date:20060921

> Your bullying techniques won't work on me.

I'm afraid the aggression is getting going both ways and needs to stop 
now. It's time to cool down.

Looking back over your questions now and a few weeks back, Angel, I can 
see that you've worked hard to try to get what you want.

I honestly can't shake the worry that you're being betrayed by some 
weird measurement issue. Do you realize how much CS you'd have to make 
to visibly thin out a set of electrodes if it's only a few ppm?

Here's an idea:

Can you or anyone you know use a pair of machinist's calipers or a 
micrometer to measure the diameter of your wire electrodes for us?

With a good measurement, accurate to the nearest thousanth of an inch 
or so, we could calculate the approximate weight of silver that has 
gone into your water. If you also know the number of batches you've 
made or the number of gallons of water you've used, we'd have a back-of-
the-envelope figure for the average concentration you've been 
producing. 

If this issue is going to be resolved, rather than abandoned, we *must* 
have a way to cross-check your concentration measurements. My 
suggestion at least has the benefit of being cheap to do!

These guys are right about a couple of things, for sure: If the silver 
is gone from the electrodes then it has to have gone somewhere. If you 
can't see where it went in the form of deposits on the glass or fluffy 
bits on the electrodes, then the only place it could have gone was into 
the water. 

If it is topping out at 4 ppm that should show up. If the problem *is* 
with the measurement tool it would be good for you to find that out 
before you invest more of your money, time and energy in another 
generator.

Be well,

Mike Devour
silver-list owner

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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CS>24 volt generator ... questions ...

2006-09-21 Thread Wayne Fugitt


Voltage Questions

Can anyone show me how to get a consistent 18 microgram per measure 
which is considered safe using my method please?


   If you can measure this, you are already ahead of most of us.
What is the "measure"?  I would be interested in how you came up with 
the 18 micrograms.




  Should I use only two batteries (e.g. 18 volts) or even just one?


   You can use any voltage,  a 6 Volt Battery, a 12 Volt 
battery,  the 18 volts, 24 Volts, up to 100 VDC or more.


Depending on starting conductivity and electrode spacing, you may 
need a current limiter of some type.


Do you have a way to test your water for conductivity?
Monitoring the current flow would be ideal for you to learn more 
about the system you are designing, as you go along.


Most successful systems do not accidently happen.  Some form or 
automatic or manual control must be implemented.


I have used 75 VDC and I think Terry uses 100 or 110 VDC.

Knowing how to use and control these voltages from 5 to 
200,  requires an understanding of the process and the limitations of 
each voltage, electrode  spacing, and electrode size.


  Also how much water should be used.  The coin halfs cannot be 
totally submerged so I can't give you an exact square inch surface 
area total but I can submergre them about 75% in the liquid due to 
having to clamp them and place the clamps on a support.
   Interesting.. are they that big and that heavy?  Seems with 2 
short pieces of silver or other wire, they could be fully submerged.


Some of your questions suggest that you do not have any instrumentation.
Maybe I misunderstood something.

If you are serious about understanding the process and mastering your 
chosen system, I suggest you get a current meter and possibly an EC 
meter.   Considering the value of the finished product, these 
instruments are virtually free.


Wayne



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Re: CS>Silverfacts ( drops per ounce )

Hi Wayne,

In my calculation the operative word is "about!" 

I used the approximations of 20 drops per cc, which works pretty well 
for water and thin glass pipettes, and assumed 28g per ounce. (A troy 
ounce is about 31g...)

The correspondence between volume and weight measure is for water at 
standard temperature and pressure. Since CS is very nearly pure water, 
and I'm not worried about hair splitting accuracy, 1cc = 1ml = 1g is 
close enough.

So, ballpark figure, yeah, they recommend about a tablespoon per day. 
Sure not going to get argyria on that dose!

Be well,

Mike D.

> Evening Mike,
> 
>  >>At 08:32 AM 9/21/2006, you wrote:
> 
> >Their dosing recommendation is very conservative. Using their rule of
> >thumb, I'd want to take 12*220/10=264 drops per day of a 10 ppm
> >product, which is about 13 milliliters, or less than a tablespoon.
> 
> I suppose that I could convert your milliliters to ounces.
> Not really, one is volume, the other is weight.
> 
> Many people still use measuring methods that uses the ounce for volume.
> 
> I built a drop counter, connected this into an event counter, and 
> converted the drops to ounces.
> 
> Likely some of the hand help droppers would be a lot different from the
> irrigation emitter I used.
> 
> Typically, I found there to be 620 to 640 drops per ounce.  This will
> vary with viscosity, pressure, drop size and a few other things.
> 
> I don't think many of us will use drops for measuring CS.
> 
> Wayne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
> 
> Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org
> 
> To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
> 
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> 
> The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down...
> 
> List maintainer: Mike Devour 
> 
> 

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]

Re: CS>better generator?

2006-09-21 Thread toreadpeoplehealthinfo


Ode,

Your bullying techniques won't work on me.

You are not being truthful or honorable and you know it.

You are threatening me and you are insinuating a load of dishonorable things 
about me dishonorably.


I have nothing more to say to you or your "possy" who's got their panties in 
a wad that a girl actually dares to speak a truth that happens to annoy 
them.


I didn't ask for this DRAMA and all these accusations from you or your 
posse.


I didn't complain about you or your product.  I just asked for a 
recommendation.  My post last week just stated that I needed a simple 
reommendation on other products people are using.  Nothing more !  You act 
like I attacked your manhood !


If this is what happens to anyone who DARES to say that your generator isn't 
working well, no wonder you have to ask ME for the names of the people 
unhappy with what you're selling !  If you really want to hear from people 
directly, consider following your own advice and open your mind to the 
possibility that your product is FAULTY instead of taking the easy way out 
and blaming the user.


"If I insist that the root of a problem lies where it doesn't, I'll NEVER 
solve the problem."


I asked you for an address to return your unit, days ago.  Never got it. 
Don't care to deal with all your hassle about it anymore for a measly 
hundred bucks.


I'm getting my new generator and have enough people on this list who've 
contacted me off-line and offered to help right now as well as once I get 
going again with the new generator.


So, I'm all set and grateful for all the help and humor shared with me by so 
many wonderful people on this list!



Signing off.

Angel



- Original Message - 
From: "Ode Coyote" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: CS>better generator?



  Hey
 If the silver is coming off the electrodes, there's no way in the world
it's not going into the water.
 If there is current flowing between the electrodes, it has to make silver
ions to do it.
 Since the LED is hooked up in series with the electrodes in a silverpuppy
and SHOWS that ions are entering the water which it must do for current to
flow, if that LED is lit, it MUST be making ions in that water.
If the LED isn't lit up, there's no way the electrodes will erode.
 There's just no way around that.

If the LED lights up and the electrodes DON'T go away, that could be due
to water inside the generator. [Which will eventually kill the generator]
 That current is going somewhere.
 If the LED lights up when the electrodes AREN'T in the water, the
generator is full of water and we'll go from there.

 Either your "problem" is in the way you measure the PPM.
Or where the silver  *wound up* after it entered the water.
 It's there somewhere !
 If the bottom of the generator is all silvery, that's where it went and
where it will continue to go because the container was repeatedly filled
too full and the *operator* shorted the process out.
In all such cases, it's operator error of the machine, or the instruments.

 Have these "other people" contact me.
 Those who have, received satisfaction.
 I'll fix any machine that's really broken, regardless of reason, or lack
there-of...but sending in a machine that's not really broken is absolutely
pointless.

98 times out of a hundred, it's the operator that needs the trouble
shooting.
  Another 1.98% is a broken machine because the operator didn't get the
troubleshooting soon enough.
 .02% is plain old *out of the blue*  failure of some part.
It doesn't matter which...I'll fix whatever CAN be fixed.
 I can't fix a persons head without their co-operation.

