Re: [RCSE] LSF discussion
"Testing the waters for a different type of LSF" http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554577 It's a long one... Jim Deck wrote: OK, probably most members of RCSE are aware of it but, for those who aren't, a good discussion concerning the LSF is taking place in "Sailplane Talk" on RCGroups. Both members & non-members of the LSF may find it interesting. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Who is flying Cross Country for fun?
Since the LSF discussion and Johnny B's goal and return are "in the news", I'd like to poll the group: Who flies cross country or goal and return on a regular basis? Elaborate please. Tom KoszutaWestern New York Sailplane and Electric FlyersBuffalo, NY
[RCSE] 2M Re-Visited
As a diversion from the LSF angst, I'd like to briefly resurrect an old thread. Shortly after NATS there was a flurry of dialog regarding 2M design. My comments, in general, suggested there was still some room to upgrade 2M designs, look more closely at the Drela airfoils, optimize planforms at the wing loadings we could achieve, etc. etc. So for the last 6-8 weeks that's been a fun project. The result is a poly, aptly named the Kahuna 1.8 (2M doesn't quite fit in the bed of my truck so we opted for 72" span). Although a poly, it's intended to be a validation platform for trying a few things out. Basically a V-tail, pod and boom, Drela section, optimized planform for the wing loading and still winchable at an AUW of 19.5oz. The structures are basically similar to DLG but without the need for a sub-rudder. Other than that (and swapping out the airfoils), it's more or less a discus on steroids Unfortunately, as Ben Wilson has noted, the dwindling number of sailplane guys makes the following unverifiable as there's only one active soaring pilot in Oklahoma that I'm aware of (me). So no witnesses. But there's no reason to make any of it up. The last couple of evenings were spent doing hi-start trim flights, checking incidence, CG, control settings, etc. etc. Today was the first time to really winch it. The soccer field is somewhat small (three fields wide by one field long) and surrounded by trees on three sides and a major road on the 4th. So flights are pretty much restricted to flying over the open field area. First hard winch launch was a bit downwind. No wing flex, nice zoom, good stability, etc. Second winch launch was similar - maybe 300ft total altitude at pushover. Launched into a nice little thermal and the adventure began. It became very obvious that the Drela sections were performing well. Just enough airfoil transition and washout to minimize tip stalls. The wing could pull a ridiculous AOA and just mush straight ahead. Basically very good pitch and yaw response with the V design chosen. After checking it all out and finding about three more thermals the ship is pretty well settled in and we've got 10 minutes on the flight and good altitude. Wonder how long this can go on, sez I. Five thermals later and we're at 25 minutes. Gee, sure would be fun to do that 1 hr Level IV flight. Just about then the lift cycle quits and at 29 minutes, and again at 34 minutes, sub-tree top saves are needed to keep the flight going. The one at 34 hit a bubble on landing approach and off she went. Discus technology and methods show promise in this size class. Somewhere around 45 minutes into the flight, it's looking really grim with a large sink cycle everywhere. I have no idea why those two adolescent hawks decided to have a bird fight over the field just then. But the two of them came tumbling out of the sky ass over tail feathers and pulled out at about 50ft right at the edge of the west tree line. They both started circling down wind - and were going up. Following the fighting falcons paid off with one of the better small thermals of the day and we're off to the races again. Finally at 55 minutes into the flight it's time to relax until, at 58 minutes, another sink cycle comes roaring through and it's looking grim. Right then the little flag on the Tx antenna starts pointing north. 'Follow the flag' is the lesson given by Doug Harnish at the NATS so in desperation we're using what little altitude is left to head for the north tree line. And right there on a bead with the little flag is a tight little twister kicking off from the only tree on the line that's wiggling it's branches. The hour flight is made. That little thermal worked so well that we were well and truly skied out (for a 2M) when it quit. Hmmm, wonder if a 2hr is in the cards? Nope (common sense kicks in) - it's a 400maH pack and the best we've got from it in the other plane is about 100 minutes and we've already used 15 on top of this so Brought it home at the end of the next lift cycle for a 77:06 flight. Not bad for a trim flight on a 1.8m home design (and build). Sure would've been nice to have a witness or two for that 2nd L-IV flight but to my knowledge the nearest witnesses are 250+ miles away. Bottom line - I still submit we are not optimized in 2M. Yes there are some good ships out there but I do not see any reason a 2M needs to come in at 46 oz or more. 30ish max if you're really heavy on the structures. Although this one is a poly, the same structures will be used for a flaperon version which shouldn't weigh more than 24oz. Yeah, it probably won't take a pedal-to-the-metal-full-bore-stomp-on-it winch launch. But the way this one is flying makes that a reasonable compromise. This isn't hard to do, guys. I still believe the reason 2M performance is generally inferior to open class is that most 2M ships are either converted slopers or small open class ships,
[RCSE] Re: LSF Discussion
As a newly christened LSF "aspirant", I say don't attempt to change from English to Metric measurement -- or the absolute length of the "yardstick". Far too many talented people have already been "measured" (and re-measured and re-re-re-measured -- i.e., Don Harris) against the same yardstick. Anything else is "outcome-based" soaring. The same thing happened many times over in sailboat racing. People would lobby for a new measurement rule (literal handicap measurement of the boat's dimensions to predict performance against varying size boats) to help them beat the system. It didn't matter in the end, since the true talent always rose to the top, no matter how it was measured. New measurement rules did successfully sell new boats and sails, though! (Sailing is now on its 4th generation handicap rule over the last 30 years.) That's my 0.2 -- Thermals, "Sparky" -- Rudy Siegel, AMA 131126 CD Civis Aerius Sum RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion
