Re: Crash in SM 2.0.1 when in mail
David Wilkinson wrote: JAS wrote: I just updated to SM2.0.1 from SM2 as per upgrade pop up. Had no problems at all with SM2. I am confused. I have not received any popup to upgrade from SM 2.0 to 2.0.1, and if I go to the SeaMonkey home page the download is still SM 2.0. What gives? This is on Windows 7, in case it matters. Your header is showing that you are posting using SM 1.1.18. I don't expect you will receive a message to upgrade. Go to the SeaMonkey project page and install the newest version, it should import all your profile stuff, and then you should get notifications of updates. HTH -- Seasons greeting, one and all and may next year be a better one! Daniel ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 mail issues
Bill Davidsen wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Jens Hatlak wrote: As a workaround, try deleting the OE Contacts address book. If OE did not work well, what would you say if microsoft tell us : As a workaround, try deleting the SM Contacts address book. ??? I would say OE should ignore SM and vice-versa. Well, AFAIK the OE AB is actually the same as the Windows Address Book (to be found in Start Menu/Programs/Accessories), that's why it was integrated. Don't expect me to check, though, I never needed it and won't ever. Greetings, Jens -- Jens Hatlak http://jens.hatlak.de/ SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker http://smtt.blogspot.com/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Change font/font size in Seamonkey2.0
Hi Stanimir,
my problem is the to large text in the seamonkey UI. And all previous
version (until 1.1.18)works fine and has adapt the underlaying system UI
of eCS/os2.
Now i tried to use the userchrome-example.css in profile/chrome modified
it and stored it under the name userchrome.css back. Did i something
wrong because several different attempts show no effect. Any tips?
Have a nice day, karl
Stanimir Stamenkov schrieb:
Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:11:01 +0100, /Karl/:
up to now i run SM1.1.18 under eCS2.0RC6a and tried to see how SM2.0
is usable for me. I am disappointed concerning windows display. The
font size used are to large to describe the buttons and all other
stuff including contents of some windows. My old window size is mostly
to small to keep the text. The used times roman font is also not my
favorite.
Where's the times roman font used - in Web content or in the SeaMonkey
UI?
My question is: how can i modify or add which statements to
about:config to adapt SM2.0 to look like SM1.1.18.
The Mozilla theme engine should pick the settings from the underlying
system UI, but I really don't know what's the state with OS/2 (isn't
eCS2.0 basically the same?) - whether there's an implementation for it.
I guess you could ask the folks over in the mozilla.dev.ports.os2 group.
In any case, you could customize the UI appearance through your
userChrome.css. You could experiment with the following style rules:
window {
font: 9px sans-serif !important;
}
dialog, wizard, page {
font: 9px sans-serif !important;
}
button, toolbar, .toolbar-holder, toolbarbutton, tree {
font: inherit !important;
}
statusbar, tooltip {
font: 9px sans-serif !important;
}
You may also try using system font keywords [1], like:
dialog, wizard, page {
font: message-box !important;
}
But I guess these should already be employed by the Classic SeaMonkey
theme and if you get only times roman then they are not accessible
from the underlying system UI through the theme engine, and the engine
is falling back to some default (times roman).
[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html#x11
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Re: Change font/font size in Seamonkey2.0
Fri, 25 Dec 2009 17:55:28 +0100, /Karl/:
my problem is the to large text in the seamonkey UI. And all previous
version (until 1.1.18)works fine and has adapt the underlaying system UI
of eCS/os2.
May be it is related to the source of your build (its configuration)
- do you build it on your own, or get it from somewhere? If you're
using a pre-built binary, do you get SeaMonkey 1.1.18 and SeaMonkey
2.0 from the same place? I'm cross-posting this to
mozilla.dev.ports.os2, just in case.
Now i tried to use the userchrome-example.css in profile/chrome modified
it and stored it under the name userchrome.css back. Did i something
wrong because several different attempts show no effect. Any tips?
