date:20091203


M van Ketel a écrit :

John Boyle wrote:

Phillip Jones wrote:

question wrote:

Is 2.0 a beta ?

At this point official no.


To the newsgroup: But from a USERS standpoint, a definite YES! :-(


Only to a minority groups point of view I think.

Mark (no real problems with SM 2 so far)



Ditto.

S.
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Re: 2.0 ?


M van Ketel wrote:

John Boyle wrote:

Phillip Jones wrote:

question wrote:

Is 2.0 a beta ?

At this point official no.


To the newsgroup: But from a USERS standpoint, a definite YES! :-(


Only to a minority groups point of view I think.

Mark (no real problems with SM 2 so far)

 no really true forms manager  built in.
Newsgroup post that suddenly mark themselves as read but you even read 
the first post, having to constantly rest the the msf files in newsgroups.


Download manger that works but does not activate show up on top as did 
in SM 1.1.18


hit either N key or next button while in email or news does  go to 
Director but does not open first message (I have a bug filled on this)


Default Theme does not have grippies where you can click and drop to 
topic list so you can mass mark as read then click again so you can 
reopen the text box to read messages (in Mac version) because designers 
wanted to follow to the letter some stupid guideline Apple put out for 
look and feel).


Simple email messages  take for ever and a day to load. progress bar 
keeps running until I hit reload.


Sending messages Progress bar keeps running then shows message copied 
successfully but I have to dismiss the window. Not knowing until it 
shows up whether it was sent.


This is to name but a few. I could find some others or think of some 
others but I don't have time or inclination.


It is faster, though

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Re: Collapsing threads


Daniel wrote:

Daniel wrote:

Martin Freitag wrote:

Daniel schrieb:

Currently using SM 1.1.15, but the situation has been ongoing.

When viewing threads here, I can tap the * sign and all threads
  are expanded.

How do I go the other way, i.e. collapse the threads?? Logically
tapping the - should be the answer but nothing happens. Tapping
  the / does nothing.

Anyone??

Use the \ (see the View Menu =  threads ;-) ) regards

Martin


Thank you, Martin. Of course I should have looked at the View
menu...just didn't think about it!!

Where is the logic though?? If the multiplication key * expands the
threads, wouldn't it be logical for the division key / to collapse
the threads?? So why was the \ key chosen??

Might check into bugzilla and see if I can find anything.

Daniel


Added my suggestion to bug (RFE) 215826

Quote
I was originally going to ask if the Collapse Thread key could be
changed from the \ to the / key, as this sort of makes sense, * to
expand, / to collapse, but if the / key is used for other functions,
would it be difficult to change the * key function from Expand Thread
to Toggle Open/Close Thread??
UnQuote

Daniel
I believe I am not sure / and \ is not allowed in file names its one of 
a few special characters. and may be a problem associated with 
newsgroups and email.


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Re: Sniffing and Spoofing


David E. Ross wrote:

On 12/2/2009 5:09 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:

I previously wrote [in part]:

Two recent threads in mozilla.support.seamonkey on this issue resulted
in very lengthy discussions.  See SeaMonkey and U.S. Government site
does not work at
news://news.mozilla.org:119/so-dntlowokak43wnz2dnuvz_r6dn...@mozilla.org
and Web site work in IE but not in SeaMonkey 2.0 at
news://news.mozilla.org:119/xfadnab_io4m4inwnz2dnuvz_oodn...@mozilla.org.


I can view the the TVGuide site with no problem and I do not have any
spoofing set up. I can not view the Government site in SM 2 as I do not
have any spoofing set.
as shown here:

Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; en-US;
rv:1.9.1.4) Gecko/20091017 SeaMonkey/2.0



The issue was not about viewing the TV Guide home page.  It was about
viewing individual scheduled programs.

I haven't tried the TV Guide site myself.  I merely followed the
discussion.


Doesn't function correctly on:
SM2
FF3.5
Camino
Opera,
iCab
OmniWeb
Safari 4.0.4

other than the the log in page and the items below the listings

Its bad coding all the way around. on all it looks and operates 
identically.
So whether Webkit or Gecko makes no difference.  I don't have access to 
chrome for Mac won't be out for another 3-4 months in an alpha version 
and and there hasn't been a version of IE  since 5.2.3 for the mac.

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Re: Sniffing and Spoofing


Leonidas Jones wrote:

Phillip Jones wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

Two recent threads in mozilla.support.seamonkey on this issue resulted
in very lengthy discussions. See SeaMonkey and U.S. Government site
does not work at
news://news.mozilla.org:119/so-dntlowokak43wnz2dnuvz_r6dn...@mozilla.org

and Web site work in IE but not in SeaMonkey 2.0 at
news://news.mozilla.org:119/xfadnab_io4m4inwnz2dnuvz_oodn...@mozilla.org.



I can view the the TVGuide site with no problem and I do not have any
spoofing set up. I can not view the Government site in SM 2 as I do not
have any spoofing set.
as shown here:

Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; en-US;
rv:1.9.1.4) Gecko/20091017 SeaMonkey/2.0



These are just more examples of errors being asserted in a Gecko browser
when the real problem are invalid sniffing for UA strings by Web
servers. These problems are not new. Tracking bug #334967 for these
problems was written on 21 Apr 2006. The earliest bug tracked by
#334967 was bug #166261, written on 2 September 2002 and now closed.

Novice users of SeaMonkey and other non-Firefox browsers that use Gecko
are often confused about what sniffing and spoofing are. This was
readily noticed in the two threads cited above, where one user
repeatedly claimed that he could not be spoofing because he didn't even
know what that meant. He very strongly stated that SeaMonkey 2.0 was
broken but SeaMonkey 1.1.18 was not because he could view two web sites
with the latter but not with the former. When instructed how to report
his UA strings for both versions of SeaMonkey in
mozilla.support.seamonkey, it was seen that his SeaMonkey 1.1.18 was
spoofing Firefox 2.0.0.7. When he migrated to SeaMonkey 2.0, the
user-set preference variable to continue such spoofing was not included.

The problem is usually attributed to invalid sniffing for Firefox when
Web servers should sniff for Gecko. The real problem is that servers
should not sniff at all. Interesting, informative, entertaining,
aesthetically pleasing Web sites can be created that can be
appropriately viewed by any modern browser without sniffing, providing
those sites fully comply with the W3C specifications.

To deal with this issue, I suggest the following:

1. Every detected instance of invalid sniffing must result in a bug
report blocking bug #334967. Documenting the problem via Bugzilla makes
it easier to communicate the problem to the Web site owner.

2. Today, much sniffing still excludes Opera, Safari, Konqueror, and
Chrome let alone non-Firefox Gecko browsers. When dealing with a bug
report tracked by bug #334967, Web site owners should be strongly urged
not to sniff at all because sniffing is excluding potential audiences
for their sites.

3. When helping users to defeat invalid sniffing, they should be
advised to treat spoofing as a temporary measure. Permanent sniffing
lends credence to assertions by Web developers that Firefox is the only
Gecko browser visiting their sites and that no one uses SeaMonkey.
Extensions such as PrefBar or User Agent Switcher should be recommended
because they revert the UA string back to the browser's true UA when
terminating or starting. Further, any spoofing must include the actual
SeaMonkey UA string with Firefox mere added; this is required so that
humans reviewing raw server logs will see that SeaMonkey is an actual
browser visiting their Web sites.

