Non-standard Time Zones [was Re: Vertical declining sundial help]
Hi, If I can add my tuppence worth. Several sundial/astronomy programs have pre-defined time zone lists which assume that all the world sets its standard time by a 15 degree longitude difference. But: about 1/6th of the world doesn't (an in-my-head calculation based on India's billion population, plus odd jurisdictions like that in which I live: South Australia, as well as the Northern Territory). While most sundial programs allow one to input non-standard time zones (e.g. Sonne, Shadows, Dialist, ZW2k...) some really useful ones don't (e.g. Sundial Align, Orologi Solari). Astronomy programs are less likely to give options for setting non-standard locations (e.g Electric Astrolabe, and Planets 202). So: my plea to programmers is to either allow the user to enter the standard time zone themselves, or else do as Dialist does and allow the user to enter a deviation from a standard time zone. cheers, Peter Simon [illustratingshadows wrote: Standards are essential in many lines of work. However, standards also tend to limit, and in some cases lower the bar by going to a common denominator. Standards can also become esoteric at the other extreme. And many times standards are built by the academia without regard to the man-on-the-street. The BSS spent time on standardizing the presentation of sundial formula. That standard is good, but above many lay persons. And thus people don't use it, and thus why people go their own way. Also, it is after the fact as far as the classic books go, and like it or not, classic books are what most people use. I don't see why programs should use a common standard on input terms to the nth degree as long as each program defines the terms, as for example on their input data panels. I have used many, most, if not all the programs everyone else used for sundial plate design, and I dont agree that the terms used are outside of reasonable tolerances. I think they all explain the data input, and what is meant, and when longitude is + or - for west, etc. SD and style distance are used in all programs, SH and style height similarly. Some programs accept dial longitude and then don't use it unless also told to make that adjustment, some use - for east some use +, some work on both hemispheres and some dont. In fact, look at the EOT. Astronomers use an opposite sign to sun dial people. It aint going to change. Using a program should be more than a rote action, there should be some good understanding underlying gnomonics before designing a dial. My preference for programs is (1) my own DeltaCAD macros which I re worked in the last month for much more user friendly formats, and (2) ShadowsPRO. However, all programs out there serve a purpose, and all do a good job. Mine were aimed at getting diallists beyond dialling, and into modifying the raw code, their focus is education. My code is conversational even in object oriented language systems, since conversational methods are easier to follow when looking at source code. Thus the programs I have written for DeltaCAD, LISP, FORTRAN, C, Basic, Visual BASIC, JAVA, Python, Euler, Scilab, Octave, Pascal, variations in Excel, and for the PalmPilot (docs to go as well as standalone prc), TurboCAD, and horror of horrors, even COBOL, are all aimed at education. They all work, however they are tools. Enough of my ranting. Look at all the programs and use the ones you like. There is enough choice out there so that each of us with our quirks and preferences can find what we like. Simon PS: anyone with my DeltaCAD macros older than July 2008 may wish to download the latest versions, they are integrated into a few macros covering generic dial types, comments expanded on data fields, and the notes on printing dial plates expanded for big and small dials plates. The ZIP file is bigger because it has the new ones, a larger set of notes on using them, and still has the old macros as well for those who like the smaller macros. --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Vertical declining sundial help To: "jlcarmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Sundial list Sundial list" Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:43 AM Well, maybe it would not be enough, but some agreement in the sundial community (between both software makers and dialists) on nomenclatures etc. could help in creating a "de facto" standard. I agree with John, we absolutely don't need a war between programmers, however I think that some more feedback on what a program does would be useful, I'm sure that there are several aspects that could be enhanced and that the programmer cannot see because he is the author. It's not a question of criticizing any programs, just a way to improve them. Greetings. Gian -- Initial Header --- From
Re: Time Zones
Which reminds me of an attractive puzzle I once saw in Wireless World. Suppose you have a lot of pieces that fit together to form a hollow sphere. Think for example of the patches that make up a soccer ball, only thicker perhaps. Suppose further they are all magnetised (magnetized?) with N on what is going to be the outside, S on what is going to be the inside. The fun part is that nothing fundamental is keeping you from adding pieces, side by side, to make a growing sphere. Of course they will repel each other, but that's another problem. All the while, you will have magnetic lines of force from the N on the convex side, through what will eventually be an ever decreasing hole, to S on the concave side. The interesting question is: what happens when you plug up the last hole? And why? What will the force on the last piece be, trying to keep you from plugging the hole shut; compared with the other pieces; larger or smaller? Can we affix a magnetic style triangle to it in order to manufacture a sundial? OK, this one is a bit obvious, but it keeps the message on topic ;-) Rudolf - Original Message - From: Tony Moss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: sundial mailing list Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 9:03 PM Subject: Re: Time Zones > Fernando contributed: > > > Or else we can make the sphere to be > >magnetic and attract our feet, magnetic too, with opposed > >pole ;-) > > Now that IS a novel concept: a magnetised sphere with one pole at its > centre and the other spread all over its surface. A sort of magnetic > Klein Bottle. It's an attractive idea. > > Ouch! > > The dux flensity near the middle would be interesting too. > > Tony Moss > >
Re: Time Zones
Fernando contributed: > Or else we can make the sphere to be >magnetic and attract our feet, magnetic too, with opposed >pole ;-) Now that IS a novel concept: a magnetised sphere with one pole at its centre and the other spread all over its surface. A sort of magnetic Klein Bottle. It's an attractive idea. Ouch! The dux flensity near the middle would be interesting too. Tony Moss
Re: Time Zones
Dave Bell wrote: > > Wouldn't all shadows look like noon in the tropics, and just be > "puddles" at one's feet? > > Seriously, a sperical shell doesn't work, as there is no gravity inside, > and it would be difficult to keep your feet on the ground! Hey, what's the matter with you? We are creating this so we can redefine Newton's laws. We can say that a source of light in the core of a sphere will generate a certain attraction, so on and so forth. Or else we can make the sphere to be magnetic and attract our feet, magnetic too, with opposed pole ;-) - fernando > A cylindrical > shell, with a glowing central core (presumably fusion-powered), may be > slowly spun on its axis, giving full-time zenithal sunshine. > > Moving shadow planes have been suggested as a means of providing at least > twilight conditions, without the need to extinguish the fusion core. These > could orbit near the core, in near-weightless conditions. > > There are exciting recreational possibilities, as well, for low-G mountain > climbing at the endwalls, and free flight in the space "above" the living > surface... > > Dave > > On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: > > > Dave Bell wrote: > > > > > > Even easier, Fernando: "Invent" a spherical, but hollow Earth, with the > > > "Sun" quite close, at