Try putting just the following rule in your userChrome.css:
* {
font: 9pt bold sans-serif !important;
}
Does it make any difference? Note you need to restart SeaMonkey in
order changes to the userChrome.css to take effect.
Stanimir Stamenkov schrieb:
Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:11:01 +0100, /Karl/:
up to now i run SM1.1.18 under eCS2.0RC6a and tried to see how SM2.0
is usable for me. I am disappointed concerning windows display. The
font size used are to large to describe the buttons and all other
stuff including contents of some windows. My old window size is
mostly to small to keep the text. The used times roman font is also
not my favorite.
Where's the times roman font used - in Web content or in the
SeaMonkey UI?
My question is: how can i modify or add which statements to
about:config to adapt SM2.0 to look like SM1.1.18.
The Mozilla theme engine should pick the settings from the underlying
system UI, but I really don't know what's the state with OS/2 (isn't
eCS2.0 basically the same?) - whether there's an implementation for
it. I guess you could ask the folks over in the mozilla.dev.ports.os2
group.
In any case, you could customize the UI appearance through your
userChrome.css. You could experiment with the following style rules:
window {
font: 9px sans-serif !important;
}
dialog, wizard, page {
font: 9px sans-serif !important;
}
button, toolbar, .toolbar-holder, toolbarbutton, tree {
font: inherit !important;
}
statusbar, tooltip {
font: 9px sans-serif !important;
}
You may also try using system font keywords [1], like:
dialog, wizard, page {
font: message-box !important;
}
But I guess these should already be employed by the Classic SeaMonkey
theme and if you get only times roman then they are not accessible
from the underlying system UI through the theme engine, and the engine
is falling back to some default (times roman).
[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html#x11
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Re: SM2.01 seems to keep all my site visit history ...
On 12/25/2009 3:12 AM PT, Jens Hatlak typed: Instead I found it works fine if you just open the History window, select all (Ctrl+A), copy it (Ctrl+C), paste it into your favorite text editor and check the line count. It says something like 8200 here, with the oldest entry from 2009-10-04 (settings: 90/180/40,000). Awesome. That worked, but took forever to paste into Office 2000 SR-3's Word and came out wrong. :( I tried old Notepad, and that worked quickly. I had 5,854 lines. :) That's why I said *text editor*. Well, given how little Notepad is capable of doing even that might not qualify as a real text editor; I was actually thinking Notepad++/SciTE/UltraEdit/... here. I didn't think Notepad could handle the large amount of history. Funny that Word failed for this situation. Notepad is good enough for me. In Linux/UNIX, I just use Pico/Nano. ;) -- May 10,000 ants never invade your underwear drawer. --unknown /\___/\ / /\ /\ \Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net \ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netant ( ) or ant...@zimage.com Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufus n...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. A computer is only as smart or dumb as the user. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 mail issues
Farelf wrote: Jens Hatlak wrote: Bill Davidsen wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Jens Hatlak wrote: As a workaround, try deleting the OE Contacts address book. If OE did not work well, what would you say if microsoft tell us : As a workaround, try deleting the SM Contacts address book. ??? I would say OE should ignore SM and vice-versa. Well, AFAIK the OE AB is actually the same as the Windows Address Book (to be found in Start Menu/Programs/Accessories), that's why it was integrated. Don't expect me to check, though, I never needed it and won't ever. That is correct - and just running the accessory will establish a new (empty) address book which is enough to give SM a conniption fit all over again. Anyway SM must ignore all adress book except his own. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Happens every Year .
On 12/24/2009 09:49 PM, Philip Chee wrote: On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:52:02 -0800, NoOp wrote: On 12/24/2009 12:32 PM, question wrote: Merry Xmas to all In the USA there is a template for this: To My Democrat Friends: You are obviously not an American because the correct terminology is Democratic not Democrat. http://www.yourdictionary.com/democrat http://www.brainyquote.com/words/de/democrat152580.html :-) Anyway, happy holidays. :-) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
SM2: Problems With SeaMonkey Default Theme 1.0
1) In the navigator window Personal Toolbar, the rightmost bookmark item will occasionally overlap the dropdown menu icon depending on the overall window size. This appears to be unique to the bookmark list. The location edit box does not exhibit this behavior (it does not overlap the history dropdown menu). 2) The show/hide icons for the toolbars, address area, etc. at the left side of the window are not present in the mail, compose or navigator windows. The only way to control them is via the View:Show/Hide menu. The alternate built-in theme SeaMonkey Modern 1.0 does not exhibit these behaviors. Tests with 3rd party themes and extensions (eg PrefBar) do not have these problems either. Is there a way to correct these via userChrome settings or other means ? -- Art ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Printout Password Manager Entries?