4. Users must be urged to contact the site owner with a complaint about
invalid sniffing, referring both to the bug report and to Gecko is
Gecko athttp://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Sardisson/Gecko_is_Gecko.

5. Management at both the Mozilla Foundation and the Mozilla
Corporation should make similar contacts via postal mail with executives
of the companies and agencies whose Web sites are causing problems.
(Many executives are still more responsive to postal mail than to
E-mail.) Such contacts to U.S. companies should mention that sniffing
might yield Web sites that violate the Americans with Disabilities Act
(ADA); contacts with U.S. federal agencies should mention that sniffing
might yield Web sites that violate Section 508 of the U.S.
Rehabilitation Act of 1986 (as amended in 1998).

6. If any complaint (#4 or #5 above) results in a response that no one
uses SeaMonkey, the responder should be asked to review the raw server
logs to see if SeaMonkey appears among the UA strings (see #3 above).






Phillip, the TV Guide site *looks* like it displays fine in SM 2.0 or
1.1.18, but not all of the functions work. Specifically, if you go to
the program listing and click onone of the shows, you are supposed to
get a box with information on that show.  If your UA is not spoofed, you
get a blank box.  If you spoof the UA as Firefox, you get the information.

Please test this and report back.

Lee

Just saw this:

Not SM 2 specific

Tried in SeaMonkey 2, FireFox 3.5, Camino, Opera, iCab,OmniWeb, and 
Safari.  They all look the same then act the same.


Don't have access to

Re: Sniffing and Spoofing


Leonidas Jones wrote:

Rufus wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

On 12/2/2009 5:09 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:

I previously wrote [in part]:

/snip/



I can't see the individual listing's either using a Mac and SM
1.1.18...but I have a question - do you have to log into the TV Guide
site in order to see the individual listings?..i.e.; have a subscription?



No, you just need to spoof as FF.

Lee

I couldn't get it to even function correctly on FF 3.5.5

 now the links bellow the listings work fine.

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Re: Sniffing and Spoofing


Arnie Goetchius wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:



5.  Management at both the Mozilla Foundation and the Mozilla
Corporation should make similar contacts via postal mail with executives
of the companies and agencies whose Web sites are causing problems.



(Many executives are still more responsive to postal mail than to
E-mail.)


Excellent point. Some of today's top executives  are not comfortable
having anyone see them typing at a keyboard. For them typing is for
administrative assistants, not for top management. Harumph!!

That hearkens back to the Fifties when when if a Male took Typing 
classes, his manhood was question. I considered taking Typing, but 
didn't want to be labeled a Q. Home Ec, an Typing was the domain of 
girls and Day Trades such as wood working,Auto Mechanics Sheet Metal 
Works/welding, Electronics were the domain of Males.  Pottery/and 
leather working was the one trade in which both were okay to go to. If 
ether crossed the line  people question whether you were Q or not.


--
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 Lightning Printing - Still no Luck

I'm on XP. Tried selecting all of the options - List, Monthly Grid and 
Weekly Planner. No preview (or whatever is supposed to be in the box), 
no  printing, no joy.


Push Print button, nothing happens.

I'll try the calendar support group, wanted to see if others had the 
same experience or better.


NoOp wrote:

On 12/02/2009 02:27 PM, Rob Steinmetz wrote:

Is Printing supposed to work in Seamonkey 2.0 Lightning pre1.x?.
When I try to print a month calendar I get the print menu, but no
preview in the box and hitting the print button doesn't seem to do anything.



Works for me (linux).
Try selecting 'Layout: Monthly Grid or Weekly Planner'.




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Re: 2.0 ?


Phillip Jones a écrit :

no really true forms manager built in.


That seems to be a feature people liked that hot discontinued. I won,t 
deny it's frustrating when it's something one uses constantly. That 
being said, considering the number of times it's been mentioned, either 
they'll re-add in a later version or someone will create an add-on for it.


Doesn't make SM2.0 a beta.


Newsgroup post that suddenly mark themselves as read but you even read
the first post, having to constantly rest the the msf files in newsgroups.



I don't have that problem. Newsgroups behave as they should. Maybe some 
of your settings are causing this?





Download manger that works but does not activate show up on top as did
in SM 1.1.18



The download manager acts as it should over here. There are some 
settings for it in Preferences, so you might want to look into that.





hit either N key or next button while in email or news does go to
Director but does not open first message (I have a bug filled on this)



That I confirm. It's inconvenient, true, but I'd hardly call it a major 
bug.




Default Theme does not have grippies where you can click and drop to
topic list so you can mass mark as read then click again so you can
reopen the text box to read messages (in Mac version) because designers
wanted to follow to the letter some stupid guideline Apple put out for
look and feel).



Well, then the Apple guideline is to blame, not SM itself.



Simple email messages take for ever and a day to load. progress bar
keeps running until I hit reload.
Sending messages Progress bar keeps running then shows message copied
successfully but I have to dismiss the window. Not knowing until it
shows up whether it was sent.



No such problems here.




This is to name but a few. I could find some others or think of some
others but I don't have time or inclination.



I'm sorry you seem to have such a miserable time of it, but it seems to 
be mostly a matter of preference about how things do work versus what 
you'd like them to (and I,m wondering if something in your systen or 
your settings might not explain some other of the problems you are 
experiencing). It doesn't make SM a bad or inadequate product. It more 
than mostly works as it should.





It is faster, though



Definitely! That's the first thing I noticed about it. And on my Win2K 
P4, it was much appreciated!


S.
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Re: 2.0 ?


S. Beaulieu wrote:

Ray_Net a écrit :

Ant wrote:

On 12/2/2009 7:18 AM PT, question typed:


Is 2.0 a beta ?


No.


But looks like :-)



Why?

Read all the posts in this newsgroup, you will see a *lot* of complains. 
Too much complains ...

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Re: 2.0 ?


MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 2/12/2009 23:36, John Boyle told the world:

Phillip Jones wrote:

question wrote:

Is 2.0 a beta ?

At this point official no.


To the newsgroup: But from a USERS standpoint, a definite YES! :-(


Speaking as someone who had *no* problems at all, whose migration went
flawlessly (despite having a somewhat complex mail setup) and who now
enjoys a lot of stuff that simply wasn't available for the old version,
I have to disagree.

No software *ever* hits the public in a perfect form. Bugs *will* be
found. But calling it a beta because of it... well, by that logic,
*all* software is beta.



when we see so much complains  it would be better to maintain the 
beta status some time longer ...

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Copying signons db between profiles

2009-12-03 Thread James Cloos

I tried copying the signons.sqlite db from one profile (migrated from
my 1.18 profile) to a new profile created in SM 2.0.

Both profiles have the same master passwd.

As you may guess, however, the contents of the signons.sqlite are
ignored by the new profile, even though lsof(8) confirms that it
has the file open and it will add working entries to that same file.

The differences between a new, working entry and the existing, ignored
entry are only that the migrated entries lack formsubmiturl fields and
the IV and crypt-text are of course different.  (As shown by derdump
from nss.)

Is a signons.sqlite file tied to another file in the profile, such as
key3.db?