I have stayed out of this foray but will offer only one clarification. When you talk about the planes of yor, we all flew those. Today we all fly what is out there today so the competition is just as meaningful as it was 20 years ago. It is not moldies against woodies but the playing field is still level. It is just as hard today as it was 20 years ago, in fact for me it is harder because age is catching up with capability.BTW, got most of my LV wins with the woodies. Have needed the 8 hour for about 12-15 years and never had the desire to do it to complete the V. JackOn 9/6/06, Pat McCleave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Guys,Here is my 2 cents worth on the topic. First off, I am currently a Level III Pilot needing only my Goal and Return to complete Level IV. I plan to continue under the current guidlines to strive to reach Level V. I am going to do so because I have always felt like and still do feel like the LSF program is strictly a personal accomplishment program and always will be. I have had to complete Level IV basically twice because I lost my original voucher with only needing to compete in one more contest to complete it. Oh well, big deal it is all about the journey anyway and it was fun to do it all again. I know for me to ever reach Level V, I am going to have to travel and do so a lot to get there. The deal is, you not only have to find the contests with 20 or more contestants you have to beat 19 or more of those contestants 3 times to complete your task. I may never complete the journey, but I will never regret starting it and working my way along the path. I have met many friends along the way and hope to meet many more before I am done. With all that being said, I personally think there would be nothing wrong at all with some of the suggestions being made for a two tier system. The idea of a two tier system will not change the overall accomplishment put forth by the program. It will just give another program in which to persue. The arguement of How Dare do you Change the Current System is every bit as outdated and and old as the arguement to change it. I am sure glad that we did not all pose the same arguement when it came to new glider designs over the same time period that the LSF has been in existance. If you are all so worried about protecting the accomplishment of those that came before us in getting to Level V then do the tasks with the same types of planes they used instead of the latest and greatest world beater molded plane. Change is not always evil, and in most cases will promote growth, new interest, and even revives old interest. Okay, I will step down and let the next guy have his turn at this.See Ya,Pat McCleaveWichita, KSRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jack IafretHome and Hobbies
Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion
Here is my comment on this subject. Not everybody can be a Level V, otherwise there would be no reason to attain it. No reason to change rules so more can reach the apogee. Next they will want a handicap system for world competition. The few the proud... I aspire to be a level V. Steven Meyer LSF IV 1/2 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF discussion Contests
I love competition. However, unless you live near a big club, there's little chance to find contests with 20 people +. The idea of developing skills and enjoying the sport is the most important aspect in my opinion. If there's no way to do the competition circuit unless you are very well off, it keeps a lot of flyer's from doing any tasks. I believe it is important to "attend" some contests for the experience and "comradery", but not have to "win" some with 20+ people. Newbies are the most affected by the expense of going to far away contests. Those that have the luxury of monthly contests and/or can afford to attend contests are the ones who tend to support this aspect. I signed up a number of LSF flyers (5 or 6 at least) and all but one got stopped by the competition aspect (he moved away to a bigger city closer to the competitions and is doing very well). This part was great in the early days of larger clubs, but with the difficulty of even keeping a club going, the "level" of competition required for LSF is more than daunting. It pretty much eliminates the smaller clubs with only a few members. I think having just an "attendance" requirement of 3 or 4 contests with 10 or more over the course of the levels will provide the "experience" of contests without limiting it to just the rich and "infamous". Another tough aspect of LSF is the requirement to have LSF witnesses. It's basically impossible in my neck of the woods at this time. I don't see any problem with LSF changing with the times, if those that are in the 121 are kept separate and recognized for their super achievement. Having two types of goals you can select for LSF (TD no contests, 21 or older AMA witnesses) and the existing one might open it up for a good many flyers. I know it would help the many hundreds that signed up but stopped because of contests. I doubt that it would be that difficult to have two different sets of task sheets within the existing LSF. Jim Deck If someone wants to set up another achievement program, I will gladly participate and still work on my LSF V in the current format. I will also volunteer to help Tom, Larry, Bill and Steve work out the details of an additional set of goals based on the needs and resources of the smaller clubs. IMHO TB - Original Message - From: "Rick Eckel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Chip Willis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'James V. Bacus'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'RCSE'" Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 9:45 AM Subject: RE: [RCSE] LSF discussion I would disagree. Jim may have not caught every post and didn't catch the disclaimers. It wasn't the originators intent to bash LSF. And I didn't see any bashing from the originator - perhaps a few of the other posts went that way but generally it was a pretty even discussion. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF Comments
I am curious, if you are not competitive person then why do you desire a goal based system to compare your skills to other pilots, and desire to have the recognition of earning that goal? Why isn't it enough for you to just fly for fun? At 10:27 PM 9/6/2006, Harold Jackson wrote: I joined in spite of the contest requirements. I am not a competitive person and don't want to be. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] OVSS #8 - Fred Contest
Carrying on the great tradition of Jim Bacus and Jim McCarthy, I will be hosting a barbecue on Saturday night, September 9 for all of the competitors, friends, and family in attendance at OVSS #8, the Fred Fredrickson Memorial Thermal Challenge. Cocktails at 6:00 PM, BBQ at 7:00 PM. Please come and enjoy. Check the link below for directions and maps will be available at the field on Saturday. Thanks, Ron Kukral SOAR Chicago --- Begin Message --- Carrying on the great of traditions of Jim Bacus and Jim McCarthy, I will be hosting a barbecue on Saturday night, September 9 for all of the competitors, friends, and family in attendance at OVSS #8, the Fred Fredrickson Memorial Thermal Challenge. Cocktails at 6:00 PM, BBQ at 7:00 PM. Please come and enjoy. Check the links below for directions and maps will be available at the field on Saturday. Thanks, Ron Kukral SOAR Chicago ~GE3.kmz Description: Binary data --- End Message ---
Re: [RCSE] LSF discussion
