RE: [biofuel] building a diesel powered motorcycle
Hi folks i believe that there used to be a diesel motorbike available in the UK made by Honda i have never seen one but would love to find one. Steve Welham UK -Original Message- From: Doug Foskey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 June 2004 11:12 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] building a diesel powered motorcycle No. It is the Indian manufactured Enfield, with a 350cc diesel engine fitted. I am not sure if it is OEM, or aftermarket. regards Doug On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 11:49 am, Peer Plaut wrote: Does royal enfield make a diesel? i saw them advertsiing in a magazine peer Original Message --- htmlbody tt I am looking for plans for a diesel motorcycle. It does not have to be a large bike, just something to get me to work and back.Ê I came across the bio fuel web site and I think it is a great idea, Making your own fuel.Ê Now I just need to find the way to make an inexpensive motorcycle.Ê I know Royal Enfield sells one for app. $4,000.00 US dollars.Ê I want a recycled bike.Ê Any help will be appreciated.BR BR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]BR BR BR /tt brbr tt Biofuel at Journey to Forever:BR a href=http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html;http://journeytoforever.org /biofuel.html/aBR BR Biofuels list archives:BR a href=http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/;http://infoarchivenet/sgroup/ biofuel//aBR BR Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.BR To unsubscribe, send an email to:BR [EMAIL PROTECTED]/tt brbr br !-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -- table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2 tr bgcolor=#CC td align=centerfont size=-1 color=#003399bYahoo! Groups Sponsor/b/font/td /tr tr bgcolor=#FF td align=center width=470table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 tr td align=centerfont face=arial size=-2ADVERTISEMENT/fontbra href=http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=1299hbv9j/M=295196.4901138.60713053001176/D=g roups/S=1705083269:HM/EXP=1086139819/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://co m panion.yahoo.com alt=img src=http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_companion/lrec_companion_ 043004.gif alt=click here width=300 height=250 border=0/a/td/tr/table /td /tr trtdimg alt= width=1 height=1 src=http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=grou ps/S=:HM/A=2128215/rand=963534118/td/tr /table !-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -- !-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -- br tthr width=500 bYahoo! Groups Links/bbr ul liTo visit your group on the web, go to:bra href=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/;http://groups.yahoo.com/group /biofuel//abrÊ liTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:bra href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]biofu [EMAIL PROTECTED]/abr liYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the a href=http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/;Yahoo! Terms of Service/a. /ul /tt /br !-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -- /body/html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links __ NOD32 1.778 (20040601) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.nod32.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans
Kevin , I can't offer you very much help on this one - I've been on the lookout for the same plans myself recently but have not come across very much specifically on condensers . I gather from what I've read that most people channel the methanol vapours through a coil which sits in a bath of cold water. I've also read references to air cooling the coil with a fan but the water cooling seems to be favoured as more efficient. The water in the bath will need to be cooled. i guess if you had a large holding tank circulating water through the cooling bath, the hotter water returning to the large tank would release its heat to the surrounding environment . Apologies - this may be one of those things that is easier done than said. The guy with the Touchless Processor - http://home.swbell.net/scrof/Biod_Proc.html uses a coaxial pipe system - a small pipe sitting inside a larger one - the vapours run through the small pipe and a jacket of cold water circulates through the larger one. he reckons this system, though simple, is very effective. Please let me know if you find anything useful. m -Original Message- From: Kevin Shea [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 June 2004 06:38 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans Journey's website has lot's of info, but have not found any detailed plans to construct a condenser to recover methanol. (unless I missed it?) Can anyone point me in the directions to construct a condenser to process 5-20 gal of biodiesel waste (Glycerin, Methanol,etc) and convert to usable methanol again? Pictures appreciated Thank you, Kevin Shea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links ** Th contents of this e-mail (including attachments)are private and confidential and may also be subject to legal privilege. It is intended only for the use of the addressee. If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you may not copy or deliver this e-mail or any attachments to anyone else or make any use of its contents; you should not read any part of this e-mail or any attachments. Unauthorised disclosure or communication or other use of the contents of this e-mail or any part thereof may be prohibited by law and may constitute a criminal offence. If you receive this e-mail by mistake please notify the system manager @ +353-1-647-2417. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of known computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] What went wrong?
Well, my first test batch is done, and the end result is less than spectacular. Wondering if anyone has any ideas. I completed the second stage as instructed. 1/2 of my methoxide in, mix for 5 minutes, heat to 130 F, add the remaining methoxide and mix hot until nice golden amber. This only took about 10 minutes, and I continued mixing for a total of 15. Since the instructions say it will take one and a half to two hours, I think this may be one place that things went wrong, although the appearance when I finished was just as described. I let the mixture settle in an old 2 liter soda bottle for about 6 hours, and it looked exactly like the pictures on the JTF web site. Clear, golden amber layer on top with dark glycerol on the bottom. I called the test batch a great success and went on to wash my new biodiesel, which is where the problem came up. I put about 1/3 liter water in a clean 2 liter bottle, decanted the biodiesel on top of it, then shook. I probably shook a little vigorously, but with the assumption that the foolproof method would leave me with product which could withstand this type of washing. What I have now is a cloudy, murky yellow layer of nearly one liter followed by a guhky layer looking most like old soap scum and then a small amount of cloudy water. Since the middle layer looks like soap scum, I am assuming that is exactly what it is. I assume also that the upper layer is biodiesel with water still in it, and may clear eventually. The bottom layer is obviously water with the water soluble leftovers from the biodiesel process. My take on the problem is that either I did not heat and stir long enough in stage two, overheated in stage one or agitated too vigorously in the wash stage. I think it is probably a combination of not enough processing in stage two and overzealous agitation in washing that caused the problem. Any other thoughts? Brian Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel]
Woah, I wasn't expecting replies like this. I would like to remind Todd and everyone else that if we watch and believe what we see on the news, we ARE believing what we see and/or read. Don't forget that the mainstream media is generally aligned with the left, and I'm confident that we aren't getting the whole story-unfortunately (and probably still wouldn't get it if they were aligned with the right). What I sent was an article forwarded from another source; it is hard for me believe 100% of what it is saying, but I feel the same way when I watch the news at night. The real problem is that we are not getting the whole story. BUT I am confident about one thing! When I go to the pump and fill up my car (28 mpg diesel) and my motorcycle (42 mpg awesome lookin' Harley Night Train, by the way), I still can't help but feel that I am funding a terrorist organization. In my local paper just the other week, a journalist broke down the [local] cost of gasoline. A whole $.99 per gallon goes to OPEC, or whomever supplied the crude oil. Of course one barrel only produces so much gasoline; the rest is used for other things. One dollar per gallon to an untrustworthy source. Can we trust the Saudis? I think not. My whole point is that until we stop buying crude from the Arab world, until we become self sufficient with our fuel, until we put money into our own pockets, we are at risk of our money being used against us. If the article were totally made up from some maniac as crazy as the terrorists themselves, one can't deny that they [the terrorists] are fanatical and unstable, want the USA and any other non-muslim group out of their countries, and will continue to plan to undo us and kill us with smiles on their faces. When we cut off their supply of money, they will go broke and we will [hopefully] be a little safer. We can all start by getting involved as WE ALL HERE are doing-educating ourselves on how to make our own cleaner [in more ways than one] fuel. Young Master Joseph Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: The clash of civilizations and the Great Caliphate
Yes jkolling, a nice pun it is! But I think (I hope) that some of the reason we are over in Iraq is to suppress the terrorist activity. It doesn't seem that way at times though. Bush actually creates an environment for these types of things to florish. -If he doesn't achieve his goals, but then what are his goals. The truth is that I don't think that anybody knows but him. After all, he IS a politician-just like Kerry. I personally don't trust any politician, and hope that when I vote it is for the lessor of two evils. And Keith, thank you for the quotes. Scary; Abraham sounds like he's fanatical. I don't see anything wrong with 'the Green Movement.' He sounds like someone with a hidden agenda like the rest of the politicians. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Todd, Obviously what is ugly and hateful to me are legitimate and acceptable to you. I saw very little discussion of facts in this thread and very much Zionist bashing propaganda. Know your sources of information, question it's authenticity. I do not see my attack as unwarranted, spreading these vile lies is reason for attack. These lies are responsible for the deaths of millions of Jews and other people (Christian Clergy, Gays , Gypsies, Communists..) Yes, little children know better , they never stop questioning. As for my apology , it was directed at the mostly good people on this list who have to suffer this thread. Arthur Appal Energy wrote: Arthur Sauerhaft, How about putting a muzzle on your ugly and hateful comments? Discussing or airing perceptions, perspectives and viewpoints is not being ugly or hateful. On the other hand, your intentionally derogatory personal attacks are and your bitter and unwarranted assault further substantiates the general perception of the radical nature of Zionism and -ists. As for your apology? No. It is not accepted, as you knew from the onset how far in the wrong you were going to be, yet you didn't care. Little children know better. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: arthur sauerhaft [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith I am reposting this because I accidently coppied all/most of the previous posting and was added to the end. I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR WASTING BANDWIDTH ON THIS RANT, PLEASE FORGIVE ME Luc, I am Jewish and I am a Zionist. I have tried to stay out of this ugly hateful thread but I find myself swept in because of your twisting of truths and binding them to lies. Jews who are not Zionists can mostly be divided into two groups, those that are not Zionist for theoligical reasons tied into the coming of the Messiah (like Rabbi Teitelbaum) , and left wing liberals who in my opinion care less about remaining Jewish and more about being respected in their circles as politically correct Humanists. This is material for another thread on another list. Rabbi Teitlebaum is more concerned about his small Chasidic sect being the subject of secular Jewish rulings that do not coincide with his interpretation of trditional Jewish law. I, as an observant Jew respect his opinion but I do not agree with it. I would also argue that most Jews, secular and observant, are Zionists to different degrees. There are many different definitions within the Jewish community about what Zionism is , but the central belief is that Israel, as a Jewish state has the right to exist. What it's borders are and how it is governed is another debate. Your exceptional naivete (to be generous) and your insensitivity to regarding your previous posting quoting things like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion just proves your ignorance. These documents are proven scams and hate literature. I am suprised you do not quote Mein Kampf(sp?) and proclaim Hitler and the Grand Inquisitors as tellers of great truths. You also probably wake up each morning(after checking the horizon for the black helicopters of the Apocalypse) looking for a reason why your own life is unsatifactory and blame anyone but yourself. It is so easy to imagine all the forces of the world conspired against you rather than working out real solutions to your own shortcomings. Yes , Luc this is personal , people like you spread hatred and kill far more people than silly land grabs and commodity wars ever will. Luc, you must take your name really seriously, spreading hatred and lies to the ignorant, isn't your name short for Lucifer. -Arthur Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Actually Luc was telling many lies about Jewish theology. Talmud is in fact a written commentaries to Torah. It was created over the centuries by some of the greatest minds. If you go to any bookstore you can buy it there. There is an oral law as well, which was recorded into books many hundreds of years ago, you can buy them in a bookstore. This oral law deals with many very complex issues , and there is nothing of the appalling things Luc was telling about. So much for interesting theological facts. In this respect I also keep thinking of an entity called a great deceiver, the one who is here to maim, kill and destroy. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Arthur, I am puzzled, have looked through the thread and have large difficulties to find any I hate the Jews in it. I find some interesting ideological and theological facts in it, but expressed in a respectful and objective way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PVC
HI STEVEN I'M TRIYING TO BUILD MY PROCESSOR AND I NEED SOME IDEASCAN YOU HELP ME. IF YOU HAVE PICTURES I WOULD APRECCIATE YOUR COLABORATION. THANKS. JORGE ESCOBAR - Original Message - From: Steven Pfaff To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] PVC Well Keith, the stuff I'm speaking of is actually white here in the states but it is commonly used for water. More commonly for drainage. So let's hope were thinking of the same thing, It's signifigantly cheaper than steal plumbing. I'm finally getting my first diesel car tomorrow and, I will be making my first test batch before the end of the week. I'm building my processor from Girl Mark's design (it's so darned nice) very soon, you'd be suprised how quickly gave me a used water heater when I told him what I was using it for. Wish me luck, I should be running b100 before the end of the month. Thank you kindly, Steven P.S. I have referred nearly 100 skeptics to the Journey to Forever website. If only half of those check it out and realize how awesome this is I can only imagine what the people on the Journey to Forever have and will accomplish. Best wishes. Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can PVC pipe be used in processing biodiesel, more specifically in Girl Mark's fumeless processor? Hi Steven That's the waterpipes, right? Grey stuff. I use it with biodiesel, for instance as standpipes in the processor and settling tank, where it's exposed to the biodiesel, by-product, excess methanol, no problems. If you're going to do joints and right-angles and so on I don't know how the glue would take it. Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel
Just a quick reply, According to my understanding of the process glycerine does not form until the triglyceride bonds have been broken. (creating esters) are you perhaps asking how to insure a more complete conversion? try removing the glycerinduring the conversion process to make sure that it does not reach a state of equilibrium. there are several ways to remove the free glycerine, good washing, centrifugical separation, polymer resin bed filtration. Phil On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 10:35:38 -0400, Martin Klingensmith wrote: *Irshad, *Please post your results to this list so we can see what you find. I *have been wondering about cracking biodiesel. *Thanks *-- *-- *Martin Klingensmith *http://infoarchive.net/ *http://nnytech.net/ * *irshad ahmed wrote: * Hi, * My name is Irshad and i am a new member to this group.I am a graduate student in Chemical Engineering Dept in University of North Dakota. * I am trying to improve the cold flow properties of Biodiesel so that it can be used in Aviation sector (JP-8).I am trying to improve the cold flow properties by catalytic cracking and thermal cracking.In future we are going to crack soybean oil and bidiesel and then we will compare the results * I would like to know is someone working on this same topic or they have some idea how i can remove major percentage of glycerol from biodiesel (SME) or from raw feed soybean oil which is our our feed for biodiesel. * * All of you have a great weekend, * Thank You, * Irshad * * * * * *Biofuel at Journey to Forever: *http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html * *Biofuels list archives: *http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ * *Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. *To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Yahoo! Groups Links * * * * * [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Sulfur Shuts 500 Shell, Texaco Stations
This is exactly what happened to our 2000 Chevy Venture. My wife called me one day and told me that our mini van was on the side of the road and she didn't know what was wrong with it. We towed it to the nearest repair shop and they said it was the gas gauge. They said to watch the miles unless we wanted to spend $500.00 on the repair. If I get this fixed, knowing what has happened, what is to say that it won't happen again? I don't even live in the South, I live in the Great Lakes region. All the more reason to make your own fuel. At least you know what you're getting. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some lessons here for how a Big Oil Business reacts to inadvertent dissemination of a 'bad batch'? I don't know what the lesson is, only that I'm reading what's happening. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news? tmpl=storycid=509ncid=718e=8u=/ap/20040529/ap_on_bi_ge/sulfur_in_g as By ALAN SAYRE, AP Business Writer NEW ORLEANS - Just before the heavy-driving Memorial Day weekend, more than 500 Shell and Texaco stations in the South have stopped selling gasoline because of high sulfur levels that can ruin vehicle fuel gauges and make an empty tank appear full. The damage done by the bad gasoline could cause some drivers to run out of gas unexpectedly. Also, car owners may have to replace their fuel gauges ÷ a repair job that can easily cost $400 to $600. The tainted gasoline originated at the Motiva Enterprises refinery in Norco, La., according to Shell Oil Co. Motiva is the refining arm of Shell in the East and South. Motiva supplied the gasoline to both Shell and Texaco. The refinery said it is investigating how the high sulfur levels occurred. Sulfur is naturally present in crude oil; some of it is supposed to be removed during refining. As of Friday, 119 Shell and Texaco stations were closed in the New Orleans area, and 400 were not selling fuel in Florida, said Shell spokeswoman Helen Bow. The problem occurred at an especially bad time for gasoline stations, which had been expecting brisk sales, at high prices, ahead of the holiday weekend. The pumps have been off since Wednesday, said Sri Guntaka, a cashier at a Shell station in New Orleans. We've lost a lot of customers, hundreds of them. It's very bad. Gas tanks have a float ball that rises and falls with the fuel level. An electrical system reads the float ball's level and transmits the information to the dashboard fuel gauge. The system uses silver electrical contacts, which can be quickly corroded by sulfur. The problem came to light this week after drivers began complaining about inaccurate fuel gauge readings. Besides the New Orleans area, problem fuel turned up in shipments to Miami, Tampa, Sarasota and Fort Lauderdale, Shell said. Shell is replacing the gasoline at its stations. But Bow did not have an estimate of when all the stations would be pumping again. Don Redman, a spokesman for Louisiana AAA, said that before the shutdown was announced, he fielded several calls from the auto club's members complaining that their gas readings were way off. People have been looking at their odometers because of the high prices and saying, `Hey, wait a minute,' Redman said. Shell said it had received 1,800 queries and 825 claims from people who said their fuel gauges had been affected. Mark Hebert, who lives in Luling, said he filled up at a Shell station on Monday, and 200 miles of driving later, the gauge on his 2002 Impala still read full. I just know it has to be between a quarter and a half full at this point, said Hebert, who submitted a claim to Shell and planned to take his car in next week for a replacement gauge. Guy Valvis, owner of an auto repair shop in Metairie, said he normally handles about two gauge replacements a year. I've fixed three or four here in the last week, and I've got two in here right now, he said Friday. Valvis said the repair job entails draining the fuel and removing the gas tank. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel
Martin, I am sending a copy of our proposal as an email attachment , it is having our results and also what we are going to do in future. I am doing lab set up so that i can start up by experiments as soon as i get results i will post to you. Thank You Irshad Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Irshad, Please post your results to this list so we can see what you find. I have been wondering about cracking biodiesel. Thanks -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ irshad ahmed wrote: Hi, My name is Irshad and i am a new member to this group.I am a graduate student in Chemical Engineering Dept in University of North Dakota. I am trying to improve the cold flow properties of Biodiesel so that it can be used in Aviation sector (JP-8).I am trying to improve the cold flow properties by catalytic cracking and thermal cracking.In future we are going to crack soybean oil and bidiesel and then we will compare the results I would like to know is someone working on this same topic or they have some idea how i can remove major percentage of glycerol from biodiesel (SME) or from raw feed soybean oil which is our our feed for biodiesel. All of you have a great weekend, Thank You, Irshad Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Road tax on Biodiesel??
