Re: CShard science on homozon
Chuck wrote: Try to get it on approval in case the ozone smell bothers you. It doesn't bother me, but my wife can't stand it. The unit of 5 in 1 Ozone processor installed in my clinic premises keeps purring away merrily non-stop for the past 7 days. It is an add-on for evaluation and research. My fish enjoy the 15 minute of ozonated bath at 15 mg/hour because ozone cleans up their moldy left-overs. My canine friend, Jimmy, who sleeps beside me was a bit restless the past few days. This morning I found him sleeping in the store-room . It could be the odour. Definitely, Gentle Jim,smells better now. In passing, it is found that animals like elephants communicate by generating extremely low frequencies [ELF]. It may come as a surprise that the feline family, with exception of tigers, generates atmospheric electro- magnetic waves of 14 Hz [Extremely Low Frequencies - ELF ] which have anecdotally provided relief to rheumatic patients.Hence, the proverbial picture of an old lady carrying a cat in her arms.The skeletal components in the human system form a crystalline organ regulating the resonance of internal and external vibrational signatures. The skin,bones and muscles are good sonic conductors. The thoughts, as visible speech, we hear in silent reading, are osseous vibrations,amplified by mineralised body cavities. Hugging a cat, a dog or a tree for that matter, has healing effects,emotionally and physically, due to the filtering and rectifying transmission of healthy oscillations to the human organism by resonance. As proven by Russian Tesla technology experiments in the 1950s, prokaryo organisms produce an external electromagnetic field which consists of the combined radiations from the millions of moving molecules in the biological system. Humans also produce electrofield frequences in much the same way, except that the nervous system plays a more significant role. The Kaznacheyev experiments proved conlusively that cellular death and disease pattern due to absorbed Ultra-Violet Death photons from dead cells, can be transmitted and induced electromagnetically. In Rife's technology, it is the Universal Vibratory Language that Rife wanted to share : the resonance of vibrational signatures. The French biologist, Jacques Beneviste, demonstrated in Digital Biology that healing can be effected electronically through the internet for transmission with a sample, as the vibratory signature of the medicine. With regards Lew - Original Message - From: cking...@nycap.rr.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:06 AM Subject: Re: CShard science on homozon Try to get it on approval in case the ozone smell bothers you. It doesn't bother me, but my wife can't stand it. I'll put it on for a day if I see the need, rather than run continuous. Seems to work good for mold. Chuck Honk If You Love Peace and Quiet. On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:02:51 -0500, TJ Garland goldenok...@hotmail.com wrote: Does onyone have any experience with the Alpine ozone and ion air cleaners.. They apparently use Tesla Tech. and claim that they send their radio waves through walls to kill bugs inc. mites. Rife technology? I am considering buying one for molds in the basement. Thanks. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe: Light versus dark
Well, I still didn't get it right. To Wild Bill and the others who finally got to my suggested link at www.silverfacts.org, the place that actually contained info on CS and light, magnetic fields, etc, is http://www.pure-silver-colloid.com/hype-fact.html. Ken has already answered most of it with his posting. regards, Kevin Nolan
Re: CSRe: Light versus dark
Thanks Kevin. I found that site about hype versus fact and it was eye opening. We read so many opposing opinions though that I wonder if someone else will say that THAT article is wrong. LOL Wild Bill ---Original Message--- From: silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 07:02:36 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSRe: Light versus dark Well, I still didn't get it right. To Wild Bill and the others who finally got to my suggested link at www.silverfacts.org, the place that actually contained info on CS and light, magnetic fields, etc, is http://www pure-silver-colloid.com/hype-fact.html. Ken has already answered most of it with his posting. regards, Kevin Nolan
Re: CSRe: a reason to buy 400ppm CS
If you carry 5 gallon buckets of gas and dump them into your tank, you get a really good feel for how much gas you really burn. I did that for a couple of years when I drove a tanker semi during the gas crisis. Well, even though the gas was free, it was a real eye opener. Even more so for hand cranking out electricity. If you have 5 kids, you might get to watch a 21 inch color TV in the dark. If they watched all the Schwartzenegger movies, they'd start to resemble the star. That's how he got his muscles...remember Conan the Destroyer at the turn stile? Well, he was powering the movie cameras. The stage lighting was all kerosene...it used to be brighter than it is today. Watch any old Western for the proof. ;-) Oops, wrong era...try pitch torches. Depending on where you live, the local street gang or baseball team will be drying your clothes. [maybe both sides...er...both sides of the team, or one side of your clothes?] A one meter square solar panel could probably wrestle me to the ground. I don't think I'm a 100 watt person, at least, not for very long. Comparativly, making CS is extremely low energy. ken At 06:17 AM 12/13/01 +0600, you wrote: Ken, There is so much room in our world for appropriate technology and you are taking this thread in a fascinsting direction. Another highly simple solution that ocurrs to me is to actually peddle the bicycle that goes along with the generator, since not everybody has the wind to operate a windmill. If one attachs the bike chain to a flywheel, placing the generator on the other side of this, then a 12 volt car battery can be charged. This car battery has many options for what it can power, including fluorescent lights, a CS generator, etc. and so forth. The benefit of getting the heart pumping on the bike may be among the best of all. Reid Ode Coyote wrote, An alternator requires an outside source of power for the field windings [a battery]. My bike gen [25+ yrs old] uses no battery and has perm magnets to supply the field. [magneto?] Outputs a DC signal. The faster you pedal, the brighter the light. No pedaling..no light. Maybe this has changed in modern times. One cool thing to try is to use a bike generator attached to the same rotational force as an alternator to supply the field current for a larger alternator on a wind mill so when the windmill isn't getting much wind, the field voltage drops and the alternator outputs less power. If the wind isn't blowing at all, there's no drain on a battery supplying field current to an alternator that isn't spinning. When the wind picks up, the field increases, the alternator provides more resistance while generating more power, acting like a governer. A zener diode [from an old Brit motorcycle] in the battery case does voltage regulation and helps keep batteries warm. Ken -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: concentrated CS and 'aglomeration'
