[biofuels-biz] EREN Network News -- 01/29/03
= EREN NETWORK NEWS -- January 29, 2003 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN). http://www.eren.doe.gov/ = Featuring: *News and Events LIPA and GE Wind Turbines Boost U.S. Offshore Wind Prospects U.S. Wind Power Growth Slows to 10 Percent in 2002 Maine Renewable Energy Brings Green Power to the State Massachusetts, New Jersey Revise Clean Energy Programs President's 2004 Budget Increases Weatherization Assistance New Combined Heat and Power Projects Mark a Growing Trend *Site News H2CARSBIZ *Energy Facts and Tips EIA Updates Regional U.S. Reports on Appliance Use *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- LIPA and GE Wind Turbines Boost U.S. Offshore Wind Prospects The likelihood of offshore wind power developments in the United States improved last week, thanks to separate actions taken by the Long Island Power Authority (LIPA) and Cape Wind Associates, LLC. LIPA, acting on a previous study, requested proposals for an offshore wind power plant that would produce 100 to 140 megawatts of power. The utility has identified its preferred location, a five- square-mile area about 2.5 miles south of Jones Beach on the western end of the island. LIPA is prepared to enter into a 15- to 20-year power purchase agreement for the power produced by such a facility, which the utility hopes would be operational by late 2007. LIPA would also build the undersea cable to connect the facility to its electrical grid. Proposals are due on May 1st. See the LIPA press release and the request for proposals at: http://www.lipower.org/newscenter/pr/2003/jan22.html and http://www.lipower.org/projects/wind.html. LIPA's wind power proposal is supported by a coalition of 30 environmental, civic, and faith-based groups based on Long Island, all working together through the Long Island Offshore Wind Initiative. See the Web site at: http://www.lioffshorewindenergy.org/. In Massachusetts, Cape Wind Associates may have improved its chances of building a wind power project in Nantucket Sound by selecting GE Wind Power's new 3.6-megawatt wind turbine for the proposed project. The huge generating capacity of the new turbine allows Cape Wind to decrease the number of proposed turbines from 170 to 130, reducing the impact on Nantucket Sound. It also increases the distance of the wind facility from shore. See the January 21st press releases from Cape Wind and GE Wind Power at: http://www.capewind.org/reporting/prele02.shtml#012103 and http://www.gepower.com/dhtml/wind/en_us/newsroom/pr.jsp. Meanwhile, another potential developer of offshore wind power, Winergy LLC, has been gradually narrowing its list of potential wind power projects. The company has eliminated three proposed projects in Virginia and one in Maryland, so its project list now includes 15 proposed sites that, if developed, would total 8,931 megawatts of generating capacity. See the Winergy Web site at: http://www.winergyllc.com/index.shtml. U.S. Wind Power Growth Slows to 10 Percent in 2002 The installed wind generating capacity in the United States increased by 10 percent in 2002, the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA) announced last week. Though the 410 megawatts of new wind power still represent a healthy growth, the results are disappointing compared to the record growth in 2001, when U.S. wind generating capacity increased by about 66 percent. AWEA cited energy industry retrenchment as one reason for the slowed growth, but also noted uncertainty about the production tax credit, which is due to expire at the end of this year. The credit provides a tax break of 1.5 cents (in 1992 dollars) per kilowatt-hour of wind power. Despite continued uncertainties, AWEA projects that renewed growth will boost U.S. wind capacity by about 1,500 to 1,800 megawatts in 2003, an increase of about 32 to 38 percent. See the AWEA press release at: http://www.awea.org/news/news030123cap.html. The early signs of that renewed growth are evident in Oklahoma, which is slated to receive its first large-scale wind plant. Zilkha Renewable Energy announced Monday that Western Farmers Electric Cooperative has signed a 20-year agreement to buy power from the proposed 64-megawatt Blue Canyon wind facility. The cooperative and its member utilities service most of the state. The new wind facility will be located north of Lawton and is expected to begin commercial operation by the end of this year. Zilkha will share ownership of the plant with Kirmart Corporation. See the Zilkha press release at: http://www.zilkha.com/news_single.asp?id=112. On a global level, Germany was the clear winner in 2002,
[biofuels-biz] Interesting Customer perception note
Hola, In talking with someone recently who is interested in purchasing some biodiesel, and interesting comment came up in our email exchange. He indicated that he was more interested in biodiesel made from crude VO than that made of WVO. I was trying to convince him that the WVO option was better due to the recyclable nature of the WVO, but he insisted that the CO sequestering was better of the more recent growing cycle. I had a difficult time convincing him that it was the same but oh well. He didn't even care about the GMO feedstock issue!! I guess what this leaves me with is a customer perception problem of crude VO vs. WVO based biodiesel. I am wondering why that perception issue exists and how to overcome it in talking w/ people who are not biodiesel geeks. I know that most of the folks at the Berkley BD Co-op are religiously pro-WVO BD and will absolutely not put GMO-VO biodiesel in their vehicles. So there is the dichotomy in interest of the different feedstocks for biodiesel. Any thoughts? James Slayden Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Interesting Customer perception note
James: side issue...how do people feel about the fact that much biodiesel will be coming from animal fats, especially in warm climates? Will commercial biodiesel need to be sold as veg and non-veg origin, aside from this WVO/SVO source issue, (which is silly, there is no CO sequestering advantage to new oil versus oil that spent a week in a fryer). Ed On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 10:43 AM, James Slayden wrote: Hola, In talking with someone recently who is interested in purchasing some biodiesel, and interesting comment came up in our email exchange. He indicated that he was more interested in biodiesel made from crude VO than that made of WVO. I was trying to convince him that the WVO option was better due to the recyclable nature of the WVO, but he insisted that the CO sequestering was better of the more recent growing cycle. I had a difficult time convincing him that it was the same but oh well. He didn't even care about the GMO feedstock issue!! I guess what this leaves me with is a customer perception problem of crude VO vs. WVO based biodiesel. I am wondering why that perception issue exists and how to overcome it in talking w/ people who are not biodiesel geeks. I know that most of the folks at the Berkley BD Co-op are religiously pro-WVO BD and will absolutely not put GMO-VO biodiesel in their vehicles. So there is the dichotomy in interest of the different feedstocks for biodiesel. Any thoughts? James Slayden Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Interesting Customer perception note
Sounds to me like the one that got away, I don't hear this kind of thinking very much and I'd say your customer has a weak or non-existent science background so I wouldn't try to approach it from a scientific point of view. I would tell them it was a very intersesting perspective that you had not thought of before and ask them how they came to that conclusion? The closest analogy I can think of would be the recycling analogy. Would they think it would make more sense to store used paper in a warehouse and cut down new trees to make paper? There's probably a better analogy out there...\ kk James Slayden wrote: Hola, In talking with someone recently who is interested in purchasing some biodiesel, and interesting comment came up in our email exchange. He indicated that he was more interested in biodiesel made from crude VO than that made of WVO. I was trying to convince him that the WVO option was better due to the recyclable nature of the WVO, but he insisted that the CO sequestering was better of the more recent growing cycle. I had a difficult time convincing him that it was the same but oh well. He didn't even care about the GMO feedstock issue!! I guess what this leaves me with is a customer perception problem of crude VO vs. WVO based biodiesel. I am wondering why that perception issue exists and how to overcome it in talking w/ people who are not biodiesel geeks. I know that most of the folks at the Berkley BD Co-op are religiously pro-WVO BD and will absolutely not put GMO-VO biodiesel in their vehicles. So there is the dichotomy in interest of the different feedstocks for biodiesel. Any thoughts? James Slayden Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: Ethanol Summit in Australia
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:18:05 +0900 To: Mike Jureidini \(SAFF\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ethanol update - South Australia Thanks Mike, and the best of luck with the Summit. Let us know at the lists if there's anything we can do to help. I'll forward this meanwhile. Best Keith Hi Keith, The Motor Trade Association (South Australia) has called for, at our request, an Ethanol Summit, which will be held this morning. As quoted in the invitation, There has recently been debate on the Pros and Cons of adding Ethanol to petrol. This has resulted in a lot of misinformation being touted through the media. This summit will, we hope, enable you to more fully understand the use of Ethanol as a renewable fuel. There will be 3 speakers at the summit: Bob Gordon (Executive Director of the Australian Biofuels Association), Bill Wells (an expert on ethanol who consults for CSR Distilleries), and Prof. Barry Batts (Chemical engineer). Organisations include SAFF, Farmers Federation, RAA (royal automobile association), Australian Institute of Energy, Energy SA (South Australian Govt. office of Energy Policy), Environmental Protection Agency (who happen to be responsible for the ultra-strict ULP specification that we have in SA, that prohibits the use of ethanol!), Office of Consumer Business Affairs (SA Govt), Primary Industries (SA Govt), Passenger Transport Board (SA Govt), Transport SA (SA Govt), and Mitsubishi Motors. Press has been invited but have not yet accepted invitation. No secret that there is a fairly obvious bias against fuel ethanol in this country. Will let you know (at biofuels-biz) how it all went. Regards, Mike Jureidini Biofuels Consultant Australian Farmers Fuel (SAFF) Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Interesting Customer perception note
Fiber of the future available today! Kenaf is a 4,000 year old NEW crop with roots in ancient Africa. A member of the hibiscus family (Hibiscus cannabinus L), it is related to cotton and okra, and grows well in many parts of the U.S. It offers a way to make paper without cutting trees. Kenaf grows quickly,rising to heights of 12-14 feet in as little as 4 to 5 months. U.S. Department of Agriculture studies show that kenaf yields of 6 to 10 tons of dry fiber per acre per year are generally 3 to 5 times greater than the yield for Southern pine trees, which can take from 7 to 40 years to reach harvestable size... More details http://www.greenla.com/recycling/index.htm - Original Message - From: Kenneth Kron [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Interesting Customer perception note Sounds to me like the one that got away, I don't hear this kind of thinking very much and I'd say your customer has a weak or non-existent science background so I wouldn't try to approach it from a scientific point of view. I would tell them it was a very intersesting perspective that you had not thought of before and ask them how they came to that conclusion? The closest analogy I can think of would be the recycling analogy. Would they think it would make more sense to store used paper in a warehouse and cut down new trees to make paper? There's probably a better analogy out there...\ kk James Slayden wrote: Hola, In talking with someone recently who is interested in purchasing some biodiesel, and interesting comment came up in our email exchange. He indicated that he was more interested in biodiesel made from crude VO than that made of WVO. I was trying to convince him that the WVO option was better due to the recyclable nature of the WVO, but he insisted that the CO sequestering was better of the more recent growing cycle. I had a difficult time convincing him that it was the same but oh well. He didn't even care about the GMO feedstock issue!! I guess what this leaves me with is a customer perception problem of crude VO vs. WVO based biodiesel. I am wondering why that perception issue exists and how to overcome it in talking w/ people who are not biodiesel geeks. I know that most of the folks at the Berkley BD Co-op are religiously pro-WVO BD and will absolutely not put GMO-VO biodiesel in their vehicles. So there is the dichotomy in interest of the different feedstocks for biodiesel. Any thoughts? James Slayden Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: CFL incandescent bulbs -- was: [biofuel] RE:californians 50%