Believe this:  There is no limit to perceptual error and resulting logical
error.
 I've had more than one person call and ask why a spot of paint no longer
lights up. [If you ever really DID see that spot of paint light up, tell
me how you got it to. I'll share the riches! ]
One even saw the red LED light up several times when the first thing they
did was to put the power supply in their junk drawer.
 There was no red LED on that machine. [It was yellow and can't light up
unless you plug something in]

 Even the smartest people can do incredibly idiotic things and never even
consider that they are being the idiots.
 Everyone does it now and then, myself not excepted.
 That's human nature.

 I don't know who said this but it's true enough.
"Nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool."

 I know this from experience:
If I insist that the root of a problem lies where it doesn't, I'll NEVER
solve the problem.
 The very first place to look is how the problem is being perceived
because perception is the least reliable element in any problem.

"It can't be this because I can't be that stupid" ?
Forget that.  It never works.
 ANYBODY can be that stupid.  Denying it never helps.
 Saying that "other people" have made the same errors doesn't make them
not be errors.
What is far more likely is that those people discovered that they w

CS>24 volt generator ... questions ...

2006-09-21 Thread Mostly Research

I made a generator using a canadian silver dollar that was cut in half.  I let 
it go for about an hour and a half when I noticed it was becoming very clowdy.  
I had no idea how long to set it for at that point.  I let it set over night 
and a lot of the silver reformed and dropped out of solution.  I took the top 
half and diluted it (from about 6 ounces of water or thereabouts) and diluted 
it.  I put it in my eye dropper which had iodized salt.  After several days it 
seemed to to form either more silver deposits but since it seemed black it may 
have formed silver iodide...?  I don't know.  The coins in the original 
generator formed a blackish crust on them.  Was that too much voltage?  Not 
enough distilled water?  Or what?...  

Can anyone show me how to get a consistent 18 microgram per measure which is 
considered safe using my method please?   Should I use only two batteries (e.g. 
18 volts) or even just one?   Also how much water should be used.  The coin 
halfs cannot be totally submerged so I can't give you an exact square inch 
surface area total but I can submergre them about 75% in the liquid due to 
having to clamp them and place the clamps on a support.  

Thank you very much in advance...

Greetings and well wishes for a healthier tomorrow.   

I don't like having to use silver jewelery as a stop gap emergency treatment 
since that silver is impure but it does work also.  

I have had an infected tooth on two occasions that lasted for more than 9 
months and in each case I was able to subdue it with colloidal silver.  I only 
wish I had access and the knowledge I now posess before all of that suffering.  

A friend gave me some of his silver that he makes using silver wire and it was 
at his suggestion that I might try a silver coin.  

I have a lot of dental work to look forward to so I am happy to share that this 
treatment above all else I've tried so far works the best but you must remember 
it should be used in conjunction with a wholeistic approach.  When infected 
don't take vitamins because it only supplies nutrients to the infection.   Take 
pro biotics such as lactobacillus acidophilus and l. bifidus (which should 
comprise as much as 80% of your normal flora.  Bifidus comes from mothers milk 
and carot roots.  Carrot juice is great for you.   I have a culture from Europe 
that is a strain of this which resists stomach acids well and will contact you 
later about its effectiveness as I was hospitalized recently due to "gastro 
enteritis" from being in a very pathogenic environment.  

take care,

m.r.


Care2 make the world greener!



Care2 make the world greener!

Stop the Forest Service from killing more wolves, bears, cougars, and other 
animals in the wild:
http://go.care2.com/99055

http://www.Care2.com  Free e-mail. 100MB storage.  Helps nonprofits. 


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RE: CS>Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease or COPD

2006-09-21 Thread Sharlene Miyamura

I'm sorry I missed this one, what is the recipe, again, please? And what is
the dosage for COPD?

Thank you!

 

  _  

From: Staya Udanvti Bob Butler [mailto:cheroke...@cox.net] 
  

 

Hi All!

 

I found cream of tarter on the bulk herb site I have used for quit a while
and I really like their prices and service:

http://www.herbalcom.com/store.php3?list=cats
 &session=096990262a1af425c786904bb888d717

cream of tartar $5.50# plus $5.50 S/H no cost for freight.

CS>macular degeneration ??s

2006-09-21 Thread Marshalee Hallett

Dear Folks,
Does anyone have any input about macular degeneration?
I have a small spot in the center of the vision of my right eye. It isn`t
diagnosed yet, but could be MD.
Marshalee
PS, the knee is lots better, and the doc has been putting cortisone patches
on it, and today one of my sore feet, to see if they will help them.
Also, I went swimming today for the first time in 2 years or more, and it
helped the swelling some!



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Re: CS>honey to faith

2006-09-21 Thread Carol Ann

So where and how do we get the good honey?  Local bee keepers only?

Staya Udanvti  Bob Butler  wrote:   For HONEY to be an 
effective herbal remedy it must  be Raw, natural, un-processed, un-heated, 
un-filtered, honey. Real honey as  extracted from the combs will contain bits 
of wax, pollen beads, propolis, and  bee body parts. This will not sell in 
stores.
  
 I know of no way to put the organic title to honey  as the bees will travel up 
to fifty miles away. If someone is touting organic  then their honey must come 
from a very remote island at least 50 miles from  any other land.
  
 Heating above 105ï¿½ F kills the beneficial enzymes.  Microwaving honey also 
destroys the enzymes.
  
 "Typical honey analysis: Fructose: 38%, Glucose: 31%, Sucrose: 1%, Water:  
17%, Other sugars: 9% (maltose, melezitose), Ash: 0.17% .. Source: Sugar  
Alliance "

  
 Love
Bob
Adageyudi
Staya  Udanvti
  
- Original Message - 
   From:zeb caffe
   To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
   Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:26PM
   Subject: CS>honey to faith
   

Just wondering, what does the honey do for the flora? I knowthat coffee is 
supposed to help detox the liver.Does honey have a differenteffect? Also, 
does it matter what type of honey you use?  

-
   How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengerï¿½s low PC-to-Phonecall 
rates.


  

Carol Ann

People should not be afraid of their Governments. Governments should be afraid 
of their people.
"V"


   







-
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates 
starting at 1¢/min.

Re: CS>honey to faith

Back in the 1980's when I was keeping bees in Yuma AZ we got a new taste we had 
never before had. It came from the thousands of acres of rape seed over in 
Imperial Valley approximately 50 miles bee line. Maybe the lack of pollen in 
our citrus groves were not keeping them happy. This was when the citrus farmers 
were cutting their groves out because it cost them to have them picked and 
packed.
Maybe the deserts lack of vegetation is a factor?.
This is why I said 50 miles.
  - Original Message - 
  From: T J Garland 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 6:46 PM
  Subject: Re: CS>honey to faith


  50 miles!!! Here in Tn. we beekeepers figure 3 mile radius.
- Original Message - 
From: Staya Udanvti Bob Butler 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: CS>honey to faith


For HONEY to be an effective herbal remedy it must be Raw, natural, 
un-processed, un-heated, un-filtered, honey. Real honey as extracted from the 
combs will contain bits of wax, pollen beads, propolis, and bee body parts. 
This will not sell in stores.

I know of no way to put the organic title to honey as the bees will travel 
up to fifty miles away. If someone is touting organic then their honey must 
come from a very remote island at least 50 miles from any other land.

Heating above 105³ F kills the beneficial enzymes. Microwaving honey also 
destroys the enzymes.

"Typical honey analysis: Fructose: 38%, Glucose: 31%, Sucrose: 1%, Water: 
17%, Other sugars: 9% (maltose, melezitose), Ash: 0.17% .. Source: Sugar 
Alliance "


Love
Bob
Adageyudi
Staya Udanvti

  - Original Message - 
  From: zeb caffe 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:26 PM
  Subject: CS>honey to faith


  Just wondering, what does the honey do for the flora? I know that coffee 
is supposed to help detox the liver.Does honey have a different effect? Also, 
does it matter what type of honey you use? 


--
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rates.