Philip Chee wrote: On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 00:02:53 +0100, Martin Freitag wrote: Tom schrieb: I have entries in Password Manager since 1999 and many are no longer used and there are many duplicates. In order to prune out old entries, I'd like to be able to print out all of the entries. Is there any way to do this with some kind hex editor? Use Password Exporter Extension: http://code.google.com/p/passwordexporter/ It may be required to set extensions.CheckCompatibility to false in about:config to install. regards Or use this version: http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmisc.html#passwordexporter Phil Here's another version: http://the-edmeister.com/ . It works with Seamonkey 2. If you want one for Seamonkey 1.1.x, got to: http://edmullen.net/mozilla/moz_pw.php . ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Phillip Jones wrote: fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. A computer is only as smart or dumb as the user. ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: off line view of web sites
Philip Chee wrote: On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:58:39 +0800, Barry Edwin Gilmour wrote: n...@home wrote: »Q« wrote: Innews:kkqdnzy5qeknu6_wnz2dnuvz_gudn...@mozilla.org, Try Philip Chee's modified version at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modified.html#scrapbook. Note that you also need his xSidebar extension installed. Philip hangs out here, in case you run into any trouble. Thanks. I couldn't find the xsidebar extension, but when I downloaded It's on the same website!!! Just click on the Installation or Home link at the top of the page where you found the modified Scrapbook. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/seamonkey/downloads/latest/3284/addon-3284-latest.xpi What's wrong with: http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/installation.html Phil Thanks Phil. Happy New Year. Barry. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Happens every Year .
NoOp wrote: On 12/24/2009 09:49 PM, Philip Chee wrote: On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:52:02 -0800, NoOp wrote: On 12/24/2009 12:32 PM, question wrote: Merry Xmas to all In the USA there is a template for this: To My Democrat Friends: You are obviously not an American because the correct terminology is Democratic not Democrat. http://www.yourdictionary.com/democrat http://www.brainyquote.com/words/de/democrat152580.html :-) Anyway, happy holidays. :-) Democrat refer in this discussion to the person who votes Democratic party affiliation. While Republican refers either, the Party itself or the Party Affiliation You Can be a Liberal Democrat, or Conservative Democrat or Moderate Democrat. You Can be a Liberal Republican, a Moderate Republican, or Conservative Republican. Then there are Independents. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/25/2009 04:07 PM, Rufus wrote: ... ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. Nonsense. Please don't advocate this. If you'd like dumbed down look elsewhere. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? Actually, my 89 y.o. grandmother, her 60 y.0. live-in nurse, my 2nd grade nephew, and multiple relatives that haven't the simplest clue about browsers email clients use SeaMonkey daily. As do nearly one hundred of my commercial client installations. I don't usually say this, but I think it's time that you get a grip regarding SeaMonkey, or move on to something else that suits your requirements. Your continued bitching about SeaMonkey not meeing this, or that, or whatever, has quite frankly become quite irritating. In all honesty, I'm begining to pity the company that you work/consult for. What would you propose SeaMonkey be dumbed down to? Would you propose that about:config, prefs.js, and other user modifiable sections simply not become available? ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Happens every Year .
