[biofuels-biz] 111.9 MPG-Highway (2.1L/100KM-Highway) Prototype Diesel
http://www.evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=573 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] ultracaps
Thanks this was certainly quite interesting. I liked the Nissan Diesel and the UPS at the end (I wouldn't think an ultracap would have enough juice for a UPS, except in conjunction with batteries or something else). On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 00:06:31 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: Hi Murdoch I donât know about drag racing and the last drag race I went to was when I was a kid growing up in Detroit. Hereâs a pretty good Japanese site that describes ultracaps in a readable manner. http://www.okamura-lab.com/ultracapacitor/index.htm It seems to me that they have the potential of being used for structural components owing to their laminar structure. Could replace the roof, hood (bonnet) trunk lids etc with something like this. The site above talks a lot about safety issues, power, energy capacity, etc. There are some experimental cars, trucks and busses being used in Japan. Hereâs whatâs on their news page. http://www.okamura-lab.com/ultracapacitor/ecsnews2Eng.htm News Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Breakthrough Burns Biodiesel Better
How can we get details on the fuel sensor? - Original Message - From: Ken Gotberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 7:02 AM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Breakthrough Burns Biodiesel Better From: http://www.solaraccess.com/news/story?storyid=5024 Breakthrough Burns Biodiesel Better September 4, 2003 [SolarAccess.com] In order to optimize the use of biodiesel in Germany, the research institute FAL in cooperation with Volkswagen completed the development of a fuel-sensor, which can differentiate biodiesel from conventional diesel in the tank and decides engine timing according to the respective fuel blend. The application of a fuel-sensor assures that the use of biodiesel is reaching an optimum in terms of emission reduction and fuel efficiency. This new development is viewed as a breakthrough for biodiesel's future on the fuel market. The cultivation of oilseed rape for the production of biodiesel also benefits agriculture. The production of raw materials for biodiesel has meant that the acreage in Germany for renewable raw products has increased within five years from approximately 500,000 hectares to approximately 840,000 hectares. This development proves the large potential for renewable raw materials that aid environmental and climatic protection, and are in addition an important alternative to foodstuff production for farmers. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV Easily record your favorite shows! CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WUMW7B/85qGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] King of Green Gold
Biofuel list member Ramjee Swaminathan sent me this a while ago, finally managed to get it processed and uploaded - should be of much interest: Jean Pain: France's King of Green Gold -- Frenchman Jean Pain built a home-made power plant that supplies 100% of the his energy needs. The core of the system is a 50-ton compost mound, three metres high and six across, made of pulverized tree limbs and underbrush. Buried inside the compost is a 4-cubic-metre sealed steel tank 3/4-full of the same compost, producing methane -- bio-gas. Tubes connect the tank to a pile of 24 truck-tyre inner tubes, the gas reservoir. Pain uses the gas to cook all the food, fuel a truck and produce electricity, via a methane-fuelled internal combustion engine that turns a generator. Another tube runs from a well and into the heap, with 200 metres of tubing wound round the tank, the water emerging at 60 deg C at 4 litres a minute, enough for central heating, the bathroom and the kitchen. The compost heap continues fermenting for nearly 18 months, and then yields 50 tons of natural fertilizer. (With thanks to Ramjee Swaminathan.) http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/methane_pain.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] New Athena Project a Sustainable Energy Policy Planning Process
September 22, 2003 For immediate release The New Athena Project, a Sustainable Energy Policy Planning Process This project is inviting representatives from environmental and scientific communities in concert with business interests, public policy experts and other stakeholders to participate in a process to develop a Sustainable Energy Policy Plan to be offered to all candidates running for political office. The New Athena Project seeks to promote a Sustainable Energy Policy that has global environmental sustainability as its first priority in answer to similar planning documents being offered by current controlling commercial interests who formulate their plans and goals based on sustaining economic status quo with control and dominance of the world energy marketplace as a first priority, while marginalizing environmental consequences in favor of economic development. Eleven basic discussion topics have been defined and presented online at http://www.fuelandfiber.com/Athena. Each is linked to a board in the New Athena discussion forum to allow interested parties an opportunity to help shape the Sustainable Energy Policy that is offered to all candidates for political office. Visit http://www.fuelandfiber.com/Athena for more details and to participate in the process. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: Control live television Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/aUMW7B/A6qGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Water Radiolysis
Here something about generating hydrogen from water. Alex http://www.nuenergy.org/radiolysis.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: Control live television Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/aUMW7B/A6qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Good car to buy?????
I'm looking to buy an older diesel car in which to eventually start running biodiesel in. I'm a student, so it has to be low$$$. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jeff Vancouver, BC, CANADA Areyou looking for a car or truck or van/suv what? If a car, I'd say find an old Mercedes diesel. Word is they are excellent for biofuels experimentation and very tough. Late 70s and early 80s models still have real value. An older VW IDI might also be good. If your looking for vans and trucks, the old Ford 6.9L diesel found in the 1983-87 vans and pickups has a good reputation. The Dodge 12V Cummins diesel is also a good motor, some say superior to the Fords. The only thing you might want to avoid is the late 70s to early 80s GM 350/5.7L diesel. It is an engine that was converted from gasoline and very poorly designed. My grandfather ran one of those until his death, but he was very handy, and aparently also very lucky. Best of luck J.D. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: phosphoric acid in Foolproof method
Hmm,, I'm not sure how to respond. I assume you're talking about neutralising, as it's rather rare to make biodiesel that doesn't contain some alkaline substances. If you're reading pH 7 in recently-made, unwashed biodiesel you're probably not getting an accurate reading. If you neutralise the soap and catalyst in your fuel using acid, I believe you are then forming some kind of metallic salt. This should probably be washed out with water for various reasons. what way are you reading this pH? I bubblewash, and I now bubblewash with very hot water which gives great results. I also reuse the 2nd/3rd or 4th wash water for other batches- countercurrent wash water reuse. My goal is to reduce the water I need to use. On my last 45-gallon batch of fuel, I used only 10 gallons of new water (last wash) and 20 gallons of water recycled from previous batches. Here are a lot more details about the bubblewashing that I do: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash2.html I've changed a few details since I wrote that article. I now recommend hot water washes very strongly, I now use 1/4 water to 3/4 biodiesel, and I usually now do only a 1 or 2-hour bubbling on the first wash. I make my own wash stones out of small grindstones or little pieces of sharpening stones because the aquarium ones I've used all disintegrate in biodiesel eventually. Because it's very hot right now here, and I work outside, all the fuel I make is turning out to be good quality and therefore the washes produce no emulsion due to quality and the higher wash temperatures. I;m curious to see how much this changes once it's winter- the colder weather makes a difference in both washing and in processing if temperatures of the processor drop too much (my experience last winter, slightly improved by adding much more insulation!)). good luck! mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi girl-mark-fire, Is there any sense in washing the BD when the pH is around 7 ? I use the single stage base method. If you recommend washing, what is the best way to do so ? Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 8:08 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: phosphoric acid in Foolproof method I think that part of the acid advice comes from Terry UK's old, old message that's up at your site- 'add a gloop' I think it says. It was the best info there was at the time (a lot better than the bound-for-emulsion suggestions in Tickell's book which tell you to basically spray water at the stuff, I've been there done that and boy did it confuse me when it went to emulsion). Terry's article is where I first saw bubblewashing instructions and though Aleks gives a different way of doing it, the 'just add a gloop' of acid bit sticks in one's mind I think. I thought that 'just keep adding acid' advice from Terry also really threw me off when I was first starting out with washing, as it didn't really explain emulsion other than to suggest fixing it with acid (with little accounting for different strengths of acid, etc...) Which is primarily why I wrote that article you've got up there. Perhaps Terry's article could use a link to your notes on acid in case people don' t find it by themselves? by the way when you use acids to break emulsion, how much acid do people use, compared to the amount needed to get the water pH to go neutral? It seems to me that it takes a while to see visible results by the 'just add some till emulsion clears' method, so people probably overdo the acid waiting to see results. Just a hunch. Maybe a more scientific approach to that particular problem is in order as well? (I am a very big fan of hot water washing now and dont ' get emulsion at all no matter how vigerous the wash is, in fact I've been experimenting with all the 'emulsifying' wash methods- what Todd calls Frog in a Blender'. I'ts still quite hot outside right now so it doesn't cost me much in energy to heat. In winter it'll be a different story) . So I still don't recommend acidulating as a matter of course, unless you know what you're doing. It can be done right if you do a titration for soap/catalyst first to
Re: [biofuel] suitability of fuel injection sytems for biofuel?
ur seals and stuff are rubber-free! the biodiesel will corrode rubber like nobody's business. Are you sure about that? It might, and also it might not, but it won't do it like nobody's business - unless you don't wash the biodiesel, in which case it's not the biodiesel that's rotting the rubber it's the excess methanol. Biodiesel and your vehicle: Compatability -- Rubber http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#rubber Best Keith hey mike! biodiesel should work fine in ur volkswagon, since its made to run on diesel with a tdi anyways. you may have some trouble as cold weather sets in, raising the temp of combustion. a heating wire and or directing air intake thru the manafold should fix that. this can be fixed at most dealership garages or anyplace that deals with tractors and other diesel engines. also, since its an older car, have a shop-tech check that all ur seals and stuff are rubber-free! the biodiesel will corrode rubber like nobody's business. hope this helps, and lemme know how it goes. good luck! ---beth--- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Good car to buy?????