Actually, having read through a majority of the thread, I don't see him as attacking the LSF. He says again and again that he respects the LSF system, but is looking for something that isn't so dependent upon contests. It's something that even I've heard repeatedly, and I've only been running in these circles for the last few years. Not to discount his argument, but I think there is a bigger issue that looms above us all - and that is the atrophy of our niche of the aeromodeling hobby. Our local club (LASS, from Louisville) has seen it's numbers dwindle in the past few years, and while we do have our own shining example of "new blood", he's only one kid. We're lucky to get enough people to hold a legal LSF II contest on the weekends. I'd love to see some more "new blood" in the hobby - and that doesn't just mean "new people", but also some "new ideas" - and I'll give an ear to just about anyone who has an idea that might help me put more people in my club and more planes in the air. I love the LSF program, and it is my goal to hit LSF V sometime in the next few years (I'm a hair away from LSF IV), but that'll be moot if I don't have anyone around me to fly with! What a bummer that'd be! James V. Bacus wrote: I've read it all before.. A guy looks at the LSF task set and they seem daunting so he figures he will redesign them. Instead of actually joining LSF and figuring what its all about its much easier to attack it from the computer on the forums, e-lists, or where ever it may get attention. Not face to face. Go after the topic many find daunting, contesting. Discover through the debate that this takes many people to pull a new organization off so maybe the LSF could help them out? Right, you started out against us. The thing I find strange is that level based system is sort of contest in itself, you obtain levels so you can compare your skill set to others. Yet some folks just don't want to do that face to face. When will some people realize almost all the hobbies you will entertain yourself with are about the people, not the toy. It's about going out and having fun with friends, it's simple as that. -- ben wilson louisville area soaring society http://www.louisvillesoaring.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://thelocust.org/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] LSF discussion
That is about the Best Summation I have ever read. Great Job Jim. chip -Original Message- From: James V. Bacus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 8:56 AM To: RCSE Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF discussion I've read it all before... A guy looks at the LSF task set and they seem daunting so he figures he will redesign them. Instead of actually joining LSF and figuring what its all about its much easier to attack it from the computer on the forums, e-lists, or where ever it may get attention. Not face to face. Go after the topic many find daunting, contesting. Discover through the debate that this takes many people to pull a new organization off so maybe the LSF could help them out? Right, you started out against us. The thing I find strange is that level based system is sort of contest in itself, you obtain levels so you can compare your skill set to others. Yet some folks just don't want to do that face to face. When will some people realize almost all the hobbies you will entertain yourself with are about the people, not the toy. It's about going out and having fun with friends, it's simple as that. At 06:43 AM 9/6/2006, Ben Wilson wrote: >"Testing the waters for a different type of LSF" >http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554577 > >It's a long one... > >Jim Deck wrote: >>OK, probably most members of RCSE are aware of it but, for those who >>aren't, a good discussion concerning the LSF is taking place in >>"Sailplane Talk" on RCGroups. Both members & non-members of the LSF may >>find it interesting. >>RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" >>and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text >>only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such >>as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format > >RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" >and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note >that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format >with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and >AOL are generally NOT in text format Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] LSF discussion
I would disagree. Jim may have not caught every post and didn't catch the disclaimers. It wasn't the originators intent to bash LSF. And I didn't see any bashing from the originator - perhaps a few of the other posts went that way but generally it was a pretty even discussion. However I would question whether you can actually design tasks and goals for folks who have generally described themselves as being against tasks and goals. After all that is what a competition is. But if they find a way to make everyone happy, I wish them well. I'm not against anything that might help others discover the joys of soaring. Rick LSF I At 09:29 AM 9/6/2006, Chip Willis wrote: That is about the Best Summation I have ever read. Great Job Jim. chip -Original Message- From: James V. Bacus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 8:56 AM To: RCSE Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF discussion I've read it all before... A guy looks at the LSF task set and they seem daunting so he figures he will redesign them. Instead of actually joining LSF and figuring what its all about its much easier to attack it from the computer on the forums, e-lists, or where ever it may get attention. Not face to face. Go after the topic many find daunting, contesting. Discover through the debate that this takes many people to pull a new organization off so maybe the LSF could help them out? Right, you started out against us. The thing I find strange is that level based system is sort of contest in itself, you obtain levels so you can compare your skill set to others. Yet some folks just don't want to do that face to face. When will some people realize almost all the hobbies you will entertain yourself with are about the people, not the toy. It's about going out and having fun with friends, it's simple as that. At 06:43 AM 9/6/2006, Ben Wilson wrote: >"Testing the waters for a different type of LSF" >http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554577 > >It's a long one... > >Jim Deck wrote: >>OK, probably most members of RCSE are aware of it but, for those who >>aren't, a good discussion concerning the LSF is taking place in >>"Sailplane Talk" on RCGroups. Both members & non-members of the LSF may >>find it interesting. >>RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" >>and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text >>only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such >>as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format > >RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" >and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note >that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format >with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and >AOL are generally NOT in text format Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: Re: [RCSE] LSF discussion
Hello Chuck!!!AMEN!!!cheersJim
[RCSE] FUN Sailplane contest in Erie Pa
TS3 is happy to announce its first contest to be held in Erie Pa. Two classes will be flown RES & Unlimited. Cost will be $5.oo per class ,all welcome ,help for those first timers. Come and have a great time with friendly people. Directions at TS3 .org
[RCSE] Erie contest Date is Sept 17
The date of the contest in ERIE is Sept 17
Re: [RCSE] OVSS #8 - Fred Contest
