[biofuel] dinodiesel vs. svo in the uk
From: Biofuels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: petrodiesel price in uk UK barrel is 205 liters - 45 UK not US gallons. *terry, a 'barrel' is a universal quantity of oil (petroleum), like when your read 'production in saudi arabia dropped by 500,000 barrels a day'. it has always been, and still is : 42 us gallons / 39.47 uk gallons / 0.159 m^3. *the 'barrel' you refer to, which i would call 'drum', used to be 54 us gallons (0.204 m^3), but now is generally filled with 55 us gallons (0.208 m^3) Petrodiesel is not crude oil *quite agree. the point i tried to make was that a barrel of oil has 159 liters. and that at 0.18 pence a liter you mention, that would mean 28.62 pounds per barrel. which is darn close to the spot price for oil. meaning that whoever refined the oil, stored it, and transported it to its final destination must be very, very good and efficient, much more so than exxon, shell, and the lot. 18p per liter is the price a garage (filling station) has to pay the supplier, before he (or she) adds around 4p profit, making it 22p. Add 45.82p fuel tax equals a rounded 68p. Multiply that by 17.5% VAT (a tax on a tax) equals 79.9p which is the average price you pay at the pump in the UK at the present. *which again coincides with my statement to the effect that in the uk petrodiesel at the pump was close to one u$s a liter (roughly 80 pence). *and if you compare this (80 pence) to the rapeseed oil price you quoted (was it 26 pence ?), i would say that svo compares favorably with petrodiesel in the uk. that i know off, rapeseed oil does not pay 45.82 pence fuel tax, and therein lies the tremendous advantage it has price wise vs. petrodiesel's 80 pence at the pump. Then there is the cost of the straight oil conversion to add on, amortized over the life of the vehicle. You do the sums. *i'd say that for an average 1 km/yr driver, using a 12 km/liter vehicle, and assuming a 40 pence per liter cost for rapeseed svo (because of vat, etc), the conversion would pay for itself in less than 18 months, and show a profit from there on of some 300 pounds/yr, assuming, that is, that petrodiesel does not increase in price, as it has had a tendency to do over the last 60 years or so. should petrodiesel go up, the profit for the car owner would be proportional to the petrodiesel price increase. *now, if besides this you were to add a alky/water mister to your diesel engine, and thus drop fuel use by at least 15 %, while at the same time de-coking your injectors and ring grooves, you might say that switching to svo isn't such a bad idea after all *and regarding environmental advantages(:-D) cheers, dick. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the difference
Also conveniently forgotten is the fact that, when D2 changed to ultra low sulphur diesel, there was a power loss of 5%. Wonder why? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the difference
Nice preemptive strike. Kudos. ;-) Ed B. . Mike, That is, by and large correct. There is a slight horsepower reduction when running biodiesel neat. Some would jump on this factoid like a cat on a rat, screaming I told you so, and other mindless declarations that berate bio-d. When they do this, they immediately neglect such minor details as enormously cleaner air, Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] petrodiesel price in uk
Dick - UK barrel is 205 litres - 45 UK not US gallons. Petrodiesel is not crude oil 18p per litre is the price a garage (filling station) has to pay the supplier, before he (or she) adds around 4p profit, making it 22p. Add 45.82p fuel tax equals a rounded 68p. Multiply that by 17.5% VAT (a tax on a tax) equals 79.9p which is the average price you pay at the pump in the UK at the present. Then there is the cost of the straight oil conversion to add on, amortised over the life of the vehicle. You do the sums. QED Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the difference
Thank you, Ed, but I was actually wondering why the whole world had overlooked the fact that there was a reduction in mpg with ULSD, Perhaps it was because nobody felt threatened by a better substitute? Methink the lady doth protest too much! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio Fuel kits for Diesel autos
Tom/Steve and all: On the other hand you do not need to make any, or nearly as much, biodiesel, so processor and supplies and lab equipment and time spent making are reduced or eliminated. I very strongly advocate the use of biodiesel and SVO as a synergistic and complementary system, with biodiesel as the startup and purge fuel. I'll be adding a paper on this to our web site soon, along with the thesis I've just completed on the topic: Renewable Oil Fuels and Diesel Engines As Components of Sustainable System Design. (About a week or so - I will post another message when they are there on our web site) It should not necessarily be an either/or decision. We use both biodiesel and SVO (or SRO as I stubbornly insist on calling it, at least until everyone wears me down on that one!) and the combination works very well to get the best of both worlds. ( Biodiesel in this system approach is a lot like using Virtual PC to run PC software on my Mac - it's there when I need it.) PS: Tom, don't burn used motor oil as fuel, no way I know of to process it properly, better to get an approved waste oil burner and heat your shop with it or send it back for rerefining into motor oil. Products of combustion in a diesel are not good. Ed B. www.neotericbiofuels.com From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 07:01:11 -0400 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bio Fuel kits for Diesel autos you don't need a conversion kit for biodiesel, but you would for straight veggie oil (SVO) Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: tom wiggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 12:08 AM Subject: [biofuel] Bio Fuel kits for Diesel autos I,m confused, why would I need a conversion kit to use Bio Diesel in my Vw Jetta? Also can some one tell me how I may process used motor oil into diesel fuel? Thanks, Tom Wiggins from Kansas. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the difference
Friction? ;-) Ed B. From: Biofuels [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 14:55:01 +0100 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's the difference Also conveniently forgotten is the fact that, when D2 changed to ultra low sulphur diesel, there was a power loss of 5%. Wonder why? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] What's the difference
Dear Todd, Thanks for your information. Hydrogenation sounds interesting but first things first. I live next to a fishing harbour which probably consumes a few million liters of diesal monthly. If I want to have an impact on this I need to be able to tell people straight what they gonna get or not. It's also an important consideration for costing purposes. For those who want to advantage of this, well, biodiesal is just good business. Mike -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 3:37 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's the difference Is my thinking correct?: If the energy content of most biodiesals is between 35 and 40 Mj/kg (Terry 4/27) Lowest heat of combustion is canola methyl ester at 39.9 Mj/kg Highest is rape at 40.54 Mj/kg The rest are in between D2 is 45.42 Mj/kg and #2Diesal is 45 mj/kg then holding all other factors constant one should get about a 10% lower performance than #2D. This would mean that a liter of biodiesal is not equivalent to a liter of Petrodiesal, yah? . Mike, That is, by and large correct. There is a slight horsepower reduction when running biodiesel neat. Some would jump on this factoid like a cat on a rat, screaming I told you so, and other mindless declarations that berate bio-d. When they do this, they immediately neglect such minor details as enormously cleaner air, greatly reduced carcinogenics in both emissions and manufacture (read reduced medical costs and human suffering), fuel renewability, enormously increased biodegradability, conservation of petroleum feedstock for future generations, strengthening the economic outlook of family farms and a herd of other side benefits. My perspective is that such individuals have either not thought the equation out fully or are highly selfish. If they keep their britches on for a decade while this industry gets off the ground, they will probably see biodiesel energy content increase, if through nothing else hydrogenatiion. This process breaks down double bonds and adds hydrogen to the mix, increasing energy value. A bit of an industrial process, that. Refer to ASTM standardization for data on cloudpoint, lubricity and coking. No one has really done much on the latter. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant
Marc, In NZ while containers are loaded by overhead cranes at the container terminal (wharf) most transport is then by speciallly fitted semis which have hydraulic hoists front and back which can unload and reload fully laden containers by lifting them over the side and onto the tray. They even lift 40 foot containers this way. Although I have never seen them overseas like this I am sure they are identical. I dont know what the weight limits are but there used to be a 20 ton limit including container on 20 foot containers so the roads they travelled over didnt get damaged too much when combined with the weight of the semi as well.. I think that limit may now have been raised a bit or maybe its just that people choose to ignore it and risk the traffic fines if they get pulled up. When I had a factory in Onehunga back in 1989 my neighbours next door used to have regular shipments of 40' containers which were put on the berm and the footpath outside right alongside a side door where things were loaded or unloaded. I know the 40' containers had a lighter limit which was about 30 ton off memory. With an experienced operator it was possible to put the container exactly where you wanted it as well. When loading the container it was placed almost alongside the door leaving no gap so nothing could disappear. All up there is no way I can see a small biod plant weighing more than 10 ton so I cant see any problem there. B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's the difference
Mike, Check out http://www.cytoculture.com/Biodiesel%20Handbook.htm#Lower%20Hydrocarbon%20Em issions Mariners would appreciate this text. Also, start checking within a 40 mile radius of your port and determine how many fast food outlets you have, everything from hamburger joints to donut shops to chicken outlets. If you can count more than 30, you can feasibly build a biodiesel plant of 1,500 gallon per batch or day capacity and release the fuel for under $1.10 a gallon US (pre-tax), still maintaining a $0.50 a gallon profit and an eight month payback on the original debt. Check your feedstock sources and get back to me. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Weekend Back Log
I am wading through and thining the message herd as we speak. I hope to be caught up be tonight or tomorow(my webmail is acting up). I will send out the Power Point File to all that have requested it as soon as I find out who they all are. :-) Have Fun and Play Nice Richard Hoard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] clean derrieres, comfy beds, and svo coking
