results. AWD is a bandaid for FWD in this case. Not to many AWD dragsters. Had Jeeps but AWD was for a different purpose. Richard Paul On Oct 26, 2004, at 7:35 PM, Jason Arroyo wrote: ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
Well, to get things back more onto Shelby Dodge turbos, I'll point out that the comments Stefan made below illustrate one of the larger advantages to a twin engine AWD setup. Each of the trannies was designed to be strong enough to handle the whole car on its own, so two means the whole setup is extremely durable. Moreso probably than a typical single engine AWD or even perhaps a RWD. Although I should point out that DSM AWD systems are indeed dragging successfully, in the 10's and I think one in the 9's. Of course they run Quaifes in the center and rear diffs, but these aren't the 6-speed setups, these are OEM drivelines with quaife diffs. And they work great. Without that, however, anything over 13 seconds, and you are playing russian roulette with your AWD system. Still, I think I am more and more intrerested in a 2E G-body. I have a FWD 1G DSM and I know it's been done on those, so I might want to look into that too. But Daytona first! :) -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- Most manufacturer's AWD systems aren't strong enough to handle drag launches, especially when the car is producing more power than it did stock. Quaiffe makes a 6-speed sequential AWD transaxle (for either transverse or north/south mounting) but that's at least $20K and its limited to about 400hp reliably ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
Actually, if I used the same method that they did with that Shadow, I would have IRS. It would essentially be the front suspension duplicated in the rear. That was one of the other advantages I cited. -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- because of all the added weight, twice as much parts to break,not to mention none of the turbo dodges have a IRS set-up, which I would want to have a decent suspension with all that added weight.I would rather sit a built 2.5 in the ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
I've seen pictures of one of these. I can imagine it spinning out on turns. No thanks :) -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- I `ve seen the v8 conversion done and they`re actually was no cutting . Using the small rearend from a dakota or older duster.You have to make a custom driveshaft,and the transmission fit into the tunell w/o cutting.You have to fab up the motor mounts. You have to take out part of the rear suspension but the stock hubs and daytona parts can still be used even stock wheels can be left. ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
Ooo! [ephiphone moment experienced] WOW that makes total sense. I actually spoke with a cohort last night about this. I'm good friends with a computer modeller. I am going to ask him if he can model the project so when we make cuts we make them PRECISE. This is important since I have been hammering home the handling advantages. I have two G-bodies. I have no sanity. I have no shame. I have no reason not to at least do the planning for this, and then maybe, go through with it. It would be a er job than the Shadow.. Those guys blew us away with literally their throwtogether project. It's awesome. But I want something clean, functional, and beneficial. I wouldn't be happy with a hastilly-grafted setup. The boys with the Shadow have paved the way IMO for a refined approach. I think they are great for what they've done. Now maybe someone can step it up a notch. In a G-body. -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- Just some details to consider in a twin-engine (2E) Daytona.>> Absolutely no need for two alternators. What I would suggest is to ditch an alternator. Uh-oh... then one engine has a little more power than the other. O.K... ditch the alternator off the front engine and the power gain should be offset by not having the power steering pump on the rear engine. Hmmm I have visions of sugar plums dancing in my head!! Later ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
It probably wouldn't be any worse than a Fox-body mustang. Oh wait it would probably be better since the Fox rear suspension sucks, lol... (it's a documented fact that the short 4-link setup is horrid at the limit and will bind causing the rear end to come loose, many road racers remove the upper link bushings to help reduce binding) A lightweight V-8/5-speed with the proper setback wouldn't be too bad, but aluminum V-8's aren't a dime a dozen (at least if you wanted to stay Mopar all the way) Stefan -Original Message- From: Jason Arroyo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mullikin, Stefan P Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: SD> dual engine I've seen pictures of one of these. I can imagine it spinning out on turns. No thanks :) -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- I `ve seen the v8 conversion done and they`re actually was no cutting . Using the small rearend from a dakota or older duster.You have to make a custom driveshaft,and the transmission fit into the tunell w/o cutting.You have to fab up the motor mounts. You have to take out part of the rear suspension but the stock hubs and daytona parts can still be used even stock wheels can be left. ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
