Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
Vinayak Hegde wrote: I think the electoral rolls were messed up for quite a few people. I know of 4 instances (all hindu if that helps) of names being mangled and names being deleted amongst my friends. I think it is more to do with improper process (and incompetent officials) rather than any bias. Some people I know are of the opinion that there are corrupt officials who work with the politicians and delete the names if they suspect that the votes are going to their opponent. His argument seemed plausible, but I do not buy it. Has anyone else heard such stuff? Is this true? I have stopped reading mainstream newspapers as all they look for nowadays is a good story - truth be damned. Sad but true. Don't forget the TV channels. All they want is a straw and they will sensationalize it. Reminds of a recent sighting on News 9, a Bangalore based local news channel. They were making a big hue and cry about a program that was going to be aired later that night that was based on the news that a woman was growing 'pot' in pots at home. The ad was sounding as if it was a gruesome mass murder. Venkat
Re: [silk] Need some help
Thanks for this reply . -- this was the kind of elucidation that helped me understand things better. One of the many benefits of Silklist. On the US election stuff, it vetted to the nation a lot of the gender discrimination that still exists. There's plenty of discrimination that persist, though things continue to improve. I look to Western Europe mainly as the vanguard of human society. The US has a way to go before we're there. But I blame them for sending all the religious extremists here some several hundreds of years ago. And I saw Goody Proctor consorting with the Devil!!! :-)
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
Don't forget the TV channels. All they want is a straw and they will sensationalize it. Reminds of a recent sighting on News 9, a Bangalore based local news channel. They were making a big hue and cry about a program that was going to be aired later that night that was based on the news that a woman was growing 'pot' in pots at home. The ad was sounding as if it was a gruesome mass murder. Hey, you need ratings to get Nivea and Garnier to sell their skin lightening products. Apparently no one believes the Western World when we say that Indians are good looking the way they are. And we'd like to be darker. I've been sunburned twice here already. It's unpleasant. But to quote Perry Farrell from Jane's Addiction, -- The news is just another show selling sex and violence -- Ted, Just Admit It from the album Nothing's Shocking
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
sic lightening On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Ravi Bellur rav...@gmail.com wrote: Don't forget the TV channels. All they want is a straw and they will sensationalize it. Reminds of a recent sighting on News 9, a Bangalore based local news channel. They were making a big hue and cry about a program that was going to be aired later that night that was based on the news that a woman was growing 'pot' in pots at home. The ad was sounding as if it was a gruesome mass murder. Hey, you need ratings to get Nivea and Garnier to sell their skin lightening products. Apparently no one believes the Western World when we say that Indians are good looking the way they are. And we'd like to be darker. I've been sunburned twice here already. It's unpleasant. But to quote Perry Farrell from Jane's Addiction, -- The news is just another show selling sex and violence -- Ted, Just Admit It from the album Nothing's Shocking
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
(Bah, gmail on blackberry does not allow bottom posting) As someone once said, do not attribute to malice that which can be sufficiently attributed to stupidity. The voter ID card creation and distribution business is extremely low margin and quick turn around, and the contract goes to the lowest bidder with verified credentials who may legally further subcontract it to fly by night operators to keep costs low. I don't think anyone in the entire process chain is paid to think. Cheeni On 4/25/09, Biju Chacko biju.cha...@gmail.com wrote: I'm getting a fair amount of anecdotal evidence to support reports that minorities have been systematically disenfranchised. Other than the reports in the paper of widespread deletion of muslim names from electoral rolls, I've been been hearing a lot from Christians as well. I've heard of: * Names marked 'deleted' on the rolls. * Names missing (which were present online just a month ago). * Voter Registration attempts being rejected without explanation. Even if the cases are not statistically significant enough prove anything, the very fact that the stories are making the rounds are indicative of the suspicious and mistrustful attitude developing in the community. That's definitely worrying -- many indications are that Indian society is more divided along caste and religious lines now than at any time since independence. *sigh* Time to start moving assets abroad? -- b -- Sent from my mobile device Cheeni Q: Why is this email 5 sentences or fewer? A: http://five.sentenc.es/
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.comwrote: (Bah, gmail on blackberry does not allow bottom posting) As someone once said, do not attribute to malice that which can be sufficiently attributed to stupidity. Napolean Boneparte
Re: [silk] Need some help
Welcome to our western nightmare: men are the eye candy accessories. http://omg.yahoo.com/news/melissa-rycroft-and-beau-make-red-carpet-debut-at-us-hot-hollywood-party/21664?nc Sad that the wrong side won (instead of liberating women from superficial oppression, we just subsumed men to the same thing... that said, the west is full of single mom's raising the children of passion and looking for stable men to do this. Nothing wrong with that, but from an evolutionary perspective, what genes are being progenerated? Maybe that's why India seems so nutty about controlling (and out of respect for this list, I'll walk away from the obvious, latin based double entrendre) whom women are with. That said, on the discovery channel, I'm watching a naked sadhu pull a jeep with his penis. This is one crazy place -- and I mean that in the best and worst ways, simultaneously.