Mark wrote: CF bulb prices are plummeting. 3 for $10 at home depot The last time I looked was last year about this time. Darn, thats a good price!!! I heard last year the next generation CFL bulbs where coming out thus explaining the plummeting prices I'd guess. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Damian Anderson wrote: Hmm. If you run a car on compressed air, does it not take energy to compress it? What do you run the compressor on? Gasoline? Check the archives, it's all been discussed here a few times. Also, if fossil fuel is from dinosaurs, is it not already bio fuel? From dinosaurs? Whatever gives you that idea? It comes from ancient, fossilized forests. Which means that, yes, it's biological in origin, but no, in the broadly accepted sense it's not a biofuel. Greg explained the difference a few days back: Some people might argue that oil, coal and other petrochemical stocks are derived from ancient biological sources, and so they might be included, but, true BioFuels come from renewable sources, that do not add to the burden on the atmosphere. Some people ask, How can BioFuels be better for the atmosphere, if you still burn them? . It is simple, the carbon dioxide (CO2 ), that is made when biofuels are burnt, recycles, back in the the plant material which they came from. So, fossil fuel is a finite resource, not renewable, it pollutes, and it raises atmospheric CO2 levels - the CO2 in fossil fuels was sequestered from the atmosphere over a long period, hundreds of millions of years ago, and now we're releasing it all within a century, overloading the atmosphere. Biofuels are renewable, not pulluting or very much less polluting, and the CO2 released when burning them is part of the current biological cycle and is simply reabsorbed by growing plants. There are those who say however that petroleum is primordial and that it was created with the Earth itself. Do we really know the origin of petroleum? I think the conventional explanation is satisfactory, despite various fringe theories which don't hold a lot of water (let alone oil)... not that it matters. I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. This is pretty thorough-going nonsense, see my reply to your other poist. It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. There's also a lot in the archives about this. You take a peculiarly American view that somehow leaves out of the whole equation the crucial effect US interest and interference, both official and corporate, have had on that whole region, and continues to have. Time and again the US has suppressed democratic initiatives there for the sake of Big Oil. Now when it starts to backfire on you you simply want to walk away from it all. Typical. Please check the archives before dragging up all the old arguments again that have already been dealt with. And please remember that there are list members here from all over the world, including the Arab countries, not just Americans - not even a majority of Americans. Keith Addison Damian Anderson On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, murdoch wrote: There is a discussion group for the air car here: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/mdiaircar/ I've always thought it was an interesting concept and I try to keep my eye on it, though they have not impressed me as really making progress yet in business. Perhaps they will yet. Their business model seems to be to franchise out their idea in some way. I'm not a fan of that. The air car was mentioned a few years ago in relation to trying to help Mexico City cure some of its air pollution problems (i.e., zero non-air emissions at the vehicle). As to the derivations of petroleum, I guess there could be some debate, but anyway, I just tend to think of all bio and other fuels outside of ground-sourced as synthetic insofar as they're made by man taking action to do some
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Speaking petroleum prices some USA radio programs were mentioning the Iraq crude would cost about $1 USD per barrel to pump from the Iraq oil fields averaging 600 metres below the surface. If true that would make some US/UK petroleum companies happy (particularly Exxon, Chevron and BP, Shell) but it would make China, France and Russia even happier if they get the opportunity referring to the profit margin. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fwd: Waste Oil Furnace
Dear Hiedi, If you are asked by your spouse and family, that think that you are neglecting them, they might have a point. If you live in a country govern by dictatorship and you risk your life and personal freedom, it is understandable that you will consider this. If you are asked by Keith, which is very hard to belive, you must be offensive and hurting other people. I have not seen such postings from you. If anyone else ask you, tell them to stick it up... Your postings are valuable. Hakan At 09:43 PM 1/28/2003 +, you wrote: I am sorry but I have been asked not to post on this site any more. Although the information on another site is not about the furnaces I was talking about earlier it is the best I can do now. The other site is about convertng fuel oil furnaces to waste vegetable oil. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altfuelfurnace I hope I did that right. Bye. Hiedi Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fwd: Waste Oil Furnace
Dear Hiedi, If you are asked by your spouse or family, that think you neglect them, they might have a point. If you live in a country govern by dictatorship and risk your personal safety it is understandable. If you are asked by Keith, which is very hard to believe, you must hurt others by your postings. I have not seen any such postings from you. If you are asked by anyone else, tell them to stick it up Your postings are valuable. Hakan At 09:43 PM 1/28/2003 +, you wrote: I am sorry but I have been asked not to post on this site any more. Although the information on another site is not about the furnaces I was talking about earlier it is the best I can do now. The other site is about convertng fuel oil furnaces to waste vegetable oil. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altfuelfurnace I hope I did that right. Bye. Hiedi Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Democracy was [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Dear Damian, Another skewed view about dictatorships and democracy. Many of what we historically consider as the the worst examples of dictators, was duly elected by the people in a democratic system. On state or country level, some countries try to apply very global dictatorship towards the world community. That is the true dictatorship, not elected in any democratic way and maintained by military power. I would be very careful in waving the democracy and social justice flag if I was from US, especially at the current times. Nor does US have a very clean history to be proud of. It is naive to believe in any absolute justice, even if it is a noble goal and a dream worth while pursuing. To belive that US have achieved some sort of near perfect status, is very wrong and extremely dangerous. I would not place them very high on the list of good democracies (within top 30), but this is a very personal opinion, as most of this about democracy. Hakan At 12:13 PM 1/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. Damian Anderson Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Damian, I think you missed one major point about 'biofullers': Biofuel is much much cleaner than dino-fuel, so people prefer to use biodiesel where possible. Even though it may cost me more to run my van on Biodiesel, I will be smiling at the thought of 99% less pollutants. Oil is dirty. Diesel is dirty. That's why people won't use it unless they have to when there is an alternative. It's a simple equation, not really to do with the oil giants.. Kind Regards Nick Taylor, Technical Consultant. SMTechnology.com -Original Message- From: Damian J. Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 January 2003 17:13 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. Damian Anderson On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, murdoch wrote: There is a discussion group for the air car here: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/mdiaircar/ I've always thought it was an interesting concept and I try to keep my eye on it, though they have not impressed me as really making progress yet in business. Perhaps they will yet. Their business model seems to be to franchise out their idea in some way. I'm not a fan of that. The air car was mentioned a few years ago in relation to trying to help Mexico City cure some of its air pollution problems (i.e., zero non-air emissions at the vehicle). As to the derivations of petroleum, I guess there could be some debate, but anyway, I just tend to think of all bio and other fuels outside of ground-sourced as synthetic insofar as they're made by man taking action to do some chemistry. -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] smart coupe
http://www.bigglook.com/biggauto/haber/haberDetay1.asp?id=943 _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Damian: Air car runs by expanding the compressed air, releasing cool air(nice for the passengers) http://www.theaircar.com/howitworks.html Check above for how it works! Need electricity or solar power to compress the air and use as fuel for the aircar. But wave your hands in the air, all over there is your renewable energy. Compress and expand, compress and expand It's all still air, there are everywhere! BioDiesel still needs to produce from another forms, either cooking oil or veggie oil. But the company is not doing big scale of production, so could not even experiment on the air car. Just like Crysler Damler bought GEM, maybe a big car company can buy the patent or the engine. They can build their own cars by using this new engine, air compressors are easy. Have one at home, but gas stations can also sell these compressed air at pump! But the storage equipment will be expensive for compressed air or the future Hydrogen fuel. (Following comments are from a friend in related talk. These web sites may be helpful to you!) Hydrogen for cars is still very distant, no matter what anyone says. The problem is we need a Hydrogen fuel delivery infrastructure, and it should be produced at the site of each station with wind or solar (or geothermal). It is also stored under very high pressure or in liquid form at very low temperatures...and though they have made advancements for the fuel container, it is still under inspection over the long term. The other issue is that pure oxygen that is produced can be VERY volatile. Pure oxygen is the more dangerous than hydrogen, and resulted in the only astronaut deaths in the Apollo program. They stopped using pure oxygen after Apollo 1 fire that killed the astronauts. The car companies want us to believe they are moving in the direction of hydrogen cars, but my view is that it is a way to continue to make the large gasoline and diesel machines for a longer time. You will see that in the next 20 years very few hydrogen cars will be made... In the meantime, battery advancement is very rapid and encouraging. Fully electric bicycles will easily reach 100 miles within the next 2 years, and hybrid electric vehicles have no limits to range. I believe the best sollution is a combination of NiZn primary battery, and Zn air secondary battery. With zinc air, we can have zinc cartridge replacement stations like we now have gas stations. Drive up and the attendant will slide the spent cartidge out and replace with re-charged cartridge. http://www.metallicpower.com/refuel.htm http://www.electric-fuel.com/techno/battery.html A good size wind generator could easily power the replacement station charging, and excess power could be used to make hydrogen. The hydrogen could then be stored in a metal, and I encourage you to check this very important company. All NiMh batteries are based on this company's patent, as is recordable CD and DVD, and the Uni-Solar product. The same NiMh battery concept is a way to store hydrogen in metal for using in a fuel cell application (instead of high pressure or liquid containers). I believe this is smarter for most applications. http://www.ovonic.com/ecdbkgd.html If there is no wind, electricity could be produced on site with direct natural gas fuel cells, which create much less CO-2 than gas fired generator plants. The traditional power plants are many miles from the cities and loose much power in transmission. They also cannot be turned off at night, so they sell the power very cheap at night to car dealers, mines, factories...who waste it. Fuel cell power plants are MORE efficient when you feed less gas...the opposite of the combustion power plants. This company is a very good investment, as they are the only ones with this size plant and supplying to Los Angeles Power, Japanese companies, and German companies (Daimler Benz is a major investor in this company) http://www.fce.com/ It will be a combination of various technologies. Fuel Cell power plants and Zinc based batteries I am almost certain will grow in popularity. Lead will continue to be a key player in the short term. I do not believe the vehicles that use hydrogen will produce the hydrogen on board from methanol or ethanol as the car companies have said. Too many complications and expenses with this approach...but I may be wrong if they can perfect the direct ethanol cell that does not require converting to hydrogen first. I mention ethanol instead of methanol, because methanol is poisonous and will kill, so it is better to have ethanol if possible. The most favored fuel cell for automobiles in my view is the following company, which produced already from General Motors. http://www.globalte.com The solid oxide is more efficient than the membrane type, and would require no reformation of hydrocarbon fuels into pure hydrogen, as Ballard is now doing for Ford, Chrysler. If you do
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