Re: CS>honey to faith

2006-09-21 Thread T J Garland

50 miles!!! Here in Tn. we beekeepers figure 3 mile radius.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Staya Udanvti Bob Butler 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 4:13 PM
  Subject: Re: CS>honey to faith

  For HONEY to be an effective herbal remedy it must be Raw, natural, 
un-processed, un-heated, un-filtered, honey. Real honey as extracted from the 
combs will contain bits of wax, pollen beads, propolis, and bee body parts. 
This will not sell in stores.

  I know of no way to put the organic title to honey as the bees will travel up 
to fifty miles away. If someone is touting organic then their honey must come 
from a very remote island at least 50 miles from any other land.

  Heating above 105³ F kills the beneficial enzymes. Microwaving honey also 
destroys the enzymes.

  "Typical honey analysis: Fructose: 38%, Glucose: 31%, Sucrose: 1%, Water: 
17%, Other sugars: 9% (maltose, melezitose), Ash: 0.17% .. Source: Sugar 
  Alliance "

  Love
  Bob
  Adageyudi
  Staya Udanvti

- Original Message - 
From: zeb caffe 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:26 PM
Subject: CS>honey to faith

Just wondering, what does the honey do for the flora? I know that coffee is 
supposed to help detox the liver.Does honey have a different effect? Also, does 
it matter what type of honey you use? 

How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

Re: CS>Raw Honey - medical miracle


Wow Charles!
Where did you get your information on honey?

I hate to correct you but ALL honey is a liquid or fluid at room temperature 
until it crystallizes from water evaporation. Honey viscosity ranges from 
very thick to very thin. Like 90 weight oil and 5 weight motor oil depending 
on many environmental factors..
There are two very important truths in your posting: 1, Raw. Heating above 
105 degrees F will kill the effective enzymes. Microwaving destroys them 
immediately and can change the flavor drastically. 2, Manuka Honey is no 
different than your local beekeepers product except the flavor. Therefore 
IMHO not worth the cost.
Buying local honey from a small beekeeper will almost assure you it is raw 
and probably un-filtered.
I can almost guarantee you most of the commercial honey you buy in the 
grocery store has been filtered and heated simply to enhance the looks and 
ease of container filling processes. Real honey has bits of wax, propolis, 
pollen beads, and bee body parts when centrifugally extracted.


Love
Bob
Adageyudi
Staya Udanvti

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Marcus" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:18 PM
Subject: CS>Raw Honey - medical miracle



Was wondering if anyone has had any experience with Manuka honey for
healing wounds?


Hi Leigh,

Don't waste your money on the Manuka...

Honey is a near miraculous treatment for many, many different things, 
especially burns (even really bad ones) and scars (even really big/old 
ones), but there is one caveat: it must be truly raw.


Second most important thing is, if you can get it, get local honey from a 
local bee-keeper. But truly raw is the most important things.


The problem is, honey providers can heat honey to as high as 160 degrees 
and still *legally* label it as 'raw'. Very few honey providers who sell 
'raw' honey actually sell truly RAW honey. If it is fluid at room temp, 
then, unless it is Tupelo or - forget the other kind - then it has been 
heated, rest assured.


The best *commercial* brands of truly raw honey, that I know of, are 
'ReallyRaw', and YS Organics' Personally I love YS Organics, and it is 
available at Harry's/Whole Foods.


Charles




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Re: CS>WAR ON PLASTIC: Rejecting the toxic plague

2006-09-21 Thread Deborah Gerard

Good link thanks Wendy..debbie

Wendy  wrote:  
This was sent to me from our Naturopath:

http://www.culturechange.org/e-letter-plastics.html

In our ever increasing toxic world the above web site has identified a
major problem that I am seeing in more patients every day. PLASTICS are
Dangerous! Plastics are responsible for most of the increases in
serious diseases.
By drawing your attention to this we all can become part of a solution
rather than accept disaster without a fight.




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-
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CS>Silverfacts ( drops per ounce )

2006-09-21 Thread Wayne Fugitt


Evening Mike,

>>At 08:32 AM 9/21/2006, you wrote:


Their dosing recommendation is very conservative. Using their rule of
thumb, I'd want to take 12*220/10=264 drops per day of a 10 ppm
product, which is about 13 milliliters, or less than a tablespoon.


   I suppose that I could convert your milliliters to ounces.
Not really, one is volume, the other is weight.

Many people still use measuring methods that uses the ounce for volume.

I built a drop counter, connected this into an event counter, and 
converted the drops to ounces.


Likely some of the hand help droppers would be a lot different from 
the irrigation emitter I used.


Typically, I found there to be 620 to 640 drops per ounce.  This will 
vary with viscosity, pressure, drop size and a few other things.


I don't think many of us will use drops for measuring CS.

Wayne





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Re: CS>Re: better generator?


What Dan means is this:

  Once upon a time there was this fellow who bought a Silverpuppy.
After a year and a half or so he bought a really expensive water processing 
system and a packaging system.

 Suddenly he had a big problem with the Silverpuppy.
 He sent me samples of his water and CS.
It was the weirdest and worst water I'd ever seen but having paid thousands 
for the system and only a hundred or so for the generator..


  "That couldn't be it"

 How weird?
 Upon opening the pressurized packages both the water and the CS had 
fluffy chunks in it he claimed was some sort of algae or mold.  He just 
couldn't see that the water had the same crap in it that the CS had in it, 
therefore, the generator didn't do that. [And it probably wasn't even 
organic...probably was a packaging effect where pressure packing 
crystallized pre-existing mineral salts that made it though or were 
*created by* his very expensive water unit ]
The water read around 4 uS on a Hanna PWT if I recall.  Not wonderful but 
not too bad. I started thinking "Bad Puppy"  But within an hour all the 
fluffy stuff was gone and it read well over 20 uS which is over the shut 
down point on a Silverpuppy.


It's not likely there was any silver in the CS sample but I don't have the 
tools to tell one way or the other when starting out in a situation where 
they tell me nothing about silver at all.


He wanted a refund so he could buy a Silvergen SG6.  He got the refund 
without argument after being happy with it for almost 2 years till be 
bought the water system,  just the comment that a Silvergen works the same 
way and it's far more than likely he'll have the exact same problems.  [I 
also sent Trem a "heads up" ]


 He left my arena as a happy camper and said so.
I never heard about what happened next.  I didn't hear any crowing.  It 
takes no guts at all to crow.   It takes real guts to "eat" crow and admit 
that "expensive" doesn't always mean "good".

  Not many people have that kind of guts. Con men count on that fact.
  I would be foolish to expect that and don't.

That guy was "taken" by *someone*, but it wasn't me [or Trem]
 Like as not, he couldn't get service from the water system seller and 
defaulted to where he *could* get service.
Or..he never looked at where the problem really was simply because he paid 
a lot for it and just blamed the handiest people.


On that note:  Most "PPM" meters are plain junk, none are very accurate, 
any of them can go out of calibration, none are calibrated in the right 
range for use on CS and can read WAY off and still meet manufacturers range 
error specificationsand all readings are easily mis-interpreted.


 A "conductivity" meter is far far better, still has quirks and limits to 
be aware of and accounted for when using it for something it wasn't 
designed for.


 No meter, good meter or not, reads silver content.
If you don't know what they do and how they work, you can get really confused.
Confusion should not be mistaken for facts.
When confusion is revealed as confusion..with the facts, insisting that 
it's still a fact is not reasonable. [dammit]


 If you look for service from a PPM meter manufacturer when using it for 
something it wasn't designed for, you will very often get a blank stare or 
a pack of lies in leu of an honest, "I don't know"especially if the 
specifications are written to obscure the limits of the device rather than 
make them clear.


After going around and around with Hanna tech for a month, I never did get 
a straight answer from them...just a string of denials amounting to "You're 
too stupid to ask questions we have no answers for but can't bring 
ourselves to admit."
 A friend of mine..a bar tender... coined a term that fits. 
"Belignorant"  [beligerantly ignorant]
It took me 3 more months and $400+ worth of  "lab tests"  to figure out 
what that PWT meter was really doing  [And that's a GOOD meter].and 
throw my Hanna PPM meter in the trash. [Bad meter ]


 Hanna has no clue about silver water.
HM Digital at least acknowledges there might be a clue they don't have. 
[They are actually interested and learning from people who use those meters]
HM Digtal PPM meters have serious limitations and discrepancies between 
identical meters when used in the same samples.

