Re: [RCSE] Carbon Supra #48 flies - weight 61 oz !
I should probably leave it since I have not read every post (dont have time always). But I did a very simple test a while ago for myself. Not any scientific as I did not think there was need. But the numbers are there still http://www.jojoen.no/volz So up too 1,8A with a MM XP I am prety sure that the elevator servo on a X-tail sailplane demands just as much power as a flap servo. But that is only in the zoom and speed turns mostly. Atleast my zooms improved when I changed the servo... I will sure outfit my Supra with a good elevator servo for sure. But I will stay with my regular 4cell pack and wires I find convenient that day. I dont think there is much power needed for a rudder in a TD model. Unless the rudder is huge. I fly my Superior and Giant electro with a tiny 6g servo on rudder and have no issues (other than in out of the car...). Hilsen (Regards) Jojo NEW: www.jojoen.no -- Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:52:58 -0600 From: S Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mark Drela [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Carbon Supra #48 flies - weight 61 oz ! Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark I enjoy reading your posts, very interesting. Makes me think of Spock. :-) What about elevator loads? And elevator servo moment? How would that be calculated? At 10:08 AM 2/18/2006, Mark Drela wrote: Molded Supra launch hinge moments are listed below, for a 200 lb tow load (hard F3j launch). For smaller tow loads, hinge moments will be proportionally smaller. wing camber = +10 deg rudder defl = 30 deg wing CL = 1.2 lift = 200 lbs q = 0.16 psi = 1104 Pa V = 95 mph = 42.5 m/s Flap hinge moment = 4.87 in-lb = 78 in-oz = 5.62 kgf-cm Ail. hinge moment = 3.15 in-lb = 50 in-oz = 3.60 kgf-cm Rud. hinge moment = 2.12 in-lb = 34 in-oz = 2.45 kgf-cm To get the servo moment (torque), this hinge moment must be multiplied by a linkage geometry factor, which is approximately by the ratio of servo/surface horn lengths. This is between 0.7 - 0.9 for most installations. Assuming a horn length ratio of 0.8, the servo moments are: Flap servo moment = 62 in-oz Ail. servo moment = 40 in-oz Rud. servo moment = 27 in-oz -- RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Frequency Click-Clack's
I do not know about if it is perfect, but I have the JR Module and love it. In OVSS land, it is really nice to go to a contest and know you are the only guy on a frequency so you can fly whenever and hopefully there is no one to turn on you during the event, and it has happened once or twice over the years. Now, if I decide to go to another frequency, I change and stay there till the next need to change, which may be a while. If I have the changed the setting 15 times this year, that is the max. i feel confident with it and since I am using the 770 PCM RX, if the numbers do not jive, nothing happens and you know to check. Also, you have to change frequencies prior to firing up so you must be vigilant to your condition. Also, if you are dependent on the Tower Hobbies Freq. Check for security, good luck. That things range is miniscule and if everyone you are concerned with is not literally right next to you, they are too far away. I have watched guys piddle with them from timt-to-time and was not impressed. i would be much more confident with Skips tools than that cheap toy. Marc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World
Just a note from a happy customer. I recently purchased a harness from Simon. Very well made, reasonably priced, great follow up by Simon.Barry AndersenOn Feb 21, 2006, at 11:37 PM, Simon Van Leeuwen wrote:If your goal is to see the best flight performance from whatever airframe you employ, don't scrimp on the electrical system.