Ron, I think that is a very generous offer to have everyone to your house for BBQ, and I am glad you could step up and carry on this tradition. I am sorry I couldn't host it this year, but every year we did it was one of the most rewarding events of the summer. A couple of hints, forget about being the chef at your own BBQ, just let McCarthy and Henry drive. They will take over anyway. Don't bother hiding your toys, they will be found and fiddled with, probably by the same two guys that are dominating your grill. ;-) If you are planning on attending OVSS #8 this weekend with the SOAR guys in Chicago, the BBQ Saturday night is not to be missed! Jim At 08:25 AM 9/6/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carrying on the great tradition of Jim Bacus and Jim McCarthy, I will be hosting a barbecue on Saturday night, September 9 for all of the competitors, friends, and family in attendance at OVSS #8, the Fred Fredrickson Memorial Thermal Challenge. Cocktails at 6:00 PM, BBQ at 7:00 PM. Please come and enjoy. Check the link below for directions and maps will be available at the field on Saturday. Thanks, Ron Kukral SOAR Chicago From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:"John A. Walter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bill Christian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Charlie Schmitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Dave Haskins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Don Richmond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, jim bacus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, john liberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jim McCarthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jim McCarthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Walter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Len Revelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, mike McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mike Hinman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, retydd Martin Doney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rich Burnoski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick McCarthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ron Kukral <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Scott Borkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Steve Meyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tom Kallevang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tom Tock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Wayne Fredette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, William Wingstedt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:OVSS #8 - Fred Contest Date:Wed, 6 Sep 2006 13:19:15 + Content-Type: Multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_2258_1157549139_1" Carrying on the great of traditions of Jim Bacus and Jim McCarthy, I will be hosting a barbecue on Saturday night, September 9 for all of the competitors, friends, and family in attendance at OVSS #8, the Fred Fredrickson Memorial Thermal Challenge. Cocktails at 6:00 PM, BBQ at 7:00 PM. Please come and enjoy. Check the links below for directions and maps will be available at the field on Saturday. Thanks, Ron Kukral SOAR Chicago Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Slope Season at Brookville
<> I hope so, spent a lot of the last week cleaning up my slope "trash", and I catch myself obsessively checking the Weather Channel for wind forecasts - come on South 15-25 *! As an aside, anyone interested in a Brookville email distribution? I wouldn't mind keeping one, putting out weather and wind alerts over the Fall - Spring. There was even talk of slope racing, might be fun to try this year. If anyone is interested in that, let me know - I know of a couple Dayton / Indy guys that would make those runs. B. (or West 15+ for CJ Brown) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] A Change to LSF
On 9/6/2006, Tom wrote (in part): "If someone wants to set up another achievement program, I will gladly participate and still work on my LSF V in the current format. I will also volunteer to help Tom, Larry, Bill and Steve work out the details of an additional set of goals based on the needs and resources of the smaller clubs". I believe he has hit the nail on the head ... when I lived in San Diego and flew as a member of the Torrey Pines Gulls, it was easy enough to get 20 - 30 for a Sunday morning contest ... Flying on the SC2 circuit provided the opportunity to fly against 50 - 75 or more pilots on other Sundays ... I now belong to one of the most active soaring clubs in Texas and we'd be hard pressed to get enough folks out to provide contest competitors per LSF requirements or witnesses to goals achieved by other LSF'ers ... as a result, we have few LSF members ... If there ain't none, you don't get credit ... Let's at least explore the two tier system that Tom is proposing in his thoughtful e-mail ... Thanks, Pepper TPG ~ SLNTAMA # 3937LSF # 3335 - IV
[RCSE] American Aircraft Modeler Magazine plans wanted
Mr. Dario Brisighella designed a pattern plane called the Viper that won best of show at the 18th Toledo show (1971 or 72) The plans and construction article were published in the American Aircraft Modeler magazine several months after the show. I am looking for the full size plans or even the page out of the magazine that shows the reduced plans. Anybody out there have the plans or the issue of the magazine with the construction article? Thanks, S. Gibson Houston, TX RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] the "Weenies"
Many of us have been around long enough to have seen a thread of posts like those that inspired the "weenies" program recently quoted in part here. While fairly humorous, posting the "weenie" rules, did accomplish three things: created a few grins, shut up the wannabes and whiners, and, unfortunately, discouraged the few who did post intelligently. The current thread over in "Sailplane Talk" on RCGroups.com contains legitimate concerns, some voiced by LSF members, and, for the most part, is "wannabe & whiner" free. Hold the tar bucket and brush. Jim Deck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] American Aircraft Modeler magazine
Anybody out there own a copy of the January 1973 issue of American Aircraft Modeler that I can buy or borrow? Thanks, S Gibson RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Nebulus Flying Videos
Just to lighten the mood a bit, was at www.youtube.com last evening looking at a video of a 3D ship flying and kind of started watching some other flying stuff. Wow, there is some cool stuff there. Three personal favorites: Goodbye Hero-F-14 driver I think that is expousing his displeasure at the demise of the F-14 for of all things a tanker (FA-18E and so on), great take off at Key West. I Won't Flinch-take one British kid in the sand, and a buddy with a camera and add an AV-8B really low... What I Will Be in 4 years-Another Brit that is about to start flight school found some really neat French film, flying a Mirage and two Jaguars, at ridiculously low altittude near the beach and shipping, great music too. Sorry that I did not get the URL's but long and I figured you could go there and do a quick search. Marc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] LSF - a personal achievement program for Don Quixote?