From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Musings about toilet tissue One thing that I have noticed is that in the USA and in Northern Europe the norm is to clean ones butt with toilet paper. In the Middle East, Africa, India, and I believe in China, the norm is to wash with water as needed. Probably the healthiest of the two methods is to wash. not only healthier, but also much more pleasent. the bane of the civilized traveler that needs to overnight in a us hotel is the lack of bidets, either with or without a sprinkler. the japanese (as usual) have a nifty arrangement in which the shower head is built into the toilet seat, and can be moved in and out of position. i agree that the ammounts of toilet paper that could be saved this way are mind boggling, and wonder if this isn't precisely the reason the us and northern europe countries, all paper producing economies, don't promote the use of cleaner butts. vaya uno a saber !!! From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: fluid bed reactors/steam engines I wonder if anyone has thought of producing a simple steam conversion for Wankel rotor engines. brillant thinking, what ??? Fluid bed reactors are basically a vertical tube with a blower at the bottom. A bed of sand sits in the tube atop a perforated plate which allows air to pass through the sand but prevents the sand from falling past. thanks for an enlightening post, dana !!! what diameter x length tube in your lab unit ? how much longer past the sand is the tube ? From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil It is my understanding that there are two main problems with running diesels on SVO. 1. The solidification at low temperatures. Not a problem in sunny Mexico. and 2. Deposits on the injectors and ring grooves leading to inefficiency and possible serious engine damage. it would seem to me that misting a 50/50 mixture of alky/water in the induction of the engine, as matheson explains, would pretty much eliminate coking of both injectors and rings. as a matter of fact, i'm about to shoot myself in the foot, and try this, thus effectively curtailing my chances of becoming the world's next bill gates thanks to my biodiesel plants !!! but then i'll be able to flog-off the misters (not foggers) and make a killing there cheers, dick. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
I've had some thoughts running about in my head for a bit, and thought that I would pass them on. Perhaps it isn't strictly on-topic, but it illustrates how small changes in a population's lifestyle can have major implications on a global scale. One thing that I have noticed is that in the USA and in Northern Europe the norm is to clean ones butt with toilet paper. In the Middle East, Africa, India, and I believe in China, the norm is to wash with water as needed. Probably the healthiest of the two methods is to wash. Now, consider that there are over a billion Indians and over a billion Chinese. I can't begin to fathom the implications that at a rate of say one roll of toilet tissue per person per week, what would happen if these two billion people started using toilet tissue. The logistics of meeting the requirement of providing two billion additional rolls of toilet tissue per week and its impact on sewage treatment, paper production, trees for paper, energy use, etc., are mind boggling. Also, how much better it would be for all of these reasons if the paper users of the world were converted to washers! Maybe one person's use or nonuse of something like toilet paper doesn't make a lot of difference, but when it is multiplied out by the entire population, what a huge difference. To bring this more on-topic, consider the implications if the fleet mileage of the vehicles used in the USA, for example, were raised by just a few miles per gallon, multiplied by the millions of vehicles in use -- well, it would have a similar huge impact on total oil consumption. Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Derek, In the same vein have you ever thought how much water would be used if the whole world switched to the french way and everyone used bidets. Just think what a market there would be for portable water purification units and steam distillation units in some countries. Mind you if every car was fitted with a T.P. by-pass filter sure quite a number of million trees would die as well but what an improvement in air conditions in most of the worlds major cities. B.r., David - Original Message - From: dhargis1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue I've had some thoughts running about in my head for a bit, and thought that I would pass them on. Perhaps it isn't strictly on-topic, but it illustrates how small changes in a population's lifestyle can have major implications on a global scale. One thing that I have noticed is that in the USA and in Northern Europe the norm is to clean ones butt with toilet paper. In the Middle East, Africa, India, and I believe in China, the norm is to wash with water as needed. Probably the healthiest of the two methods is to wash. Now, consider that there are over a billion Indians and over a billion Chinese. I can't begin to fathom the implications that at a rate of say one roll of toilet tissue per person per week, what would happen if these two billion people started using toilet tissue. The logistics of meeting the requirement of providing two billion additional rolls of toilet tissue per week and its impact on sewage treatment, paper production, trees for paper, energy use, etc., are mind boggling. Also, how much better it would be for all of these reasons if the paper users of the world were converted to washers! Maybe one person's use or nonuse of something like toilet paper doesn't make a lot of difference, but when it is multiplied out by the entire population, what a huge difference. To bring this more on-topic, consider the implications if the fleet mileage of the vehicles used in the USA, for example, were raised by just a few miles per gallon, multiplied by the millions of vehicles in use -- well, it would have a similar huge impact on total oil consumption. Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Jerusalem artichoke
David Reid wrote: Will dig out some more information for you over the next week or so on Jeruasalem artichokes if I get a chance. How long are you in the Phillipines for? If you are going to be there for awhile it may pay to get some seed from the World Seed Bank and do a few growing trials. That way you will get a bit of knowledge and quickly sort out which varieties are likely to be most successful in specific or a variety of locations. I'm here permanently. Moved here shortly after marrying a local schoolteacher. Long term projects are no problem. Already working with my local Rotary club on their reforestation project that has been going since 1996 - 28 hectares of bald mountaintop now holding rain instead of shedding it. Now working on a livelihood assistance project to keep the trees from being cut before their time. Would like to know more about the World Seed Bank. I've found a surprising amount of information on the jerusalem artichoke on-line - about 16 pages worth. Still pretty sketchy, though, and all oriented to moderate climates. Best, Marc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mobile BD plant
Derek Hargis wrote: Yes, you're probably right. That was one of the reasons that I mentioned thinking to restrict myself to designing within only 20 foot containers. Then, I think a lot of the interior of the container is going to be empty space surrounding the machinery. I had hoped to move them with a large forklift, and would have to know the capacity of the forklift and to keep the total weight of the container with its stuff within that weight. You're certainly right to stick to 20-footers. Some are equipped with slots for the tines of a hyperthyroid forklift, but the ones I've seen handling containers in the port area are too big and heavy to be practical to take on the road. Furthermore, their ground pressure makes them mobile only on reinforced-concrete slabs (ordinary paving forms craters). The fiberglass and aluminum containers I believe would be lighter than the steel ones, allowing for more weight to be added to the container. My high-cube is aluminum, and it is lighter - which theoretically allows more weight to be put in - but it is also weaker. As long as it is handled with a lifting frame that prevents any supplementary compression load on the top of the container, no problem, but even loaded to half its capacity it was close to buckling when lifted by a crane with a regular wire-rope sling and no spreader. I have since reinforced it internally with a steel frame that doubles as support for bookshelves! My father-in-law and I are considering ways to add axles and road gear to it, as my next move is likely to be within the Philippines, and it's easier to load a self-mobile rig on a ferry than to arrange to move a container. The last time I checked on prices the 40 foot containers were around USD 2000 on the second hand market. I don't know how that would compare with the old semi-trailers in cost? I paid $2500 for my container, reconditioned and recertified, in California in 1998. My two semi-trailers (a reefer and an ex-moving van converted to a mobile office) cost me less than $1000 apiece and I resold them at a profit! Again, California. Don't know about other places. Here in the Philippines a semi would definitely be cheaper than a container, as the latter are in high demand. The empty containers are often picked up with a winch and a tilt bed and slid on and off of the trailer on to the ground. As you say, that isn't really an option with a loaded one. Right. The first (and last) time I watched that procedure I almost choked. On a related topic: anybody got documentation on continuous fermentation processes? The lack of tankage capacity in a mobile rig is going to make batch processing of sugars into alcohol very difficult. Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Lanao del Norte Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mobile BD plant
David Reid wrote: In NZ while containers are loaded by overhead cranes at the container terminal (wharf) most transport is then by speciallly fitted semis which have hydraulic hoists front and back which can unload and reload fully laden containers by lifting them over the side and onto the tray. They even lift 40 foot containers this way. Interesting. I've been trying to design something like that, as I've never seen it. I can't seem to make the numbers come out right for side-loading a full container, though - no matter how I cut it the trailer would have to be ballasted to resist the overturning moment, and the result would nearly double its loaded weight. Can you tell me where to find info on these rigs? Best, Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: methanol/methoxide vacuum concern
Hi Ian, Couldn't find your various postings at the web pages2stage, process,react1a. Please email those, I will see whether there is any problem areas. Thanks Gerry Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] methanol or methane CH4
hello. my name is john amory, victoria, au. my question is- is methane CH4 the gas version of methanol. If so, can methane be liquified back to methanol. thank you. ja thank you. Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant
Marc, No problem. You dont need ballast to counterbalance the weight as the container is lifted. The semi trailer tray has pull out arms that slide in box section channels welded under the tray which are pulled out and have fold down legs with feet plate attached which take the load as the container is lifted. Most of them even have hydraulic adjustment for the final leg adjustment so they can unload on to slightly uneven ground if they want to. They can unload or pick up a container in under 10 minutes. Even less if they are in a hurry. They spend more time doing paperwork and getting signatures than unloading. Somewhere there must be information on them although the majority are specially built and operated by companies dealing in container transport. Will enquire of Tappers for you but certainly dont think they would a Kiwi idea. Undoubtedly they are used in heaps of other countries. B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Free power (?!?)