[RCSE] battery vendor - happy customer
Just another quick note to let you guys know that I am very happy with the battery packs I just received from No BS Batteries http://www.hangtimes.com/nobsbatteries.html Fast service and a very well made packs with heavy connector leads. Barry Andersen RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Dial a channel
Recent synth module comments from: Gordy: a couple of times I hadn't brought my xtals along and I didn't the luxury of having a clear channel at a contest or slope...and it cost me planes Martin: Those rotary switches on the synth modules are not designed for continuous use. AMEN brothers GM. A while back I switched to the synth module for the 9C for precisely the reason Gordy mentioned. [Wow, it is REALLY worrisome that I actually agree with Gordy on something :)]. I had been traveling with multiple modules for the Tx and a bag full of crystals but even that was a bit limiting on some of my travels. The only time I've been shot down in the last 20 years was when I couldn't get on a clear channel last year. I'll admit it was not entirely the other guys fault - I should have been more pro-active in tracking down the missing pin that round. However, for those who travel a lot to contests or fun-flys, having a frequency agile capability is a major asset. It's not for everyone, and due caution must be exercised to be sure you're on the frequency you intended. But when it works, it works very well and takes away one more thing to worry about while you're on the road. That said, there are problems with some of the current implementations. Martin's comments are right on the money and the frequency settings on my module have misfired once already, The solution was to run the dial one step past where you want and then bring it back. Switch contacts will be the weak link on the modules with physical settings like this. Mine hasn't been switched all that often so I was surprised when this happened a few weeks ago. The electronic setting (as in the high-end equipment) is a great improvement but not readily deployable in older platforms. And the Rx end of the system is not quite as reliable as I'd like (my opinion only). The demands of DLG put a high premium on weight and size and the few that might meet this requirement haven't worked out real well in that environment. So we're really dealing with a technology in transition, Hopefully the more automated units such as the 14MZ and some of the Seeker technologies will evolve into a reliable and affordable package which will become standardized enough that it will be generally affordable to most users. It's a bit like the ongoing thread about radio and servo evolution. Many of the concepts we take for granted now were experimental and flown only by guys who had a high risk tolerance. I think we're a little further down the risk path with current synth capability but hopefully there's more good stuff coming. - Dave R RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Removable Skeg System Help
Looking for some setup info on a Zenith Vtail.I would like to know your CG placement, tow hook placement. Comments on how it launches. Also some flight mode setup info.Do you cruse around most of the time in Reflex mode?I know there is some good info on www.f3x.com I am just lookingfor more info from other flyers to try and find what works best for me. Also I talked with a fellow Zenith owner (White and blue V tail) @ the SWC about his Removable Skag system.I guess I need to do better @ names. If you read this I would love to get some more info on the way you did that. I hope to do a removable skeg system for both my Zeniths and my new RES Danny I am about to get. The setup seemed to work quite well. You have to remove the skeg to remove the nosecone. Thanks, John D. FrugéWebmaster MRCCwww.modestorcclub.comAMA #695632
[RCSE] RE: Grunting while Launching, servos that is ;-)
Where was I going with my comments on servo torque requirements based on the post by Mark Drella on the Supra servos. My thoughts were echoed more strongly and straightforwardly in posts by others. Summary 1. Mark's figures on Supra servo torque requirements are worst case numbers, very few flyers will ever experience these loads. (Daryl Perkins reinforced this with his comment that 99.9% of you guys will never build the line tension Mark is referring to. 2. Don't believe the advertised torque specification for a servo, it is a best case number - in actual use it will be lower. (Simon went into detail on Servo Performance - Real World. 3. Each flyer needs to understand this and make a personal decision based upon personal experience and expectation of their type of flying. (Gordy in his normal style.) I've taken up enough bandwidth, Don RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Removable Skeg System Help
Here's what I use for all my moldies: http://www.adesigner.com/brass/images/Supra/wildskeg.htm Tom - Original Message - From: John D Frugé To: soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: [RCSE] Removable Skeg System Help Looking for some setup info on a Zenith Vtail.I would like to know your CG placement, tow hook placement. Comments on how it launches. Also some flight mode setup info.Do you cruse around most of the time in Reflex mode?I know there is some good info on www.f3x.com I am just lookingfor more info from other flyers to try and find what works best for me. Also I talked with a fellow Zenith owner (White and blue V tail) @ the SWC about his Removable Skag system.I guess I need to do better @ names. If you read this I would love to get some more info on the way you did that. I hope to do a removable skeg system for both my Zeniths and my new RES Danny I am about to get. The setup seemed to work quite well. You have to remove the skeg to remove the nosecone. Thanks, John D. FrugéWebmaster MRCCwww.modestorcclub.comAMA #695632
RE: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World
Good post Simon -Original Message- From: Simon Van Leeuwen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:37 PM To: soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World Remember...the OEM specifications are derived at a fixed voltage with whatever the current the servo desires from the power supply to determine maximum available torque (this commonly recognized measurement is taken @ 1.0 from the output shaft to move a load a fixed distance). No matter what, the servos in your aircraft will NEVER come close to this. Correct, on the 1 measurement from the center of the output shaft. FYI on JR servo testing here at Horizon we test torque ratings with actual JR battery packs, both 4 and 5 cell, running through either a servo tester or a receiver. Usually a 3000mAh. If your goal is to see the best flight performance from whatever airframe you employ, don't scrimp on the electrical system. Don't forget the linkage geometry and setup as well. JD RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Do you like long wings?
