Re: new 2.3 - Firefox updates too often
Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: Rufus wrote: *This* surprises the crap out of me though, considering some of what I've read here elsewhere - http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/ ...and you get it via the Apple App Store. Off topic for this NG, *but* Firefox Home is *not* Firefox for iPhone, it is basically Weave/Firefox Sync for the iPhone. Letting you access bookmarks, etc. with the iPhone browser you have, (which is webkit only, and closer to truth Safari only) Yeah, that's what I gather...I just don't get how it does it. I suppose it's some sort of bridge - Atomic can install a scrip that will cross-open a URL in Safari (and vice-versa, I think)...but I can't really think of a reason I'd want to do that. This seems like it could be handy, though. I don't like Atomic's cloud-based bookmark synch even though I do prefer Atomic's feature set over iOS Safari. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: Well, the mass of innovation-resistant people posting in those forums is at least one of the reasons why I moved away my focus from SeaMonkey and work on making Firefox more stable (in terms of not crashing) now. Understood, Robert. I can quite see that from the perspective of a developer, pushing the frontiers of science is a far more appealing prospect than a daily grind of bug-fixing and papering over the cracks. Unfortunately, from a user perspective, major change is rarely welcome, whilst increased security and incremental bug fixes are universally appreciated. Philip Taylor I agree with you, they prefer constructing new gadgets than repairing the stuff they have badly constructed !!! (sometimes they kill what was working perfectly before) As usual some SM geeks will destroy our point of vue ...for the GLORY of SM - Which they are convinced that SM is the BEST product ever constructed. And arguing that because the developers are volonters ... they may choice what they want ... and not what the end-user expect. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Bill Davidsen wrote: MCBastos wrote: Interviewed by CNN on 05/08/2011 11:17, Bill Davidsen told the world: Some commercial users have complained that they can't do a QA cycle that often, and according to the reports were told that Firefox is not suitable for business use. I can dig out the link for anyone who hasn't learned to use a search engine, I saw it in either networkworld.com or slashdot. This guy at Ars Technica had a different spin on the issue: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/06/firefox-update-policy-the-enterprise-is-wrong-not-mozilla.ars/ Yes, he certainly makes the point that if you aren't the one paying for testing, or for the cost of retraining users, or lost productivity if there is a bug and something required stops working. And since there are no bugfix releases if there are bugs they will never be fixed, you just have to live with the bug for six weeks and then upgrade again. I live with certains bugs for 7 years . ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards
Don wrote: Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward. It has many changes with no real improvement. This new version makes some things take more time, like simply saving a bookmark. Now there is no way to designate a new bookmark folder. Many other problems. For one thing there is no documentation for the new changes. example: what the heck are unsorted bookmarks? Also when you open the bookmark header, what is the order of all the bookmarks below the recent tags? Is there any simple way to go back to an earlier version and still keep my bookmarks, settings, emails etc.? Also how do I write the people who wrote this version to complain. Not just to report a bug. (this version IS a bug.) No. You must accept the developers dreams ... they are not paid, so they can do what they want. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 21:47:15 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: Robert Kaiser wrote: Well, the mass of innovation-resistant people posting in those forums is at least one of the reasons why I moved away my focus from SeaMonkey and work on making Firefox more stable (in terms of not crashing) now. Understood, Robert. I can quite see that from the perspective of a developer, pushing the frontiers of science is a far more appealing prospect than a daily grind of bug-fixing and papering over the cracks. Unfortunately, from a user perspective, major change is rarely welcome, whilst increased security and incremental bug fixes are universally appreciated. Do you guys clearly understand the SeaMonkey developers don't get paid for their work on SeaMonkey? This guy understands it perfectly, and is very grateful to those volunteers for their work and efforts on what has, until recently, been a superb suite of software that has formed a central part of his everyday working regime. His concern is that this suite is now evolving in a way and a direction that will make it ever less usable. Once again - it is all volunteer effort! Do you understand the maintenance of SeaMonkey involves various compromises to fit with the ever evolving Mozilla platform? That may well be the reality of the situation, in which case we should be neither surprised nor disappointed to realise that what Seamonkey users want will be given far less weight than what Mozilla and the Firefox team want. Which does not make it any less of a shame. If you want completely feature frozen product - just use whatever version you've been satisfied with at some point in time. However you understand you can't use just that version because of necessary security fixes appearing in subsequent releases, or just because the browser or another component becomes too outdated to support required latest technologies. Note, the SeaMonkey developers don't develop these latest technologies and they can't provide security fixes to the platform on their own - we (the SeaMonkey users) are all dependent on the Mozilla platform (the development of which is mainly driven by the Firefox development). You can either continue to bitch, Putting a reasoned argument on behalf of those who prefer stability and security to non-essential change is not bitching; it is offering a constructive criticism that should be interpreted as such. or get your hands dirty by keeping track of how the Mozilla platform evolves, then get some technical knowledge to understand how this affects SeaMonkey, and then probably come up with some constructive comments... or code patches you're ready to maintain. Like most Seamonkey users, I prefer to leave code changes to those who know what they are doing; that should not make my input, as a Seamonkey user since day-1, any less valued. And I have already made some constructive comments, such as o Why are tabs now being forced on Seamonkey users ? o Why are Seamonkey users now restricted to three levels of zoom, compared to eight in earlier versions ? and o What is the expected/intended behaviour of the DOM inspector if a wildcard is used as the leading element of a value field in the Find dialogue ? , the latter two of which have elicited zero response. And of course, if you could come up with a successful business model which would fund the development of SeaMonkey in a direction you want - you're welcome to make it true. If I could come up with a successful business model, I wouldn't be a Seamonkey user; I would be the owner, president and CEO of a LSE-listed company, the profits from which would be funding my retirement. Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards
Don a écrit : Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward. It has many changes with no real improvement. This new version makes some things take more time, like simply saving a bookmark. Now there is no way to designate a new bookmark folder. Many other problems. For one thing there is no documentation for the new changes. example: what the heck are unsorted bookmarks? Also when you open the bookmark header, what is the order of all the bookmarks below the recent tags? Is there any simple way to go back to an earlier version and still keep my bookmarks, settings, emails etc.? Also how do I write the people who wrote this version to complain. Not just to report a bug. (this version IS a bug.) Thanks for any help. Don Hello You can create a new folder in your bookmark list : in frensh (translate in english) the way is : marque-pages (bookmarks)-organiser les marque-pages (organise the bookmarks???)-fichier(file)-nouveau dossier(new folder)- name this new folder Thats all Sinserly Bertrand ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: WLS wrote: Ray_Net wrote: WLS wrote: Ray_Net wrote: MCBastos wrote: Interviewed by CNN on 05/08/2011 11:17, Bill Davidsen told the world: Some commercial users have complained that they can't do a QA cycle that often, and according to the reports were told that Firefox is not suitable for business use. I can dig out the link for anyone who hasn't learned to use a search engine, I saw it in either networkworld.com or slashdot. This guy at Ars Technica had a different spin on the issue: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/06/firefox-update-policy-the-enterprise-is-wrong-not-mozilla.ars/ Where we can read: six week cycle is the goal. Therefore the end-user MUST install a new version each six weeks. He have other things to do This is why he will decide: I will stay on my version for at least one year ... i am not part of an SM testing group. You are a part of any browser testing group whether you want to be or not. Even the most stable releases have bugs, and new security holes are often found that need to be fixed. Some light reading for you if you so choose. http://blog.mozilla.com/channels/2011/07/18/every-six-weeks/ and since Firefox, Thunderbird and SeaMonkey are all Gecko based, this was an interesting read for me. At the end of the article, i read: Comments are closed. http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2011/08/02/extending-our-reach-lets-talk-gecko/ That was written by Mitchell Baker the Chair of the Mozilla Foundation. I still want a crank for my auto ignition, but I had to move on, to that danged remote starter thingy, I agree to start for the future but people need less steps to go to the future ... not a change every six weeks. If you want to miss out on 3D sound visualizers with WebGL and HTML5 Audio, that is your choice. I want all the latest new web innovations, whether I use them or not. I'd post a link to the demo, but it currently works in Firefox only. Come on SM developers get caught up! :) Huh, unless the web app is specifically targetting Firefox and ignoring everyone else, a similar-Gecko-Version SeaMonkey should work for those pure-web demo's. Can you provide a link to what is not working in SeaMonkey that Works in Firefox on a web demo level. ESPECIALLY if it is hosted by mozilla. Thanks, Just tested it in SeaMonkey and it works. Needing a Firefox browser was the author's words not mine. Sorry, I should have checked. Stating you needed a modern Gecko based browser may have been better. Here is the link if anyone wants to view the demo. http://robhawkes.github.com/webgl-html5-audio-visualiser/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 10:37:53 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: Putting a reasoned argument on behalf of those who prefer stability and security to non-essential change is not bitching; it is offering a constructive criticism that should be interpreted as such. The problem with the so called constructive criticism I see widespread in this group, is it doesn't help keeping the SeaMonkey product alive, most importantly, and then usable, both related to the Mozilla platform dependency remark I've given previously. I agree that some of the critiques have lacked focus; but in general, I believe that those who are most vocal in criticising the current changes in Seamonkey development and release are also amongst those who are most deeply concerned that Seamonkey /should/ remain alive and usable : they are, in the main, people who (for better or worse) have come to depend on Seamonkey, and who are genuinely afraid that recent changes do not bode well for the future. What we need (IMHO) is a genuine debate between users and developers; a little less sniping, and a better appreciation by each side of the wishes of, and constraints on, the other side, would go a long way towards ensuring a viable future for this most valuable suite of software. Philip Taylor Philip, perhaps it might help to consider the SeaMonkey developers not as a group of developers who are trying to produce a product that will sweep all before them, but as a group of *USERS* who are trying to produce a product that will do what *they* want, and you and I get to use the result of their efforts for free. If they do the development you/I want, great. If not, you/I may need to find some other solution! -- Daniel ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