Is there any clean way to merge signons between profiles?

-JimC
-- 
James Cloos cl...@jhcloos.com OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6
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Re: 2.0 ?


Ray_Net a écrit :



Read all the posts in this newsgroup, you will see a *lot* of complains.
Too much complains ...



What I see is a lot of the same people complaining about the same 
problem many times. Or even just situations where we have to learn to do 
things in a different way. It looks like a lot of complaints even though 
there only are several.


Minor problems are troublesome, but all new software have them. SM is no 
exception here. The more people use a software, the more stuff will show 
up. I don't think that's abnormal. Let me give you an example: do you 
know www.moviemistakes.com? As its name implies, it aims to list 
mistakes in movies. But the fact that a movie has hundreds of mistakes 
doesn't mean that the movie is bad or wasn't well-made: when you look at 
the list of the titles with the most entries, you realise that they are 
the most popular movies. So since way more people watched them, way more 
mistakes got submitted. Same thing here. Bugs will always be more 
obvious once a software is officially relesed than when only developers 
and beta testers are preparing it since way more people using way more 
specific system configurations will be using it.


Features that people liked that got discontinued—it's definitely 
annoying, but it's not a problem or a bug.


The one major problem I personally have was the CP one and as soon as 
it got reported, people got cracking and found a solution in no time. 
But as not everyone uses the same antivirus products, I don't think 
anyone could blame the developers for not seeing that one coming before 
the official launch. Plus, I'm still unconviced SM is to blame in this 
specific case.


All in all, I honestly believe that no matter the bugs currently 
reported, SM2.0 is in no way a beta-quality product. Just consider the 
amount of outstanding bugs for current and previous versions of FF, TB, 
IE, etc.


Sure, it should aim to be as bug-free as possible, but I don't think any 
software can ever achieve that stage.


All in all, SM2.0 does what it's meant to do.

S.
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Re: Timeline for Release of Seamonkey 2.x?


David E. Ross wrote:

On 12/2/2009 8:13 AM, Robert Kaiser wrote:

Of course, 2.0.x updates will come roughly every 6-8 weeks, in sync with
the Firefox 3.5.x updates, the next one is 2.0.1 and scheduled for
December 15 or 16.


Will any bugs pecurliar to SeaMonkey be fixed?  Will any bugs be fixed
other than security bugs?  Will any bugs be fixed other than those fixed
in Gecko for Firefox?


Sure, everything that is already fixed in current nightlies will be 
fixed. The list of bugs fixed in Gecko and SeaMonkey for this release is 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?product=Coreproduct=Toolkitproduct=MailNews+Coreproduct=SeaMonkeyproduct=Other+Applicationsfield0-0-0=keywordstype0-0-0=anywordsvalue0-0-0=fixed-seamonkey2.0.1field0-0-1=cf_status_191type0-0-1=anywordsvalue0-0-1=.5-fixed%2C.6-fixed 
and currently contains almost 80 public bugs (about 20 more remain 
closed for security reasons until the release is out).
Looking into that, you'll also find a number that are in the SeaMonkey 
product or explicitely mention SeaMonkey in their summary, so there are 
indeed things explicitely fixed for SeaMonkey in that 2.0.1 release - 
once it's available.


Robert Kaiser
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Re: Primary/Main e-mail address and additional e-mail address during composing e-mails in SM2...

2009-12-03 Thread Ant


On 12/2/2009 10:39 AM PT, Jens Hatlak typed:


Ant wrote:

Some of my addressbooks have two e-mail addresses for the same
contact/person. In v1.1.18, I would type in a name and SM would show me
both names to pick. In v2, it doesn't let me pick and always use the
primary/main one. How can I make this behavior happen in v2 like in
v1.1.18?


See When composing to someone with multiple e-mail addresses. thread
in this newsgroup, Nov 27th, started and closed by... you. ;-)


Crap. Sorry. I forgot about that. LOL!
--
What is this? A center for ants?! ...What? How can we be expected 
to teach children to learn  how read, if they can't even fit inside the 
building? Derek, it's just a-- I don't want to hear your excuses! 
The center has to be at least... three times bigger than this! ...He's 
absolutely right! --Zoolander movie

   /\___/\
  / /\ /\ \ Phil/Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
 | |o   o| |   Ant's Quality Foraged Links (AQFL): aqfldotnet (use .)
\ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netant
 ( )   or ant...@zimage.com
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer.
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Re: Sniffing and Spoofing

2009-12-03 Thread question


MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 3/12/2009 09:17, BeeNeR told the world:

On or about 12/2/2009 10:57 PM, question typed the following:

I think the Sniffing is a leftover from the Netscape /IE War . Thats
about the only way they could come up with Accurate Numbers ... Counting
the downloads of either Netscape or IE would not be that accurates as to
USER who actually use what they Download.
 The Good old days was when we Used Winsocks and Trumpet .

Yeh, the good old days.  When my PC running DOS 2.x connected to a SUN
server (Unix).  Had to use unix commands.

And after a while upgraded to DOS 6.2 and ran ProComm/ProComm Plus.
What a world of difference.

Viruses ran rapidly from PC to PC after one floppy after another got
contaminated.

Yep - the good old days. (:



I was a Telemate user myself, in the old DOS days. Tried a bunch of
stuff for Windows, including Procomm Plus... none was as good.

Oh, and I don't think IE ever used Trumpet. The Win9x versions didn't
need it, of course, since Win95 came with its own TCP/IP stack. But the
Win 3.x version came with its own Winsock stack. I have a VirtualPC
image somewhere with a fully Internet-functional Windows 3.11, including
IE 5... every couple of years I fire it up for laughs. Some day, I have
to find an old 16-bit Netscape to include in it too.

And... wasn't there some sort of DOS-based web browser, in the really
old days? Maybe a version of Lynx? I seem to remember a fully
self-contained Internet suite that ran from a single bootable floppy...


I remember TELIX
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Re: Sniffing and Spoofing

2009-12-03 Thread question


BeeNeR wrote:

On or about 12/2/2009 10:57 PM, question typed the following:

I think the Sniffing is a leftover from the Netscape /IE War . Thats
about the only way they could come up with Accurate Numbers ... Counting
the downloads of either Netscape or IE would not be that accurates as to
USER who actually use what they Download.
 The Good old days was when we Used Winsocks and Trumpet .


Yeh, the good old days.  When my PC running DOS 2.x connected to a SUN
server (Unix).  Had to use unix commands.

And after a while upgraded to DOS 6.2 and ran ProComm/ProComm Plus.


I still have the 720k disk that procomm Came on. Also have the 360k disk 
that Dos 6.2 is on. And the Floppy 1.44 with  Netscape 1.1



What a world of difference.

Viruses ran rapidly from PC to PC after one floppy after another got
contaminated.





Yep - the good old days. (:


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Re: Sniffing and Spoofing


Phillip Jones wrote:

Leonidas Jones wrote:

Phillip Jones wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

/snip/

Lee

Just saw this:

Not SM 2 specific

Tried in SeaMonkey 2, FireFox 3.5, Camino, Opera, iCab,OmniWeb, and
Safari. They all look the same then act the same.