the center! Perfectly common design for a > > > sufficiently large, and sufficiently advanced space habitat, or entire > > > civilisation, living within a Dyson Sphere... > > > > huuummm... How about the shadows extending from feet to head? > > Won't them look phantasmagoric? If not, this is a wonderful > > idea. > > > > - fernando > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: > > > > > > > Thierry van Steenberghe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Steve Lelievre wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It s > > > > > > Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in > > > > > > England I > > > > > > did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and > > > > > > Germany (+1). > > > > > > It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this > > > > > > was due > > > > > > > > > > Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the > > > > > US, from > > > > > Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company > > > > > here in > > > > > Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey, guys, how about inventing a flat world with a sun > > > > burning from far, far, far away and turning itself on and > > > > off 12 hours? If it is very, very far away every corner of > > > > the new, flat world will be equally lit. And if it turns itself > > > > on and off regularly there will be no time zones, no shift > > > > differences, no daylight saving in the Summer and none of > > > > the problems some of us have been discussing. > > > > > > > > Let's accept for a fact that all those problems are NOT created > > > > by time zones or daylight saving time. They are not even > > > > problems. > > > > They are the reality we are provided with. And if we are > > > > interested in causes, it is because the Earth is a ball, > > > > it revolves and moves, so on and so forth. :-) > > > > > > > > - fernando > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas > > > > Abertos > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br > > > > Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 > > > > 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W > > > > 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W > > > > -- > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas > > Abertos > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br > > Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 > > 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W > > 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W > > -- > > -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W --
Re: Time Zones
Dave Bell wrote: > > Even easier, Fernando: "Invent" a spherical, but hollow Earth, with the > "Sun" quite close, at the center! Perfectly common design for a > sufficiently large, and sufficiently advanced space habitat, or entire > civilisation, living within a Dyson Sphere... huuummm... How about the shadows extending from feet to head? Won't them look phantasmagoric? If not, this is a wonderful idea. - fernando > > Dave > > On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: > > > Thierry van Steenberghe wrote: > > > > > > Steve Lelievre wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It s > > > > Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in > > > > England I > > > > did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany > > > > (+1). > > > > It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was > > > > due > > > > > > Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, > > > from > > > Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company here > > > in > > > Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. > > > > > > Hey, guys, how about inventing a flat world with a sun > > burning from far, far, far away and turning itself on and > > off 12 hours? If it is very, very far away every corner of > > the new, flat world will be equally lit. And if it turns itself > > on and off regularly there will be no time zones, no shift > > differences, no daylight saving in the Summer and none of > > the problems some of us have been discussing. > > > > Let's accept for a fact that all those problems are NOT created > > by time zones or daylight saving time. They are not even > > problems. > > They are the reality we are provided with. And if we are > > interested in causes, it is because the Earth is a ball, > > it revolves and moves, so on and so forth. :-) > > > > - fernando > > > > -- > > -- > > Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas > > Abertos > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br > > Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 > > 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W > > 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W > > -- > > -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W --
Re: Time Zones
Wouldn't all shadows look like noon in the tropics, and just be "puddles" at one's feet? Seriously, a sperical shell doesn't work, as there is no gravity inside, and it would be difficult to keep your feet on the ground! A cylindrical shell, with a glowing central core (presumably fusion-powered), may be slowly spun on its axis, giving full-time zenithal sunshine. Moving shadow planes have been suggested as a means of providing at least twilight conditions, without the need to extinguish the fusion core. These could orbit near the core, in near-weightless conditions. There are exciting recreational possibilities, as well, for low-G mountain climbing at the endwalls, and free flight in the space "above" the living surface... Dave On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: > Dave Bell wrote: > > > > Even easier, Fernando: "Invent" a spherical, but hollow Earth, with the > > "Sun" quite close, at the center! Perfectly common design for a > > sufficiently large, and sufficiently advanced space habitat, or entire > > civilisation, living within a Dyson Sphere... > > huuummm... How about the shadows extending from feet to head? > Won't them look phantasmagoric? If not, this is a wonderful > idea. > > - fernando > > > > > Dave > > > > On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: > > > > > Thierry van Steenberghe wrote: > > > > > > > > Steve Lelievre wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It s > > > > > Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in > > > > > England I > > > > > did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany > > > > > (+1). > > > > > It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this > > > > > was due > > > > > > > > Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, > > > > from > > > > Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company > > > > here in > > > > Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. > > > > > > > > > Hey, guys, how about inventing a flat world with a sun > > > burning from far, far, far away and turning itself on and > > > off 12 hours? If it is very, very far away every corner of > > > the new, flat world will be equally lit. And if it turns itself > > > on and off regularly there will be no time zones, no shift > > > differences, no daylight saving in the Summer and none of > > > the problems some of us have been discussing. > > > > > > Let's accept for a fact that all those problems are NOT created > > > by time zones or daylight saving time. They are not even > > > problems. > > > They are the reality we are provided with. And if we are > > > interested in causes, it is because the Earth is a ball, > > > it revolves and moves, so on and so forth. :-) > > > > > > - fernando > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas > > > Abertos > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br > > > Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 > > > 15? 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47? 49' 58.6" W > > > 19? 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45? 17' 13.6" W > > > -- > > > > > -- > -- > Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas > Abertos > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br > Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 > 15? 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47? 49' 58.6" W > 19? 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45? 17' 13.6" W > -- >