WLS wrote: Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: WLS wrote: Ray_Net wrote: WLS wrote: Ray_Net wrote: MCBastos wrote: Interviewed by CNN on 05/08/2011 11:17, Bill Davidsen told the world: Some commercial users have complained that they can't do a QA cycle that often, and according to the reports were told that Firefox is not suitable for business use. I can dig out the link for anyone who hasn't learned to use a search engine, I saw it in either networkworld.com or slashdot. This guy at Ars Technica had a different spin on the issue: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/06/firefox-update-policy-the-enterprise-is-wrong-not-mozilla.ars/ Where we can read: six week cycle is the goal. Therefore the end-user MUST install a new version each six weeks. He have other things to do This is why he will decide: I will stay on my version for at least one year ... i am not part of an SM testing group. You are a part of any browser testing group whether you want to be or not. Even the most stable releases have bugs, and new security holes are often found that need to be fixed. Some light reading for you if you so choose. http://blog.mozilla.com/channels/2011/07/18/every-six-weeks/ and since Firefox, Thunderbird and SeaMonkey are all Gecko based, this was an interesting read for me. At the end of the article, i read: Comments are closed. http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2011/08/02/extending-our-reach-lets-talk-gecko/ That was written by Mitchell Baker the Chair of the Mozilla Foundation. I still want a crank for my auto ignition, but I had to move on, to that danged remote starter thingy, I agree to start for the future but people need less steps to go to the future ... not a change every six weeks. If you want to miss out on 3D sound visualizers with WebGL and HTML5 Audio, that is your choice. I want all the latest new web innovations, whether I use them or not. I'd post a link to the demo, but it currently works in Firefox only. Come on SM developers get caught up! :) Huh, unless the web app is specifically targetting Firefox and ignoring everyone else, a similar-Gecko-Version SeaMonkey should work for those pure-web demo's. Can you provide a link to what is not working in SeaMonkey that Works in Firefox on a web demo level. ESPECIALLY if it is hosted by mozilla. Thanks, Just tested it in SeaMonkey and it works. Needing a Firefox browser was the author's words not mine. Sorry, I should have checked. Stating you needed a modern Gecko based browser may have been better. Here is the link if anyone wants to view the demo. http://robhawkes.github.com/webgl-html5-audio-visualiser/ Clicking on the link got me Jazz sounding music with a blank screen and Done SeaMonkey 2.2 on Mandriva Linux 2009.0 on a HP 6730b laptop. -- Daniel ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Sun, 07 Aug 2011 12:12:48 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: I agree that some of the critiques have lacked focus; but in general, I believe that those who are most vocal in criticising the current changes in Seamonkey development and release are also amongst those who are most deeply concerned that Seamonkey /should/ remain alive and usable : they are, in the main, people who (for better or worse) have come to depend on Seamonkey, and who are genuinely afraid that recent changes do not bode well for the future. The only thing I'm genuinely afraid of is that the last few people who care about, and have enough knowledge to develop and maintain SeaMonkey might loose interest because of so much unreasonable criticism going on. From my point of view every change to the SeaMonkey 2+ versions is well justified and reflects the capabilities of the SeaMonkey team. This is what I've been trying to explain previously, and further below. What we need (IMHO) is a genuine debate between users and developers; a little less sniping, and a better appreciation by each side of the wishes of, and constraints on, the other side, would go a long way towards ensuring a viable future for this most valuable suite of software. Your reply leads me to think you don't really understand the status quo, although you state so. Most of the features people vocally criticize the SeaMonkey developers about are not written by the SeaMonkey devs themselves, but by the core Mozilla platform team. The SeaMonkey devs are far too few in order to provide maintenance of old code, they have not really written, or to implement it anew, on top of the evolving Mozilla platform. The SeaMonkey devs try their best to preserve much of the original Mozilla Suite features perceived as most important to people, but it is not always possible because of major core changes introduced by the platform. I guess this is something vocally criticizing people in here can't really understand, being not interested in how the Mozilla platform evolves, and then how it affects the SeaMonkey project, which apart from some hardware infrastructure is not sponsored by the Mozilla organization in any way (as far as I'm aware). And finally, as Robert Kaiser have already pointed out, innovation-resistance won't make SeaMonkey any better. -- Stanimir ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Daniel wrote: Philip, perhaps it might help to consider the SeaMonkey developers not as a group of developers who are trying to produce a product that will sweep all before them, but as a group of *USERS* who are trying to produce a product that will do what *they* want, and you and I get to use the result of their efforts for free. Yes, I agree. That is certainly a valid alternative perspective. ** Phil. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: The only thing I'm genuinely afraid of is that the last few people who care about, and have enough knowledge to develop and maintain SeaMonkey might lose interest because of so much unreasonable criticism going on. From my point of view every change to the SeaMonkey 2+ versions is well justified and reflects the capabilities of the SeaMonkey team. This is what I've been trying to explain previously, and further below. Your reply leads me to think you don't really understand the status quo, although you state so. Most of the features people vocally criticize the SeaMonkey developers about are not written by the SeaMonkey devs themselves, but by the core Mozilla platform team. The SeaMonkey devs are far too few in order to provide maintenance of old code, they have not really written, or to implement it anew, on top of the evolving Mozilla platform. You are probably almost certainly correct. The problem is, the release notes do not provide any of this background -- we the users have no way of knowing which features were deliberately introduced by the Seamonkey team, which were carried over from Firefox/Gecko because they appeared to the Seamonkey team to be a good idea, and which were carried over because although the Seamonkey team viewed them as deleterious, they lacked the resources to replace them with something better (or to omit them completely). The SeaMonkey devs try their best to preserve much of the original Mozilla Suite features perceived as most important to people, but it is not always possible because of major core changes introduced by the platform. I guess this is something vocally criticizing people in here can't really understand, being not interested in how the Mozilla platform evolves, and then how it affects the SeaMonkey project, which apart from some hardware infrastructure is not sponsored by the Mozilla organization in any way (as far as I'm aware). Please see above. And finally, as Robert Kaiser have already pointed out, innovation-resistance won't make SeaMonkey any better. No, but it may help to make it less worse. Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: What we need (IMHO) is a genuine debate between users and developers; a little less sniping, and a better appreciation by each side of the wishes of, and constraints on, the other side, would go a long way towards ensuring a viable future for this most valuable suite of software. What you have to realize is that it is not a debate that will foster development, bug fixing, and growth of SeaMonkey; Nor is it a us vs them situation, though it seems like you are trying to make it so. The developers are also users, some users are also testers. It is impossible to satisfy everyone 100% of the time, even if we had 2 thousand paid developers working on SeaMonkey 72 hours a week each. Likewise with the same manpower it would be impossible to squish every bug, or control every action in Core Gecko. [With that manpower it would be *easier* to choose to provide a longer-lived security release, but thats a different story] We all want the same thing, SeaMonkey to Succeed! Remember that, and remember that we do read and care about your [regular users] thoughts. Sometimes tradeoffs are necessary, sometimes new features are necessary. Sometimes features you (and us) have come to love about the Suite are basically killed off in Core Gecko and we are unable to rectify those deficiencies easily. [Other times we can rectify them just fine, -- Preferences Manager is one of those cases where we were able to keep the User Interface we have come to love] -- ~Justin Wood (Callek), SeaMonkey Council Member ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 12:12:48 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: I agree that some of the critiques have lacked focus; but in general, I believe that those who are most vocal in criticising the current changes in Seamonkey development and release are also amongst those who are most deeply concerned that Seamonkey /should/ remain alive and usable : they are, in the main, people who (for better or worse) have come to depend on Seamonkey, and who are genuinely afraid that recent changes do not bode well for the future. The only thing I'm genuinely afraid of is that the last few people who care about, and have enough knowledge to develop and maintain SeaMonkey might loose interest because of so much unreasonable criticism going on. From my point of view every change to the SeaMonkey 2+ versions is well justified and reflects the capabilities of the SeaMonkey team. This is what I've been trying to explain previously, and further below. To more eloquently say the same. That loose interest is a real problem. And sometimes even I do feel that pressure reading these groups. The term for it is Stop Energy: * http://bcsaller.blogspot.com/2005/11/stop-energy.html (or do more googling/researching yourself on the concept) -- ~Justin Wood (Callek), SeaMonkey Council Member ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards
Ray_Net wrote: Don wrote: Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward. [...] Is there any simple way to go back to an earlier version and still keep my bookmarks, settings, emails etc.? Also how do I write the people who wrote this version to complain. Not just to report a bug. (this version IS a bug.) No. You must accept the developers dreams ... they are not paid, so they can do what they want. A commonly-stated incorrect-ism. While the developers may not receive any remuneration for what they do, they ARE employed. And as such, that 'team' must follow the direction(s) set down by those in charge, who (presumably) have a direction they have planned to follow, to attain whatever mutual goals have been established. All moving vehicles or groups need a goal and a direction. Do/go where they want? I don't think so... The SM team is not a reincantation of the Keystone Kops. keith whaley ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: [snip] We all want the same thing, SeaMonkey to Succeed! Remember that, and remember that we do read and care about your [regular users] thoughts. Sometimes tradeoffs are necessary, sometimes new features are necessary. Sometimes features you (and us) have come to love about the Suite are basically killed off in Core Gecko and we are unable to rectify those deficiencies easily. OK, understood. But would it not help to prevent unjustified criticism if the rationale for each change were documented in the release notes ? All that would be needed would be to classify each change into one of three categories : A) Intentional : We, the Seamonkey Development Team, thought that this was something that most Seamonkey users would want and appreciate. We either engineered it ourselves or took a conscious decision to carry it over from the Gecko/Firefox projects. B) Collateral fallout : This was forced on us by a change in the Gecko engine and/or Firefox. We are by no means convinced that this is necessarily for the better, but it is something with which we will have to live for now. We will attempt to address it if we receive lots of negative feedback about this feature. C) Fait accompli. This is so deeply embedded in Gecko and/or Firefox that we can see no way to avoid it, either now or in the future. Sorry, chaps, but that's the way the biscuit crumbles. Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3 - Firefox updates too often