Hi all I am beginning to brew my own biodiesel and am wondering am I going to run into any trouble with the state (or Feds) of Montana for not paying road tax? What if I sell extra to friends? Thankx Gary Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Bush's Biodiesel Mower
- Cmon.give the Bushman a break fellas, donchya know its election time? he needs that Green vote to win and Naderites love biodiesel . heck ive got a picture of George herbert, the senior bushman ,sitting in an ethanol powered car. Bio diesel will be taken over by the big boys just like they did ethanol... its only logical cause they smell the big bucks.. anyhow... any positive biodiesel news is good news. Marc In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Exerpt from this week's evworld.com: Bush's Biodiesel Mower Just so I don't come off seeming too mean spirited, there is this piece of good news out of Crawford. I don't know if the President played much of a role in the decision to buy a new diesel mower for his Texas home, but according to a recent email from an EV World reader, his foreman, Ken Englebrecht, is burning biodiesel And that's not the only alternative fuel vehicle on the President's retreat. His Ford pickup runs on propane. I had a chance to meet Ken and see the presidential truck at the 2002 Clean Cities national convention in Oklahoma City. It's certainly encouraging to see that someone in the Bush Adminstration takes alternative fuels seriously. Maybe Dubya should consider appointing Ken Englebrecht run the Department of Energy. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Murdoch, Thanks for your suport on some issues and disagreement with others. Just for the record, most Jews don't consider themselves a race, that is an almost ancient way of depicting Jews as physically/spiritually different from the Human race. It is also a major foundation for much Jew hating most recently in the Middle East. Also my remarks refer to Jews who choose to indentify as Jews. respectfully, -Arthur murdoch wrote: On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 11:37:11 +0200, you wrote: Arthur, I am puzzled, have looked through the thread and have large difficulties to find any I hate the Jews in it. I find some interesting ideological and theological facts in it, but expressed in a respectful and objective way. I find no reasons for this nobody likes us postings. They would be more interesting without this below the belt Lucifer things. Hakan I haven't read many posts in this (or other) threads that I entirely agree with, or entirely disagree with. 1. With respect to your response to Arthur's comments, I agree with you that he detracted from his own comments by descending into his personal diatribe. 2. On the other hand I was a little relieved to hear Arthur question Luc's raising of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I stopped reading most of Luc's comments directly not only when he raised this, but given the manner in which he did so, and was disappointed in the group that this and perhaps a few other of his comments were not challenged more strongly. This is not to dismiss everything out-of-hand that Luc has said. If someone wishes to take his comments on a point-by-point basis and separate what they think is the bad from the good, that's their affair. But I do not have much time, and reading his ham-handed attempt to insert that particular topic into what are probably in-need-of-discussion areas was a signal to me that my time could be better spent elsewhere, and if we care about the overall controversial topic, then I thought I might find better reading of it elsewhere. 2A): With respect to the issue of being on the lookout for a I hate the Jews comment, I don't think that a hater or irrational-agenda non-transparent-agenda person (of any sort) is going to make it that easy for us. While you may not have intended for that method to be taken so literally, I think it is worth using your comment as a launching point for spelling this out to be aware that not everyone is going to say everything they think in precisely the terms they think it particularly if it could have them banned or get them ostracized or cause their remarks to be less read. 3. I tend to agree with Keith and Todd and others that generally the unconditional-support-for-Israel by the American Government and Fourth Estate is overdue for public discourse, though I may disagree with them on many or all of the answers that we get or how we should pose the questions. 4. Religion: I regard one's personal religious or philosophic beliefs as arguably the most important aspect of one's life. Others may not agree, explicitly or in their hearts. Some may regard their political orientation (e.g. Conservative, Social Democrat, whatever), or their so-called race (Chinese, White, some variant, whatever... is there even scientifically such a thing if we are all the human race?) or their citizenship (French, Chinese, Nigerian, whatever) as the de facto thing they spent the most time thinking about. Some hobbies or interests may even be elevated to near-supremely-important-to-us status. Others may have a different way of approaching these important questions, speaking about their work, their loved ones, their wealth, their health, etc. But I think some would agree that one's belief system and following it (for want of better words) is the most important thing in one's life. Most of us 6,000,000,000+ on this planet believe that we choose this system, and have the right to change our minds and-or assert at some point when we become adults what we are, and-or what we are not. Some of us us have personal beliefs (or anti-beliefs) which do not fit so readily into the conventional labels frequently provided in press discussions of these issues. I don't know the numbers in part because the mainstream press discussions are so infrequent. But it is not just a matter of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Shinto-ism, Other. That Other may be much bigger and far more robust and diverse than one might glean from such a listing. It may be very non-Theistic for some (including myself). Furthermore, of those who may identify themselves with the prior more well-defined listings, many may or may not in reality practice or believe or be knowledgeable about them. There are many who might have mixed thoughts, or not thoughts, or some variants on those themes. In some countries (including America I think) we generally try to practice the courtesy of allowing a person to say I am
[biofuel] [biofuels] Re: US poll about Iraq war
Hi Keith. Your assumption is not quite right, although your comments remain insightful. I am French-Canadian (canadien), member of a colonized people. Pierre --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Pierre, and all This is all quite correct, but you and Balaji are looking at it from different viewpoints, you from that of the society that did the colonising, which should indeed be working on such self- examination, and he from that of a society that was colonised, which now has to get on with life. ... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Ethanol
My post was realy a comment on the shaping of the public by the media and whoever is trying to push the point from behind the scenes (oil companies?). It just is increcible to me that both sides of the story were not portrayed in a equal manner and the benefits of using a renewable form of enegy was not even mentioned in the campain to remove ethanol from our fuel. Even I was conned to an extent until I did some research and found the journey to forever site and realised that engines are quite happy on ethanol with a change to the fuel system, then stunned that the manufacturers even build cars that are designed to run ethanol with no problems in the States (that isnt told to the Aussie public either) P.S. I love my internal combustion engines and now I know that I can be better for the environment and still play with them. Why push for alternative energy when biofuel is a solution? Biofuels are alternative energies! yes I realise biofuels are alternative energies (perhaps more a renewable energy) although using conventional technology, I kind of was refering to solar, electric vehicles and less so fuel cells (I do believe fuelcells show great potential however) I hope this clears up my point of view. Regards Nick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Interesting Bio-Energy LLC type investment-Business Model
http://lilblumarble.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel Boom Well Timed
An interesting article about the upsurge of BD. Nice to see the efforts of those who have worked so hard come into it's own. You know who you are; Keith, Todd, Girl Mark and many others, it IS having an impact. Keep it up. Luc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] OPEC and the Euro
Apparently, the only place that is being hit by the rising costs of oil are the ones that depend on the US dollar as it's base currency. http://goldmoney.com/en/commentary/2004-02-18.html Should OPEC go en-masse to the Euro (which is what Saddam did) the US economy would crash overnight IMHO.Derrivatives held by J.P.Morgan would all come home to roost and that in and of itself would finish off the US economy as the derrivatives market is absurdly overstretched and the emptying of the 75% of world reseves which are now held in US dollars would absilutely kill the dollar and all economies that are wholly based on it. Contrary to this policy it has been a matter of fact in many third world countries to deal in actual gold, as the gold dinar, rather than in fiat money, so theri economies will not suffer the same amount of disaster many weastern economies will. For a simple understanding that any layman can understand on the fiat money system please visit: http://www.hermes-press.com/econ2.htm Luc Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
You are full of hate and I feel very sorry for you. There are fanatic / extremist views in every religion... and it is simply not productive to hate and blame. Right now we seem to be living in a world where the vast majority of modorit thinking people are being oppressed by the will of extremest elements. Perhaps the reason that so many jews react strongly to this sort of hatful rhetoric is that we have learned throughout the ages to remember the tragidies of the past. It is just this sort of hate speach, that has triggered events such as the holocaust. The Jews have been without a home for the last 2000 years... We have been slaughtered and persecuted and blamed for any number of problems (this latest is not the first time people have declared the Jews to be responsible) throughout this time. Perhaps you can understand why Israel represents something that is so powerful and protected in the Jewish psychy. I would not agree with everything that Israel has done (in fact, I tend to disagree with a great many of her policies), however I have to believe in her right to exist. The Jewish religion is not perfect... Yes many people feel strongly especialy that Jews should not marry outside the religion... It is really the only thing that has allowed the religion to survive 5000 years, almost half of it without a home. At the same time, I am married to a non-jew, and my parents love her dearly. You keep reffering to Jewdiasm as a monolithic block, when you yell about text in the book used to train rabbis... I have laugh... There is no book -- I can only say, that you really have a very superficial understanding of the religion, and leave it at that. MY SOLUTION: I know that 99% of the people on this earth, wish for peace and love. I know that there are extremeist elements in every culture and religion that believe their way of thought is the right way... They are the only real enemy and evil in my book. Take a look at yourself Mr. Biobenz... because you fall into that catagory. - Original Message - From: biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan Dear Matt. History of the Khazars and what the Talmud says is not hate it is historical FACT. I truly am sympathetic to those who suffer needlessly, be they known as jews or Palestinians or others who do not deserve the crimes commited against them, but this does not mitigate FACTS and the FACTS are that those who have set themselves up as the leaders of and spokepeople for the jewish people are Talmudists of the extreme variety and it IS important that people understand the mindset that these criminals use as a justification for their crimes. You don't agree with them, denounce them publickly or appologize for them at every opportunity. Being jewish actually puts you in a greater responsibility about this than I or others who are not called jews, as you are the one being defrauded by this more than I. I KNOW it is a lie and that the teachings of the Talmud ARE NOT the torah or simply a ccommentary. Give me a break. Commentary is one hell of a stretch gettin to where it is ok for adult males to have sex with a three year old female as the hymen will grow back. That is one hell of a commentary all right. From Facts are Facts by Benjamin H. Freedman - The role the Talmud plays in Judaism as it is practiced today is officially stated by the eminent Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer, the Director of Interreligious Activities of The North American Jewish Committee and the President of the Jewish Chaplains Association of the Armed Forces of the United States. In his present capacity as official spokesman for The American Jewish Committee, the self- styled Vatican of Judaism, Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer wrote a most revealing and comprehensive article with the title, What is a Jew which was published as a featured article in Look Magazine in the June 17, 1952 issue. In that article Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer evaluated the significance of the Talmud to Judaism today. In that illuminating treatise on that important subject by the most qualified authority, at the time, Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer stated: The Talmud consists of 63 books of legal, ethical and historical writings of the ancient rabbis. It was edited centuries after the birth of Jesus. It is a compendium of law and lore. IT IS THE LEGAL CODE WHICH FORMS THE BASIS OF THE JEWISH RELIGIOUS LAW and it is THE TEXTBOOK USED IN THE TRAINING OF THE RABBIS: You tell me how it is simply a commentary when it is the cornerstone of jewish rabbinical indoctrination. It is rather the genuine teachings and life motivating factors behind the vast majority of those who call themsleves jews but not to the exclusivity of many who DO NOT believe in the legitimacy of Zionism nor of the Talmud, but DO however lay claim to faith in Torah. http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ contains a
Re: [biofuel] Re: college student lookin for help
i was wondering if anyone has tried to lower the viscosity(thickness) of biofuel and make it more easily combustible? has anyone had problems with mixing biofuel and alcohols? thanx for the feed back! --Beth - Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Biodiesel
I would like to second that. If anyone can help in bringing down the geling point of BD then that would make the need to blend petro diesel for the colder months unecessary, or at least limit it. This making of the BD is a first at chemistry for me (not much of an attention getter in school), so I, like many others, must wait on those with true knowledge in the chems to pioneer advances like these. Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Irshad, Please post your results to this list so we can see what you find. I have been wondering about cracking biodiesel. Thanks -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ irshad ahmed wrote: Hi, My name is Irshad and i am a new member to this group.I am a graduate student in Chemical Engineering Dept in University of North Dakota. I am trying to improve the cold flow properties of Biodiesel so that it can be used in Aviation sector (JP-8).I am trying to improve the cold flow properties by catalytic cracking and thermal cracking.In future we are going to crack soybean oil and bidiesel and then we will compare the results I would like to know is someone working on this same topic or they have some idea how i can remove major percentage of glycerol from biodiesel (SME) or from raw feed soybean oil which is our our feed for biodiesel. All of you have a great weekend, Thank You, Irshad Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: outdoor cooking
I have been wondering about the feasibility of incorporating the outdoor kitchen in a type of roll-out version on a track that could open up into a porch or gazebo type environment for the warm months and stay closed in the cold, although that would almost necessitate a secondary wall section that would follow the rolling out part in order to seal the wall so as not to loose whatever coolness was inside. Maybe the follow along section could have all the cooking utensils attached to it and then it could be useful in either mode ? It sounds neat on paper, but may be a carpenter's nightmare, I not being a carpenter either :) Just a thought. ( I would LOVE to have a go at this on some acreage one day) Luc --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a very interesting discussion. I personally think that a main factor is where you live. I am in Texas, about 125 miles from the gulf so AC is my main energy gobbler. My outdoor kitchen is in use at least 6 months of the year, so it is fully worth the investment of putting in a decent one. If I had the northern 12 weeks of summer, I may feel very different about the expense. I moved to Texas from another extreme environment, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Several things transferred with me. One is a love of airlock style doors. Be it an enclosed porch or whatever, it sure cuts the cost of heating or cooling when the great outdoors does not directly meet your home environment. From reading the posts on this subject, I would guess how organized a person you are will also play a big role. I had to laugh at the post that listed 6 trips in and out to cook a meal. No offence intended, but I don't have time in my life for that sort of waste. I load a tray with everything I need and make 1 trip out and one back in when finished. I do have a sink and counter space. I have an toaster oven, hot plate, propane hot plate and grill all in my kitchen, so there is a degree of convenience that most people do not have. My outdoor kitchen was designed with the house as an integral part of the home. I have a small beverage fridge that lives in my breezeway between the house and the outdoors. This really cuts down on the trips in and out of the house. This fridge is only in operation during the months that the outdoor kitchen is. Another factor that I can see would play a big role is how much and what type of cooking one does. If one is a heat and serve type of cook who buy convenience foods, then the outdoor kitchen would be more of a pain than of use in any climate. At the other extreme, I grind my own wheat and make my own bread. All cooking is from scratch, so my kitchen is in use and generating lots of heat. Another factor might be what other uses you put your kitchen to. I am learning to make soap, I make candles and we practise home butcher. All of these activities generate odors that one may not want in the house, so again the outdoor kitchen is much appreciated. I am a serious fan of designing the house to fit the environment and uses that it will be put to. I believe that in the long run, this does make for a more energy efficient home. Bright Blessings, Kim Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Whence The Fuel For The Indy 500, NASCAR, Etc?