Re: Time Zones
Even easier, Fernando: "Invent" a spherical, but hollow Earth, with the "Sun" quite close, at the center! Perfectly common design for a sufficiently large, and sufficiently advanced space habitat, or entire civilisation, living within a Dyson Sphere... Dave On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Fernando Cabral wrote: > Thierry van Steenberghe wrote: > > > > Steve Lelievre wrote: > > > > > > > > Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It s > > > Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I > > > did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany > > > (+1). > > > It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was > > > due > > > > Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, from > > Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company here in > > Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. > > > Hey, guys, how about inventing a flat world with a sun > burning from far, far, far away and turning itself on and > off 12 hours? If it is very, very far away every corner of > the new, flat world will be equally lit. And if it turns itself > on and off regularly there will be no time zones, no shift > differences, no daylight saving in the Summer and none of > the problems some of us have been discussing. > > Let's accept for a fact that all those problems are NOT created > by time zones or daylight saving time. They are not even > problems. > They are the reality we are provided with. And if we are > interested in causes, it is because the Earth is a ball, > it revolves and moves, so on and so forth. :-) > > - fernando > > -- > -- > Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas > Abertos > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br > Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 > 15? 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47? 49' 58.6" W > 19? 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45? 17' 13.6" W > -- >
Re: Time Zones
...replying to Harriet replying to A.Brown: I'm not leery of change and in fact I like to push the use of technology, I just don't like doing it in bits and pieces. I think all of the folks fooling around with the time count are missing the opportunity and narrowly focused. Seems to me, probably because I'm biased toward 'dialism', that we can get rid of time zones, area codes, zip codes, addresses, telephone numbers, etc. by just using GPS+ longitude and latitude. Looking at all of those benefits I think I could also get rid of my day planner and palm pilot. Is our list is long and representative enough so that we could start a movement? Steve I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< At 11:58 PM 3/28/2001 +0100, A.Brown wrote: Hi All I just wondered what members in the group think of the latest zoneless time concept, Internet Time where the day is broken up into beats eliminating the need for geographical based time zones. Is it seen as helping to make ours one world or as cynical "commercial" exploitation? see http://www.swatch.com/fs_index.php
Re: Time Zones
Thierry van Steenberghe wrote: > > Steve Lelievre wrote: > > > > > Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It s > > Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I > > did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany (+1). > > It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was due > > Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, from > Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company here in > Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. Hey, guys, how about inventing a flat world with a sun burning from far, far, far away and turning itself on and off 12 hours? If it is very, very far away every corner of the new, flat world will be equally lit. And if it turns itself on and off regularly there will be no time zones, no shift differences, no daylight saving in the Summer and none of the problems some of us have been discussing. Let's accept for a fact that all those problems are NOT created by time zones or daylight saving time. They are not even problems. They are the reality we are provided with. And if we are interested in causes, it is because the Earth is a ball, it revolves and moves, so on and so forth. :-) - fernando -- -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W --
Re: Time Zones
"fer j. de vries" wrote: > > Time Zone Lovers, > > In Europe also Portugal has the same time zone as the British have. > As is showed on the Web site, recommended in the mail by Thierry van > Steenberghe, this is called WET and in summer it is WEST > > For France, Germany, The Netherlands and many more countries this Web site > mention as name CET and CEST, that is GMT + 1 and GMT + 2 and not WET and > WEST as Thierry wrote. OOps! Sorry! Thanks for correcting, Fer! > > So we also have a name confusion. > > In our language ( Dutch ) we speak about MET and MEZT, that means Middel > Europese Tijd and Middel Europese Zomer Tijd. > > Fer. > > Fer J. de Vries > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.iae.nl/users/ferdv/ > Eindhoven, Netherlands > lat. 51:30 N long. 5:30 E > > - Original Message - > From: Thierry van Steenberghe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: harriet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: sundial mailing list > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:36 PM > Subject: Re: Time Zones > > > Dear Harriet, > > > > In addition to the pointers you've already received, you might also like > to > > have a look at http://www.timeanddate.com/time/abbreviations.html > > > > You are right to write "Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to > the > > 'correct' zone?" with quotes around the word 'correct'... > > Actually, most Western European Union countries are on WET/WEST, which is > 1 (or > > 2, when DST is switched on) hours in advance of GMT. This is fairly nice > when > > travelling thorough the continent! > > However, I think Greece might be on the next zone, 2 (or 3) hours in > advance. > > So it's not France who distinguishes from the rest, but ...UK who are the > sole > > to insist on 'their' GMT time (nowadays called UT). > > (I should check for Ireland, but I'm pretty sure they are on WET/WEST > too.) > > And a trick: just get an airline timetable and look for the destinations > of > > interest. > > > > As for DST, it's now a EC law or is it just a recommendation? In any case > there > > is a text about it in the legislative database of the EC, fixing the dates > of > > ON and OFF. (Check the validity dates of your airline timetable!). > > > > Thierry > > 50°50'N, 4°20'E > > -- > > __ > > > > Thierry van Steenberghe > > Bruxelles / Belgium > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ > > > > harriet wrote: > > > > > [...]
Re: Time Zones
Steve Lelievre wrote: > > Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It seems to > me that Spain and France should be the same too, but for their close ties > with the rest of the European mainland. They are both mostly within 7.5° of > the Greenwich meridian. > > Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I > did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany (+1). > It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was due > to different timezones, but also different office hours. England worked > 9-17.30 local with lunch from 12.30 - 13.30, Finland worked 7.30-16.00 local > with lunch from 11.30 to 12.30, France and Germany something else again. > Germany was extra complicated because the factory staff worked different > hours to the operations staff, so there were two sets of times to remember. > > I would happily put the whole of the EU on a single time zone, but only if > there are also common start, finish and break times! > Still, it's more easy to find somebody in UK or Finland than in the US, from Europe, that is, don't you think? I remember when I was in a company here in Brussels, how difficult it was to call equipment providers in the US. Now, fortunately, we have asynchronous communications (e-mail, to be less pedantic): it's maybe not panacea, but it solves at least the TZ, working hours and breaks problems...