Rufus wrote: PhillipJones wrote: Rufus wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: PhillipJones schrieb: The original post meant SeaMonkey. It didn't. FF is up to 5.6.7.8 or whatever. SM increments their major updates by .1's 2.0, 2.1, 2.2., 2.3, 2.4 and so on. That is just a different numbering system, the rate and size of updates is very similar. Version numbers in software are just like coordinate systems in physics: But necessarily and irrelevant. They're necessary as a reference system but it's completely irrelevant and arbitrary how you set them. Robert Kaiser ...somebody clue me in on what this is all about? I guess this time I'm on the side of the developers...the new release schedule is something I can completely understand for once...and it certainly doesn't bother me. The numbers are just a reference and don't mean much in and of themselves, as stated. I get it. What's the problem? Just because releases come fast and furious doesn't mean that a user has to update on anyone's schedule but their own. They may need to pay more attention to the release notes and be more aware of what they're missing/getting, but in the end they are still in charge of administering their own machines...right? the OP of this thread obviously meant SM 2.3 and mistakenly wrote FF. And some of the people that show know better are demanding the thread be moved to FF. FF 2.3 has a beard as long as mine. Its obvious it was meant for SeaMonkey. I agree SM and (for that matter FF) is being updated too often. they release a new version even before they, even fix bugs from the previous versions. So they end up piling on bug after Bug. The proper thing to do is fix the bugs in current release get it stable then add new features and fix bugs from the new feature and get that stable. The way we are going, we will get a reputation Like Intuit. when they come out with a new release the don't fix bugs from previous release. So they pile new bugs on top. Quicken and Quickbooks are almost unusable. Because the put features over fixing bugs. I guess I don't really have an issue with the frequency of updates, and I don't use Quicken or Quickbooks, but I do/could have an issue with quality control...in either case I just need to be a bit more vigilant and pay attention to the release notes and user commentary, as I've said. The new release schedule and numbering don't bother me one bit other than that. *This* surprises the crap out of me though, considering some of what I've read here elsewhere - http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/ ...and you get it via the Apple App Store. This is something they have been working on for years. and finally put out. Shame they haven't come out with one for BlackBerry. iPhone Andriod, and BlackBerry (RIM) are the three major players. MS bringing up the rear. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: You are probably almost certainly correct. The problem is, the release notes do not provide any of this background -- we the users have no way of knowing which features were deliberately introduced by the Seamonkey team, which were carried over from Firefox/Gecko because they appeared to the Seamonkey team to be a good idea, and which were carried over because although the Seamonkey team viewed them as deleterious, they lacked the resources to replace them with something better (or to omit them completely). In my opinion the release notes are not the place to go into ANY diatribe about why a feature is there, was removed, or changed. It is there to describe WHAT changed, and in some cases (known issues) how to avoid some common problems/issues. The most likely place to get the information on what and why is the SeaMonkey bi-weekly meeting [and/or the meeting notes] or these newsgroups. If you see something in the release notes that you think warrants more explanation, a simple So, I don't understand, was something broken with the old bookmarks system? why did you guys change it so drastically? which would get a response [paraphrased] like Old code was unmaintained, we are using the Core code, and tied that into SeaMonkey in the best way we could That type of question gets a much clearer answer (in that regard) than a post like [exaggeration] I hate you all, you broke 'groupmarks'! You should all rot in hell. I'm transferring to chrome -- ~Justin Wood (Callek), SeaMonkey Council Member ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Sun, 07 Aug 2011 14:52:03 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: The problem is, the release notes do not provide any of this background -- we the users have no way of knowing which features were deliberately introduced by the Seamonkey team, which were carried over from Firefox/Gecko because they appeared to the Seamonkey team to be a good idea, and which were carried over because although the Seamonkey team viewed them as deleterious, they lacked the resources to replace them with something better (or to omit them completely). The release notes have noted every change introduced by the core platform, also. It is quite possible ignorant users don't bother to read and understand them extensively. It has also appeared to me users which skip versions don't bother to read the notes about the versions they skip. I admit to miss to read them often, too. The SeaMonkey team also badly needs contributors to the documentation. If you think you could help in that aspect - sign up for it. Another approach is, if you're an experienced user, to provide support to questions regarding you area of expertise, e.g. how have you managed to adapt the new bookmarks management (a.k.a. Places) mapping your old habits to the new facilities. The problem is very often there are no real support questions but random rants largely driven by user ignorance. Sun, 07 Aug 2011 14:52:03 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: And finally, as Robert Kaiser have already pointed out, innovation-resistance won't make SeaMonkey any better. No, but it may help to make it less worse. Could you elaborate on that? Do you think the SeaMonkey developers could just learn the nuclear physics employed in the Mozilla platform core, just to be able to fix few of your pet peeves, then support largely outdated, unmaintained, having known security issues platform? Do you think having a really outdated browser component, in terms of features required by Web sites, will make SeaMonkey less worse? Less worse than what? Again, if you feel really strong you've once got a full featured and stable product - just revert to the last version of it. However I think you realize it has never been the case. -- Stanimir ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: Sat, 06 Aug 2011 21:47:15 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: Robert Kaiser wrote: Well, the mass of innovation-resistant people posting in those forums is at least one of the reasons why I moved away my focus from SeaMonkey and work on making Firefox more stable (in terms of not crashing) now. Understood, Robert. I can quite see that from the perspective of a developer, pushing the frontiers of science is a far more appealing prospect than a daily grind of bug-fixing and papering over the cracks. Unfortunately, from a user perspective, major change is rarely welcome, whilst increased security and incremental bug fixes are universally appreciated. Do you guys clearly understand the SeaMonkey developers don't get paid for their work on SeaMonkey? This guy understands it perfectly, and is very grateful to those volunteers for their work and efforts on what has, until recently, been a superb suite of software that has formed a central part of his everyday working regime. His concern is that this suite is now evolving in a way and a direction that will make it ever less usable. Once again - it is all volunteer effort! Do you understand the maintenance of SeaMonkey involves various compromises to fit with the ever evolving Mozilla platform? That may well be the reality of the situation, in which case we should be neither surprised nor disappointed to realise that what Seamonkey users want will be given far less weight than what Mozilla and the Firefox team want. Which does not make it any less of a shame. If you want completely feature frozen product - just use whatever version you've been satisfied with at some point in time. However you understand you can't use just that version because of necessary security fixes appearing in subsequent releases, or just because the browser or another component becomes too outdated to support required latest technologies. Note, the SeaMonkey developers don't develop these latest technologies and they can't provide security fixes to the platform on their own - we (the SeaMonkey users) are all dependent on the Mozilla platform (the development of which is mainly driven by the Firefox development). You can either continue to bitch, Putting a reasoned argument on behalf of those who prefer stability and security to non-essential change is not bitching; it is offering a constructive criticism that should be interpreted as such. or get your hands dirty by keeping track of how the Mozilla platform evolves, then get some technical knowledge to understand how this affects SeaMonkey, and then probably come up with some constructive comments... or code patches you're ready to maintain. Like most Seamonkey users, I prefer to leave code changes to those who know what they are doing; that should not make my input, as a Seamonkey user since day-1, any less valued. And I have already made some constructive comments, such as o Why are tabs now being forced on Seamonkey users ? o Why are Seamonkey users now restricted to three levels of zoom, compared to eight in earlier versions ? and o What is the expected/intended behaviour of the DOM inspector if a wildcard is used as the leading element of a value field in the Find dialogue ? , the latter two of which have elicited zero response. I don't know the answer to the DOM-inspector question, which is why I chose not to answer it when I read it. That said there is a newsgroup for DOM Inspector in these newsgroups (though much less frequented then SeaMonkey) and it *is* an on-topic question in our group here so I'm not about to ask you to switch either. :-) Though the Why ... three levels of zoom I recall us describing the why many times; Us mentioning a bug #; and (recently) one of our newsgroup readers actually FIXING that issue with code and a solution that satisfied our requirements of a localisable Zoom Menu. Sadly I cannot remember for certain which SeaMonkey version is the first to carry that fix, (I *think* 2.4 but I may be wrong) And lastly tabs, are not being forced on our users, they are being enabled by default. And the default menu orderings being changed to reflect that in some cases. [Users worldwide and across many browsers have a strong liking for tabs]. But any piece of our code that does not respect the tab prefs, is a bug and if we are made aware of it, we plan to fix it as soon as possible. [This means that if a tab is *forced* on you, not if we *allow* tabs to be chosen/used, fwiw] -- ~Justin Wood (Callek) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
WLS wrote: Daniel wrote: WLS wrote: Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: WLS wrote: Ray_Net wrote: WLS wrote: Ray_Net wrote: MCBastos wrote: Interviewed by CNN on 05/08/2011 11:17, Bill Davidsen told the world: Some commercial users have complained that they can't do a QA cycle that often, and according to the reports were told that Firefox is not suitable for business use. I can dig out the link for anyone who hasn't learned to use a search engine, I saw it in either networkworld.com or slashdot. This guy at Ars Technica had a different spin on the issue: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/06/firefox-update-policy-the-enterprise-is-wrong-not-mozilla.ars/ Where we can read: six week cycle is the goal. Therefore the end-user MUST install a new version each six weeks. He have other things to do This is why he will decide: I will stay on my version for at least one year ... i am not part of an SM testing group. You are a part of any browser testing group whether you want to be or not. Even the most stable releases have bugs, and new security holes are often found that need to be fixed. Some light reading for you if you so choose. http://blog.mozilla.com/channels/2011/07/18/every-six-weeks/ and since Firefox, Thunderbird and SeaMonkey are all Gecko based, this was an interesting read for me. At the end of the article, i read: Comments are closed. http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2011/08/02/extending-our-reach-lets-talk-gecko/ That was written by Mitchell Baker the Chair of the Mozilla Foundation. I still want a crank for my auto ignition, but I had to move on, to that danged remote starter thingy, I agree to start for the future but people need less steps to go to the future ... not a change every six weeks. If you want to miss out on 3D sound visualizers with WebGL and HTML5 Audio, that is your choice. I want all the latest new web innovations, whether I use them or not. I'd post a link to the demo, but it currently works in Firefox only. Come on SM developers get caught up! :) Huh, unless the web app is specifically targetting Firefox and ignoring everyone else, a similar-Gecko-Version SeaMonkey should work for those pure-web demo's. Can you provide a link to what is not working in SeaMonkey that Works in Firefox on a web demo level. ESPECIALLY if it is hosted by mozilla. Thanks, Just tested it in SeaMonkey and it works. Needing a Firefox browser was the author's words not mine. Sorry, I should have checked. Stating you needed a modern Gecko based browser may have been better. Here is the link if anyone wants to view the demo. http://robhawkes.github.com/webgl-html5-audio-visualiser/ Clicking on the link got me Jazz sounding music with a blank screen and Done SeaMonkey 2.2 on Mandriva Linux 2009.0 on a HP 6730b laptop. Do you have WebGL disabled in about:config? Really even if its enabled in about:config, it could be disabled on your system. Please check about:support (type that into your URL bar) and be sure you have SeaMonkey 2.1 or later. Next scroll to the bottom of the page and under Graphics, you should see data about WebGL, Direct2D etc., if it is listed as enabled there but failing to work properly, we (Gecko's graphics team) would love to know about it, and have a bug on file. And if there is a difference between *us* (SeaMonkey) and Firefox (of the same Gecko version) in the WebGL renderings, we (SeaMonkey Devs) want to know about it! -- ~Justin Wood (Callek) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: I don't know the answer to the DOM-inspector question, which is why I chose not to answer it when I read it. That said there is a newsgroup for DOM Inspector in these newsgroups (though much less frequented then SeaMonkey) and it *is* an on-topic question in our group here so I'm not about to ask you to switch either. :-) OK, understood. Do you happen to know if the relevant Usenet newsgroup is gatewayed into a mailing list, in which case I could subscribe to it and re-post my question there. Though the Why ... three levels of zoom I recall us describing the why many times; Us mentioning a bug #; and (recently) one of our newsgroup readers actually FIXING that issue with code and a solution that satisfied our requirements of a localisable Zoom Menu. Sadly I cannot remember for certain which SeaMonkey version is the first to carry that fix, (I *think* 2.4 but I may be wrong) I can trace no answer in this mailing list, Justin; is it possible that some answers are not making it through the Usenet news : mailing list gateway. And lastly tabs, are not being forced on our users, they are being enabled by default. And the default menu orderings being changed to reflect that in some cases. [Users worldwide and across many browsers have a strong liking for tabs]. But any piece of our code that does not respect the tab prefs, is a bug and if we are made aware of it, we plan to fix it as soon as possible. [This means that if a tab is *forced* on you, not if we *allow* tabs to be chosen/used, fwiw] As of 2.2, tabs were forced when one attempted to access either the Data Manager or the Add-ons manager via the Tools menu interface. If that behaviour is reverted in a more recent release, then I am both reassured and delighted. Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 10:37:53 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: Putting a reasoned argument on behalf of those who prefer stability and security to non-essential change is not bitching; it is offering a constructive criticism that should be interpreted as such. The problem with the so called constructive criticism I see widespread in this group, is it doesn't help keeping the SeaMonkey product alive, most importantly, and then usable, both related to the Mozilla platform dependency remark I've given previously. if its widespread doesn't tell you something. Since the Mozilla all in one was broken up to SM FF, and TB. Mozilla doesn't give as rat's behind what happens to SM. Its what the users of SeaMonkey are interested SM. SM should cater to the users. If it was left to Mozilla Org. They would put a stake in SeaMonkey and burn it. have you read all the complaints from corporations that have left FireFox because of this rapid release Madness. Corporate users are the number one users of Mozilla products. And users are running away in droves. Only recently have Mozilla tried courting the Corporate users and figuring out a way to not release faster than Corporate IT's can keep up. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Sun, 07 Aug 2011 11:31:21 -0400, /PhillipJones/: Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: The problem with the so called constructive criticism I see widespread in this group, is it doesn't help keeping the SeaMonkey product alive, most importantly, and then usable, both related to the Mozilla platform dependency remark I've given previously. if its widespread doesn't tell you something. It tells me just that - lots of ignorant users ranting. Since the Mozilla all in one was broken up to SM FF, and TB. Mozilla doesn't give as rat's behind what happens to SM. Its what the users of SeaMonkey are interested SM. SM should cater to the users. Being longtime Mozilla Suite and SeaMonkey user I clearly see the SeaMonkey developers cater to the users, and I really dislike the unwarranted criticism going on. -- Stanimir ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 11:31:21 -0400, /PhillipJones/: Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: The problem with the so called constructive criticism I see widespread in this group, is it doesn't help keeping the SeaMonkey product alive, most importantly, and then usable, both related to the Mozilla platform dependency remark I've given previously. if its widespread doesn't tell you something. It tells me just that - lots of ignorant users ranting. Stanimir, I understand and respect your defence of the Seamonkey project team, but I really think you need to take on board the fact that when criticism is widespread, it is more often the case that the criticism is justified than that all those making the criticism are ill-informed. Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 12:12:48 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: I agree that some of the critiques have lacked focus; but in general, I believe that those who are most vocal in criticising the current changes in Seamonkey development and release are also amongst those who are most deeply concerned that Seamonkey /should/ remain alive and usable : they are, in the main, people who (for better or worse) have come to depend on Seamonkey, and who are genuinely afraid that recent changes do not bode well for the future. The only thing I'm genuinely afraid of is that the last few people who care about, and have enough knowledge to develop and maintain SeaMonkey might loose interest because of so much unreasonable criticism going on. From my point of view every change to the SeaMonkey 2+ versions is well justified and reflects the capabilities of the SeaMonkey team. This is what I've been trying to explain previously, and further below. What we need (IMHO) is a genuine debate between users and developers; a little less sniping, and a better appreciation by each side of the wishes of, and constraints on, the other side, would go a long way towards ensuring a viable future for this most valuable suite of software. Your reply leads me to think you don't really understand the status quo, although you state so. Most of the features people vocally criticize the SeaMonkey developers about are not written by the SeaMonkey devs themselves, but by the core Mozilla platform team. The SeaMonkey devs are far too few in order to provide maintenance of old code, they have not really written, or to implement it anew, on top of the evolving Mozilla platform. The SeaMonkey devs try their best to preserve much of the original Mozilla Suite features perceived as most important to people, but it is not always possible because of major core changes introduced by the platform. I guess this is something vocally criticizing people in here can't really understand, being not interested in how the Mozilla platform evolves, and then how it affects the SeaMonkey project, which apart from some hardware infrastructure is not sponsored by the Mozilla organization in any way (as far as I'm aware). And finally, as Robert Kaiser have already pointed out, innovation-resistance won't make SeaMonkey any better. Its no point in point out anything. Everything is set in stone. everyone refuses to listen. I don't like the route FF has gone in. But when you get to the point you kill off Internet plugins that have word for ages and still should work. That the point I stop upgrading. With 2.3 I can't even view large sections of my own website. and I set up so it 4.0.1 Strict. I use a lot of PDF's and no pdf's will work. Same thing happened on Safari 5.1 so I went back to 5.0.5 the last that worked. So I am sticking wit 2.0.14 until it no longer works. Messing with Pluggins is a no no. Extension Fine if they are updated. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.netmailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: I don't know the answer to the DOM-inspector question, which is why I chose not to answer it when I read it. That said there is a newsgroup for DOM Inspector in these newsgroups (though much less frequented then SeaMonkey) and it *is* an on-topic question in our group here so I'm not about to ask you to switch either. :-) OK, understood. Do you happen to know if the relevant Usenet newsgroup is gatewayed into a mailing list, in which case I could subscribe to it and re-post my question there. Yes there is: https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-dom-inspector Though the Why ... three levels of zoom I recall us describing the why many times; Us mentioning a bug #; and (recently) one of our newsgroup readers actually FIXING that issue with code and a solution that satisfied our requirements of a localisable Zoom Menu. Sadly I cannot remember for certain which SeaMonkey version is the first to carry that fix, (I *think* 2.4 but I may be wrong) I can trace no answer in this mailing list, Justin; is it possible that some answers are not making it through the Usenet news : mailing list gateway. That is certainly possible, I have known of similar issues in the past, but I have no easy way to identify such an issue happening (and I'm horrid at trying to search my news archives -- so must rely strictly on my own memory.) -- ~Justin Wood (Callek) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3 [Tabbed UI Features]
Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: As of 2.2, tabs were forced when one attempted to access either the Data Manager or the Add-ons manager via the Tools menu interface. If that behaviour is reverted in a more recent release, then I am both reassured and delighted. Hrm, my memory on our behavior here is apparently wrong, (I just tested in my open 2.2, and I could not find a setting to cause the data manager to open in a new window [or reuse a non-empty current tab] via the preferences window) Can you please either CC me to an existing bug on this, or file a new one? I will plan to look into it, and drive it forward as soon as I can. [I am busy so I have no usable ETA on this, but happy to help drive it if someone else wants to code it] With pleasure (it will be a new bug; I have so far held back from filing bugs, preferring to find out from the list whether or not they are already known). I personally use tabs, and prefer them so I apologize for not catching this before my latest reply to you, (I'll also plan to test in our trunk builds before investing time in writing code, but I try and use our latest beta's as my regular, except for mail/news where I use our latest stable) No problem : many thanks for your most positive response. Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Sun, 07 Aug 2011 11:41:56 -0400, /PhillipJones/: But when you get to the point you kill off Internet plugins that have word for ages and still should work. That the point I stop upgrading. With 2.3 I can't even view large sections of my own website. and I set up so it 4.0.1 Strict. I use a lot of PDF's and no pdf's will work. Could be more specific - which plugins, PDF? Should I explain you personally, while I've already stated it number of times in this thread, SeaMonkey developers haven't killed any plugins themselves? Further, what strict HTML doesn't work with SeaMonkey 2.3? Note PDF is not a Web media and it's all up to the plugin. Looking at your site I have no problem with viewing the PDFs inline using SeaMonkey 2.3 (Windows 7, having Adobe Reader X installed). You could either configure the Adobe Acrobat plugin to not open PDF documents in the browser, or you could disable it, causing the PDFs always opened by external application (or just saved locally). Same thing happened on Safari 5.1 so I went back to 5.0.5 the last that worked. So I am sticking wit 2.0.14 until it no longer works. Messing with Pluggins is a no no. Extension Fine if they are updated. Your problems really seem like exception, not caused by SeaMonkey. -- Stanimir ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: While the widespreading could be a symptom to a problem, I've been observing this group long enough to deduce most of the criticism seen is just ignorant babble. OK, in view of your long association with, and observation of, this group, may I ask you one question ? Has there been equally widespread (and ill-informed ?) criticism following each major release of Seamonkey, or has there been an apparent increase in the level of criticism following any particular recent release or group of releases ? Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: While the widespreading could be a symptom to a problem, I've been observing this group long enough to deduce most of the criticism seen is just ignorant babble. OK, in view of your long association with, and observation of, this group, may I ask you one question ? Has there been equally widespread (and ill-informed ?) criticism following each major release of Seamonkey, or has there been an apparent increase in the level of criticism following any particular recent release or group of releases ? In my [personal] observations the releases of 2.1/2.2 have gotten FAR fewer complaints and issues, as compared to the earlier releases. And in fact have garnished many [more than usual] WONDERFUL, THANK YOU's as well. The issues one encounters will certain feel inflated if its an issue you care about; which is why in any public fora used by developers of a product I will first have a reason to post, then *always* read, take a few days to recoup my thoughts *then* post, so I can get my bearings right while being as constructive as possible. Sometimes that is hard as both a user of a product, and as a developer in these forums. It is hard sometimes to keep yourself objective when you are passionate about a project/idea. Of course it is that same passion that drives you (and me) to use and care enough to communicate about SeaMonkey, even when we [plural: many] hold different views. -- ~Justin Wood (Callek) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards
Keith Whaley wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Don wrote: Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward. [...] Is there any simple way to go back to an earlier version and still keep my bookmarks, settings, emails etc.? Also how do I write the people who wrote this version to complain. Not just to report a bug. (this version IS a bug.) No. You must accept the developers dreams ... they are not paid, so they can do what they want. A commonly-stated incorrect-ism. While the developers may not receive any remuneration for what they do, they ARE employed. And as such, that 'team' must follow the direction(s) set down by those in charge, who (presumably) have a direction they have planned to follow, to attain whatever mutual goals have been established. All moving vehicles or groups need a goal and a direction. Do/go where they want? I don't think so... The SM team is not a reincantation of the Keystone Kops. keith whaley Just what i have said: And as such, that 'team' must follow the direction(s) set down by those in charge, who (presumably) have a direction they have planned to follow, to attain whatever mutual goals have been established. Not the individual do what they want, but the those in charge what they want. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