When UK and Sweden can join the Euro system, it pegs to the American Dollars. So we all have easier time for price reference! - Original Message - From: Ken Basterfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH A minor point, the Uk duty on biodiesel is 28.6 pence ( rebated by 20 pence of the standard dino d duty rate of 48.6 pence per litre) I make it that 28.6 pence is about 46 cents unless the dollar / pound exchange rate has suddenly gone mad. Ellis and Everard can supply methanol at £205.00 per 45 gallon barrel Ken - Original Message - From: Nick Taylor (SMTechnology.com) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:31 AM Subject: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH Hi Guys, Just thought I would let you know what the British government is doing to support Biodieselabsolutely nothing!! Currently here, we are paying silly amounts for our fuel, on average $1.30 (USD) for a litre of dino-diesel and $1.27 for unleaded. Therefore making your own fuel is an attractive ideabut there is one problem...as its cheaper to make, the government does not get its slice of the tax (to pay for their gas guzzling auto's!)..therefore they don't encourage anyone to mass produce. As an example, my company has applied for a licence to make its own biodiesel for our 4 VW Caddy vans. Not a problem we were told by Customs and Exciseas long as you pay the government $0.76 in tax per litre used alone!. Once you add that to the cost of small scale production, its going to cost us more than to use dino-diesel.we are forced to use dino-diesel, and they still get their money. I'm embarrassed that the UK is so far behind everyone else in Europe...after spending 4 months in Sweden last year, I realised that the UK is a dinosaur itself, stuck in the industrial revolution of 100 years ago (we are still struggling with broadband internet outside of the big cities!!!). ..But don't worry folks...I'm going to be running my van on biodiesel once I've got the hang of making it!! Stuff the government! If anyone is interested, here's what's in the news in the UK: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/england/1750734.stm One last thing...is there anyone in this group from the South West of England that can recommend a good methanol supplier??? Nick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Even the gasoline price is cheaper here than in Europe, there are hidden costs! Must free the hands of the decision makers to commit more military involvement in Middle East. Besides the $32/barrel we are paying for the crude, according the national accounting office. Adding the cost of the military build up to protect the oil resources, the final price tag is $126/barrel. When you go to gas stations, you are paying more than the price. Some other tax money had slipped out of your pockets and go to the middle east. Besides the evil master Bin Laden said he vows get American Air bases out of Saudi Arabia. If we do not need that many oil, maybe we can finally give him what he wants. Corn oil or other types of renewable energy is like Green Gold at home, why bother to tap on somebody's pots of Black Gold. Removing Iraqi leader is not the only solution, we are paying the money for these unstable leaders to buy weapons of mass destruction. You fight him then pay for his oil, you give him the money to kick you back. Drain his financial resources, then maybe we do need those weapon inspection or waging a war. It's all our money that is buying gasoline that sustains this strong man in Iraq! We create our own monster! Brave men and women out there to protect oil resources, just because we need that many! If we could stop dependence on imported oil, those brave soldiers can come home to their loved ones. Blood will be on our hands, should find a way to switch to BioDiesel or other transportation! It's better than just yelling anti-war slogans, the government must maintain presence in Middle East. Unless we don't need that many oil, then we are the guilty ones! - Original Message - From: Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. Damian Anderson On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, murdoch wrote: There is a discussion group for the air car here: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/mdiaircar/ I've always thought it was an interesting concept and I try to keep my eye on it, though they have not impressed me as really making progress yet in business. Perhaps they will yet. Their business model seems to be to franchise out their idea in some way. I'm not a fan of that. The air car was mentioned a few years ago in relation to trying to help Mexico City cure some of its air pollution problems (i.e., zero non-air emissions at the vehicle). As to the derivations of petroleum, I guess there could be some debate, but anyway, I just tend to think of all bio and other fuels outside of ground-sourced as synthetic insofar as they're made by man taking action to do some chemistry. -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to:
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
It's maybe the Bush administration's revitalizing economy plan, by bring in cheaper crude oil. The oil companies can keep their profit margin or even higher. And the consumers will be happy to have cheaper gasoline, and can give some incentives and revitalize the economy! It seem to be a win-win solution. But there are hidden costs again, military expenses and somebody will have to die or get hurt! The military or civilian of both infight nations, probably more on Iraqi side! Bombing is planned and as other wars, warning Bagdad residents to leave will be issued! People still will die then their family or friends will be the next suicide bombers, the cycle will go on and on! But if the Iraqi really has weapons of mass destruction, military action is the short term solution. Stop driving gasoline cars is the long term solution. But there is no energy policy from the government? When you need government, they are not there! We need a market stardard for EV! Even in the very small EV world, Toyota/Honda/GM/Fords all have their own chargers. If we are going to build that electric station, guess how many different kinds of chargers will be needed for one station? 5 of them! Toyota/Honda/GM/Fords require 220V and Gem is 110V, then you can be qualified to open an electric station. They said they tested and decided to take Ford's charger as industrial standard, but that is so many steps behind the EV sales. Same as the BioDiesel industry, need standard and incentive to make conversion. There are famer states that need to sell their corns, anybody is helping them? Why only the oil companies get all the attention? Bio-Diesel or Ethanol will be a good replacement if the government is promoting them, creating more jobs for American famers and Diesel car sellers or relative business. When you need the government to make some plans to promote alternative energy, you find out they are too busy for war! - Original Message - From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH Speaking petroleum prices some USA radio programs were mentioning the Iraq crude would cost about $1 USD per barrel to pump from the Iraq oil fields averaging 600 metres below the surface. If true that would make some US/UK petroleum companies happy (particularly Exxon, Chevron and BP, Shell) but it would make China, France and Russia even happier if they get the opportunity referring to the profit margin. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fwd: Waste Oil Furnace
Hi Hakan Dear Hiedi, If you are asked by your spouse or family, that think you neglect them, they might have a point. If you live in a country govern by dictatorship and risk your personal safety it is understandable. If you are asked by Keith, which is very hard to believe, you must hurt others by your postings. I have not seen any such postings from you. No, it had nothing to do with me, that's why I've asked her please to explain it. It seems quite a few people are puzzled. Best Keith If you are asked by anyone else, tell them to stick it up Your postings are valuable. Hakan At 09:43 PM 1/28/2003 +, you wrote: I am sorry but I have been asked not to post on this site any more. Although the information on another site is not about the furnaces I was talking about earlier it is the best I can do now. The other site is about convertng fuel oil furnaces to waste vegetable oil. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altfuelfurnace I hope I did that right. Bye. Hiedi Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] EREN Network News -- 01/29/03
= EREN NETWORK NEWS -- January 29, 2003 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN). http://www.eren.doe.gov/ = Featuring: *News and Events LIPA and GE Wind Turbines Boost U.S. Offshore Wind Prospects U.S. Wind Power Growth Slows to 10 Percent in 2002 Maine Renewable Energy Brings Green Power to the State Massachusetts, New Jersey Revise Clean Energy Programs President's 2004 Budget Increases Weatherization Assistance New Combined Heat and Power Projects Mark a Growing Trend *Site News H2CARSBIZ *Energy Facts and Tips EIA Updates Regional U.S. Reports on Appliance Use *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- LIPA and GE Wind Turbines Boost U.S. Offshore Wind Prospects The likelihood of offshore wind power developments in the United States improved last week, thanks to separate actions taken by the Long Island Power Authority (LIPA) and Cape Wind Associates, LLC. LIPA, acting on a previous study, requested proposals for an offshore wind power plant that would produce 100 to 140 megawatts of power. The utility has identified its preferred location, a five- square-mile area about 2.5 miles south of Jones Beach on the western end of the island. LIPA is prepared to enter into a 15- to 20-year power purchase agreement for the power produced by such a facility, which the utility hopes would be operational by late 2007. LIPA would also build the undersea cable to connect the facility to its electrical grid. Proposals are due on May 1st. See the LIPA press release and the request for proposals at: http://www.lipower.org/newscenter/pr/2003/jan22.html and http://www.lipower.org/projects/wind.html. LIPA's wind power proposal is supported by a coalition of 30 environmental, civic, and faith-based groups based on Long Island, all working together through the Long Island Offshore Wind Initiative. See the Web site at: http://www.lioffshorewindenergy.org/. In Massachusetts, Cape Wind Associates may have improved its chances of building a wind power project in Nantucket Sound by selecting GE Wind Power's new 3.6-megawatt wind turbine for the proposed project. The huge generating capacity of the new turbine allows Cape Wind to decrease the number of proposed turbines from 170 to 130, reducing the impact on Nantucket Sound. It also increases the distance of the wind facility from shore. See the January 21st press releases from Cape Wind and GE Wind Power at: http://www.capewind.org/reporting/prele02.shtml#012103 and http://www.gepower.com/dhtml/wind/en_us/newsroom/pr.jsp. Meanwhile, another potential developer of offshore wind power, Winergy LLC, has been gradually narrowing its list of potential wind power projects. The company has eliminated three proposed projects in Virginia and one in Maryland, so its project list now includes 15 proposed sites that, if developed, would total 8,931 megawatts of generating capacity. See the Winergy Web site at: http://www.winergyllc.com/index.shtml. U.S. Wind Power Growth Slows to 10 Percent in 2002 The installed wind generating capacity in the United States increased by 10 percent in 2002, the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA) announced last week. Though the 410 megawatts of new wind power still represent a healthy growth, the results are disappointing compared to the record growth in 2001, when U.S. wind generating capacity increased by about 66 percent. AWEA cited energy industry retrenchment as one reason for the slowed growth, but also noted uncertainty about the production tax credit, which is due to expire at the end of this year. The credit provides a tax break of 1.5 cents (in 1992 dollars) per kilowatt-hour of wind power. Despite continued uncertainties, AWEA projects that renewed growth will boost U.S. wind capacity by about 1,500 to 1,800 megawatts in 2003, an increase of about 32 to 38 percent. See the AWEA press release at: http://www.awea.org/news/news030123cap.html. The early signs of that renewed growth are evident in Oklahoma, which is slated to receive its first large-scale wind plant. Zilkha Renewable Energy announced Monday that Western Farmers Electric Cooperative has signed a 20-year agreement to buy power from the proposed 64-megawatt Blue Canyon wind facility. The cooperative and its member utilities service most of the state. The new wind facility will be located north of Lawton and is expected to begin commercial operation by the end of this year. Zilkha will share ownership of the plant with Kirmart Corporation. See the Zilkha press release at: http://www.zilkha.com/news_single.asp?id=112. On a global level, Germany was the clear winner in 2002,
Re: CFL incandescent bulbs -- was: [biofuel] RE:californians 50%
I just recently got a pack of 5 CF 60W replacements (twist type) at Costco for ~$9, which would mean they're about $2 bucks a pop. Not bad methinnks. They also had a 3 pack of 100W replactments for the same. What I am still searching for is a good priced Full Spectrum 100W replacement CF. They are quite expensive right now at ~$20 a pop. Don't want to get SAD in the wintertime. James Slayden On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, MH wrote: Mark wrote: CF bulb prices are plummeting. 3 for $10 at home depot The last time I looked was last year about this time. Darn, thats a good price!!! I heard last year the next generation CFL bulbs where coming out thus explaining the plummeting prices I'd guess. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HGTV Dream Home Giveaway Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Democracy was [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Hakan, If it is a government of the people, by the people, for the people, then it is a democracy. A society in which the people do not have the option to change their government if they don't like it is not a democracy. What democracies are there in the Middle East? I would count Israel and Turkey, but the others are for the most part desert satrapies. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to disagree with you. Ah, the joys of free speech! ;-) By the way, what did you think of George Bush's proposal yesterday to invest $1.2 billion towards research in developing a hydrogen powered car? That would not be biofuel, but it would be renewable and not make our societies dependent on corrupt dictatorships. I would like to see us develop nuclear fusion power, such as our sun runs on. It has run for billions of years on the nuclear fusion of hydrogen into helium. In that case, energy would become unbelievably cheap, and we could forget about this scarcity mentality that requires us to conserve energy. It is like conserving air! Free energy occurs in abundance in nature, and we need to learn to harness it, or imitate it. One question of economic significance would be how to generate hydrogen cheaply. Damian On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: Dear Damian, Another skewed view about dictatorships and democracy. Many of what we historically consider as the the worst examples of dictators, was duly elected by the people in a democratic system. On state or country level, some countries try to apply very global dictatorship towards the world community. That is the true dictatorship, not elected in any democratic way and maintained by military power. I would be very careful in waving the democracy and social justice flag if I was from US, especially at the current times. Nor does US have a very clean history to be proud of. It is naive to believe in any absolute justice, even if it is a noble goal and a dream worth while pursuing. To belive that US have achieved some sort of near perfect status, is very wrong and extremely dangerous. I would not place them very high on the list of good democracies (within top 30), but this is a very personal opinion, as most of this about democracy. Hakan At 12:13 PM 1/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. Damian Anderson -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Nick, Do you have scientific data to show that biofuel is cleaner than petroleum? Does it not depend on the engine? My car is certified as an Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle. I guess if you are running a 20 year old gas guzzler, it may run in a dirty way, but good modern engines are very clean. Damian On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Nick Taylor (SMTechnology.com) wrote: Damian, I think you missed one major point about 'biofullers': Biofuel is much much cleaner than dino-fuel, so people prefer to use biodiesel where possible. Even though it may cost me more to run my van on Biodiesel, I will be smiling at the thought of 99% less pollutants. Oil is dirty. Diesel is dirty. That's why people won't use it unless they have to when there is an alternative. It's a simple equation, not really to do with the oil giants.. Kind Regards Nick Taylor, Technical Consultant. SMTechnology.com -Original Message- From: Damian J. Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 January 2003 17:13 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. Damian Anderson -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