## Somehow my name got attached to something I didn't write. But, hydroxide or not, salt or not...at 10 to 30 PPM, you'd drown long before you get anything like a toxic dose. At a 94% elimination rate per 48 hrs, you'd drown for years before you'd get argryia. [note below that ingest per day might need to be changed to retain over all to get that total load of 3 grams...so 94x300? Or is that 6x 300 litres?] Note also that the 94% elimination rate was for an inhaled or ingested by mouth dose of silver 'dust' eliminated via the feces. It has been postulated that the blue bloods got that name because they ate off silver a lot and turned blue. It seems they ate their dinnerware for desert. A teaspoon a day keeps the bloodletter away? The requirement is very much higher than could possibly gained by taking normal strength CS, Roger. To become blue you would need to ingest about 3 grams of silver per day, according to Alexander G. Schauss, Ph.D. Director, Life Sciences Division John Hopkins University. A litre of 10 ppm CS contains 10 milligrams of silver, therefore one would need to ingest 300 litres per day to reach this point. This is quite a bit higher than some of the references I have seen, but even the most conservative estimate has one drinking tens of litres per day. Ivan. At 08:00 AM 12/13/01 +0600, you wrote: Ken, I never stopped to think that the silver may be the hydroxide, evedince that my understanding of chemistry is limited. (Sometimes I stop and think and sometimes I just stop.) Can you fill me in on how it is that the hydroxide is a salt? Does anybody else have an answer? I feel sure that you're correct that the reason this is not harmful to us CS lovers in the long run is that 10ppm is extremely dilute. Of course this begs a question about assertions here that it's not a problem to ingest ionic silver at the really high concentrations. If this sort of CS is practically unattainable without the salts then responsible people should talk about some kind of an upper ppm limit for ingesting. On the other hand finding that number may be difficult. Also, back to my limited chemistry, I would like to know why it is that one would have to isolate one element in a simple compound as the culprit in a health problem. For example with silver nitrate why does the problem have to be either the silver or the nitrate. I think the problem is probably the compound. Another example: it's been stated here that gold chloride is highly toxic, yet gold metal is beneficial and chlorine is a lot less toxic. Salaam, Reid Ode Coyote wrote: Jason, Thanks for the reference material. The conditions seem to be pretty extreme - not many of us are going to be using 1500 PPM solution of silver salts of any kind as drinking water. Nevertheless it raises an interesting matter. Most of the home made CS has the silver in the form of a silver salt - namely silver hydroxide, more so than actual colloid. So is it only the low concentration and/or dosage that prevents poisoning? It has been stated previously on this list that in the case of silver nitrate, nitrate is the actual culprit. But acetate is from vinegar, so it seems safe to assume that in the case of silver acetate, only the silver could be to blame. Is the picture more complicated than this - meaning the stuff exists in the body in part as undissociated complex that acts differently to either ionic species? regards, Kevin Nolan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: concentrated CS and 'agglomeration'
Can you get any color CS without a TE? I haven't found it yet. I believe that having a color requires a particle and a particles are what makes a TE visible. If the TE is weak and the color is ,say, pale yellow... That would indicate to me that the majority of the particles are fairly largish. But getting a pale yellow with a strong TE would indicate that the minority of particles are that of the yellow color producing size and the majority are of the smaller colorless variety. Something i noticed the other day.. A gallon of 25 +/- PPM crystal clear CS that's returned to the milk jug the distilled water came out of is significantly darker than an identical jug of distilled water. ...some sort of refraction effect i suppose. Humm, I wonder if my 300PPM tap water does the same? Ken At 08:12 AM 12/13/01 +0600, you wrote: Ken, You alchemist you! Something you said about black, purple and yellow got me thinking, and now I'm going to use my 'gone off' gray, concentrated, once-upon-a-time CS to saturate an earthenware water purifier. Then we'll do the microbiological challenge on this candle. After all, when we saturate the candles with concentrated ionic CS, an electron is gained when this purifier dries. Or there is similar chemistry, the point being that silver cannot exist in our purifiers in the ionic form. Therefore I would imagine it makes sense that gray silver solution, with no TE, could be used in our purifiers. Thanks! Reid Ode Coyote said: Making several batches in the same location while tickling the edges of stable concenrations. LVDC Current controlled and mechanically stirred. One batch goes black. ..dilute to a purple appearance. Too much current for the electrode area and hydration rate. [silver oxide crystals? ...maybe not] One batch goes yellow. Room temperature too cool...batch cooled off too fast. [If black crystals are silver oxides...why are yellow ones not some form of oxide?] Theory Agglomeration of silver ions to colloids is similar to any saturated solution. Warm water holds more material in solution before it is saturated. Cooler water holds less. Hydration isolates ions from each other in groups with water molecules so they tend to form smaller crystals when they drop out of solution as the saturation point, dependant on temperature, drops. As a crystal forms and drops out, more ions can take the space 'between' water molecules. If ions are made and drop out faster than the water molecules can isolate them, they form larger crystals. Dropping the water temperature too fast allows larger crystals to form. Making ions faster than the water molecules can isolate them allows larger crystals to form. Temperature shifts in storage [12 hours in winter to 3-4 months from summer to winter] have repeatedly turned more concentrated batches than any other thing. Other things such as light have made no perceivable difference. All other things being equal... I get more concentrated colorless batches going to yellow when using cool water, when allowing warm water to cool too far too fast and using water that's too hot. [Brownian collisions?] Batches going other colors follow the same pattern. The edge of stability seems to be around 17PPM ionic in 100 deg F water [as measured with meter]. Colloidal [as seen by TE] content varies. I presume that a stable high concentration CS will have little ionic content [10 or 12 PPM in room temp water] and a very strong TE. How to achieve that with total repeatability...??? I believe, control temperature shifts and ion production/hydration rates very closely. or HVAC/DC electrosputering? ken -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSInnovative techniques ID 1000's of new Bacteria
Dear List.. this is from Dr. Mercola's news letter One gram of soil -- the weight of a little packet of low-calorie sweetener -- can contain as many as 10,000 species unknown to science, says Dr. Handelsman, a professor of plant pathology at the University of Wisconsin. For more than a decade, Dr. Handelsman had tantalizing glimpses of an elusive microscopic world she could not enter. When she put samples of soil under the microscope, she saw countless species of organisms she couldn't identify. But efforts to isolate and grow these microbes in the lab failed, and she couldn't learn much about them. Except for one thing: Genetic and statistical analyses revealed that these unknown organisms must make up 99.9% of all the microbes in the soil. Now, for the first time, she and her colleagues, along with several other research groups working independently, are learning to extract the DNA of these mysterious creatures and clone it. They are finding that the microbes differ so profoundly from known bacteria that they could represent entirely new kingdoms of life -- as different from other bacteria as animals are from plants. That means that the proteins produced by these creatures could have properties unlike any other such substances known. Most current antibiotics come from microbes in the soil. They include streptomycin, the first treatment for tuberculosis, and vancomycin, currently the drug of last resort for the toughest infections. By now, however, conventional bacteria have been largely mined out: Most of their useful properties have already been exploited. Researchers say that studies of the palette