Re: [SLUG] Ubuntu Flight 5 - blank screen

[David]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 05:46:00PM +1100, Bruce Badger wrote:
> In trying to solve a problem with recording sound using the built in
> mic on my Thinkpad T21, I thought I'd give the latest "flight" of
> Ubuntu a try.
> 
> I burned the Flight 5 Ubuntu CD and went through the install to the
> point where the CD was ejected and the system rebooted.  Everything
> seemed OK up to that point.
> 
> When the system rebooted, I saw the graphical boot stuff with the
> messages scrolling on the brown screen under the Ubuntu logo.  Then
> the screen went blank except for a non-blinking cursor in the top left
> of the screen, then I heard the tom-tom drum sound that usually
> accompanies the opening of the logon screen ... and that's it.
> 
> The system hung with the blank screen there and nothing else
> happening.  The system responds to pings, but does not visibly respond
> to any keyboard input (e.g. trying to select other ttys).
> 
> Help/guidance would be much appreciated.

This probably won't help, but

I came back to Ubuntu 5.10 to find the X-server crashed with the following
console message:

_
   *** If unresolved symbols were reported above, they might not
   *** be the reason for the server aborting.

Fatal server error:
Caught signal 11.  Server aborting


Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support
 at http://wiki.X.Org
 for help.
Please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for additional 
information.

xinit:  connection to X server lost.
xauth:  /home/david/.Xauthority not writable, changes will be ignored
_

Which was repeated verbatim in the logs :(

I switched to consoles 2, 3 and then 7 (!) and then system lost contact with the
monitor completely - no screen and no way of knowing if i had keyboard.

To solve it, I ssh'd in and rebooted. It's been fine since.

I'm not sure that it helps you, but the symptoms are similar.

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Re: [SLUG] Ubuntu Flight 5 - blank screen

[Peter Hardy]

On Sat, 2006-03-25 at 17:46 +1100, Bruce Badger wrote:
> When the system rebooted, I saw the graphical boot stuff with the
> messages scrolling on the brown screen under the Ubuntu logo.  Then
> the screen went blank except for a non-blinking cursor in the top left
> of the screen, then I heard the tom-tom drum sound that usually
> accompanies the opening of the logon screen ... and that's it.
> 
> The system hung with the blank screen there and nothing else
> happening.  The system responds to pings, but does not visibly respond
> to any keyboard input (e.g. trying to select other ttys).

Don't suppose you have an ATI video card? I upgraded to dapper and got
much the same problem with my ATI mobility X300. I fixed it by rebooting
in single user mode and switching X to use the fglrx (non free) driver;
- apt-get install xorg-driver-fglrx
- edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf , and in the Device section for the video
card, change the Driver line from
Driver  "ati"
to
Driver  "fglrx"

And then reboot.

-- 
Pete

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Re: FW: [SLUG] Fedora Core 5

[telford]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 04:33:41PM +1100, Jamie Wilkinson wrote:
> 
> SNUH.  SLUG's Not Usenet.

I hope not, because Usenet is pretty much dead after the spammers trashed it.
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Re: [SLUG] /bin/install

[Erik de Castro Lopo]

Alan L Tyree wrote:

> I am trying to compile a program that complains about /bin/install
> being missing. Is this a standard program? I'm running Ubuntu Breezy.

The command 'dpkg -S' tells me its in the coreutils package:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] > dpkg -S /usr/bin/install
coreutils: /usr/bin/install

Erik
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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[O Plameras]

James Purser wrote:


This is my last post to you on this matter. In keeping with the
traditions of Usenet (as you wish we would) I shall now call you a nazi
and invoke Godwins law.
 

This is a joke ?  I  do not know where you got that idea unless you're 
out of your mind.


O Plameras
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[SLUG] Ubuntu Flight 5 - blank screen

[Bruce Badger]

In trying to solve a problem with recording sound using the built in
mic on my Thinkpad T21, I thought I'd give the latest "flight" of
Ubuntu a try.

I burned the Flight 5 Ubuntu CD and went through the install to the
point where the CD was ejected and the system rebooted.  Everything
seemed OK up to that point.

When the system rebooted, I saw the graphical boot stuff with the
messages scrolling on the brown screen under the Ubuntu logo.  Then
the screen went blank except for a non-blinking cursor in the top left
of the screen, then I heard the tom-tom drum sound that usually
accompanies the opening of the logon screen ... and that's it.

The system hung with the blank screen there and nothing else
happening.  The system responds to pings, but does not visibly respond
to any keyboard input (e.g. trying to select other ttys).

Help/guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Bruce
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Re: [SLUG] Interesting view (Printer Compatibility)

[telford]

On Fri, Mar 24, 2006 at 09:49:19AM +1100, Benno wrote:
> 
> But still at the end of the day your general consumer (i.e: target of 
> the desktop), doesn't know, or want to know, and often will just take 
> whatever the sales droid at the local Hardly Normal tells them, which is 
> most likely going to be whatever product has the biggest margin
> (or has an associated  salesperson competition), which makes our job
> as advocates of desktop Linux harder.

This is true. Consider that if making a "Linux desktop" means being able
to turn the marketing blather of the local "Hardly Normal sales droid"
into working reality for a brain dead consumer, then we won't be able
to do it. It just is not possible. Microsoft won't do it, they have
no more ability to achieve this impossible goal than we do, they just
crank out more misinformation until people believe what they are told.