Just because you CAN break a 300# line with a 3M 90 oz plane, doesn't mean you need all that force to launch a 5M. I believe the expression is touch. Hi-starts are normally sized to pull about 5 times the weight of a plane, so a good launch tension would be 5*185 oz or about 58 pounds. Get radical and double, even triple it. Still under 200# pull. Tom Koszuta Western New York Sailplane and Electric Flyers Buffalo, NY - Original Message - And, how are you going to launch something like this? 65-90oz models are busting 300lb test line. How about a 5M (195) TD model? http://www.soaringusa.com/products/product.htm?product_id=16505category_id=259 Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World
What is also very important in our world is slop. The well proven DS368 is a very cool servo that can take a lot of beating. But after a lot of hammer jojo ground breaking they will get sloppy. I hear there is a DS3068 out of the factory now with output ball bearing that should fix it ;-) Hilsen (Regards) Jojo NEW: www.jojoen.no -- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:47:08 -0600 From: John Diniz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Simon Van Leeuwen [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good post Simon -Original Message- From: Simon Van Leeuwen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:37 PM To: soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World Remember...the OEM specifications are derived at a fixed voltage = with=20 whatever the current the servo desires from the power supply to=20 determine maximum available torque (this commonly recognized measurement = is taken @ 1.0 from the output shaft to move a load a fixed distance).=20 No matter what, the servos in your aircraft will NEVER come close to = this. Correct, on the 1 measurement from the center of the output shaft. FYI = on JR servo testing here at Horizon we test torque ratings with actual = JR battery packs, both 4 and 5 cell, running through either a servo = tester or a receiver. Usually a 3000mAh. If your goal is to see the best flight performance from whatever=20 airframe you employ, don't scrimp on the electrical system. Don't forget the linkage geometry and setup as well. JD RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] R/C vendors - happy customer
Looks like we frequent the same vendors.grin I bought a switch harness from Simon a while ago and was very happy with the service and product. I also purchased receiver packs from Hangtime Hobbies and it was easy to order from them via their website and shipping was fast to Hawaii. Aloha to all on RCSE, Al Battad - AMA #506981 -Original Message- From: Barry Andersen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:39 AM To: RCSE Cc: Hangtimes Hobbies Subject: [RCSE] battery vendor - happy customer Just another quick note to let you guys know that I am very happy with the battery packs I just received from No BS Batteries http://www.hangtimes.com/nobsbatteries.html Fast service and a very well made packs with heavy connector leads. Barry Andersen From: Barry Andersen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:36 AM To: Simon Van Leeuwen Cc: RCSE Subject: Re: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World Just a note from a happy customer. I recently purchased a harness from Simon. Very well made, reasonably priced, great follow up by Simon. Barry Andersen On Feb 21, 2006, at 11:37 PM, Simon Van Leeuwen wrote: If your goal is to see the best flight performance from whatever airframe you employ, don't scrimp on the electrical system. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Servo slop
A bit of wisdom from Joe Galletti in 1998: A quick way to improve slop between the servo output shaft and the bearing is to use a servo horn retaining screw that is a little larger than the standard screw. This expands the output shaft and takes away the slop. Bill Swingle Janesville, CA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] New! Performance Tuning DVD
Anyone who not a super expert needs to have this new 2 hour DVD. Performance Tuning covers rigging, building straight, CG, incidence and decalage, radio set ups, adverse yaw correction, tuning V-tails and flight demos. Simply the most complete program ever offered on glider tuning a great teaching tool to help others get the most from their gliders. For More Details About The New DVD For The Preview Trailer: http://radiocarbonart.com/Pages/perftunemain.html Here's A Link To The Customer Review Page: http://radiocarbonart.com/Pages/perfreview.html Order Now Online: http://www.radiocarbonart.com/store/rcaorder.php or give me a call at: 541-752-9661 Many thanks for your continued support! Paul Naton Radio Carbon Art Producers of High Quality Silent Flight DVDs http://www.radiocarbonart.com Tel: 541-752-9661 Visa/Mastercard Accepted RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] He still sees no need for Dial a channel, but I have -- for years