of novel biological agents Handelsman and others are discovering could lead to a new wave of medicines, anticancer drugs, insecticides and industrial enzymes, many radically different from those already in use. The research builds on earlier studies of exotic microbes that live in boiling pools in Yellowstone National Park, at steaming volcanic vents on the sea floor, and in other forbidding locales. These so-called extremophiles -- named for their affinity for extreme environments -- were crucial in the development of one of molecular biology's most useful tools, a method of extracting and studying DNA called polymerase chain reaction, or PCR. In a report in mid-November at the annual New Horizons in Science briefing in Tempe, Ariz., Handelsman said she and her colleagues at Wisconsin have already identified several new antibiotics from soil microbes, at least one of which is also proving to be a powerful pesticide. And in California, Edward F. DeLong and his colleagues at the Monterey Bay Aquarium have found a distinctive light-sensitive protein that could have applications in optical computers. They expect these to be only the first of many more such discoveries from a field of research known as metagenomics, or environmental genomics. Dazzling Variety The field has led, among other things, to a new view of biological diversity. The dazzling variety of tropical rain forests, it turns out, is dwarfed by the unseen diversity in the microbial world. To take one example, a single gram of sediment on the ocean floor contains 1 billion organisms, says one of the field's pioneers, biologist Norman R. Pace of the University of Colorado. Dig down about one-third of a mile to an even more forbidding environment, and the sediment still contains about 10 million microbes per gram. The microbes in that 500-meter-thick layer of ocean floor make up 10% to 20% of all the biological matter on earth, Pace says. They include uncounted numbers of species unknown to science. Even human intestines -- an environment most people consider pretty familiar -- are home to perhaps 10,000 kinds of microbes. I've been blown away by the diversity there, says Pace, whose work was recognized in October with a MacArthur Foundation Fellowship. Indeed, one of the surprises in the decoding of the human genome was that it contains more than 200 genes that come from bacteria. Microbes not only keep us alive; in some small part, we are made of them. Pace is looking at how these largely unknown microbes might play a role in Crohn's disease, an inflammation of the small intestine. He has found that the makeup of the mixed community of microbes in the intestines changes in people with the disease. A similar thing might happen with tuberculosis, Pace says, leading him to wonder whether some diseases might be caused not by a single dangerous microbe but by a change in the microbial community -- an ecological imbalance inside the human body. Handelsman and Michelle R. Rondon, formerly of the University of Wisconsin and now at Ohio State University, have done most of their work with soil obtained from a University of Wisconsin research station 15 minutes from their lab. They devised a technique for isolating long pieces of DNA from soil, something that other researchers had assured them could not be done. Because soil is full of
CSInnovative technology -- getting CS to the pathogen
A 78 year old friend of mine has a bad cold. She asked if that new stuff would help because she's been feeling lousy. I gave her a bottle of CS and suggested she do some nosedrops every half hour for 3-4 hours. Later she told me the CS was working pretty well -- no more cough, no more sneezes. HOWEVER -- she couldn't find her medicine dropper and decided to use her turkey baster instead. The baster wasn't airtight, so she had to wrap in a towel or become soaked. She was trying to balance baster, towel and bottle (to catch the run-off and not waste it) while lying down with head tipped well back. (Wish I'd seen that!) She was going out to play bridge and couldn't take the baster along for obvious reasons and got a bit behind on dosage. She's a rational old bird after all and is high-tailing it to town for a dropper first thing this morning. (Thought the list needed a smile. CS use isn't always hyper-technical!) JUDY DOWN MAINE Serenity is a blue heron on Maple Juice Cove --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.306 / Virus Database: 166 - Release Date: 12/04/2001 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: concentrated CS and 'aglomeration'
Reid Harvey wrote: Ken, Also, back to my limited chemistry, I would like to know why it is that one would have to isolate one element in a simple compound as the culprit in a health problem. For example with silver nitrate why does the problem have to be either the silver or the nitrate. I think the problem is probably the compound. Another example: it's been stated here that gold chloride is highly toxic, yet gold metal is beneficial and chlorine is a lot less toxic. You have a good point here, although gold chloride is not a good example since chlorine is deadly toxic.A good example would be hydrogen cyanide, HCN, which is deadly toxic, yet hydrogen, carbon and nitrogen alone are totally harmless. Marshall -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CShard science on homozon
I am 50 miles from the manuf. plant. in Greenville , TN. It's called Ecoquest 423-638-7246 www.EcoQuestIntl.com Now they call it Living Air. Now where did I get Alpine ? hm. It uses 4 screens. From: Tel Tofflemire telt...@home.com Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CShard science on homozon Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:09:11 -0700 I have 2 of them, the Alpine ozone x15 works well for mold, and knock down dust. Also motels use them for removing smoke smell, or any oder.. The draw back, is the co is out of business, and the glass plate inside will crack and no longer work after a couple yrs of use..If you know where I can find parts let me know, only one of mine is working. now again. Tel Tofflemire Phoenix, AZ TJ Garland wrote: Does onyone have any experience with the Alpine ozone and ion air cleaners.. They apparently use Tesla Tech. and claim that they send their radio waves through walls to kill bugs inc. mites. Rife technology? I am considering buying one for molds in the basement. Thanks. _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: CShard science on homozon
Thank You so much TJ Garland for the information, I used my Alpine Ozone for a personal experiment, (I am not dead yet) I placed the Ozone above my model 777 silver generator while I was making CS, I use a fish pump and I let it suck ozone charged air into my CSit really had a nice sparkle to it and it tasted great and I had it set for 15 ppm, and it tested 20ppm with a hanna tester. I know the settings are only aprox, and the Hanna tester is only ballpark, but this seems like away to get ozone into the cs at a small amount in a short time and very easy method...Useing the fish pump and aerator I have made perfectly clear cs at 30ppm, and it stays clear for several weeks, by then its all gone. (used up) I haven't stored it longer than 3 or 4 weeks yet to see if it stays clear, I use clear glass to make it in and have stored it in clear fruit jars, I didn't see nay difference in color, even if it is in the sunlight.. I gave James Allison a pt of my clear 28ppm cs so he could send in a sample to ole Bob no word yet? Tel Tofflemire Phoeniz,AZ TJ Garland wrote: I am 50 miles from the manuf. plant. in Greenville , TN. It's called Ecoquest 423-638-7246 www.EcoQuestIntl.com Now they call it Living Air. Now where did I get Alpine ? hm. It uses 4 screens. From: Tel Tofflemire telt...@home.com Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CShard science on homozon Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:09:11 -0700 I have 2 of them, the Alpine ozone x15 works well for mold, and knock down dust. Also motels use them for removing smoke smell, or any oder.. The draw back, is the co is out of business, and the glass plate inside will crack and no longer work after a couple yrs of use..If you know where I can find parts let me know, only one of mine is working. now again. Tel Tofflemire Phoenix, AZ TJ Garland wrote: Does onyone have any experience with the Alpine ozone and ion air cleaners.. They apparently use Tesla Tech. and claim that they send their radio waves through walls to kill bugs inc. mites. Rife technology? I am considering buying one for molds in the basement. Thanks. _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: CSSilver Article / silver proteins/ silver compounds