The LSF is said to be a personal achievement program. If this is so, how come you have to beat 20 (at level 5) other people in a contest as a requirement? Not exactly personal. With the number of interested parties declining in R/C soaring, and the current structure requiring some number of contestants (defeated) being the metric of the contesting component of the LSF, it seems unlikely that the program will grow. More realistically, it will decline as the necessity to seek out a contest with enough contestants just isn't practical or maybe even possible in most of the country. And it's been that way for a long time. We have the choice of "ride it till it dies" or "adapt and overcome". Soaring is fun because of the lack of rules. Contesting injects both structure and rules and is fine for those of us who need it. But for anything, a program, a sport or a government to survive, it must adapt to suit those involved. In my opinion, if the LSF (task structure philosophy) remains arrogant enough to decline change, in the end the accomplishment program will either be ignored or just won't exist. D.O. Darnell LSF 249/4 (since 75?) . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Nebulus Flying Videos
The links I think . . . On 9/6/06, Marc Gellart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just to lighten the mood a bit, was at www.youtube.com last evening looking at a video of a 3D ship flying and kind of started watching some other flying stuff. Wow, there is some cool stuff there. Three personal favorites: Goodbye Hero-F-14 driver I think that is expousing his displeasure at the demise of the F-14 for of all things a tanker (FA-18E and so on), great take off at Key West. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Nyp9IExm0 I Won't Flinch-take one British kid in the sand, and a buddy with a camera and add an AV-8B really low... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbqQr2EEtHA What I Will Be in 4 years-Another Brit that is about to start flight school found some really neat French film, flying a Mirage and two Jaguars, at ridiculously low altittude near the beach and shipping, great music too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qlFBepviys Sorry that I did not get the URL's but long and I figured you could go there and do a quick search. Marc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion
Jack, Yes we are now competiting with like ships, but I am guessing Pike perfect would be a whole lot easier to get a 6.2 mile Goal and Return than it was with a Sailair. Both are capable of completing the task, one would be much more efficient at completing the task than the other. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS - Original Message - From: Jack Iafret To: Pat McCleave Cc: RCSE Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion I have stayed out of this foray but will offer only one clarification. When you talk about the planes of yor, we all flew those. Today we all fly what is out there today so the competition is just as meaningful as it was 20 years ago. It is not moldies against woodies but the playing field is still level. It is just as hard today as it was 20 years ago, in fact for me it is harder because age is catching up with capability.BTW, got most of my LV wins with the woodies. Have needed the 8 hour for about 12-15 years and never had the desire to do it to complete the V. Jack On 9/6/06, Pat McCleave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Guys,Here is my 2 cents worth on the topic. First off, I am currently a Level III Pilot needing only my Goal and Return to complete Level IV. I plan to continue under the current guidlines to strive to reach Level V. I am going to do so because I have always felt like and still do feel like the LSF program is strictly a personal accomplishment program and always will be. I have had to complete Level IV basically twice because I lost my original voucher with only needing to compete in one more contest to complete it. Oh well, big deal it is all about the journey anyway and it was fun to do it all again. I know for me to ever reach Level V, I am going to have to travel and do so a lot to get there. The deal is, you not only have to find the contests with 20 or more contestants you have to beat 19 or more of those contestants 3 times to complete your task. I may never complete the journey, but I will never regret starting it and working my way along the path. I have met many friends along the way and hope to meet many more before I am done. With all that being said, I personally think there would be nothing wrong at all with some of the suggestions being made for a two tier system. The idea of a two tier system will not change the overall accomplishment put forth by the program. It will just give another program in which to persue. The arguement of How Dare do you Change the Current System is every bit as outdated and and old as the arguement to change it. I am sure glad that we did not all pose the same arguement when it came to new glider designs over the same time period that the LSF has been in existance. If you are all so worried about protecting the accomplishment of those that came before us in getting to Level V then do the tasks with the same types of planes they used instead of the latest and greatest world beater molded plane. Change is not always evil, and in most cases will promote growth, new interest, and even revives old interest. Okay, I will step down and let the next guy have his turn at this.See Ya,Pat McCleaveWichita, KSRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com. Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jack IafretHome and Hobbies
Re: [RCSE] LSF - a personal achievement program for Don Quixote?