Brendan: Thanks for the various points. The news about the TurboDiesel at Le Mans this year makes me want to watch it June 12-13 (not many races have two days instead of one). http://www.lemans.org/univers_sport/24hauto/live/index_gb.html I wouldn't look at Indy or NASCAR to provide great advancements in fuel/energy technology. That equates to looking at the Republican Party to provide the great leadership in environmental protection! I think there are times when I try to bring attention to a hypocrisy or to a problem, when I don't necessarily expect immediate direct action, but I think good can come from opening the discussion. In the case of both Indy and NASCAR, there's a lot of flag-waving (literally) and I think it would be good to press home the issue of whether or not these series are really doing as much as fans might reasonably expect to advance the various flag-waving-connected causes. They may not realize that while their patriotic feelings are stirred, by some of the spectacle and fanfare, the car-designers and race organizers who are putting on the show are doing much less than is possible -- to improve the vehicles sold to American Consumers, to make America more fuel-independent, to bring innovation-related jobs to their communities. These might be some of the effects of subtle rules alterations which encouraged more innovation-relevant race efforts. Thanks for going over the differences in costs associated with changing fuels versus changes in cars. I've always thought that a racing series I would want to watch might be one where teams are limited by the number of Megajoules they can have to go a given distance... and then we could see who gets there the fastest. But I have to agree that particular approach would not be mainstream-exciting so much as a very interesting academic exercise. You're barking up the wrong tree. Unfortunately, F1 continues to slide toward a heavily spec-rule based system, like the previously mentioned series. F1 may continue to be a leader in materials technology, but the rules require pump gasoline, to keep them more like consumer cars (laughable, isn't it)! I would look to the sports cars (Le Mans series) for emerging technologies. The recent consumer availability of direct injection (DI) engines can be traced directly back to the use of such engines by Audi, which to some extent helped secure their previous victories. 24-hour races like Le Mans also offer a much better test-bed for consumer technology. Without DI, the Bently cars that won last years race wouldn't have been able to compete with the Audis. The reason: fuel consumption. About two more pit stops for fuel would have been required without DI, enough to allow the third place Audi to take the lead with their DI car. This year we'll see for the first time since the 50's, a diesel car. Perhaps a biodiesel car could be seen in races in the near future. I wouldn't look at any of the strictly American series to push for this, there is too much emphasis on equivalency in this country, because American fans want to see the best driver win, not the best team win. Changing fuels across the board is a much more difficult process than allowing a single team to take a chance and prove that something is a good idea. That's exactly what happened with the DI technology, and needs to happen with alternative fuel technology. Indy and NASCAR rules just don't allow for this to easily happen. The following link is about the diesel Le Mans car: http://www.calumlockie.com/news/report30.html --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Race cars could also run on biodiesel or on Vegetable Oil (Fatty Mehtyl Esthers or Trigliceryides? dunno the chemistry). Biodiesel has a much higher net energy ratio than ethanol. But I agree completely on E85 and ethanol. As to changing the cars to run the fuels, at these speeds, I think it's irrelevant if we give up a few mph or a few hp to make the cars more innovative and try running them on domestic fuels, for the sake of the innovative experience. The Indy cars seemingly have to go through enormous efforts to keep their speeds down. What's the difference if we lose a few horsepower, if we can use fuels that originate in the U.S. rather than elsewhere, and whose use makes excellent contribution to local jobs and research on better consumer cars? And why shouldn't the development of better cars through racing also include more fuel-conserving cars as well as cars which go faster and more durably and reliably? As the lower mpg of methanol and ethanol, compared to gasoline, I think this is nearly irrelevant. To me, the goal is to improve Miles Per Joule (or Megajoules because Joules are too small to use readily). As best I can tell, almost the only reason I can see that mpg is relevant, is in the sense that cars and fuels need to be devised which can refuel reasonably quickly and travel reasonably
[biofuel] newbie questions
Hello, I've recently become interested in biodiesel production and have built a processor based on a design from journeytoforever.com. I've run three batches, with the most recent being a 15 gallon run that had some residual motor oil in it from the free 55 gallon drum that I used to pick the oil up in. I processed the oil and got a good split, and even was able to bubble wash the batch, but had two problems. The fuel that was translucent coming out of the processor turned hazy like apple cider after washing, and multiple washes didn't help. It didn't emulsify much, but just got dark and kind of murky. Smells bad too. Hard to describe. Any advice? If this batch is unsalvageable, what do I do with it? The resources on journeytoforever.com have been very good with all other aspects of production, but I just don't know how to dispose of a botched batch. Any advice? Thanks for any advice you may have. David George Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] PVC
Jorge, I am only in the building process myself so I may not be your best resource. This is the design I will be using to build my processors. http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=332 Here is another example of a 5 Gal. processor http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html#methcondens This is another similar processor to the fumeless model I will be building http://home.swbell.net/scrof/Biod_Proc.html This is, I believe, a scematic for the processor at the previous link http://home.swbell.net/scrof/Biod_Proc.html Basiscally you need at least one pump (item number 01479-1RAH @ www.harborfreight.com) and a pot or tank capable of holding the oil to be processed, a source of heat, and a method of mixing. You will also need a container for mixing the Methanol and Lye. I'm sure you have read most of the information available on Journeyto forever.com. Another good site is www.weggieavenger.com . That's about all I can offer, aside from the best of luck. Have fun and be careful. Steven Vip Video Club [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI STEVEN I'M TRIYING TO BUILD MY PROCESSOR AND I NEED SOME IDEASCAN YOU HELP ME. IF YOU HAVE PICTURES I WOULD APRECCIATE YOUR COLABORATION. THANKS. JORGE ESCOBAR - Original Message - From: Steven Pfaff To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] PVC Well Keith, the stuff I'm speaking of is actually white here in the states but it is commonly used for water. More commonly for drainage. So let's hope were thinking of the same thing, It's signifigantly cheaper than steal plumbing. I'm finally getting my first diesel car tomorrow and, I will be making my first test batch before the end of the week. I'm building my processor from Girl Mark's design (it's so darned nice) very soon, you'd be suprised how quickly gave me a used water heater when I told him what I was using it for. Wish me luck, I should be running b100 before the end of the month. Thank you kindly, Steven P.S. I have referred nearly 100 skeptics to the Journey to Forever website. If only half of those check it out and realize how awesome this is I can only imagine what the people on the Journey to Forever have and will accomplish. Best wishes. Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can PVC pipe be used in processing biodiesel, more specifically in Girl Mark's fumeless processor? Hi Steven That's the waterpipes, right? Grey stuff. I use it with biodiesel, for instance as standpipes in the processor and settling tank, where it's exposed to the biodiesel, by-product, excess methanol, no problems. If you're going to do joints and right-angles and so on I don't know how the glue would take it. Best Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
[biofuel] microbial hydrogen production
Microbial Hydrogen Production http://www.afrlhorizons.com/Briefs/Jun03/ML0227.html Researchers explore microbial hydrogen production as key to an alternative energy source at bare base facilities (locations without permanent living facilities). AFRL's Materials and Manufacturing Directorate, Airbase Technologies Division, Weapons Systems Logistics Branch, Tyndall AFB FL Researchers at the Materials and Manufacturing Directorate are developing a biological method of producing hydrogen from waste streams created by dining halls, kitchens, latrines, and other places at bare base facilities. When successful, researchers will demonstrate that hydrogen production from bare base waste streams is a feasible alternative energy source for fuel cells. Using hydrogen as an alternative energy source is an exciting option due to its high conversion efficiency and nonpolluting nature. Bare base facilities have as many as 1,100 military personnel who live in temporary housing. Their mission often requires the base to function for several years, with the host nation providing little or no services. Currently, MEP-12 diesel generators produce the electrical power needs of the base. Directorate researchers in the Weapons Systems Logistics Branch are currently developing a two-reactor hydrogen generation system that is expected to reduce logistical burdens, pollution, and noise associated with using current diesel energy generators for energy production.1 Hydrogen-driven fuel cells will lower diesel fuel consumption and minimize the use of fossil fuels for hydrogen production. Though hydrogen is the most abundant element on earth, it is bound to other elements from which it must be separated before it can be used in energy generation. Microorganisms exist containing enzymes that produce hydrogen from waste materials, providing a seemingly inexhaustible source of material for hydrogen production. Many anaerobic organisms can produce hydrogen from organic substances, converting carbohydrates in a fermentative process to organic acids and hydrogen. For example, researchers can convert glucose to two acetate molecules, releasing four hydrogen molecules. The hydrogenase enzyme responsible for the reaction works very rapidly; however, the process stops at the organic acid, which retains significant bound hydrogen. full article http://www.afrlhorizons.com/Briefs/Jun03/ML0227.html regards Aternate Energy Resource Network resources-news sources updated through out the day http://www.alternate-energy.net Join tomorrow-energy yahoo news group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Weekly News Alerts http://www.alternate-energy.net/newsalerts04-12.html Alternative Energy System Calculators http://www.alternate-energy.net/calcsyst04.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] microbial bioreactors
Microbial bioreactors http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/biofuel/biofuel_cells2_1.html Various bacteria and algae, for example Escherichia coli, Enterobacter aerogenes, Clostridium butyricum, Clostridium acetobutylicum, and Clostridium perfringens have been found to be active in hydrogen production under anaerobic conditions [11-16]. The most effective H2 production is observed upon fermentation of glucose in the presence of Clostridium butyricum full source: http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/biofuel/biofuel_cells2_1.html regards Aternate Energy Resource Network resources-news sources updated through out the day http://www.alternate-energy.net Join tomorrow-energy yahoo news group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Weekly News Alerts http://www.alternate-energy.net/newsalerts04-12.html Alternative Energy System Calculators http://www.alternate-energy.net/calcsyst04.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] an animal fats thing
From: girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bubble washing. allegedly it's an animal fats thing. I haven't personally dealt with it because in the US we don't get fast food cooked in animal fats. anyone else (ie australians, eaters of fine tallow fried ... er... food), more info? Is 'normally used' animal fat harder to convert fully than vegoil? I have been told that McDonalds fry oil is the same the world over and contains 30% chicken fat. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel]
ARE believing what we see and/or read. Don't forget that the mainstream media is generally aligned with the left, That's your opinion and I'm confident that we aren't getting the whole story-unfortunately This I agree with [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Ethanol
Hi, I'm new here. I put this same question to the USA's Hydrogen energy kzar's during the MRS Spring Meeting in San Francisco. They were basically there to recruit Academics and researchers into H2 RD. I asked 'Why hydrogen, why not bio-derived alternatives?' the answer was 'political' to say the least. Basically the push for H2 is explicitly based on the potential for very high efficiency energy transfer and once the 'H2 economy' is in place they will start moving towards renewable energy sources for the production of H2. This sounded backwards to me since both diesel and petrol engines (main source of pollution) can already be run on or supplemented by bio-derived alternatives. It is my view that the USA's push for an 'Hydrogen Economy' is a political move designed to encourage the developed world to once again become dependent on (initially) US energy supplies. I don't think europe is going to play along since the Euro IV regulations for cars mean that all new diesels can run on SVO or filtered WVO. As for the old internal combustion engine, have no fear. BMW are working on an H2 based lump that can also run on petrol. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regards Nick P.S. I love my internal combustion engines and now I know that I can be better for the environment and still play with them. Why push for alternative energy when biofuel is a solution? Biofuels are alternative energies! -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Methanol Supplier in The UK?
Hi, I'm looking to start producing some Bio-Diesel. But have come across a big stubling block. Where do I get methanol? So far I have only found it as an additive to ethanol in methylated spirit at about £2.40/Litre I guess I could try using this but since I've never done it before I'd like to start with a simpler methanol based method. I found a post in the BioFuel Information Archive from Mark Schofield talking about £20/25L pure methanol. I would like to buy some please if you're still selling. Otherwise could you give me some hints? Luke Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Article on scavenging
http://www.x-pipe.com/Scavenge.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans
Thanks M. I have not a clue to construct a condensor unit. I do see pictures on biodiesel processors that have inline units, but it doesn't go into detail on parts needed and recommeded tips, such as the Girl-Mark Fumeless plans. This is really important and a great help in my biodiesel process. I've been storing glycerin in 5 gal carboys until such info can be found. I prefer to know what I'm doing when heating biodielsel byproduct for Methanol recovery. Anyone? - Original Message - From: î Riain, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 8:18 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans Kevin , I can't offer you very much help on this one - I've been on the lookout for the same plans myself recently but have not come across very much specifically on condensers . I gather from what I've read that most people channel the methanol vapours through a coil which sits in a bath of cold water. I've also read references to air cooling the coil with a fan but the water cooling seems to be favoured as more efficient. The water in the bath will need to be cooled. i guess if you had a large holding tank circulating water through the cooling bath, the hotter water returning to the large tank would release its heat to the surrounding environment . Apologies - this may be one of those things that is easier done than said. The guy with the Touchless Processor - http://home.swbell.net/scrof/Biod_Proc.html uses a coaxial pipe system - a small pipe sitting inside a larger one - the vapours run through the small pipe and a jacket of cold water circulates through the larger one. he reckons this system, though simple, is very effective. Please let me know if you find anything useful. m -Original Message- From: Kevin Shea [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 June 2004 06:38 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans Journey's website has lot's of info, but have not found any detailed plans to construct a condenser to recover methanol. (unless I missed it?) Can anyone point me in the directions to construct a condenser to process 5-20 gal of biodiesel waste (Glycerin, Methanol,etc) and convert to usable methanol again? Pictures appreciated Thank you, Kevin Shea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links ** Th contents of this e-mail (including attachments)are private and confidential and may also be subject to legal privilege. It is intended only for the use of the addressee. If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible for delivering it to the addressee, you may not copy or deliver this e-mail or any attachments to anyone else or make any use of its contents; you should not read any part of this e-mail or any attachments. Unauthorised disclosure or communication or other use of the contents of this e-mail or any part thereof may be prohibited by law and may constitute a criminal offence. If you receive this e-mail by mistake please notify the system manager @ +353-1-647-2417. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of known computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What went wrong?
