Re: [RCSE] stuck on mandrel
Instead of mylar, use a thin release film spiral wrapped around the mandrel. You should be able to pull out the mandrel then pull out the release film. You can use steel rods if you want something more consistent than a dowel. Jimmy Prouty wrote: Hi Tony, Did you spiral wrap the mylar over the mandrel? I've found that I can grab the mylar with a pair of duck bill pliers and gently wrap the mylar around them to pull it out of the tube. It sticks once in a while but I can usually reach in and pull the stuck piece out with hemostats. Happy flying, Jimmy www.jtmodels.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] I Beat Gordy Buttons will be around a long time
Is there going to be a button that says I Beat Gordy so many times I lost count? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After all the hype I keep hearing regarding Gordy's attempts to get Level 5, I have to provide him with a few insights: 11) Has anyone told him that his thermal, slope and cross country flights expire after 50 contests? Now I just wonder what those Buttons look like? Can someone out there please post a closeup??? I have my own ideas for a button! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Pumpkin Fly and Tangerine.. How about Cumberland...
But will Gordy be going to the 40th annual Cumberland Soar for Fun this weekend? http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566503 http://www.soarcasa.org/Events/Cumberland_Flyer.pdf RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Pumpkin Fly and Tangerine.. How about Cumberland...
Yes, but Gordy still probably needs his 8 hour slope task And the road up to the top of the slope is perfect for models falling off the back of his truck. ;-) Pat McCleave wrote: Mike, You ought to know by now that Gordy can't Soar For Fun anymore. With all the guys out there trying to get their I Beat Gordy Buttons, he has to take all his soaring dead serious now. See Ya, Pat (Still have not beat Gordy YET) McCleave Wichita, KS Ps, Gordy be Scared, be Very Scared They are all coming to get you. - Original Message - From: Michael Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Soaring@airage.com Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:58 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Pumpkin Fly and Tangerine.. How about Cumberland... But will Gordy be going to the 40th annual Cumberland Soar for Fun this weekend? http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566503 http://www.soarcasa.org/Events/Cumberland_Flyer.pdf RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] From John Diniz
What a rough job, putting in all those flights on all kinds of different models to do this testing ;-) Darwin N. Barrie wrote: John is having email problems and asked me to repost for him. Here is his comments regarding the Spread Spectrum. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ Subject: RE: [RCSE] Spread Spectrum...Chat Gold, Fools Gold or ? Ok guys fact time We've been flying the DX7 tx and AR7000 rx for some time now in over 200 different planes. From GS aerobatic planes with 150cc ignition engines to Turbines and Heli's (gas/glow and electric). BTW-Turbines are THE most unfriendly RF enviroment out there in the RC world. And even sailplanes with carbon kevlar fuselages and carbon booms. Altitudes achieved during testing were past 2000ft AGL and not directly over-head. These are facts and not smoke and mirror tricks or slick advertising campains. For those who know me you know I wouldn't BS about any of this. And for those who don't well ask someone who does. The technology is here and it works. John Diniz Catagory Manager Horizon Hobby Inc. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Full Range Spread Spektrum, the DX7
The DX7 manual is virtually identical to the JR XP7202 which by the way has the synthesizer programmed via the menu, not switches like on the modules. I put togther a 6 servo program on the 7202 for sailplanes. This gives you the following mixes/presets Aileron to Rudder Aileron to Flap Coupling Elevator to Camber, full span Two Camber Presets (Launch and Reflex if you have a TD ship) With a 7 channel RX, you can do the following. Channels on a 7 channel JR RX Thro - Left Flap Aile - Right Aileron Elev - Elevator Rudd - Rudder Aux1 - Left Aileron Aux2 - Right Flap Setup Wing Type - Flaperons, V-tail as required Switches, Aux2 [Inhibit], Aux2 Trim [Inhibit] Flap [System], Flap Trim [Inhibit] Left 3-position switch will be down for launch, up for reflex Programmable Mixers Aile - Rudder +10, +10 (Only one aileron to rudder mix is available, but you could turn it off) Elev-Flap Mix +20, +20 (This is elevator to camber for the ailerons) Mix1 Elev - Throttle, +20 +20 (This is for elevator to camber for the flaps) Mix2 Aileron - Aux2 +50, +50 (Part of Aileron to Flap mix) Mix3 Aileron - Thro +25, +25 (Part of Aileron to Flap mix) Note that the numbers are different for aileron to aux2 and aileron to throttle because the Aileron to throttle changes both flaps so Mix2 must negate that. That is why the value of Mix2 is double Mix3 Mix4 Flap - Throttle +70, +70 (This is lap system preset mix into the flaps, Use Flap System meny for preset settings for the ailerons) Mix5 Thro - Elevator 0, -30, 100 Offset (This is your elevator compensation for landing) Mix 6 Thro - Aux2 -100, -100 (This is to get second flap mixed in. Note -100 values) Flap System, Use Up Flap value for Reflex and Down Flap value for Launch. You can also use elevator presets in there if you need a little elevator offset for launch or reflex. (Or you can use reflex and camber if you don't need launch like on the slope) What is missing is from the program that you normally have in a sailplane program: Multiple aileron to rudder mix settings. Change differential in launch or other flight modes Changing aileron position when landing for crow/butterfly You could probably trade off crow mixing of ailerons with aileron to flap mixing if you wanted. tony estep wrote: Jim, I'm reading the Spektrum manual and I don't see any wing type for 4-servo wings with separate flaps and ailerons. I'm probably missing some obvious work-around, but on first glance it doesn't look as if they gave the sailplane boys much of a thought when they designed the programming. - Original Message I am all over this, full range spread spectrum just announced today... the day is getting close when we will never bother with frequency pins again. ;-) Check out the new DX7 http://www.spektrumrc.com/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Full Range Spread Spektrum, the DX7
The 6102 really can't handle more than one flap very nicely. The 7202 program and DX7 is a lot nicer than the 6102 and far superior to the DX6. Still, there is nothing like the 9303 for sailplanes For those who like toys for the bad weather, check out the Blade CX2. It has Spread Spectrum RX instead of the old 4-in-1 unit. If you really want to deal in speculation, check out http://www.vit.or.jp/~tomo/gami/tokyohobby2006/tokyohobby2006.html for your picture of the JR 12X which looks simlar to the 10X case with the 9303 display and cricket for the user interface. And the display has 3in1 12ch inbetween the japanese text. Rick Eckel wrote: Geez. You gotta learn to relax a little bit. This radio isn't advertised as a sailplane radio. Notice that it says its for helicopters and airplanes. Its a mistake to read too much into that. If you look at the JR line of radios you will clearly see that they know the difference between airplanes and sailplanes. Wait for the sailplane version and I think you will find it more to your liking. Of course you could by this on and live with a few limitations if you wanted to. I know a number of guys who 'saved money' by buying the 6102 to fly their sailplanes. Now they want to know how to make it do all those sailplane things. I am heartened that their descriptions of its range capability includes unlimited sailplanes but I wouldn't take that to mean that this particular radio is targeted at that audience. I would take it to mean that they can release a sailplane version at some point. I'd be real surprised if an equivalent to the 9303 isn't in the works. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] DX7 range
You're dealing with two receivers for redundancy. The AR7000 is actually split into two boards with about a 6 inch connection between them so the two RX can get different RF environments. I guess you could throw one in the fuse and one in the wing on a sailplane. I don't know if you can extend the connection between the two boards. For those who want to RTFM http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo/Files/SPM2710_DX7_Manual.pdf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, the web site says Limits of Vision. Sounds sufficient but I have to ask: How much signal power does it put out? Or, is it just used car salesman talk. Bill Swingle Janesville, CA I have to question this too, because 2.4ghz is limited in power output and it doesn't travel (propagate) well. I know people are having good results with these radios and I wouldn't hesitate to use one on any small airplane that would be within 1000ft. I have personal experience with video feeds on both 2.4ghz and 1.2ghz. and 1.2 has much better range, but both freqs. will not go through trees, so if you fly behind a tree and the radio doesn't have last frame hold you could completely go out of control. real world use will decide if this is an issue or not, but the bottom line is that high frequencies at low power have poor range and there is a lot of stuff on 2.4ghz to screw up your signal when the primary signal is lost. I would really like to see spread spectrum on 72mhz. but it probably isn't a high enough frequency to work at a high resolution All of that being said, if they made a module for my 9C, I would buy it in a heart beat... Mark Mech www.aerofoam.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] FS One Simulator
Anyone out there try out the FS One flight simulator? It includes Aerotow, Winch, High Start, Slope, and Dynamic Soaring. If you were wondering about the aerodynamics and modeling behind the simulator, it's what Michael Selig has been working on for the past few years. Really cool part is the modeling of the crash damage. It's a blast trying to see what crashes look like inside some of the buildings or hitting the garbage cans sitting on the gym floor. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Wanted Info on Bubble Dancer
If you're interested in scratch building one: Articles/plans http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/bubbledancer/markdrela-bubbledancer-3m.htm Great online help group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Allegro-Lite/ Laser Arts rib/web short kit http://www.mountainmodels.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_30products_id=189osCsid=6994c3d46407b2e863a3293711366387 Booms available from polecataero.com. The one built to the plans will be lighter than the polecataero version but takes a bit more effort in building. You will not be disappointed by the performance. Morris McKenna wrote: All your questions can be answered here. http://www.polecataero.com/ Bernie wrote: I'm interested in information on this plane. Who can I contact, Kit, etc., costs, if someone has been flying one, how does it perform? 3 piece wing sections, how long? My work bench is only 48 since I moved to an apartment. Number of servos and sizes. Any help would be appreciated.SKI RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] cute photo
And of course, you can find custom anything on the Internet. http://www.decaldriveway.com/searchProduct.asp?search=peeon Jon Stone wrote: http://www.f3b.de/link/html/Bildergalerie/sp_index.php?file=./2006/Kirchheim-Open/kirchheim-open-06_061.jpg http://www.f3b.de/link/html/Bildergalerie/sp_index.php?file=./2006/Kirchheim-Open/kirchheim-open-06_061.jpg or if you prefer... http://tinyurl.com/fbec3 http://tinyurl.com/fbec3 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion update # CAL P. ##
The LSF page has all the Level V achievers and when they completed then. http://www.silentflight.org/LSF_Base/achievers.htm Bob Champine was the first to do Level V twice. http://hometown.aol.com/GRC6431/myhomepage/ And Don Harris has three. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/14/2006 4:24:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I believe Cal Posthuma has achieved Level V TWICE with a hand-built wood airplane He's probably 'one of one' that has done that ... Too many people are forgetting the beginnings of this sport and believe that 'newer is better' ... in some cases, that's correct ... in others, not so !! ... Pepper RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Clarification- ESL Contest was tough on me today and Deleware's top pilo...