My daughter bought a web-cam recently with her birthday money.
Of course, she insists on running a MS-Windows system (just to piss me
off), of course she just plugs the thing in and cranks the installer
and (big surprise to her, not a surprise to me) the thing doesn't work.
It produces a few pictures but is not compatible with other applications
that she wants to use. Of course she wants me to fix it for her,
and I tell her, "too bad, you have been ripped off".

I've seen Sony shrug and ignore the fact that the video drivers on
some of their laptops (in particular, the Vaio PCG-K74 with ATI Radeon)
are incompatible with many popular games (I'm talking about MS-Windows
games running on the factory installed Windows-XP system).
They can't even be bothered issuing driver upgrades on their website.
True, this is one of their budget models but that's no excuse for
treating your customers like dirt. The fact is that things in the
Microsoft world do NOT JUST WORK, they have problems all over the place
and require extensive support effort to get a system that consistently
does its job.

I believe that the Linux community will be far better off in the long
term if they take the trouble to clearly and explicitly write off
compatibility with all the junk devices and explain in big letters,
"NO these devices are not supported, don't buy them, don't use them".
Trying to halfway support devices that randomly fail and then pretend
that you have achieved compatibility is the worst of all worlds.

- Tel
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Re: [SLUG] /bin/install

[Alan L Tyree]

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 17:04:43 +1100
Matthew Hannigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 05:00:11PM +1100, Alan L Tyree wrote:
> > I am trying to compile a program that complains about /bin/install
> > being missing. Is this a standard program? I'm running Ubuntu
> > Breezy.
> 
> It's /usr/bin/install on my machine (fedora)

Spot on! Thanks for that.

> 
> It's pretty standard.  If the system doesn't have it,
> packages distribute their own as part of autoconf/configure.
> 
> Matt
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [SLUG] /bin/install

[Matthew Hannigan]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 05:00:11PM +1100, Alan L Tyree wrote:
> I am trying to compile a program that complains about /bin/install
> being missing. Is this a standard program? I'm running Ubuntu Breezy.

It's /usr/bin/install on my machine (fedora)

It's pretty standard.  If the system doesn't have it,
packages distribute their own as part of autoconf/configure.

Matt


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[SLUG] /bin/install

[Alan L Tyree]

I am trying to compile a program that complains about /bin/install
being missing. Is this a standard program? I'm running Ubuntu Breezy.

Thanks for any help (even if it is only RTFM!!)

Cheers,
Alan

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[SLUG] WOW

[Derik Gillespie]

You have got to look at this. Its outstanding.   Its a major new business.=


http://www.legalrevenueservice.com

Greta   

Want to not receive info in the future?  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[James Purser]

On Sat, 2006-03-25 at 15:21 +1100, O Plameras wrote:
> 2. USENET accepted it even before Linux and still accepts it.
> Linux inherits the traditions and legacies of USENET.

Good for usenet. Usenet also accepts naked pictures, stories about sex
and illegal software, should the SLUG list do this as well?

> 5.  Wikipedia and over 5million articles say RTFM is OK.

You have personally checked all 5 million articles?

> 6.  Other people on this list don't mind RTM.

Good for them.

> 7. Linux is promoting open and unhindered discussions
> including the use of validated and accepted tools over
> the years. RTFM is validated and accepted tool originally
> used in USENET and other lists services.

Mate, Linux is a kernel. The community that has built up around the
kernel are a collection of hard core coders. The SLUG list has to cater
for a wide range of people, from complete novices and up.

> > * Yes, it is, and here's why: [...]
> >  
> >
> 1. RTFM word itself is rude.

In the context it was used, yes it was.

> 2. Because J. Waugh speaks for others

I am perfectly capable of speaking for myself, and in fact have done, as
have others.

> 4. Slug Committee sides with J. Waugh

If you don't like this, stand for the committee and ask the membership
to make a choice. Participatory democracy is a wonderful thing.

> 5. Other people on this list don't like RTFM.
> 6.  Three posters made abusive language.
> 
> > * 
> >
> >This isn't censorship. There haven't been (many) personal attacks until much
> >later in the thread. This isn't fascism. 
> >

Frankly much of what you have written seems either designed to provoke a
reaction (troll type behaviour) or further a vendetta you seem to have
against Jeff and others on this list. But then again, that is also
standard Usenet behaviour so at least you are being consistent.

> Behavioural standards are developed over many years. RTFM had a rough
> time but this is in the past. As pointed out RTFM has become an accepted 
> tool
> not only in the original USENET groups but it is now used by technical and
> professional groups including other list groups that are truly open and
> freedom loving. I sometimes here people say the word RTFM in functions
> and gatherings of the non-technical nature. This shows that we continously
> evolve as social beings and not rigid minded societies.

Let me reiterate a point that has been made over and over again. SLUG is
not Usenet. Much as Australian society as changed dramatically from the
original protestant english culture at the foundation of the colony of
New South Wales. SLUG has evolved to match its own unique requirements.
Whoa societal evolution in action, who'd a thunk it.

> The behavioural standards favoured by GPL loving people is much toward
> the open, accepting of diverse attitudes and opinions, tolerant, and not
> hindering and restricting especially when the point under discussion is a
> validated and accepted tool of the trades.
> 
> If you are not one of them, you are just a pretend GPL loving person.