liter water in a clean 2 liter bottle, decanted the biodiesel on top of it, then shook. Agitated too vigorously too early in the wash stage is probably the problem as this caused emusions. No need to waste your test batch...let it stand for a month in a dark place and you should see it (almost completely) come back. I did the same thing to my earlier test batches by jetting the water into my 5 gal batches with the garden hose and creating foamy stuff..Opps! . -Kevin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel
Martin, I am sending a copy of our proposal as an email attachment , it is having our results and also what we are going to do in future. I am doing lab set up so that i can start up by experiments as soon as i get results i will post to you. Thank You Irshad Irshad, as an essential anti-virus measure the list is set to reject attachments, as well as html coding in the message body - plain text-ASCII only. Please copy the text of the attachment into the message body and send it again. Thanks Keith Addison List owner Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Irshad, Please post your results to this list so we can see what you find. I have been wondering about cracking biodiesel. Thanks -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ irshad ahmed wrote: Hi, My name is Irshad and i am a new member to this group.I am a graduate student in Chemical Engineering Dept in University of North Dakota. I am trying to improve the cold flow properties of Biodiesel so that it can be used in Aviation sector (JP-8).I am trying to improve the cold flow properties by catalytic cracking and thermal cracking.In future we are going to crack soybean oil and bidiesel and then we will compare the results I would like to know is someone working on this same topic or they have some idea how i can remove major percentage of glycerol from biodiesel (SME) or from raw feed soybean oil which is our our feed for biodiesel. All of you have a great weekend, Thank You, Irshad Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [biofuels] Re: US poll about Iraq war
Hi Pierre Hi Keith. Your assumption is not quite right, although your comments remain insightful. I am French-Canadian (canadien), member of a colonized people. Well, I suppose so. All very confusing. My comparison would move you one step back, to the society that colonised the place and its people in the first place (Native Americans), ie the European society, aka the West, Westerners. The distinctions aren't clearcut. Japan is a Western nation industrially, technologically, economically, in other ways it's not even remotely Western. It's done a lot of colonising though, and arguably it's been colonised in turn, if you count the US occupation. Quite a lot of nations are both, in different ways, including India, which I think is among the top 10 industrialised nations. Maybe a French-Canadian would be more like a Scot. Okay, okay - different! But at least you were colonised by people of your own culture. Good grief, now I've not only said that the English have the same culture as the French, but that they have a culture at all. Primitif, no? Anyway, maybe they wouldn't have been so mean if you hadn't done it to them in 1066. Oh, sorry, them Normans (north-men) were Danes, they did it to you first. Aarg... I once heard a West Indian scholar being interviewed on BBC radio, part of a panel discussion on colonialism. He said the first time he came to England what really surprised him was to find that you are colonised just as much as we were, and by the very same people. Which got a good laugh out of me but the rest of the panel were infuriated. LOL! Anyway, Westerners, Europeans, whatever, never mind of which particular tribe, having gained an edge when it came to stuff like the civilised uses of gunpowder, boats, compasses and so on, brought about this unfortunate phase of diplomacy, international trade and relations that's generally known as the Colonial Era, with its victors and victims, from which we have all yet fully to recover and could quite probably struggle along somehow without a 21st-century replay. Pierre, I guess being a Canadien puts you on both sides, somewhat, doesn't it? But I have to agree with Balaji: That's possibly why slave trading initiated by the British in the Americas, was abolished in 1807, long before it happened in the USA. more likely from the extreme guilt associated with being the world's number one and most ruthless slave traders. Precisely my point. Guilt is indication of conscience, whether of the administration on its own or induced by others inside the system. I think you are looking at the original evil intent, while we in India are living with the wholesome unintended consequences. Besides, you need to get outside yourself and assess all this objectively and not suffer from a surrogate guilty conscience. Best just get on with it, no Truth and Reconciliation Commission, forgive is good, forget isn't. Best wishes Keith Pierre --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Pierre, and all This is all quite correct, but you and Balaji are looking at it from different viewpoints, you from that of the society that did the colonising, which should indeed be working on such self- examination, and he from that of a society that was colonised, which now has to get on with life. ... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] OPEC and the Euro
Apparently, the only place that is being hit by the rising costs of oil are the ones that depend on the US dollar as it's base currency. http://goldmoney.com/en/commentary/2004-02-18.html Should OPEC go en-masse to the Euro (which is what Saddam did) the US economy would crash overnight IMHO.Derrivatives held by J.P.Morgan would all come home to roost and that in and of itself would finish off the US economy as the derrivatives market is absurdly overstretched and the emptying of the 75% of world reseves which are now held in US dollars would absilutely kill the dollar and all economies that are wholly based on it. Contrary to this policy it has been a matter of fact in many third world countries to deal in actual gold, as the gold dinar, rather than in fiat money, so theri economies will not suffer the same amount of disaster many weastern economies will. For a simple understanding that any layman can understand on the fiat money system please visit: http://www.hermes-press.com/econ2.htm Luc Thanks for the link... though I know I'm in for some hard work when I see talk of the High Cabal, conditioning, and so on. There'll be some truth in it at least, but there'll also be an axe being ground, and there's almost bound to be some or much rearrangement of facts to fit a pre-conceived pattern. Yes, I do know that there are such things as conspiracies. The trouble with conspiracists is that they're so good at obscuring the real conspiracies, and, indeed, falling for them, all too often, or, in their obsession with their pet conspiracy, which might be imaginary, they aid and abet a real one. This is useful: http://www.publiceye.org/top_conspire.html Basic Conspiracism 101 Anyway, the danger (?) of moving oil to the Euro was the main theme of this, posted the other day: Revisited - The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War With Iraq http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/34945/ Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans
Hello Kevin, Michael Kevin , I can't offer you very much help on this one - I've been on the lookout for the same plans myself recently but have not come across very much specifically on condensers . I gather from what I've read that most people channel the methanol vapours through a coil which sits in a bath of cold water. I've also read references to air cooling the coil with a fan but the water cooling seems to be favoured as more efficient. The water in the bath will need to be cooled. i guess if you had a large holding tank circulating water through the cooling bath, the hotter water returning to the large tank would release its heat to the surrounding environment . Apologies - this may be one of those things that is easier done than said. The guy with the Touchless Processor - http://home.swbell.net/scrof/Biod_Proc.html uses a coaxial pipe system - a small pipe sitting inside a larger one - the vapours run through the small pipe and a jacket of cold water circulates through the larger one. he reckons this system, though simple, is very effective. Dale uses vacuum as well. See recent Vacuum Pump for Condenser thread: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/34041/1 Also, Dale's recovering the methanol from the complete catastrophe, not just the glycerine cocktail. There are advantages and disadvantages to that. Advantage would be that you get more back (which otherwise ends up in the first wash), disadvantages that you can't separate the by-product cocktail into it's components with the excess methanol removed, should you want to do that, and that it might leave a solidified by-product in the bottom of the tank once the meth's gone, especially if you use NaOH rather than KOH. Actually there is information on condensers at Journey to Forever, it's here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html#methcondens Simple 5-gallon processor I responded to a question about this recently, perhaps worth a read: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/34289/ Hope this helps. Best Keith Please let me know if you find anything useful. m -Original Message- From: Kevin Shea [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 June 2004 06:38 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans Journey's website has lot's of info, but have not found any detailed plans to construct a condenser to recover methanol. (unless I missed it?) Can anyone point me in the directions to construct a condenser to process 5-20 gal of biodiesel waste (Glycerin, Methanol,etc) and convert to usable methanol again? Pictures appreciated Thank you, Kevin Shea Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Ethanol
Hello Nick My post was realy a comment on the shaping of the public by the media and whoever is trying to push the point from behind the scenes (oil companies?). It just is increcible to me that both sides of the story were not portrayed in a equal manner and the benefits of using a renewable form of enegy was not even mentioned in the campain to remove ethanol from our fuel. It was eventually exposed in the Sydney Morning Herald as a disinfo campaign, which I suppose was laudable in a way considering that the same paper had spearheaded the campaign. But I think the damage had mostly been done by then. The Biofuels Association and their associates tried to fght it, but they weren't very effective. They just didn't seem to know how to play that game, for one thing - posting rebuttals on their website doesn't quite make it, nor does letters to the editor. Still, they tried. What complicated the issue were charges of political favouritism: ...the Manildra group, which makes nearly all Australia's ethanol and markets it largely through independent service stations at concentrations of up to 20 per cent. Manildra is a major donor to the Liberal Party and its principal, Dick Honan, is a friend of the Prime Minister. Ethanol is only competitive with petrol because of a 38 cents-a-litre producer subsidy introduced at John Howard's behest in September. Thoroughly muddied waters. It was much discussed at the time at the Biofuels-biz list, sister list to this one and now closed, but the archives is still open. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1832/ Secrecy over car-rotting petrol additive (ethanol!!!) http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1945/ Australia puts off imposing cap on ethanol in fuel http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/2698/ Finally the real story behind the Australian ethanol scare campaign Here's a full list (lots!) http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/?keywords=ethanol+australia time=6monthsusertime=2002-12-31 Even I was conned to an extent until I did some research and found the journey to forever site and realised that engines are quite happy on ethanol with a change to the fuel system, then stunned that the manufacturers even build cars that are designed to run ethanol with no problems in the States (that isnt told to the Aussie public either) E85 - only 85% ethanol. Brazil builds E100 vehicles. Japan is also proposing an ethanol cap because of corrosion concerns. I don't think we've yet got to the bottom of this. Ethanol is corrosive. Lots of people say it's not a problem, anything higher than 160-proof is just fine at 100% once you adjust the carburettor and so on, but is it really true? There's also this, presented at the time of the Australian row: Intensive Field Trial of Ethanol/Petrol Blend in Vehicles http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html#ethanoltrial We (JtF) don't have any direct experience to offer, yet - we'll be distilling ethanol this summer and using it in spark-ignition engines. We do have our experts here though, such as Marc Carduso - what do you think about all this Marc? Will E100 rot a motor or not? P.S. I love my internal combustion engines and now I know that I can be better for the environment and still play with them. Why push for alternative energy when biofuel is a solution? Biofuels are alternative energies! There seems to be a distinction made between biofuels and bio-energy. Biofuels means transport fuel, bio-energy means power generation. Their respective backers and interest groups don't have nearly enough to do with each other, IMO. It's largely a false distinction, there's so much common ground. Best wishes Keith yes I realise biofuels are alternative energies (perhaps more a renewable energy) although using conventional technology, I kind of was refering to solar, electric vehicles and less so fuel cells (I do believe fuelcells show great potential however) I hope this clears up my point of view. Regards Nick Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Hello Arthur You lose! I suppose it's no big surprise that a thread such as this should hit Godwin's Law, but it sure didn't take you long. In case you don't know it: Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful. Intentional or not, the thread isn't necessarily over, but you definitely lose. A couple of comments: First, because you personally find it ugly and hateful does not necessarily mean that those were its intentions - you assume that, fail to examine it, fail to establish it, and then lash out on an unsubstantiated basis with a personal attack. From this and several other things, whether or not this applies to Luc, it might well apply to you: Yes , Luc this is personal , people like you spread hatred and kill far more people than silly land grabs and commodity wars ever will. Silly land grabs and commodity wars? Silly? I guess that's one way of putting it. Indeed ideology is the biggest killer, and it certainly has a very great deal to do with silly land grabs and commodity wars, which is in fact what his thread is all about. Now perhaps some sort of my enemy's enemy is my friend type thinking may lead you to conclude that I'm defending Luc. I'm not defending Luc, that's up to him, if he chooses to, but I am attacking you. Whether you agree with it or not, Luc provided some analysis and some references and links, which you dismiss as proven scams and hate literature and liken them to Mein Kampf. It just doesn't work that way here. We're all entitled to our opinions, and entitled to express them too, but when you're attempting to discredit someone else's view, which he's provided some substantiation for, it needs a little more than just an opinion and a contemptuous slap-aside. So either add some substance to it, or don't expect to be treated with any respect. By the way, Lucifer means bearer of light, it was Satan's name and role before the Fall. Keith I am reposting this because I accidently coppied all/most of the previous posting and was added to the end. I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR WASTING BANDWIDTH ON THIS RANT, PLEASE FORGIVE ME Luc, I am Jewish and I am a Zionist. I have tried to stay out of this ugly hateful thread but I find myself swept in because of your twisting of truths and binding them to lies. Jews who are not Zionists can mostly be divided into two groups, those that are not Zionist for theoligical reasons tied into the coming of the Messiah (like Rabbi Teitelbaum) , and left wing liberals who in my opinion care less about remaining Jewish and more about being respected in their circles as politically correct Humanists. This is material for another thread on another list. Rabbi Teitlebaum is more concerned about his small Chasidic sect being the subject of secular Jewish rulings that do not coincide with his interpretation of trditional Jewish law. I, as an observant Jew respect his opinion but I do not agree with it. I would also argue that most Jews, secular and observant, are Zionists to different degrees. There are many different definitions within the Jewish community about what Zionism is , but the central belief is that Israel, as a Jewish state has the right to exist. What it's borders are and how it is governed is another debate. Your exceptional naivete (to be generous) and your insensitivity to regarding your previous posting quoting things like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion just proves your ignorance. These documents are proven scams and hate literature. I am suprised you do not quote Mein Kampf(sp?) and proclaim Hitler and the Grand Inquisitors as tellers of great truths. You also probably wake up each morning(after checking the horizon for the black helicopters of the Apocalypse) looking for a reason why your own life is unsatifactory and blame anyone but yourself. It is so easy to imagine all the forces of the world conspired against you rather than working out real solutions to your own shortcomings. Yes , Luc this is personal , people like you spread hatred and kill far more people than silly land grabs and commodity wars ever will. Luc, you must take your name really seriously, spreading hatred and lies to the ignorant, isn't your name short for Lucifer. -Arthur Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM
[biofuel] Message disruption
Apologies friends, there has been some disruption at the Biofuel list today. I think it's all sorted out now. Best wishes Keith Addison List owner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] an animal fats thing
I don't know exactly, but an ex-employee of Mc-Donald's in Belgium told me once that (at least in Belgium) the frying stuff contains animal fat. At 11:02 AM 6/2/2004 +0200, you wrote: From: girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bubble washing. allegedly it's an animal fats thing. I haven't personally dealt with it because in the US we don't get fast food cooked in animal fats. anyone else (ie australians, eaters of fine tallow fried ... er... food), more info? Is 'normally used' animal fat harder to convert fully than vegoil? I have been told that McDonalds fry oil is the same the world over and contains 30% chicken fat. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What went wrong?
start with the first process NOT using sulfuric acid. untill you get some good results. go to juorney to forever and start where they say to start . dont skip any steps I am a newbie doing the same thing you are I built a touchless processor and am just starting out... I fortunatly have not made soap yet. DO AS THEY RECOMEND and bio will come Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] RE: The clash of civilizations
Woah, I wasn't expecting replies like this. I would like to remind Todd and everyone else that if we watch and believe what we see on the news, we ARE believing what we see and/or read. Don't forget that the mainstream media is generally aligned with the left, and I'm confident that we aren't getting the whole story-unfortunately (and probably still wouldn't get it if they were aligned with the right). What I sent was an article forwarded from another source; it is hard for me believe 100% of what it is saying, but I feel the same way when I watch the news at night. The real problem is that we are not getting the whole story. BUT I am confident about one thing! When I go to the pump and fill up my car (28 mpg diesel) and my motorcycle (42 mpg awesome lookin' Harley Night Train, by the way), I still can't help but feel that I am funding a terrorist organization. In my local paper just the other week, a journalist broke down the [local] cost of gasoline. A whole $.99 per gallon goes to OPEC, or whomever supplied the crude oil. Of course one barrel only produces so much gasoline; the rest is used for other things. One dollar per gallon to an untrustworthy source. Can we trust the Saudis? I think not. My whole point is that until we stop buying crude from the Arab world, until we become self sufficient with our fuel, until we put money into our own pockets, we are at risk of our money being used against us. If the article were totally made up from some maniac as crazy as the terrorists themselves, one can't deny that they [the terrorists] are fanatical and unstable, want the USA and any other non-muslim group out of their countries, and will continue to plan to undo us and kill us with smiles on their faces. When we cut off their supply of money, they will go broke and we will [hopefully] be a little safer. We can all start by getting involved as WE ALL HERE are doing-educating ourselves on how to make our own cleaner [in more ways than one] fuel. Yes jkolling, a nice pun it is! But I think (I hope) that some of the reason we are over in Iraq is to suppress the terrorist activity. It doesn't seem that way at times though. Bush actually creates an environment for these types of things to florish. -If he doesn't achieve his goals, but then what are his goals. The truth is that I don't think that anybody knows but him. After all, he IS a politician-just like Kerry. I personally don't trust any politician, and hope that when I vote it is for the lessor of two evils. And Keith, thank you for the quotes. Scary; Abraham sounds like he's fanatical. I don't see anything wrong with 'the Green Movement.' He sounds like someone with a hidden agenda like the rest of the politicians. Young Master Joseph Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] (unknown)
I always thought that Rush Limbaugh was mainstream media. You feel that he, and all of the posers that have come after him, are aligned with the left? I'd hate to see where your right is located. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Eric M. Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Woah, I wasn't expecting replies like this. I would like to remind Todd and everyone else that if we watch and believe what we see on the news, we ARE believing what we see and/or read. Don't forget that the mainstream media is generally aligned with the left, and I'm confident that we aren't getting the whole story-unfortunately (and probably still wouldn't get it if they were aligned with the right). What I sent was an article forwarded from another source; it is hard for me believe 100% of what it is saying, but I feel the same way when I watch the news at night. The real problem is that we are not getting the whole story. BUT I am confident about one thing! When I go to the pump and fill up my car (28 mpg diesel) and my motorcycle (42 mpg awesome lookin' Harley Night Train, by the way), I still can't help but feel that I am funding a terrorist organization. In my local paper just the other week, a journalist broke down the [local] cost of gasoline. A whole $.99 per gallon goes to OPEC, or whomever supplied the crude oil. Of course one barrel only produces so much gasoline; the rest is used for other things. One dollar per gallon to an untrustworthy source. Can we trust the Saudis? I think not. My whole point is that until we stop buying crude from the Arab world, until we become self sufficient with our fuel, until we put money into our own pockets, we are at risk of our money being used against us. If the article were totally made up from some maniac as crazy as the terrorists themselves, one can't deny that they [the terrorists] are fanatical and unstable, want the USA and any other non-muslim group out of their countries, and will continue to plan to undo us and kill us with smiles on their faces. When we cut off their supply of money, they will go broke and we will [hopefully] be a little safer. We can all start by getting involved as WE ALL HERE are doing-educating ourselves on how to make our own cleaner [in more ways than one] fuel. Young Master Joseph Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans
Hello Gents, Am I to understand that the methanol can be recovered from the entire Biodiesel/Glycerin mix before decanting/separating? In doing this, do any separation problems occur? I don't plan to break down the glycerin into it's elements, rather I plan to use it as a degreaser/hand cleaner. Thanks, Steven Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Kevin, Michael Kevin , I can't offer you very much help on this one - I've been on the lookout for the same plans myself recently but have not come across very much specifically on condensers . I gather from what I've read that most people channel the methanol vapours through a coil which sits in a bath of cold water. I've also read references to air cooling the coil with a fan but the water cooling seems to be favoured as more efficient. The water in the bath will need to be cooled. i guess if you had a large holding tank circulating water through the cooling bath, the hotter water returning to the large tank would release its heat to the surrounding environment . Apologies - this may be one of those things that is easier done than said. The guy with the Touchless Processor - http://home.swbell.net/scrof/Biod_Proc.html uses a coaxial pipe system - a small pipe sitting inside a larger one - the vapours run through the small pipe and a jacket of cold water circulates through the larger one. he reckons this system, though simple, is very effective. Dale uses vacuum as well. See recent Vacuum Pump for Condenser thread: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/34041/1 Also, Dale's recovering the methanol from the complete catastrophe, not just the glycerine cocktail. There are advantages and disadvantages to that. Advantage would be that you get more back (which otherwise ends up in the first wash), disadvantages that you can't separate the by-product cocktail into it's components with the excess methanol removed, should you want to do that, and that it might leave a solidified by-product in the bottom of the tank once the meth's gone, especially if you use NaOH rather than KOH. Actually there is information on condensers at Journey to Forever, it's here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html#methcondens Simple 5-gallon processor I responded to a question about this recently, perhaps worth a read: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/34289/ Hope this helps. Best Keith Please let me know if you find anything useful. m -Original Message- From: Kevin Shea [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 01 June 2004 06:38 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans Journey's website has lot's of info, but have not found any detailed plans to construct a condenser to recover methanol. (unless I missed it?) Can anyone point me in the directions to construct a condenser to process 5-20 gal of biodiesel waste (Glycerin, Methanol,etc) and convert to usable methanol again? Pictures appreciated Thank you, Kevin Shea Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Alex, Rather than calling another a liar under the guise of politeness, why not point out whatever errors exist somewhat more precisely as well as indicating any accuracies. For those of us who could almost give one whit less about the minutia of organized religion, whether having experienced their destructive capacities either first or second hand, a little more precision would serve far better than sweeping generalities prepositioned as theological facts. In this manner your comment is every bit as useless as Arthur Sauerhaft's. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith Actually Luc was telling many lies about Jewish theology. Talmud is in fact a written commentaries to Torah. It was created over the centuries by some of the greatest minds. If you go to any bookstore you can buy it there. There is an oral law as well, which was recorded into books many hundreds of years ago, you can buy them in a bookstore. This oral law deals with many very complex issues , and there is nothing of the appalling things Luc was telling about. So much for interesting theological facts. In this respect I also keep thinking of an entity called a great deceiver, the one who is here to maim, kill and destroy. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Arthur, I am puzzled, have looked through the thread and have large difficulties to find any I hate the Jews in it. I find some interesting ideological and theological facts in it, but expressed in a respectful and objective way. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Ethanol
SNIP Thanks for you reply Keith, It helps to clear things up when the story comes out from more than one source( this relates to other threads in this group too). Its funny that Rob Carter from the NRMA is perpetuating the myth when the NRMA was involved in the research paper from Apace Research Ltd in pulling down engines and inspecting for damage(none found). Whos pulling whos strings here. Initialised comments on things being Politicised rings true to. IMO Australian politics is very schoolyard in its public side with each party rubbishing each other and no real progress made on fixing the real problems. Im sure that most Aussies feel the same way but get caught up in the media portrayal of issues and end up with the she'll be right mate attitude. Yes I have an issue with the media. Any way must sign off for now. Im realy looking forward to moving into my own home in the next few weeks angd making some diesel. My only test bed is my fathers Hilux Surf which I dont want to stuff up. Regards and perplexed Nick Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] newbie questions
David, Who says that the batch you have on hand is bad? Biodiesel smells largely like the parent stock. If the oil smells bad, so will the fuel. Smell is subjective and not an indicator of whether the fuel is sufficient or not. As to hazy fuel, either let it set until the micro-droplets of water coalesce and drop/evaporate or heat it to ~120*F. As for determining if the fuel is actually bad? Take one or two liquid ounces of dried sample, mix it with equal parts water in a sealable container, shake violently for a few seconds and observe. If it separates immediately with no emulsion, you're fuel is sufficient. If it emulsifies, you'll need to reprocess the fuel to finish the incomplete reaction. To confirm an incomplete reaction, reprocess a small sample of the dried fuel to see if anymore glycerin drops. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: dlgeorgetn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: [biofuel] newbie questions Hello, I've recently become interested in biodiesel production and have built a processor based on a design from journeytoforever.com. I've run three batches, with the most recent being a 15 gallon run that had some residual motor oil in it from the free 55 gallon drum that I used to pick the oil up in. I processed the oil and got a good split, and even was able to bubble wash the batch, but had two problems. The fuel that was translucent coming out of the processor turned hazy like apple cider after washing, and multiple washes didn't help. It didn't emulsify much, but just got dark and kind of murky. Smells bad too. Hard to describe. Any advice? If this batch is unsalvageable, what do I do with it? The resources on journeytoforever.com have been very good with all other aspects of production, but I just don't know how to dispose of a botched batch. Any advice? Thanks for any advice you may have. David George Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: What went wrong?