 They are still better than most PPM meters.
 They are useful within their limits but by no means a reason to say 
anything at all about "different" samples using different PPM meters.


 What Dan means is, if you've mis-identified the source of a perceived 
problem and change the wrong thing, you'll most likely have the same problem.


 My opinion on that is, go right ahead. You'll find out the hard way.
I'll even help because, if there really IS a problem, I want to know 
exactly what the problem is so I can design [or instruct] around it.

 If I help you find out, maybe I'll get some "real" info.
 On the other hand, you don't actually have to know what's wrong to find 
out what's ri

RE: CS>Angels CS problems


  http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-04/rhf/feature/index.php


The use of "TDS" (total dissolved solids) meters for analyzing the purity 
of fresh water has become widespread in recent years. Many aquarists use 
them to determine if tap water purification systems such as reverse osmosis 
(RO) or reverse osmosis/deionization (RO/DI) are working properly, or if 
deionizing resins need to be replaced.


The use of such devices, however, is not without complications. Contrary to 
what the name might imply, for example, these devices do not measure all 
dissolved solids. There are also many different units of measure used with 
TDS meters. While all are referred to as ppm (parts per million), they are 
still different, just as degrees Celsius are different than degrees Fahrenheit.

.etc

Good article
Ode

At 10:06 PM 9/20/2006 +0930, you wrote:


Hi Terry

i also thought it funny that Angel said that the rods were wearing down , 
if there wasn't actually alot of cs being produced, but i thought it might 
have been a mistake, as the silver cannot just disappear. I find it 
strange that there would be any noticable change in the rods over a short 
period of time as i can use mine for several months before i can see any 
significant change in rod thickness.
and surely if Angel was producing stronger cs but failing to get a correct 
reading as to the ppm, the silver would have discoloured the water to some 
extent.


you make mention of the inaccuracies involved with using TDS meters to 
measure ppm could you pass on some information to me about this as i use a 
TDS meter to test for ppm and would like to learn more, any links you have 
would be a help if you dont mind.


Thanks alot

Nathan



From: Terry Chamberlin 
Reply-To: silver-list@eskimo.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>Angels CS problems
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:09:03 -0400 (EDT)

Angel said,
>They realized all they were doing was wearing down
their silver rods.<

If you are *wearing down* your silver rods, it is
working. The rods don't *wear down*, they dissolve. If
they are dissolving quickly, your water is getting
plenty of silver.

I think the issue may be in what you think you are
getting. You said it was 3-4 ppm. How did you arrive
at this number? The only way I know of accurately
measuring ppm is with a spectrophotometer, which I
assume you don't possess. The readings you get with a
TDS or PWT meter are not ppm, and must be translated
into ppm using various formulas which are not
dependably or consistently accurate.

I had a sample of my CS tested by a local Industrial
testing laboratory some time back and was told it was
5 ppm. I KNEW that was wrong, so I had them test it
again. They said, Oh Yeah, sorry, it is actually 7
ppm. I sent some of that same batch to Old Bob, and he
pronounced it to be 18.7 ppm, very small particle
size. I asked him why the difference in testing
results, and he said the lab near me didn't know how
to test for the nanosilver portion (what he called
'ionic').




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CS>how meters, silverpuppy and silvergen generators work


Both work the same way.
There is a current control circuit that holds current constant once the 
conductivity has increased to the point that the current wants to go higher 
than the set point.
In essence, it will "run away" very slowly until the current control puts 
the brakes on and holds the speed steady.
 The way it keeps current the same regardless of the conductivity going 
higher is by automatically  dropping the voltage.


The auto off circuit is a voltage comparator.
 It is fed a specific internal voltage to compare the electrode voltage to.
When the electrode voltage drops to the point that both voltages match 
while keeping current constant as conductivity rises, it turns itself off.
 Since electrode exposure, spacing, current, conductivity and voltage are 
all interdependent, it works exactly like a conductivity meter. Like a 
conductivity meter, there are ways a careless person can make it read wrong.


 Conductivity meters that operate in the pure water ranges, used with 
care, come pretty close to AA Spectrophotometer results.


The SG6s I've seen are set at around 15 microsiemens max with a dial to set 
it lower and no way to go higher
 The Silverpuppy is set at  around 15 microsiemens with no 'go lower' dial 
but with a bypass so you can go as high as you dare.


 The "derived" relationship of microsiemens of conductivity to PPM at one 
to one [ Or Trems  one to 1.2 ] is only valid between around 10 and 20 PPM 
and includes a fudge factor for unreadable "colloidal" content .  Under 8 a 
meter reading slews high, over 20 it slews low.
 That means, if a meter is reading 25 uS, the actual silver content could 
be as high as around 30 PPM.  If it's reading 35, it could be as high as 50 
PPM.  There's no way to tell.


 A "PPM" meter adds another fudge factor to a conductivity reading 
specific for various metal salts to make yet another approximate 
"association"...NOT CS.

 Each salt has it's own fudge factor.
 It does not read "PPM" in any substance.
 Given a calibration at 300 PPM in saline and a range of 0 to 2,000 PPM, a 
+/- 2%  range read error can amount to over 20 PPM which is somewhere 
around 40 microsiemens when used in the 5 to 10 PPM ranges.

 They are in fact better than that but far from perfect.
 Two identical and identically calibrated PPM meters can often both read 
zero in distilled water, 2 PPM in one sample, then one at 6 PPM and the 
other at 8 PPM in the same higher PPM sample.


  That's a difference in reading of around 4 PPM/uS  "equivalency in 
silver" in the same sample.
 "Conductivity" meters are far more repeatable with differences rarely 
going over .5 uS between meters.


6 PPM by a PPM meter  in "silver water" is about 12 PPM and an 8  PPM 
reading on that PPM meter is around 16 PPM by the spectrophotometer.


 I've had state run water labs return results as high as 50 PPM by their 
methods that tested at 12 PPM by the AA Spectrophotometer set up 
specifically for silver at the "colloidal sciences" lab.
 Finding actual silver content is not easy even for the pros in 
multimillion dollar labs that do nothing BUT test water.
 Thinking that a $14 PPM meter using 3 fudge factors all lined up and 
calibrated at 30 times the use range will do better is pretty arrogant.

 It's amazing they do as well as they do.

ode


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CS>lurker mode


I gotta go into lurker mode for a while.
Life is close on my heals after spending all this time ranting and raving.

If anyone needs special attention use odecoyo...@alltel.net

 You're all cool.
 Yes, you too Angel.
 Don't pay my tirade any mind.

ode


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Re: CS>better generator?




  Hey
 If the silver is coming off the electrodes, there's no way in the world 
it's not going into the water.
 If there is current flowing between the electrodes, it has to make silver 
ions to do it.
 Since the LED is hooked up in series with the electrodes in a silverpuppy 
and SHOWS that ions are entering the water which it must do for current to 
flow, if that LED is lit, it MUST be making ions in that water.

If the LED isn't lit up, there's no way the electrodes will erode.
 There's just no way around that.

If the LED lights up and the electrodes DON'T go away, that could be due to 
water inside the generator. [Which will eventually kill the generator]

 That current is going somewhere.
 If the LED lights up when the electrodes AREN'T in the water, the 
generator is full of water and we'll go from there.


 Either your "problem" is in the way you measure the PPM.
Or where the silver  *wound up* after it entered the water.
 It's there somewhere !
 If the bottom of the generator is all silvery, that's where it went and 
where it will continue to go because the container was repeatedly filled 
too full and the *operator* shorted the process out.

In all such cases, it's operator error of the machine, or the instruments.