This is something you seem to share with our MIT friend. GPL is not a
religion, nor is it a document on which to base one's life philosophy.
It's a software license and as such as as much impact as the law gives
it.

This is my last post to you on this matter. In keeping with the
traditions of Usenet (as you wish we would) I shall now call you a nazi
and invoke Godwins law.
-- 
James Purser
Producer/Presenter - Linux Australia Update
http://k-sit.com - My Blog
http://la-pod.k-sit.com - Linux Australia Update Podcast,Blog and Forums
Skype: purserj1977
SIP: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[Erik de Castro Lopo]

O Plameras wrote:



Oscar, I no longer wish to read any emails from you to this
list. I am therefore taking steps so that I don't have to.
If anyone else feels this way I encourage them to do the same.

I will also be taking the same steps for Bret Comstock Waldow.

Regards,
Erik
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Ken Olson, DEC, 1977
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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[O Plameras]

Jeff Waugh wrote:





The discussion we've had so far went like this:

* RTFM
* Please don't use that term, it's inappropriate
* It is not inappropriate
 


some why's given from the postings, as I can summarise them:

1. RTFM was used in the appropriate context. The target person
   appears to me seasoned Linux/Unix user. (Ref slug-archives)
   Reference to www.openssl.org  was posted.
2. USENET accepted it even before Linux and still accepts it.
   Linux inherits the traditions and legacies of USENET.
3.  Technical and professional groups use it.
4.  At no time did the poster made any abusive language.
5.  Wikipedia and over 5million articles say RTFM is OK.
6.  Other people on this list don't mind RTM.
7.  Linux is GPL and SLUG promotes Linux (and all ideals that it stands 
for).

7. Linux is promoting open and unhindered discussions
   including the use of validated and accepted tools over
   the years. RTFM is validated and accepted tool originally
   used in USENET and other lists services.


* Yes, it is, and here's why: [...]
 


1. RTFM word itself is rude.
2. Because J. Waugh speaks for others
3. On this list RTFM is ugly.
4. Slug Committee sides with J. Waugh
5. Other people on this list don't like RTFM.
6.  Three posters made abusive language.


* 

This isn't censorship. There haven't been (many) personal attacks until much
later in the thread. This isn't fascism. 


Fascism is controlling what should groups of people (as against individuals)
do, think, behave, say, etc by individuals and it followers. Originally, 
surfaced

in Italy under the infamous Benito Mussolini. Then it also surfaced in Nazi
Germany but I don't know (I don't read history too much) who imitated or
copied from whom.


If people can't accept behavioural
standards in a group like this (especially after arguing about it and having
to hear other people supporting it), perhaps they should find another group.
 


Behavioural standards are developed over many years. RTFM had a rough
time but this is in the past. As pointed out RTFM has become an accepted 
tool

not only in the original USENET groups but it is now used by technical and
professional groups including other list groups that are truly open and
freedom loving. I sometimes here people say the word RTFM in functions
and gatherings of the non-technical nature. This shows that we continously
evolve as social beings and not rigid minded societies.

The behavioural standards favoured by GPL loving people is much toward
the open, accepting of diverse attitudes and opinions, tolerant, and not
hindering and restricting especially when the point under discussion is a
validated and accepted tool of the trades.

If you are not one of them, you are just a pretend GPL loving person.

O Plameras


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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[Bret Comstock Waldow]

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 22:43, James Purser wrote:

> 

"useless" and "drivel", eh?  Thanks for that opinion.

When I last lived in Sydney, I shared a house with several other fellows.  We 
got on well for several months, although this one who arrived after me had 
rather poor manners - he was the center of his universe.

And then I found out he and another fellow were using speed - 
methamphetamines.

At the same time there were several stories in the news about how drive-by 
shootings among some drug gangs had caught some bystanders as well.

Why were those gangs shooting at each other?  Money.  If it wasn't for the 
money to be had, they wouldn't be competing for the market.

So, those two people in that house were paying others to shoot at each other, 
and hit bystanders instead.  No money, no shooting.

Just because they only thought of themselves, that doesn't change the effect.  
The link is real.  No money, no shooting.

Why do you think MS is still around?  They are convicted now in several 
countries of cheating and breaking the law.  Do you think they do it out of 
altruism?

It's the money.  If people don't give them money, they will go away.

If MS goes away, there will be a HUGE effect on Linux, and the Unixes, and 
Apple, etc.

And if people took into account the effect of their spending on their 
neighbors in their community, there would be a huge effect on Linux, the 
Unixes, and Apple, etc.  I won't pay money to criminals - they just keep 
coming back.

So, it's "useless", and "drivel", eh?  Nasty words.  How do you reckon so?

Since you passed that judgement on me, perhaps you'd care to justify those 
words?  In public, where you wrote them.  If you've thought it through, and 
are correct, it should be easy to write it down where we can all decide what 
we think of your argument ourselves.

Regards anyway,
Bret


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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[Bret Comstock Waldow]

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 01:25, Jeff Waugh wrote:

> This isn't censorship.

I'm surprised you don't think telling people what they can and can't say is 
censorship.

Telling people what they can and can't say is censorship.  It isn't censorship 
because you do or don't have a "good" motivation, it's censorship because it 
involves telling others what not to say.