Maybe we can have LSF Gordy Levels where you accumulate points based on the number of times you beat Gordy. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/11/2006 9:54:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GordySoar writes: Okay, It was gonna come out sooner or later, but they bribed me with BBQ Chicken and Slaw to take a dive, in order to boost club morale! And I had to fly blindfolded :-) Gordy :-) This man has NO shame! (you all knew that!) Good Lift! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Clarification- ESL Contest was tough on me today and Deleware's top pilo...
That's true. Even Butch beat gordy. At least that is what the T-shirt said. Sheldon-YNT uDesign wrote: But would it REALLY be meaningful??? -Original Message- From: Michael Lachowski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 9:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: Clarification- ESL Contest was tough on me today and Deleware's top pilo... Maybe we can have LSF Gordy Levels where you accumulate points based on the number of times you beat Gordy. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/11/2006 9:54:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GordySoar writes: Okay, It was gonna come out sooner or later, but they bribed me with BBQ Chicken and Slaw to take a dive, in order to boost club morale! And I had to fly blindfolded :-) Gordy :-) This man has NO shame! (you all knew that!) Good Lift! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra ? Who couples flaps to ailerons?: Drela repost
If you are worried about keeping the wing clean, put in more dihedral and use rudder only. If you factor in bad designs and bad airfoils, there is definitely no one 'right' answer. Douglas, Brent wrote: Now I'm really confused, even though I know the 'right' answer. I had a very good flyer sell me on the opposite - just ailerons for turning, keeping the center section of the wing 'clean'. I'm torn here - leverage really favors the outer surface, how much do you really get from the flap help? Lift, B. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] US F3B Team Selections
I think that you could always do that. It's just no one ever knew. Key point is getting the money direct to the AMA and getting it designated for the team so you get your tax deduction. I don't know why the AMA couldn't accept the other forms of donations since they are a qualified non-profit. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 8/21/2006 3:08:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As far as I know, at this time there is no general fund or account for US Soaring teams support. Hmmm, might be an idea though... This year (for the first time I remember) one could make tax deductible donations to the F3J Worlds team via AMA HQ. No reason this couldn't be expanded/continued. Even better if the AMA would make provisions to accept donations of appreciated stock shares. Good Lift! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Winch pedal
I like the Linemaster Aqualine switch in Orange. Part number 971-S) or Newark InOne part number 04M4829 Brian Smith wrote: Bob brown is looking for a winch pedal or a place to purchase one.. Have one? Or a web site to purchase one? Please drop Bob a note @ brownbobe at charter dot net. Thanks Brian Smith RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Winch pedal
Listed the wrong Newark part number. Try 93B9929 which is in stock but non RoHS compliant so don't eat the lead in your foot pedal. ;-) Michael Lachowski wrote: I like the Linemaster Aqualine switch in Orange. Part number 971-S) or Newark InOne part number 04M4829 Brian Smith wrote: Bob brown is looking for a winch pedal or a place to purchase one.. Have one? Or a web site to purchase one? Please drop Bob a note @ brownbobe at charter dot net. Thanks Brian Smith RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] JR 368 BB Servos
The case size is slightly different. The servo is just a little bit higher. I haven't taken them apart to see if case tops can be swapped or anything like that. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i believe the 368BB just replaced the standard DS368. Dave Hauch www.git-r-built.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring@airage.com Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 4:54 PM Subject: [RCSE] JR 368 BB Servos The ever-popular JR 368 servo now has a ball bearing cousin. I have a couple of regular 368s that have enough slop so that they do not provide precise centering and a sloppy control surface, but, JR says that they are within spec. Does anyone know if the case for a 368 BB can be swapped for a regular 368? I assume Horizon will the 368BB cases. Ron Kukral SOAR Chicago RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] After the 2006 NATS - 2 Meter Comments
I think I was 2nd or 3rd last year with a 45 point flight. This year, I was 7th with a 10 point flight. Boom failed on launch. Borrowed an Organic for the last few flights. rdwoebke wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Marc Gellart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ya, one flew, it was Mike Lackowski's(sp), and it blew up about half way through the event... Marc Ouch. Keep in mind Mike took top 10 with a 2 meter Aegea he built (it well may be this exact one) last year. Ryan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] F3J Scoring question
You are correct, team scores are for the preliminary rounds. Flyoffs don't count for team scores. Mark Howard wrote: How do you compute team scores when the pilot's final finishing positions are determined in the flyoffs? Are the team positions calculated on the pre-flyoff scores? Thanks! Mark RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] 2M Rambles
If I want a challenge, I fly F3b. 2M is nonexistant on the east coast. As long as they stick 2M in the middle of the week, I'll fly it to pass the time. I'd rather see 2 days of RES than 2M. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] 2M Rambles
Paul Emerson wrote: I noticed a 2M with Drela Derivative airfoils at Sal's site: http://nesail.com/detail.php?productID=5125 Has anyone seen it in person yet? Looks promising. Looks pretty ugly to me. A small fin in front of a huge stab. They should have done it the other way around. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] After the 2006 NATS - 2 Meter Comments
Another way to look at it is if you throw enough ducks at a problem, you'll find one that works. I'm happy that everyone else likes to fly Ducks. tony estep wrote: From: Marc Gellart [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would take note that the Organic was the 2m ship prior to this year. At the Nats, there has never been any ship with greater numbers than the 2M Duck. The Organic in many areas holds sway cause of it's availablility, and it is a decent ship, but Ducks have always had the numbers behind them here. == Yep, agreed. The Organic was the best design that was readily available. But despite the maximum difficulty of getting a Duck (I saw a used one for sale for $1000), many top pilots have gravitated to it since it first appeared, because it has the right design to win 2M. That's what's interesting to me. Its low AR, fairly high wing loading, and high operating CL are all at the opposite end of the spectrum from the current fashion in Unlimited, where light planes with long, skinny, thin-section wings flying at low coefficient of lift are appearing all over the place. I guess it proves that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] After the 2006 NATS - 2 Meter Comments
Preliminary review is the tail boom failed. Didn't blow up the wing, that would be hard to do. Marc Gellart wrote: Ya, one flew, it was Mike Lackowski's(sp), and it blew up about half way through the event... Marc - Original Message - From: Paul Jacobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: tony estep [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: RCSE soaring@airage.com Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] After the 2006 NATS - 2 Meter Comments Was anyone flying the Mark Drela designed Aegea 2M at the NATS? The design for the Aegea 2M was posted to the Allegro-Lite group in August 2002, so it seems to be contemporaneous with the Mantis 2M the Organic 2M. On 29/07/2006, at 11:00 AM, tony estep wrote: From: Jim Deck [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...the dominant design utilized by the top ten finishers was the venerable Duck... A very fine post in its entirety, Jim. 2-Meters is a world unto itself, and when good flyers go at it, it's a very worthwhile event. You have to launch to the moon, then find lift quick, because the little planes come down in a hurry and don't travel well if you hit sink. The dominance of the Duck design seems to me to have some interesting implications. U.S. flyers generally have disdained V- tail airplanes, but the Duck shows that they can learn to love 'em if the tail is big enough. Additionally, the Duck has a fairly low AR wing and is pretty heavy; these characteristics don't match the current fashion, but in this class they seem to prove out to be best in practice. It would be neat to see a resurgence of interest in 2M, just to see what other design tweaks might come along. It seems that there hasn't been much design activity in this class since the Organic and 2M Mantis. Maybe there's a world-beater out there to be discovered. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to soaring- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] After the 2006 NATS - 2 Meter Comments
Marc Gellart wrote: Ya, one flew, it was Mike Lackowski's(sp), and it blew up about half way through the event... And I still finished in 7th with a 10 point round flying the last few rounds with a borrowed Organic, thanks Pete. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] JR Synth rx - in a Duck
Been flying R2000's for a while. It's nice to not worry about xtals any more. Or course, the R790 will be nice for the smaller models and to save a little weight compared to the 10 channel RX. For all the transmitter impaired, you can also get a R720 FM RX from JR. Same form factor as R700, just FM. James V. Bacus wrote: At 06:22 PM 6/23/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Being a JR product I'm betting that it will work pretty well. Yup! ;-) Those who say that 2 meters suck are missing something. They are different. They don't have the same L/D, granted. But my unlimited ships don't have near the roll rate of a 2 meter. The silly things are a lot of fun. I agree, rolls are funkadelic with a 2m. I can thermal loop at high speed, and do rolls over the top... the last time I flew my 2m a couple a weeks ago I was just shreading the thermals. Just fun for a change of pace, and then back to the ICON. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Missing post
Yes, message size is limited on RCSE so attachments make things too large. Rick Van Clief wrote: This morning in response to the Looking for a 2-M thread I sent the same note with attachment to Lincoln privately and to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lincoln got his but the one to soaring@airage.com never showed up. Could my attachment be the problem? Thanks. RVC RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Tim Gastinger, your mail bounces
Tim, I tried replying to your message and it bounces. Anyway, the altitude logger with built-in LCD on it is from www.hexpertsystems.com. It's called the zlog. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Got the New Fusion Hitec 9 Channel Synth IPD RX Yesterday!