Re: Time Zones
Just to complete my previous reply, Harriet: I checked that UK is not the only EU country to be on UTC. Ireland is too indeed, and as a matter of fact Portugal and Iceland (not member of the EU, yet) also use UTC. My remark about UK sole country attached to their good old GMT was thus out of place: sorry, UK! ;-) And on the other side, I confirm that Greece is at UTC+2, but so is Finland. Many of the former Eastern European countries are now candidates to join the EU, wich will bring in a slew of new UTC+2 countries. Best regards, Thierry harriet wrote: > > Dear Dialists > > Many thanks for the vast amounts of information about time zones. That > will keep me quiet for a bit! > > Harriet James
Re: Time Zones
Time Zone Lovers, In Europe also Portugal has the same time zone as the British have. As is showed on the Web site, recommended in the mail by Thierry van Steenberghe, this is called WET and in summer it is WEST For France, Germany, The Netherlands and many more countries this Web site mention as name CET and CEST, that is GMT + 1 and GMT + 2 and not WET and WEST as Thierry wrote. So we also have a name confusion. In our language ( Dutch ) we speak about MET and MEZT, that means Middel Europese Tijd and Middel Europese Zomer Tijd. Fer. Fer J. de Vries [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.iae.nl/users/ferdv/ Eindhoven, Netherlands lat. 51:30 N long. 5:30 E - Original Message - From: Thierry van Steenberghe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: harriet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: sundial mailing list Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:36 PM Subject: Re: Time Zones > Dear Harriet, > > In addition to the pointers you've already received, you might also like to > have a look at http://www.timeanddate.com/time/abbreviations.html > > You are right to write "Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to the > 'correct' zone?" with quotes around the word 'correct'... > Actually, most Western European Union countries are on WET/WEST, which is 1 (or > 2, when DST is switched on) hours in advance of GMT. This is fairly nice when > travelling thorough the continent! > However, I think Greece might be on the next zone, 2 (or 3) hours in advance. > So it's not France who distinguishes from the rest, but ...UK who are the sole > to insist on 'their' GMT time (nowadays called UT). > (I should check for Ireland, but I'm pretty sure they are on WET/WEST too.) > And a trick: just get an airline timetable and look for the destinations of > interest. > > As for DST, it's now a EC law or is it just a recommendation? In any case there > is a text about it in the legislative database of the EC, fixing the dates of > ON and OFF. (Check the validity dates of your airline timetable!). > > Thierry > 50°50'N, 4°20'E > -- > __ > > Thierry van Steenberghe > Bruxelles / Belgium > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > __ > > harriet wrote: > > > > > Dear All, > > > > Can anyone clarify American and European time zones for me? I am trying > > to write instructions for setting up a dial which can be used in any > > location. > > > > The NASS dialist's companion gives the meridians for US time zones > > as: Atlantic 60° W > >Eastern 75° W > >Central 90°W > >Mountain 105° W > >Pacific 120°W > > > > Do all Americans adhere to these time zones, or are some like the French > > who > > like to be one hour ahead of GMT even though France lies within 7.5° of the > > Greenwich > > Meridian? > > > > If I set up a dial in say Pittsburg, Pennsylvania (longitude 80° W) which > > tells local solar time, > > ignoring corrections for the Equation of Time, am I correct in saying that > > it will run 20 minutes slow to Eastern Standard Time as it is 5° west of > > the Eastern time meridian? > > > > Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to the 'correct' zone? > > What about daylight saving in the US and Europe? > > > > Any help gratefully received. > > > > Harriet James > > > >
Re: Time Zones
Thierry wrote: >So it's not France who distinguishes from the rest, but ...UK who are the sole > to insist on 'their' GMT time (nowadays called UT). >(I should check for Ireland, but I'm pretty sure they are on WET/WEST too.) Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It seems to me that Spain and France should be the same too, but for their close ties with the rest of the European mainland. They are both mostly within 7.5° of the Greenwich meridian. there are even parts of Spain and France West of Greenwich! Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany (+1). It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was due to different timezones, but also different office hours. England worked 9-17.30 local with lunch from 12.30 - 13.30, Finland worked 7.30-16.00 local with lunch from 11.30 to 12.30, France and Germany something else again. Germany was extra complicated because the factory staff worked different hours to the operations staff, so there were two sets of times to remember. It is all a lot easier now with email isn't it? Thibaud - Thibaud Taudin-Chabot 52°18'19.85" North 04°51'09.45" East home email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (attachments max. 500kB; for larger attachments contact me first)
Re: Time Zones
Thierry wrote: >So it's not France who distinguishes from the rest, but ...UK who are the sole > to insist on 'their' GMT time (nowadays called UT). >(I should check for Ireland, but I'm pretty sure they are on WET/WEST too.) Ireland is on the same timezone at the UK, and so is Portugal. It seems to me that Spain and France should be the same too, but for their close ties with the rest of the European mainland. They are both mostly within 7.5° of the Greenwich meridian. Anyway, timezones don't solve the whole problem. When I lived in England I did a lot of business with Finland (+2 hours), and France and Germany (+1). It was difficult to contact colleagues when we needed to. Yes, this was due to different timezones, but also different office hours. England worked 9-17.30 local with lunch from 12.30 - 13.30, Finland worked 7.30-16.00 local with lunch from 11.30 to 12.30, France and Germany something else again. Germany was extra complicated because the factory staff worked different hours to the operations staff, so there were two sets of times to remember. I would happily put the whole of the EU on a single time zone, but only if there are also common start, finish and break times! Want to know who's going to win in your constituency? Try my UK Tactical Voting Wizard at http://users.eastlink.ca/~srgl/election2001.htm