Here you are guys, no more power bills, no more energy crisis, no more global warming, no more nukes... Of course this couldn't possibly be a scam, perish the thought - o me of little faith. :-) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ http://www.freelectricity.com/ Freelectricity.com Attention Homeowners! Register now for the chance to get FREE ELECTRICITY for your home! Remarkable 30KW Generator Could Eliminate Your Electric Utility Bill Provide Total Energy Independence Introducing the next generation Home Electricity Machine! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Bio Bug on its way
Hey! I saw the Bio Bug today in Philadelphia, PA . I saw at least 3 Biodiesel companies with exhibits, plus the national biodiesel board. The guys from Nevada were helpful. I downloaded the National Clean Cities Conference booklet at http://ccities.doe.gov and found out that Straight Vegetable Oil, (SVO), was not at the conference. So, I spoke with the Clean Cities Personnel and explained the concept to the folks. I showed the, From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank, book to folks explaining the concept. Ford, GM, Honda, and other big names were there as well. Propane, LP, CNG, hydrogen, electricity, and biodiesel were represented. I didn't see methane, but one consulting firm could be advising its clients about that fuel. The public was allowed to visit in the afternoon, but I was one of the few if any locals attending the exhibits. Another biodiesel advocate friend is planning to be there tomorrow. Personally, I found a local biodiesel refilling depot, but unfortunately I don't have a 7,000 gal fuel tanker at my disposal to retrieve it for my car's use. Seven Thousand gallons would last me over 300,000 miles and my car already has 275,000. Any questions about the conference, please contact me! Greg -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 9:06 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Bio Bug on its way Follow the Bio Bug as it travels across the country to the National Clean Cities Conference at http://www.pipeline.to/biodiesel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio Bug on its way
Yes, the conference was very cool. Liked the kronosport electric/human powered hybrids as well. The big rig was methane (LNG). got to crawl all over that. http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biobug.htm Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Greg Yohn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Bio Bug on its way Hey! I saw the Bio Bug today in Philadelphia, PA . I saw at least 3 Biodiesel companies with exhibits, plus the national biodiesel board. The guys from Nevada were helpful. I downloaded the National Clean Cities Conference booklet at http://ccities.doe.gov and found out that Straight Vegetable Oil, (SVO), was not at the conference. So, I spoke with the Clean Cities Personnel and explained the concept to the folks. I showed the, From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank, book to folks explaining the concept. Ford, GM, Honda, and other big names were there as well. Propane, LP, CNG, hydrogen, electricity, and biodiesel were represented. I didn't see methane, but one consulting firm could be advising its clients about that fuel. The public was allowed to visit in the afternoon, but I was one of the few if any locals attending the exhibits. Another biodiesel advocate friend is planning to be there tomorrow. Personally, I found a local biodiesel refilling depot, but unfortunately I don't have a 7,000 gal fuel tanker at my disposal to retrieve it for my car's use. Seven Thousand gallons would last me over 300,000 miles and my car already has 275,000. Any questions about the conference, please contact me! Greg -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 9:06 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Bio Bug on its way Follow the Bio Bug as it travels across the country to the National Clean Cities Conference at http://www.pipeline.to/biodiesel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Jerusalem artichoke
Try Jatropha and see what can be done at http://jatropha.org . Its a tropical plant that I believe will grow in Jereusalem. It produces an inedible oil that can be use as fuel when pressed. Greg -Original Message- From: F. Marc de Piolenc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 6:59 PM To: Biofuel List Subject: [biofuel] Jerusalem artichoke David Reid wrote: Will dig out some more information for you over the next week or so on Jeruasalem artichokes if I get a chance. How long are you in the Phillipines for? If you are going to be there for awhile it may pay to get some seed from the World Seed Bank and do a few growing trials. That way you will get a bit of knowledge and quickly sort out which varieties are likely to be most successful in specific or a variety of locations. I'm here permanently. Moved here shortly after marrying a local schoolteacher. Long term projects are no problem. Already working with my local Rotary club on their reforestation project that has been going since 1996 - 28 hectares of bald mountaintop now holding rain instead of shedding it. Now working on a livelihood assistance project to keep the trees from being cut before their time. Would like to know more about the World Seed Bank. I've found a surprising amount of information on the jerusalem artichoke on-line - about 16 pages worth. Still pretty sketchy, though, and all oriented to moderate climates. Best, Marc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Try 50/50 kerosene/SVO! I used new oil and kerosene and it worked in my driveway testing. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 3:29 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of our members is also considering using the glycerine component of BD production as home heating fuel and so will need to have this type of setup to keep it liquid. He has no room in his basement for the tanks and so is planning on building an insulated shed on the side of his home large enough for a 500 gallon tank. He has chosen as his project to try modifying a standard fuel oil furnace gun to work with the Glycerine component of BD production. Does anyone have any pointers having done this themselves. Theorys? thanks Dana I know Aleks was running his furnace on glyc from his original two-stage process (base-base), which gives thin glyc, but he said he stopped doing it because the glyc left a deposit which kept clogging the furnace. It's a problem that's worth trying to crack. Please keep the list informed - also on progress with WVO as heating fuel. Someone suggested to me that the glyc might best be used as a binding agent to make sawdust pellets for stoves. Todd mentioned mixing it with sawdust, but didn't say more - what then, Todd? A caution though - the National Toxicology Program has listed wood dust as a carcinogen, because of the danger of arsenic and chemical additives. http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/NewHomeRoc/AboutRoC.html Nominated by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration based on IARC2 finding identification of sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in human epidemiology studies and identifying wood dust as a Group 1- Known Human Carcinogen (Vol. 62, 1995). IARC listing based on increases in cancer, particularly cancer of the nasal cavities and paranasal sinuses, associated with exposure to wood dust. See also: Carcinogen list may include wood dust, talc http://enn.com/news/enn-stories/2001/04/04162001/carcinogens_43022.asp Burning arsenic-treated wood in a home furnace is a no-no. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant
Marc, Rang Tappers and there are apparently about 5 manufacturers of them. Have just rung Steelbro who are the largest manufacturers of them and who apparently export them all over the world so I may have been wrong when I said I doubted they were a kiwi idea. They arnt cheap though. A new one (Tri axle trailer) will set you back NZ$195,000 basic price and about $210,000 with all the bells and whistles. Today they virtually all do 40 foot and 20 foot containers combined in the one unit. A 20 foot unit would only be $20,000 cheaper so I cant see them selling any as it is so easy to just adjust the racks which hold the container. The system is different to the States and the guy I spoke to said he only knew of 2 over there. I have asked the guy there for a brochure which he is sending me so if you send me an address I can probably send it on to you. He said they have some old 20 foot ones (possibly ones that have been traded back on new 40' models I would imagine) that they could sell for $25,000 (Probably no market for them if being used all the time but probably ideal for the sort of thing you have in mind). Still I suppose even NZ$25,000 is a lot of money over there. If they work satisfactory they are probably well and truly worth it as the hydraulic arms are massive and thats were most of the cost would be. B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Americans feel gas cost crunch Poll: Almost 6 in 10 will drive less this summer