On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:49:41PM -0800, Martin Usher wrote: | Those rotary switches on the synth modules are not designed for | continuous use. They're similar to the old circuit board mounted DIP | switches (the ones that you had to flip with the tip of a pencil), | they're great for occasional configuration changes but the contacts and | detents wear out quite fast if you use them repeatedly Not only that, but the Hitec Spectra module has the switches on the inside -- so you have to remove the module from the radio for every change, and it also encourages not actually looking at the dials and just remembering what channel the radio is on. Which is fine, as long as your memory is perfect. And the only person I know with a perfect memory is my wife -- and even then it's only perfect for times when I screwed up :) And every time you remove the module, you risk breaking it, either the plugs that it goes into, the clips that hold it in, or you could drop it and break it that way. At least the Futaba module for the 9C, while almost identical, has the switches on the outside, so you can change and inspect them easily without removing it. And then the rotary switches are TINY. It's very easy to make a mistake there -- my eyes are reasonably good, and I have to double and triple check my work there. Personally, I'd much rather see the synthesized modules built in, controlled via the computer radio interface itself, ideally with a scanner. The higher end radios seem to do it just fine, and even the Polk Tracker radio has it, and for only $200. The Futaba 14MZ -- doesn't it have some sort of 2.4 GHz setup to tell the RX what 72 MHz channel to use? (They call it `WFSS'.) Talk about a Rube-Goldberg machine -- it's like they got half of a spread spectrum setup going, and then couldn't finish it or something. I bought a pair of FRS transceivers (i.e. walkie talkies, 460 MHz or so) recently at Fry's for $10 _for the pair_, with no rebate. These things each have a TX and a RX, and are fully synthesized and can do all 14 channels with no crystal swapping. You'd think *all* our R/C gear would be synthesized by now. Though what we *really* need is the successor to the Spektrum DX6, with full range, at least 9 channels, and somewhat more programming options. (No exponential on the rudder? What were they thinking?) If they can get that out, it'll be like a license to print money for them ... And that's enough random `state of our radio systems' rants for now :) -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] battery vendor - happy customer
I have had similar experience. Tom-Original Message-From: Barry Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: RCSE soaring@airage.comCc: Hangtimes Hobbies [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:38:30 -0500Subject: [RCSE] battery vendor - happy customer Just another quick note to let you guys know that I am very happy with the battery packs I just received from "No BS Batteries"http://www.hangtimes.com/nobsbatteries.htmlFast service and a very well made packs with heavy connector leads.Barry AndersenRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Servo slop
It's like owning a Ford - you buy a bigger hammer :~)DanBill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A bit of wisdom from Joe Galletti in 1998:A quick way to improve slop between the servo output shaft and the bearing is to use a servo horn retaining screw that is a little larger than the standard screw. This expands the output shaft and takes away the slop.Bill SwingleJanesville, CA Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
[RCSE] Those crazy lazy dials... :-) Spectra Module
Martin:Those rotary switches on the synth modules are not designed for continuous use. Not sure what continuous means, but lets see, about 4 years since I did the conversion on my RX, same module, and a personal goal to try to fly every day somewhere in the world (failed that one a bunchdamn weather!..and work :-) But and incredible amount of use and those dials are still snug and the module still dead on . Its been wet a bunch of times, radio and all, contests and slope...frozen and cooked. So while Martin is right, in fact they are pretty much invulnerable in our usage. Now the numbers have been gone for a while and I had to use a ink pen to remark them a few times :-) Gordy FT Lauderdale tonite, Key Biscayne tomorrow
[RCSE] Servo slop fix advice?...why not avoid it by easing up on your gear teeth?