Re: Time Zones
Dear Harriet, In addition to the pointers you've already received, you might also like to have a look at http://www.timeanddate.com/time/abbreviations.html You are right to write "Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to the 'correct' zone?" with quotes around the word 'correct'... Actually, most Western European Union countries are on WET/WEST, which is 1 (or 2, when DST is switched on) hours in advance of GMT. This is fairly nice when travelling thorough the continent! However, I think Greece might be on the next zone, 2 (or 3) hours in advance. So it's not France who distinguishes from the rest, but ...UK who are the sole to insist on 'their' GMT time (nowadays called UT). (I should check for Ireland, but I'm pretty sure they are on WET/WEST too.) And a trick: just get an airline timetable and look for the destinations of interest. As for DST, it's now a EC law or is it just a recommendation? In any case there is a text about it in the legislative database of the EC, fixing the dates of ON and OFF. (Check the validity dates of your airline timetable!). Thierry 50°50'N, 4°20'E -- __ Thierry van Steenberghe Bruxelles / Belgium mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ harriet wrote: > > Dear All, > > Can anyone clarify American and European time zones for me? I am trying > to write instructions for setting up a dial which can be used in any > location. > > The NASS dialist's companion gives the meridians for US time zones > as: Atlantic 60° W >Eastern 75° W > Central 90°W >Mountain 105° W >Pacific 120°W > > Do all Americans adhere to these time zones, or are some like the French > who > like to be one hour ahead of GMT even though France lies within 7.5° of the > Greenwich > Meridian? > > If I set up a dial in say Pittsburg, Pennsylvania (longitude 80° W) which > tells local solar time, > ignoring corrections for the Equation of Time, am I correct in saying that > it will run 20 minutes slow to Eastern Standard Time as it is 5° west of > the Eastern time meridian? > > Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to the 'correct' zone? > What about daylight saving in the US and Europe? > > Any help gratefully received. > > Harriet James
Time Zones
Dear Dialists Many thanks for the vast amounts of information about time zones. That will keep me quiet for a bit! Harriet James
Re: Time Zones
> "A.Brown" wrote: > > Hi All > I just wondered what members in the group think of the latest > zoneless time concept, Internet Time where the day is broken up > into beats eliminating the need for geographical based time > zones. Is it seen as helping to make ours one world or as > cynical "commercial" exploitation? More often than not I feel dumber than I'd like to admit. I have always seen this Swatch issue as one of the purest form of hype. When I hear anything about "beat" I see it as snake oil talk. We already have too many good ideas about time and Swatch time, in my humble opinion is NOT among them. First of all, I can't see how it will avoid the "time zone" issue. If it could do it, we would do better with a 24-hour clock adjusted for (say) GMT or UTC. And it would have the advantage of allowing quick and easy fall back to the old "time": it would be only a matter of each country/county/person "shifting" back or forth one hour per 15 degrees longitude. Or -- still more precise -- shifting hours, minutes and seconds so every single person in this world could use both a universal time and a very precise local time. Perhaps synchronized with the sun (as apposed to political time). In fact, that's how UNIX is supposed to work since 1970. It's clock counts the seconds since midnight of first of January, 1970. The trick is to make that midnight a UTC (or GMT) midnight). Than it will offer you a "universal time". Different applications apply certain rules to convert to local time. A user can set a "personal" variable named TZ or TIMEZONE (standards are so good some people have decided to offer us several of them for the same purpose!). This way, a single machine, running anywhere in the world, can provide a time corrected for any other place in the world. It is very hard to think Swatch "beats" has anything to add to this simple and effective idea. And has been working for tens of years. The Intel machine I use most has maybe the worst clock ever made. It drifts off by as much as 40 minutes per day! I don't care. I am connect to the Internet on a permanent basis so I what I do it to read the time from a very precise clock at ntp2.usno.navy.mil I have programmed my machine to do it each 5 minutes (I could have programmed it to do it at any interval I wished). So, in fact, the clock I see on my screen appear to be very, very precise. Now, the time I read is UTC (or is it GMT -- too lazy to check now). It does not matter. And so is the time my machine's clock keep. Nevertheless, the software I use for displaying the time takes my longitude into account and gives me what I want more often. So, off with Swatch! It adds nothing but confusion. It creates nothing, but downgrades previous creations. - fernando -- Fernando Cabral Padrao iX Sistemas Abertos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pix.com.br Fone Direto: +55 61 329-0206mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] PABX: +55 61 329-0202 Fax: +55 61 326-3082 15º 45' 04.9" S (23 L 0196446/8256520) 47º 49' 58.6" W 19º 37' 57.0" S (23 K 0469898/7829161) 45º 17' 13.6" W --
Re: Time Zones
standard time zones boundries were established, most localities requested to have the boundires modified from the 15 degre boundries to fit their policical regions. And several have mentioned tha Arizona (USA) does not go on "Daylight Savings Time" in the summer. Here is an interesting footnote. AZ stays on standard time all year round (Yeah!). However, the Navajo Indian (native american) Reservation occupies a large portion of Arizona and they do not follow the state, but rather follow the U.S. Gov't BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) and switch from MST fro MDT in the summer, rumored to be because of their dislike for the state and their reliance on the Fereral Gov't. However, the Hopi "Rez" is right in the middle of the Navajo Rez and they don't like the Navajo (long time dispute), so to show their distain for the Navajo, they go with the state and display clocks that show the standard time. Robert Hough 32.37 N 113.13 W _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