Re: [silk] Need some help
--- On Sat, 25/4/09, Ravi Bellur rav...@gmail.com wrote: From: Ravi Bellur rav...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [silk] Need some help To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Saturday, 25 April, 2009, 9:25 PM Welcome to our western nightmare: men are the eye candy accessories. http://omg.yahoo.com/news/melissa-rycroft-and-beau-make-red-carpet-debut-at-us-hot-hollywood-party/21664?nc Sad that the wrong side won (instead of liberating women from superficial oppression, we just subsumed men to the same thing... that said, the west is full of single mom's raising the children of passion and looking for stable men to do this. Nothing wrong with that, but from an evolutionary perspective, what genes are being progenerated? Maybe that's why India seems so nutty about controlling (and out of respect for this list, I'll walk away from the obvious, latin based double entrendre) whom women are with. That said, on the discovery channel, I'm watching a naked sadhu pull a jeep with his penis. This is one crazy place -- and I mean that in the best and worst ways, simultaneously. Oh dear. Have you really, really nothing else to do on a Saturday evening? Now surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/firefox/?fr=om_email_firefox
Re: [silk] Need some help
But I blame them for sending all the religious extremists here some several hundreds of years ago. They didn't send them -- the Puritans went of their own free will, having first been unhappy in england and then having been afraid that their children were growing up far too tolerant among the dutch. Next time I hear a US american moaning that middle eastern societies (a) have too much religious influence in politics (b) execute criminals barbarically and (c) have silly hangups about how much skin a woman may modestly show, I will have to laugh*. -Dave * although it would be difficult to top GW outside countries shouldn't meddle in Iraq's internal affairs B for sheer lack of reflectivity...
[silk] stupidity (was disenfranchised minorities)
Of course I am not trying to be stupidly meticulous (quite often quotations are attributed to different people - and sometimes it isn't easy to tell who said what). But I have always been fascinated with human stupidity (and I've written a book about it). It may help to place some comments in historical perspective. As someone once said, do not attribute to malice that which can be sufficiently attributed to stupidity. That's known an Hanlon's Razor (Robert Heinlein, 1941) It's reported that Napoleon Bonaparte (French spelling) said: In politics stupidity is not a handicap. Cheers Giancarlo
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
On Saturday 25 Apr 2009 10:16:00 am Biju Chacko wrote: I'm getting a fair amount of anecdotal evidence to support reports that minorities have been systematically disenfranchised. Other than the reports in the paper of widespread deletion of muslim names from electoral rolls, I've been been hearing a lot from Christians as well. I've heard of: * Names marked 'deleted' on the rolls. * Names missing (which were present online just a month ago). * Voter Registration attempts being rejected without explanation. Even if the cases are not statistically significant enough prove anything, the very fact that the stories are making the rounds are indicative of the suspicious and mistrustful attitude developing in the community. That's definitely worrying -- many indications are that Indian society is more divided along caste and religious lines now than at any time since independence. *sigh* Time to start moving assets abroad? -- b Biju have you checked how many Hindus had their names deleted? May I put it to you that when a Christian or Muslim finds his name absent it is minority discrimination. When a Hindu finds his name absent - it is Indian inefficiency and corruption. Without saying that there is no discrimination, I must point out that the tactic used by Christianity and Islam, throughout history is to continuouly allege discrimination and play victim. By design Chriatianity and Islam are always under attack as evidenced by the ever present stories of discsimination. To me this might be another case of crying wolf as usual. shiv
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
--- On Sun, 26/4/09, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: From: ss cybers...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities? To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2009, 5:35 AM On Saturday 25 Apr 2009 10:16:00 am Biju Chacko wrote: I'm getting a fair amount of anecdotal evidence to support reports that minorities have been systematically disenfranchised. Other than the reports in the paper of widespread deletion of muslim names from electoral rolls, I've been been hearing a lot from Christians as well. I've heard of: * Names marked 'deleted' on the rolls. * Names missing (which were present online just a month ago). * Voter Registration attempts being rejected without explanation. Even if the cases are not statistically significant enough prove anything, the very fact that the stories are making the rounds are indicative of the suspicious and mistrustful attitude developing in the community. That's definitely worrying -- many indications are that Indian society is more divided along caste and religious lines now than at any time since independence. *sigh* Time to start moving assets abroad? -- b Biju have you checked how many Hindus had their names deleted? May I put it to you that when a Christian or Muslim finds his name absent it is minority discrimination. When a Hindu finds his name absent - it is Indian inefficiency and corruption. Without saying that there is no discrimination, I must point out that the tactic used by Christianity and Islam, throughout history is to continuouly allege discrimination and play victim. By design Chriatianity and Islam are always under attack as evidenced by the ever present stories of discsimination. To me this might be another case of crying wolf as usual. shiv I think taking the fact that names are missing, and are regularly excluded from the lists, point to corruption and to mechanical re-working of the lists at intervals to show billable activity, rather than to discrimination. It is obvious that the bulk of names missing from a Hindu majority area will be Hindu; in a Christian majority area will be Christian; and so on, and so forth. We should be asking ourselves different questions: (i) Why cannot I show my PAN card for purposes of identification and then vote, without any other formal identification being needed? Or my BSNL telephone bill? Or my driving license? (ii) Why cannot the voters' id card be left to be issued only to those who have no other id? (iii) Why are names systematically mangled and details botched up, not at the outset, but after they have been correctly recorded in the first instance? Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your favourite Yahoo! group at http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