Bill Swingle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A bit of wisdom from Joe Galletti in 1998:A quick way to improve slop between the servo output shaft and the bearing is to use a servo horn retaining screw that is a little larger than the standard screw. This expands the output shaft and takes away the slop. So you're saying that using a bigger screw in a metal output shaft is going to work? Anyone using plastic gears in their TD ships? Just wondering. You can ease up on your servos teeth by keeping your servo arm as short as possible. The shorter the arm the less the leverage applied to the teeth and case.And lets not glaze over the fact that usually servo slop is the other name for sloppy surfaces..and one also usually has nothing to do with the other. A little play in the threaded end to the clevis' on both ends, a little flex in a weak linkage rod, some flex in the hinge line cloth and hinge line skin(yes it happens in the best of moldies), some clevis pin movement at the horn and arm it all stacks up, now add in run out ...a speck of movement at the horn connection is an 1/8" or more at the trailing edge. That TE slop the becomes the gear and case killer, because that surface is fluttering and snapping on pings and dives, you might not hear it but you can bet that your servo's gear trains can feel it...bruised and abused. The oh so popular drag saving top linkages absolutely mangle servos gears fast and cook servo motor brushes. Weakened motors, let gears move more around center, digi or not, in fact gear slop, linkage slop, long arms and weak motors, can actually be accentuated by the new Digital resolutionDigi servos try their darndest to keep the pot 'centered' (arm) so as it slops around the digi amp is busy yelling at the gears to put the arm back and back and back and back at really high speed...specially if you have 5 cells to juice the action. Same for the beloved holding power of digi's...analog left the center 'soft' you had to (and could!) move the arm some before the analog amp would yell, "THAT'S ENOUGH!" that squish acted as a cushion against teeth wear. So get more nuts about linkage, and worry less about specs. Gordy
[RCSE] Bud Elder's email
I need some stab mounts for a Supra anyone got Bud Elder's email.. The one on CRRC bounces back. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Removable Skeg System Help
Here's what I use for all my moldies: http://www.adesigner.com/brass/images/Supra/wildskeg.htm Tom - Original Message - From: John D Frugé To: soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: [RCSE] Removable Skeg System Help Looking for some setup info on a Zenith Vtail. I would like to know your CG placement, tow hook placement. Comments on how it launches. Also some flight mode setup info. Do you cruse around most of the time in Reflex mode? I know there is some good info on www.f3x.com I am just looking for more info from other flyers to try and find what works best for me. Also I talked with a fellow Zenith owner (White and blue V tail) @ the SWC about his Removable Skag system. I guess I need to do better @ names. If you read this I would love to get some more info on the way you did that. I hope to do a removable skeg system for both my Zeniths and my new RES Danny I am about to get. The setup seemed to work quite well. You have to remove the skeg to remove the nosecone. Thanks, John D. Frugé Webmaster MRCC www.modestorcclub.com AMA #695632 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] FS: NIB X21 cross-tail
New and untouched X21 cross-tail, in UHM Carbon. 126 span, MH32 foil, two-piece wing. Ultra-stiff construction and has six ballast tubes (yes, SIX!). Yellow top with Red striped bottoms and points. Reduced to $1,275 shipped to ConUS. Need to fund another F3B project. Tom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] F3B Team Selections 2007
Ok gentlemen, it seems there may be some interest in eliminating the qualifying requirement for F3B team selection. There is, I believe, a process already in place to resolve this question. The team selection commitee currently lead by Joe Wurts, can as a group, vote to support this proposal to eliminate the qualifying requirement for F3B team select and then present this to the AMA competition department with the request to mail out a ballot allowing all current participants to vote on this proposal. Now based on the publicty over the latest ballot voting failure this winter, I feel that the response would be outstanding. Whether the qualification requirement would pass or not is not the main issue here but getting the team selection comittee off the pot and getting the job done is the issue. It is very clear to me that if the TSC took a proactive stance supporting F3B we could have a much healthier program and isn't that what we all want. Regards, Dave Corven. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World
Thanks John, good to know. I'll bet JR is the only OEM to do this... John Diniz wrote: Correct, on the 1 measurement from the center of the output shaft. FYI on JR servo testing here at Horizon we test torque ratings with actual JR battery packs, both 4 and 5 cell, running through either a servo tester or a receiver. Usually a 3000mAh. Don't forget the linkage geometry and setup as well. JD Simon Van Leeuwen RADIUS SYSTEMS PnP SYSTEMS - The E-Harness of Choice Cogito Ergo Zooom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World