Don't have access to Chrome Mac (won't be a version for Mac until about
spring or summer '10. And Hasn't been a Version for Mac of IE since
5.2.3 and I don't have that loaded. about half of these browsers are
Webkit and about half are gecko. So either there are errors on the page
coded badly or they have set to only work with Internet Exploder.



Well, I don't have time right now for extensive testing, but I did try 
it on 3.5.5, and it was working fine.  Unless they have changed 
something, there is something afoot.


Lee
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Re: Sniffing and Spoofing

2009-12-03 Thread question


Leonidas Jones wrote:

Phillip Jones wrote:

Leonidas Jones wrote:

Phillip Jones wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

/snip/

Lee

Just saw this:

Not SM 2 specific

Tried in SeaMonkey 2, FireFox 3.5, Camino, Opera, iCab,OmniWeb, and
Safari. They all look the same then act the same.

Don't have access to Chrome Mac (won't be a version for Mac until about
spring or summer '10. And Hasn't been a Version for Mac of IE since
5.2.3 and I don't have that loaded. about half of these browsers are
Webkit and about half are gecko. So either there are errors on the page
coded badly or they have set to only work with Internet Exploder.



Well, I don't have time right now for extensive testing, but I did try 
it on 3.5.5, and it was working fine.  Unless they have changed 
something, there is something afoot.


Lee

From tvguide site


For inquires regarding TVGuide.com syndicated listings, news, video and 
other products for your website, contact

Brandon DiMassa ( brandon.dima...@tvguide.com )
Vice President, Digital Media Syndication


Network PR requests

Online Executive Team
Paul Greenberg
Executive Vice President and General Manager, TV Guide Online

Josh Axelrod
Director, Program Management

Sasha Eysymontt
Vice President, Engineering

Kirsten Rasanen
Vice President, Online Product Development

Christy Tanner
Editor In Chief and Vice President, Marketing

Online Ad Sales
For all Sales  Advertising inquiries, please contact
Ian Wallin
Vice President, Online Advertising Sales

Keith Bockus
Vice President, East Coast Sales

Aaron Lug
Manager, West Coast Sales

Elaine Arber
Manager, Midwest Sales

Online Syndication

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Re: 2.0 ?


Ray_Net wrote:

MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 2/12/2009 23:36, John Boyle told the world:

Phillip Jones wrote:

question wrote:

Is 2.0 a beta ?

At this point official no.


To the newsgroup: But from a USERS standpoint, a definite YES! :-(


Speaking as someone who had *no* problems at all, whose migration went
flawlessly (despite having a somewhat complex mail setup) and who now
enjoys a lot of stuff that simply wasn't available for the old version,
I have to disagree.

No software *ever* hits the public in a perfect form. Bugs *will* be
found. But calling it a beta because of it... well, by that logic,
*all* software is beta.



when we see so much complains  it would be better to maintain the
beta status some time longer ...


I strongly disagree.

They went through, I think 3 RC's.  Versions were tested in house, then 
went to public alphas, betas, and RCs. The testing showed some major 
issues, which were corrected.  most of the problems we are seeing here 
are minor, the exceptions being the migration issues, and the form manager.


Any product that goes through a really major revision, and, under the 
hood, this might as well be a new product, is going to have issues like 
this.


You think you are seeing complaints now?  Wait til Thunderbird 3 reaches 
release. They are testing like crazy and fixing things,and delaying.  I 
predict there will still be storm when it hits release.


Wait til the software is perfect, and you might as well never release 
anything.


Lee
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Re: 2.0 ?

2009-12-03 Thread Danny Kile


Ray_Net wrote:

S. Beaulieu wrote:

Ray_Net a écrit :

Ant wrote:

On 12/2/2009 7:18 AM PT, question typed:


Is 2.0 a beta ?


No.


But looks like :-)



Why?


Read all the posts in this newsgroup, you will see a *lot* of complains.
Too much complains ...


Newsgroups are used mostly by users to seek answers to problems, so most 
posters will be people who have problems.

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Re: SM2.0 from Win2K to Win7

2009-12-03 Thread Martin Freitag


S. Beaulieu schrieb:

Martin Freitag a écrit :


Select the proper encoding there at the top (above the fonts).
Common encodings are Western and Unicode. If you change the fixed width
font for both, it should have an effect.



It changes the fonts in the body of emails/newsgroup messages, but
nowhere else.

Correct, this was one example ;-)
The others are not fixed width fonts. Feel free to change as many 
font-types as you need. (menubar might be taken from windows setting though)

For me the messages were the worst, the rest is pretty fine.
regards

Martin
--
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii
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Re: Copying signons db between profiles

2009-12-03 Thread Martin Freitag


James Cloos schrieb:

I tried copying the signons.sqlite db from one profile (migrated from
my 1.18 profile) to a new profile created in SM 2.0.

Both profiles have the same master passwd.

As you may guess, however, the contents of the signons.sqlite are
ignored by the new profile, even though lsof(8) confirms that it
has the file open and it will add working entries to that same file.

The differences between a new, working entry and the existing, ignored
entry are only that the migrated entries lack formsubmiturl fields and
the IV and crypt-text are of course different.  (As shown by derdump
from nss.)

Is a signons.sqlite file tied to another file in the profile, such as
key3.db?



Afaik, yes.



Is there any clean way to merge signons between profiles?

If you're familiar with databases, maybe SQLite Manager is worth a try.
regards

Martin
--
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/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - http://www.gerstbach.at/2004/ascii
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Re: 2.0 ?


S. Beaulieu wrote:

Phillip Jones a écrit :

no really true forms manager built in.


That seems to be a feature people liked that not discontinued. I won't
deny it's frustrating when it's something one uses constantly. That
being said, considering the number of times it's been mentioned, either
they'll re-add in a later version or someone will create an add-on for it.

Doesn't make SM2.0 a beta.


Newsgroup post that suddenly mark themselves as read but you even read
the first post, having to constantly rest the the msf files in newsgroups.



I don't have that problem. Newsgroups behave as they should. Maybe some
of your settings are causing this?




Download manger that works but does not activate show up on top as did
in SM 1.1.18



The download manager acts as it should over here. There are some
settings for it in Preferences, so you might want to look into that.




hit either N key or next button while in email or news does go to
Director but does not open first message (I have a bug filled on this)



That I confirm. It's inconvenient, true, but I'd hardly call it a major
bug.


Wasn't in SM 1.1.18 I'd consider it a bug.



Default Theme does not have grippies where you can click and drop to
topic list so you can mass mark as read then click again so you can
reopen the text box to read messages (in Mac version) because designers
wanted to follow to the letter some stupid guideline Apple put out for
look and feel).



Well, then the Apple guideline is to blame, not SM itself.


No the blame is following the guideline to the letter to the point of 
destroying a useful feature. thing is any add on themes have them.  Is 
Apple jumping up and down. No. what they are more interested in its that 
items such a File, edit. view, options, tools, window, and help and 
other items on main menu are in exactly the same place and that the 
control items on each of the menus are in the exact same Place.




Simple email messages take for ever and a day to load. progress bar
keeps running until I hit reload.
Sending messages Progress bar keeps running then shows message copied
successfully but I have to dismiss the window. Not knowing until it
shows up whether it was sent.



No such problems here.


Didn't show up in SM1.1.18.