On 12/25/2009 04:37 PM, Phillip Jones wrote: NoOp wrote: On 12/24/2009 09:49 PM, Philip Chee wrote: On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:52:02 -0800, NoOp wrote: On 12/24/2009 12:32 PM, question wrote: Merry Xmas to all In the USA there is a template for this: To My Democrat Friends: You are obviously not an American because the correct terminology is Democratic not Democrat. http://www.yourdictionary.com/democrat http://www.brainyquote.com/words/de/democrat152580.html :-) Anyway, happy holidays. :-) Democrat refer in this discussion to the person who votes Democratic party affiliation. While Republican refers either, the Party itself or the Party Affiliation You Can be a Liberal Democrat, or Conservative Democrat or Moderate Democrat. You Can be a Liberal Republican, a Moderate Republican, or Conservative Republican. Then there are Independents. Then there are... never mind. You just enjoy debating, don't you? Leave it. It was a spur of the moment, lighthearted, post in response to the OP. Don't make it one of your I am right, you are wrong debates. OK? Seek treatment, do something, but don't make an issue out of a friggin Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays thread. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. A computer is only as smart or dumb as the user. ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? You'd have more trouble with the Grandma than the 3 or 4 year old. I worked for a school system system as a Audio-Visual Electronics Technician. when computers first came out (TI-88, Commodore 64 and 128, Apple II, Apple IIe, Winn 286, 386, Epson Equity, IBM PS1 and 2. I found that the Kids took to the computers like ducks to water. while the teachers were scared to even tun the computers on. Often a 5, 6, 7 year old was assigned to turn the computer on and get it running. one funny incident one of the librarian gave a program Floppy to a Child. the child came back a minute or two later saying teacher need her to come get the computer going. she went and fond that they had a TI-88 which used cartridges. and she had asked for floppy that to go in an Apple IIe and folded it up to put in the slot of the TI-88. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Happens every Year .
NoOp wrote: On 12/25/2009 04:37 PM, Phillip Jones wrote: NoOp wrote: On 12/24/2009 09:49 PM, Philip Chee wrote: On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:52:02 -0800, NoOp wrote: On 12/24/2009 12:32 PM, question wrote: Merry Xmas to all In the USA there is a template for this: To My Democrat Friends: You are obviously not an American because the correct terminology is Democratic not Democrat. http://www.yourdictionary.com/democrat http://www.brainyquote.com/words/de/democrat152580.html :-) Anyway, happy holidays. :-) Democrat refer in this discussion to the person who votes Democratic party affiliation. While Republican refers either, the Party itself or the Party Affiliation You Can be a Liberal Democrat, or Conservative Democrat or Moderate Democrat. You Can be a Liberal Republican, a Moderate Republican, or Conservative Republican. Then there are Independents. Then there are... never mind. You just enjoy debating, don't you? Leave it. It was a spur of the moment, lighthearted, post in response to the OP. Don't make it one of your I am right, you are wrong debates. OK? Seek treatment, do something, but don't make an issue out of a friggin Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays thread. Wasn't intended to be a debate. Just an explanation. Oh I Left out a another category Libertarian. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/25/2009 04:39 PM, NoOp wrote: On 12/25/2009 04:07 PM, Rufus wrote: ... ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. Nonsense. Please don't advocate this. If you'd like dumbed down look elsewhere. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? Actually, my 89 y.o. grandmother, her 60 y.0. live-in nurse, my 2nd Apologies; should be 'my 89 y.o. mother mother-in-law'. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
Interviewed by CNN on 24/12/2009 03:29, Rufus told the world: SM 1.1.18 does what I need, and the way I need it done. And I've been looking over alternatives left and right - Firefox...nogo. Camino, Stainless, Chrome, and Safari all look like they have common roots. Almost, but not quite. Camino is based on Gecko, the same as Firefox, Seamonkey and Flock. All the others you mentioned are Webkit-based, and therefore will render similarly (except for Javascript, because they use different engines for that). -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... BOFH excuse #450: Terrorists crashed an airplane into the server room, have to remove /bin/laden. (rm -rf /bin/laden) * TagZilla 0.0661 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org on Seamonkey 2.0 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