RE: Time Zones
Hi Roger, I've just received an email from the noted sundial designer Dr. April Furst,authorizing me to purchase, on her behalf, 91 shares in your proposed company formed to manufacture and sell watches which display loco [sic] time. Please send particulars asap. Thanks, Mac Oglesby I have a modest proposal as an alternative. Why doesn't Swatch produce a watch that shows local solar time. How often have you been frustrated trying to explain why high noon is at 1:41:30 pm clock time. Think how useful a solar watch would be in determining which direction is north for setting sundials. Celestial navigation would be easy as this would solve the longitude problem. A sidereal time or decimal Julian dates (Stardates) could be added as options. This watch could even replace the Dialists Companion that you downloaded from NASS. The technology is now available to make this product a reality. A built in GPS could provide inputs of latitude and longitude. A simple program could be burned into the ROM to calculate the Equation of Time and make the required adjustments. What a novel idea. I had better rush to the patent office. This could be a best seller, a modern digital device showing zoneless local time, a replacement for all those old analog artefacts that only work on those rare times when the sun is shining. Roger Bailey -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of A.Brown Sent: March 28, 2001 3:59 PM To: sundial group Subject: Re: Time Zones Hi All I just wondered what members in the group think of the latest zoneless time concept, Internet Time where the day is broken up into beats eliminating the need for geographical based time zones. Is it seen as helping to make ours one world or as cynical "commercial" exploitation? see <http://www.swatch.com/fs_index.php>http://www.swatch.com/fs_index.php
RE: Time Zones
I have a modest proposal as an alternative. Why doesn't Swatch produce a watch that shows local solar time. How often have you been frustrated trying to explain why high noon is at 1:41:30 pm clock time. Think how useful a solar watch would be in determining which direction is north for setting sundials. Celestial navigation would be easy as this would solve the longitude problem. A sidereal time or decimal Julian dates (Stardates) could be added as options. This watch could even replace the Dialists Companion that you downloaded from NASS. The technology is now available to make this product a reality. A built in GPS could provide inputs of latitude and longitude. A simple program could be burned into the ROM to calculate the Equation of Time and make the required adjustments. What a novel idea. I had better rush to the patent office. This could be a best seller, a modern digital device showing zoneless local time, a replacement for all those old analog artefacts that only work on those rare times when the sun is shining. Roger Bailey -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of A.BrownSent: March 28, 2001 3:59 PMTo: sundial groupSubject: Re: Time Zones Hi All I just wondered what members in the group think of the latest zoneless time concept, Internet Time where the day is broken up into beats eliminating the need for geographical based time zones. Is it seen as helping to make ours one world or as cynical "commercial" exploitation? see http://www.swatch.com/fs_index.php
Re: Time Zones
shortly after the French Revolution. If we wish a zoneless time then let's continue to use UTC, successor to GMT, with its bases 24 and 60. These have been around a lot longer than the Swatch. Gordon At 11:58 PM 3/28/01 +0100, you wrote: Hi All I just wondered what members in the group think of the latest zoneless time concept, Internet Time where the day is broken up into beats eliminating the need for geographical based time zones. Is it seen as helping to make ours one world or as cynical "commercial" exploitation? see <http://www.swatch.com/fs_index.php>http://www.swatch.com/fs_index.php Gordon Uber [EMAIL PROTECTED] San Diego, California USA Webmaster: Clocks and Time: http://www.ubr.com/clocks
Re: Time Zones
Harriet James wrote: > The NASS dialist's companion gives the meridians for US time zones > as: Atlantic 60° W >Eastern 75° W >Central 90°W >Mountain 105° W >Pacific 120°W > Do all Americans adhere to these time zones, or are some > like the French who like to be one hour ahead of GMT even > though France lies within 7.5° of the Greenwich Meridian? As already mentioned, the time zones in America do not strictly adhere to the 7.5 degrees on either side of the central meridian, but follow convenient political boundaries. Be aware that Newfoundland has a 3.5 hour offset from Greenwich. The central meridian would be 52.5°. Two islands quite close to Newfoundland maintain an even offset of of 3 hours. They are St. Pierre and Miquelon. As for the rest of the world there are a number of other half hour offsets. Among them are India, Iran, and Afghanistan. If that's not enough, Nepal has an offset of 5 hours 40 minutes. There is a world time zone map that is not easy to read at: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/world_tzones.html Bob Terwilliger co-author, with Fred Sawyer, of The Dialist's Companion.
Re: Time Zones
Harriet James wrote: > The NASS dialist's companion gives the meridians for US time zones > as: Atlantic 60° W >Eastern 75° W >Central 90°W >Mountain 105° W >Pacific 120°W > Do all Americans adhere to these time zones, or are some > like the French who like to be one hour ahead of GMT even > though France lies within 7.5° of the Greenwich Meridian? As already mentioned, the time zones in America do not strictly adhere to the 7.5 degrees on either side of the central meridian, but follow convenient political boundaries. Be aware that Newfoundland has a 3.5 hour offset from Greenwich. The central meridian would be 52.5°. Two islands quite close to Newfoundland maintain an even offset of of 3 hours. They are St. Pierre and Miquelon. As for the rest of the world there are a number of other half hour offsets. Among them are India, Iran, and Afghanistan. If that's not enough, Nepal has an offset of 5 hours 40 minutes. There is a world time zone map that is not easy to read at: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/world_tzones.html Bob Terwilliger co-author, with Fred Sawyer, of The Dialist's Companion.