 Have these "other people" contact me.
 Those who have, received satisfaction.
 I'll fix any machine that's really broken, regardless of reason, or lack 
there-of...but sending in a machine that's not really broken is absolutely 
pointless.


98 times out of a hundred, it's the operator that needs the trouble shooting.
  Another 1.98% is a broken machine because the operator didn't get the 
troubleshooting soon enough.

 .02% is plain old *out of the blue*  failure of some part.
It doesn't matter which...I'll fix whatever CAN be fixed.
 I can't fix a persons head without their co-operation.

Believe this:  There is no limit to perceptual error and resulting logical 
error.
 I've had more than one person call and ask why a spot of paint no longer 
lights up. [If you ever really DID see that spot of paint light up, tell me 
how you got it to. I'll share the riches! ]
One even saw the red LED light up several times when the first thing they 
did was to put the power supply in their junk drawer.
 There was no red LED on that machine. [It was yellow and can't light up 
unless you plug something in]


 Even the smartest people can do incredibly idiotic things and never even 
consider that they are being the idiots.

 Everyone does it now and then, myself not excepted.
 That's human nature.

 I don't know who said this but it's true enough.
"Nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool."

 I know this from experience:
If I insist that the root of a problem lies where it doesn't, I'll NEVER 
solve the problem.
 The very first place to look is how the problem is being perceived 
because perception is the least reliable element in any problem.


"It can't be this because I can't be that stupid" ?
Forget that.  It never works.
 ANYBODY can be that stupid.  Denying it never helps.
 Saying that "other people" have made the same errors doesn't make them 
not be errors.
What is far more likely is that those people discovered that they were 
looking at the problem cock-eyed and are reasonable people.


 Any machine can have a problem even if the odds are very good it's the 
person with the problem.
List the "other people" and I'll address the problems where they are, no 
matter where OR why they are. [Even if "I" am it or have to buy my way out 
of their part because they refuse to address the perception of a problem 
that doesn't really exist ]


It boils down to this cold hard fact:
 Either you'll be happy with the product or you'll be happy denying being 
a sufficiently talented  idiot.

 That's what "Refund for no reason at all" means.
Usually, 30 days is long enough to not figure something out.

In your case, Angel, that was extended to *whatever it takes* on 
09/19/06  without any arguments, but you didn't bother to mention that 
here.  It takes you almost 2 years?


Not mentioning that is a direct and dishonest public attack on my 
integrity, honesty and reputation which is the very basis of sales...the 
customers, being my only sales team. [BTW, thanks for the very nice  plugs 
to Marianna. The CS probably went brown due to contaminants impregnated in 
the storage bottle glass..happened to me once too, after triple washing and 
rinsing that jar.   Funny story actually. ]

 Legally, that's called slander.

 I'll not play that game.
Make your return, take your refund..
..but doing so will be quite revealing, now won't it?

How?  Not having the machine looked at disallows eliminating it as the problem.
However pointless having a free look-see might be, however many times that 
option was offered, it hasn't been done.

 "It" either works right or it doesn't.
  If it doesn't, I  would have MADE it work right, at no charge, as stated.
If there's nothing wrong with it, there's something

Re: CS>Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease or COPD

Hi All!

I found cream of tarter on the bulk herb site I have used for quit a while and
I really like their prices and service:
http://www.herbalcom.com/store.php3?list=cats&session=096990262a1af425c786904bb888d717
cream of tartar $5.50# plus $5.50 S/H no cost for freight.

Love
Bob
Adageyudi
Staya Udanvti

- Original Message -
From: Dan Nave
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 1:17 PM
Subject: RE: CS>Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease or COPD

From: geop...@aol.com [mailto:geop...@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:45 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease or COPD

i stopped at our local pathmark, to pick up some cream of tartar to try,,
found it in the spice aisle, in an tiny jar, (maybe 2 or 3 teaspoon jar),, for
about 5 dollars,, is this the same stuff, if so this would be quite costly,, ,,
and yes i know , if it works , it would be so cheap in the long run,, just want
to make sure i am getting the right stuff,,, because, i also seen cream of
tartar, in the mayonaise aisle , for a fraction of the cost. thanks to all,
geo.

http://www.ochef.com/933.htm

http://www.kalyx.com/store/prodpage.cfm

http://www.kalyx.com/store/proddetail.cfm/ItemID/319259.0/CategoryID/12500.0/SubCatID/30.0/file.htm

$11.58 per pound

Q. Please tell me what cream of tartar is and where I can find it?
A. Cream of tartar is is the common name for potassium hydrogen tartrate, an
acid salt that has a number of uses in cooking. Now, before you get all jittery
about the thought of cooking with an acid, it's worth noting that milk, brown
sugar, steak, plums, and just about every other food we eat is acidic. In fact,
egg whites and baking soda are the only non-acidic (alkaline) foods we have.

Cream of tartar is obtained when tartaric acid is half neutralized with
potassium hydroxide, transforming it into a salt. Grapes are the only
significant natural source of tartaric acid, and cream of tartar is a obtained
from sediment produced in the process of making wine. (The journal Nature
reported some years ago that traces of calcium tartrate found in a pottery jar
in the ruins of a village in northern Iran are evidence that wine was being
made more than 7,000 years ago.)

Cream of tartar is best known in our kitchens for helping stabilize and give
more volume to beaten egg whites. It is the acidic ingredient in some brands of
baking powder. It is also used to produce a creamier texture in sugary desserts
such as candy and frosting. It is used commercially in some soft drinks,
candies, bakery products, gelatin desserts, and photography products. Cream of
tartar can also be used to clean brass and copper cookware.

If you are beating eggs whites and don't have cream of tartar, you can
substitute white vinegar (in the same ratio as cream of tartar, generally 1/8
teaspoon per egg white). It is a little more problematic to find a substitute
for cream of tartar in baking projects. White vinegar or lemon juice, in the
ratio of 3 times the amount of cream of tartar called for, will provide the
right amount of acid for most recipes. But that amount of liquid may cause
other problems in the recipe, and bakers have found that cakes made with
vinegar or lemon juice have a coarser grain and are more prone to shrinking
than those made with cream of tartar.

Now, if they were making cream of tarter 7,000 years ago in Iran (or at least
if cream of tartar was making itself), don't you think you can find the small
plastic or glass bottles it comes in among the hundreds of other small jars and
bottles in the spice section of your grocery store? Or you can get modest or
huge quantities of it online.

RE: CS>Re: better generator?

 That's all right, I was just trying to help you.

You don't have to apologize.

Dan 

-Original Message-
From: toreadpeoplehealthi...@gmail.com
[mailto:toreadpeoplehealthi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:23 PM
To: Dan Nave
Subject: Re: CS>Re: better generator?

Wow, I guess the list members were right about you after all.  It's
usually a sign of lack of pride of one self and one's accomplishments
when one gets satisfaction from putting people down and a sign of lack
of intelligence when rushing to conclusions without accurate facts.
Sorry you have to deal with all that.

- Original Message -
From: "Dan Nave" 
To: ; 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:26 AM
Subject: RE: CS>Re: better generator?


This is why I initially said that you probably won't have any better
experience with any other CS generator.  I stand by my analysis of the
situation.

Let's see if I am not right...

Dan


-Original Message-
From: toreadpeoplehealthi...@gmail.com
[mailto:toreadpeoplehealthi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:34 PM
To: Dan Nave
Cc: angelzi...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: CS>Re: better generator?

Dan,

It is You who are making assumptions based on almost no information from
me.

It is quite arrogant to assume to know what I know and what I don't know
based on my basic posts.  And even more arrogant and narrow minded to
assume to tell me what the problem is without collecting some facts
first.

ALL the parameters you detail below, I AM understanding fully and
clearly.
Your response is that "stating the obvious" kind, which some list
members warned me of.

I contacted the list only AFTER I had done the process of elimination
myself and AFTER consulting with my local and online friends who have
more years and knowledge regarding CS under their belts.