If it were sold as individual gallons in Costco gasoline wouldn't be $1.50 a gallon. Kirk -Original Message- From: Damian J. Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:13 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. Damian Anderson Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Some people might argue that oil, coal and other petrochemical stocks are derived from ancient biological sources, and so they might be included, but, true BioFuels come from renewable sources, that do not add to the burden on the atmosphere. Some people ask, How can BioFuels be better for the atmosphere, if you still burn them? . It is simple, the carbon dioxide (CO2 ), that is made when biofuels are burnt, recycles, back in the the plant material which they came from. So, fossil fuel is a finite resource, not renewable, it pollutes, and it raises atmospheric CO2 levels - the CO2 in fossil fuels was sequestered from the atmosphere over a long period, hundreds of millions of years ago, and now we're releasing it all within a century, overloading the atmosphere. Biofuels are renewable, not pulluting or very much less polluting, and the CO2 released when burning them is part of the current biological cycle and is simply reabsorbed by growing plants. Then perhaps if you are concerned about CO2, the solution would be to plant trees, and set aside land for parks which can serve to absorb CO2 and produce oxygen. Europe long ago cut down much of its forests for fuel and building houses, furniture and ships. I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. This is pretty thorough-going nonsense, see my reply to your other poist. There is no need to be insulting. What is nonsense? Biofuel does not seem to be economically a good idea, and if it were not for taxes, it be even a worse idea. Convince me. Is it better for the environment, and if so, how? It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. There's also a lot in the archives about this. You take a peculiarly American view that somehow leaves out of the whole equation the crucial effect US interest and interference, both official and corporate, have had on that whole region, and continues to have. Time and again the US has suppressed democratic initiatives there for the sake of Big Oil. Now when it starts to backfire on you you simply want to walk away from it all. Typical. Please check the archives before dragging up all the old arguments again that have already been dealt with. And please remember that there are list members here from all over the world, including the Arab countries, not just Americans - not even a majority of Americans. Keith Addison Yes, I take an American view. I am a naturalized American citizen, having come here by choice. It is a great place to live. It is not only the US which is dependent on oil. The whole modern world has run on oil since the introduction of the internal combustion engine, and subsequently, oil was used for air and sea travel and in the development of petrochecmicals. So it is not only an American concern, it is the concern of the whole modern world. Even if we did not run trains, planes and automobiles on oil, its use would not go away. I am sure that if there are Arabs who want to make their point, they can speak for themselves. -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
How practical is that if I want to drive from Washington DC to Miami? It takes 4 hours to refuel. I can see that it might make sense for commuting in a city, but then you would need another car anyway to take the wife and 4 kids anywhere. Damian Anderson On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Tricia Liu wrote: Damian: Air car runs by expanding the compressed air, releasing cool air(nice for the passengers) http://www.theaircar.com/howitworks.html Check above for how it works! Need electricity or solar power to compress the air and use as fuel for the aircar. But wave your hands in the air, all over there is your renewable energy. Compress and expand, compress and expand It's all still air, there are everywhere! BioDiesel still needs to produce from another forms, either cooking oil or veggie oil. But the company is not doing big scale of production, so could not even experiment on the air car. Just like Crysler Damler bought GEM, maybe a big car company can buy the patent or the engine. They can build their own cars by using this new engine, air compressors are easy. Have one at home, but gas stations can also sell these compressed air at pump! But the storage equipment will be expensive for compressed air or the future Hydrogen fuel. (Following comments are from a friend in related talk. These web sites may be helpful to you!) Hydrogen for cars is still very distant, no matter what anyone says. The problem is we need a Hydrogen fuel delivery infrastructure, and it should be produced at the site of each station with wind or solar (or geothermal). It is also stored under very high pressure or in liquid form at very low temperatures...and though they have made advancements for the fuel container, it is still under inspection over the long term. The other issue is that pure oxygen that is produced can be VERY volatile. Pure oxygen is the more dangerous than hydrogen, and resulted in the only astronaut deaths in the Apollo program. They stopped using pure oxygen after Apollo 1 fire that killed the astronauts. The car companies want us to believe they are moving in the direction of hydrogen cars, but my view is that it is a way to continue to make the large gasoline and diesel machines for a longer time. You will see that in the next 20 years very few hydrogen cars will be made... In the meantime, battery advancement is very rapid and encouraging. Fully electric bicycles will easily reach 100 miles within the next 2 years, and hybrid electric vehicles have no limits to range. I believe the best sollution is a combination of NiZn primary battery, and Zn air secondary battery. With zinc air, we can have zinc cartridge replacement stations like we now have gas stations. Drive up and the attendant will slide the spent cartidge out and replace with re-charged cartridge. http://www.metallicpower.com/refuel.htm http://www.electric-fuel.com/techno/battery.html A good size wind generator could easily power the replacement station charging, and excess power could be used to make hydrogen. The hydrogen could then be stored in a metal, and I encourage you to check this very important company. All NiMh batteries are based on this company's patent, as is recordable CD and DVD, and the Uni-Solar product. The same NiMh battery concept is a way to store hydrogen in metal for using in a fuel cell application (instead of high pressure or liquid containers). I believe this is smarter for most applications. http://www.ovonic.com/ecdbkgd.html If there is no wind, electricity could be produced on site with direct natural gas fuel cells, which create much less CO-2 than gas fired generator plants. The traditional power plants are many miles from the cities and loose much power in transmission. They also cannot be turned off at night, so they sell the power very cheap at night to car dealers, mines, factories...who waste it. Fuel cell power plants are MORE efficient when you feed less gas...the opposite of the combustion power plants. This company is a very good investment, as they are the only ones with this size plant and supplying to Los Angeles Power, Japanese companies, and German companies (Daimler Benz is a major investor in this company) http://www.fce.com/ It will be a combination of various technologies. Fuel Cell power plants and Zinc based batteries I am almost certain will grow in popularity. Lead will continue to be a key player in the short term. I do not believe the vehicles that use hydrogen will produce the hydrogen on board from methanol or ethanol as the car companies have said. Too many complications and expenses with this approach...but I may be wrong if they can perfect the direct ethanol cell that does not require converting to hydrogen first. I mention ethanol instead of methanol, because methanol is poisonous and will kill, so it is better to have ethanol if possible. The most favored fuel cell for
[biofuel] seperating glyc and FFA
Hello, I'm new in making Biodiesel, and while trying, I came up to something I do not understand. From one of the one-liter batches I'm trying, I tried to split the soap again into FFA. So the deposits of the trans-esterification, I seperated, and mixed with H2SO4. The oil source was WVO, animal fat based. (French fries) For the BD proces, I used 5g NaOH. Now in advance I calculated I would need 3,5 ml of my 95% h2so4 to get the mixture to ph7. (Am I right?) I now already added 10ml of H2SO4, and still no sign of seperating glycerine. Who can help me in this? Is the H2SO4 reacting with anything else but NaOH and soap? Thanks Filip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
I think that we have a troll in here .. it is starting to sound like the John Grant thread on energy renewables. Keith, any comments On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Damian J. Anderson wrote: Nick, Do you have scientific data to show that biofuel is cleaner than petroleum? Does it not depend on the engine? My car is certified as an Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle. I guess if you are running a 20 year old gas guzzler, it may run in a dirty way, but good modern engines are very clean. Damian On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Nick Taylor (SMTechnology.com) wrote: Damian, I think you missed one major point about 'biofullers': Biofuel is much much cleaner than dino-fuel, so people prefer to use biodiesel where possible. Even though it may cost me more to run my van on Biodiesel, I will be smiling at the thought of 99% less pollutants. Oil is dirty. Diesel is dirty. That's why people won't use it unless they have to when there is an alternative. It's a simple equation, not really to do with the oil giants.. Kind Regards Nick Taylor, Technical Consultant. SMTechnology.com -Original Message- From: Damian J. Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 January 2003 17:13 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. Damian Anderson -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Change of Pace
Regarding the air car, I don't even know why we are talking about a car that doesn't even exist and in my opinion will not exist in our future. Might as well be using the bandwidth to talk about a vehicle that runs on MGP. (Magnetic Gravity Pulse). Very, very far into the future. Bio-diesel and SVO are here NOW and vehicles by the hundreds are being converted all over the planet as we speak everyday because it fits into our cultural interplay with government bureaucracy. Veg-oil plays a vital part in the reduction of fossil fuel usage NOW, and people with no mechanical background are forging ahead and retrofitting their vehicles without research centers, government grants and patent-locked technology owned by a few whose interest is primarily capitalism. The reason why Bush didn't mention bio-diesel technology in his State of the Union address is because automakers and big oil haven't found a way to monopolize it enough yet to make it a political issue. Auto manufacturers get HUGH subsidies from the government to develop hydrogen cell technology. It's a cash cow and they are no going to change that anytime soon. Germany has an excellent government consciousness about bio-diesel, yet go across over to England, and you are back in the stone age. The English police are actually arresting people and charging fines for innovative and creative alternatives to fossil fuel. That alone tells you how far the English government is up Big Oil's a$$. --- Jesse Parris | studio53 | 53 maitland rd | stamford, ct 06906 203.324.4371www.jesseparris.com/ - Original Message - From: Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH How practical is that if I want to drive from Washington DC to Miami? It takes 4 hours to refuel. I can see that it might make sense for commuting in a city, but then you would need another car anyway to take the wife and 4 kids anywhere. Damian Anderson On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Tricia Liu wrote: Damian: Air car runs by expanding the compressed air, releasing cool air(nice for the passengers) http://www.theaircar.com/howitworks.html Check above for how it works! Need electricity or solar power to compress the air and use as fuel for the aircar. But wave your hands in the air, all over there is your renewable energy. Compress and expand, compress and expand It's all still air, there are everywhere! BioDiesel still needs to produce from another forms, either cooking oil or veggie oil. But the company is not doing big scale of production, so could not even experiment on the air car. Just like Crysler Damler bought GEM, maybe a big car company can buy the patent or the engine. They can build their own cars by using this new engine, air compressors are easy. Have one at home, but gas stations can also sell these compressed air at pump! But the storage equipment will be expensive for compressed air or the future Hydrogen fuel. (Following comments are from a friend in related talk. These web sites may be helpful to you!) Hydrogen for cars is still very distant, no matter what anyone says. The problem is we need a Hydrogen fuel delivery infrastructure, and it should be produced at the site of each station with wind or solar (or geothermal). It is also stored under very high pressure or in liquid form at very low temperatures...and though they have made advancements for the fuel container, it is still under inspection over the long term. The other issue is that pure oxygen that is produced can be VERY volatile. Pure oxygen is the more dangerous than hydrogen, and resulted in the only astronaut deaths in the Apollo program. They stopped using pure oxygen after Apollo 1 fire that killed the astronauts. The car companies want us to believe they are moving in the direction of hydrogen cars, but my view is that it is a way to continue to make the large gasoline and diesel machines for a longer time. You will see that in the next 20 years very few hydrogen cars will be made... In the meantime, battery advancement is very rapid and encouraging. Fully electric bicycles will easily reach 100 miles within the next 2 years, and hybrid electric vehicles have no limits to range. I believe the best sollution is a combination of NiZn primary battery, and Zn air secondary battery. With zinc air, we can have zinc cartridge replacement stations like we now have gas stations. Drive up and the attendant will slide the spent cartidge out and replace with re-charged cartridge. http://www.metallicpower.com/refuel.htm http://www.electric-fuel.com/techno/battery.html A good size wind generator could easily power the replacement station charging, and excess power could be used to make hydrogen. The