How can i see the buttons Etape précédente and Etape suivante in a tutorial site
I see only the top half-millimeters of those two buttons in the page. http://google-maps-api-version-3.touraineverte.com/fr/ajouter-un-marqueur-sur-une-carte-avec-api-google-maps-version-3.html Look at bottom of the left pane. I have been told that it's ok when using Firefox. I my understanding SM is based, or use the FF codes ? no ? Perhaps i need some configuration settings with my SM and this is the cause of not viewing the two buttons correctly... This is the code of the needed buttons: div id=progession span class=boutonEtape id=precedentEtape précédente/spannbsp;nbsp;nbsp;span class=boutonEtape id=suivantEtape suivante/span /div I use SM version Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20110608 Firefox/4.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.1 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
PhillipJones wrote: Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 12:12:48 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: I agree that some of the critiques have lacked focus; but in general, I believe that those who are most vocal in criticising the current changes in Seamonkey development and release are also amongst those who are most deeply concerned that Seamonkey /should/ remain alive and usable : they are, in the main, people who (for better or worse) have come to depend on Seamonkey, and who are genuinely afraid that recent changes do not bode well for the future. The only thing I'm genuinely afraid of is that the last few people who care about, and have enough knowledge to develop and maintain SeaMonkey might loose interest because of so much unreasonable criticism going on. From my point of view every change to the SeaMonkey 2+ versions is well justified and reflects the capabilities of the SeaMonkey team. This is what I've been trying to explain previously, and further below. What we need (IMHO) is a genuine debate between users and developers; a little less sniping, and a better appreciation by each side of the wishes of, and constraints on, the other side, would go a long way towards ensuring a viable future for this most valuable suite of software. Your reply leads me to think you don't really understand the status quo, although you state so. Most of the features people vocally criticize the SeaMonkey developers about are not written by the SeaMonkey devs themselves, but by the core Mozilla platform team. The SeaMonkey devs are far too few in order to provide maintenance of old code, they have not really written, or to implement it anew, on top of the evolving Mozilla platform. The SeaMonkey devs try their best to preserve much of the original Mozilla Suite features perceived as most important to people, but it is not always possible because of major core changes introduced by the platform. I guess this is something vocally criticizing people in here can't really understand, being not interested in how the Mozilla platform evolves, and then how it affects the SeaMonkey project, which apart from some hardware infrastructure is not sponsored by the Mozilla organization in any way (as far as I'm aware). And finally, as Robert Kaiser have already pointed out, innovation-resistance won't make SeaMonkey any better. Its no point in point out anything. Everything is set in stone. everyone refuses to listen. I don't like the route FF has gone in. But when you get to the point you kill off Internet plugins that have word for ages and still should work. That the point I stop upgrading. With 2.3 I can't even view large sections of my own website. and I set up so it 4.0.1 Strict. I use a lot of PDF's and no pdf's will work. Same thing happened on Safari 5.1 so I went back to 5.0.5 the last that worked. So I am sticking wit 2.0.14 until it no longer works. Messing with Pluggins is a no no. Extension Fine if they are updated. I had to copy and paste the symbolic link to the PDF plugin, and PDF's work just fine now. I may be making Summer Spaghetti Salad soon! It's the mp3 that doesn't in my 32-bit installation. I guess I'll have to find that symbolic link and copy it also. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: How can i see the buttons Etape précédente and Etape suivante in a tutorial site
Ray_Net wrote: I see only the top half-millimeters of those two buttons in the page. http://google-maps-api-version-3.touraineverte.com/fr/ajouter-un-marqueur-sur-une-carte-avec-api-google-maps-version-3.html Look at bottom of the left pane. I have been told that it's ok when using Firefox. I my understanding SM is based, or use the FF codes ? no ? I would recommend starting by looking at the validity of your HTML CSS; HTML validator access to the URL is reported as forbidden, but the CSS validator has access and reports 27 errors : http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fgoogle-maps-api-version-3.touraineverte.com%2Ffr%2Fajouter-un-marqueur-sur-une-carte-avec-api-google-maps-version-3.htmlprofile=css21usermedium=allwarning=1vextwarning=lang=en Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: How can i see the buttons Etape précédente and Etape suivante in a tutorial site
Ray_Net wrote: I see only the top half-millimeters of those two buttons in the page. http://google-maps-api-version-3.touraineverte.com/fr/ajouter-un-marqueur-sur-une-carte-avec-api-google-maps-version-3.html Look at bottom of the left pane. I have been told that it's ok when using Firefox. I my understanding SM is based, or use the FF codes ? no ? Perhaps i need some configuration settings with my SM and this is the cause of not viewing the two buttons correctly... This is the code of the needed buttons: div id=progession span class=boutonEtape id=precedentEtape précédente/spannbsp;nbsp;nbsp;span class=boutonEtape id=suivantEtape suivante/span /div I use SM version Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20110608 Firefox/4.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.1 Hrm, I confirm this is a problem. I'm not sure *exactly* what is going on yet, or its fix. I tested in SeaMonkey 2.2. It appears the google translate this... bar at the top is pushing the _entire_ page down a bit, including the viewports scrollbar bottom. So SeaMonkey is cutting off part of the website. Closing that google bar (via the [x] at the far right) temporarily fixes it anyway. Sending followup to our .dev group/list since it is odd enough and certainly something is broken. (I have not verified in SeaMonkey 2.3 yet, but that release is far enough along that if it is broken in there, even if we get the fix written today, the earliest release we'll have a fix in is 2.4) -- ~Justin Wood (Callek) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Sun, 07 Aug 2011 17:18:58 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: OK, in view of your long association with, and observation of, this group, may I ask you one question ? Has there been equally widespread (and ill-informed ?) criticism following each major release of Seamonkey, or has there been an apparent increase in the level of criticism following any particular recent release or group of releases ? No, the criticism level has not increased in my opinion, although I've seen few statements it has been higher after 2.1 just came out compared to when 2.0 just came out. In my memories the SeaMonkey 2.0 release brought much more rants (being such a great change over the 1.* versions) than what we see today. I usually don't get into such discussions, regarding how well the few SeaMonkey developers meet the many regular user expectations and whether they do really care about users, but this time I've felt really strong about expressing my dissent with users which don't appear to stop spreading FUD, which has negative impact, especially on newcomers. -- Stanimir ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: How can i see the buttons Etape précédente and Etape suivante in a tutorial site
On 07.08.2011 11:35, Ray_Net wrote: --- Original Message --- I see only the top half-millimeters of those two buttons in the page. http://google-maps-api-version-3.touraineverte.com/fr/ajouter-un-marqueur-sur-une-carte-avec-api-google-maps-version-3.html Look at bottom of the left pane. I have been told that it's ok when using Firefox. I my understanding SM is based, or use the FF codes ? no ? Perhaps i need some configuration settings with my SM and this is the cause of not viewing the two buttons correctly... This is the code of the needed buttons: div id=progession span class=boutonEtape id=precedentEtape précédente/spannbsp;nbsp;nbsp;span class=boutonEtape id=suivantEtape suivante/span /div I use SM version Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20110608 Firefox/4.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.1 Buttons look ok in FF but not in SM, the second button is displayed in half with the other half below it. -- *Jay Garcia - Netscape Champion* www.ufaq.org Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Thunderbird ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: How can i see the buttons Etape précédente and Etape suivante in a tutorial site
Sun, 07 Aug 2011 18:35:12 +0200, /Ray_Net/: I see only the top half-millimeters of those two buttons in the page. http://google-maps-api-version-3.touraineverte.com/fr/ajouter-un-marqueur-sur-une-carte-avec-api-google-maps-version-3.html Look at bottom of the left pane. I have been told that it's ok when using Firefox. I my understanding SM is based, or use the FF codes ? no ? Perhaps i need some configuration settings with my SM and this is the cause of not viewing the two buttons correctly... This is the code of the needed buttons: div id=progession span class=boutonEtape id=precedentEtape précédente/spannbsp;nbsp;nbsp;span class=boutonEtape id=suivantEtape suivante/span /div I use SM version Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20110608 Firefox/4.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.1 It appears to be profile specific for me. I can see scroll-bars and scroll to the bottom of the left pane to see all of the buttons, with my SeaMonkey profile. For some reason (I'm researching) I didn't get scroll-bars using Firefox and my default Firefox profile. Running Firefox in Safe Mode didn't help, but creating a new profile and trying with it showed the scroll-bars just fine. So it doesn't appear SeaMonkey specific. Try the page with a fresh new SeaMonkey profile to see if it makes any difference for you. -- Stanimir ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
On 08/07/2011 08:27 AM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: WLS wrote: Daniel wrote: WLS wrote: ... Here is the link if anyone wants to view the demo. http://robhawkes.github.com/webgl-html5-audio-visualiser/ Clicking on the link got me Jazz sounding music with a blank screen and Done SeaMonkey 2.2 on Mandriva Linux 2009.0 on a HP 6730b laptop. Do you have WebGL disabled in about:config? Really even if its enabled in about:config, it could be disabled on your system. Please check about:support (type that into your URL bar) and be sure you have SeaMonkey 2.1 or later. Next scroll to the bottom of the page and under Graphics, you should see data about WebGL, Direct2D etc., if it is listed as enabled there but failing to work properly, we (Gecko's graphics team) would love to know about it, and have a bug on file. And if there is a difference between *us* (SeaMonkey) and Firefox (of the same Gecko version) in the WebGL renderings, we (SeaMonkey Devs) want to know about it! Same as Daniel. Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110731 Firefox/6.0 SeaMonkey/2.3 From about:support Graphics Adapter DescriptionNVIDIA Corporation -- Quadro4 900 XGL/AGP/SSE2Driver Version1.5.8 NVIDIA 96.43.19WebGL RendererBlocked for your graphics driver version. Try updating your graphics driver to version NVIDIA 257.21 or newer.GPU Accelerated Windows0/6. Blocked for your graphics driver version. Try updating your graphics driver to version NVIDIA 257.21 or newer. Seems to be the Windows Vista syndrome... fill the landfills with old hardware so that you can experience the latest greatest. Further, NVIDIA 257.21 doesn't work on Quadro4 cards. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
NoOp wrote: Seems to be the Windows Vista syndrome... fill the landfills with old hardware so that you can experience the latest greatest. Further, NVIDIA 257.21 doesn't work on Quadro4 cards. Not restricted to Vista; I too see nothing under Win/XP;SP3. Adapter DescriptionATI Radeon X300/X550/X1050 Series Vendor ID 1002 Device ID 5b60 Adapter RAMUnknown Adapter Driversati2dvag Driver Version 8.593.100.0 Driver Date2-10-2010 Direct2D Enabled Blocked on your graphics driver. Try updating your graphics driver to version 10.6 or newer. DirectWrite Enabledfalse (0.0.0.0, font cache n/a) WebGL Renderer (WebGL unavailable) GPU Accelerated Windows0/15 Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: How can i see the buttons Etape précédente and Etape suivante in a tutorial site