Over here in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania where we have road taxes unlike NJ, my wife has decided to change her driving habits. Now, she has asked me to drive the family to Church on Sunday in my 1985 VW Diesel Jetta, instead of taking the gas powered Plymouth Grand Voyager. My diesel prices have fallen, while her unleaded price is now $.10 more a gal. It used to be $.20 more a gal for diesel. I get 43-44 miles per gal, too! Her mileage is not worth discussing LOL Greg -Original Message- From: steve spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 8:02 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Americans feel gas cost crunch Poll: Almost 6 in 10 will drive less this summer here in NJ this is a different story. We go where we want/need to go, and bitch and moan at the pump, as we hand over our credit card. no change in consumption though. it's life as usual. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 7:43 PM Subject: [biofuel] Americans feel gas cost crunch Poll: Almost 6 in 10 will drive less this summer http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20010511/3311291s.htm Americans feel gas cost crunch Poll: Almost 6 in 10 will drive less this summer By Susan Page USA TODAY WASHINGTON -- Almost six in 10 Americans will drive less this summer because of rising gasoline prices, a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll has found. And nearly half said gas price increases already have caused them financial hardship. In the survey Monday through Wednesday, the public was convinced the energy situation was serious. Most favored conservation over increasing production. The poll bolsters the Bush administration's view that the nation faces a serious energy problem. But the preference for conservation could be a red flag: A White House energy plan to be formally unveiled Thursday has been criticized by environmentalists for emphasizing exploration over conservation. ''We assume significantly increased conservation going forward,'' Vice President Cheney, who heads an energy task force, said Thursday in an interview with USA TODAY. ''But even with greater efficiencies in how we use energy, in order to close the gap between expanded demand and supply, we still have to produce more supply.'' President Bush's job approval-disapproval rating was 53%-33%, the worst of his young presidency. Three weeks earlier, his job approval rating was 62%-29%. The poll of 1,005 adults has a margin of error of +/-3 percentage points. Almost everyone said there is a serious energy problem; 58% called it very serious and 36% fairly serious. And 56% said higher gas prices were permanent. An overwhelming 83% predicted prices would be even higher in a month. The poll also indicated: * 91% favor investing in new sources of energy such as solar and wind. More than three of four supported mandating more energy-efficient appliances and buildings, and a partnership between the government and automakers for more fuel-efficient cars. * Bush's plan to explore in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska was the only measure that drew majority opposition, 57%-38%. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Tallow
Look out for a high freeze point, which may be unacceptable to your Winter customers! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 6:16 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant
Our group in MN has also determined that a 20 cargo container is the best option for a mobile Biodiesel plant. We have been quoted a cost of $750 to $1200 US depending on condition. The semi trailers we looked into were twice as much and would have additional costs. The solution we have proposed to moving/loading a loaded 20' unit is to have reinforce the bottom/sides with additional steel and using a tilt bed trailer for transport. In reality we will likely also be using the trailer for WVO collection as well and so hope it will do double duty. We are planning to use 265 gal fuel oil tanks as our basic unit for storage and processing as they are cheaper than buying the steel to make them. Just advertise in any small city which has been hooked up to natural gas in the last few years and the response is overwhelming. A small electric pump to transfer remaining fuel oil and some ropes and pulleys are all that is required for 2 persons to pull units out of basements. Sometimes they are outside and are even simpler to load on a small trailer. We decline or charge to remove the really difficult ones. We are planning on modifying them to be used as our WVO drop off unit as well. A 500gal Stainless steel milk bulk tank is our reaction vessel. By stacking the tanks properly we think we can transfer heat from outgoing Biodiesel to incoming WVO and capture that energy. The 265 gal collection tanks do double duty as storage of WVO prior to processing. An alternative suggestion on transport of the 20' cargo container is to reinforce and build a subframe with rollers that can then be loaded and moved by a commercial roll off truck. These are very available in the US and very reasonable for transport and the dimensions of the roll off subframe is pretty standardized. They are used primarily for moving large solid waste and salvage containers. One of the advantages of using a low flatbed trailer instead of a roll off truck is that tanks can be added on top of the cargo container without going over legal highway height restrictions. It is fairly simple to insulate cargo containers...and regardless they are likely to be very hot inside so we have decided to set up all the controls on the outside and add a second door on the side toward the front to aid in ventilation and allow easy access for maintenance. Dana Linscott snip __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] fluid bed reactors/steam engines
I wonder if anyone has thought of producing a simple steam conversion for Wankel rotor engines. All the advantages of a turbine with none of the high RPM headaches. Or maybe a simple low rpm low efficiency steam piston engine with integral generator windings like the picoturbine. It would seem to me that one could injection mold one from high temp plastic and use a Teflon cyl. liner thereby reducing the component cost substantially. I also understand that plans for a low tech steam engine built of PVC pipe once existed. Does anyone have a lead on this? Fluid bed reactors are basically a vertical tube with a blower at the bottom. A bed of sand sits in the tube atop a perforated plate which allows air to pass through the sand but prevents the sand from falling past. Between the blower and the plate is a preheater, typically a gas jet, which is used to heat the sand to the desired combustion temp. A fuel feed is built in to the tube slightly above the perf. plate which is an injector for liquids or an auger for solids.A hydraulic ram might also be used to feed some solids. To convert to a boiler a second tube is attached to the outside of the first and water is run through the space between. A probe tube can also be added down the throat of the unit made up of a pipe within a pipe to increase BTU extraction. Our bench test units used shop vacs as the blowers and we used the water to measure BTUs produced by various fuels. This was the basic setup...and was very simple to build...but of course there were other considerations that needed attending to for long term operation. In practice one would turn on the blower and light the preheater (spark ignition). The blower suspends the sand and creates a vigorous mixing in the medium while the preheater warmed it up. Once the sand (fluid bed) had reached the desired temperature sufficient to initiate combustion of the specific fuel the injector or auger was turned on and the preheater turned off at which point the reaction became self sustaining. The abrasive property of the sand reduced any carbon particles to molecular size very rapidly. This created a very efficient combustion of the fuel. It also allowed us to add reactants to the fluid bed to control potential pollutants. The variety of materials we could combust was amazing and the ability to control combustion byproducts in this simple manner was a huge plus. At one point a large unit (several story) was constructed to power a gas turbine and produce electricity from sewage sludge and municipal solid waste. I have no doubt that even our bench test units could power a 10 hp steam engine using the waste glycerin component of biodiesel production. And the heat from not only the spent steam but also the reactor exhaust could be used in the production process with very little attendant pollution. Currently the cost of a steam powered generator is much more than the cost of a diesel generator which could be run on SVO and whose waste heat could be used similarly. I would much prefer however to use waste glycerin in an external combustion engine as the efficiency would eventually pay off and the cost of pollution of any internal combustion engine while hard to quantify against the large volume of the atmosphere exists. Yet another debt we will leave to our progeny. I hope this helps. Feel free to contact me if you would like more information. Dana Linscott __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil
Here are my thoughts for what they are worth: It is my understanding that there are two main problems with running diesels on SVO. 1. The solidification at low temperatures. Not a problem in sunny Mexico. and 2. Deposits on the injectors and ring grooves leading to inefficiency and possible serious engine damage. I would suggest that one engine be converted to SVO , preferably one that has the same number of hours as one that can be run on petrodiesel for the duration of the test. The engine on SVO should also have a second set of injectors which can be switched out on a regular basis...say at each oil change. The injectors that are removed can be inspected for deposits and tested for spray pattern irregularities. If either are detected they can be soaked in an appropriate solvent to remove the deposits and observed/tested to see if doing so removes the deposits and restores normal injector operation as well as how long they must soak to do so. This will establish the injector switchout regime. At the end of a predetermined amount of engine hours you may wish to disassemble the test engines and compare piston ring grooves. If there is a significant buildup in the SVO engine soak the pistons in various solvents to determine if the buildup is dissolved. A possible suggestion is that one might fill the cylinders and crankcase with solvent (petrodiesel?) during the season they are not being used for irrigation and avoid regular engine disassembly by dissolving deposits in situ. Now the disclaimer...these are only my thoughts and I have not actually attempted them myself. You may also wish to purchase a single cylinder diesel generator and run it on SVO for a few hundred hours first since this would be much simpler to disassemble and test solvents on and would be less of a loss if it failed for unforeseen reasons. Dana Linscott __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio Fuel kits for Diesel autos
What does a conversion kit consist of? steve spence wrote: you don't need a conversion kit for biodiesel, but you would for straight veggie oil (SVO) Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: tom wiggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 12:08 AM Subject: [biofuel] Bio Fuel kits for Diesel autos I,m confused, why would I need a conversion kit to use Bio Diesel in my Vw Jetta? Also can some one tell me how I may process used motor oil into diesel fuel? Thanks, Tom Wiggins from Kansas. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] fluid bed reactors/steam engines
Hi Dana, Got any drawings? Have quickly scanned what you have written and the idea looks as if it might have a fair bit of merit. Any other reference material as well? B.r., David Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Free power (?!?)