And I HAVE indeed consulted with Ken many, many times during the time
I've had his Silver Puppy.  And we've together gone through the list of
the "obvious" and the not so obvious parameters several times, to no
avail.  I'm tired of wasting time on trying to fix something that
clearly is NOT fixable and I just want to buy some other product that
WORKS !!

If stating the truth of my personal experience and that truth happens to
be annoying to you and it makes you feel better to call this "slander"
and offer snide remarks instead of an answer to my request  - knock
yourself out !

Perhaps considering being more open minded and less arrogant would help
you be less annoyed.

All I asked on this list of hundreds of CS makers and user was for
recommendations on an effective product OTHER than the Silver Puppy.  I
didn't ask for help in making it work, especially not the help of the
"stating the obvious" kind.

Why is asking for recommendation on other than Ode's product such a
DRAMA here ?  Is it a REQUIREMENT to use LOVE his products (even if they
don't work as they should) if I want to be a member of this list?


Angel




- Original Message -
From: "Dan Nave" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:51 AM
Subject: RE: CS>Re: better generator?


> Angel,
>
> I don't think you really understand the issues involved in making 
> colloidal silver and you are making assumptions based on this 
> misunderstanding.
>
> Terry makes some good points, although I don't agree 100% with 
> everything he said.  If you are "dissolving" your silver electrodes, 
> then you are performing the electrolysis process that makes colloidal 
> silver.  And, since you seem to have visible reduction in the size of 
> your electrodes it seems that you are putting a lot of silver into the

> water.  If this results in 3 to 4 ppm CS I would be very surprised.
>
> The SilverPuppy has an auto-shutoff feature which is calibrated to
shut
> off, not at a particular current, but at a certain voltage appearing 
> across the cell which has been selected based on the electrode size
and
> geometry and which correlates to the conductance of the cell.  What
this
> means is that as the electrolysis (making CS) process continues the 
> water has more silver ions in it and it conducts electricity more 
> easily.  Knowing the fixed conditions of the SilverPuppy electrode 
> configuration it can be set to shut down when there are a certain ppm
of
> ions in the cell (has a certain resistance, or inversely,
conductance).
> The shutdown is exact every time but because of the nature of CS
making
> and all the variables of water and contamination the ppm may not be 
> exact, but it should be close.  You should make a similar product
every
> time if you use good distilled water and do not contaminate the 
> electrodes or jar with anything, by handling or by cleaning processes;

> dirt,  hand acids and oils, soaps, hydrogen peroxide, etc.
>
> If the SilverPuppy auto-shutoff is turning off too soon, you still
have
> the option of running it manually without the shutoff by switching the

> toggle switch (away from the red dot, I think).  This way you can run 
> fo

Re: CS>honey to faith

For HONEY to be an effective herbal remedy it must be Raw, natural, 
un-processed, un-heated, un-filtered, honey. Real honey as extracted from the 
combs will contain bits of wax, pollen beads, propolis, and bee body parts. 
This will not sell in stores.

I know of no way to put the organic title to honey as the bees will travel up 
to fifty miles away. If someone is touting organic then their honey must come 
from a very remote island at least 50 miles from any other land.

Heating above 105³ F kills the beneficial enzymes. Microwaving honey also 
destroys the enzymes.

"Typical honey analysis: Fructose: 38%, Glucose: 31%, Sucrose: 1%, Water: 17%, 
Other sugars: 9% (maltose, melezitose), Ash: 0.17% .. Source: Sugar 
Alliance "


Love
Bob
Adageyudi
Staya Udanvti

  - Original Message - 
  From: zeb caffe 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:26 PM
  Subject: CS>honey to faith


  Just wondering, what does the honey do for the flora? I know that coffee is 
supposed to help detox the liver.Does honey have a different effect? Also, does 
it matter what type of honey you use?


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CS>Raw Honey - medical miracle

2006-09-21 Thread Charles Marcus


Was wondering if anyone has had any experience with Manuka honey for
healing wounds?


Hi Leigh,

Don't waste your money on the Manuka...

Honey is a near miraculous treatment for many, many different things, 
especially burns (even really bad ones) and scars (even really big/old 
ones), but there is one caveat: it must be truly raw.


Second most important thing is, if you can get it, get local honey from 
a local bee-keeper. But truly raw is the most important things.


The problem is, honey providers can heat honey to as high as 160 degrees 
and still *legally* label it as 'raw'. Very few honey providers who sell 
'raw' honey actually sell truly RAW honey. If it is fluid at room temp, 
then, unless it is Tupelo or - forget the other kind - then it has been 
heated, rest assured.


The best *commercial* brands of truly raw honey, that I know of, are 
'ReallyRaw', and YS Organics' Personally I love YS Organics, and it is 
available at Harry's/Whole Foods.


Charles


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Re: CS>Re: Colonic appliance instructions

2006-09-21 Thread Carol Ann

I am wondering about the quality of water being introduced directly into the 
colon. Some areas are so high in chemical and toxin content.I wounder about 
the wisdom of using tap water.   My reasoning is that...If its not fit to 
drink, why put it into the colon being cleaned. 

Charles Marcus  wrote: > Terry Chamberlin wrote:
>> Personal Colonic Appliance 

 > Hmmm...
 > Just wondering, would you not be working against gravity in the
 > sitting position.

I was wondering the same thing. I've been wanting to experiment with 
some kind of inversion device linked to a toilet, but haven't had the 
time - or a good enough plan to pursue it...

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Carol Ann

People should not be afraid of their Governments. Governments should be afraid 
of their people.
"V"

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 All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

CS>Re: Colonic appliance instructions

2006-09-21 Thread Charles Marcus

Terry Chamberlin wrote:
Personal Colonic Appliance 

> Hmmm...
> Just wondering, would you not be working against gravity in the
> sitting position.

I was wondering the same thing. I've been wanting to experiment with 
some kind of inversion device linked to a toilet, but haven't had the 
time - or a good enough plan to pursue it...

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RE: CS>cancel

To Unsubscribe:

To stop receiving the list as individual e-mails, start a new e-mail
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field and send it to: 


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from:  http://silverlist.org/
 

 


From: elainia...@aol.com [mailto:elainia...@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:24 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: CS>cancel


how do i cancel the emails ???
 
thank you

Re: CS>Silverfacts

2006-09-21 Thread Trem


Mike,

The one glaring error I found was their statement the silver was excreted in 
the feces.  Nope... it's in the urine.  Thanks to Roger Altman for his work. 
http://www.silvergen.com/General/altman.pdf  I sent them an email with that 
link so we'll see if they can take some criticism and correction.


You're right Mike, it does seem a bit slanted toward Invision.  But I do 
think they're trying to help remove the scare about CS that the FDA is 
tossing out.


Trem

- Original Message - 
From: "M. G. Devour" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Silverfacts



There's a marketing spin to some of it, but a decent presentation of
many points. Obviously offers Invision's product as an archtype and
discourages home-made preparations, just for two examples of bias.

Their dosing recommendation is very conservative. Using their rule of
thumb, I'd want to take 12*220/10=264 drops per day of a 10 ppm
product, which is about 13 milliliters, or less than a tablespoon.

They didn't mention anything about selenium or vitamin E
supplementation as part of avoiding argyria.

I hope 'CRUSH' isn't intended to apply solely to their commercial
competition. It's hard to know.

Be well,

Mike D.



Hi All,

I found this http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2006-09-0920-004.shtml
today and it found this http://www.silverfacts.com/

Any comments?

Trem


[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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RE: CS>Re: better generator?

This is why I initially said that you probably won't have any better
experience 
with any other CS generator.  I stand by my analysis of the situation.

Let's see if I am not right...

Dan


-Original Message-
From: toreadpeoplehealthi...@gmail.com
[mailto:toreadpeoplehealthi...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:34 PM
To: Dan Nave
Cc: angelzi...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: CS>Re: better generator?

Dan,

It is You who are making assumptions based on almost no information from
me.

It is quite arrogant to assume to know what I know and what I don't know
based on my basic posts.  And even more arrogant and narrow minded to
assume to tell me what the problem is without collecting some facts
first.