This is to name but a few. I could find some others or think of some
others but I don't have time or inclination.



I'm sorry you seem to have such a miserable time of it, but it seems to
be mostly a matter of preference about how things do work versus what
you'd like them to (and I,m wondering if something in your systen or
your settings might not explain some other of the problems you are
experiencing). It doesn't make SM a bad or inadequate product. It more
than mostly works as it should.




It is faster, though



Definitely! That's the first thing I noticed about it. And on my Win2K
P4, it was much appreciated!

S.
I've checked all my settings and they are carbon copies of setting I 
used in 1.1.18


--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it
http://www.phillipmjones.net   http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com
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Re: 2.0 ?


S. Beaulieu wrote:
---snip---


Features that people liked that got discontinued—it's definitely
annoying, but it's not a problem or a bug.


It is when people depend upon them.



---snip---

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it
http://www.phillipmjones.net   http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com
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Re: SM2.0 from Win2K to Win7


Martin Freitag a écrit :

Correct, this was one example ;-)


Ah! Gotcha!

But I guess I'm getting used to it as it doesn't bother me as much as it 
did yesterday. It's only when text is bolded (for example, new messages) 
that it's really obvious, with a kind of reddish halo.


Altogether, depending on the fonts, it looks like text hasn't been 
aliased/is oversharpened or is oversmoothed. It's really strange.


Thanks for your help!

S.

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Re: 2.0 ?


Phillip Jones a écrit :

Well, then the Apple guideline is to blame, not SM itself.


No the blame is following the guideline to the letter to the point of
destroying a useful feature.




But what's the point of having a guideline if no one uses it? Standards 
are standards. You can't pick and choose which part of them to keep. 
It's all or nothing.


If you want to complain, complain to Apple. The SM team did what they 
were required to and should be lauded for it.


S.
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Re: 2.0 ?


Phillip Jones a écrit :

Features that people liked that got discontinued—it's definitely
annoying, but it's not a problem or a bug.


It is when people depend upon them.



it's a problem *for them*, but it's not a SeaMonkey problem as the 
software acts as it's meant to. That's what I meant.


S.

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 Lightning Printing - Still no Luck

On 12/03/2009 08:18 AM, Rob Steinmetz wrote:
 I'm on XP. Tried selecting all of the options - List, Monthly Grid and 
 Weekly Planner. No preview (or whatever is supposed to be in the box), 
 no  printing, no joy.
 
 Push Print button, nothing happens.
 
 I'll try the calendar support group, wanted to see if others had the 
 same experience or better.

Not sure what the issue might be; I just tested in Win2KPro and WinXP
and selecting Monthly Grid and Weekly Planner works for me.

Are you using the latest nightly?
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/lightning/download.html#nightly
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/calendar/lightning/nightly/latest-comm-1.9.1/win32-xpi/

 
 NoOp wrote:
 On 12/02/2009 02:27 PM, Rob Steinmetz wrote:
 Is Printing supposed to work in Seamonkey 2.0 Lightning pre1.x?.
 When I try to print a month calendar I get the print menu, but no
 preview in the box and hitting the print button doesn't seem to do anything.


 Works for me (linux).
 Try selecting 'Layout: Monthly Grid or Weekly Planner'.


 

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Re: Sniffing and Spoofing

On 12/02/2009 05:49 PM, Leonidas Jones wrote:
 Rufus wrote:
 David E. Ross wrote:
 On 12/2/2009 5:09 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
 I previously wrote [in part]:
 /snip/
 

 I can't see the individual listing's either using a Mac and SM
 1.1.18...but I have a question - do you have to log into the TV Guide
 site in order to see the individual listings?..i.e.; have a subscription?

 
 No, you just need to spoof as FF.
 
 Lee

Correct. This was discussed at length over on mozilla.dev.apps.seamonkey
(see TVguide - third time thread Oct 26).

From my testing then:

 It's a browser sniffer issue.
 
 I tried 1.1.18 (windows and linux) and 2.0pre and 2.0 final (rc2) and
 got the white blank that you are referring to. In Firefox 3.5.3 (windows
 and linux) I had no issues.
 
 So, using prefbar I added a Firefox (linux) UA:
 Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.3) Gecko/20090824
 Firefox/3.5.3
 and checked again in 1.1.18 and 2.0(pre and final) and the site
 displayed listings just fine.
   In 2.0 (linux) I even have it showing the listings in one tab w/the Fx
 UA, and then switched to a different window  tab, turned off the Fx UA
 and that one is showing the blanks.
 
 Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.4) Gecko/20091017
 Lightning/1.0pre SeaMonkey/2.0

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Re: SM2.0 from Win2K to Win7

On 12/03/2009 10:18 AM, Martin Freitag wrote:
 S. Beaulieu schrieb:
 Martin Freitag a écrit :

 Select the proper encoding there at the top (above the fonts).
 Common encodings are Western and Unicode. If you change the fixed width
 font for both, it should have an effect.


 It changes the fonts in the body of emails/newsgroup messages, but
 nowhere else.
 Correct, this was one example ;-)
 The others are not fixed width fonts. Feel free to change as many 
 font-types as you need. (menubar might be taken from windows setting though)
 For me the messages were the worst, the rest is pretty fine.
 regards
 
 Martin

I've been able to change the fonts for message/news body, browser, menus
(system), but cannot seem to find a way to change the font size on the
the message/news headers (subject/from/date/etc). I seem to recall that
there was a fix for this using prefs.js or something in chrome, but
can't seem to find it in my files. Anyone recall how to do this - the
headers are so small on my Windows systems (Win2KPro and WinXP - default
theme) that I can barely read them.

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Re: 2.0 ?

2009-12-03 Thread me2

My sole complaint about SM 2. is the removal of form manger - my
objections come from two directions:
1) the feature was used by many of us for many years and was somewhat
unique among browsers, and 2)  the removal of a feature is not an
improvement,  and adding insult to injury, some here seem ready to
dismiss those of us who used that function- telling us to make do with
a firefox handme down.
Firefox is nice - I have a copy on one my machines, but if SM's claim
to fame is to be reduced to saying were firefox and thunderbird in
one package, what's the point?

The number of complaints here and other places about the removal of
form manger is just the tip of the iceberg- most don't complaint, they
vote with their feet and go looking for a replacement.

I've said before, but it bears repeating I am very aware of the debt I
owe the unsung heroes who have kept SM going, my rumbling here in no
way reduces that, but at the same time I feel it appropriate to remind
those here that SM IN ITS ORIGINAL concept was part of the true linage
of Netscape and that is its true claim to fame.

Restore form manager ...



isOn Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:35:27 -0500, Phillip Jones
pjon...@kimbanet.com wrote:

Leonidas Jones wrote:
 Ray_Net wrote:
 MCBastos wrote:
 Interviewed by CNN on 2/12/2009 23:36, John Boyle told the world:
 Phillip Jones wrote:
 question wrote:
 Is 2.0 a beta ?
 At this point official no.

 To the newsgroup: But from a USERS standpoint, a definite YES! :-(

 Speaking as someone who had *no* problems at all, whose migration went
 flawlessly (despite having a somewhat complex mail setup) and who now
 enjoys a lot of stuff that simply wasn't available for the old version,
 I have to disagree.