I think it depends on how the phrase "Personal Achievement" is viewed. Personally, I view it just the way I read it Personal Achievement If people are truly interested in promoting rc sailplane interest, it will have to be done at the club level and it doesn't have to have anything to do with contests. Let's get a little creative. The dying soaring clubs are not a result of LSF, they are a result of poor management and self interest. The folks that enjoy contests are not necessarily the same folks that enjoy fun flying, in my view we are talking two different personalities here. And one doesn't understand the other's view very well. The contest type are the guys that fly much more, practice landings, spend more money on travel and sailplanes and in general are very serious about their Personal Soaring Achievement. Many (if not most) of the contest guys are doing the work required to put on contests. This group needs new blood to continue having meaningful contests and they are the ones that will have to come up with the ideas to promote new blood. I believe they will have to get serious about club management and promotion if they want contestants at their contests. The sport flyer is just that, doesn't fly much compared to the contest guys, views the hobby as a hobby and when he flys, his goal is usually to see how long he can stay up doesn't need a club, a public park or private field will do. This group doesn't set performance goals or have any desire to measure their flying skills against someone else or group. There is a third group. the in betweeners ... they want recognition, but are not located near contests, or don't do well in contests, or don't have the money required to compete. This is likely the group interested in a no contest required achievement program. The new curve (challenge) to clubs and soaring contests is the electric powered sailplane flyer, now you have a mass interest in rc flying that requires no club, no large field to put up a winch or hi start, no contests ( they hate contests) and they can learn all they need to know on the internet.. So where are new people going to come from ? Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters - Original Message - From: "d. o. darnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 8:50 PM Subject: [RCSE] LSF - a personal achievement program for Don Quixote? > The LSF is said to be a personal achievement program. If this is so, how > come you have to beat 20 (at level 5) other people in a contest as a > requirement? Not exactly personal. With the number of interested parties > declining in R/C soaring, and the current structure requiring some number > of contestants (defeated) being the metric of the contesting component of > the LSF, it seems unlikely that the program will grow. More > realistically, it will decline as the necessity to seek out a contest with > enough contestants just isn't practical or maybe even possible in most of > the country. And it's been that way for a long time. We have the choice of > "ride it till it dies" or "adapt and overcome". > > Soaring is fun because of the lack of rules. Contesting injects both > structure and rules and is fine for those of us who need it. But for > anything, a program, a sport or a government to survive, it must adapt to > suit those involved. In my opinion, if the LSF (task structure > philosophy) remains arrogant enough to decline change, in the end the > accomplishment program will either be ignored or just won't exist. > > D.O. Darnell > LSF 249/4 (since 75?) > > > > > > . > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] LSF Comments
I may be the newest LSF applicant. I signed up Sunday. I may be new to LSF but I am far from new to flying RC. I will be 64 later this month. I am a senior manager in the work place. The most important thing I have ever learned is that just because we have always done it that way is insufficient reason to keep doing it that way. You can apply it to anything including LSF. I joined in spite of the contest requirements. I am not a competitive person and don't want to be. Some pilots are lucky and some are good. Over time, skill will rise to the top, but in any given contest, the winner can be the pilot that was up when the air was good. I don't expect to reach LV, heavens, I haven't even done LI yet. I have vision problems and I can't go 8 hours without a head stop or two. It just seems to me that there should be a way other than BEATING someone to demonstrate a skill level has been reached. This is especially true if, as many messages indicate, the numbers of sailplane pilots are decreasing. With the cost of travel what it is and is unlikely to decrease, going to six or ten contests in a year can be a burden that some folks just cannot bear. With the cost of a competitive plane, radio and associated equipment, one can sink 3 - 5000 bucks in a heartbeat. What the "We have always done it that way" attitude is causing is pricing the hobby out of the reach of newbys. There needs to be a less expensive way to gain the experience and to recognize the resultant increase in skill levels. We all have our own comments about how much we spend on our hobby. In my neck of the woods "R/C airplanes are cheaper than bass boats" As for me, I am going to go as far as I can with what I got. Harold Jackson RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF Comments
In a message dated 9/6/2006 11:28:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for me, I am going to go as far as I can with what I got. Well said! The LSF program is an offer, not a mandate. One can pursue as much or as little of it as one wishes (and many have been quite comfortable with that!). The question at hand is whether a less demanding/more convenient soaring achievement program should be offered by the LSF (or somebody) AND whether this would constructively advance the RC Soaring sport (ie, is it WORTH the trouble to run it!). The current contest environment is indeed experiencing lowering participation, in large part (I think) because the entry path has become steep and expensive (as you very accurately observed). I personally think this can be improved at the club level by providing competition opportunities more suited to what the new guy/sport flyer has/can afford. Some will catch the fever and move up (maybe), but at least more will get hands-on exposure and make up their minds on the basis of experience rather than opinion Enuf - my club is running a regional contest this weekend, and we sincerely hope, and will bust our butts, such that all of our 40-50 entries, representing novices to (really!) World Class pilots, all have a really great time! Good Lift!