On 08/07/2011 09:35 AM, Ray_Net wrote: I see only the top half-millimeters of those two buttons in the page. http://google-maps-api-version-3.touraineverte.com/fr/ajouter-un-marqueur-sur-une-carte-avec-api-google-maps-version-3.html Look at bottom of the left pane. I have been told that it's ok when using Firefox. I my understanding SM is based, or use the FF codes ? no ? Perhaps i need some configuration settings with my SM and this is the cause of not viewing the two buttons correctly... This is the code of the needed buttons: div id=progession span class=boutonEtape id=precedentEtape précédente/spannbsp;nbsp;nbsp;span class=boutonEtape id=suivantEtape suivante/span /div I use SM version Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20110608 Firefox/4.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.1 The page is identical for me (buttons are fine): Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0 and Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110731 Firefox/6.0 SeaMonkey/2.3 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Daniel wrote: Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 10:37:53 +0100, /Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)/: Putting a reasoned argument on behalf of those who prefer stability and security to non-essential change is not bitching; it is offering a constructive criticism that should be interpreted as such. The problem with the so called constructive criticism I see widespread in this group, is it doesn't help keeping the SeaMonkey product alive, most importantly, and then usable, both related to the Mozilla platform dependency remark I've given previously. I agree that some of the critiques have lacked focus; but in general, I believe that those who are most vocal in criticising the current changes in Seamonkey development and release are also amongst those who are most deeply concerned that Seamonkey /should/ remain alive and usable : they are, in the main, people who (for better or worse) have come to depend on Seamonkey, and who are genuinely afraid that recent changes do not bode well for the future. What we need (IMHO) is a genuine debate between users and developers; a little less sniping, and a better appreciation by each side of the wishes of, and constraints on, the other side, would go a long way towards ensuring a viable future for this most valuable suite of software. Philip Taylor Philip, perhaps it might help to consider the SeaMonkey developers not as a group of developers who are trying to produce a product that will sweep all before them, but as a group of *USERS* who are trying to produce a product that will do what *they* want, and you and I get to use the result of their efforts for free. If they do the development you/I want, great. If not, you/I may need to find some other solution! Third. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3 - Firefox updates too often
PhillipJones wrote: Rufus wrote: PhillipJones wrote: Rufus wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: PhillipJones schrieb: The original post meant SeaMonkey. It didn't. FF is up to 5.6.7.8 or whatever. SM increments their major updates by .1's 2.0, 2.1, 2.2., 2.3, 2.4 and so on. That is just a different numbering system, the rate and size of updates is very similar. Version numbers in software are just like coordinate systems in physics: But necessarily and irrelevant. They're necessary as a reference system but it's completely irrelevant and arbitrary how you set them. Robert Kaiser ...somebody clue me in on what this is all about? I guess this time I'm on the side of the developers...the new release schedule is something I can completely understand for once...and it certainly doesn't bother me. The numbers are just a reference and don't mean much in and of themselves, as stated. I get it. What's the problem? Just because releases come fast and furious doesn't mean that a user has to update on anyone's schedule but their own. They may need to pay more attention to the release notes and be more aware of what they're missing/getting, but in the end they are still in charge of administering their own machines...right? the OP of this thread obviously meant SM 2.3 and mistakenly wrote FF. And some of the people that show know better are demanding the thread be moved to FF. FF 2.3 has a beard as long as mine. Its obvious it was meant for SeaMonkey. I agree SM and (for that matter FF) is being updated too often. they release a new version even before they, even fix bugs from the previous versions. So they end up piling on bug after Bug. The proper thing to do is fix the bugs in current release get it stable then add new features and fix bugs from the new feature and get that stable. The way we are going, we will get a reputation Like Intuit. when they come out with a new release the don't fix bugs from previous release. So they pile new bugs on top. Quicken and Quickbooks are almost unusable. Because the put features over fixing bugs. I guess I don't really have an issue with the frequency of updates, and I don't use Quicken or Quickbooks, but I do/could have an issue with quality control...in either case I just need to be a bit more vigilant and pay attention to the release notes and user commentary, as I've said. The new release schedule and numbering don't bother me one bit other than that. *This* surprises the crap out of me though, considering some of what I've read here elsewhere - http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/ ...and you get it via the Apple App Store. This is something they have been working on for years. and finally put out. Shame they haven't come out with one for BlackBerry. iPhone Andriod, and BlackBerry (RIM) are the three major players. MS bringing up the rear. I'm rather surprised they don't charge for it - I'd certainly be willing to pay 99 cents for something like this, and I think most users would at a 99 cent price point for a useful companion to the otherwise free desktop browser... There's your biz model/revenue stream, team. Companion i-apps. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: How can i see the buttons Etape précédente and Etape suivante in a tutorial site
On 08/07/2011 11:13 AM, NoOp wrote: On 08/07/2011 09:35 AM, Ray_Net wrote: I see only the top half-millimeters of those two buttons in the page. http://google-maps-api-version-3.touraineverte.com/fr/ajouter-un-marqueur-sur-une-carte-avec-api-google-maps-version-3.html Look at bottom of the left pane. I have been told that it's ok when using Firefox. I my understanding SM is based, or use the FF codes ? no ? Perhaps i need some configuration settings with my SM and this is the cause of not viewing the two buttons correctly... This is the code of the needed buttons: div id=progession span class=boutonEtape id=precedentEtape précédente/spannbsp;nbsp;nbsp;span class=boutonEtape id=suivantEtape suivante/span /div I use SM version Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20110608 Firefox/4.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.1 The page is identical for me (buttons are fine): Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0 and Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110731 Firefox/6.0 SeaMonkey/2.3 Screenshot of what I see: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/apigooglemapsversion3se.png/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
[This is mostly for Philip et al. since Callek surely knows or can find out himself.] Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: Though the Why ... three levels of zoom I recall us describing the why many times; Us mentioning a bug #; and (recently) one of our newsgroup readers actually FIXING that issue with code and a solution that satisfied our requirements of a localisable Zoom Menu. Sadly I cannot remember for certain which SeaMonkey version is the first to carry that fix, (I *think* 2.4 but I may be wrong) AFAICS it's 2.5 (current trunk) that will have seven levels in the plus direction and 4 in the negative direction again by default. Current Aurora nightlies (to-be 2.4) still have 3/3. Note: When upgrading, you'll need to reset the toolkit.zoomManager.zoomValues pref manually (e.g. using about:config) and then restart SeaMonkey. I don't know which but one of the following bugs should be the one: 635179, 672146, 621823, 667529, 667525. And lastly tabs, are not being forced on our users, they are being enabled by default. And the default menu orderings being changed to reflect that in some cases. [Users worldwide and across many browsers have a strong liking for tabs]. But any piece of our code that does not respect the tab prefs, is a bug and if we are made aware of it, we plan to fix it as soon as possible. [This means that if a tab is *forced* on you, not if we *allow* tabs to be chosen/used, fwiw] IOW, for things like Add-ons Manager and Data Manager (called from different places!), corresponding bugs need to be filed if not already present. No bug, no change. HTH Jens -- Jens Hatlak http://jens.hatlak.de/ SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker http://smtt.blogspot.com/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
On 08/07/2011 11:13 AM, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: NoOp wrote: Seems to be the Windows Vista syndrome... fill the landfills with old hardware so that you can experience the latest greatest. Further, NVIDIA 257.21 doesn't work on Quadro4 cards. Not restricted to Vista; I too see nothing under Win/XP;SP3. Adapter DescriptionATI Radeon X300/X550/X1050 Series Vendor ID 1002 Device ID 5b60 Adapter RAMUnknown Adapter Driversati2dvag Driver Version 8.593.100.0 Driver Date2-10-2010 Direct2D Enabled Blocked on your graphics driver. Try updating your graphics driver to version 10.6 or newer. DirectWrite Enabledfalse (0.0.0.0, font cache n/a) WebGL Renderer (WebGL unavailable) GPU Accelerated Windows0/15 Philip Taylor Ummm... I use linux. My reference to Vista was the push by Microsoft to move from XP to Vista. Only problem was/is that many users had to go out buy new hardware in order to get Vista to run. Actually that was fortunate (for me) as I picked up several 'not-Vista-compatible' systems that simply needed a bit of memory cleanup to reformat install linux. In fact the machine I'm typing on now is one of those (2.4Ghz/3Gb/Nvida Quadro4). ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Jens Hatlak wrote: [This is mostly for Philip et al. since Callek surely knows or can find out himself.] AFAICS it's 2.5 (current trunk) that will have seven levels in the plus direction and 4 in the negative direction again by default. Current Aurora nightlies (to-be 2.4) still have 3/3. Note: When upgrading, you'll need to reset the toolkit.zoomManager.zoomValues pref manually (e.g. using about:config) and then restart SeaMonkey. OK, thank you. I have tried with Seamonkey 2.2, using : toolkit.zoomManager.zoomValues : 0.125,0.25,0.5,1.0,2.0,4.0,8.0 zoom.minPercent : 12 zoom.maxPercent : 800 and now see exactly three levels of zoom in total (default, +, -). Presumably this is expected at the Rev 2.2 level and I can't expect anything closer to what I need until Seamonkey 2.5 hits the streets. IOW, for things like Add-ons Manager and Data Manager (called from different places!), corresponding bugs need to be filed if not already present. No bug, no change. Will do. Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Jens Hatlak wrote: [This is mostly for Philip et al. since Callek surely knows or can find out himself.] AFAICS it's 2.5 (current trunk) that will have seven levels in the plus direction and 4 in the negative direction again by default. Current Aurora nightlies (to-be 2.4) still have 3/3. Note: When upgrading, you'll need to reset the toolkit.zoomManager.zoomValues pref manually (e.g. using about:config) and then restart SeaMonkey. OK, thank you. I have tried with Seamonkey 2.2, using : toolkit.zoomManager.zoomValues : 0.125,0.25,0.5,1.0,2.0,4.0,8.0 zoom.minPercent : 12 zoom.maxPercent : 800 and now see exactly three levels of zoom in total (default, +, -). Correction : I see that in the browser. In the e-mail client, I see -3 + default + +3, as wished for :-) Philip Taylor ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
On 11-08-06 4:47 PM, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: Well, the mass of innovation-resistant people posting in those forums is at least one of the reasons why I moved away my focus from SeaMonkey and work on making Firefox more stable (in terms of not crashing) now. Understood, Robert. I can quite see that from the perspective of a developer, pushing the frontiers of science is a far more appealing prospect than a daily grind of bug-fixing and papering over the cracks. Unfortunately, from a user perspective, major change is rarely welcome, whilst increased security and incremental bug fixes are universally appreciated. Philip, did you see my previous reply to you? About all the work done on crash protection and performance? See http://www.mail-archive.com/support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org/msg27814.html -- Chris Ilias http://ilias.ca Newsgroup moderator ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Tried using Data Manager
Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: On 8/6/2011 9:22 PM, Stan wrote: So, I deleted cookies, popups, etc. What did you do to delete these, by my reading it sounds as though you deleted them some way, THEN went to use the data manager for teh first time; which sounds as if you did the deletion another way. Cookies deleted with a program that I use to clean up my system of excess unneeded files. Went into Preferences and changed parameters to block all pop-ups. Also set Load All Images Ultimatey set them to accept everything and problems went away. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Just as a note due to recent events, I will not reply to any private email sent as responses to messages in this newsgroup. Robert Kaiser -- Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Rufus schrieb: ...WTF is *this*? http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/ Not a SeaMonkey thing at least. Robert Kaiser -- Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) schrieb: But would it not help to prevent unjustified criticism if the rationale for each change were documented in the release notes ? I don't think so, esp. as AFAIK the changes page of the release notes already links all the bug reports and those usually state the reason. Also, I can't see who could volunteer his/her time to write up the tons of documentation you want. I'm pretty sure the handful of people who'd even read that are not worth the time of a volunteer when the same person could improve code or help content instead. Robert Kaiser -- Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: ...WTF is *this*? http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/ Not a SeaMonkey thing at least. Robert Kaiser ...wonder if it would work with SM, though? I find some Firefox things do. I like the idea of it, anyway. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Jens Hatlak schrieb: IOW, for things like Add-ons Manager and Data Manager (called from different places!), corresponding bugs need to be filed if not already present. No bug, no change. One is enough, it's the switchToTabHavingURI() function that is to blame and used by both. Robert Kaiser -- Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3 - Firefox updates too often