Doing it under the mantle of a Linux User's Group associates Linux with that 
censorship.  And you are claiming you are doing this for the sake of the LUG.  
That caught my attention - is that attempted censorship really in line with 
Linux's intent?

In the news here is a report of a student commiting suicide because she was 
hounded with txt messages from bullies - do you mean to suggest all the 
messages saying "don't say RTFM" aren't intended to have some effect?

Telling people not to say something is, at least attempted, censorship.  The 
word means what it means.

I don't question the positivity of your desire to help newbies, and I can 
understand wanting to promote a particular atmosphere to foster that.

You are claiming that you represent Linux, that you promote it (this is a 
LUG), and you are also using that as the basis for a claim that you can tell 
people what they can and can't say.  You have your arguments, having to do 
with your ideas about how newbies should and shouldn't be supported.

You say you are doing this because it helps promote Linux with newbies.

I'm not so certain that the end justifies the means, here.  I can think of 
many ways to deal with comforting newbies that don't include telling others 
what they can and can't say.  Perhaps you can't, but I'm not sure that's 
really a good reason to tell other people how to represent themselves.

Perhaps if you are uncomfortable with what someone else says it should be on 
you to do the extra work of balancing that to achieve the outcome you want.  
Then it's all voluntary, on your part and on the (hypothetical) newbie's if 
they want you to balance things for them.  If you want something, maybe you 
should be the one that changes what he's doing?  That's not what you are 
proposing, though.

That's what I'm curious about.  I like it when people back what they say, so I 
notice such things, and I think about them.

I see Linux as being about removing limits, not imposing them.  Linux is about 
volunteers., about the freedom to do things, try things, change things  I 
don't see your choice as promoting Linux.  I do see it being about imposing 
the consequences of your limits on others.

I have no problem using RTFM in a conversation, even with a newbie, even with 
my parents (who I support remotely - my father didn't finish High School, and 
he's beginning to diagnose Linux problems on his own).

I can handle RTFM, and explaining RTFM, in a way that makes people laugh, even 
when someone else has said it.  You can't do that?  Instead of telling others 
they can't say something?

Are you sure?

Regards,
Bret


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[SLUG] Re: System Boot failure - SOLVED

[bill]

Thanks for the reply Ken.

Had only just solved it myself.

Checked /etc/init.d/rc5.d and found that symlink to Samba script and 
following symlink to kdm script had both been given a "99" priority. 
Removed @99samba and laptop booted ok.


Thanks

Bill

>Suddenly my Kanotix 2005-4 (Debian) hdd install hangs on boot.
>>
>> It gets to Starting the nmb and smb daemons and then hangs trying to
>> load whatever is next ( kdm I think).
>>
>> It may have something to do with my failed attempt at installing the 
ATI

>> driver for my  Radeon 9200SE card.
>>
>> I can access the system OK by booting the Kanotix LiveCD but don't know
>> which file needs to be edited to fix my problem.


>See if multiple terminals are set up.  ctrl-alt-F1 should switch
>screens, if it does you can sign onto a text based system and try and
>figure out the problem

-- Ken Foskey FOSS developer
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Re: [SLUG] SSL Certificates - A Scum ?

[Matthew Hannigan]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 10:22:34AM +1100, Philip Greggs wrote:
> I'm sick and exhausted. For one and
> only one reason.
> 
> I'm paying thousands of dollars for
> the damn ssl certificates.
> 
> Can some one in plain English explain
> to me why should I pay that much
> money and what am I paying for exactly?
> 
> That some company says - yes
> he is who he says he is?
> 
> Common, this is total scam :)
> No?

Not total, but it's non-perfect situation to be sure!

What you're paying for is a cert for which the cert authority
cert is included in most browsers.

But check it out sometime; I mean do you trust GoDaddy?
(answer: you do, whether you think you do or not;
even if you have never heard of them)

Depending on who your clients are, I think you can
quite easily get awway with not having a root trusted
cert - and many do.

Trouble is, if people get in the habit of accepting
non-standard certs, it erodes the whole point of ssl.

Otherwise, go through the companies listed in the certs
builtin to your browser and find the cheapest!

Matt


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Re: [SLUG] SSL Certificates - A Scum ?

[Howard Lowndes]

This might help
http://www.openca.org/

Philip Greggs wrote:

I'm sick and exhausted. For one and
only one reason.

I'm paying thousands of dollars for
the damn ssl certificates.

Can some one in plain English explain
to me why should I pay that much
money and what am I paying for exactly?

That some company says - yes
he is who he says he is?

Common, this is total scam :)
No?

PG


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Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people 
When you want a computer system that works, just choose Linux;
When you want a computer system that works, just, choose Microsoft.
--
Flatter government, not fatter government; abolish the Australian states.

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Re: [SLUG] Upgrading Xen & Fedora Core 5

[Howard Lowndes]

O Plameras wrote:

Howard Lowndes wrote:


Has anyone any thoughts on this.

Guests first or host first?



You have to supply us with some details, like:

1. What did you use to compile... Did you use
the .gz distribution ? or SRC.RPM distribution ?


They're all RPMs - standard with FC



2. What errors and/or warnings did you get ?


None.  I'm asking what ppls opinions are as to the best way of going 
about an upgrade.




3. In situations like this, I'd use SRC.RPM.
As you know, it remembers what scripts,
patches, changes, headers, etc. you use in
compiling. And then just tweak one or the
other. Or revert quickly if there are problems.