Yeah thats the snake oil peddler Dennis Lee at freeelec. Heard he was in jail for a time re confidence scam. He's a bit more polished now. No hard promises. A real piece of work. -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 7:06 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Free power (?!?) Here you are guys, no more power bills, no more energy crisis, no more global warming, no more nukes... Of course this couldn't possibly be a scam, perish the thought - o me of little faith. :-) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ http://www.freelectricity.com/ Freelectricity.com Attention Homeowners! Register now for the chance to get FREE ELECTRICITY for your home! Remarkable 30KW Generator Could Eliminate Your Electric Utility Bill Provide Total Energy Independence Introducing the next generation Home Electricity Machine! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.252 / Virus Database: 125 - Release Date: 5/9/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Cleaning oil drums
Relative to drum cleaning, or any cleaning for that matter, try Citra-Solve. It's a citrus based cleaner that cuts hundreds of greases, oils and petrochem products. Leaves most surfaces squeaky clean as a babies bum. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] What's the difference
Dear Todd, Excellent reference!!! It addresses many of the topics to satisfy my curiosity, etc... Here is Cape Town, we only have about 1000 fish and chip shops in the area. A couple of dozen fish processing plants and much more. Fish oil? I have completed my first biodiesal setup and tested. All went very well. I mixed up to 80% on a diesal pump and ran it for five hours without even skipping a pistons beat. It was nice to watch the changeover from petrodiesal to biodiesal. The smoke cleared and the smell changed. All in a moment. Surprised, though, at how much care one has to take to do a proper and reliable job. My advise to anyone is to keep instruments clean and don't hurry!!! My next step is to secure proper and reliable sources for the input material as well as build a small production (1000 liters/day). I still need to obtain proper batch testing methods. I am also surrounded by ocean and wonder if kelp could be used.??? Thanks for your help. Mike -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 9:12 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's the difference Mike, Check out http://www.cytoculture.com/Biodiesel%20Handbook.htm#Lower%20Hydrocarbon%20Em issions Mariners would appreciate this text. Also, start checking within a 40 mile radius of your port and determine how many fast food outlets you have, everything from hamburger joints to donut shops to chicken outlets. If you can count more than 30, you can feasibly build a biodiesel plant of 1,500 gallon per batch or day capacity and release the fuel for under $1.10 a gallon US (pre-tax), still maintaining a $0.50 a gallon profit and an eight month payback on the original debt. Check your feedstock sources and get back to me. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Free power (?!?)
kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah thats the snake oil peddler Dennis Lee at freeelec. Heard he was in jail for a time re confidence scam. He's a bit more polished now. No hard promises. A real piece of work. Oh yeah, I remember him. Thanks! Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 7:06 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Free power (?!?) Here you are guys, no more power bills, no more energy crisis, no more global warming, no more nukes... Of course this couldn't possibly be a scam, perish the thought - o me of little faith. :-) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ http://www.freelectricity.com/ Freelectricity.com Attention Homeowners! Register now for the chance to get FREE ELECTRICITY for your home! Remarkable 30KW Generator Could Eliminate Your Electric Utility Bill Provide Total Energy Independence Introducing the next generation Home Electricity Machine! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
My experience of trying SVO mixed in with the heating oil was cold wax crystal blocked fine filter (before the jet) and waxing of the jet, leading to misdirected spray and locking out. I will not do it again in a domestic unit. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
For economy, use both sides Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] energy modesty
Hello Jay Hi Folks, I am new on the list. Welcome! I am most interested in alcohol production since I don't have a diesel engine. As a daily driver I have a 30 year old economy car, a Rambler. I rebuilt the motor so the thing runs great and it is so simple with power nothing. I have also considered converting it to LP too but that is on a side burner. I am on an AMC list, and on another and in both places they are crying about the price of gas. I just had to ask them who's fault it was Americans drove gas hogs and consistently refused to develop alternative energy sources. Whose fault is it that we live so far from work in oversized homes? The increase in gas prices is a GOOD thing! Hey-hey! A rare voice indeed! Good for you, keep it up. Far out! The price of gas so far does not reflect the true cost. And I think I got a 25% positive response, with more minds thinking about it. I am still stumped on the whole economy thing. Do we really have to sell cars and stuff that breaks so we can go to work to pay for cars and the stuff that broke, or do we really just want to maintain a place for people to go during the daytime? We have enough food, soap, hot water, good books, and productive hobbies for everyone, so what's up? OK, so sometimes I forget what planet I am on. I'm on Planet Japan! Anyway, we both belong on this planet, but I'm not so sure about the people who tell us all this stuff. You have to ask, Who benefits, and at whose expense? The answers are usually the opposite of what we get told all the time. And fairly clear-cut. I think we could add consumption modesty to energy modesty. Do we really need more than just basic needs (which about 1.2 billion people don't have)? Or just want more? At whose expense? Quite a few billion people reckon it's at their expense. And who's telling us to want? And why? Could also be very much at our expense. Well, you're not alone. Rather rapid growth in the Voluntary Simplicity movement, along with homesteading and more, same sort of thinking even if it might come from a different direction. Thanks for all the great posts and keep up the good work! And you. All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Jay Z. Freed Carson City NV Keith Addison wrote: Fwd from [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Albrecht Kaupp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi folks, Wandering in between three homes and living alternatively in in the USA, India and Germany, and by my profession and believe would qualify as a Democrat/Ecofascist as defined by Dave, I see this whole discussion a bit more relaxed. It is a matter of being brainwashed for too long that high energy consumption and low energy costs have something to do with quality of life. I wonder why there are no riots in the streets of Germany at a gasoline price of 4 US$ per gallon with diesel,LPG and N-gas not much lower. I also can't see the industry collapsing, people starving, or quality of life falling apart because the country is highly energy efficient. Is the industry and economy in the USA so weak that they can't even handle US$ 4 per gallon or doubeling LPG costs. Here in India most of the professionals tell me every day that energy efficiency by itself won't help anyway. It is a matter of the sum of energy efficiency and energy modesty. At the end of the day a highly energy efficient state-of-the-art LARGE american refrigerator will use up 2.8 kWh per electricity while the inefficient Indian SMALL refrigerator will use up 1.8 kWh. Of course the Americans ,the Germans and a few others are madly trying to tell the Indians how inefficient this fridge is. The trouble is that such an advise is not very much respected and accepted from us, whom have totally forgotten about energy modesty bragging too much about energy efficiency. Albrecht Kaupp Senior Advisor Indo-German Energy Efficiency and Environment Project, IGEEP 21 Jor Bagh, New Delhi 110 003, India Tel +91-11-4603832-6 or +91-11-6864867 to 68 Fax +91-11-4603831 or +1-801-340-7905 (USA) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Hi Derek I've had some thoughts running about in my head for a bit, and thought that I would pass them on. Perhaps it isn't strictly on-topic, but it illustrates how small changes in a population's lifestyle can have major implications on a global scale. One thing that I have noticed is that in the USA and in Northern Europe the norm is to clean ones butt with toilet paper. In the Middle East, Africa, India, and I believe in China, the norm is to wash with water as needed. Probably the healthiest of the two methods is to wash. Now, consider that there are over a billion Indians and over a billion Chinese. I can't begin to fathom the implications that at a rate of say one roll of toilet tissue per person per week, what would happen if these two billion people started using toilet tissue. I'm rather alarmed by the fact that, in China at least, they're increasingly using flush toilets, surely the most wasteful device ever invented. And this at a time when water is increasingly being seen as THE scarce resource (not oil), over which future wars are likely to be fought (again, not oil). Along with the immense waste of soil fertility and resulting pollution. Truly insane. This in a country that's maintained its soil fertility and fed its growing population for 40 centuries. And they're far from alone. There's some background here: http://journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure Also I think toilet paper is increasingly made of recycled paper. Which is no reason to waste it. The logistics of meeting the requirement of providing two billion additional rolls of toilet tissue per week and its impact on sewage treatment, paper production, trees for paper, energy use, etc., are mind boggling. Also, how much better it would be for all of these reasons if the paper users of the world were converted to washers! Maybe one person's use or nonuse of something like toilet paper doesn't make a lot of difference, No, but it does make SOME difference, however slight - the ocean's made of drops. I think it's helpful to say that anyone and everyone can and does make a difference. It seems to me that things don't work very well unless or until they start working at ground level, at the level of individuals making a difference. But I know you also see it that way. but when it is multiplied out by the entire population, what a huge difference. To bring this more on-topic, consider the implications if the fleet mileage of the vehicles used in the USA, for example, were raised by just a few miles per gallon, multiplied by the millions of vehicles in use -- well, it would have a similar huge impact on total oil consumption. Yes! I think that's Dick Carlstein's point with the mister/fogger/Novak's baby. If you haven't picked up on that, by the way, it's here: Ron Novak's Do-It-Yourself Water Injection System http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me3.html Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Container Plants