 No software *ever* hits the public in a perfect form. Bugs *will* be
 found. But calling it a beta because of it... well, by that logic,
 *all* software is beta.


 when we see so much complains  it would be better to maintain the
 beta status some time longer ...

 I strongly disagree.

 They went through, I think 3 RC's.  Versions were tested in house, then
 went to public alphas, betas, and RCs. The testing showed some major
 issues, which were corrected.  most of the problems we are seeing here
 are minor, the exceptions being the migration issues, and the form manager.

 Any product that goes through a really major revision, and, under the
 hood, this might as well be a new product, is going to have issues like
 this.

 You think you are seeing complaints now?  Wait til Thunderbird 3 reaches
 release. They are testing like crazy and fixing things,and delaying.  I
 predict there will still be storm when it hits release.

 Wait til the software is perfect, and you might as well never release
 anything.

 Lee
Actually 2 RC a notice was put up after the second one about it being 
wrong wait for the third which followed a day later.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 Lightning Printing - Still no Luck


I'll try the latest one. I'm using one for a month or so ago.

NoOp wrote:

On 12/03/2009 08:18 AM, Rob Steinmetz wrote:

I'm on XP. Tried selecting all of the options - List, Monthly Grid and
Weekly Planner. No preview (or whatever is supposed to be in the box),
no  printing, no joy.

Push Print button, nothing happens.

I'll try the calendar support group, wanted to see if others had the
same experience or better.


Not sure what the issue might be; I just tested in Win2KPro and WinXP
and selecting Monthly Grid and Weekly Planner works for me.

Are you using the latest nightly?
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/lightning/download.html#nightly
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/calendar/lightning/nightly/latest-comm-1.9.1/win32-xpi/



NoOp wrote:

On 12/02/2009 02:27 PM, Rob Steinmetz wrote:

Is Printing supposed to work in Seamonkey 2.0 Lightning pre1.x?.
When I try to print a month calendar I get the print menu, but no
preview in the box and hitting the print button doesn't seem to do anything.



Works for me (linux).
Try selecting 'Layout: Monthly Grid or Weekly Planner'.








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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 Lightning Printing - Still no Luck

On 12/03/2009 01:21 PM, Rob Steinmetz wrote:
 I'll try the latest one. I'm using one for a month or so ago.
I put the link to the nightly on my personal bookmark bar - that way I
remember to update when I also update my 2.01pre nightly as well.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 Lightning Printing - Still no Luck

I don't really do a lot of updating. I was testing for a rollout here. 
This is a showstopper.


I just updated to the latest nightly and I'm still unable to print the 
calendar.


I have no idea what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions?

Is there a screen shot of what it's supposed to look like? It looks to 
me like something is missing from my print window. I have a big blank 
box on the right.


NoOp wrote:

On 12/03/2009 01:21 PM, Rob Steinmetz wrote:

I'll try the latest one. I'm using one for a month or so ago.

I put the link to the nightly on my personal bookmark bar - that way I
remember to update when I also update my 2.01pre nightly as well.


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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 Lightning Printing - Still no Luck

2009-12-03 Thread Hartmut Figge

Rob Steinmetz:

I just updated to the latest nightly and I'm still unable to print the 
calendar.

I have no idea what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions?

Disable all other add-ons to test if the problem still exists. If not,
try to find the guilty one by successive enabling the others.

If disabling does not help, create a new test profile and install only
lightning there.

Hartmut
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 Lightning Printing - Still no Luck


Lightning is the only ad in, except for the ones that come with SeaMonkey.

Hartmut Figge wrote:

Rob Steinmetz:


I just updated to the latest nightly and I'm still unable to print the
calendar.

I have no idea what is causing the problem. Do you have any suggestions?


Disable all other add-ons to test if the problem still exists. If not,
try to find the guilty one by successive enabling the others.

If disabling does not help, create a new test profile and install only
lightning there.

Hartmut


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Re: Sending e-mail later in outbox in SM2.0...

2009-12-03 Thread Paul B. Gallagher


Phillip Jones wrote:

Martin Freitag wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher schrieb:

Phillip Jones wrote:

Ant wrote:

On 12/1/2009 2:40 AM PT, Daniel typed:


Sorry, Martin, where do you get outbox from??? Is this
something new for version 2.0?? It doesn't appear,
natively, in my SM 1.1.15 (and older) profile!!


When you use Send Later, where does it go?

Drafts.


On my system, it's always gone to Unsent Messages. No such
thing as Outbox, though that's an understandable description of
what Unsent Messages is.


Yeah, used to be unsent messages in my SM1.x too, it's outbox now
 (either because of SM2 or because it's due to my change to IMAP),
should be the same.


Drafts is just a temporary holding area for messages you're
working on. If you do File | Send Unsent Messages, anything in
Drafts will stay there.


cooorect :-)

Martin


Templates is the one where anything put in it stays in it.

Drafts is just that, it where you put your draft and then when you 
choose Edit Message as new and send it. it is sent and move to sent 
messages. It will stay as long as you do nothing with it . But once 
acted on its moved.


In version 1 (correct me if there are changes in v.2), I can explicitly 
save a message as a draft, and it stays there indefinitely until I take 
some explicit action like deleting or sending it. Additionally, the 
program automatically saves the message I'm currently composing as a 
draft every five minutes (default, I can set a different interval), as a 
backup measure. So if I take more than five minutes to compose, there's 
a backup copy until I hit Send. If transmission succeeds, SM moves it 
to Sent, otherwise it keeps it in Drafts and notifies me of the problem.


If I manually save a message as a draft more than once, I get a series 
of drafts in the Drafts folder, and when I finally send it, only the 
latest version is moved to Sent. I must delete the previous versions 
manually. But autosaved drafts overwrite the previous version.


In one case, I had a troublesome message in Drafts for several weeks 
as I went back and forth over how to compose it. Eventually, I thought 
better of it and deleted it. But SM never bothered it. It stayed put 
just as if it were in any other folder.


As noted above, Send Unsent Messages does not affect the contents of 
Drafts. It only looks in Unsent Messages (v.1) or Outbox (v.2).


The advantage of Templates is that if I open one, compose and send it, 
the original stays put and I can reopen it and draft another message 
based on that same template. Each modified version, when sent, is copied 
to Sent, but the untouched original stays put.


And finally, messages saved in user-created folders stay put, too, until 
the user moves or deletes them.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 Lightning Printing - Still no Luck

2009-12-03 Thread Hartmut Figge

Rob Steinmetz:

Lightning is the only ad in, except for the ones that come with SeaMonkey.

Interesting. In that case i would suspect the prefs.js. To test that
create a new profile, switch to it and  install lightning there.

By the way, top posting is evil.

Hartmut
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Re: Migration wizard hangs

2009-12-03 Thread Paul B. Gallagher


Mark Hansen wrote:

On 12/2/2009 12:36 PM, Rob Steinmetz wrote:
Mine took much longer that 30 minutes but I have an unreasonably large 
amount of mail in my Local Folders. It did appear to hang with no 
indication of progress. I put my hands in my pockets took a walk and got 
another cup of coffee. It did eventually transfer everything with no errors.


Perhaps a progress indicator might be in order.