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fwd: Waste Oil Furnace
Well said Hakan. This is one of the post that I read first everytime I check my mail, so keep it coming. Mon --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Hiedi, If you are asked by your spouse and family, that think that you are neglecting them, they might have a point. If you live in a country govern by dictatorship and you risk your life and personal freedom, it is understandable that you will consider this. If you are asked by Keith, which is very hard to belive, you must be offensive and hurting other people. I have not seen such postings from you. If anyone else ask you, tell them to stick it up... Your postings are valuable. Hakan At 09:43 PM 1/28/2003 +, you wrote: I am sorry but I have been asked not to post on this site any more. Although the information on another site is not about the furnaces I was talking about earlier it is the best I can do now. The other site is about convertng fuel oil furnaces to waste vegetable oil. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altfuelfurnace I hope I did that right. Bye. Hiedi Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (unknown)
Hakan, Just re-reading your article on energy.saving.nu and came across the paragraph on what ethanol producers are doing to court BigOil. I believe that we are already seeing that in the Biodiseel industry. Take a look at BlueSun and also SeQuential. They are prime for some type of buyout stragety eventually. Since these business are started by MBA's one would conjecture that it is built in the model. I do believe that they are truely interested in moving Biodiesel forward, but I also think they want that big piece of Oil pie. It's not that it is a bad thing, ie. it happens every day in all business practices, it's just not the sustainable model that we discuss on this list so often. Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope that I am, but the gravity of potential wealth is usually too much for most, and even more difficult for a sustainable business due to the next hot thing factor lately. James Slayden Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Change of Pace
Jesse, There is already a big biofuel lobby in the USA, namely the agribusinesses such as Archer Daniels Midland who favor ethanol production from corn. However, it is more expensive to make than oil, so it is not a cost-attractive alternative. Yet they receive big subsidies from the public treasury. There was a web site listed here on the air car: http://www.theaircar.com. They claim that it works. I was mistaken though, in that they claim to be able to refill it with compressed air at an air station in 3 minutes. The 4 hour figure referred to charging it at home. The main problem with fossil fuels appears to be the political instability of the sources. They burn producing carbon dioxide and water vapor, both of which are absorbed by plants. If we are concerned about CO2, plant forests, or if you don't have land, pay other countries to keep their forests, as we are benefited from their CO2 absorption and oxygen production. The reason the English were giving people a hard time over the use of biofuel was that they were not paying fuel tax, which evidently supports the road and highway infrastructure. They did not mind if you paid the tax. Damian On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, studio53 wrote: Regarding the air car, I don't even know why we are talking about a car that doesn't even exist and in my opinion will not exist in our future. Might as well be using the bandwidth to talk about a vehicle that runs on MGP. (Magnetic Gravity Pulse). Very, very far into the future. Bio-diesel and SVO are here NOW and vehicles by the hundreds are being converted all over the planet as we speak everyday because it fits into our cultural interplay with government bureaucracy. Veg-oil plays a vital part in the reduction of fossil fuel usage NOW, and people with no mechanical background are forging ahead and retrofitting their vehicles without research centers, government grants and patent-locked technology owned by a few whose interest is primarily capitalism. The reason why Bush didn't mention bio-diesel technology in his State of the Union address is because automakers and big oil haven't found a way to monopolize it enough yet to make it a political issue. Auto manufacturers get HUGH subsidies from the government to develop hydrogen cell technology. It's a cash cow and they are no going to change that anytime soon. Germany has an excellent government consciousness about bio-diesel, yet go across over to England, and you are back in the stone age. The English police are actually arresting people and charging fines for innovative and creative alternatives to fossil fuel. That alone tells you how far the English government is up Big Oil's a$$. --- Jesse Parris | studio53 | 53 maitland rd | stamford, ct 06906 203.324.4371www.jesseparris.com/ - Original Message - From: Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH How practical is that if I want to drive from Washington DC to Miami? It takes 4 hours to refuel. I can see that it might make sense for commuting in a city, but then you would need another car anyway to take the wife and 4 kids anywhere. Damian Anderson -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] biofuels information from Neoteric
(Apologies for cross-posting)...this is in response to a discussion on the biofuels list EB Damian, Keith and all: Going to jump in here for a minute: I was going to go to an electric a few years ago. Then I drove one. No range, need for $$batteries, etc. led me to look for something better. Biodiesel and SVO were it. Emissions, range, cost,safety, simplicity, renewability on an annual basis, etc. were all favourable compared to other fuels. But I needed to convince myself first. So I spent a year researching and writing a sustainability-focused thesis in the topic. What really prompted to work in this field was reading Josh Tickell's book, as so many others have done. In my case, the interesting part was the last section, not the parts on making biodiesel or blends. The economy and simplicity of SVO was appealing, but the welded aluminum tank, and hose-in-hose, etc. were overly complicated and too expensive. There had to be a simpler way! Also, a motivating statement was one in that book made by a researcher that, to parapharse: Clearly the use of straight vegetable oil is not practical, since the whole system has to be heated from one end to the other - something like that. I am always suspicious when researchers sniff and use the words Clearlyblah,blah,blah!! It just did not make sense. I felt they were tossing out the baby with the bath water - maybe because they were working in an area that sees a lot of -30C in the winter!! But that is not every place, and certainly not every place that has a lot of problems with air quality (PM from diesels being a major contributor in urban areas). So, I really jsut wanted to see if it was a correct statement or not. Well, it wasn't. And the design in the book was lousy. Being convinced that this was a good way to go but that there would be an emerging market for simpler systems that cost less and made it easy and inexpensive for people to use SVO, I started a company, along with local machinist and inventor Henry Mackaay. We're going into our third year and the business is now growing fast - this will be by far our best year - it seems we are not alone in our thinking, since we've sold the kit to many countries around the world, and are getting quite a bit of positive feedback. We continue to try and make it better and will be working on more sophisticated options for the newer engines as time goes along. NOTE:(By the way, on a side note, we are having VERY good results on a recent switch to use of a looped SVO return, and return-to-tank Diesel arrangement, using a 10 micron filter, even in cold weather. That is now the standard, and the way the kit ships. We have had no air bubble problems - we used to, in early days, so shied away from loops for a while...but they way we have it all sorted out now, it is working very well) As for the thesis: I have put in on line as a pdf, as supporting documentation for the overall concept. It is not overly technical, it covers many of the hows and why's of both general and specific aspects of use of these fuels. It is free, online, or if anyone wants a hard copy printed off and mailed, I can to that on an as-requested basis, for a fee, just send an email. So, if anyone cares to have a read, the thesis is on our web site under the tab called articles Renewable Oil Fuels and Diesel Engines as Components of Sustainable System Design Research Question: Are renewable oils as fuels in unmodified compression ignition (diesel) engines a technically and economically feasible component of sustainable system design, in both developing and developed countries? I have been rebuilding the web site for a better look, easier navigation, etc. and will be adding more links, information, products, etc. soon. We are probably going to go to PayPal, as well since it is so popular as an online ordering service (we use KAGI for now, also a good service but not as well known.) In the meantime, there are extensive links to interesting research listed at the end of the thesis pdf. ,in the references section. I think many will find some of these of interest, as well as having a look at the thesis sub-topics per their specific interests. Sincerely, Edward Beggs B.E.S., M.Sc. President, Neoteric Biofuels Inc. Westbank, British Columbia, Canada http://www.biofuels.ca On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 08:23 AM, Damian J. Anderson wrote: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Some people might argue that oil, coal and other petrochemical stocks are derived from ancient biological sources, and so they might be included, but, true BioFuels come from renewable sources, that do not add to the burden on the atmosphere. Some people ask, How can BioFuels be better for the atmosphere, if you still burn them? . It is simple, the carbon dioxide (CO2 ), that is made when biofuels are burnt, recycles, back in the the plant material which they came
[biofuel] Well, first of all I must say Was: Democracy
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you Damian. You see, I'm an American. I've lived all my life as an American. I grew up .. worshiping America ... singing the praises of belonging to the country ... who does everything with the (let's sing it) arm of God ... truth and right! You see, I started like everyone else. Every other American, that is. Then, I started to study. I asked questions ...even so-called dangerous questions. This is America ... I thought ... where you're SUPPOSED to ask questions ... and open up your mind. So I did ask ... and study. Perhaps then ... perhaps I did the WRONG thing then huh?? I asked too many questions ... I studied TOO much. I say that with regret in my voice ... because my studies ... and my questions ... have revealed to me .. a side of America ... perhaps I never wanted to see. A shocking side to a country I grew up ... worshiping so much. --- The question then becomes ... what has Curtis discovered. Well, to put it bluntly, we live in a Matrix ... if you've ever seen the Keanu Reeves movie. Or if not ... we live in a Holodeck ... if you're a Star Trek ( The Next Generation) Fan. That is the best way I can see putting it. That yes ... within the Matrix ... or Holodeck ... yes, we live a quote/unquote wonderful life. We go to movies, football game, rock concerts, and yes, we go to work. We do so wonderfully ... with so much FREEDOM but only within the realm of a bubble. Only within a hunky-dory fantasy world created by .. I've gotta admit ... pretty crafty people. But venture outside that bubble ... as I have risked doing ... as one sees quite a different picture. I used to wonder, Why all my money, labor, and power .. was being sucked away ... as if used by some power-that-be. Now I know.Fly in a space shuttle ... see the global perspective ... and I have found that I am nothing more than a ROW-ER ... of a big gallion ship like seen on the movie Ben Hur with Charleston Heston. That myself .. along with millions of other American Taxpayers and Corporate supporters supply oar-power to millions of rowing oars.Steered and Commanded by Corporate as well as Government leaders. This Gallion Ship ... like the one seen on Ben Hur. bashes and sinks other ships (I'm sorry, countries and peoples). For the purpose of conquest and the pillaging their people and resources. Like some game of ... he who dies with the most toys wins. You've heard of that expression. That is what I've found. By asking too many stupid questions .. by studying too many censored books that perhaps I should've not read. That is what I've found. So the question then becomes ... so what will Curtis now DO about this newfound information?? Well, I know I cannot easily escape this big Gallion that I've found myself in but I CAN do this. Refuse to row my oar. Stop supplying MY share of energy propelling this juggernaunt that this Country has become. That's why I wholeheartedly support BioFuels. That's why I wholeheartedly support (as Keith would call it) village level decentralized energy production. That's why I want to someday make my own BioDiesel. Real soon. I may not change the world ... let alone this Country ... but I can do my teeny tiny little part ...of a possible solution. I urge all Americans reading my post ... to take the time. And risk venturing outside this Holodecky-Matrix which we collectively are in and explore. Don't take my word for it. Explore .. and gain your own testimony of all of what I have said above. I warn you, you may not like what you find. But I promise you ... it will be very enlightening. Thank you for reading my (sorry) stupidly long post. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hakan, If it is a government of the people, by the people, for the people, then it is a democracy. A society in which the people do not have the option to change their government if they don't like it is not a democracy. What democracies are there in the Middle East? I would count Israel and Turkey, but the others are for the most part desert satrapies. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to disagree with you. Ah, the joys of free speech! ;-) By the way, what did you think of George Bush's proposal yesterday to invest $1.2 billion towards research in developing a hydrogen powered car? That would not be biofuel, but it would be renewable and not make our societies dependent on corrupt dictatorships. I would like to see us develop nuclear fusion power, such as our sun runs on. It has run for billions of years on the nuclear fusion of hydrogen into helium. In that case, energy would become unbelievably cheap, and we could forget about this scarcity mentality that requires us to conserve energy. It is like conserving air! Free energy occurs in abundance