NoOp wrote: On 12/25/2009 04:07 PM, Rufus wrote: ... ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. Nonsense. Please don't advocate this. If you'd like dumbed down look elsewhere. ...if you look elsewhere, you'll very likely be surprised what you find. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? Actually, my 89 y.o. grandmother, her 60 y.0. live-in nurse, my 2nd grade nephew, and multiple relatives that haven't the simplest clue about browsers email clients use SeaMonkey daily. As do nearly one hundred of my commercial client installations. And do they manipulate about:config, or do any of the more advanced workarounds that you suggest for us power users? All I'm saying is that an average user should not have to resort to such in order to solve problems or implement preferences - and that the basic program should be informative and flexible enough that they shouldn't have to. I don't usually say this, but I think it's time that you get a grip regarding SeaMonkey, or move on to something else that suits your requirements. Your continued bitching about SeaMonkey not meeing this, or that, or whatever, has quite frankly become quite irritating. In all honesty, I'm begining to pity the company that you work/consult for. ...remember that next time you travel by air...from engines to ATC. A lot of the tech pubs written in support of those operations are standardized to a 6th to 8th grade user level. What would you propose SeaMonkey be dumbed down to? Would you propose that about:config, prefs.js, and other user modifiable sections simply not become available? I would propose that the basic, non-extended, as delivered product be coded to suit the widest possible user base, so that the widest number of users can use it - easily. As delivered, it is dumbed down by default, and I seriously doubt that many of your relatives go editing component files of the app on their own...at least, not without consulting you. But being as flexible and extensible as it is through add-ons, it can also be smartened up to suit just about any user's needs - and that's one of it's strongest points, IMO. I personally don't use any add-ons, because the basic app has always served to do what I care to do. As far as meeting my needs and preferences - SM 1.1.18 did that, and continues to do so...so I'll likely stick with it, and revert my upgrades until the 2.x series gains more maturity. Yeah, it's got a couple flaws, but nothing as annoying to me as the latest releases...and it's got a larger built in user feature set - which is really the crux of what I like about it. So I'll continue to use 1.1.18 and accept what comes with that. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Phillip Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. A computer is only as smart or dumb as the user. ...your interface should be dumbed down to accommodate the dumbest user that you are targeting your product to, or that you expect would possibly want to try your product. Simpler is better, useful instructive information provided is always even better. What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? You'd have more trouble with the Grandma than the 3 or 4 year old. I worked for a school system system as a Audio-Visual Electronics Technician. when computers first came out (TI-88, Commodore 64 and 128, Apple II, Apple IIe, Winn 286, 386, Epson Equity, IBM PS1 and 2. I found that the Kids took to the computers like ducks to water. while the teachers were scared to even tun the computers on. Often a 5, 6, 7 year old was assigned to turn the computer on and get it running. one funny incident one of the librarian gave a program Floppy to a Child. the child came back a minute or two later saying teacher need her to come get the computer going. she went and fond that they had a TI-88 which used cartridges. and she had asked for floppy that to go in an Apple IIe and folded it up to put in the slot of the TI-88. I can totally agree with you...and that's part my the point about addressing the whole as opposed to the few. We're locked in a very similar debate at work right now, the basis of which boils down to how younger aviators train, vs what older aviators are used to seeing on their displays. Very heated generationally based discussion/argument that's gone on for a year now, and likely to go on for another year...not to mention that the bottom line is that the initial implementation really could end up risking someone's life, in the opinion of some crew members. So what do you do? We're at least building in the option to turn this new feature off, and revert to the previous (simpler) display. Yeah - the day may come long after I'm gone when the new display will be the standard, but that's NOT today. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