Why turn off the IPD filter. Just pull full up in the elevator and walk away until the elevator returns to neutral if you have hold set. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its different and from the MPX leg or Hitec's engineering. IF you have had one of the MPX Synth RX's you already know how to program it. One neat feature is that you can turn off the IPD filter, for doing ground range tests. The IPD acts sort of like PCM in that when the signal is lost, it either goes into 'hold' or to a failsafe preset you have assigned (some guys like full up elevator, so a signal loss at altitude makes the plane loop in place, other like a version of full flap with a touch of extra elevator so that the plane stays really slow, and flares with any added airspeed). The Fusion lets you program any fail safe setting with out having a special TX...any TX works, just hold the stick setting and touch the 'set' button per instructions. One thing I found interesting was that you can use the IPD filter or not, without its just a standard FM crystal-less RX, with it, the micro processor goes to work specifically identifying 'your' TX...not just the frequency. It verifies that the same TX is being used as when it was programmed by checking to see a couple of factors like number of channels that was being transmitted are still there, and the 'fingerprint' of the signal..sort of. One other thing that I found interesting...was that the 'frying eggs' noise that synth RX's tend to cause digital servos to make, went away. Won't have a chance to try it on the field till tomorrow for range tests in both standard and IPD mode. So far IPD and DSP tricked out RXs have not been a good thing for us sailplaners, so fingers crossed on this one. Its very compact and price right too for 9 channels. Right now in order to change Freqs or access programming, you have to be able to put a poker into the Set hole in the top of the RX caseoften our installs don't allow easy access to the case of the RX, so I have already figured out an easy install on a remote button for the set function :-) Gordy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Observations from the 2006 JR Aerotow
Castle Sailplane ice bucket. http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/7/7/0/1/8/852494.attach?ZQRjKmNkAv0dpTp2BQHlAQx5B7ygLJqyWGWTnaOyMj== Saturday afternoon had some really excellent lift. There was one half hour period over the field where there was very strong lift over a very large area. When you do two rolls with a 5M sailplane and you don't loose altitude, the lift is big. Skip Miller also took advantage of some of the excellent lift on Saturday afternoon, clocking in 73 miles on the one flight. The XC course was about a mile away from the launch area. I could see the models on course, and there were times where they made about a half dozen circles and doubled thier altitude before continuing on course. Jim Deck wrote: Well, I paid a brief visit to the third JR Aerotow today and here are some observations: - I know the connotation, Fun Fly, is currently in bad repute but I've been to all three of JR's Aerotow events and must say that the fun while flying seems to maximized at this event. Smiles all over the place. - For those concerned, Butch (that's RCButch) is doing quite well in spite of his advanced years. - Bernie Coleman complained that the combined overcast created by Jim Porter's 6 meter Orlik and Doug Barry's 6 meter Minimoa was ruining the lift for everyone else. Here's two sailplanes that really look great in the sky. Seeing them together was a real piece of eye candy. - Nice to see Jim Frickey with a 6 meter Ventus. He notched an hour flight on Friday. - The most creative use of a large sailplane fuselage had to be the ice bucket at the Castle Creations tent. I hope someone posts a picture. - Missing the action so far were Cap'n Jack and the SOAR guys. - As I stated earlier there were lots of smiles around but the biggest smile I saw belonged to the owner of the Multiplex Easy Glider that was painted and trimmed to sort of resemble a scale sailplane if one squints a bit. With some somewhat aerobatic help from John Berlin who was handling the sticks on the early part of the tow, the Easy Glider owner really was enjoying the benefits of a high tow and good air. His grin was as big if not bigger than those of the owners of the big bucks ships. Way cool!! Nice work JR and all involved - keep up the good work - see you next year! If you've never been, there's still time to drop in to Monticello, Illinois and take a look tomorrow. Jim Deck RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Super Chutes
And you can also get some nice Chutes from Johnny Berlin (or from me). Made by a real parachute maker using the same quality materials as the crazies that jump out of airplanes. Craig Christensen wrote: Do you need a new chute for your wing or hi start custom made in many colors E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Upcoming Contests
For those who like man on man competition, head out to the LISF contest. Jeff Steifel wrote: The first unlimited contest of the ESL season is coming up June 10th and 11th at Silent Knights Soaring Society in Newark Delaware. Followed by the Polecat Challenge HLG on June 17th and 18th in Bloserville, PA. Then the Long Island Silent Flyers on June 24th and 25th , in Syosset , NY (LI) You can visit the ESL website which will have links to the clubs involved and also offers online registration. http://www.flyesl.com/calendar.asp RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] F3B (team)
That's up to you to choose how to fly and how much input your team provides. Yes, we all use input from our team members, but we're still the pilot in command of the aircraft and have the ultimate decision on what to do. Most TD pilots always have a team. Ever notice how many guys always have the same timers/callers. That's because you've worked together and know what the other guy wants and needs. Nothing is more distracting than having your timer argue with you that you should be counting down on landing approach if you happened to like actual flight times. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i have to disagree with all you f3b guys about doing it as a team. i fully understand and agree that you will probably place higher with a good team. and if your trying to get on the USA team, its essential. so you don't have to tell me all the advantages, I KNOW! but there's one thing i can't stand, is someone else telling me which way to turn, or how to fly my airplane. I'll live and die by my own decisions, thats what makes the challenge for me, and keeps me going back to the field. Dave Hauch www.git-r-built.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] F3B
Daryl Perkins wrote: Jeff writes: Speed:Speed is considered the luck factor. You don't fly MOM WRONG This is a common misconception amongst many pilots. I will say one thing... Jeff is always wrong ;-) Who else could cut base A twice in one flight. You need a little luck to WIN a speed round. If you get the 17 second air, the odds of winning that group aren't good. On the other hand, if you can get out whatever is possible of the air, the odds are you are in the 900's for a score. Post F3b scores in the 2900+ range every round and you usually end up with a pretty good finish. 3000's are nice to get... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] F3B
Harry DeBoer wrote: Now that most of the smoke has cleared, where can we find more out about F3B; 3. how do you get started? Just like anything else in the hobby. It helps to have some others around to assist you. And it helps even more to have a group that flies together. This lets you practice some of the man on man aspects, plus a little friendly competition in practice on who is launching highest, going fastest, etc never hurt anyone in improving thier model setup. And of course, RCSE doesn't hurt. Obviously there were quite a few responses. Mostly from guys who really love to fly F3b. There really is no way to explain what it is like to fly distance and speed to someone who has only flown TD. You can be descriptive and say what takes place, but until you've flown some good distance groups and done it is some good air, you just don't know... 4. what airplanes qualify? Almost anything qualifies. Lots of TD models are out there with MH-32's, RG15's, etc. They are good enough to get the feel of the tasks and to learn a lot about flying. Like models will go up without circling You can even fly a Supra in F3b. And if you go to ancient history... you can use a woody. 5. about how much dose it cost to compete? Like anything, as much as you want. The biggest cost is the practice time you need to improve your flying skills. You can buy a good model, but it doesn't replace the practice required to learn to fly it well. 6. on average how many people do you need to run a contest? Most F3b contests get run be the people flying them. If you read the rules, it looks like a billion officials. But just like our AMA TD contests, you don't need most of them. The only big overhead help item is getting guys out to base B for the distance flights. Your own helpers at base A can usually keep track of the flight times and count laps. There are a few F3b buzzer systems in various places around the US. Some of them even take care of all the timekeeping and lap counting. The only thing official needed is someone at base A and base B to push the appropriate buttons. And yes, you can even fly the F3b tasks in a contest all by yourself. I wouldn't recommend it, but it has been done. What you didn't ask is what can you learn from flying F3b. Of course, we all abuse Jeff Steifel, about his flying. But his overall flying has gotten better since he has been flying F3b. If you've never flown on monofilament and a F3b winch, you probably have a lot to learn about setting up your model for launch. I have several F3b winches. Great to launch my Bubble Dancer as well as my F3b models. Got rid of my FLS decades ago. I hope you get a chance to meet up with Dave or someone else in your area to give flying off some F3b winches a try. And you still have time to change your NATS entry from XC to F3b! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] RoadRunner issues being resolved?
Are you getting email yet? DNS issue looks like it has been solved Bruce Hobbs wrote: Still unable to receive RCSE and have now missed the latest Soaring Digest with the Genie build by my friend Chris Boultinghouse. Any news on when those of us using Time Warner (RoadRunner) can receive RCSE again? I’ve contacted RR here in Austin and basically received the sugar coated runaround! Thanks for any help you can provide. BCNU Bruce Hobbs RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Quick disconnect for winch footswitch?
I use a 4-pin MIC plug (old style CB Microphone). YOu might be able to still find some at Radio Shack. You can use two pins for each lead. They are inexpensive. But it's not quick disconnect if you screw on the retainer. I prefer the Aqualine footswitches. I get them from Newark Electronics. Best part is you can get them in orange or yellow or red. Sheldon-YNT uDesign wrote: I've got a Clipper footswitch coming from Tom at Injoy, but does anyone have any suggestions on a quick disconnect plug setup (and where to get the parts) to connect the footswitch to my winch? TIA, -Sheldon- RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Quick disconnect for winch footswitch?
http://www.linemaster.com/aquiline.shtml Newark used to carry 971-SO which were the last ones I ordered. They were still in the Catalog 123 2005-2006 catalog on page 1792. Ed Berris wrote: Mike, I was trying to find the switches you mentioned at Newark's home page but couldn't find anything. Can you give me a part number or a link to find them? Ed - Original Message - From: Michael Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: RCSE soaring@airage.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Quick disconnect for winch footswitch? I use a 4-pin MIC plug (old style CB Microphone). YOu might be able to still find some at Radio Shack. You can use two pins for each lead. They are inexpensive. But it's not quick disconnect if you screw on the retainer. I prefer the Aqualine footswitches. I get them from Newark Electronics. Best part is you can get them in orange or yellow or red. Sheldon-YNT uDesign wrote: I've got a Clipper footswitch coming from Tom at Injoy, but does anyone have any suggestions on a quick disconnect plug setup (and where to get the parts) to connect the footswitch to my winch? TIA, -Sheldon- RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: 4/10/2006 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] NO MAIL?