Re: [RCSE] Re: LSF Discussion
In this particular instance, no one is attempting to change the "yardstick" that is the LSF achievement program. They are simply suggesting one that isn't so dependent upon contesting and the employ of other LSF members - specifically to bring more people into the soaring fold. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: from English to Metric measurement -- or the absolute length of the "yardstick". Far too many talented people have already been "measured" (and re-measured and re-re-re-measured -- i.e., Don Harris) against the same yardstick. Anything else is "outcome-based" soaring. -- ben wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://thelocust.org/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] LSF Discussion
Hi Guys, Here is my 2 cents worth on the topic. First off, I am currently a Level III Pilot needing only my Goal and Return to complete Level IV. I plan to continue under the current guidlines to strive to reach Level V. I am going to do so because I have always felt like and still do feel like the LSF program is strictly a personal accomplishment program and always will be. I have had to complete Level IV basically twice because I lost my original voucher with only needing to compete in one more contest to complete it. Oh well, big deal it is all about the journey anyway and it was fun to do it all again. I know for me to ever reach Level V, I am going to have to travel and do so a lot to get there. The deal is, you not only have to find the contests with 20 or more contestants you have to beat 19 or more of those contestants 3 times to complete your task. I may never complete the journey, but I will never regret starting it and working my way along the path. I have met many friends along the way and hope to meet many more before I am done. With all that being said, I personally think there would be nothing wrong at all with some of the suggestions being made for a two tier system. The idea of a two tier system will not change the overall accomplishment put forth by the program. It will just give another program in which to persue. The arguement of How Dare do you Change the Current System is every bit as outdated and and old as the arguement to change it. I am sure glad that we did not all pose the same arguement when it came to new glider designs over the same time period that the LSF has been in existance. If you are all so worried about protecting the accomplishment of those that came before us in getting to Level V then do the tasks with the same types of planes they used instead of the latest and greatest world beater molded plane. Change is not always evil, and in most cases will promote growth, new interest, and even revives old interest. Okay, I will step down and let the next guy have his turn at this. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Futaba transmitter modules for sale
I have 3 modules, one each on 30, 38, and 46. These were for my 8uap, which I no longer own, so don’t need ‘em. $30 shipped each. Thx, Matt
Re: [RCSE] Re: LSF Discussion
Fellas, this has all been covered in the Weenie Manifesto as promulgated by the Weenies of Soaring and leaked to outsiders by someone on the Grand Weenie Council. You can go to the Yahoo soaring group where our archives are stored, Files section, and see a file there of a post from March 7, 2002 (weenie.pdf). Or click the following url: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/4ET_ROkksrryW_mTtwDg1GQ3L--mI0QPaikArk9_CWfk9CZhJcfvJR9mXJmvjtsF2oU8zc4mTrVonZAI9xjsAG-8wkLWp6k/weenie.pdf The Weenie Manifesto, for those who don't remember, clarifies all that was wrong with our sport in 2002 and remains wrong today. Its three Articles are designed to straighten out the issues of expensive planes, unfair contest rules, and the present topic, viz., the LSF program. Article III is reprinted below for your delectation. Article III. Weenie Achievement We, the Weenies of Soaring, find nothing so preposterous as the endless list of tedious requirements for the various LSF levels. Why are the time requirements so long? Why not rethink the distance tasks so they can be accomplished without leaving the club field? The contest requirements are the most incomprehensible. A win is a win, no matter how many competitors were in the event or what their ability. Originally, we wished to demand that the LSF overhaul their outmoded and convoluted achievement program. However, we despair of ever talking sense to that stubborn organization. Therefore, we have adopted our own achievement program. We are proud to announce the Weenie Wings Soaring Achievement Award, which has not V but VI levels, thus immediately establishing its superiority over you-know-who. Every task is well within the ability of all Weenies of Soaring, and can be completed without inconvenience or discomfort, so we are certain that this award will quickly gain wide recognition and acceptance. For full details, see our website, and you'll soon be on your way to earning your own Weenie Wings. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: LSF Discussion
On 07/09/2006, at 7:14 AM, Ben Wilson wrote: In this particular instance, no one is attempting to change the "yardstick" that is the LSF achievement program. They are simply suggesting one that isn't so dependent upon contesting and the employ of other LSF members - specifically to bring more people into the soaring fold. Ben is quite correct. The "Sportsman" program under discussion would be parallel to the existing LSF program not a replacement, and the LSF administration have made it clear that their support would be dependant on the program not diminishing the existing SAP or the LSF. Much of the discussion has been about finding ways of replacing the competition requirement with non-competition tasks that provide a comparable level of challenge and skill development. Tom Kallevang has suggested that the program should also be attractive to current LSF members. In short this would not be a soft option for those who want the kudos without effort. cheers Paul RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] info
Anyone know how I can contact John Ferguson (from Michigan). He flew 2M and UNL at the NATs..Hutch?? Michigan dudes? Thanks AJ BSS, Lexington RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Fw: SWSA Bent Wing BBQ