Shiv +1 Even my dad who is a Hindu, could not vote in Bangalore Central, with is a new constituency after the recent delimitation process and where Sangliana, a Christian has won last Loksabha seat on a BJP ticket and is now on a Congress ticket. My dad's name was not in the lists even though my mother's and my name were included in the list. We are assuming that since we changed address from Mysore to Bangalore, the officials might have erred in including Dad's name in the lists. But, I'd like to find out the real reason somehow. In nutshell, I strongly detest this victimhood and speaking from religious view points from anyone be it - Hindu, Muslim and Christian. It is fairly understandable to see this emanating from poor sections of society. But I find it loathable if it is from highly educated sections of the society. It is quite sad that the Election Commission, which needs to be praised for working hard to ensure elections go off smoothly in a great democratic country like India, still has lots of questions to be answered on it's plate. -- Bharat On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 8:05 PM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: Biju have you checked how many Hindus had their names deleted? May I put it to you that when a Christian or Muslim finds his name absent it is minority discrimination. When a Hindu finds his name absent - it is Indian inefficiency and corruption. Without saying that there is no discrimination, I must point out that the tactic used by Christianity and Islam, throughout history is to continuouly allege discrimination and play victim. By design Chriatianity and Islam are always under attack as evidenced by the ever present stories of discsimination. To me this might be another case of crying wolf as usual. shiv
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
Btw, Just few small corrections on typos: Even my dad who is a Hindu, could not vote in Bangalore Central, with with - which answered on it's plate. it's - its Moreover, a friend informs me that the Election Commission usually does a survey of the persons who have not voted and if they find that particular person has not voted and hasn't been found around at the address they have given earlier, such names are marked as deleted on the rolls. There could be other plausible reasons as well. Thanks, -- Bharat
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:36 AM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote: (ii) Why cannot the voters' id card be left to be issued only to those who have no other id? I'd prefer ONE Indian Card which will serve the purpose of a national's identification for all social services provided by the government. The latter however raises the question of which government service is still usable by all Indians. (iii) Why are names systematically mangled and details botched up, not at the outset, but after they have been correctly recorded in the first instance? hmm dont forget that Indians take pride in their mother-tongue, so your name (with details included) will be correctly recorded in the State's local language and then transcribed to the National language and finally when its printed in the colonial lingua franca, you'd not recognize yourself even if your name bit your nose. -- .
[silk] rent
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Dave Long dave.l...@bluewin.ch wrote: the hassle when it turns out that the person you rented out the flat to isn't timely with the rent. The landlord will gobble the security deposit if a tenant does not pay the rent for a few months. If a tenant was financially smart, s/he will hardly want to loose _that_ big a sum of money in lieu of the monthly one. -- .
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
--- On Sun, 26/4/09, . svaks...@gmail.com wrote: From: . svaks...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities? To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2009, 9:38 AM On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 7:36 AM, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote: (ii) Why cannot the voters' id card be left to be issued only to those who have no other id? I'd prefer ONE Indian Card which will serve the purpose of a national's identification for all social services provided by the government. The latter however raises the question of which government service is still usable by all Indians. (iii) Why are names systematically mangled and details botched up, not at the outset, but after they have been correctly recorded in the first instance? hmm dont forget that Indians take pride in their mother-tongue, so your name (with details included) will be correctly recorded in the State's local language and then transcribed to the National language and finally when its printed in the colonial lingua franca, you'd not recognize yourself even if your name bit your nose. -- . While I say this, it is not without recognition of the hazards of handing over too much information to a dysfunctional system of administration. There has been tremendous resistance to the single national card idea from civil liberties quarters, and they should not be discounted altogether. Having said that, we still have too many id cards and proofs of identity floating around (passport was yet another) and could do with a single-point card. What it should be is a moot point. About the need for caution with regional languages: I shall heed your warning and shall duly caution my nose. Fortunately, my name is short: one of those at school regularly burst the banks of various forms with his Chandrika Prasad Choudhury. Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter http://beta.cricket.yahoo.com