There are some issues with how the mail is being sent. Some anti-spam techniques are blocking soaring@airage.com messages. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: have not received mail in a week. John RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Durable Paint?
Klass Kote is almost the same as KB. Good stuff. It's what I use for paint when making molded models. Imron is ancient technology in auto paint. Why take the risk. George Voss wrote: Imron is supposed to be painted in a sealed room with more than normal exhaust fans, and a fresh air respirator. It's REALLY bad stuff as Jeff points out. Funny isn't it, all the really good stuff will kill you. Now we get watered down stuff, like Krylon and have to consider it a 'good' paint. Go with Rustoleum or Klass Kote. Me, I stocked up on KB as soon as I heard it was going off the market. I've got just enough to last me until I'm done with this hobby in my 80's or 90's. ;-) gv -Original Message- From: Jeff Steifel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 1:12 PM To: George Voss Cc: 'RCSE' Subject: Re: [RCSE] Durable Paint? Worse than a carcinogen is that Imron is additive and will destroy your liver. It never purges from your system. I have heard about guys that died after spraying IMRON too many times without a respirator.. Always spray with at least a basic volatile orgranic filter respirator or a pump. I happen to have both.. The pump style of respirator is also excellent for 2 part systems... I agree about Krylon being too soft... white nearly turns black by the end of a couple of flying sessions and can't be cleaned off. George Voss wrote: Frankly, I hate Krylon. It scratches easily and isn't very durable in my opinion. For the best paint, use Imron. The problem with it of course is that it's a carcinogen. It's VERY bad stuff. Next on the list would be the old KB if you can find some. Klass Kote is the best paint currently available. It's expensive and you'll need at least an airbrush, but a small spray gun is better. As for surface prep, I sand or scrape the joint line and wet sand the entire nose cone with 600 or 1000 grit sandpaper wet. Use 3M fine line masking tape. It's a type of plastic and it stretches around corners fairly well. If you are shooting over white and you are using a dark canopy color, you can shoot a dust coat, wait 15 minutes, shoot a flow coat and remove the tape while the paint is still wet. If not, use white primer over the canopy area and then shoot the color. Let the painted nose cone sit in a heated area for 3-4 days untouched. Sand the edges of the canopy so they blend in with the nose cone. I put 3M pinstripe tape around the paint line and then clear coat the entire nose cone. I've got some photos of a finished nose cone if you want to see one. If you want a rattle can finish, use Rustoleum. Be aware that you will need to allow the paint to dry in a heated area for at least 3 days before handling or you will get fingerprints. Other than that, use the same method as above except heat the spray can with hot tap water prior to spraying. It will keep the paint from shooting blobs out of the nozzle. Also, if maximum finish points are desired, use a new can of paint. Sometimes old, used cans will shoot blobs out, even when heated. gv -Original Message- From: Ben Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 7:33 AM To: RCSE Subject: Re: [RCSE] Durable Paint? Take a look at Phil Barnes' post on Mantis Fuselage Finishing here: http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44 Photos and such as well... Sheldon-YNT uDesign wrote: I'm just finishing my new Soprano (finally) and would like some advice on what brand paint I can use to spray on as a canopy on the nosecone...Something that is reasonably durable, that won't mark-up too easily or readily scuff off. Anyone have any tips on either the paint to be used and surface prep? T'would be appreciated... TIA, Sheldon~YNT RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: subscribing
In particluar, it is best to add a line with just end to make sure signatures don't get confused. Arne Ansper wrote: On Fri, 17 Mar 2006, D.S. wrote: Thanks for the info Phil. That doesn't work for me either. I did manage My experience with soaring-request@airage.com processor is that it needs a valid command in the first line. I have a habit to start e-mails with few empty lines, so they look better in my mailer and have hard time remembering what to do, every time I need to contact list processor. Arne RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Another Fazer question
Daryl Perkins wrote: Using the flap stick for camber was a cheater fix for the older Junior radios... and it makes it hard to provide pure rudder input while cambering at the same time. I haven't really looked at the newer JR radios, but I believe they have addressed this issue... 'Bout time ;-) Just pokin some fun at the competition... The competition still has the ability to program the radio that way, if that is what you like. I've never done it that way. It was the only way to get things variable way back when on an inexpensive radio that did not have a slider. And while there isn't any automatic way of transferring model setups between different capability JR radios, the setting values are identical for almost all the values. Good thing you haven't looked at a 9303. ;-) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Transmitter Stability
Bill Swingle wrote: Martin raises a good point. I have to confess that I've recommended folks have their transmitters checked out every few years. But, that's based on general knowledge that I can't backup for this specific application. I don't have any hard data on the behavior of solid state equipment over time. Wow, solid state, haven't heard that in a while. The TX does take a lot of abuse. Getting dropped, knocked around. Antennas get pushed and pulled all the time. (As anyone with a Vision may have experienced). The electronics are not in a sealed environment. There is dust, dirt, humidity, lots of things that can eventually find there way to the right place. Running TX with the antenna down might produce some extra heat on the RF output electronics. All the materials in the transmitter can age which affects thier performance. Plus mechanical problems like switches and pots wearing out. Of course, given the types of comments on this topic, there are lots of folks out there who just keep running things until they break. SOme people check thier batteries all the time, others never check them. It's no fun loosing an airplane to equipment failure. You just have to decide how much time you want to spend preventing equipment failures. Anyway, it's almost spring. Time to start checking out your models that may have been sitting around for a while. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
re:[RCSE] Control Linkages
2mm clevis are available in a lot of places. You can get them at Hobby Lobby, Dubro sells them and Sullivan sells them. One other thing of note, .080 carbon rods fit perfectly on the 2mm threaded pushrod ends. Hobby Lobby also has some nice metal horns that are aluminum. They are a lot lighter than the brass horns and also thicker. Only bad part is the price. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] redundancy for scale
Douglas, Brent wrote: Has anyone here ever set up a redundant battery and switch for a scale ship? Was it worth the trouble? Unless you really know the true failure rates for all the components as well as how to properly combine those failure rates, the true answer is it depends. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] getting new pilots
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see it easy hooking these newbies into our end of the segment. Sometimes these same newbies have a zagi wing and are sloping at Edgewater Park in downtown cleveland. We were flying 60 inch moldeds and some moths. Again it is easy to up sell soaring and sloping. Its a matter of not discounting their efforts but showing interest in what they are doing. its a large pool of gupies. The biggest problem with soaring is you never find us. You can't hear them and a lot of the fields are out in the middle of nowhere. The odds of someone driving by and stopping are almost nonexistant. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Wind Question - Not for Sport Fliers
It doesn't need to go up to 11 oz loading. Especially if it's only a 10mph wind. Best thing to do is start experimenting. Try adding 6-7 oz to the model. Make up ballast so you can also go up 12-14 oz. Thin airfoils don't need the huge increase in weight. At that time of day in the winter, any lift will not be strong but you will notice the difference. Most likely you were not drifting fast enough with the thermal. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: RE: Your wing loading seems to come out to 6.65 ounce per square foot. Im taking your 525 sq. in. and the 22.5oz plane flying weight . Thats very light for any wind performance.If those figures are credible, I would suggest trying to fly at a wing loading of 11oz. sq.ft. when your sure that thermals are abundant in those 10 mph wind conditions. So if my math is right, that flying weight using ballast would be 39 to 40 ounces total flying model weight . Geez, that sounds heavy, but your starting out very light! And 2 meter models dont have stellar performance to start with. Just a note here, When I get chances to assist guys flying those super light models,,, I find it more difficult to read air even in a no wind condition because the model is milling around, like cows grazing in a pasteur; and not covering much airspace, I prefer to mustang horses galloping on an open range.Specifically,Im talking about those 8 and 9 ounce wing loading types. To make matters worse if thats possible some of those models are really nose heavy too! Now a point of interest Ill state here is not all airfoils like ballast. The airfoils that come to mind are: Clark Y, Eppler 205, SD 7037.I think those are all higher camber wing airfoils. My experience with those airfoils is the more you ballast, the faster they come down.I also found that happening to some extent on the Pike Superior and that is why I dont fly one any more. Although the v-tail flew, penetrated ,, the wind better than the crosstail! So, If you are sure that there were thermals that day,,, Is the reason you werent happy with your acheived performance, the following: 1)your plane set up, with regards to balancing? 2) your plane set up with regards to coupled aileron differential and rudder throw. 3) your airfoil? 4)the wing loading too light? 5)the pilot? 6) There were no thermals? 7) Or the thermals were not strong enough to support your model? You said 5:00p.m., which is quite late in the day for good thermal organization,, Especailly at 35 degrees F. 8) It was a 2-meter? Thermals, Richard Burnoski Richard, OK, you did say you would answer questions if asked... I just went out to practice. A bit of detail on the plane first. It is an Allegro Lite 2m. If you are unfamiliar with the plane you can think of it as sort of a mini Ava. 525 sq inch wing area, the plane weighs about 22.5 ounces in the electric configuration I practice with. Right now, it is my highest performance plane. It is also very convenient to practice with as it assembles quick and is electric. OK, so in southern Indiana at 5:00 today after work it was about 35 degrees and the weather site says about 10 mph wind from the North. I could definitely find patches of lift. And at times it seemed strong. I noticed this both on the climbs and in glide. But it seemed every time I tried to wrap it I would loose altitude. Sometimes when flying into the wind the plane would speed up quite a bit and gain altitude, something I normally associate with entry into a thermal. So I attempt a wrap but that was never successful. I started to get cold and packed up but on the drive home I thought perhaps instead I should have just tried to float through those patches or perhaps S turn in it kind of like slope lift. Definitely from the ground there seemed to be times when a thermal would pass through. Any thoughts on flying in these conditions? Ryan RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Carbon Supra #48 flies - weight 61 oz !