Yes, I agree. Something more than just a spinning widget. Perhaps
something that explains which data is currently being worked on,
like:

  Migrating Inbox...
  Migrating Drafts...
  Migrating Passwords...
  etc.

That way, you would see things happening. This IMO makes it much
easier for a Human to wait on a machine to finish.


But we're not supposed to wait on machines, they're supposed to wait on us!

;-)

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
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Lightning Printing Oddity.

After first having trouble getting printing to work I found a couple of 
oddities in printing from Lightning under SeaMonkey.2.0


First the Page Set Up is grayed out when a Lightning Tab is selected. 
At least some of the page preferences are still active and needed. For 
example Print Background Colors and Images, needs to be on to print 
colored calendars. Landscape could be useful.


Print Preview is also grayed out. It could also be useful.

Finally the Monthly Grid does not print Category Colors.

--
Rob
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Re: Migration wizard hangs

2009-12-03 Thread Mark Hansen

On 12/3/2009 2:56 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
 But we're not supposed to wait on machines, they're supposed to wait on us!
 
 ;-)
 

Actually, we build machines to do things for us, therefore we wait on them :-)
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Re: Timeline for Release of Seamonkey 2.x?

Robert Kaiser wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

On 12/2/2009 8:13 AM, Robert Kaiser wrote:

Of course, 2.0.x updates will come roughly every 6-8 weeks, in sync with
the Firefox 3.5.x updates, the next one is 2.0.1 and scheduled for
December 15 or 16.

Will any bugs pecurliar to SeaMonkey be fixed? Will any bugs be fixed
other than security bugs? Will any bugs be fixed other than those fixed
in Gecko for Firefox?

Sure, everything that is already fixed in current nightlies will be
fixed. The list of bugs fixed in Gecko and SeaMonkey for this release is
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?product=Coreproduct=Toolkitproduct=MailNews+Coreproduct=SeaMonkeyproduct=Other+Applicationsfield0-0-0=keywordstype0-0-0=anywordsvalue0-0-0=fixed-seamonkey2.0.1field0-0-1=cf_status_191type0-0-1=anywordsvalue0-0-1=.5-fixed%2C.6-fixed
and currently contains almost 80 public bugs (about 20 more remain
closed for security reasons until the release is out).
Looking into that, you'll also find a number that are in the SeaMonkey
product or explicitely mention SeaMonkey in their summary, so there are
indeed things explicitely fixed for SeaMonkey in that 2.0.1 release -
once it's available.

Robert Kaiser

For the question:
Will any bugs pecurliar to SeaMonkey be fixed? Will any bugs be fixed
other than security bugs? Will any bugs be fixed other than those fixed
in Gecko for Firefox?
The answer is NO only the already fixed in current nightlies will
be fixed.

:-)
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Re: 2.0 ?


S. Beaulieu wrote:

Phillip Jones a écrit :

Features that people liked that got discontinued—it's definitely
annoying, but it's not a problem or a bug.


It is when people depend upon them.



it's a problem *for them*, but it's not a SeaMonkey problem as the 
software acts as it's meant to. That's what I meant.




Therefore, you consider SM2.0 all ok, because you were not affected.
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Re: 2.0 ?


Leonidas Jones wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 2/12/2009 23:36, John Boyle told the world:

Phillip Jones wrote:

question wrote:

Is 2.0 a beta ?

At this point official no.


To the newsgroup: But from a USERS standpoint, a definite YES! :-(


Speaking as someone who had *no* problems at all, whose migration went
flawlessly (despite having a somewhat complex mail setup) and who now
enjoys a lot of stuff that simply wasn't available for the old version,
I have to disagree.

No software *ever* hits the public in a perfect form. Bugs *will* be
found. But calling it a beta because of it... well, by that logic,
*all* software is beta.



when we see so much complains  it would be better to maintain the
beta status some time longer ...


I strongly disagree.

They went through, I think 3 RC's.  Versions were tested in house, then 
went to public alphas, betas, and RCs. The testing showed some major 
issues, which were corrected.  most of the problems we are seeing here 
are minor, the exceptions being the migration issues, and the form manager.



In my opinion, the migration issues are MAJOR ISSUES ...
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Re: Lightning Printing Oddity.

On 12/03/2009 03:03 PM, Rob Steinmetz wrote:
...
 
 Finally the Monthly Grid does not print Category Colors.
 

Works for me... perhaps you need to reboot again :-)


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Re: Sending e-mail later in outbox in SM2.0...


Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Phillip Jones wrote:

Martin Freitag wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher schrieb:

Phillip Jones wrote:

Ant wrote:

On 12/1/2009 2:40 AM PT, Daniel typed:


Sorry, Martin, where do you get outbox from??? Is this
something new for version 2.0?? It doesn't appear,
natively, in my SM 1.1.15 (and older) profile!!


When you use Send Later, where does it go?

Drafts.


On my system, it's always gone to Unsent Messages. No such
thing as Outbox, though that's an understandable description of
what Unsent Messages is.


Yeah, used to be unsent messages in my SM1.x too, it's outbox now
  (either because of SM2 or because it's due to my change to IMAP),
should be the same.


Drafts is just a temporary holding area for messages you're
working on. If you do File | Send Unsent Messages, anything in
Drafts will stay there.


cooorect :-)

Martin


Templates is the one where anything put in it stays in it.

Drafts is just that, it where you put your draft and then when you
choose Edit Message as new and send it. it is sent and move to sent
messages. It will stay as long as you do nothing with it . But once
acted on its moved.


In version 1 (correct me if there are changes in v.2), I can explicitly
save a message as a draft, and it stays there indefinitely until I take
some explicit action like deleting or sending it. Additionally, the
program automatically saves the message I'm currently composing as a
draft every five minutes (default, I can set a different interval), as a
backup measure. So if I take more than five minutes to compose, there's
a backup copy until I hit Send. If transmission succeeds, SM moves it
to Sent, otherwise it keeps it in Drafts and notifies me of the problem.

correct the way it supposed to work, Now templates whatever is there is 
permanent until you remove it. when you send something you send a copy 
not the original.

If I manually save a message as a draft more than once, I get a series
of drafts in the Drafts folder, and when I finally send it, only the
latest version is moved to Sent. I must delete the previous versions
manually. But autosaved drafts overwrite the previous version.


On Mac if you save as another Draft another copy is added with the exact 
same name just the date and time is different.


In one case, I had a troublesome message in Drafts for several weeks
as I went back and forth over how to compose it. Eventually, I thought
better of it and deleted it. But SM never bothered it. It stayed put
just as if it were in any other folder.

As noted above, Send Unsent Messages does not affect the contents of
Drafts. It only looks in Unsent Messages (v.1) or Outbox (v.2).

The advantage of Templates is that if I open one, compose and send it,
the original stays put and I can reopen it and draft another message
based on that same template. Each modified version, when sent, is copied
to Sent, but the untouched original stays put.

And finally, messages saved in user-created folders stay put, too, until
the user moves or deletes them.



Where do you copy message that may need to be resent to newsgroups.