PhillipJones schrieb: the OP of this thread obviously meant SM 2.3 and mistakenly wrote FF. The one I replied to obviously didn't. Robert Kaiser -- Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Rufus schrieb: Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: ...WTF is *this*? http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/ Not a SeaMonkey thing at least. Robert Kaiser ...wonder if it would work with SM, though? I find some Firefox things do. I like the idea of it, anyway. If you mean Firefox Home, which has been available for a long time, just not promoted on there before, yes, it works with SeaMonkey Sync just like with Firefox Sync, as it's exactly the same technology. :) Robert Kaiser -- Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Can't add a second email account
Seamonkey 2.2 In Seamonkey Mail, I currently have 1 email account, and 1 newsgroup account. When I try to add a second email account, the new account wizard does not give me the option to select which type of account I want to add. With the Mail window open, I click on Edit in the Mail toolbar, then I click on 'Mail and Newsgroup Account Settings...'. This opens the Mail Newsgroups Account Settings window. I then click on the Add Account... button. This then brings up the Account Wizard window. There are only two fields in this window, 1) 'Your Name:', and 2) 'Email Address:', which already has my email address prefilled in. I enter my name in the 'Your Name:' field, and click on 'Next'. The next window that opens is 'Server Information' in the Account Wizard. There's only one field, Newsgroup Server:, which has 'news.mozilla.org' in it. Am I doing something wrong? ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3 - Firefox updates too often
Interviewed by CNN on 07/08/2011 15:23, Rufus told the world: I'm rather surprised they don't charge for it - I'd certainly be willing to pay 99 cents for something like this, and I think most users would at a 99 cent price point for a useful companion to the otherwise free desktop browser... There's your biz model/revenue stream, team. Companion i-apps. Why would they? Mozilla has never charged the users for their products. It's just not something that goes well with the non-profit foundation status. -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... Sent from my Strawberry. *Added by TagZilla 0.066.2 running on Seamonkey 2.1 * Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Interviewed by CNN on 07/08/2011 19:14, Robert Kaiser told the world: If you mean Firefox Home, which has been available for a long time, just not promoted on there before, yes, it works with SeaMonkey Sync just like with Firefox Sync, as it's exactly the same technology. :) To complement KaiRo's answer above: also, the thing that ALLOWS IT TO WORK WITH SEAMONKEY is *precisely* the move to Places that happened on SM 2.1. So, keep that in mind next time you complain about the changes in the Seamonkey bookmarks system. I, for one, love the Places system. I have about 2000 bookmarks, and it makes *so* much easier to find the one I want... also, site icons now stay long-term, instead of disappearing after a few days. -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... Sent from my temple scribe. *Added by TagZilla 0.066.2 running on Seamonkey 2.1 * Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Interviewed by CNN on 07/08/2011 00:39, Graham told the world: Funny that. I thought that a large part of the point of Seamonkey was precisely to avoid change for change's sake, or we'd all have been using Firefox. Not quite. The point is to have an integrated suite geared for power users, instead of stand-alone applications geared for beginner/general public. The main reason I stayed with Mozilla/Seamonkey all these years was the integration. But I always yearned for some stuff from Firefox. Toolkit interface to ease extensions developers to support SM - Got that in 2.0 Places bookmark system, to allow Sync and deal better with lots of bookmarks - Finally got it in 2.1 Now I'm not yearning so much, the things I miss currently are mostly the fault of extension developers who don't bother to support SM. But as a heavy tab user, I think when the Firefox guys finish beating the bugs on Panorama/Tab Groups, I might begin wishing for that too. -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... Sent from my Sinclair ZX81. *Added by TagZilla 0.066.2 running on Seamonkey 2.1 * Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Interviewed by CNN on 07/08/2011 17:41, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) told the world: Yes indeed, Chris, and it was not my intention to ignore it. Rather, my point (perhaps poorly made) was that by tying increased security and incremental bug fixes to deliberate (or forced, by changes in the underlying engine or in the Firefox sources) changes in the user interface (or whatever), a Seamonkey user is now required to accept the latter in order to benefit from the former. It was my impression (and I may have been wrong), that up and till V2.0.14, these two elements were not bundled : that is, V2.0.14 was incrementally better than V2.0.x, x 14, yet there were no perceivable changes in the user interface. Now, if I understand correctly, a user wishing to benefit from post V2.2 security/stability/performance will have no option but to migrate to V2.3+, even though doing so may adversely affect his/her user experience. That's essentially correct, but then, that has always been the way of things. Seamonkey 1.x is no longer supported, so if users want the security benefits of Seamonkey 2.x, they will have to accept the new user experience as well. That's true for any product. GM no longer supports my old car. Mozilla no longer supports Firefox 2.x Microsoft no longer supports Windows 2000. The variable, of course, is time. Seamonkey used to support older releases for a while. So did Mozilla -- in fact, Firefox 3.6.x is currently still supported, although 4.0 no longer is. But, the thing is, with limited resources available, supporting those old releases means that the new release does not receive as much work as it needs. With Seamonkey tied to the every-six-weeks Mozilla release schedule, delaying release is not an option. So supporting the old releases is no longer viable. -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... Sent from my Smith-Corona. *Added by TagZilla 0.066.2 running on Seamonkey 2.1 * Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards
Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward. It has many changes with no real improvement. This new version makes some things take more time, like simply saving a bookmark. Now there is no way to designate a new bookmark folder. Many other problems. For one thing there is no documentation for the new changes. example: what the heck are unsorted bookmarks? Also when you open the bookmark header, what is the order of all the bookmarks below the recent tags? Is there any simple way to go back to an earlier version and still keep my bookmarks, settings, emails etc.? Also how do I write the people who wrote this version to complain. Not just to report a bug. (this version IS a bug.) Thanks for any help. Don ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
MCBastos wrote: But, the thing is, with limited resources available, supporting those old releases means that the new release does not receive as much work as it needs. With Seamonkey tied to the every-six-weeks Mozilla release schedule, delaying release is not an option. So supporting the old releases is no longer viable. As our parents used to ask, If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you do it, too? Just because the FF people decided to rush things and churn out a series of half-baked products for the sake of keeping up with the Joneses, why should we ape them? (and /please/ don't ask me to keep my metaphors straight) -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Sun, 07 Aug 2011 20:40:49 -0300, /MCBastos/: Interviewed by CNN on 07/08/2011 00:39, Graham told the world: Funny that. I thought that a large part of the point of Seamonkey was precisely to avoid change for change's sake, or we'd all have been using Firefox. Not quite. The point is to have an integrated suite geared for power users, instead of stand-alone applications geared for beginner/general public. The main reason I stayed with Mozilla/Seamonkey all these years was the integration. But I always yearned for some stuff from Firefox. Same here. Toolkit interface to ease extensions developers to support SM - Got that in 2.0 Places bookmark system, to allow Sync and deal better with lots of bookmarks - Finally got it in 2.1 Now I'm not yearning so much, the things I miss currently are mostly the fault of extension developers who don't bother to support SM. But as a heavy tab user, I think when the Firefox guys finish beating the bugs on Panorama/Tab Groups, I might begin wishing for that too. Pretty much the same here. Having the latest Gecko engine behind the browser component and SeaMonkey as whole got me quite satisfied. I'm now probably mostly interested in having the mail/news part improved, but I guess again, many of it is more up to the Thunderbird guys. And I like the Panorama/Tab Groups very much too, although I haven't yet got very accustomed to using it, running Firefox mainly for testing purposes. I would love to see it in SeaMonkey, one day. -- Stanimir ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Sun, 07 Aug 2011 20:29:22 -0400, /Paul B. Gallagher/: As our parents used to ask, If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you do it, too? Just because the FF people decided to rush things and churn out a series of half-baked products for the sake of keeping up with the Joneses, why should we ape them? (and /please/ don't ask me to keep my metaphors straight) Please stop spreading misinformation, if you otherwise don't understand it. The statement: the FF people decided to rush things and churn out a series of half-baked products, at the very least shows your ignorance, if not making you a complete liar. -- Stanimir ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 20:29:22 -0400, /Paul B. Gallagher/: As our parents used to ask, If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you do it, too? Just because the FF people decided to rush things and churn out a series of half-baked products for the sake of keeping up with the Joneses, why should we ape them? (and /please/ don't ask me to keep my metaphors straight) Please stop spreading misinformation, if you otherwise don't understand it. The statement: the FF people decided to rush things and churn out a series of half-baked products, at the very least shows your ignorance, if not making you a complete liar. I'm only saying what I've read here from authoritative sources; the only addition is my judgment half-baked, which reflects many of the opinions voiced here. If you don't like it, speak to the merits of the argument. You need not shoot the messenger. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Paul B. Gallagher wrote: Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 20:29:22 -0400, /Paul B. Gallagher/: As our parents used to ask, If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you do it, too? Just because the FF people decided to rush things and churn out a series of half-baked products for the sake of keeping up with the Joneses, why should we ape them? (and /please/ don't ask me to keep my metaphors straight) Please stop spreading misinformation, if you otherwise don't understand it. The statement: the FF people decided to rush things and churn out a series of half-baked products, at the very least shows your ignorance, if not making you a complete liar. I'm only saying what I've read here from authoritative sources; the only addition is my judgment half-baked, which reflects many of the opinions voiced here. If you don't like it, speak to the merits of the argument. You need not shoot the messenger. Please cite these authoritative sources. The Mozilla Foundation is leading the development of a better Internet. http://www.mozilla.org/about/mission.html http://www.mozilla.org/about/manifesto Just because you don't like it, don't spread misinformation. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: ...WTF is *this*? http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/mobile/ Not a SeaMonkey thing at least. Robert Kaiser ...wonder if it would work with SM, though? I find some Firefox things do. I like the idea of it, anyway. If you mean Firefox Home, which has been available for a long time, just not promoted on there before, yes, it works with SeaMonkey Sync just like with Firefox Sync, as it's exactly the same technology. :) Robert Kaiser Thought so. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3 - Firefox updates too often