I have a Mitsubishi 4x4 L 200 truck. It has a turbo installed. Can I too, convert easily to biodiesel? Mike JAMAICA. - Original Message - From: jeffreyjkeith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 10:58 AM Subject: [biofuel] Good car to buy? I'm looking to buy an older diesel car in which to eventually start running biodiesel in. I'm a student, so it has to be low$$$. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jeff Vancouver, BC, CANADA Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: phosphoric acid in Foolproof method
Hello Mark I think that part of the acid advice comes from Terry UK's old, old message that's up at your site- 'add a gloop' I think it says. Yes, then it says Not too much, and then it says wait and add another gloop if necessary, in other words a little at a time. But indeed it's not exactly precise. He sent me what I thought was an updater a couple of months back, but it was the same as the previous one, so I guess he still does it that way, and I also guess it works well for him, but that in practice he'd have a much more precise idea of what a gloop means. It was the best info there was at the time (a lot better than the bound-for-emulsion suggestions in Tickell's book which tell you to basically spray water at the stuff, I've been there done that and boy did it confuse me when it went to emulsion). Terry's article is where I first saw bubblewashing instructions and though Aleks gives a different way of doing it, the 'just add a gloop' of acid bit sticks in one's mind I think. I thought that 'just keep adding acid' advice from Terry also really threw me off when I was first starting out with washing, as it didn't really explain emulsion other than to suggest fixing it with acid (with little accounting for different strengths of acid, etc...) Which is primarily why I wrote that article you've got up there. Perhaps Terry's article could use a link to your notes on acid in case people don' t find it by themselves? Unless you already have the url I don't think there's any way of navigating direct to Terry's article except via the main Bubblewashing page, and the acid advice is right there directly below the link, and there are Back buttons at the end of Terry's article: Back to: Bubble washing Aleks Kac's wash method: Washing. Mike Pelly's method: Washing and drying. Bubblewashing 101 by Maria Alovert That should be enough. by the way when you use acids to break emulsion, how much acid do people use, compared to the amount needed to get the water pH to go neutral? It seems to me that it takes a while to see visible results by the 'just add some till emulsion clears' method, so people probably overdo the acid waiting to see results. Just a hunch. Maybe a more scientific approach to that particular problem is in order as well? But wouldn't the more scientific approach be not to make MGs in the first place? And to be less impatient in the second place? Better not to make a mess than to get expert at cleaning it up. (I am a very big fan of hot water washing now and dont ' get emulsion at all no matter how vigerous the wash is, in fact I've been experimenting with all the 'emulsifying' wash methods- what Todd calls Frog in a Blender'. I'ts still quite hot outside right now so it doesn't cost me much in energy to heat. In winter it'll be a different story) . So I still don't recommend acidulating as a matter of course, unless you know what you're doing. It can be done right if you do a titration for soap/catalyst first to find out how much acid to use (that HCL/ bromophenol blue indicator titration that Juan described a week or so ago). Why do a titration? Adding it slowly while monitoring the pH should do. I'd like to test this out against that soap test, see if it turns out the same. Someone's already done the research to figure out what the soap test titration tells you in exact numbers, so it's one of those rare things in biodiesel shadetree testing, a quantitative measure. It's what I was looking for a year ago with quest Let us know what you find. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV Easily record your favorite shows! CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WUMW7B/85qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Synthetic Oil
A Wilkins wrote: Hello, Just my two cents on the issue of synthetic oil. Just to give you a little background on my knowledge of oil. I started an oil additive/friction reducer business about a year ago and in that time I have spent many many hours searching on the net and talking with mechanics, oil sales people, and average users. Don't fall into the trap of synthetic oils. They are better because the company makes more money! Change your oil on a regular basis and use a good filter. There are many reasons why you need to change your oil on a regular basis and none of them can be solved by more expensive oil any better than simply changing your oil often. The filter is the single most important part of an oil system. Some go into bypass mode early in life leaving your engine prone to abrasive particles and others clog too easily starving your engine of oil. Just my two cents. I disagree. A lot of long haul truckers and taxi drivers also disagree. The oil itself doesn't break down very quickly. It's the additive packages that break down. The performance of the oil is also degraded by contamination, such as fuel dilution, and dust or soot particles. When Mobil 1 came out Mobil recommended 50,000 mile oil changes, with certain restrictions. They wanted people to install oiled foam air filters, and service them every 5000 miles, and they recommended people change their oil filters every 5000 miles. Long haul truckers regularly go 12,000 miles between oil changes using conventional oils. Those using synthetic oils and bypass filters regularly get 75,000 miles between oil changes on rigs that will usually go over a million miles during their lifetimes. But then the major difference between class 8 trucks and cars, apart from size, is that while cars measure their oil in quarts, trucks measure their oil in gallons. IMHO, the right thing to do is use the synthetic of your choice with a good bypass filter, and instead of changing the oil at some arbitrary mileage limit get oil analysis done, and don't change the oil until the lab says you should, or you suspect there's a problem. Taking out 8 ounces of oil for a sample, and sending it in for an $8 oil analysis is a lot better than having to deal with 4 quarts of used oil. It's particularly better than having to replace 4 quarts of oil at ~$4.00/quart. Back in the Bad Old Days I used Mobil 1 in my old Toyota Tercel 4WD Wagon. (The first Sport Utility Wagon, regardless of what Subaru claims.) I changed my filters every 5000 miles, and went 25,000 miles between oil changes. When I got stupid enough to sell the car it had 77,000 miles on it, and the engine ran like it was new. I had the bad judgement to sell that car when I moved to Germany. There is no doubt in my mind that if my uncle's moron wife hadn't destroyed the engine by driving it across town with no coolant in it after bursting a hose then the thing would still be running like a top. But then Toyotas are known for their longevity. If I'd known I might be able to put a diesel engine into it then I'd have bought it back from him in a skinny minute. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: Control live television Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/aUMW7B/A6qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WVO burners...
Hi Tony Keith, It is good to see someone else using the glycerol/sawdust 1 litre fire logs I told you about some time ago. Not just me, quite a few people I think - Peter in Holland too, I believe he said (in a woodburning stove). I usually credit you when I suggest it here. And here, of course: Burning glycerine http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#burn I got the idea of burning it with sawdust from the STOVES list at REPP discussing briquetting sawdust and using a binder, then you finished the job by putting it in milk cartons. Only remaining problem is it works too well - we don't use very much glyc this way, not as much as we produce. But we use it for other things too, we're not quite among the glycerine-bedraggled, as Todd once put it. How moist are you making the mix? We try to compress it a lot, fill up the cartons in 4 or 5 steps and thump it down each time with a bit of wood that just fits the carton. We get about 750 g of glyc by-product and 450 g of shavings into a carton. We use shavings, not sawdust (we separate the sawdust and use it in the composting toilet). We don't use them immediately - they seem to work better after a few days and don't leak in the fire much, or at all, the by-product gets thoroughly absorbed into the shavings and seems to stay there. Otherwise we had free by-product running out of the burning cartons and making a bit of a mess, not all of it subsequently burned. We start it off with wood and get it burning hot first, and even though they were leaking onto burning wood it still made a mess. I have tried a full range of mixes, but they all work well Yes! although the wetter ones tend to weep thru the carton, making storage a problem. The waxy coating also gets on my hands along with the coloured inks used to print the cartons. (these were filled during our last summer). Hm, haven't had that - would you like me to send you a container-load of high-quality Japanese milk cartons? At only twice our normal fee... g Regards Keith regards, Tony Clark Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 05:47:15 +0900 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WVO burners... Hi Mike Thanks Keith, I must say I am honored to hear from you, as I have always been a silent admirer of your work. SNIP We also have a more or less endless supply of offcut wood, and shavings which we mix with biodiesel by-product and cram it into 1-litre milk cartons. They burn really hot - three of them will heat an 80-litre bathtub to 60 deg C-plus in 40 minutes. They'd work well in those double-walled water heaters. So would the wood, and so would a Turk burner I think. SNIP Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV Easily record your favorite shows! CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WUMW7B/85qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Hydrogen Economy-2