Kevin, Thanks for the help. I suspect that overly vigorous agitation is a big part of the problem. The top layer of what I have does seem to be very slowly clearing, as you predict. Rereading the process on the JTF site, I also notice that they say that if you get less than 100 cc glycerol, you probably have an incomplete reaction. I don't think that I had any more than 60 or 70 cc, which tells me that this was probably another part of the problem. I'm planning to do another test batch this coming weekend, and will just process longer no matter what I think of the color or clarity of what I have after 15 minutes. Since I am brand new to this, I have obviously never seen what the mix is supposed to look like after processing. I am trying to make an educated guess based on a description, and obviously guessed wrong. Thanks again for the reply. The only way that I'll figure this out is with the help of those who have gone before. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Shea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: liter water in a clean 2 liter bottle, decanted the biodiesel on top of it, then shook. Agitated too vigorously too early in the wash stage is probably the problem as this caused emusions. No need to waste your test batch...let it stand for a month in a dark place and you should see it (almost completely) come back. I did the same thing to my earlier test batches by jetting the water into my 5 gal batches with the garden hose and creating foamy stuff..Opps! . -Kevin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What went wrong?
Brian, Any other thoughts? Other than going back and adhering to the instructions more precisely? Nope. Not a one. What you apparently have is an incomplete reaction on the base side, leaving you with a compliment of esters and emulsifiers, the latter being unreacted mono- and di-glycerides. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:27 AM Subject: [biofuel] What went wrong? Well, my first test batch is done, and the end result is less than spectacular. Wondering if anyone has any ideas. I completed the second stage as instructed. 1/2 of my methoxide in, mix for 5 minutes, heat to 130 F, add the remaining methoxide and mix hot until nice golden amber. This only took about 10 minutes, and I continued mixing for a total of 15. Since the instructions say it will take one and a half to two hours, I think this may be one place that things went wrong, although the appearance when I finished was just as described. I let the mixture settle in an old 2 liter soda bottle for about 6 hours, and it looked exactly like the pictures on the JTF web site. Clear, golden amber layer on top with dark glycerol on the bottom. I called the test batch a great success and went on to wash my new biodiesel, which is where the problem came up. I put about 1/3 liter water in a clean 2 liter bottle, decanted the biodiesel on top of it, then shook. I probably shook a little vigorously, but with the assumption that the foolproof method would leave me with product which could withstand this type of washing. What I have now is a cloudy, murky yellow layer of nearly one liter followed by a guhky layer looking most like old soap scum and then a small amount of cloudy water. Since the middle layer looks like soap scum, I am assuming that is exactly what it is. I assume also that the upper layer is biodiesel with water still in it, and may clear eventually. The bottom layer is obviously water with the water soluble leftovers from the biodiesel process. My take on the problem is that either I did not heat and stir long enough in stage two, overheated in stage one or agitated too vigorously in the wash stage. I think it is probably a combination of not enough processing in stage two and overzealous agitation in washing that caused the problem. Any other thoughts? Brian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The clash of civilizations and the Great Caliphate
Hello Eric Woah, I wasn't expecting replies like this. I'm sure you weren't. I would like to remind Todd and everyone else that if we watch and believe what we see on the news, we ARE believing what we see and/or read. Seeing is believing, eh? Maybe in your case it is. You have a problem here - you add read at the end, but it seems clear that for you news is something you watch and see. Shoot your television! In the US there is a woeful lag between frontline news and general beliefs, with a majority still believing stuff that has not only been thoroughly debunked and discredited but the debunking has even been admitted by the administration (WMDs, links between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda, even the knowledge that the rest of the world was and is hugely and loudly opposed to the US invasion of Iraq) - for instance, a majority has never heard of David Kay. There is a major overlap between these benighted people and those who get their news from TV, especially from Fox. I'm not saying that the print media are perfect, they're anything but, especially these days, and especially in the US, but it's still possible to find your way with the print media (especially if you supplement it with other sources via the Internet). That is hardly the case with TV news. I know this because I get a lot of analysis, but here's an example. I was talking with an American who teaches English here (Japan). She was saying she'd asked her parents (in Texas) to send her some news videos to use as course material in her class, which they did... She got a nasty surprise. She'd been getting her news on the war in Iraq and so on from Japanese TV and hadn't realised the difference. I played them at home first, and I was shocked! It's totally distorted and one-sided. I can't show THAT to my students! She was VERY bothered about it. She admitted it all would have seemed quite normal to her before she left home, and she was very bothered about that too. Don't forget that the mainstream media is generally aligned with the left, That too is a view that is very largely associated with TV, especially with Fox TV. I'm not just saying this stuff, recent studies demonstrate it beyond any doubt. The so-called liberal bias of the US mainstream media is an empty myth with nothing to substantiate it. Have a look at these: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15187 What Liberal Media? http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/7355 Which Side Of The Media Is Inclusive? Conservative Media Don't Want To Hear From The 'Other Guy' http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15217 Media Mythbusters There's plenty more if you want more. and I'm confident that we aren't getting the whole story-unfortunately (and probably still wouldn't get it if they were aligned with the right). That's just the problem. What I sent was an article forwarded from another source; it is hard for me believe 100% of what it is saying, but I feel the same way when I watch the news at night. Then stop doing it. That's why you can forward sheer propaganda like this stuff from Abraham to a diverse international mailing list like this one and then get surprised when not everybody agrees with you that it's a must-read. Now you say it's hard for you to believe it 100%, but I'll remind you that when you posted it you had rather a different view: However I think that it is necessary for each and every one of you to read ALL of this article. It is quite lengthy, but it is worth reading. It puts in perspective what is really going on over in the Middle East. Some of these facts were gleaned from these radically religious communities in that 'hot zone'. Some of these people actually believe that they are fighting a Holy War! They are happy just to kill an American, or anyone else that THEY think is against their religion. That is so archaic... Read onIt may change the way that you consume petroleum and justify what we all are trying to accomplish. Remember? But it turns out to be junk. Doesn't that worry you? The real problem is that we are not getting the whole story. BUT I am confident about one thing! When I go to the pump and fill up my car (28 mpg diesel) and my motorcycle (42 mpg awesome lookin' Harley Night Train, by the way), I still can't help but feel that I am funding a terrorist organization. The real problem is that you are not getting the whole story. Sorry, Eric, but I'm getting more than a little tired of this simplistic view. From a previous post: For me, this book [House of Bush, House of Saud by Craig Unger] cements my decision to run my diesel trucks on biodiesel at $2.40/gallon instead of petroleum diesel until I can complete my vegetable oil conversions on them. I'd very much rather give my money to American agriculture and industry than to middle eastern sheiks who will then give some of that money to Al Qaida or groups like them. I simply don't want my driving habit to support Islamist
Re: [biofuel]
Eric, Who watches television? As for your preposition that oil revenues going to foreign sources propigates terrorism, you might want to broaden your horizons just a bit and take a look at the myriad of methods that have been used to fund known terrorist organizations. They range from lollipop sales to shoe shine stands to donation boxes at garage sales to not for profits to legitimate businesses of every nature. To achieve the end that you suggest, you would essentially have to boycott the entire global market. Focusing solely on oil from a singular source is over simplistic and entirely inappropriate. You might also care to give consideration as to the various forms of terror generated by domestic fossil (and fissile) fuel pursuits. Terrorism, sir, is largely initiated and supported by the avarice, largess, waste and greed of western mindsets, not any singular feedstock/resource. Focusing on those character flaws is a far more complete method of addressing the issue and reducing the number of germination beds. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Eric M. Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:45 AM Subject: [biofuel] Woah, I wasn't expecting replies like this. I would like to remind Todd and everyone else that if we watch and believe what we see on the news, we ARE believing what we see and/or read. Don't forget that the mainstream media is generally aligned with the left, and I'm confident that we aren't getting the whole story-unfortunately (and probably still wouldn't get it if they were aligned with the right). What I sent was an article forwarded from another source; it is hard for me believe 100% of what it is saying, but I feel the same way when I watch the news at night. The real problem is that we are not getting the whole story. BUT I am confident about one thing! When I go to the pump and fill up my car (28 mpg diesel) and my motorcycle (42 mpg awesome lookin' Harley Night Train, by the way), I still can't help but feel that I am funding a terrorist organization. In my local paper just the other week, a journalist broke down the [local] cost of gasoline. A whole $.99 per gallon goes to OPEC, or whomever supplied the crude oil. Of course one barrel only produces so much gasoline; the rest is used for other things. One dollar per gallon to an untrustworthy source. Can we trust the Saudis? I think not. My whole point is that until we stop buying crude from the Arab world, until we become self sufficient with our fuel, until we put money into our own pockets, we are at risk of our money being used against us. If the article were totally made up from some maniac as crazy as the terrorists themselves, one can't deny that they [the terrorists] are fanatical and unstable, want the USA and any other non-muslim group out of their countries, and will continue to plan to undo us and kill us with smiles on their faces. When we cut off their supply of money, they will go broke and we will [hopefully] be a little safer. We can all start by getting involved as WE ALL HERE are doing-educating ourselves on how to make our own cleaner [in more ways than one] fuel. Young Master Joseph Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
Matt, Why don't you and Arthur and Alex get a grip and stop with all the declarations of who is and isn't full of hate? Most people get up in the morning after a reasonably peaceful sleep and set about their business in a reasonably peaceful manner. That all rather changes hue the moment souls such as youself begin to blithely pass judgement on their character. Judging from the remarks that the three of you call hate filled, none of you have even the first clue as to what hate really is. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Matt Golden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan You are full of hate and I feel very sorry for you. There are fanatic / extremist views in every religion... and it is simply not productive to hate and blame. Right now we seem to be living in a world where the vast majority of modorit thinking people are being oppressed by the will of extremest elements. Perhaps the reason that so many jews react strongly to this sort of hatful rhetoric is that we have learned throughout the ages to remember the tragidies of the past. It is just this sort of hate speach, that has triggered events such as the holocaust. The Jews have been without a home for the last 2000 years... We have been slaughtered and persecuted and blamed for any number of problems (this latest is not the first time people have declared the Jews to be responsible) throughout this time. Perhaps you can understand why Israel represents something that is so powerful and protected in the Jewish psychy. I would not agree with everything that Israel has done (in fact, I tend to disagree with a great many of her policies), however I have to believe in her right to exist. The Jewish religion is not perfect... Yes many people feel strongly especialy that Jews should not marry outside the religion... It is really the only thing that has allowed the religion to survive 5000 years, almost half of it without a home. At the same time, I am married to a non-jew, and my parents love her dearly. You keep reffering to Jewdiasm as a monolithic block, when you yell about text in the book used to train rabbis... I have laugh... There is no book -- I can only say, that you really have a very superficial understanding of the religion, and leave it at that. MY SOLUTION: I know that 99% of the people on this earth, wish for peace and love. I know that there are extremeist elements in every culture and religion that believe their way of thought is the right way... They are the only real enemy and evil in my book. Take a look at yourself Mr. Biobenz... because you fall into that catagory. - Original Message - From: biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan Dear Matt. History of the Khazars and what the Talmud says is not hate it is historical FACT. I truly am sympathetic to those who suffer needlessly, be they known as jews or Palestinians or others who do not deserve the crimes commited against them, but this does not mitigate FACTS and the FACTS are that those who have set themselves up as the leaders of and spokepeople for the jewish people are Talmudists of the extreme variety and it IS important that people understand the mindset that these criminals use as a justification for their crimes. You don't agree with them, denounce them publickly or appologize for them at every opportunity. Being jewish actually puts you in a greater responsibility about this than I or others who are not called jews, as you are the one being defrauded by this more than I. I KNOW it is a lie and that the teachings of the Talmud ARE NOT the torah or simply a ccommentary. Give me a break. Commentary is one hell of a stretch gettin to where it is ok for adult males to have sex with a three year old female as the hymen will grow back. That is one hell of a commentary all right. From Facts are Facts by Benjamin H. Freedman - The role the Talmud plays in Judaism as it is practiced today is officially stated by the eminent Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer, the Director of Interreligious Activities of The North American Jewish Committee and the President of the Jewish Chaplains Association of the Armed Forces of the United States. In his present capacity as official spokesman for The American Jewish Committee, the self- styled Vatican of Judaism, Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer wrote a most revealing and comprehensive article with the title, What is a Jew which was published as a featured article in Look Magazine in the June 17, 1952 issue. In that article Rabbi Morris N. Kertzer evaluated the significance of the Talmud to Judaism today. In that illuminating treatise on that important subject by the most qualified authority, at the time, Rabbi Morris
Re: [biofuel] (unknown)
If you think Rush Limbaugh is main stream, you need to be adjusted. - Original Message - From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 08:01 Subject: [biofuel] (unknown) I always thought that Rush Limbaugh was mainstream media. You feel that he, and all of the posers that have come after him, are aligned with the left? I'd hate to see where your right is located. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Eric M. Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Woah, I wasn't expecting replies like this. I would like to remind Todd and everyone else that if we watch and believe what we see on the news, we ARE believing what we see and/or read. Don't forget that the mainstream media is generally aligned with the left, and I'm confident that we aren't getting the whole story-unfortunately (and probably still wouldn't get it if they were aligned with the right). What I sent was an article forwarded from another source; it is hard for me believe 100% of what it is saying, but I feel the same way when I watch the news at night. The real problem is that we are not getting the whole story. BUT I am confident about one thing! When I go to the pump and fill up my car (28 mpg diesel) and my motorcycle (42 mpg awesome lookin' Harley Night Train, by the way), I still can't help but feel that I am funding a terrorist organization. In my local paper just the other week, a journalist broke down the [local] cost of gasoline. A whole $.99 per gallon goes to OPEC, or whomever supplied the crude oil. Of course one barrel only produces so much gasoline; the rest is used for other things. One dollar per gallon to an untrustworthy source. Can we trust the Saudis? I think not. My whole point is that until we stop buying crude from the Arab world, until we become self sufficient with our fuel, until we put money into our own pockets, we are at risk of our money being used against us. If the article were totally made up from some maniac as crazy as the terrorists themselves, one can't deny that they [the terrorists] are fanatical and unstable, want the USA and any other non-muslim group out of their countries, and will continue to plan to undo us and kill us with smiles on their faces. When we cut off their supply of money, they will go broke and we will [hopefully] be a little safer. We can all start by getting involved as WE ALL HERE are doing-educating ourselves on how to make our own cleaner [in more ways than one] fuel. Young Master Joseph Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