The Article by James South, an interview with Jay Kimball, is point and case for my arguement that silver protein products should be seriously questioned rather than blindly accepted. This article, upon first glance, looks very impressive. However, I believe Mr Kimball ( who is currently still in jail, I believe )purposefully spreads disinformation about ionic silver. Not only that, but at least ONE marketing company has had formal action taken against them from claiming that Kimball's product was an approved OTC drug for oral use - the particular product at one time was approved for OTC use as a nasal spray only - and yet was being labelled as an OTC drug acceptable for oral use. Kimball has extremely poor judgement and serves his own ego - while claiming to be interested in public health. Yet close examination of the court case against him proves that his thinking isn't very clear. I'm surprised that his group was shocked when the judge simply shut him up and put him behind bars ( for an issue not related to colloidal silver ). The letter of the law cannot be manipulated, neither can the truth. Kimball attempts and fails to do both, but has gathered quite extensive support for his efforts. I would love to be able to provide more information about protein complexes, stabilizers, and compounds, but frankly there are very few trustworthy sources out there. Most serious researchers either drop the subject early on in studies, or are currently trying new methods of production. The ones that are trying new methods aren't doing much talking, because their end goal is to secure patents. I spoke with Natural-Immunogenics briefly on the subject - I agree with their prevalant opinion based on tests conducted with one MSP product, that the silver proteins aren't nearly as effective as isolated silver products. There is NO reason to think that silver proteins won't immediately begin to build up in the body upon ingestion in some cases. At one teaspoon of say a 150 ppm product, it might take extensive time to develop symptoms. Studies that people like Kindall have done, pumping extreme amounts of proteins in the body for short periods of time, to prove that products are safe, are at best negligent, since 14 days is no where near enough time to make any reasonable determination of anything without measuring excretion of silver ( and still, 14 days... ). Of course, now there are NO silver products that can be marketed as an OTC drug - not even the nasal products. I don't want to discourage your pursuits, Reid... Not at all. Like I mentioned earlier, I cannot imagine not being able to create a concentrated silver product that uses a protein stablizer that does not create potentially toxic silver compounds. The only possible reason I can imagine wanting to do so is your reason! Just be careful what you believe from these marketing companies! From: Theodore Corbett miesenbac...@yahoo.com Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSSilver Article Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:06:45 -0800 (PST) Found this article on the net which might be of some interest. The URL is; http://smart-drugs.net/ias-bulletins.htm Click on #19 Silver __ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
CSCurrent Meter
Morning Bob, Terry, and the list, Often I find myself using my multi-meter to monitor CS process. So I decided to add a permanent current meter to the generator. Likely I will use a panel meter, edge type. A digital meter would be nice and it could have multiple scales but one scale should be all I need. I think the target current needs to be from 10 to 15 or 20 ma. Question is, what full scale range should the meter be.Either 25 or 50 ma should be ok. Typically, I will be working with 52 VDC and about 60 ounces. I use CS for the conductivity starter. Any suggestions? Wayne -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe: concentrated CS and 'aglomeration'
Reid Harvey, Ode Coyote wrote: Ken, I never stopped to think that the silver may be the hydroxide, evedince that my understanding of chemistry is limited. (Sometimes I stop and think and sometimes I just stop.) Can you fill me in on how it is that the hydroxide is a salt? Silver hydroxide would not be a salt, but rather a base. IE sodium hydroxide is lye. Marshall Technically speaking, that is true. But silver hydroxide is a very weak base, and in fact it's pH is lower than many 'genuine' salts. The point is, it exists in solution as dissociated ions - not as colloidal silver particles. Owing to claims made on the list that nitrate ion was the main problem with silver nitrate (even though argyria is a deposited silver condition), the question arises as to what species or combination of species potentially does the damage, and under what conditions. I think there is general agreement that unrealistically massive doses are required before home brew 'CS' would be a problem. But I got the impression that silver nitrate could cause trouble at much lower relative dosage - ie it's not just a matter of silver ion dosage alone. Nitrate is a known carcinogen (less so than nitrite), and an irritant at high enough concentration. But is argyria solely due to the high silver dosage possible with silver nitrate (very high solubility), or is there some kind of synergy effect as well? Anything taken to excess will cause trouble. The gist is this - do certain anions, innocuous of themselves (eg, acetate, citrate) somehow significantly and selectively 'promote' toxicity of silver ion relative to say, silver hydroxide at the same concentration? Maybe there is simply no definitive data on that, but if there is it would be a good thing to know. regards, Kevin Nolan
Re: CSRe: concentrated CS and 'agglomeration'
Greetings, Regarding the repeated point that the interests of the poor must be paramount in the pursuit of appropriate silver colloids for Bangladesh or elsewhere, I keep coming back to this question: what could be cheaper than a couple of rods of pure silver and three rechargeable nine-volt batteries? Poor people could make their own semi-distilled water just be running steam off a smooth metal pan into a glass jar.There would be no distribution costs -- always a big factor -- as with prepared products such as Microdyn, about which I know nothing other than that knowing nothing I do NOT want to mess with it. I know a considerable amount about the lives of poor people, and will not go into that other than to say I have seen for extended periods a good number of very poor folks in SE Asia, and see no reason that these folks, if they so desire, could not manage to get three nine-volt batteries and a cheap solar battery-charger -- we are talking about a few bucks if distributed at wholesale cost -- and make all the CS they want. If we are concerned about poor folks, I fail to see much point in going on and on about the protein stablilized CS. I simply do not believe this would represent a cost savings. Having said all that, God bless anyone such as Reid who is out there in the trenches.If my statements above are wrong, I would be willing to learn the reasons.Seems to me, though, that the simplest posible home-brew CS setup would work for just about anyone who has at least a shack, a fireplace, and some sunshine.As for refugees who lack even those things, well, then of course other solutions would be necessary. I hope the tone of this message is not