In a message dated 10/27/2004 1:01:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've seen pictures of one of these. I can imagine it spinning out on turns. No thanks :) You`re mostly right on the front being too heavy and it could spin out more so than an AWD in curves. I`m sure the 2 motored AWD set-up would be a lot better for the twisties. If the rear motor is close or behind the rear wheels it still could spin out and if it does it would do so very fast.If the rear engine was in front of the wheels it would act more like a mid-engine car and handle a lot better. I wasn`t saying AWD`s weren`t quick drag racing just backyard engineeered ones I`d be very careful with at first until all bugs are worked out.It sounds like a great project.If I`d ever attempt a project like this,I`d have a cummins dodge motor in the back of a flat black glh-t with the stacks coming out through the rear windows. 500 hp with 1400 lbs of torque would really move an omni. TRAVIS FOSTER,GREENVILLE,S.C. ,89 Shelby CSX-VNT #198,89 daytona shelby<~almost stock, 71 `Cuda 383 original, 98 GC 5.9 limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] , 2000 YUKON XL ,92 Dakota RC SB 5.2 ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
Yep and Quaiffe diffs aren't cheap. Considering how few of us run them in our FWD cars, it speaks volumes to where the money isn't (there are of course always exceptions to this) The cheap solution is a twin-engined car. Hmm, maybe you could add a set of box flares like on the Daytona Prototype or the IMSA Daytona's? That would look cool. I still wanna build a tubular K-frame with proper arms (longer) and joints (heim-style) Perhaps a version could be made that will essentially bolt up in the rear... Considering the work involved with building the 520/555 rod linkage conversion bracket for the Omni (looks good, albeit a bit complex, heh) I think they would be too much work for not enough market for either, but a fun thought none the less :) Stefan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Arroyo Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:55 AM To: SDML Subject: RE: SD> dual engine Well, to get things back more onto Shelby Dodge turbos, I'll point out that the comments Stefan made below illustrate one of the larger advantages to a twin engine AWD setup. Each of the trannies was designed to be strong enough to handle the whole car on its own, so two means the whole setup is extremely durable. Moreso probably than a typical single engine AWD or even perhaps a RWD. Although I should point out that DSM AWD systems are indeed dragging successfully, in the 10's and I think one in the 9's. Of course they run Quaifes in the center and rear diffs, but these aren't the 6-speed setups, these are OEM drivelines with quaife diffs. And they work great. Without that, however, anything over 13 seconds, and you are playing russian roulette with your AWD system. Still, I think I am more and more intrerested in a 2E G-body. I have a FWD 1G DSM and I know it's been done on those, so I might want to look into that too. But Daytona first! :) -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- Most manufacturer's AWD systems aren't strong enough to handle drag launches, especially when the car is producing more power than it did stock. Quaiffe makes a 6-speed sequential AWD transaxle (for either transverse or north/south mounting) but that's at least $20K and its limited to about 400hp reliably ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
Well, open the hood of one of your cars and look in the engine bay. Now imaging that moved, lock, stock and smoking barrel into the trunk. The drivetrain would be in front of the rear wheels (albeit barely) With proper suspension tuning it would probably work reasonably well. I agree that the car might handle a little like a mid-engined car in the corners. (read: don't lift!) but that's the way the some of the cars handle at the limit now. At the limit of adhesion, if you lift off the throttle in a FWD car you'll transfer more weight to the already overworked front tires. The chances of either losing adhesion in the rear tires or more likely, the front are greatly increased at that point. Just requires some finesse in your driving. Commit to the corner ahead of time. Slow down in a straight line before the corner. Turn the wheel just enough to reach the apex (you're looking there, right?), let the car settle onto the suspension and leave it there. Accelerate smoothly out of the apex. Feels slow, but its usually the fastest way through the corner. BTW, If you have to adjust the throttle mid corner, do so slowly and with small adjustments. If the front tires lose adhesion, straighten the wheel and pump the brakes, reattempt the turn into the corner, repeat until the car can navigate the corner or you run out of road. The fun part is doing this with 20-30 other people all trying to reach the same apex at the same time. No wonder road racing is so expensive, eh? Best Regards, Stefan Mullikin Portland, OR Co-Founder PNW-SDAC http://www.pnw <http://www.pnw/> -sdac.org 1980 Fiat X-1/9 1984 Dodge Rampage 2.2 1987 Dodge Daytona Shelby Z 1987 Shelby CSX #106 1988 Shelby CSX-T #3 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 10:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mullikin, Stefan P Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SD> dual engine In a message dated 10/27/2004 1:01:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've seen pictures of one of these. I can imagine it spinning out on turns. No thanks :) You`re mostly right on the front being too heavy and it could spin out more so than an AWD in curves. I`m sure the 2 motored AWD set-up would be a lot better for the twisties. If the rear motor is close or behind the rear wheels it still could spin out and if it does it would do so very fast.If the rear engine was in front of the wheels it would act more like a mid-engine car and handle a lot better. I wasn`t saying AWD`s weren`t quick drag racing just backyard engineeered ones I`d be very careful with at first until all bugs are worked out.It sounds like a great project.If I`d ever attempt a project like this,I`d have a cummins dodge motor in the back of a flat black glh-t with the stacks coming out through the rear windows. 500 hp with 1400 lbs of torque would really move an omni. TRAVIS FOSTER,GREENVILLE,S.C. ,89 Shelby CSX-VNT #198,89 daytona shelby<~almost stock, 71 `Cuda 383 original, 98 GC 5.9 limited [EMAIL PROTECTED]@90 ] , 2000 YUKON XL ,92 Dakota RC SB 5.2 ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine
- -Original Message- I `ve seen the v8 conversion done and they`re actually was no cutting . Using the small rearend from a dakota or older duster.You have to make a custom driveshaft,and the transmission fit into the tunell w/o cutting.You have to fab up the motor mounts. You have to take out part of the rear suspension but the stock hubs and daytona parts can still be used even stock wheels can be left. actually i feel the need to raise the B.S. flag on this one before someone actually tries to do this and either gets physically hurt, or pissed off that they will have to cut and install a tranny tunnel, or have a front wheel fly off. first off you cannot use the stock FWD hubs and bearings on the front since everything is pressed together on the FWD wheelbearings. as such if you did this there would be nothing to retain the wheel hub from flying off the car in an extreme cornering situation except mebbe the fact that it is pressed onto the bearings inner race. Scairy thought. you could probably use the stock front bearings and hubs if you use the outer axle stub and spline assembly from a FWD axle, and nut and cotter key it in place on the hub to keep it from pulling apart. the nut on a FWD axle is what holds the hub from coming off the bearings inner race. second thing is have any of you ever seen a torqueflight A727 or A904 RWD tranny??? they are not tiny. neither is the spread of the bellhousing. tho a smallblock V8 A904 tranny is a little smaller. if you do a RWD V8 conversion with the MP K member OR from scratch you WILL be cutting and welding in tranny tunnel to make that transmission fit. this is a fact. depending on how the engine sits you will either have grind away some of your heater box on the bottom or remove it entirely to make way for the tranny tunnel. the MP K member has a rectangular hole in the middle for a center sump oil pan for a V8 to fit into. it also uses a dakota manual rack and pinion. think of where the stock rack sits on your K frame for FWD. the dakota rack is mounted in the front of the K member but at roughly the same height as your stocker. now look at a small block dodge engine. there is no way it will ever mount low enough to not have to modify the tranny tunnel. if you did lower it enough to clear the tranny tunnel and leave it unmolested then the oil pan would be touching the ground for the trans to clear, and you would have to put the front wheels on stilts for the V8 engines oil pan to not touch the ground. it would kinda look like a big daddy ed roth creation gone horribly wrong LOL. as far as the rear end is concerned. there isnt enough room to stuff a standard RWD live axle back there and be able to have enough clearance without cutting and modifying the back end of the car. a DeDeion setup for the rear would be easier on the cutting and hacking part but you still would need to fabricate. easiest way to putting a RWD axle in a daytona is to go and order up a jegster back half kit, all the tinwork to go with it, and a narrowed 9" ford to go with it. i have seen 3 different cars at mopar shows 2 of which had the the MP V8 conversions, and 1 with a custom conversion. 1 dodge shadow, and 2 daytonas. all 3 required the tranny tunnel to be cut and modified to fit a RWD tranny. none of them used FWD wheelbearings and hubs for the front wheels. just the facts M'aam nat ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine
In a message dated 10/27/2004 10:31:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: actually i feel the need to raise the B.S. flag on this one before someone actually tries to do this and either gets physically hurt, or pissed off that they will have to cut and install a tranny tunnel, or have a front wheel fly off. If you`d like to see some pics ,I have some I`ll forward you. The guy has been driving it as a daily car since I`ve known him since around 1989.It hasn`t given him a bit of problem on either one he drives. TRAVIS FOSTER,GREENVILLE,S.C. ,89 Shelby CSX-VNT #198,89 daytona shelby<~almost stock, 71 `Cuda 383 original, 98 GC 5.9 limited [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] , 2000 YUKON XL ,92 Dakota RC SB 5.2 ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine handling
The torque converters of Two Automatics would do this. And no, you are right both engines need to be ON. -J Southern California Forced Induction 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II 1986 Chrysler Laser XE Turbo 1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo 1991 Mitsu Eclispe GSX Turbo(for sale) 1990 VW Corrado G60 Supercharged (possibly revived?) 1984 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1985 Nissan 200SX Turbo 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: SD> dual engine handling Just thinking out loud here but wouldn't a dual engine car need to be set up perfectly to handle well? What I mean is, you may need to somehow link the two outputs together so that the transmission of power is equal to the front and rear. If the rear is pushing slightly harder in a turn than the front it would spin out. Think about a motorcycle with the front brake on slightly and full throttle in a turn. Also on a similar topic someone mentioned running one engine off in neutral. I don't claim to fully understand how auto transmissions work but isn't it hard on them to move at high speed with the engine off? When I drove a tow truck we had to pick up the drive wheels. I think it has something to do with the auto transmission's pump being driven by the engine. ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING-- -- Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine handling