So what is the penalty to reducing the amount of wire on the power? Any estimates on the penalty for doing things this way? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just cause it works does not imply it functions as well as it could with proper electrical connections. You think (wrongly...again) that this is theory, why not do your homework (like I have), do some actual testing (like I have), then get back to us. It never ceases to amaze me how folks can justify success without something to measure it against. If we followed your analogy, we would still have buildings that were only a few stories high. What's the difference between NEXTEL and F1? Sound technological advancement. Quoting Donald B. Barker [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Go ahead and fly your theoretically correct wiring harness. I'll fly what works. If a NASCAR racer were built using conventional theory, it would be so overweight that it would not be competitive. don -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RCSE] Carbon Supra #48 flies - weight 61 oz ! Most(?) engineering solutions retain the integrity of the systems that are modified to achieve secondary goals. Increasing the series-resistance by reducing the number of PWR/GND leads to the wing servos was taking a step backwards. This shows up during launch... ... Simon Van Leeuwen PnP Systems - The E-Harness of Choice Radius Systems Cogito Ergo Zoom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format Simon Van Leeuwen PnP Systems - The E-Harness of Choice Radius Systems Cogito Ergo Zoom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Carbon Supra #48 flies - weight 61 oz !
OK, my biggest bang for the buck is 5 cell and digitals. I can give up the dedicated power since it cost me weight in airframe weight as well as weight extending out the wing. Now if we can just get battery mfg to do 20 guage battery packs. Sounds like Don's tradeoff is a good one in overall airframe performance especially since the launch is such a small part and the only time the load gets extreme is in windy conditions. For a typical F3x airframe, in order of importance, the most effective means of ensuring position fidelity¡as it relates to the electrical system: 1) 5cell NiCD (not NiMH) PWR supply 2) Digital servos 3) Dedicated PWR/GND from RX buss to motor 4) ¡Ý24awg 7 strand lead (circular MIL area of std 7 strand is offers only slightly less R than more expensive lead material w/higher strand count) Switch elimination/20awg leads from PWR source to RX buss. 5) Switch elimination/20awg leads from PWR source to RX buss. The estimates you ask about would be different for every installation. However, if you wish to get the best performance under the above conditions, then dedicated PWR/GND will hold a commanded servo position significantly better than when it is shared with two or more servos... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Carbon Supra #48 flies - weight 61 oz !
Assuming that the servo power is just at the margin where blowback will be significant. If it's not, then the extra wire is just extra weight. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't assume windy conditions...we are talking regular early AM no-wind launches where blow-back was significant enough to reduce time-in-the-air. It's interesting after a number of monotonous launches utilizing an ALTI to see graphed sink rates start to line up... It could be debated (no one ides that here -right) that more mass versus higher launches on a no wind/no convective day, but I personally would take the higher launch any day of the week given the L/D efficiencies of currently available airframes. I challenge anyone to prove to me that an extra 20-30g of wiring harness is going to bring down two otherwise identical (and I DO mean identical - if it were possible) airframes under the same flight conditions. Launch height is...launch height... Quoting Michael Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OK, my biggest bang for the buck is 5 cell and digitals. I can give up the dedicated power since it cost me weight in airframe weight as well as weight extending out the wing. Now if we can just get battery mfg to do 20 guage battery packs. Sounds like Don's tradeoff is a good one in overall airframe performance especially since the launch is such a small part and the only time the load gets extreme is in windy conditions. For a typical F3x airframe, in order of importance, the most effective means of ensuring position fidelity¡as it relates to the electrical system: 1) 5cell NiCD (not NiMH) PWR supply 2) Digital servos 3) Dedicated PWR/GND from RX buss to motor 4) ¡Ý24awg 7 strand lead (circular MIL area of std 7 strand is offers only slightly less R than more expensive lead material w/higher strand count) Switch elimination/20awg leads from PWR source to RX buss. 5) Switch elimination/20awg leads from PWR source to RX buss. The estimates you ask about would be different for every installation. However, if you wish to get the best performance under the above conditions, then dedicated PWR/GND will hold a commanded servo position significantly better than when it is shared with two or more servos... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] stopwatch question.
I have a Lorus (can't get em any more) and a Seiko, but both are about the same. Don't get a cheap Cronus that looks almost the same unless Gordy is your next door neighbor and is going to repair the pushbottons for you. The Seiko will last you for years. The only bad part is the price. Usually in the $100 range. Battery life is a few years, but they are easy to replace. Counts up / counts down / allows presets to almost any time. John D. Frugé wrote: I want to ask what type of stop watch you all use for TD contests. My club MRCC are looking to upgrade from a standard simple start / stop watch to something that will do a countdown for the timer so he or she dos not have to think about anyting just call out the time on the watch. Also of course it will need to show the total time for the landing judge. The easyer the better. It was not until the Add em up @ the SWC over the weekend that we found that we have been doing things the hard way for quite some time. Guess it comes down to learning something new everyday :) Thanks, John Fruge RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Subscribe - Unsubscribe
Welcome to aoh-ll One thing that is important is to put in two lines in the message subscribe soaring digest end The send line with end is important. It prevents any extra text in the message like signatures from being interpreted as commands. Second issue is to get mail programs to not send MIME or HTML messages. All the extra junk confuses things. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lex: I'm having a terrible time trying to access the site ... I would like to change my options to a Digest format rather than individual e-mails ... Every time I go to the site, I get an automated message telling me to put my request in the BODY rather than the HEADER or the reverse ... I am unable to get in using any/all/other/some methods ... Suggestions ?? ... Thanks, Pepper Kay AMA # 3937 L.S.F. # 3335 Level IV RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re:charging Li-po batteries
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never have figured out why the Alpha 4 lovers are so darned loyal, but that's OK. Battery chargers aren't anything but a fancy power supply, but some are indeed shiny and more user friendly than others. 1) It's not a big clunky thing. Ok, the packaging will only win awards for being antique... So it doesn't take a lot of space in the box. 2) It charges 4 batteries at once and more than one can be a transmitter. 3) It will cycle batteries when we want. No extra widgets needed. Lots of folks make nice, pretty chargers, but they rarely give you more than 2 chargers in the box and they don't have as convienient a set of interchangable charge plugs or don't have an AC adapter. And they work. I've been using them for a long time. I have purchased 3 of them, but I sold my first one several years ago. And they hold value pretty well. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Lachowski Pod For Sale
That is the smaller pod, the size that Mark Drela and Tom Kiesling have on thier models. It has a shorter nose moment than the one that most guys have purchased and what Phil is using. Marta Zavala wrote: Hi. Ive got a brand new Lachowski pod for sale. It is a Supra style pod and would be good for some of you Supra builders. Excellent quality, Im only selling it because it wont work for the project Im doing (not a supra)as I need a longer nose moment. 120.00 includes ground shipping in USA. Walter RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Lachowski Pod For Sale
Yes, Terry's fuselage has a very long nose moment. That would be the longest of the bunch. It will help if you have a heavy tail or need a really long tail moment. The longer Supra pod I make is plenty long enough to balance a model with a reasonable tail. With a light tail, you have to make sure you don't put in too heavy of a battery pack. The shorter pod usually requires a little nose weight. It is also smaller, only 2 diameter. It also penetrates soft ground really well. So if you are in the part of the country that gives 0 landing points if the tail isn't on the ground, it's a bad choice. I like the shorter pod better for landings. Long noses tend to have more spring in them and bounce more. Unless you put on a shock absorbing nosecone. Terry's fuselage is well suited for that setup since the nose just slides over the pod. Marta Zavala wrote: Even the larger pod Phil is using wont be long enough. I see that the Mantis fuse Terry makes has a pretty long nose moment so I will probably go with that pod. Walter - Original Message - From: Michael Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Marta Zavala [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Lachowski Pod For Sale That is the smaller pod, the size that Mark Drela and Tom Kiesling have on thier models. It has a shorter nose moment than the one that most guys have purchased and what Phil is using. Marta Zavala wrote: Hi. Ive got a brand new Lachowski pod for sale. It is a Supra style pod and would be good for some of you Supra builders. Excellent quality, Im only selling it because it wont work for the project Im doing (not a supra)as I need a longer nose moment. 120.00 includes ground shipping in USA. Walter RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Out of Touch
Ray Hayes wrote: No one builds woody sailplanes anymore ? Don't believe it. The unfortunate part is there are very few woody sailplane designs to build. There is some old nostalgia stuff, that's about it. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Out of Touch
I don't think so. The problem with most woodies is they are 25 year old designs. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It can also be said that flying a woodie well is an art, requiring patience to commanded inputs. Agile they are not when compared to a moldie. Quoting Michael Lachowski [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ray Hayes wrote: No one builds woody sailplanes anymore ? Don't believe it. The unfortunate part is there are very few woody sailplane designs to build. There is some old nostalgia stuff, that's about it. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format Simon Van Leeuwen PnP Systems - The E-Harness of Choice Radius Systems Cogito Ergo Zoom . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supras?
Mark, are you sure someone on the big island doesn't have a Supra? http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Weather/story?id=1536245 Didn't they have a blizzard on the 24th? Warning, Supra's triggers global warming. I think the Supra's might come equipped with northeast weather. Only Mark and Tom know for sure. Very complete design accounting for even the weather. ;-) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Winch chutes
I have no complaint if you buy them from Johnny. Remember to get some good JR servos, etc at the same time ;-) James V. Bacus wrote: Which I just found out from Mike... I wasn't aware of that. ;-) At 01:29 PM 1/30/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who gets them from Mike Lachowski. Good Lift! Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Wood Crafters / Builders etc.