Hope this helps.

O Plameras



--
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people 
When you want a computer system that works, just choose Linux;
When you want a computer system that works, just, choose Microsoft.
--
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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[jam]

On Friday 24 March 2006 21:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The discussion we've had so far went like this:
>
>  * RTFM
>  * Please don't use that term, it's inappropriate
>  * It is not inappropriate
>  * Yes, it is, and here's why: [...]
>  * 

And in the meltdown everyone seems to ignore the  or  usage. It's 
not the WORD it is the context. eg

What you seek is http://here where it says bla, also http://there where they 
say blabla and a whole pile at http://overthere but you'll need to RFM.

James 
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Re: [SLUG] Open Networks iConnectAccess621 under Linux

[jam]

On Friday 24 March 2006 21:25, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Tom Massey wrote:
> > > Morning,
> > >
> > > Does anybody have any information about whether this ADSL router works
> > > with Linux? From my reading, it seems that it would work fine, just
> > > plug into the Ethernet port and use the web interface to configure
> > > rather than the Windows software, but I don't know enough about the
> > > beasts to be sure.
> >
> > Never heard of this hardware. But any thing with a web interface is
> > usually Linux friendly.
>
> The Web interface in my old D-Link DSL-302G ADSL modem/router only works
> with IE. All other Web browsers get a blank page or fail to authenticate
> properly. I have no idea how they managed to pull that off - it feels
> almost deliberate. To change the settings, I had to either reboot to
> Windows (which I am loathe to do) or run IE through WINE. I was able to
> duplicate this behaviour on several units. D-Link assured me that the modem
> is OS independent, but despite my complaining they never fixed this issue.
>
> For this reason and a few others (for one, their support is appalling), I
> have sworn never to purchase a D-Link product ever again. Companies who
> don't treat their customers with respect deserve no respect from me.

Or tell konqueror to say it's IE under Xp (most others also do this, konqueror 
is particularly easy)
An ethernet router does not care about the computer on its network. So linux 
is irrelevant. It works.
James
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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[Ken Foskey]

On Fri, 2006-03-24 at 10:04 +1200, Bret Comstock Waldow wrote:

> When this group decided to advertise itself as a Linux user's group.  Linux 
> is 
> GPL, not Open Source.  Open Source allows restriction, GPL works decidedly 
> against restriction - they are aligned by accident in some ways, and 
> diametrically opposed in others.

While I understand the difference I don't want to confuse others and I
definitely would hate SLUG to start down this track.  SLUG, in my mind,
is about supporting Open Source software, regardless of license.

We support SSH queries all the time, and guess what it is BSD license.
Often these queries are about connecting to and from other platforms
than Linux.

I am happy to educate Programmers on the subtle difference but seriously
a Linux user should not have care about the subtleties of licensing.

-- 
Ken Foskey
FOSS developer

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Re: [SLUG] System Boot failure.

[Ken Foskey]

On Fri, 2006-03-24 at 19:01 +1100, bill wrote:
> Suddenly my Kanotix 2005-4 (Debian) hdd install hangs on boot.
> 
> It gets to Starting the nmb and smb daemons and then hangs trying to 
> load whatever is next ( kdm I think).
> 
> It may have something to do with my failed attempt at installing the ATI 
> driver for my  Radeon 9200SE card.
> 
> I can access the system OK by booting the Kanotix LiveCD but don't know 
> which file needs to be edited to fix my problem.

See if multiple terminals are set up.  ctrl-alt-F1 should switch
screens, if it does you can sign onto a text based system and try and
figure out the problem

-- 
Ken Foskey
FOSS developer

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[SLUG] SSL Certificates - A Scum ?

[Philip Greggs]

I'm sick and exhausted. For one and
only one reason.

I'm paying thousands of dollars for
the damn ssl certificates.

Can some one in plain English explain
to me why should I pay that much
money and what am I paying for exactly?

That some company says - yes
he is who he says he is?

Common, this is total scam :)
No?

PG
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Re: [SLUG] Open Networks iConnectAccess621 under Linux

[Simon Males]

The Web interface in my old D-Link DSL-302G ADSL modem/router only works with 
IE. All other Web browsers get a blank page or fail to authenticate properly. 
I have no idea how they managed to pull that off - it feels almost 
deliberate. To change the settings, I had to either reboot to Windows (which 
I am loathe to do) or run IE through WINE. I was able to duplicate this 
behaviour on several units. D-Link assured me that the modem is OS 
independent, but despite my complaining they never fixed this issue.


For this reason and a few others (for one, their support is appalling), I have 
sworn never to purchase a D-Link product ever again. Companies who don't 
treat their customers with respect deserve no respect from me.


I've actually from across a similar situation. The Netcomm NB3 modem web 
page configuration page takes a long time to load in anything other than 
IE. Even for Firefox on Windows.


--
Simon Males <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: [SLUG] Upgrading Xen & Fedora Core 5

[Matthew Hannigan]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2006 at 08:25:47AM +1100, Howard Lowndes wrote:
> Has anyone any thoughts on this.
> 
> Guests first or host first?

Shrug, host first I guess


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Re: [SLUG] Upgrading Xen & Fedora Core 5

[O Plameras]

O Plameras wrote:


Howard Lowndes wrote:


Has anyone any thoughts on this.

Guests first or host first?