In previous SM and Mozilla You could have seamonkey copy a message and 
if it needed to be resent (problem at the newsgroup or whatever) you 
could go to that copy choose edit massage as new. then choose send and 
it would.
 Now if you try a message comes up message was not sent, and something 
about  for email only and if you continued command will be ignored.


this is regardless if copied to email directory or to the Local Directory.
--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it
http://www.phillipmjones.net   http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com
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Re: Timeline for Release of Seamonkey 2.x?


Ray_Net wrote:

For the question:
Will any bugs pecurliar to SeaMonkey be fixed? Will any bugs be fixed
other than security bugs? Will any bugs be fixed other than those fixed
in Gecko for Firefox?
The answer is NO  only the already fixed in current nightlies will
be fixed.


The answer is YES, YES, and YES, if you compare to SeaMonkey 2.0 final, 
and that's what counts in the end, right?


Robert Kaiser
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Re: 2.0 ?


Ray_Net wrote:

Leonidas Jones wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

MCBastos wrote:

Interviewed by CNN on 2/12/2009 23:36, John Boyle told the world:

Phillip Jones wrote:

question wrote:

Is 2.0 a beta ?

At this point official no.


To the newsgroup: But from a USERS standpoint, a definite YES! :-(


Speaking as someone who had *no* problems at all, whose migration went
flawlessly (despite having a somewhat complex mail setup) and who now
enjoys a lot of stuff that simply wasn't available for the old version,
I have to disagree.

No software *ever* hits the public in a perfect form. Bugs *will* be
found. But calling it a beta because of it... well, by that logic,
*all* software is beta.



when we see so much complains  it would be better to maintain the
beta status some time longer ...


I strongly disagree.

They went through, I think 3 RC's. Versions were tested in house, then
went to public alphas, betas, and RCs. The testing showed some major
issues, which were corrected. most of the problems we are seeing here
are minor, the exceptions being the migration issues, and the form
manager.


In my opinion, the migration issues are MAJOR ISSUES ...


They are major for those who are experiencing them, which not everyone 
by any means.  I migrated profiles on five machines, all without issue, 
Macs and Windows.


If you think that the people who post here represent a majority of 
users, you are sadly mistaken.  It is an issue surely, and a major one 
for those who experience it, but for most it has gone smoothly.


Perhaps if some of the people who had migration problems had 
participated in the testing phase and shown a problem, something might 
have been done. I tested from the alphas on and reported no problem with 
the migration because I had none.  Every time I installed a build from 
alpha 1 up, I trashed the previous profile to run the migration again, 
and every time it worked smoothly.  It took a long time, since I have 20 
email accounts and 11 new accounts, and the data is stored in a non 
default location.  With that involved email profile, I fully expected 
the migration to fail, but it didn't. I did send a couple of crash 
reports during the alphas, but it really only crashed a couple of times.


It would be fair to say that the project could have benefited from a 
wider body of testers, but based on those people who did test it wasn't 
broken.


Lee
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Re: 2.0 ?


Ray_Net wrote:

S. Beaulieu wrote:

Phillip Jones a écrit :

Features that people liked that got discontinued—it's definitely
annoying, but it's not a problem or a bug.


It is when people depend upon them.



it's a problem *for them*, but it's not a SeaMonkey problem as the
software acts as it's meant to. That's what I meant.



Therefore, you consider SM2.0 all ok, because you were not affected.


In a wor, yes.  The form manager was left out, ant Phil Chee explained 
why.  He also posted here that the form manager is being reconsidered, 
which is a good thing.


Firefox has gone a long time without a form manager, and it is the 
second most popular browser out there. Many people, myself included, 
really never used it.  I didn't even notice it was gone until it was 
pointed out here.


Now that I see how people have used it, obviously it is lacking, and the 
prospect of it being restored is good. HOwever to cite it as a cause to 
leave SeaMonkey in beta is just not sensible.


By your logic, no software would ever reach a release point.

Lee


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Re: Lightning Printing Oddity.

2009-12-03 Thread rob


NoOp wrote:

On 12/03/2009 03:03 PM, Rob Steinmetz wrote:
...

Finally the Monthly Grid does not print Category Colors.



Works for me... perhaps you need to reboot again :-)



Are you sure? I get the Calender Color just not the Category Color.

Our web calender uses colors to identify categories. I was attempting to 
match them. They show up as a small blip in the head of the event 
surrounded by the Calendar Color.


Can you verify the other observations?
--
Rob

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WISHLIST: A way to make my own blacklist of sites to exclude while doing Google searches?

2009-12-03 Thread Devil's Advocate

I'm not sure if this could be built into Seamonkey or would have to be 
implemented by Google, but I'd like to have a way of clicking on a site 
and blacklisting it for exclusion when I do google searches, for keeping 
it out of the Google search results.

For example, bizrate, pricegrabber, sites outside the U.S., etc.

Getting a big muscle bound company like Google to implement it may take 
forever, but could it be done via an add-on for Seamonkey?


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Re: 2.0 ?


Ray_Net wrote:

In my opinion, the migration issues are MAJOR ISSUES ...


They are, but 1) they are really hard to get a grip on, as most people 
don't repeatedly test them, and being well-reproducible and 
well-reproduced is one of the major things to get well-reported specific 
problems fixed (I'll leave out for the moment that many of those 
problems are not well-reported bugs and not specificly enough described 
to even be able to try and reproduce them).
2) Once data is being migrated or otherwise moved to a new 2.0 profile, 
people are over those problems and never see them again - so while they 
are _very_ painful for the moment when they happen, the pain is 
completely gone once the data gets over to 2.0 in some way.


Of course, we all would be happy if we didn't see those problems in the 
first place, but the only scenario I can see that we go mostly pain-free 
there is if someone comes up and spends a whole lot of time on the 
migration code, and we at the same time have some very specific reports 
of where we go wrong with exact circumstances that lead to the failures. 
And, as unfortunate as that is, I really doubt that someone will come up 
that easily - unless you are that someone and are lurking around here 
waiting to become the next SeaMonkey superstar. If you are, I'm all for 
casting you in that role as migration superman!


We're trying to find solutions for some of the migration problems where 
we find out what exactly the problems are and where we know good ways to 
solve them. Still, please don't expect miracles from us. We're producing 
the best software we can with our relatively small team, but we know it 
might not be good enough for everybody - still we hope it is for most of 
you.


Robert Kaiser
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Re: 2.0 ?


Leonidas Jones wrote:

In a wor, yes. The form manager was left out, ant Phil Chee explained
why. He also posted here that the form manager is being reconsidered,
which is a good thing.


Just as a note, I think it's clear to most people here, but I want to 
clearly state that we're of course not bringing the old form manager 
back - what we are considering (and we talked about that from the first 
minute, releasing 2.0 at all was just higher priority) is to 
integrate/adopt/build a new form data management that allows viewing, 
searching and deleting stored form data, similar (perhaps basing on) 
that existing add-on out there (can't remember the name right now) - you 
probably know which one I'm talking about.


Also, we might look into possibilities to fill out multiple form fields 
with saved data at once, but we can't guarantee we find or adopt a good 
solution for that.


I think that's exactly what Philip explained, just wanted to make that 
clear to put into perspective what is being reconsidered means here.


And, this is of course stuff for a 2.1, which still has a few months 
until it comes out, and, also of course, help from you in the community 
is highly wanted on this!


Robert Kaiser
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Re: Lightning Printing Oddity.