Matt, You are the first person in my life who accused me of being full of hate. I have been called many things in heated discussions, but never this. I just wonder, who am I supposed to hate? This is not completely true, because there are women in my life that have said you do not love me anymore or even you say this because you hate me etc.. This is not really the same thing as full of hate, but it might be a similar strategy. So what do you want from me, to prove that I do not hate you? Acceptance of Israeli war crimes? Accept Israeli discrimination and appropriations of properties? Acceptance of Israeli targeting and killing? Acceptance of Israeli internment of people, for years and without legal trials? Accept creation and maintenance of permanent refugee ghettos? What is the difference between the German raids in Warsaw and Israeli raids in Gaza? I have also been accused of having an authority complex in fighting mainstream opinion and policies. It is something in this, because I find it difficult to accept things that are not based on merits. I am happy that I do not complicate my life with hate, neither of individuals nor groups of individuals. Hate is a very unproductive and energy wasting activity. I think that it was a lot of things that triggered the WWII holocaust and it was mostly a war of financial interests, in combination with a very large Jewish refugee problem in Germany. I think that the Russian revolution played a very large part in creating this situation and the preferential treatments of Jews in its aftermath. It is difficult to imagine a situation where a common population could do this, but similar things are happening in Africa, as we speak. As a teenager, I heard and participated in many discussions with Jews who experienced the post WWI period in Germany. My family was very active in supporting the German Jewish WWII refugees in Sweden. It is many parallels with the Russian revolution and even similar event of modern times in Asia and Africa. Hakan At 01:46 02/06/2004, you wrote: You are full of hate and I feel very sorry for you. There are fanatic / extremist views in every religion... and it is simply not productive to hate and blame. Right now we seem to be living in a world where the vast majority of modorit thinking people are being oppressed by the will of extremest elements. Perhaps the reason that so many jews react strongly to this sort of hatful rhetoric is that we have learned throughout the ages to remember the tragidies of the past. It is just this sort of hate speach, that has triggered events such as the holocaust. The Jews have been without a home for the last 2000 years... We have been slaughtered and persecuted and blamed for any number of problems (this latest is not the first time people have declared the Jews to be responsible) throughout this time. Perhaps you can understand why Israel represents something that is so powerful and protected in the Jewish psychy. I would not agree with everything that Israel has done (in fact, I tend to disagree with a great many of her policies), however I have to believe in her right to exist. The Jewish religion is not perfect... Yes many people feel strongly especialy that Jews should not marry outside the religion... It is really the only thing that has allowed the religion to survive 5000 years, almost half of it without a home. At the same time, I am married to a non-jew, and my parents love her dearly. You keep reffering to Jewdiasm as a monolithic block, when you yell about text in the book used to train rabbis... I have laugh... There is no book -- I can only say, that you really have a very superficial understanding of the religion, and leave it at that. MY SOLUTION: I know that 99% of the people on this earth, wish for peace and love. I know that there are extremeist elements in every culture and religion that believe their way of thought is the right way... They are the only real enemy and evil in my book. Take a look at yourself Mr. Biobenz... because you fall into that catagory. - Original Message - From: biobenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan Dear Matt. History of the Khazars and what the Talmud says is not hate it is historical FACT. I truly am sympathetic to those who suffer needlessly, be they known as jews or Palestinians or others who do not deserve the crimes commited against them, but this does not mitigate FACTS and the FACTS are that those who have set themselves up as the leaders of and spokepeople for the jewish people are Talmudists of the extreme variety and it IS important that people understand the mindset that these criminals use as a justification for their crimes. You don't agree with them, denounce them publickly or appologize for them at every opportunity. Being jewish actually puts you in a greater
[biofuel] Newbie Questions - Cold Weather
I have a bunch of questions, some of which I'm sure have been answered, but after the fifth or sixth post about how cold it was in insert city here I figured I'd be better served to pick someones brains. I don't currently own a diesel car or anything like that, but I like the idea of 40+ mpg. I like even better, paying 1.00 per gallon. I'm looking at one of the later model Jettas or Passats. My first question is about the cold weather characteristics of BD. I really would like to use bio year round. I really don't want to get stuck somewhere because my fuel gelled up. Here in Michigan I think they average low for winter is in the low 20's F but it does occasionally drop to 0F and below. Could I maybe run B90 for the semi-cold months that get down to the 40's F and upper 30's F? I've also read that adding 20-30% kerosene will help stop gelling. What temperatures does this go down to? Does it affect the performance or will it damage the engine? I might throw an inline heater in there, but that won't much help if the tank is a glob of goo. Thats the important question for now. I'm sure I'll have some questions about the process if I decide to go through with it. Thanks, Randall Sanborn Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Todd, I think I generally outlined why I considered Luc's writing a bunch of lies. I can direct you to the source to find it out first hand - go to any Jewish bookstore or the library, you will find wealth of information there - lots of books. Some people spend their entire life studying them. May be you'll like it and become a Jewish scholar too! Alex Appal Energy wrote: Alex, Rather than calling another a liar under the guise of politeness, why not point out whatever errors exist somewhat more precisely as well as indicating any accuracies. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Interesting news about crude reserves
Hi: I am a lurker in this group, mostly just reading what others have to say. I ran across this yesterday http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38645 Regarding the source of petroleum reserves. John Donahue Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Hi Keith, I never thought it was possible to win ,but it is still important to keep fighting the fight, I posted this sight http://skepdic.com/protocols.html as some substantiation as to the intent and origins of the Protocols. Did you follow the link? This work was created as fiction that was distorted into fact. you state: Silly land grabs and commodity wars? Silly? I guess that's one way of putting it. Indeed ideology is the biggest killer, and it certainly has a very great deal to do with silly land grabs and commodity wars, which is in fact what his thread is all about. /* this was what the thread was about, that has evolved. you state: */We're all entitled to our opinions, and entitled to express them too, but when you're attempting to discredit someone else's view, which he's provided some substantiation for, it needs a little more than just an opinion and a contemptuous slap-aside. *are you saying the Protocols are legitimate? I must admit, I've never heard of Godwin's Law, and I've lost by that standard, but when if not in this case is it appropriate to mention the Nazi's or Hitler? Is is that these things should never be spoken of, or better yet forgotten? You state: *A couple of comments: First, because you personally find it ugly and hateful does not necessarily mean that those were its intentions - you assume that, fail to examine it, fail to establish it, and then lash out on an unsubstantiated basis with a personal attack. *My attack was substantiated by the using the Protocols as a basis for his argument which further my claim that his arguments are ugly and hateful. you state: */* */By the way, Lucifer means bearer of light, it was Satan's name and role before the Fall. *I did not know that, but i believe my point was clear. Keith, did you choose not to post my replies to others yesterday? or was it part of list technical problems yesterday? I still value my right to express my opinion, although you may not agree with me on other issues or the way I express myself, i know you we share at least that common value. -Arthur * Keith Addison wrote: Hello Arthur You lose! I suppose it's no big surprise that a thread such as this should hit Godwin's Law, but it sure didn't take you long. In case you don't know it: Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful. Intentional or not, the thread isn't necessarily over, but you definitely lose. A couple of comments: First, because you personally find it ugly and hateful does not necessarily mean that those were its intentions - you assume that, fail to examine it, fail to establish it, and then lash out on an unsubstantiated basis with a personal attack. From this and several other things, whether or not this applies to Luc, it might well apply to you: Yes , Luc this is personal , people like you spread hatred and kill far more people than silly land grabs and commodity wars ever will. Silly land grabs and commodity wars? Silly? I guess that's one way of putting it. Indeed ideology is the biggest killer, and it certainly has a very great deal to do with silly land grabs and commodity wars, which is in fact what his thread is all about. Now perhaps some sort of my enemy's enemy is my friend type thinking may lead you to conclude that I'm defending Luc. I'm not defending Luc, that's up to him, if he chooses to, but I am attacking you. Whether you agree with it or not, Luc provided some analysis and some references and links, which you dismiss as proven scams and hate literature and liken them to Mein Kampf. It just doesn't work that way here. We're all entitled to our opinions, and entitled to express them too, but when you're attempting to discredit someone else's view, which he's provided some substantiation for, it needs a little more than just an opinion and a contemptuous slap-aside. So either add some substance to it, or don't expect to be treated with any respect. By the way, Lucifer means bearer of light, it was Satan's name and role before the Fall. Keith I am reposting this because I accidently coppied all/most of the previous posting and was added to the end. I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR WASTING BANDWIDTH ON THIS RANT, PLEASE FORGIVE ME Luc, I am Jewish and I am a Zionist. I have tried to stay out of this ugly hateful thread but I find myself swept in because of your twisting of
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - todd
Todd, Although you may not have interest in the minutia of organized religion it is this minutia that composes the standards and values of the particular religion /society. Also I am not sure if my reply to you was posted so here it is again: Todd, Obviously what is ugly and hateful to me are legitimate and acceptable to you. I saw very little discussion of facts in this thread and very much Zionist bashing propaganda. Know your sources of information, question it's authenticity. I do not see my attack as unwarranted, spreading these vile lies is reason for attack. These lies are responsible for the deaths of millions of Jews and other people (Christian Clergy, Gays , Gypsies, Communists..) Yes, little children know better , they never stop questioning. As for my apology , it was directed at the mostly good people on this list who have to suffer this thread. Arthur Appal Energy wrote: Alex, Rather than calling another a liar under the guise of politeness, why not point out whatever errors exist somewhat more precisely as well as indicating any accuracies. For those of us who could almost give one whit less about the minutia of organized religion, whether having experienced their destructive capacities either first or second hand, a little more precision would serve far better than sweeping generalities prepositioned as theological facts. In this manner your comment is every bit as useless as Arthur Sauerhaft's. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith Actually Luc was telling many lies about Jewish theology. Talmud is in fact a written commentaries to Torah. It was created over the centuries by some of the greatest minds. If you go to any bookstore you can buy it there. There is an oral law as well, which was recorded into books many hundreds of years ago, you can buy them in a bookstore. This oral law deals with many very complex issues , and there is nothing of the appalling things Luc was telling about. So much for interesting theological facts. In this respect I also keep thinking of an entity called a great deceiver, the one who is here to maim, kill and destroy. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Arthur, I am puzzled, have looked through the thread and have large difficulties to find any I hate the Jews in it. I find some interesting ideological and theological facts in it, but expressed in a respectful and objective way. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: (unknown)
I don't feel that Rush Limbaugh is mainstream. I do feel that he is a good example of mainstream media. Al Franken is making attempts to bring media back toward the center, but that doesn't seem to be going all that well. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, RICHARD BOGRAD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you think Rush Limbaugh is main stream, you need to be adjusted. - Original Message - From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 08:01 Subject: [biofuel] (unknown) I always thought that Rush Limbaugh was mainstream media. You feel that he, and all of the posers that have come after him, are aligned with the left? I'd hate to see where your right is located. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Eric M. Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Woah, I wasn't expecting replies like this. I would like to remind Todd and everyone else that if we watch and believe what we see on the news, we ARE believing what we see and/or read. Don't forget that the mainstream media is generally aligned with the left, and I'm confident that we aren't getting the whole story-unfortunately (and probably still wouldn't get it if they were aligned with the right). What I sent was an article forwarded from another source; it is hard for me believe 100% of what it is saying, but I feel the same way when I watch the news at night. The real problem is that we are not getting the whole story. BUT I am confident about one thing! When I go to the pump and fill up my car (28 mpg diesel) and my motorcycle (42 mpg awesome lookin' Harley Night Train, by the way), I still can't help but feel that I am funding a terrorist organization. In my local paper just the other week, a journalist broke down the [local] cost of gasoline. A whole $.99 per gallon goes to OPEC, or whomever supplied the crude oil. Of course one barrel only produces so much gasoline; the rest is used for other things. One dollar per gallon to an untrustworthy source. Can we trust the Saudis? I think not. My whole point is that until we stop buying crude from the Arab world, until we become self sufficient with our fuel, until we put money into our own pockets, we are at risk of our money being used against us. If the article were totally made up from some maniac as crazy as the terrorists themselves, one can't deny that they [the terrorists] are fanatical and unstable, want the USA and any other non-muslim group out of their countries, and will continue to plan to undo us and kill us with smiles on their faces. When we cut off their supply of money, they will go broke and we will [hopefully] be a little safer. We can all start by getting involved as WE ALL HERE are doing-educating ourselves on how to make our own cleaner [in more ways than one] fuel. Young Master Joseph Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] test batches
Greetings list, I have a question. If you do a test batch and you get a glob of what looks like hard grease or bad looking soap, wouldn't that mean that you probably used to much lye? Rick M Brownstown, Mi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (unknown)
Or he has been listening to a bunch of Texans. grin Bright Blessings, Kim [who lives in Texas] At 09:05 AM 6/2/2004, you wrote: If you think Rush Limbaugh is main stream, you need to be adjusted. - Original Message - From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 08:01 Subject: [biofuel] (unknown) I always thought that Rush Limbaugh was mainstream media. You feel that he, and all of the posers that have come after him, are aligned with the left? I'd hate to see where your right is located. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Eric M. Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Woah, I wasn't expecting replies like this. I would like to remind Todd and everyone else that if we watch and believe what we see on the news, we ARE believing what we see and/or read. Don't forget that the mainstream media is generally aligned with the left, and I'm confident that we aren't getting the whole story-unfortunately (and probably still wouldn't get it if they were aligned with the right). What I sent was an article forwarded from another source; it is hard for me believe 100% of what it is saying, but I feel the same way when I watch the news at night. The real problem is that we are not getting the whole story. BUT I am confident about one thing! When I go to the pump and fill up my car (28 mpg diesel) and my motorcycle (42 mpg awesome lookin' Harley Night Train, by the way), I still can't help but feel that I am funding a terrorist organization. In my local paper just the other week, a journalist broke down the [local] cost of gasoline. A whole $.99 per gallon goes to OPEC, or whomever supplied the crude oil. Of course one barrel only produces so much gasoline; the rest is used for other things. One dollar per gallon to an untrustworthy source. Can we trust the Saudis? I think not. My whole point is that until we stop buying crude from the Arab world, until we become self sufficient with our fuel, until we put money into our own pockets, we are at risk of our money being used against us. If the article were totally made up from some maniac as crazy as the terrorists themselves, one can't deny that they [the terrorists] are fanatical and unstable, want the USA and any other non-muslim group out of their countries, and will continue to plan to undo us and kill us with smiles on their faces. When we cut off their supply of money, they will go broke and we will [hopefully] be a little safer. We can all start by getting involved as WE ALL HERE are doing-educating ourselves on how to make our own cleaner [in more ways than one] fuel. Young Master Joseph Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What went wrong?
Hi Peggy, Brian and all start with the first process NOT using sulfuric acid. untill you get some good results. go to juorney to forever and start where they say to start . dont skip any steps I am a newbie doing the same thing you are I built a touchless processor and am just starting out... I fortunatly have not made soap yet. DO AS THEY RECOMEND and bio will come I must say I agree with that. Brian says he has good chemistry knowledge so he can afford to skip the newbie stuff, and someone else also insisted on that recently, but I don't think that's the point. Knowledge of chemistry is of course most useful, but I don't think it's the point with this. What it needs is to get a good feel of what's going on, a sense of it, not just theory. The best (only?) way to do that is to start at the beginning. I'm not sure that a microbiologist with excellent knowledge of yeast would necessarily be able to bake an excellent loaf of bread first time, or any better than someone with no knowledge of yeast, or as well as someone with no knowledge of yeast who'd done a lot of cooking. Maybe that special knowledge would only come into play with more experience. It's not just a question of whether or not novices can get it to work, some do. People often ignore what it says at the top of the Foolproof method - the not for novices bit - and do it anyway, and from what I can make out (we get a lot of feedback) mostly they seem to get away with it. But I think that's a pity just the same, because I doubt they'll get the best out of it. The Foolproof method is very flexible, people bend it and twist it every which way in adapting it to their preferences and needs, and I think you just can't do that unless you have a good overall feel of the process as a whole, not just of this one method. But of course people should do whatever they think best, go about it as they want to, it's not up to us to insist that they use the information at our website the way we want them to. It's just advice. But it's good advice. Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: What went wrong?