ALL the parameters you detail below, I AM understanding fully and
clearly. 
Your response is that "stating the obvious" kind, which some list
members warned me of.

I contacted the list only AFTER I had done the process of elimination
myself and AFTER consulting with my local and online friends who have
more years and knowledge regarding CS under their belts.

And I HAVE indeed consulted with Ken many, many times during the time
I've had his Silver Puppy.  And we've together gone through the list of
the "obvious" and the not so obvious parameters several times, to no
avail.  I'm tired of wasting time on trying to fix something that
clearly is NOT fixable and I just want to buy some other product that
WORKS !!

If stating the truth of my personal experience and that truth happens to
be annoying to you and it makes you feel better to call this "slander"
and offer snide remarks instead of an answer to my request  - knock
yourself out !

Perhaps considering being more open minded and less arrogant would help
you be less annoyed.

All I asked on this list of hundreds of CS makers and user was for
recommendations on an effective product OTHER than the Silver Puppy.  I
didn't ask for help in making it work, especially not the help of the
"stating the obvious" kind.

Why is asking for recommendation on other than Ode's product such a
DRAMA here ?  Is it a REQUIREMENT to use LOVE his products (even if they
don't work as they should) if I want to be a member of this list?


Angel




- Original Message -
From: "Dan Nave" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:51 AM
Subject: RE: CS>Re: better generator?


> Angel,
>
> I don't think you really understand the issues involved in making
> colloidal silver and you are making assumptions based on this
> misunderstanding.
>
> Terry makes some good points, although I don't agree 100% with
> everything he said.  If you are "dissolving" your silver electrodes,
> then you are performing the electrolysis process that makes colloidal
> silver.  And, since you seem to have visible reduction in the size of
> your electrodes it seems that you are putting a lot of silver into the
> water.  If this results in 3 to 4 ppm CS I would be very surprised.
>
> The SilverPuppy has an auto-shutoff feature which is calibrated to
shut
> off, not at a particular current, but at a certain voltage appearing
> across the cell which has been selected based on the electrode size
and
> geometry and which correlates to the conductance of the cell.  What
this
> means is that as the electrolysis (making CS) process continues the
> water has more silver ions in it and it conducts electricity more
> easily.  Knowing the fixed conditions of the SilverPuppy electrode
> configuration it can be set to shut down when there are a certain ppm
of
> ions in the cell (has a certain resistance, or inversely,
conductance).
> The shutdown is exact every time but because of the nature of CS
making
> and all the variables of water and contamination the ppm may not be
> exact, but it should be close.  You should make a similar product
every
> time if you use good distilled water and do not contaminate the
> electrodes or jar with anything, by handling or by cleaning processes;
> dirt,  hand acids and oils, soaps, hydrogen peroxide, etc.
>
> If the SilverPuppy auto-shutoff is turning off too soon, you still
have
> the option of running it manually without the shutoff by switching the
> toggle switch (away from the red dot, I think).  This way you can run
> forever, but really, you will never get above a certain percentage of
CS
> ions in the water and you will end up wasting your silver electrodes.
>
> Water quality is important!  You should be using water distilled by a
> steam process.  And, not all distilled water is equal.  Use the best
> water you can find, it will limit the quality of your CS, although
> almost all CS is usable and better than nothing, but we shoot for the
> best, right?
>
> Do not add anything to the CS as a starter, like salt, baking soda,
> honey, etc...  If you have good CS, you can add some of that as a
> starter to speed up the process, but be careful of adding questionable
> CS to the cell as a starter.
>
> Your method of testing for the ppm of the CS may be incorrect.  Y

Re: CS>Silverfacts

2006-09-21 Thread Trem

SilverfactsMe too.

Trem

- Original Message - 
  From: oldgl...@bigcountry.net 
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:04 AM
  Subject: CS>Silverfacts

  Hi Trem,

  Very interesting.  The committee is aptly named CRUSH.  

  Disinformation for those that don't know?

  It convinces me even more, how effective colloidal silver is.

  Jean

  **

Hi All,

I found this http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2006-09-0920-004.shtml 
today and it found this http://www.silverfacts.com/ 

Any comments?

Trem

Re: CS>Silverfacts

There's a marketing spin to some of it, but a decent presentation of 
many points. Obviously offers Invision's product as an archtype and 
discourages home-made preparations, just for two examples of bias.

Their dosing recommendation is very conservative. Using their rule of 
thumb, I'd want to take 12*220/10=264 drops per day of a 10 ppm 
product, which is about 13 milliliters, or less than a tablespoon.

They didn't mention anything about selenium or vitamin E 
supplementation as part of avoiding argyria.

I hope 'CRUSH' isn't intended to apply solely to their commercial 
competition. It's hard to know.

Be well,

Mike D.


> Hi All,
> 
> I found this http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2006-09-0920-004.shtml
> today and it found this http://www.silverfacts.com/ 
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Trem 

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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RE: CS>Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease or COPD

From: geop...@aol.com [mailto:geop...@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:45 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease or COPD

i stopped at our local pathmark, to pick up some cream of tartar to
try,, found it in the spice aisle, in an tiny jar, (maybe 2 or 3
teaspoon jar),, for about 5 dollars,, is this the same stuff, if so this
would be quite costly,, ,, and yes i know , if it works , it would be so
cheap in the long run,, just want to make sure i am getting the right
stuff,,, because, i also seen cream of tartar, in the mayonaise aisle ,
for a fraction of the cost. thanks to all, geo.  

http://www.ochef.com/933.htm

http://www.kalyx.com/store/prodpage.cfm

http://www.kalyx.com/store/proddetail.cfm/ItemID/319259.0/CategoryID/125
00.0/SubCatID/30.0/file.htm

$11.58 per pound

 Q. Please tell me what cream of tartar is and where I can find it? 

A. Cream of tartar is is the common name for potassium hydrogen
tartrate, an acid salt that has a number of uses in cooking. Now, before
you get all jittery about the thought of cooking with an acid, it's
worth noting that milk, brown sugar, steak, plums, and just about every
other food we eat is acidic. In fact, egg whites and baking soda are the
only non-acidic (alkaline) foods we have. 

Cream of tartar is obtained when tartaric acid is half neutralized with
potassium hydroxide, transforming it into a salt. Grapes are the only
significant natural source of tartaric acid, and cream of tartar is a
obtained from sediment produced in the process of making wine. (The
journal Nature reported some years ago that traces of calcium tartrate
found in a pottery jar in the ruins of a village in northern Iran are
evidence that wine was being made more than 7,000 years ago.) 

Cream of tartar is best known in our kitchens for helping stabilize and
give more volume to beaten egg whites. It is the acidic ingredient in
some brands of baking powder. It is also used to produce a creamier
texture in sugary desserts such as candy and frosting. It is used
commercially in some soft drinks, candies, bakery products, gelatin
desserts, and photography products. Cream of tartar can also be used to
clean brass and copper cookware. 

If you are beating eggs whites and don't have cream of tartar, you can
substitute white vinegar (in the same ratio as cream of tartar,
generally 1/8 teaspoon per egg white). It is a little more problematic
to find a substitute for cream of tartar in baking projects. White
vinegar or lemon juice, in the ratio of 3 times the amount of cream of
tartar called for, will provide the right amount of acid for most
recipes. But that amount of liquid may cause other problems in the
recipe, and bakers have found that cakes made with vinegar or lemon
juice have a coarser grain and are more prone to shrinking than those
made with cream of tartar. 

Now, if they were making cream of tarter 7,000 years ago in Iran (or at
least if cream of tartar was making itself), don't you think you can
find the small plastic or glass bottles it comes in among the hundreds
of other small jars and bottles in the spice section of your grocery
store? Or you can get modest
  or huge
  quantities of it online.

RE: CS>WAR ON PLASTIC: Rejecting the toxic plague

2006-09-21 Thread Wendy

Sorry for the confusion.. I'm not in practice, this was forwarded to me
from our ND/homeopath/chiropractor.
 