Hi Jojo, I wonder how many folks are as precise (OK - anal) as I when it comes to elliminating control surface slop. Here are some things to think about: - As DP points out geometry is critical. The shortest arm on the servo to achieve the surface throw required is the best way to maximize machanical advantage and achieve better than rated torque (remember - the spcs rate the torque with a servo arm that is 1 from output shaft to load attachment). - Zero bends in the pushrods from servo to control surface horn what-so-ever - The holes in the servo arms and control horns start out slightly smaller than the pins on the clevises and I work them in (along with gear slop these holes will eventually elongate) - When the cover is secured over the servo, a dab of Goop between it and the servo case absolutely ensures zero servo deflection under any flight maneuvering (upper skin buckling). If there is a significant gap between the cover and the servo case, a little end-grain balsa can make up the difference. BTW, after carefully fitting the servo covers I use GOOP (very sparingly) to attach them to the wing surface. Looks way better than tape, and easily removable. - In the fuse I elliminate the servo grommets and eyelets, and cut the openings to fit very snug around the servo case. I then use Goop to hold them in. After catastrophic airframe failures at speed, the Goop has always held whatever I glued in, and not failed. That's it for now... Jo Grini wrote: What is also very important in our world is slop. The well proven DS368 is a very cool servo that can take a lot of beating. But after a lot of hammer jojo ground breaking they will get sloppy. I hear there is a DS3068 out of the factory now with output ball bearing that should fix it ;-) Hilsen (Regards) Jojo NEW: www.jojoen.no -- Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:47:08 -0600 From: John Diniz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Simon Van Leeuwen [EMAIL PROTECTED], soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good post Simon -Original Message- From: Simon Van Leeuwen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 10:37 PM To: soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World Remember...the OEM specifications are derived at a fixed voltage = with=20 whatever the current the servo desires from the power supply to=20 determine maximum available torque (this commonly recognized measurement = is taken @ 1.0 from the output shaft to move a load a fixed distance).=20 No matter what, the servos in your aircraft will NEVER come close to = this. Correct, on the 1 measurement from the center of the output shaft. FYI = on JR servo testing here at Horizon we test torque ratings with actual = JR battery packs, both 4 and 5 cell, running through either a servo = tester or a receiver. Usually a 3000mAh. If your goal is to see the best flight performance from whatever=20 airframe you employ, don't scrimp on the electrical system. Don't forget the linkage geometry and setup as well. JD RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Simon Van Leeuwen RADIUS SYSTEMS PnP SYSTEMS - The E-Harness of Choice Cogito Ergo Zooom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Servo slop
This reminds of another tip; on servos with metalic O/P shafts, replace the OEM bolt (phillips drive) with a socket head capscrew. If you need to remove the arm while the servo is still installed, you can cut down an allen key that makes removal a cinch... Bill Swingle wrote: A bit of wisdom from Joe Galletti in 1998: A quick way to improve slop between the servo output shaft and the bearing is to use a servo horn retaining screw that is a little larger than the standard screw. This expands the output shaft and takes away the slop. Bill Swingle Janesville, CA Simon Van Leeuwen RADIUS SYSTEMS PnP SYSTEMS - The E-Harness of Choice Cogito Ergo Zooom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Servo Performance - Real World
Gee, thanks Barry, I appreciate that! Barry Andersen wrote: Just a note from a happy customer. I recently purchased a harness from Simon. Very well made, reasonably priced, great follow up by Simon. Barry Andersen On Feb 21, 2006, at 11:37 PM, Simon Van Leeuwen wrote: If your goal is to see the best flight performance from whatever airframe you employ, don't scrimp on the electrical system. -- Simon Van Leeuwen RADIUS SYSTEMS PnP SYSTEMS - The E-Harness of Choice Cogito Ergo Zooom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: Those crazy lazy dials... :-) Spectra Module
Oklahoma experience: Fut9CH (3 years) with Fut synth module (1 year). Flown ~ 3-4 times a week (It's nice to be retired!). Usually once/week frequency change depending on which models are being flown. Worked flawlessly for ~ 1 year. Had one bad setting at the field about 6 weeks ago - dials were set on Ch 19 but actual frequency was Ch 18. Basically, the little detents on the 'ones' dial didn't click in place properly. Rotated past and reset back to 19 and it worked OK. I've replicated this on the bench. Unfortunately, there's no way to be sure without turning on the Tx. So these days I check at home or at the Hotel before heading to the field with whatever I'm flying that day. These are great units and I'm really glad others are getting years of service from them. But after a year it looks like the switches are getting a little weak on mine so I'd still vote for an affordable, electronically programmable variant that I'm sure will be coming some day. - Dave R (Bartlesville tonight and most nights unless it's the 2nd weekend (Dallas)) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: // Not sure what continuous means, but lets see, about 4 years since I did the conversion on my RX, same module, and a personal goal to try to fly every day somewhere in the world (failed that one a bunchdamn weather!..and work :-) But and incredible amount of use and those dials are still snug and the module still dead on . Its been wet a bunch of times, radio and all, contests and slope...frozen and cooked. So while Martin is right, in fact they are pretty much invulnerable in our usage. Now the numbers have been gone for a while and I had to use a ink pen to remark them a few times :-) Gordy FT Lauderdale tonite, Key Biscayne tomorrow RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Servo slop fix advice?...why not avoid it by easing up on your gear teeth?