Hi Todd I agree, I can't see it - well, not for the likes of us. Nor for farmers, coops, local communities. It's corporate stuff I guess. Keith, Took a look at the mobile bio-d plant. Off the cuff, it may have an application somewhere, but you're talking a boatload of infrastructure and cost to move it whenever - cranes, lifts, time to fit it all together. What would be the oil sources that would be tapped only on occasion that would warrant the mobility? When all is said and done it has about the same size footprint as what we've blueprinted for a oilseed facility producing 550,000 gallons of bio-d annually and some 9,000 acres. The only benefit I can see is the instantaneousness of it. But I'd bet you dollars to donuts, if someone called both myself and their outfit tomorrow and said they wanted a facility in place in 30 days, I could do it with a permanent fixture for less cost. I'm sure of that - wouldn't risk my donuts. That thing's expensive! It's computer-controlled and everything's explosion-proof. Hell, I would even bet your money on it. Not even at 10 to 1? (10 times zilch is zilch...) In my not so always humble opinion, this is most certainly not the wave of the future, but it does have some instantaneous qualities to it. Placement somewhere that has an enormous glut of feedstock that is killing a market or is posing a disposal problem would be the best scenario I could think of. And I think as a corporate demo to sell plant. Hey, I'm not knocking the corporate end of things (well, not this time!). But that's not what we're about here. Then, of course, there is always the military application - throw a raiding party in your least favorite country of the week and they supply the fuel to keep their own people under subjection. Isn't tropical palm great? We don't do it that way any more Todd, voters don't enjoy the body-bags. These days we just bomb them all to hell from a dizzy height. (But it seems they end up winning anyway.) We did consider something like this on trailers that could move from farm to farm. (No, not the military subjection part.) Didn't take long to stop considering it when we started thinking about the crew it would take to move several trailers, the tractors, insurance and maintenance cost - especially when most of the farmers have the transportation equipment to move the grain or can contract someone at very low cost. Just seems so much better to put in permanent infrastructure whenever possible. Seems like it to me. However, it says here: Mobile stills. In the late 1700s and 1800s, mobile stills travelled through the countryside of France. These stills, pulled by horses, visited the farms, where they would distill the products that the farmers had fermented. These mobile distilleries enabled everyone in agriculture to participate in the production of alcohol, which was and continues to be a great source of revenue to the farmer and to the government of France. No source info, I'm afraid, just a piece of paper, with a picture of one of the old stills (on two carts). In the early 1980s a company called Parallel Products Inc of Dixon, California, was running a mobile alcohol fuel plant, on a truck with a trailer. No idea what became of them. All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Information requires
Hello Barry Hi all, I know you often hear this but I am a relatively new member to the group who has been doing a lot of reading and thinking about biodiesel. Doesn't make you any the less welcome. :-) I have come to decision that I want to have a go at making biodiesel as the petro stuff here in Australia is about AUD $0.99 per litre ($3.75 per Us gallon). The funny thing here is that petrodiesel is more expensive than gas (AUD $0.95) even though the refining process is less. I'm sure you'll find other reasons once you start doing it: fuel independence, useful waste-recycling, cutting pollution, cutting carbon emissions, generally making your eco-footprint that much smaller and being a better citizen of Planet Earth. Do it, you'll love it - biodiesel's lovely stuff. There are some things I can't find in the literature and I hope the group can give me some answers.. I live in a typical suburban home on a 1/4 acre block with neighbours on three side. I am looking at using 'used oil' to make biodiesel as I have access to used oil from a local shop. My workshop is attached to my garage which is under my house. Will my wife and children hate me because of the brewing biodiesel odours wafting through the house? Will my neighbours throw bricks?? We used to make it in the kitchen, no problem. I know one guy who makes it in his living room - threw out the TV and installed double processors instead (stereo?), said it was more fun to watch. He lives in an apartment. Someone else who lives in an apartment makes it in his bathroom. This is all waste oil, including tallow. I don't think you have much to worry about. When I make the biodiesel how much glycerine per litre can I expect to produce? How much biodiesel can I expect from one litre of used oil? Have a look at Aleks Kac's Foolproof method: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html I read that someone fitted a catalytic converter to their car to get rid of the exhaust smell. Would the odours of burnt biodiesel be deemed, by some people, to be offensive? Check the picture on this page: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html It's not an offensive smell, and it doesn't give people headaches. If you objected to biodiesel fumes as opposed to any kind of dinodiesel fumes, then you'd be strange. But some folks is strange. The vehicle I drive is a 3.0 litre turbo diesel with a computer controlled injector pump and engine management system. As far as retarding the timing I can do none of that. It is all controlled by a little black box. Does anyone know if I am likely to experience problems with my vehicle management system using biodiesel? Users with computer-controlled systems have reported no problems and smoother running. But of course that depends on the quality of your product. Mike Brownstone's recent message was apt: Surprised, though, at how much care one has to take to do a proper and reliable job. My advise to anyone is to keep instruments clean and don't hurry!!! All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Any input from the group would be greatly appreciated Barry Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
For economy, use both sides :-) And for two-ply? Separate and then use both sides? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue
Gee Think it may be a case of oh shit - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue For economy, use both sides :-) And for two-ply? Separate and then use both sides? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Information requires
Keith, Thanks for your word of encouragement. Barryt - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Information requires Hello Barry Hi all, I know you often hear this but I am a relatively new member to the group who has been doing a lot of reading and thinking about biodiesel. Doesn't make you any the less welcome. :-) I have come to decision that I want to have a go at making biodiesel as the petro stuff here in Australia is about AUD $0.99 per litre ($3.75 per Us gallon). The funny thing here is that petrodiesel is more expensive than gas (AUD $0.95) even though the refining process is less. I'm sure you'll find other reasons once you start doing it: fuel independence, useful waste-recycling, cutting pollution, cutting carbon emissions, generally making your eco-footprint that much smaller and being a better citizen of Planet Earth. Do it, you'll love it - biodiesel's lovely stuff. There are some things I can't find in the literature and I hope the group can give me some answers.. I live in a typical suburban home on a 1/4 acre block with neighbours on three side. I am looking at using 'used oil' to make biodiesel as I have access to used oil from a local shop. My workshop is attached to my garage which is under my house. Will my wife and children hate me because of the brewing biodiesel odours wafting through the house? Will my neighbours throw bricks?? We used to make it in the kitchen, no problem. I know one guy who makes it in his living room - threw out the TV and installed double processors instead (stereo?), said it was more fun to watch. He lives in an apartment. Someone else who lives in an apartment makes it in his bathroom. This is all waste oil, including tallow. I don't think you have much to worry about. When I make the biodiesel how much glycerine per litre can I expect to produce? How much biodiesel can I expect from one litre of used oil? Have a look at Aleks Kac's Foolproof method: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html I read that someone fitted a catalytic converter to their car to get rid of the exhaust smell. Would the odours of burnt biodiesel be deemed, by some people, to be offensive? Check the picture on this page: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html It's not an offensive smell, and it doesn't give people headaches. If you objected to biodiesel fumes as opposed to any kind of dinodiesel fumes, then you'd be strange. But some folks is strange. The vehicle I drive is a 3.0 litre turbo diesel with a computer controlled injector pump and engine management system. As far as retarding the timing I can do none of that. It is all controlled by a little black box. Does anyone know if I am likely to experience problems with my vehicle management system using biodiesel? Users with computer-controlled systems have reported no problems and smoother running. But of course that depends on the quality of your product. Mike Brownstone's recent message was apt: Surprised, though, at how much care one has to take to do a proper and reliable job. My advise to anyone is to keep instruments clean and don't hurry!!! All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Any input from the group would be greatly appreciated Barry Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant
Try this web site www.energea.at mailto = [EMAIL PROTECTED] .This is an Austrian company that appears to specialise in mobile continuous process bio diesel plants that fit into containers. Attached is one of their brochures they sent to me when I enquired. They did not send me any prices though I guess they would not be cheap. Hanns Wetzel -Original Message- From: F. Marc de Piolenc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 7:27 PM To: Biofuel List Subject: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant Derek Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been considering ways to commercially produce biodiesel in India. My own thoughts have been along the lines of cargo containers. I want to get everything operational in 8 x 8 x 20 foot containers. They could be hauled about, set-up on site, etc. They don't need foundations. I love containers - in fact the 40-foot hi-cube I bought in the States to carry my household goods to the Philippines is still my main storage facility. Unfortunately, they have a big weakness, namely that you can't pick them up or drop them on-site without a crane. There are tricks for picking up an empty container without a crane, but they won't work at all with a loaded one, and put quite a lot of wear on even an empty one. With my 40-footer only loaded to about half its full capacity, I still had to pay a day's rent on a boom crane and watch in agony while they took five lifts to move the container from the trailer to my pad. At least in the USA, used semi-trailers with axles, brakes and all are cheaper than the equivalent cargo container and are easy to recondition. You just detach the tractor (the expensive part) and send it on its revenue-making way while working at a given site. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant
Hanns, If you could send the attachment directly to me I would appreciate it. The mailing list is set to strip attachments from the e-mails so as not to allow propogation of viruses. Thanks, Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Hanns B. Wetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 12:57 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Mobile BD plant Try this web site www.energea.at mailto = [EMAIL PROTECTED] .This is an Austrian company that appears to specialise in mobile continuous process bio diesel plants that fit into containers. Attached is one of their brochures they sent to me when I enquired. They did not send me any prices though I guess they would not be cheap. Hanns Wetzel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] portable electric power generators
throw a diesel generator on a trailer. what amps do you need? 220volt is probably best. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 10:57 PM Subject: [biofuel] portable electric power generators Do you know of any work to develop a portable biodiesel capable of recharging an electric vehicle? Let's talk. Stuart Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Information requires
see below: Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Barryt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel Yahoo biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:08 PM Subject: [biofuel] Information requires Hi all, I know you often hear this but I am a relatively new member to the group who has been doing a lot of reading and thinking about biodiesel. I have come to decision that I want to have a go at making biodiesel as the petro stuff here in Australia is about AUD $0.99 per litre ($3.75 per Us gallon). The funny thing here is that petrodiesel is more expensive than gas (AUD $0.95) even though the refining process is less. There are some things I can't find in the literature and I hope the group can give me some answers.. I live in a typical suburban home on a 1/4 acre block with neighbours on three side. I am looking at using 'used oil' to make biodiesel as I have access to used oil from a local shop. My workshop is attached to my garage which is under my house. Will my wife and children hate me because of the brewing biodiesel odours wafting through the house? Will my neighbours throw bricks?? probably not :-) When I make the biodiesel how much glycerine per litre can I expect to produce? 10-15% or so How much biodiesel can I expect from one litre of used oil? 85-90% or so I read that someone fitted a catalytic converter to their car to get rid of the exhaust smell. Would the odours of burnt biodiesel be deemed, by some people, to be offensive? not compared to diesel. are they dieting? The cat is a good idea, reduces NOx The vehicle I drive is a 3.0 litre turbo diesel with a computer controlled injector pump and engine management system. As far as retarding the timing I can do none of that. It is all controlled by a little black box. Does anyone know if I am likely to experience problems with my vehicle management system using biodiesel? None! wash well to remove methanol and soap. Any input from the group would be greatly appreciated Barry Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Container Plants
Dear Keith, Todd, et. al., Before I went to India for a look, I would have agreed with you. However, the roads are so bad that it took me five hours to travel a distance of 110 k (68 miles) on one of the official Indian highways in a Jeep going as fast as it could go, or as fast as the driver dared. I took this trip from the city to a farm. The farm is located at about 25 miles from the closest market to sell the farm's produce. This 25 mile trip to market took two hours by Jeep and stretched out to five hours when the trip is made with a tractor pulling a trolley of grain. Therefore, given the condition of the roads, and the apparent lack of desire on the part of anyone to improve them, I think it might work better to bring the processing plant to the farm, rather than the farm produce to the plant. I also think it may work better in that economy to have multiple small plants rather than one large plant for a given area. Thanks for all the feedback, Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Container Plants Hi Todd I agree, I can't see it - well, not for the likes of us. Nor for farmers, coops, local communities. It's corporate stuff I guess. Keith, Took a look at the mobile bio-d plant. Off the cuff, it may have an application somewhere, but you're talking a boatload of infrastructure and cost to move it whenever - cranes, lifts, time to fit it all together. What would be the oil sources that would be tapped only on occasion that would warrant the mobility? When all is said and done it has about the same size footprint as what we've blueprinted for a oilseed facility producing 550,000 gallons of bio-d annually and some 9,000 acres. Major Snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil
my thought is the startup and shutdown on biodiesel will remove such deposits on a regular basis? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil Here are my thoughts for what they are worth: It is my understanding that there are two main problems with running diesels on SVO. 1. The solidification at low temperatures. Not a problem in sunny Mexico. and 2. Deposits on the injectors and ring grooves leading to inefficiency and possible serious engine damage. I would suggest that one engine be converted to SVO , preferably one that has the same number of hours as one that can be run on petrodiesel for the duration of the test. The engine on SVO should also have a second set of injectors which can be switched out on a regular basis...say at each oil change. The injectors that are removed can be inspected for deposits and tested for spray pattern irregularities. If either are detected they can be soaked in an appropriate solvent to remove the deposits and observed/tested to see if doing so removes the deposits and restores normal injector operation as well as how long they must soak to do so. This will establish the injector switchout regime. At the end of a predetermined amount of engine hours you may wish to disassemble the test engines and compare piston ring grooves. If there is a significant buildup in the SVO engine soak the pistons in various solvents to determine if the buildup is dissolved. A possible suggestion is that one might fill the cylinders and crankcase with solvent (petrodiesel?) during the season they are not being used for irrigation and avoid regular engine disassembly by dissolving deposits in situ. Now the disclaimer...these are only my thoughts and I have not actually attempted them myself. You may also wish to purchase a single cylinder diesel generator and run it on SVO for a few hundred hours first since this would be much simpler to disassemble and test solvents on and would be less of a loss if it failed for unforeseen reasons. Dana Linscott __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio Fuel kits for Diesel autos
second tank, fuel lines solenoid, heat exchanger, etc. See from the fryer to fuel tank Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: tom wiggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bio Fuel kits for Diesel autos What does a conversion kit consist of? steve spence wrote: you don't need a conversion kit for biodiesel, but you would for straight veggie oil (SVO) Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: tom wiggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 12:08 AM Subject: [biofuel] Bio Fuel kits for Diesel autos I,m confused, why would I need a conversion kit to use Bio Diesel in my Vw Jetta? Also can some one tell me how I may process used motor oil into diesel fuel? Thanks, Tom Wiggins from Kansas. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
i have plans for a oil/gas multifuel burner I'll be posting soon. has a replaceable (cheap) jet assembly depending on fuel, and is made from a lp tank. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Biofuels [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 2:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil? My experience of trying SVO mixed in with the heating oil was cold wax crystal blocked fine filter (before the jet) and waxing of the jet, leading to misdirected spray and locking out. I will not do it again in a domestic unit. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Tallow
This web site may be of interest to you http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing bio-d from high FFA feedstock. I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could communicate? Hanns Wetzel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Information requires
To Steve Spence, Try this web site and its many links. There you will probably find all you want http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html . I am also from Australia and have similar interests. Are you from Brisbane by any chance. Hanns Wetzel -Original Message- From: steve spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2001 8:35 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] Information requires see below: Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Barryt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel Yahoo biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:08 PM Subject: [biofuel] Information requires Hi all, I know you often hear this but I am a relatively new member to the group who has been doing a lot of reading and thinking about biodiesel. I have come to decision that I want to have a go at making biodiesel as the petro stuff here in Australia is about AUD $0.99 per litre ($3.75 per Us gallon). The funny thing here is that petrodiesel is more expensive than gas (AUD $0.95) even though the refining process is less. There are some things I can't find in the literature and I hope the group can give me some answers.. I live in a typical suburban home on a 1/4 acre block with neighbours on three side. I am looking at using 'used oil' to make biodiesel as I have access to used oil from a local shop. My workshop is attached to my garage which is under my house. Will my wife and children hate me because of the brewing biodiesel odours wafting through the house? Will my neighbours throw bricks?? probably not :-) When I make the biodiesel how much glycerine per litre can I expect to produce? 10-15% or so How much biodiesel can I expect from one litre of used oil? 85-90% or so I read that someone fitted a catalytic converter to their car to get rid of the exhaust smell. Would the odours of burnt biodiesel be deemed, by some people, to be offensive? not compared to diesel. are they dieting? The cat is a good idea, reduces NOx The vehicle I drive is a 3.0 litre turbo diesel with a computer controlled injector pump and engine management system. As far as retarding the timing I can do none of that. It is all controlled by a little black box. Does anyone know if I am likely to experience problems with my vehicle management system using biodiesel? None! wash well to remove methanol and soap. Any input from the group would be greatly appreciated Barry Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] portable electric power generators