antagonistic.I do not intend it to be. Best, JBB Reid Harvey wrote: Jason, Forgive me as I tread ever so lightly on thin ice. I think that when you assert that there has never been a reason to study the rarer silver proteins this appears to be from the perspective of the establishment medicine folks who revile CS, low cost and all this stand for. Don't get me wrong, I know you approach this issue conscientiously, but it all begs the question, what if the planners had done things a little differently? Now that I feel I have a better idea of what's going on with the protein stailizer, that it's a long chain molecule, organic deflocculent, I can imagine that the little 15 ml. bottle of Microdyn may contain perhaps 0.5% silver acetate, if indeed this is the protein used (a big 'if'). That comes to 0.075ml., a very minute amount of silver acetate. Bear in mind that I am not arguing with you, appreciative of your raising the important issues of safety. After all, somebody has got to raise these issues. I think it's revealing that the manufactures' label you quoted placed silver acetate safety above that of the nitrate. And I think it's important to consider cost benefit when providing health remedies to the poor. For example, is it worse to get dengue fever because you didn't take diluted, concentrated CS, or is it worse to suffer the consequence of a minute amount of silver acetate? I also think that we on the silver list, God love us, bend over backwards to show that there are no negative effects whatsoever to the CS we know and love. When you consider all the questionable stuff, chemicals and garbage that we injest daily in our food, all the cancers that result, ah, Are we not guilty of scrupulosity, straining off a knat but gulpng down a camel. Perhaps you can tell me why it is that the protein deflocculent must be a silver compound, since I don't understand this. But please understand I am aspiring to seek the interest of the poor who have no access to remedies. In seeking to make a low cost water purifier I am simply seeing similar possibilities with respect to health remedies in general. Once you strip away the profit motive, pure and simple, it is surprising to see that there are many wonderful possibilities. Regards, Reid Jason wrote: Reid: I would say that making an assumption they ARE safe is treading on dangerous territory without knowing far more about the actual formulation. I don't know that any studies on rarer silver proteins ( whatever they may be ) have been done, because there has never been a reason to. The only people I've ever seen claiming that such products are safe ( not to mention more effective than isolated silver )are the people selling them. I haven't been real interested in protein study since I'm more interested in smaller particles than heavy concentration. I can't imagine NOT being able to create a protein stabilizer that does not result produce silver compounds, although I certainly don't have the background to do so. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to:
CSsmart-drugs
Hi Ya'all, The URL www.smart-drugs.net is well worth printing out ALL 15 pages of it. Read it carefully as it talks very much about Ag(e) or as we note Ag-. To me is says make the CS with the weakest T.E. possible for a given concentration. Note that some levels the author talks about are 0.01 PPM In my mind it settles the ionic vs particle question that has been floating around the list for months. I go for ionic CS !! I don't know who put this on the list but I thank you for it. Ole Bob -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: concentrated CS and 'aglomeration'
From: Kevin Nolan ken...@optusnet.com.au But is argyria solely due to the high silver dosage possible with silver nitrate (very high solubility), or is there some kind of synergy effect as well? regards, Kevin Nolan Kevin: The slate blue colour of argyria is not entirely due as one might suspect, to the deposition of metallic silver (Petering, 1976), but largely to an increased deposition of melanin. Apparently, the issue of Argyria ( the two types ), is not as simple as it may first appear. Silver, in any form, when it reaches a certain theoretical concentration in the body is a toxic substance. Like most toxic substances, the effects will only last while the substance is active in the body. The question is: When and why does silver accumulate in the body, and when and why does it not? The body knows, and responds, to a toxic substance when detected in the body. This is a toxic response... It happens every time one eats garlic, for instance. The body moves to remove the substance as quickly as possible. This is a system-wide, metabolic response of the body. This response is markedly different than the normal elimination responses in the body. First, I believe that with the colloidal silver that most use, the body does NOT detect the silver as toxic. I don't believe the concentration is great enough, even at say a liter per day. I believe that isolated silver, whether in ion form or in colloidal particle form, is not deposited nor accumulated in organs or skin tissue, whether a toxic response is experienced or not. I believe that some, if not many, silver salts and proteins DO deposit silver in the tissue, because the body does not handle these substances in the same manner as it does water. This is the key concept. What is the body trying to do with these salts and proteins? I can induce a toxic reaction to isolated silver through heavy lung use. If the silver accumulated in the organs, then the symptoms would continue as documented in many materia medicas. However, the symptoms are temporary, corresponding very closely with the conclusions drawn in Roger Altman's informal study on silver elimination. However, I believe that even a teaspoon of silver protein/salts can easily cause a toxic reaction in the body. I believe this based upon the documented cases of Argyria from the old school medical documents and the EPA listed studies. When a toxic reaction occurs to these substances, silver begins to accumulate in tissues. Obviously, this doesn't ( or should say 'didn't ) occur in every case, or there would be thousands of more documented cases of Argyria back then. Evidently, Argyria ( to the point where it was noticed and recorded ) only occured in a small percentage of the people using silver-based products. These people may have accumulated silver more quickly through vitamin E and Selenium deficiencies. There may be other factors involved as well. The whole idea here: One wants the silver product to be treated exactly like water, not like a food substance or a solid. That is exactly what you get with a low PPM, fine particle/ionic isolated silver. Luckily, there is every indication that silver oxide and silver chloride do not deposit silver into tissues. Keep in mind: just because silver comes in CONTACT with tissues, does not mean it will be DEPOSITED in tissues. It certainly APPEARS as if the protein/salt combination CAUSES silver to be deposited in tissues. Undoubtedly, there is a lot we don't know. We don't know it, probably because nobody does! Based on the information provided by Ken ( the lung study of metallic silver ), it is becoming clearer that the issue of permanent silver toxicity is one of compounds and not silver itself. However, it is good to keep in mind that it IS the silver that ultimately is responsible for the effects. _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSH2O2 and CS revisited with a testimonial