You have to supply us with some details, like:

1. What did you use to compile... Did you use
the .gz distribution ? or SRC.RPM distribution ?

2. What errors and/or warnings did you get ?

3. In situations like this, I'd use SRC.RPM.
As you know, it remembers what scripts,
patches, changes, headers, etc. you use in
compiling. And then just tweak one or the
other. Or revert quickly if there are problems.



My apologies, Howard. This post is intended as a reply
to your wlan-linux-ng post.

On this subject of Upgrading Fedora Core 5, I take it
to mean upgrading from, say, Fedora Core 4.

I've been working on this and spent some hours
figuring out how to.  I'm currently running my latest
script to test.

Will let you know offline if you wish to know about the
results of this latest test. Just drop me ack offline.

O Plameras
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Re: [SLUG] Upgrading Xen & Fedora Core 5

[O Plameras]

Howard Lowndes wrote:


Has anyone any thoughts on this.

Guests first or host first?



You have to supply us with some details, like:

1. What did you use to compile... Did you use
the .gz distribution ? or SRC.RPM distribution ?

2. What errors and/or warnings did you get ?

3. In situations like this, I'd use SRC.RPM.
As you know, it remembers what scripts,
patches, changes, headers, etc. you use in
compiling. And then just tweak one or the
other. Or revert quickly if there are problems.

Hope this helps.

O Plameras
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[SLUG] Upgrading Xen & Fedora Core 5

[Howard Lowndes]

Has anyone any thoughts on this.

Guests first or host first?

--
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people 
When you want a computer system that works, just choose Linux;
When you want a computer system that works, just, choose Microsoft.
--
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[SLUG] wlan-linux-ng & Fedora Core 5

[Howard Lowndes]

Has anyone tried compiling the first under the second.  I tried last 
night and I guess some of the Linux headers have changed - again.


--
Howard.
LANNet Computing Associates - Your Linux people 
When you want a computer system that works, just choose Linux;
When you want a computer system that works, just, choose Microsoft.
--
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[SLUG] About joining your business

[Caroline Harper]

Hi there,

You emailed your business details to me a few
months ago.

Sorry I didn't join then but I am ready again
now.

Would you please send me an email with
details how to join your business? Thanks

Love Caroline

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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[Jeff Waugh]

> Linux came in on the GPL Free Software side - not the Open Source side -
> that's the philosophy and the license chosen.  Linus was not bamboozled
> into this - he's smart and made his choice consciously - and he chose Free
> Software.  He's the founder and the copyright holder - perhaps we know his
> philosophy about Linux from this?

So, you're a little confused by what all of these things mean, and the
motivations of the people involved, and you're trying to apply them to the
current discussion in a philosophical manner which really doesn't fit.

Linus is a very pragmatic guy. The GPL did what he wanted. He's not exactly
the biggest defender of the FSF/RMS moral angle of Free Software. His bio is
called "Just for Fun", because that's what he cares about. All of this is on
the record, well-known stuff.

So how does this apply to SLUG and the accusations of 'censorship' and so
on? I don't think it does. Historically, SLUG members and participants (at
least those who actually go to SLUG meetings) have held the moral values of
Free Software high, but regarded Free Software and Open Source to be two
sides of the same coin. While this is important stuff, I don't think it has
any relevance to any "please just be nice" guidelines for our mailing lists.

The discussion we've had so far went like this:

 * RTFM
 * Please don't use that term, it's inappropriate
 * It is not inappropriate
 * Yes, it is, and here's why: [...]
 * 

This isn't censorship. There haven't been (many) personal attacks until much
later in the thread. This isn't fascism. If people can't accept behavioural
standards in a group like this (especially after arguing about it and having
to hear other people supporting it), perhaps they should find another group.

- Jeff

-- 
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   "Oh my god, if I get killed, Meryl Streep will get an award playing my
  life and I would be really pissed off." - Susan Sarandon
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Re: [SLUG] Open Networks iConnectAccess621 under Linux

[Sridhar Dhanapalan]

On Friday 24 March 2006 22:50, Simon Males <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tom Massey wrote:
> > Morning,
> >
> > Does anybody have any information about whether this ADSL router works
> > with Linux? From my reading, it seems that it would work fine, just plug
> > into the Ethernet port and use the web interface to configure rather
> > than the Windows software, but I don't know enough about the beasts to
> > be sure.
>
> Never heard of this hardware. But any thing with a web interface is
> usually Linux friendly.

The Web interface in my old D-Link DSL-302G ADSL modem/router only works with 
IE. All other Web browsers get a blank page or fail to authenticate properly. 
I have no idea how they managed to pull that off - it feels almost 
deliberate. To change the settings, I had to either reboot to Windows (which 
I am loathe to do) or run IE through WINE. I was able to duplicate this 
behaviour on several units. D-Link assured me that the modem is OS 
independent, but despite my complaining they never fixed this issue.

For this reason and a few others (for one, their support is appalling), I have 
sworn never to purchase a D-Link product ever again. Companies who don't 
treat their customers with respect deserve no respect from me.