Hi All I agree about H2 fuel cell efficiency, but extra electric power generation will be needed just the same. Using a 20-horesepower average figure means hp delivered by the engine and this is usually advertised as ~25%. Better to convert back to Watts (1 hp = 746 Watts ~ 750 W). 20-hp (15kW) delivered means the engine is using 60kW of fuel (60kJoules per sec). All heat engines are limited by the Carnot cycle efficiency =1 LowT/HighT where T is given in Kelvin = Celsius + 273. If you do the math for lets say a steam turbine with a LowT = 100C = 373K and a HighT of 800C = 1073K the maximum possible efficiency is 65%. Theres no way around this with a heat engine! Using higher T differences and cogeneration, I read somewhere that modern power plants can get up to 70% efficiency? Batteries and fuel cells are NOT heat engines and efficiencies can get up to 100% in a perfect world. The worlds not perfect and I guess maybe 90% efficiency for a H2 charge/discharge. A round trip is 90% x 90% ~80%. Assuming 70% efficiency for a modern power plant, this means an overall efficiency of 80%x70% = 56%. This is more than twice as good as a fuel car engine, so yes its a better way to go. Its the extra infrastructure that will cost a lot of money and is there the political will to spend a whole lot of money on this? California would not be a good place to depend on a H2 fuel cell car! Its true that most homes in the US have natural gas and could be exploited for H2. Im not sure how you turn CH4 into 2H2 + C. A natural gas heat engine generator will work to electrolyze water, but it seems like youre going around in circles this way. Why not just convert your gasoline car to natural gas and avoid all the hassle? Pump the home natural gas into the cars gas tank. I advocate an aluminum economy. Aluminum tends to be electrolyzed from ore using hydroelectric power in places like Canada. BTW I have a ~12kW very low cost solar concentrator design if anyone is interested. It can power external heat engines like turbines, Stirling, Thermoacoustic Stirling, steam and you get hot water in the first world and/or sterilized water in the third world, like Indonesia. Ken __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Economy
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:15:21 -0600, you wrote: I see solar thermal as easier on the environment. If you want to see what silicon purification and fabrication do to the environment look at the San Jose Ca. water. Also solar thermal is lower tech. I certainly respect this point. A clarification would be that some of my focus on Solar PV is out of the fact that it works so well in conjunction with EVs. You can install a combination of PV and an EV in a home and this cuts through a lot of problems. from then on you have a potentially trouble-free, fuel-dollar-free transportation solution. I like PV for other reasons, but certainly there's no reason to exclude from consideration other good ways of harvesting solar energy, which arguably have excellent advantages over other technologies. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy
What I don't understand is why, in addition to experiments with making Hydrogen, folks don't also seem to be experimenting with going further than that. Why not make ethanol and methane and so forth? Hydrogen has a drawback in that it's a gas at room temperature. So, if you're experimenting at home trying to devise a chemical means of storing energy, is this ideal? If you could take the H2 and somehow immediately combine it with Carbon and Oxygen in such a way as to make Ethanol or Methanol, then you could use those liquids more at your own liesure? There are plenty of other molecules you could experiment with. I'm just suggesting as a matter of principle there's no reason (no good one that I can see) to just stop at H2. Sure, it could require extra energy to get to other chemical products, but the advantages (such as easier storage) might be worth it, and we don't know yet if the amount of energy would be prohibitive. MM On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:51:53 +0900, you wrote: Hi all, I would like to try some experiments on hydrogen. First : What is the best way to make it out of water ? What electrodes should I use, so they don't go in solution ? What electrolite should I use ? Is there a link where I can find some information for beginners on this item ? By the way : I have been driving over 100.000 km on BD now, without any problems at all. Just great! Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands Dag Pieter Caveman Chemistry previously had a nice description and slide show of producing Chlorine, Hydrogen, and Lye from table salt, using PET bottles, flashlight batteries, glue and stuff. Wire electrodes would be corroded by the lye and chlorine. We could use gold or platinum wire, but the poor man's inert electrode is carbon. The easiest place to get carbon electrodes is from a flashlight battery. It is imperative that you use ordinary flashlight batteries, not alkaline batteries, since alkaline batteries put the zinc in the center and the carbon on the outside. Ordinary flashlight batteries have a carbon rod down the middle and a zinc can on the outside. Now that site has changed, and I can't find this section there anymore. http://cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/index.html Caveman Chemistry Only these: http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali2.html http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali.html Here's the previous text though, below, without the slide show, hope it makes sense. regards Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] 111.9 MPG-Highway (2.1L/100KM-Highway) Prototype Diesel
http://www.evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=573 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: Control live television Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/aUMW7B/A6qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Economy-2
Ken, I have some minor problems to consolidate the efficiency assumptions. My information is that power stations have 30 to 50 and slightly above and from small to large. I also understand that this is the same as for fuel cells 30 to 50 and from small to large. Chargeable batteries have an efficiency in the range of 80%, according to my understanding. On heat engines we have the same understanding. I also understand that Hydrogen molecules are so small that it is much larger containment problems than Natural Gas. It is no compatibility between equipment for Natural gas and Hydrogen. I saw that the fuel tank for one of the hydrogen car prototypes had a cost of $20,000. R/P value for US Natural gas is around 7 years and for the world 60 years. To use NG is even a less sustainable situation than oil. Producer gas from coal would probably be an alternative, but it is very dirty and it is therefore the politicians do not want to talk about it. It is however the realistic and logic outcome of the Bush hydrogen alternative. It could extend the use current energy consumption at low cost with 50 to 100 years. It would also make US less dependent on oil imports. My suspicion is that the much advertised US hydrogen economy will turn out to be a Producer gas (Gengas) economy, based on the larges domestic coal reserves in the world. US will never join the Kyoto agreement. The technical discussions that we now have are more than half a century old or 70 years. Hakan At 11:47 AM 9/22/2003, you wrote: Hi All I agree about H2 fuel cell efficiency, but extra electric power generation will be needed just the same. Using a 20-horesepower average figure means hp delivered by the engine and this is usually advertised as ~25%. Better to convert back to Watts (1 hp = 746 Watts ~ 750 W). 20-hp (15kW) delivered means the engine is using 60kW of fuel (60kJoules per sec). All heat engines are limited by the Carnot cycle efficiency =1 ÐLowT/HighT where T is given in Kelvin = Celsius + 273. If you do the math for letâs say a steam turbine with a LowT = 100C = 373K and a HighT of 800C = 1073K the maximum possible efficiency is 65%. Thereâs no way around this with a heat engine! Using higher T differences and cogeneration, I read somewhere that modern power plants can get up to 70% efficiency? Batteries and fuel cells are NOT heat engines and efficiencies can get up to 100% in a perfect world. The worldâs not perfect and I guess maybe 90% efficiency for a H2 charge/discharge. A round trip is 90% x 90% ~80%. Assuming 70% efficiency for a modern power plant, this means an overall efficiency of 80%x70% = 56%. This is more than twice as good as a fuel car engine, so yes itâs a better way to go. Itâs the extra infrastructure that will cost a lot of money and is there the political will to spend a whole lot of money on this? California would not be a good place to depend on a H2 fuel cell car! Itâs true that most homes in the US have natural gas and could be exploited for H2. Iâm not sure how you turn CH4 into 2H2 + C. A natural gas heat engine generator will work to electrolyze water, but it seems like youâre going around in circles this way. Why not just convert your gasoline car to natural gas and avoid all the hassle? Pump the home natural gas into the carâs ãgasä tank. I advocate an aluminum economy. Aluminum tends to be electrolyzed from ore using hydroelectric power in places like Canada. BTW I have a ~12kW very low cost solar concentrator design if anyone is interested. It can power external heat engines like turbines, Stirling, Thermoacoustic Stirling, steam and you get hot water in the first world and/or sterilized water in the third world, like Indonesia. Ken Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: Control live television Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/aUMW7B/A6qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] TiO2 Solar Cells
See http://www.sta.com.au/webcontent4.htm for TiO2 solar cells. These look interesting. Ken __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: Control live television Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/aUMW7B/A6qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] New Type of Internal Combustion Engine
Ken, I have an even better solution to the economical combustion engine and that is, KEEP TO THE SPEED LIMITS. I have not patented it yet, problems with financing. It looks like all the rich people who could finance it do not agree with the idea. Hakan At 01:20 PM 9/22/2003, you wrote: Mayflower Corp has a new type of internal combustion engine. http://www.mayflower-e3.com/tech/mn_sim_flash.html Mayflower e3 engine technology is a revolutionary development of the internal combustion engine that provides the answer to the key challenges facing fossil fuel engines. There used to be a stark choice between large engines for power and small engines for fuel economy. But the Mayflower e3 engine is an intelligent technology that automatically adapts to driving conditions. Engine capacity and compression ratio change according to demand. When you need power, with Mayflower e3 technology, it is available instantly. The stroke becomes longer and capacity increases. Then, when you cruise, the capacity reduces and you have all the benefits of a smaller engine. Compression ratio will also adjust according to engine speed and demand, which means that the Mayflower e3 engine will run with the optimal combustion pressures at all times. The variable compression ratio allows a supercharger or turbocharger to be used without compromising engine performance. This means that the size of the engine can be reduced without loss of performance. A crankcase modification easily accommodates the simple components that provide these revolutionary benefits. Mayflower e3 technology means that bigger is no longer better Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Economy-2
Hi Hakan Yes, it appears the 70% figure is wrong and I misinterpreted from http://www.pacensys.com/SitingPowerPlants.pdf my apologies. It looks like overall H2 efficiency is less than I figured. Textbooks say that fuel cells are much better than 30-to-50%. Does anyone know for sure what actual efficiencies are in a H2 vehicle? Electrolysis and discharge have over potentials etc, but 50-to-70% losses seem very high to me. Ken --- Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ken, I have some minor problems to consolidate the efficiency assumptions. My information is that power stations have 30 to 50 and slightly above and from small to large. I also understand that this is the same as for fuel cells 30 to 50 and from small to large. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV Easily record your favorite shows! CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WUMW7B/85qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Economy-2