Hi all, I think I've had just about all I can stand of silver compounds, salts, and stablizers! Ole' Bob always talks about the cloud that appears when adding H2O2 to colloidal silver. I always shrugged it off, not paying too much attention - never would I see any such cloud when I added H2O2 to my silver. I would notice a very slight increase in the tyndall effect. It always remained crystal clear from the start, there was never any fallout, and all in all, the CS would remain stable long after the H2O2 fully decomposed. Then, last week, I used a glass container that had a small amount of silver plated on the bottom. I was in a rush, and didn't scrub down the glass before use. I was making a batch to be used specifically WITH hydrogen peroxide. When I added the H2O2... What do you know? There was that cloud. The CS became very turbid, with the solid tyndall effect that has often been described. It wasn't until I carefully examined the glass, noticing the small amount of silver plated, that I realized what was going on. For many applications, I am very, very careful to make a highly ionic brew. When doing so, I KNOW that I am also creating silver particles on the smaller end of the size scale. I do so by carefully cleaning everything I use, and never touching or removing the silver rods, and not over-running my batches. Therefore, when using H2O2 in the past, the reaction with the silver particles is not as prevalant. I get a clean product that I have never had a problem with. This particular case, however, was a small emergency. I had been working with someone on a mouth infection - one that really required surgery, but the means were not available. This was initially several months previously, and I did not use colloidal silver. I used healing clay packed in the mouth. I didn't use silver because the silver must reach the site of the infection, and I was not certain that it would do so with this infection. Healing clay has no such restrictions, it does not need to come into contact with the infection. The problem is, the instructions have to be followed. Pain relief is often so quick, that one stops. In fact, having a clay pack inside the mouth is an uncomfortable experience. In this case, the individual experienced rapid pain relief, and significant reduction in swelling/inflammation. The infection was primarily caused by wisdom teeth that had not grown in fully. The surface infection was removed upon first treatment, and the individual decided not to continue. A few months down the road ( here we are ), the condition had resurfaced. Now, however, the individual had waited too long. The infection had spread to the ear and possibly even the sinuses, complete with swollen lymph nodes. Healing clay's ability to eliminate infections that are within the body does have limits. Had the person continued with clay at the onset of the pain once more, the condition again would have been arrested. However, too much time had passed with neglect. The treatment was started with healing clay in the mouth, with little tolerance. However, I insisited that we continue, until the clay pulled enough of the infection out to induce drainage ( the area will begin to bleed ). When an infection is this deep, the process is painful. Having accomplished this, it became evident that I wasn't going to be able to get enough clay in the mouth to do enough good, nor was it being tolerated well enough to continue the length of time needed for a desired effect. Careful examination revealed an abcess, now partially drained. Thus, I switched tactics. I used the H2O2 silver formulation at a relatively heavy strength: 2 drops of 35% H2O2 to eight ounces of colloidal silver. I have no idea how the colloidal silver reached the entire infection. There is no doubt, however, that it did, and within seconds. I had the individual lay on the side, and hold this solution in the mouth for as long as possible. The first time, tolerance was limited to about 1.5 minutes. The CS was then swallowed ( if one holds this formulation in your mouth for a long period of time, it is likely that one won't experience the H2O2 effect in the stomach ). The individual described a severe burning sensation from the ear straight down to the infected gums. This sensation ( which alarmed the individual, but was not unexpected ) lasted for about 20 minutes, then subsided. As it subsided, so did all the raw pain from the infection. This process was repeated three times in a row, over a duration of about two hours. The burning sensation never occured after the first time. 48 hours later, with occasional use, the infection appeared to be completely eliminated with no inflammed tissues, and the swelling of the lymph nodes was gone. Of course, this is not a permanent solution to the root problem of those wisdom teeth. However, the individual now knows
Re: CSRe: concentrated CS and 'aglomeration'
Not such a good example, either. The problem is the cyano anion: CN-, which is deadly whether as HCN, NaCN, KCN etc. The only 'synergy' effect I can see here is the solubility and hence dosage available between one cyanide compound and another. The cation per se is of little consequence, unless toxic in it's own right (eg, mercury). Kevin Nolan - Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@execonn.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:20 AM Subject: Re: CSRe: concentrated CS and 'aglomeration' Reid Harvey wrote: Ken, Also, back to my limited chemistry, I would like to know why it is that one would have to isolate one element in a simple compound as the culprit in a health problem. For example with silver nitrate why does the problem have to be either the silver or the nitrate. I think the problem is probably the compound. Another example: it's been stated here that gold chloride is highly toxic, yet gold metal is beneficial and chlorine is a lot less toxic. You have a good point here, although gold chloride is not a good example since chlorine is deadly toxic.A good example would be hydrogen cyanide, HCN, which is deadly toxic, yet hydrogen, carbon and nitrogen alone are totally harmless. Marshall -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: Silver Article / silver proteins/ silver compounds
Reid: When referring to the reason I meant to help the poor, and specifically a highly concentrated colloidal silver meant to use orally ( not with your water purification! ), ie. the only good reason I can think of to create a highly concentrated colloidal silver meant for use in the body is to help people who would have no access to it otherwise. To find out more about these stabilizers, I think one would have to find to find an organic chemist that has experience in a related field. Unfortunately, although I have written a few, one doesn't see them sitting around. In this age of drugs, it appears that there is quite the demand. I really haven't pursued the issue any farther than already covered. Of course, I would be interested to know anything else discovered! From: Reid Harvey ceram...@bol-online.com Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com To: silver list silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: CSRe: Silver Article / silver proteins/ silver compounds Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:45:23 +0600 Jason, I would also imagine that information on protein stabilizers is scarce, but it's good to have a bit of confidence there shold be some that are non-toxic. Where do you look for such infomation? Also, you have said, 'the only possible reason I can imagine wanting to do so (i.e. make concnentrated CS) is your reason! I'm unclear on the reason you're citing. Primarily we use concentrated CS for saturation of earthenware water purifiers. An outgrowth of this rationale is what appears to be the very real possibility of turning concentrated CS into an affordable health remedy for the poor. The U.N. recently came up with something like $30 million to provide drug companies with an incentive to research prophylaxes and cures for the new, virulent forms of malaria. The incentive is necessary because the beneficiaries are primarily poor Africans, who haven't got enough money to be of interest to the drug companies. I would imagine that on a similar basis some donor could be interested in the researching of non-toxic protein stabilizers for concentrated CS. But then again, it appears there is a bit of evidence that CS also works against the malarial parasite. Reid _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: concentrated CS and 'aglomeration'
Greetings All..