MCBastos wrote: Interviewed by CNN on 24/12/2009 03:29, Rufus told the world: SM 1.1.18 does what I need, and the way I need it done. And I've been looking over alternatives left and right - Firefox...nogo. Camino, Stainless, Chrome, and Safari all look like they have common roots. Almost, but not quite. Camino is based on Gecko, the same as Firefox, Seamonkey and Flock. All the others you mentioned are Webkit-based, and therefore will render similarly (except for Javascript, because they use different engines for that). Granted. But that's all under the hood...I'm talking strictly as a user, and to me as a user they all appear very similar. And understandable because they share common roots, but I also find it interesting that they just plain look so much alike. I'm going to have to really dig to find out what one may or may not do that another doesn't do - generally I start by comparing user Preference panels and options. When I can find an option set I like, that's usually the one for me. Which was what drew me to Netscape, Mozilla Suite, and then Seamonkey in the first place, has kept me using it, and encouraging others to use it. I think the biggest difference between me and most of the users I recommend SM to is that they have no need for a newsreader - I'm becoming more an more surprised that most of them have never even heard of usenet - if you can't get there with a URL, they're stumped...and I'm particularly surprised because a lot of these guys are professional coder-geeks and PhDs. But to each their own - I have a ton of hobbies, and I really like usenet forums for exchanging information in support of my hobbies...so I'm a SM fan mostly because of that. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Phillip Jones wrote: fel wrote: On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:16:19 -0800, Rufusn...@home.com in mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote: I understand the risks involved with fooling around with about:config if one doesn't know what one is doing...workarounds are fine for experienced users, but not for the masses. Absolutely. Us masses just make our changes directly in prefs.js. But seriously, I wonder just how dumbed down you think that a computer should be. A computer is only as smart or dumb as the user. No truer words were ever spoken. what we used to call GIGO. :) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus skriver: Then there was the whole of the new default more Mac-like interface...I was only able to tolerate that about four days, then I replaced it with the other Modern one. And I'm a Mac user...I do have to say, the folks on Thunderbird did a way better job making a Mac-like Mac presentation - kudos there. I guess it's obvious, but you have seriously failed to communicate what you actually thought was so wrong with the theme changes. /Stefan ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM2: Problems With SeaMonkey Default Theme 1.0
art skriver:
1) In the navigator window Personal Toolbar, the rightmost bookmark item
will occasionally overlap the dropdown menu icon depending on the
overall window size. This appears to be unique to the bookmark list. The
location edit box does not exhibit this behavior (it does not overlap
the history dropdown menu).
If I'm not mistaken, there is a bug filed for this. IIRC it's an old
problem - I think 1.1.x also had this issue.
2) The show/hide icons for the toolbars, address area, etc. at the left
side of the window are not present in the mail, compose or navigator
windows. The only way to control them is via the View:Show/Hide menu.
Oh, you mean the grippies?
toolbargrippy {
display: -moz-box !important;
} in userChrome.css should get them back.
Beware that it doesn't look that nice, though ;-)
/Stefan
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Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Stefan wrote: Rufus skriver: Then there was the whole of the new default more Mac-like interface...I was only able to tolerate that about four days, then I replaced it with the other Modern one. And I'm a Mac user...I do have to say, the folks on Thunderbird did a way better job making a Mac-like Mac presentation - kudos there. I guess it's obvious, but you have seriously failed to communicate what you actually thought was so wrong with the theme changes. /Stefan I did in detail, but in another thread...so I saw no need to repeat that. I think the thread had SM 2.0 - A Mac User's Observations in the title. But briefly, as I recall everyone had some common complaints with it - the most common one being it's lack of grippies; and the best solution I recall for that was to make the entire bar area a grippie for snap open/close of the sidebar and such. That was a real convenience deal-breaker for me using a laptop, and probably the single biggest reason I switched to the other Theme. Another was that certain areas of the navigation bar are not intuitively available to right-click - some of the larger areas that seem like they should respond to a right-click don't respond. And I think described a number of other issues which gave rise to particular problems for a laptop user...if you want, I can look back and re-post here - but I've been saving all of my observations for drafting formal bug reports. One of the big reasons I haven't written formal bug reports (yet - I have been quoted in the too-small buttons report thread) is that I've become pretty confident that they won't be responded to as a result of all the single-ended venom I've read over the too-small buttons. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