-- 
Sridhar Dhanapalan  [Yama | http://www.pclinuxonline.com/]
  {GnuPG/OpenPGP: http://dhanapalan.webhop.net/yama.asc
   0x049D38B4 : A7A9 8A02 78CB AB1B FCE4 EEC6 2DD9 249B 049D 38B4}

"There are a number of significant vulnerabilities in technologies relating to 
the IE domain/zone security model, the DHTML object model, MIME type 
determination, and ActiveX. It is possible to reduce exposure to these 
vulnerabilities by using a different web browser."
- US-CERT Vulnerability Note VU#323070, 2004-04-05


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Re: [SLUG] Open Networks iConnectAccess621 under Linux

[Simon Males]

Tom Massey wrote:

Morning,

Does anybody have any information about whether this ADSL router works
with Linux? From my reading, it seems that it would work fine, just plug
into the Ethernet port and use the web interface to configure rather
than the Windows software, but I don't know enough about the beasts to
be sure.



Never heard of this hardware. But any thing with a web interface is 
usually Linux friendly.


--
Simon Males <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[Tom Massey]

On Fri, 2006-03-24 at 21:46 +1200, Bret Comstock Waldow wrote:

> To be about Linux means to be about Free Software.  If you aren't, leave the 
> name for another group that is - maybe they're willing to back it up.

Linus isn't really a Free Software guy, from what I've read. He's more
Open Source, pragmatic, but seems to prefer to avoid such politics.
So ... the guy who wrote the Linux kernel isn't about Linux?

RMS didn't code the Linux kernel (He certainly did a lot to create the
environment in which it could be coded, and this should be recognised) -
but Linux != Free Software movement.

Tom

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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[Sridhar Dhanapalan]

On Friday 24 March 2006 20:46, Bret Comstock Waldow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Linux is a copyrighted term.  There are licenses and laws that define how
> 'Linux' can be used, and they apply.

"Linux" is a trademark (although I believe it is now a generic term in 
Australia). AFAIK, you can't copyright a single word.

It has become fashionable in some quarters to collectively refer to trademark, 
copyright and patent law as "Intellectual Property" (often abbreviated as 
"IP"). They do so in the hope that muddying the waters surrounding these very 
distinct concepts will confuse ordinary citizens into accepting whatever they 
would like to foist upon us, such as DRM and spurious patents. Unfortunately, 
from what I can see it appears to be working quite well.


-- 
Sridhar Dhanapalan  [Yama | http://www.pclinuxonline.com/]
  {GnuPG/OpenPGP: http://dhanapalan.webhop.net/yama.asc
   0x049D38B4 : A7A9 8A02 78CB AB1B FCE4 EEC6 2DD9 249B 049D 38B4}

"To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up your Windows box, 
you just need to work on it. I know which one I'll trust. How about you?"
- Scott Granneman, senior consultant for Bryan Consulting Inc.,
SecurityFocus, 2003-10-06


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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[James Purser]

On Fri, 2006-03-24 at 21:46 +1200, Bret Comstock Waldow wrote:
> Linux is a copyrighted term.

Quick correction. Linux the kernel is held under copyright. Linux the
name/brand has been declared a generic term in this country and hence
available for anyone to use.

> So what does it mean, that this is a Linux User's Group, and not some other 
> sort of User's Group?

This is a group for Users of Linux who reside or have resided in Sydney.
It also caters to people who happen to use other Free/Open Operating
Systems/Software and  This is not a socio-political experiment in
thought control as you seem to think.

> 
> I'm focused on one aspect particularly, which I realized while considering 
> the 
> RTFM discussion.  Some people have no problem with it.  Others do.  The ones 
> who do aren't just refraining from saying it themselves - they want to impose 
> their view on the others.
> 

No, what we are trying to say is don't be a dick. The whole point behind
the original objection was that the term was unhelpful and rude. There
are much better ways to say "I couldn't be bothered so sod off" without
causing offence or potentially alienating a new community member.

> They aren't just deciding for themselves, they are taking it on themselves to 
> decide for others, and their justification at the root for taking away 
> other's choice includes that this is THE Sydney Linux User's Group.  ("We 
> advocate Linux and spread it's message, and to do this we need to...etc.")

At the moment, this is the only Sydney Linux User Group. There are no
others that I know of.



> Linux is GPL Free Software - it is, read the license.  This group didn't 
> write 
> it, doesn't own it, but you're taking on the name - should you?  Are you 
> really about Linux?

Please explain where the great Linus has come down from on high and
declared in a booming finnish accent "You must not impose rules on one
another, in any circumstances at all if you wish to use my kernel!"
while showering the faithful with code.

I'm sorry, but the rest of your email sounded like a letter to the
heretics, declaring us unclean because we do not adhere to your
particular brand of Free Software Love.

As you can see, I have taken the time to reply to you in full. I have
sent this email only to the list as you have asked. That is because I
believe in helping people. In your case I'm not sure exactly what sort
of help is needed but I am willing to supply it.
-- 
James Purser
Producer/Presenter - Linux Australia Update
http://k-sit.com - My Blog
http://la-pod.k-sit.com - Linux Australia Update Podcast,Blog and Forums
Skype: purserj1977
SIP: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[Shakthi Kannan]

Greetings!

My thoughts below:

--- Bret Comstock Waldow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And I have no problem with this group/mailing list
> enforcing rules for 
> posting,

... we (in ilugc), call it merely guidelines:

http://www.chennailug.org/wiki/List_Guidelines

If you read through them, you will see that most of
them have been updated with the experiences we have
had with newbies.