Re: Time Zones
Hi All I just wondered what members in the group think of the latest zoneless time concept, Internet Time where the day is broken up into beats eliminating the need for geographical based time zones. Is it seen as helping to make ours one world or as cynical "commercial" exploitation? see http://www.swatch.com/fs_index.php
Re: Time Zones
Hi Gordon (and All), I was not aware that Indiana determined time by county, and we have lots of guys from Indiana who work here at FX. They did not even know that! This discussion leads me to the next logical question for a diallist trying to design a compensated sundial for someone far away - is there a site or reference on the web where one can input an address, as in Mapblast (where you can get Lat. and Long.), and find out what time it is there? What time regulations they adhere to? What (other than simply asking the client, of course) good ways are there for intrepid diallists to verify the time requirements of a remote site location? Jim Tallman Sr. Designer FX Studios - Original Message - From: "Gordon Uber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "harriet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "sundial mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:12 AM Subject: Re: Time Zones > Harriet, > > Your U.S. Time Zone designations are correct, but the boundaries are > determined politically, not strictly by latitude, and are subject to > change. For example, time in Indiana is determined by county, and a > redetermination was recently considered. However, I would think (probably > too optimistically) that most Americans know which time zone they are in. > > Daylight Saving Time is another complication, I think determined by each > state. Some in California are now proposing a Double Daylight Saving Time > due to the current energy crisis. > > Concerning Indiana see > http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20010319_3536.html > > Link to U.S. Code for Time Zone boundaries: > http://www.bldrdoc.gov/timefreq/general/history.htm > > Gordon > > > At 04:35 AM 3/27/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Dear All, > > > >Can anyone clarify American and European time zones for me? I am trying > >to write instructions for setting up a dial which can be used in any > >location. > > Gordon Uber [EMAIL PROTECTED] San Diego, California USA > Webmaster: Clocks and Time: http://www.ubr.com/clocks > > >
Re: Time Zones
Your U.S. Time Zone designations are correct, but the boundaries are determined politically, not strictly by latitude, and are subject to change. For example, time in Indiana is determined by county, and a redetermination was recently considered. However, I would think (probably too optimistically) that most Americans know which time zone they are in. Daylight Saving Time is another complication, I think determined by each state. Some in California are now proposing a Double Daylight Saving Time due to the current energy crisis. Concerning Indiana see http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20010319_3536.html Link to U.S. Code for Time Zone boundaries: http://www.bldrdoc.gov/timefreq/general/history.htm Gordon At 04:35 AM 3/27/01 -0500, you wrote: Dear All, Can anyone clarify American and European time zones for me? I am trying to write instructions for setting up a dial which can be used in any location. Gordon Uber [EMAIL PROTECTED] San Diego, California USA Webmaster: Clocks and Time: http://www.ubr.com/clocks
Re: Time Zones
Probably not. An indication of the historical complexity of US time zones is that bedside companion of all serious astrologers, a set of 3 books by Doris Chase Doane: Time Changes in the US Time Changes in Canada and Mexico Time Changes in the World of which the first is by far the thickest and most complex. History is by no means over, though. Bill Thayer 41N53 87W38 col cuore a 42N59.5 12E42.4 alt.313m http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/I/home.html
Re: Time Zones
Hello Harriet, The reference meridian is 75W for EST, and here in Cincinnati (approx 84W30) we are about 38 minutes behind the clock for local noon. At certain times of the year the difference between unadjusted dial time and watch time can be almost an hour! The official time zone lines weave about to try to miss towns, so check a map to be sure about a specific location. So, your estimate for Pittsburgh is about right. Indiana does not do Daylight Savings Time at all, and I don't think Arizona does either (John Carmichael can help you with that). We live right beside Indiana and there is a school nearby (in a place called College Corner) that actually has two time zones - the line runs right through the middle of the basketball court in the gymnasium - and on one wall the clock reads Indiana time and the other opposite wall has a clock displaying EST! That town lies right on the border and people have got quite a predicament on their hands getting somewhere on time...you have to know which side of the line the place you are going to is...quite interesting for business meetings and job interviews... Right now we are the same time as Indiana, in a few weeks we will be one hour off from them until the Fall. Do let me know when you have your dial done, I would love to see a picture of it! Jim Tallman Sr. Designer FX Studios - Original Message - From: "harriet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "sundial mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:35 AM Subject: Time Zones > Dear All, > > Can anyone clarify American and European time zones for me? I am trying > to write instructions for setting up a dial which can be used in any > location. > > The NASS dialist's companion gives the meridians for US time zones > as: Atlantic 60° W >Eastern 75° W >Central 90°W >Mountain 105° W >Pacific 120°W > > Do all Americans adhere to these time zones, or are some like the French > who > like to be one hour ahead of GMT even though France lies within 7.5° of the > Greenwich > Meridian? > > If I set up a dial in say Pittsburg, Pennsylvania (longitude 80° W) which > tells local solar time, > ignoring corrections for the Equation of Time, am I correct in saying that > it will run 20 minutes slow to Eastern Standard Time as it is 5° west of > the Eastern time meridian? > > Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to the 'correct' zone? > What about daylight saving in the US and Europe? > > Any help gratefully received. > > Harriet James > >
Re: Time Zones
The time zone boundaries in North America are quite irregular. Have a look at <http://www.nrc.ca/inms/time/tze.html> for the current Canadian time zone maps. -- Richard Langley Professor of Geodesy and Precision Navigation On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, harriet wrote: >Dear All, > >Can anyone clarify American and European time zones for me? I am trying >to write instructions for setting up a dial which can be used in any >location. > >The NASS dialist's companion gives the meridians for US time zones >as: Atlantic 60? W > Eastern 75? W > Central 90?W > Mountain 105? W > Pacific 120?W > >Do all Americans adhere to these time zones, or are some like the French >who >like to be one hour ahead of GMT even though France lies within 7.5? of the >Greenwich >Meridian? > >If I set up a dial in say Pittsburg, Pennsylvania (longitude 80? W) which >tells local solar time, >ignoring corrections for the Equation of Time, am I correct in saying that >it will run 20 minutes slow to Eastern Standard Time as it is 5? west of >the Eastern time meridian? > >Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to the 'correct' zone? >What about daylight saving in the US and Europe? > >Any help gratefully received. > >Harriet James > === Richard B. LangleyE-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geodetic Research Laboratory Web: http://www.unb.ca/GGE/ Dept. of Geodesy and Geomatics EngineeringPhone:+1 506 453-5142 University of New Brunswick Fax: +1 506 453-4943 Fredericton, N.B., Canada E3B 5A3 Fredericton? Where's that? See: http://www.city.fredericton.nb.ca/ ===