Hi Stuart and All, --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you know of any work to develop a portable biodiesel capable of recharging an electric vehicle? You will have 2 problems, first is weight. Finding a small light diesel engine is the 1st step. I suggest a Duetz( 4.5 hp) or a small Petter( 6 and 12 hp) depending on space availible, power needed. Your other problem is how to make DC to charge the batts eff. Using a 120 vac charger single phase because of power factor you get large current spikes that limit the power you can get out of it to 1/2 the gen ratings and many times burns the gen up even then. A couple of good ways around it would be using a permenant magnet motor as a dc genorator, 85- 95% eff, . This works as a starter too. Next would be a shunt dc gen also making dc direct, 80 to 90% eff. Another way is to use a 3 phase ac genorator and use an H-bridge diode setup to make DC, 80 to 90% eff. These can be bought new with diesels driving them ready for the H-bridge rectifiers, about $1.5k to 4K. A little more info on your EV, like battery pack, weight,voltage, motor, vehicle model, how fast you want to charge( with lead acid batts you can charge 60% in 15 minutes if you want to spend the cash), will it be onboard, will you run it while driving, ect? I'm using a car alt, 65% eff, cheap, for mine but its voltage is low, 36 to 72VDC batt pack. A larger one from a truck( 75% eff, could be setup to work eff at higher volts eff. They are 3 phase ac gens with H-bridges. jerry dycus Let's talk. Stuart __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Information requires
Hello Hanns To Steve Spence, Try this web site and its many links. There you will probably find all you want http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html . That'll tickle him! Steve's site at Webconx and our site at Journey to Forever are partner sites. And I keep saying that about his site. http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm Biofuel at WebConX I am also from Australia and have similar interests. Are you from Brisbane by any chance. Steve's from New Jersey. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Hanns Wetzel -Original Message- From: steve spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2001 8:35 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] Information requires see below: Steve Spence snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Tallow
This web site may be of interest to you http://www.biodiesel-intl.com/rohstoff_e/rohstoff.htm . It also is an Autrian company and they might give you some information about producing bio-d from high FFA feedstock. I am from Brisbane and have similar intersts so perhaps we could communicate? Hanns Wetzel Aleks Kac's Foolproof method produces high-quality biod from high-FFA feedstock (or any feedstock), and won't cost you anything. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Tallow , My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow, As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and inexpensive. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
Keith, Not to belittle your concern about water, its importance, and the likelihood of wars being fought over it, but I still tend to feel that energy in one form or another is of utmost importance. I currently live in an environment where life is highly dependent upon technology and energy. This has led me to appreciate that man can probably live just about anywhere as long as he has the energy to bring his life support along and to keep it running. He can practically make water as long as he has the energy to do it. My case in point. I currently live in Saudi Arabia. Life in the past was mostly nocturnal and by a few camel herders. Now, thanks to technology and relatively cheap energy, life is fairly normal here. Of course, it has its price. My house has two humongous air-con units that run constantly in the summer when the temperature outside is at 130 F and more. For water, the compound has a deep well that brings up this stuff that only someone with a good imagination might call water. However, after running it through a reverse osmosis plant it rivals most of the stuff one might get out of the faucet in the States or Europe. Saudi Arabia is the world's largest producer of desalinated water. Basically, the main product of the petroleum fields is petroleum for export. They have this byproduct called natural gas that used to be just burned off (!). Now they are using it to run their electrical generator plants, to their way of thinking, getting something for nothing. The electrical plants have been designed as co-gen plants, and as I understand the process, the waste heat from the electrical generation is used in a process of evaporative desalination. So, they get gobs of water from the sea as a byproduct of electrical generation. Consequently, in one of the driest of spots on the globe, there is plenty of water. And guys, please don't flame me on the waste of energy, etc. I'm not saying that I think this is a great idea and the way it should be. I'm basically stating what I have observed. But still, the water goes around and around and is recycled in nature. The supply of water mostly becomes a problem by being impure or not being in the right place at the right time. Energy use can change that. Therefore, I tend to think that of the two the most fundamentally important is plentiful energy. Derek W. Hargis [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Musings about toilet tissue Major Snip I'm rather alarmed by the fact that, in China at least, they're increasingly using flush toilets, surely the most wasteful device ever invented. And this at a time when water is increasingly being seen as THE scarce resource (not oil), over which future wars are likely to be fought (again, not oil). Along with the immense waste of soil fertility and resulting pollution. Truly insane. This in a country that's maintained its soil fertility and fed its growing population for 40 centuries. And they're far from alone. There's some background here: http://journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html Humanure Major Snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Information requires
Hanns, I am not sure if you are referring to me or Steve Spence. If it's me then I live on the northern beaches of Sydney. Biodiesel is not an issue here at all. I have heard virtually nothing about it locally in the press. About a month ago the Newcastle City Council, north of Sydney, said they were going to run their garbage trucks on biodiesel. The cost savings were mooted but not the environmental advantages. I don't know what its like where you are. regards Barryt - Original Message - From: Hanns B. Wetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 8:49 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Information requires To Steve Spence, Try this web site and its many links. There you will probably find all you want http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html . I am also from Australia and have similar interests. Are you from Brisbane by any chance. Hanns Wetzel -Original Message- From: steve spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 15 May 2001 8:35 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] Information requires see below: Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Barryt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel Yahoo biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 11:08 PM Subject: [biofuel] Information requires Hi all, I know you often hear this but I am a relatively new member to the group who has been doing a lot of reading and thinking about biodiesel. I have come to decision that I want to have a go at making biodiesel as the petro stuff here in Australia is about AUD $0.99 per litre ($3.75 per Us gallon). The funny thing here is that petrodiesel is more expensive than gas (AUD $0.95) even though the refining process is less. There are some things I can't find in the literature and I hope the group can give me some answers.. I live in a typical suburban home on a 1/4 acre block with neighbours on three side. I am looking at using 'used oil' to make biodiesel as I have access to used oil from a local shop. My workshop is attached to my garage which is under my house. Will my wife and children hate me because of the brewing biodiesel odours wafting through the house? Will my neighbours throw bricks?? probably not :-) When I make the biodiesel how much glycerine per litre can I expect to produce? 10-15% or so How much biodiesel can I expect from one litre of used oil? 85-90% or so I read that someone fitted a catalytic converter to their car to get rid of the exhaust smell. Would the odours of burnt biodiesel be deemed, by some people, to be offensive? not compared to diesel. are they dieting? The cat is a good idea, reduces NOx The vehicle I drive is a 3.0 litre turbo diesel with a computer controlled injector pump and engine management system. As far as retarding the timing I can do none of that. It is all controlled by a little black box. Does anyone know if I am likely to experience problems with my vehicle management system using biodiesel? None! wash well to remove methanol and soap. Any input from the group would be greatly appreciated Barry Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] methanol or methane CH4
John, Methane (CH4) is not gaseous methanol. Methanol is oxygenated methane re: a hydroxyl group (OH) replaces one of the hydrogen atoms in the molecule. (CH3OH) This is how it works for all the alcohols. Add the OH to ethane, and get ethanol; to propane, and get propanol; butane, butanol, and so on down the line. The location of the OH group on the molecule determines the isomer of the alcohol. For example, every one, I'm sure, knows propanol as rubbing alcohol or iso-propanol. The 'iso' shows where on the molecule the OH group is located. Methanol is a liquid at normal temps. Methane requires cryogenic temperatures to liquify. Thus when a vehicle uses CNG (compressed natural gas) as a fuel, it is stored in high pressure cylinders on the vehicle. Methanol can be stored in a conventioal fuel tank. However it is corrosive and leaches the lead and or tin out of the solder joints in the tank. It also does nasty things to the rubber components of the fuel system. Emmission components of methanol exhaust are rather nasty as well. However, methanol can be used in a fuel cell in place of hydrogen to generate electricity. Now if we can only get a small inexpensive fuel cell for vehicles... I hope this answered your question without getting too technical. hello. my name is john amory, victoria, au. my question is- is methane CH4 the gas version of methanol. If so, can methane be liquified back to methanol. thank you. ja thank you. Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Can Biod be replace central heating oil?
Missed the original post on this thread. If the question is as stated in the subject line, the answer is absolutely yes. Some precautions must be taken to deal with cold weather mechanics such as clouding and gelling. Other than that, the only other problem is the sludge buildup on the old fuel oil tank will start to come loose, as the bio-d is a superb solvent. Just be aware that filters will need to be replaced with greater frequency for a year or two, unless the tank is cleaned prior to introducing bio-d. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] portable electric power generators
How about a Little Deutz Coupe, instead, and leave the electric stuff at home? Ed B. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