Designing the aero part doesn't matter, wood or composite. Desigining the structures is similar, but the wood structure is more effort. Same with building. Many of them end up with glass fuselages anyway so it's a toss up. Both end up with carbon spars. That's a no brainer if you want to winch launch anything. If you were just doing electrics, you can still build a wood wing if you want to carry the extra weight. But building a really strong wood wing takes a lot of material. They all end up composites anyway. They all use epoxy to some extent. Wood is just some cellulose composite structure anyway. What's disappointing is the lack of effort on the composite side. It's an american thing. Everyone wants to do everything themselves but doing a full molded model works out better if you have different people doing different parts. S Meyer wrote: At 09:55 AM 1/27/2006, Brent wrote: I have to admit that I do like the spirit of events like Woodcrafters, if only in that it keeps the building segment of our hobby invigorated. Brent, I'm sure you meant that it keeps the WOOD building techniques active. There is plenty of designing and building going on, just that the majority of it is in the COMPOSITE category, which requires a larger degree of skill and technique. Steve Meyer SOAR, LSF IV RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] New Spread Spectrum Radios
Lee Estingoy wrote: JR / Spektrum put on a few discussions with one of the Spektrum's Carbon fiber construction will definitely maybe possibly also have an affect on this issue of reception. So, if you fly DLGs in the rain and feel that the risk of being shot down by your good buddies at the field is larger than the risk of the carbon in your plane masking the signal, you may find the range of the Spektrum to be a problem. Otherwise, it should work fine on the manufacturer's suggested applications. Lots of the foamies out there that you would consider park flyers have carbon all over them to keep the cheezy foam from bending, almost Fortunately, China has really cheap labor so now you can get a woodie for under $100. But even that has carbon fiber landing gear and the battery packs are almost as long as the antenna. I don't have any extra RX for mine so I haven't taken it out to the slope yet. And the 6102 retrofit looks really tempting since the 6102 has a lot nicer program than the stock DX6... But what I really want is a 10X spektrum Yes, I really do have stuff that isn't a sailplane. There is not much thermal activity just before sunset in the middle of the winter so the electric powered thermal in the nose will have to do for flying in the back yard. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] RCSE
This week is definitely maybe possibly woody gordy GPS week Please get off the computer and go build or fly. If you have a moldy, go cycle your battery and check for play in your linkages RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Small [R/C] plane crash...
Is the little picture in the lower left for the Sunshine Girl the R/C soaring related item in this post? Simon Van Leeuwen wrote: Unfortunately folks in our captital are a little slow this time of the year ;^) Marc Gellart wrote: Under the title of, Stupid People Trick please read below. http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/World/2006/01/16/1396184-sun.html Marc RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Jr R700 rx in contest environment?
I flew an R700 in a 2M Organic for several Nationals. I did not have any problem. And I know that normally means 15-18 transmitters all on at the same time. When someone has a problem with an FM RX and a Transmitter with poor range, sometimes it is tuning. I know some guys who had problems with some JR FM Rx with Multiplex transmitters. When they replaced the crystals, the problem went away. I now fly mostly JR770's in competition and all my models have carbon booms and carbon pushrods and have the antennas inside the booms. Unfortunately the request was for a non JR TX, so the R770 is out of the question unless they step up to a 9303 ;-) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Receiver perfrormance
Don't forget one other factor. Landings. Enough hard landings is enough to damage any crystal, or even pop them out of an RX. Even and ex WC can do that one. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Best sailplane airline case?
If you don't want to deal with TSA, you can spend a little extra and ship things 2-day or 3-day Fedex. Have it sent to hold at the Fedex office that is probably located at the office. Pick it up when you get there. At least you know it won't be repackaged. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Shipping to Canada - WAS: Vender Disappointment
Yes, the german post office will ship to other countries. JMiller wrote: Anker, I feel your pain and auger. Bye the way, in my previous post, I don't know if DHL will ship to foreign countries, but the service is very good in the USA. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio
I'll be substituting the Buy with a Build on my entry and I will be flying a molded model. If you carefully look at the top pilots and WC in all areas of modelling, I suspect you will find that many build thier own or are working closely with a mfg to help design and build the models they fly. I think they should outlaw laser cut parts and any other power tools from the woody contests. Nothing more than razor blades and sandpaper are allowed ;-) John wrote: Ray, no store bought Are you kidding? That is heresy! It's sad but it looks like (from the lack of anyone responding to your post in the last 24hr) this is going to be the BY (Big Boy, Big Bucks, Buy Fly) contest. You have to save your support money for the craftsman/builder events. It looks like no one values, or gives any consideration, to the people that have the skill and determination to build what they fly. Not a big enough market I guess. John -Original Message- From: Ray Hayes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 4:52 PM To: John Diniz; mark browning Cc: soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio John and LSF, You guys should be Knighted. Get it on big time TV and include some aerobatics footage to spark it up. I truly hope this is a winner. I will be delighted to donate a $100.00, $75.00 and $50.00 for Cash awards to first thru third place in a woody class. Like the Southwest Classic does it with 2m, RES and Grey Cup, not separate flight groups, just separate class scoring. Providing the woody qualification rules are: Built up wood flying surfaces, with or without a glass fuse, no restrictions on spar construction, no molded d-tube, no foam, no store bought, AMA unlimited class. Ray Hayes http://www.skybench.com Home of Wood Crafters - Original Message - From: John Diniz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mark browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: soaring@airage.com Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 4:19 PM Subject: RE: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio Just need to be an LSF member. Check out http://www.silentflight.org/ on how to do that. We're capping it to the 1st 150 entrants for the 1st year. No firm date on when registration will open, but it should be this spring sometime. Once we get the website up there will be tons more info there. JD -Original Message- From: mark browning [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 2:14 PM To: John Diniz Subject: RE: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio Holt shi! how you Qualify??? see you in AZ MB From: John Diniz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] LSF US Soaring Masters sponsored by Horizon Hobby and JR Radio Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:00:59 -0600 Well folks, time to block out your vacation days for Sept 21-24, 2006. I'm pleased to announce the 1st annual LSF Soaring Masters to be held at the AMA site in Muncie, In. Please see the press release below. There will be a website up in the coming weeks that will have more info on registration and sponsorship opportunities. Cash payouts for the top five finishers and trophies through tenth as well as many product give-away opportunities for the rest of the field. Stay tuned to RCSE for more updates Thanks, John Press Release US Soaring Masters. The goal for this event is to help stimulate the competition soaring segment into higher levels of awareness within the modeling community. Soaring has endured many years with no real push to grow the segment. With a prestigious international event, that will draw out the best pilots from not only the US but the world, could only help grow the great sport of competition soaring. IMAC has seen much growth, which is no doubt partly due to prestigious events like TOC, and the Don Lowe Masters. Scale has also seen great growth with events like Top Gun and the US Scale masters. The Electric segment has seen growth with events like Neat and SEFF. Giant scale has seen growth with events like Joe Nall, Dogs and the IMAA rally's. Soaring needs it's own high profile event. An event that will be the one to win, an event that brings the soaring segment in front of the average modeler, an event that gets people excited about soaring. This event is not a fly in, it is a pure competition, with rules designed to choose the best thermal pilot in the world. This event will aspire many to get involved in soaring and aspire them to higher levels of soaring skills. Dates: September 21 - 24 2006. The competition days are Friday, Saturday and Sunday 8 - 5. Thursday is setup day. Location: AMA Headquarters, Muncie IN. This site will be ideal due to the ability for 360deg winch setup. LSF Involvement LSF has agreed to support this event is in the form of manpower and equipment. The LSF has agreed to run this event through utilization of their staff and equipment. Additional Horizon staff
Re: [RCSE] What are you doing to kill 5125/168 servos?
You had a full carbon Pike. Phil had one of the ligther ones. The problem is the layup on the really light ones just isn't suited to a zoom in the wind. Marta Zavala wrote: Ive hit my F3J full carbon Pike very hard in a breeze during launch and have yet to experience any control surface flutter. I dont go really deep into the bucket on zoom though, especially in wind. Not because of the wing flutter issue Phil experienced, but because it seems to me a short quick zoom/ping off the line always results in higher launches for me. Ride that zoom deep into the bucket and perhaps youve lost much of that stored line energy? Plus you may just flutter your wing off. Just my stupid opinion. Walter - Original Message - From: Phil Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Soaring Exchange soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [RCSE] What are you doing to kill 5125/168 servos? - Original Message - From: Tom Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] what are you guys doing to kill the flat wing servos? Ford Long shaft winch, strong winch battery, short (600ft?) 240 lb test braided winch line, no retriever, bit of a breeze. All of that in combination with an agressive (even abusive), unpracticed launch style that generally involved diving too deeply on the zoom and most importantly a model with very heavy ailerons that had a strong tendency to flutter. Just ask anybody that attended last June's LISF (Long Island Silent Flyers) contest. They will tell you what a Pike Superior SL sounds like when the ailerons are fluttering so violently that the entire wing is twisting to very odd angles. This happened repeatedly even after switching to DS368 servos. The HS5125s stripped on the first launch. The DS368s survived a few of those launches although the lighter servo arms did not survive, the servo mounts did not survive and finally, after going beefy on the servo arms and on the servo mountings, the control horns in the ailerons ripped out. I kept trying to beef up the aileron servos and mountings because I was stuck on Long island with only the Pike to fly and it was my mind-set that molded models were buy and fly and the Pike was an F3J model that should be able to handle any launch you can give it. It isn't pulling hard on launch that strips the gears. With the Pike Superior SL it is the going really fast that does the trick. The biggest problem on that particular model seamed to be that the ailerons were really heavy which is bad from a flutter perspective. David Hobby (current F3J world champion and Pike flyer) suggested using longer horns on the ailerons. I never tried that since I sold the model first. Phil RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] What are you doing to kill 5125/168 servos?