Gordy wrote: Anyone using plastic gears in their TD ships? Just wondering. There are some very good servos with plastic gears; the JR DS3301 andthe Futaba 9650. You can ease up on your servos teeth by keeping your servo arm as short as possible. The shorter the arm the less the leverage applied to the teeth and case. Less load on the gear teeth, but more load on the case - which is not all bad if the output is supported by a ball bearing or a properly designed bushing surface in the case. And lets not glaze over the fact that usually servo slop is the other name for sloppy surfaces..and one also usually has nothing to do with the other. A little play in the threaded end to the clevis' on both ends. No excuse for this as you can use a solder clevis on one end and a small pattern brass 2-56 nut to lock the clevis to the threads on the other end. a little flex in a weak linkage rod, Again, no excuse for this as you can always use a heavier rod. I've started to eliminate the adjustable part of the pushrod. This allows me to use 5/64 piano wire and two solder clevis'. some flex in the hinge line cloth and hinge line skin(yes it happens in the best of moldies), It sure can, but it's poor design and craftsmanship on the builders part if this is allowed to happen. some clevis pin movement at the horn First off, don't drill the hole too large in the servo arm. A #52 drill is .063" and if pushed through a hole in a plastic arm with a pin vise by hand and removed without twisting, the hole will be a very good fit - snug without lots of drag. To correct a loose control horn, remove the clevis from the rod and place a tiny drop of thin CA on the clevis pin while it's assembled to the control horn. After the CA has set, rotate the clevis around the horn a few times to loosen the glue joint. Presto, an exact fit of the clevis to the control horn. This needs to be checked and renewed occasionally as the glue 'spacer' wears. and arm it all stacks up, now add in run out ...a speck of movement at the horn connection is an 1/8" or more at the trailing edge. This is where plastic gears are superior to metal gears as it's possible to run them with a little interference, mostly eliminating the play in the gear train. The oh so popular drag saving top linkages absolutely mangle servos gears fast and cook servo motor brushes. I disagree with this. It's in direct contradiction to your earlier statement to keep the servo arms short. The real difficulty with the top actuated surface is getting the clevis hole close enough to the centerline of the servo arm,thereby matching the travel generated by the servo to that needed by the very short linkages typical of top hinged surfaces -without elctronically reducing the travel of the servo. Electronically reducing the travel of the servo amplifies the effect of gear slop by making it a larger percentage of the total travel. With top hinged surfaces it's essential to use the complete rotational travel of the servo. This maintains the power/leverage of the servo, allows use of the full angular resolution of the servo and minimizes the effect of any play internal to the servo. Weakened motors, let gears move more around center, digi or not, in fact gear slop, linkage slop, long arms and weak motors, can actually be accentuated by the new Digital resolutionDigi servos try their darndest to keep the pot 'centered' (arm) so as it slops around the digi amp is busy yelling at the gears to put the arm back and back and back and back at really high speed...specially if you have 5 cells to juice the action. This doesn't fly either. Other than actual impact loads generated by loose linkages, the servo has NO idea of the play that exists outside of the servo. The amplifier maintains the position of the output arm without respect to surface position. Same for the beloved holding power of digi's...analog left the center 'soft' you had to (and could!) move the arm some before the analog amp would yell, "THAT'S ENOUGH!" that squish acted as a cushion against teeth wear. Maybe, but the inertia of the motor/gear system is probably more important where impact wear is considered than is a 'hard' center. So get more nuts about linkage, and worry less about specs. Well you ended up on a good note! regards, Jim PorterJohnston Iowa USA "The airplane stays up because it doesn't have the time to fall." Orville Wright