> And I see this group wants to take the Linux
> namespace, at least in Sydney.  
> After reading the messages about who gets to say
> RTFM, I began to wonder if 
> this group is actually interested in upholding the
> philosophy that comes with 
> that name.

IMHO, I don't like to spoon-feed solutions to newbies.
If they do their homework, make an effort to "learn",
and then they say that they got stuck at some
instance, I'd like to "help" them.

One of the best things I like about FLOSS is the
documentation. You can simply follow the README,
INSTALL and doc files, step-by-step.

Cheers guyz,

SK

--
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Software Engineer, Hexaware Technologies
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[SLUG] Open Networks iConnectAccess621 under Linux

[Tom Massey]

Morning,

Does anybody have any information about whether this ADSL router works
with Linux? From my reading, it seems that it would work fine, just plug
into the Ethernet port and use the web interface to configure rather
than the Windows software, but I don't know enough about the beasts to
be sure.

Thanks,
Tom

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Re: [SLUG] Linux user's group?

[Bret Comstock Waldow]

Again, I write in the "Royal you".

On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:21, tuxta2 wrote:

> If being a Free Software group means no rules at all, cause rules are
> not in the right spirit, does that make it okay for me to start sending
> links to porn sites I like?

The society we choose to create and live in takes the authority to impose 
behaviors to ensure a peace-freedom balance.  Hopefully.  This is not the 
purview of a non-governmental Linux User's Group.  A short way of saying it 
is "no one asked you to" (no offense, it's just true).

You can find ridiculous extremes in any direction without them necessarily 
being appropriate.  Just because the words are strung together, that doesn't 
give the thought relevance.

And I have no problem with this group/mailing list enforcing rules for 
posting, although as a separate issue, if they didn't enforce them equally or 
in some other way didn't do what they said they were I know I'd think less of 
'them'.  My questions look elsewhere, however.

Society imposes rules.  But this is about an agreement.  You (this group) said 
the group is about Linux.  Linux is the only software family in this group's 
name.  This group didn't say it's a Software Hobby Group, or an Alternatives 
to Windows Software Group, or a Unix Clone Software Group.  It says it's a 
Linux User's Group.  The group says this publically.

Linux is a copyrighted term.  There are licenses and laws that define how 
'Linux' can be used, and they apply.

So what does it mean, that this is a Linux User's Group, and not some other 
sort of User's Group?

I'm focused on one aspect particularly, which I realized while considering the 
RTFM discussion.  Some people have no problem with it.  Others do.  The ones 
who do aren't just refraining from saying it themselves - they want to impose 
their view on the others.

They aren't just deciding for themselves, they are taking it on themselves to 
decide for others, and their justification at the root for taking away 
other's choice includes that this is THE Sydney Linux User's Group.  ("We 
advocate Linux and spread it's message, and to do this we need to...etc.")

Microsoft hasn't monopolized the software industry at the point of a gun - 
they did it at the point of a namespace.  Their approach has been to get as 
many people as possible to think conmputer==Windows.  And they twisted arms 
(economically) illegally to do it - that's where some aspects of the 
anti-competitive court convictions come in.  They were (are?) willing to hurt 
other people in order to make things come out their way (bankruptcy hurts, 
loss of the only chance in a limited lifetime to realize a dream hurts, 
family pain and fighting over money problems damages marriages - the harm is 
real - and Microsoft lied and cheated to do it).

To control namespace, to control discourse, is to control minds.  Microsoft 
has real money in the bank for anyone who wants to scoff at this.

And I see this group wants to take the Linux namespace, at least in Sydney.  
After reading the messages about who gets to say RTFM, I began to wonder if 
this group is actually interested in upholding the philosophy that comes with 
that name.

Linux is GPL Free Software - it is, read the license.  This group didn't write 
it, doesn't own it, but you're taking on the name - should you?  Are you 
really about Linux?

To be about Linux means to be about Free Software.  If you aren't, leave the 
name for another group that is - maybe they're willing to back it up.

And maybe you think you are?  Are you?  If this is about free beer, it's not 
about Linux.

If you're going to impose sanctions on people, I think you'd better have your 
own house quite in order.  I think that.

So I'm asking, I want to hear people's thoughts - is this really about GPL 
Free Software Linux?  It's not what you say it is, it's what the copyright 
holder says it is - that is certain.  Free Software is against the censorship 
of software - is censoring people consonant with that?  If you change the 
name to (say) Helpful Newbie Software Group, I could accept the argument that 
it would be.  But you're appropriating the Linux colors for your flag.

You are trading on the Linux name and meaning.

So, is the THE Sydney Linux User's Group?  Do you advocate what Linux stands 
for?  Or should the name be something else?

I am writing this to the list.  Reply to the list, please, out where everyone 
can see it.

Regards,
Bret


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Re: Throttling??? Re: [SLUG] bittorrent clients

[nornagon]

libtorrent/rtorrent does throttling, and very nicely :)
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[SLUG] System Boot failure.

[bill]

Suddenly my Kanotix 2005-4 (Debian) hdd install hangs on boot.

It gets to Starting the nmb and smb daemons and then hangs trying to 
load whatever is next ( kdm I think).


It may have something to do with my failed attempt at installing the ATI 
driver for my  Radeon 9200SE card.


I can access the system OK by booting the Kanotix LiveCD but don't know 
which file needs to be edited to fix my problem.


Advice please.

Thanks

bill
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