Did he ever measure the current draw on his model. If you have binding surfaces, you are going to be pumping a lot of current through the servos constantly. A 6-servo model at idle should be under 100 ma total. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Last night Cal Posthuma and I were discussing the situation with the smaller digital servos. We've never had problems with them however, one of our fellow flyers did. He was using a larger battey pack, I think it was a 6 volt, to get more zip out of the contol surfaces and burned out some servos. We have been using the standard 4.8 volt with no problems. Dennis Hoyle WMSS Treasurer / Sec / Web Geek www.rcsoaring.org RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra
Correction. I DO NOT have a Supra. My models are a little smaller and have a different airfoil for F3b. I just do a light layup for F3j/TD around 60 oz. Doesn't quite have the hang time of the AG4x series, but it will go fast. You can blame me for the fuselage pod on Mark Drela's, Tom Kiesling, and Phil Barnes models. Mark and Tom used fuselages pulled from the first mold made from my F3b fuselage plug which is set up for a different airfoil and a flat center panel. Phil used a different fuselage that I did with a little longer nose and the top of the pylon done for the AG40 and a little dihedral in the center. I've used this longer fuselage on my TD layup of my F3b model to cut out a little nose weight since I had a molded tail which I haven't managed to build as light as a bagged tail yet. I also used a really light layup of the F3b fuse with a canopy setup for my Bubble Dancer. Some day I may have a Supra if a mold ever appears with the longer center panel of the design vs the shorter center on Kennedy Supra. And it would probably have the smaller pod on it. Phil's Supra130 also ends up changed a little. Production changes designs to suit constraits of the materials or shipping. Phil does have the longest tail boom of any Supra. Ben Wilson wrote: There is one and only one official Supra plan, and those plans and info can be found here: http://charlesriverrc.org/articles/supra/supra.htm And you can get even more info here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Allegro-Lite/ - the messageboard http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Allegro-Lite/files/Supra/ -the files section And there are a number of Supra RCGroups threads: CNC Supra Build http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=364296highlight=supra another supra build - the slow way http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437733 Drela Supra http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320761highlight=supra Here is my unofficial take on what is a Supra, gleaned from my hours of research: There were a handful of people building there own Supra before Kennedy got his into production, and there are many ways to skin a Drela sailplane to mix metaphors... The Supras that were at the NATS this year (Kiesling, Lachowski and Barnes) were most-likely modified slightly from the Drela design for any number of reasons. Mark likes tiny fuselages and some of his construction techniques are a bit too time consuming for mere mortals. The basic parameters of the plane stay the same, the construction techniques often differ due to time/material/builder peculariaties. AFAIK, the wing airfoils stay the same - AG40-AG41-AG42, and most of the Supras out there are bagged wings. Mark's original Supra was 48oz and Kiesling said he has three: two 58oz models and one 64oz model, all of them bagged wings. As far as wingspans and such go, there might be some confusing the Aegea 130 wing with the Supra wing. The Supra wing is the evolution of the Aegea 130 wing (which Phil makes for the Mantis). Mark explains the differences between those two wings on this page: http://charlesriverrc.org/articles/supra/supra.htm I've never heard any discussion on changing length of the tailboom, but the fuselages are often resized as Mark's fuses are tidy affairs with little wiggle room. Also, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a Supra that doesn't use that sweet little V-mount horizontal stab. I have read quite a bit about spar and wing construction alternatives, though that could easily take days to sift through. And finally... There are a few folks producing individual pieces and parts for the Supra... Les Horvath of CompuFoamCore.com had a fuse/wing/tail core set for sale and Bud Elder makes those v-mounts (in varying sizes!). From time to time you'll see folks offering up Supra fuselages, but they come and go. The bottom line is that if you really want to *know* about the Supra, go and read through the links I've posted, specifically the Yahoo group. End of last fall, I put together an Aegea Mantis w/ a Luckenbach fuselage and Phil's Aegea 130 wing. It's like a poor-boy Supra. A lot of the same ideas, but different, and cheaper (and heavier). One day I might get my homebrew Supra together. James V. Bacus wrote: I have read about the Kennedy molded Supra on the web page, but isn't that a Drela Design as well? It seems when people talk about a Supra (glider) it could mean a lot of different things. Different fuses and lengths, different airfoils, different wingspans, different wing construction (bagged or molded), etc... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Silicone Mold Making
Why don't you just machine the slugs from tungsten. YOu can get stuff that is machinable from places like cmwinc.com. Michael Conte wrote: Hello to all: I'm thinking of making form fitting ballast slugs for my Encore DLG and was wondering if mold making silicone is something that's readily available at my local home improvement/hardware/hobby shop or if this is typically a special order item. BTW, the ballast slugs will be made out of Tungsten powder/resin. As always, thank you for your help. Mike Las Vegas, NV RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Beginner's Radio
I use a JR6102 for slope and park flyers. Nice package and 10 model memories and digital trims with a decent amount of programmability. It's not going to do your 6-servo sailplane, but for anything less, it works just fine. I have it in some models with flapperons, flying wings, and electrics. Only other limitation is it's not a module setup like the higher end JR stuff. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] RCSE
Combination of things. Change in ISP and some bad messages hanging the mail server. Things should be clearing through. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Replacement for 77M adhesive
Isn't the pushecat EPP foam? I don't think you have to worry about EPP. Acetone doesn't attack EPP as bad as polystyrene foam. Besides,it will probably evporate before you have any problems. Kent Miller wrote: I am building a Push E Cat and the plans call for 77m adhesive for the covering adhesive. I don't have any of the pre acetone 77m anymore. What is a good replacement for it? Thanks, Kent Miller SBSS RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Soaring....well I subscribed to this list now what happens?
If you have a project with lots of pictures and updates, you might want to set up a blog somewhere and tell us where to find it, or link off your site. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: can i take a pic from My Pictures, make a link or whatever it's called, then add this to a post here ? Dave Hauch www.git-r-built.com http://www.git-r-built.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 5:06 PM Subject: Soaringwell I subscribed to this list now what happens? You can't have photos on the RCSE, but you can show a 'link' if you have a webpage with photos. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] For Sale Hitec Digital Servo Programmer...AND it....
If you just want servo cycling, centering, and exercising the servos, the JR Matchmaker is a little less expensive at $29.95. Also nice if you are matching two servos on a control surface. Not that common on most sailplanes, but a possibility on a scale ship or aerotow tug. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have one Hitec HFP-10 digital servo programmer and servo tester. It is like new the only thing on it is dust from not getting enough use. It programs Hitec servo direction, dead band width, speed, fail safe position and end point plus several other test and is capable of reseting Hitec digital servos to factory default. Photos available $95 shipped to your location. Walt ...And it lets you do some good things with any other servo, digital or other wize. For instance, you can use it to exercise servos or surface hinges...by simply clicking on the cycle mode...any servo brand. You can use it to center any servo for installs, instead of having to radio up to get linkage lengths and surface centers. If you rig in a small amp meter you can check each servo's load while in the plane. The Hitec is self powered, has a rechargeable battery inside and any wall bug will charge it. So if you've been looking for something to control your servo's outside the radio during set up, the Hitec works. Gordy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: New Ky DS Record Set Today in Frankfort!
If you ask the MA editor, you will note that soaring is just like CL. So there should be more CL covreage in MA... ;-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Brent: Here's a great resource on DS: http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/flying/markdrela_ds.htm Hang on tight! Once you've gotten in the groove, front side lift just won't do it anymore. Be forewarned! I know, It's just flying in circles. But the most intense circles you'll ever fly -- particularly with glass! -- Rudy Siegel Civis Aerius Sum Soaring Soaring@airage.com wrote: RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Some thoughts on AMA-it's about LAND
Wow, you have slope and thermal sites in less than an hours drive. That's pretty good. A better description for NJ is it takes an hour to get anywhere for anything. I will admit I'm lucky in that I do have a field 10 minutes away and I can fly the small stuff out of my back yard. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much flying will you be able to get in when you will have to drive an hour each way to the field or slope? It's going to happen, just a question of time. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
re: [RCSE] Nats Issue and AMA ED
I make my minority status known when I do my AMA renewals. I don't check any other interst than soaring. Plus FAI events. It avoids any confusion when creating lies from the numbers in the surveys. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Nats Issue and AMA ED
I guess we should all write the editor telling him how disappointed we are in not seeing full NATS coverage. James V. Bacus wrote: That's not what I heard from the editor of the mag. I heard that the AMA received numerous letters from members that were tired of seeing an entire issue about competition. There is a similar issue with members not liking the AMA facilities and grounds being used for an entire month for competition which they supposedly received letters about. So a number of days was cut from Nats this year. So in one year we almost lost a day at Nats, but shifted to starting on Friday to keep all the dates and we have lost the magazine coverage for the Nats. It seems a growing number of modelers are not interested in contest flying. I think that's unfortunate because that's my favorite part about soaring. And the Nats issue was my favorite issue for the entire year, now it's just a Christmas catalog of advertisements. At 08:32 PM 10/30/2005, ROBERT M GELLART wrote: Just for the record, from what I know, it was the Model Aviation staff that generated this idea, not AMA staff. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Model Aviation 2005 NATS Issue
It's currently the second item in news on the AMA home page. Right after the Spread Spectrun stuff. Which is a lot more exciting than the Executive director leaving. Looking forward to putting a spread spectrum radio in some slope trash to avoid any frequency conflicts. Mark Miller wrote: It was in the front of the same issue as the NATS non-coverage. All they said was that the Executive Commitee voted not to renew his contract. They are looking for a new candidate. Mark --- Jack Iafret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Goodness, when did this happen? He sure did not last long. On 10/29/05, Mark Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe one of the reasons they sacked the new Executive Director? Mark __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jack Iafret Home and Hobbies __ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] 9303 or 10X Programming assistance
That will work OK. You will probabably have to use a Y connector or matchbox to run both the spoiler servos and use a mixing curve to do the throttle stick to spoiler mixing. I have not tried anything like that on a 9303. You only have 9 channels there and obviously you have 10 servos in the 8 wing servo model. But with the modified channel output pattern for the sailplane configs, you should not have much of a problem using all 9 channels. If your flaps will always be used just as flaps (never ailerons) then treat the outter ailerons as the ailerons, the inner ailerons as the flaps for your normal channels. Then use mixers to create the flap and spoiler mixes. Now all you need are retracts and tow release... Lydon, Matthew (NBC Universal) wrote: Mike Lachowski wrote up a nice guide to doing a 6 servo wing - http://www.eclipse.net/~mikel/10X/Escape10X.html He's also got a link to the setup, so you can download it into your radio You might be able to modify it for your 8 servo. Matt From: George Voss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:52 PM To: RCSE Subject: [RCSE] 9303 or 10X Programming assistance I've got 2 sailplanes that I need programming assistance. They have 6 and 8 servo wings. I'd like to have them programmed like a normal 4 servo wing in a competition sailplane, with the addition the following: The 8 servo wing has spoilers, inner and outer ailerons and flaps. I'd like to be able to allow the outer ailerons to always work as ailerons. The inner ailerons will work as ailerons part of the time, then I want to be able to flip a switch or go into a flight mode and have the ailerons cambered with the flaps. I want the ailerons to come down ½ way with the flap stick, then start going up. At the ½ way point of the flap stick movement, the spoilers come up. The 6 servo wing doesn't have spoilers, and I want to be able to do the same thing as above. Does anyone have a 9303 or 10X programmed to do this type of mixing? It would save me a tremendous amount of programming time and headache. TIA gv RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] What happened to bondo?