MCBastos wrote: Interviewed by CNN on 07/08/2011 15:23, Rufus told the world: I'm rather surprised they don't charge for it - I'd certainly be willing to pay 99 cents for something like this, and I think most users would at a 99 cent price point for a useful companion to the otherwise free desktop browser... There's your biz model/revenue stream, team. Companion i-apps. Why would they? Mozilla has never charged the users for their products. It's just not something that goes well with the non-profit foundation status. I have no issue with anyone making some money if they make something I want...and that was a question elsewhere - how could one come up with a biz model that would allow the Moz/SM team to turn a profit and be able to compensate the team? There's one example - if they want to make some money first thing they have to do is ask. Nobody *has* to volunteer for anything unless they just plain wish to... 99 cent price point for i-apps which augment SM on the iOS platform - cha-ching! If they still want to give the suite away for free, they can still do that. But i-apps and complementary add-ons? Sell away - biz model 2.0! -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
[linux] Any America's Cup Fans here? - Unity Web Player
Probably OT for SeaMonkey, but I can't test w/SeaMonkey. First it was the Olympics linux users couldn't view the videos because they used Silverlight (Moonlight eventually did a partial). Now it's the America's Cup and they are using the Unity Web Player (Win Mac only): http://www.americascup.com/en/Events/2011-2012-world-series/2011-cascais-portugal/AC-World-Series-Experience---fun-for-all/ http://americascup.virtualeye.tv/ Amazing... Anyone know of a linux based Unity Web Player project like Moonlight was for Silverlight? Yes I have several virtual Win based machines that I can use instead, and yes I'll write to the the folks I know personally that are working ACRM, but it'd be nice to try any possible alternatives before I do. http://unity3d.com/support/documentation/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
WLS wrote: Paul B. Gallagher wrote: I'm only saying what I've read here from authoritative sources; the only addition is my judgment half-baked, which reflects many of the opinions voiced here. If you don't like it, speak to the merits of the argument. You need not shoot the messenger. Please cite these authoritative sources. I would happily cull a series of quotes from our developers and other experts, but there doesn't seem to be a way of searching the bodies of messages posted here -- or do you know a solution? For listserv and mailman lists, where I download the full messages to my local drive, it's a trivial matter to find quotes. For this NNTP group, I seem to only have the option of searching subject and author. Is it archived somewhere in a searchable form? -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Interviewed by CNN on 07/08/2011 21:29, Paul B. Gallagher told the world: MCBastos wrote: But, the thing is, with limited resources available, supporting those old releases means that the new release does not receive as much work as it needs. With Seamonkey tied to the every-six-weeks Mozilla release schedule, delaying release is not an option. So supporting the old releases is no longer viable. As our parents used to ask, If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you do it, too? Just because the FF people decided to rush things and churn out a series of half-baked products for the sake of keeping up with the Joneses, why should we ape them? (and /please/ don't ask me to keep my metaphors straight) I don't mind your mixed metaphors, but I DO resent your loaded question. It's cheap rhetoric device devoid of content. First of all, I reject the premise that FF would be churning half-baked products. This is simply not true. In fact, it has been argued that the new rapid-release schedule IMPROVES quality, since each release goes through twelve weeks of testing (Aurora and Beta stages) with *no new features added*, just debugging. In the old scheme, there was always the temptation to add new features with the product close to release, since the next release would be maybe a year away. And sometimes those new features *were* half-baked. Second, Seamonkey does depend on Gecko and other Mozilla technologies. SM 2.2 runs on Gecko 5. As soon as Firefox 6 is released, Gecko 5 stop receiving security and stability patches. Which means that any newly-discovered bugs on Gecko 5 (and therefore Seamonkey 2.2) will remain unpatched. So, yeah, we DO have to release SM 2.3 with Gecko 6, if we want to give our users a secure browser. We don't have a team of Gecko experts to backport new patches to Gecko 5. -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... Sent from my TRS-80 *Added by TagZilla 0.066.2 running on Seamonkey 2.1 * Get it at http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: [linux] Any America's Cup Fans here? - Unity Web Player
Isn't it sickening how the commercialized-proprietary OS vendors manage to manipulate these event-planners into excluding 10's of millions of potential viewers? Dumb and unnecessary. Forget them - they can sail their million-dollar boats in electronic- darkness at our home - no way I will jump through hoops to view their race. NoOp wrote: Probably OT for SeaMonkey, but I can't test w/SeaMonkey. First it was the Olympics linux users couldn't view the videos because they used Silverlight (Moonlight eventually did a partial). Now it's the America's Cup and they are using the Unity Web Player (Win Mac only): http://www.americascup.com/en/Events/2011-2012-world-series/2011-cascais-portugal/AC-World-Series-Experience---fun-for-all/ http://americascup.virtualeye.tv/ Amazing... Anyone know of a linux based Unity Web Player project like Moonlight was for Silverlight? Yes I have several virtual Win based machines that I can use instead, and yes I'll write to the the folks I know personally that are working ACRM, but it'd be nice to try any possible alternatives before I do. http://unity3d.com/support/documentation/ -- Thanks! 73, KD4E David Colburn http://kd4e.com Have an http://ultrafidian.com day I don't google I SEARCH! STARTPAGE.com Shop Freedom-Friendly http://kd4e.com/of.html ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
NoOp wrote: On 08/07/2011 08:27 AM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: WLS wrote: Daniel wrote: WLS wrote: ... Here is the link if anyone wants to view the demo. http://robhawkes.github.com/webgl-html5-audio-visualiser/ Clicking on the link got me Jazz sounding music with a blank screen and Done SeaMonkey 2.2 on Mandriva Linux 2009.0 on a HP 6730b laptop. Do you have WebGL disabled in about:config? Really even if its enabled in about:config, it could be disabled on your system. Please check about:support (type that into your URL bar) and be sure you have SeaMonkey 2.1 or later. Next scroll to the bottom of the page and under Graphics, you should see data about WebGL, Direct2D etc., if it is listed as enabled there but failing to work properly, we (Gecko's graphics team) would love to know about it, and have a bug on file. And if there is a difference between *us* (SeaMonkey) and Firefox (of the same Gecko version) in the WebGL renderings, we (SeaMonkey Devs) want to know about it! Same as Daniel. Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110731 Firefox/6.0 SeaMonkey/2.3 From about:support Graphics Adapter DescriptionNVIDIA Corporation -- Quadro4 900 XGL/AGP/SSE2Driver Version1.5.8 NVIDIA 96.43.19WebGL RendererBlocked for your graphics driver version. Try updating your graphics driver to version NVIDIA 257.21 or newer.GPU Accelerated Windows0/6. Blocked for your graphics driver version. Try updating your graphics driver to version NVIDIA 257.21 or newer. Ok looking at these results I see daunting: WebGL Renderer Blocked for your graphics driver version. Try updating your graphics driver to version NVIDIA 257.21 or newer. Which basically means that Mozilla's testing has uncovered stability/security problems with the Version of your NVIDIA driver, and explicitly disables the WebGL features at this time for your driver version. If possible update your driver, if not you are unfortunately required to wait for either NVIDIA to upgrade your driver, or Core Gecko developers to find a workaround that is both usable and stable. Seems to be the Windows Vista syndrome... fill the landfills with old hardware so that you can experience the latest greatest. I don't see how this editorial assists anything. Further, NVIDIA 257.21 doesn't work on Quadro4 cards. I would check what driver updates you have available for your NVIDIA card, if there are no newer drivers, I would suggest you contact NVIDIA and request/demand/whatever them to update their driver for your Card. I of course cannot speak for what they can/will do. But Good Luck. (I was lucky enough, as of a few months ago anyway, to have an XP machine with a supported Device Driver -- Have not tested on that machine in a while) -- ~Justin Wood (Callek) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Jens Hatlak wrote: [This is mostly for Philip et al. since Callek surely knows or can find out himself.] Justin Wood (Callek) wrote: Though the Why ... three levels of zoom I recall us describing the why many times; Us mentioning a bug #; and (recently) one of our newsgroup readers actually FIXING that issue with code and a solution that satisfied our requirements of a localisable Zoom Menu. Sadly I cannot remember for certain which SeaMonkey version is the first to carry that fix, (I *think* 2.4 but I may be wrong) AFAICS it's 2.5 (current trunk) that will have seven levels in the plus direction and 4 in the negative direction again by default. Current Aurora nightlies (to-be 2.4) still have 3/3. Note: When upgrading, you'll need to reset the toolkit.zoomManager.zoomValues pref manually (e.g. using about:config) and then restart SeaMonkey. I don't know which but one of the following bugs should be the one: 635179, 672146, 621823, 667529, 667525. Without yet looking at those bugs, I would say requiring users to reset a pref that we set ourselves by code, to fix this is inherently a bad idea. I'll dig through those bugs during the week, and plan to triage them. I want upgraded users to have this fix, without needing to delve into about:config for any reason! And lastly tabs, are not being forced on our users, they are being enabled by default. And the default menu orderings being changed to reflect that in some cases. [Users worldwide and across many browsers have a strong liking for tabs]. But any piece of our code that does not respect the tab prefs, is a bug and if we are made aware of it, we plan to fix it as soon as possible. [This means that if a tab is *forced* on you, not if we *allow* tabs to be chosen/used, fwiw] IOW, for things like Add-ons Manager and Data Manager (called from different places!), corresponding bugs need to be filed if not already present. No bug, no change. KaiRo already addressed the point I would have made here :-) -- ~Justin Wood (Callek) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: NoOp wrote: Seems to be the Windows Vista syndrome... fill the landfills with old hardware so that you can experience the latest greatest. Further, NVIDIA 257.21 doesn't work on Quadro4 cards. Not restricted to Vista; I too see nothing under Win/XP;SP3. Adapter Description ATI Radeon X300/X550/X1050 Series Vendor ID 1002 Device ID 5b60 Adapter RAM Unknown Adapter Drivers ati2dvag Driver Version 8.593.100.0 Driver Date 2-10-2010 Direct2D Enabled Blocked on your graphics driver. Try updating your graphics driver to version 10.6 or newer. DirectWrite Enabled false (0.0.0.0, font cache n/a) WebGL Renderer (WebGL unavailable) GPU Accelerated Windows 0/15 Similar to what I said to NoOp: Ok looking at these results I see daunting: Direct2D Enabled Blocked on your graphics driver. Try updating your graphics driver to version 10.6 or newer. Which basically means that Mozilla's testing has uncovered stability/security problems with the Version of your ATI driver, and explicitly disables the WebGL features at this time for your driver version. If possible update your driver, if not you are unfortunately required to wait for either ATI to upgrade your driver, or Core Gecko developers to find a workaround that is both usable and stable. -- ~Justin Wood (Callek) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: new 2.3
Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: ... It was my impression (and I may have been wrong), that up and till V2.0.14, these two elements were not bundled : that is, V2.0.14 was incrementally better than V2.0.x, x 14, yet there were no perceivable changes in the user interface. I suspect your impression is right, but I feel compelled to clarify just in case it is wrong. 2.0 was our feature filled release. Stable, etc. 2.0.1, 2.0.2, etc however did *not* include the performance improvements, *many* bugfixes, etc. It *did* include security fixes, *major* usablity bugfixes that were deemed safe enough for the branch (weighing pro's and con's) and that is about it. For the performance improvements, any improvements that affected web/addon compat, etc. you were expected to need to upgrade to a newer Gecko release. Just like always. -- ~Justin Wood (Callek) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards
Don wrote: Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward. ... Don Don your message here is a repeat of yesterdays, yesterdays (Aug 6) also recieved many replies addressing your concerns, please do not double post, and see those replies. From there we can move on with further discussion if need be. Thanks, -- ~Justin Wood (Callek) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