Here is a reminder for the SWSA Bent Wing BBQ on Sept. 17. Let me know if you plan to attend so we can get the food ordered. Hope to see you there. Dan - Original Message - From: "Dan Borer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "SWSA E-group" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "[RCSE]" Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 7:17 PM Subject: SWSA Bent Wing BBQ Hi All-- Summer is beginning to wind down and SWSA hasn't had their annual Bent Wing BBQ yet so here is some info to help you plan an enjoyable day of flying at Fish Canyon, along with some great barbequed food from Canyon City Barbeque in Azusa. This contest is open to all RES sailplanes and rudder/elevator electrics. Yes, electrics can be flown too as long as they don't have flaps or ailerons. They'll fly the same tasks and landings. Rules will be covered at the pilot's meeting. This event will be five rounds consisting of 3, 5, 7, 5 and 3 minutes. Lunch will be served near the end of the 7 minute round and we'll keep the event moving while lunch is served. Registration will open at 9:00 AM with the pilot's meeting at 10:00 AM and the first round to open immediately after the meeting. Entry is $10.00 per pilot, including lunch. Additional lunches may be purchased for $7.00 each. The event notice can be found at http://silent-wings.org/popoff/BentWingBBQ.htm . If you plan to attend please send a note to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so we can get an idea of how much food to order. More info and directions can be found at the SWSA website at www.silent-wings.org . We hope to see you for a fun filled day of flying. Dan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Masters Pilot Roster Update
The Pilot roster was updated on the Soaring Masters website: http://www.worldsoaringmasters.com/blog/general/PilotRoster2006.html This is looking like a strong contest! Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] 2M Re-Visited
cool-- got any pictures? tgm -Original Message- From: David Register [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:57 AM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] 2M Re-Visited As a diversion from the LSF angst, I'd like to briefly resurrect an old thread. Shortly after NATS there was a flurry of dialog regarding 2M design. My comments, in general, suggested there was still some room to upgrade 2M designs, look more closely at the Drela airfoils, optimize planforms at the wing loadings we could achieve, etc. etc. So for the last 6-8 weeks that's been a fun project. The result is a poly, aptly named the Kahuna 1.8 (2M doesn't quite fit in the bed of my truck so we opted for 72" span). Although a poly, it's intended to be a validation platform for trying a few things out. Basically a V-tail, pod and boom, Drela section, optimized planform for the wing loading and still winchable at an AUW of 19.5oz. The structures are basically similar to DLG but without the need for a sub-rudder. Other than that (and swapping out the airfoils), it's more or less a discus on steroids RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] 2M Re-Visited
In a message dated 9/6/2006 2:07:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yeah, it probably won't take a pedal-to-the-metal-full-bore-stomp-on-it winch launch. Dr Mark D's Allegro Lite sure as heck does! (awesome to watch!). Good Lift!
Re: [RCSE] LSF discussion
At 11:08 PM 9/5/2006, you wrote: OK, probably most members of RCSE are aware of it but, for those who aren't, a good discussion concerning the LSF is taking place in "Sailplane Talk" on RCGroups. Both members & non-members of the LSF may find it interesting. Here we go again with the same old discussion for the umpteenth time by the same people who want awards without doing the work to run such a program. Let somebody else do it and they will reap the rewards. Rode this Mary-go-around too many times. One thing this discussion has done was to liven up RCSE. Things were getting so slow I was thinking of posting part 3 of my last war story. Chuck Andeson LSF IV LSF583, NSS 72,361 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] World's Largest Bubble Dancer
Ok... that's just cool... On 9/4/06, Arne Ansper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi!Spotted this in September issue of IEEE Spectrum: http://home.cyber.ee/arne/bd.jpgArneRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring-request@airage.com . Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF discussion
On Wed, 6 Sep 2006, Ben Wilson wrote: mean "new people", but also some "new ideas" - and I'll give an ear to just about anyone who has an idea that might help me put more people in my club and more planes in the air. (Young) people are unaware that such thing as R/C soaring exists. It might be worthwhile to show the cool side of this hobby to masses. Like get one of those nice videos Paul Naton and Dave Reese put out and show it on Discovery or some other appropriate channel. Or make a reality show where 10 beautiful models learn to fly 10 beautiful models. regards, Arne RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF discussion
I've read it all before... A guy looks at the LSF task set and they seem daunting so he figures he will redesign them. Instead of actually joining LSF and figuring what its all about its much easier to attack it from the computer on the forums, e-lists, or where ever it may get attention. Not face to face. Go after the topic many find daunting, contesting. Discover through the debate that this takes many people to pull a new organization off so maybe the LSF could help them out? Right, you started out against us. The thing I find strange is that level based system is sort of contest in itself, you obtain levels so you can compare your skill set to others. Yet some folks just don't want to do that face to face. When will some people realize almost all the hobbies you will entertain yourself with are about the people, not the toy. It's about going out and having fun with friends, it's simple as that. At 06:43 AM 9/6/2006, Ben Wilson wrote: "Testing the waters for a different type of LSF" http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554577 It's a long one... Jim Deck wrote: OK, probably most members of RCSE are aware of it but, for those who aren't, a good discussion concerning the LSF is taking place in "Sailplane Talk" on RCGroups. Both members & non-members of the LSF may find it interesting. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Taborca
Anyone actually flying one of these? Tom Broeski 32 Mount View Dr Afton, VA 22920 540 943-3356 fx 943-4178 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Taborca
That's what happens no body over there wants to help. I am having the same problem with my Sperber. I need a new nose cone and Krause Models will not answer my emails. I have sent them in both German and English. John Derstien was the only one that I knew that delt with them. To Soaring If somebody out there baught the extra nose cone that John had Let me know. I know he had one I had him order it when I got the plane. I needed it for a spare. I would like to buy it. -- Ken York County Soaring "Lighthorse" Team YCS Silence is Golden RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