Hydrrogen Cars (was: Re: Democracy was [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH)
Damian J. Anderson wrote: snip By the way, what did you think of George Bush's proposal yesterday to invest $1.2 billion towards research in developing a hydrogen powered car? That would not be biofuel, but it would be renewable and not make our societies dependent on corrupt dictatorships. I would like to see us develop nuclear fusion power, such as our sun runs on. It has run for billions of years on the nuclear fusion of hydrogen into helium. In that case, energy would become unbelievably cheap, and we could forget about this scarcity mentality that requires us to conserve energy. It is like conserving air! Free energy occurs in abundance in nature, and we need to learn to harness it, or imitate it. I presume you are referring to this portion of the SOTU address last night: Tonight I'm proposing $1.2 billion in research funding so that America can lead the world in developing clean, hydrogen-powered automobiles. A single chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen generates energy, which can be used to power a car -- producing only water, not exhaust fumes. With a new national commitment, our scientists and engineers will overcome obstacles to taking these cars from laboratory to showroom, so that the first car driven by a child born today could be powered by hydrogen, and pollution-free. Join me in this important innovation to make our air significantly cleaner, and our country much less dependent on foreign sources of energy. Presumably he is referring to fuel cells, and not combustion. So we are actually talking about fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs). As you stated, hydrogen is not a biofuel, nor is it likely to be produced from biofuels in any significant quantity. Today, most is derived from petroleum production, and the next most likely major source is electrolysis (requiring electricity). I'll be happy to discuss fuel cells, electric vehicles and electrical generation with you off-line or on another list (EVs, hydrogen fuel, fuel cells), but I don't think this is the appropriate place. I can also e-mail you my recent article on hydrogen fuel cells in the transportation sector (due for publication next month). Darryl McMahon One question of economic significance would be how to generate hydrogen cheaply. Damian On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: Dear Damian, Another skewed view about dictatorships and democracy. Many of what we historically consider as the the worst examples of dictators, was duly elected by the people in a democratic system. On state or country level, some countries try to apply very global dictatorship towards the world community. That is the true dictatorship, not elected in any democratic way and maintained by military power. I would be very careful in waving the democracy and social justice flag if I was from US, especially at the current times. Nor does US have a very clean history to be proud of. It is naive to believe in any absolute justice, even if it is a noble goal and a dream worth while pursuing. To belive that US have achieved some sort of near perfect status, is very wrong and extremely dangerous. I would not place them very high on the list of good democracies (within top 30), but this is a very personal opinion, as most of this about democracy. Hakan At 12:13 PM 1/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. Damian Anderson -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent, Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8 It's your planet. Voice: (613)784-0655 If you won't look Fax: (613)828-3199 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fwd: Waste Oil Furnace
I vote for more Heidi posting also !! Bob Coyne - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:57 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Fwd: Waste Oil Furnace Dear Hiedi, If you are asked by your spouse or family, that think you neglect them, they might have a point. If you live in a country govern by dictatorship and risk your personal safety it is understandable. If you are asked by Keith, which is very hard to believe, you must hurt others by your postings. I have not seen any such postings from you. If you are asked by anyone else, tell them to stick it up Your postings are valuable. Hakan At 09:43 PM 1/28/2003 +, you wrote: I am sorry but I have been asked not to post on this site any more. Although the information on another site is not about the furnaces I was talking about earlier it is the best I can do now. The other site is about convertng fuel oil furnaces to waste vegetable oil. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altfuelfurnace I hope I did that right. Bye. Hiedi Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Hydrrogen Cars (was: Re: Democracy was [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH)
I think Keith once mentioned it being OK to discussed EV's here. I-THINK (LOL). Keith?? Curtis P.S. Keep me informed too. I'm a EV and Hydrogen ... as well as BioDiesel Enthusiast. Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be happy to discuss fuel cells, electric vehicles and electrical generation with you off-line or on another list (EVs, hydrogen fuel, fuel cells), but I don't think this is the appropriate place Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Fw: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Now that you mention it, it does sound like it. Greg H. - Original Message - From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:30 Subject: RE: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH I think that we have a troll in here .. it is starting to sound like the John Grant thread on energy renewables. Keith, any comments On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Damian J. Anderson wrote: Nick, Do you have scientific data to show that biofuel is cleaner than petroleum? Does it not depend on the engine? My car is certified as an Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle. I guess if you are running a 20 year old gas guzzler, it may run in a dirty way, but good modern engines are very clean. Damian On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Nick Taylor (SMTechnology.com) wrote: Damian, I think you missed one major point about 'biofullers': Biofuel is much much cleaner than dino-fuel, so people prefer to use biodiesel where possible. Even though it may cost me more to run my van on Biodiesel, I will be smiling at the thought of 99% less pollutants. Oil is dirty. Diesel is dirty. That's why people won't use it unless they have to when there is an alternative. It's a simple equation, not really to do with the oil giants.. Kind Regards Nick Taylor, Technical Consultant. SMTechnology.com -Original Message- From: Damian J. Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 January 2003 17:13 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. Damian Anderson -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.unification.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bubble drying- big correction
Is there not a danger of fire putting combustible materials in a microwave oven? Damian On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, girl mark wrote: Theoretically a backyard test for water content is to weigh a sample, then heat to past the boiling point of water, then weigh again. Someone figured out once that if you do this in a microwave oven, you won't heat (and boil away or whatever) the biodiesel, only the water, which takes care of todd's concerns about boiling in the previous post. I think I still have my two first samples (ie washed fuel that started out hazy, same batch of washed and then dried fuel that started out clear and then reverted to hazy after sitting in a sealed jar for two weeks). If I can find someone with a microwave among my friends I'll try and test relative water content of either. But how much is the weight likely to change? Like I said I haven't done this qualitatively before- so I don't know if the amount of water sufficient to form haze in the fuel is a sufficient mass of water for me to weigh on a .1g sensitivity scale. any ideas on what is the weight of the water if it is present at for instance 1200 ppm in a 100 ml sample of biodiesel? Mark -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: CFL incandescent bulbs -- was: [biofuel] RE:californians 50%
I just recently got a pack of 5 CF 60W replacements (twist type) at Costco for ~$9, which would mean they're about $2 bucks a pop. Not bad methinnks. They also had a 3 pack of 100W replactments for the same. Hi James, I thought my return on investment looked pretty good six years ago. You folks are making out like bandits it appears. What I am still searching for is a good priced Full Spectrum 100W replacement CF. They are quite expensive right now at ~$20 a pop. Don't want to get SAD in the wintertime. James Can SAD be reduced by going outside ?? AS A SIDE NOTE -- I get sad listening to the war drums beating for preemptive military strikes rather then negotiations seemingly disregarding the people within the international community such as the United Nations. It's sad that innocent victims have to suffer from terror and violence. CFL's is one way some can voice their opinion in the form of energy conservation while other consumers convey their rights as well IF reducing proliferating expenditures is desirable. I may have pushed the wrong button for some of you folks but I just wanted to voice the truth the way I see it for a more peaceful resolution in the ongoing militant conflict and my hope for democracy to have a part in this credibility gap between the leaders of our eco-nomic sphere. I'd prefer the UN decide rather then capitalist interests. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Cars
Darryl, The rubric of the biofuel group says this: biofuel á Biofuels, Journey to Forever: how to make your own biofuel, biodiesel, ethanol, bioenergy, distillation, renewable energy So I would suppose that fuel cells and hydrogen would come under renewable energy. President Bush said A single chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen generates energy, which can be used to power a car -- producing only water, not exhaust fumes. That would suggest to me that he is talking about burning hydrogen in oxygen to produce water and heat energy. 2H2 + O2 = 2H2O Perhaps a new design of an internal combustion engine could be made to burn hydrogen. The advantage of a hydrogen powered car would be that it would not pollute, and it would relieve the developed world of our dependency on foreign oil. The engineering challenges would be considerable, but a nation that can send a man to the moon and back again may well be able do this, if it has the will. As I said earlier, we would have to find a source of hydrogen that does not involve fossil fuels. Acids acting on metals produce hydrogen. One would need chemical engineering expertise to determine a good manufacturing process for bulk hydrogen. Here is a Department of Energy web site on hydrogen and electricity generation in the same plant: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases02/novpr/pr02240_v.htm Here is a DOE document on a hydrogen based economy: http://www.eren.doe.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/vision_doc.pdf The document talks about two methods of generating hydrogen from fossil fuels, namely steam reforming and partial oxidation. It can also be produced by electrolysis of water, and also by a pyrolysis process of biomass. Another biological alternative uses the photsynthesis of green algae to produce hydrogen: http://plantbio.berkeley.edu/profiles/newProfiles/melis.html Another way to produce hydrogen would be using nuclear power: http://neri.ne.doe.gov/abstracts/02-160.pdf Where there's a will, there's a way. Damian Anderson On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Darryl McMahon wrote: Damian J. Anderson wrote: snip By the way, what did you think of George Bush's proposal yesterday to invest $1.2 billion towards research in developing a hydrogen powered car? That would not be biofuel, but it would be renewable and not make our societies dependent on corrupt dictatorships. I would like to see us develop nuclear fusion power, such as our sun runs on. It has run for billions of years on the nuclear fusion of hydrogen into helium. In that case, energy would become unbelievably cheap, and we could forget about this scarcity mentality that requires us to conserve energy. It is like conserving air! Free energy occurs in abundance in nature, and we need to learn to harness it, or imitate it. I presume you are referring to this portion of the SOTU address last night: Tonight I'm proposing $1.2 billion in research funding so that America can lead the world in developing clean, hydrogen-powered automobiles. A single chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen generates energy, which can be used to power a car -- producing only water, not exhaust fumes. With a new national commitment, our scientists and engineers will overcome obstacles to taking these cars from laboratory to showroom, so that the first car driven by a child born today could be powered by hydrogen, and pollution-free. Join me in this important innovation to make our air significantly cleaner, and our country much less dependent on foreign sources of energy. Presumably he is referring to fuel cells, and not combustion. So we are actually talking about fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs). As you stated, hydrogen is not a biofuel, nor is it likely to be produced from biofuels in any significant quantity. Today, most is derived from petroleum production, and the next most likely major source is electrolysis (requiring electricity). I'll be happy to discuss fuel cells, electric vehicles and electrical generation with you off-line or on another list (EVs, hydrogen fuel, fuel cells), but I don't think this is the appropriate place. I can also e-mail you my recent article on hydrogen fuel cells in the transportation sector (due for publication next month). Darryl McMahon -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Well, first of all I must say Was: Democracy