Hi Ken, Ken wrote : I advocate an aluminum economy. Aluminum tends to be electrolyzed from ore using hydroelectric power in places like Canada. BTW I have a ~12kW very low cost solar concentrator design if anyone is interested. It can power external heat engines like turbines, Stirling, Thermoacoustic Stirling, steam and you get hot water in the first world and/or sterilized water in the third world, like Indonesia. I am very much interested in your solar concentrator design. At this time I try to build a Stirling engine, but also our little company uses lots of hot water, so any good design is more than welcome. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: Ken Gotberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:47 AM Subject: [biofuel] Hydrogen Economy-2 Hi All I agree about H2 fuel cell efficiency, but extra electric power generation will be needed just the same. Using a 20-horesepower average figure means hp delivered by the engine and this is usually advertised as ~25%. Better to convert back to Watts (1 hp = 746 Watts ~ 750 W). 20-hp (15kW) delivered means the engine is using 60kW of fuel (60kJoules per sec). All heat engines are limited by the Carnot cycle efficiency =1 -LowT/HighT where T is given in Kelvin = Celsius + 273. If you do the math for let's say a steam turbine with a LowT = 100C = 373K and a HighT of 800C = 1073K the maximum possible efficiency is 65%. There's no way around this with a heat engine! Using higher T differences and cogeneration, I read somewhere that modern power plants can get up to 70% efficiency? Batteries and fuel cells are NOT heat engines and efficiencies can get up to 100% in a perfect world. The world's not perfect and I guess maybe 90% efficiency for a H2 charge/discharge. A round trip is 90% x 90% ~80%. Assuming 70% efficiency for a modern power plant, this means an overall efficiency of 80%x70% = 56%. This is more than twice as good as a fuel car engine, so yes it's a better way to go. It's the extra infrastructure that will cost a lot of money and is there the political will to spend a whole lot of money on this? California would not be a good place to depend on a H2 fuel cell car! It's true that most homes in the US have natural gas and could be exploited for H2. I'm not sure how you turn CH4 into 2H2 + C. A natural gas heat engine generator will work to electrolyze water, but it seems like you're going around in circles this way. Why not just convert your gasoline car to natural gas and avoid all the hassle? Pump the home natural gas into the car's gas tank. I advocate an aluminum economy. Aluminum tends to be electrolyzed from ore using hydroelectric power in places like Canada. BTW I have a ~12kW very low cost solar concentrator design if anyone is interested. It can power external heat engines like turbines, Stirling, Thermoacoustic Stirling, steam and you get hot water in the first world and/or sterilized water in the third world, like Indonesia. Ken __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: Control live television Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/aUMW7B/A6qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Study: Forestry Waste Could Help Meet Kyoto Targets
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=585ncid=585e=4u=/nm/20030 921/sc_nm/environment_kyoto_dc excerpt: TORONTO (Reuters) - European countries could help meet their Kyoto emissions requirements by using forestry waste products like left-over tree stumps and foliage to produce energy, scientists said on Sunday. Stumps, branches, tree tops and other foliage left in forests by logging firms release carbon dioxide over time as they decompose. Using the material as fuel to produce electricity, or processing them into pulp and paper, could cut down on greenhouse gas emissions, the scientists said in a report released before a World Forestry Congress meeting in Quebec City. The major problem with this from my perspective (forested land in northern Minnesota, USA) is erosion. If you're going to take the trees for lumber, at least leave the stumps and roots to hold the soil together while the next crop of trees grows. My mother's land will have a new growth of young aspens in 5 or so years after being harvested last year. Without the stumps, the soil will be drastically reduced in quality well before then because of wind and water erosion, and this is basically flat land. Pete Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Economy-2
MM, Known Resources/Production or Consumption per year is R/P value. It gives you the number of years the local resources would last with current consumption of energy. It turns out to be the consumption when you look at local level like a country, since the consumption is filled by imports. The way it is used it should really be R/C instead, but it is an old measurement from the days when export/import did not play that much. US have a R/P of 10 years for oil and that means that its local resources would last for 10 years with its local consumption, for NG it is 7 years. Because the limited capacity of transport and distribution for import, US now have a NG crises. New discoveries does change the number, but the estimates of unknown resources varies between 1 to 3 times the known, between the realistic and most overly optimistic estimates. This would give US maximum 20 to 40 year for oil and 14 to 28 years for NG, before their reserves are definitely gone. It is however not a definite stop, since the production would go down gradually. It would however cause many severe crises. Hakan At 01:50 PM 9/22/2003, you wrote: R/P value for US Natural gas is around 7 years and for the world 60 years. Hakan: Could you please provide a definition for R/P value? I think you did this once, but I can't find it, nor any mention of this term on google.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV Easily record your favorite shows! CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WUMW7B/85qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis
I will stick to using a battery charger to make hydrogen. I am not a fan of anything radioactive. Brent From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:21:14 -0400 Here something about generating hydrogen from water. Alex http://www.nuenergy.org/radiolysis.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Solar Water Heating (was Hydrogen Economy)
Our solar hot water pre-heater has been operational and plumbed in for almost a month now. It is operating pretty much as expected. A simple batch heater based on a salvaged 60-gallon electric hot water heater tank, a salvaged patio door, reclaimed plywood and fiberglass insulation, it has about 1.5 square meters of glass surface. Using the rule of thumb that simple solar heating applications are about 50% efficient, and that about 1 kW of solar radiation falls on a square meter in full sun, I estimate this is the equivalent of about a 750 watt heater, for up to 6 hours a day - so 3 kWhs per day best case. (And we missed best case by at least 7 weeks.) Water at the inlet varies from 10 to 15 degrees C, and typically reaches above 30 C near the end of useful sun each day. With temperatures dropping below 10 C at night now, the tank loses some heat at night and is usually between 23 and 25 C in the morning. (I installed a remote reading thermostat on the outside of the tank, halfway up and out of direct solar exposure to provide these figures.) It appears to be displacing almost half of our hot water heating costs at this point (late summer), so that reduces our household fossil fuel consumption. Major costs associated with the build were the reflective foil inside the box, and the plumbing hardware. Assuming we will get to use it 6 months of the year (non-freezing period), and get useful sun 80% of those days, I estimate the benefit at about 600 kWh or Cdn$60 annually (electricity or natural gas usage displaced). Assuming my labour is free (the education was fun for building the first one), the payback is less than 2 years. That's in the same ballpark as the payback on many energy conservation measures (e.g. insulation, weather-sealing, timers, motion-sensors). Reflector panels may get added next year to increase the effective collection area. I'm toying with building something that might automatically open and close the panels based on presence of sunlight to increase insulation effect at night. Something low-tech, perhaps based on counterweights on the panels and a piston that is driven by expansion of a gas which is heated by the same solar radiation. As for the hydrogen economy, well, my thoughts remain captured at http://www.econogics.com/en/heconomy.htm Darryl McMahon Hakan wrote: Kirk, I am the first one to agree with you and especially for hot water production. Hot water production with solar, pays back in 0 to 5 years, depending where you live and if you buy or make the equipment yourself. This is one of the best investments possible, among all investment alternatives out there. I am in process to make more info on our site, and this is an educational introduction, http://energy.saving.nu/solarenergy/ Hakan At 01:15 AM 9/22/2003, you wrote: I see solar thermal as easier on the environment. If you want to see what silicon purification and fabrication do to the environment look at the San Jose Ca. water. Also solar thermal is lower tech. http://www.ecomall.com/activism/solar.htm In Egypt in 1912, Shuman and Boys used the sun to generate a 60 horsepower engine for a irrigation project. They built a 220 foot longparabolic trough collector which, in principle, is still in use today. In 1939, the first modern attempt to heat houses with solar energy started with a model home built at MIT. Solar energy is not new and is a well-proven technology. To quote Sir George Porter, If sunbeams were weapons of war, we would have had solar energy centuries ago. http://www.solarenergy.com/info_history.html This page is well worth reading. Several machines described. Also see http://www.deathvalleypizza.com/1time___.html Kirk -Original Message- From: murdoch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 3:49 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Economy Up to now the price of PV has seemed to come down, but I don't have a strong sense of it. Enough production still seems to be owned by the Oil Giants that I try to refrain from over-optimism as to the pace of the decline in price. I can see how someone in Japan or Germany might be somewhat more optimistic as those countries seem to have non-Oil Solar companies. On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:40:34 +0200, you wrote: Hi Martin, I did not think that you were that old, but yes in the beginning of the 1960's and for nuclear power. Hakan At 10:53 PM 9/21/2003, you wrote: I'm sorry for being nostalgic, but haven't we heard about electricity being too cheap to meter? Using mass produced point focus solar collectors, whether stirling or photovoltaic, WILL bring the price of electricity down low enough to make hydrogen viable as an energy carrier. Some people believe that concentrated photovoltaics will eventually bring the price of electricity down to less
RE: [biofuel] Never read a bigger pile of horse manure in my life...