Hi Brian Kevin, Thanks for the help. I suspect that overly vigorous agitation is a big part of the problem. The top layer of what I have does seem to be very slowly clearing, as you predict. Try heating it. Not direct heat, use hot water, don't agitate the bd again, try to keep it as-is in its layers. Rereading the process on the JTF site, I also notice that they say that if you get less than 100 cc glycerol, you probably have an incomplete reaction. I don't think that I had any more than 60 or 70 cc, which tells me that this was probably another part of the problem. I'm planning to do another test batch this coming weekend, and will just process longer no matter what I think of the color or clarity of what I have after 15 minutes. Since I am brand new to this, I have obviously never seen what the mix is supposed to look like after processing. I am trying to make an educated guess based on a description, and obviously guessed wrong. Thanks again for the reply. The only way that I'll figure this out is with the help of those who have gone before. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Shea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: liter water in a clean 2 liter bottle, decanted the biodiesel on top of it, then shook. Agitated too vigorously too early in the wash stage is probably the problem as this caused emusions. No need to waste your test batch...let it stand for a month in a dark place and you should see it (almost completely) come back. I did the same thing to my earlier test batches by jetting the water into my 5 gal batches with the garden hose and creating foamy stuff..Opps! . -Kevin Well, my first test batch is done, and the end result is less than spectacular. Wondering if anyone has any ideas. I completed the second stage as instructed. 1/2 of my methoxide in, mix for 5 minutes, heat to 130 F, add the remaining methoxide and mix hot until nice golden amber. Not amber, straw yellow - some people have questioned that but I don't agree with them, I've found that to be a good indicator. The less reddish it is the better. This only took about 10 minutes, and I continued mixing for a total of 15. Since the instructions say it will take one and a half to two hours, I think this may be one place that things went wrong, although the appearance when I finished was just as described. You mixed the first stage for two hours, which might have been too long (especially with the extra heat it got), and the second stage for 15 minutes, which was almost certainly too short. This is what I meant in the other message I've just sent, about needing to get a feel for it, and why this isn't a good place to start. If you were more experienced you might have had a better idea of how to translate the mixing instructions for a full-sized batch to the small scale you're using. Maybe it translates direct, maybe not - I don't know how fast your drill stirs it, nor what rate of agitation it gets with that paint stirrer, but, comparatively, neither do you, and that makes it difficult for you. Starting instead with single-stage base and virgin oil, you begin with fewer variables and they're less critical, and it's a logical progression from there. Now you're facing too many variables and you don't have the experience to assess them, and you're more likely to make mistakes anyway because you lack a basis of comparison. I let the mixture settle in an old 2 liter soda bottle for about 6 hours, and it looked exactly like the pictures on the JTF web site. Did you go straight to the wash after six hours? That might not have been long enough. 12 hours or more is better. Clear, golden amber layer on top with dark glycerol on the bottom. I called the test batch a great success and went on to wash my new biodiesel, which is where the problem came up. I put about 1/3 liter water in a clean 2 liter bottle, decanted the biodiesel on top of it, then shook. I probably shook a little vigorously, but with the assumption that the foolproof method would leave me with product which could withstand this type of washing. I'd have stirred it, not very hard, until it was mixed (homogenous), then let it settle. In other words, not in a 2 liter bottle, something with a wider mouth. What I have now is a cloudy, murky yellow layer of nearly one liter followed by a guhky layer looking most like old soap scum and then a small amount of cloudy water. Since the middle layer looks like soap scum, I am assuming that is exactly what it is. I assume also that the upper layer is biodiesel with water still in it, and may clear eventually. The bottom layer is obviously water with the water soluble leftovers from the biodiesel process. My take on the problem is that either I did not heat and stir long enough in stage two, overheated in stage one or agitated too vigorously in the wash stage. I think it is probably a combination of not enough processing in stage two and overzealous agitation
[biofuel] Re: What went wrong?
Todd, Thanks for the input. I am planning to try again this weekend, and do exactly what you suggest, adhere to the instructions more precisely. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian, Any other thoughts? Other than going back and adhering to the instructions more precisely? Nope. Not a one. What you apparently have is an incomplete reaction on the base side, leaving you with a compliment of esters and emulsifiers, the latter being unreacted mono- and di-glycerides. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 7:27 AM Subject: [biofuel] What went wrong? Well, my first test batch is done, and the end result is less than spectacular. Wondering if anyone has any ideas. I completed the second stage as instructed. 1/2 of my methoxide in, mix for 5 minutes, heat to 130 F, add the remaining methoxide and mix hot until nice golden amber. This only took about 10 minutes, and I continued mixing for a total of 15. Since the instructions say it will take one and a half to two hours, I think this may be one place that things went wrong, although the appearance when I finished was just as described. I let the mixture settle in an old 2 liter soda bottle for about 6 hours, and it looked exactly like the pictures on the JTF web site. Clear, golden amber layer on top with dark glycerol on the bottom. I called the test batch a great success and went on to wash my new biodiesel, which is where the problem came up. I put about 1/3 liter water in a clean 2 liter bottle, decanted the biodiesel on top of it, then shook. I probably shook a little vigorously, but with the assumption that the foolproof method would leave me with product which could withstand this type of washing. What I have now is a cloudy, murky yellow layer of nearly one liter followed by a guhky layer looking most like old soap scum and then a small amount of cloudy water. Since the middle layer looks like soap scum, I am assuming that is exactly what it is. I assume also that the upper layer is biodiesel with water still in it, and may clear eventually. The bottom layer is obviously water with the water soluble leftovers from the biodiesel process. My take on the problem is that either I did not heat and stir long enough in stage two, overheated in stage one or agitated too vigorously in the wash stage. I think it is probably a combination of not enough processing in stage two and overzealous agitation in washing that caused the problem. Any other thoughts? Brian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] H2 MJ/kg
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem99/chem99525.htm Hello I Have an hydrogen question Can you please tell me about the energy density, in terms of the energy available per gram or litre. Burning one mole, 2.015 g, of hydrogen in air releases 57.796 kilocalories. Richard E. Barrans Jr., Ph. D. Chemistry Division Argonne National Laboratory This answer seems to give clear objective numbers, so I'm going to try to work with it, and then go back to some less-exact answers I found on other websites. I have 57.796 kilocalories of Energy for .002015 kilograms of mass. What I want to do is translate to MJ/kg, as this is the unit of measurement in which we compared the other alt fuels, for perspective.
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Hakan
Hakan, It does not take a genius to (I am certainly not one) to realize that any mention of the Protocols is blatant expression of I hate the Jews. My personal goal is not to interest you on an academic level but to alert you to real hate mongering. Check out this history of the document http://skepdic.com/protocols.html As faras the personal attack is concerned MAYBE it was a lttle over the top. -Arthur Hakan Falk wrote: Arthur, I am puzzled, have looked through the thread and have large difficulties to find any I hate the Jews in it. I find some interesting ideological and theological facts in it, but expressed in a respectful and objective way. I find no reasons for this nobody likes us postings. They would be more interesting without this below the belt Lucifer things. Hakan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:49:39 +0900, you wrote: Hello Arthur You lose! I suppose it's no big surprise that a thread such as this should hit Godwin's Law, but it sure didn't take you long. [...] Whether you agree with it or not, Luc provided some analysis and some references and links, which you dismiss as proven scams and hate literature and liken them to Mein Kampf. It just doesn't work that way here. We're all entitled to our opinions, and entitled to express them too, but when you're attempting to discredit someone else's view, which he's provided some substantiation for, it needs a little more than just an opinion and a contemptuous slap-aside. So either add some substance to it, or don't expect to be treated with any respect. I've read through a few of Luc's comments and found them worth some consideration. However, I haven't read much, in part because of this, from May 27: Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:31:28 - A Clean Break - Strategy for Securing the Realm. Pay attention to the signatories. http://www.irmep.org/Policy_Briefs/3_27_2003_Clean_Break_or_Dirty_War .html There's still more to it than that, but lest I be labelled a conspiracy nut it shall remain as such :), but then I don't really care who labels me with what so here goes anyway: In conjunction with the above Clean Break document written by the main instigators of the Iraq invasion we pony it up to another much maligned document whose authenticity was declared a forgery by a Swiss court, but then that judgement was overturned as unsubstantiated but it is only the original denigration that is publicised for obvious propaganda value; the document of course is The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion outlining a world control strategy whom some have theorised was actually originally written by none other than Myer Amschtel Rothschild when he was setting up his world banking empire. http://www.usa-the-republic.com/illuminati/zion.html is where to go read it. It would seem odd that a forgery (normally a copy of an original) would hold information that is now common fact in the world we live in. A coincidence? Does the sun rise everyday by chance? As I am not a scholar on this document, but was more offended, as I said, by the manner in which the topic of the document was raised, I'd like to ask if anyone here has any response to this analysis of Luc's. If Luc is to be praised so mightily for raising topics that take some analysis and effort and (arguably) courage in the face of established arguments, then I wonder that there is *no comment* from the all-of-a-sudden too-busy gallery when he brings forth a statement such as the above. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] re: Oil and Israel-Murdoch
Murdoch, Thanks for your suport on some issues and disagreement with others. Just for the record, most Jews don't consider themselves a race, that is an almost ancient way of depicting Jews as physically/spiritually different from the Human race. It is also a major foundation for much Jew hating most recently in the Middle East. Also my remarks refer to Jews who choose to indentify as Jews. respectfully, -Arthur Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: newbie questions
Todd, Thanks for the advice. I did a small test batch and reprocessed as neat oil. I got a separation - a layer on the bottom that was transparent and straw colored - the rest of the liquid remained apple ciderish. It seems confusing to me - is this bottom layer glycerin or something else. I think tonight I will dry and reprocess the entire batch. What is your view on mixing poorer quality biodiesel in low concentration with petro diesel until your production stabalizes? I guess coming again to the issue of what to do with fuel if it is deemed less than perfect. I did the emulsion test you reccomended and the two mixed, but seperated in about 10 minutes. What do you think? Thanks, David George --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, Who says that the batch you have on hand is bad? Biodiesel smells largely like the parent stock. If the oil smells bad, so will the fuel. Smell is subjective and not an indicator of whether the fuel is sufficient or not. As to hazy fuel, either let it set until the micro-droplets of water coalesce and drop/evaporate or heat it to ~120*F. As for determining if the fuel is actually bad? Take one or two liquid ounces of dried sample, mix it with equal parts water in a sealable container, shake violently for a few seconds and observe. If it separates immediately with no emulsion, you're fuel is sufficient. If it emulsifies, you'll need to reprocess the fuel to finish the incomplete reaction. To confirm an incomplete reaction, reprocess a small sample of the dried fuel to see if anymore glycerin drops. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: dlgeorgetn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: [biofuel] newbie questions Hello, I've recently become interested in biodiesel production and have built a processor based on a design from journeytoforever.com. I've run three batches, with the most recent being a 15 gallon run that had some residual motor oil in it from the free 55 gallon drum that I used to pick the oil up in. I processed the oil and got a good split, and even was able to bubble wash the batch, but had two problems. The fuel that was translucent coming out of the processor turned hazy like apple cider after washing, and multiple washes didn't help. It didn't emulsify much, but just got dark and kind of murky. Smells bad too. Hard to describe. Any advice? If this batch is unsalvageable, what do I do with it? The resources on journeytoforever.com have been very good with all other aspects of production, but I just don't know how to dispose of a botched batch. Any advice? Thanks for any advice you may have. David George Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Hi Keith, I never thought it was possible to win ,but it is still important to keep fighting the fight, I posted this sight Subsequently. http://skepdic.com/protocols.html as some substantiation as to the intent and origins of the Protocols. Did you follow the link? This work was created as fiction that was distorted into fact. I am not arguing with you about the intent and origins of the Protocols. As you know. you state: Silly land grabs and commodity wars? Silly? I guess that's one way of putting it. Indeed ideology is the biggest killer, and it certainly has a very great deal to do with silly land grabs and commodity wars, which is in fact what his thread is all about. /* this was what the thread was about, that has evolved. It's still what the thread is about, and you fail to answer the question. you state: */We're all entitled to our opinions, and entitled to express them too, but when you're attempting to discredit someone else's view, which he's provided some substantiation for, it needs a little more than just an opinion and a contemptuous slap-aside. *are you saying the Protocols are legitimate? I'm saying exactly what I said. You provided no substantiation for your dismissal of someone else's views, you were most contemptuous about it, and my requiring more than that from you, in accordance with the way this list operates (as does all normal human discourse) IN NO WAY means or implies that I agree with the person you're disagreeing with. This, it seems, was somewhat prescient, wasn't it? Now perhaps some sort of my enemy's enemy is my friend type thinking may lead you to conclude that I'm defending Luc. I'm not defending Luc, that's up to him, if he chooses to, but I am attacking you. Hmm? I must admit, I've never heard of Godwin's Law, and I've lost by that standard, but when if not in this case is it appropriate to mention the Nazi's or Hitler? I'll tell you that tomorrow, never fear, but right now it's late and I'm going to sleep. Is is that these things should never be spoken of, or better yet forgotten? :-) Perhaps you'd care to tell me just what you've based that assumption on, as there's nothing at all here to support it. You state: *A couple of comments: First, because you personally find it ugly and hateful does not necessarily mean that those were its intentions - you assume that, fail to examine it, fail to establish it, and then lash out on an unsubstantiated basis with a personal attack. *My attack was substantiated by the using the Protocols as a basis for his argument which further my claim that his arguments are ugly and hateful. You have failed to establish that. Your argument is circular. You lose on just about every count by now, not just Godwin's Law. you state: */* */By the way, Lucifer means bearer of light, it was Satan's name and role before the Fall. *I did not know that, but i believe my point was clear. You made yourself clear. Keith, did you choose not to post my replies to others yesterday? or was it part of list technical problems yesterday? I still value my right to express my opinion, although you may not agree with me on other issues or the way I express myself, i know you we share at least that common value. You (only you, though there were many others in the same position) wrote to me about this offlist (rather peremptorily), I replied that the line was down. You have trouble accepting that? You'd sent eight posts, four of which were duplicates, the other four went through as soon as it was possible. I haven't checked if they all arrived, why wouldn't they? You tell Todd you don't know whether your reply to him got through or not so you repost it, but it's there. If I can see it why can't you? By the way, I said we're all entitled to express our opinions, you say it's your right, not quite the same. Just for the record, this is not a public place where people have rights, it's more like a private club, you have to be a member, which gives you privileges, and with the privileges come obligations, if you ignore the obligations you lose the privileges, same as any other club. All opinions are welcome, all behaviour however might not be welcome. Netiquette applies, as do the universal rules of discourse, and there are a few list rules. I don't make the rules but I do apply them. Other than that, and that it's me that has to maintain the thing, I'm just another list member. I do not choose not to post people's replies unless it's for good reason, in which case they'd most certainly be told about it, and why. Keith Addison -Arthur * Keith Addison wrote: Hello Arthur You lose! I suppose it's no big surprise that a thread such as this should hit Godwin's Law, but it sure didn't take you long. In case you don't know it: Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. There is a
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - todd
Todd, Although you may not have interest in the minutia of organized religion it is this minutia that composes the standards and values of the particular religion /society. Also I am not sure if my reply to you was posted so here it is again: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/35131 Todd, Obviously what is ugly and hateful to me are legitimate and acceptable to you. I saw very little discussion of facts in this thread and very much Zionist bashing propaganda. Know your sources of information, question it's authenticity. I do not see my attack as unwarranted, spreading these vile lies is reason for attack. These lies are responsible for the deaths of millions of Jews and other people (Christian Clergy, Gays , Gypsies, Communists..) Yes, little children know better , they never stop questioning. As for my apology , it was directed at the mostly good people on this list who have to suffer this thread. Arthur Appal Energy wrote: Alex, Rather than calling another a liar under the guise of politeness, why not point out whatever errors exist somewhat more precisely as well as indicating any accuracies. For those of us who could almost give one whit less about the minutia of organized religion, whether having experienced their destructive capacities either first or second hand, a little more precision would serve far better than sweeping generalities prepositioned as theological facts. In this manner your comment is every bit as useless as Arthur Sauerhaft's. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith Actually Luc was telling many lies about Jewish theology. Talmud is in fact a written commentaries to Torah. It was created over the centuries by some of the greatest minds. If you go to any bookstore you can buy it there. There is an oral law as well, which was recorded into books many hundreds of years ago, you can buy them in a bookstore. This oral law deals with many very complex issues , and there is nothing of the appalling things Luc was telling about. So much for interesting theological facts. In this respect I also keep thinking of an entity called a great deceiver, the one who is here to maim, kill and destroy. Alex Hakan Falk wrote: Arthur, I am puzzled, have looked through the thread and have large difficulties to find any I hate the Jews in it. I find some interesting ideological and theological facts in it, but expressed in a respectful and objective way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Newbie Questions - Cold Weather