Jesse, There is nothing to stop you becoming involved and taking responsibility for the nation, and the political process. If you don't like it, change it. Damian On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, studio53 wrote: I'd have to agree wholeheartedly. I love this country like I love life, but the original idea was for government to serve the people, taking on a background role. Now, the government is a business like any other corporation, except it's a poorly run disgrace controlling and directing everyone's lives. It is a criminal enterprise. --- Jesse Parris | studio53 | 53 maitland rd | stamford, ct 06906 203.324.4371www.jesseparris.com/ - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 3:59 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Well, first of all I must say Was: Democracy --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, csakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm afraid I have to disagree with you Damian. You see, I'm an American. I've lived all my life as an American. I grew up .. worshiping America ... singing the praises of belonging to the country I agree with you. I, too, have 'looked out the Porthole'. This great 'American Ship of State' has been hijacked, and the People working below decks don't even know it. Motie -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More on EU Biofuel Legislation Concerning PPO
-Original Message- From: Woodland B.V. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 January 2003 20:20 To: Karla Peijs; Jan Mulder; Albert Jan Maat Cc: ward Janssen; Sollmann Andreas; ralf hofmann; Projectbureau Duurzame Energie; Platform Hern.grondstoffen; Platform Bio-Energie; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; martien janssen; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Joshua Tickell/The Veggie Van; jorg gigler; Hans-Josef.Fell; Hans de Lathouder; h. l. baarbe; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; gave; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Energieonderzoek; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Darren Hill; christian leclerc; Christian Burmeister Subject: Fw: BIOFUELS - Short note on Pure Plant Oil (PPO) as fuel for modified internal combustion engines - Oorspronkelijk bericht - Van: Niels Ans¿ - FC Aan: PPO Colleagues Verzonden: maandag 27 januari 2003 20:26 Onderwerp: BIOFUELS - Short note on Pure Plant Oil (PPO) as fuel for modified internal combustion engines Dear PPO Colleagues Below please find the following note Short note on Pure Plant Oil (PPO) as fuel for modified internal combustion engines By Dr. Peder Jensen, European Commission, DG JRC/IPTS 27.01.2003 IPTS means Institute for Prospective Technological Studies, and is one of 7 Join Research Centers (JRC) of the European Commission. Further information's are found on http://www.jrc.es Please be aware that the conclusions of the note do not necessary represent the official opinion/politic of the European Commission, but as it appears from the first page in the note The responsibility for the conclusions rest with IPTS. On IPTS«s web page you will also find reports on bio-diesel and bio-alcohol. Please see Techno-economic analysis of Bio-diesel production in the EU: a short summary for decision-makers ftp://ftp.jrc.es/pub/EURdoc/eur20279en.pdf and Techno-economic analysis of Bio-alcohol production in the EU: a short summary for decision-makers ftp://ftp.jrc.es/pub/EURdoc/eur20280en.pdf The note concludes, as we all know, that PPO has a potential which should be taken seriously, and that PPO in some technical and environmental aspects are superior to other alternative fuels. At the same time, the author of the Note concludes, that there exists a lack of information and exact documentation on many of the arguments claimed by the proponents of PPO. This fact emphasises the necessity to bring PPO from just a small remark into a central place in the coming biofuel directive, so the signal will be to consider PPO as one of several biofuels, and not as one you should forget about. The following are extracts from the Common Position adopted by the Council. PPO is mentioned under Whereas 12, but not in the more important article 2.2, which only lists high refined biofuels Whereas (12) Pure vegetable oil from oil plants produced through pressing, extraction or comparable procedures, crude or refined but chemically unmodified, can also be used as biofuel in specific cases where its use is compatible with the type of engines involved and the corresponding emission requirements. Article 2.2 2. At least those products listed below shall be considered biofuels: (a) Bioethanol: ethanol produced from biomass and/or the biodegradable fraction of waste, to be used as biofuel; (b) Biodiesel: a methyl-ester produced from vegetable or animal oil, of diesel quality, to be used as biofuel; (c) Biogas: a fuel gas produced from biomass and/or from the biodegradable fraction of waste, that can be purified to natural gas quality, to be used as biofuel, or woodgas; (d) Biomethanol: methanol produced from biomass, to be used as biofuel; (e) Biodimethylether: dimethylether produced from biomass, to be used as biofuel; (f) Bio-ETBE (ethyl-tertio-butyl-ether): ETBE produced on the basis of bioethanol. The percentage by volume of bio-ETBE that is calculated as biofuel is 47%. (g) Bio-MTBE (methyl-tertio-butyl-ether): a fuel produced on the basis of biomethanol. The percentage by volume of bio-MTBE that is calculated as biofuel is 36%. (h) Synthetic biofuels: synthetic hydrocarbons or mixtures of synthetic hydrocarbons, which have been produced from biomass. (i) Biohydrogen: hydrogen produced from biomass, and/or from the biodegradable fraction of waste, to be used as biofuel. Regarding the 2nd reading of the European Parliament on the biofuel directive, I can inform, that we were in Bruxelles at the first meeting held on January 22nd in the Committee of Industry. It seemed that everybody were happy about the result as a good compromise, and that they wanted to proceed and end the negotiations as soon possible. PPO was not mentioned. The deadline for amendments is January 29th, and that the Parliament will vote on February 22nd. The amendments proposed by Solaroilsystems / Netherlands Folkecenter for Renewable Energy / Denmark Valenergol / France SGS / Germany Bundesverband Pflanzenle e.V. / Germany Grne Liga / Bundeskontaktstelle Pflanzenl / Germany and the related documents are found on
[biofuel] American Ship of State has been hi-jacked
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd have to agree wholeheartedly. I love this country like I love life, but the original idea was for government to serve the people, taking on a background role. Now, the government is a business like any other corporation, except it's a poorly run disgrace controlling and directing everyone's lives. It is a criminal enterprise. The original premise was that the People have inalienable Rights to Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness. Government was instituted to protect those Rights from infringements, using a very limitted range of Authorities. Current occupants of elected Offices are working well outside of their legal Authorities. Now that we have both expressed dissident views on an International list, can you make a prediction as to how long it will take for the Storm Troopers to break down our doors and spirit us away? According to the Homeland Security Act, we are now terrorists, and can be held indefinitely without charges ever being filed against us. We just lost our Right to a Trial by Jury, and to be able to question Witnesses against us. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: CFL incandescent bulbs -- was: [biofuel] RE:californians 50%
Yes, SAD can be reduced by going outside. =) Sometimes that isn't always an option, and it helps to have the full spectrum lighting. Conservation is key. How transportation is set up is highly important to transportation energy conservation. I walk to work most days, but I am unusually lucky in this respect. Looking at the Demographic of the Silicon Valley here, the two largest energy users are business and transportation, both which could stand vast improvements. Business will not conserve unless forced to, ie. higher business energy rates, and the transportation sector will not change unless absolutely forced to via state/federal mandates (CARB ZEV/milage standards) or competition. I think we are seeing that the Japanese are leading the way to conservation with hybrids, and Europe will be coming up with clean efficient diesels. But with a president that is moving against the will of the people of the united states in his war machine to the middle east, the only hope is that his advisors for his next election campaign will notice the pollster drop and rally for a new term instead of BigOil interests. Highly unlikely, but possible. So, now you all know who NOT to vote for in the coming election . BTW, has anyone heard anything about a draft? ;-) James Slayden On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, MH wrote: I just recently got a pack of 5 CF 60W replacements (twist type) at Costco for ~$9, which would mean they're about $2 bucks a pop. Not bad methinnks. They also had a 3 pack of 100W replactments for the same. Hi James, I thought my return on investment looked pretty good six years ago. You folks are making out like bandits it appears. What I am still searching for is a good priced Full Spectrum 100W replacement CF. They are quite expensive right now at ~$20 a pop. Don't want to get SAD in the wintertime. James Can SAD be reduced by going outside ?? AS A SIDE NOTE -- I get sad listening to the war drums beating for preemptive military strikes rather then negotiations seemingly disregarding the people within the international community such as the United Nations. It's sad that innocent victims have to suffer from terror and violence. CFL's is one way some can voice their opinion in the form of energy conservation while other consumers convey their rights as well IF reducing proliferating expenditures is desirable. I may have pushed the wrong button for some of you folks but I just wanted to voice the truth the way I see it for a more peaceful resolution in the ongoing militant conflict and my hope for democracy to have a part in this credibility gap between the leaders of our eco-nomic sphere. I'd prefer the UN decide rather then capitalist interests. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HGTV Dream Home Giveaway Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: Taxed To DEATH
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:04:45 -0500 (EST) From: Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Taxed To DEATH Damian, There is a lot of information available, on the Journey to Forever website, the National Biodiesel Board site, and elsewhere. Here are a few references: Briefs: http://www.nbb.org/pdf_files/EnviSafetyinfo.PDF http://www.nbb.org/pdf_files/emissions.PDF Longer Reports: 1) A Comprehensive Analysis of Biodiesel Impacts on Exhaust Emissions, USEPA October 2002 http://www.nbb.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/gen-323.pdf 2) Comprehensive Health and Environmental Effects of Biodiesel as an Alternative Fuel Sasha Koo-Oshima, Nancy Hahn, Jon Van Gerpen (no link but available on line) 3) Effect of Biodiesel Composition on NOx and PM Emissions from a DDC Series 60 Engine. Draft Final Report National Renewable Energy Laboratory Also available online via NREL website. That should get you started. Best, Thor Skov Nick, Do you have scientific data to show that biofuel is cleaner than petroleum? Does it not depend on the engine? My car is certified as an Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle. I guess if you are running a 20 year old gas guzzler, it may run in a dirty way, but good modern engines are very clean. Damian __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] seperating glyc and FFA
It sometimes takes time for you to see the results (24 hours?) . I don't know enough aobut this to know if the calculation is correct, however you can do a trial and error test series to figure out how much acid to use. The first time I did this, I did a small test batch and with no results after a couple of hours it seemed to be a failure and I set it aside and forgot about it. the next time I picked up the jar a few weeks later, I had to do a serious doubletake- it looked like biodiesel in reverse with the dark stuff (looking for all the world like glycerine) floating on top. It took a minute to realize it was the ffa recovery test jar! Mark At 05:31 PM 1/29/2003 +0100, you wrote: Hello, I'm new in making Biodiesel, and while trying, I came up to something I do not understand. From one of the one-liter batches I'm trying, I tried to split the soap again into FFA. So the deposits of the trans-esterification, I seperated, and mixed with H2SO4. The oil source was WVO, animal fat based. (French fries) For the BD proces, I used 5g NaOH. Now in advance I calculated I would need 3,5 ml of my 95% h2so4 to get the mixture to ph7. (Am I right?) I now already added 10ml of H2SO4, and still no sign of seperating glycerine. Who can help me in this? Is the H2SO4 reacting with anything else but NaOH and soap? Thanks Filip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] seperating glyc and FFA