On 12/25/2009 05:09 PM, Rufus wrote: NoOp wrote: ... What if you grandmother would like to use SM because you recommended it? Or your 3rd grade aged nephew? Actually, my 89 y.o. grandmother, her 60 y.0. live-in nurse, my 2nd grade nephew, and multiple relatives that haven't the simplest clue about browsers email clients use SeaMonkey daily. As do nearly one hundred of my commercial client installations. And do they manipulate about:config, or do any of the more advanced workarounds that you suggest for us power users? Yes. I support them remotely, and generally they can follow instructions pretty well. All I'm saying is that an average user should not have to resort to such in order to solve problems or implement preferences - and that the basic program should be informative and flexible enough that they shouldn't have to. So go find another program that will suit your needs. I don't usually say this, but I think it's time that you get a grip regarding SeaMonkey, or move on to something else that suits your requirements. Your continued bitching about SeaMonkey not meeing this, or that, or whatever, has quite frankly become quite irritating. In all honesty, I'm begining to pity the company that you work/consult for. ...remember that next time you travel by air...from engines to ATC. A lot of the tech pubs written in support of those operations are standardized to a 6th to 8th grade user level. Well, let's see... I probably started working on US government aircraft well before you were born - does circa 1971 work for you?. I worked for McDonnell Douglas for many years. I've been reading and working with (including editing) tech manuals (US covernment and civilian) for over 30 years. Most of the time that I've ended up editing such manuals was due to some dit that decided that they should have been written at a 6th to 8th grade user level I then needed to edit them so that someone with a reasonable reading comprehension could actually understand them. What would you propose SeaMonkey be dumbed down to? Would you propose that about:config, prefs.js, and other user modifiable sections simply not become available? I would propose that the basic, non-extended, as delivered product be coded to suit the widest possible user base, so that the widest number of users can use it - easily. As delivered, it is dumbed down by default, and I seriously doubt that many of your relatives go editing component files of the app on their own...at least, not without consulting you. I would propose that you either: 1) find another product, or 2) write your own. For if SeaMonkey ever becomes what you desire I will certainly do #1 above. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM2: Problems With SeaMonkey Default Theme 1.0
Stefan wrote:
art skriver:
1) In the navigator window Personal Toolbar, the rightmost bookmark item
will occasionally overlap the dropdown menu icon depending on the
overall window size. This appears to be unique to the bookmark list. The
location edit box does not exhibit this behavior (it does not overlap
the history dropdown menu).
If I'm not mistaken, there is a bug filed for this. IIRC it's an old
problem - I think 1.1.x also had this issue.
2) The show/hide icons for the toolbars, address area, etc. at the left
side of the window are not present in the mail, compose or navigator
windows. The only way to control them is via the View:Show/Hide menu.
Oh, you mean the grippies?
toolbargrippy {
display: -moz-box !important;
} in userChrome.css should get them back.
Beware that it doesn't look that nice, though ;-)
/Stefan
Use any theme other than the default theme and you get grippies. I've
Lcarstrek
Orbit 3+1 which I am currently using
SkyPilot that I can use but interferes with QuoteColors,
SeaMonkey Modern,
Venerable Modern,
Walnut which has some missing or generic icons,
and then SeaMonkey Default.
Default is the only without the grippies.
Get with the program please. Forget about Apple suggestion for user
interface. They are not interested in the amount of space taken to
create the grippies and the fly up fly down ,and fly in/out window
action. Heck even the Mac Addressbook and, and Kodak Easy Share have fly
out side windows. and iPhoto has some fly-down windows with a grippy bar
of its own.
--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it
http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org
mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com
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Re: Happens every Year .
On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 19:37:06 -0500, Phillip Jones wrote: Democrat refer in this discussion to the person who votes Democratic party affiliation. While Republican refers either, the Party itself or the Party Affiliation You Can be a Liberal Democrat, or Conservative Democrat or Moderate Democrat. You Can be a Liberal Republican, a Moderate Republican, or Conservative Republican. Then there are Independents. You forgot the Libertarians. Phil -- Philip Chee phi...@aleytys.pc.my, philip.c...@gmail.com http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief, oh Night, and so be good for us to pass. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