Relying on the media or the party for accurate information about candidates is folly. Since we don't have anything close to fair and balanced coverage, or the European luxury of a horde of niche parties representing every view under the sun, Americans face the disadvantage of having to look at each candidate's record individually. This isn't too difficult; candidates for office (other than for the lowest local positions) usually have previous political experience. It is just a matter of exhuming their voting records and their public utterances. Fortunately there are many groups do this research and publish voting guides. Examples of these are the John Birch Society, the American Civil Liberties Union, the League of Women Voters, the National Rifle Association, trade unions, and professional associations. Many of these organizations also survey the candidates to determine their positions on other matters. While it may be time consuming to identify the organizations that best represent your views and then read their published voting guides, there's no excuse to go to the polls uninformed. Even still, many of the small percentage who exercise their franchise walk into the poll with only a vague understanding of the positions of the major candidates and not a clue about the positions of the minor candidates. They may have seen a negative campaign ad or two on the TV, but more often than not, they don't even recognize the candidates' names on the ballot. They're left with the choices of picking by party label, picking incumbent vs. challenger, or leaving them blank. This is the sad reality of our political system. Interview a hundred Americans and 99 could probably name the President. Less than half could name their Senators or Representatives in the Federal Legislature. The numbers drop sharply at the State Government level. What percentage of the electorate can name their State Senators and Representatives? What about County Commissioners? How about their City Councilmen; or School Board Members, or Sherif, or Dog Catcher? These ignorant people are the Swing Votes that candidates in tight races covet. If a campaign can even build name recognition, then the candidate will probably win. So until Americans step up and take responsibility, they're going to suffer under bad leadership. To paraphrase Joseph de Maistre, Americans have exactly the government they deserve. -Original Message- From: murdoch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:05 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Never read a bigger pile of horse manure in my life... In addition to what you're saying, one pet peeve of my own is the coverage of the coverage. I wouldn't mind seeing a breakdown of how much media coverage is of: A) Candidates' views as to what the issues are and what their views are on them. B) Candidates' supposed electability. C) Candidates' views as to other matters such as the coverage of them, the coverage of their peers, etc. etc. Very little of an election appears to be, in my view, coverage of the Job Candidates and what they think the could do to do the job better. Often much fo the coverage is of the press or gosh-knows what. I don't think it's irrelevant to cover the totality of things, the views of the man-on-the-street, but at some point the focus should be squarely on the business at hand. Often the coverage is of who is leading, which plays into your point. I don't want to know so badly who is leading as much as who *I* am going to vote for. *I* determine who will be the leader on my ballot... that's how I see it anyway. On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:38:33 -0500, you wrote: No Bryan, What I am implying and abhore is the concept of categorizing and typifying voters to the point of wonder of wonders that there is no point in anyone even going to the polls as, of course, the pundents already know who's going to obtain whatever margin already. It's a degrading, destructive and manipulative practice used in an attempt to herd the electorate into prescribed beliefs rather than leaving the gate open and encouraging them to follow their own judgement. That's primarily what I object to, as it completely discounts the full bredth, width and depth of human decision making. Thus I stick to the fact that every vote has the capacity to win or lose an election, making either all votes potential swing votes, which completely negates the crystal ball prediction practices used by pundents at large. All you have to do is take a look at Florida 2000. Who were the swing voters there? The ones that voted for Nader? The ones that didn't get to vote at all? Those that chose not to vote? Or those who did vote? It was and always is the totality of votes that place the pendulum in it's particular resting spot when the polls close. No one should have any use for the sound bite vernacular of self-prescribed pundents. Todd Swearingen - Original
[biofuel] Re: alternative heating
At 02:52 PM 9/21/2003 +, you wrote: Hi Caroline double-walled SS things of various types, with a firebox inside What was that originally? I want one. Water heaters, for hot water on demand, not for a constant supply: You find the coolest recycle at your dump. ;) Especially not this home. Which isn't exactly a home, it's a sort of barn/shed/workshop/studio/lecture room/office with some living space in between, Sounds like our house, right before the hurricane, I found a goat in one of the bedrooms, (the screen door had broken), he thought that would be a great place to weather the storm. and it's quite big, and extremely energy-inefficient (it's a 100-year-old traditional farmhouse that's been more or less neglected for 30 years) - Just have to ask, why don't you insulate it, rather than generate more heat or is this the purpose of the experiment- trying out different systems all at once? not too bad in summer, really bad in winter. The compost heat will help, even though it's not nearly enough. As I said there are a lot of bits in the puzzle and we'll figure out how to fit them together as we go along. It might be more effective to use some or all of the compost heat to heat the biogas digester, for instance. Anyway, I'll probably post further info about all this as it unfolds. Sustainable building is my favorite hobby, so I can't wait. I cannot find the link, but one that I found inspirational described an old way of building a farm house with the hay storage above the whole house- for insulation in winter, the animals housed beside the family (for heat and ease of care) a food storage section and the whole thing was fashioned as a single large structure. I may have gotten it from this list, or the homesteader forum. I have an endless supply of wood chips I am trying to figure out how to use. Why do they have such things as pellet stoves but not wood chip stoves? I've never actually tried to burn them in the wood stove, So try. I knew as I typed I would get that response. Seems my husband and I have discussed it... he is the household expert on wood fires. I'm sure one problem for ours currently, would be the moisture content.. these piles are outside, uncovered, and very moist, perfect in fact, for mushrooms, as is evident for the amount I found in one yesterday. So, I will need to devise a way to store them so that they dry enough, before attempting it, I guess I have never gotten that on the project list. Mushroom cultivation, has been on the list a year now, someday... So, how can I turn these huge piles of chips into heat? What sort of size are they? (The chips, not the piles.) The largest is 10x3 cm, and most are considerably smaller, including shredded leaf powder. The piles are roughly the size of a car. I'd guess there are 12-20 right now, from fresh to a year and a half old. What kind of wood? A mix, whatever grows in Virginia, mostly pine also cedar, wild cherry, oak, etc. I found a lost jug of bar and chain oil , half full yesterday. That is fine for burning, but not sure I appreciate it mixed in with the animal bedding. (On the other hand, I've heard used motor oil, painted on the bottom of a chicken coop will get rid of mite infestations, so maybe it will not hurt them.) Why have you got huge piles of wood chips? The power lines need to be kept clear of trees and branches, the county charges by weight to dispose of everything. So we let them dump truckloads in a corner of a field, if they are in our area. I figured we could use them for deep bedding after seeing Joel Salatin's farm. They are free, and kept out of the landfill. We end up getting far more than we can ever use. They definitely compost, slowly, as we can see the steam rising out of the tops. (I can 'premix them with chicken manure by using the animal house bedding too if this helps.) If the chips were small enough you could perhaps use them as a proportion of the chicken bedding in the first place. That is exactly what we do with them, they are the chicken bedding. (This is straight from the Salatin's) which reminds me, when I was visiting, Joel was considering running pex pipe through his chips, in the chick brooder, to provide more even heat for the chicks and prevent losses due to bunching under the brooder lights. He was going to heat the water with an outdoor furnace. Don't know what became of this idea, but it makes me think if he built his chip style bedding better he could achieve the needed heat straight from decomposition. http://journeytoforever.org/compost.html Composting Thanks I'll reread. This is the final trial-run for our journey, where we figure out the detail of the technology we'll be using as much as possible, what we don't already know of it. There's much more to it than just alternative energy. We're doing well, we've covered a lot of ground already and learnt a lot, but there's still much more to
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Economy-2
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:31:01 +0200, you wrote: MM, Known Resources/Production or Consumption per year is R/P value. It gives you the number of years the local resources would last with current consumption of energy. It turns out to be the consumption when you look at local level like a country, since the consumption is filled by imports. The way it is used it should really be R/C instead, but it is an old measurement from the days when export/import did not play that much. US have a R/P of 10 years for oil and that means that its local resources would last for 10 years with its local consumption, for NG it is 7 years. Because the limited capacity of transport and distribution for import, US now have a NG crises. It isn't clear to me if it's consumption or production. Which is it? There are huge differences in these numbers in the US. For example, our consumption of Oil is roughly 20 million barrels per day (7.3 Billion barrels per year). Our production is roughly 10 million barrels per day (3.65 billion barrels per year, more or less). So, which number are you using in stating this R/P for Oil in the U.S.? That will give me a better idea of what you're saying. New discoveries does change the number, but the estimates of unknown resources varies between 1 to 3 times the known, between the realistic and most overly optimistic estimates. This would give US maximum 20 to 40 year for oil and 14 to 28 years for NG, before their reserves are definitely gone. It is however not a definite stop, since the production would go down gradually. It would however cause many severe crises. Hakan At 01:50 PM 9/22/2003, you wrote: R/P value for US Natural gas is around 7 years and for the world 60 years. Hakan: Could you please provide a definition for R/P value? I think you did this once, but I can't find it, nor any mention of this term on google.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis
At some beaches radioactivity level may be very high... Are you a fan of sunbathing? Alex - Original Message - From: Brent S [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis I will stick to using a battery charger to make hydrogen. I am not a fan of anything radioactive. Brent From: Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:21:14 -0400 Here something about generating hydrogen from water. Alex http://www.nuenergy.org/radiolysis.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis
Exactly! Also some of the wastes are perfect betta emitters - almost ready batteries. But it is practically impossible to get them. Alex - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis On Monday, September 22, 2003, at 07:43 AM, Brent S wrote: I will stick to using a battery charger to make hydrogen. I am not a fan of anything radioactive. Could be an interesting way to take advantage of all those radioactive wastes. Alpha particles are pretty benign once they get absorbed by something (like water). Endless H2 for free..-K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Economy
I'm not that old Hakan, but I still hear it echoing. Energy will never get that cheap unless there is an abundance like you say, and then only if their is competition. (both) Hakan Falk wrote: Hi Martin, I did not think that you were that old, but yes in the beginning of the 1960's and for nuclear power. Hakan At 10:53 PM 9/21/2003, you wrote: I'm sorry for being nostalgic, but haven't we heard about electricity being too cheap to meter? robert luis rabello wrote: -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV Easily record your favorite shows! CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WUMW7B/85qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Water Radiolysis
On Monday, September 22, 2003, at 07:43 AM, Brent S wrote: I will stick to using a battery charger to make hydrogen. I am not a fan of anything radioactive. Could be an interesting way to take advantage of all those radioactive wastes. Alpha particles are pretty benign once they get absorbed by something (like water). Endless H2 for free..-K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen Economy
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:34:15 -0400, you wrote: I'm not that old Hakan, but I still hear it echoing. Energy will never get that cheap unless there is an abundance like you say, and then only if their is competition. (both) The abundance could I think only take place in a world or national or local economy where demand was sensitive to price and became more modest. One could go through a period of such cheapness, although I think eventually demand, seeing that price is so cheap, might rise to bring it up. You could argue that the first one hundred years or more of the electric power industry has had the price of electricity reflect in some ways an under-pricing because in some cases payment for negative externalities has been put off to others, or put off to the future. Another thought that keeps occurring to me is that providing energy, or any other sustainable resource, to a given population would be easier if the population were not growing by leaps and bounds. I think some progress has been made in birth control technologies and practices over the last few decades, but I hope that more progress is made, giving parents better control of if and when to choose to have children. This is in part an economic decision (for some). Ultimately, if population on the globe were to grow with no end in sight then it's not possible, in my view, to define any sustainable solutions to provide basic needs to that population. Hakan Falk wrote: Hi Martin, I did not think that you were that old, but yes in the beginning of the 1960's and for nuclear power. Hakan At 10:53 PM 9/21/2003, you wrote: I'm sorry for being nostalgic, but haven't we heard about electricity being too cheap to meter? robert luis rabello wrote: -- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: Control live television Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/aUMW7B/A6qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy
Hi, I allready make ethanol ( well, I don't but the yeast does ). I intend to use it for making BD I'm interested in making H2 out of water as a way of storing surplus solar energy, or perhaps drive a petrol car on it. In Holland ( probably also in US ) we have many cars driving on LPG ( liquified petroleum gas ), wich maybe also can drive on H2. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy What I don't understand is why, in addition to experiments with making Hydrogen, folks don't also seem to be experimenting with going further than that. Why not make ethanol and methane and so forth? Hydrogen has a drawback in that it's a gas at room temperature. So, if you're experimenting at home trying to devise a chemical means of storing energy, is this ideal? If you could take the H2 and somehow immediately combine it with Carbon and Oxygen in such a way as to make Ethanol or Methanol, then you could use those liquids more at your own liesure? There are plenty of other molecules you could experiment with. I'm just suggesting as a matter of principle there's no reason (no good one that I can see) to just stop at H2. Sure, it could require extra energy to get to other chemical products, but the advantages (such as easier storage) might be worth it, and we don't know yet if the amount of energy would be prohibitive. MM On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:51:53 +0900, you wrote: Hi all, I would like to try some experiments on hydrogen. First : What is the best way to make it out of water ? What electrodes should I use, so they don't go in solution ? What electrolite should I use ? Is there a link where I can find some information for beginners on this item ? By the way : I have been driving over 100.000 km on BD now, without any problems at all. Just great! Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands Dag Pieter Caveman Chemistry previously had a nice description and slide show of producing Chlorine, Hydrogen, and Lye from table salt, using PET bottles, flashlight batteries, glue and stuff. Wire electrodes would be corroded by the lye and chlorine. We could use gold or platinum wire, but the poor man's inert electrode is carbon. The easiest place to get carbon electrodes is from a flashlight battery. It is imperative that you use ordinary flashlight batteries, not alkaline batteries, since alkaline batteries put the zinc in the center and the carbon on the outside. Ordinary flashlight batteries have a carbon rod down the middle and a zinc can on the outside. Now that site has changed, and I can't find this section there anymore. http://cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/index.html Caveman Chemistry Only these: http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali2.html http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali.html Here's the previous text though, below, without the slide show, hope it makes sense. regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV Easily record your favorite shows! CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WUMW7B/85qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy - next step to Hydrogen econom y
This is how I see the next step to a Hdydrogen economy. H2 gas would be used to store electical power generated at non peak times (from midnight to say 5:00 am), then this H2 gas would be used to generated power during peak loading to reduce the need for large generator upgrades. At first H2 would be burned to produce power but with new technology I see banks of fuel cells generating power and waste heat that could be used to heat local building, homes, etc. Then as more H2 to generated at off peak times, pipelines could expand the use of H2 in other fuel cell units. Tom -Original Message- From: Pieter Koole [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:21 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy Hi, I allready make ethanol ( well, I don't but the yeast does ). I intend to use it for making BD I'm interested in making H2 out of water as a way of storing surplus solar energy, or perhaps drive a petrol car on it. In Holland ( probably also in US ) we have many cars driving on LPG ( liquified petroleum gas ), wich maybe also can drive on H2. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy What I don't understand is why, in addition to experiments with making Hydrogen, folks don't also seem to be experimenting with going further than that. Why not make ethanol and methane and so forth? Hydrogen has a drawback in that it's a gas at room temperature. So, if you're experimenting at home trying to devise a chemical means of storing energy, is this ideal? If you could take the H2 and somehow immediately combine it with Carbon and Oxygen in such a way as to make Ethanol or Methanol, then you could use those liquids more at your own liesure? There are plenty of other molecules you could experiment with. I'm just suggesting as a matter of principle there's no reason (no good one that I can see) to just stop at H2. Sure, it could require extra energy to get to other chemical products, but the advantages (such as easier storage) might be worth it, and we don't know yet if the amount of energy would be prohibitive. MM On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:51:53 +0900, you wrote: Hi all, I would like to try some experiments on hydrogen. First : What is the best way to make it out of water ? What electrodes should I use, so they don't go in solution ? What electrolite should I use ? Is there a link where I can find some information for beginners on this item ? By the way : I have been driving over 100.000 km on BD now, without any problems at all. Just great! Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands Dag Pieter Caveman Chemistry previously had a nice description and slide show of producing Chlorine, Hydrogen, and Lye from table salt, using PET bottles, flashlight batteries, glue and stuff. Wire electrodes would be corroded by the lye and chlorine. We could use gold or platinum wire, but the poor man's inert electrode is carbon. The easiest place to get carbon electrodes is from a flashlight battery. It is imperative that you use ordinary flashlight batteries, not alkaline batteries, since alkaline batteries put the zinc in the center and the carbon on the outside. Ordinary flashlight batteries have a carbon rod down the middle and a zinc can on the outside. Now that site has changed, and I can't find this section there anymore. http://cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/index.html http://cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/index.html Caveman Chemistry Only these: http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali2.html http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali2.html http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali.html http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chchloralkali.html Here's the previous text though, below, without the slide show, hope it makes sense. regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy
Pieter Koole wrote: Hi, I allready make ethanol ( well, I don't but the yeast does ). I intend to use it for making BD I'm interested in making H2 out of water as a way of storing surplus solar energy, or perhaps drive a petrol car on it. In Holland ( probably also in US ) we have many cars driving on LPG ( liquified petroleum gas ), wich maybe also can drive on H2. With enough money, any internal combustion engine can be modified to run hydrogen. The bigger question is: How much money will it take? If you are considering electrolysis, please understand that at 100% efficiency, 8.3 kilowatt hours of electrical power will be used in generating the energy equivalent of 1 liter of gasoline. Most commercial electrolyzers operate at efficiencies considerably lower than this, but you will not be able to buy one. As for home made models, no electrolyzer I've ever built does better than about 25% efficiency, and I've been investigating hydrogen for MANY years. That means a home made electrolyzer will require something like 33 kWh to produce the energy equivalent in 1 liter of gasoline. (At current electrical rates in British Columbia, this would cost $2.16 per liter equivalent, BEFORE compressing the gas!) Surplus solar electricity is simply too valuable for this kind of waste. Unless you are very rich, or happen to own property with a BIG creek and more power from a hydro system than you know what to do with, (I am aware of only one such situation here in British Columbia, where high head streams are more common than many other places of the world.) the energy required to produce hydrogen by electrolysis is too expensive. Propane fuel delivery systems can be modified to deliver hydrogen, but I've never tried and wouldn't recommend messing with pressure tanks unless you're fully qualified to do so. A propane tank will typically hold less than 10% of what the high pressure natural gas tanks will hold, so using propane tanks for hydrogen will deliver very little range. In many ways ethanol is a BETTER fuel than hydrogen. If there are no legal hurdles to overcome, ethanol is easier to do and a LOT less expensive. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hydrogen Economy
Well, I respect the fact that you and others here already make ethanol, and other similarly useful chemicals, generally from biomass or pre-existing H-C-O bonds and other chemically bonded atoms. What I'm trying to get at is that, working from the second type of motivation, where you have a more primal energy source that hasn't yet been harnessed by nature into biomass, via photosynthesis or the like, we have this human attempt to harness that energy... sort of to bypass photosynthesis or do artificial photosynthesis. But all these attempts to harness energy (a good example is your example of a desire to harness solar energy, perhaps for use in a car or whatever other use you want) seem to focus on either battery storage or H2 storage. Why H2? So many of the folks in this biofuel group have developed this expertise in manipulating various chemicals. I wonder if you have as a basic starting point solar energy and water and a few other things, if you could make ethanol (for example), rather than having to start with biomass. On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:20:59 +0200, you wrote: Hi, I allready make ethanol ( well, I don't but the yeast does ). I intend to use it for making BD I'm interested in making H2 out of water as a way of storing surplus solar energy, or perhaps drive a petrol car on it. In Holland ( probably also in US ) we have many cars driving on LPG ( liquified petroleum gas ), wich maybe also can drive on H2. Met vriendelijke groeten, Pieter Koole Netherlands What I don't understand is why, in addition to experiments with making Hydrogen, folks don't also seem to be experimenting with going further than that. Why not make ethanol and methane and so forth? Hydrogen has a drawback in that it's a gas at room temperature. So, if you're experimenting at home trying to devise a chemical means of storing energy, is this ideal? If you could take the H2 and somehow immediately combine it with Carbon and Oxygen in such a way as to make Ethanol or Methanol, then you could use those liquids more at your own liesure? There are plenty of other molecules you could experiment with. I'm just suggesting as a matter of principle there's no reason (no good one that I can see) to just stop at H2. Sure, it could require extra energy to get to other chemical products, but the advantages (such as easier storage) might be worth it, and we don't know yet if the amount of energy would be prohibitive. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Synthetic Oil
Hi Aidan, Here is my little input. Oil condition is driven by fuel quality and engine hours. Properties of fuel and combustion effect quality of oil in operation. Filter performance gets better as the hours tick away until you get to the point of maximum differential allowed by the manufacturers (Before by-pass). On larger engines for power generation applications this differential (inlet/outlet pressure) is monitored. On larger engines oil is never changed only made up, as separate cleaning via centrifugal equipment removes the particles that cause filter blockage. On most of the more modern diesel engine power applications cartridge or throw away filters are no longer used. Edge-filters are used and back flushed. Only consumable item is the oil, when it is burnt during combustion or removed as a sludge from the filter unit. Peter From: A Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 5:33 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Synthetic Oil Hello, Just my two cents on the issue of synthetic oil. Just to give you a little background on my knowledge of oil. I started an oil additive/friction reducer business about a year ago and in that time I have spent many many hours searching on the net and talking with mechanics, oil sales people, and average users. Don't fall into the trap of synthetic oils. They are better because the company makes more money! Change your oil on a regular basis and use a good filter. There are many reasons why you need to change your oil on a regular basis and none of them can be solved by more expensive oil any better than simply changing your oil often. The filter is the single most important part of an oil system. Some go into bypass mode early in life leaving your engine prone to abrasive particles and others clog too easily starving your engine of oil. Just my two cents. Aidan Wilkins Co-Owner MotorKote of Canada (519)-768-0948 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: geoff To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 1:57 PM Subject: [biofuel] Synthetic Oil I have been using Neo for many years Works great and they have many diffrernt types of oil http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/ Check it out Geoff Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705 083269:HM/A=1706996/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http:/www.ediets.com/start.cfm?co de=30509media=atkins click here http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egrou pmail/S=:HM/A=1706996/rand=941928269 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Good car to buy?????
Mike Barnett wrote: I have a Mitsubishi 4x4 L 200 truck. It has a turbo installed. Can I too, convert easily to biodiesel? Yes. I have it on good authority from owners of mid 1980's Ford Ranger trucks with the little Mitsubishi turbodiesels in them that they are very good little engines as long as you can keep the turbocharger well oiled. AP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Alternative home heat: Compost heating
Hi Hakan Keith, Using compost or rather animal manure for space heating is a very old method. If you study old traditional farm buildings in colder climates, you will most of the time find ways of using the heat generated. The simple and most used way is to stack the manure against walls that directly transported the heat to the living space. This IS an old traditional farm building in a colder climate... but you have to go much further north to find energy-efficient old buildings. Here they huddled round a little island of heat created in the middle of the living room and otherwise just suffered. Elsewhere, I guess the traditional hotbed for growing vegetables is one of the commonest uses of manure heat - there are details here: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/device/devices6.html These are all direct-heating methods though, not suitable for us, and we'd need a lot more livestock anyway. By the sound of it, Caroline also only has chickens, probably not enough for this sort of application. Cheap plastic hoses are very sufficient in transporting heat from a compost to a living space. They have resistance for temperatures below 60 degree Celsius and will work well. You can use the same pipes under a floor, to create a large radiant surface and with the house floor above the compost you will not need pumps etc. I'm thinking of under-floor heating but it'll take a lot of water, much more than the compost would provide. You do mean the level of the house floor would be higher than the level of the compost? I think you puzzled Caroline. In your case, with poor insulation, large radiant surfaces is the best and most efficient way to achieve comfort at low air temperatures. An other question is dimensioning and if the composts are large enough to provide the heat in the space size. That is the question, yes. You will anyway get a base portion of useful energy for nearly nothing. Yes! For nothing maybe, except time and labour, if I can get away with only using recycled junk. Thanks Hakan. regards Keith Hakan At 12:58 PM 9/21/2003, you wrote: Hi Caroline snip Then there's a constant 60+ deg C heat supply from two one-cubic-metre compost piles (in series), So how exactly are you harvesting this heat to heat a home? We're not, yet - as I said, it's one of a number of heat sources we'll be harnessing this winter. It won't be enough to heat a home. Especially not this home. Which isn't exactly a home, it's a sort of barn/shed/workshop/studio/lecture room/office with some living space in between, and it's quite big, and extremely energy-inefficient (it's a 100-year-old traditional farmhouse that's been more or less neglected for 30 years) - not too bad in summer, really bad in winter. The compost heat will help, even though it's not nearly enough. As I said there are a lot of bits in the puzzle and we'll figure out how to fit them together as we go along. It might be more effective to use some or all of the compost heat to heat the biogas digester, for instance. At any rate we'll use it to heat water, and use the hot water for whatever. I have used the heat of a compost pile before, but not systematically. But it works. I always make compost, wherever I am, and for years I wondered why nobody used the heat, but I wasn't in a situation where I needed it or would have been able to use it. Then a few years ago I found that some people at least were using compost heat, at last. One system coils plastic hosepipe into the pile as it's built up and uses convection to move the hot water. A bit primitive, but that'll work. We'll do something similar. At least one of the two piles is always above 60 deg C (up to 75 deg C). The weather doesn't make any difference, it can be well below freezing but they'll still get hot. Yes, I know, each time I say this someone objects: Not where I live, it's much too cold here, it just freezes. Sorry, but that's tantamount to saying: I don't know how to make compost. Then they might propose getting it to work by providing an external heat source to heat it up artificially. Nope, that's not how compost works. There's a photograph in the Rodale Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening of someone making compost in the snow. Been there, done that. How much heat does a composter produce? In other words, how much can you harvest before you kill it? I'm not even sure that's a real question - it is a physical process, oxidation of carbon, a slow fire, but it's biologically driven: given the moisture and the air supply the microbugs will go on doing it until the C:N ratio stabilises (from about 30:1 to maybe 10:1 or something). But if you take too much heat out the temperature could fall below the thermophilic level and go mesophilic, no use for thermophilic bugs. This is something we need to learn more about, and that's our real purpose here now, more than just to heat our house. This is the final trial-run