since my last update about my arthritisI have severely relapsedI am
personally 99% sure that what I am dealing with is none other than leaky gut
syndrome...I experience alergic-like reactions whenever I eat..the
main symptom besides the arthritis is watery eyes.this is just about to
drive me nuts!!!My arthritis pain comes and goesand thus far is
still avoiding my hands{Thank God}..My worst spot is my
shoulders.the attacks jump around...from place to place...right now
it is very very bad in my left shoulder..Feels like it has eate all the
way through the soft tissues...and is on raw boneI had no choice but
to take vioxx...nothing else I know of will take the edge off of the
pain.I'm about to go nuts from all of this stuffif anyone can
offer any advice.it would be much appreciated..I'm still hell bent
against letting the medical proffesion do its thing...here's what
I'm doing right nowI'm on the water cure..have been for a long
time..since I weigh about 200.give or take.I'm drinking about
100 ounces.I'm also on MSM6000 mg per day..b-12..6000 mcg per
day...I just started liquid alo vera.3 ounces per dayand
also just started PDA.these last two supplements were given by the
advice of my local health food store guru.I've also stopped
swallowing CS..I am doing the holding it in my mouth for 4 minute
thingI'm afraid of further damaging my flora
If I fast for 2 or 3 days..the pain almost tottally
disappears..but I gotsta eat.other than the hunger...I feel
great while doing thisperhaps a marathon fast is in order??..I
don't know if I can stand doing that or not..Many thanks to those of you
who have offered help in the past.and many thanks in advance for what I
know will be good advice in the future.Robb
_
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CSMy Arthritis...Still
Greetings All..
since my last update about my arthritisI have severely relapsedI am
personally 99% sure that what I am dealing with is none other than leaky gut
syndrome...I experience alergic-like reactions whenever I eat..the
main symptom besides the arthritis is watery eyes.this is just about to
drive me nuts!!!My arthritis pain comes and goesand thus far is
still avoiding my hands{Thank God}..My worst spot is my
shoulders.the attacks jump around...from place to place...right now
it is very very bad in my left shoulder..Feels like it has eate all the
way through the soft tissues...and is on raw boneI had no choice but
to take vioxx...nothing else I know of will take the edge off of the
pain.I'm about to go nuts from all of this stuffif anyone can
offer any advice.it would be much appreciated..I'm still hell bent
against letting the medical proffesion do its thing...here's what
I'm doing right nowI'm on the water cure..have been for a long
time..since I weigh about 200.give or take.I'm drinking about
100 ounces.I'm also on MSM6000 mg per day..b-12..6000 mcg per
day...I just started liquid alo vera.3 ounces per dayand
also just started PDA.these last two supplements were given by the
advice of my local health food store guru.I've also stopped
swallowing CS..I am doing the holding it in my mouth for 4 minute
thingI'm afraid of further damaging my flora
If I fast for 2 or 3 days..the pain almost tottally
disappears..but I gotsta eat.other than the hunger...I feel
great while doing thisperhaps a marathon fast is in order??..I
don't know if I can stand doing that or not..Many thanks to those of you
who have offered help in the past.and many thanks in advance for what I
know will be good advice in the future.Robb
_
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silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com
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Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html
List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: concentrated CS and 'agglomeration'
Here is a weird fact I just read in an interesting book about vision: a specially made box created by a physicist is filled with light. There is nothing in the box; the sides are, from what I gather, totally reflective. If you look into the box, you see darkness, although it is filled with light.This is because you can not see light, only the reflection of light from objects. If this is true (see Jabob Lieberman TAke Off Your Glasses and See) then the idea that only particles produce color might be correct. However, isn't an ion a thing? It is a bit of an atom, right? Therefore it may be that ions CAN reflect light. I am not a physicist and do not know. JBB Ode Coyote wrote: Can you get any color CS without a TE? I haven't found it yet. I believe that having a color requires a particle and a particles are what makes a TE visible. If the TE is weak and the color is ,say, pale yellow... That would indicate to me that the majority of the particles are fairly largish. But getting a pale yellow with a strong TE would indicate that the minority of particles are that of the yellow color producing size and the majority are of the smaller colorless variety. Something i noticed the other day.. A gallon of 25 +/- PPM crystal clear CS that's returned to the milk jug the distilled water came out of is significantly darker than an identical jug of distilled water. ...some sort of refraction effect i suppose. Humm, I wonder if my 300PPM tap water does the same? Ken At 08:12 AM 12/13/01 +0600, you wrote: Ken, You alchemist you! Something you said about black, purple and yellow got me thinking, and now I'm going to use my 'gone off' gray, concentrated, once-upon-a-time CS to saturate an earthenware water purifier. Then we'll do the microbiological challenge on this candle. After all, when we saturate the candles with concentrated ionic CS, an electron is gained when this purifier dries. Or there is similar chemistry, the point being that silver cannot exist in our purifiers in the ionic form. Therefore I would imagine it makes sense that gray silver solution, with no TE, could be used in our purifiers. Thanks! Reid Ode Coyote said: Making several batches in the same location while tickling the edges of stable concenrations. LVDC Current controlled and mechanically stirred. One batch goes black. ..dilute to a purple appearance. Too much current for the electrode area and hydration rate. [silver oxide crystals? ...maybe not] One batch goes yellow. Room temperature too cool...batch cooled off too fast. [If black crystals are silver oxides...why are yellow ones not some form of oxide?] Theory Agglomeration of silver ions to colloids is similar to any saturated solution. Warm water holds more material in solution before it is saturated. Cooler water holds less. Hydration isolates ions from each other in groups with water molecules so they tend to form smaller crystals when they drop out of solution as the saturation point, dependant on temperature, drops. As a crystal forms and drops out, more ions can take the space 'between' water molecules. If ions are made and drop out faster than the water molecules can isolate them, they form larger crystals. Dropping the water temperature too fast allows larger crystals to form. Making ions faster than the water molecules can isolate them allows larger crystals to form. Temperature shifts in storage [12 hours in winter to 3-4 months from summer to winter] have repeatedly turned more concentrated batches than any other thing. Other things such as light have made no perceivable difference. All other things being equal... I get more concentrated colorless batches going to yellow when using cool water, when allowing warm water to cool too far too fast and using water that's too hot. [Brownian collisions?] Batches going other colors follow the same pattern. The edge of stability seems to be around 17PPM ionic in 100 deg F water [as measured with meter]. Colloidal [as seen by TE] content varies. I presume that a stable high concentration CS will have little ionic content [10 or 12 PPM in room temp water] and a very strong TE. How to achieve that with total repeatability...??? I believe, control temperature shifts and ion production/hydration rates very closely. or HVAC/DC electrosputering? ken -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSRe: concentrated CS and 'aglomeration'