Hi Randall This might help: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html Biodiesel in winter Best Keith I have a bunch of questions, some of which I'm sure have been answered, but after the fifth or sixth post about how cold it was in insert city here I figured I'd be better served to pick someones brains. I don't currently own a diesel car or anything like that, but I like the idea of 40+ mpg. I like even better, paying 1.00 per gallon. I'm looking at one of the later model Jettas or Passats. My first question is about the cold weather characteristics of BD. I really would like to use bio year round. I really don't want to get stuck somewhere because my fuel gelled up. Here in Michigan I think they average low for winter is in the low 20's F but it does occasionally drop to 0F and below. Could I maybe run B90 for the semi-cold months that get down to the 40's F and upper 30's F? I've also read that adding 20-30% kerosene will help stop gelling. What temperatures does this go down to? Does it affect the performance or will it damage the engine? I might throw an inline heater in there, but that won't much help if the tank is a glob of goo. Thats the important question for now. I'm sure I'll have some questions about the process if I decide to go through with it. Thanks, Randall Sanborn Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Hello MM Please see below. On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:49:39 +0900, you wrote: Hello Arthur You lose! I suppose it's no big surprise that a thread such as this should hit Godwin's Law, but it sure didn't take you long. [...] Whether you agree with it or not, Luc provided some analysis and some references and links, which you dismiss as proven scams and hate literature and liken them to Mein Kampf. It just doesn't work that way here. We're all entitled to our opinions, and entitled to express them too, but when you're attempting to discredit someone else's view, which he's provided some substantiation for, it needs a little more than just an opinion and a contemptuous slap-aside. So either add some substance to it, or don't expect to be treated with any respect. I've read through a few of Luc's comments and found them worth some consideration. However, I haven't read much, in part because of this, from May 27: Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:31:28 - A Clean Break - Strategy for Securing the Realm. Pay attention to the signatories. http://www.irmep.org/Policy_Briefs/3_27_2003_Clean_Break_or_Dirty_War .html There's still more to it than that, but lest I be labelled a conspiracy nut it shall remain as such :), but then I don't really care who labels me with what so here goes anyway: In conjunction with the above Clean Break document written by the main instigators of the Iraq invasion we pony it up to another much maligned document whose authenticity was declared a forgery by a Swiss court, but then that judgement was overturned as unsubstantiated but it is only the original denigration that is publicised for obvious propaganda value; the document of course is The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion outlining a world control strategy whom some have theorised was actually originally written by none other than Myer Amschtel Rothschild when he was setting up his world banking empire. http://www.usa-the-republic.com/illuminati/zion.html is where to go read it. It would seem odd that a forgery (normally a copy of an original) would hold information that is now common fact in the world we live in. A coincidence? Does the sun rise everyday by chance? As I am not a scholar on this document, but was more offended, as I said, by the manner in which the topic of the document was raised, I'd like to ask if anyone here has any response to this analysis of Luc's. If Luc is to be praised so mightily for raising topics that take some analysis and effort and (arguably) courage in the face of established arguments, then I wonder that there is *no comment* from the all-of-a-sudden too-busy gallery when he brings forth a statement such as the above. I've no choice but to work with the two quotes you've provided, one of them from me, in which I did not as you allege praise Luc mightily nor even unmightily for anything, nor have I yet expressed any opinion on the substance of any of his posts. I haven't noticed anyone praising Luc for raising these topics. I fail to see how you can extract this from my quote above, or from anything I've said about it. My point was clear, Luc provided some substantiation for his views, Arthur provided no substantiation at all for his highly contemptuous dismissal of them, and that doesn't fly here, whether it's in discussing Judaism and Zionism or whether unwashed biodiesel can damage your motor. Please explain what you mean. established arguments, then I wonder that there is *no comment* from the all-of-a-sudden too-busy gallery when he brings forth a statement such as the above. What nonsense! Aren't you doing rather the same thing? Keith MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Alex, I believe that you are in error as to what you think you did in your post. What I suggested was that the least you could do is post something more than generalities and your opinion, especially if your attempt is to support the claim of liar. I suppose that I was wrong. You managed to do even less than that. As for theological scholarship of all things Jewish? No thank you. I have virtually no use for organized religion of any flavour, nor their zealots or fringists. Hope and commonality, the two most distinguished aspects of any religion, can be found in numerous other less devisive human endeavors. And spirituality is far more abundant outside synagogue, mosque or church walls than within. God, whomever He or She may be, is surely big enough to sort everything out without human doctrines, their interpretations, application of whips or the copping (adoption) of attitudes. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith Todd, I think I generally outlined why I considered Luc's writing a bunch of lies. I can direct you to the source to find it out first hand - go to any Jewish bookstore or the library, you will find wealth of information there - lots of books. Some people spend their entire life studying them. May be you'll like it and become a Jewish scholar too! Alex Appal Energy wrote: Alex, Rather than calling another a liar under the guise of politeness, why not point out whatever errors exist somewhat more precisely as well as indicating any accuracies. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
I've no choice but to work with the two quotes you've provided, one of them from me, in which I did not as you allege praise Luc mightily nor even unmightily for anything, nor have I yet expressed any opinion on the substance of any of his posts. I haven't noticed anyone praising Luc for raising these topics. I fail to see how you can extract this from my quote above, or from anything I've said about it. My point was clear, Luc provided some substantiation for his views, Arthur provided no substantiation at all for his highly contemptuous dismissal of them, and that doesn't fly here, whether it's in discussing Judaism and Zionism or whether unwashed biodiesel can damage your motor. Please explain what you mean. What I mean is that generally you seem glad to have the topic raised, and that generally some of Luc's comments points seem to be agreed-with, by yourself and-or by Todd. If I have erroneously spoken for you then I apologize. Maybe I should have said that he is being strongly supported at least in his right to continue the topic. However, enough time and effort seems to be put forth by you in responding to Luc's detractors that I was surprised by the lack of any response to his introduction into the conversation of what I take to be stands-out-like-a-sore-thumb low-level anti-semitic drivel. His substantiation included this low-level drivel. Maybe it's not drivel. Maybe I'm mistaken and it's genius. established arguments, then I wonder that there is *no comment* from the all-of-a-sudden too-busy gallery when he brings forth a statement such as the above. What nonsense! Aren't you doing rather the same thing? You don't owe me or anyone else your time, and likewise, I certainly do not regard myself as owing anyone in this group a single second of my time, with the possible exception that there is some implicit agreement to make an effort to follow up sometimes in a mutual conversation, and further there are generally accepted and I think valuable principles of politesse, civility, friendliness and I guess dialectic standards by which I mean we try to hold ourselves to some sort of standard for good thinking. It seemed to me a little bizarre that Luc made this statement and got little or no response, other than excoriation of those who were driven to the point of being maddened by him. While being maddened is not an excuse for, in some areas, poor argumentation, I did not think it inappropriate to call attention to what I thought was a very problematic statement on Luc's part. I think that I should not have implied that it's a matter of you or anyone else owing time to devote to that comment. Since I am not that willing to study the matter, and figure out whether the Protocols, and the way the topic was introduced, are properly dismissed by me as a clear symptom of nonsense, I think I was trying to get away with seeing if someone could please respond on that point. Since you apparently think my effort to get away with that has been nonsense, then I won't try further. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Murdoch, What I mean is that generally you seem glad to have the topic raised, and that generally some of Luc's comments points seem to be agreed-with, by yourself and-or by Todd. That's incorrect. What I did state and should have been inferred by anyone with eyes not clouded with fear, hate or rage was that the ensuing personal assaults were uncalled for. As a result of such expression, those who were so wantonly careless in their intent would choose to paint anyone who disagrees with their obnoxious behavior as being for or against a person or any practice that was mentioned.or alluded to. That's ignorance of a rather high order (or disorder if you like), upon which no one should have to expend the light of day. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith I've no choice but to work with the two quotes you've provided, one of them from me, in which I did not as you allege praise Luc mightily nor even unmightily for anything, nor have I yet expressed any opinion on the substance of any of his posts. I haven't noticed anyone praising Luc for raising these topics. I fail to see how you can extract this from my quote above, or from anything I've said about it. My point was clear, Luc provided some substantiation for his views, Arthur provided no substantiation at all for his highly contemptuous dismissal of them, and that doesn't fly here, whether it's in discussing Judaism and Zionism or whether unwashed biodiesel can damage your motor. Please explain what you mean. What I mean is that generally you seem glad to have the topic raised, and that generally some of Luc's comments points seem to be agreed-with, by yourself and-or by Todd. If I have erroneously spoken for you then I apologize. Maybe I should have said that he is being strongly supported at least in his right to continue the topic. However, enough time and effort seems to be put forth by you in responding to Luc's detractors that I was surprised by the lack of any response to his introduction into the conversation of what I take to be stands-out-like-a-sore-thumb low-level anti-semitic drivel. His substantiation included this low-level drivel. Maybe it's not drivel. Maybe I'm mistaken and it's genius. established arguments, then I wonder that there is *no comment* from the all-of-a-sudden too-busy gallery when he brings forth a statement such as the above. What nonsense! Aren't you doing rather the same thing? You don't owe me or anyone else your time, and likewise, I certainly do not regard myself as owing anyone in this group a single second of my time, with the possible exception that there is some implicit agreement to make an effort to follow up sometimes in a mutual conversation, and further there are generally accepted and I think valuable principles of politesse, civility, friendliness and I guess dialectic standards by which I mean we try to hold ourselves to some sort of standard for good thinking. It seemed to me a little bizarre that Luc made this statement and got little or no response, other than excoriation of those who were driven to the point of being maddened by him. While being maddened is not an excuse for, in some areas, poor argumentation, I did not think it inappropriate to call attention to what I thought was a very problematic statement on Luc's part. I think that I should not have implied that it's a matter of you or anyone else owing time to devote to that comment. Since I am not that willing to study the matter, and figure out whether the Protocols, and the way the topic was introduced, are properly dismissed by me as a clear symptom of nonsense, I think I was trying to get away with seeing if someone could please respond on that point. Since you apparently think my effort to get away with that has been nonsense, then I won't try further. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *
Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Hallo MM, The problem we have here is twofold. First, just as the phrase national security hides a lot of sins (so to speak), the phrase anti-semite intimidates and silences a lot of tongues and pens. This is why there is *no comment* from the all-of-a-sudden too-busy gallery when he brings forth a statement such as the above. It is all too common for anyone, particularly someone with a name such as mine, who voices any criticism of Israel regardless of whether the criticism is deserved or not to be smeared and marginalized as an anti-semite, bigot, nazi, whatever. If a Jew happens to be the one doing the criticism then they are promptly labelled a self-hating Jew. This happens not only even, but particularly if the criticism is deserved. People have lost their livlihoods by saying the wrong thing even if the wrong thing happened to be true. Second, the wrong questions are being asked and debated. People have been debating whether this document is a forgery or not. That is, in this particular case, irrelevant. What should be questioned is the content of the thing. Is what is being spelled out in the document actually coming to pass and if not then it can be ignored but if these things are actually transpiring then it behooves us to discover who is doing these things. The Protocols claim it is the Jews doing this. Fine. Then that should be demonstrable. If it is not then the people responsible for these acts should be traced down, documented and exposed for what they are. As Gandalf said, All that is gold does not glitter, not all those that wander are lost. As for me...I would rather spend my time building bridges rather than fences. I do not like being wrong and appreciate it when my mistakes are pointed out to me that I may bring myself in line with what is right. I appreciate candor and frankness and plain speech. I believe if you are innocent don't plead guilty and if you are guilty stand up andtakeyourpunishment. I also believe in self discipline/restraint/responsibility and reason. My greatest belief is in the power of loving kindness and loving service to ones fellows. Now for the plain speech. Naziism is the mirror image of Judaism as is the SS of Zionism. On the one hand we have the master race and on the other the chosen people of God. Germany had Gro§deutschland-greater Germany and Israel has eretz Israel-greater Israel. Germany occupied a good portion of Europe and Israel occupies an area 10 times greater that it was at its largest in biblical times.Germany had its concentration camps and Israel has Gaza and the West Bank of the Jordan. Germany claimed to have a divine right as the master race to occupy other countries for Lebensraum (living room) but failed to provide the divine deed. Israel claims the divine right to occupy others land because this land had been given to them by God but they also have failed to produce the divine deed. If Germans were attacked there were reprisals. If Israelis are attacked there are reprisals. The list of mirrored traits goes on and on. The Israelis are neither better nor worse than the Nazis.Numbers and scope make no difference. If it did then the Chinese who slaughtered 33.5 million would win making the Nazis and Israelis both look like pikers. Human life is human life and we cannot afford to say, Well, we only killed x number and the other side killed number. Doesn't work that way. Evil is evil. Perhaps they only killed x instead of because they didn't get the chance. They still did these evil things. The problem here is that when you get large bunches of folks together they often wind up getting stupid. They tend to concentrate on what their differences are rather than their similarities. They forget that their enemies are more than likely just the same as them and in the end just people. We need things but they are just greedy. Up go the fences and defenses. But if you take one person from one side and another from another side and sit them in the kitchen over some food and just get talking you generally find, after the initial horse manure has been shoveled off, that they want the same things. They want peace and happiness, decent food and housing and educations. They don't want to control anyone or be controlled. They just want to live and raise their families in peace. They want to be reasonable human beings. It is when the herd instinct and greed come into play that things get sticky. And we humans are just wierd enough to turn on our own if we can't find an enemy on the outside. We are a curious species. There is hope however. People working with each other. Minds and hearts changing one at a time. Sacred cows and magic words being thrown by the wayside. Love and reason will have
Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel - Keith
Very good Gustl, Not much I want to add, thinking about it, in fact nothing. It is also my dream that people get together and do something more productive than killing each other in the name of god (the same one) and only because of writings that we do not know the origin, motives or background of. Hakan At 22:47 02/06/2004, you wrote: Hallo MM, The problem we have here is twofold. First, just as the phrase national security hides a lot of sins (so to speak), the phrase anti-semite intimidates and silences a lot of tongues and pens. This is why there is *no comment* from the all-of-a-sudden too-busy gallery when he brings forth a statement such as the above. It is all too common for anyone, particularly someone with a name such as mine, who voices any criticism of Israel regardless of whether the criticism is deserved or not to be smeared and marginalized as an anti-semite, bigot, nazi, whatever. If a Jew happens to be the one doing the criticism then they are promptly labelled a self-hating Jew. This happens not only even, but particularly if the criticism is deserved. People have lost their livlihoods by saying the wrong thing even if the wrong thing happened to be true. Second, the wrong questions are being asked and debated. People have been debating whether this document is a forgery or not. That is, in this particular case, irrelevant. What should be questioned is the content of the thing. Is what is being spelled out in the document actually coming to pass and if not then it can be ignored but if these things are actually transpiring then it behooves us to discover who is doing these things. The Protocols claim it is the Jews doing this. Fine. Then that should be demonstrable. If it is not then the people responsible for these acts should be traced down, documented and exposed for what they are. As Gandalf said, All that is gold does not glitter, not all those that wander are lost. As for me...I would rather spend my time building bridges rather than fences. I do not like being wrong and appreciate it when my mistakes are pointed out to me that I may bring myself in line with what is right. I appreciate candor and frankness and plain speech. I believe if you are innocent don't plead guilty and if you are guilty stand up andtakeyourpunishment. I also believe in self discipline/restraint/responsibility and reason. My greatest belief is in the power of loving kindness and loving service to ones fellows. Now for the plain speech. Naziism is the mirror image of Judaism as is the SS of Zionism. On the one hand we have the master race and on the other the chosen people of God. Germany had Gro§deutschland-greater Germany and Israel has eretz Israel-greater Israel. Germany occupied a good portion of Europe and Israel occupies an area 10 times greater that it was at its largest in biblical times.Germany had its concentration camps and Israel has Gaza and the West Bank of the Jordan. Germany claimed to have a divine right as the master race to occupy other countries for Lebensraum (living room) but failed to provide the divine deed. Israel claims the divine right to occupy others land because this land had been given to them by God but they also have failed to produce the divine deed. If Germans were attacked there were reprisals. If Israelis are attacked there are reprisals. The list of mirrored traits goes on and on. The Israelis are neither better nor worse than the Nazis.Numbers and scope make no difference. If it did then the Chinese who slaughtered 33.5 million would win making the Nazis and Israelis both look like pikers. Human life is human life and we cannot afford to say, Well, we only killed x number and the other side killed number. Doesn't work that way. Evil is evil. Perhaps they only killed x instead of because they didn't get the chance. They still did these evil things. The problem here is that when you get large bunches of folks together they often wind up getting stupid. They tend to concentrate on what their differences are rather than their similarities. They forget that their enemies are more than likely just the same as them and in the end just people. We need things but they are just greedy. Up go the fences and defenses. But if you take one person from one side and another from another side and sit them in the kitchen over some food and just get talking you generally find, after the initial horse manure has been shoveled off, that they want the same things. They want peace and happiness, decent food and housing and educations. They don't want to control anyone or be controlled. They just want to live and raise their families in peace. They want to be reasonable human beings. It is when the herd instinct and greed come into play that