Time Zones
Dear All, Can anyone clarify American and European time zones for me? I am trying to write instructions for setting up a dial which can be used in any location. The NASS dialist's companion gives the meridians for US time zones as: Atlantic 60° W Eastern 75° W Central 90°W Mountain 105° W Pacific 120°W Do all Americans adhere to these time zones, or are some like the French who like to be one hour ahead of GMT even though France lies within 7.5° of the Greenwich Meridian? If I set up a dial in say Pittsburg, Pennsylvania (longitude 80° W) which tells local solar time, ignoring corrections for the Equation of Time, am I correct in saying that it will run 20 minutes slow to Eastern Standard Time as it is 5° west of the Eastern time meridian? Do countries in Europe apart from France adhere to the 'correct' zone? What about daylight saving in the US and Europe? Any help gratefully received. Harriet James
fusos horarios (time zones)
Tony, Each Fuso (time zone) has a Zonal Designation (a letter) and a Zonal Correction, to get the UT. The time zone Z has the Zero Meridian (Greenwich) in the middle, is called Zulu, and has for Correction 0. to East to West A -1 G -7N +1 T +7 B -2 H -8O +2 U +8 C -3 I -9 P +3V +9 D -4 K -10 Q +4 W +10 E -5 L -11 R +5 X +11 F -6 M -12 S +6 Y +12 M and Y are the same Fuso and it contains the Change of Day Line (not a straight line, because of Alaska and some Pacific Islands). jorge
Re: International Time Zones
In 1870 Charles F. Dowd of Saratoga, New York proposed the standard U.S. Time Zones for railroads. In 1872 these were adopted for U.S. and Canadian railroads. They had 1-hour intervals between zones. Sandford Fleming of Canada proposed these for worldwide use in 1876. These zones were gradually adopted, e.g., Canada in 1883, Liberia in 1972. The time zones are associated with and followed international adoption of the Greenwich Meridian and GMT. Cf. the First International Geographical Congress of 1871, the Seventh in 1883. The International Meridian Conference of 1884, Resolution V, established the universal day (GMT). At the end of that conference Great Britain proposed standard time to be used as local civil time, the intervals between zones to be multiples of ten minutes of time. This proposal was withdrawn. The conferences established GMT, and countries combined this with the Dowd/Fleming proposals to define their own standard times. For details see (e.g.) "Greenwich Time and the Longitude" by Derek Howse. This includes a table of adoption dates for each country. Gordon >Tony wrote the foolowing: >" >Fellow Shadow Watchers, > Can anyone tell me when (or if) the system of=20 >International Time Zones was formally established/recognized and by what=20 >authority? Did it just evolve from each country's individual needs and=20 >interpretations or was there an international conference at some stage? > >I have the British Admiralty World Time Zone Chart (5001) revised 1992=20 >but the notes thereon give no indication of its origins. > >The information is requested for the notes to accompany a public dial and= >=20 >if anyone has this to hand it would save some urgent trawling through=20 >reference material. > >Thanks in anticipation, > > >Tony Moss
International Time Zones
Tony, On the International (only 25 countries) Conference of Washington of 1884 were "aproved" not unanimously 1) To choose THE first meridian 2) To adopt one universal time 3) That the Universal Day should start at mean midnight of the first meridian Only several years later the first meridian was defined jorge
[Fwd: International Time Zones]
Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:43:36 -0400 From: Ross McCluney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Florida Solar Energy Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Moss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: International Time Zones References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony Moss wrote: > Fellow Shadow Watchers, >Can anyone tell me when (or if) the system of > International Time Zones was formally established/recognized and by > what..., Tony, does your map of time zones give the names of all of them? I could really use a list of the names of time zones. In the U.S., for example, ours are named eastern, central, mountain, pacific, and I'm not sure of the couple of zones covering Alaska and the Aleutian Islands. I've seen different names for those zones in different publications. I know that Australia has half hour time zones. Do they have names for those? Does China still have one official time zone, keeping Beijing time, even though this zone crosses a number of standard meridians? Thanks for your help. Ross McCluney
Re: International Time Zones
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Tony Moss wrote: >Fellow Shadow Watchers, > Can anyone tell me when (or if) the system of >International Time Zones was formally established/recognized and by what >authority? Did it just evolve from each country's individual needs and >interpretations or was there an international conference at some stage? > >I have the British Admiralty World Time Zone Chart (5001) revised 1992 >but the notes thereon give no indication of its origins. > >The information is requested for the notes to accompany a public dial and >if anyone has this to hand it would save some urgent trawling through >reference material. > >Thanks in anticipation, > > >Tony Moss The International Meridian Conference held in Washington, D.C. in 1884 established the zero meridian and the universal day but I don't think it specifically adopted the system of zones, which, in North America at least, was already in use by the railways. -- Richard Langley Professor of Geodesy and Precision Navigation === Richard B. Langley Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Geodetic Research Laboratory BITnet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dept. of Geodesy and Geomatics Engineering Phone:(506) 453-5142 University of New BrunswickFAX: (506) 453-4943 Fredericton, N.B., Canada E3B 5A3 Telex:014-46202 Fredericton? Where's that? See: http://www.city.fredericton.nb.ca/ ===
International Time Zones
Fellow Shadow Watchers, Can anyone tell me when (or if) the system of International Time Zones was formally established/recognized and by what authority? Did it just evolve from each country's individual needs and interpretations or was there an international conference at some stage? I have the British Admiralty World Time Zone Chart (5001) revised 1992 but the notes thereon give no indication of its origins. The information is requested for the notes to accompany a public dial and if anyone has this to hand it would save some urgent trawling through reference material. Thanks in anticipation, Tony Moss