Filip writes: From one of the one-liter batches I'm trying, I tried to split the soap again into FFA. So the deposits of the trans-esterification, I seperated, and mixed with H2SO4. Both phases, or just the glycerine phase that had already settled out using an NaOH catalyst? It's not clear (to me at least) if you have even produced biodiesel here. If you already have a biodiesel phase and a glycerine phase, obviously separated, subsequent extraction of FFA should involve acidifying ONLY the glycerine phase. The oil source was WVO, animal fat based. (French fries) For the BD proces, I used 5g NaOH. Now in advance I calculated I would need 3,5 ml of my 95% h2so4 to get the mixture to ph7. I now already added 10ml of H2SO4, and still no sign of seperating glycerine. Here's where I get confused. If you've successfully made biodiesel, you should have already seen glycerine separation after the NaOH step. Perhaps you're confusing the separation of glycerine with the separation of FFA, which requires acid rather than base. If, on the other hand, it's I that is confused (often the case :-)), and you are acidifying just the glycerine phase, after separating it from a successful biodiesel reaction, then I would agree with Mark -- keep adding acid. The FFA will eventually float up to the top as a dark reddish-brown, odd-smelling oily layer. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Change of Pace
Damian writes: There is already a big biofuel lobby in the USA, namely the agribus- inesses such as Archer Daniels Midland who favor ethanol production . The main problem with fossil fuels appears to be the political insta- bility of the sources. They burn producing carbon dioxide and water vapor, both of which are absorbed by plants. If we are concerned about CO2, plant forests, or if you don't have land, pay other countries to keep their forests. Ummm, is this by any chance the same Damian?you know, Gregory Peck as the father, spawn of Satan an' all?? I agree with the poster who suggested it's all a troll Give him some basic links to check out in case he's sincere but deluded, then cut him off if he fails to learn from them.-K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Ethanol Summit in Australia
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:18:05 +0900 To: Mike Jureidini \(SAFF\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ethanol update - South Australia Thanks Mike, and the best of luck with the Summit. Let us know at the lists if there's anything we can do to help. I'll forward this meanwhile. Best Keith Hi Keith, The Motor Trade Association (South Australia) has called for, at our request, an Ethanol Summit, which will be held this morning. As quoted in the invitation, There has recently been debate on the Pros and Cons of adding Ethanol to petrol. This has resulted in a lot of misinformation being touted through the media. This summit will, we hope, enable you to more fully understand the use of Ethanol as a renewable fuel. There will be 3 speakers at the summit: Bob Gordon (Executive Director of the Australian Biofuels Association), Bill Wells (an expert on ethanol who consults for CSR Distilleries), and Prof. Barry Batts (Chemical engineer). Organisations include SAFF, Farmers Federation, RAA (royal automobile association), Australian Institute of Energy, Energy SA (South Australian Govt. office of Energy Policy), Environmental Protection Agency (who happen to be responsible for the ultra-strict ULP specification that we have in SA, that prohibits the use of ethanol!), Office of Consumer Business Affairs (SA Govt), Primary Industries (SA Govt), Passenger Transport Board (SA Govt), Transport SA (SA Govt), and Mitsubishi Motors. Press has been invited but have not yet accepted invitation. No secret that there is a fairly obvious bias against fuel ethanol in this country. Will let you know (at biofuels-biz) how it all went. Regards, Mike Jureidini Biofuels Consultant Australian Farmers Fuel (SAFF) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH - AirCar
You need to take into account the efficiency losses: Hydro/Nuclear/solar/wind/etc Electric generator - transmission lines - electric motor - mechanical air compressor - pipes - air motor - mechanical transmission - rubber wheels I don't know how efficient this would be, but I'm guessing below 4% (if my guess makes a difference) It could be made better if you used an internal combustion generator, but you still have a lot of conversions: Crops - oil/alcohol - IC engine - mechanical air compressor ... etc Crops would include energy used to plant and maintain the crop as well. I guess the above process would be about the same with a hydrocarbon fuel. However if you're going to use an IC engine anyway, what's wrong with an IC/electric hybrid? --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net [archive.nnytech.net] nnytech.net -Original Message- From: Crabb, David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:12 PM To: 'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH - AirCar An air compressor can run on electricity. Electricity can be generated from Solar, Wind, or Hydro.. fairly cleanly. This would allow someone to not *have* to use internal combustion to commute..etc It would also allow somone to not have to worry about batteries..etc. Even if one uses fuel consumed at a powerplant.., it is still better to run off of excess capacity at night. Less waste that way. If it can be charged overnight, it would allow a smaller compressor to run overnight. smaller = running at 100% vs the running at 15% power for cars..etc. Also.. the removal of even needing a freon system is a benefit. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: CFL incandescent bulbs -- was: [biofuel] RE:californians 50%
James Slayden wrote: What I am still searching for is a good priced Full Spectrum 100W replacement CF. They are quite expensive right now at ~$20 a pop. Don't want to get SAD in the wintertime. James Slayden When we did the lights for our new house, I specified full spectrum CF bulbs or halogens to avoid the SAD problem in our low insolation climate. Every 28 watt full spectrum CF bulb cost me over $20.00 CDN (and our kitchen alone has seven of these!), but it's very bright in there and my sweetheart has much better visibility than she had when we were using four 100 watt incandescents in our old house. Another advantage to the new bulbs is that they're instant on ballasts--no annoying flicker, and we get light right away. After about 30 seconds, the bulbs are fully warm. Our living area has four 11 watt CF bulbs from Ikea--the older kind with the greenish light that flicker most irritatingly whenever they're activated. We use these with a pair of very old 15 watt Panasonic CF bulbs in torchieres, and together, the light quality is decent enough for reading. So, we use 74 watts in the living room where we used to use a pair of 150 watt halogens. Originally, I put 28 watt full spectrum lights in the living room too, but my sweetheart didn't like the bright, white light in the living area, so we compromised for the inferior bulbs. Bedroom areas, hallways and bedside reading lamps all have full spectrum spiral CF bulbs from Sylvania. These are also instant on, and ran about $12 CDN each. The new bulbs with instant on ballasts are worth the money, as far as I'm concerned. The light quality is far better than the dinky no name Chinese bulbs we bought from Ikea--although I believe even the Sylvania bulbs are Chinese too! Our new house is almost twice the size of the old one. Even with gas heat and gas hot water, we're using about the same amount of electricity per month as we did before, when all of our hot water came from an electric tank. I blame this on some of our smart appliances, which seem to use more energy than the dumb old ones used to, partly because the dumb old ones had smarter operators! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] What's wrong with this picture?
http://www.motorcities.com/contents/03A6E465919257.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture?
Besides the fact that it is all plastic and look like it's CG? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 21:11 Subject: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture? http://www.motorcities.com/contents/03A6E465919257.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Democracy was [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Damian J. Anderson wrote: By the way, what did you think of George Bush's proposal yesterday to invest $1.2 billion towards research in developing a hydrogen powered car? It's a distraction from the real issues of energy conservation and investment in workable technology. I'm a hydrogen enthusiast and have been for many years, but I don't see the need for such a huge investment to develop a hydrogen powered car. I can do that myself for less than $10 000 in building an engine, installing the tanks and fuel regulation equipment, AND buying a natural gas compressor to safely fill the tanks. Gaseous fuels are not particularly difficult to burn. The bigger question is this: From whence will the hydrogen come? Look who the Administration is funding in their budget proposal and you'll find out where THEY think the hydrogen will come from! That would not be biofuel, but it would be renewable and not make our societies dependent on corrupt dictatorships. At best, it will come from reformed methane--a fossil fuel. Over on the sci.energy.hydrogen list right now, a business man is promoting the idea of using concentrated solar derived hydrogen to liquefy coal and make synfuels. This is probably a good interim solution. There's not a lot of info on the website, but he's posted a great deal on the news group in the last month: http://www.mokindustries.com/pages/762107/index.htm I would like to see us develop nuclear fusion power, such as our sun runs on. It has run for billions of years on the nuclear fusion of hydrogen into helium. In that case, energy would become unbelievably cheap, and we could forget about this scarcity mentality that requires us to conserve energy. It is like conserving air! Free energy occurs in abundance in nature, and we need to learn to harness it, or imitate it. For God so loved the world that he put the nearest fusion reactor 250 000 000 km away! Why bother with fusion when we already HAVE a fusion power plant conveniently located in the sky? One question of economic significance would be how to generate hydrogen cheaply. That is THE CRITICAL question! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bubble drying- big correction
damian, supposedly the biodiesel doesn't heat up very fast- the person who reported doing this test said that the water boiled off and the biodiesel was still cool to the touch. I'm sure you would want to only nuke it in several-second bursts. I havetn' tried doing this, not liking microwave ovens and all that.. Mark At 03:59 PM 1/29/2003 -0500, you wrote: Is there not a danger of fire putting combustible materials in a microwave oven? Damian On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, girl mark wrote: Theoretically a backyard test for water content is to weigh a sample, then heat to past the boiling point of water, then weigh again. Someone figured out once that if you do this in a microwave oven, you won't heat (and boil away or whatever) the biodiesel, only the water, which takes care of todd's concerns about boiling in the previous post. I think I still have my two first samples (ie washed fuel that started out hazy, same batch of washed and then dried fuel that started out clear and then reverted to hazy after sitting in a sealed jar for two weeks). If I can find someone with a microwave among my friends I'll try and test relative water content of either. But how much is the weight likely to change? Like I said I haven't done this qualitatively before- so I don't know if the amount of water sufficient to form haze in the fuel is a sufficient mass of water for me to weigh on a .1g sensitivity scale. any ideas on what is the weight of the water if it is present at for instance 1200 ppm in a 100 ml sample of biodiesel? Mark -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.unification.nethttp://www.unification.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=244396.2846622.4218523.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=1414307/R=0/*https://www.clearcredit.com/registration/default.asp?n=bcpID=c01888p1379ckID=gen146285664ea2.jpg 5664f6b.jpg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Hydrrogen Cars
Presumably he is referring to fuel cells, and not combustion. So we are actually talking about fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs). As you stated, hydrogen is not a biofuel, nor is it likely to be produced from biofuels in any significant quantity. Today, most is derived from petroleum production, and the next most likely major source is electrolysis (requiring electricity). I'll be happy to discuss fuel cells, electric vehicles and electrical generation with you off-line or on another list (EVs, hydrogen fuel, fuel cells), but I don't think this is the appropriate place. I think that's a bit too strong. I know of no clear evidence demonstrating can't or shouldn't be considered, alongside other simple hydrocarbons or alcohols or whatever, as potential fuel cell fuels. I can only surmise that the reason that they aren't often named as candidates, alongside other somewhat similar fuels is that they're not petroleum industry products. *All* similar products presently under consideration as potential fuel cell fuels are Petroleum Industry products with the exception of water. So, it's ok for GM to talk about making such a big effort to use gasoline as a fuel for a fuel-celled vehicle, but why not ethanol? Methanol is *definitely* under consideration as an important fuel cell fuel. I'd love to see some primitive fuel cells put on the market more readily just so the folks here can do some experimenting to see if they can't make some of their biofuels work in them. I imagine some fuel cells are more available than last I checked, but I don't know. I'm not sure why you say most H2 is derived from Petroleum Production. Perhaps it is. I thought that most was presently derived from Natural Gas production and that a reason that the Petroleum Industry liked some of the H2 talk was that it would enhance the value of that asset. That's what I heard at a Texaco lecture anyway. You seem knowledgeable about this stuff, so I'm not saying you don't have some good points about relevance and such. I just want to make my point that, having followed some of the political-economic goings-on for awhile myself, I think biofuels are often ignored because of their derivation, not their chemical appropriateness or inappropriateness. I think Keith would allow some fuel cell talk and allow for its relevance if we were to examine whether biofuels could be used in fuel cells. I can also e-mail you my recent article on hydrogen fuel cells in the transportation sector (due for publication next month). Darryl McMahon Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