 
Wendy
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Teri Johnston [mailto:t...@welshspringers.com] 
Sent: September 21, 2006 12:13 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>WAR ON PLASTIC: Rejecting the toxic plague
 
Wendy,

I've had terrible reactions to any plastic/teflon etc when it gets
inside of me (IV catheter) contact lens, plastic dust you name it.  Hard
to avoid it these days.   What kinds of reactions are you seeing in your
patients.

Teri 

At 10:51 AM 9/21/2006, you wrote:




This was sent to me from our Naturopath:

http://www.culturechange.org/e-letter-plastics.html

In our ever increasing toxic world the above web site has identified a
major problem that I am seeing in more patients every day. PLASTICS are
Dangerous! Plastics are responsible for most of the increases in
serious diseases.
By drawing your attention to this we all can become part of a solution
rather than accept disaster without a fight.




--
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CS>Silverfacts

2006-09-21 Thread oldgl...@bigcountry.net

Hi Trem,

Very interesting.  The committee is aptly named CRUSH.

Disinformation for those that don't know?

It convinces me even more, how effective colloidal silver is.

Jean

**

> Hi All,
>  
> I found this http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2006-09-0920-004.shtml today
> and it found this http://www.silverfacts.com/
>  
> Any comments?
>  
> Trem 
>

CS>Silverfacts

2006-09-21 Thread Trem

Hi All,

I found this http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2006-09-0920-004.shtml today 
and it found this http://www.silverfacts.com/ 

Any comments?

Trem

Re: CS>WAR ON PLASTIC: Rejecting the toxic plague

2006-09-21 Thread Teri Johnston


Wendy,

I've had terrible reactions to any plastic/teflon etc when it gets 
inside of me (IV catheter) contact lens, plastic dust you name 
it.  Hard to avoid it these days.   What kinds of reactions are you 
seeing in your patients.


Teri

At 10:51 AM 9/21/2006, you wrote:



This was sent to me from our Naturopath:

http://www.culturechange.org/e-letter-plastics.html

In our ever increasing toxic world the above web site has identified a
major problem that I am seeing in more patients every day. PLASTICS are
Dangerous! Plastics are responsible for most of the increases in
serious diseases.
By drawing your attention to this we all can become part of a solution
rather than accept disaster without a fight.




--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.

Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com

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RE: CS>Simple Generator, ONE more component

 Morning Wayne,  ;-))

Looks like you have some pretty complex equipment/programs.  
Oh well, you know them inside out and I'm sure that you can
modify them to do whatever you want.  

Servicing factory equipment is a daunting task.  I have found that 
usually the prints and documentation are scanty at best, and some 
genius has usually made extensive modifications and felt it was 
OK to not make any drawings of what they did...  I always admire 
someone who can work on these sorts of things.  My short-term 
memory was never good enough for this sort of thing.

However, I have found that the electronic technician is a dying
profession.  
Engineers will design and most everything a technician did can 
be done by the engineer on a computer, the boards will come directly 
from the board manufacturer, and defective products will be thrown 
away and just replaced instead of being repaired by a technician... ;-((

Ole Bob said you could run an unregulated voltage supply without 
controls and stop when the current reached a particular level.  I have 
found that this makes me stop before I reach the concentration I want 
because I end up having too much current density for my electrodes.  
I wonder if this works if you use a large anode and a small cathode as 
he was recommending, someone said that this effectively limited the
current.

My auto-shutoff is set to trip at a particular voltage level.  Since the
system 
is set up to regulate the max current, when it reaches this current
limit level the 
power supply will reduce the voltage in order to maintain that current.
Since 
the resistance of the water is continually decreasing, the voltage will
be 
continually reduced (automatically) in order to maintain the constant
current level.
For this reason, when a particular voltage level is reached, the
generator is shut down.
This voltage level relates to a particular resistance, or conductance,
of the water 
and hence is related to the ppm of the colloidal silver.  It's not
exact, but close enough 
and repeatable if the conditions of the generator and cell are kept
constant.

I'm adding extra detail in some of these posts, not because I think you
need them, 
(so don't take offense ;-)) but because someone else might be able to
pick up what 
they need from the discussion.  

Yes, with a small amount of knowledge a creative person can do many
things.  
Usually it is just a matter of getting the right perspective or *feel*
of how things operate.  

Dan

-Original Message-
From: Wayne Fugitt [mailto:cwfug...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 2:29 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: CS>Simple Generator, ONE more component

Evening Dan,

 >> At 12:47 PM 9/20/2006, you wrote:

   Thanks for the comments.

>I recently made a "fancy" homemade CS maker with adjustable current 
>regulation and adjustable auto-shutoff.
I have thought about the "Adjustable Shutoff" feature.

I suppose all technicians have thought about building a sophisticated
system.   I know I have thought about it but never got the start
impulse.

I would favor using my control and data logging system.  It has most of
the components needed including analog inputs, digital inputs, and event
counters as well as pH meters and EC meters.  Most of these are in need
of calibration which is  not so hard when we have full control of the
software.

I have a configuration file that has individual fields for correction
factors.  I even provided for multiply scale factors and divide scale
factors.
Next I added a line or two of code that checks each. If both are zero,
the program will not run.  If no change is needed on the data, a simple
ONE input into the field will leave it unchanged and let the program
run.
Dividing by zero is a hard task for most processors.

>Auto-shutoff is really great, especially when making CS more often or 
>in large quantities which takes more time.

This would be very easy on a computer controlled system.
You could change most any data value within a few seconds due to the
configuration file. One could have multiple configuration files stored
in another directory and copy the one needed into the program directory.
I wrote a special edit program for the configuration file.  Typically I
can edit this while the program is running and copy it into the program
directory and the program never has to be stopped to change any
configuration.

>  One really appreciates the
>convenience of  being able to leave the setup alone to finish on it's
>own.   Having the ability to vary current and shut-off level allows one
>to do so much more with various electrode and cell geometry.

I understand.  That part would be fun with the computer controlled
stuff, yet very simple.

Usually what I do when I want a new application for my program is to
simply make a new copy, then start to take a few things out and add a 
few lines here and there.   This is a 10,000 line C program I worked 
on over a 5 year period.   The data l

CS>WAR ON PLASTIC: Rejecting the toxic plague

2006-09-21 Thread Wendy


This was sent to me from our Naturopath:

http://www.culturechange.org/e-letter-plastics.html

In our ever increasing toxic world the above web site has identified a
major problem that I am seeing in more patients every day. PLASTICS are
Dangerous! Plastics are responsible for most of the increases in
serious diseases.
By drawing your attention to this we all can become part of a solution
rather than accept disaster without a fight.




--
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Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

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List maintainer: Mike Devour

Re: CS>Re: silver-digest Digest V2006 #629

2006-09-21 Thread Marshall Dudley

It is a white powder that is used in cooking and added to such things a
meringue. It is found in the spice section of a supermarket.

Marshall

Richard wrote:

> what is tartar and where can you get it - thanks -RichardOn
> 20/09/2006, at 16:49, Staya Udanvti Bob Butler wrote:
>
>>
>> Stop Smoking
>> 1/2 teaspoon cream of tartar
>> 8 oz. orange juice
>>
>> Mix cream of tartar and orange juice
>> Every night drink at bedtime
>> Next morning nicotine comes out in your urine
>> Next day you will smoke fewer cigarettes
>> By the end of the month you will be down to nothing
>>
>> Some people it only takes 10-15 days
>> Others it takes 30 days,  it is according to how many cigarettes you
>> smoke the
>> more you smoke the longer it will take.
>>
>> Cheap and is very easy and it works.
>>
>> Love
>> Bob
>> Adageyudi
>> Staya Udanvti
>>
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From:meeja...@aol.com
>>  To:silver-list@eskimo.com
>>  Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:09 AM
>>  Subject: CS>Re: silver-digest Digest V2006 #629
>>
>>  Bob,how much creme of tartar do u put in the juice?
>>
>>



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CS>Sorry, testing