Try West Systems fillers. The 405 and 407 would be suitable for building up fillets that require some strength. If you just need to do some filling and want the easiest sanding, use the 410 microlight filler. It is easier to sand than microballons. Brent wrote: I'm doing a wing fairing on a scale ship, and I just did a small batch of short fiber Bondo - wow, does that stink. I hadn't used this since my old Torino (back in the 70-80s), and it used to be pink and fairly tame; at least that's what I remember. Now it's green, and my shop (the whole house) reeks. I think I passed out at some point, and I only mixed an apple sauce package worth. I think I'm committed now, but is there a better way? Epoxy and carbosil? I got the bondo tip from a pretty good scale ship guy, but he must have a better ventilation system than I do. I think I'm off to watch The Wall and listen to the Wizard of Oz... B. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] How to vacuum bag fiberglass cloth over balsa
Check out http://home.paonline.com/hayman/video.htm for a good video. The cloth is placed on the mylar and wet out on the mylar, not on the balsa. It's a lot easier to wet out that way with an appropriate amount of epoxy. If you wet things out on the balsa, the wood will soak up a lot of excess epoxy and you will end up with a very heavy tail. The only thing you will wet out on the balsa will be the leading edge if you want the glass wrapped around the LE. That step is necessary for foam cores, but you really won't need to do that on a solid balsa stab. glide wrote: I'm planning to vacuum bag some fiberglass cloth over some balsa v tails I'm preparing for the Shrike I recently acquired. I want to do the v tail with fiberglass because I feel it would make it a bit more durable. I have the basic vacuum bagging system from ACP with the vacuum bag, Mylar, mold release, etc. How do I go about it in prepping the balsa tail and fiberglass cloth? Do I go ahead and trim the cloth to as close to the size of the v tail pieces, wet the cloth out, lay it on the balsa, then stick it in the bag with the Mylar sheet over the balsa/cloth pieces? I would really appreciate some experienced insight on the process. Aloha to all on RCSE. Al Battad - WH6VE AMA #506981 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] T/D flying for $$$$$
Don't count out Barnes, especially if you throw in some DLG, and Oleg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/15/2005 4:13:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The EAST is LEAST (likely to lose!) I'll see your crummy $20 and bump to $50! Kiesling, Lachowski, Glaab, pack your bags! (Gordy will be snuck in to make smoke other distractions) Good Lift! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Long music wire????
I can't think of any reason to be using 1/16 music wire for pushrods. Either use 1/16 carbon fiber rods or use hypo tubing. If you want 6 ft long straight wire, Small Parts does sell stainless steel white in those lengths that is already straight. With a well supported, straight pushrod, you probably only need .030 wire or possibly less. Any of these alternatives will be much lighter than 1/16 music wire. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Servo wars
Get out your JR MatchMaker, mount your two favorite servos and connect them together. Power it up and see who wins. If you don't know what a JR MatchMaker is, it's a servo tester. Two output channels can be controlled directly from a pot on the device. The other two output channels sweep from end to end with the sweep speed controlled by the pot. Great little widget for checking your gears if you think there might be a problem in there. Same size as a small RX. I also measure the current going through it with a meter if I suspect a servo is not running correctly or drawing too much current. You'll have to come up with something else if you want to do servo drag races... RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Recent performances... Lazurite can be found in...
Why does a 130 model have to be heavier than 68 oz. My 3.3M molded model is 58 oz. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While not shown on HobbyClub's website, it originates in the remote mountain valley called Kokcha, Afghanistan Apparently it only comes in blue, but can be had with some yellow flecs in it. _http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/silicate/lazurite/lazurite.htm_ (http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/silicate/lazurite/lazurite.htm) Seems that a span of 130 as is popular for TD and F3J today would be heavier than 68ozs though :-) If Mike Lee did that well with it, it must be a phenomenal sailplane, cuz we all know he's not much of a thumb :-) Gordy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] ESL Forums
They are back online. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Early Soaring Pics
What vintage is this one? http://dozone.com.hosting.domaindirect.com/images/allseeingeye1.jpg d. o. darnell wrote: Hi, All; I thought you'all might enjoy some pictures I found of early soaring. These pictures are really old and I can't remember everyone's names but I do recognize a few things and folks. Check it out. http://dozone.com/early_soaring.htm RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] GL for One Design
When it comes to high-tech on builds, it's a lot easier for the average builder to buy a few cf strips than it is for them to find and select the proper wood in a wing. And no one likes to build fuselages. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As long as I can make mine out of EPP. Actually I would like to see a 3 function catagory rather than RES. It would be fun to have an open class with limitations, I.E. something like: 100 no carbon. no glass. no aramids. 3 functions. Maybe no ARFs. This would leave room for creativity in design, but it wouldn't allow any high tech materials. I would design EPP kits for this. Mark Mech www.aerofoam.com Well, since one design events are usually intended to be a low cost design: how about just scheduling a Gentle Lady contest? Besides, the needed radio gear would be real cheap. They're low cost and they fly nicely. Who doesn't like flying a GL? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format . RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Lamenting the lack of available sailplane builder's kits
I don't think this is unique to sailplanes. In all areas, most of what you get is ARF. Overseas labor is so cheap, you get complete models for the price of making a kit in the US. And the vast majority of pilots don't have any time to build anyway. You can find a few kits at polecataero. And skybench has plenty if you like nostalgia. But designing a high performance full house model in wood went away 10 years ago. You can find fuselages out there and there are some good bagging videos if you want to scratch build. Check out the Charles River RC site and pick any one of Mark Drela's designs and build it. You won't be disappointed. Just don't try to improve on the structure or materials selection. Maybe a little building will come back with the current exchange rate for the Euro. That has bumped up the price of the imports a lot. Gone are the days of a $600 fully molded model. Scott and Jennifer Martin wrote: Can someone point me in the direction of some good sailplane kits? I don't mean floaters. I mean good, high-quality wood kits, with maybe a fiberglass fuse, for high-performance full-house sailplanes. I ask this question because I can't find any such kits anywhere. Does anyone make them? I prefer to build my own aircraft; no ARFs or ARCs for me. I'm currently building an Alcyone 3M and a two-meter Prophet, both of which are from kits that I acquired some years ago. The Alcyone 3M was in production when I got the kit as a gift, and my guess is the particular Prophet kit I have was kitted in the 1980s; I acquired it from someone who sold me a pair of Prophet kits: one a 2m, and the other a 2.5m. Neither the Alcyone series nor the Prophet series of kits is in production today, and that disappoints me. When I started building RC sailplanes in the mid-1980s, builders' kits abounded. Nowadays, if it's in a box, it's probably an ARF or ARC. I have plenty of sets of full-sized plans to keep me busy scratch-building for a few years, given my slow rate of production. But it sure would be nice to see something like Harley's Genie in a builder's kit (I plan to build one from scratch, given that I already have a set of cores for it). Do any of you remember the Sailfish or Heat Seeker or Jouster or Runaway? You can get the plans for these sailplanes, but you can't get them in kits. What has happened to the kit market? Are there no profits in the kit business. Or am I just looking in the wrong places? Scott Martin Chandler, Ariz. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] F3b WC
Final results are available at www.f3b.fi RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: F3b World Champs
Mike Smith's Round 4 score looks better now that speed is complete. Duration was flown before speed and when I looked earlier only duration was posted. Looks like the problem was minor enough to have it fixed for a respectable speed run in the round. Turnout looks a bit low for this WC. Several countries that were there in Germany are not at this one. Things are moving pretty well with 4 rounds complete. I haven't found any good blogs or annotated pictures. Same group seems to consistently have the best speed times. Don't know if that's the Lucas motors vs Bosch or something else. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] WC Links
http://www.f3b-team-germany.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?World_Championship_2005 http://www.teamswiss-f3b.ch/ Translating the germany site, looks like they have had a bit of wet weather there. Looking at bulletin 2, they are supposed to be at the Sauna this evening. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] F3b WC
Results are up for 2 complete rounds. Looks like things are moving pretty smoothly. They also have a picture gallery for Sunday and Monday. Looks like speed conditions weren't that good in the second round. http://www.f3b.fi RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] NATS NOS
I think it was a sweep by Whaleaires.. Go to the LSF site and Nats 2005. It's not obvious, but if you click on the second column, Event, you go to a page that has a link to the results. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know who were the top finishers in NOS and what models they flew? Tom Gressman/RMSA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] National Fun Fly
Isn't Woodcrafters kind of a fun fly? It already exists. TJB wrote: In the majority of flying clubs in our area, only a very few are seriously interested in competition. Out of 20 club members, last year, I was the only one who showed up for our ESL contest on the second day. Lancaster has the same problem. I would venture to say, if there was a National Fun Fly for a week, there might be a good turn out. It doesn't even have to be on the same schedule as the NATS. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send subscribe and unsubscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