I seem to remember Volkswagen putting together a factory dual engined Golf or Jetta several years back. There was a good little article on it in Motor Trend. A little research may generate which year and issue it was... may throw some good info into the mix. Later, Sandy '85 600 'Vert, 2.2 T1, just turned 30k miles '70 HEMI Road Runner, B5/B5, 4spd, project www.sandysgarage.com www.garagecams.com > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:00 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: SD> dual engine handling > > > Just thinking out loud here but wouldn't a dual engine car need to be > set up > perfectly to handle well? ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine handling
There was also a dual engined Mini built back when they first were produced (think way back now). I believe it killed the designer of the Mini or one of his engineers when they ran into a train trestle and some ungodly amount of speed. Before that the person had been driving it quite often. I'll see if I can dig up the story (it was online), which might shed light on how they got around some of the issues that people have brought up so far. Regards, Stefan Mullikin Portland, OR Co-Founder PNW-SDAC http://www.pnw-sdac.org 1980 Fiat X-1/9 1984 Dodge Rampage 2.2 1987 Dodge Daytona Shelby Z 1987 Shelby CSX #106 1988 Shelby CSX-T #3 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sandy Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 8:50 AM To: SDML(Shelby List) Subject: Re: SD> dual engine handling I seem to remember Volkswagen putting together a factory dual engined Golf or Jetta several years back. There was a good little article on it in Motor Trend. A little research may generate which year and issue it was... may throw some good info into the mix. Later, Sandy '85 600 'Vert, 2.2 T1, just turned 30k miles '70 HEMI Road Runner, B5/B5, 4spd, project www.sandysgarage.com www.garagecams.com > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:00 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: SD> dual engine handling > > > Just thinking out loud here but wouldn't a dual engine car need to be > set up perfectly to handle well? ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
Re: SD> dual engine handling
I can't comment too much about the Shadow's handling. It did look real good and fast around some corners on the streets of Milwaukee. But we set it up for drag, never really thought of handling... Car was created because it was determined that the only way we can go fast with this Club car is to do it cheaply. (XPSI doesn't have membership dues/fees) What I can tell you is that it went 13.4 with a 1.89 sixty foot and it weighs in at about 3100lb. And for anyone wanting to build a dual engine car you'll have to worry about setting up and adjusting the brake system (4 wheel front disc) long before you want to worry about handling. Also, we all know what a turbo spooling up sounds like, right? When the Shadow spools up, you get spool up in stereo. :) Jeff Chojnacki http://home.wi.rr.com/jpcturbo '87 Lebaron 2.2 T2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] '88 Daytona Shelby Z '88 Caravan TBI Waukesha, WI. Member ExtremePSI, SDAC - Original Message - From: "Mullikin, Stefan P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Sandy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SDML(Shelby List)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: RE: SD> dual engine handling > There was also a dual engined Mini built back when they first were > produced (think way back now). I believe it killed the designer of the > Mini or one of his engineers when they ran into a train trestle and some > ungodly amount of speed. Before that the person had been driving it > quite often. I'll see if I can dig up the story (it was online), which > might shed light on how they got around some of the issues that people > have brought up so far ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
RE: SD> dual engine possible gage solution
i figured i would add my own .02 on the dual engine matter in order to mebbe help someone who wants do do this in a little more refined manner and not monster garage ish as intertaining as it is. as far as the gages go if you look in aircraft spruce and specialty catalog , in the engine gages section you can find dual gages like tachometers with 2 needles on one center shaft. each needle in the gage has a little flag on the pointer with either a R or a L printed on it. this way on a twin engine aircraft as long as both engines are running the same RPMs both needles line up on the gage. and you need only 1 RPM gage to read both engines and one hole to fit it in. they have other gages with dual needles too. this way you can stuff all the engines vital instruments mebbe in one stock gage opening in the dash instead of having gages and instrument clusters all over the place. also mebbe run the alternators on a split circuit with 2 batteries and an electrical crossover so if you lose one alternator you can electrically disconnect it and isolate it from the system while driving via a switch, the one remaining operational can supply the power until you can fix the broken one. kinda like a backup/isolation system in an aircraft. good luck on the push me pull me project to all who endeavour to do it.. personally i think i will keep my T'ona shelby Z FWD and keep the plasma cutter away from the hatch area LOL mat ---REMOVE-FOOTER-WHEN-REPLYING Questions? Visit http://www.sdml.org/ To be removed, visit http://www.sdml.org/pages/leave.html