Re: [biofuel] Alternative home heat: Water heating
Hi again Hakan This is all good sound advice, but we can't do it. Not enough manure unless we get some cows, and there's no way to build a masonry stove here without some major changes. Or maybe a different house altogether... The floor is two feet off the ground, bare earth underneath, and there aren't any walls, just sliding doors (wood and paper) dividing the rooms internally, and one-metre corridors down each side of the house with sliding doors inside and out, a bit like an enclosed verandah, but the outer doors have thin glass and thin wood (4mm) instead of paper. It's not possible to insulate the place either, or at least not much. When it was -10 C here in January-February we kept most of the doors closed and tried to cut some of the drafts by hanging blankets everywhere. It worked a bit. Keith, Again, if we look at old farm houses, the compost or manure was used for space heating and this is very logical. It is a constant source of heat and works well when the heat is needed. The need for energy storage is minimized. So use this features for space heating. For hot water, a common method was deposits that was built into the chimney construction, originally filled and emptied manually. Since hot water supply is both the feature used and the storage for itself, it is better to supply it from intermittent energy sources as solar or cooking activities. I've just posted this in a separate message, King of Green Gold, but no harm saying it again, it's relevant here - new upload: Jean Pain: France's King of Green Gold -- Frenchman Jean Pain built a home-made power plant that supplies 100% of the his energy needs. The core of the system is a 50-ton compost mound, three metres high and six across, made of pulverized tree limbs and underbrush. Buried inside the compost is a 4-cubic-metre sealed steel tank 3/4-full of the same compost, producing methane -- bio-gas. Tubes connect the tank to a pile of 24 truck-tyre inner tubes, the gas reservoir. Pain uses the gas to cook all the food, fuel a truck and produce electricity, via a methane-fuelled internal combustion engine that turns a generator. Another tube runs from a well and into the heap, with 200 metres of tubing wound round the tank, the water emerging at 60 deg C at 4 litres a minute, enough for central heating, the bathroom and the kitchen. The compost heap continues fermenting for nearly 18 months, and then yields 50 tons of natural fertilizer. (With thanks to Ramjee Swaminathan.) http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/methane_pain.html The most effective would be a construction like a masonry stove, with the hot water deposit in it. Like the old traditional farm buildings. The surfaces of the stove will provide for additional space heating. We have a very interesting investigation of an old Swedish log house with masonry stove and corresponding simulations that verifies how it works with storage and energy flows. Some day I will translate and publish it. If you can build a sort of masonry construction in your house, it will also work well with the lack of insulation. It is mainly radiant heating. They knew what they were doing before the fossil fuel age. Yes they did. But it depends on the climate zone too. Here, and also where I farmed previously in Wiltshire in southern England, you can still take a sloppy attitude to winter and it probably won't kill you. That was an old house, more than 400 years old, a workers cottage, and it was always cold except in the hottest months (warmer months, let's say, it's not exactly hot). Rather than heating the house their philosophy was to have an island of heat in one room or maybe two, a woodstove or a small fireplace, and huddle in the island. Of course His Lordship the Landowner's big house wasn't like that at all. I guess our problem was we just didn't know our place... If you use wood gasifier stove, you could burn the coal in a masonry stove with hot water deposit. You could also charge the hot water deposit from solar panel. Interesting exercises in sustainable building, whish I could do it. It's limited, what we can do here, but it's interesting anyway. I don't want to do anything that will mean changing the house, or not much anyway. And it's double-purpose for us - to stay warm, sure, but also to use technology we'll be using on our route. There are cold places, up in the mountains, but they're mostly tropical countries. Generally, less need for heating, more need for energy. Thanks again Hakan. Regards Keith Hakan At 12:58 PM 9/21/2003, you wrote: Hi Caroline snip At any rate we'll use it to heat water, and use the hot water for whatever. I have used the heat of a compost pile before, but not systematically. But it works. I always make compost, wherever I am, and for years I wondered why nobody used the heat, but I wasn't in a situation where I needed it or would have been able to use it. Then a few years ago I found that
[biofuel] King of Green Gold
Biofuel list member Ramjee Swaminathan sent me this a while ago, finally managed to get it processed and uploaded - should be of much interest: Jean Pain: France's King of Green Gold -- Frenchman Jean Pain built a home-made power plant that supplies 100% of the his energy needs. The core of the system is a 50-ton compost mound, three metres high and six across, made of pulverized tree limbs and underbrush. Buried inside the compost is a 4-cubic-metre sealed steel tank 3/4-full of the same compost, producing methane -- bio-gas. Tubes connect the tank to a pile of 24 truck-tyre inner tubes, the gas reservoir. Pain uses the gas to cook all the food, fuel a truck and produce electricity, via a methane-fuelled internal combustion engine that turns a generator. Another tube runs from a well and into the heap, with 200 metres of tubing wound round the tank, the water emerging at 60 deg C at 4 litres a minute, enough for central heating, the bathroom and the kitchen. The compost heap continues fermenting for nearly 18 months, and then yields 50 tons of natural fertilizer. (With thanks to Ramjee Swaminathan.) http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/methane_pain.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Good car to buy?????
I have a Mitsubishi 4x4 L 200 truck. It has a turbo installed. Can I too, convert easily to biodiesel? Mike JAMAICA. Hello Mike Biodiesel is great for ANY diesel, no conversion needed. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html Biodiesel: Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Make your own biodiesel: Journey to Forever Three choices 1. Mixing it 2. Straight vegetable oil 3. Biodiesel Biodiesel Where do I start? What's next? The process Our first biodiesel Biodiesel from new oil Biodiesel from waste oil Washing Using biodiesel How much methanol? Ethyl esters -- making ethanol biodiesel Reclaiming excess methanol More about lye How much lye to use? Basic titration Better titration Accurate measurements pH meters Phenolphthalein High FFA levels Deacidifying WVO No titration? The basic lye quantity -- 3.5 grams? Mixing the methoxide Test batches Stock methoxide solution How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? PET bottle mixers Viscosity testing How the process works What are Free Fatty Acids? Which method to use? Quality Quality testing Other uses Identifying plastics Separating glycerine/FFAs ... and the rather vast collective knowledge and experience of this list, and a huge archives covering everything about biodiesel, and much besides: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Best Keith - Original Message - From: jeffreyjkeith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 10:58 AM Subject: [biofuel] Good car to buy? I'm looking to buy an older diesel car in which to eventually start running biodiesel in. I'm a student, so it has to be low$$$. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jeff Vancouver, BC, CANADA Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Special Sale: 50% off ReplayTV Easily record your favorite shows! CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WUMW7B/85qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] New Athena Project a Sustainable Energy Policy Planning Process
September 22, 2003 For immediate release The New Athena Project, a Sustainable Energy Policy Planning Process This project is inviting representatives from environmental and scientific communities in concert with business interests, public policy experts and other stakeholders to participate in a process to develop a Sustainable Energy Policy Plan to be offered to all candidates running for political office. The New Athena Project seeks to promote a Sustainable Energy Policy that has global environmental sustainability as its first priority in answer to similar planning documents being offered by current controlling commercial interests who formulate their plans and goals based on sustaining economic status quo with control and dominance of the world energy marketplace as a first priority, while marginalizing environmental consequences in favor of economic development. Eleven basic discussion topics have been defined and presented online at http://www.fuelandfiber.com/Athena. Each is linked to a board in the New Athena discussion forum to allow interested parties an opportunity to help shape the Sustainable Energy Policy that is offered to all candidates for political office. Visit http://www.fuelandfiber.com/Athena for more details and to participate in the process. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ReplayTV: CNet Ranked #1 over Tivo! Instant Replay Pause live TV. Special Sale: 50% off! http://us.click.yahoo.com/UUMW7B/.5qGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] New Athena Project a Sustainable Energy Policy Planning Process
Good idea. On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 01:13:03 -, you wrote: September 22, 2003 For immediate release The New Athena Project, a Sustainable Energy Policy Planning Process This project is inviting representatives from environmental and scientific communities in concert with business interests, public policy experts and other stakeholders to participate in a process to develop a Sustainable Energy Policy Plan to be offered to all candidates running for political office. The New Athena Project seeks to promote a Sustainable Energy Policy that has global environmental sustainability as its first priority in answer to similar planning documents being offered by current controlling commercial interests who formulate their plans and goals based on sustaining economic status quo with control and dominance of the world energy marketplace as a first priority, while marginalizing environmental consequences in favor of economic development. Eleven basic discussion topics have been defined and presented online at http://www.fuelandfiber.com/Athena. Each is linked to a board in the New Athena discussion forum to allow interested parties an opportunity to help shape the Sustainable Energy Policy that is offered to all candidates for political office. Visit http://www.fuelandfiber.com/Athena for more details and to participate in the process. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Remanufactured Ink Cartridges Refill Kits at MyInks.com for: HP $8-20. Epson $3-9, Canon $5-15, Lexmark $4-17. Free s/h over $50 (US Canada). http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=6351 http://us.click.yahoo.com/0zJuRD/6CvGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