R.e. bluebloods -- I have heard this anecdote many times. I have also heard that the popular glass harmonica, invented I think by Benjamin Franklin, or at least enjoyed by him, caused big problems because players got led poisioning by rubbing away at their crystal glasses! That is hard to imagine, but from what I read, it is true. Some people advise never to drink from crystalware.This seems pertinent when considering the possibility of argyria from silverware. It could well be true. JBB Ode Coyote wrote: ## Somehow my name got attached to something I didn't write. But, hydroxide or not, salt or not...at 10 to 30 PPM, you'd drown long before you get anything like a toxic dose. At a 94% elimination rate per 48 hrs, you'd drown for years before you'd get argryia. [note below that ingest per day might need to be changed to retain over all to get that total load of 3 grams...so 94x300? Or is that 6x 300 litres?] Note also that the 94% elimination rate was for an inhaled or ingested by mouth dose of silver 'dust' eliminated via the feces. It has been postulated that the blue bloods got that name because they ate off silver a lot and turned blue. It seems they ate their dinnerware for desert. A teaspoon a day keeps the bloodletter away? The requirement is very much higher than could possibly gained by taking normal strength CS, Roger. To become blue you would need to ingest about 3 grams of silver per day, according to Alexander G. Schauss, Ph.D. Director, Life Sciences Division John Hopkins University. A litre of 10 ppm CS contains 10 milligrams of silver, therefore one would need to ingest 300 litres per day to reach this point. This is quite a bit higher than some of the references I have seen, but even the most conservative estimate has one drinking tens of litres per day. Ivan. At 08:00 AM 12/13/01 +0600, you wrote: Ken, I never stopped to think that the silver may be the hydroxide, evedince that my understanding of chemistry is limited. (Sometimes I stop and think and sometimes I just stop.) Can you fill me in on how it is that the hydroxide is a salt? Does anybody else have an answer? I feel sure that you're correct that the reason this is not harmful to us CS lovers in the long run is that 10ppm is extremely dilute. Of course this begs a question about assertions here that it's not a problem to ingest ionic silver at the really high concentrations. If this sort of CS is practically unattainable without the salts then responsible people should talk about some kind of an upper ppm limit for ingesting. On the other hand finding that number may be difficult. Also, back to my limited chemistry, I would like to know why it is that one would have to isolate one element in a simple compound as the culprit in a health problem. For example with silver nitrate why does the problem have to be either the silver or the nitrate. I think the problem is probably the compound. Another example: it's been stated here that gold chloride is highly toxic, yet gold metal is beneficial and chlorine is a lot less toxic. Salaam, Reid Ode Coyote wrote: Jason, Thanks for the reference material. The conditions seem to be pretty extreme - not many of us are going to be using 1500 PPM solution of silver salts of any kind as drinking water. Nevertheless it raises an interesting matter. Most of the home made CS has the silver in the form of a silver salt - namely silver hydroxide, more so than actual colloid. So is it only the low concentration and/or dosage that prevents poisoning? It has been stated previously on this list that in the case of silver nitrate, nitrate is the actual culprit. But acetate is from vinegar, so it seems safe to assume that in the case of silver acetate, only the silver could be to blame. Is the picture more complicated than this - meaning the stuff exists in the body in part as undissociated complex that acts differently to either ionic species? regards, Kevin Nolan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe: concentrated CS and 'aglomeration'
Kevin, First off I should say that we produce concentrated CS using de-ionized water, of TDS less than 10. I am unclear as to just where the dissociated hydroxide ions are coming from. Reid Kevin Nolan wrote: Silver hydroxide would not be a salt, but rather a base. IE sodium hydroxide is lye. Marshall Technically speaking, that is true. But silver hydroxide is a very weak base, and in fact it's pH is lower than many 'genuine' salts. The point is, it exists in solution as dissociated ions - not as colloidal silver particles. Owing to claims made on the list that nitrate ion was the main problem with silver nitrate (even though argyria is a deposited silver condition), the question arises as to what species or combination of species potentially does the damage, and under what conditions. I think there is general agreement that unrealistically massive doses are required before home brew 'CS' would be a problem. But I got the impression that silver nitrate could cause trouble at much lower relative dosage - ie it's not just a matter of silver ion dosage alone. Nitrate is a known carcinogen (less so than nitrite), and an irritant at high enough concentration. But is argyria solely due to the high silver dosage possible with silver nitrate (very high solubility), or is there some kind of synergy effect as well? Anything taken to excess will cause trouble. The gist is this - do certain anions, innocuous of themselves (eg, acetate, citrate) somehow significantly and selectively 'promote' toxicity of silver ion relative to say, silver hydroxide at the same concentration? Maybe there is simply no definitive data on that, but if there is it would be a good thing to know. regards, Kevin Nolan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe: concentrated CS and 'aglomeration'
Ken, This is all very interesting, a new twist I haven't seen here before. So an indication of a majority of particles of small size is to be found where there is pale yellow with good TE. If this is a large majority I would imagine there would be an argument to suggest that this CS is no less beneficial than the 10ppm CS. In this scenario the fine particles would be penetrating where the large particles could not go, but the large particles would be beneficial at the outer surfaces, which also need CS. Reid Ode Coyote wrote: Can you get any color CS without a TE? I haven't found it yet. I believe that having a color requires a particle and a particles are what makes a TE visible. If the TE is weak and the color is ,say, pale yellow... That would indicate to me that the majority of the particles are fairly largish. But getting a pale yellow with a strong TE would indicate that the minority of particles are that of the yellow color producing size and the majority are of the smaller colorless variety. Something i noticed the other day.. A gallon of 25 +/- PPM crystal clear CS that's returned to the milk jug the distilled water came out of is significantly darker than an identical jug of distilled water. ...some sort of refraction effect i suppose. Humm, I wonder if my 300PPM tap water does the same? Ken -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
CSRe: Silver Article / silver proteins/ silver compounds
Jason, I would also imagine that information on protein stabilizers is scarce, but it's good to have a bit of confidence there shold be some that are non-toxic. Where do you look for such infomation? Also, you have said, 'the only possible reason I can imagine wanting to do so (i.e. make concnentrated CS) is your reason! I'm unclear on the reason you're citing. Primarily we use concentrated CS for saturation of earthenware water purifiers. An outgrowth of this rationale is what appears to be the very real possibility of turning concentrated CS into an affordable health remedy for the poor. The U.N. recently came up with something like $30 million to provide drug companies with an incentive to research prophylaxes and cures for the new, virulent forms of malaria. The incentive is necessary because the beneficiaries are primarily poor Africans, who haven't got enough money to be of interest to the drug companies. I would imagine that on a similar basis some donor could be interested in the researching of non-toxic protein stabilizers for concentrated CS. But then again, it appears there is a bit of evidence that CS also works against the malarial parasite. Reid Jason/ AVRA wrote: .I don't want to discourage your pursuits, Reid... Not at all. Like I mentioned earlier, I cannot imagine not being able to create a concentrated silver product that uses a protein stablizer that does not create potentially toxic silver compounds. The only possible reason I can imagine wanting to do so is your reason! -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@eskimo.com
